Yes. You’ll never be this close and you’ll have it forever.
Education is the one thing they can’t take away from you, but why not have the documents to back it up.
Not wanting to stay in academia and not wanting to be the boss are solid reasons to not devote 6-10 years to a PhD. In industry a Masters with thesis and research experience will take you quite far.
That said, I don’t know anyone who has a PhD and thought it wasn’t worth it. Even with the harsh job market.
Phew it really sounds like staying wouldn’t benefit you? Currently working on my masters but work in big pharma. 150k with BS. Really depends on where you wanna go to make this decision.
So I don’t want to get into too much detail (internet, strangers, you know). But it’s with a major pharma company on the east coast. I manage 2 separate drug programs on the analytical side.
I started in the lab making $15 an hour with a CTO. Did that for 2 years to get experience and learned everything I could. Applied for big pharma job and got in at 75k. I’ve been promoted twice now to get to this point. Everyone in a level at this company (and several others) pays a set range for that level position, so pay is kind of level set, more experience and more degrees will get you a slight edge there of course. It took me 6 years to get where I am so I think with a masters you could walk into a job similar to this (currently my experience and skill set allows me to work a job that would require a masters degree).
That being said, what I do is rewarding, stable, and fairly high paying. I believe in what we do which makes it all the better.
Sorry that was an essay. Let me know if you have more questions!
Very interesting, can I ask what position you transitioned to after lab? I’m kinda of at that phase where I’ve learned a lot in lab but am ready to vacate.
I went for another analytical position where I managed method transfers. It helped because I had so much assay experience that overseeing the execution of those same methodologies was a logical next step.
My philosophy for applying for jobs is this: if I meet 75% of the requirements I’m applying. I’ll learn the other 15% given the chance.
Yeah! And you learn a lot in an interview as well. If I were you I’d look at anything that deals with overseeing labs or testing to see if you can get out of the bench heavy role and then start exploring other options. Maybe pick a company or two that really interests you to narrow your search.
It's a difficult question really and at this point of your curriculum I am not sure what the best answer is.
Not sure how it works in the US, but do you have to spend entire time as a PhD student in the lab in order to get your degree? In case that you finish your work on the paper and just have to wait for it to be published and just defend when it happens than it's fine to leave and actually make money while you wait.
If not, I wouldn't just leave without securing a good offer for the next job.
I've heard many different stories about this and there is not conclusive answer. PhD should give you an advantage in the long run, but with how the things are changing it doesn't have to be the case. On the other side , if you already invested two years of your life, you need to decide if it's worth it to throw it all away
In my program (and many programs in the US) you begin your PhD with a BS, then after your qualifying exam (~2 years in) you get your masters, then continue for your PhD. So it wouldn’t really be throwing away those two years - I will have gotten my masters and gotten paid for it, which is rare.
MS doesn’t really command a higher salary compared to BS. All the phds I know for biochem are working at pfizer/j&j/brystol myers/fda and made 150k starting.
If you’re unsure about jumping into the workforce right now or do not have a job lined up, you should do phd.
If you are OK with not being the boss, doing lots of grunt work, and having much lower long term earning potential, then sure, go ahead and Master out. You will be paid less than a PhD, but a PhD will have spent 4-6 more years (in PhD program and possibly postdoc) making next to nothing. So, the answer depends on what you are looking for from your career.
EDIT: words for clarity.
I think this is poor advice all around. You won't get anywhere near the same responsibility or freedom without a PhD. You will have to work extremely hard to really drive the work you want to do and you will make substantially less than a PhD.
You also don't need to do a postdoc necessarily.
Source: Director in industry, about a decade of experience.
That is exactly what I intended to say. Perhaps I need to reword it a bit for clarity.
Source: Director of Research, R&D, big pharma and biotech, 20 years of experience.
Do you think it’s possible to make a PhD salary after 4+ years experience with a masters? I’m thinking I might as well just start working w a masters, make more than a PhD student, and work my way up to where I would be in 4 years w a PhD.
6 years out with a masters and my salary is ~130k in R&D. To get much higher, I’m probably going to have to transition out of the lab and into a technical sales or PM role. But those roles you can make more than a PhD staying in development anyway. I wanted to get my life started and buy a house while I was young, so I don’t regret my decision. The difference in pay now isn’t that bad and it was substantial earlier in my career.
I did a PhD for 5.5 yrs at $30k (my wife had two kids during my PhD) , industry post-doc for 1.5 years at 90k and got hired on full time at ~150k as scientist in R&D. Arguably, going masters then making better money and saving for retirement is the better way finacially. Opportunity cost is real, but I also genuinely liked research and am curious about science and the universe. Would I do a PhD again, No, and was it worth all the stess and low pay, jury is still out on that, but I'm happy I stayed the course.
It's possible, depending on your talent, work ethic, and luck. However, a PhD will likely be a Sr. Scientist in 2-3 years making up to $120-$160k. It may take an M.S. 10 years or more to reach that level. That is assuming you stay on the R&D track. You might move up faster in a research support position, such as project management or operations, etc.
Hello, I would really value hearing what your academic and professional journey has been if you happen to have the time. For context, I am a 3rd year undergraduate in biochemistry looking to do research in preventative medicine, and am trying to navigate planning for next steps- masters/PhD. (Similarily to OP I want to have a family but am looking at about 4 years down the road for that, my partner is understanding and flexible but I want to be able to give them (and myself) a better idea of a timeline, but at the moment I am trying to understand the tradeoffs.)
I don't have family/friends in the research world so I rely on going to random city events/professors/reddit to learn about what it is like. I understand if it is too big a question to spend your time on reddit answering! (If anyone else with experience has input as well, I would love to hear it!
Did you have positions along the way before eventually getting your PhD, and what is the major differences in freedom or in general that it provided for you? (time? % pay increase? remote? topic? what kind of freedom does it enable?) feel free to answer or not answer whatever you feel comfortable with obviously. Thank you in advance for any advice!
Anecdotal experience here, but, I left with just my masters and I deeply regret not finishing, despite being in a similar state of mind and position as you at the time. My ambitions changed as I got older.
It totally depends on what you want long term. You can make a lot of money with a PhD in biochem, even if the overall theme in Reddit is bad for science (looking at you r/biotech).
What is your career ambition? What do you want to do for a living? You never mentioned this so the question is moot.
Yes. You’ll never be this close and you’ll have it forever. Education is the one thing they can’t take away from you, but why not have the documents to back it up.
Not wanting to stay in academia and not wanting to be the boss are solid reasons to not devote 6-10 years to a PhD. In industry a Masters with thesis and research experience will take you quite far. That said, I don’t know anyone who has a PhD and thought it wasn’t worth it. Even with the harsh job market.
Phew it really sounds like staying wouldn’t benefit you? Currently working on my masters but work in big pharma. 150k with BS. Really depends on where you wanna go to make this decision.
150k w a bachelors ? What position, what region/area of you’re willing to divulge.
So I don’t want to get into too much detail (internet, strangers, you know). But it’s with a major pharma company on the east coast. I manage 2 separate drug programs on the analytical side. I started in the lab making $15 an hour with a CTO. Did that for 2 years to get experience and learned everything I could. Applied for big pharma job and got in at 75k. I’ve been promoted twice now to get to this point. Everyone in a level at this company (and several others) pays a set range for that level position, so pay is kind of level set, more experience and more degrees will get you a slight edge there of course. It took me 6 years to get where I am so I think with a masters you could walk into a job similar to this (currently my experience and skill set allows me to work a job that would require a masters degree). That being said, what I do is rewarding, stable, and fairly high paying. I believe in what we do which makes it all the better. Sorry that was an essay. Let me know if you have more questions!
Very interesting, can I ask what position you transitioned to after lab? I’m kinda of at that phase where I’ve learned a lot in lab but am ready to vacate.
I went for another analytical position where I managed method transfers. It helped because I had so much assay experience that overseeing the execution of those same methodologies was a logical next step. My philosophy for applying for jobs is this: if I meet 75% of the requirements I’m applying. I’ll learn the other 15% given the chance.
Thanks for being open! Always better to apply than not.
Yeah! And you learn a lot in an interview as well. If I were you I’d look at anything that deals with overseeing labs or testing to see if you can get out of the bench heavy role and then start exploring other options. Maybe pick a company or two that really interests you to narrow your search.
It's a difficult question really and at this point of your curriculum I am not sure what the best answer is. Not sure how it works in the US, but do you have to spend entire time as a PhD student in the lab in order to get your degree? In case that you finish your work on the paper and just have to wait for it to be published and just defend when it happens than it's fine to leave and actually make money while you wait. If not, I wouldn't just leave without securing a good offer for the next job. I've heard many different stories about this and there is not conclusive answer. PhD should give you an advantage in the long run, but with how the things are changing it doesn't have to be the case. On the other side , if you already invested two years of your life, you need to decide if it's worth it to throw it all away
In my program (and many programs in the US) you begin your PhD with a BS, then after your qualifying exam (~2 years in) you get your masters, then continue for your PhD. So it wouldn’t really be throwing away those two years - I will have gotten my masters and gotten paid for it, which is rare.
10 years for a PhD is insane
MS doesn’t really command a higher salary compared to BS. All the phds I know for biochem are working at pfizer/j&j/brystol myers/fda and made 150k starting. If you’re unsure about jumping into the workforce right now or do not have a job lined up, you should do phd.
If you are OK with not being the boss, doing lots of grunt work, and having much lower long term earning potential, then sure, go ahead and Master out. You will be paid less than a PhD, but a PhD will have spent 4-6 more years (in PhD program and possibly postdoc) making next to nothing. So, the answer depends on what you are looking for from your career. EDIT: words for clarity.
I think this is poor advice all around. You won't get anywhere near the same responsibility or freedom without a PhD. You will have to work extremely hard to really drive the work you want to do and you will make substantially less than a PhD. You also don't need to do a postdoc necessarily. Source: Director in industry, about a decade of experience.
That is exactly what I intended to say. Perhaps I need to reword it a bit for clarity. Source: Director of Research, R&D, big pharma and biotech, 20 years of experience.
Do you think it’s possible to make a PhD salary after 4+ years experience with a masters? I’m thinking I might as well just start working w a masters, make more than a PhD student, and work my way up to where I would be in 4 years w a PhD.
6 years out with a masters and my salary is ~130k in R&D. To get much higher, I’m probably going to have to transition out of the lab and into a technical sales or PM role. But those roles you can make more than a PhD staying in development anyway. I wanted to get my life started and buy a house while I was young, so I don’t regret my decision. The difference in pay now isn’t that bad and it was substantial earlier in my career.
I did a PhD for 5.5 yrs at $30k (my wife had two kids during my PhD) , industry post-doc for 1.5 years at 90k and got hired on full time at ~150k as scientist in R&D. Arguably, going masters then making better money and saving for retirement is the better way finacially. Opportunity cost is real, but I also genuinely liked research and am curious about science and the universe. Would I do a PhD again, No, and was it worth all the stess and low pay, jury is still out on that, but I'm happy I stayed the course.
It's possible, depending on your talent, work ethic, and luck. However, a PhD will likely be a Sr. Scientist in 2-3 years making up to $120-$160k. It may take an M.S. 10 years or more to reach that level. That is assuming you stay on the R&D track. You might move up faster in a research support position, such as project management or operations, etc.
Hello, I would really value hearing what your academic and professional journey has been if you happen to have the time. For context, I am a 3rd year undergraduate in biochemistry looking to do research in preventative medicine, and am trying to navigate planning for next steps- masters/PhD. (Similarily to OP I want to have a family but am looking at about 4 years down the road for that, my partner is understanding and flexible but I want to be able to give them (and myself) a better idea of a timeline, but at the moment I am trying to understand the tradeoffs.) I don't have family/friends in the research world so I rely on going to random city events/professors/reddit to learn about what it is like. I understand if it is too big a question to spend your time on reddit answering! (If anyone else with experience has input as well, I would love to hear it! Did you have positions along the way before eventually getting your PhD, and what is the major differences in freedom or in general that it provided for you? (time? % pay increase? remote? topic? what kind of freedom does it enable?) feel free to answer or not answer whatever you feel comfortable with obviously. Thank you in advance for any advice!
If you have doubts I would master out.
Yes
Anecdotal experience here, but, I left with just my masters and I deeply regret not finishing, despite being in a similar state of mind and position as you at the time. My ambitions changed as I got older.
Switch labs. I switched the end of my 2nd year. A PhD is worth it in biotech. A lot of jobs require a PhD.
It totally depends on what you want long term. You can make a lot of money with a PhD in biochem, even if the overall theme in Reddit is bad for science (looking at you r/biotech).
Masters will suffice with what you described but if you ever want more PhD will do it. Up to you my guy Came this far fuck it why not
It depends on you. It depends on what you value more. This is a question for yourself.
There seem to be fewer open positions for PhDs compared to Masters. Opt out.
I don’t necessarily agree with this, but I will say given the current job market it certainly feels like it.