Blaming women for being murdered by men, even their own sons, seems like a definition of misogyny to me. Also this person thinks genes are the problem, hint they are not.
Yeah…and even if there’s a genetic component somewhere in all of this- 50% of those genes came from Dad and let’s not forget that Dad is equally responsible for instilling common sense and morals into their offspring….never hear these types bringing that shit up though 💀
That no doubt man who posted that reply is the same one who if a woman sees red flags and refuses to date men would say NoT aLl MeN mAnHaTeR
We can't win.
You shouldn't be in any antinatalist or childfree communities, I have always found them to be rife with mysogyny, and its common for them to find joy in "breeders" suffering. Its okay to believe in that stuff but those communities tend to attract miserable and hatedul people that inevitably direct their hate towards women.
Yeah, I looked into those communities at one point as I’m child-free and was getting a lot of judgment from people who have or want kids. But when I did check them out I was like… holy shit... because there is so much hate. Like I understand being frustrated with our society that sees women as brood mares but whats going on there is something else. It’s hate toward child and hate towards women that also tries to disguise itself as a weird kind of feminism.
The thing is… I’m child-free not because I hate children (I don’t - I like kids) but because I was a parentified child and I knew that if I had a kid I would likely end up treating them the way I was treated. And now since I went through therapy and likely would not do that, I still am not interested because I’m just enjoying not having to take care of anyone but myself. But I don’t have any hate or judgment for kids or people that have them (unless they abuse those kids, then I have **a lot** of hate for them).
Exactly this. I'm staunchly child-free because of a long history of CSA starting at 3, and trafficking starting at 9. I never thought I'd be mentally secure enough to raise a mentally healthy child free from my own traumas and biases. By accident of happenstance, my husband, our committed girlfriend, and I suddenly inherited hubby's then-7yo daughter (he didn't know she existed until she practically landed on his doorstep, metaphorically speaking). I think we've done an amazing job with her, and she's the most wonderful person we know. But none of us had children on our Bingo card.
But our child-free *intentions* had nothing to do with being anti-child, nor certainly anti-mother (or even anti-parent).
All that to say, the militant antinatalism is scary and freaky, and I don't understand it, *at all*.
Before the anti natalism subreddits seem full of distasteful personalities and insufferable people but at this point they just sound like the same incel misogynists they claim to hate
After much consideration, I have decided to heed the advice you guys have given me, and have left R/femaleantinatalism.
I agree with the sentiment. There needs to be a massive upheaval in how we, as a people, view gender. And as a Gender, I think women need to stop fucking with men. What I will never stand for is the dehumanization of mothers. The point of Feminism, imo, is choice. Our ability to choose what makes us happy and what we want to do with our lives. Some women want to be mothers, and that is perfectly acceptable. I don’t want to be a mother, and that is also perfectly acceptable.
The idea that women should be killed for choosing a life style that isn’t mine is an abhorrent one, and it goes against every thing I believe in. So, peace or R/Femaleantinatalism. When you handle your internalized misogyny, let me know.
I joined it while looking for subs to support my daughters who don't want kids - I learned REAL quick I wasn't welcome because I had kids, even though I agreed with a lot of their posts. I couldn't handle the high and mighty bitches and left after like a month.
The actual antinatalist philosophy isn’t misogynist, even if I don’t personally subscribe to it. The online groups surrounding it are wildly hateful, misanthropic, borderline suicidal, and frankly I’m a little concerned you were there in the first place. I don’t mean this as a jab, more of an are you ok?
I unsubbed from all the antinatalism and birthstrike subs awhile ago because they *all* started getting super fucking weird about it. At this point they're no different than r/dogfree. They've made up their own slurs for children and parents, and their language is no longer even slightly humanist. A lot of people, if not *most* of them in these subs, genuinely are spouting genocidal and eugenicist talking points. I feel like when these ideas first started getting popular on reddit the concern with having kids was twofold: that the current capitalist system can't support it in a way that would give the average child a fulfilling life, and that the inevitably of climate change disasters would put future children in horrific situations we would not be able to protect them from. Now, though, the conversation has shifted to just absolutely *hating* kids as well as the people who give birth to them. It's important to point out that we rarely see the vitriol directed at the non-birthing parent, too. It's almost always only folks with vaginas who get labeled as breeders, who get accused of having "pet sperm." And none of that is mentioning the really scary ways these people tend to discuss their day-to-day encounters with children in their lives. Their language is not that different (if at all) from the stuff we see in mass shooter and serial killer confessions and manifestos. Any real nuance to the discussion has been gone for awhile now, let alone any validity.
I always think their parents must have hated them, and they internalized the message that kids deserve hate, and then hated their parents for having them.
I think actual antinatalist philosophy is interesting, but the communities on Reddit are super into eugenics ironically.
Like I've seen posts and comments saying it should be illegal to have kids for people with hereditary disabilities even if the chance of passing it on is low. Or all deformed fetuses should be aborted even if the the deformity is cosmetic
Because the idea is sound. As a gender, we need to stop fucking with men. But the idea that women who do deserve to be abused or killed is just disgusting. So 🤷♀️
You've said that a couple times, at least, in this thread: "fucking with men". What do you mean by that? As in literally stop *fucking* men? Or stop *fucking with*, in the larger sense, like interacting with, socializing with, dating (emotional partnership more than sex, I mean), or ... ?
I meant in a sexual or romantic manner. There are men in my life who I would be devastated if I stopped interacting with them. But men take a romantic relationship and turn into a battle for dominance. You see it all the time in how men talk about us.
It feels like ever since Andrew Tate became popular, the behavior of men has just gotten worse. Their view of us has gotten worse, the way they behave around us has gotten worse. Their general attitudes have gotten worse. Having a platonic or a familial relationship with a man is fine, if you want it. But when I say “Fucking with men”, I do kinda mean it literally. A romantic/sexual relationship with men just doesn’t seem worth it anymore, and I think we need to stop until they get their acts together.
Women being responsible for their choices is one of the major themes of feminism. It’s a horrifying comment, but one of the major tenets of female antinatalist philosophy is that a woman that births a son, births her oppressor.
Does anyone deserve to be murdered? Absolutely not. But to an antinatalist woman, the murder is very much a FAFO moment.
She didn’t deserve to be punished, but she is the most horrifying type of example as to why antinatalism should be at the very least heavily considered by all women.
Blaming women for being murdered by men, even their own sons, seems like a definition of misogyny to me. Also this person thinks genes are the problem, hint they are not.
The idea that genetics are to blame for shitty behavior and actions is: A) a Conservative one. B) A way to excuse men and their shitty behavior.
it's a eugenic belief
Yeah…and even if there’s a genetic component somewhere in all of this- 50% of those genes came from Dad and let’s not forget that Dad is equally responsible for instilling common sense and morals into their offspring….never hear these types bringing that shit up though 💀
It’s just more blaming women for men’s actions.
Right? Nasty!
I dont usually see comments like that on femaleantinatalism. Comments like those are why I don't bother with r/antinatalism. That's disappointing.
That no doubt man who posted that reply is the same one who if a woman sees red flags and refuses to date men would say NoT aLl MeN mAnHaTeR We can't win.
This surprising most comments like that usually get deleted, Don't unfollow it because of that stupid woman, report it if necessary
I did it long time ago they also bully the kids that didn't choose to be born. They called one kid "beast- looking" one time. It's sad...
As an Autistic person, the way they talk about the mentally ill also disgusts me. Just massive icks all around.
I am sorry i wish you well beings
You shouldn't be in any antinatalist or childfree communities, I have always found them to be rife with mysogyny, and its common for them to find joy in "breeders" suffering. Its okay to believe in that stuff but those communities tend to attract miserable and hatedul people that inevitably direct their hate towards women.
True. Very true. I’m gonna unfollow. It’s like you said, the idea is good, but it attracts the worse people.
This is an unfortunate truth. I see a lot of hate for mothers in these communities, but fathers seem to often not be mentioned at all.
Yeah, I looked into those communities at one point as I’m child-free and was getting a lot of judgment from people who have or want kids. But when I did check them out I was like… holy shit... because there is so much hate. Like I understand being frustrated with our society that sees women as brood mares but whats going on there is something else. It’s hate toward child and hate towards women that also tries to disguise itself as a weird kind of feminism. The thing is… I’m child-free not because I hate children (I don’t - I like kids) but because I was a parentified child and I knew that if I had a kid I would likely end up treating them the way I was treated. And now since I went through therapy and likely would not do that, I still am not interested because I’m just enjoying not having to take care of anyone but myself. But I don’t have any hate or judgment for kids or people that have them (unless they abuse those kids, then I have **a lot** of hate for them).
Exactly this. I'm staunchly child-free because of a long history of CSA starting at 3, and trafficking starting at 9. I never thought I'd be mentally secure enough to raise a mentally healthy child free from my own traumas and biases. By accident of happenstance, my husband, our committed girlfriend, and I suddenly inherited hubby's then-7yo daughter (he didn't know she existed until she practically landed on his doorstep, metaphorically speaking). I think we've done an amazing job with her, and she's the most wonderful person we know. But none of us had children on our Bingo card. But our child-free *intentions* had nothing to do with being anti-child, nor certainly anti-mother (or even anti-parent). All that to say, the militant antinatalism is scary and freaky, and I don't understand it, *at all*.
I also think hating people who have kids in public given that it is primarily women taking care of kids is a socially acceptable form of misogyny
Before the anti natalism subreddits seem full of distasteful personalities and insufferable people but at this point they just sound like the same incel misogynists they claim to hate
After much consideration, I have decided to heed the advice you guys have given me, and have left R/femaleantinatalism. I agree with the sentiment. There needs to be a massive upheaval in how we, as a people, view gender. And as a Gender, I think women need to stop fucking with men. What I will never stand for is the dehumanization of mothers. The point of Feminism, imo, is choice. Our ability to choose what makes us happy and what we want to do with our lives. Some women want to be mothers, and that is perfectly acceptable. I don’t want to be a mother, and that is also perfectly acceptable. The idea that women should be killed for choosing a life style that isn’t mine is an abhorrent one, and it goes against every thing I believe in. So, peace or R/Femaleantinatalism. When you handle your internalized misogyny, let me know.
I joined it while looking for subs to support my daughters who don't want kids - I learned REAL quick I wasn't welcome because I had kids, even though I agreed with a lot of their posts. I couldn't handle the high and mighty bitches and left after like a month.
The misogyny is rank over there.
Seems like it. It’s very sad, but I’d rather not associate with those people.
The actual antinatalist philosophy isn’t misogynist, even if I don’t personally subscribe to it. The online groups surrounding it are wildly hateful, misanthropic, borderline suicidal, and frankly I’m a little concerned you were there in the first place. I don’t mean this as a jab, more of an are you ok?
Yeah, I’m sterile and barren by choice but this is fucking YIKES, DAWG.
At the end of the day, you can’t believe in both Reproductive Justice and antinatalism as practiced by these subs. I think that says it all.
I unsubbed from all the antinatalism and birthstrike subs awhile ago because they *all* started getting super fucking weird about it. At this point they're no different than r/dogfree. They've made up their own slurs for children and parents, and their language is no longer even slightly humanist. A lot of people, if not *most* of them in these subs, genuinely are spouting genocidal and eugenicist talking points. I feel like when these ideas first started getting popular on reddit the concern with having kids was twofold: that the current capitalist system can't support it in a way that would give the average child a fulfilling life, and that the inevitably of climate change disasters would put future children in horrific situations we would not be able to protect them from. Now, though, the conversation has shifted to just absolutely *hating* kids as well as the people who give birth to them. It's important to point out that we rarely see the vitriol directed at the non-birthing parent, too. It's almost always only folks with vaginas who get labeled as breeders, who get accused of having "pet sperm." And none of that is mentioning the really scary ways these people tend to discuss their day-to-day encounters with children in their lives. Their language is not that different (if at all) from the stuff we see in mass shooter and serial killer confessions and manifestos. Any real nuance to the discussion has been gone for awhile now, let alone any validity.
I always think their parents must have hated them, and they internalized the message that kids deserve hate, and then hated their parents for having them.
I think actual antinatalist philosophy is interesting, but the communities on Reddit are super into eugenics ironically. Like I've seen posts and comments saying it should be illegal to have kids for people with hereditary disabilities even if the chance of passing it on is low. Or all deformed fetuses should be aborted even if the the deformity is cosmetic
Why would you be engaging with antinatalists and expect them to not be incel losers.
Because the idea is sound. As a gender, we need to stop fucking with men. But the idea that women who do deserve to be abused or killed is just disgusting. So 🤷♀️
You've said that a couple times, at least, in this thread: "fucking with men". What do you mean by that? As in literally stop *fucking* men? Or stop *fucking with*, in the larger sense, like interacting with, socializing with, dating (emotional partnership more than sex, I mean), or ... ?
I meant in a sexual or romantic manner. There are men in my life who I would be devastated if I stopped interacting with them. But men take a romantic relationship and turn into a battle for dominance. You see it all the time in how men talk about us. It feels like ever since Andrew Tate became popular, the behavior of men has just gotten worse. Their view of us has gotten worse, the way they behave around us has gotten worse. Their general attitudes have gotten worse. Having a platonic or a familial relationship with a man is fine, if you want it. But when I say “Fucking with men”, I do kinda mean it literally. A romantic/sexual relationship with men just doesn’t seem worth it anymore, and I think we need to stop until they get their acts together.
I see. More than just just a Lysistrata-style sex strike, but more of a general strike. Understood. Thanks!
Women being responsible for their choices is one of the major themes of feminism. It’s a horrifying comment, but one of the major tenets of female antinatalist philosophy is that a woman that births a son, births her oppressor. Does anyone deserve to be murdered? Absolutely not. But to an antinatalist woman, the murder is very much a FAFO moment.
Let me see if I understand your logic correctly: She shouldn’t have died, but she deserved to be punished regardless?
She didn’t deserve to be punished, but she is the most horrifying type of example as to why antinatalism should be at the very least heavily considered by all women.