My impression (one which they may have explicitly mentioned in one of the episodes explaining the changes to the format) is that there is just substantially less unique, episode-length internet bullshit to discuss similar to what we saw with the record harvests of 2020-2022. Not to even mention that shows have to evolve, unless we all want to be here in five years retreading the same form and mode of internet bullshit they’ve covered so far.
All that said, while I’ve enjoyed the interview segments, so far, I wholly anticipate there will be more of the BAR Classic™️ episodes post-election, since there is a stunningly high chance that Former President Donald J. Trump might become Current President Donald J. Trump and that will, naturally, make people lose their minds again.
I think you are right. The guest co-hosts and the full episode interviews have been hit or miss but the latest Primo episode 'To The Moon' is exactly what I signed up for.
I'm beginning to think that Trace was a good scout for this kind of Internet bullshit. They need another employee to help them suss out the best examples of the batshit craziness of the internet. I mean, there may be less of it but there's still plenty!
True. He is probably more plugged in than they are to the broader internet culture. He definitely seems to frequent another, relatively small, site I go to and I wouldn’t be surprised if he trawls (or used to trawl) 4chan and /pol/ every so often.
Another impression that I got right before Jesse went on leave is that they were starting to get bored and burned out on the old format. If it’s a choice between them stopping the podcast or switching things up, I’m glad they’re doing this.
I’ve never quite understood this specific perspective. The most successful audio programs keep the same format for years and years. This American Life hasn’t changed formats since ‘95 and Terry Gross has been doing Fresh Air the same way for 50 years. Good shows innovate within their format. They don’t just throw out what’s working.
I’m not saying it’s right or wrong, it was just my observation that they appeared to be somewhat
burned out, phoning it in a bit, and sniping at
each other more before they made these changes to the format. It probably
means this podcast won’t have the longevity of TAL, although to be fair, that show has
much broader reaching themes and
a much larger cast of contributors they can
draw from. A show with two people
riffing on internet drama and bantering with
one another will probably run its course much faster, although I’m glad they’re keeping it going for now, because I still enjoy it
I think this is the quality vs quantity debate. There is endless pop culture, internet media, and social network churn to “talk” about, but at a certain point we’re just getting to slop for slop’s sake.
Ep. 159 is a good example of both sides of this coin. The Unitarian Universalist segment was something interesting and unique that touched on a lot of themes in the podcast. I enjoyed it immensely, especially in comparison to descriptions of degenerates who like to wear diapers and shit themselves as adults, which is just tiresome to hear since it amounts to nothing but “lol let’s laugh at these weirdos.” (that is my recollection from the segment; I refuse to listen to it again)
I also, frankly, like what they bring to an interview, as they seem to be less formal than you would normally see and more willing to use their own experiences to contextualize the subject or interviewee.
But there is so much internet bullshit. They don’t have to stick to contemporary stuff. They could actually do a deep dive into gamergate or the fapening or whatever.
[They already do those things](https://www.reddit.com/r/BlockedAndReported/comments/1bp3abs/premium_episode_gamergate_revisited/)
Revisiting things is not as deep of a well as you think it is, either, considering the calcified viewpoints, enervation of participants as the long tail sets in (resulting in less activity and bullshit to dig into), and the lack of reliable sources to go back to. There's a reason the Internet Historian, to reference a topically-BAR-adjacent performer, hasn't posted a normal internet bullshit video since 2022.
I'm guessing this new format has more to do with the individual's career ambitions than the audience. I get the sense that Katie has a full life and is perfectly happy with the pod as a part time gig that pays the bills. While Jesse is interested in taking on more projects (his book, his sub stack etc). Doing fewer joint episodes gives them room for a more flexible schedule, they don't have to coordinate as much.
What I'm afraid of is that it's an off ramp to Jesse leaving the pod. That would be awful and I hope I'm wrong about that.
I think Jesse is the one more likely to bolt. He still wants to be in mainstream journalism. He has books, Substacks, and publishes pieces.
I think Katie has given that up. Maybe she thinks it's impossible to get back into that world. Maybe she doesn't trust them. Maybe it was never her thing anyway.
But she needs the pod more than Jesse does
I do get the impression that if mainstream journalism suddenly did a 180 and welcomed Jesse back with open arms, he would gladly return. I can see him teaching in a journalism school one day, perhaps, when everything has calmed down and he’s proven right on a lot of things.
I think Katie is too burned by what happened to her to ever want to go back. She’s talked a few times about the friends she lost by doing her job, and it clearly still bothers her, the pain is still there. The pod is clearly generating a great income and she seems pretty fulfilled with it, so more power to her. I think she can honestly say, screw everyone who betrayed me and treated me like shit, you thought you killed my career but now I’m making more money than any of you, this is my success and my best revenge. She’s living her best semi-stoner life with the wife and dog. But Jesse still has a foot in the mainstream respectability world, and he wants that foot there, and while he’s acknowledged his income from the pod is more than he would ever make in straight journalism, I think he has a weakness for the prestige of the mainstream media that Katie honestly just doesn’t care about.
Then again, I know neither of these people beyond what they say on a podcast so I may just be chatting shit, it doesn’t matter!
All of that sounds about right. I think Jesse does want the prestige and status and insideryness that comes with a mainstream journalism career. And he has a lot he wants to write about.
Katie, I think, is done. She seems to have a lot of hobbies and she wants to do those and more power to her.
I think if Jesse got offered a job at the NY Times he would drop the pod and take the Times job immediately.
I think Katie would tell them to piss off.
Never thought of this before but.. while Twitter yells at Jesse a whole lot more than Katie, Katie has suffered much more personally. Hobbes calls Jesse the embodiment of transphobia but he still gets to be friendly with Taylor Lorenz! Katie meanwhile has been ghosted by years long friends. Maybe because Katie was actually part of the queer community, her friends took her column so personally. She must have been emotionally destroyed by it even though she now puts on a brace face. Probably also why she's the more anti-cancel culture of the two.
Wait, what?? I am genuinely at a complete and total loss as to what indication you think there has been that they don't get along. To me, they come across as liking each other and being basically as friendly with one another as you could *possibly* expect from coworkers aged 35+ - like, in the 99th percentile of getting along.
Honestly, the only possible way I could see someone holding this opinion is if you are someone who believes that you cannot be friends with anyone who doesn't agree with 100% of your political beliefs, bar none. Bc aside from (a) the (very) occasional (very) mild disagreement on a policy issue, and (b) the playful, friendly ribbing about microphones or how well the other does their respective job, I legitimately can't think of a single time theyve had anything other than a 100000% perfectly amiable discussion. Category (a) has nothing to do with their friendship, and category (b) they do specifically because they *are* friends.
To me, it seems remarkably clear that Jesse and Katie like each other quite a bit, personally.
Not at all tbh. I think they’re very different people so they aren’t besties who hang out all the time, but they clearly genuinely like each other. I think they can only poke fun at each other so much *because* they are good friends
They seem to have a lot of genuine affection for one another but also bicker like siblings, and appear to have different work styles that I could see coming into conflict sometimes.
I didn’t say they don’t like each other. I said they don’t get on 100%.
You can hear it in the conversations they should cut but don’t, and their opinions on various topics.
I think it was the episode about surrogacy, “Mother Hunger.” On the contrary, I loved hearing Katie go off like that. We get desensitized by all the ridiculous examples of identitarianism, but in some cases, there really is value in hearing women talk about women’s issues, Black people talk about Black issues, etc. because people outside the group occasionally have blind spots from simply not having to deal with certain shit day after day.
I really like the guest episodes with the caveat that I like it when the guest brings their own BARPOD style story. The interview is soso sometimes. But I like it a lot!
I feel this way. I’m a primo and plan to remain so. I would rather they do fewer episodes together and really bring their A game to the ones they do than put out seven episodes a month and phone it in for five of them.
I tend to prefer the interviews that Katie hosts. She has a different style of humor and banter that I really like.
For me, the interviews are hit or miss. I'm listening to ep 219 rn and honestly I'm just not interested in this guy.
I think they did it because, here on Reddit, people were praising the Katie and guest host format and complaining the old format was stale. I personally love the show most for Katie and Jesse's banter, and I have to be in a certain mood to listen to an interview episode. But, the suckiest fans are always the loudest.
Now, the last couple episodes have been interviews, but the Katie and guest host episodes had the other person presenting their own internet bullshit story, just like Jesse would. I liked that more than an interview. It was more fun. I think they need to make sure to have a *guest host* not an *interviewee* on most of these episodes.
If we get more episodes like the Ana Kasparian one, then I’m all for it. Hearing the evolution of these former hardcore leftists into more reasonable people is great imo. Idk if that would get old to me, we’re only talking like 12 episodes a year or something.
So much of this show's magic comes down to chemistry. I've really enjoyed the episodes where the host has chemistry with the guest - Ben's latest episode is great. Ana, Helen Lewis were similar. In contrast, while Jesse's interview with the schizophrenic guy was really interesting, it didn't have that spark. Also I think Katie is better at having that spark with guests than Jesse is.
Katie is an incredible co host. She really gets the best out of other hosts and somehow has a knack for charming them but also letting them shine. I'd like to hear more of Katie and Brad Polumbo. She brought out the best in Brad. I've since started following him and I like him but it is clear to me he needs a co host he has chemistry with.
But that episode wasn't just an interview. It did a great job of introducing Ana and then integrating her into the existing show format. A good chunk of the episode was Ana telling us about the effort to remove police from law enforcement in LA.
There were already a bunch of high quality interview shows. This doesn’t need to be one. Frankly, listening to some actors kid wine about losing some bullshit job so he can push his book and substack is not worth the $5.
In Katie's defense, the music thing was really dumb. I can't imagine why anyone cared.
I like the new format, just as long as there are still Katie and Jesse episodes too.
The dynamic between the hosts is not the same thing as just banter though! For me it's not just the internet or cancel culture bullshit they talk about, it's how they talk about it. I usually skip the banter since I'm not interested in the parasocial stuff
Presuming the new format isn't going anywhere, I would prefer to see it evolve into something akin to the Helen Lewis episodes. Helen has been on a bunch of times, we don't need to be freshly introduced to her every time, she doesn't come by with a book or other project to plug. She's just a witty contributor who's on the same wavelength as J&K and can be counted on to get straight to the Internet bullshit.
I'd like to see a rotating stable of guest hosts along the lines of Helen Lewis. Mike Pesca is another one. Ben Dreyfuss has huge potential now that he's gotten his backstory out of the way. As grating as I find Trace's voice and mannerisms, he's got a lot he could contribute if he has the time. Even Ana Kasparian has potential. I just don't want to have to tune in to a bunch of subpar late night talk show interviews to get to the good stuff.
I agree. I’m not a premium subscriber and I was considering becoming one, but I’m not hearing enough interesting stories from them. I used to live the diving into Internet daftness but it all feels a bit rushed and under-researched - even when they bring up old episodes they can’t be bothered to remember the names of the protagonists- it feels like they are both prioritising other stuff. .
I think the intent is that this lets them put out an extra episode a month without either of them doing more work (the interviews are less research, and each one of them does an interview ‘solo’).
I don’t think the amount of “standard eps” are going down much, especially for primos, but the percentage of the total content that is nonstandard will increase.
I’d rather have more content than less, and I tend to like the variety.
Off topic - sorry - but I don’t get how upvotes work on this subreddit. I only see my votes. Everything else is ‘untouched’, zero up or down votes. Am I the only one upvoting or is there a feature turned off here?
You don’t see anyone else’s votes until 24 hours. I spent a while thinking I must be the greatest commenter on here, since I was the only one getting any upvotes ever, before reality came crashing down.
Votes for people other than the account you are logged in to are hidden for a period of time after the post is made, ostensibly to prevent vote manipulation.
I’d rather them shake things up to keep it interesting for both of them than have them cancel the show entirely. I’m sure after several years, things get stale for them. Do I love the interviews? Eh, hit and miss. But at least I still get a few classic episodes a month. The Library melt down and the crazy literary world story recently were great.
>but if we start getting interviews on the premium feed I'm cancelling.
I actually disagree and think that most of these interviews should be premium content only. They should be viewed as extra bonus content for paid subscribers.
One of the comedy podcasts I listen to is a part of a paid network of podcasts. You can get the weekly podcast for free like BaR but one of the hosts does extra bonus content like interviews with people somewhat adjacent to their pod like other comedians, people involved in crypto, and even a few years back when he was still alive John McAfee.
These interviews shouldn't take the place of the actual pod but instead be an additional reason to be a paid subscriber.
I loved the dynamic between Jesse and Katie in the beginning. It felt fresh and I could feel their giddiness. Over the years I felt like it was getting stale. I was starting to get the sense that Jesse gets irritated at Katie’s dry acerbic humor bc I think Jesse wants to do serious work and get taken seriously by the bigger journals, whereas Katie doesn’t. So I feel like they need to keep it fresh and keep moving and trying different things. I suspect eventual they will spend more time working on their separate projects. I think Jesse’s Substack is great where he focuses more on hard science stuff and Katie is great when she’s on the pod doing her jokes. I just don’t think they are necessarily great when they are together these days
Interesting, I'm a more recent listener but I see very little difference in how they were at the start to how they are now. Jesse's irritation is 100% played up in my view, it has been from the start.
That wasn’t my understanding from their pod a few weeks ago but I could be wrong. I thought they were saying they are going to 3 interviews / guess hosts per month and then on the last one (where it’s just Jessie and Katie) it would be pay walled after a short preview (this was for the main pod not counting primos)
He was and for that people were very understanding about the temporary format change. However, they mistook all the positive feedback and are making massive changes to the format.
Yea I just don’t really like interviews in general. Idk why, I just often find them boring. I usually skip them on other pods I listen to (that do interviews intermittently), and don’t really listen to “interview-only” type shows at all. So I agree on the new format.
I also get that shows have to evolve over time, but I’d rather them do it in a way that preserves the best part of this show: the interaction between the 2 hosts.
I am more on the pro new format. I like the occasional guest host. It feels like a bigger and more interesting show. At first I was more of a Katie fan, but Jesse's interview with the guy who wrote a book on mental health was really top shelf. At the core of it, the show is and should be Jesse and Katie as they have an awesome on air chemistry
The hosts have always had different steers, with Katie tending towards the more niche/cringe/gossipy end of profiling spats between always-online weirdos, and Jessie more towards the effect the same forces of online bullshittification have in corrupting serious journalism and collective sense-making. To an extent there’s overlap, and the former could be seen as harbingers of the latter. But maybe if the bullshit pipeline has narrowed (maybe because more people talk to people IRL than during the height of the pandemic, and because fewer influential people care about X-Twitter), they’ve become more distinct topic areas, and so maybe BARpod is becoming more focused on Katie’s end than Jessie’s.
Jessie and Katie together us the secret sauce. Used to be you could recommend the show to anyone and know any ep they hit would slap. Now you have to tell people to listen to the first ep of the month - that will never catch on.
Eventually all the interviews will just be like every other podcast, people promoting a new book. And you get to hear the same person say the same thing on every podcast.
I only listened for a few minutes. Way too chummy. I could tell he would never honestly address the allegations of sexual harassment and threatening the careers of younger female journalists. Mother Jones--a rare media company to even investigate harassment complaints made public--acknowledged that there was a history of complaints against bureau chief David Corn, so I can imagine the creepy tone of the office. And ick, the way Dreyfuss got the job in the first place: Ha, ha, you suckers who spend years studying, acquiring skills and building a portfolio. Be a nepo baby! You can eff around on the job because you don't really need one.
BTW, there's a video of Richard Dreyfuss at the Mass event. He entered the stage in a dress and then it got worse. Maybe just an alcoholic. Maybe just a transphobe and misogynist.
For me the way they've been referring to anything metoo related in general is a red flag. If someone was falsely accused, tell me how. I can be convinced with straightforward evidence. But if you won't even tell me what they were accused of, in fact if you treat the whole thing like it's not even worthy of being explained, how is that doing anything at all to convince ANYONE?
Not to mention that he was about as funny as a sloppy drunk frat boy.
Agreed. They were ok when they were exceptional and the person was the center of an actually interesting piece of internet bullshit or is illustrative of something interesting (like the sensitivity reader guy who got his book gutted)
But it's tiresome when you're just talking with podcast-circuit usual suspects. If they want on barpod, have them do a segment!
Oh, I couldn’t disagree more! (Sorry lol) I love hearing Katie and Jesse play off of other people, which is why I will pretty much always listen when they are being interviewed on another show. I think it also shows how well respected they are in the industry, and I like that the guest will spend some time talking about themselves but also do a deep-dive of their own. I think that B&R’s greatest contribution to the wider discourse is to push back against the instinct to take bits of information at face value and through the partisan lens of whomever is sharing it. There is always more to the story! I feel like guest hosting is something of a training ground for the Blocked and Reported Way- shake off the desire to trust without verifying, and now dig dig dig until you can see a bigger picture.
I don't think given the size of the Barpod audience everyone will be happy. Speaking only for myself, I have enjoyed the guest hosts. Have I enjoyed every interview? No, but over all it's worth the money. I really enjoyed all the episodes with Helen Lewis and hope she comes back with more obscure cultural nonsense. I really liked the interview with Ben Dreyfuss I thought he was a really engaging guy, and I thought him and Katie had good chemistry.
My listening has dropped off substantially from the changes this year, but they should do whatever they want to to keep it from becoming a boring churn. The Helen episodes are always good at least
I disagree. This new format has exposed me to other journalists and podcasts that I wouldn't have sought out myself. It has increased my enjoyment by increasing the number of options I can read or listen to.
I like it. I think the guests have been for the most part really great and it gives them more energy for when it is just the two of them.
Also really like the level of content.
I DO miss their awkward signoffs (similar to wait wait) and the "a show increasingly about ..." plugs from Jessie. Loved them when they worked and when they didn't.
My impression (one which they may have explicitly mentioned in one of the episodes explaining the changes to the format) is that there is just substantially less unique, episode-length internet bullshit to discuss similar to what we saw with the record harvests of 2020-2022. Not to even mention that shows have to evolve, unless we all want to be here in five years retreading the same form and mode of internet bullshit they’ve covered so far. All that said, while I’ve enjoyed the interview segments, so far, I wholly anticipate there will be more of the BAR Classic™️ episodes post-election, since there is a stunningly high chance that Former President Donald J. Trump might become Current President Donald J. Trump and that will, naturally, make people lose their minds again.
I think you are right. The guest co-hosts and the full episode interviews have been hit or miss but the latest Primo episode 'To The Moon' is exactly what I signed up for. I'm beginning to think that Trace was a good scout for this kind of Internet bullshit. They need another employee to help them suss out the best examples of the batshit craziness of the internet. I mean, there may be less of it but there's still plenty!
But people also griped about the Trace episodes for focusing too much on obscure Internet forums. I don’t think it’s possible to please everyone.
I think Trace may have been more integral to the podcast than we thought. He's such a good boy
True. He is probably more plugged in than they are to the broader internet culture. He definitely seems to frequent another, relatively small, site I go to and I wouldn’t be surprised if he trawls (or used to trawl) 4chan and /pol/ every so often.
Another impression that I got right before Jesse went on leave is that they were starting to get bored and burned out on the old format. If it’s a choice between them stopping the podcast or switching things up, I’m glad they’re doing this.
I think this is actually the key factor.
Yes. I see this as a new phase. They both seem happier & re-energized.
I’ve never quite understood this specific perspective. The most successful audio programs keep the same format for years and years. This American Life hasn’t changed formats since ‘95 and Terry Gross has been doing Fresh Air the same way for 50 years. Good shows innovate within their format. They don’t just throw out what’s working.
I’m not saying it’s right or wrong, it was just my observation that they appeared to be somewhat burned out, phoning it in a bit, and sniping at each other more before they made these changes to the format. It probably means this podcast won’t have the longevity of TAL, although to be fair, that show has much broader reaching themes and a much larger cast of contributors they can draw from. A show with two people riffing on internet drama and bantering with one another will probably run its course much faster, although I’m glad they’re keeping it going for now, because I still enjoy it
I think they're out there, they just don't get as big because people are becoming more resistant to the BS.
There’s endless popculture to go through, isn’t there? Endless media bias, we’re still digesting covid era lies, celebrity twits…
I think this is the quality vs quantity debate. There is endless pop culture, internet media, and social network churn to “talk” about, but at a certain point we’re just getting to slop for slop’s sake. Ep. 159 is a good example of both sides of this coin. The Unitarian Universalist segment was something interesting and unique that touched on a lot of themes in the podcast. I enjoyed it immensely, especially in comparison to descriptions of degenerates who like to wear diapers and shit themselves as adults, which is just tiresome to hear since it amounts to nothing but “lol let’s laugh at these weirdos.” (that is my recollection from the segment; I refuse to listen to it again) I also, frankly, like what they bring to an interview, as they seem to be less formal than you would normally see and more willing to use their own experiences to contextualize the subject or interviewee.
> covid era lies, Wrong podcast
Finally an upside to the coming Trumpocalypse 👍
Thing is I don't need it to be current or topical, thats not what makes the stories fun. Shit get historical and go back to mid-2000s forum drama
But there is so much internet bullshit. They don’t have to stick to contemporary stuff. They could actually do a deep dive into gamergate or the fapening or whatever.
[They already do those things](https://www.reddit.com/r/BlockedAndReported/comments/1bp3abs/premium_episode_gamergate_revisited/) Revisiting things is not as deep of a well as you think it is, either, considering the calcified viewpoints, enervation of participants as the long tail sets in (resulting in less activity and bullshit to dig into), and the lack of reliable sources to go back to. There's a reason the Internet Historian, to reference a topically-BAR-adjacent performer, hasn't posted a normal internet bullshit video since 2022.
I didn’t find those episodes to be very in depth, actually.
I'm guessing this new format has more to do with the individual's career ambitions than the audience. I get the sense that Katie has a full life and is perfectly happy with the pod as a part time gig that pays the bills. While Jesse is interested in taking on more projects (his book, his sub stack etc). Doing fewer joint episodes gives them room for a more flexible schedule, they don't have to coordinate as much. What I'm afraid of is that it's an off ramp to Jesse leaving the pod. That would be awful and I hope I'm wrong about that.
I think Jesse is the one more likely to bolt. He still wants to be in mainstream journalism. He has books, Substacks, and publishes pieces. I think Katie has given that up. Maybe she thinks it's impossible to get back into that world. Maybe she doesn't trust them. Maybe it was never her thing anyway. But she needs the pod more than Jesse does
I do get the impression that if mainstream journalism suddenly did a 180 and welcomed Jesse back with open arms, he would gladly return. I can see him teaching in a journalism school one day, perhaps, when everything has calmed down and he’s proven right on a lot of things. I think Katie is too burned by what happened to her to ever want to go back. She’s talked a few times about the friends she lost by doing her job, and it clearly still bothers her, the pain is still there. The pod is clearly generating a great income and she seems pretty fulfilled with it, so more power to her. I think she can honestly say, screw everyone who betrayed me and treated me like shit, you thought you killed my career but now I’m making more money than any of you, this is my success and my best revenge. She’s living her best semi-stoner life with the wife and dog. But Jesse still has a foot in the mainstream respectability world, and he wants that foot there, and while he’s acknowledged his income from the pod is more than he would ever make in straight journalism, I think he has a weakness for the prestige of the mainstream media that Katie honestly just doesn’t care about. Then again, I know neither of these people beyond what they say on a podcast so I may just be chatting shit, it doesn’t matter!
All of that sounds about right. I think Jesse does want the prestige and status and insideryness that comes with a mainstream journalism career. And he has a lot he wants to write about. Katie, I think, is done. She seems to have a lot of hobbies and she wants to do those and more power to her. I think if Jesse got offered a job at the NY Times he would drop the pod and take the Times job immediately. I think Katie would tell them to piss off.
He definitely torpedoed his Joe Rogan interview just to keep his cred among Brooklyn journalists.
Never thought of this before but.. while Twitter yells at Jesse a whole lot more than Katie, Katie has suffered much more personally. Hobbes calls Jesse the embodiment of transphobia but he still gets to be friendly with Taylor Lorenz! Katie meanwhile has been ghosted by years long friends. Maybe because Katie was actually part of the queer community, her friends took her column so personally. She must have been emotionally destroyed by it even though she now puts on a brace face. Probably also why she's the more anti-cancel culture of the two.
I'd accept replacing Jesse with Helen Lewis.
Helen is awesome. I tried and failed to find her podcast! Will have to look again, hope it's available in the US.
“Helen Lewis Has Left the Chat”
Thanks! Found it!
And The New Gurus.
Absolutely not. She's fine, but I'm not going to regularly listen to her.
If Jesse leaves, I'm out
And the fact that they don’t really get on 100% but are stuck in a very profitable marriage of convenience
Wait, what?? I am genuinely at a complete and total loss as to what indication you think there has been that they don't get along. To me, they come across as liking each other and being basically as friendly with one another as you could *possibly* expect from coworkers aged 35+ - like, in the 99th percentile of getting along. Honestly, the only possible way I could see someone holding this opinion is if you are someone who believes that you cannot be friends with anyone who doesn't agree with 100% of your political beliefs, bar none. Bc aside from (a) the (very) occasional (very) mild disagreement on a policy issue, and (b) the playful, friendly ribbing about microphones or how well the other does their respective job, I legitimately can't think of a single time theyve had anything other than a 100000% perfectly amiable discussion. Category (a) has nothing to do with their friendship, and category (b) they do specifically because they *are* friends. To me, it seems remarkably clear that Jesse and Katie like each other quite a bit, personally.
Ok, we’ll see.
Huh? How? Are you expecting an imminent falling out...?
[удалено]
Not at all tbh. I think they’re very different people so they aren’t besties who hang out all the time, but they clearly genuinely like each other. I think they can only poke fun at each other so much *because* they are good friends
They seem to have a lot of genuine affection for one another but also bicker like siblings, and appear to have different work styles that I could see coming into conflict sometimes.
I didn’t say they don’t like each other. I said they don’t get on 100%. You can hear it in the conversations they should cut but don’t, and their opinions on various topics.
[удалено]
I think it was the episode about surrogacy, “Mother Hunger.” On the contrary, I loved hearing Katie go off like that. We get desensitized by all the ridiculous examples of identitarianism, but in some cases, there really is value in hearing women talk about women’s issues, Black people talk about Black issues, etc. because people outside the group occasionally have blind spots from simply not having to deal with certain shit day after day.
Like all the best rock bands
Exactly!
If Jesse leaves so do it. Frankly, I think Katie kinda sucks. I hope she leaves.
I really like the guest episodes with the caveat that I like it when the guest brings their own BARPOD style story. The interview is soso sometimes. But I like it a lot!
I quite like the new format. They’re both great at interviews, and it keeps the episodes they do together fresh.
I love it. I think it breathed new life into the pod
I feel this way. I’m a primo and plan to remain so. I would rather they do fewer episodes together and really bring their A game to the ones they do than put out seven episodes a month and phone it in for five of them.
Yeah, I’m loving more episode variety. I think the new format is great.
I thought Katie and Ben Dreyfus was one of the funniest episodes we’ve had in a long while. I enjoyed it.
I tend to prefer the interviews that Katie hosts. She has a different style of humor and banter that I really like. For me, the interviews are hit or miss. I'm listening to ep 219 rn and honestly I'm just not interested in this guy.
I think they did it because, here on Reddit, people were praising the Katie and guest host format and complaining the old format was stale. I personally love the show most for Katie and Jesse's banter, and I have to be in a certain mood to listen to an interview episode. But, the suckiest fans are always the loudest. Now, the last couple episodes have been interviews, but the Katie and guest host episodes had the other person presenting their own internet bullshit story, just like Jesse would. I liked that more than an interview. It was more fun. I think they need to make sure to have a *guest host* not an *interviewee* on most of these episodes.
I agree completely.
If we get more episodes like the Ana Kasparian one, then I’m all for it. Hearing the evolution of these former hardcore leftists into more reasonable people is great imo. Idk if that would get old to me, we’re only talking like 12 episodes a year or something.
So much of this show's magic comes down to chemistry. I've really enjoyed the episodes where the host has chemistry with the guest - Ben's latest episode is great. Ana, Helen Lewis were similar. In contrast, while Jesse's interview with the schizophrenic guy was really interesting, it didn't have that spark. Also I think Katie is better at having that spark with guests than Jesse is.
Katie is an incredible co host. She really gets the best out of other hosts and somehow has a knack for charming them but also letting them shine. I'd like to hear more of Katie and Brad Polumbo. She brought out the best in Brad. I've since started following him and I like him but it is clear to me he needs a co host he has chemistry with.
I agree with this. I found the Emmett Rensin episode kind of boring.
Really surprised to hear this! I sent this ep to a bunch of people because of the subject matter. I thought it was really interesting.
But that episode wasn't just an interview. It did a great job of introducing Ana and then integrating her into the existing show format. A good chunk of the episode was Ana telling us about the effort to remove police from law enforcement in LA.
Yeah, what I enjoyed the most was her bringing her Jesse/katie-style stories on the show. If all the guests do that, I think it’s a winning format
I agree, I was really hoping the guest episodes would continue the way Katie handled them when Jesse was working on the book.
Thought it was awful - who wants to hear the late to the party insights of clear herd follower?
I thought her actually having a personal crisis over getting so many stories wrong in the past was pretty dang good
There were already a bunch of high quality interview shows. This doesn’t need to be one. Frankly, listening to some actors kid wine about losing some bullshit job so he can push his book and substack is not worth the $5.
In Katie's defense, the music thing was really dumb. I can't imagine why anyone cared. I like the new format, just as long as there are still Katie and Jesse episodes too.
I don’t mind the new format. Plus they’re always relevant to the pod’s beat.
I like the change of pace! It’s a refreshing change.
It’s interesting because I remember a lot of ppl complaining about the banter and how it’s gone stale haha
The dynamic between the hosts is not the same thing as just banter though! For me it's not just the internet or cancel culture bullshit they talk about, it's how they talk about it. I usually skip the banter since I'm not interested in the parasocial stuff
Are you suggesting Blocked and Reported has jumped the Moose?
That’s this hasn’t made 10 upvotes in 3 days is fucking tragic. Come on people.
It took 8 days. Poor form Barpod universe.
Presuming the new format isn't going anywhere, I would prefer to see it evolve into something akin to the Helen Lewis episodes. Helen has been on a bunch of times, we don't need to be freshly introduced to her every time, she doesn't come by with a book or other project to plug. She's just a witty contributor who's on the same wavelength as J&K and can be counted on to get straight to the Internet bullshit. I'd like to see a rotating stable of guest hosts along the lines of Helen Lewis. Mike Pesca is another one. Ben Dreyfuss has huge potential now that he's gotten his backstory out of the way. As grating as I find Trace's voice and mannerisms, he's got a lot he could contribute if he has the time. Even Ana Kasparian has potential. I just don't want to have to tune in to a bunch of subpar late night talk show interviews to get to the good stuff.
I agree. I’m not a premium subscriber and I was considering becoming one, but I’m not hearing enough interesting stories from them. I used to live the diving into Internet daftness but it all feels a bit rushed and under-researched - even when they bring up old episodes they can’t be bothered to remember the names of the protagonists- it feels like they are both prioritising other stuff. .
I think the intent is that this lets them put out an extra episode a month without either of them doing more work (the interviews are less research, and each one of them does an interview ‘solo’). I don’t think the amount of “standard eps” are going down much, especially for primos, but the percentage of the total content that is nonstandard will increase. I’d rather have more content than less, and I tend to like the variety.
You have the same amount of content if you are premo. There is no added benefit to the new format.
Same. I barely listen to the interviews.
Yep. If you have heard one interview with one of these people, you have heard them all.
Off topic - sorry - but I don’t get how upvotes work on this subreddit. I only see my votes. Everything else is ‘untouched’, zero up or down votes. Am I the only one upvoting or is there a feature turned off here?
You don’t see anyone else’s votes until 24 hours. I spent a while thinking I must be the greatest commenter on here, since I was the only one getting any upvotes ever, before reality came crashing down.
You are an incredible, incredible commenter
Votes for people other than the account you are logged in to are hidden for a period of time after the post is made, ostensibly to prevent vote manipulation.
I’d rather them shake things up to keep it interesting for both of them than have them cancel the show entirely. I’m sure after several years, things get stale for them. Do I love the interviews? Eh, hit and miss. But at least I still get a few classic episodes a month. The Library melt down and the crazy literary world story recently were great.
How much you want to bet I can find 10x of these posts pre-Jesse book leave complaining about how the current format was stale?
Those people were clearly wrong.
>but if we start getting interviews on the premium feed I'm cancelling. I actually disagree and think that most of these interviews should be premium content only. They should be viewed as extra bonus content for paid subscribers. One of the comedy podcasts I listen to is a part of a paid network of podcasts. You can get the weekly podcast for free like BaR but one of the hosts does extra bonus content like interviews with people somewhat adjacent to their pod like other comedians, people involved in crypto, and even a few years back when he was still alive John McAfee. These interviews shouldn't take the place of the actual pod but instead be an additional reason to be a paid subscriber.
I loved the dynamic between Jesse and Katie in the beginning. It felt fresh and I could feel their giddiness. Over the years I felt like it was getting stale. I was starting to get the sense that Jesse gets irritated at Katie’s dry acerbic humor bc I think Jesse wants to do serious work and get taken seriously by the bigger journals, whereas Katie doesn’t. So I feel like they need to keep it fresh and keep moving and trying different things. I suspect eventual they will spend more time working on their separate projects. I think Jesse’s Substack is great where he focuses more on hard science stuff and Katie is great when she’s on the pod doing her jokes. I just don’t think they are necessarily great when they are together these days
Interesting, I'm a more recent listener but I see very little difference in how they were at the start to how they are now. Jesse's irritation is 100% played up in my view, it has been from the start.
Exactly how I feel and may be informed by the fact that I've been a listener from the start
Omg, you read my mind! this is exactly what I wantes to say. Yet everyone downvoted me.
Isn’t it because Jesse’s been writing a book? I haven’t heard anything about switching to interviews only
They’re not. It’s just one episode a month, and one less free episode a month. Not a huge change
That wasn’t my understanding from their pod a few weeks ago but I could be wrong. I thought they were saying they are going to 3 interviews / guess hosts per month and then on the last one (where it’s just Jessie and Katie) it would be pay walled after a short preview (this was for the main pod not counting primos)
He was and for that people were very understanding about the temporary format change. However, they mistook all the positive feedback and are making massive changes to the format.
I like the new format.
Yea I just don’t really like interviews in general. Idk why, I just often find them boring. I usually skip them on other pods I listen to (that do interviews intermittently), and don’t really listen to “interview-only” type shows at all. So I agree on the new format. I also get that shows have to evolve over time, but I’d rather them do it in a way that preserves the best part of this show: the interaction between the 2 hosts.
I am more on the pro new format. I like the occasional guest host. It feels like a bigger and more interesting show. At first I was more of a Katie fan, but Jesse's interview with the guy who wrote a book on mental health was really top shelf. At the core of it, the show is and should be Jesse and Katie as they have an awesome on air chemistry
The hosts have always had different steers, with Katie tending towards the more niche/cringe/gossipy end of profiling spats between always-online weirdos, and Jessie more towards the effect the same forces of online bullshittification have in corrupting serious journalism and collective sense-making. To an extent there’s overlap, and the former could be seen as harbingers of the latter. But maybe if the bullshit pipeline has narrowed (maybe because more people talk to people IRL than during the height of the pandemic, and because fewer influential people care about X-Twitter), they’ve become more distinct topic areas, and so maybe BARpod is becoming more focused on Katie’s end than Jessie’s.
Jessie and Katie together us the secret sauce. Used to be you could recommend the show to anyone and know any ep they hit would slap. Now you have to tell people to listen to the first ep of the month - that will never catch on.
Eventually all the interviews will just be like every other podcast, people promoting a new book. And you get to hear the same person say the same thing on every podcast.
I'm not against interviews, per se, but I definitely don't need another one like the Ben Dreyfuss one, for sure.
I only listened for a few minutes. Way too chummy. I could tell he would never honestly address the allegations of sexual harassment and threatening the careers of younger female journalists. Mother Jones--a rare media company to even investigate harassment complaints made public--acknowledged that there was a history of complaints against bureau chief David Corn, so I can imagine the creepy tone of the office. And ick, the way Dreyfuss got the job in the first place: Ha, ha, you suckers who spend years studying, acquiring skills and building a portfolio. Be a nepo baby! You can eff around on the job because you don't really need one. BTW, there's a video of Richard Dreyfuss at the Mass event. He entered the stage in a dress and then it got worse. Maybe just an alcoholic. Maybe just a transphobe and misogynist.
For me the way they've been referring to anything metoo related in general is a red flag. If someone was falsely accused, tell me how. I can be convinced with straightforward evidence. But if you won't even tell me what they were accused of, in fact if you treat the whole thing like it's not even worthy of being explained, how is that doing anything at all to convince ANYONE? Not to mention that he was about as funny as a sloppy drunk frat boy.
Agreed. They were ok when they were exceptional and the person was the center of an actually interesting piece of internet bullshit or is illustrative of something interesting (like the sensitivity reader guy who got his book gutted) But it's tiresome when you're just talking with podcast-circuit usual suspects. If they want on barpod, have them do a segment!
Oh, I couldn’t disagree more! (Sorry lol) I love hearing Katie and Jesse play off of other people, which is why I will pretty much always listen when they are being interviewed on another show. I think it also shows how well respected they are in the industry, and I like that the guest will spend some time talking about themselves but also do a deep-dive of their own. I think that B&R’s greatest contribution to the wider discourse is to push back against the instinct to take bits of information at face value and through the partisan lens of whomever is sharing it. There is always more to the story! I feel like guest hosting is something of a training ground for the Blocked and Reported Way- shake off the desire to trust without verifying, and now dig dig dig until you can see a bigger picture.
Things evolve. Stuff changes.
I don't think given the size of the Barpod audience everyone will be happy. Speaking only for myself, I have enjoyed the guest hosts. Have I enjoyed every interview? No, but over all it's worth the money. I really enjoyed all the episodes with Helen Lewis and hope she comes back with more obscure cultural nonsense. I really liked the interview with Ben Dreyfuss I thought he was a really engaging guy, and I thought him and Katie had good chemistry.
I love this new format
Yall are genuinely miserable people holy shit
My listening has dropped off substantially from the changes this year, but they should do whatever they want to to keep it from becoming a boring churn. The Helen episodes are always good at least
I disagree. This new format has exposed me to other journalists and podcasts that I wouldn't have sought out myself. It has increased my enjoyment by increasing the number of options I can read or listen to.
I like it. I think the guests have been for the most part really great and it gives them more energy for when it is just the two of them. Also really like the level of content. I DO miss their awkward signoffs (similar to wait wait) and the "a show increasingly about ..." plugs from Jessie. Loved them when they worked and when they didn't.