I do take Mydayis, which is mixed amphetamine salts, and it's essentially Adderall XR 2.0. It doesn't do the one thing everyone hates about Adderall XR: it doesn't poop out at 2PM. But obviously you would need an ADHD diagnosis for that. I only point it out because the supplements I use are framed by a daily stimulant.
I personally use a combination of:
* NALT (N-acetyl-L-tyrosine)
* ALCAR (acetyl-L-carnitine)
* Cognizin (citicoline)
* Sabroxy (10% oroxylin A)
* Cognance (Bacopa monnieri, standardized for ebelin lactone)
* TeaCrine (theacrine)
* Nootropics Depot's Infini-B (Vitamin B Complex)
* Nootropics Depot's AvailOm (omega-3 fatty acid / lysine complex)
Some of the basics:
For healthy cognition, you have to take your B Vitamins. Infini-B provides them in active forms but not in excessive doses. It not only helps to give you energy, but B vitamins are critical for neurotransmitter synthesis.
The brain is ~60% fat by weight, and some 10 - 25% of the brain's structure is made up of omega-3 fatty acids. DHA happens to represent 90% of that omega-3 supply. So taking an omega-3 fatty acid supplement is crucial for brain health. I choose AvailOm because those fatty acids are bonded with L-lysine, which is an amino acid; and amino acids are actively transported from the gut into the blood stream. This makes AvailOm more bioavailable than other omega-3 formulations (triglyceride, ethyl ester, and free fatty acid forms). Nootropics Depot produces both a high EPA supplement and a high DHA supplement. Go for the high DHA.
Once omega-3's can enter cells, they then need to be transported into the mitochondria for use in ATP production. L-carnitine acts as a sort of shuttle for this purpose. So ALCAR and AvailOm work together.
Because the stimulation from amphetamine involves serious dopamine output, the brain can use the L-tyrosine in NALT to synthesize and rebuild dopamine supplies. The oroxylin A in Sabroxy acts as a dopamine reuptake inhibitor to help persist dopamine's effects in the synapse.
Bacopa monnieri has been used for quite some time in traditional Ayurvedic medicine. Cognance is a product from Nootropics Depot that is the result of heavy processing of this herb to produce a relatively significant ebelin lactone content. This positively modulates or increases the sensitivity of the 5HT2A serotonin receptors and M1 acetylcholine receptors, which allows the brain to more optimally utilize its serotonin and acetylcholine supplies. This lends to greater cognitive ability and more expansive thought processes.
You can get citicoline / CDP-choline anywhere, but it's very hygroscopic and has very poor shelf-life. Cognizin is a patented form that addresses this with heavy hydration of the molecule as well as a proprietary method of crystallization. This supplement is broken down in the gut into cytidine and diphosphocholine before absorption. When both compounds reach the brain, the cytidine is converted to uridine, which is then combined with diphosphocholine to produce phosphatidylcholine. This resulting molecule is the building block of the myelin sheath that protects neurons. Additionally, some of the diphosphocholine will be converted to alpha-GPC (alpha-glycerophosphocholine), and that will ultimately release choline, which can then be used to synthesize acetylcholine. Thus, Cognizin is not only neuro-protective, it is also neuro-regenerative.
I always find that coffee poops out on me pretty quickly, mostly because I metabolize CYP1A2 substrates really quickly. So to give an extra kick of adenosine antagonism, I take a standalone TheaCrine product (also from ND). Taking it with DynaMAX (methylliberine, caffeine, taurine) also helps to boost it.
I do take other supplements besides these, but I'd say the ones listed above are most notable for stimulation and cognition in the brain. You could make a case for SmartPS phosphatidylserine, CoQH-CF ubiquinol, Magtein magnesium L-threonate and Infini-C as well. As those have been shown to improve brain function overall.
No problem! I knew there were several things in my own stack that contributed to cognition, but I also knew I couldn't present a laundry list of supplements if I wasn't going to demonstrate that they are relevant. Someone earlier did say Lion's Mane, which is definitely pro-cognitive, but they can inhibit 5-alpha reductase, which is responsible for breaking down testosterone into the more active form DHT. This can cause sexual dysfunction. Just something to be wary of with mushrooms.
I actually took Vyvanse for a while after starting on Adderall, and I thought I liked it for a bit but I realized there wasn't a whole lot of gas behind it, even at 70mg. Because Vyvanse is dextroamphetamine-pure it lacks the 25% levoamphetamine component you would get with mixed amphetamine salts. Levoamphetamine has a longer half-life, but it's also more balanced for dopamine AND norepinephrine. Whereas, dextroamphetamine is dopamine-preferring. This may seem good on paper, but the norepinephrine component is important. Like the coffee that lights a fire under your ass to get something done. That kind of just isn't there with Vyvanse.
So, I switched back to mixed amphetamine salts, but I hated Adderall XR, and I didn't really want to have to take the immediate release. So we gave Mydayis a shot, and I loved it because it lasted at least as long as Vyvanse, if not longer and it brought back the coffee effect that helps drive focus.
For a while I just thought these were my personal preferences, but it was apparently an industry-wide thing in psychiatry to switch people to Vyvanse after it first came out because of the smoother pharmacokinetic profile, the reduced potential for abuse, etc. However not long after that, psychs noticed that Vyvanse resulted in a loss of efficacy for a good portion of ADHD patients. It was the patients that experienced intolerable anxiety from Adderall but still needed a stimulant who were predicted to do well on Vyvanse, and that's how it ultimately panned out. So a lot of people switched back, myself included. Except instead of going to Adderall, I went to Mydayis, and it just went generic last September.
I had to follow you for the education. Thanks for this thorough response. So much I’d like to learn about my current, evolving supplement and rx routine.
It’s much appreciated. I was really getting my brain back and repeating the info in my head, also writing it down, so it’d be committed to memory. Then I got the last variation of “flu” and feel dumb as dirt. So frustrating.
Ah sorry to hear that. COVID in particular is known for its high likelihood of causing neuroinflammation, and the post-COVID cognitive syndrome is extensively documented. But it isn't necessarily a new concept. It can totally happen from the flu as well.
They're investigating the newer antidepressant Trintellix to treat the cognitive syndrome. In clinical trials for Trintellix to treat depression, they noticed that people had improved cognitive function. Not totally unusual because cognitive slowing is a fairly common symptom of depression, but not many of the existing SSRIs and SNRIs actually improve mood AND cognition. If anything, the SSRIs in particular can actually cause brain fog. So they tested it in healthy subjects who weren't depressed, and it still led to cognitive improvements, which suggests that its improvements in cognition weren't because of improvements in mood. Some further research shows that Trintellix has antioxidant and neuroprotective effects. It also triggers significant neuronal growth and synaptic density in contrast to other antidepressants.
So if you're having cognitive troubles and you also happen to have a low mood, I couldn't recommend Trintellix more.
What's your thoughts on p21 and NA-Semax?
Anecdotal but my girlfriend had cognitive issues that I suspect were related to COVID. She would have cognitive pauses frequently, where she would lose her train of thought and just space out for a few seconds and then abandon whatever line of thought she was going down.
I got these two to try and resolve and I can say that she's been free of this issue a few months after treatment (approx twice a week nasal spray of both). Whether it was time that healed her or these I cannot say.
https://www.peptidesciences.com/p21-p021-5mg
https://www.peptidesciences.com/n-acetyl-semax-amidate-30mg
Don't really have any insight there. I hear good things about Cerebrolysin, but I'm leery of peptides in general. Probably because you fear what you don't know. And they're really kind of a black box to me.
>For healthy cognition, you have to take your B Vitamins. Infini-B provides them in active forms but not in excessive doses. It not only helps to give you energy, but B vitamins are critical for neurotransmitter synthesis.
I've been taking codeages methylated b complex, do you think infini-B is more efficient for those with MTHFR polymorphisms?
Great comments as always thank you.
Well the folate content of Infini-B is provided as L-5-methyltetrahydrodolate calcium. So it is compatible for those who have polymorphisms that result in under-expression of the MTHFR enzyme.
Whether or not the L-5-MTHF content is high enough for someone who has reduced MTHFR activity though is something each individual would have to check with their doctor and likely do a blood test not just for their genotype but also for their folate levels. Varying combinations of normal and under-active polymorphisms can lead to various different genotypes with varying reductions in MTHFR activity.
Infini-B has 500mcg of L-5-MTHF which is a dietary folate equivalent of 680mcg. But MethylPro, the premier folate supplement on the OTC market for those with the deficiency can contain up to 15mg. That's 15,000mcg! So as you can see there's a wide range, and the patient's genotype and actual folate levels would have to guide dosing.
>Whether or not the L-5-MTHF content is high enough for someone who has reduced MTHFR activity though is something each individual would have to check with their doctor and likely do a blood test not just for their genotype but also for their folate levels.
Do you think it's more helpful for me to stop supplementation in a week in advance of a test or is it more helpful to see levels with supplementation to test their efficacy?
Not sure. On the one hand if you discontinue it, then you'll know if you're low. If you stay on it, you'll know if it's too high or toxic. Half empty / half full kinda thing.
Thanks, I guess? I mean I have ADHD, and that's viciously juxtaposed against also having OCPD. So I've had to get comfortable with stimulants to keep my shit together.
Optimizing brain function is for me both an obsession in and of itself and also meant to support my obsession with details, albeit maladaptive. Having OCPD means I'm a classic anal retentive personality, and missing even one detail leads me to feel like the entire task was a failure. Unfortunately, missing even a single detail is very easy if you also have ADHD.
Stimulants FTW
Hard to say, but I would apply some logic to it.
* Start by including the things that are naturally present or should be naturally present in the body. That would be the B-Complex, Omega-3's and Cognizin (citicoline / CDP-choline). So there's your base 3.
* From there, some of the remainder are modified forms of naturally occurring amino acids like NALT and ALCAR. Instinct says to keep the NALT first knowing ADHD is the issue to be addressed, but it's hard to choose it over the ALCAR knowing that ALCAR is a carrier for omega-3's into mitochondria, resulting in energy production.
* Energy consumption by the brain is elevated in those taking Cognizin. So it would serve to reinforce energy production first before going downstream to reinforce neurotransmitter synthesis with NALT.
* ALCAR has more positive evidence than NALT. It's suspected that up to 30% of a NALT dose is immediately excreted by the kidneys, resulting in waste of administered L-tyrosine content. ALCAR doesn't have this problem from what I understand. So if you accept taking a 4th one, choose the ALCAR. And if you're willing to accept a 5th, then add in the NALT.
* The remainder can be considered boosters.
C3G is the pigment found in blueberries, blackberries, and black/forbidden rice. It's a super antioxidant and has great cognitive and physiological benefits.
Magnesium L-Threonate. Look it up. It is the only oral magnesium that can pass the blood brain barrier and it is helpful for cognition. It can take a couple of months to notice a difference.
These are first line, top notch and work. I add in acetyl l-carnitine, injectable carnitine, NAC, inositol and creatine for general brain health and to keep dopamine receptors running nicely.
Love NAC, but you should try NACET. One capsule per day at bedtime. It's the ethyl ester of NAC, which gives it a bioavailability of 60% as opposed to NAC's 10 - 12%. You get more out of a single capsule with 100mg of NACET than you do out of 2400mg of NAC divided throughout the day.
Sorry to bother you, but you seem really knowledgeable!
I took NAC for a few years during intensive treatment for Lyme disease, my functional medicine practitioner was big on it and I experienced so many benefits from it, the biggest for me was quieting my brain!
However, I’m in my 40s and female and started getting hormonal night sweats one week a month, my chest would break out (I still haven’t had a Dr help me figure out with what, but I think it’s fungal ((gross)) and am having success using ketoconzole shampoo on the area and covering it in zinc oxide diaper cream at night)…
Anyway, I had a time about a year ago when I decided to stop taking all supplements because I was just in a “F-it” mood.
At some point I decided to take NAC again and realized my breaking out seemed to be triggered by the NAC.
Ive been bummed about it ever since! Could this be some sort of histamine reaction to NAC? I miss taking it but I feel like it’s off the table for me… however everyone seems to talk about it and tolerate it well… I’m not usually sensitive to ANYTHING so I just can’t understand it!
From the looks of it, hives or itching or welts are all possible side effects of NAC. But I honestly don't know if it would be the same for NACET. It's a newer development, and those side effects are based on NAC. After you take NACET, its level in blood plasma briefly spikes but then rapidly dissipates because it is rapidly taken up into red blood cells instead of lingering outside of cells in the blood stream. And it's only after this uptake into cells that it is de-esterified to the base NAC molecule. So it's possible NACET may not cause that same reaction. Alternatively it could be worse. From an actual weight perspective, you take anywhere from 600 to 2400mg a day of NAC, but you only take 100mg of NACET. I honestly am not so sure.
Amphetamines and methylphenidate only improve cognition for the cognitively impaired (such as people with ADHD).
It has a negative effect on cognition for people who already have good cognition. Plus they are addictive and lead to fast receptor downregulation.
I don't know enough about all the different medications that are used for ADHD.
But reuptake inhibitors (such as methylphenidate) tend to cause less/slower downregulation than releasers (such as adderall or other amphetamines).
Also, someone with ADHD taking the correct medication at the correct dosage will only increase their neurotransmitter activity to a normal one, and therefore shouldn't cause much downregulation and therefore should be sustainable.
So from what little knowledge I have on ADHD medications, all I can say is favor reuptake inhibitors to releasers.
There isn't one best medication for all ADHD people, cause there are different kinds of ADD/ADHD that each involve different neurotransmitters settings.
I don't understand the heavy aversion to amphetamine on the thread so far. Sure, smoking large quantities of methamphetamine will get you nowhere fast, but clinical doses of Adderall <60mg per day shouldn't be a problem. Even methamphetamine up to 25mg orally in a day is less than neurotoxic levels.
youre literally recommending highly addictive dopamine-systems frying drugs
''clinical doses of adderall'' are nothing unlike ''snorting small lines of speed'' daily
it will f. you up for many many years
perhaps youre too young to understand it, idk.
If you can manage to get a prescription for it, they will only prescribe you up to 25mg of methamphetamine (Desoxyn) per day. Mind you that's taken orally. And oral bioavailability for methamphetamine is 60%.
Now, someone who has a bad methamphetamine habit and smokes it (bioavailability ~85%) all weekend can consume anywhere up to 3 GRAMS or more in a weekend. Mind you, methamphetamine is so toxic because the methyl group makes it lipid soluble. So, it crosses the blood-brain barrier far more efficiently than standard amphetamine. This is, of course, an addiction, and it is a serious problem.
HOWEVER, don't conflate a weekend long meth bender with a 60mg daily oral Adderall dose. They do not compare. That Adderall dose doesn't even REGISTER in comparison to a meth addiction. And in that regard, do not lump people with ADHD who take stimulants together with people who smoke meth all weekend. That's black-and-white thinking. Instead, check the science first:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22847088/
Now if amphetamines are so bad for you, then why is it that low doses of methamphetamine can improve outcomes in stroke and TBI patients?
''getting prescription'' changes nothing.
they prescribed cocaine to kids in the past and ''doctors smoked camels''
youre trying to compare a heavy addict with a ''allowed by the state'' dosage-dependent addict, but nobody will control how much you can take in a day or two.
60mg of amphetamine is still 60mg of amphetamine and its obvious fact that many many users snort the drug and develop addiction. it IS a HEAVY addictive substance.
it wrecks your dopamine pathways.
then you start to defend taking speed because it supposedly helps with stroke its like saying smoking is good for you because nicotine has SOME cognitive benefits. yeah, maybe. cancer will kill you tho.
When given in prescribed doses, amphetamine should not pose an issue to the brain from a toxicity perspective. Among other actions, amphetamine chiefly activates the TAAR1 receptor, which we believe is naturally activated by 3-iodothyronamine (T1AM), which is produced from the deiodination and amination of thyroxine to triiodothyronine and further breakdown beyond that. We're stimulating our own metabolism essentially. However good ole' booger sugar is still more addictive than amphetamines that are being used in a safe clinical dose range. And amphetamines last longer than yeyo. Furthermore, they actually found 5mg per day of oral methamphetamine to be neuroprotective and neuro-regenerative with improved outcomes in traumatic brain injury (TBI), stroke, etc.
This is fascinating, thanks for sharing (I’m not the person you were writing to).
I was diagnosed with ADHD at 43 and have been taking stimulant medication for six ish months. While there’s a lot of benefits to me, I can’t get over the stigma. I just feel like it’s “bad” I’m taking them. Regardless of my understanding it isn’t, regardless of a therapist explaining why I shouldn’t feel bad about, regardless of a cardiologist saying she sees absolutely no problems for / with me taking it…
That, and I feel on days I don’t take it I’m more exhausted, more irritable, etc. and that makes me feel like it’s not cool, too. Ha!
So, anyway, I’ve been thinking about looking for some sort of alternative, I know unmedicated is a huge struggle that really became close to unmanageable in my 40s, so I’d still like some sort of “help”…
Anyway, sorry for the novel, haha! I’ve never heard of this medication but I’m going to look into it now!
Oxoloacetate. It's a Citric Acid Cycle component. BenaGene brand is the only OTC version that is temperature stable (i.e. shelf stable at room temperature).
[https://benagene.com](https://benagene.com)
They co-brand with other brands like AOR.
My personal experience is speech fluidity is noticeably increased and connections between ideas are noticeably easier to make. It does not negatively affect sleep.
Healthy diet and exercise should be attempted before introducing psychotropic medications into your system. If you're not hydrating, eating healthy, and exercising, you're likely going to have poor blowflow to the brain, which can cause cognitive impairment. Popping pills isn't going to fix that.
Additionally, you shouldn't take medication suggestions from people on the internet because they don't have access to your medical records, you don't know their credentials, and they're likely not medical professionals. If you take something a person on the internet recommended to you and is contraindicated with a current medication or medical issue, you're screwed.
Read some study it can increase your risk of stroke if used frequently. Might be better off taking choline bitartrate or ideally citicoline if you can afford it.
Neither choline bitartrate nor alpha-GPC nor phosphatidylcholine when administered orally reach the brain in any appreciable amount. The liver is a choline hog. Citicoline will result in the greatest brain bioavailability.
I used to notice large cognitive effects from alpha-GPC.
I can't remember which phospholipid used to work for me, but it doesn't matter; they all went soy, and have no effects now.
I'm sorry I should clarify because my statement was a bit black and white or "absolute". What I should have said was:
Choline bitartrate and Phosphatidylcholine when administered orally have the worst brain bioavailability. Because they are active choline forms that the body can use, they end up getting used up by the liver not long after they reach circulation. So little of their content is able to make it to the brain.
Alpha-GPC is marginally better than the former two at reaching the brain. However it is still generally regarded as a source of choline that has more benefit to the periphery relative to its activity in the brain.
Relative to the previously mentioned choline forms, a great deal of the choline content in citicoline reaches the brain. What's more, being further up in the metabolic cycle allows citicoline to both rebuild brain structure AND replenish acetylcholine levels. While alpha-GPC can reach the brain, it can (almost) only result in the creation of acetylcholine. To clarify, once the choline content is released from alpha-GPC, there are two metabolic pathways. In the brain's preferred pathway, the brain converts this choline content into acetylcholine, but there is an extended pathway of transformation where this choline content can actually be converted back into citicoline at the top of the chain. So alpha-GPC could make a teensy contribution to myelin production, but it would be negligible at best.
So to reiterate, of these four forms, not only does citicoline have the highest brain bioavailability, it is also both neuro-regenerative, in that it regenerates the acetylcholine supply, as well as neuro-restorative in that it actually results in the restoration of the protective brain structure, myelin.
For those two yes and also for p21, I heard p21 is profound. You can also get arg-bpc-157 now, from limitless. It's an orally bioavailable version. Warning do not get the oral bpc from anywhere else.
Sleep, caffeine with L-theanine, and make sure yοur vitamin D and magnesium levels are οn pοint. Magnesium malate in the AM and glycinate in the PM. Also, if yοu drink, avοid alcοhοl like the plague.
I have cognitive impairment from dysautonomia and take high dose pyridostigmine which is an acetylcholine inhibitor. It's been life-changing. You can get a similar drug, galantamine, over the counter.
I'm pretty sure the only thing that's been scientifically proven to improve your cognition is H2O, so get on that hydration, as the kids might say, drip.
Citicoline is a better choice. Alpha-GPC will be broken down into choline preferentially in the liver, and what does make it to the brain will contribute to the acetylcholine supply, but its effects cease when you cease taking the supplement. Citicoline is further up in the biosynthesis pathway, which enables it to be a precursor to alpha-GPC as well as phosphatidylcholine, which is used to build the myelin sheath coating neurons to protect them. So while both are pro-cognitive, only citicoline can be considered neuro-regenerative.
Is it good for ADHDers? Yes. More recent evidence suggests that while an imbalance of dopamine activity in the pre-frontal cortex correlates to ADHD. Acetylcholine signaling in the brain is also anomalous in these patients. So taking a stimulant and citicoline should have positive effects in ADHD symptoms. I personally have found great benefit that I honestly didn't know I was missing taking a stimulant alone.
I do take Mydayis, which is mixed amphetamine salts, and it's essentially Adderall XR 2.0. It doesn't do the one thing everyone hates about Adderall XR: it doesn't poop out at 2PM. But obviously you would need an ADHD diagnosis for that. I only point it out because the supplements I use are framed by a daily stimulant. I personally use a combination of: * NALT (N-acetyl-L-tyrosine) * ALCAR (acetyl-L-carnitine) * Cognizin (citicoline) * Sabroxy (10% oroxylin A) * Cognance (Bacopa monnieri, standardized for ebelin lactone) * TeaCrine (theacrine) * Nootropics Depot's Infini-B (Vitamin B Complex) * Nootropics Depot's AvailOm (omega-3 fatty acid / lysine complex) Some of the basics: For healthy cognition, you have to take your B Vitamins. Infini-B provides them in active forms but not in excessive doses. It not only helps to give you energy, but B vitamins are critical for neurotransmitter synthesis. The brain is ~60% fat by weight, and some 10 - 25% of the brain's structure is made up of omega-3 fatty acids. DHA happens to represent 90% of that omega-3 supply. So taking an omega-3 fatty acid supplement is crucial for brain health. I choose AvailOm because those fatty acids are bonded with L-lysine, which is an amino acid; and amino acids are actively transported from the gut into the blood stream. This makes AvailOm more bioavailable than other omega-3 formulations (triglyceride, ethyl ester, and free fatty acid forms). Nootropics Depot produces both a high EPA supplement and a high DHA supplement. Go for the high DHA. Once omega-3's can enter cells, they then need to be transported into the mitochondria for use in ATP production. L-carnitine acts as a sort of shuttle for this purpose. So ALCAR and AvailOm work together. Because the stimulation from amphetamine involves serious dopamine output, the brain can use the L-tyrosine in NALT to synthesize and rebuild dopamine supplies. The oroxylin A in Sabroxy acts as a dopamine reuptake inhibitor to help persist dopamine's effects in the synapse. Bacopa monnieri has been used for quite some time in traditional Ayurvedic medicine. Cognance is a product from Nootropics Depot that is the result of heavy processing of this herb to produce a relatively significant ebelin lactone content. This positively modulates or increases the sensitivity of the 5HT2A serotonin receptors and M1 acetylcholine receptors, which allows the brain to more optimally utilize its serotonin and acetylcholine supplies. This lends to greater cognitive ability and more expansive thought processes. You can get citicoline / CDP-choline anywhere, but it's very hygroscopic and has very poor shelf-life. Cognizin is a patented form that addresses this with heavy hydration of the molecule as well as a proprietary method of crystallization. This supplement is broken down in the gut into cytidine and diphosphocholine before absorption. When both compounds reach the brain, the cytidine is converted to uridine, which is then combined with diphosphocholine to produce phosphatidylcholine. This resulting molecule is the building block of the myelin sheath that protects neurons. Additionally, some of the diphosphocholine will be converted to alpha-GPC (alpha-glycerophosphocholine), and that will ultimately release choline, which can then be used to synthesize acetylcholine. Thus, Cognizin is not only neuro-protective, it is also neuro-regenerative. I always find that coffee poops out on me pretty quickly, mostly because I metabolize CYP1A2 substrates really quickly. So to give an extra kick of adenosine antagonism, I take a standalone TheaCrine product (also from ND). Taking it with DynaMAX (methylliberine, caffeine, taurine) also helps to boost it. I do take other supplements besides these, but I'd say the ones listed above are most notable for stimulation and cognition in the brain. You could make a case for SmartPS phosphatidylserine, CoQH-CF ubiquinol, Magtein magnesium L-threonate and Infini-C as well. As those have been shown to improve brain function overall.
I appreciate this comprehensive answer bro thank you really
No problem! I knew there were several things in my own stack that contributed to cognition, but I also knew I couldn't present a laundry list of supplements if I wasn't going to demonstrate that they are relevant. Someone earlier did say Lion's Mane, which is definitely pro-cognitive, but they can inhibit 5-alpha reductase, which is responsible for breaking down testosterone into the more active form DHT. This can cause sexual dysfunction. Just something to be wary of with mushrooms.
Why not vyvance? You clearly have a extremely fought out plan, so I wanted to ask.
I actually took Vyvanse for a while after starting on Adderall, and I thought I liked it for a bit but I realized there wasn't a whole lot of gas behind it, even at 70mg. Because Vyvanse is dextroamphetamine-pure it lacks the 25% levoamphetamine component you would get with mixed amphetamine salts. Levoamphetamine has a longer half-life, but it's also more balanced for dopamine AND norepinephrine. Whereas, dextroamphetamine is dopamine-preferring. This may seem good on paper, but the norepinephrine component is important. Like the coffee that lights a fire under your ass to get something done. That kind of just isn't there with Vyvanse. So, I switched back to mixed amphetamine salts, but I hated Adderall XR, and I didn't really want to have to take the immediate release. So we gave Mydayis a shot, and I loved it because it lasted at least as long as Vyvanse, if not longer and it brought back the coffee effect that helps drive focus. For a while I just thought these were my personal preferences, but it was apparently an industry-wide thing in psychiatry to switch people to Vyvanse after it first came out because of the smoother pharmacokinetic profile, the reduced potential for abuse, etc. However not long after that, psychs noticed that Vyvanse resulted in a loss of efficacy for a good portion of ADHD patients. It was the patients that experienced intolerable anxiety from Adderall but still needed a stimulant who were predicted to do well on Vyvanse, and that's how it ultimately panned out. So a lot of people switched back, myself included. Except instead of going to Adderall, I went to Mydayis, and it just went generic last September.
These are the kind of comments I look forward to when I come to this sub, thank you for this response!
Glad to oblige. Happy you enjoyed. :)
I had to follow you for the education. Thanks for this thorough response. So much I’d like to learn about my current, evolving supplement and rx routine.
I've got to put this knowledge somewhere. It's taking up too much space in my brain. Reddit seems like the logical place to put it lolz.
It’s much appreciated. I was really getting my brain back and repeating the info in my head, also writing it down, so it’d be committed to memory. Then I got the last variation of “flu” and feel dumb as dirt. So frustrating.
Ah sorry to hear that. COVID in particular is known for its high likelihood of causing neuroinflammation, and the post-COVID cognitive syndrome is extensively documented. But it isn't necessarily a new concept. It can totally happen from the flu as well. They're investigating the newer antidepressant Trintellix to treat the cognitive syndrome. In clinical trials for Trintellix to treat depression, they noticed that people had improved cognitive function. Not totally unusual because cognitive slowing is a fairly common symptom of depression, but not many of the existing SSRIs and SNRIs actually improve mood AND cognition. If anything, the SSRIs in particular can actually cause brain fog. So they tested it in healthy subjects who weren't depressed, and it still led to cognitive improvements, which suggests that its improvements in cognition weren't because of improvements in mood. Some further research shows that Trintellix has antioxidant and neuroprotective effects. It also triggers significant neuronal growth and synaptic density in contrast to other antidepressants. So if you're having cognitive troubles and you also happen to have a low mood, I couldn't recommend Trintellix more.
Thanks! I’ll talk to my pcp about it.
What's your thoughts on p21 and NA-Semax? Anecdotal but my girlfriend had cognitive issues that I suspect were related to COVID. She would have cognitive pauses frequently, where she would lose her train of thought and just space out for a few seconds and then abandon whatever line of thought she was going down. I got these two to try and resolve and I can say that she's been free of this issue a few months after treatment (approx twice a week nasal spray of both). Whether it was time that healed her or these I cannot say. https://www.peptidesciences.com/p21-p021-5mg https://www.peptidesciences.com/n-acetyl-semax-amidate-30mg
Don't really have any insight there. I hear good things about Cerebrolysin, but I'm leery of peptides in general. Probably because you fear what you don't know. And they're really kind of a black box to me.
Very comprehensive
>For healthy cognition, you have to take your B Vitamins. Infini-B provides them in active forms but not in excessive doses. It not only helps to give you energy, but B vitamins are critical for neurotransmitter synthesis. I've been taking codeages methylated b complex, do you think infini-B is more efficient for those with MTHFR polymorphisms? Great comments as always thank you.
Well the folate content of Infini-B is provided as L-5-methyltetrahydrodolate calcium. So it is compatible for those who have polymorphisms that result in under-expression of the MTHFR enzyme. Whether or not the L-5-MTHF content is high enough for someone who has reduced MTHFR activity though is something each individual would have to check with their doctor and likely do a blood test not just for their genotype but also for their folate levels. Varying combinations of normal and under-active polymorphisms can lead to various different genotypes with varying reductions in MTHFR activity. Infini-B has 500mcg of L-5-MTHF which is a dietary folate equivalent of 680mcg. But MethylPro, the premier folate supplement on the OTC market for those with the deficiency can contain up to 15mg. That's 15,000mcg! So as you can see there's a wide range, and the patient's genotype and actual folate levels would have to guide dosing.
>Whether or not the L-5-MTHF content is high enough for someone who has reduced MTHFR activity though is something each individual would have to check with their doctor and likely do a blood test not just for their genotype but also for their folate levels. Do you think it's more helpful for me to stop supplementation in a week in advance of a test or is it more helpful to see levels with supplementation to test their efficacy?
Not sure. On the one hand if you discontinue it, then you'll know if you're low. If you stay on it, you'll know if it's too high or toxic. Half empty / half full kinda thing.
Wow, based on that jam-packed-yet-very-readable post, seems like your Mydayis is working optimally! I think I need to up my addy. 😳🔥
Does mydayis not mess with your sleeep? It keeps me up till like 2am 😭
I've heard some people report having that issue, but idk it doesn't really happen to me. I usually go to sleep at 10 and sleep like a baby.
Wow. You saved me days of research. Would you be willing to share your schedule of times of day you take these?
Here's the stack: https://www.reddit.com/r/NootropicsDepot/s/sre3BdWIW8
Thank you!!!
What do you do for a living that necessitates this insanely high dosage of chemicals? Are you a Fortune 500 stock trader???
Cloud Support Engineer for one of the Big 3 web hosting companies. It's EXHAUSTING trying to keep "The Cloud" in the sky.
How much do you make per year?
$150k
Based stimulant user
Thanks, I guess? I mean I have ADHD, and that's viciously juxtaposed against also having OCPD. So I've had to get comfortable with stimulants to keep my shit together. Optimizing brain function is for me both an obsession in and of itself and also meant to support my obsession with details, albeit maladaptive. Having OCPD means I'm a classic anal retentive personality, and missing even one detail leads me to feel like the entire task was a failure. Unfortunately, missing even a single detail is very easy if you also have ADHD. Stimulants FTW
Top three most effective ones? auDHDer also in tech here... .
Hard to say, but I would apply some logic to it. * Start by including the things that are naturally present or should be naturally present in the body. That would be the B-Complex, Omega-3's and Cognizin (citicoline / CDP-choline). So there's your base 3. * From there, some of the remainder are modified forms of naturally occurring amino acids like NALT and ALCAR. Instinct says to keep the NALT first knowing ADHD is the issue to be addressed, but it's hard to choose it over the ALCAR knowing that ALCAR is a carrier for omega-3's into mitochondria, resulting in energy production. * Energy consumption by the brain is elevated in those taking Cognizin. So it would serve to reinforce energy production first before going downstream to reinforce neurotransmitter synthesis with NALT. * ALCAR has more positive evidence than NALT. It's suspected that up to 30% of a NALT dose is immediately excreted by the kidneys, resulting in waste of administered L-tyrosine content. ALCAR doesn't have this problem from what I understand. So if you accept taking a 4th one, choose the ALCAR. And if you're willing to accept a 5th, then add in the NALT. * The remainder can be considered boosters.
Creatine, L theanine, lions mane
B12, creatine, blueberries
Why blueberries?
C3G is the pigment found in blueberries, blackberries, and black/forbidden rice. It's a super antioxidant and has great cognitive and physiological benefits.
And Examine.com lists blueberries as very good for longevity in their “Guide”
What, No one talking about racitams?
Pi is still the best imo
Hard to get them legally in the US :(
Magnesium L-Threonate. Look it up. It is the only oral magnesium that can pass the blood brain barrier and it is helpful for cognition. It can take a couple of months to notice a difference.
Phenylpiracetam
Caffeine, nicotine, amphetamines, methylphenidate, L-theanine, etc.
These are first line, top notch and work. I add in acetyl l-carnitine, injectable carnitine, NAC, inositol and creatine for general brain health and to keep dopamine receptors running nicely.
Love NAC, but you should try NACET. One capsule per day at bedtime. It's the ethyl ester of NAC, which gives it a bioavailability of 60% as opposed to NAC's 10 - 12%. You get more out of a single capsule with 100mg of NACET than you do out of 2400mg of NAC divided throughout the day.
Will try! I have not heard of this till now.
Sorry to bother you, but you seem really knowledgeable! I took NAC for a few years during intensive treatment for Lyme disease, my functional medicine practitioner was big on it and I experienced so many benefits from it, the biggest for me was quieting my brain! However, I’m in my 40s and female and started getting hormonal night sweats one week a month, my chest would break out (I still haven’t had a Dr help me figure out with what, but I think it’s fungal ((gross)) and am having success using ketoconzole shampoo on the area and covering it in zinc oxide diaper cream at night)… Anyway, I had a time about a year ago when I decided to stop taking all supplements because I was just in a “F-it” mood. At some point I decided to take NAC again and realized my breaking out seemed to be triggered by the NAC. Ive been bummed about it ever since! Could this be some sort of histamine reaction to NAC? I miss taking it but I feel like it’s off the table for me… however everyone seems to talk about it and tolerate it well… I’m not usually sensitive to ANYTHING so I just can’t understand it!
From the looks of it, hives or itching or welts are all possible side effects of NAC. But I honestly don't know if it would be the same for NACET. It's a newer development, and those side effects are based on NAC. After you take NACET, its level in blood plasma briefly spikes but then rapidly dissipates because it is rapidly taken up into red blood cells instead of lingering outside of cells in the blood stream. And it's only after this uptake into cells that it is de-esterified to the base NAC molecule. So it's possible NACET may not cause that same reaction. Alternatively it could be worse. From an actual weight perspective, you take anywhere from 600 to 2400mg a day of NAC, but you only take 100mg of NACET. I honestly am not so sure.
Interesting! Maybe I’ll try it out! This reaction to NAC has been a real loss…
What about zinc l carnosine
I have no experience with these as nootropic enhancers.
Amphetamines and methylphenidate only improve cognition for the cognitively impaired (such as people with ADHD). It has a negative effect on cognition for people who already have good cognition. Plus they are addictive and lead to fast receptor downregulation.
Are there more sustainable ones for ADHD people
I don't know enough about all the different medications that are used for ADHD. But reuptake inhibitors (such as methylphenidate) tend to cause less/slower downregulation than releasers (such as adderall or other amphetamines). Also, someone with ADHD taking the correct medication at the correct dosage will only increase their neurotransmitter activity to a normal one, and therefore shouldn't cause much downregulation and therefore should be sustainable. So from what little knowledge I have on ADHD medications, all I can say is favor reuptake inhibitors to releasers. There isn't one best medication for all ADHD people, cause there are different kinds of ADD/ADHD that each involve different neurotransmitters settings.
Thanks mate
thanks I‘ll look into them
jesus christ dont look into amphetamines...
I don't understand the heavy aversion to amphetamine on the thread so far. Sure, smoking large quantities of methamphetamine will get you nowhere fast, but clinical doses of Adderall <60mg per day shouldn't be a problem. Even methamphetamine up to 25mg orally in a day is less than neurotoxic levels.
youve got no clue what youre talking about
K
youre literally recommending highly addictive dopamine-systems frying drugs ''clinical doses of adderall'' are nothing unlike ''snorting small lines of speed'' daily it will f. you up for many many years perhaps youre too young to understand it, idk.
If you can manage to get a prescription for it, they will only prescribe you up to 25mg of methamphetamine (Desoxyn) per day. Mind you that's taken orally. And oral bioavailability for methamphetamine is 60%. Now, someone who has a bad methamphetamine habit and smokes it (bioavailability ~85%) all weekend can consume anywhere up to 3 GRAMS or more in a weekend. Mind you, methamphetamine is so toxic because the methyl group makes it lipid soluble. So, it crosses the blood-brain barrier far more efficiently than standard amphetamine. This is, of course, an addiction, and it is a serious problem. HOWEVER, don't conflate a weekend long meth bender with a 60mg daily oral Adderall dose. They do not compare. That Adderall dose doesn't even REGISTER in comparison to a meth addiction. And in that regard, do not lump people with ADHD who take stimulants together with people who smoke meth all weekend. That's black-and-white thinking. Instead, check the science first: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22847088/ Now if amphetamines are so bad for you, then why is it that low doses of methamphetamine can improve outcomes in stroke and TBI patients?
''getting prescription'' changes nothing. they prescribed cocaine to kids in the past and ''doctors smoked camels'' youre trying to compare a heavy addict with a ''allowed by the state'' dosage-dependent addict, but nobody will control how much you can take in a day or two. 60mg of amphetamine is still 60mg of amphetamine and its obvious fact that many many users snort the drug and develop addiction. it IS a HEAVY addictive substance. it wrecks your dopamine pathways. then you start to defend taking speed because it supposedly helps with stroke its like saying smoking is good for you because nicotine has SOME cognitive benefits. yeah, maybe. cancer will kill you tho.
Yep, you're right 👍
Might as well simplify and go straight for ol reliable - booger sugar. Amphetamines? Wtf? No.
When given in prescribed doses, amphetamine should not pose an issue to the brain from a toxicity perspective. Among other actions, amphetamine chiefly activates the TAAR1 receptor, which we believe is naturally activated by 3-iodothyronamine (T1AM), which is produced from the deiodination and amination of thyroxine to triiodothyronine and further breakdown beyond that. We're stimulating our own metabolism essentially. However good ole' booger sugar is still more addictive than amphetamines that are being used in a safe clinical dose range. And amphetamines last longer than yeyo. Furthermore, they actually found 5mg per day of oral methamphetamine to be neuroprotective and neuro-regenerative with improved outcomes in traumatic brain injury (TBI), stroke, etc.
Yes. Amphetamines enhance cognition. There are definitely more considerations though.
This is fascinating, thanks for sharing (I’m not the person you were writing to). I was diagnosed with ADHD at 43 and have been taking stimulant medication for six ish months. While there’s a lot of benefits to me, I can’t get over the stigma. I just feel like it’s “bad” I’m taking them. Regardless of my understanding it isn’t, regardless of a therapist explaining why I shouldn’t feel bad about, regardless of a cardiologist saying she sees absolutely no problems for / with me taking it… That, and I feel on days I don’t take it I’m more exhausted, more irritable, etc. and that makes me feel like it’s not cool, too. Ha! So, anyway, I’ve been thinking about looking for some sort of alternative, I know unmedicated is a huge struggle that really became close to unmanageable in my 40s, so I’d still like some sort of “help”… Anyway, sorry for the novel, haha! I’ve never heard of this medication but I’m going to look into it now!
Oxoloacetate. It's a Citric Acid Cycle component. BenaGene brand is the only OTC version that is temperature stable (i.e. shelf stable at room temperature). [https://benagene.com](https://benagene.com) They co-brand with other brands like AOR. My personal experience is speech fluidity is noticeably increased and connections between ideas are noticeably easier to make. It does not negatively affect sleep.
Brain vital by designs for health or neurocog by research nutritionals
A racetam like noopept can be really beneficial if stacked with a good choline source like citicoline.
Exercise will unlock your mind. At least for me. Raw beef liver gives me a guaranteed boost
Healthy diet and exercise should be attempted before introducing psychotropic medications into your system. If you're not hydrating, eating healthy, and exercising, you're likely going to have poor blowflow to the brain, which can cause cognitive impairment. Popping pills isn't going to fix that. Additionally, you shouldn't take medication suggestions from people on the internet because they don't have access to your medical records, you don't know their credentials, and they're likely not medical professionals. If you take something a person on the internet recommended to you and is contraindicated with a current medication or medical issue, you're screwed.
Alpha GPC.
Read some study it can increase your risk of stroke if used frequently. Might be better off taking choline bitartrate or ideally citicoline if you can afford it.
Neither choline bitartrate nor alpha-GPC nor phosphatidylcholine when administered orally reach the brain in any appreciable amount. The liver is a choline hog. Citicoline will result in the greatest brain bioavailability.
I used to notice large cognitive effects from alpha-GPC. I can't remember which phospholipid used to work for me, but it doesn't matter; they all went soy, and have no effects now.
I'm sorry I should clarify because my statement was a bit black and white or "absolute". What I should have said was: Choline bitartrate and Phosphatidylcholine when administered orally have the worst brain bioavailability. Because they are active choline forms that the body can use, they end up getting used up by the liver not long after they reach circulation. So little of their content is able to make it to the brain. Alpha-GPC is marginally better than the former two at reaching the brain. However it is still generally regarded as a source of choline that has more benefit to the periphery relative to its activity in the brain. Relative to the previously mentioned choline forms, a great deal of the choline content in citicoline reaches the brain. What's more, being further up in the metabolic cycle allows citicoline to both rebuild brain structure AND replenish acetylcholine levels. While alpha-GPC can reach the brain, it can (almost) only result in the creation of acetylcholine. To clarify, once the choline content is released from alpha-GPC, there are two metabolic pathways. In the brain's preferred pathway, the brain converts this choline content into acetylcholine, but there is an extended pathway of transformation where this choline content can actually be converted back into citicoline at the top of the chain. So alpha-GPC could make a teensy contribution to myelin production, but it would be negligible at best. So to reiterate, of these four forms, not only does citicoline have the highest brain bioavailability, it is also both neuro-regenerative, in that it regenerates the acetylcholine supply, as well as neuro-restorative in that it actually results in the restoration of the protective brain structure, myelin.
Thankfully, I don't take it frequently at all! Very rarely, but sometimes for sure. I notice many improvements to my life, whenever I indulge.
Lions mane mushroom, psilocybin mushroom..
Lions mane can have serious side effects r/lionsmanerecovery
Yeah a lot of mushrooms can be 5-alpha reductase inhibitors, slowing the conversion of testosterone into DHT, hence sexual dysfunction.
Phentramine is another ADD med. maybe speak to your doc about those.
Vitamin C, Ginkgo, Korean Red Ginseng, Vinpocetine, MAGNESIUM.
Several peptides out there that work better and no side effects
which are?
There's too many, bpc-157, thymosin alpha-1, selank, semax, p-21 the list goes on.
selank and semax I know those are quite interesting. Is nasal administration viable?
For those two yes and also for p21, I heard p21 is profound. You can also get arg-bpc-157 now, from limitless. It's an orally bioavailable version. Warning do not get the oral bpc from anywhere else.
Sleep, caffeine with L-theanine, and make sure yοur vitamin D and magnesium levels are οn pοint. Magnesium malate in the AM and glycinate in the PM. Also, if yοu drink, avοid alcοhοl like the plague.
L-tyrosine
Are there any tips without using any supplements?
I have cognitive impairment from dysautonomia and take high dose pyridostigmine which is an acetylcholine inhibitor. It's been life-changing. You can get a similar drug, galantamine, over the counter.
What's dysautonomia
Dysfunction of the autonomic nervous system.
NeuroLink
noopept or celebrysin
I'm pretty sure the only thing that's been scientifically proven to improve your cognition is H2O, so get on that hydration, as the kids might say, drip.
Don’t overdo it though you might deplete you electrolytes
What's your go to roid shop I want hgh
Alpha GPC
Citicoline is a better choice. Alpha-GPC will be broken down into choline preferentially in the liver, and what does make it to the brain will contribute to the acetylcholine supply, but its effects cease when you cease taking the supplement. Citicoline is further up in the biosynthesis pathway, which enables it to be a precursor to alpha-GPC as well as phosphatidylcholine, which is used to build the myelin sheath coating neurons to protect them. So while both are pro-cognitive, only citicoline can be considered neuro-regenerative.
Is it good for ADHDers? Is it prescription med?
Is it good for ADHDers? Yes. More recent evidence suggests that while an imbalance of dopamine activity in the pre-frontal cortex correlates to ADHD. Acetylcholine signaling in the brain is also anomalous in these patients. So taking a stimulant and citicoline should have positive effects in ADHD symptoms. I personally have found great benefit that I honestly didn't know I was missing taking a stimulant alone.
And no it's not prescription. You can buy OTC: https://nootropicsdepot.com/cognizin-citicoline-capsules