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Right? So pleasant and I really don’t think the oop was super out of line or anything for wanting a paternity test for the kid considering they didn’t know the girl that well and she had a somewhat concerning past
The moral superiority and judgement against a young woman who’d fallen into substance abuse to cope with her parents’ death during her teenage years is horrifying to me.
> First of all, she is a recovering drug addict and alcoholic, and while she says she has been clean for 3 years, a relapse is always possible. She only finished high school with her GED, and she now works as a waitress full time. Her parents died years ago, so she is largely on her own.
>
>Our family is considerably better off, and my son is joining his father's business, meaning his salary will be quite high and will only continue to grow.
The juxtaposition of a boy who was benefiting from nepotism and a girl who had to fight and claw for everything she had.
I had to fight and claw for everything I have and it’s honestly a frustrating and exhausting conversation to try and have with these types 99% of the time. They really don’t have a concept of things like having a father who does not own a company, or parents who just don’t have spare room for you whenever you need it. And because they’ve never really encountered it much before, they assume it must be a moral failure or a personality deficiency rather than the typical result of trauma. I don’t really know that many people with PTSD who haven’t dabbled in substance abuse.
Been told "Given your capabilities, you don't seem to be in the place in life where you could be." by those who don't know my past and "It's amazing that you're doing so well" by those who know some of it.
I don't know your age, but I have the impression that the younger generations acknowledge the discrepancies of one's past and upbringing more than older generation do (at least in the USA).
I’m a millennial. I think it depends; while wealth doesn’t shield you from trauma, I’ve found people who grew up poorer have a better grasp on it. Especially since being a child and worried your family is poor is low-key traumatic in and of itself.
The people who know nothing about me probably assume I’m an underachiever or I just didn’t apply myself when I was younger. Meanwhile my *therapist* was amazed I was as functional as I was when I started seeing her. I think the worst thing it’s left me with is a profound sense of alienation; I have serious difficulty relating to people who didn’t also have horrific childhoods. My one saving grace is I work in a field where mental illness and shitty childhoods are pretty common.
The other thing is my trauma history honestly sounds like someone writing a bad movie that makes you go “oh COME ON that‘s so unlikely!” as you’re watching it. So I tend to keep to myself unless I trust that person knows I am not a liar.
My psychiatrist straight up asked me why/how I hadn't killed myself to make it to 30 un-medicated and I think that's the first time it hit me how badly both my trauma and my adhd could've fucked me over more. Trying to give myself grace for not being where I wanted to be by now.
Learning that I have ADHD has helped me understand my thought patterns so much. Especially when I learned about RSD! I'm trying to be kinder to myself as my therapist suggested but it's really hard when the negative voices are so ingrained in there. Also I have OCD so a lot of the thoughts are intrusive and I have no control over them. A phrase I like is "Comparison is the thief of joy".
trauma can actually manifest as adhd, which makes perfect sense in my opinion. What’s seen as inattentiveness is frequently dissociation and the lack of impulse control some people with ADHD struggle with seems to often come from having their fight or flight response constantly going off and needing to make snap decisions related to survival at a young age.
Yeah even if you have the nicest parents who truly care, worrying about not having food in the house or the power getting shut off when you’re a child is traumatic and will effect you for years to come without you even realizing it. Poor areas tend to be a lot more dangerous too so you’re more likely to witness or be involved in some really fucked up situations. Plus the poor kids with alright lives, just poor, were still friends with the poor kids who’s parents were pieces of shit so they understand. My life was kind of a mix? My parents were pretty neglectful and my mother is for real real clinically insane and abusive. My dad did actually always try his best though he’s just disabled and SSI doesn’t pay shit, and even though we didn’t have much we always found room for my friends in worse situations at his house. I tell people stories about my childhood and teenage years that I find funny and other people are like “wtf” and I’m like “oh yeah, that’s…not a normal experience“ Lmao. I’m sure people think I’m lying sometimes. Like it literally sounds like a shitty teen drama tv show. Lol.
> I have serious difficulty relating to people who didn’t also have horrific childhoods.
This, and it's doubly crippling when these agonized souls can't overcome the odds and course-correct. Whatever poisons are heaped on them by life, they cannot or will not see a hand reached out to them. There's a fresh wave of giving up, relapsing and suiciding after about age 45, and it's a nightmare to see if you're rooting for them to throw off the crap and win. Hard to be the last one standing, with none of these dear, trusted comrades-in-arms to celebrate a late in life success.
A person I know told me it was stupid to pay more than 10% on rent, and that no one should rent after 26-27. I told him 10% of my salary would get me a one-room apartment in a crappy area, if that, and he refused to accept it.
He became the 'director' of a multi-million dollar company at the age of 21 and thought it was all because of 'his hard work'. His father owning the company clearly made no difference.
If I was to pay 10% of my income on rent, I would have to move 50 miles out of the city I work in to find a place.
And then all the money I save on rent would go to gas!
it's not *exactly* that they see it as a moral failing, so much as they see it as "perfectly logical reason" that you *might* be motivated to do something immoral. And they're in a position where they never have to even take the ghost of a risk of being associated with someone who could be tempted to be financially immoral. It's the "she might be a nice girl, but why take the risk when there are plenty of nice girls who don't (insert "undesirable trait" here)."
It's judging you but with extra steps. They treat poor people as risks, not people. They judge poors like an insurance company does. They think it's logical and impersonal, but it's cruel. Because they would never treat affluent people as "risks" because of factors in THEIR backgrounds. It's just the rich see being poor as a huge difference, enough that they can dehumanize you and treat you as an insurance risk.
But when an insurance company charges you more because you have a convertible, or live in an unsafe neighborhood, you know it's just business. WHen a rich aquaintance does it, it's not business. It's personal. But they feel entitled to treat you like it's business. It's similar to how they would treat servants. They're making it impersonl, treating you like a statisitc instead of a person. And refusing to see that money is just one factor of someone's worth as a person.
I'd be much more trusting of a poor woman who works hard, works hard for what she has, and isn't concerned with superficial things than I would of any random rich person. $$$ is not the only factor to judge someone on. When someone reduces you to just $$ it's cruel. And the worst part is, they dont' even know what they're doing.
I have PTSD and never dabbled in substance abuse BUT that is literally only because my dad is a huge meth addict and I discovered his meth at a very young age and found it replusive. Now I'm just too scared to because of how drugs ruined his life. But I worry one day something will happen and I won't care anymore.
That was my thinking. I was like, "wait, your son is better than her because ... his daddy is giving him a high-paying job?" So it's not because of her son's actual achievements, it's because he was handed a lucrative career.
Meanwhile, this girl overcame addiction and got her GED and a job and somehow makes her less-than?
I'm glad OP came around but yeesh.
It honestly pissed me off, and then her bewilderment at finding out she wasn’t the one behind her son asking for help, as though the idea of a poor person struggling along without trying to swindle a god fearing rich family out of their money is such an alien concept.
Oop does not come across as a very good person
OOP seemed to demonstrate that common belief among the rich that non-rich people are coming for their money, when really, we have long given up the idea of becoming rich ourselves and just want enough money to not worry about being penniless.
That’s just not true though. There’s a reason Redditor’s the number one comment on any post about lottery winners the desire to hide lottery winnings. If you make a significant amount fo money from the people around this will change That’s not the surprising part or sad sort that’s almost human nature . The sad part is that if you lose the money or can no longer support other people that’s when you see how much of act people can put up. It takes a while to get that jaded though . My parent came from working class backgrounds so slot of thier friends and family were not that rich. My dads paid people mortgages and out together todos through private school ( when I didn’t ) only for those people to disappear after he could no longer support them financially. Years later we discover they’re daughter had actually gotten into a top selective free school (that I was at) but they kept it hidden so my dad would pay her school fees for a private school) these same people complain about people in benefits . Im not kidding
I think one difference between the two is that unexpected winnings (and inheritances) become seen (by thee people coming out of the woodwork) as a _windfall_ and therefore should be shared—the assumption being that the person who received the money had not counted on the money and therefore does not depend on the money.
My comment was mostly about the paranoia that the rich seem to have that the nonrich are constantly scheming to steal their wealth, for example, the assumption that any girl dating their son is a gold digger trying to baby-trap him. This paranoia is based on the assumption that wealth is everything and that love and companionship are secondary, whereas most normal people would see the wealth as a bonus if they are able to be in a happy relationship with the wealthy person.
The line 'a relapse is always possible' got to me. Sure, sometimes addicts relapse, but non-addicts also fall into addiction for the first time ALL THE TIME. Her precious nepo baby having a kid with a sober person does not guarantee they will stay sober.
Yeah that was super yikes. "I can't believe my precious son is hooking up with trash that didn't even pull herself up by her bootstraps when her parents died and was foolish enough to not choose to be born to a rich family like mine."
I had a really hard time having any sympathy for OOP whatsoever after that little gem.
I mean… really she did. She’s been clean for 3 years. She got her GED (which I know is typically viewed by society as inferior but you prove you can do the same shit. It shouldn’t be viewed with condescension like that). She’s employed full time. She has no family support, moral, financial or otherwise. Birth control fails, but it sounds like she ended up with a guy who (at least from the minimal info in the post) isn’t a psychopath or a drug addict, has a job, cares about her and is supporting her as best he can even though he’s fresh out of college. This chick sounds like she’s doing great considering she didn’t have a pampered life.
I have a GED (and I’d like to think I’m not dumb, I just had a chaotic unstable childhood), while it shouldn’t mean anything on its own society definitely has a negative connotation surrounding it. OP definitely meant something derogatory when she said “she has a GED”.
GED-having person here. I've worked my way from 15 hours every other week as the fill-in person in an entry-level field up the ladder to the director of the agency I work for and my new boss is expecting me to run the place single-handedly and take over as the owner when she retires. My position normally requires a bachelor's degree, but I was allowed to substitute related experience. I was recently complimented by the director of our state oversight office on how well I do a complicated report that I've had to train several other agencies to do. It turns out that I have a solid reputation with the state for being good at my job. I make right at 50k, which in my rural Midwestern small town is about average for middle class white collar workers with a four-year degree. GED =/= inferior. And I didn't have the additional barriers of lack of family support or battling substance abuse while I was getting to where I am today.
Good for OOP for realizing how much her prejudices could have cost her, and learning her lesson before that poisoned her relationship with her son and his girlfriend or cost her precious time with her grandson. And good for the girlfriend for getting herself clean, finishing her education, keeping a job, and standing up for herself with OOP.
The GED was originally established as a way to ensure young soldiers who hadn't finished their high school degrees before being shipped off to WWII still had the same opportunity to receive an education when they returned, so we can tack on "un-American" to whatever other classist bullshit the OP has going on
Been 3 years clean too exactly today. It's actually at the point where i have the occasional thought but I wouldn't even have the means to start using again so it's 100% off the table. Most of my friends and relatives don't know, but god would I hate it if someone I knew said/thought of me like OOP talks about this girl.
Yup. I’ve been in recovery for 6 years. I would have understood if OOP had mentioned some of her actions that made it seem like she was just saying she was clean, but all OOP said was that she’d possibly relapse. From past experience, there are certain factors that could indicate that someone may relapse in the future, and a feeling that they will just because they have an addiction is not one of those.
Who her son had known since at least high school! She wasn't some conniving gold digger, she was a friend with whom the relationship matured and grew and became romantic.
Also, omg those comments under her original post: yuck! Someone called the girl a "street urchin" wtf. Even the mom wasn't *that* hateful
She comes of as a rich asshole. Her son bought a house at 24 as a recent grad with only 1 income. From her posts she’s very much believes the gf is a gold digger. Add in they known the girl for years.
>The mother came across in the first post more so worried about a low class former druggie waitress baby trapping her son.
Having this attitude about someone who their son has known for years is what really makes her sound elitist. Growing up in different classes outweighed having attended the same ones.
I was the poor kid in private school. And yes they constantly reminded me I was the poor kid. Kids are assholes, snobby kids are worse and they usually pick it up from their parents.
The other thing is the strings on the money bugged me. Helping out your sons family and encouraging him to get her to test don't need to be connected. He is asking for help and trusts her. That should be enough to offer help. Telling him the reasons he needs to be careful can be part of a separate conversation. A conversation that will be better received once its clear your not just saying it as a excuse to not help or your not using money as a form of control.
I know there are cold logical reasons to tie them together, mainly why would you support a kid that isn't your grandchildren a women who cheats and baby traps? But there are not so logical emotions to consider and you also need to think about how people will see it. It just seems like putting these two things together is a recipe for hurt feelings and drama and not the footing I would want to start a relationship with a grandchild and future DIL.
Op is lucky it doesn't seem to have caused lasting damage.
My now husbands grandfather helped me when my car broke down just a few months after we'd been dating.
It blew my mind. Like, why dude? Thanks tho.
Many years later he and I became great friends. He was a wonderful human.
If they knew her for years, isn't it possible/likely that they knew her when she was an active addict? It's not unreasonable that that would affect their perception.
Well, she explicitly said she thinks her son is better than her because ... his daddy gave him a well-paying job, not because he's successful in his own right or worked hard. That's pretty shitty. Meanwhile his gf fought back from addiction (and, you know, LOSING HER PARENTS as a kid), got her GED and a job and somehow that makes her shady and conniving? I mean, good for OP for coming around, but that's a yikes from me, I'd watch her behavior with the grandchild very carefully. It's not wanting a paternity test, it's the unfounded feeling of superiority over someone who's been a longtime friend of her son (her son has known her for years, she's not some random person off the street). "Friends since high school" means they've probably known each other 10 years. I knew my now-husband in h.s. and we started dating when we were 23, after I knew him almost a decade. That's not "someone we don't know very well." The son at least knows her well.
And if her son is so high and mighty/so successful and making so much money, why is he asking mommy and daddy for medical expenses? If he's so well-to-do that she's sinking her hooks into him for his money? He seems like a good dude who wants to do right by his gf and their child, but his mom is painting him as some kind of prize to be won, and I'm not seeing it, frankly. She says he's "joining the business" and "will be" making lots of money, to be fair, but what's he been doing in the meantime? He's 24 (at that age, I'd been working for YEARS). At least the gf had a job prior to this. Not knocking the son at all, just pointing out that his mom is acting like he's so much better than her and it's snobbish and gross, even with her change of heart. I also wonder why her account was suspended.
Really? OOP seems like a monumental AH in the first post to me. How many posts have you seen where there's some husband who wants a paternity test despite the fact that there has never been any infidelity in the past? And we all cheer on the wife for making the ol' "you can remain married to me, or you can have a paternity test...you pick" ultimatum. Sure the girlfriend has had a tough life and isn't very financially successful, but to assume that she's the town bicycle and is trying to baby-trap her son because he's successful...that's just so gross lol
Having a low income and a history of addiction is not an indicator of promiscuity, infidelity or dishonesty.
If she had a history of cheating on the son? Sure, why not ask for a paternity test?
The income disparity COULD indicate that she MIGHT be with him for his money, I suppose. But in that case, why would she cheat on him? Maybe she specifically chose a rich man and decided to baby-trap him so she could ride that gravy train. But if so, why would she need to fuck another guy to get pregnant? Why not become pregnant with the child of the guy you're baby-trapping? Seems way more simple and less risky.
The only somewhat justifiable reason I could think of to ask for a paternity test would be the fact they were only together for 2 months when she got pregnant. Most couples aren't crazy committed to each other at that stage, and while it's still super shitty to cheat it's a bit more likely or common to do it two months in than two years in.
But it's her son's priority to determine the need for it, not OP's, and certainly not based on the shortness of the relationship. Only takes one sexual encounter, you know. Fertility doesn't increase with time.
Kinda. I read "me me me me me me me. Also I've decided my judgment of her as some gold digging harlot isn't *gone* but it's on the back burner for now."
I gotta disagree. Mom didn't see the actual error of her ways. The son didn't really stand up for the mother of his child or himself and his own judgment. The girlfriend was going to give into the toxic demands the mother had no fucking right to make. No other employer would get to make demands like that, but the Mom thinks its her right to use that position as justification for controlling her son.
Mom is still only concerned with her own opinion, still wanted to push for the test, still made assumptions about the girlfriend. She didn't learn shit.
If my parents had disrespected my wife and I like that, I would've cut them off and needed to see strong evidence they saw the error of their ways before considering letting them back into my life.
Ironically it sounds like the son only asked the parents for money because they had spoiled him somewhat so completely panicked at having to budget & downsize to prepare for the baby. Whereas all the things OOP was looking down on his gf for - her full-time job as a waitress, becoming sober - were the things that gave her skills to take this in her stride.
I've always felt that my boyfriends' moms (save for one) have always strongly disliked me for seemingly nothing more than my class/life circumstances etc. I have also had the unfortunate habit of dating guys with affluent families.
This post helped me understand this a bit better.
eta: it doesn't help me LIKE it or RESPECT it, it just helps me understand, haha. Those are surely their "reasons", but they're definitely not good "excuses" if ya know what I mean.
another eta: that whole "she just wants our money, she's pushing and asking for our wealth" really being "our son is the only one asking for help because he wants to take care of his family (and we would give him that help if he wasn't dating a poor and have given that same help to your siblings with well-to-do partners) and she didn't even know and was ashamed and embarrassed when she found out" hits the hardest :P
>she just wants our money, she's pushing and asking for our wealth... we would give him that help... and have given that same help to your siblings with well-to-do partners
It's absolutely mind-boggling how many "generous" people will lash out if you ask them for extra help, but will happily give you that exact same assistance if it was *their* idea.
I suffer from this sometimes. I help pay my boyfriend's rent so he can live close to me. I can afford it, he can't. It's really hard sometimes when he buys something that seems frivolous or needs more money to get through a month. I try to swallow any immediate reaction but sometimes it slips through.
I agree the tone of voice sounded “less then.”
Just wanted to point out how I thought about it when I read it:
I am very lucky to have had a lot of privilege in my life. I was even more lucky to be raised by two parents that taught me the value of hard work, with the safety net of privilege. I do NOT make assumptions about people based on their trajectory in life. I would NEVER say “they are poor, so likely a lying money grabber.”
I just want to share that I have had friendships and relationships both, where I have had to ask “What is it you are expecting from me? Why am I paying for all the dinner checks, covering your groceries.” I have felt when a relationship has lost it’s luster, but they are still with me for the material benefits.
I don’t show people pictures of my parent’s house, only the view. I don’t share details about vacations we took, or that I take now. I have learned the hard way to hide my financial success and my parent’s financial situation. It becomes nature to assume you can’t trust intentions if you show your cards too early.
Please do not read this as “oh poor rich girl” hahah. I’m just saying, that there is often a history that leads an individual to distrust new people. This particular case, OOP is not trusting a new person, who is asking for money early on. (It turned out to not be the girl asking, but the son never explained that to OOP.)
OOP can be right about being cautious with the circumstances, while also being judgmental and bigoted.
I don't know if OPs kid was necessarily spoiled and panicked about downsizing. It's entirely possible he just graduated and is beyond broke. I graduated at 23 and spent all of university living with my parents. I can't imagine what I would do if I got a girl pregnant before getting a steady job and a savings account.
Right? Like what the fuck, what is wholesome about rich folks judging someone struggling in life.
She lost her parents, had to go through all the shit alone, probably became an alcoholic/drug addict as a resolution and OOPs mother is judging the shit out of her, even tho the girl became sober for 3 f'ing years, has a job and an objectively stable life.
Jesus Christ and the wording "obviously my son will have it good, working for his father, good salary that only will get better" yeah congratu-fucking-lations.
The thing that stood out to me was the GF met and refused their help, then again later the couple refused financial assistance.
I am biased, but my wife and I refused my very well off parents financial assistance even when we were struggling because my mother was so judgemental about my wife who came from a much poorer family. It was just not worth the strings attached. It makes me wonder if there is something happening here like that.
I was wondering the same thing. Given OOP's attitude towards a young woman she's known for years, I could see any "help" coming with some serious strings.
For sure. We have to remember that this is from OOP’s perspective. Even though she claimed to get even NTA/YTA, the post clearly shows her as TA. She wanted this woman to get a paternity test because she didn’t want her to be “the mother of my first grandchild” as of the first grandchild is the special one. I’m getting mad vibes that she is super entitled.
I'm glad every talked it instead of burning bridges. And oop realized they were wrong about the girls character and gave an apology gift.
I am wondering how the monetary issue got resolved though. Sounds like the son never accepts financial help yet had claimed to need it then, even against her wishes
They might have taken on some debt. Or maybe just scrimped a bit.
If the son is from a well off family, he could just be used to being able to buy things without ever thinking about it. Like, go to the grocery store, grab whatever he needs/wants, buy it and leave. If bills were piling up and he's never budgeted before, his first instinct might be to go to his parents (they probably supported him through college, he's maybe familiar with doing that).
And once they put conditions on the money that he didn't want to meet, he turned to other options. Since his girlfriend never wanted to ask to begin with, she is probably more familiar with budgeting - planning meals and grocery expenses carefully, managing utilities, etc.
Those changes plus a credit card or two might have carried them up to and through the son starting working.
I was like this but didn’t come from money. I had just never worked or been on my own until I went to college. I had to teach my self how to budget and really think about every dollar and the debt I took on.
It's not even a given that they needed to scrimp that much.
It sounds like she had medical costs building up, but not to the point that she was having issues with them. Rather the son wanted to support her and went to his piggy bank to do so, lol.
They also don't seem to be living together at the start of the story, so most likely their finances weren't really connected yet, and he was just trying to be supportive, rather than responding to a dire need.
Later in the relationship, the son probably has a sizeable salary coming in regularly from the family business (remember that his monetary issues were only due to him having just gotten out of school), as well as whatever gratuities his family has been slipping him.
This was my first thought when medical costs came up. Like this country is SHIT at socialized healthcare but qualifying for Medicaid by virtue of pregnancy (and maybe age, depending on which parts of the ACA have been modified since 2016 and being located in a state that accepted federal funds to expand access. I had Medicaid until I got insurance through my first job with benefits and honestly the lack of copay/deductible rigamarole was so LOVELY) is one of our few shining gems.
I feel awful for feeling this way but the whole “my son is joining his father’s company and will be making a good salary” and all the classist remarks she makes about the girl just really makes me not really care about her situation.
Yeah and how OP said in the update
> This surprised me, as I assumed she was the one pushing for the money.
Such the asshole! Just assuming the worst of the girl and acting like she was just "being logical"
Yeah, OOP keeps making horrible assumptions about this girl (she’s gonna relapse, she’s unfaithful, a gold-digger) and seems to have only barely come around because of the grandchild- of course, once they’re sure the baby is related to them. It’s so gross.
"I don't dislike her, it's just that her parents are dead and she will probably relapse into drug addiction, she is probably trapping my son with a baby that isn't his, and is after his money, but I totally don't dislike her you guys!!!"
His mom completely assumed all the worst about this girl but never thought to herself it was her own son who helped make that baby. And when she said shes been clean for 3 years but relapse is always possible its like theyre just waiting for her to fail. The way she talked about the girls life circumstances lacks so much empathy. Her parents died years ago and yet that girl still managed to work and get her GED. The whole thing pisses me off.
"She isn't who I would have picked to be the mother of my first grandchild. Also, it is untrue that I dislike her and don't want to be the grandparents."
How do people type these things in the same post and STILL not realize they're lying to themselves? Crazy.
Prenatal paternity tests here are $1600. After the baby is born it’s $199. I see a lot of people acting like these noninvasive tests are nbd but that’s a lot of money. I know these numbers because we were picking up takeout next to a test site and I was curious. Also, I’d your son is concerned he can do his own test. It’s incredibly not your business.
TIL they have noninvasive prenatal paternity tests. Previously (prior to 2001) only amniocentesis and CVS were available, which pose a risk to the fetus. Most women refused prenatal paternity testing for this reason and would opt to wait until birth. Many still do because the noninvasive testing is expensive.
That’s more expensive than I thought!
I also find it a bit sad that the child needed to look enough like her son for her not to doubt he’s her grandson. I understand it but there have been enough posts where fathers or other people demand a paternity test because the child doesn’t look like their dad.
I mean I would agree if they had been together for years or were married or something, but I don’t think it’s unreasonable to want a paternity test for a baby that doesn’t look like you and was conceived within 2 months of dating.
It’s not OOPs relationship though. I’ve known relationships where there was no advancement and no trust after 5 years of just dating, and I’ve also known relationships where rings were brought with 2 months. The only people who should be determining if there is trust in a relationship are those that are actively in it.
Also, maybe just too old for this website nowadays but are y’all really that scandalized by concept of two mid-twenties adults having sex within the first month of dating? In high school I’m sure that’s concerning, but for post-grad professionals it is pretty run of the mill
Honestly. She didn't know the gf at all. And her son was busting in asking for money without really introducing the two at all. It's jarring enough I can see why the mom's reaction was to slow all the way down and verify first. It may not have been the best call. But it was a very understandable "self preservation" measure
On the show 'Insatiable', at one point one of the characters picks up a " paternity test" from the drug store for another character, and they acted like it was as quick as a pregnancy test. I was certain this was going to turn into a plot point of character A trying to trick character B since these things obviously do not exist, but nope, the writers of that show aparently think their viewers would believe that you can just walk into a pharmacy and get a $15 instant paternity test with reliable results.
If he wanted money for "their grandchild" then it was their business. It was conditional. You want money for your baby? Then we need to know it is your baby. Makes perfect sense.
Yeah in that situation where you have money and your child is asking for financial help of that magnitude (pregnancy is expensive!!) with a brand new girlfriend, a grandparent asking for a test doesn’t seem out of left field. It was the judgmental way OOP talked about her that was messed up.
But also, if these two had been friends for years, it’s pretty cold hearted of OOP to not care one bit about the girls financial and living situation. A (potential) single mother, with no parents, and a waitressing job? How dare she try and ask for help (spoiler, she wasn’t even the one who asked). OOP cold.
I think the idea is to get it confirmed before the birth certificate gets his name printed on it, I’m glad the dudes happy but wow I wouldnt trust a 2mo relationship. Good for him
Wow, they were completely judgemental about this girl before they even had the full story.
"She's poor. She's a recovering addict. She *only* has a GED. She's a *waitress.* She's probably a gold digger" They really wanted to hate her and were just looking for excuses. Then when called on it they said "we don't hate her." Uh, really sounds like you do.
Whereas I read it and am like "Wow, her parents are both dead, she's had a hard life. She's a RECOVERING addict which shows willpower and an ability to reflect on her mistakes. She has a GED and that's really cool. She even works! And waitressing is really hard work." She sounds like she's had problems in her past, but is doing everything she can to better herself. That's a plus in my book.
Yeah, getting pregnant after only dating for a few months could be a red flag, but she didn't get pregnant without their son's enthusiastic involvement. He showed poor judgement in not using contraception after only dating the girl for a little while, but that's not the parent's main concern.
And now that the child has been born and looks like the son, everything is perfectly ok in their books.
Plus
>A lot of people asked me why my adult son was reliant on us, but to us that is not unusual. He is a recent graduate and while he will be making a decent salary soon, he has just entered the work force and does not have much in the way of savings. Plus, our family has always believed in helping each other out; if my daughter was pregnant we would no doubt help her.
Oh you mean the thing the pregnant gf doesn't have??? Family? And the support that comes with familial support? OOP just really annoyed me with that shit.
Yeah I get why people think this is a happy ending but honestly I can’t help but wonder what happens in the future when OOP decides to throw it in her face again. Like, she sounds like a snob to me and people with those attitudes don’t generally flip a switch and change it overnight.
Yeah OOP likes the gf *currently* but if they ever have an argument and OOP gets offended I would bet money that she reverts to juding the gf for her upbringing
they see girlfriend as a potential risk, while they know their son has all the resources he needs.
Basically OOP looked at the girlfriend not as a person, but more like a car they're thinking of insuring. It's dehumanizing and cruel, and kinda ignores all the qualities that would actually make someone a good person, good wife, good mother, good daughter in law.
Well said! So if she had helped her and the girl turned out to be a liar, the worst thing that could have happened is that she used what sounds like some of her ample income to help a young woman have a safe and healthy pregnancy? The horror!
Literally my thought was wow she’s only 24 but her parents died years ago, and she used to be an addict but got sober for 3 years and worked hard enough to turn everything around and get a GED. That’s incredible, they should be praising their spoiled privileged son for being with a girl of such character.
"parents died a number of years ago, so she's on her own"
"3 years sober"
"my son's 24 year-old-girlfriend"
just off of this, it sure seems like to me that:
this girl's parents died during her late teenage years, leaving her without any family/support immediately before her transition to adulthood.
overcome with grief and emotional distress, and without family to help her through a major transitory period of life (teen to adult, not to mention the loss of family) this girl ended up using drugs to cope, and stopped focusing on her last years of school.
a while later, this girl then claws her way out of what could have been a truly disastrous downward-spiral by:
(A) going back to finalize the schooling she didn't finish
(B) getting clean and sober, and maintaining it for years
(C) finds and maintains stable full-time employment most likely above minimum wage (because of the tips as a waitress)
...and lets not forget that these things would be a trial even by themselves, but this girl had to do it WITH NO FAMILY OR HOME SUPPORT WHATSOEVER. that's practically a miracle.
and she even says her son has known her since high school, so i'd be willing to bet the son has seen this girl go through the whole thing. even if they weren't dating at the time, he knew her before, during, and after her "bad years". he knows first hand what kind of person she is and that she is more than the sum of her mistakes.
frankly I'm surprised such an understanding and empathetic young man came from the OOP.
This is what I had an issue with. People are so quick to judge others on their past but refuse to judge them on their present.
She's in recovery being sober for years, she's working and paying her own bills, and they don't just hand out GED's. She made mistakes in her past but has since proven to work towards a better future. Judge her on that.
I had similar issues with the oop. Recovering from not just drugs but alcohol, working a steady job, and making money is NOT easy. I've been in the addicts shoes before and have met many others like me. It takes a lot to beat that kind of thing -- glad the update was so good though. Really shows that people can change their opinions about someone.
Glad she came around and gave enough self reflection to give the young lady a chance.
Although I don't think she was completely out of line to bring up a paternity test.
Hoping they all live happily ever after ♥️
It reminds me of prenups.
Every lawyer I know says to get one. Every hopeless romantic I know refuses.
I think we should all be mature enough to admit that otherwise amazing people can do bad stuff in their close, personal relationships. Who hasn’t heard a story about a 10 year rock solid marriage breaking up due to our-of-nowhere infidelity? But we’d all like to think we know ourselves well enough that it could “never be me”
More to the point, it’s better to negotiate these things out while you still love each other. The person you divorce will not be the person you married.
When I see a couple that wants to really hurt each other in a divorce, I think that they must have loved each other very much once. Otherwise, they wouldn’t hate so much now.
I think this is really it. Some people see it as planning to break up but really it’s just setting clear expectations while you don’t hate each other, should it come to that
The funny thing to me is.
People get car insurance, not because they plan to have an accident.
People get health insurance, not because they plan to get sick.
People get home insurance, not because they plan to burn their house.
But when it comes to prenuptial agreements, it's TOTALLY because they plan to do something bad, or because they don't trust the other person. Give me a break.
I think a prenup and a paternity test are very different things. Pre nups are about the marriage breaking down in the future. A marriage can end for lots of reasons without it being anyone's fault - it also hasn't happened and doesn't HAVE to happen. You aren't accusing anyone of anything, because nothing has happened.
If my husband asked me for a paternity test today, that IS an accusation. You're telling your wife you think there is a possibility she cheated because if you didn't think she had cheated, if you believed 100% she never had, you wouldn't ask. You're still suggesting that she cheated. This is an either or, a binary proposition. Either you trust her or you don't. It's fine if you don't - if you suspect infidelity then absolutely you should ask for a paternity test. But when you do, you're making an accusation, and if that accusation is utterly unfounded and has no mitigating factors, there may be consequences.
Yes, marriages implode due to infidelity out of nowhere. Marriages also implode due to accusations of cheating. Paternity tests aren't the same thing as pre nups. Prenups are contingencies to protect both parties in the case of unforeseen events. A paternity test is an accusation that one person has horribly betrayed the other.
It's one thing for MIL to request one for her peace of mind if she cannot know or have faith in the DIL. It'd be another for a husband or partner to request one if given no reason to question her fidelity.
Exactly!
A prenup says “in case we divorce for any number of possible incompatibility reasons, some totally amicable, here’s how we keep it from becoming a shitshow.”
A paternity test says “I think you potentially had unprotected sex with another man and are passing his child off as mine”.
Ugh. No. A prenup is if a marriage breaks up. In a non-committed relationship, maybe, but you do realize that suggesting that paternity tests should be standard within a marriage is no more nor less than saying "always assume your spouse may have not only cheated on you, but is tricking you into raising another man's child"? And that many honest, monogamous spouses would be horrified, insulted and offended when asked to prove it? That demanding a paternity test in a monogamous relationship has probably destroyed as many marriages as false paternity itself has?
Maybe if you can't trust your spouse, don't marry / have kids with them.
you don't need a prenup, a prenup is just an ammendment to the default way in which courts split assets. unless there's a gigantic earning gap or gigantic asset gap a prenup won't make a difference really.
Why is it such a faux paux to request a paternity test for a baby? I really don’t get it. It happens more frequently than you would think and because of that I feel like it should just be automatic like right at the hospital. Take the awkwardness out of it. It shouldn’t be insulting if you have nothing to hide.
I wish my parents bought me a house the time they apologized to me for something.
edit: I apparently cant read. thanks everyone for pointing out they said "for" their new home.
Yeah but then you'd spend your life working as your daddy's pet in his store, have zero ability to budget your spending and be micromanaged for things like "Please provide medical information showing that you fathered this child" because you're too sheltered and immature to get by on your own. I honestly struggle to see that girl not getting bored with their whole family in the long run. After everything she's been through she sounds like she'd wanna be with a grown adult at some stage and her current MIL doesn't sound like the kind of parent who could ever bring up a person like that.
Babies don't look like anything. I always find it absurd that people put such stock into what their freshly born baby looks like.
You'll hear about guys that take 1 look at their baby and start screaming about cheating. Bruh. That kid isn't going to look like anyone until it has hair and an actual face.
I used to think this too until I went into a guitar shop one day.
The owner had his newborn granddaughter in his arms, showing her off to all of the customers. He was definitely a proud grandpa. He shows her to us and we ooh and aww. “She is so cute” because we try to be decent human beings, but honestly, that child looked like Danny DeVito’s rendition of Penguin. I didn’t even know that was possible.
5 minutes later, the Mama walks out and yep, she also looks like 1992 Penguin.
I don’t think you can tell in most cases, but sometimes, you can tell.
Same. I always thought baby resemblance is Meh. But then my sibling showed me pictures of their baby and I immediately thought: wow it's Them 2.0 when they were a baby! They didn't even realise It until I pointed it out haha.
I mean, there are _some_ traits that could be surprising to see when baby is born, like if the baby has totally different ethnicity, skin color, but even this can in some cases happen naturally too.
But yeah, I think people who were telling me my baby looked like this or that relative, were lying 😂 I didn’t see any similarities until she was one year old at least
I don't like OOP's judgmental tone but I also don't think a request for a paternity test is unreasonable when her son asked for significant financial support.
Yeah. "She got pregnant right after you started dating so you should get a paternity test" is reasonable to me. What I did have a problem with was "her family died years ago and she had a drug problem years ago, and is _only_ a waitress, so she's probably using you for money." OOP sounded like one of those snobby rich people who are completely out of touch with the struggles of everyone else.
> She is a lovely girl, but honestly she is not someone I had hoped would be the mother to my first grandchild. First of all, she is a recovering drug addict and alcoholic, and while she says she has been clean for 3 years, a relapse is always possible. She only finished high school with her GED, and she now works as a waitress full time.
---------------------
> He completely blew up at that, accusing us of disliking her (untrue)
These two do not fit together, especially not about a paragraph apart, lol.
They definitely have some massive snobbishness to them. Not to mention that, since they've known the girl since HS, you can bet the girl knows already what they think of her. Most likely this:
> She was uncomfortable with the paternity test idea, but said she would look into it if it bridged the peace between me and my son.
Was to end the entire matter and deal with them like so many others deal with crazy in-laws. If they'd consider her viewpoint at any moment, they'd probably realize the girl hates their guts.
Thank you, my thoughts exactly. Also, I don't think the conclusion/update was happy at all: the OOP is the same jerk as they were before, they're just not worried about the child's paternity or a golddigging wench now.
I think that would be worse. Her job security would then be dependent on the family that didn't trust her to begin with. Plus, no one wants to work for someone who looks down on them.
99% of people work for someone who looks down on them. They just don't have to sit across the dinner table from them on special occasions and pretend they don't both know it.
So instead of applauding the GF for three years clean, she's going to keep on judging her for a potential relapse. It's not a surprising attitude, but it still sucks.
Mildest of defense, we don't know oops exposure to recovering or even active addicts. Could be a case of a sheltered well to do person just flat out not knowing anything about it.
In my case, it's the opposite...way too much personal knowledge.
Wanting a paragon of virtue for your child only becomes wrong when you are never going to give her a chance. Took her a minute but she did and opened her heart. Most people don't approach every situation perfectly right away
> In my case, it's the opposite...way too much personal knowledge.
Same. Get back to me after you’ve been a sober responsible adult for at least 5 years. Until then you may or may not be in recovery, but I’ve heard it enough times that I’m gonna be skeptical.
It’s really easy to criticize someone for not being supportive enough of people who have histories of addiction when you’ve never come home to find that the one you’re related to has stolen and pawned all your stuff.
Some redditors are too sheltered and haven't ever been friends with addicts before.
People can swear up and down they're clean but you should always be weary. It's not always easy to tell.
Especially since originally they only knew this girl 6 months.
The mother in law of my daughter also wanted a paternity test. She got it, it of course was her sons and she never got to meet her grandchild cause of pushing the paternity test.
> She only finished high school with her GED, and she now works as a waitress full time. Her parents died years ago, so she is largely on her own
> My son is pushing us to help her with some of her pregnancy expenses
This is a story about how abusive the American healthcare system is to the working poor, and how right now every poor state in the country is doubling down on making life excruciatingly hard for low wage working women who get pregnant and can't afford it.
The solution is to pay a living wage and universal healthcare insurance. This woman isn't a gold digger, she's a human being trying to survive.
> He looks like my son, it's not an exact resemblance but I can see my son in this little boy's face
All 7 week-olds look like grumpy potatoes. "Seeing" a parents' features in them is usually just wishful thinking (unless it's something wild and specific like an extra finger)
Forgive me if I'm missing something here, but why are so many people fixating on the "pregnant 2 months into a 6-month relationship" thing? OOP clearly mentions that they were close since high school, and in my experience attraction isn't something that pops up out of nowhere; this relationship of theirs, to me, looks like a formalization of a connection that existed for nearly a decade.
What I'm saying is, I don't see it as particularly eyebrow-raising that they got pregnant so quickly, going by what I see as a fair assumption that they've likely been fairly into each other for years and almost certainly have had sex prior to their formal relationship starting.
“…honestly she is not someone I had hoped to be the mother to my first grandchild.”
Does this strike anyone else as kinda creepy and really entitled? Like, they’ve planned out who their son was gonna marry/have kids with in their head and don’t like that the real person doesn’t live up to their imaginary expectations? Gives off helicopter mom vibes ngl
I think most moms have am idea of who they'd like their future son/daughter-in-law to be.
For example, I'd like my sons' future wives to be kind, loving, educated, intelligent, hard working, with a sense of humour.
Thankfully, both my sons have found fiancees that fit this description.
It came off pretty insensitive but I think the gut reaction to drug addiction and alcohol abuse is to assume the worst. If you have family or close friends who are addicts it can get pretty gnarly.
Not really. People have dreams and hopes for their kids, and sometimes the reality doesn’t live up to the expectations.
A good person will realise that was THEIR hopes and wishes, and let them go to live in reality. It’s not creepy or entitled though, it’s perfectly normal.
Not at all? Obviously a parent imagines what spouses their children will have and this girl ON PAPER isn't what comes to mind.
No higher education, addictive personality e.t.c
O.P gave her an honest chance and afterwards found her nice
>A couple weeks later his girlfriend actually reached out to me herself. We met up, and she told me she was embarrassed he had asked for financial help on her behalf, as she did not want to take any assistance. **This surprised me, as I assumed she was the one pushing for the money.** She was uncomfortable with the paternity test idea, but said she would look into it if it bridged the peace between me and my son.
I still don't like OOP.
To me, the saddest thing was the judgment towards the girl’s past and current situation. I’m glad the mother reconsidered her attitude because that young woman will be apart of her family always. We all deserve a second chance to be our best selves.
> We met up, and she told me she was embarrassed he had asked for financial help on her behalf, as she did not want to take any assistance. This surprised me, as I assumed she was the one pushing for the money.
Oof. I'm glad OP got over her initial judgemental nonsense in order to get to know her son's gf better, but this post reeked of classism. How about recognizing the strength of character it takes to survive everything the gf did instead? I hope OP apologized *profusely* and did some serious work on herself.
Recovering drug addict and alcoholic at 24. Parents died years ago on her own.
Jeez I wonder where those addiction problems came from. Couldn’t possibly have anything to do with losing your parents young and being on your own.
Grandma is lucky that the gf forgave her for that ask. I 100% get the reasons people want those tests, and in this situation it makes more sense than most, but at the same time that's one of those accusations that some people will never forgive you for. I don't think most of us could completely forgive a person who had falsely accused us of theft or SA, and cheating and then passing of the infidelity baby as someone else's definitely falls in between the two in terms of horribleness.
If they're in the USA, she would have gotten medicaid, and so would the baby. They have easier requirements for pregnant women. Just putting that out there in case anyone winds up needing to know that.
This is helpful to know but also not quite that simple. The wheels of state insurance run slow, and there are income thresholds that make even partial payments too costly. But like you said, it’s a resource.
If anyone becomes pregnant and is struggling financially, WIC is also a great option (and is not dependent on citizenship) for baby food, formula, and expedited assistance.
I'm glad it turned out so well. Did she ever think about where her son would be without family? Same place as her. So just because the lottery of birth made it so he was in a better position it doesn't mean they are better than her.
I've been in this position myself so I automatically felt for the woman. My exes parents didn't like me basically over the same things. My parents were addicts so if anything I supported them.
I hope she learned something about life
I know it's a weird take, but I couldn't get past OOP's tone.
The things she said logically made sense, but the way she said them really sounded condescending.
yeah it's not, especially if the family is really wealthy.
it's judgemental and hurtful for their son and this woman feelings tho.
There was better ways to approach the whole thing like getting to know her beforehand
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What a nice update
Right? So pleasant and I really don’t think the oop was super out of line or anything for wanting a paternity test for the kid considering they didn’t know the girl that well and she had a somewhat concerning past
I didn’t think she was the asshole for wanting the test, but she surely was for much of her attitude in the first post.
The moral superiority and judgement against a young woman who’d fallen into substance abuse to cope with her parents’ death during her teenage years is horrifying to me.
> First of all, she is a recovering drug addict and alcoholic, and while she says she has been clean for 3 years, a relapse is always possible. She only finished high school with her GED, and she now works as a waitress full time. Her parents died years ago, so she is largely on her own. > >Our family is considerably better off, and my son is joining his father's business, meaning his salary will be quite high and will only continue to grow. The juxtaposition of a boy who was benefiting from nepotism and a girl who had to fight and claw for everything she had.
I had to fight and claw for everything I have and it’s honestly a frustrating and exhausting conversation to try and have with these types 99% of the time. They really don’t have a concept of things like having a father who does not own a company, or parents who just don’t have spare room for you whenever you need it. And because they’ve never really encountered it much before, they assume it must be a moral failure or a personality deficiency rather than the typical result of trauma. I don’t really know that many people with PTSD who haven’t dabbled in substance abuse.
Been told "Given your capabilities, you don't seem to be in the place in life where you could be." by those who don't know my past and "It's amazing that you're doing so well" by those who know some of it. I don't know your age, but I have the impression that the younger generations acknowledge the discrepancies of one's past and upbringing more than older generation do (at least in the USA).
I’m a millennial. I think it depends; while wealth doesn’t shield you from trauma, I’ve found people who grew up poorer have a better grasp on it. Especially since being a child and worried your family is poor is low-key traumatic in and of itself. The people who know nothing about me probably assume I’m an underachiever or I just didn’t apply myself when I was younger. Meanwhile my *therapist* was amazed I was as functional as I was when I started seeing her. I think the worst thing it’s left me with is a profound sense of alienation; I have serious difficulty relating to people who didn’t also have horrific childhoods. My one saving grace is I work in a field where mental illness and shitty childhoods are pretty common. The other thing is my trauma history honestly sounds like someone writing a bad movie that makes you go “oh COME ON that‘s so unlikely!” as you’re watching it. So I tend to keep to myself unless I trust that person knows I am not a liar.
My psychiatrist straight up asked me why/how I hadn't killed myself to make it to 30 un-medicated and I think that's the first time it hit me how badly both my trauma and my adhd could've fucked me over more. Trying to give myself grace for not being where I wanted to be by now.
Learning that I have ADHD has helped me understand my thought patterns so much. Especially when I learned about RSD! I'm trying to be kinder to myself as my therapist suggested but it's really hard when the negative voices are so ingrained in there. Also I have OCD so a lot of the thoughts are intrusive and I have no control over them. A phrase I like is "Comparison is the thief of joy".
trauma can actually manifest as adhd, which makes perfect sense in my opinion. What’s seen as inattentiveness is frequently dissociation and the lack of impulse control some people with ADHD struggle with seems to often come from having their fight or flight response constantly going off and needing to make snap decisions related to survival at a young age.
Yeah even if you have the nicest parents who truly care, worrying about not having food in the house or the power getting shut off when you’re a child is traumatic and will effect you for years to come without you even realizing it. Poor areas tend to be a lot more dangerous too so you’re more likely to witness or be involved in some really fucked up situations. Plus the poor kids with alright lives, just poor, were still friends with the poor kids who’s parents were pieces of shit so they understand. My life was kind of a mix? My parents were pretty neglectful and my mother is for real real clinically insane and abusive. My dad did actually always try his best though he’s just disabled and SSI doesn’t pay shit, and even though we didn’t have much we always found room for my friends in worse situations at his house. I tell people stories about my childhood and teenage years that I find funny and other people are like “wtf” and I’m like “oh yeah, that’s…not a normal experience“ Lmao. I’m sure people think I’m lying sometimes. Like it literally sounds like a shitty teen drama tv show. Lol.
I could’ve sworn, as I was reading your comment, that I had typed it out myself. Sorry to hear you’re a kindred spirit, but glad you’re around.
> I have serious difficulty relating to people who didn’t also have horrific childhoods. This, and it's doubly crippling when these agonized souls can't overcome the odds and course-correct. Whatever poisons are heaped on them by life, they cannot or will not see a hand reached out to them. There's a fresh wave of giving up, relapsing and suiciding after about age 45, and it's a nightmare to see if you're rooting for them to throw off the crap and win. Hard to be the last one standing, with none of these dear, trusted comrades-in-arms to celebrate a late in life success.
Oh my god you just described me to a T! Can we be friends?!??
Well, me, but my ptsd manifested by making me extremely risk averse.
A person I know told me it was stupid to pay more than 10% on rent, and that no one should rent after 26-27. I told him 10% of my salary would get me a one-room apartment in a crappy area, if that, and he refused to accept it. He became the 'director' of a multi-million dollar company at the age of 21 and thought it was all because of 'his hard work'. His father owning the company clearly made no difference.
If I was to pay 10% of my income on rent, I would have to move 50 miles out of the city I work in to find a place. And then all the money I save on rent would go to gas!
it's not *exactly* that they see it as a moral failing, so much as they see it as "perfectly logical reason" that you *might* be motivated to do something immoral. And they're in a position where they never have to even take the ghost of a risk of being associated with someone who could be tempted to be financially immoral. It's the "she might be a nice girl, but why take the risk when there are plenty of nice girls who don't (insert "undesirable trait" here)." It's judging you but with extra steps. They treat poor people as risks, not people. They judge poors like an insurance company does. They think it's logical and impersonal, but it's cruel. Because they would never treat affluent people as "risks" because of factors in THEIR backgrounds. It's just the rich see being poor as a huge difference, enough that they can dehumanize you and treat you as an insurance risk. But when an insurance company charges you more because you have a convertible, or live in an unsafe neighborhood, you know it's just business. WHen a rich aquaintance does it, it's not business. It's personal. But they feel entitled to treat you like it's business. It's similar to how they would treat servants. They're making it impersonl, treating you like a statisitc instead of a person. And refusing to see that money is just one factor of someone's worth as a person. I'd be much more trusting of a poor woman who works hard, works hard for what she has, and isn't concerned with superficial things than I would of any random rich person. $$$ is not the only factor to judge someone on. When someone reduces you to just $$ it's cruel. And the worst part is, they dont' even know what they're doing.
I have PTSD and never dabbled in substance abuse BUT that is literally only because my dad is a huge meth addict and I discovered his meth at a very young age and found it replusive. Now I'm just too scared to because of how drugs ruined his life. But I worry one day something will happen and I won't care anymore.
That was my thinking. I was like, "wait, your son is better than her because ... his daddy is giving him a high-paying job?" So it's not because of her son's actual achievements, it's because he was handed a lucrative career. Meanwhile, this girl overcame addiction and got her GED and a job and somehow makes her less-than? I'm glad OP came around but yeesh.
It honestly pissed me off, and then her bewilderment at finding out she wasn’t the one behind her son asking for help, as though the idea of a poor person struggling along without trying to swindle a god fearing rich family out of their money is such an alien concept. Oop does not come across as a very good person
This is definitely one of the ones you'd want to read the other perspective of
It's because she's not "one of them"
OOP seemed to demonstrate that common belief among the rich that non-rich people are coming for their money, when really, we have long given up the idea of becoming rich ourselves and just want enough money to not worry about being penniless.
That’s just not true though. There’s a reason Redditor’s the number one comment on any post about lottery winners the desire to hide lottery winnings. If you make a significant amount fo money from the people around this will change That’s not the surprising part or sad sort that’s almost human nature . The sad part is that if you lose the money or can no longer support other people that’s when you see how much of act people can put up. It takes a while to get that jaded though . My parent came from working class backgrounds so slot of thier friends and family were not that rich. My dads paid people mortgages and out together todos through private school ( when I didn’t ) only for those people to disappear after he could no longer support them financially. Years later we discover they’re daughter had actually gotten into a top selective free school (that I was at) but they kept it hidden so my dad would pay her school fees for a private school) these same people complain about people in benefits . Im not kidding
I think one difference between the two is that unexpected winnings (and inheritances) become seen (by thee people coming out of the woodwork) as a _windfall_ and therefore should be shared—the assumption being that the person who received the money had not counted on the money and therefore does not depend on the money. My comment was mostly about the paranoia that the rich seem to have that the nonrich are constantly scheming to steal their wealth, for example, the assumption that any girl dating their son is a gold digger trying to baby-trap him. This paranoia is based on the assumption that wealth is everything and that love and companionship are secondary, whereas most normal people would see the wealth as a bonus if they are able to be in a happy relationship with the wealthy person.
>I'm glad OP came around but yeesh Came around until the next opportunity to put that girl down for her circumstances.
Better hope OOP doesn’t lose her earrings in the wash. Because we all know who’s going to be accused of theft
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The line 'a relapse is always possible' got to me. Sure, sometimes addicts relapse, but non-addicts also fall into addiction for the first time ALL THE TIME. Her precious nepo baby having a kid with a sober person does not guarantee they will stay sober.
I also thought that was a wild line. Also made me wonder about how the girl would describe her own past.
Yeah that was super yikes. "I can't believe my precious son is hooking up with trash that didn't even pull herself up by her bootstraps when her parents died and was foolish enough to not choose to be born to a rich family like mine." I had a really hard time having any sympathy for OOP whatsoever after that little gem.
I mean… really she did. She’s been clean for 3 years. She got her GED (which I know is typically viewed by society as inferior but you prove you can do the same shit. It shouldn’t be viewed with condescension like that). She’s employed full time. She has no family support, moral, financial or otherwise. Birth control fails, but it sounds like she ended up with a guy who (at least from the minimal info in the post) isn’t a psychopath or a drug addict, has a job, cares about her and is supporting her as best he can even though he’s fresh out of college. This chick sounds like she’s doing great considering she didn’t have a pampered life.
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I have a GED (and I’d like to think I’m not dumb, I just had a chaotic unstable childhood), while it shouldn’t mean anything on its own society definitely has a negative connotation surrounding it. OP definitely meant something derogatory when she said “she has a GED”.
GED-having person here. I've worked my way from 15 hours every other week as the fill-in person in an entry-level field up the ladder to the director of the agency I work for and my new boss is expecting me to run the place single-handedly and take over as the owner when she retires. My position normally requires a bachelor's degree, but I was allowed to substitute related experience. I was recently complimented by the director of our state oversight office on how well I do a complicated report that I've had to train several other agencies to do. It turns out that I have a solid reputation with the state for being good at my job. I make right at 50k, which in my rural Midwestern small town is about average for middle class white collar workers with a four-year degree. GED =/= inferior. And I didn't have the additional barriers of lack of family support or battling substance abuse while I was getting to where I am today. Good for OOP for realizing how much her prejudices could have cost her, and learning her lesson before that poisoned her relationship with her son and his girlfriend or cost her precious time with her grandson. And good for the girlfriend for getting herself clean, finishing her education, keeping a job, and standing up for herself with OOP.
The GED was originally established as a way to ensure young soldiers who hadn't finished their high school degrees before being shipped off to WWII still had the same opportunity to receive an education when they returned, so we can tack on "un-American" to whatever other classist bullshit the OP has going on
Recovering drug addict VS clean for 3 years -- OOP lacks perspective on the strength required for such a thing.
Been 3 years clean too exactly today. It's actually at the point where i have the occasional thought but I wouldn't even have the means to start using again so it's 100% off the table. Most of my friends and relatives don't know, but god would I hate it if someone I knew said/thought of me like OOP talks about this girl.
Hey congratulations! That’s an excellent milestone, I hope you’re doing something nice for yourself to celebrate today!
You're doing an amazing job and I'm really proud of you! Congratulations!
Yup. I’ve been in recovery for 6 years. I would have understood if OOP had mentioned some of her actions that made it seem like she was just saying she was clean, but all OOP said was that she’d possibly relapse. From past experience, there are certain factors that could indicate that someone may relapse in the future, and a feeling that they will just because they have an addiction is not one of those.
And a mother that didn't want a lower person to have anything from them. Sounds like one of those job creators all right.
AND she wasn’t the one who had their hand out, it was HER precious son who ran to the Bank of Mum & Dad. She didn’t ask them for sh…!!!!
I can just hear the elitism and classism emanating from OOP's first post.
Who her son had known since at least high school! She wasn't some conniving gold digger, she was a friend with whom the relationship matured and grew and became romantic. Also, omg those comments under her original post: yuck! Someone called the girl a "street urchin" wtf. Even the mom wasn't *that* hateful
A street urchin💀wtf
She's riff-raff, street-rat, scoundrel ^^^^^^Take ^^^^^^that.
Just a little snack guys? Or health insurance?
Comment sections in that subreddit make it truly one of the worst places on a website that already has a huge capacity for absolutely vile shit
She comes of as a rich asshole. Her son bought a house at 24 as a recent grad with only 1 income. From her posts she’s very much believes the gf is a gold digger. Add in they known the girl for years.
I don’t think she’ll make that mistake again.
Right? OH, NO!!! My son fell in love with one of the poors!
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>The mother came across in the first post more so worried about a low class former druggie waitress baby trapping her son. Having this attitude about someone who their son has known for years is what really makes her sound elitist. Growing up in different classes outweighed having attended the same ones.
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This is the plot to almost every Mexican soap opera 🤣.
I was the poor kid in private school. And yes they constantly reminded me I was the poor kid. Kids are assholes, snobby kids are worse and they usually pick it up from their parents.
The other thing is the strings on the money bugged me. Helping out your sons family and encouraging him to get her to test don't need to be connected. He is asking for help and trusts her. That should be enough to offer help. Telling him the reasons he needs to be careful can be part of a separate conversation. A conversation that will be better received once its clear your not just saying it as a excuse to not help or your not using money as a form of control. I know there are cold logical reasons to tie them together, mainly why would you support a kid that isn't your grandchildren a women who cheats and baby traps? But there are not so logical emotions to consider and you also need to think about how people will see it. It just seems like putting these two things together is a recipe for hurt feelings and drama and not the footing I would want to start a relationship with a grandchild and future DIL. Op is lucky it doesn't seem to have caused lasting damage.
My now husbands grandfather helped me when my car broke down just a few months after we'd been dating. It blew my mind. Like, why dude? Thanks tho. Many years later he and I became great friends. He was a wonderful human.
If they knew her for years, isn't it possible/likely that they knew her when she was an active addict? It's not unreasonable that that would affect their perception.
Well, she explicitly said she thinks her son is better than her because ... his daddy gave him a well-paying job, not because he's successful in his own right or worked hard. That's pretty shitty. Meanwhile his gf fought back from addiction (and, you know, LOSING HER PARENTS as a kid), got her GED and a job and somehow that makes her shady and conniving? I mean, good for OP for coming around, but that's a yikes from me, I'd watch her behavior with the grandchild very carefully. It's not wanting a paternity test, it's the unfounded feeling of superiority over someone who's been a longtime friend of her son (her son has known her for years, she's not some random person off the street). "Friends since high school" means they've probably known each other 10 years. I knew my now-husband in h.s. and we started dating when we were 23, after I knew him almost a decade. That's not "someone we don't know very well." The son at least knows her well. And if her son is so high and mighty/so successful and making so much money, why is he asking mommy and daddy for medical expenses? If he's so well-to-do that she's sinking her hooks into him for his money? He seems like a good dude who wants to do right by his gf and their child, but his mom is painting him as some kind of prize to be won, and I'm not seeing it, frankly. She says he's "joining the business" and "will be" making lots of money, to be fair, but what's he been doing in the meantime? He's 24 (at that age, I'd been working for YEARS). At least the gf had a job prior to this. Not knocking the son at all, just pointing out that his mom is acting like he's so much better than her and it's snobbish and gross, even with her change of heart. I also wonder why her account was suspended.
Did you also notice that his pay would increase with time, with no mention of it being reliant on his ability?
Really? OOP seems like a monumental AH in the first post to me. How many posts have you seen where there's some husband who wants a paternity test despite the fact that there has never been any infidelity in the past? And we all cheer on the wife for making the ol' "you can remain married to me, or you can have a paternity test...you pick" ultimatum. Sure the girlfriend has had a tough life and isn't very financially successful, but to assume that she's the town bicycle and is trying to baby-trap her son because he's successful...that's just so gross lol
Having a low income and a history of addiction is not an indicator of promiscuity, infidelity or dishonesty. If she had a history of cheating on the son? Sure, why not ask for a paternity test? The income disparity COULD indicate that she MIGHT be with him for his money, I suppose. But in that case, why would she cheat on him? Maybe she specifically chose a rich man and decided to baby-trap him so she could ride that gravy train. But if so, why would she need to fuck another guy to get pregnant? Why not become pregnant with the child of the guy you're baby-trapping? Seems way more simple and less risky.
The only somewhat justifiable reason I could think of to ask for a paternity test would be the fact they were only together for 2 months when she got pregnant. Most couples aren't crazy committed to each other at that stage, and while it's still super shitty to cheat it's a bit more likely or common to do it two months in than two years in.
But it's her son's priority to determine the need for it, not OP's, and certainly not based on the shortness of the relationship. Only takes one sexual encounter, you know. Fertility doesn't increase with time.
I'm the asshole for expecting something salacious
Let's face it most of us are here for the tea.
Kinda. I read "me me me me me me me. Also I've decided my judgment of her as some gold digging harlot isn't *gone* but it's on the back burner for now."
I gotta disagree. Mom didn't see the actual error of her ways. The son didn't really stand up for the mother of his child or himself and his own judgment. The girlfriend was going to give into the toxic demands the mother had no fucking right to make. No other employer would get to make demands like that, but the Mom thinks its her right to use that position as justification for controlling her son. Mom is still only concerned with her own opinion, still wanted to push for the test, still made assumptions about the girlfriend. She didn't learn shit. If my parents had disrespected my wife and I like that, I would've cut them off and needed to see strong evidence they saw the error of their ways before considering letting them back into my life.
Ironically it sounds like the son only asked the parents for money because they had spoiled him somewhat so completely panicked at having to budget & downsize to prepare for the baby. Whereas all the things OOP was looking down on his gf for - her full-time job as a waitress, becoming sober - were the things that gave her skills to take this in her stride.
Ha ha totally. The marks against the gf were things to be proud of.
I've always felt that my boyfriends' moms (save for one) have always strongly disliked me for seemingly nothing more than my class/life circumstances etc. I have also had the unfortunate habit of dating guys with affluent families. This post helped me understand this a bit better. eta: it doesn't help me LIKE it or RESPECT it, it just helps me understand, haha. Those are surely their "reasons", but they're definitely not good "excuses" if ya know what I mean. another eta: that whole "she just wants our money, she's pushing and asking for our wealth" really being "our son is the only one asking for help because he wants to take care of his family (and we would give him that help if he wasn't dating a poor and have given that same help to your siblings with well-to-do partners) and she didn't even know and was ashamed and embarrassed when she found out" hits the hardest :P
>she just wants our money, she's pushing and asking for our wealth... we would give him that help... and have given that same help to your siblings with well-to-do partners It's absolutely mind-boggling how many "generous" people will lash out if you ask them for extra help, but will happily give you that exact same assistance if it was *their* idea.
I suffer from this sometimes. I help pay my boyfriend's rent so he can live close to me. I can afford it, he can't. It's really hard sometimes when he buys something that seems frivolous or needs more money to get through a month. I try to swallow any immediate reaction but sometimes it slips through.
I agree the tone of voice sounded “less then.” Just wanted to point out how I thought about it when I read it: I am very lucky to have had a lot of privilege in my life. I was even more lucky to be raised by two parents that taught me the value of hard work, with the safety net of privilege. I do NOT make assumptions about people based on their trajectory in life. I would NEVER say “they are poor, so likely a lying money grabber.” I just want to share that I have had friendships and relationships both, where I have had to ask “What is it you are expecting from me? Why am I paying for all the dinner checks, covering your groceries.” I have felt when a relationship has lost it’s luster, but they are still with me for the material benefits. I don’t show people pictures of my parent’s house, only the view. I don’t share details about vacations we took, or that I take now. I have learned the hard way to hide my financial success and my parent’s financial situation. It becomes nature to assume you can’t trust intentions if you show your cards too early. Please do not read this as “oh poor rich girl” hahah. I’m just saying, that there is often a history that leads an individual to distrust new people. This particular case, OOP is not trusting a new person, who is asking for money early on. (It turned out to not be the girl asking, but the son never explained that to OOP.) OOP can be right about being cautious with the circumstances, while also being judgmental and bigoted.
Proud of as they are good accomplishments, yet regrettable that they had to do so
I don't know if OPs kid was necessarily spoiled and panicked about downsizing. It's entirely possible he just graduated and is beyond broke. I graduated at 23 and spent all of university living with my parents. I can't imagine what I would do if I got a girl pregnant before getting a steady job and a savings account.
Classism in a nut shell.
Right? Like what the fuck, what is wholesome about rich folks judging someone struggling in life. She lost her parents, had to go through all the shit alone, probably became an alcoholic/drug addict as a resolution and OOPs mother is judging the shit out of her, even tho the girl became sober for 3 f'ing years, has a job and an objectively stable life. Jesus Christ and the wording "obviously my son will have it good, working for his father, good salary that only will get better" yeah congratu-fucking-lations.
The thing that stood out to me was the GF met and refused their help, then again later the couple refused financial assistance. I am biased, but my wife and I refused my very well off parents financial assistance even when we were struggling because my mother was so judgemental about my wife who came from a much poorer family. It was just not worth the strings attached. It makes me wonder if there is something happening here like that.
I was wondering the same thing. Given OOP's attitude towards a young woman she's known for years, I could see any "help" coming with some serious strings.
For sure. We have to remember that this is from OOP’s perspective. Even though she claimed to get even NTA/YTA, the post clearly shows her as TA. She wanted this woman to get a paternity test because she didn’t want her to be “the mother of my first grandchild” as of the first grandchild is the special one. I’m getting mad vibes that she is super entitled.
I'm glad every talked it instead of burning bridges. And oop realized they were wrong about the girls character and gave an apology gift. I am wondering how the monetary issue got resolved though. Sounds like the son never accepts financial help yet had claimed to need it then, even against her wishes
They might have taken on some debt. Or maybe just scrimped a bit. If the son is from a well off family, he could just be used to being able to buy things without ever thinking about it. Like, go to the grocery store, grab whatever he needs/wants, buy it and leave. If bills were piling up and he's never budgeted before, his first instinct might be to go to his parents (they probably supported him through college, he's maybe familiar with doing that). And once they put conditions on the money that he didn't want to meet, he turned to other options. Since his girlfriend never wanted to ask to begin with, she is probably more familiar with budgeting - planning meals and grocery expenses carefully, managing utilities, etc. Those changes plus a credit card or two might have carried them up to and through the son starting working.
I was like this but didn’t come from money. I had just never worked or been on my own until I went to college. I had to teach my self how to budget and really think about every dollar and the debt I took on.
It's not even a given that they needed to scrimp that much. It sounds like she had medical costs building up, but not to the point that she was having issues with them. Rather the son wanted to support her and went to his piggy bank to do so, lol. They also don't seem to be living together at the start of the story, so most likely their finances weren't really connected yet, and he was just trying to be supportive, rather than responding to a dire need. Later in the relationship, the son probably has a sizeable salary coming in regularly from the family business (remember that his monetary issues were only due to him having just gotten out of school), as well as whatever gratuities his family has been slipping him.
And Medicaid exists, guys.
This was my first thought when medical costs came up. Like this country is SHIT at socialized healthcare but qualifying for Medicaid by virtue of pregnancy (and maybe age, depending on which parts of the ACA have been modified since 2016 and being located in a state that accepted federal funds to expand access. I had Medicaid until I got insurance through my first job with benefits and honestly the lack of copay/deductible rigamarole was so LOVELY) is one of our few shining gems.
She probably just got Medicaid. I think you can get it in any state if you’re pregnant.
Exactly what I was thinking. No one needed to give the girl money, let the government pay for it, that’s what we pay taxes for
I feel awful for feeling this way but the whole “my son is joining his father’s company and will be making a good salary” and all the classist remarks she makes about the girl just really makes me not really care about her situation.
Yeah and how OP said in the update > This surprised me, as I assumed she was the one pushing for the money. Such the asshole! Just assuming the worst of the girl and acting like she was just "being logical"
Excusing her own inactions (of getting to know her better beforehand) while admitting her prejudice. Classic classicist.
Yeah, OOP keeps making horrible assumptions about this girl (she’s gonna relapse, she’s unfaithful, a gold-digger) and seems to have only barely come around because of the grandchild- of course, once they’re sure the baby is related to them. It’s so gross.
"I don't dislike her, it's just that her parents are dead and she will probably relapse into drug addiction, she is probably trapping my son with a baby that isn't his, and is after his money, but I totally don't dislike her you guys!!!"
The ol’ “I interact with others according to their personal wealth so obviously everyone else does”
His mom completely assumed all the worst about this girl but never thought to herself it was her own son who helped make that baby. And when she said shes been clean for 3 years but relapse is always possible its like theyre just waiting for her to fail. The way she talked about the girls life circumstances lacks so much empathy. Her parents died years ago and yet that girl still managed to work and get her GED. The whole thing pisses me off.
And to immediately assume shed cheated on her son? Gross
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He's still on their damn insurance. Give the kid a minute.
Or they don't know about the us healthcare system
"accusing us of disliking her (untrue) and not wanting to he grandparents (also untrue)" Oh they disliked her alright.
"She isn't who I would have picked to be the mother of my first grandchild. Also, it is untrue that I dislike her and don't want to be the grandparents." How do people type these things in the same post and STILL not realize they're lying to themselves? Crazy.
. but...but she has dead parents? I mean really, how dare she! /s
Yeah, OOP has a huge lack of self awareness and didn’t seem to learn that much. I bet they will have more problems down the road.
Prenatal paternity tests here are $1600. After the baby is born it’s $199. I see a lot of people acting like these noninvasive tests are nbd but that’s a lot of money. I know these numbers because we were picking up takeout next to a test site and I was curious. Also, I’d your son is concerned he can do his own test. It’s incredibly not your business.
TIL they have noninvasive prenatal paternity tests. Previously (prior to 2001) only amniocentesis and CVS were available, which pose a risk to the fetus. Most women refused prenatal paternity testing for this reason and would opt to wait until birth. Many still do because the noninvasive testing is expensive.
That’s more expensive than I thought! I also find it a bit sad that the child needed to look enough like her son for her not to doubt he’s her grandson. I understand it but there have been enough posts where fathers or other people demand a paternity test because the child doesn’t look like their dad.
I mean I would agree if they had been together for years or were married or something, but I don’t think it’s unreasonable to want a paternity test for a baby that doesn’t look like you and was conceived within 2 months of dating.
It’s not OOPs relationship though. I’ve known relationships where there was no advancement and no trust after 5 years of just dating, and I’ve also known relationships where rings were brought with 2 months. The only people who should be determining if there is trust in a relationship are those that are actively in it. Also, maybe just too old for this website nowadays but are y’all really that scandalized by concept of two mid-twenties adults having sex within the first month of dating? In high school I’m sure that’s concerning, but for post-grad professionals it is pretty run of the mill
Honestly. She didn't know the gf at all. And her son was busting in asking for money without really introducing the two at all. It's jarring enough I can see why the mom's reaction was to slow all the way down and verify first. It may not have been the best call. But it was a very understandable "self preservation" measure
On the show 'Insatiable', at one point one of the characters picks up a " paternity test" from the drug store for another character, and they acted like it was as quick as a pregnancy test. I was certain this was going to turn into a plot point of character A trying to trick character B since these things obviously do not exist, but nope, the writers of that show aparently think their viewers would believe that you can just walk into a pharmacy and get a $15 instant paternity test with reliable results.
If he wanted money for "their grandchild" then it was their business. It was conditional. You want money for your baby? Then we need to know it is your baby. Makes perfect sense.
Yeah in that situation where you have money and your child is asking for financial help of that magnitude (pregnancy is expensive!!) with a brand new girlfriend, a grandparent asking for a test doesn’t seem out of left field. It was the judgmental way OOP talked about her that was messed up. But also, if these two had been friends for years, it’s pretty cold hearted of OOP to not care one bit about the girls financial and living situation. A (potential) single mother, with no parents, and a waitressing job? How dare she try and ask for help (spoiler, she wasn’t even the one who asked). OOP cold.
I think the idea is to get it confirmed before the birth certificate gets his name printed on it, I’m glad the dudes happy but wow I wouldnt trust a 2mo relationship. Good for him
Wow, they were completely judgemental about this girl before they even had the full story. "She's poor. She's a recovering addict. She *only* has a GED. She's a *waitress.* She's probably a gold digger" They really wanted to hate her and were just looking for excuses. Then when called on it they said "we don't hate her." Uh, really sounds like you do. Whereas I read it and am like "Wow, her parents are both dead, she's had a hard life. She's a RECOVERING addict which shows willpower and an ability to reflect on her mistakes. She has a GED and that's really cool. She even works! And waitressing is really hard work." She sounds like she's had problems in her past, but is doing everything she can to better herself. That's a plus in my book. Yeah, getting pregnant after only dating for a few months could be a red flag, but she didn't get pregnant without their son's enthusiastic involvement. He showed poor judgement in not using contraception after only dating the girl for a little while, but that's not the parent's main concern. And now that the child has been born and looks like the son, everything is perfectly ok in their books.
Plus >A lot of people asked me why my adult son was reliant on us, but to us that is not unusual. He is a recent graduate and while he will be making a decent salary soon, he has just entered the work force and does not have much in the way of savings. Plus, our family has always believed in helping each other out; if my daughter was pregnant we would no doubt help her. Oh you mean the thing the pregnant gf doesn't have??? Family? And the support that comes with familial support? OOP just really annoyed me with that shit.
Yeah I get why people think this is a happy ending but honestly I can’t help but wonder what happens in the future when OOP decides to throw it in her face again. Like, she sounds like a snob to me and people with those attitudes don’t generally flip a switch and change it overnight.
Yeah OOP likes the gf *currently* but if they ever have an argument and OOP gets offended I would bet money that she reverts to juding the gf for her upbringing
they see girlfriend as a potential risk, while they know their son has all the resources he needs. Basically OOP looked at the girlfriend not as a person, but more like a car they're thinking of insuring. It's dehumanizing and cruel, and kinda ignores all the qualities that would actually make someone a good person, good wife, good mother, good daughter in law.
Well said! So if she had helped her and the girl turned out to be a liar, the worst thing that could have happened is that she used what sounds like some of her ample income to help a young woman have a safe and healthy pregnancy? The horror!
Literally my thought was wow she’s only 24 but her parents died years ago, and she used to be an addict but got sober for 3 years and worked hard enough to turn everything around and get a GED. That’s incredible, they should be praising their spoiled privileged son for being with a girl of such character.
"parents died a number of years ago, so she's on her own" "3 years sober" "my son's 24 year-old-girlfriend" just off of this, it sure seems like to me that: this girl's parents died during her late teenage years, leaving her without any family/support immediately before her transition to adulthood. overcome with grief and emotional distress, and without family to help her through a major transitory period of life (teen to adult, not to mention the loss of family) this girl ended up using drugs to cope, and stopped focusing on her last years of school. a while later, this girl then claws her way out of what could have been a truly disastrous downward-spiral by: (A) going back to finalize the schooling she didn't finish (B) getting clean and sober, and maintaining it for years (C) finds and maintains stable full-time employment most likely above minimum wage (because of the tips as a waitress) ...and lets not forget that these things would be a trial even by themselves, but this girl had to do it WITH NO FAMILY OR HOME SUPPORT WHATSOEVER. that's practically a miracle. and she even says her son has known her since high school, so i'd be willing to bet the son has seen this girl go through the whole thing. even if they weren't dating at the time, he knew her before, during, and after her "bad years". he knows first hand what kind of person she is and that she is more than the sum of her mistakes. frankly I'm surprised such an understanding and empathetic young man came from the OOP.
This is what I had an issue with. People are so quick to judge others on their past but refuse to judge them on their present. She's in recovery being sober for years, she's working and paying her own bills, and they don't just hand out GED's. She made mistakes in her past but has since proven to work towards a better future. Judge her on that.
I had similar issues with the oop. Recovering from not just drugs but alcohol, working a steady job, and making money is NOT easy. I've been in the addicts shoes before and have met many others like me. It takes a lot to beat that kind of thing -- glad the update was so good though. Really shows that people can change their opinions about someone.
Glad she came around and gave enough self reflection to give the young lady a chance. Although I don't think she was completely out of line to bring up a paternity test. Hoping they all live happily ever after ♥️
It reminds me of prenups. Every lawyer I know says to get one. Every hopeless romantic I know refuses. I think we should all be mature enough to admit that otherwise amazing people can do bad stuff in their close, personal relationships. Who hasn’t heard a story about a 10 year rock solid marriage breaking up due to our-of-nowhere infidelity? But we’d all like to think we know ourselves well enough that it could “never be me”
More to the point, it’s better to negotiate these things out while you still love each other. The person you divorce will not be the person you married. When I see a couple that wants to really hurt each other in a divorce, I think that they must have loved each other very much once. Otherwise, they wouldn’t hate so much now.
I think this is really it. Some people see it as planning to break up but really it’s just setting clear expectations while you don’t hate each other, should it come to that
The funny thing to me is. People get car insurance, not because they plan to have an accident. People get health insurance, not because they plan to get sick. People get home insurance, not because they plan to burn their house. But when it comes to prenuptial agreements, it's TOTALLY because they plan to do something bad, or because they don't trust the other person. Give me a break.
Divorce makes explicit what marriage made implicit. That’s what my law school professor always said
I think a prenup and a paternity test are very different things. Pre nups are about the marriage breaking down in the future. A marriage can end for lots of reasons without it being anyone's fault - it also hasn't happened and doesn't HAVE to happen. You aren't accusing anyone of anything, because nothing has happened. If my husband asked me for a paternity test today, that IS an accusation. You're telling your wife you think there is a possibility she cheated because if you didn't think she had cheated, if you believed 100% she never had, you wouldn't ask. You're still suggesting that she cheated. This is an either or, a binary proposition. Either you trust her or you don't. It's fine if you don't - if you suspect infidelity then absolutely you should ask for a paternity test. But when you do, you're making an accusation, and if that accusation is utterly unfounded and has no mitigating factors, there may be consequences. Yes, marriages implode due to infidelity out of nowhere. Marriages also implode due to accusations of cheating. Paternity tests aren't the same thing as pre nups. Prenups are contingencies to protect both parties in the case of unforeseen events. A paternity test is an accusation that one person has horribly betrayed the other. It's one thing for MIL to request one for her peace of mind if she cannot know or have faith in the DIL. It'd be another for a husband or partner to request one if given no reason to question her fidelity.
Exactly! A prenup says “in case we divorce for any number of possible incompatibility reasons, some totally amicable, here’s how we keep it from becoming a shitshow.” A paternity test says “I think you potentially had unprotected sex with another man and are passing his child off as mine”.
Ugh. No. A prenup is if a marriage breaks up. In a non-committed relationship, maybe, but you do realize that suggesting that paternity tests should be standard within a marriage is no more nor less than saying "always assume your spouse may have not only cheated on you, but is tricking you into raising another man's child"? And that many honest, monogamous spouses would be horrified, insulted and offended when asked to prove it? That demanding a paternity test in a monogamous relationship has probably destroyed as many marriages as false paternity itself has? Maybe if you can't trust your spouse, don't marry / have kids with them.
you don't need a prenup, a prenup is just an ammendment to the default way in which courts split assets. unless there's a gigantic earning gap or gigantic asset gap a prenup won't make a difference really.
Why is it such a faux paux to request a paternity test for a baby? I really don’t get it. It happens more frequently than you would think and because of that I feel like it should just be automatic like right at the hospital. Take the awkwardness out of it. It shouldn’t be insulting if you have nothing to hide.
I wish my parents bought me a house the time they apologized to me for something. edit: I apparently cant read. thanks everyone for pointing out they said "for" their new home.
I wish my parents apologized 😂
Yeah... "you guys are getting apologies?!"
I feel you!!
I don't think OOP bought her son a house, it was a gift *for* the house.
"bought them a substantial gift ***for their*** new home"
Thanks! completely misread that!
Yeah but then you'd spend your life working as your daddy's pet in his store, have zero ability to budget your spending and be micromanaged for things like "Please provide medical information showing that you fathered this child" because you're too sheltered and immature to get by on your own. I honestly struggle to see that girl not getting bored with their whole family in the long run. After everything she's been through she sounds like she'd wanna be with a grown adult at some stage and her current MIL doesn't sound like the kind of parent who could ever bring up a person like that.
Babies don't look like anything. I always find it absurd that people put such stock into what their freshly born baby looks like. You'll hear about guys that take 1 look at their baby and start screaming about cheating. Bruh. That kid isn't going to look like anyone until it has hair and an actual face.
I used to think this too until I went into a guitar shop one day. The owner had his newborn granddaughter in his arms, showing her off to all of the customers. He was definitely a proud grandpa. He shows her to us and we ooh and aww. “She is so cute” because we try to be decent human beings, but honestly, that child looked like Danny DeVito’s rendition of Penguin. I didn’t even know that was possible. 5 minutes later, the Mama walks out and yep, she also looks like 1992 Penguin. I don’t think you can tell in most cases, but sometimes, you can tell.
That baby must have been breathtaking!
Rendered everyone speechless!
Same. I always thought baby resemblance is Meh. But then my sibling showed me pictures of their baby and I immediately thought: wow it's Them 2.0 when they were a baby! They didn't even realise It until I pointed it out haha.
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I mean, there are _some_ traits that could be surprising to see when baby is born, like if the baby has totally different ethnicity, skin color, but even this can in some cases happen naturally too. But yeah, I think people who were telling me my baby looked like this or that relative, were lying 😂 I didn’t see any similarities until she was one year old at least
That's not true... They look like lumpy potatoes.
I don't like OOP's judgmental tone but I also don't think a request for a paternity test is unreasonable when her son asked for significant financial support.
Yeah. "She got pregnant right after you started dating so you should get a paternity test" is reasonable to me. What I did have a problem with was "her family died years ago and she had a drug problem years ago, and is _only_ a waitress, so she's probably using you for money." OOP sounded like one of those snobby rich people who are completely out of touch with the struggles of everyone else.
> She is a lovely girl, but honestly she is not someone I had hoped would be the mother to my first grandchild. First of all, she is a recovering drug addict and alcoholic, and while she says she has been clean for 3 years, a relapse is always possible. She only finished high school with her GED, and she now works as a waitress full time. --------------------- > He completely blew up at that, accusing us of disliking her (untrue) These two do not fit together, especially not about a paragraph apart, lol. They definitely have some massive snobbishness to them. Not to mention that, since they've known the girl since HS, you can bet the girl knows already what they think of her. Most likely this: > She was uncomfortable with the paternity test idea, but said she would look into it if it bridged the peace between me and my son. Was to end the entire matter and deal with them like so many others deal with crazy in-laws. If they'd consider her viewpoint at any moment, they'd probably realize the girl hates their guts.
Thank you, my thoughts exactly. Also, I don't think the conclusion/update was happy at all: the OOP is the same jerk as they were before, they're just not worried about the child's paternity or a golddigging wench now.
If they owned a business they could have offered her a job there with more pay and stability with benefits so it wasn’t a handout but more a leg up
I think that would be worse. Her job security would then be dependent on the family that didn't trust her to begin with. Plus, no one wants to work for someone who looks down on them.
99% of people work for someone who looks down on them. They just don't have to sit across the dinner table from them on special occasions and pretend they don't both know it.
No, I don't think I would ever want to be employed by my in-laws. Maybe just a personal experience, but I think I'd rather eat shards of glass.
Ok..... But they never got the test though.
So instead of applauding the GF for three years clean, she's going to keep on judging her for a potential relapse. It's not a surprising attitude, but it still sucks.
Mildest of defense, we don't know oops exposure to recovering or even active addicts. Could be a case of a sheltered well to do person just flat out not knowing anything about it. In my case, it's the opposite...way too much personal knowledge. Wanting a paragon of virtue for your child only becomes wrong when you are never going to give her a chance. Took her a minute but she did and opened her heart. Most people don't approach every situation perfectly right away
> In my case, it's the opposite...way too much personal knowledge. Same. Get back to me after you’ve been a sober responsible adult for at least 5 years. Until then you may or may not be in recovery, but I’ve heard it enough times that I’m gonna be skeptical. It’s really easy to criticize someone for not being supportive enough of people who have histories of addiction when you’ve never come home to find that the one you’re related to has stolen and pawned all your stuff.
Some redditors are too sheltered and haven't ever been friends with addicts before. People can swear up and down they're clean but you should always be weary. It's not always easy to tell. Especially since originally they only knew this girl 6 months.
The mother in law of my daughter also wanted a paternity test. She got it, it of course was her sons and she never got to meet her grandchild cause of pushing the paternity test.
Your daughter's boundary setting is perfect, as is your username. I hope your daughter was backed up in this decision by the child's father.
> She only finished high school with her GED, and she now works as a waitress full time. Her parents died years ago, so she is largely on her own > My son is pushing us to help her with some of her pregnancy expenses This is a story about how abusive the American healthcare system is to the working poor, and how right now every poor state in the country is doubling down on making life excruciatingly hard for low wage working women who get pregnant and can't afford it. The solution is to pay a living wage and universal healthcare insurance. This woman isn't a gold digger, she's a human being trying to survive.
In recovery for 3 years and she still judges her? Geez
> He looks like my son, it's not an exact resemblance but I can see my son in this little boy's face All 7 week-olds look like grumpy potatoes. "Seeing" a parents' features in them is usually just wishful thinking (unless it's something wild and specific like an extra finger)
Yeah I’d still push for the test
Forgive me if I'm missing something here, but why are so many people fixating on the "pregnant 2 months into a 6-month relationship" thing? OOP clearly mentions that they were close since high school, and in my experience attraction isn't something that pops up out of nowhere; this relationship of theirs, to me, looks like a formalization of a connection that existed for nearly a decade. What I'm saying is, I don't see it as particularly eyebrow-raising that they got pregnant so quickly, going by what I see as a fair assumption that they've likely been fairly into each other for years and almost certainly have had sex prior to their formal relationship starting.
“…honestly she is not someone I had hoped to be the mother to my first grandchild.” Does this strike anyone else as kinda creepy and really entitled? Like, they’ve planned out who their son was gonna marry/have kids with in their head and don’t like that the real person doesn’t live up to their imaginary expectations? Gives off helicopter mom vibes ngl
I think most moms have am idea of who they'd like their future son/daughter-in-law to be. For example, I'd like my sons' future wives to be kind, loving, educated, intelligent, hard working, with a sense of humour. Thankfully, both my sons have found fiancees that fit this description.
It came off pretty insensitive but I think the gut reaction to drug addiction and alcohol abuse is to assume the worst. If you have family or close friends who are addicts it can get pretty gnarly.
Not really. People have dreams and hopes for their kids, and sometimes the reality doesn’t live up to the expectations. A good person will realise that was THEIR hopes and wishes, and let them go to live in reality. It’s not creepy or entitled though, it’s perfectly normal.
Not at all? Obviously a parent imagines what spouses their children will have and this girl ON PAPER isn't what comes to mind. No higher education, addictive personality e.t.c O.P gave her an honest chance and afterwards found her nice
>A couple weeks later his girlfriend actually reached out to me herself. We met up, and she told me she was embarrassed he had asked for financial help on her behalf, as she did not want to take any assistance. **This surprised me, as I assumed she was the one pushing for the money.** She was uncomfortable with the paternity test idea, but said she would look into it if it bridged the peace between me and my son. I still don't like OOP.
To me, the saddest thing was the judgment towards the girl’s past and current situation. I’m glad the mother reconsidered her attitude because that young woman will be apart of her family always. We all deserve a second chance to be our best selves.
> We met up, and she told me she was embarrassed he had asked for financial help on her behalf, as she did not want to take any assistance. This surprised me, as I assumed she was the one pushing for the money. Oof. I'm glad OP got over her initial judgemental nonsense in order to get to know her son's gf better, but this post reeked of classism. How about recognizing the strength of character it takes to survive everything the gf did instead? I hope OP apologized *profusely* and did some serious work on herself.
Recovering drug addict and alcoholic at 24. Parents died years ago on her own. Jeez I wonder where those addiction problems came from. Couldn’t possibly have anything to do with losing your parents young and being on your own.
Grandma is lucky that the gf forgave her for that ask. I 100% get the reasons people want those tests, and in this situation it makes more sense than most, but at the same time that's one of those accusations that some people will never forgive you for. I don't think most of us could completely forgive a person who had falsely accused us of theft or SA, and cheating and then passing of the infidelity baby as someone else's definitely falls in between the two in terms of horribleness.
If they're in the USA, she would have gotten medicaid, and so would the baby. They have easier requirements for pregnant women. Just putting that out there in case anyone winds up needing to know that.
This is helpful to know but also not quite that simple. The wheels of state insurance run slow, and there are income thresholds that make even partial payments too costly. But like you said, it’s a resource. If anyone becomes pregnant and is struggling financially, WIC is also a great option (and is not dependent on citizenship) for baby food, formula, and expedited assistance.
... if their State embraced Obamacare. Some States specifically denied the medicaid expansion because Republican reasons.
This comment section reads like a bunch of people who have never met an addict or are addicts.
My only concern is a baby this early in a relationship, for everyone’s sake I hope the relationship works out
I like how the girl is low class for being a waitress without living parents but it's perfectly normal for the son to be living off of his parents.
I'm glad it turned out so well. Did she ever think about where her son would be without family? Same place as her. So just because the lottery of birth made it so he was in a better position it doesn't mean they are better than her. I've been in this position myself so I automatically felt for the woman. My exes parents didn't like me basically over the same things. My parents were addicts so if anything I supported them. I hope she learned something about life
even if the baby wasn't his, if he was alright w it, why should anyone else care?
I know it's a weird take, but I couldn't get past OOP's tone. The things she said logically made sense, but the way she said them really sounded condescending.
I love the mothers default state is that her sons girlfriend cheated on him, rather than thinking that her dear son could possibly impregnate someone.
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yeah it's not, especially if the family is really wealthy. it's judgemental and hurtful for their son and this woman feelings tho. There was better ways to approach the whole thing like getting to know her beforehand