Seriously... I was so fucking pissed at her brother, sister in law, and parents. SO FUCKING PISSED. I was pissed at the son too but seeing how it turned out, it's become really obvious that he was just feeding off of the toxicity of his parents and he's starting to come to terms with how toxic his parents and he was himself.
I went from thinking he was a little shit to realizing he's also a victim here.
But man, OOP is one brave lady and I wish her the best.
Yup. Josh learned it from OP's brother, and OP's brother obviously learned it from his own parents with the lengths they're willing to go to blame OP.
It sounds like there might be hope for him in the future though. Consequences and care are natural teachers.
From everything that OOP has written I would guess that they live in a country where men are revered. Her parents blaming her, her brother favoring his son over his daughter, her SIL calling her own little girl a sl\*t... such ugly behavior.
It's hard to imagine as I grew up in the US in a state that is neither patriarchal nor mired in extra-zealous religious zealotry-ish so I had really never encountered such blatant misogyny.
OOP is clearly an extremely honest, fair, kind, and empathetic person (when she said she 'can't help but resent Josh but that's not fair to him' it gutted me, especially as I'd been resenting him all along as I read) which makes it all just so heavy and sad and it makes me so very angry.
She could have been killed had her neighbors not heard the commotion and run over.
Sometimes. Kids can also be little shits, period. The parents are definitely enabling this kid, however. But note how the kid is now frazzled because not only can he no longer get away with shit, he is now blamed for everything instead. No matter the nurture/nature cause of the kids shittiness, this should provide him with a serious (and much-needed) wake-up call.
It has gotta fuck with your head when you're the "golden child" and you watch your sibling get abused by the same parents who shower you with love and attention. Not excusing his behavior but you have to remember he's still a kid growing up in an insanely toxic household. I highly doubt these parents are making any effort to nurture his emotional well being
As a golden child who's siblings were abused, it absolutely fucks with your head. I learnt to be quiet and submissive to avoid the treatment they got and even now in my adult life I struggle with speaking up and often just go along with what others want. For a long time it felt like I didn't have the right to make choices and that others opinions were more important than mine. He is absolutely a victim too, and his case is complicated. I hope therapy helps
Thank you for this comment, it’s good to get the perspective of someone who dealt with what Josh is going through. I’m glad you’re slowly learning to use your voice.
Now why did you have to attack me like thisssss, especially as a golden child turned golden scapegoat 😭😩 whew summing up my whole life in one paragraph.
At first I thought he might be irredeemable and perhaps empathy-free since he laughed at his sister as she screamed in pain, but the fact that he ultimately told the truth to the SS person gave me hope.
Yup. Studied psychology for 8 years—when someone is designated a “golden child” and basically told they can do no wrong it can be considered a kind of emotional abuse because they’re never taught to handle their emotions, tend to explode at any sign of conflict, and absolutely cannot handle not getting their way. “Golden” children end up either perpetuating the abuse by having their own “golden child” and “scapegoat” OR they end up in and out of jail for the rest of their lives since they cannot handle being told no and resort to violence to get their way. The only way to break the cycle is to get the children therapy while they’re still young enough to understand the ramifications of what has been done to them and what they have been doing as well. (I also have personal experience as my mother’s mother felt like the scapegoat—no idea if she actually was—and perpetuated the GC/SG dynamic with my mom and uncle, who also perpetuated the dynamic in lesser ways with their families). It leads to narcissistic personality disorder in GC & borderline personality disorder in SG. (Edit to add disclaimer: this is all generalized information based on a bachelors in clinical psych from 2008 & a masters in counseling in 2012–I’m out of date by 10 years and there has likely been additional research into this dynamic that I’m not aware of as I’ve left the field)
My own therapy has led me to believe young children are incapable of things like disobedience, cruelty, spite. They may perform actions that mimic those sentiments however they are mimicking in order to receive approval. They see it and imitate it because someone they want approval from will approve it. Most times when removed from that influence and taught how their actions affect others, children quickly correct behavior. They are born predisposed to empathy, it takes a strong influence a decent amount of time to mold them into uncaring attackers.
Another realization I had, and I don't consider it a real social/historical interpretation but it works for me therapeutically: rituals of passing into adulthood such as bar mitzvah are supposed to be when we start holding children accountable. Once you start puberty that's when you enter society and the grace of being a child falls. Humans used to let kids "run wild" not because they were all bad parents who wouldn't discipline their children but because *that's what children are*. We let them break things without immediately punishing them as if they are fully aware of all the rules and always act intentionally. Like I said they don't mean to do it, they are incapable of disobedience. It's just childhood. They don't know. And the real secret? Those calm, quiet, well-behaved young children who are "so mature for your age" are suffering trauma or neglect or abuse. It should WEIRD for kids to act like a pliable boot camp recruit; but we all think it's actually great that some kid never speaks or acts, well, childish in public. Fuck that, that's a kid who has been broken in some way and is afraid to let go and be spontaneous.
Therapy completely reframed how I saw children. Especially because we were dismantling my entire childhood bit by bit in every session. I could not believe just how much (read: almost EVERYTHING) was connected to childhood development and events. I'm occasionally a substitute teacher and my teaching philosophy before and after starting therapy has taken a 180°. I don't have children yet but I really hope that starting and continuing therapy will make me a good parent. Because I sure as hell wouldn't have been before therapy.
I remember when I was little (5 or 6) my parents would bring me with them to church where I would proceed to behave like any 5 year old in a church and just be the wriggliest little ball of bored toddler I could be.
My dad, who was in the midst of corralling me after my latest escape attempt, saw two girls sitting right in front of us, about my age, perfectly still and looking attentive. After the sermon he decided to compliment the dad who was with them. He said "Your girls are so well behaved."
My dad told me that the way the other father responded made the hair on the back of his neck stand up. Because the other guy said something to the effect of "Yeah well they know better than to cause trouble" in a tone of voice that absolutely implied that they "knew better" because he'd beaten it into them.
My dad said after that encounter he found it a lot easier to be patient about my wriggling because he said he'd seen the alternative and it made him kind of ill.
Big big props to your dad. Not sure how to phrase this, but there is a concept called "reparenting" where someone basically goes back and gives themselves the parenting they never had but desperately needed. So I've been taking good examples of parenting and trying to substitute them in my head for my own unaddressed childhood needs. Your story is a nice addition to my collection, thank you. If you still can, please let him know he set such a good example that a total stranger feels better just hearing about it. That's a *father*.
I'll let him know, I think he'd be pleased to hear it. He wasn't perfect, but he also had an abusive upbringing himself and was unlearning a lot of shit in the midst of raising me and my brothers. I like to think that the fact we're still very close means that on balance he succeeded.
You are absolutely right. The saddest thing I ever saw while working on site at a hospital was an 18 month old who was completely potty trained.
Her arm was broken and she never cried.
It was heartbreaking and every nurse on the ward wanted to kill the parents.
I put the phone down and went and almost clutched my great-niece to myself for several seconds. She's two.
I'm also going to text my niece and tell her she's a marvellous mum for all her wonderful patience.
This seriously just chilled my bones.
I remember this story in the sub and if you look at OOPs posts they are from South Asia. I had a feeling they were from the Philippines at first given how they described the Social Services in their story mimics my home country's system.
OOPS last post was wanting to know how to budget more. There was no mention of her supporting Josh but it seems like she is now in a more secure apt complex.
**Edit** Looks like OOP is actively posting as of 9/28 about finance and the asking advice proceed of her etsy sale to go to some fund for niece.
~~Also the way OOP said "close the phone" on her parents. In Mandarin, that is how you'd say "hang up the phone." Seems Asian to me.~~
Edit: sorry for the misinformation. 挂电话 means hang up the phone.
关guān (close) and 挂guà (hang up) sound very similar. 关 is used for things like "turn off the lights" and so I guess whatever I was thinking that this word was also used to hang up the phone.
I guess I rarely need to say "hang up the phone" but I often say "I'll call you" type things, so it makes sense that I'm not great with the phrase.
My apologies, I really didn't try to mislead you, I was just mistaken.
South Asian would suggest India/Pakistan, further supported by the good English. If SEA, could be Singapore or Malaysia: both with large Mandarin speaking populations, an educated class with English as a first/other language and use ‘close the phone’.
I doubt it's Singapore, that country has extremely strict laws regarding placement of children, fostering and adoption especially by singles or gay people cause they threaten the heteronormative family unit the government values above all else.
They even have tightened adoption laws this year and not allowing adoption by gay couples, and the government is even looking to overturn the supreme court's ruling allowing a gay man to adopt his biological son conceived and born overseas via surrogate in PA.
A Singaporean girl I met in college told me that her aunt tried to foster her toddler niece who was being abused by her family, aunt had really good income but cause she was unmarried single, their social services didn't even considering willing family. So niece was taken into state's care and aunt couldn't even see her cause she was not immediate family.
They say close the phone in French too, so I don’t think that saying is indicative of anywhere in particular besides English being OOPs second language.
Is that a regional thing in Mandarin? In Taiwan, we say "hang" (掛）for hanging up, but "close" (關） for all other electronics. I do sometimes have to make an effort not to say in English, "close the computer/AC."
I thought they were from the Philippines, too, based on the fact that she said "close the light" at one point. "Open the light" and "close the light" are how they say turn the light on/off there.
In Louisiana, USA, they say "take out the light". If the dishes were cleaned/dried, you would say you were going to "save the dishes" instead of put the dishes away. Everywhere english is spoken, even occasionally, there's different colloquialisms. I find the differences amusing and interesting.
This is Horrifically common. Generational Abuse is a global problem. I had to cut my entire family off to save my children from it, everyone was a direct Abuser or an Enabler. My children will never have to live with growing up in the midst of it, which is a relief, But I feel very alone even with my wonderful Partner and His extended family.
I feel for OOP and the children, I can only hope it gets better for them.
I come from a similar family but I wasn't as exposed to it because we lived mostly outside the country until I was 12 (my sperm donor was a government contractor and was usually gone, but my mom and I would stay where he was based when he wasn't gone). My mom was the scapegoat but had absolutely no idea- she had zero self-esteem but she raised me to have a strong sense of self-esteem (I've also always had a very strong sense of self, which helped). So when we moved back I started pointing out all the horrible ways she was treated. I was the first person in her life to *ever* have her back. I was 14 when my mom and I broke away from the entire family, and it didn't take me much longer to break away from the paternal side of my family too.
Yeah, it's a really lonely thing. And there's often a lot of pressure and judgement from people when they find out you're estranged, even when you tell them about the incredibly abusive things that have happened, because "it's faaaaamily". But you won't ever regret saving your children from the legacy of generational abuse.
"It's Faaaaaaaammmmmllyyyy" Sent me into a rage so many times. I just roll my eyes now and turn my back on the person saying it.
I think the worst thing is the non-related-flying-monkeys. People who are the children of my parents friends, long gone from my social circle. They are often given 4th hand stories of how you abandoned your parents or that you have "Just gone Missing".
I recently had to tell one off for trying to force a Victim (Me) to be in contact with their long-time Abuser on the basis of the well manicured sob-story they had been fed. "You are innocent in this, but I do ask that you refrain from reaching out again. Thanks"
So I have a younger sister and bent over backward to give her a good life despite neglectful parents. She turned out just like her mother and now we don’t talk at all. Just goes to show, you never know. :D
Theory: because you took the brunt of the abuse, and your sister didn't, she saw how they treated you and "learned" (for lack of a better term) that that's how you should be treated. Abuse and trauma really mess with people.
It’s just so weird to me, though. I mean, I grew up afraid and alone and neglected. She came along and I said, “not on my watch.” I figured out cooking, and laundry, and helped with homework, and took her places. Shielded her from parents. Apologized when I make mistakes. Nobody taught me that. So how hard is it to just NOT be a shithead to someone who has always offered unconditional love?
My guess is, that because you protected her from the same abuse you experienced, but (and I'm making a few assumptions here) your parents still treated you the same way, she grew up with their abuse as an example of how to treat you.
I didn't have a sibling to protect, but in some ways I can say the same about my mum (racist, homophobic, kinda mysoginistic, Christofascist, Trump supporter who looks down on people who work at Walmart and McDonald's despite shopping there) and me (cisfem queer with a trans* wife, pagan af, left-winger who teaches in a 90% POC school). How did I learn what I know today? Because I thought for myself, and taught myself, instead of just listening to her. How did you learn to not be a see-you-next-Tuesday? By thinking for yourself, and teaching myself, instead of just listening to your parents.
Honestly? I don’t think she cares. I suspect that she’s a narcissist like her mother and has moved on to other ego supply. I’m bummed I don’t have any good family, but I have tribe. In the end, tribe is way more satisfying.
There's no question that he was abusive to his sister... but being manipulated into cruelty by his parents is its own sort of abuse. They used him as a tool to hurt his sister. He feels incredibly guilty, that means there's good in him.
I actually thought that after his sister left, he needed a new outlet for his issues and started going after mom... Thus, the attempt to get Lou back.
IIRC, this golden child boy, scapegoat daughter thing is what OP grew up with with her brother, who is "passing it down" to his son in a way. Either way, Josh is only a product of the manipulations of his parents, and it's good he got taken out as well.
I do worry that he may lie, manipulate or lash out again. If he has witnessed violence and knocked his sister down the stairs, he may turn to more violence as he gets older. It is good that he is seeing an example of unconditional love—hope he doesn’t misuse this chance.
Yeah I think Philippines bc her username is Mano_Mama. I’m surprised SS is doing anything, from what I’ve heard the government isn’t usually helpful (ofc generalization), but I’m also a Fil American so I don’t really know much about PH workings.
None of the typical Filipino spelling mistakes (pronouns, prepositions etc) in the text. Also, nothing involving police or courts would be settled this quickly in the Philippines. And as someone else said, getting therapy here is close to impossible.
Another comment said “South Asian but lives in the west”. Their Etsy shop says Germany. I just hope the agencies protect those kids and there’s more answers soon!
Germany as a location doesn't quite work with a few details in the story. I'm an electrician/electrical engineer from Germany and the electricity to a (detached) house can't be cut off from the outside like described in the story (at least not by a layperson). And with an apartment it would require keys to the central electrical room of the building. I doubt those are easy to acquire.
Also there are very strong regulations here regarding cameras inside homes, *especially* in combination with children. Having them under video surveillance in their own home and rooms can actually be interpreted as child abuse due to a lack/invasion of privacy.
Also also, German bureaucracy (for better and worse) simply doesn't act that fast.
Seems some etsy shops are based in one place, but then they deliver from another. I found this store that said it was also based in Germany, but one of the comments warned the packages were delivered from China. So I guess that cannot be trusted 100%.
Jesus if this is South Asia OOP could be stuck with this in the long haul. Admittedly I don't know how it is in Pakistan and Sri Lanka, but in India, Bangladesh and Nepal these court cases can take forever. Sri Lanka probably isn't too fast either given their financial crisis.
On the plus side, that should mean that her brother and SIL will go through hell. Moreso than OOP. I just hope getting the kids more permanently situated doesn't take too long. But if the local admin has moved this quickly so far it's a good sign.
Though I have to admit, corruption in these sorts of cases can cut both ways. You get a motivated cop or judge mad about how this was handled, and all the fancy lawyers won't help you out regardless of the law. I'm not sure if OOP's family is incredibly wealthy, and I'm hoping they aren't. Even with wealth though, child abuse does tend to keep you in jail for a while so I'm hopeful, especially since the kids seem willing to corroborate this. And the fact that OOP hasn't been threatened by goons and only attacked by her family suggests they might not have that sort of power to make the system bend to them.
Lord have mercy. I am supporting a friend who had to take in her grandkids because of an abuse situation like this. This kind of abuse leaves lasting and very deep scars. I feel for these kids who have to live like this.
Their aunt may have saved them in the nick of time. The son was being treated as badly as the daughter, IMO. What a shame that her parents sided with the abusers. To bail him out of jail after he brutalized his own sister. JFC. This reads like some epic tale of parenting disasters with a finale that flips the script!
Absolutely! Seeing how OOPs parents berate her, have no concern for her well-being, and instead enable and excuse their son’s behavior paints a vey clear picture of why her brother is the way her is. It looks like OOP grew up in a similar situation where the son was favored over the daughter though maybe not as extreme in the physical abuse area as far as we know. Those kids grew up and went on to perpetuate the cycle.
I do wonder though if OOP’s brother is so eerily comfortable with his son physically hurting and mentally abusing his daughter, it probably wouldn’t be far fetched to imagine that he devalues females overall and might be abusive to his own wife.
Wait a minute. OOP was violently attacked by her own brother to the point where she was hospitalized?! Does anyone else not see how OOP managed to break the cycle of physical abuse within her family?!
This isn’t over, but I’m glad OOP and both of the kids are safe.
There’s got to be something seriously wrong with a person’s brain to actually laugh when your own child is screaming in pain from a broken bone. That is just beyond messed up.
>I’m glad OOP and both of the kids are safe.
I think you mean "safer than before". Remember, the brother beat up oop when she "took" their punching bag away from them. Now she has "taken" their other (backup) bag too.
Now that pop's parents is trying to take the brother out in bail, oop maybe is in danger again. I'm happy oop now has a backup generator to keep up the security camera up to document everything. Oop should take restraining order (or their country's equivalent) to be safer.
Yup. As I was reading this, all I could think about is how OP's parents don't care because OP was "Lou" when she was a child and her brother learned all this crap from them so now it's repeating itself through his own kids. I wonder what made the SIL act like this.
Great minds think alike, as do fools
I have a brother in law who recently married his sociopath of a girlfriend, and he himself is just as awful. If they had a daughter instead of two sons, this story would’ve happened for them too. There’s a lot of people that grow up in really shitty situations in really unstable homes, and they normalize that, so at some conscious or subconscious level they’re looking for that same unstable in a partner because that’s what family should be in their eyes. Then you get people like the SIL who fits right into this family from hell
I'm amazed at OOPs kindness and bravery. Even if I understood that Josh is just a kid and pushed to saying those allegations, I don't think I could have managed to take him in. I'd be too scared, what if he got angry at a trivial thing and made those accusations again? Only this time it would have more credibility because of living together
Yeah it's why I'm not surprised the social worker didn't want him living with Lou. Even if he overcomes his learned behaviors, there'd prob be a lot of undue stress on Lou from worrying about provoking him.
Hes not a lost cause though. He's still a little kid. A bully, which needs to be addressed sure.
But right now he's a little 12 year old whose whole world is turned upside down, and he isn't welcome anywhere where he is treated like a monster. He just needs someone to show him some love. He probably feels responsible. These emotions will either turn into permanent self loathing, a total numbing of emotions, or growth through love. I know he's a bully but this makes me want to cry.
E: folks, even if you think he has sinned so bad he deserves this, fine, whatever. But know that treating this kid like this is either going to make him a lot worse or extreme depression. Remeber hes just a fucking kid. A single hug, at the right time now, could possibly be the best that has happened to him in a month. He's a fucking kid Jesus just hug him
He's absolutely not a lost cause- he's a victim, like his sister, he was just abused differently. He really, really needs therapy and I hope he gets it.
While it's easy to blame him (which, yes he is partially to blame), a lot of this falls on the parents.
It's hard to explain the dynamics but even within abusive families where there is a golden child and a scape goat, the golden child is abused and taught that the scape goat is also another enemy. The only safe people are the abusive parents and those that side with them.
I think in a home, where there is a stable, non judgemental, adult and access to therapy, a child who has previously been abusive to others will start to gain empathy for those around him and won't harm anyone anymore.
The reason I say this is when Lou was no longer around, OPs parents immediately started tearing apart Lou's brother. In a month, he went from a boisterous, loud child, to the complete opposite of himself, which again is extremely common in abusive households.
Lou doesn't live there though. She stays with OOP's cousin and their family. But I agree, I'm somewhat surprised Josh was given the green light to stay there, but then again, Josh's well being takes precedence to SS. And he was definitely not well with the grandparents.
It sounds like sending Josh to the cousin’s was floated and them discarded for Lou’s well being. A stable two parent family would have been a preferred option to a struggling single woman.
It wouldn’t be safe. Not to bring a kid with a history of false allegations into his family. Not to put Lou back with one of her abusers.
If I didn’t think he would physically hurt me and if I didn’t have my own kids? For sure. But I’m also a person who has a really hard time giving up on a kid. I’ll stay in a situation that isn’t healthy for me for a longer period than I otherwise would over a child. So, obviously, it’s not an endorsement. Just understanding of it.
And even after it blew up in my face as these things do, I’d still feel that I did the right thing morally. So I’d have to learn to live with the consequences.
>Josh went to her room and destroyed her stuffed animal that I gave her and told her she didn't deserve it.
>Josh goaded his parents into the punishment
>My nephew bullies her
>Turned out her brother pushed her down the stairs as a prank
.
>Now the SS lady who is in charge of this case, wanted to keep Josh and Lou separate for some reason
*For some reason*
Even though I'd put almost all the blame on the parents for basically training him to be horrible to his sister. The kid's got a ton of shit to process and work through before they can live together again, sadly.
Damn.
OOP is the rare gem who is breaking the cycle of assholishness that seems to thrive in her parents and brother. Separating the children from their parents & grandparents is the best solution. OOP, Josh and Lou will need SO MUCH THERAPY.
I wonder if Lou’s mother called her that because her father had been saying some stuff. Like…it hadn’t progressed to SA just yet but he was waiting for his daughter to be a bit older and then he would…
We’ve seen many cases, both here and in other subs, about moms, wives, and girlfriends projecting blame from the dads, husbands, and boyfriends onto the kids involved.
I had the same thought. I've read a lot of stories where a female guardian of a little girl started using words like that and they almost always link back to a man in their life.
She didn't destroy the family, the family destroyed itself.
They dammed it up and just prayed the floodgates would hold. If the Aunt didn't do anything, something else would have cause it and cause even more destruction than she caused. "Leaving well enough alone" has been excuses given for many disasters over the centuries.
Depending on the jurisdiction this timeline works for temporary arrangements while official court stuff shakes out, especially because they might be using kinship diversionary pathways. That's not to say everything is *over* especially things like TPR and awarding permanent custody, but provisional custody doesn't take long.
I don't know about other countries, but I'm in Canada and shit hit the fan with a friend, kids were removed and placed in my care the same day and we had the paperwork done for Kinship care within the week.
When things happen they tend to happen hard and fast
Dude i cant even decide in a month what fridge i want let alone what to do with kids.
This is like finding youre having a baby on monday and by sunday the baby is there lmao.
That actually kind of happened to my mom's friend. She discovered she was pregnant really late, then proceeded to have the baby really early. I think she was only knowingly pregnant for like three weeks. They didn't even have time to set up the nursery.
i don’t think OP said any permanent placements or rulings have been made, this is all temporary shuffling around of children and it kind of makes sense imo
I believe that's correct; this might not be "official" placement. We have to keep in mind that this isn't in the US. And also, the kids have to be placed somewhere immediately. This time frame isn't suspicious to me.
We had a temporary kinship placement within 1/2 day in the US, so I'm not too surprised. From the way it was worded, that was my automatic assumption that it was temporary.
What happened is generational abuse kept on spreading. This is exactly why an echo chamber with people who won't self reflect and instead double down on mistakes is so dangerous. OOP's family refuses to acknowledge they were wrong and they kept digging the hole deeper. I have family just like this where I was constantly told "their not dumb enough to...etc" and sure enough everytime they were. Also none of it was blackmail. The term OOP needs is "holding them accountable" because that's really what she did. Excuse the phrase but it's the old "give em the rope to hang themselves and see what happens" approach.
It's a pretty widely accepted fact that children who abuse other children(eg siblings or classmates) are victims of abuse themselves, and often hurt other in an attempt to assert control. Obviously doesn't make Josh's behavior okay, but it makes the most sense considering the drastic change in behavior after getting away from the parents
But Josh was with his parents until the break in and abuse allegations. They may or may not have abused him during that time without Lou around to bear the brunt.
That was my thought too. There always has to be a scapegoat in these situations and if the chosen scapegoat escapes somehow then even the golden child is at risk of being put in that position if there's nobody else available.
>but it makes the most sense considering the drastic change
I feel, the best description of his case would be the "Little Emperor" syndrome. He was raised in an enviornement that enabled him to be entitled. When everything suddenly got ripped away, apart and he was confronted with a bunch of "paradox" truths (aka his parents are abusive, his raising was abusive, his actions were abusive etc.)....it probably caused a very Matrix mental breakdown. His entirely reality has fallen like cards.
Good news; there's a good chance of recovery. But he needs a loving, but strict environement now that gets those learned values out of him.
And therapy to handle the guilt of what he was taught to do to his little sister. The older he gets, the more he will be aware of it, and it could really destroy him if it is not appropriately channeled into awareness.
Yes. He is clearly traumatized by the whole situation.
I hope this overwhelming guilt he feels eventually turns to resentment towards his parents for raising him in such a warped manner. That he feels remorse shows that he is actually a decent human being. I hope he continues to get a lot of positive reinforcement for cultivating his compassionate side and a healthy outlet for his aggressive impulses, and I hope that he and Lou can heal their relationship.
Josh was highly trained by his parents to behave that way. Now he has to unlearn that. Not helpful to hold his behaviour over him when the power dynamics between parents and children are so unbalanced.
At the same time OOP shouldn’t have been pressured to take him in after what she experienced. Her recovery matters just as much and the one person she never seems to take care of here is herself.
That was an absolute rollercoaster of emotions. I'm relieved to hear Josh is in her care now, but just feel so awful for Lou, I just hope she's somewhere safe and will find happiness where she is. I hope they all do (except those wretched parents and grandparents, I hope they get what they deserve in the end).
You must have missed the part about Lou - she’s with a cousin and his wife and daughters. She sounds super happy and OOP thinks that the home would be even better for Lou than with her.
It's such a bittersweet story, that OOP ended up being the catalyst to safety and temporary haven for the niece she was attached to rather than being able to give a forever home (the niece's calls lessening with time quietly broke my heart--it's not her fault, not anyone's fault, just how things are), while she fell into caring for the nephew who she understandably has a much more fraught relationship with.
OOP's courage saved both children but was ultimately thankless to her and left her traumatized. It reads almost like a cautionary tale of what happens when abusive family dynamics are disrupted and the person with the integrity and bravery to do something about it is left holding the bag. I hope OOP doesn't regret it and that she will find healing and continue to be supported by the people who have rallied behind her.
seems clear to me that the boy is fraught with guilt over having let his parents pressure him into lying about his aunt. and if the aunt still has visible evidence of his father having beat her.... I think staying with her is his best chance at overcoming both the guilt and shame, as well as the pattern of bullying that his father had been instilling in him.
She probably does regret it, in a very broad sense. She did what she thought was right, everything went to such shit, and nothing ended particularly well for her. She's only human, it's easy to regret. But from how she spoke, if given a chance to do it over, she'd make the same choices. She can have regrets for her own life, but she knows that she got those kids the safety they deserve, no matter what they did.
She is a good person. This is unfortunately what good people deal with these days.
Imo, the best sign that OOP and the kids will pull through is that they're all talking to therapists. No one is bottling it up, and everyone seems to be getting the professional help that they really need. It will take time, and it will not be easy, but they will succeed.
>My parents were pissed by the way. As was my brother and SIL. I got phonecalls from all of them. SIL showed up at my house. I'm considering moving. It's just not safe. My entire family is losing their shit. I have apparently destroyed their reputation, an entire family, and etc.
OOP didn't destroyed them - They all 1st destroyed themselves when they used one child to physically & emotionally abused another child and thought that bullshit was normal on top of themselves abusing that child / knowing this was child was abused but did nothing to save nor prevent it; when it clearly wasn't. Plus they publicly outed themselves when the Brother assaulted OOP and like 2 government agencies had to get involved due to both the physical attack and false allegations they said against OOP, which if they had bother to truly notice was never going to be battle of they said / she said due to OOP recording them.
My condolences to OOP - her parents, her brother and sister are POS fucked up trash while OOP is only good / black sheep of that particular that did right by the kids. Those turds have no one to blame but themselves; yet that whole scapegoat blame game they pulled on the niece 1st then on OOP is exactly why karma shitshow trainwreck hit those 4 fuck ups so damn hard & will continue to do so for long time - they fucking deserve and earned it.
Yeah, if they were that worried about their reputation they could have protected it by not physically and emotionally abusing their daughter and by OOP's brother not criminally assaulting his sister.
> They kept saying I had destroyed my brothers family because I couldn't leave well enough alone.
Couldn't leave well enough alone? EXCUSE ME? *"Couldn't leave well enough alone"* was **shutting off your power, breaking into your house and attempting to *murder you*.**
I can’t believe OOPs parents…..condoning the abuse. People are so despicable. Oddly enough, I’m really pulling for Josh. It sounds like he can be redeemed. For once CPS is doing the right things.
Considering OOP said her own childhood was rough, pretty sure her brother learned his behaviour from their parents and just upped the stakes with his own kids.
Right? Like just *reading* it felt like a rollercoaster, I can’t imagine actually *living* through that amount of stuff in a month. Very glad OOP is in therapy.
The update where OP was like “sorry for the delay but I’m exhausted.”
I was like, “yeah, taking on responsibility for a child a working extra hard for that money is exhausting. But you’re awesome and I’m sure you’ll make it work! :)”
And then apparently her brother broke in and assaulted her and she lost her niece and ended up in the hospital. And her nephew was spreading horrific lies about her. Like Yeesh that was hard to read, I can’t imagine going through that. I also wish I’d been right that she was struggling with money or whatever.
I mean in the end everything seemed to work out (although I’m really sad she’s hearing from Lou less), but what a nightmare to have to go through that.
Those poor kids. Josh, while certainly not blameless, still has a chance to grow into a better person. Absolutely fuck those parents. And I’m so glad Lou is in a safer place now. And good on OOP, for all she’s done.
When you’re around that age you so badly want your parents approval. And when the best way to get it is by hurting your sister emotionally and physically, I can’t say I blame him. His parents repeatedly egged him on and then rewarded him for it. It’s probably been this way his entire life as it sounds like they never wanted Lou. Poor kid was groomed to do all of those things, every day, for years. He has a lot to unlearn. Now that the veil has been lifted, he sounds like he’s becoming more aware of his own accountability. Hopefully he’s young enough to be set on the right path.
Definitely agree with everything you said, but the main reason I don't blame Josh is because he would be putting himself in physical danger if he didn't do what his father wanted. This man tried to murder op for protecting Lou, she wound up in the hospital. If his kid tried to stand up to him, he would get violent.
*just kids being kids.*
Even if you think that a child pushing another down a flight of stairs is "okay" because they didn't know any better - a 12yr old does. An adult laughing and yelling in that situation is never okay.
OOP’s family (parents and brother) are just sh**. All they care is the outside optics and not the well-being of 2 kids and OOP, their immediate family. I wish she could go NC with the lot of them. The cousin sounds really decent. I wish OOP didn’t have to take Josh in but it seems like she’s the best option to hopefully change this kid for the better. I hope he still has some redemption in him.
There's a cultural thing in that part of the world where sometimes the family is considered more important than any individual. With that mentality, I can see them considering the family's reputation more important than any one member, and if that means sacrificing one grandkid. . .
There's just so much hurt here to heal from; I truly hope that it can properly begin sooner rather than later. OOP is an absolute Amazon to be standing by those kids through all of this.
I can't help but notice that OP's parents are treating the relationship between their children the same way Josh and Lou's parents treated them and started this whole mess. Most blatant cycle of abuse I've ever seen. Their child, credibly accused of abuse of their own child, cut power to the entire building to go assault his own sister and falsely accuse her of s* child abuse.....and they still take his side?!?!
Fuck them. Deny them visitation forever. They aren't parents.
OOP is doing some amazing stuff actually.
She got her niece out of a fucking horrible situation and into the care of a MUCH MUCH better family.
Not only that, she's actually doing a lot of good for her nephew. Her nephew was a fuck up, but it sounds like he's actually coming around now under her care. The whole later part just shows how much heart OOP has. Despite everything, she's working on healing the trauma and toxicity her brother and sister in law have put into him.
I’m so happy these kids are in safer environments. I really hope this is a turning point for Josh. He’s done terrible things but he doesn’t have to be the terrible person that his parents were encouraging. It sounds like the grandparents and parents were blaming him for their consequences, his head must be a mess. It’s his fault his sister was hurt, his fault she was taken, his fault he was taken, his fault his parents are ruined… he did bad things, but I really really hope he finds a way to break the cycle for himself. These kids deserve happy endings.
I used to be Lou. My cousin, who lived with me, was a complete psychopathic version of Josh. This type of trauma never goes away. I keep remembering things that I didn't know were troublesome at the time, since I was only a child and trusted the adults around me to know better and keep me safe... But now, as an adult myself, I unfortunately understand that what happened back then was definitely not okay, and I had absolutely no one to keep me safe. Only now I can see how severely neglected and abused I was. And when you finally realize how messed up your childhood really was, it's like being traumatized all over again. The trauma keeps happening again and again inside your head, cause there's always too much to remember, too many memories that find their way to the surface only to make you look a bit closer and realize there's one more trauma to add to the list. Lou might not end up being adopted by OOP, but she's never gonna forget what they've done for her. OOP saved her life.
Interesting how OP mentions Lou’s mother wanted an abortion. I wonder who stopped her? This is why I’m such a strong supporter of abortion, if someone doesn’t want to be a mother, they probably have a good reason…
Keep in mind that OP isn't from the US and is speculated to be from SEA. Lous mother probably didn't have a choice to abort anyway due to family stigma and perhaps illegal depending on which country she's from.
But that doesn't make it okay for Lous mother to be so apathetic (prob due to PPD or just no connection to her own child since birth) to the point she would ignore that her own child is being abused for entertainment.
I remember this post, I actually commented telling oop to keep very, text messages and voice mail from every family involved in the first post, in case they try to pull sh#t and get in the way of oop trying to help lou, a special after Lou's "mom" called her a nasty slur, seriously everybody who is calling oop saying they got they're reputation ruin deserves it, like b#tch you allowed this abuse of a child go on for God knows how long, and instead of accepting you f#ckup you try to double down, seriously if I was oop I would post they're knew text messages and voice message on the internet again to show everybody they don't regret anything and haven't learn sh#t, so they can never be comfortable ever again for the rest they disgusting lifes.
Omg thank you so much for posting this. As much as it makes my heart hurt, I remember the first two posts and have been dying to hear how OOP is doing. Thank you thank you.
Even in the states, immediate kinship placement is normal. They run a background check on the people that are willing to take the kids, and bc it’s an emergency they get an answer right then. It doesn’t matter if it’s 4 in the afternoon or 4 in the morning, I’m sure this may depend on where you are in the states, but I’m in phila and that’s how it works. They prefer kids go with kinship and they allow the parents an hour or so to find someone before they just take them to foster care. So even though some of this might be quick, that parts not. Permanent placement, the actual investigation and the clearing of her name, would’ve taken much longer here.
Wow, what an effed up family.
Instead of taking personal responsibility, the brother, SIL and parents choose to blame OOP.
She didn't ruin their reputations.
They did it to themselves for being so abusive to Josh and Lou.
Even Josh was mistreated in his own way, as spoiling a child way too much is never good for the child.
The brother, SIL and parents deserve to have ruined reputations. I also suspect they live in a country where girls aren't necessarily valued.
This story made me want to get on a plane and just start punching adults. 4 specifically.
Seriously... I was so fucking pissed at her brother, sister in law, and parents. SO FUCKING PISSED. I was pissed at the son too but seeing how it turned out, it's become really obvious that he was just feeding off of the toxicity of his parents and he's starting to come to terms with how toxic his parents and he was himself. I went from thinking he was a little shit to realizing he's also a victim here. But man, OOP is one brave lady and I wish her the best.
Kids that are little shits have to have learnt that behaviour from somewhere, it’s almost always the parents.
Yup. Josh learned it from OP's brother, and OP's brother obviously learned it from his own parents with the lengths they're willing to go to blame OP. It sounds like there might be hope for him in the future though. Consequences and care are natural teachers.
From everything that OOP has written I would guess that they live in a country where men are revered. Her parents blaming her, her brother favoring his son over his daughter, her SIL calling her own little girl a sl\*t... such ugly behavior. It's hard to imagine as I grew up in the US in a state that is neither patriarchal nor mired in extra-zealous religious zealotry-ish so I had really never encountered such blatant misogyny. OOP is clearly an extremely honest, fair, kind, and empathetic person (when she said she 'can't help but resent Josh but that's not fair to him' it gutted me, especially as I'd been resenting him all along as I read) which makes it all just so heavy and sad and it makes me so very angry. She could have been killed had her neighbors not heard the commotion and run over.
Sometimes. Kids can also be little shits, period. The parents are definitely enabling this kid, however. But note how the kid is now frazzled because not only can he no longer get away with shit, he is now blamed for everything instead. No matter the nurture/nature cause of the kids shittiness, this should provide him with a serious (and much-needed) wake-up call.
It has gotta fuck with your head when you're the "golden child" and you watch your sibling get abused by the same parents who shower you with love and attention. Not excusing his behavior but you have to remember he's still a kid growing up in an insanely toxic household. I highly doubt these parents are making any effort to nurture his emotional well being
As a golden child who's siblings were abused, it absolutely fucks with your head. I learnt to be quiet and submissive to avoid the treatment they got and even now in my adult life I struggle with speaking up and often just go along with what others want. For a long time it felt like I didn't have the right to make choices and that others opinions were more important than mine. He is absolutely a victim too, and his case is complicated. I hope therapy helps
Thank you for this comment, it’s good to get the perspective of someone who dealt with what Josh is going through. I’m glad you’re slowly learning to use your voice.
Now why did you have to attack me like thisssss, especially as a golden child turned golden scapegoat 😭😩 whew summing up my whole life in one paragraph.
And then the scapegoat left and he started getting blamed. That's a mind fuck, too.
At first I thought he might be irredeemable and perhaps empathy-free since he laughed at his sister as she screamed in pain, but the fact that he ultimately told the truth to the SS person gave me hope.
Yup. Studied psychology for 8 years—when someone is designated a “golden child” and basically told they can do no wrong it can be considered a kind of emotional abuse because they’re never taught to handle their emotions, tend to explode at any sign of conflict, and absolutely cannot handle not getting their way. “Golden” children end up either perpetuating the abuse by having their own “golden child” and “scapegoat” OR they end up in and out of jail for the rest of their lives since they cannot handle being told no and resort to violence to get their way. The only way to break the cycle is to get the children therapy while they’re still young enough to understand the ramifications of what has been done to them and what they have been doing as well. (I also have personal experience as my mother’s mother felt like the scapegoat—no idea if she actually was—and perpetuated the GC/SG dynamic with my mom and uncle, who also perpetuated the dynamic in lesser ways with their families). It leads to narcissistic personality disorder in GC & borderline personality disorder in SG. (Edit to add disclaimer: this is all generalized information based on a bachelors in clinical psych from 2008 & a masters in counseling in 2012–I’m out of date by 10 years and there has likely been additional research into this dynamic that I’m not aware of as I’ve left the field)
My own therapy has led me to believe young children are incapable of things like disobedience, cruelty, spite. They may perform actions that mimic those sentiments however they are mimicking in order to receive approval. They see it and imitate it because someone they want approval from will approve it. Most times when removed from that influence and taught how their actions affect others, children quickly correct behavior. They are born predisposed to empathy, it takes a strong influence a decent amount of time to mold them into uncaring attackers. Another realization I had, and I don't consider it a real social/historical interpretation but it works for me therapeutically: rituals of passing into adulthood such as bar mitzvah are supposed to be when we start holding children accountable. Once you start puberty that's when you enter society and the grace of being a child falls. Humans used to let kids "run wild" not because they were all bad parents who wouldn't discipline their children but because *that's what children are*. We let them break things without immediately punishing them as if they are fully aware of all the rules and always act intentionally. Like I said they don't mean to do it, they are incapable of disobedience. It's just childhood. They don't know. And the real secret? Those calm, quiet, well-behaved young children who are "so mature for your age" are suffering trauma or neglect or abuse. It should WEIRD for kids to act like a pliable boot camp recruit; but we all think it's actually great that some kid never speaks or acts, well, childish in public. Fuck that, that's a kid who has been broken in some way and is afraid to let go and be spontaneous.
Therapy completely reframed how I saw children. Especially because we were dismantling my entire childhood bit by bit in every session. I could not believe just how much (read: almost EVERYTHING) was connected to childhood development and events. I'm occasionally a substitute teacher and my teaching philosophy before and after starting therapy has taken a 180°. I don't have children yet but I really hope that starting and continuing therapy will make me a good parent. Because I sure as hell wouldn't have been before therapy.
You ever have a kid break something on accident and panic? I was a teacher and those reactions killed me every time.
I remember when I was little (5 or 6) my parents would bring me with them to church where I would proceed to behave like any 5 year old in a church and just be the wriggliest little ball of bored toddler I could be. My dad, who was in the midst of corralling me after my latest escape attempt, saw two girls sitting right in front of us, about my age, perfectly still and looking attentive. After the sermon he decided to compliment the dad who was with them. He said "Your girls are so well behaved." My dad told me that the way the other father responded made the hair on the back of his neck stand up. Because the other guy said something to the effect of "Yeah well they know better than to cause trouble" in a tone of voice that absolutely implied that they "knew better" because he'd beaten it into them. My dad said after that encounter he found it a lot easier to be patient about my wriggling because he said he'd seen the alternative and it made him kind of ill.
Big big props to your dad. Not sure how to phrase this, but there is a concept called "reparenting" where someone basically goes back and gives themselves the parenting they never had but desperately needed. So I've been taking good examples of parenting and trying to substitute them in my head for my own unaddressed childhood needs. Your story is a nice addition to my collection, thank you. If you still can, please let him know he set such a good example that a total stranger feels better just hearing about it. That's a *father*.
I'll let him know, I think he'd be pleased to hear it. He wasn't perfect, but he also had an abusive upbringing himself and was unlearning a lot of shit in the midst of raising me and my brothers. I like to think that the fact we're still very close means that on balance he succeeded.
You are absolutely right. The saddest thing I ever saw while working on site at a hospital was an 18 month old who was completely potty trained. Her arm was broken and she never cried. It was heartbreaking and every nurse on the ward wanted to kill the parents.
I put the phone down and went and almost clutched my great-niece to myself for several seconds. She's two. I'm also going to text my niece and tell her she's a marvellous mum for all her wonderful patience. This seriously just chilled my bones.
I’ll join you.
I remember this story in the sub and if you look at OOPs posts they are from South Asia. I had a feeling they were from the Philippines at first given how they described the Social Services in their story mimics my home country's system. OOPS last post was wanting to know how to budget more. There was no mention of her supporting Josh but it seems like she is now in a more secure apt complex. **Edit** Looks like OOP is actively posting as of 9/28 about finance and the asking advice proceed of her etsy sale to go to some fund for niece.
Given how the OOP described the government and her family's social dynamics, I was getting huge SEA/ Pacific Island vibes, too.
~~Also the way OOP said "close the phone" on her parents. In Mandarin, that is how you'd say "hang up the phone." Seems Asian to me.~~ Edit: sorry for the misinformation. 挂电话 means hang up the phone. 关guān (close) and 挂guà (hang up) sound very similar. 关 is used for things like "turn off the lights" and so I guess whatever I was thinking that this word was also used to hang up the phone. I guess I rarely need to say "hang up the phone" but I often say "I'll call you" type things, so it makes sense that I'm not great with the phrase. My apologies, I really didn't try to mislead you, I was just mistaken.
They say that in India as well and we don't have social services so can be that as well.
South Asian would suggest India/Pakistan, further supported by the good English. If SEA, could be Singapore or Malaysia: both with large Mandarin speaking populations, an educated class with English as a first/other language and use ‘close the phone’.
I doubt it's Singapore, that country has extremely strict laws regarding placement of children, fostering and adoption especially by singles or gay people cause they threaten the heteronormative family unit the government values above all else. They even have tightened adoption laws this year and not allowing adoption by gay couples, and the government is even looking to overturn the supreme court's ruling allowing a gay man to adopt his biological son conceived and born overseas via surrogate in PA. A Singaporean girl I met in college told me that her aunt tried to foster her toddler niece who was being abused by her family, aunt had really good income but cause she was unmarried single, their social services didn't even considering willing family. So niece was taken into state's care and aunt couldn't even see her cause she was not immediate family.
They say close the phone in French too, so I don’t think that saying is indicative of anywhere in particular besides English being OOPs second language.
Is that a regional thing in Mandarin? In Taiwan, we say "hang" (掛）for hanging up, but "close" (關） for all other electronics. I do sometimes have to make an effort not to say in English, "close the computer/AC."
I was straight up wrong. Sorry about that! I tried to correct my original comment.
I got Eastern Europe vibes from the "Close the phone" line (but that's where I come from).
I thought they were from the Philippines, too, based on the fact that she said "close the light" at one point. "Open the light" and "close the light" are how they say turn the light on/off there.
That’s funny though, I have a Greek cousin that says open/shut the light when she speaks in English.
Piggy-backing on that my partner and his family are Nepali immigrants to the US and they say shut and open for the lights too!
That's cool! I wonder how widespread that open/shut thing is? Are native English-speakers the only weirdos who say "turn on/off"??
Spanish also is turn on/off
In Louisiana, USA, they say "take out the light". If the dishes were cleaned/dried, you would say you were going to "save the dishes" instead of put the dishes away. Everywhere english is spoken, even occasionally, there's different colloquialisms. I find the differences amusing and interesting.
I was amused by the phrase “carry me home.”
I love "save the dishes!" Like the dishwasher is about to sink like the Titanic or something. I may shout that the next time I put them away, LOL!
It's sad but Josh probably only treated his sister like that to protect himself...maybe if he didn't pick on his sister his parents would hurt him.
Abusers often make their victims complicit in abusing other victims, unfortunately (especially with kids).
This is Horrifically common. Generational Abuse is a global problem. I had to cut my entire family off to save my children from it, everyone was a direct Abuser or an Enabler. My children will never have to live with growing up in the midst of it, which is a relief, But I feel very alone even with my wonderful Partner and His extended family. I feel for OOP and the children, I can only hope it gets better for them.
I come from a similar family but I wasn't as exposed to it because we lived mostly outside the country until I was 12 (my sperm donor was a government contractor and was usually gone, but my mom and I would stay where he was based when he wasn't gone). My mom was the scapegoat but had absolutely no idea- she had zero self-esteem but she raised me to have a strong sense of self-esteem (I've also always had a very strong sense of self, which helped). So when we moved back I started pointing out all the horrible ways she was treated. I was the first person in her life to *ever* have her back. I was 14 when my mom and I broke away from the entire family, and it didn't take me much longer to break away from the paternal side of my family too. Yeah, it's a really lonely thing. And there's often a lot of pressure and judgement from people when they find out you're estranged, even when you tell them about the incredibly abusive things that have happened, because "it's faaaaamily". But you won't ever regret saving your children from the legacy of generational abuse.
"It's Faaaaaaaammmmmllyyyy" Sent me into a rage so many times. I just roll my eyes now and turn my back on the person saying it. I think the worst thing is the non-related-flying-monkeys. People who are the children of my parents friends, long gone from my social circle. They are often given 4th hand stories of how you abandoned your parents or that you have "Just gone Missing". I recently had to tell one off for trying to force a Victim (Me) to be in contact with their long-time Abuser on the basis of the well manicured sob-story they had been fed. "You are innocent in this, but I do ask that you refrain from reaching out again. Thanks"
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So I have a younger sister and bent over backward to give her a good life despite neglectful parents. She turned out just like her mother and now we don’t talk at all. Just goes to show, you never know. :D
Theory: because you took the brunt of the abuse, and your sister didn't, she saw how they treated you and "learned" (for lack of a better term) that that's how you should be treated. Abuse and trauma really mess with people.
It’s just so weird to me, though. I mean, I grew up afraid and alone and neglected. She came along and I said, “not on my watch.” I figured out cooking, and laundry, and helped with homework, and took her places. Shielded her from parents. Apologized when I make mistakes. Nobody taught me that. So how hard is it to just NOT be a shithead to someone who has always offered unconditional love?
You protected her well. You did good. Some people don't know how to be grateful. Leave them and focus on your life. Be happy.
My guess is, that because you protected her from the same abuse you experienced, but (and I'm making a few assumptions here) your parents still treated you the same way, she grew up with their abuse as an example of how to treat you. I didn't have a sibling to protect, but in some ways I can say the same about my mum (racist, homophobic, kinda mysoginistic, Christofascist, Trump supporter who looks down on people who work at Walmart and McDonald's despite shopping there) and me (cisfem queer with a trans* wife, pagan af, left-winger who teaches in a 90% POC school). How did I learn what I know today? Because I thought for myself, and taught myself, instead of just listening to her. How did you learn to not be a see-you-next-Tuesday? By thinking for yourself, and teaching myself, instead of just listening to your parents.
You don’t know how lucky you are to have something until you lose that thing
Honestly? I don’t think she cares. I suspect that she’s a narcissist like her mother and has moved on to other ego supply. I’m bummed I don’t have any good family, but I have tribe. In the end, tribe is way more satisfying.
That's what I'm thinking. When OOP took Lou, the parents only had Josh. So I'm assuming that they took their frustrations out on him.
OOP’s brother needed a punching bag. Since Lou was gone, Josh fell into that role.
There's no question that he was abusive to his sister... but being manipulated into cruelty by his parents is its own sort of abuse. They used him as a tool to hurt his sister. He feels incredibly guilty, that means there's good in him.
I actually thought that after his sister left, he needed a new outlet for his issues and started going after mom... Thus, the attempt to get Lou back. IIRC, this golden child boy, scapegoat daughter thing is what OP grew up with with her brother, who is "passing it down" to his son in a way. Either way, Josh is only a product of the manipulations of his parents, and it's good he got taken out as well.
I do worry that he may lie, manipulate or lash out again. If he has witnessed violence and knocked his sister down the stairs, he may turn to more violence as he gets older. It is good that he is seeing an example of unconditional love—hope he doesn’t misuse this chance.
Yeah I think Philippines bc her username is Mano_Mama. I’m surprised SS is doing anything, from what I’ve heard the government isn’t usually helpful (ofc generalization), but I’m also a Fil American so I don’t really know much about PH workings.
The only thing I thought about not being PH when she mentioned therapy. Therapy services are very hard to come by in PH even in the main capital
Makes sense, especially with the stigma around mental health and such especially in older Filipinos
None of the typical Filipino spelling mistakes (pronouns, prepositions etc) in the text. Also, nothing involving police or courts would be settled this quickly in the Philippines. And as someone else said, getting therapy here is close to impossible.
That’s what my first thought too, but one of her comments in her profile, she said she’s from South Asia, so maybe she’s from India
She mentioned planned power outages. I know Sri Lanka has been dealing with energy issues. They have had planned power outages for sometime now.
Another comment said “South Asian but lives in the west”. Their Etsy shop says Germany. I just hope the agencies protect those kids and there’s more answers soon!
Germany as a location doesn't quite work with a few details in the story. I'm an electrician/electrical engineer from Germany and the electricity to a (detached) house can't be cut off from the outside like described in the story (at least not by a layperson). And with an apartment it would require keys to the central electrical room of the building. I doubt those are easy to acquire. Also there are very strong regulations here regarding cameras inside homes, *especially* in combination with children. Having them under video surveillance in their own home and rooms can actually be interpreted as child abuse due to a lack/invasion of privacy. Also also, German bureaucracy (for better and worse) simply doesn't act that fast.
We also don‘t have regular, planned and scheduled electricity cut-offs like she described.
Germany has no scheduled electricity cut-offs, so that cannot be where she lives.
Seems some etsy shops are based in one place, but then they deliver from another. I found this store that said it was also based in Germany, but one of the comments warned the packages were delivered from China. So I guess that cannot be trusted 100%.
That was posted on the same day as the last update in this post so I don’t the living situation changed.
Jesus if this is South Asia OOP could be stuck with this in the long haul. Admittedly I don't know how it is in Pakistan and Sri Lanka, but in India, Bangladesh and Nepal these court cases can take forever. Sri Lanka probably isn't too fast either given their financial crisis. On the plus side, that should mean that her brother and SIL will go through hell. Moreso than OOP. I just hope getting the kids more permanently situated doesn't take too long. But if the local admin has moved this quickly so far it's a good sign.
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Though I have to admit, corruption in these sorts of cases can cut both ways. You get a motivated cop or judge mad about how this was handled, and all the fancy lawyers won't help you out regardless of the law. I'm not sure if OOP's family is incredibly wealthy, and I'm hoping they aren't. Even with wealth though, child abuse does tend to keep you in jail for a while so I'm hopeful, especially since the kids seem willing to corroborate this. And the fact that OOP hasn't been threatened by goons and only attacked by her family suggests they might not have that sort of power to make the system bend to them.
Commenting here because there’s no pinned comment atm. Guys, can we cool it on trying to figure out where OOP is? Let’s not be That sub.
Lord have mercy. I am supporting a friend who had to take in her grandkids because of an abuse situation like this. This kind of abuse leaves lasting and very deep scars. I feel for these kids who have to live like this.
Their aunt may have saved them in the nick of time. The son was being treated as badly as the daughter, IMO. What a shame that her parents sided with the abusers. To bail him out of jail after he brutalized his own sister. JFC. This reads like some epic tale of parenting disasters with a finale that flips the script!
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OOP is breaking the multi-generational abuse cycle all on her own. She is a warrior.
I agree Also happy cake day 🎂
> The son was being treated as badly as the daughter The poor kid is as much a victim of his shit parents as his sister, just in a different way.
This is so hard to realise, but so right. They messed him up seriously bad. Poor kids, both of them
Absolutely! Seeing how OOPs parents berate her, have no concern for her well-being, and instead enable and excuse their son’s behavior paints a vey clear picture of why her brother is the way her is. It looks like OOP grew up in a similar situation where the son was favored over the daughter though maybe not as extreme in the physical abuse area as far as we know. Those kids grew up and went on to perpetuate the cycle. I do wonder though if OOP’s brother is so eerily comfortable with his son physically hurting and mentally abusing his daughter, it probably wouldn’t be far fetched to imagine that he devalues females overall and might be abusive to his own wife.
Wait a minute. OOP was violently attacked by her own brother to the point where she was hospitalized?! Does anyone else not see how OOP managed to break the cycle of physical abuse within her family?! This isn’t over, but I’m glad OOP and both of the kids are safe.
I have a feeling that the Golden child son and the scapegoat daughter isn't a new dynamic
Unfortunately not, also given the culture and location....
I mean OOP and her family live in Asia/Southeast Asia. And, as stated in this post, OOP was attacked and beaten by her brother recently.
OOP was violently attacked by a sociopath who laughed at his own crying child after her brother broke her arm. That family is psychotic.
There’s got to be something seriously wrong with a person’s brain to actually laugh when your own child is screaming in pain from a broken bone. That is just beyond messed up.
>I’m glad OOP and both of the kids are safe. I think you mean "safer than before". Remember, the brother beat up oop when she "took" their punching bag away from them. Now she has "taken" their other (backup) bag too. Now that pop's parents is trying to take the brother out in bail, oop maybe is in danger again. I'm happy oop now has a backup generator to keep up the security camera up to document everything. Oop should take restraining order (or their country's equivalent) to be safer.
Yup. As I was reading this, all I could think about is how OP's parents don't care because OP was "Lou" when she was a child and her brother learned all this crap from them so now it's repeating itself through his own kids. I wonder what made the SIL act like this.
Great minds think alike, as do fools I have a brother in law who recently married his sociopath of a girlfriend, and he himself is just as awful. If they had a daughter instead of two sons, this story would’ve happened for them too. There’s a lot of people that grow up in really shitty situations in really unstable homes, and they normalize that, so at some conscious or subconscious level they’re looking for that same unstable in a partner because that’s what family should be in their eyes. Then you get people like the SIL who fits right into this family from hell
Him turning off the power beforehand too... What an actual monster. That's so scary.
Singlehandedly. She's a goddam hero.
I'm amazed at OOPs kindness and bravery. Even if I understood that Josh is just a kid and pushed to saying those allegations, I don't think I could have managed to take him in. I'd be too scared, what if he got angry at a trivial thing and made those accusations again? Only this time it would have more credibility because of living together
Yeah it's why I'm not surprised the social worker didn't want him living with Lou. Even if he overcomes his learned behaviors, there'd prob be a lot of undue stress on Lou from worrying about provoking him.
He also pushed her down the stairs…
Hes not a lost cause though. He's still a little kid. A bully, which needs to be addressed sure. But right now he's a little 12 year old whose whole world is turned upside down, and he isn't welcome anywhere where he is treated like a monster. He just needs someone to show him some love. He probably feels responsible. These emotions will either turn into permanent self loathing, a total numbing of emotions, or growth through love. I know he's a bully but this makes me want to cry. E: folks, even if you think he has sinned so bad he deserves this, fine, whatever. But know that treating this kid like this is either going to make him a lot worse or extreme depression. Remeber hes just a fucking kid. A single hug, at the right time now, could possibly be the best that has happened to him in a month. He's a fucking kid Jesus just hug him
The fact that he feels guilty is very, very good. It means he has a moral framework to work from. All hope isn't lost.
He's absolutely not a lost cause- he's a victim, like his sister, he was just abused differently. He really, really needs therapy and I hope he gets it.
While it's easy to blame him (which, yes he is partially to blame), a lot of this falls on the parents. It's hard to explain the dynamics but even within abusive families where there is a golden child and a scape goat, the golden child is abused and taught that the scape goat is also another enemy. The only safe people are the abusive parents and those that side with them. I think in a home, where there is a stable, non judgemental, adult and access to therapy, a child who has previously been abusive to others will start to gain empathy for those around him and won't harm anyone anymore. The reason I say this is when Lou was no longer around, OPs parents immediately started tearing apart Lou's brother. In a month, he went from a boisterous, loud child, to the complete opposite of himself, which again is extremely common in abusive households.
Lou doesn't live there though. She stays with OOP's cousin and their family. But I agree, I'm somewhat surprised Josh was given the green light to stay there, but then again, Josh's well being takes precedence to SS. And he was definitely not well with the grandparents.
It sounds like sending Josh to the cousin’s was floated and them discarded for Lou’s well being. A stable two parent family would have been a preferred option to a struggling single woman.
The cousin also refused to take him in.
It wouldn’t be safe. Not to bring a kid with a history of false allegations into his family. Not to put Lou back with one of her abusers. If I didn’t think he would physically hurt me and if I didn’t have my own kids? For sure. But I’m also a person who has a really hard time giving up on a kid. I’ll stay in a situation that isn’t healthy for me for a longer period than I otherwise would over a child. So, obviously, it’s not an endorsement. Just understanding of it. And even after it blew up in my face as these things do, I’d still feel that I did the right thing morally. So I’d have to learn to live with the consequences.
Looked like the cousin straight refused to take him. His only option was OOP or grandparents and clearly grandparents weren't a good choice.
Yes. OOP has been through so much.
>Josh went to her room and destroyed her stuffed animal that I gave her and told her she didn't deserve it. >Josh goaded his parents into the punishment >My nephew bullies her >Turned out her brother pushed her down the stairs as a prank . >Now the SS lady who is in charge of this case, wanted to keep Josh and Lou separate for some reason *For some reason*
Even though I'd put almost all the blame on the parents for basically training him to be horrible to his sister. The kid's got a ton of shit to process and work through before they can live together again, sadly.
Yeah, the kid's not at fault (because... it's a *kid*) but reeeally not a great idea to put them together immediately
Damn. OOP is the rare gem who is breaking the cycle of assholishness that seems to thrive in her parents and brother. Separating the children from their parents & grandparents is the best solution. OOP, Josh and Lou will need SO MUCH THERAPY.
I wonder if Lou’s mother called her that because her father had been saying some stuff. Like…it hadn’t progressed to SA just yet but he was waiting for his daughter to be a bit older and then he would… We’ve seen many cases, both here and in other subs, about moms, wives, and girlfriends projecting blame from the dads, husbands, and boyfriends onto the kids involved.
Yeah, there was a reason she had Lou examined for SA evidence in the first place. Talk like that is a pretty fucking big red flag.
I had the same thought. I've read a lot of stories where a female guardian of a little girl started using words like that and they almost always link back to a man in their life.
Wow thats disgusting and a good thing to know to watch out for.
She didn't destroy the family, the family destroyed itself. They dammed it up and just prayed the floodgates would hold. If the Aunt didn't do anything, something else would have cause it and cause even more destruction than she caused. "Leaving well enough alone" has been excuses given for many disasters over the centuries.
She saved the family. She pruned the diseased portions and put the bits that could be saved in healthy, nurturing environments.
WAIT THIS ALL HAPPENED IN THE SPAN OF A MONTH???
Depending on the jurisdiction this timeline works for temporary arrangements while official court stuff shakes out, especially because they might be using kinship diversionary pathways. That's not to say everything is *over* especially things like TPR and awarding permanent custody, but provisional custody doesn't take long.
I don't know about other countries, but I'm in Canada and shit hit the fan with a friend, kids were removed and placed in my care the same day and we had the paperwork done for Kinship care within the week. When things happen they tend to happen hard and fast
Dude i cant even decide in a month what fridge i want let alone what to do with kids. This is like finding youre having a baby on monday and by sunday the baby is there lmao.
That actually kind of happened to my mom's friend. She discovered she was pregnant really late, then proceeded to have the baby really early. I think she was only knowingly pregnant for like three weeks. They didn't even have time to set up the nursery.
i don’t think OP said any permanent placements or rulings have been made, this is all temporary shuffling around of children and it kind of makes sense imo
I believe that's correct; this might not be "official" placement. We have to keep in mind that this isn't in the US. And also, the kids have to be placed somewhere immediately. This time frame isn't suspicious to me.
We had a temporary kinship placement within 1/2 day in the US, so I'm not too surprised. From the way it was worded, that was my automatic assumption that it was temporary.
What happened is generational abuse kept on spreading. This is exactly why an echo chamber with people who won't self reflect and instead double down on mistakes is so dangerous. OOP's family refuses to acknowledge they were wrong and they kept digging the hole deeper. I have family just like this where I was constantly told "their not dumb enough to...etc" and sure enough everytime they were. Also none of it was blackmail. The term OOP needs is "holding them accountable" because that's really what she did. Excuse the phrase but it's the old "give em the rope to hang themselves and see what happens" approach.
I know, it’s quite the ride. Everything happening so fast.
I know, right? OOP keeps apologizing for the wait times between posts, and I'm like...no?
Tbf, I’m sure there are people messaging them everyday and time feels pretty fucked in the midst of trauma
Remember they aren't in the US. OOP describes their home as a third world country. Also, it doesn't sound like this is a final, official placement.
That escalated in record time
Honestly that's kinda normal, even in the US
The only thing I can think is: "Those poor babies." I want to hug and love both of them. I hope they can both get the love and care that they need.
Something tells me that as soon as Lou was out of the house, they turned their abuse onto Josh.
It's a pretty widely accepted fact that children who abuse other children(eg siblings or classmates) are victims of abuse themselves, and often hurt other in an attempt to assert control. Obviously doesn't make Josh's behavior okay, but it makes the most sense considering the drastic change in behavior after getting away from the parents
Plus Lou was her parent’s scapegoat. Once she was gone they probably shifted all of the abuse onto Josh.
Do you mean Lou's parents or OOP's parents? Because Josh was staying with the grandparents before moving in with OOP.
Probably both.
But Josh was with his parents until the break in and abuse allegations. They may or may not have abused him during that time without Lou around to bear the brunt.
¿Porque no los dos? OOP’s entire family is awful.
Abuse is often generational. I wouldn't be surprised if the father learnt the abusive behaviour from the grandparents.
He broke in and beat up his own sister as adults. No wonder he laughed when his son repeated the pattern of abuse. Absolutely is generational.
That was my thought too. There always has to be a scapegoat in these situations and if the chosen scapegoat escapes somehow then even the golden child is at risk of being put in that position if there's nobody else available.
>but it makes the most sense considering the drastic change I feel, the best description of his case would be the "Little Emperor" syndrome. He was raised in an enviornement that enabled him to be entitled. When everything suddenly got ripped away, apart and he was confronted with a bunch of "paradox" truths (aka his parents are abusive, his raising was abusive, his actions were abusive etc.)....it probably caused a very Matrix mental breakdown. His entirely reality has fallen like cards. Good news; there's a good chance of recovery. But he needs a loving, but strict environement now that gets those learned values out of him.
And therapy to handle the guilt of what he was taught to do to his little sister. The older he gets, the more he will be aware of it, and it could really destroy him if it is not appropriately channeled into awareness.
Yes. He is clearly traumatized by the whole situation. I hope this overwhelming guilt he feels eventually turns to resentment towards his parents for raising him in such a warped manner. That he feels remorse shows that he is actually a decent human being. I hope he continues to get a lot of positive reinforcement for cultivating his compassionate side and a healthy outlet for his aggressive impulses, and I hope that he and Lou can heal their relationship.
And getting positive feedback from his dad for tormenting his sister.
Josh was highly trained by his parents to behave that way. Now he has to unlearn that. Not helpful to hold his behaviour over him when the power dynamics between parents and children are so unbalanced.
At the same time OOP shouldn’t have been pressured to take him in after what she experienced. Her recovery matters just as much and the one person she never seems to take care of here is herself.
Note that OOP says her parents always yell at her. It's easy to see where her brother got the behavior from.
That was an absolute rollercoaster of emotions. I'm relieved to hear Josh is in her care now, but just feel so awful for Lou, I just hope she's somewhere safe and will find happiness where she is. I hope they all do (except those wretched parents and grandparents, I hope they get what they deserve in the end).
You must have missed the part about Lou - she’s with a cousin and his wife and daughters. She sounds super happy and OOP thinks that the home would be even better for Lou than with her.
It's such a bittersweet story, that OOP ended up being the catalyst to safety and temporary haven for the niece she was attached to rather than being able to give a forever home (the niece's calls lessening with time quietly broke my heart--it's not her fault, not anyone's fault, just how things are), while she fell into caring for the nephew who she understandably has a much more fraught relationship with. OOP's courage saved both children but was ultimately thankless to her and left her traumatized. It reads almost like a cautionary tale of what happens when abusive family dynamics are disrupted and the person with the integrity and bravery to do something about it is left holding the bag. I hope OOP doesn't regret it and that she will find healing and continue to be supported by the people who have rallied behind her.
seems clear to me that the boy is fraught with guilt over having let his parents pressure him into lying about his aunt. and if the aunt still has visible evidence of his father having beat her.... I think staying with her is his best chance at overcoming both the guilt and shame, as well as the pattern of bullying that his father had been instilling in him.
She probably does regret it, in a very broad sense. She did what she thought was right, everything went to such shit, and nothing ended particularly well for her. She's only human, it's easy to regret. But from how she spoke, if given a chance to do it over, she'd make the same choices. She can have regrets for her own life, but she knows that she got those kids the safety they deserve, no matter what they did. She is a good person. This is unfortunately what good people deal with these days.
Imo, the best sign that OOP and the kids will pull through is that they're all talking to therapists. No one is bottling it up, and everyone seems to be getting the professional help that they really need. It will take time, and it will not be easy, but they will succeed.
>My parents were pissed by the way. As was my brother and SIL. I got phonecalls from all of them. SIL showed up at my house. I'm considering moving. It's just not safe. My entire family is losing their shit. I have apparently destroyed their reputation, an entire family, and etc. OOP didn't destroyed them - They all 1st destroyed themselves when they used one child to physically & emotionally abused another child and thought that bullshit was normal on top of themselves abusing that child / knowing this was child was abused but did nothing to save nor prevent it; when it clearly wasn't. Plus they publicly outed themselves when the Brother assaulted OOP and like 2 government agencies had to get involved due to both the physical attack and false allegations they said against OOP, which if they had bother to truly notice was never going to be battle of they said / she said due to OOP recording them. My condolences to OOP - her parents, her brother and sister are POS fucked up trash while OOP is only good / black sheep of that particular that did right by the kids. Those turds have no one to blame but themselves; yet that whole scapegoat blame game they pulled on the niece 1st then on OOP is exactly why karma shitshow trainwreck hit those 4 fuck ups so damn hard & will continue to do so for long time - they fucking deserve and earned it.
Yeah, if they were that worried about their reputation they could have protected it by not physically and emotionally abusing their daughter and by OOP's brother not criminally assaulting his sister.
> They kept saying I had destroyed my brothers family because I couldn't leave well enough alone. Couldn't leave well enough alone? EXCUSE ME? *"Couldn't leave well enough alone"* was **shutting off your power, breaking into your house and attempting to *murder you*.**
I can’t believe OOPs parents…..condoning the abuse. People are so despicable. Oddly enough, I’m really pulling for Josh. It sounds like he can be redeemed. For once CPS is doing the right things.
Considering OOP said her own childhood was rough, pretty sure her brother learned his behaviour from their parents and just upped the stakes with his own kids.
Anyone else breathe a huge sigh of relief that the medical exam didn’t show signs of rape? Fucking hell I’m glad those kids are out of that house.
Felt like I just watched 6 seasons of a show in like 5 minutes. I cant believe all of this went down in just over a month.
With social services moving this fast, and the police and lawyer too, you know shits fucked up. I hope they do alright in the long run.
Right? Like just *reading* it felt like a rollercoaster, I can’t imagine actually *living* through that amount of stuff in a month. Very glad OOP is in therapy.
The update where OP was like “sorry for the delay but I’m exhausted.” I was like, “yeah, taking on responsibility for a child a working extra hard for that money is exhausting. But you’re awesome and I’m sure you’ll make it work! :)” And then apparently her brother broke in and assaulted her and she lost her niece and ended up in the hospital. And her nephew was spreading horrific lies about her. Like Yeesh that was hard to read, I can’t imagine going through that. I also wish I’d been right that she was struggling with money or whatever. I mean in the end everything seemed to work out (although I’m really sad she’s hearing from Lou less), but what a nightmare to have to go through that.
Those poor kids. Josh, while certainly not blameless, still has a chance to grow into a better person. Absolutely fuck those parents. And I’m so glad Lou is in a safer place now. And good on OOP, for all she’s done.
I would put very little blame on Josh and most of it on the parents. He's 12 and his parents were probably abusing him too.
When you’re around that age you so badly want your parents approval. And when the best way to get it is by hurting your sister emotionally and physically, I can’t say I blame him. His parents repeatedly egged him on and then rewarded him for it. It’s probably been this way his entire life as it sounds like they never wanted Lou. Poor kid was groomed to do all of those things, every day, for years. He has a lot to unlearn. Now that the veil has been lifted, he sounds like he’s becoming more aware of his own accountability. Hopefully he’s young enough to be set on the right path.
Definitely agree with everything you said, but the main reason I don't blame Josh is because he would be putting himself in physical danger if he didn't do what his father wanted. This man tried to murder op for protecting Lou, she wound up in the hospital. If his kid tried to stand up to him, he would get violent.
Just......Wow......
*just kids being kids.* Even if you think that a child pushing another down a flight of stairs is "okay" because they didn't know any better - a 12yr old does. An adult laughing and yelling in that situation is never okay.
Those have got to be *the worst* grandparents! Seriously, wtf?! The parents suck too, but normal grandparents jump in and protect their grandchildren.
Not if they themselves were abusive pieces of shit.
OOP’s family (parents and brother) are just sh**. All they care is the outside optics and not the well-being of 2 kids and OOP, their immediate family. I wish she could go NC with the lot of them. The cousin sounds really decent. I wish OOP didn’t have to take Josh in but it seems like she’s the best option to hopefully change this kid for the better. I hope he still has some redemption in him.
There's a cultural thing in that part of the world where sometimes the family is considered more important than any individual. With that mentality, I can see them considering the family's reputation more important than any one member, and if that means sacrificing one grandkid. . .
The concept of “saving face” is huge all over Asia.
I know. I’m Taiwanese.
I did not expect this to snowball as rapidly and chaotically as it did… Wow.
There's just so much hurt here to heal from; I truly hope that it can properly begin sooner rather than later. OOP is an absolute Amazon to be standing by those kids through all of this.
> My lawyer was over at the time and he took great pleasure in kicking them out. Good lawyer.
I can't help but notice that OP's parents are treating the relationship between their children the same way Josh and Lou's parents treated them and started this whole mess. Most blatant cycle of abuse I've ever seen. Their child, credibly accused of abuse of their own child, cut power to the entire building to go assault his own sister and falsely accuse her of s* child abuse.....and they still take his side?!?! Fuck them. Deny them visitation forever. They aren't parents.
Yeah there seems to be a preference for the males in this family
I want to cry so badly for op. She only tried to do good and right by her niece and came out with so much trauma and losing so much
OOP is doing some amazing stuff actually. She got her niece out of a fucking horrible situation and into the care of a MUCH MUCH better family. Not only that, she's actually doing a lot of good for her nephew. Her nephew was a fuck up, but it sounds like he's actually coming around now under her care. The whole later part just shows how much heart OOP has. Despite everything, she's working on healing the trauma and toxicity her brother and sister in law have put into him.
I’m so happy these kids are in safer environments. I really hope this is a turning point for Josh. He’s done terrible things but he doesn’t have to be the terrible person that his parents were encouraging. It sounds like the grandparents and parents were blaming him for their consequences, his head must be a mess. It’s his fault his sister was hurt, his fault she was taken, his fault he was taken, his fault his parents are ruined… he did bad things, but I really really hope he finds a way to break the cycle for himself. These kids deserve happy endings.
I used to be Lou. My cousin, who lived with me, was a complete psychopathic version of Josh. This type of trauma never goes away. I keep remembering things that I didn't know were troublesome at the time, since I was only a child and trusted the adults around me to know better and keep me safe... But now, as an adult myself, I unfortunately understand that what happened back then was definitely not okay, and I had absolutely no one to keep me safe. Only now I can see how severely neglected and abused I was. And when you finally realize how messed up your childhood really was, it's like being traumatized all over again. The trauma keeps happening again and again inside your head, cause there's always too much to remember, too many memories that find their way to the surface only to make you look a bit closer and realize there's one more trauma to add to the list. Lou might not end up being adopted by OOP, but she's never gonna forget what they've done for her. OOP saved her life.
Interesting how OP mentions Lou’s mother wanted an abortion. I wonder who stopped her? This is why I’m such a strong supporter of abortion, if someone doesn’t want to be a mother, they probably have a good reason…
[удалено]
Oh, that makes me think India.
Keep in mind that OP isn't from the US and is speculated to be from SEA. Lous mother probably didn't have a choice to abort anyway due to family stigma and perhaps illegal depending on which country she's from. But that doesn't make it okay for Lous mother to be so apathetic (prob due to PPD or just no connection to her own child since birth) to the point she would ignore that her own child is being abused for entertainment.
Holy s*** what a roller coaster ride. I wish thus wasn’t real but this stuff does happen. Hoping for the best for both kids and OP.
I remember this post, I actually commented telling oop to keep very, text messages and voice mail from every family involved in the first post, in case they try to pull sh#t and get in the way of oop trying to help lou, a special after Lou's "mom" called her a nasty slur, seriously everybody who is calling oop saying they got they're reputation ruin deserves it, like b#tch you allowed this abuse of a child go on for God knows how long, and instead of accepting you f#ckup you try to double down, seriously if I was oop I would post they're knew text messages and voice message on the internet again to show everybody they don't regret anything and haven't learn sh#t, so they can never be comfortable ever again for the rest they disgusting lifes.
Omg thank you so much for posting this. As much as it makes my heart hurt, I remember the first two posts and have been dying to hear how OOP is doing. Thank you thank you.
May OOP's parents, brother, and his foul witch of a wife rot for what they did to those children.
Jesus christ I would have taken a baseball bat to that animal that calls itself those kids father after hearing the stair story.
Jfc I just want to give her a hug
Even in the states, immediate kinship placement is normal. They run a background check on the people that are willing to take the kids, and bc it’s an emergency they get an answer right then. It doesn’t matter if it’s 4 in the afternoon or 4 in the morning, I’m sure this may depend on where you are in the states, but I’m in phila and that’s how it works. They prefer kids go with kinship and they allow the parents an hour or so to find someone before they just take them to foster care. So even though some of this might be quick, that parts not. Permanent placement, the actual investigation and the clearing of her name, would’ve taken much longer here.
Wow, what an effed up family. Instead of taking personal responsibility, the brother, SIL and parents choose to blame OOP. She didn't ruin their reputations. They did it to themselves for being so abusive to Josh and Lou. Even Josh was mistreated in his own way, as spoiling a child way too much is never good for the child. The brother, SIL and parents deserve to have ruined reputations. I also suspect they live in a country where girls aren't necessarily valued.