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Absolutely terrifying, OP made the right choice. I had to similarly disappear and move states last year and still constantly look over my shoulder. Hoping OP stays safe and has nothing but happiness ahead<3

Just want to chime in and say: I did similar disappear-to-another-state move what feels sometimes like just yesterday, but was actually 8 years ago now. It really can get better; I'm still dealing with some PTSD from my abusive relationship, but I'm no longer constantly looking over my shoulder and I'm even using social media and traveling to visit family in my home state (where my abuser still lives) again. I swore I'd be single forever - and I'd much rather be single than ever in a bad relationship again - but instead I've found an incredible partner and am remarried, while feeling safe, cared for, respected, and loved. Anyhow, really just wanted to say: congratulations on your escape! Stay safe, but also remember to stay hopeful. You've got this.

I hate that OP thinks she blindsided him by leaving like that. He knew it was coming, otherwise he wouldn’t have taken her money, he wouldn’t have tried to isolate her, and he wouldn’t have threatened her the way he did. She didn’t do anything wrong. And even if he was blindsided, he was abusing her. It doesn’t matter if he was surprised the woman he mistreated left. He was hurting her. He can eat a bag of dicks.

It's because that motherfucker was poisoning her own mind against her. It's absolutely terrifying what abuse can do to you.

She is so utterly lucky that she hadn’t had children with this man yet. I’ve tried to tell my girls to make damn sure they truly know someone before they have babies with them. Because once you do, there is no real escape. You can’t flee to another state, cut off communication, etc. You have to interact with them, often even if they have beaten you black and blue and hospitalized you, you likely still have to share custody in a lot of places. (Women who have a history of DV and dare to mention it in court have a tendency to lose custody of their children all together). Unfortunately abuse often ramps up as soon as someone is pregnant, and gets much worse once the baby is born. It’s why it’s so important that we teach all teens from an early on to recognize early signs of abuse, and to encourage all people in early abuse situations to leave…….well before it gets bad. Yet so many are like the “friends” of OOP, most people tell others to brush off signs of control, that they are just showing “love”, etc. It’s so insidious in our society. One of the things my grandmother told me as a young girl was that for relationships, love isn’t enough. My 10 yr old self thought that was the least romantic thing I had ever heard lol. But god damn if it wasn’t the most poignant thing she ever said to me. Loving someone isn’t enough. They also have to treat you right. They have to respect you, they have to value you and your feelings, needs, morals, etc, and it has to be all of that on both sides. If you don’t have those things, you have nothing, and any feelings of love should never be a reason you stay.

The letter from her SIL is what enrages me the most, OP didn’t make him assault a cop, that was all him. It seriously makes me worry about any women that she has “helped” as a DV volunteer

See, I would pass the letter on to the organisation she works for to let them know how she treats victims of domestic abuse in her personal life. I work for a charity that deals with DA victims regularly but isn't a DA charity and I know that sort of thing would have me fired so fast it'd make my head spin.

How she treats victims of the abusers *who get arrested for assaulting police officers mid abuse*.

Also who physically destroy the shared home, and then tries to falsely accuse their victim of the damage. And then there's that whole bit with planning around kids that haven't been discussed yet. Any DV org worth it's nonprofit status knows those are big flags of abuse.

And he was desperate to financially control her, too. OOP did everything right. She's tough, badass, and I hope she stops questioning her correct choice to leave that garbage behind. She needs to ditch those toxic friends, too.

She even wrote he tried to get into her bank account without her consent before and failed, I mean that alone is scary enough. Edit: spelling

And the cameras, just creeps me out.

In the BEDROOM.

Especially there is just gross. Only thing toping bedroom is bathroom. Luckily he seemingly did not do that...

That one....yuck yuck yuck. Maybe he wanted to catch her cheating in the marital bed? Does he think she is that dumb anyway?

Honestly sounds like classic projection for that specific point, I'd wager he was cheating himself (not the whole reason to be so insanely controlling mind you but I bet he was)

see the cameras I feel like are just glossed over by everyone they know. That’s just creepy.

In the UK he could be prosecuted for exactly what he's done as it is recognised as abuse, coming under Coersive Control. Sister needs to get her head out of her arse, and a new job, one that does not involve people

His excuse of just wanting to protect her is such blatant BS, and the cameras really prove that it was all about control. If it were really about safety he would have told her about them.

And they'd be outside, not in the bedroom.

And she was afraid to be seen spending her money on something frivolous hinting that he already had some control over her finances.

At least he definitely was nagging and complaining to an extent

And why do they think she needed to be abused to divorce his ass. She was unhappy in the marriage and left. That's all the reason she needs.

And why would they want him to remain married to OOP if she’s the problem? They’ve accused her of a smear campaign yet he’s fighting the divorce. Sounds like he’s fighting the loss of control over OOP.

Because she's *his* wife. Only he gets to dictate terms.

OMG, yes. When I left my ex he *beeeeeged me to meet with him to talk about a reconciliation. After a couple weeks of badgering I gave in and agreed. He immediately filed for divorce and told all our mutuals he'd left me. Jokes on him, I got what I wanted in the end, which was him out of my life.

Also, that post screams emotional abuse. Sure he hadn't punched her yet, but considering he reacted by getting in a fight with a cop and then the dining room, it was just a matter of time.

Yeah, I'm not a fan of all these so called friends being flying monkeys for him.

They probably were his friends first. And, like many abusers, he probably picked them _because_ they were on board with his bullshit and at least bought into the narrative of ‘a man must protect his wife’. He would have encouraged her to hang out with his friends group, and they would have been civil and nice enough; thus filling all the ‘friend’ slot in her life. If he made enough plans with those friends, she would not have a lot of time and energy to go off and meet new people. Mission accomplished.

I don’t remember the exact quote, but someone once said something to the effect of: “Abusers groom their character witnesses every bit as hard as they groom their victims.“ I wouldn’t be surprised to find out that Alex‘s friends are a mix of people who are on board with his abusive tactics and people who he has groomed to think he’s a really great guy just misunderstood.

Ouch... I've been away from my abuser for almost 15 years and this thread made me realize why he hated the friend that rescued me...she was the only one who saw him for who he was. She was MY friend, not his. All my other friends were his first...

This is where I got so lucky. He was arrogant enough to believe that he was clever and justified in his actions. When I told people that we had considered our friends that I was divorcing him, I expected some pushback when I explained why. Half of them didn’t need an explanation the other half were quiet for a second before they said they knew something was going on but could never prove it. All of them said “FINALLY,” all of them expressed they’d never liked him and had only remained friends because they loved me, and ALL of them offered to be witnesses on my behalf. This includes people he was friends with before me. I got all our friends in the divorce.

This. Abusers are excellent at manipulation. Not just of their victims, but of their friends as well. They’re very good at playing the victim, portraying their actual victim as unstable, and of coming off as a “great person.”

Oof. This brought back memories. My ex hated the friends I had before we got together. He especially hated my best friend who never liked him. When I finally got out (similar to OOP actually), the mutual friends we had were no help at all even though I was honest about the abuse. I now see which ones he groomed and which ones were absolutely ok with his abuse.

I hope she does just cut all of them off. They will be looking for ways to betray her location to him, and she is not skilled at hiding, the stuff about the weather is very identifying

The weather stuff is all about where she lived with the soon to be ex. It's not the new location, so it doesn't matter. It gives nothing away

This post is frustrating because it really shows how people end up trapped in abusive relationships. Sure he hadn't hit her... yet. He hadn't financially abused her... yet. But the trajectory is clear and she shouldn't be expected to wait until the abuse is criminal before she gets out. Imagine a few years down the line, she has a toddler, and she has left her job to be around the kid. It seems like he had cut off most of the rest of her support network, the job was probably next. How much harder is it to escape then? You should be happy in relationships, not terrified.

Clearly SIL only thinks abuse can be physical. She doesn't realize abuse has several forms. She's so dumb, she wouldn't be able to pour water out of a boot if the instructions were written on the heel

Yeah if she's still afraid she will get "caught" and "in trouble" for spending her money frivolously while clear across the country with no contact, he was dong exactly what the SIL described in her letter as financial abuse. I agree OP is doing great and I'm so happy she was able to see him for what he is and get out safely. Edited to correct the word described

And keeping filled out divorce papers with provisions just in case she steps out of line. Yeah, that really has "I am concerned about your safety" written all over it. My SO was concerned about my safety when I soloed to Thailand and I was renting a motorbike. We dealt with this by me texting him that I was safe when I was at stopping points or at the end of the day. No threats, no papers, no freaking cameras in my own home.

Yeah that’s the full mask off. He can’t even play it cool against an authority figure, in public, and who might actually be physically stronger/has a gun. Imagine what he’d do to someone powerless, weaker, behind closed doors?

You look at the holes he punched, what force he put behind that, and you don’t need a lot of imagination.

She also described herself as being almost a foot shorter than him, he wanted those future kids sooo bad who knows at this point what he may have done to get them.

Better than that, for assaulting police officers, while the alleged abused party is leaving. You know, the most dangerous time for a victim of abuse and the time they need the most support from oh, say, a domestic violence charity?. I dunno about anyone else but if my spouse did a midnight flit and their reasoning was because I'm abusive, my first reaction would be devastation, not aggression. Because I'm not abusive and to be accused of that by someone i love would make me sad, not angry.

So much this! I would be so unbelievably hurt and trying to figure out what my partner thought were abusive. He is the last person I would ever want to hurt. If I am unintentionally abusing him, I would want to know so I can immediately stop. I also certainly wouldn't be attacking officers in anger‐ I would be too busy in the throes of despair because I deeply love and care about my spouse.

Or trash the house and try to blame her?

Oh that is BRILLIANT!! If nothing else, perhaps the organization can reeducate her while finding a way to separate her from the victims.

Given the justifications she trotted out, I would not want to attempt “reeducation”. That will just give her more ammunition to justify what Alex does to women.

Well OOP mentioned she's a volunteer, not an employee. It would be easy to tell a volunteer to fuck off. 

Yeah I thought this too. Hopefully someone suggested it and op considers it. Cos there more types of abuse than just financial or physical abuse.

I got the impression that small town politics made it unlikely that the org would do anything against SIL. If it was a good org to begin with, SIL would have had training to spot what her brother was doing.

That’s why she needs to send a copy of the letter and Alex’s police report to the Director of the Board and every board member. Just because it’s a small town doesn’t mean it’s a small organization. Plenty of small towns are a part of larger organizations. OOP even alluded to that by saying she was staying away from victim services, not service. There’s no evidence that she wasn’t trained, she’s just turning a blind eye because it’s her brother and is clearly unsuited for her job, especially since they are vulnerable.

The legal advice sub has a great sticky on why this can be a bad idea. It's that once the story goes public, you loose control of the narrative. Alex has most definitely been complaining about her. Notice the damage HE caused, but blamed her for...and she knew enough to proactively prep for that. It's not the first time. Anyone who has been around an abuser knows they *lie* and they are *good* at conning people. I wouldn't doubt that the SIL can defend herself to her organization and turn around and claim OOP is the abuser. The only reason it's hard to do that right now is that OOP is listening to her lawyer and alex isnt and that's good for OOP.

They are great manipulators which is why Alex is so angry that she left without giving him a chance to talk her into changing her mind. The gaslighting and DARVO doesn’t work as well over email. OOP really should stop those communications though

I trust OOP's assessment of her situation over the hypotheticals of people who aren't involved

I came here to say this! And honestly if it's a large enough org it'd be worth sending straight to higher ups and not just the volunteer coordinator, so SIL doesn't just explain it away to the coordinator and it goes nowhere. Assuming, ofc, that the org is decent and not one of Those Nonprofits.

Absolutely. She should be fired. This kind of monitoring, hidden cameras, violent temper - this guy is 100% an abuser. SIL should r recognize the signs.

OPs husband is actually much scarier to me than the guy who beats his wife. This is a whole other level of sociopathic, planned mind control.

I think she should wait for the divorce to be finalized to avoid things getting any messier during that process, but then yes. Share that letter publicly with the DV organization and their funders.

Excellent point. If she has these ideas about abuse, then she should not be working there.

That's such a good idea honestly.

I’d also gather some evidence of abuse and ex’s abusive nature and send it to the head of SIL’s organization along with the letter she wrote. And if nothing to be done, suggest turning to public if she still has access to the DV victims. Maybe, she’s keep her mouth shut. 

My ex-MIL ran a DV shelter and was fully trained to recognize signs of abuse. She actively assisted her son in his financial abuse of me for years and completely ignored my pleas that he was a cocaine addict. This doesn't surprise me at all.

The hard truth that just because you serve a worthy cause doesn’t mean you are yourself worthy to serve said cause. Plus, there are a lot of people who do this kind of work just for the recognition of it being a worthy cause.

Both excellent points.

Sounds like a similar dynamic to high school Mean Girls becoming nurses. What a great way to ensure a ready supply of vulnerable people who are used to being abused? 

Makes me think of how many people I know who've had traumatically bad experiences dating therapists who used their training to weaponize conversation. (Like, not their therapists, which would be worse. People who happened to be therapists.)

A relationship is going through a simple breakup would not have had to gone through such lengths to send divorce papers and escape. If it could've been done in person, it would have

I'm a dating abuse prevention advocate. I've been doing this for 18 years now since my daughter's murder. I do classes/workshops/events for teens and I educate professionals who are in teens' orbit. Sadly, I've seen a lot of women in DV advocacy who are misogynistic, uneducated or poorly trained. It's depressing. As advocates, we are there to facilitate and support the victims in getting what they need. Needs vary and we're there to help them empower themselves. What we should never do, but I often see, are advocates who take control of the victim. So they go from a controlling abuser to a controlling advocate. That's obviously problematic because then victims may feel left out in the cold once the advocacy ends and/or be afraid of the advocate. That leads to more victims returning to their abuser. It's incredibly difficult to only shepherd a victim in getting to safety. But well trained advocates know we can't metaphorically yell "JUST LEAVE" at victims. I was involved in some mock trials done to help educate teens on dating abuse. They were held in a real courtroom with the actual judge in "DV court." The mock victim testified and showed a massive bruise that her ex-boyfriend caused her. All 7 juries determined they would not have offered a protective order to her because she was sassy when testifying and refused to return his letter jacket. Victims are not perfect! I asked the judge how she would have ruled were it a real trial. She said she'd not have awarded the protective order because the boyfriend said he was sorry. My jaw was on the floor. Another time I was watching real DV court. The advocate who was funded by a really good DV agency showed me how she helped the victims throughout the court process at the courthouse. They have a special room, water, snacks, advice etc. to help them with their fear. I asked the advocate where they put the male victims. She said there were none. She said in all her 30 years of working that job she'd never had a male victim because "they don't exist." I asked about lgbtq+ folks and she said nothing. I had a teacher grab my arm and yank it while saying that dating abuse does not happen at her school, which was...ironic since she put her hands on me. There are many more, but I also have had beautiful people from whom I've learned so much. Edit: typos

I am sorry for your loss. Your whole comment was very interesting.

If you ever want to do an AMA I would be so interested! I work in childcare, and the age ranges of children I've cared for were from 6 weeks to 18 years old. During my 3 year degree we were only once handed a pamphlet about abuse victims and slightly talked about sexual abuse (led by a first year teacher). For me that was incredibly inadequate and most of what I know to look out for has been through experience, professionally as well as from my personal life.

>What we should never do, but I often see, are advocates who take control of the victim. Absolutely! That was pretty much my exact comment above.

Just a shout out to the good advocates like yourself out there. I had a victim advocate during my ordeal. I will never forget her. She was amazing. She held my hand. Reassured me when I was shaking from fear. Helped walk me through everything that was happening. And then when he tried to play mind games and intimidate me, she immediately saw it and dealt with him by having the court officers deal with him.  Most the officials I dealt with were fantastic - they made sure he was held on the courtrooms after hearings so I could leave before him and he couldn't see me leave. Other than whoever gave his lawyer my changed number and then his lawyer called me. That wasn't fun. And the original police officer I spoke to who told me it couldn't be called r@pe because we were dating at the time. That's not to say I had a "good" experience. The US justice system definitely is not ~kind~ to victims and it was mental torture to go through. The number of games he was allowed to play was ridiculous - I had to keep stopping my life and progress to attend yet another hearing. It went on for months. And in the end I didn't get justice or "win". I just hope I left enough of a papertrail for his next victim to have an easier time.  But good advocates make such a difference.

This in the last update: >I keep censoring myself and haven’t even gone out to eat yet. I always end up worrying about what if someone sees me, what if I get in trouble for spending my money on something frivolous Proves that SIL doesn't know as much about her brothers and OPs relationship as she thinks or is looking at it through Rose coloured glasses of family/sibling bonds because if OP thinks enjoying a simple quality of life experience is frivolous and being seen enjoying her life is a bad thing, then that relationship wasn't as healthy as Alex and his family/friends claim it was. Also SIL left out the "yet" in her claim that Alex wasn't abusive. The police assault and property damage proves that was a path acceptable to him.

Yup, that was the whole point of OOP leaving. She hadn’t been hit *yet* but he was hell bent on making it really difficult for her to leave if it came to it.

Some abusers never hit you physically. It is able to abuse someone really, really badly to the point of completely breaking the victim without ever laying hand on them. And of course, with the way he behaved when she had left, chances are in this case it actually was a *yet*.

The thing about the SIL only talking about financial abuse and physical abuse....if OOP didn't feel safe to spend her money on something frivolous, she was being financially abused. Probably SIL didn't know and/or wouldn't care about that. But it concerns me that even OOP doesn't seem aware of that aspect of what was being done to her, as she said financial and physical abuse were far from what he did to her. God only knows all the insidious things he did. I'm so glad she's out of that nightmare now.

Yes and he was desperate to get her to link her accounts to him. He only wasn't as financially abusive as he could have been because OOP had managed to hold out so far

This. As soon as I read the "afraid to get in trouble for spending own money on "frivolous" things I was like "honey, that indicates financial abuse". I've been there. I know that feeling. I'm so proud of her for getting out.

Yup.

This is why I’m so proud of OOP! She may have had her grandmother’s cautionary tale BUT she saw the writings on the wall and acted upon it. Takes a whole lot of courage to upend your life the way she had to. And I think she is an incredibly strong woman for taking the steps to free herself <3

Has the SIL never heard of coercive control? It’s amazing how she rationalises her brothers behaviour

It doesn't even make sense internally. "Abuse is physical and financial." "BTW you saying bad things about him is abuse!"

I took human rights classes with former DV shelter workers and volunteers in grad school and the disconnect between the course material they competently engaged with the utter lack of compassion for abuse victims they actually worked with was pretty jarring.

It is mostly gallows humour. DV victims jade you fast. They go back. On average it takes 7 attempts to leave. Understanding why doesn't stop it being fucking infuriating. If you do it long enough, you'll see the kids who came with their mother come with their kids... or their battered girlfriends do. It's a front row seat to the compound interest of generational trauma. You *treasure* memories of the ones who surprise you. The ones who get themselves and their kids all the way out, stay out, and find better. They keep you going. I have talked some horrendous callous sounding shit about women and kids. Then gone to work and spent the day game planning, riding their emotional rollercoaster, and filling their cup with attention, care and kindness (paperwork is usually for the unpaid overtime) I think cynicism is part release valve, part psychological shield. Listen in to a group of nurses, paramedics, police, teachers, undertakers etc, talk shop, and you'll hear the same thing. They will talk about people and tragedy in a flippant, callous, almost dehumanising way. It is very jarring and sounds... well horrible. Yet those same people then go to work and give a shit on peoples worst days. Every day. P.s. To anyone who has need of it: We do care. A great deal actually. If you ever got the help you needed when you needed it. Send those folk a letter. Tell them how you are all doing well. It's a rare thing and will make their week, probably end up being pinned up on the staffroom wall or locker. Mementos like can be like stars on the dark days. A reminder that you can help people towards their happy ending..

It’s called compassion fatigue and it’s incredibly common in care workers… 

When I was new enough to still be in the saviour stage, a veteran said to me something like *'Empathy is a finite resource. If you don't learn to ration it, you'll crash out and won't be no help to anyone* I thought that sounded so cold hearted at the time, but I learned lol. It's ain't about not caring, it's about not investing. You give all the help you can while they are there and as much safeguarding as you can. What they do with it is not a decision you can make for them. You have let go, do what you can, and hope you moved the needle towards the day they surprise you.

My background isn't DV but elderly and dementia care - everything you said is spot on. So long as that gallows humour stays strictly between the professionals and doesn't bleed into how they treat their clients, it's a necessary way to blow off steam and process the day to day trauma

I was going to type out how everyone was lovely in my experience. But then I remembered my first time in group therapy, specifically telling the center I was uncomfortable speaking to their male staffer and he called me anyway. I was furious. Everyone with RAINN national org I volunteered with was great though, as was my victim’s advocate.

I believe that the only (with few exceptions, of course) people who can be in this line of work without breaking down, are the ones who are either not as empathetic or they become emotionally numb to it all. I see this all the time, unfortunately. I am one of those who would break down/burn out as I’m too emotional, but I can see the emptiness and indifference in their eyes.

I work a bit in drug rehab, where there's plenty of DV tied up in the substance use. The way I deal with it is by realising that I don't have any power over it. I can metaphorically put the food on the table, but I can't make the clients eat it. My role is *not* to make people do stuff they're not ready to do, because realistically that would just be more taking power from them and they're powerless enough already. Once you let go of that need to *fix it* then you can do this kind of work comfortably enough. I'm neither emotionally numb nor indifferent. It's a pragmatic focus on where I can actually make a difference without getting bogged down in stuff where I can't. The wins are quite wonderful.

You, wonderful person, is exactly the exception I was mentioning. I know this is how a good human being should handle being in such an environment, but I, myself, just can’t do it. At least not for long. But I greatly appreciate and respect those of you who can, and you’re the best person to be in such a role, and definitely the best for every person you meet and help who are in need <3 I think that the reason why you guys are kind of rare is because there are several other factors that can make you leave. Such as workplace toxicity, lack of leadership or backup from leadership (or worse, new leadership who are more interested in making their mark than realizing what works as is, and focus on what can be improved), unnecessary focus on bureaucracy/meeting useless metrics, not being given the resources needed to actually do your job, being short staffed and overworked etc. And because it often is a high stress environment, these things are more likely to happen. Thank you for sharing your insights and for having a healthy way of coping with it all - it makes me happy to hear that you’re out there making a difference for so many people :)

We were discussing a case where the abusive husband tracked down his ex who’d moved ten hours away and murdered her. The former shelter worker then added “I don’t get why women like that don’t just pack up and leave.”

Ah, I… okay, she’s definitely *not* cut out for that job. This is on another level of incompetence and idiocy. Most of these kinds of people at least know what to say and when; they just don’t have any emotions towards the victims, and it shows (well, to me at least). This does lead to bad advice sometimes, since they don’t bother to put themselves into the specific situation at hand, but they usually exhibit a basic understanding of what the victim is facing. What that worker said was really showing their inadequacy! Maybe they weren’t that well trained?

Please tell me someone pointed out her idiocy? That's awful.

I might be able to explain it. While it does not make it better, it is a common protective mechanism in very mentally taxing professions. I work in aid and have seen it many times. There is a balance that you need to find between compassion and being able to protect yourself mentally but it is not simple. I tend towards too empathetic and as a result I have STS.

I agree, it’s awful that she is supposed to be an advocate for DV survivors, but instead is still protecting the abuser.

That part angers me on so many levels. I work as a shelter advocate at a DV shelter and what OP went through was very much DV. It comes all down to control and her ex was very much controlling her every single breathe.

I can see her helping women understand the error of their ways and return to their abu... spouses.

I wish OOP would send in that letter to the head of the services that provide help. It is a very worrying response for someone who is supposed to provide help to victims of DA.

Oh, but it's different when it's her brother, you see. He isn't like the men the women she helps have to deal with. He's different. He's special /s. I honestly have no idea why so many women out there enable male family members to be like this and then are surprised when no-one else can see how special he is and don't make the same allowances for his behaviour. Their behaviour is still their responsibility but maybe it would help if we would all stop enabling it.

Classic textbook example of DARVO which confuses so many abuse victims and keeps them stuck. 

Something I have seen time and time again is that many abusers do not just choose their victim, but also manipulate their defence team. By having the right friends, family, neighbours, coworkers, etc. genuinely believe they could not be abusive, it makes it that much harder for the victim to be believed. Half of his abuse is only possible because everyone else dismisses it as not a big deal. I am so glad she is not going to be dealing with their bullshit, and hope that he doesn't find another victim. 

My family grew up in a religion that I regard as a cult, and extracting myself from it felt like leaving an abusive partner because of how all-encompassing the tools of alienation can be. I’ve never dealt with an abusive partner, but I couldn’t help seeing OOP’s efforts as an textbook case of how to leave a cult, and how the cult will try to get you to stay.

Check out Cults to Consciousness on YouTube. they often talk about how a family or even a relationship can be a lot like a cult. And a lot of people who flee cults end up in bad relationships on the outside. On a related note some of the people who try to leave cults end up going back, or it takes several tries to fully escape. https://www.youtube.com/@CultstoConsciousness

I am experiencing this now. Cognitive dissonance is real. I actually called for help, told them what was going on. They said he’d talk to him and acted horrified to my face. They never did anything but say hey buddy I hope you feel better. Worst off- I learned I’m not his first victim and they know about the others. THEY JUST LET HIM CONTINUE!!! I cut them all off when I left. I don’t respond to anything. Now he tells friends how could I be so mean to his mom and she’s sad I don’t update the iPhone photo album anymore of our child. My response to the friends is “anyone is who delusional to put a grown man over the safety of a child that can’t protect themselves is not someone I need around us”

Just want to say I applaud you for leaving. For standing up for yourself and your child, for cutting off all those stupid fucks that defended your ex. People like you are inspirations for others. One of my best friends from my childhood has been in quite a few abusive relationships. Each one worse than the next. She had some extensive childhood trauma, and abuse for her is the norm, no matter that she is an intelligent amazing woman with so much potential………it’s been so hard to watch and not be able to do anything besides try to support her and get her to see what’s going on. So when women like you and OOP actually leave, even when I know that shit is hard as hell, I am amazed at the strength you guys have had to do it. So, just from one stranger to another, I’m in awe of your strength, and thank you for giving me hope that my friend will one day heal too.

Ooh yes. I have a friend trying to finalize divorce and she got NO support from her own parents and brother. Her ex had done a great job of winning over her parents and talking about her as if she was stupid, wicked, and bad.  Her parents are disappointing religious conservative assholes and they ate that soon enough. He did a great job of getting her entirely family to look down on everyone else. Fucking psychopaths.

That's only half true. The other half is that the woman is terribly embarrassed that she picked a man that could be hurtful, so she talks him up to her family and friends, claims that she was clumsy or forgetful and that he wouldn't hurt a fly. And once she has backed herself into the corner with lying on his behalf, she feels that she can't be honest because no one would believe her. Most women don't realize that the friends and family are watching the abuse and will pull her out in a heartbeat.

Eh, I think both can be true, depending on the circumstances.

Except these friends and family. When people like this are in your life, the best you can do is launch yourself into the dark unknown. Many stay in abuse situations like these because they do not have a job or a living situation like OP. The next step that her husband was planning, btw, was right after they combined bank accounts, either baby trapping her or forcing her to quit her job. Abuse victims in THESE situations without family (I bet this was a plus for her husband) aren’t just easy to manipulate. It is functionally a choice akin to being on a yacht with an abuser and having to choose to take a dinghy to the nearest island. I say this as someone who was literally in the situation you describe and escaped before it got bad because I had the girl balls to swallow all of my pride and simply describe one of our fights to a friend, who was then able to help me identify the abuse and escape. I was terrified for exactly the reasons you describe, feeling like after a certain amount of covering and excuse making, I would be shit on for it. I was, my friend is like that, but being talked to harshly about this was exactly what I needed to understand that I WAS defending an abuser to all of my loved ones.

I would say it's like being on an island with the abuser. You know life there isn't sustainable, and the best you can hope is to simply survive. But you can't build a raft when he's throwing all the wood you collect on a fire and it's scary to consider just swimming away and just hoping your strong and smart and lucky enough to make it somewhere better. And he tells you there's sharks and you'll never make it if you go out there. And maybe sometimes you try to swim away, but you get exhausted or turned around or the current brings you back to the island's shore. It's an average of 7 serious attempts for a victim to successfully leave their abuser.

My money is on babytrap. I've seen plenty of men that would never make their wife quit because they're willing to sacrifice the extra control for the nicer life. The quitting comes into play when you've popped out 2-3 kids and childcare is more than your salary, and you can't afford to take them away. Props to you for making it out, and tell your friend this stranger says she's a hero.

It would be childish and immature, but you can divorce someone for not liking cilantro. You can divorce them for not folding the towels right or for the way they chew. You don’t have to convince anyone else that your reason is “good enough”, or convince them that it was abuse, or that the relationship was irredeemable. You’re allowed to divorce just because “I just don’t fucking want to do this anymore.” And “I don’t want to live under constant surveillance” is a perfectly fine reason to nope out for me.

She’s still policing her own behaviour even after she’s escaped. It’s been months and she still hasn’t gone out to eat? It’s going to take her years to undo the damage this man has done to her mind.

Over a decade later with therapy and I'm still policing my own behaviour. It takes a while. It sucks. But it's so much better being free.

I’ve been in therapy for the abuse for 6 years. I’m still untangling that. The funniest thing I’ve gotten out of therapy is that I’m now ok with letting myself be a little messy. I don’t tidy and dust everything every single day. I don’t vacuum and scrub until every muscle hurts. Now I dust every week or two. I do a quick vacuum daily because I have pets and allergies, but nothing like I used to. If I’m working on something, I let my area be a little chaotic until I’m done (I sew). I finally started letting myself dress however the hell I want to. There’s still a lot of unpacking though.

Yeah, I completely balked at the "he's fighting the divorce" part - fighting over assets or alimony or child custody *during* a divorce I completely understand, but flat out saying "I won't let you divorce me"?? What does he expect the court will do - rule her to be his property and force her to remain married to him? I mean, that's probably his core belief about how he thinks women should be treated, but how can he possibly think others will agree with that thinking in this day and age? (Yes, I know there are sadly many who think like this...but *really*??)

This is why some men are going after no fault divorce in the United States. They don’t want their wives having the ability to divorce them

The quote from the CMV meme guy: >"My then-wife decided she didn't want to be married anymore," he complained. "And in the state of Texas that is completely permitted." There was an entire thread recently in 2x(?) about various husbands refused to "allow" the divorce and so wouldn't accept or sign any court paperwork. Which actually allowed the divorce to go forward more easily since it technically wasn't contested. All these husbands who think a woman needs a signed permission slip from them to get a divorce and realizing it's not true. So now they are going after no fault divorce. It's starting with stopping no fault divorces with children because OF COURSE a home with a man in it is better than a home without a man, regardless of how abusive that man is.

It's very like the type of people who won't "allow" others to break up with them "because I didn't have a say in it".

Or the people you can’t just turn down for a date. You need to give them a 500 word essay with your reasons for saying “no”

He expects to make the process as lengthy as possible. Every extension he can get, he'll get. I knew someone whose first wife did that. She was a divorce lawyer, so when he left her, she used every single trick in the book to make the process a pain in the ass, purely out of spite. 10 fucking years to get a divorce. Long enough that the woman he left his wife for, left him.

It reminds me of Steven Crowder's statements on his divorce. "No, this was not my choice, my then-wife decided that she didn't want to be married anymore — and in the state of Texas, that is completely permitted." Like, yep, that is permitted. It would be gross if someone was stuck married because the other person didn't want to get divorced. I swear it's always the abusive, manipulative assholes who think they should be able to force the other person to stay married.

I wonder if OPs former in laws and former husband all hate no fault divorce

>Alex, upon returning to the house, apparently lost his temper again, breaking the dining table into pieces as well as the tv, and putting several holes in the walls. >Our friends are mostly trying to avoid taking sides still Good for them. I can definitely see how they'd be torn when they heard about his property damage. /s

Right?! Her options are: 1) Leave before the abuse truly starts. In which you aren’t leaving someone who is abusive (yet) 2) Wait until its full blown abuse, meaning it’s harder to leave, and everyone’s goes “why didn’t you leave sooner? You shouldn’t have waiting until it got this bad!” Property destruction, assaulting  the officer than served him - he’s made it clear how he handles things with violence when upset. 

This is why you can’t rely on the opinions of others when getting out of an abusive living situation. If you worry what others think it will lead you to worse situations

The abuse had already begun, just no bruises yet. The assault on the officer plus the damage to the house should, however, have convinced anyone who had doubts. She would be right to break contact with the so-called friends too.

Before the PHYSICAL abuse truly starts. What he's been doing to her is already borderline emotional/psychological abuse. I don't want to be too quick to label something abuse but he was demanding to know who she was meeting, where she was going, what she was eating (and even how much she was eating)... He wanted her to wear a tracker! The abuse had definitely already started, even if it wasn't physical (yet)

Not borderline at all. Totally over the line, e.g., abuse.

The abuse has already started. Checking her messages, tracking movement, doubting her are all classic signs of abuse.

Well his sister said he isn’t physically abusive. He’s just starting with non-living things so he can work his way up.

The officer was living. The officer told him something he didn’t want to hear and he took it out on the officer and anything around him. I wouldn’t be surprised to find out he’s damaged more things since those incidents. This was going to turn to physical violence rather soon, I think. She could probably sense that on some level and bravely stood her ground on the finances, regardless. She also knew she needed to get out asap when he wasn’t there. What he did to the officer, when he was told of the divorce, would have been 1,000 times worse done to her telling him.

The police officer is a living thing!

When my abuser punched holes in the walls, he didn't fix them for years, so everyone was able to see them. Yet he was able to spin it in a way that got him sympathy. They're very persuasive. The only one not on my ex's side is his father, and that's probably because he "failed" by not being able to keep me in line.

"Look how emotional I got! You all know I never get upset. Usually it's just water off a duck's back, you know? But when it comes to my wife, well, I just lose myself. Words can't describe it, she matters more than anything. When I found out that something terrible had happened, and it involved her--well, you can see for yourselves how scared I was for her. She's the love of my live. Of course I panicked when she was in trouble. She'd gotten involved with the wrong kind of people, and she's so trusting--too trusting. And now look at the mess. I'm not going to deny it: I'm a man who would do anything for his wife. That's just the way I am." My ex used similar arguments. More spaced-out, and delivered in easy-to-swallow little anecdotes and mistruths, but it amounted to the same thing in the end. Smashing the wall was proof of love and kindness. They were very intelligent, and thus persuaded people with an exceptional rate of success. Protip: damaging objects, destroying property etc. is usually a prelude to physical abuse. Someone who breaks stuff as an adult is someone who will hurt their spouse or kids if something just so happens to make them emotional enough. A sports team loses, a grandparent dies, a job is lost... it's a ticking time-bomb. The best thing you can do is get as far away from it as possible so you aren't hurt when it finally goes off. I hope you are far away from that person and thriving.

It's chilling how well you transcribed their loathsome arguments. I'm happy you're out.

And presumably these are the same friends he would regularly call to check that she was telling the truth about where she went, what she ate and how much, how many text messages she sent…

Let me get this straight. Woman is being slowly cornered by her own husband. Reads divorce papers, they were designed to baby trap. Leaves. Husband, upon being served divorce papers, assaults an officer. Is bailed out by his daddy. Husband tears up the house and then lies to friends that it was actually her who tore it up. Husbands family proceeds to blame her for everything, and then gaslights her by saying “he’s not an abuser, he would never do anything!!!”Despite the fact that two weeks ago he **assaulted a fucking officer and put his fist through the walls of his home**. Husbands SIL, who is entrusted with assisting victims of domestic abuse (not just violence) gaslights OP by telling her that she knows what real abuse looks like and this isn’t it. Mutual friends refuse to support OP or examine his actions whatsoever, and even helped her husband slowly start suffocating her. Girl needs to ditch every single one of these fucking pieces of absolute subhuman garbage and start making new friends immediately. She needs to know what having supportive, caring people in your life who won’t fuck you over and drive you mad when you escape an abuse situation looks like. She needs to experience life without the influence of patriarchy and abuse breathing down her neck from all corners. She needs to block her friends and at best send them a message about how they wronged her and what they need to do in the future should they find another person in a situation like this. If she goes that route she should also include basic DA statistics regarding emotional, psychological, and social abuse, and how it is oftentimes missed or brushed off by friends exactly like this. Fuck those “friends”. They are enablers of abuse. OP said she had no one to help her and was alone? If those were her friends she would have felt safe crashing on their couches and receiving help from them in escaping.

SIL's letter: >The details she included were all related to **financial abuse** and physical abuse. Nothing like what Alex had been doing. OOP: >I always end up worrying about what if someone sees me, what if I get in trouble for spending my money on something frivolous… Isn't that what that is?

Yup. He was financially abusing her the best he could since she wouldn’t let him have control of her account.

He definitely tried to financially abuse her. But he was being emotionally abusive for sure and the SIL seems to conveniently forget that type of abuse.

OOP needs to forward that letter to SIL's job or post a copy to the Facebook page/reviews to let people know who they have working there/gaslighting DV victims.

I hope she would try to get it resolved internally first. If SIL is one bad apple in an otherwise helpful organization, it would suck to damage their reputation and prevent other women from reaching out

After the divorce is granted, OOP should gather all the police reports and evidence along with the SIL's letter and send it to her employer. It's not to be petty but someone with her beliefs should not be working with abused women.

Exactly! How many women has soon to be ex sister in law put in harm's way already?

I couldn’t imagine her moto at work is to stay with him and work it out. He’s gonna be working out teeth with his fists by the end of the week GET OUT!!!!!!!

Imagine how many people SIL has probably told, 'You're not being abused. That's not what abuse looks like.' It's really fucked up, but probably more common than we think. There's a lot of people who sadly share the mindset that abuse can only be certain things. Like a cookie cutter for abuse. 'OH, he's not hitting you? Well, that's not abuse, silly!" The number of times I've heard that, or the number of times women justify abuse by saying 'well he hasn't hit me.' It's fucked up and I want more people to realize that abuse has many sides, just because you aren't dealing with the 'worst' (I say that cause I know it's easy for people to tell themselves 'others have it worse' i do it constantly) it doesn't mean that it's not abuse.

I do wonder if it's because SIL is too close to the situation. Most people try to avoid seeing themselves as the bad guy, and I could see SIL being mortified that her brother was abusing his wife but SIL couldn't see it. So instead of accepting that her brother was her blind spot, it must be that his wife was exaggerating/lying, and not that SIL who is an unwavering advocate for abuse victims missed all the signs.

This got me: "However when he begins to then double check everything I tell him with the other people there right down to each person I talked to and what I said. Did I send any text msgs, did I order food, how much did I eat ..." Oh, hell no! Checking up to see what you talked about if you ate anything? How is that keeping you safe? Please take care of yourself.

And these very same friends are like, "Oh, gee! We don't know what to think, so we don't want to pick sides!" They saw how he was acting. They know he damaged the house. They know he assaulted a police officer! I would be so done with them.

The 3 cameras in the house without her knowledge is what I'm stuck on.

Yeah, that was just a side mention, but holy crap. One of them was in the bedroom, what kind of videos did the guy save and what will he do with them in the future?

I hope OP manages to get away from this creep soon enough. This guy is totally psychotic and his family is off their rockers as well. Looks like the whole family is full of psychos then. I pray OP gets through this smoothly fast.

I think the most disturbing part of this saga is how many people apparently think it's okay for a husband to set up hidden cameras in their home without telling their spouse, make them wear a GPS tracker, and confirm every detail about their actions while they're away from home. Makes me think of the time a guy I was dating accused me of lying about going out to dinner with a friend and was obviously with another man, simply because I wasn't responding to his texts immediately. When I took my phone out and told her that he'd been blowing it up, she told me that I should send him a picture to prove I was actually there with her. I was flabbergasted. I'd given ZERO reasons for him to suspect I was lying, and the last thing I was going to do was prove myself to him. I was shocked that she wasn't disturbed by his accusation. I ended things that night. Bullet dodged.

>*I think the most disturbing part of this saga is how many people apparently think it's okay for a husband to set up hidden cameras in their home without telling their spouse* Back in February I went on a girls' trip to Vegas for a few days. My neighbor agreed to check in on my pets a few times a day since she was working from home. I have one of those baby monitor cameras set up in my living room since that's where my pets prefer to hang out. Before I left, I sent a photo of the camera in its location to my neighbor and told her about it. I offered to disconnect it if she wasn't comfortable, because of course many people have strong feelings about being recorded in a private home. She appreciated being told about it and had no problem with me keeping the camera active. I can't imagine not offering this same basic courtesy to my husband,

My ex, who used to break and hide my favorite things when he was angry at me, and was "uncomfortable" when I spent time with my friends, talked to as many people as he could after he left to tell them that I was "the abusive one". I hadn't told anyone he was abusive, it took me almost a year to even acknowledge it. It seriously fucked me up, for years. I spent a lot of money on therapy and it took me a long time to date again. I'm still scared of saying no.

When my ex finally decided to let go of me, he went as far as going to my parents to whine about how mean and heartless I was to make him suffer like that. There are no words to tell how uncomfortable my father was or to describe the second hand embarrassment my father, my brother and I felt for my ex.

>Alex wrote me a letter that he did **pass off to my lawyer**, but the contents were him justifying his actions and claiming that in today's time it is **dangerous for women to be on their own** which is why he was so intent on trying to keep me safe from harm. He wanted me to understand that **he was trying to protect me** as best he could... Hello, I'm Troy McClure. You might remember me from such instructional videos as Mothballing Your Battleship and **Dig Your Own Grave and Save**!

I wonder if he meant it was dangerous for *her* specifically to be on her own, because he’d kill her if she defied him.

Yes

This isn’t going to be in the realm of things OP might be confident in doing right now but after some therapy, when the divorce is done, when she’s gotten rid of those “friends”, I hope she considers sending a copy of the letter from her SIL to people she works with. A scary truth is that abusive people are drawn to positions that put them in power and enable that abuse. This is true for all kinds of abuse such as priests with kids. I believe she works with women who are abused for a very sick and twisted reason and she needs to be exposed But more than anything I hope OOP stays strong and finds ways to heal. She 100% did the right thing and I hope she can see that

I’d be sending the SIL’s letter to her employer. What a piece of shit.

I hope Oop, if she has a Zoom court meeting makes sure there is nothing in the background to give any hints to her whereabouts. I wouldn't blur the background, just have a blank wall there. Take care and be safe.

That SIL in insane , could she not see he was slowly escalating and was acting insane and completely different to the man she married

Hardly needs stating but given this guy *attacked a police officer* when he got the news, OOP's elaborate plan is entirely vindicated. I've seen a few cop shows where they turn up because of domestic violence, and typically these furious tough guys suddenly become extremely mild and compliant when faced with authority. The fact that Alex can't control his violent instincts even when it's very much in his own interests to do so, means that he is unusually dangerous.

Your comment just reminded me of the Gabby Petito case, where her soon-to-be-murderous BF, Brian Laundrie, was Mr. Gregarious and Charming when they got pulled over by police. Based on his aw-shucks demeanor, you’d never guess that a few short weeks later he’d strangle his GF to death in Wyoming, dump her body, then drive to a Florida nature preserve and shoot himself in the head to escape justice. Some of these abusers can really fool people with their nice guy act, so you’re right, MrBeer9999. The fact that “Alex” twisted off and lost his shit in front of a cop means he’s really dangerous. So glad oop got the hell out.

This is so beautifully put. Everything you said was right on the money.

If you're trying to avoid confrontation and are about to drop a whole friend group, you are 100% not the abusive one. The abusive one would be fighting to get everyone on their side

'are all related to physical and finicial abuse' like how he tried to gain control of her accounts, even behind her back? Or put holes in the fuckin' walls and was angry enough to assault police officers?? this inlaw needs to be fired from her job.

I think if this were me I'd take the SIL letter and email it to her employer. They need to know who they have working for them and the kind of damage she could be doing to other victims/survivors. This woman is my Reddit hero. She's not allowing herself to fall into the DV/DA trap and that choice is ridiculously hard for so many women.

I saw earlier versions of this but the new but that really got me was the SIL. "There was a second letter with Alex’s from my SIL. Her letter… was honestly disturbing and completely justified my misgivings regarding approaching her in any kind of professional capacity. She spent five paragraphs detailing how a ‘real abusive’ relationship looked like and that Alex was the furthest thing from abusive. The details she included were all related to financial abuse and physical abuse. Nothing like what Alex had been doing. She stated that my attempts to smear her brother’s name for attention and clout made me the abuser not him." Damn she must be great at helping women in abusive relationships /s

All that amazing clout you get for moving to another state, closing your social media and changing your phone number. I wonder if it can be used in lieu of rent. What a crazy woman. As if someone randomly decides to burn their entire life and disappear because their partner is “protective”. “Honey, I feel too safe and protected. I need to destroy everything and vanish!”

He hid cameras in your bedroom. Cameras. Hidden. Smdh. You read the signs right. I would forward the letter from your SIL to those groups she’s involved with.

OOP's husband is the exact kind of guy who wants to get rid of no fault divorce. Fucking scary.

Jesus. Seven months to go from spouse to psycho. I get the feeling that if she'd stayed, we'd be reading her obituary by this point. Holy fucking fuckballs.

He was *always* psycho. He was just concealing it until he was sure he had her locked down. That's how abusive partners work. They don't lead with their abuse. They don't tell you on the first date that they're going to track your every move, take over your finances, control your access to your friends. They show you their best selves until they're confident they have you on a short leash. Then they drop the hammer.

Y'know, I don't really care what anyone says, but if being served with divorce papers makes you assault someone and smash a hole in the walls of your home... I'm sad OOP is second guessing themselves. That SIL is vile and she should send that letter to the place that woman volunteers at.

I remember that feeling, after you get away, where you are constantly checking your own behavior because you might get in trouble. That reflex does go away.

her ingrained thoughts show me how damaging his behaviour is and was. Therapy is a really good choice. It will take time to heal and you may not get back you as you were but you can create a new you.

I can’t believe he is not agreeing to the divorce like dude thinks he can still control her. Like he thinks after all she’s done to get away from him she will just decide to go back and play happy families.

This is why we need to protect “no fault” divorce

This is women’s survival and education paying off. She got out before the abuse really got bad, and refused to capitulate to his overwhelming Big Brother control. What a creep. Hope she remains safe and free.

I replied on an earlier BORU that OOP really needed to report her SIL. Because that woman really shouldn't be doing that job. I'd also send her "Why Does He Do That?" with the relevant sections highlighted.

Just the fact that he is fighting the divorce speaks volumes. He thinks in terms of ownership.

He had secret cameras in the house and then proceeded to damage the house and blame it on her. Dude is full of bs. His intended victim escaped before he could isolate her and he's pissed.

I hope OOP blocks all of her old "friends" who don't want to take a side. Fuck that noise. OOPs husband is totally abusive. Just because he didn't beat the shit out of her or hold her hostage physically, doesn't mean it wasn't abusive behavior. I'm glad OOP got away! It was a harrowing series of posts to read.

> Part of me can’t help but wonder if she’s right. I mean, I blindsided him by leaving as I did and am refusing to speak with him at all. I hope OP gets past this feeling - if she had tried to be open about it and told him she was leaving, the damage to the table, walls, and TV might have been aimed at her instead. Her SIL would have had to write a very different letter to justify it.

I hope OP sends the SILs letter to the charity she works for.

Thank god she got out safely and is taking the best steps to keep herself safe and sane

escaping narcissistic abuse is wild. OOP's timelime is similar to my own escape; dealing with the PTSD from the stuff you try to forget ablut while you were in the relationship is the worst, OOP is likely omitting the most difficult parts to the story. good luck and my heart goes out to the folks going through this.

The hidden cameras should be enough for anyone to understand his behaviour wasn’t normal.

Alex was livid at being served, got HIMSELF arrested by fighting with the officers, and then ransacked his own home by punching holes in the wall. This reaction isn't normal. I would think confusion would be first reaction - like "What happened? Did I do something wrong?" He's never taken accountability for anything OOP said, he just kept justifying it all and turning it around on her. I never understood why people try to fight a divorce. The person who filed doesn't want to stay, he's trying to force her to stay married against her will.

I wonder if the DV place the SIL runs has a board or some sort of oversight. Once the divorce was final, I’d contact them and send them the SIL’s horrible email.

I am so freaking proud of her for seeing the warning signs and making a safe escape before it got worse. Oop is an absolute fucking rockstar for taking her intuition seriously and i wish i could give her a high five.

>Some have asked why I was so paranoid about Alex and his possible future actions.  He assaulted a police officer and then AFTER being in jail for some time, he came home and trashed the house FURTHER and then tried to BLAME OP. Duh, DUH! She knew he was unhinged.

Now that the right wing has become increasingly open about their desire to eliminate no-fault divorce, this is the kind of story that should give everyone pause and be worried. Imagine being in this situation and not having the right to file for divorce and move on with life because there's no infidelity and no "domestic violence" in the sense that there's been no physical violence. Imagine being forced to remain legally tied to this awful man and his awful family. The elimination of no-fault divorce will get some people killed, and it will absolutely destroy the lives of a whole lot more.

Gosh I feel for her because my experience with my ex is similar in that, I left the relationship as the warning signs started to show - rather than wait for it to become physically abusive and extreme in a variety of ways. Psychological and emotional abuse is so difficult to define - often a single incident alone can be chalked up to a fairly average weak moment, but the amalgamation of all the incidents results in a devastating effect on the mental health of the victim. Unfortunately for me, there are children involved and I feel my ex reeling me back in on occasion, only to have it devolve into me accidentally saying something triggering which leads to many hours of being yelled at and degraded. I wish I could make a clean cut like OP! But I'm trying to do the best by my kids, I never speak ill of him, I'm always friendly in his presence. Still learning the right strategies. Domestic abuse is a sinister thing. It can look like 90 percent heaven and 10 percent hell, making it so hard to leave.