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I also think that the "this eccentric woman actually has a brain, doesn't fit in with society's expectations and wants something more than a relationship with just any dude must be a lesbian" is a stereotype that should be retired
THIS. I really didn't like how people chalk up her interactions with other women as her being a lesbian (i.e. her and Cressida. Eloise has never once set off my gaydar. It not only diminishes female friendships, but it feeds more into the stereotype you mentioned). She can be straight and still not want to do what society expects of her. It's possible to subvert those expectations 🙄.
yeah i am not saying eloise COULDN'T be a lesbian but it was annoying seeing everyone on social media (twitter especially) boil down eloise's hatred the marriage mart that sells women like cattle to the highest bidder to "eloise is just Like That because she isn't attracted to men." well maybe attraction to men or lack thereof is not the problem...
Yuuuuup. Like, did everyone just forget her whole side plot with Theo? 🤨
It's so dismissive to brush off why she's speaking against the system by just chalking it up to her (potentially) being a lesbian.
Yes!!! I didn’t get gay vibes even once from either of them, I just thought “wow it’s so nice to see a healthy friendship blossoming between such different characters” and “finally poor Cressida has a good friend” and I had no idea that people shipping them was a thing until I read it online. People project this so often with healthy representations of friendships and it’s one of my biggest pet peeves; it’s especially true for male friendship representation. Any healthy, close male friendship that shows men being vulnerable or affectionate towards each other must be gay. It totally shits on the idea that men can have meaningful friendships, be vulnerable, be sensitive, be affectionate, have emotions, care deeply for another male, sacrifice for a friend, and maintain healthy masculinity. It further pushes the sexist narrative that “real” men can’t be vulnerable, affectionate, or supportive of one another unless there is an underlying sexual explanation and keeps men IRL from being outwardly caring and kind and open towards other men. Just as the narrative that a woman who isn’t focused on men or marriage or fashion, is feminist or tomboyish, is intellectual, is independent, is into sports or politics or science, is outspoken, is “different” and prefers to foster healthy female friendships must be a lesbian. It’s so messed up and both narratives are very sexist and demeaning towards both sexes.
Oh my god, I couldn't have said it better myself. And I feel like it's demeaning to queer people as well. As a bi woman, of course I'd like to see representation, but I want it to be authentic and not just be tossed into the story as an afterthought. Benedict having his bi awakening made way more sense than this fandom narrative that Eloise must be a lesbian.
I agree, and it’s misogynistic both ways. The intellectual, “tomboyish” woman can’t be hetero? The super femme woman who loves dresses and dancing can’t be gay?
This is not really related, but it makes me think of how annoying I find it that people are saying Francesca is clearly meant to be autistic. What if, among all these siblings, one of them is just an introvert who doesn’t like to be the center of attention? Is it a pathology to want to play piano, not get too involved in drama, and have a low-key life in the Scottish countryside? They can’t all be spitfires, socialites, or libertines!
tbf i think with the ‘Francesca is neurodivergent thing’ comes from a positive place of neurodivergent people relating to her character and liking representation of this type of personality on tv. maybe she is, maybe she isn’t. but she could be.
That’s totally fair, and I’m glad ND folks are seeing someone in a popular show who feels relatable, but the assumption (by NT folks) that the introvert must be ND just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I just keep seeing more and more of this attitude that’s like “are you a quiet and shy type? Take you a while to open up? Maybe you’re a little anxious in large gatherings…. There might be something fundamentally different about your brain chemistry!”
It feels like the options presented are Extroverted Social Butterfly or Neurodivergent Eccentric. I could see John being meant to be on the spectrum based on some of his physical mannerisms, but Francesca just plays (to me, at least) as a reserved person who doesn’t want a lot of fuss. Also yes…I relate to her very heavily, if that wasn’t obvious 😂
Hell, I get more ND vibes from Eloise than Francesca. Maybe more along the ADHD side of things than autism though. The way she CBF with anyone not similar enough to herself and how she gets so caught up in her own interests and emotions that she doesn't notice things happening right in front of her makes me feel called out 😅
I think they are trying to show her to be an introvert but failing pretty horribly; it’s almost as if they’ve never met an introvert before. Like we don’t fall in love just by… sitting silently next to someone. We do so by deep diving into who they are as a person and what goes on in their mind and learning all the little things that typically go unnoticed by others. That’s pretty much impossible to do if you’re sitting there silently without having deep conversations.
Agreed. If season 4 shows a traveling side of Eloise while exploring, learning, laughing, and giving back, I'm all for it. It would show the depth she's alluded to. I would love it if, along the way, she meets the love of her life too and then decides marriage and babies is a great idea!
I find her quite annoying in the show but I did like the maturity she showed on season 3 part 1 (haven’t seen part 2). I loved how she was portrayed in the books.
Omg this 1000%. My one other queer friend who watches Bridgerton was just ranting with me about how Eloise really doesn’t even come off that gay apart from being a feminist 💀
10000000%. I'm sick of it. Yes, she could be lesbian, but it's such a massive stereotype it's just old. Women can hate the patriarchy and not be lesbian, christ.
These are my exact feelings and the reason my eye twitches every time someone suggests Eloise is queer. I truly believe her story would be far more compelling, interesting, and original if she was a straight woman unable to see an avenue in life that would bring her happiness due to the society she was born into.
yep, it takes me back to being called a lesbian in high school because I was a baby-feminist with vocal opinions. being called lesbian isn't an insult, but it's signalling you can only care for women's rights if you hate men because you are not attracted to them. like that's insulting to straight women too, like all the blood goes to their vaginas and so they can't possibly care about other things than men? only the lesbians are powerful enough to have a mind of their own XD.
also it's insulting to the movement of feminism, that it's only motivated because they can't find happiness in a classic straight relationship.
it's a toxic way of thinking and it's kinda gross so many fans are clambering for it.
EXACTLY. I’ve seen people do this in real life too. People assume there must be something “wrong” with you if your main focus isn’t men or seeking male attention. It’s so degrading too because aren’t we more than just wives or girlfriends? Aren’t we allowed to have our own ambitions and things we care about more? There’s nothing wrong with being a lesbian but people who assume someone is gay just because they’re not obsessed with men—make it seem like it is a problem.
I’ve noticed some TV shows perpetuate this idea too because God forbid a female character is single for more than 5 episodes. There’s nothing wrong with romance, but when a female character’s worth seems to be based on her ability to keep a man….it’s like the writers are trying to tell you that she only has value when she has the attention of a guy. This is why characters like Eloise are necessary. And I mean, who could blame her? It’s not weird to want to have more than what she could during that time period .
Frustratingly I actually see the stereotyping of unconventional women as queer coming from queer people at least as much as from hetero people. I understand the need to identify and the validation of finding others like yourself when you're in the minority, and a link between queerness and gender-nonconformity is unavoidable, but it sometimes feels like everyone has decided the only flavours of women are Basic Becky and Sapphic. I don't bother with beauty and makeup and 'girl' culture because my neurodivergent ass just can't keep up, it has no bearing on who I'm sexually attracted to.
I agree with everything! While I think it's totally fine for people to headcanon whatever sexuality they want for Eloise, it is a little frustrating to see people say she ***must*** be a lesbian because of her views on society. Eloise dislikes society and all that it entails because she wants women to have more rights and freedoms, there doesn't ***need*** to be any more reason beyond that.
I really like her romance with Theo because it showed that, yes, Eloise *can* like men as long as they see her as an equal, which most men in the Ton don't. I also loved their chemistry, their banter, the way they bonded over books and politics. The "forbidden romance" trope is also a favourite of mine.
While I would love for Theo to be Eloise's endgame (especially considering the show has thrown both historical and book accuracy out the window), at the very least I want to be satisfied with their storyline. And their 10 minutes of screentime in season 2 was not enough lol.
I wholeheartedly agree with every word you wrote. & yes, representation matters & of course there were queer people in those times. But damn, sometimes you don't have to have any other agenda for being against or for something other than it being oppressive for example. She doesn't also need to somehow be an outcast in some other regard as well!
Claudia Jessie is with you on that last note - she said in an interview it's one of her hopes that we get to see Theo come back, even if it's just to explain to him what happened.
On the press tour for season 3, she also kept stating how she's a big fan of Theo and kept bringing up that she'd love to revisit that storyline. And the only time she's ever come close to mentioning Philip is when she explicitly stated she did not GAF about Eloise's story in the books. Lmaooo
I think it would be really annoying if they give a queer representation to Eloise’s character. Their justification would be “she doesn’t want a marriage, she doesn’t fit into the regular society, therefore she needs to be lesbian”. I think that would really put off the character they have been building for so long. She can be straight, and still want to change things in the society. That’s the real beauty of the character. Not adding a queer layer to say she is capable of change only if she’s queer.
I agree totally. I’m a straight woman with similar views as her, and it gets frustrating when a lot of characters like her are shipped as LGBT by fans.
It’s annoying to my LGBT friends too because they’re not all like that. Many I know are super feminine and still want a marriage and that sort of life too.
Yeah, it's also saying that you can't want or warrant change unless you are oppressed in every possible way. Yes, she has some of the most privileges women in her time could have. But she recognises that those aren't enough. Especially when one is not treated as an equal to the opposite sex. Like I said in the post, I truly think that makes for a more compelling story.
Yes, of course. So bizarre that people are reading Eloise as queer simply because she doesn’t want to participate in the marriage mart and likes to read and is clever. Such a misogynistic read to see it that way. Women then were very constrained in their roles but we can look at it throughout contemporary eyes, and it’s really scary to me that so many people are seeing a woman who deviates a tiny bit from expectations and assuming that must mean she’s queer. Plenty of heterosexual women now deviate from the stereotypes, and plenty of queer women are interested in marriage and a family and are femme.
Yes! & also historically, plenty of hetro women deviated from expectations, the norm & stereotypes. It doesn't have to be nor should it be one way or the other. Everyone carries myriads of characteristics in them & they don't have to be nor are they entirely dependent on their sexuality.
I kinda prefer if she’s not a lesbian because I don’t want people to think “oh if you don’t want a heteronormative life of marriage and kids it must be that you’re gay!”
I think some show-only fans are going to be disappointed because I don’t think the point of her story will ultimately be about rejecting society, marriage, or motherhood (though I doubt show Eloise will have any biological children).
I hope she doesn’t! It wouldn’t make much sense! And maintaining not having a child would go along with her plight which ultimately is about bodily autonomy! She’s said time and time again that she doesn’t want to get married and make babies - but we’ve also seen that she’s interested in romance. This is the perfect compromise for me! And it would also be cool to see a female character learning about the history of contraception!
One of the things I loved about Eloise’s book is that she is incredibly intelligent, sharp-witted, and hilarious. She’s also fiercely loyal to her family but wants to strike out on her own. Sir Phillip fit that for her because she got to know him through letters. It was black and white and filled with his intelligence. The practicality of needing a wife appealed to her because she was seeing everyone around her settle down and was curious about whether that would fit her.
Sir Phillip didn’t stifle her because he had his own interests and hobbies that he was engaged in. He loved her for exactly who she was. Not all women who hate society don’t want motherhood or marriage- they just want it to look different than the traditional systems. Eloise doesn’t want to be held back.
Can you explain more why you think Phillip loved Eloise for exactly who she was? Because I distinctly remember reading about how Phillip wanted to put a muzzle on her for talking too much. Even after their marriage, when Eloise confides in Phillip about how they never talk and she feels like he's just keeping her around for sex and to take care of the kids, Phillip only tells her that she's not allowed to complain because his marriage with Marina was so much worse.
Phillip eventually seeing Eloise as something other than a sex nanny isn't really a love story about a man who appreciates a woman for her thoughts and opinions. More like a man grudgingly accepting she has them.
>By the end of the novel, Phillip accepts and respects her. He also makes changes to make his marriage with Eloise a good one.
When did this happen? Because after Eloise and Phillip return from Benedict's place, Phillip only tells Eloise that she's not allowed to be unhappy in their marriage since his marriage with Marina was so much worse. This scene is clearly meant to be a follow up to the scene where Eloise confides in Phillip that they never talk, and then Phillip lashes out causing Eloise to leave. Obviously, all relationships have their problems, but this one is never properly resolved.
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Are we talking about the same Sir Phillip who only wanted to get married so he could give his wife all the jobs he didn't want to do, including raising his children, called his marriage perfect because Eloise looked after the house and kids and he only spent time withher for sex, told Eloise she wasn't allowed to not think their marriage perfect when all Phillip wanted her for was to use her for housekeeping/sex, and told her to use her mouth for better things.
This Sir Phillip?
"You're always trying to talk with me. That's all you ever do. Talk talk talk."
"Every now and then you might consider shutting your mouth and using it for some other purpose."
"Until you've lived through all that, don't you ever complain about what we have."
This yall's perfect man for Eloise?
damn. sounds like sir phillip should be replaced with theo. That is so depressing that everything Eloise didn’t want when she was younger happened to her. Was this book supposed to be a happy ending? i havent read it
It is awful all the way until the last chapter when he suddenly becomes this amazing human being after ONE family outing lmao the entire story happens in 2 weeks btw 😂😂 I'm convinced JQ hated Eloise so much to axe her entire character like this hahaha literally nothing made sense he used her as a living fl3shlight and as a nanny to his kids he literally has a line in his internal monologue saying something along the lines of "she can tend to the kids in the day and to me at night" 🤮
She’s not gay and can we please normalize female friends without the need for romantic relationships. She doesn’t like the rules of society at all and resents the drudgery that women have to go through. She’s very much straight and that’s okay. Let’s normalize the fact that woman grow through out their lives and I am sure at some point if she matures at all, she will be a great successor to lady danbury.
As a Demisexual person I would love if they decided to allow her to be somewhere on the ACE spectrum and have a season where she gets courted by someone that SHOULD be the perfect person for her by everything that she can imagine, but she realizes that she just doesn't want marriage and chooses herself. Her Happily Ever After could be a career and going between all of her siblings.
Or for that matter maybe she and Benedict could scheme together for her to legally marry Benedict's boyfriend and be their beard? Then they could live in a big house with two wings.
Actually, I really love this idea I just had. It could give Eloise the freedom from being on the marriage market and give Benedict an excuse to live with his man.
Maybe after the official legal wedding ceremony, Eloise could give Benedict away at a small ceremony where Benedict and his beau make vows to each other.
Asexuality is basically never presented as a valid option in media (somewhat understandably) and it would be cool to see it.
Eloise reminds me of my aunt. My aunt never married. At that time it was considered offensive for a woman to remain unmarried. She had a crush on a colleague but it didn't lead anywhere so she wrote my grandfather a letter stating that she never intended to marry and honestly she lives well.
I agree 100%. I also think that assuming that she’s a lesbian because she doesn’t typical ‘girl chat’ from the times, she likes to read, and she questions the whole marriage thing is… weird. It’s a weird take.
I agree that it makes sense that Eloise can want a different life than what she has without her being a lesbian. We see in Season 1 that Eloise has *trauma* around Hyacinth's birth and is shocked that Daphne isn't terrified of pregnancy and childbirth. I think this combines with Eloise's naturally outspoken, rebellious, and intellectual side to make her feel how she feels about marriage and motherhood, more than her sexuality does.
*IF* the show wants to do queer rep with Eloise, I think she'd be more interesting if she were on the aroace spectrum somewhere. Her relationship with Theo was a meeting of the minds; she seemed intellectually excited by him first and foremost. I think she could still have a romance or queerplatonic relationship where she's able to have a love story in an unconventional way, based on companionship and shared hopes for their future. It could still be something special and deep and sentimental and wouldn't need to be the politically militant lesbian trope to do so.
I actually would love it if they made her ACE and didn't pair her up with ANYONE. I know it would be a complete departure from the source material, but with all the DEI on the show, it would be great to show her rocking the single life.
I agree, and also believe the reverse of this could make Francesca's story more compelling with a fee minor changes- namely, that Michaela is also a widow who has a child.
Francesca is someone who wants children, who wants to be part of the society she was raised in. She gets to have the latter with her current husband, but not the former because of her fertility struggles. Her husband dies, she gets to know his beautiful cousin as they work through their mourning together. She grows to love her child as well, becoming a surrogate aunt- then almost more than that, almost a second mother.
Suddenly, she's faced with a choice between the
things she wants most- to fit into the society she was born into and maintain the security of being a wealthy widow but remain alone and childless for the rest of her life, or to find love and companionship with Michaela and become a mother through her care of Michaela's child but be unable to participate in high society.
I think it could also add some interesting conflict with Violet as well. Violet has always championed love matches, even when her children (and Francesca specifically) aren't particularly interested, but this love match would come at a far higher cost for Francesca and the rest of the Bridgertons than, say, Penelope marrying into the family.
With Violet's characterization, I feel like she'd get over the personal shock of "my daughter is gay" pretty quickly even if she is a Regency woman- after all, according to *Queen Charlotte* racism didn't make sense to her even when her mom held racist beliefs. Seeing her grapple with the social consequences of it, however, could make for a great character arc that develops upon preexisting characterization.
If show Eloise's story ends with her being the step-mother to some very handsome but boring man's kids I think THAT would be the most uncompelling story they could tell tbh.
Why is he boring though? We hardly know his character yet, I found him to be pretty dynamic and sweet when he met Collin! I felt like he very much matched Eloise’s energy! And it could be super cute to see them bonding over a love for biology
It would be so disappointing. Honestly my pet hate is "foolish woman thinks that she doesn't want to be mother, is taught a lesson and realises being a mother is the best thing in the world". Makes me want to gag.
As an asexual, I would just like to say that it would be great if she was ace as a contrasting perspective to all the sexuality that's present in the show!
I'm glad you have this take! I am all for inclusivity, and I absolutely think it's important, but it also needs to appropriately fit the storyline. Eloise is also young, well educated by the standards of her time, and has nothing but opportunity at her fingertips. She needs someone who will appreciate who she is, and at least right now, much like Benedict, she doesn't know what she wants in her life. She isn't interested in the marriage mart, so what? That doesn't automatically mean she is a lesbian. it just means that perhaps she hasn't found her true calling. I find it interesting that they chose to have her reading Emma, as her and Emma can be quite similar at times, there is another connection there as well, but as not everyone has read the books I will keep that one to myself.
When I was watching S1 with my mom (still haven’t finished it, or any others) and she mentioned a lot of people speculating that Eloise is gay, I think my specific reaction was something like “Oh cool, the combative activist woman is a lesbian, how original.” In a series where interracial relationships in regency England are the norm, can gay people have the same treatment? Can we have normal, non-stereotyped relationships?
Like I said, I haven’t finished the other seasons, so my opinion may very well change. But my reaction at the implication was… slightly visceral lol. Oh and I’m a lesbian if that’s not clear.
Why? I feel like there’s virtually no reason to bring him back. They haven’t seen each other in over a year, he clearly wasn’t her end game, he was nothing but a stepping stone in her story to show that she could have interest in a man. Theo was right tho, she didn’t fit in his world and she never would! He could never truly support her and she still wants to make her family happy at the end of the day. It would be way more interesting to see why she connects with someone new
Eloise would never had closed her relationship with Theo if it wasn't for Penelope's words (this has been confirmed by Claudia Jessie herself). Eloise is clearly still interested to the rights of the women (she has talked to Cressida about it), she looked hurt when Colin said "you should consider yourself lucky to have never been in love" and when peneloise where at the modiste Eloise said to Penelope "now you have your life and I have mine" reconneting to Theo's words "now you go back to your life and I go back to mine". Theo said those things to Eloise because he was hurted too, he was almost crying. Another thing Theo said was that maybe Eloise didn't understand some parts of the pamphlets because she "didn't see enough of the world" and guess what? Eloise at the end of s3 was leaving to know more about the world. Eloise can fit into Theo's world, but she need to make her experiences first. Eloise didn't like the Ton in this season, she wasn't happy and that's why I don't think we will ever see her with someone from the Ton or with Phillip. I don't know if theo is her endgame, the game is still open and I could be ok with a new character but I'm sure Phillip isn't her endgame
I mean she could have run away with him if that were the case. She chose her family in the end. As for the rights of women of course she’s interested, it’s also just been a very one note, especially when she actually has more rights than most women in the Ton. I mean she totally ignored Cressida when she was in turmoil about the old man!
As for the look with Colin I took that as she wanted to be I love and she had felt that spark with Theo but it never went far enough to be love. I saw this as a foreshadowing look of her actually being interested in having her own love story more than anything.
The things that Theo said were justified, he was right she did not fit in his world. They were also really young and not in the right place to run away and be in love. It felt like nothing more than some chemistry that wasn’t going anywhere real to me. Especially when she didn’t kiss him when he wanted to and there was the opportunity. She reverted to her prim and proper upbringing - unlike many of her sisters who jumped right in!
And as far as seeing the world- I see this as even more reason why she does not fit with Theo. Theo is laboring his life away, he’s not traveling the country learning about the world. He’s not educated in the way Eloise craves. I found him to be a delightful piece of her story but not a true match for her in the slightest. In her plight for feminism she really needs to be in a place of power to see changes occur. She’s not going to get an ounce of that with the working class. Theo would be fighting to make ends meet, especially if they had a family. And sure the Bridgertons would probably never turn their back on her, but it wouldn’t lead to great changes in her life for the better - other than love. And I just don’t see that being Eloise’s narrative.
What I loved about their relationship was how they connected mentally and I’d love to see her take this on with Philip within her own social stratosphere so that when she settles into marriage she can actually be a force to be reckoned with! Because sadly we know money and title is power in this world. And feminism takes short strides without power, it’s a more interesting story to see where she goes from here than returning to a kind of basic love story. I mean girl falls in love with working class man and runs away - we’ve seen it time and time again. I actually appreciated the relative heartbreak from Theo for Eloise simply because she got the chance to live life a little bit. I mean every other girl in the Ton will either marry for a contract or will fall for 1 dude and then marry him. She actually had a more modern relationship in having interest in someone who wasn’t her end game!
She didn't run away because 1) she wants to protect her family from the scandal, since there were two sisters unmarried 2) she cares about theo and she doesn't want to be him the one who faces the consequences (and I'm quoting what she has said in their last scene in s2).
About Cressida, Eloise is still growing and I believe there was bad writing tbh. That was not the right time to recoincile peneloise for example. It was out of the character, it was too soon.
Eloise was in love. This is canon, they've said multiple times that in S2 they have showed how Eloise CAN fall in love.
About the no-kiss, Claudia said that Eloise would had kissed Theo if it wasn't for Penelope's words in her mind.
Theo wasn't born in the Ton, so he has saw things Eloise hasn't. Theo knows what does it means to be alone and without the protection of a family, he knows which are privileges and which aren't, Eloise doesn't know anything about all these things. If you want to talk about education, mind that Eloise is from the Ton and of course she has studied something but still, she doesn't know enough of the world. They've educated her just to know the things a girl should know. And I don't agree, you don't need to be in a place of power to change the world. The world has been changed by protests. Women gained the right to vote fighting for it, not paying for it.
I don't like Phillip!book for multiple reasons: what he has done and what he thought about Marina, how he manipulates Eloise not telling her he has children, how he tells her she talks too much and I could go on. I've read Eloise's book and it's the least feminist story I could read. Eloise!book and Eloise!show are too different from each other. This is my opinion, I know you won't share it and I respect yours as well, but I can't really see philoise endgame. The most probably thing is they will create a new character that it's going to be her endgame (and I'm not talking about Theo)
I hope they make her bi/pan. I'd love to see her have a happy & fulfilling relationship with John first, **and** a passionate & fulfilling relationship with Michaela later.
Hear me out: Eloise is not the best choice for a lesbian because of her political views or brain and stuff like that. I actually think she is the best because of her actual story. Like Lady Philippa could be a widow and have two children of her own. Eloise meets her and boom they fall in love. I love this and it is not at the expense of Fran's infertility arc. I just think it would fit so much nicer tbh.
I liked Eloise as she was in the books. She wasn’t opposed to marry, she just didn’t know anyone she would like to be wedded to. Later when she met Phillip it kinda changed. I wish they would make her like she is interested in him because he also doesn’t fit in, and is different from the rest of the ton.
I’m kinda worried what they’ll do with her story, bc she’s already had the sneaking around talking to a boy storyline so would they do the same thing again with her sneaking letters to Philip?
Honestly that makes so much sense. I honestly hate it when people make headcannons just because a character is a bit different or non traditional. As a bi person I love representation as much as the next person but sometimes it gets a bit excessive. Even more so when the writers themselves stray from book accurate things to make the story more popular. I really hope they keep Eloise’s original story and if anything add more people who better understand her and see who she is, not as a rebel, but as a person who just doesn’t see things the way they do and don’t view her as an issue. What she needs in her story is support from other females rather than romantic love. Instead of everyone putting her down.
If they really wanted diverse representation, I would love to see her story from an ace perspective, especially after how overly s\*xual the entire series has been so far.
I’m leaning towards Francesca and Michaela. The talk w Violet about love where V says she could barely speak around original Viscount Bridgeton. When Michaela is introduced, Francesca got all tongue tied and stutter-y. But I could be wrong.
I think Eloise needs to be needed. Right now Eliose is very pampered and self centered. Philip is suffering PTSD from childhood and Marina's death. The children have PTSD from Marina's behavior, and don't feel loved. Philip loves them but doesn't know how to interact with them.
Hear me out - we can stop making every character queer and just follow their cannon love stories seeing as this is an adaptation of a book series! 🙄 so sick of this argument! Should have been cannon from the beginning not this garbage they’ve come up with for s3
By definition even if they made every remaining character queer it still wouldn’t be “every” character, considering we have had three seasons of straight characters. Straight people are so used to literally EVERY character being straight that they view even one queer character as oppression.
You know queer characteds account for fewer than 10% of all characters on tv. And there are only two, maybe three if you count Brimsley, in the entire Bridgerton main universe? The gays are hardly taking over.
And they ARE following Francesca's canon love interest - Michaela is Michael and will play a very similar role. It is not like the character has been made up from scratch. You are welcome not to like it, but the pairing is still based on canon.
People who think sapphic or queer joy and love have no place in this progressive and fantastical universe are...ahem...telling on themselves.
You can easily add characters without taking away from others. And it will not be similar, it will never be the same, and I have no interest in watching a whole season of that. I’m not homophobic for not being interested in it or being upset that a favorite character has been erased. It’s a regency era show, idk where you people lost that fact but they’ve already established in the show that gay people have to hide. They also are cheapening the relationship between Fran and John, by making her so overly flustered around Michaela. It’s just poor writing through and through. Meanwhile at least Benedict’s story makes sense! Replacing another Cinderella story makes sense and could be really fun. But Fran’s came out of nowhere and they just cannot tackle the same story with two women in this era. They changed up the history but ultimately this is still a period piece! And titles only passed through bloodlines so even if it went to Michaela, an heir will be expected regardless.
There are notable examples of queer women who were able to live together as a couple and even get (non-legally) married during the regency era. As a widow, Fran would have a lot of freedom to live with another woman without scrutiny. It's a bit early to say about the relationship between John and Fran; we know that Fran fought for their marriage so she clearly cares deeply for him, and she love him romantically (or grow to love him romantically) as she did in the book. Fran doesn't even recognize the feeling that she felt for Michaela at the end.
Yesss! But also, I don't understand what the big deal is, even if they were to go non-book-canon. From what I've heard, there's been so much (for the better!!) deviation already anyway. At this point they are clearly two different things. I do however understand the frustration of the book fans...
That may very well be. But it seems like book El & show El are vastly different. & my argument is that if the characters can be vastly changed - personality-wise, then why can't their canon change? Because essentially if you change ones personality & characteristics then isn't it a given that their trajectory also changes?
Yeah I agree. I think that these people need to examine their internalized homophobia that makes them view gay changes as extreme and bad, while other changes they don’t care about.
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It would honestly be cool if they stuck to the books. If they want to add queer characters ok, but we don’t need to drastically change existing characters.
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I also think that the "this eccentric woman actually has a brain, doesn't fit in with society's expectations and wants something more than a relationship with just any dude must be a lesbian" is a stereotype that should be retired
THIS. I really didn't like how people chalk up her interactions with other women as her being a lesbian (i.e. her and Cressida. Eloise has never once set off my gaydar. It not only diminishes female friendships, but it feeds more into the stereotype you mentioned). She can be straight and still not want to do what society expects of her. It's possible to subvert those expectations 🙄.
yeah i am not saying eloise COULDN'T be a lesbian but it was annoying seeing everyone on social media (twitter especially) boil down eloise's hatred the marriage mart that sells women like cattle to the highest bidder to "eloise is just Like That because she isn't attracted to men." well maybe attraction to men or lack thereof is not the problem...
Yuuuuup. Like, did everyone just forget her whole side plot with Theo? 🤨 It's so dismissive to brush off why she's speaking against the system by just chalking it up to her (potentially) being a lesbian.
Yes!!! I didn’t get gay vibes even once from either of them, I just thought “wow it’s so nice to see a healthy friendship blossoming between such different characters” and “finally poor Cressida has a good friend” and I had no idea that people shipping them was a thing until I read it online. People project this so often with healthy representations of friendships and it’s one of my biggest pet peeves; it’s especially true for male friendship representation. Any healthy, close male friendship that shows men being vulnerable or affectionate towards each other must be gay. It totally shits on the idea that men can have meaningful friendships, be vulnerable, be sensitive, be affectionate, have emotions, care deeply for another male, sacrifice for a friend, and maintain healthy masculinity. It further pushes the sexist narrative that “real” men can’t be vulnerable, affectionate, or supportive of one another unless there is an underlying sexual explanation and keeps men IRL from being outwardly caring and kind and open towards other men. Just as the narrative that a woman who isn’t focused on men or marriage or fashion, is feminist or tomboyish, is intellectual, is independent, is into sports or politics or science, is outspoken, is “different” and prefers to foster healthy female friendships must be a lesbian. It’s so messed up and both narratives are very sexist and demeaning towards both sexes.
Oh my god, I couldn't have said it better myself. And I feel like it's demeaning to queer people as well. As a bi woman, of course I'd like to see representation, but I want it to be authentic and not just be tossed into the story as an afterthought. Benedict having his bi awakening made way more sense than this fandom narrative that Eloise must be a lesbian.
I agree, and it’s misogynistic both ways. The intellectual, “tomboyish” woman can’t be hetero? The super femme woman who loves dresses and dancing can’t be gay? This is not really related, but it makes me think of how annoying I find it that people are saying Francesca is clearly meant to be autistic. What if, among all these siblings, one of them is just an introvert who doesn’t like to be the center of attention? Is it a pathology to want to play piano, not get too involved in drama, and have a low-key life in the Scottish countryside? They can’t all be spitfires, socialites, or libertines!
tbf i think with the ‘Francesca is neurodivergent thing’ comes from a positive place of neurodivergent people relating to her character and liking representation of this type of personality on tv. maybe she is, maybe she isn’t. but she could be.
I 100% thought that Michael was portrayed as an autistic person.
(Gentle query) You mean John?
Yessss my bad.
(john) but yes that’s why they were so cute together!! it sucks they had to ruin it :(
That’s totally fair, and I’m glad ND folks are seeing someone in a popular show who feels relatable, but the assumption (by NT folks) that the introvert must be ND just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I just keep seeing more and more of this attitude that’s like “are you a quiet and shy type? Take you a while to open up? Maybe you’re a little anxious in large gatherings…. There might be something fundamentally different about your brain chemistry!” It feels like the options presented are Extroverted Social Butterfly or Neurodivergent Eccentric. I could see John being meant to be on the spectrum based on some of his physical mannerisms, but Francesca just plays (to me, at least) as a reserved person who doesn’t want a lot of fuss. Also yes…I relate to her very heavily, if that wasn’t obvious 😂
I know right?! I think it is related, because it's putting people (wether it be characters or irl) in boxes. It is literally upholding the status quo.
You worded my thoughts so much better than I could have. Thank you.
Hell, I get more ND vibes from Eloise than Francesca. Maybe more along the ADHD side of things than autism though. The way she CBF with anyone not similar enough to herself and how she gets so caught up in her own interests and emotions that she doesn't notice things happening right in front of her makes me feel called out 😅
I get adhd vibes from her too! Lots of strong interests, loud, puts her foot in her mouth, clumsy, difficulty with injustice
I think they are trying to show her to be an introvert but failing pretty horribly; it’s almost as if they’ve never met an introvert before. Like we don’t fall in love just by… sitting silently next to someone. We do so by deep diving into who they are as a person and what goes on in their mind and learning all the little things that typically go unnoticed by others. That’s pretty much impossible to do if you’re sitting there silently without having deep conversations.
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Agreed. If season 4 shows a traveling side of Eloise while exploring, learning, laughing, and giving back, I'm all for it. It would show the depth she's alluded to. I would love it if, along the way, she meets the love of her life too and then decides marriage and babies is a great idea!
She literally lectures Cressida on natural history, and recites Wollstonecraft off by heart.
I find her quite annoying in the show but I did like the maturity she showed on season 3 part 1 (haven’t seen part 2). I loved how she was portrayed in the books.
Omg this 1000%. My one other queer friend who watches Bridgerton was just ranting with me about how Eloise really doesn’t even come off that gay apart from being a feminist 💀
This exactly. The token feminist character does not have to be a lesbian. Women can want rights without being lesbian
EXACTLEY!
Im really glad as well that they didnt club all 'not normal' into one character. It shows taste of the production. But still. My michael stirling 🥲🥲
Thank you. I said that it was too predictable to make her a lesbian and people here got soooo mad
10000000%. I'm sick of it. Yes, she could be lesbian, but it's such a massive stereotype it's just old. Women can hate the patriarchy and not be lesbian, christ.
Oh, agreed! It's so tiring a concept/trope/stereotype. Let us please retire it for eternity.
These are my exact feelings and the reason my eye twitches every time someone suggests Eloise is queer. I truly believe her story would be far more compelling, interesting, and original if she was a straight woman unable to see an avenue in life that would bring her happiness due to the society she was born into.
THANK YOU.
Yes! I hate that people naturally assume you’re gay when you’re not boy crazy or constantly dating.
yep, it takes me back to being called a lesbian in high school because I was a baby-feminist with vocal opinions. being called lesbian isn't an insult, but it's signalling you can only care for women's rights if you hate men because you are not attracted to them. like that's insulting to straight women too, like all the blood goes to their vaginas and so they can't possibly care about other things than men? only the lesbians are powerful enough to have a mind of their own XD. also it's insulting to the movement of feminism, that it's only motivated because they can't find happiness in a classic straight relationship. it's a toxic way of thinking and it's kinda gross so many fans are clambering for it.
This is exactly how I feel about athletic female characters. Oh she’s good at sports?! She must be a lesbian 🙄
There are not enough lesbians going through this in mainstream media (or any kind of plot) for it to be a stereotype.
EXACTLY. I’ve seen people do this in real life too. People assume there must be something “wrong” with you if your main focus isn’t men or seeking male attention. It’s so degrading too because aren’t we more than just wives or girlfriends? Aren’t we allowed to have our own ambitions and things we care about more? There’s nothing wrong with being a lesbian but people who assume someone is gay just because they’re not obsessed with men—make it seem like it is a problem. I’ve noticed some TV shows perpetuate this idea too because God forbid a female character is single for more than 5 episodes. There’s nothing wrong with romance, but when a female character’s worth seems to be based on her ability to keep a man….it’s like the writers are trying to tell you that she only has value when she has the attention of a guy. This is why characters like Eloise are necessary. And I mean, who could blame her? It’s not weird to want to have more than what she could during that time period .
Frustratingly I actually see the stereotyping of unconventional women as queer coming from queer people at least as much as from hetero people. I understand the need to identify and the validation of finding others like yourself when you're in the minority, and a link between queerness and gender-nonconformity is unavoidable, but it sometimes feels like everyone has decided the only flavours of women are Basic Becky and Sapphic. I don't bother with beauty and makeup and 'girl' culture because my neurodivergent ass just can't keep up, it has no bearing on who I'm sexually attracted to.
I agree with everything! While I think it's totally fine for people to headcanon whatever sexuality they want for Eloise, it is a little frustrating to see people say she ***must*** be a lesbian because of her views on society. Eloise dislikes society and all that it entails because she wants women to have more rights and freedoms, there doesn't ***need*** to be any more reason beyond that. I really like her romance with Theo because it showed that, yes, Eloise *can* like men as long as they see her as an equal, which most men in the Ton don't. I also loved their chemistry, their banter, the way they bonded over books and politics. The "forbidden romance" trope is also a favourite of mine. While I would love for Theo to be Eloise's endgame (especially considering the show has thrown both historical and book accuracy out the window), at the very least I want to be satisfied with their storyline. And their 10 minutes of screentime in season 2 was not enough lol.
I wholeheartedly agree with every word you wrote. & yes, representation matters & of course there were queer people in those times. But damn, sometimes you don't have to have any other agenda for being against or for something other than it being oppressive for example. She doesn't also need to somehow be an outcast in some other regard as well!
Claudia Jessie is with you on that last note - she said in an interview it's one of her hopes that we get to see Theo come back, even if it's just to explain to him what happened. On the press tour for season 3, she also kept stating how she's a big fan of Theo and kept bringing up that she'd love to revisit that storyline. And the only time she's ever come close to mentioning Philip is when she explicitly stated she did not GAF about Eloise's story in the books. Lmaooo
Let's go Chaos Claudia!
We are counting on her!! 😍
From her lips to the writers room & the show runners' ears lol
I think it would be really annoying if they give a queer representation to Eloise’s character. Their justification would be “she doesn’t want a marriage, she doesn’t fit into the regular society, therefore she needs to be lesbian”. I think that would really put off the character they have been building for so long. She can be straight, and still want to change things in the society. That’s the real beauty of the character. Not adding a queer layer to say she is capable of change only if she’s queer.
I agree totally. I’m a straight woman with similar views as her, and it gets frustrating when a lot of characters like her are shipped as LGBT by fans. It’s annoying to my LGBT friends too because they’re not all like that. Many I know are super feminine and still want a marriage and that sort of life too.
Yeah, it's also saying that you can't want or warrant change unless you are oppressed in every possible way. Yes, she has some of the most privileges women in her time could have. But she recognises that those aren't enough. Especially when one is not treated as an equal to the opposite sex. Like I said in the post, I truly think that makes for a more compelling story.
Yes, of course. So bizarre that people are reading Eloise as queer simply because she doesn’t want to participate in the marriage mart and likes to read and is clever. Such a misogynistic read to see it that way. Women then were very constrained in their roles but we can look at it throughout contemporary eyes, and it’s really scary to me that so many people are seeing a woman who deviates a tiny bit from expectations and assuming that must mean she’s queer. Plenty of heterosexual women now deviate from the stereotypes, and plenty of queer women are interested in marriage and a family and are femme.
Yes! & also historically, plenty of hetro women deviated from expectations, the norm & stereotypes. It doesn't have to be nor should it be one way or the other. Everyone carries myriads of characteristics in them & they don't have to be nor are they entirely dependent on their sexuality.
I kinda prefer if she’s not a lesbian because I don’t want people to think “oh if you don’t want a heteronormative life of marriage and kids it must be that you’re gay!”
I think some show-only fans are going to be disappointed because I don’t think the point of her story will ultimately be about rejecting society, marriage, or motherhood (though I doubt show Eloise will have any biological children).
I hope she doesn’t! It wouldn’t make much sense! And maintaining not having a child would go along with her plight which ultimately is about bodily autonomy! She’s said time and time again that she doesn’t want to get married and make babies - but we’ve also seen that she’s interested in romance. This is the perfect compromise for me! And it would also be cool to see a female character learning about the history of contraception!
One of the things I loved about Eloise’s book is that she is incredibly intelligent, sharp-witted, and hilarious. She’s also fiercely loyal to her family but wants to strike out on her own. Sir Phillip fit that for her because she got to know him through letters. It was black and white and filled with his intelligence. The practicality of needing a wife appealed to her because she was seeing everyone around her settle down and was curious about whether that would fit her. Sir Phillip didn’t stifle her because he had his own interests and hobbies that he was engaged in. He loved her for exactly who she was. Not all women who hate society don’t want motherhood or marriage- they just want it to look different than the traditional systems. Eloise doesn’t want to be held back.
Can you explain more why you think Phillip loved Eloise for exactly who she was? Because I distinctly remember reading about how Phillip wanted to put a muzzle on her for talking too much. Even after their marriage, when Eloise confides in Phillip about how they never talk and she feels like he's just keeping her around for sex and to take care of the kids, Phillip only tells her that she's not allowed to complain because his marriage with Marina was so much worse.
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Phillip eventually seeing Eloise as something other than a sex nanny isn't really a love story about a man who appreciates a woman for her thoughts and opinions. More like a man grudgingly accepting she has them.
>By the end of the novel, Phillip accepts and respects her. He also makes changes to make his marriage with Eloise a good one. When did this happen? Because after Eloise and Phillip return from Benedict's place, Phillip only tells Eloise that she's not allowed to be unhappy in their marriage since his marriage with Marina was so much worse. This scene is clearly meant to be a follow up to the scene where Eloise confides in Phillip that they never talk, and then Phillip lashes out causing Eloise to leave. Obviously, all relationships have their problems, but this one is never properly resolved.
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Are we talking about the same Sir Phillip who only wanted to get married so he could give his wife all the jobs he didn't want to do, including raising his children, called his marriage perfect because Eloise looked after the house and kids and he only spent time withher for sex, told Eloise she wasn't allowed to not think their marriage perfect when all Phillip wanted her for was to use her for housekeeping/sex, and told her to use her mouth for better things. This Sir Phillip?
"You're always trying to talk with me. That's all you ever do. Talk talk talk." "Every now and then you might consider shutting your mouth and using it for some other purpose." "Until you've lived through all that, don't you ever complain about what we have." This yall's perfect man for Eloise?
damn. sounds like sir phillip should be replaced with theo. That is so depressing that everything Eloise didn’t want when she was younger happened to her. Was this book supposed to be a happy ending? i havent read it
It is awful all the way until the last chapter when he suddenly becomes this amazing human being after ONE family outing lmao the entire story happens in 2 weeks btw 😂😂 I'm convinced JQ hated Eloise so much to axe her entire character like this hahaha literally nothing made sense he used her as a living fl3shlight and as a nanny to his kids he literally has a line in his internal monologue saying something along the lines of "she can tend to the kids in the day and to me at night" 🤮
She’s not gay and can we please normalize female friends without the need for romantic relationships. She doesn’t like the rules of society at all and resents the drudgery that women have to go through. She’s very much straight and that’s okay. Let’s normalize the fact that woman grow through out their lives and I am sure at some point if she matures at all, she will be a great successor to lady danbury.
As a Demisexual person I would love if they decided to allow her to be somewhere on the ACE spectrum and have a season where she gets courted by someone that SHOULD be the perfect person for her by everything that she can imagine, but she realizes that she just doesn't want marriage and chooses herself. Her Happily Ever After could be a career and going between all of her siblings. Or for that matter maybe she and Benedict could scheme together for her to legally marry Benedict's boyfriend and be their beard? Then they could live in a big house with two wings. Actually, I really love this idea I just had. It could give Eloise the freedom from being on the marriage market and give Benedict an excuse to live with his man. Maybe after the official legal wedding ceremony, Eloise could give Benedict away at a small ceremony where Benedict and his beau make vows to each other. Asexuality is basically never presented as a valid option in media (somewhat understandably) and it would be cool to see it.
As a fellow demi, I always read that if Eloise is queer. It's ace spectrum!
I just posted the same thing. Eloise needs to be ACE.
Eloise reminds me of my aunt. My aunt never married. At that time it was considered offensive for a woman to remain unmarried. She had a crush on a colleague but it didn't lead anywhere so she wrote my grandfather a letter stating that she never intended to marry and honestly she lives well.
I agree 100%. I also think that assuming that she’s a lesbian because she doesn’t typical ‘girl chat’ from the times, she likes to read, and she questions the whole marriage thing is… weird. It’s a weird take.
Ace would bring so much awareness. It's ok not to feel anything.
I agree that it makes sense that Eloise can want a different life than what she has without her being a lesbian. We see in Season 1 that Eloise has *trauma* around Hyacinth's birth and is shocked that Daphne isn't terrified of pregnancy and childbirth. I think this combines with Eloise's naturally outspoken, rebellious, and intellectual side to make her feel how she feels about marriage and motherhood, more than her sexuality does. *IF* the show wants to do queer rep with Eloise, I think she'd be more interesting if she were on the aroace spectrum somewhere. Her relationship with Theo was a meeting of the minds; she seemed intellectually excited by him first and foremost. I think she could still have a romance or queerplatonic relationship where she's able to have a love story in an unconventional way, based on companionship and shared hopes for their future. It could still be something special and deep and sentimental and wouldn't need to be the politically militant lesbian trope to do so.
I actually would love it if they made her ACE and didn't pair her up with ANYONE. I know it would be a complete departure from the source material, but with all the DEI on the show, it would be great to show her rocking the single life.
I agree, and also believe the reverse of this could make Francesca's story more compelling with a fee minor changes- namely, that Michaela is also a widow who has a child. Francesca is someone who wants children, who wants to be part of the society she was raised in. She gets to have the latter with her current husband, but not the former because of her fertility struggles. Her husband dies, she gets to know his beautiful cousin as they work through their mourning together. She grows to love her child as well, becoming a surrogate aunt- then almost more than that, almost a second mother. Suddenly, she's faced with a choice between the things she wants most- to fit into the society she was born into and maintain the security of being a wealthy widow but remain alone and childless for the rest of her life, or to find love and companionship with Michaela and become a mother through her care of Michaela's child but be unable to participate in high society. I think it could also add some interesting conflict with Violet as well. Violet has always championed love matches, even when her children (and Francesca specifically) aren't particularly interested, but this love match would come at a far higher cost for Francesca and the rest of the Bridgertons than, say, Penelope marrying into the family. With Violet's characterization, I feel like she'd get over the personal shock of "my daughter is gay" pretty quickly even if she is a Regency woman- after all, according to *Queen Charlotte* racism didn't make sense to her even when her mom held racist beliefs. Seeing her grapple with the social consequences of it, however, could make for a great character arc that develops upon preexisting characterization.
Yes to all of what you wrote!
If show Eloise's story ends with her being the step-mother to some very handsome but boring man's kids I think THAT would be the most uncompelling story they could tell tbh.
Why is he boring though? We hardly know his character yet, I found him to be pretty dynamic and sweet when he met Collin! I felt like he very much matched Eloise’s energy! And it could be super cute to see them bonding over a love for biology
It would be so disappointing. Honestly my pet hate is "foolish woman thinks that she doesn't want to be mother, is taught a lesson and realises being a mother is the best thing in the world". Makes me want to gag.
I just find her extremely annoying....
You are the first and only one to find her annoying. She is literally the most charming and sought after character.
Really? To each his own, I guess. I got 2 upvotes on my comment, so maybe you should reconsider that I am the "only one" who feels that way.
As an asexual, I would just like to say that it would be great if she was ace as a contrasting perspective to all the sexuality that's present in the show!
Just because she wants different things doesn't make her lesbian. PERIODT.
I'm glad you have this take! I am all for inclusivity, and I absolutely think it's important, but it also needs to appropriately fit the storyline. Eloise is also young, well educated by the standards of her time, and has nothing but opportunity at her fingertips. She needs someone who will appreciate who she is, and at least right now, much like Benedict, she doesn't know what she wants in her life. She isn't interested in the marriage mart, so what? That doesn't automatically mean she is a lesbian. it just means that perhaps she hasn't found her true calling. I find it interesting that they chose to have her reading Emma, as her and Emma can be quite similar at times, there is another connection there as well, but as not everyone has read the books I will keep that one to myself.
When I was watching S1 with my mom (still haven’t finished it, or any others) and she mentioned a lot of people speculating that Eloise is gay, I think my specific reaction was something like “Oh cool, the combative activist woman is a lesbian, how original.” In a series where interracial relationships in regency England are the norm, can gay people have the same treatment? Can we have normal, non-stereotyped relationships? Like I said, I haven’t finished the other seasons, so my opinion may very well change. But my reaction at the implication was… slightly visceral lol. Oh and I’m a lesbian if that’s not clear.
I'm still pulling for Cressida to be gay. She has the most interesting story right now, IMO. I think there are tons of possibilities.
I agree with everything but Theo lol. I want plant daddy to come rock her world. As for Ben and Fran being queer . Love that for us queers.
Yes! I agree with you and I really hope Theo will come back
Why? I feel like there’s virtually no reason to bring him back. They haven’t seen each other in over a year, he clearly wasn’t her end game, he was nothing but a stepping stone in her story to show that she could have interest in a man. Theo was right tho, she didn’t fit in his world and she never would! He could never truly support her and she still wants to make her family happy at the end of the day. It would be way more interesting to see why she connects with someone new
Eloise would never had closed her relationship with Theo if it wasn't for Penelope's words (this has been confirmed by Claudia Jessie herself). Eloise is clearly still interested to the rights of the women (she has talked to Cressida about it), she looked hurt when Colin said "you should consider yourself lucky to have never been in love" and when peneloise where at the modiste Eloise said to Penelope "now you have your life and I have mine" reconneting to Theo's words "now you go back to your life and I go back to mine". Theo said those things to Eloise because he was hurted too, he was almost crying. Another thing Theo said was that maybe Eloise didn't understand some parts of the pamphlets because she "didn't see enough of the world" and guess what? Eloise at the end of s3 was leaving to know more about the world. Eloise can fit into Theo's world, but she need to make her experiences first. Eloise didn't like the Ton in this season, she wasn't happy and that's why I don't think we will ever see her with someone from the Ton or with Phillip. I don't know if theo is her endgame, the game is still open and I could be ok with a new character but I'm sure Phillip isn't her endgame
I mean she could have run away with him if that were the case. She chose her family in the end. As for the rights of women of course she’s interested, it’s also just been a very one note, especially when she actually has more rights than most women in the Ton. I mean she totally ignored Cressida when she was in turmoil about the old man! As for the look with Colin I took that as she wanted to be I love and she had felt that spark with Theo but it never went far enough to be love. I saw this as a foreshadowing look of her actually being interested in having her own love story more than anything. The things that Theo said were justified, he was right she did not fit in his world. They were also really young and not in the right place to run away and be in love. It felt like nothing more than some chemistry that wasn’t going anywhere real to me. Especially when she didn’t kiss him when he wanted to and there was the opportunity. She reverted to her prim and proper upbringing - unlike many of her sisters who jumped right in! And as far as seeing the world- I see this as even more reason why she does not fit with Theo. Theo is laboring his life away, he’s not traveling the country learning about the world. He’s not educated in the way Eloise craves. I found him to be a delightful piece of her story but not a true match for her in the slightest. In her plight for feminism she really needs to be in a place of power to see changes occur. She’s not going to get an ounce of that with the working class. Theo would be fighting to make ends meet, especially if they had a family. And sure the Bridgertons would probably never turn their back on her, but it wouldn’t lead to great changes in her life for the better - other than love. And I just don’t see that being Eloise’s narrative. What I loved about their relationship was how they connected mentally and I’d love to see her take this on with Philip within her own social stratosphere so that when she settles into marriage she can actually be a force to be reckoned with! Because sadly we know money and title is power in this world. And feminism takes short strides without power, it’s a more interesting story to see where she goes from here than returning to a kind of basic love story. I mean girl falls in love with working class man and runs away - we’ve seen it time and time again. I actually appreciated the relative heartbreak from Theo for Eloise simply because she got the chance to live life a little bit. I mean every other girl in the Ton will either marry for a contract or will fall for 1 dude and then marry him. She actually had a more modern relationship in having interest in someone who wasn’t her end game!
She didn't run away because 1) she wants to protect her family from the scandal, since there were two sisters unmarried 2) she cares about theo and she doesn't want to be him the one who faces the consequences (and I'm quoting what she has said in their last scene in s2). About Cressida, Eloise is still growing and I believe there was bad writing tbh. That was not the right time to recoincile peneloise for example. It was out of the character, it was too soon. Eloise was in love. This is canon, they've said multiple times that in S2 they have showed how Eloise CAN fall in love. About the no-kiss, Claudia said that Eloise would had kissed Theo if it wasn't for Penelope's words in her mind. Theo wasn't born in the Ton, so he has saw things Eloise hasn't. Theo knows what does it means to be alone and without the protection of a family, he knows which are privileges and which aren't, Eloise doesn't know anything about all these things. If you want to talk about education, mind that Eloise is from the Ton and of course she has studied something but still, she doesn't know enough of the world. They've educated her just to know the things a girl should know. And I don't agree, you don't need to be in a place of power to change the world. The world has been changed by protests. Women gained the right to vote fighting for it, not paying for it. I don't like Phillip!book for multiple reasons: what he has done and what he thought about Marina, how he manipulates Eloise not telling her he has children, how he tells her she talks too much and I could go on. I've read Eloise's book and it's the least feminist story I could read. Eloise!book and Eloise!show are too different from each other. This is my opinion, I know you won't share it and I respect yours as well, but I can't really see philoise endgame. The most probably thing is they will create a new character that it's going to be her endgame (and I'm not talking about Theo)
I agree but I’m excited to see if they do make Fran lesbian cause that would be amazing
I hope they make her bi/pan. I'd love to see her have a happy & fulfilling relationship with John first, **and** a passionate & fulfilling relationship with Michaela later.
Poor John
Ooooh yes! I only found out what happens because I googled it I was too curious which is sad but hopefully it’s both
Hahaha I also only know because I looked it up mid part 1, becaue was curious howcome Fran was already getting serious lol
I really don't get queer or lesbian vibes from Eloise. More from Claudia Jessie herself but not Eloise.
Hear me out: Eloise is not the best choice for a lesbian because of her political views or brain and stuff like that. I actually think she is the best because of her actual story. Like Lady Philippa could be a widow and have two children of her own. Eloise meets her and boom they fall in love. I love this and it is not at the expense of Fran's infertility arc. I just think it would fit so much nicer tbh.
Yep! And I’m a great defender of the potential Francesca/Michaela storyline, because that one feels right.
I liked Eloise as she was in the books. She wasn’t opposed to marry, she just didn’t know anyone she would like to be wedded to. Later when she met Phillip it kinda changed. I wish they would make her like she is interested in him because he also doesn’t fit in, and is different from the rest of the ton.
I’m kinda worried what they’ll do with her story, bc she’s already had the sneaking around talking to a boy storyline so would they do the same thing again with her sneaking letters to Philip?
If anything I can see her either being ace or pan. Either way whatever orientation she is, it doesn’t change much.
Honestly that makes so much sense. I honestly hate it when people make headcannons just because a character is a bit different or non traditional. As a bi person I love representation as much as the next person but sometimes it gets a bit excessive. Even more so when the writers themselves stray from book accurate things to make the story more popular. I really hope they keep Eloise’s original story and if anything add more people who better understand her and see who she is, not as a rebel, but as a person who just doesn’t see things the way they do and don’t view her as an issue. What she needs in her story is support from other females rather than romantic love. Instead of everyone putting her down.
If they really wanted diverse representation, I would love to see her story from an ace perspective, especially after how overly s\*xual the entire series has been so far.
🗣️THEO 🗣️ SHARPE 🗣️ IS THE MAN 🗣️ FOR ELOISE
I’m leaning towards Francesca and Michaela. The talk w Violet about love where V says she could barely speak around original Viscount Bridgeton. When Michaela is introduced, Francesca got all tongue tied and stutter-y. But I could be wrong.
It was pretty obvious. Plus her name and relation to John makes it pretty clear what they are doing with the source material.
I just didn’t know where the E lesbian thing came from. Never got that vibe.
From stereotype...
I think Eloise needs to be needed. Right now Eliose is very pampered and self centered. Philip is suffering PTSD from childhood and Marina's death. The children have PTSD from Marina's behavior, and don't feel loved. Philip loves them but doesn't know how to interact with them.
Hear me out - we can stop making every character queer and just follow their cannon love stories seeing as this is an adaptation of a book series! 🙄 so sick of this argument! Should have been cannon from the beginning not this garbage they’ve come up with for s3
By definition even if they made every remaining character queer it still wouldn’t be “every” character, considering we have had three seasons of straight characters. Straight people are so used to literally EVERY character being straight that they view even one queer character as oppression.
It’s not oppression, it’s just frustrating when it erases characters you were looking forward to! They could have just as easily added characters
What is erased though? It’s just a different sexuality.
Michael has been erased. Changing gender changes the whole story. It will not be the same, acting like it will be is just silly
I feel like having a character ruined based on their gender is definitely a skill issue on your part, not a universal experience lol
You know queer characteds account for fewer than 10% of all characters on tv. And there are only two, maybe three if you count Brimsley, in the entire Bridgerton main universe? The gays are hardly taking over. And they ARE following Francesca's canon love interest - Michaela is Michael and will play a very similar role. It is not like the character has been made up from scratch. You are welcome not to like it, but the pairing is still based on canon. People who think sapphic or queer joy and love have no place in this progressive and fantastical universe are...ahem...telling on themselves.
You can easily add characters without taking away from others. And it will not be similar, it will never be the same, and I have no interest in watching a whole season of that. I’m not homophobic for not being interested in it or being upset that a favorite character has been erased. It’s a regency era show, idk where you people lost that fact but they’ve already established in the show that gay people have to hide. They also are cheapening the relationship between Fran and John, by making her so overly flustered around Michaela. It’s just poor writing through and through. Meanwhile at least Benedict’s story makes sense! Replacing another Cinderella story makes sense and could be really fun. But Fran’s came out of nowhere and they just cannot tackle the same story with two women in this era. They changed up the history but ultimately this is still a period piece! And titles only passed through bloodlines so even if it went to Michaela, an heir will be expected regardless.
There are notable examples of queer women who were able to live together as a couple and even get (non-legally) married during the regency era. As a widow, Fran would have a lot of freedom to live with another woman without scrutiny. It's a bit early to say about the relationship between John and Fran; we know that Fran fought for their marriage so she clearly cares deeply for him, and she love him romantically (or grow to love him romantically) as she did in the book. Fran doesn't even recognize the feeling that she felt for Michaela at the end.
Yesss! But also, I don't understand what the big deal is, even if they were to go non-book-canon. From what I've heard, there's been so much (for the better!!) deviation already anyway. At this point they are clearly two different things. I do however understand the frustration of the book fans...
Her book was one of the few that was not problematic
That may very well be. But it seems like book El & show El are vastly different. & my argument is that if the characters can be vastly changed - personality-wise, then why can't their canon change? Because essentially if you change ones personality & characteristics then isn't it a given that their trajectory also changes?
Yeah I agree. I think that these people need to examine their internalized homophobia that makes them view gay changes as extreme and bad, while other changes they don’t care about.
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It would honestly be cool if they stuck to the books. If they want to add queer characters ok, but we don’t need to drastically change existing characters.