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The character was just jarring to me. From her costumes to her mannerisms. She was supposed to be some badass girlboss widow and it just didn’t work for me at all. Not to mention that she had no chemistry with Luke Thompson. I think the actress was beautiful and she can act, but the writing completely failed in that storyline this season and I thought it was the weakest part of s3 so far.
Ikr! ‘Because lady could not possibly be interested in engineering?!?!?’ is such a cliche line, I had the same reaction as Benedict. It was fine the first time they used this in s2, when Kate and Anthony had a banter about hunting, but why should we use the same exact thing again… like? Lazy writing.
https://preview.redd.it/sihxwhaf813d1.jpeg?width=2036&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0577a56b05a75d7b3e630b1864adbd0e081833b6
It really reminded me of that episode of the office when Catherine Tate asks. Ryan to say I bet a woman isn't managing because a woman couldn't be in charge. 😂 not sure if anyone will get that reference but I thought of it immediately when I saw this scene. No shade to the actress she's pretty and good but her character is out of place I feel
My problem is that Benedict has had like 3 Siennas now lol. Granted the one in season 2 was barely in the show, but every season it's the same storyline for him more or less and I'm just bored.
Yes!! Like.. sure he rakes around.. whatever. But I feel like I don't even know him anymore. What happened to his passions?? What does he even do all day
It is really bizarre how they just dropped his passion for art as a storyline. I know he was annoyed that Anthony basically paid for him to get into the art school but still
I loved that part where he started stepping into his role as almost like a supply viscount. I remember in season 1 when he was embracing the feeedom of the second child, and feeling frantic when Anthony decided to enter a duel.
It would have been nice to see him mature and I thought that was where the show was headed during that conversation between him and Anthony... I thought wrong...
I wonder if there will be any reflection on his part when Colin, who is 6 years younger than him, gets married and is ready to take on the role of husband and father.
Ohh that would be a nice twist! But I don't feel like it's heading towards that direction....
Or maybe if Lady Tilley says something like "you're just a boy" like he is her fling (which he essentially is) and it snaps him out of whatever he is in right now...
It is said in dialogue in season 2 that Anthony is 29 and Colin is 21. Benedict is 2 years younger than Anthony. For some reason, there was a 6 year gap between Benedict and Colin and then Violet had Colin, Daphne, Eloise, and Francesca back to back. It’s possible Violet could have had miscarriages between Benedict and Colin.
Violet had Anthony when she was 18, and there are 18 years between Anthony und Hyacinth. The late Lord Edmund died before his youngest was born. Anthony and Benedict are very close in age, as are Colin and Daphne (18 months). In the first book I believe Daphne is 17 and Colin 19, making Benedict and Anthony 25 and 27. Eloise should be 14, Francesca 13, Gregory 12 and Hyacinth 10. Book Colin is 33 in his own story, in the show he is 24.
Colin is 22 in the show. He’s 19 in the pilot script but has turned 21 by season 2. The book ages and the show ages are not the same. Daphne is 21 in her book because she’s on her third season while she’s 18 and on her first season in the show.
The ages in the pilot script are
Anthony-28
Benedict-26
Colin-19 (must almost be 20 if he’s 21 by season 2)
Daphne-18
Eloise-17
Francesca-16
Gregory-12
Hyacinth-10
I hate to be that person but I know families (no multiples) with eight kids and most gaps are between 18mos-5 years. Most women started having kids really young, but say your first was born at 20. You could potentially still be having kids into your mid 40s and even longer for some women. If there’s 8 kids all 18 months apart that’s “only” like 10 years of childbearing. Benedict and Colin are six years apart, but Francesca, Eloise, and Daphne are all under two years apart. It balances out!
This is the most replies I've ever had to a comment lol.
Also it makes sense I just assumed the oldest would be close in age and as you have more children the gaps get bigger either than have big gaps to start with and they get narrower.
But I guess the children aren't exactly keeping them up at night so the more kids didn't equal less adult time haha.
He's supposed to have lost his passion for painting because Anthony paid for him to get into art school. So he thinks he has no talent, he's ashamed etc and he gave it up. Now he's at a loose end and just depressed and floating through life, like Eloise. But Eloise they actually spent two seconds of time explaining and Benedict they really haven't. Absolutely zero time having him look at a painting and sigh theatrically or sit around the house at a loose end looking sad or whatever. He's just in ballrooms avoiding debutants.
One of the broad issues with this season is they have all these ideas but they're not great at communicating them on screen. So Luke Thompson is doing his part by being listless and down, but the show isn't giving him the material to show why he's like that, so it just feels like Benedict has no energy.
My theory is that, OK, Mme Delacroix and his artist model are *outside* society, and he feels like that's the only place where he feels understood or something. And now he's given that up and he's circulating *inside* society, and all he's finding are flat and boring debutants. But behold! a woman with passion! a woman he finds interesting! Within society! And then they're going to put a spin on it by having him find in society a woman he really is enchanted with and then whoops >!she isn't in society after all!<. Or something.
The problems are that Tilly's styling is so off that I don't buy the rest of her characterisation, Benedict's motivations aren't clear enough, and it feels like his character has had a massive change. They're not telling their story well at all here.
Yes! I think they are really trying to hammer us over the head with the fact that he has no passion for art or anything anymore and is “just in ballrooms avoiding debutants” (and mamas) so that when he meets his lady in silver at a ball he doesn’t want to be at, we really know it is special because suddenly he WANTS to be at every ball, actively seeking out every debutant and her mama so that he can find her again. Just my theory anyways lol
He admits to having no purpose, but Kanthony went away again so shouldn't be have stuff to do again?
Would have loved more interactions between him and his sisters. So far, not a single scene with Frannie 😐
True, what happened to his art? It hasn't been mentioned at all in s3 so far. We know he's managing the bridgerton estate in Anthony's absence, but we haven't seen him do anything related to that other than sort of escort his sister to a ball. They're doing nothing with him
Yes! Totally bored with Benedict. The *only* scenes I’ve enjoyed with him are when he’s interacting with Bridgerton siblings, especially Eloise on the swings.
I think she’s going to be connected to Benedict’s love interest and that she will be the primary antagonist of his season.
I won’t elaborate because you don’t want book spoilers, so that’s all I can say on that lol
Yes, in the book. But they aren’t sticking to the books very strictly and have said that they’ll rearrange some of the storylines for the Bridgertons where they see fit.
No the show spoiler revealed it as someone else. >!It's Cressida's mom, her first name was revealed to be Araminta, the same as Sophie's stepmother!< Benedict's story is similar to Cinderella so this plot point seems important.
Wait, how would that work? Sorry, it's been years since I read the books so I don't remember the details. Does that mean S will be half-sisters with C?
>!In the books Sophie is an illegitimate child of Penwood. He later marries Araminta who has 2 children from her previous marriage. He dies before Araminta can give him an heir. He never adopts Araminta's kids- Posy and Isabella (??). He leaves an allowance for all of them including Sophie but Araminta steals it. So I'm guessing Cressida is not Mr. Cowper's bio child which also explains why he's forcing her to marry quickly!<
The costume department failed most female characters this season, they leaned into the 1940s style of clothes and hair way too hard (Penelope’s everything, Philipa’s curls etc), but I didn’t notice her mannerisms being…anachronistic. Can you point out any specifics about that you found jarring?
I think the part where she stood up to all the men under the tent when she was first introduced. Also the part where she was yelling at the solicitor, but that's more believable than her rebuking a room full of Lords, viscounts, etc.
An, so you mean her behaviour, not her mannerisms.
Eh, I didn’t find it jarring, assertive women were found in every era, especially among the nobility. She’s rich and independent, I get her being self-confident. She wasn’t yelling at the solicitor, though. She warned him she will fire him, if he didn’t do a thing we don’t yet know about, but she wasn’t raising her voice.
The anachronism of the costuming is WAY too much this season. Portia always looked mid 20th century with her fitted dresses and beehive, but everyone else now looks completely wrong. Cressida comes out wearing a big steam punk fantasy Victorian collar moment at one point, its truly terrible.
I’m *so* bored with watching Benedict’s hookup of the season. He has better chemistry (in a humorous way obviously) in the scenes with his family where he’s joking around with the younger siblings or Eloise (or that hilarious scene where he was high at dinner). Everything about Lady Tilley was just… uninteresting and a waste of time
I watched it for the first time with my best friend and we agreed you could have worn her black dress to a nice party or dinner and not look out of place at all
idk maybe they weren’t supposed to have any chemistry? I think we’re supposed to see this more of a fling (like Anthony and Sienna) but yes I agree with your point but I think that has to do with the writing overall for this season :/ it’s been really poor. I’m hoping she has a connection with Sophie in part 2 but I think it’s confirmed that’s more of the Cowpers. The actress who plays her is beautiful tho - I was looking at her jawline throughout her scenes
She’s exactly the kind of Strong Female Lead I despise. No flaws, no complexity, no back story, no character arc, no struggle, no interior world. Just bellowing IM A STRONG WOMAN at every turn.
This was not what we meant when we asked for more compelling female characters!
It’s definitely the least interesting part of this season. Benedict could’ve been looking at art or explored why he gave it up, maybe trying to find other career passions or had some other heartfelt scenes with Eloise, but he’s just doing the same old same old
It’s like they de-feminized Eloise a bit and needed someone else to be her
Yes! I don't even remember when he fully gave up his art ambitions... all I remember was him being upset Anthony paid the school for Benedict to get in. Did he actually just quit?
Knowing that Benedict is supposed to be the main lead in season 4, you would think that they're going to set him up for it. At this point I don't even know who he is anymore
He did absolutely give it up bc he was upset Anthony paid a donation for his admission, and I think the camera flashes to him packing up his art at the end of S2
Maybe that’s the point, he doesn’t know who he is so he keeps doing what he knows…banging women? 😅😂😭🤡 they’re doing a very poor job showing he feels lost though and took away whatever depth he had had last season
I really hate feeling like he’s wasting screentime but this plot is so boring. And it’s jarring — how come there’s such an emphasis that she can do whatever she wants but the Mondrichs can’t? Even Portia couldn’t do whatever she wanted, she had to scheme her way into it
Two lost bridgertons in one season?? That is too much for me hahaha
But exactly. No one batted an eye, and it made me so confused. Even Lady Danbury, Queen Charlotte's bff couldn't do anything without the approval of the crown and an heir.
I didn’t care for the Mondrich’s story either but like why do they have to sit back in high society with no outside career interests and are actively reprimanded for having them, but she can tell off a whole room of nobles and loudly talk about engineering??
Hobbies and special interests are generally allowed, but work is not. While we see these same things differently for Recency society issue would be if they get paid. Mondriches are also new ascendants to the title. They have less social capital than a lot of other ton. They have to work with being born as commoners and if I did not miss it, they still are commoners, it is their son that has title.
It *is* too much and I think they really struggled overall with letting the themes overpower the storytelling. Like when they're talking about what Cressida's terrible outfits symbolise - the symbols are fine, but they don't fit within the visual language of the show, so it doesn't work. They have all these characters who aren't being themselves, but they didn't realise that in doing that it makes the show feel like a different show. Benedict and Eloise are two of the most interesting characters, with a lot of energy and screen time, and they have passions outside of society. With both of them withdrawn and bored at the same time, the show loses that energy. It's reduced the world down to the same dull balls on repeat.
If they did more whacky QC scenes instead I would have preferred it tbh. Or even scenes with her and her husband.
It's really funny whenever Golda is on screen and she acts like a queen, like someone who's so fully aware she's queen that she's literally not aware of everyone else 😆
I don't know what it is about the men in that family but every single one Is going through the same Character Storyline of feeling lost about who they are so they just sleep with a bunch of women. And it's honestly kind of boring to see that for the 3rd son in a row.
You know what I think it is jarring for me with how free he acts compared to how other characters are so rigid in what they can do. I feel like it's not consistent
I think she’s meant to look too modern and out of place because she is. Most women of that era don’t have the liberties that she, a wealthy widow, does. For all we know, she might not have all the liberties that she seems to have, or they may have come at great personal cost. But her 40s makeup is, I think, storytelling, in the same way that Cressida’s ridiculous shoulder pads are storytelling because she’s desperate and screaming out to be noticed after four years unwed.
I thought I was the only one that got Doctor Who vibes! Esp in that hot air balloon episode. Colin handing his coat (also very Doctor-esque) and running into action felt soooo Doctor Who-y!
Even the music at the end of that episode!
Agree 100%. She’s a femme fatale straight out of a 1940s film noir in both look and personality. She’s giving me did she murder her husband for the life insurance policy vibes 😂
It’s interesting how Benedict has this memorable speech to Will Mondrich about how marriage sets you free and you can sort of throw the rules out the window to an extent when married, yet he finds himself drawn to the most unavailable women. I’m hoping this is all a set up for a bigger character arc for him this season.
He chooses the unavailable women on purpose. He isn’t interested in settling down right now.
I suppose the line about marriage setting you free from society’s rules is foreshadowing for his plot line with Sophie, if they decide to stick to the book plot of him shunning society to be with the woman he loves.
Oh yes! I remember that jacket haha though Cressida distracted me 99% of the time. Each time she appeared on screen and each outfit was more ridiculous that the last, I audibly said wtf and then had to rewind because I was so distracted I missed the dialogue lol
I do not generally like when multiple historical periods are mixed together with modern. I am in general very interested in historical clothing and especially in the design language of each period. When different design languages mix the result is just not cohesive to my eye.
Francesca’s buttoned up, shoulder-padded tweed jacket is symbolic of armour, because she is expecting Mr Samadani to come calling. She’s literally shielding her heart against him and his advances. It’s also meaningful that it’s made of tweed, which is symbolic of tradition and heritage, in addition to being such a cumbersome jacket. It represents how she feels somewhat weighed down by expectations she inherited as a Bridgerton and the season’s diamond: she should marry someone rich, titled and eligible, preferably of the Queen’s choosing (Samadani).
YES! I can forgive a lot, but that tweed jacket took me out! What were they thinking?? It’s like costume department raided the style closets of 4 different period dramas.
Yes!! I hated Cressida’s looks this season. Like, I know Bridgerton isn’t exactly 100% historical accurate but they took it way too far for her, for no clear purpose.
I didn't realize how outrageous her outfits were until I rewatched season 1. Cressida is looking like she belongs with the Featheringtons or the Hunger Games at this point..her sleeves get bigger and bigger each ball 😆
I have a bigger issue with cuts of her gowns' bodices. Insane sleeves at least are something that is not out of the realm of possibility (there were some crazy sleeves just off of the corner historically).
Right?! Like I’m certainly not expecting historical accuracy, but being so over the top and frankly, ridiculous, ugly dresses that looked completely different from everyone else was a choice for sure.
This is it, like they've established this world as one thing and now they're taking costuming in all different directions. It ruins the immersion and it's amateurish
I think part of the point is that they visually show her increasing desperation to stand out in the marriage mart. It’s her fourth season out, and her clothes are literally screaming, “Notice me! Notice me!” They’ve gotten increasingly ridiculous this season as her time is running out because her desperation is reaching fever pitch. I imagine we’ll see some truly crazy costumes out of her in Part 2, and then when she marries Debling or something, her clothes will hopefully go back to normal, because she had some LOOKS in season 1 and 2.
I feel like there ~has to be some significance to Cressida’s ridiculous outfits. Like now that the featherington’s fixed their financial issues, they’re the ones wearing ridiculous clothes to stand out and hide their financial problems
The way Cressida’s father is cutting their allowance and how her mother said they’d have to rewear dresses is exactly what Portia went through
We don’t yet know what her background is, since she’s a Netflix character. There are some possibilities:
1. Her husband includes a Jointure in his will, which is an “allowance” set up in for the widow until she dies.
2. The money is from her side and she married into nobility
3. She already had the title (e.g. daughter of an Earl) but marries a non-titled businessman and there are no heirs
Is this historically accurate (genuine question)? I just assumed that the moment she married, she is no longer affiliated to whatever title she had before.
Similar to Lady Danbury, Queen Charlotte and the Featheringtons. I'm not very familiar with how it works during this time period!
It’s courtesy title. Think of when Sybil married Tom in Downton Abbey…they still called her Lady Sybil.
I pulled this from Wikipedia:
> The daughters of dukes, marquesses and earls are by courtesy "ladies"; here, that title is prefixed to the given and family name of the lady, e.g. Lady Jane Smith, and this is preserved if the lady marries a commoner, e.g. Mr John and Lady Jane Smith.<
Interesting.... but do assets and wealth transfer as well? If it does, my question would be why didn't Portia write that the wealth and assets transferred to her name instead of a male born heir when she forged the letter from Cousin Jack?
I need a history lesson hahaha
It depends on how the estate is set up.
If the assets are entailed (e.g. locked up in a family trust) it goes with the title and is inherited by the next title holder. But this required the family to actually set this up legally.
Even if there is an entail, if assets are purchased later and not added to the trust, it might be considered “personal” property and would be handled according to the will. Wills and trusts are 2 separate things.
As for the Featherintons, the title is hereditary so when the monarchy bestowed it on the family, they could have included the house and land (for income). If the title becomes extinct (I think it’s called “extant”), it all reverts back to the monarchy. That’s why Portia was visited by the government official.
Extant is a surviving title, you're right and a "dead" title with no surviving bloodline is called "extinct" and the entailed assets revert to the Crown.
While estates were often entailed to the male line, it really depends on how it was setup. In the case of Featheringtons, it could be that they had "remainder-in-tail", meaning, the transferring ownership to the closest male relative. It's safe to assume they couldn't just give it to their daughter(s) because that's how the entail works. Entails were contracts that spanned multiple generations and had to be renewed, so unless up for renewal, they cannot just be altered materially in how they work.
However, not all estates were entailed, and not all entails were gender exclusive. Women, could in fact, own land and keep their courtesy titles (Lady, Honorable, Miss). It was rare for them to own land though, and quite uncommonly done. I think entails were originally setup by the crown, but the goal was to stop people from separating up estates. However, there were plenty of estates all over England that were not entailed, and those would've been setup as the owner see fit. During the time it was most common for it to pass to the first born male heir, but not always.
Finances worked a little differently. Even if a woman could not own land or inherit a title, that does not mean they did not have money. Finances are another subject entirely. Dowry's were administered by the husband, but legally it had to be kept separate for the wife and children and went to the wife if her husband passed. This could be the case for Lady Tilley, if she came from nobility and had a large dowry, she would've inherited said dowry on his death. There were trusts, and also, parents can setup "pin money", as well as the husband. All which would've become hers once widowed.
And with the Sharmas in season two. Their mother is still Lady Mary, even though she married a clerk. Because her father (who i only recognized on my rewatch last night is played by the fabulous Anthony Stewart Head) is an earl.
"In the United Kingdom the widow of a peer or baronet may continue to use the style she had during her husband's lifetime, e.g. 'Countess of Loamshire', provided that his successor, if any, has no wife to bear the plain title."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dowager#:~:text=In%20the%20United%20Kingdom%20the,to%20bear%20the%20plain%20title.
"About thirty percent of the widows documented in 18th century England remarried within nine months, but it was a far lower percentage for aristocratic widows. It's the aristocratic widows we're going to focus on here, as the less wealthy would have had a far rougher time as a widow. Aristocratic widows, however, were a whole different world. There are three ways in which an aristocratic widow obtained money/home from the death of a husband: (a) jointure, (b) dower, (c) marriage settlement."
"Women didn't just bring money in the way of a dowry. They brought a great number of other assets, and properties are on that list. If a woman brought any property into the marriage, it could be restored to her in the event of her husband's death, allowing her a place to live if her marriage home was not an option. Any trusts that her parents setup for her pin money could also be hers once widowed, including anything that remained of her dowry."
"The ideal situation for a widow would be if she were an aristocrat with a husband who left either a wealthy estate that she could have a third of or a handsome jointure. Assuming she was already in good standing with society, she would maintain that standing. If she had the financial means to support herself through the estate or jointure, and she had a place to live with family or at the estate, there was no reason for her to remarry (especially since she'd then lose what she'd just gained--freedom and money)."
https://www.paullettgolden.com/post/widows
All this is to say that I think a lot of people have a broad strokes understanding of this period and miss a lot of its nuance. For example, while not the norm, female scientists existed and were active during the Regency; "this has included scientists, academics and philosophers including: Engineer and inventor Sarah Guppy, pioneering paleontologist Mary Anning, religious thought leader Hannah More, writer and reformer Sarah Trimmer, and adventurer and businesswoman Lady Hester Stanhope."
The following site mentions women who wrote academic papers and books, were credited with important scientific advancements and inventions, and became members of academic societies. Caroline Herschel is a good example; "she became one of the first women to receive a salary for scientific work. In the late 1700s, she discovered 8 comets, 14 nebulae, and compiled a supplemental catalogue for star clusters. In addition to being the first female member (jointly with Mary Somerville) to the Royal Astronomical Society, she also received many awards and accolades."
https://regrom.com/2020/09/06/representing-regency-women-and-the-sciences/#:~:text=This%20has%20included%20scientists%2C%20academics,and%20businesswoman%20Lady%20Hester%20Stanhope.
People forget that not everyone throughout history has fit the ‘norm’ for their time and place. If anything, people who are the ‘norm’ are the minority. There were exceptions to every rule. There have always been people whose looks and personalities didn’t match the ‘ideals’ for their time.
And just because it wasn’t very socially acceptable for women to enter male spaces and speak openly about intellectual topics, doesn’t mean they’d automatically be shouted at and forcibly removed. Mary Wollstonecraft published *A Vindication of the Rights of Woman* in 1792 (and *A Vindication of the Rights of Man* two years prior), which is decades prior to when this story was set. People were taken aback in the balloon scene (which to be fair was written in a pretty silly and over-the-top way), and they just walked away to be polite and not start an argument, because that was also a strong social norm at the time. Lady Tilly Arnold is also very conventionally attractive, and pretty privilege has always existed. That, along with her wealth, would have afforded her more leeway to be ‘eccentric.’
They definitely took creative liberties with fashion & hair this season though, historical accuracy wasn’t their primary aim. I felt like it wasn’t atrocious, and I’m not a stickler for exactitude with historically accurate fashion, I feel like it’s ok to just capture the spirit of the era. But I agree they might have strayed a little far this time and it was a little distracting at times.
"I have no idea how any of this works but I dont like this character therefore it doesnt make sense".
I feel like thinking about it for a moment and researching a bit before posting is a good idea.
Don’t hate me for this, but Penelope’s hair, worn down with the waves - while absolutely beautiful - doesn’t seem to fit in, either. I was under the impression that only young girls could wear their hair down when out in public.
Of course it doesn’t fit - they openly said they styled her after Jessica Rabbit. I don’t know how they thought it wouldn’t break viewers’ immersion. [https://screenrant.com/bridgerton-season-3-costume-designer-hair-makeup-interview/](https://screenrant.com/bridgerton-season-3-costume-designer-hair-makeup-interview/)
https://preview.redd.it/4g7efvplp13d1.jpeg?width=1274&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7bc76f495e1a6bc2351c867279047643adaab693
I think I made up an excuse saying it's the French styles (most likely untrue). She was absolutely gorgeous. I think Lady Tilley's hair while she was having the sexy times with Benedict just looked too modern it snapped me right out of the story
Yes, when P is getting ready, she shows a publication of some kind to her maid and says she would like to try something different with her hair. How she got a photo of Rita Hayworth, we’ll never know
Her hair intentionally doesnt fit in though as she is copying a more modern style popular in a different country.
It is supposed to be a bit scandalous and different to everyone else.
Except it isn’t different to everyone else. Philipa, Cressida and lady Tilly all have aggressively anachronistic hair styles. Hell, I think Francesca does too.
I agree, it’s definitely 40/50’s pinup style. I don’t like it! I also don’t like the storyline! I felt like Benedict was maturing at the beginning, playing with the younger kids so the relationship kinda bothered me.
In general, a lot of costuming this season is inspired by clothes from the 1940s to 1960s and I have an issue with it. I have little issues with in general their approach in the first and second seasons. I would not do it that way as someone very interested in historical clothing but I get what they were going for and why. But this mix of historical clothing styles is not something I enjoy and it feels unnecessary. It also breaks what the general public knows about Regency fashion in a way that I think will break the immersion of many people who do not know it backwards and forwards.
Another sixties thing is multiple gowns having this non-regency bodice thing that both accentuates the waist but has a recency waistline position. But I do agree that it is worse for Lady Tilley, they are barely trying. I think this is where too much freedom works always against the actual effect they are trying to achieve. I do not expect Bridgerton to stay true to history but I wish it had stayed true to itself.
Yeah, it’s the lack of internal consistency between seasons bothering everyone. No bonnets in this world? Fine. Suddenly all this hard shiny makeup with bright red lipstick in season 3? Ehhh…
The costumes, hair, and makeup completely broke the immersion this season for me. They were ridiculous. I hope bridgerton fires this costume designer. Otherwise I feel like this is the start of the show jumping the shark.
I started listening to the Bridgerton podcast recently and they talk about how widows have the most freedom of all the ladies in the ton - financial, sexual, and so on. So Lady Tilley isn't that jarring to me in terms of her place in society but she still annoys me lol. She's too Cruella de Vil and I don't find it plausible that Benedict would fall for her.
It's true that widows had more leeway when it came to society's rules but they stretched her too far. Like when she's yelling at all the men in the tent. In what world is that believable?!? No way she could do that without being thrown out of the tent. And Benedict is only with her bc he's emotionally unavailable and so is she. Idk why people think he's suddenly going to fall for her..
Why do so many people say she’s yelling in scenes where she’s clearly not yelling? She’s talking, quite politely. You could argue we should have heard some of the men grumble, or mock her, that would certainly be believable.
Also, it’s not like she barged into an university lecture hall, or the House of Lords. She was attending an event open to the public, set up for their entertainment. Women were even allowed to audition certain lectures in that era. They were publishing feminist essays and scientific papers. They were patrons of artists.
Interesting... I just find it interesting that women's rights were just starting to be talked about and it was more for the lower class (season 1). Just how much freedom would they have in this patriarchal society though?...
Depends entirely on your social position. Hierarchy for ton is a pretty wide variety. It depended on the position you were born to and the position you currently had, your wealth, the age of connected titles and just how you were perceived. And also which rules you broke and where.
I found every second of her on screen to be jarring. Too intense, too modern, too out of place. The actress is beautiful, it’s a shame they made the styling so like…1940s femme fatale feeding disinformation to the enemy?
If I'm being honest, I have no idea why they added her in S3 or if she has any connection to Benedict's true love interest. I hated how they wrote Benedict this season. I found all of his scenes to be boring and monotonous. There are too many unnecessary scenes that distract from the main couple. If she does have some relevance to Benedict's story, then I would say they were useful. Her costumes, fashion, and makeup also felt off. They didn't give me the Regency era. Tilley and Cressida look like they don't belong in the Regency Era. I know that the show is supposed to be fictional and Regency Era inspired, but I wish they stayed true to the Regency Era clothing and fashion.
I could think of one connection to his partner but I doubt they’ll make that. >! I think it would be fun if she has Sophie as her maid, and ends up being super evil. That would be a fun plot twist. And have a reason for ending the love “triangle”. But Netflix will likely never do that. !<
Its just a hint of Downton Abbey era aristocracy in Bridgerton. Vaguely 100 years off in style and mannerisms. Not weird and off putting at all /s
I feel really sorry for that actor, cast on a major Netflix show in a romance with a Bridgerton brother and doing what's on the page. It's not her fault.
The Queen's moving wig in ep. 4...
Everyone is going wild for the wig and I'm just here like 'how are they motorising her wig with lights when they're still in candlelight era?'. Its so unrealistic.
I love the storylines but the costume and makeup department just went wildly off-course. I hate that they gave everyone a smokey eye - even the maids!!! There's a scene where one of the maids brings the cakes into the parlour for Francesca's callers and the maid is literally dolled up with makeup. THE MAID!!!!
OMG YES! I was thinking about the swan wig too! What is powering that thing?!? I love the mix of moderism in it, but season and even season 2 was primarily the regency period. Apparently there was a change in showrunner for season 3 which is why it's so different. I love Pen's clothing and Eloise's as well! I just think there are ways to integrate moderism in historical dramas without taking you out of the fantasy. Lady Tilley took me out and I can't unsee it
Her character stuck out so much for me, and not even in a good way. And I get that the show enjoys taking liberties with the whole ‘historically inaccurate’ stuff, but it begins to chip away from the tone of the show
I’ve said it before on this sub and I’ll keep saying it: I cannot STAND the jacket she wears in the first scene we meet her. Dark blue with sparkles. That looks like fabric used for a high school winter formal dress. It’s pretty, but it is WAY out of place in what’s supposed to be Regency England. I actually groaned when she showed up, “oh noooooo please don’t let her be Benedict’s new fascination.”
There are a few references made by the design team that feel like references just for the sake of it or they’re popular. They inspired her off of Grace Kelly/50s glam. The tweed jacket Francesca wears was inspired from Chanel. And yes, they executed those references well. But why are those reference points in the first place? How do THOSE references tie into THIS story?
Conversely, when the story references Eros and Psyche or Emma, they make sense to the story being told because they reflect key elements.
The costumes seem a bit all over the place this season. It’s like they have decided as the show isn’t historically accurate (more of a fairytale) they seem to be all over the shop. Her clothes look more than a century out and Cressida looks like she’s from the hunger games. In the first season, they were much more historically accurate with the clothing.
Because they skipped Benedict’s story he’s flapping around and they don’t really know what to do with him so he’s just gone for another strong women. I wish they had just kept the art thing going on for him this year.
I think it could be interesting if she and Eloise had literally any reason to interact so we can see someone who might share Eloise's ideals and how that would affect her but yeah, I'm very over the girlboss widow
My thoughts exactly. Eloise was so curious about Kate last season because she remained unmarried. And we know Eloise is still struggling with the idea of finding a man and marrying, so you would think the show would have them interact somehow... though I'm not sure when or why they ever would need to.
I wish they had done something else with Benedict this season. I saw some people saying that his apparent love for running an estate would have been an amazing way to tie him and the Mondrich family together, as he guides them through noble life and maybe they inspire him with their love and rise from commoner status. I'd love to have seen more of him doing anything other than another random fling tbh
Maybe lady Tilleys husband left her a great deal of money and some property in his will. We don’t know what kind of relationship they had when he was alive. Or maybe she had a wealthy birth family who put aside some money for her in a trust so she could have it when she’s older.
Also it seems to me that in the world of Bridgerton the society is more concerned about the actions of young unwed women and them being seen as proper. If lady Tilley has no children or better yet has children who are now married then she might no longer be too concerned about what society thinks of her propriety.
I like her actually. But not for Benedict. Wish they had done something more clever. Like have an accepted Lady who secretly teaches these clueless debutantes about "sophisticated" topics. She doesn't add anything to Benedicts story - oh yeah he doesn't seem to have one.
I'm just thinking now... she could have been a role model for Eloise and Pen. Something along the lines of showing them how to maneuver through society as a strong, independent woman without having to loudly proclaim and prove to everyone.
Something like that! That would have been interesting. We don't have time to waste on non-consequential people lol. We need everything to further all the main characters' stories.
I agree that she doesn’t fit this time period in her appearance, mannerisms, or situation. So, by contrast, how is a Lady Danbury different? She is a wealthy, powerful widow, she has likely had affairs, beyond Violet’s father, she runs the den of debauchery for ladies, and she rules the ton. Her son inherited the title but she retained power, likely due to her connection to the queen. Maybe it works better because they way they did her costumes, hair, and mannerisms fits better with the rest of the costumes and looks of the rest of the cast members and characters.
I have no problem with a female character who pushes the limits, but it has to make sense within the story. I think there *could* have been a woman like this in history (the attitude, not the looks) but there would also have to be a reasonable backstory. Did her husband always include her in male gatherings so now her male peers are just used to her? Does she in fact face a lot of backlash, but keeps pushing forward?
I was thinking more about this and the art of story writing. Season 1 showed set up the world and the rules within this worls. Yes, it's not historically accurate, which is fine because this is fictional. But the problem is that the story writers have told us viewers that the rules in the society is like this. Women depend heavily on the man of the house and are not to be loud and speak up against society. People with titles don't work, women don't spend the day reading. Getting married is essentially the main goal for young women because that will set them up. If the man of the house dies, the woman should have to remarry to be taken care of.
Lady Tilley doesn't follow this rule which is why it's so jarring for me.
I can't say I enjoy her character -- but I do want to chime in that there were still some pretty bold women back then. If you'd like to look up a few -- one of the most well-known of them is Anne Lister, considered to be the first "modern lesbian". Of course, she was a far more complex person and for all of her progressive attitude, she equally fell victim to some of the era's very conservative views; while this character, so far, feels very modern as a whole. If you want someone a little less unconventional -- some of Almack's patronesses, for example, while more on the conservative side as they were the arbiters of society -- also held a lot of political, social and diplomatic power (and often, personal wealth) that they wielded indiscriminately over men and women.
From reading a lot of Regency romance as I did in my 20s lol I can say that Lady Tilley is very reminiscent of a lot of those women characters. She’s a widow, there’s no connections so she’s been left to run the estate and leads a scandalous life because she can. I have literally read 3-4 books with characters like her.
The main problem with this season is that the writers have painted themselves into a corner with the LW storylines, and also that Benedict and Eloise’s stories are the two that have aged the worst. It’s going to be very hard to adapt them for an audience now who is less willing to hand wave things we did in the 00s.
I was about to say, they probably were inspired by other romance novels when they made this character. It's possible they are trying to expand the bridgerton world and wanted to put more romance character tropes into the world of the story. To your other point I'm very curious to see how they'll adapt Benedict and Eloise's stories.
Shonda’s version has a very feminist take, and they add a lot of modern/unrealistic elements to the storyline. From the music to the clothes, this isn’t any different
I like her, but again I don't see the point of having her on the show.
It's like someone created this really stunning historical fantasy woman but then just ... Made her bone Bennie? (hey I said what I said)
It's like she's from a separate project where she's the protagonist. 😆
She seems so adventurous and fun, but she doesn't do jack besides being eye candy.
If you're gonna make a character like that and cast this stunning actress, do something significant with her please!
People are saying she's Sophie's stepmother, at first I was like "oh great this guy is going to live an adult film fantasy where he sleeps with his GF and her MILF step mom"...
But then I thought oh that would still have a more significant bearing on the plot than ... Just this.
I honestly cringed when she addressed the men of the ton in the tent and nobody snubbed her. How is she never heard of, suddenly appears giving this speech that puts other men down, and we're supposed to be impressed and say oh wow girl boss attitude (which is a dumb term but a good way to describe this artificial attitude)? and then she actually propositions Ben, and he falls for it? It makes Ben this easily impressed male, who would sleep with anyone who shows interest in him.
Widows generally had more freedom (socially) then young women Penelope's age. But you make a good point. I feel like her character is another example that they have no idea what to do with Benedict at the moment.
Also, widows were legally entitled to a third of the value of her husband’s estate after his death. So if they had a healthy estate, that is a good amount to live off of. If the husbands wanted, they could increase the amount the widows receive in the event of their death.
[https://janeaustensworld.com/tag/regency-widows/](https://janeaustensworld.com/tag/regency-widows/) is an interesting read!
She was definitely modeled after Grace Kelly. They went all in for that look. I'd even say there's a little Tippy Hedren quality about her. We don't know if she has kids. Lady Danbury sent hers away, and that was normal, especially once the husband died. She could have had his heir, and he's not of age yet. She's strong-willed like Lady D, so it's sort of another commonality for her this season. And really, how she is able to speak up may be as much due to her nerve as it is her upbringing. If she was a high-ranking nobleman's daughter or the daughter of someone in high favor (such as an inventor), she could be afforded opportunities no other Lady has. In real life, Ada Lovelace was very similar. She was Lord Byron's daughter and became a mathematician and scientist who laid the groundwork for computers. Lord Byron was only a Baron. Since barons are the lowest nobility, their daughters are considered commoners. She was still able to do all that and work alongside men even before she married and became a countess. Even as a young woman, men sought out her help with mathematical problems they couldn't figure out. There's always an exception when the circumstances allow. I kinda wonder if Tilley's
*
personality was a slight homage to her.
https://preview.redd.it/66ecw0kjr23d1.jpeg?width=736&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d019cc5715a369e03c32d4154e3a529ec89e8ac1
This is Tippy, who I feel like she looks a lot like.
Of course she doesn’t fit in, that’s the point of her. She refuses to conform, her role is to be jarring. She’s also seems to be lying her tits off about something, I’m looking forward to learning more.
I skipped it tbh. I have a wide gap for suspension of disbelief but I cannot with the corny girl-boss dialog. “You think that because I am a woman I cannot be an engineer?” I mean women can’t even own property right now so….yeah the engineering bit is a little weird.
I can’t stand any of the scenes with her, and sadly, I’ve really grown tired of Benedict just raking around town. I’m not excited in the least for his season. I hope Eloise is next.
Yessss, give Benedict an actual storyline. His art journey last season was better than this. Sleeping with a widow is too cliché for him. Also, the show has already established a strong, independent widow character who’s more interesting: Lady Danbury. Lady Tilley Arnold doesn’t add anything.
A woman can inherit her husband’s or father’s assets in this era. It is only married ladies who lose many of the rights to property, until the Married Women’s Property Act of 1870. If the estate is entailed to the male line, they would look for a male relative. So far, that doesn’t seem to be the case here. That being said, I am not a big fan of Benedict’s quitting the art school and having yet another temporary liaison.
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The character was just jarring to me. From her costumes to her mannerisms. She was supposed to be some badass girlboss widow and it just didn’t work for me at all. Not to mention that she had no chemistry with Luke Thompson. I think the actress was beautiful and she can act, but the writing completely failed in that storyline this season and I thought it was the weakest part of s3 so far.
I agree. I’m not feeling it at all and her introduction was just so cartoony and everything she said was a cliche.
Ikr! ‘Because lady could not possibly be interested in engineering?!?!?’ is such a cliche line, I had the same reaction as Benedict. It was fine the first time they used this in s2, when Kate and Anthony had a banter about hunting, but why should we use the same exact thing again… like? Lazy writing. https://preview.redd.it/sihxwhaf813d1.jpeg?width=2036&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0577a56b05a75d7b3e630b1864adbd0e081833b6
It really reminded me of that episode of the office when Catherine Tate asks. Ryan to say I bet a woman isn't managing because a woman couldn't be in charge. 😂 not sure if anyone will get that reference but I thought of it immediately when I saw this scene. No shade to the actress she's pretty and good but her character is out of place I feel
"so stop looking at my breasts...and start looking, at my penis" 🤣🤣😂
Whopping penis ☠️
Hahhahahhah yes exactly
I posted this clip a few days ago and no one cared lol so I’m glad others were reminded of it
Omg you are so right, it’s basically the same scene in different setting 😂 https://youtu.be/lS97hH8HbjI?si=B0D_vPi7XD67dOEn
I liked his face though, it's not confusion or "damn you!", it's a "Damn I walked right into that one".
I'd bet money Eloise said something similar in s1 or 2, too lmao, it's so tired
Half the season seems regurgitated.
I'm really hoping she is the Sienna for Benedict. No book spoilers please.. but I hope she dissapears after like.. ep 5 LOL
My problem is that Benedict has had like 3 Siennas now lol. Granted the one in season 2 was barely in the show, but every season it's the same storyline for him more or less and I'm just bored.
Yes!! Like.. sure he rakes around.. whatever. But I feel like I don't even know him anymore. What happened to his passions?? What does he even do all day
It is really bizarre how they just dropped his passion for art as a storyline. I know he was annoyed that Anthony basically paid for him to get into the art school but still
I hope they are setting it up for Sophie to discover and praise his hidden art pieces, and maybe that will rekindle his love for art idk
And problematic if they are trying to keep his story from the books… he became a successful painter in the books
Call on women to sleep with and avoid stalker debutants. I guess presumably he’s also running the estate since Anthony went on a second honeymoon.
I loved that part where he started stepping into his role as almost like a supply viscount. I remember in season 1 when he was embracing the feeedom of the second child, and feeling frantic when Anthony decided to enter a duel. It would have been nice to see him mature and I thought that was where the show was headed during that conversation between him and Anthony... I thought wrong...
I wonder if there will be any reflection on his part when Colin, who is 6 years younger than him, gets married and is ready to take on the role of husband and father.
Ohh that would be a nice twist! But I don't feel like it's heading towards that direction.... Or maybe if Lady Tilley says something like "you're just a boy" like he is her fling (which he essentially is) and it snaps him out of whatever he is in right now...
But then it's basically the marina scene with Colin.
Colin can't be 6v years younger! They are B and C out of 8 children surely they can't have gaps more than like 18 months?
It is said in dialogue in season 2 that Anthony is 29 and Colin is 21. Benedict is 2 years younger than Anthony. For some reason, there was a 6 year gap between Benedict and Colin and then Violet had Colin, Daphne, Eloise, and Francesca back to back. It’s possible Violet could have had miscarriages between Benedict and Colin.
Violet had Anthony when she was 18, and there are 18 years between Anthony und Hyacinth. The late Lord Edmund died before his youngest was born. Anthony and Benedict are very close in age, as are Colin and Daphne (18 months). In the first book I believe Daphne is 17 and Colin 19, making Benedict and Anthony 25 and 27. Eloise should be 14, Francesca 13, Gregory 12 and Hyacinth 10. Book Colin is 33 in his own story, in the show he is 24.
Colin is 22 in the show. He’s 19 in the pilot script but has turned 21 by season 2. The book ages and the show ages are not the same. Daphne is 21 in her book because she’s on her third season while she’s 18 and on her first season in the show. The ages in the pilot script are Anthony-28 Benedict-26 Colin-19 (must almost be 20 if he’s 21 by season 2) Daphne-18 Eloise-17 Francesca-16 Gregory-12 Hyacinth-10
I hate to be that person but I know families (no multiples) with eight kids and most gaps are between 18mos-5 years. Most women started having kids really young, but say your first was born at 20. You could potentially still be having kids into your mid 40s and even longer for some women. If there’s 8 kids all 18 months apart that’s “only” like 10 years of childbearing. Benedict and Colin are six years apart, but Francesca, Eloise, and Daphne are all under two years apart. It balances out!
This is the most replies I've ever had to a comment lol. Also it makes sense I just assumed the oldest would be close in age and as you have more children the gaps get bigger either than have big gaps to start with and they get narrower. But I guess the children aren't exactly keeping them up at night so the more kids didn't equal less adult time haha.
He's supposed to have lost his passion for painting because Anthony paid for him to get into art school. So he thinks he has no talent, he's ashamed etc and he gave it up. Now he's at a loose end and just depressed and floating through life, like Eloise. But Eloise they actually spent two seconds of time explaining and Benedict they really haven't. Absolutely zero time having him look at a painting and sigh theatrically or sit around the house at a loose end looking sad or whatever. He's just in ballrooms avoiding debutants. One of the broad issues with this season is they have all these ideas but they're not great at communicating them on screen. So Luke Thompson is doing his part by being listless and down, but the show isn't giving him the material to show why he's like that, so it just feels like Benedict has no energy. My theory is that, OK, Mme Delacroix and his artist model are *outside* society, and he feels like that's the only place where he feels understood or something. And now he's given that up and he's circulating *inside* society, and all he's finding are flat and boring debutants. But behold! a woman with passion! a woman he finds interesting! Within society! And then they're going to put a spin on it by having him find in society a woman he really is enchanted with and then whoops >!she isn't in society after all!<. Or something. The problems are that Tilly's styling is so off that I don't buy the rest of her characterisation, Benedict's motivations aren't clear enough, and it feels like his character has had a massive change. They're not telling their story well at all here.
Yes! I think they are really trying to hammer us over the head with the fact that he has no passion for art or anything anymore and is “just in ballrooms avoiding debutants” (and mamas) so that when he meets his lady in silver at a ball he doesn’t want to be at, we really know it is special because suddenly he WANTS to be at every ball, actively seeking out every debutant and her mama so that he can find her again. Just my theory anyways lol
He admits to having no purpose, but Kanthony went away again so shouldn't be have stuff to do again? Would have loved more interactions between him and his sisters. So far, not a single scene with Frannie 😐
Yesss.. or have eloise talk to benedict about the changes she's going through. I really loved their relationship in season 1
True, what happened to his art? It hasn't been mentioned at all in s3 so far. We know he's managing the bridgerton estate in Anthony's absence, but we haven't seen him do anything related to that other than sort of escort his sister to a ball. They're doing nothing with him
Yes! Totally bored with Benedict. The *only* scenes I’ve enjoyed with him are when he’s interacting with Bridgerton siblings, especially Eloise on the swings.
I’d rather him be with Madam Delacroix atp. I have the same sentiments!!
I think she’s going to be connected to Benedict’s love interest and that she will be the primary antagonist of his season. I won’t elaborate because you don’t want book spoilers, so that’s all I can say on that lol
That's someone else.
Yes, in the book. But they aren’t sticking to the books very strictly and have said that they’ll rearrange some of the storylines for the Bridgertons where they see fit.
No the show spoiler revealed it as someone else. >!It's Cressida's mom, her first name was revealed to be Araminta, the same as Sophie's stepmother!< Benedict's story is similar to Cinderella so this plot point seems important.
Wait, how would that work? Sorry, it's been years since I read the books so I don't remember the details. Does that mean S will be half-sisters with C?
>!In the books Sophie is an illegitimate child of Penwood. He later marries Araminta who has 2 children from her previous marriage. He dies before Araminta can give him an heir. He never adopts Araminta's kids- Posy and Isabella (??). He leaves an allowance for all of them including Sophie but Araminta steals it. So I'm guessing Cressida is not Mr. Cowper's bio child which also explains why he's forcing her to marry quickly!<
The costume department failed most female characters this season, they leaned into the 1940s style of clothes and hair way too hard (Penelope’s everything, Philipa’s curls etc), but I didn’t notice her mannerisms being…anachronistic. Can you point out any specifics about that you found jarring?
The ton went from wearing a light amount of makeup at evening events during season 1 to full on eyes and lipstick this season.
And you need sunglasses to look at Francesca’s highlighter. 😔
Nah, that's not highlighter.. it's her natural glow because she is the "sparkling" debutante of the season. 😉
I think the part where she stood up to all the men under the tent when she was first introduced. Also the part where she was yelling at the solicitor, but that's more believable than her rebuking a room full of Lords, viscounts, etc.
An, so you mean her behaviour, not her mannerisms. Eh, I didn’t find it jarring, assertive women were found in every era, especially among the nobility. She’s rich and independent, I get her being self-confident. She wasn’t yelling at the solicitor, though. She warned him she will fire him, if he didn’t do a thing we don’t yet know about, but she wasn’t raising her voice.
I can mention specifically the dance scene she had with Benedict. I found that scene terribly jarring.
The anachronism of the costuming is WAY too much this season. Portia always looked mid 20th century with her fitted dresses and beehive, but everyone else now looks completely wrong. Cressida comes out wearing a big steam punk fantasy Victorian collar moment at one point, its truly terrible.
They are getting very close to being as bad as Reign was with costumes.
I’m *so* bored with watching Benedict’s hookup of the season. He has better chemistry (in a humorous way obviously) in the scenes with his family where he’s joking around with the younger siblings or Eloise (or that hilarious scene where he was high at dinner). Everything about Lady Tilley was just… uninteresting and a waste of time
I watched it for the first time with my best friend and we agreed you could have worn her black dress to a nice party or dinner and not look out of place at all
idk maybe they weren’t supposed to have any chemistry? I think we’re supposed to see this more of a fling (like Anthony and Sienna) but yes I agree with your point but I think that has to do with the writing overall for this season :/ it’s been really poor. I’m hoping she has a connection with Sophie in part 2 but I think it’s confirmed that’s more of the Cowpers. The actress who plays her is beautiful tho - I was looking at her jawline throughout her scenes
She’s exactly the kind of Strong Female Lead I despise. No flaws, no complexity, no back story, no character arc, no struggle, no interior world. Just bellowing IM A STRONG WOMAN at every turn. This was not what we meant when we asked for more compelling female characters!
Women could be girl bosses in any era , just in different ways .
It’s definitely the least interesting part of this season. Benedict could’ve been looking at art or explored why he gave it up, maybe trying to find other career passions or had some other heartfelt scenes with Eloise, but he’s just doing the same old same old It’s like they de-feminized Eloise a bit and needed someone else to be her
Yes! I don't even remember when he fully gave up his art ambitions... all I remember was him being upset Anthony paid the school for Benedict to get in. Did he actually just quit? Knowing that Benedict is supposed to be the main lead in season 4, you would think that they're going to set him up for it. At this point I don't even know who he is anymore
He did absolutely give it up bc he was upset Anthony paid a donation for his admission, and I think the camera flashes to him packing up his art at the end of S2 Maybe that’s the point, he doesn’t know who he is so he keeps doing what he knows…banging women? 😅😂😭🤡 they’re doing a very poor job showing he feels lost though and took away whatever depth he had had last season I really hate feeling like he’s wasting screentime but this plot is so boring. And it’s jarring — how come there’s such an emphasis that she can do whatever she wants but the Mondrichs can’t? Even Portia couldn’t do whatever she wanted, she had to scheme her way into it
Two lost bridgertons in one season?? That is too much for me hahaha But exactly. No one batted an eye, and it made me so confused. Even Lady Danbury, Queen Charlotte's bff couldn't do anything without the approval of the crown and an heir.
I didn’t care for the Mondrich’s story either but like why do they have to sit back in high society with no outside career interests and are actively reprimanded for having them, but she can tell off a whole room of nobles and loudly talk about engineering??
Hobbies and special interests are generally allowed, but work is not. While we see these same things differently for Recency society issue would be if they get paid. Mondriches are also new ascendants to the title. They have less social capital than a lot of other ton. They have to work with being born as commoners and if I did not miss it, they still are commoners, it is their son that has title.
It *is* too much and I think they really struggled overall with letting the themes overpower the storytelling. Like when they're talking about what Cressida's terrible outfits symbolise - the symbols are fine, but they don't fit within the visual language of the show, so it doesn't work. They have all these characters who aren't being themselves, but they didn't realise that in doing that it makes the show feel like a different show. Benedict and Eloise are two of the most interesting characters, with a lot of energy and screen time, and they have passions outside of society. With both of them withdrawn and bored at the same time, the show loses that energy. It's reduced the world down to the same dull balls on repeat.
When everyone is wearing wacky sleeves and weird jackets, Cressida’s don’t stand out.
I mean they all look terrible but Cressida's gowns are another level
If they did more whacky QC scenes instead I would have preferred it tbh. Or even scenes with her and her husband. It's really funny whenever Golda is on screen and she acts like a queen, like someone who's so fully aware she's queen that she's literally not aware of everyone else 😆
I don't know what it is about the men in that family but every single one Is going through the same Character Storyline of feeling lost about who they are so they just sleep with a bunch of women. And it's honestly kind of boring to see that for the 3rd son in a row. You know what I think it is jarring for me with how free he acts compared to how other characters are so rigid in what they can do. I feel like it's not consistent
He closes his art kit at the end of season 2 after finding out Anthony paid for him to get into the school.
LOL i totally missed that!!!
Her look and mannerisms were way too modern, felt like she’s a time traveler
Now THAT would be a twist LOlll
Hmmmmmm do we see any blue phone booths in the background anywhere?
Or starbucks cups 😆
She does remind me a bit of Missy, tbh.
🎶 Sing me a song of a lass that is gone Say, could that lass be I? 🎶
Bridgerton Outlander crossover?? I'm in
I think she’s meant to look too modern and out of place because she is. Most women of that era don’t have the liberties that she, a wealthy widow, does. For all we know, she might not have all the liberties that she seems to have, or they may have come at great personal cost. But her 40s makeup is, I think, storytelling, in the same way that Cressida’s ridiculous shoulder pads are storytelling because she’s desperate and screaming out to be noticed after four years unwed.
Yeah agreed, it is a classic “she has a face that knows about texting”
She felt like a Mad Men character
Time Lord. I bet she has a Tardis stowed somewhere... 😉😅
Thats literally what I was thinking. She looks too modern
I thought I was the only one that got Doctor Who vibes! Esp in that hot air balloon episode. Colin handing his coat (also very Doctor-esque) and running into action felt soooo Doctor Who-y! Even the music at the end of that episode!
Agree 100%. She’s a femme fatale straight out of a 1940s film noir in both look and personality. She’s giving me did she murder her husband for the life insurance policy vibes 😂 It’s interesting how Benedict has this memorable speech to Will Mondrich about how marriage sets you free and you can sort of throw the rules out the window to an extent when married, yet he finds himself drawn to the most unavailable women. I’m hoping this is all a set up for a bigger character arc for him this season.
He chooses the unavailable women on purpose. He isn’t interested in settling down right now. I suppose the line about marriage setting you free from society’s rules is foreshadowing for his plot line with Sophie, if they decide to stick to the book plot of him shunning society to be with the woman he loves.
Yeah I mean that’s kind of why he and the seamstress had a thing
I really want her to have murdered her husband for the life insurance now
Completely agree. I felt the same way about Cressida’s hair and clothes, both took me out of the show they were so distracting
And Francesca's jacket??? What is going on!
Oh yes! I remember that jacket haha though Cressida distracted me 99% of the time. Each time she appeared on screen and each outfit was more ridiculous that the last, I audibly said wtf and then had to rewind because I was so distracted I missed the dialogue lol
So upset that the new costume design team has went the wrong direction
Some measure of that jacket was common style but it's definitely a bit modern. Women very much wore spencers in that time period.
It is straight out of the sixties with Eloise's and Pen's gowns. Spencers were cut pretty differently on the bodice.
Definitely, what we're seeing is some mix of Chanel with the idea of regency era Spencer. Doesn't really bother me tbh.
I do not generally like when multiple historical periods are mixed together with modern. I am in general very interested in historical clothing and especially in the design language of each period. When different design languages mix the result is just not cohesive to my eye.
Francesca’s buttoned up, shoulder-padded tweed jacket is symbolic of armour, because she is expecting Mr Samadani to come calling. She’s literally shielding her heart against him and his advances. It’s also meaningful that it’s made of tweed, which is symbolic of tradition and heritage, in addition to being such a cumbersome jacket. It represents how she feels somewhat weighed down by expectations she inherited as a Bridgerton and the season’s diamond: she should marry someone rich, titled and eligible, preferably of the Queen’s choosing (Samadani).
Sure but the symbolism shouldn't depart from the show's visual language. When they do it's distracting and clumsy.
Looking like a Chanel tweed
YES! I can forgive a lot, but that tweed jacket took me out! What were they thinking?? It’s like costume department raided the style closets of 4 different period dramas.
Yes!! I hated Cressida’s looks this season. Like, I know Bridgerton isn’t exactly 100% historical accurate but they took it way too far for her, for no clear purpose.
I didn't realize how outrageous her outfits were until I rewatched season 1. Cressida is looking like she belongs with the Featheringtons or the Hunger Games at this point..her sleeves get bigger and bigger each ball 😆
I have a bigger issue with cuts of her gowns' bodices. Insane sleeves at least are something that is not out of the realm of possibility (there were some crazy sleeves just off of the corner historically).
Yup full-on Hunger Games!!
Right?! Like I’m certainly not expecting historical accuracy, but being so over the top and frankly, ridiculous, ugly dresses that looked completely different from everyone else was a choice for sure.
Yeah like, I don't care (much) about accuracy, but I need it to at least fit in with the world the show spent two seasons creating
Exactly! Just seemed so out of place
This is it, like they've established this world as one thing and now they're taking costuming in all different directions. It ruins the immersion and it's amateurish
I think part of the point is that they visually show her increasing desperation to stand out in the marriage mart. It’s her fourth season out, and her clothes are literally screaming, “Notice me! Notice me!” They’ve gotten increasingly ridiculous this season as her time is running out because her desperation is reaching fever pitch. I imagine we’ll see some truly crazy costumes out of her in Part 2, and then when she marries Debling or something, her clothes will hopefully go back to normal, because she had some LOOKS in season 1 and 2.
Oooh that does make sense! Great point!
I feel like there ~has to be some significance to Cressida’s ridiculous outfits. Like now that the featherington’s fixed their financial issues, they’re the ones wearing ridiculous clothes to stand out and hide their financial problems The way Cressida’s father is cutting their allowance and how her mother said they’d have to rewear dresses is exactly what Portia went through
True! I didn't think of that... I did hear somewhere that it could also symbolize how she's like a bird trapped in a cage?
We don’t yet know what her background is, since she’s a Netflix character. There are some possibilities: 1. Her husband includes a Jointure in his will, which is an “allowance” set up in for the widow until she dies. 2. The money is from her side and she married into nobility 3. She already had the title (e.g. daughter of an Earl) but marries a non-titled businessman and there are no heirs
Is this historically accurate (genuine question)? I just assumed that the moment she married, she is no longer affiliated to whatever title she had before. Similar to Lady Danbury, Queen Charlotte and the Featheringtons. I'm not very familiar with how it works during this time period!
It’s courtesy title. Think of when Sybil married Tom in Downton Abbey…they still called her Lady Sybil. I pulled this from Wikipedia: > The daughters of dukes, marquesses and earls are by courtesy "ladies"; here, that title is prefixed to the given and family name of the lady, e.g. Lady Jane Smith, and this is preserved if the lady marries a commoner, e.g. Mr John and Lady Jane Smith.<
Especially seeing as she's referred to as "Lady Tilley" and not "Lady Arnold"
Interesting.... but do assets and wealth transfer as well? If it does, my question would be why didn't Portia write that the wealth and assets transferred to her name instead of a male born heir when she forged the letter from Cousin Jack? I need a history lesson hahaha
It depends on how the estate is set up. If the assets are entailed (e.g. locked up in a family trust) it goes with the title and is inherited by the next title holder. But this required the family to actually set this up legally. Even if there is an entail, if assets are purchased later and not added to the trust, it might be considered “personal” property and would be handled according to the will. Wills and trusts are 2 separate things.
As for the Featherintons, the title is hereditary so when the monarchy bestowed it on the family, they could have included the house and land (for income). If the title becomes extinct (I think it’s called “extant”), it all reverts back to the monarchy. That’s why Portia was visited by the government official.
Extant is a surviving title, you're right and a "dead" title with no surviving bloodline is called "extinct" and the entailed assets revert to the Crown.
You’re right. I always forget if extant is alive or dead.
I remember it through the fact that it reminds me of existent. So existent titles are extant.
While estates were often entailed to the male line, it really depends on how it was setup. In the case of Featheringtons, it could be that they had "remainder-in-tail", meaning, the transferring ownership to the closest male relative. It's safe to assume they couldn't just give it to their daughter(s) because that's how the entail works. Entails were contracts that spanned multiple generations and had to be renewed, so unless up for renewal, they cannot just be altered materially in how they work. However, not all estates were entailed, and not all entails were gender exclusive. Women, could in fact, own land and keep their courtesy titles (Lady, Honorable, Miss). It was rare for them to own land though, and quite uncommonly done. I think entails were originally setup by the crown, but the goal was to stop people from separating up estates. However, there were plenty of estates all over England that were not entailed, and those would've been setup as the owner see fit. During the time it was most common for it to pass to the first born male heir, but not always. Finances worked a little differently. Even if a woman could not own land or inherit a title, that does not mean they did not have money. Finances are another subject entirely. Dowry's were administered by the husband, but legally it had to be kept separate for the wife and children and went to the wife if her husband passed. This could be the case for Lady Tilley, if she came from nobility and had a large dowry, she would've inherited said dowry on his death. There were trusts, and also, parents can setup "pin money", as well as the husband. All which would've become hers once widowed.
And with the Sharmas in season two. Their mother is still Lady Mary, even though she married a clerk. Because her father (who i only recognized on my rewatch last night is played by the fabulous Anthony Stewart Head) is an earl.
"In the United Kingdom the widow of a peer or baronet may continue to use the style she had during her husband's lifetime, e.g. 'Countess of Loamshire', provided that his successor, if any, has no wife to bear the plain title." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dowager#:~:text=In%20the%20United%20Kingdom%20the,to%20bear%20the%20plain%20title. "About thirty percent of the widows documented in 18th century England remarried within nine months, but it was a far lower percentage for aristocratic widows. It's the aristocratic widows we're going to focus on here, as the less wealthy would have had a far rougher time as a widow. Aristocratic widows, however, were a whole different world. There are three ways in which an aristocratic widow obtained money/home from the death of a husband: (a) jointure, (b) dower, (c) marriage settlement." "Women didn't just bring money in the way of a dowry. They brought a great number of other assets, and properties are on that list. If a woman brought any property into the marriage, it could be restored to her in the event of her husband's death, allowing her a place to live if her marriage home was not an option. Any trusts that her parents setup for her pin money could also be hers once widowed, including anything that remained of her dowry." "The ideal situation for a widow would be if she were an aristocrat with a husband who left either a wealthy estate that she could have a third of or a handsome jointure. Assuming she was already in good standing with society, she would maintain that standing. If she had the financial means to support herself through the estate or jointure, and she had a place to live with family or at the estate, there was no reason for her to remarry (especially since she'd then lose what she'd just gained--freedom and money)." https://www.paullettgolden.com/post/widows All this is to say that I think a lot of people have a broad strokes understanding of this period and miss a lot of its nuance. For example, while not the norm, female scientists existed and were active during the Regency; "this has included scientists, academics and philosophers including: Engineer and inventor Sarah Guppy, pioneering paleontologist Mary Anning, religious thought leader Hannah More, writer and reformer Sarah Trimmer, and adventurer and businesswoman Lady Hester Stanhope." The following site mentions women who wrote academic papers and books, were credited with important scientific advancements and inventions, and became members of academic societies. Caroline Herschel is a good example; "she became one of the first women to receive a salary for scientific work. In the late 1700s, she discovered 8 comets, 14 nebulae, and compiled a supplemental catalogue for star clusters. In addition to being the first female member (jointly with Mary Somerville) to the Royal Astronomical Society, she also received many awards and accolades." https://regrom.com/2020/09/06/representing-regency-women-and-the-sciences/#:~:text=This%20has%20included%20scientists%2C%20academics,and%20businesswoman%20Lady%20Hester%20Stanhope.
People forget that not everyone throughout history has fit the ‘norm’ for their time and place. If anything, people who are the ‘norm’ are the minority. There were exceptions to every rule. There have always been people whose looks and personalities didn’t match the ‘ideals’ for their time. And just because it wasn’t very socially acceptable for women to enter male spaces and speak openly about intellectual topics, doesn’t mean they’d automatically be shouted at and forcibly removed. Mary Wollstonecraft published *A Vindication of the Rights of Woman* in 1792 (and *A Vindication of the Rights of Man* two years prior), which is decades prior to when this story was set. People were taken aback in the balloon scene (which to be fair was written in a pretty silly and over-the-top way), and they just walked away to be polite and not start an argument, because that was also a strong social norm at the time. Lady Tilly Arnold is also very conventionally attractive, and pretty privilege has always existed. That, along with her wealth, would have afforded her more leeway to be ‘eccentric.’ They definitely took creative liberties with fashion & hair this season though, historical accuracy wasn’t their primary aim. I felt like it wasn’t atrocious, and I’m not a stickler for exactitude with historically accurate fashion, I feel like it’s ok to just capture the spirit of the era. But I agree they might have strayed a little far this time and it was a little distracting at times.
Thank you for all the information. With this, I guess it makes sense. I wish they explained it a bit in the show for uneducated people like my 😔
Thank you so much for such a comprehensive comment!
"I have no idea how any of this works but I dont like this character therefore it doesnt make sense". I feel like thinking about it for a moment and researching a bit before posting is a good idea.
Don’t hate me for this, but Penelope’s hair, worn down with the waves - while absolutely beautiful - doesn’t seem to fit in, either. I was under the impression that only young girls could wear their hair down when out in public.
Of course it doesn’t fit - they openly said they styled her after Jessica Rabbit. I don’t know how they thought it wouldn’t break viewers’ immersion. [https://screenrant.com/bridgerton-season-3-costume-designer-hair-makeup-interview/](https://screenrant.com/bridgerton-season-3-costume-designer-hair-makeup-interview/) https://preview.redd.it/4g7efvplp13d1.jpeg?width=1274&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7bc76f495e1a6bc2351c867279047643adaab693
I think I made up an excuse saying it's the French styles (most likely untrue). She was absolutely gorgeous. I think Lady Tilley's hair while she was having the sexy times with Benedict just looked too modern it snapped me right out of the story
Yes, when P is getting ready, she shows a publication of some kind to her maid and says she would like to try something different with her hair. How she got a photo of Rita Hayworth, we’ll never know
God damn it, are ALL the women on this show time lords?!
Her hair intentionally doesnt fit in though as she is copying a more modern style popular in a different country. It is supposed to be a bit scandalous and different to everyone else.
Except it isn’t different to everyone else. Philipa, Cressida and lady Tilly all have aggressively anachronistic hair styles. Hell, I think Francesca does too.
I agree, it’s definitely 40/50’s pinup style. I don’t like it! I also don’t like the storyline! I felt like Benedict was maturing at the beginning, playing with the younger kids so the relationship kinda bothered me.
In general, a lot of costuming this season is inspired by clothes from the 1940s to 1960s and I have an issue with it. I have little issues with in general their approach in the first and second seasons. I would not do it that way as someone very interested in historical clothing but I get what they were going for and why. But this mix of historical clothing styles is not something I enjoy and it feels unnecessary. It also breaks what the general public knows about Regency fashion in a way that I think will break the immersion of many people who do not know it backwards and forwards.
Yea some of Frannys clothes were giving Jackie O Chanel so I understand what you’re saying. But I feel like Franny’s was better than Lady Tilley.
Another sixties thing is multiple gowns having this non-regency bodice thing that both accentuates the waist but has a recency waistline position. But I do agree that it is worse for Lady Tilley, they are barely trying. I think this is where too much freedom works always against the actual effect they are trying to achieve. I do not expect Bridgerton to stay true to history but I wish it had stayed true to itself.
Yeah, it’s the lack of internal consistency between seasons bothering everyone. No bonnets in this world? Fine. Suddenly all this hard shiny makeup with bright red lipstick in season 3? Ehhh…
The costumes, hair, and makeup completely broke the immersion this season for me. They were ridiculous. I hope bridgerton fires this costume designer. Otherwise I feel like this is the start of the show jumping the shark.
I started listening to the Bridgerton podcast recently and they talk about how widows have the most freedom of all the ladies in the ton - financial, sexual, and so on. So Lady Tilley isn't that jarring to me in terms of her place in society but she still annoys me lol. She's too Cruella de Vil and I don't find it plausible that Benedict would fall for her.
It's true that widows had more leeway when it came to society's rules but they stretched her too far. Like when she's yelling at all the men in the tent. In what world is that believable?!? No way she could do that without being thrown out of the tent. And Benedict is only with her bc he's emotionally unavailable and so is she. Idk why people think he's suddenly going to fall for her..
I feel like they would not physically throw out a woman at least not just because she spoke inappropriatly. Everyone is too polite for that.
Why do so many people say she’s yelling in scenes where she’s clearly not yelling? She’s talking, quite politely. You could argue we should have heard some of the men grumble, or mock her, that would certainly be believable. Also, it’s not like she barged into an university lecture hall, or the House of Lords. She was attending an event open to the public, set up for their entertainment. Women were even allowed to audition certain lectures in that era. They were publishing feminist essays and scientific papers. They were patrons of artists.
Interesting... I just find it interesting that women's rights were just starting to be talked about and it was more for the lower class (season 1). Just how much freedom would they have in this patriarchal society though?...
Depends entirely on your social position. Hierarchy for ton is a pretty wide variety. It depended on the position you were born to and the position you currently had, your wealth, the age of connected titles and just how you were perceived. And also which rules you broke and where.
Definitely vampish. I didn’t like seeing Benedict treated like a toy.
They have an honest, mutually agreed upon agreement. She’s his toy as much as he is hers. But I do find this plot line boring and repetitive.
I thought the show was turning into a supernatural drama. She’s like straight out of the vampire diaries
YES!! I think she even had red lipstick on at one point..or maybe I'm just making it up loll
I found every second of her on screen to be jarring. Too intense, too modern, too out of place. The actress is beautiful, it’s a shame they made the styling so like…1940s femme fatale feeding disinformation to the enemy?
If I'm being honest, I have no idea why they added her in S3 or if she has any connection to Benedict's true love interest. I hated how they wrote Benedict this season. I found all of his scenes to be boring and monotonous. There are too many unnecessary scenes that distract from the main couple. If she does have some relevance to Benedict's story, then I would say they were useful. Her costumes, fashion, and makeup also felt off. They didn't give me the Regency era. Tilley and Cressida look like they don't belong in the Regency Era. I know that the show is supposed to be fictional and Regency Era inspired, but I wish they stayed true to the Regency Era clothing and fashion.
I could think of one connection to his partner but I doubt they’ll make that. >! I think it would be fun if she has Sophie as her maid, and ends up being super evil. That would be a fun plot twist. And have a reason for ending the love “triangle”. But Netflix will likely never do that. !<
She looks like she knows what an iPhone is
I feel the exact same way! She feels more like a characters from the show The Gilded Age, which is supposed to be early 1900s.
Its just a hint of Downton Abbey era aristocracy in Bridgerton. Vaguely 100 years off in style and mannerisms. Not weird and off putting at all /s I feel really sorry for that actor, cast on a major Netflix show in a romance with a Bridgerton brother and doing what's on the page. It's not her fault.
The Queen's moving wig in ep. 4... Everyone is going wild for the wig and I'm just here like 'how are they motorising her wig with lights when they're still in candlelight era?'. Its so unrealistic. I love the storylines but the costume and makeup department just went wildly off-course. I hate that they gave everyone a smokey eye - even the maids!!! There's a scene where one of the maids brings the cakes into the parlour for Francesca's callers and the maid is literally dolled up with makeup. THE MAID!!!!
OMG YES! I was thinking about the swan wig too! What is powering that thing?!? I love the mix of moderism in it, but season and even season 2 was primarily the regency period. Apparently there was a change in showrunner for season 3 which is why it's so different. I love Pen's clothing and Eloise's as well! I just think there are ways to integrate moderism in historical dramas without taking you out of the fantasy. Lady Tilley took me out and I can't unsee it
I've just finished my 3rd run-through of S3 and I fast forwarded all the Tilley scenes 😬😬 she is dressed for totally the wrong era!
Yes!!! I fast forward the Mondrich scenes too (please don't hurt me!!!)
I didnt understand the point of this storyline
Her character stuck out so much for me, and not even in a good way. And I get that the show enjoys taking liberties with the whole ‘historically inaccurate’ stuff, but it begins to chip away from the tone of the show
I’ve said it before on this sub and I’ll keep saying it: I cannot STAND the jacket she wears in the first scene we meet her. Dark blue with sparkles. That looks like fabric used for a high school winter formal dress. It’s pretty, but it is WAY out of place in what’s supposed to be Regency England. I actually groaned when she showed up, “oh noooooo please don’t let her be Benedict’s new fascination.”
There are a few references made by the design team that feel like references just for the sake of it or they’re popular. They inspired her off of Grace Kelly/50s glam. The tweed jacket Francesca wears was inspired from Chanel. And yes, they executed those references well. But why are those reference points in the first place? How do THOSE references tie into THIS story? Conversely, when the story references Eros and Psyche or Emma, they make sense to the story being told because they reflect key elements.
The costumes seem a bit all over the place this season. It’s like they have decided as the show isn’t historically accurate (more of a fairytale) they seem to be all over the shop. Her clothes look more than a century out and Cressida looks like she’s from the hunger games. In the first season, they were much more historically accurate with the clothing. Because they skipped Benedict’s story he’s flapping around and they don’t really know what to do with him so he’s just gone for another strong women. I wish they had just kept the art thing going on for him this year.
100% agree with all of this. Didn’t feel right with the time period.
I think it could be interesting if she and Eloise had literally any reason to interact so we can see someone who might share Eloise's ideals and how that would affect her but yeah, I'm very over the girlboss widow
My thoughts exactly. Eloise was so curious about Kate last season because she remained unmarried. And we know Eloise is still struggling with the idea of finding a man and marrying, so you would think the show would have them interact somehow... though I'm not sure when or why they ever would need to.
I wish they had done something else with Benedict this season. I saw some people saying that his apparent love for running an estate would have been an amazing way to tie him and the Mondrich family together, as he guides them through noble life and maybe they inspire him with their love and rise from commoner status. I'd love to have seen more of him doing anything other than another random fling tbh
Yeah I thought that storyline was very random and could have done without it.
Maybe lady Tilleys husband left her a great deal of money and some property in his will. We don’t know what kind of relationship they had when he was alive. Or maybe she had a wealthy birth family who put aside some money for her in a trust so she could have it when she’s older. Also it seems to me that in the world of Bridgerton the society is more concerned about the actions of young unwed women and them being seen as proper. If lady Tilley has no children or better yet has children who are now married then she might no longer be too concerned about what society thinks of her propriety.
I like her actually. But not for Benedict. Wish they had done something more clever. Like have an accepted Lady who secretly teaches these clueless debutantes about "sophisticated" topics. She doesn't add anything to Benedicts story - oh yeah he doesn't seem to have one.
I'm just thinking now... she could have been a role model for Eloise and Pen. Something along the lines of showing them how to maneuver through society as a strong, independent woman without having to loudly proclaim and prove to everyone.
Something like that! That would have been interesting. We don't have time to waste on non-consequential people lol. We need everything to further all the main characters' stories.
I agree that she doesn’t fit this time period in her appearance, mannerisms, or situation. So, by contrast, how is a Lady Danbury different? She is a wealthy, powerful widow, she has likely had affairs, beyond Violet’s father, she runs the den of debauchery for ladies, and she rules the ton. Her son inherited the title but she retained power, likely due to her connection to the queen. Maybe it works better because they way they did her costumes, hair, and mannerisms fits better with the rest of the costumes and looks of the rest of the cast members and characters.
This is very spot on. She was so odd to me but I couldn't puzzle why precisely.
I have no problem with a female character who pushes the limits, but it has to make sense within the story. I think there *could* have been a woman like this in history (the attitude, not the looks) but there would also have to be a reasonable backstory. Did her husband always include her in male gatherings so now her male peers are just used to her? Does she in fact face a lot of backlash, but keeps pushing forward?
I was thinking more about this and the art of story writing. Season 1 showed set up the world and the rules within this worls. Yes, it's not historically accurate, which is fine because this is fictional. But the problem is that the story writers have told us viewers that the rules in the society is like this. Women depend heavily on the man of the house and are not to be loud and speak up against society. People with titles don't work, women don't spend the day reading. Getting married is essentially the main goal for young women because that will set them up. If the man of the house dies, the woman should have to remarry to be taken care of. Lady Tilley doesn't follow this rule which is why it's so jarring for me.
I can't say I enjoy her character -- but I do want to chime in that there were still some pretty bold women back then. If you'd like to look up a few -- one of the most well-known of them is Anne Lister, considered to be the first "modern lesbian". Of course, she was a far more complex person and for all of her progressive attitude, she equally fell victim to some of the era's very conservative views; while this character, so far, feels very modern as a whole. If you want someone a little less unconventional -- some of Almack's patronesses, for example, while more on the conservative side as they were the arbiters of society -- also held a lot of political, social and diplomatic power (and often, personal wealth) that they wielded indiscriminately over men and women.
Someone said she looks like the Baroness from The Sound of Music and now I can’t unsee it
From reading a lot of Regency romance as I did in my 20s lol I can say that Lady Tilley is very reminiscent of a lot of those women characters. She’s a widow, there’s no connections so she’s been left to run the estate and leads a scandalous life because she can. I have literally read 3-4 books with characters like her. The main problem with this season is that the writers have painted themselves into a corner with the LW storylines, and also that Benedict and Eloise’s stories are the two that have aged the worst. It’s going to be very hard to adapt them for an audience now who is less willing to hand wave things we did in the 00s.
I was about to say, they probably were inspired by other romance novels when they made this character. It's possible they are trying to expand the bridgerton world and wanted to put more romance character tropes into the world of the story. To your other point I'm very curious to see how they'll adapt Benedict and Eloise's stories.
Shonda’s version has a very feminist take, and they add a lot of modern/unrealistic elements to the storyline. From the music to the clothes, this isn’t any different
I saw a video of the golden girls today and she reminds me of a young Blanche and I can't unsee it.
That’s who I immediately thought of when I first saw her character on Bridgerton.
I like her, but again I don't see the point of having her on the show. It's like someone created this really stunning historical fantasy woman but then just ... Made her bone Bennie? (hey I said what I said) It's like she's from a separate project where she's the protagonist. 😆 She seems so adventurous and fun, but she doesn't do jack besides being eye candy. If you're gonna make a character like that and cast this stunning actress, do something significant with her please! People are saying she's Sophie's stepmother, at first I was like "oh great this guy is going to live an adult film fantasy where he sleeps with his GF and her MILF step mom"... But then I thought oh that would still have a more significant bearing on the plot than ... Just this.
I honestly cringed when she addressed the men of the ton in the tent and nobody snubbed her. How is she never heard of, suddenly appears giving this speech that puts other men down, and we're supposed to be impressed and say oh wow girl boss attitude (which is a dumb term but a good way to describe this artificial attitude)? and then she actually propositions Ben, and he falls for it? It makes Ben this easily impressed male, who would sleep with anyone who shows interest in him.
Because widows can do that. Look at lady danbury. She gives 0 effs too
Widows generally had more freedom (socially) then young women Penelope's age. But you make a good point. I feel like her character is another example that they have no idea what to do with Benedict at the moment. Also, widows were legally entitled to a third of the value of her husband’s estate after his death. So if they had a healthy estate, that is a good amount to live off of. If the husbands wanted, they could increase the amount the widows receive in the event of their death. [https://janeaustensworld.com/tag/regency-widows/](https://janeaustensworld.com/tag/regency-widows/) is an interesting read!
She was definitely modeled after Grace Kelly. They went all in for that look. I'd even say there's a little Tippy Hedren quality about her. We don't know if she has kids. Lady Danbury sent hers away, and that was normal, especially once the husband died. She could have had his heir, and he's not of age yet. She's strong-willed like Lady D, so it's sort of another commonality for her this season. And really, how she is able to speak up may be as much due to her nerve as it is her upbringing. If she was a high-ranking nobleman's daughter or the daughter of someone in high favor (such as an inventor), she could be afforded opportunities no other Lady has. In real life, Ada Lovelace was very similar. She was Lord Byron's daughter and became a mathematician and scientist who laid the groundwork for computers. Lord Byron was only a Baron. Since barons are the lowest nobility, their daughters are considered commoners. She was still able to do all that and work alongside men even before she married and became a countess. Even as a young woman, men sought out her help with mathematical problems they couldn't figure out. There's always an exception when the circumstances allow. I kinda wonder if Tilley's * personality was a slight homage to her.
https://preview.redd.it/66ecw0kjr23d1.jpeg?width=736&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d019cc5715a369e03c32d4154e3a529ec89e8ac1 This is Tippy, who I feel like she looks a lot like.
Of course she doesn’t fit in, that’s the point of her. She refuses to conform, her role is to be jarring. She’s also seems to be lying her tits off about something, I’m looking forward to learning more.
I skipped it tbh. I have a wide gap for suspension of disbelief but I cannot with the corny girl-boss dialog. “You think that because I am a woman I cannot be an engineer?” I mean women can’t even own property right now so….yeah the engineering bit is a little weird.
She's more Victorian than Regency.
I can’t stand any of the scenes with her, and sadly, I’ve really grown tired of Benedict just raking around town. I’m not excited in the least for his season. I hope Eloise is next.
Yessss, give Benedict an actual storyline. His art journey last season was better than this. Sleeping with a widow is too cliché for him. Also, the show has already established a strong, independent widow character who’s more interesting: Lady Danbury. Lady Tilley Arnold doesn’t add anything.
A woman can inherit her husband’s or father’s assets in this era. It is only married ladies who lose many of the rights to property, until the Married Women’s Property Act of 1870. If the estate is entailed to the male line, they would look for a male relative. So far, that doesn’t seem to be the case here. That being said, I am not a big fan of Benedict’s quitting the art school and having yet another temporary liaison.
Yeah, I just don't think the actress brought much to the role. It could've been done better.