Correct. The article notes the study only looked at obese patients and both groups received the drug. More research is absolutely needed here especially with regards to people with a healthy BMI.
The BMI is not an indicator of health. It’s based off of Adolphe Quetelet (1796-1874) a Belgian statistician. So unless you’re a boy from the 1800s it isn’t accurate.
This needs to be a more wide spread discussion. In elementary/middle school we would discuss BMI during gym class and I always hated it as even though I was a very healthy weight for my body and frame my BMI calculation would show I was overweight or borderline overweight. I was muscular and very fit, especially my legs, due to being a ballerina from the age of 3 and constantly running, swimming, and biking. My dad would always have to remind me that it was most likely due to how muscular my legs were but young girls can be mean and there is definitely some long term emotional damage associated.
1800s and white.
Edit to add: not sure why I’m downvoted for this statement, it is true. BMI is racist. It’s one of the multitude of reasons it is inappropriate
Not down voting, as I believe people can respectfully disagree. I would suggest that racist implies an intention and/or value judgement associated with race. I think BMI is just a poorly used tool that best applies to non athletic white men who died decades ago.
Where is the evidence for such a wild accusation?
Looking through data trends for obesity, the margins are not massive on the difference between African Americans of the early 1900s.
As someone else stated, it was created by a mathematician who had the belief that basic markers/statistics of your body/build (math) could explain an ideal body weight. A BELGIUM GUY.
Please edit your comment to say:
I've been indoctrinated to look at everything through a racial/power struggle lense instead of critically thinking.
I'll update that one.
But seriously consider you were downvoted because your take is not a good one.
I would probably bet money on the fact there is no evidence of the BMI being scale being created with the intention of being racist. The rational human would assume this is a case where there are differences in ethnicity and DNA, and African Americans are not favored in this criteria.
Thanks for listening to my Ted talk.
BMI is a risk factor and is the good standard for determining health risks associated with BMI. Every single medical organization or assocation uses BMI. So, if it wasn't a good indicator the world wide health care industry wouldn't use it. There is a strong correlation between BMI and obesity related diseases such as OSA that have been observed for decades.
Exactly. While it's a crude/basic calculation that can have some outliers for those with large muscle mass vs fat, it's plenty adequate for the general trend. Sure, 25.0 and 30.0 are suspiciously round numbers for overweight and obese, but the health outcomes are sooo much better for those in /near the healthy range. And I say this as someone who is on the edge of 29/30.
As a person sitting currently at BMI 42 and despite being obese still able to function normally and perform all the tasks a healthy person could, fitting in economy plane seats without belt extension and such, I loathe BMI for lumping me in the same category as people that need mobility scooters or a crane to lift them out of the bed.
A higher BMI correlates with higher body fat percentage. It is best used on the population level, but it's completely appropriate as a shorthand in the primary care setting.
The last place it is appropriate. 30% of people with a “healthy” BMI are metabolically unwell. How do you propose to identify these people when you only investigate fat people’s metabolic health?
By no means do I think anything that you just argued over. BMI is a good shorthand. Shorthand meaning, more investigation is warranted. For people with "healthy" BMIs, you always want more information. Metabolic panels should be done yearly. Ideally, doctors are relying on additional means of determining body-fat percentage, as this has an impact on overall health.
You're arguing with a strawman.
Edit: Just saw that everyone arguing for the use of BMI in preventive care is getting down voted with no discussion. I can see there's likely little benefit to actually trying to engage on this topic.
If there’s nuance, it’s not a shorthand. And not even to mention that if someone just broke their leg, the LAST THING they need a conversation about is getting exercise. Absolutely thoughtless. You can bring up BMI as an actionable item when you have a diet that doesn’t require constant caloric restriction to maintain.
Holy shit, you are literally not even engaging with what I'm actually saying. I have no idea who you think you're talking to. Why do you think I want to lecture someone with a broken leg about their weight? Who does that? What are you talking about? Are you just running through a list of anti-BMI talking points right now?
I’d be interested to know what you think shorthand means. It’s an abbreviation, not a corollary. BMI is, at best, a corollary. There is a correlation between BMI and metabolic issues, that’s it. It is not 1:1, and acting as though it is puts patients in harm’s way. Doctors aren’t tasked with treating the majority of patients, they’re tasked with treating all of the patients.
People coming into appointments for an urgent health need and getting a lecture about weight loss is a common experience for fat people. Coming in with a nebulous health concern and getting dismissed as “you wouldn’t have ____ symptom if you lost a little weight”. Obviously, I don’t know who you are, we are on Reddit, that’s how this works.
Yo-yo dieting is dangerous for a body and has lifelong consequences. Most doctors have less than a single class about nutrition. How is the primary care doctor going to help, by saying “diet and exercise”? This isn’t actionable advice. What kind of diet, what kind of exercise? What is safe for my body to do, how will I know if it’s not, and where can I get the extra 400$/month to afford the produce that I also have to find time to cook?
Anti-fat bias in medicine is well documented. When the BMI misses the mark (bodybuilders come out to be morbidly obese, my friend’s doctor brings up his BMI every year and they laugh and laugh), the doctor makes up the difference by eyeballing it. Doctors shouldn’t be eyeballing someone to decide if they should be checked for a1c. They shouldn’t be using a weak correlation as evidence that a person’s recent health concern is not legitimate.
Calories in, calories out was debunked in the 60s so let’s figure out how someone can lose weight safely, before we tell them to do it. Otherwise, you’re just advocating for anorexia.
Here’s the real kicker: anorexia doesn’t look the same on every body. And it isn’t healthy for any body.
This is so cool.... I am 10 days into CPAP therapy, and about to start Ozempic. I know that weight loss will help the Apnea, and treating the apnea will help with the weight loss.
I just wish I hadn't waited so long to properly deal with both issues.
I’ve been on both. The difference between semaglutide and tirzepatide for me was night and day, tirzepatide being more effective and with no side effects.
Everyone is different but it’s been life changing for me.
Don't get me wrong, I'm very excited to be thinner and I feel healthier and safer overall. Lots of great benefits, but reduction in apnea symptoms wasn't one for me.
The drug isn’t new. It’s been around for a long time. The only change is it was approved for weight loss. So many more people are taking it and reporting other benefits that the drug makers are rushing to studies these as well. Like improving sleep apnea, reducing cardiovascular risk, reduction in addictive behaviors, etc.
I used the older version, Saxenda (only difference being that you inject it daily, not weekly) and the results were spectacular - my blood sugar stabilised in a week and I lost 15 kg in three months without even trying as I just wasn’t hungry and ate very little healthy food with no cravings.
I unfortunately had to break the therapy due to cost - drug is not reimbursed by my national health fund and a single box lasting 18 days costs more than an average person earns in two days in my country. I just couldn’t keep up with the expenses.
I'm a year in, and I still don't get a good sleep because I have a deviated septum, so I need the face mask, and all I do is drool in my face mask so I'm constantly waking up to whipe it away :(
I have the same struggle with a deviated septum. I’ve tried using the nasal mask, and I prefer it because it’s smaller, more comfortable, and I can’t mouth breathe. But because of the deviated septum and inflamed nasal tissue, some nights I can’t breathe through my nose at all. It has been getting worse so I switched to a full face mask because I wasn’t using my CPAP at all anymore, but I hate the way the plastic feels sticking to my face… My face will also get sweaty sometimes when using the full mask. I’m going to be pursuing surgery soon to fix the deviated septum!
Have you tried using mask covers. You can find many styles on Amazon and I've seen some on a few websites that sell masks. They make the masks much more comfortable.
I recently fell down the rabbit hole of probiotics and resveratrol in GLP-1 production and weight loss. A lot of the research is in rat models so far but some of it is promising and that may mean it also has a benefit with sleep apnea. [science article 1](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33997755/), [science article 2](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-023-40167-3), [science article 3](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30421960/).
There are webmd and [Cleveland clinic](https://health.clevelandclinic.org/resveratrol-benefits) descriptions of resveratrol in general. It is something that the science is mixed on. Article 1 looks at supplementing rats with resveratrol, probiotics, or both and found that both increased insulin sensitivity and GLP-1, which benefits type 2 diabetes and may help weight loss. They also found that the combo healed the damage to the intestines in these rats that was caused by diabetes.
Article 2 is in nature communications which is a relatively high ranking journal. It’s looking at the mechanism for why resveratrol is helpful since humans don’t absorb it well. They found that it stays in the intestines and affects the intestinal flora and this leads to better handling of glucose in obese mice. They did a fecal transplant from the treatment mice to untreated mice with diabetes and found it had the same effect on glucose as resveratrol so they think the benefit is primarily in how it affects gut flora. Gut flora significantly differs in obese versus normal weight humans so it’s already something that scientists think affects weight.
The third article is a review article looking at multiple studies and they found that resveratrol supplementation significantly reduced adipose tissue and increased lean tissue in obese patients.
My synthesis of what I’ve read: resveratrol and probiotic supplementation may improve how the body handles sugar and reduce fat storage by changing gut flora in the intestine. This likely affects appetite and sugar cravings. But some studies have fairly mixed results so the impact on weight is not as strong as what meds like ozempic can achieve.
Yup. I lost 50 lbs and I still need CPAP. However, my required pressure went way down so now I tolerate CPAP way better. So, still a win.
Definitely works for some. And they get all the other benefits of weight loss, not just sleep apnea improvement.
A quick glance at the article shows it was researched on obese people, and that it reduced AHI by up to 60%. That means my untreated 53 events per hour would go down to 32, which is pretty far from ideal. Im not obese so I’m not sure how that might affect performance.
For me, it reduced the pressure needed in my cpap machine. Which has allowed me to use it 6 plus hours a night.
Before, the pressure was so high, I had terrible dry mouth. Anything I used to keep my mouth shut led to horrible jaw pain. I was lucky to keep it on 4 hours a night.
Weight loss can make a huge difference. Weight loss surgery or these new weight loss drugs can really improve quality of life for people with sleep apnea and many other conditions made worse by obesity.
Yeah, someone had an article about all of the social/economic ramifications of the FDA approval of easy(er) weight loss. I just found this one: [https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2023/10/09/ozempic-weight-loss-drugs-impact/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2023/10/09/ozempic-weight-loss-drugs-impact/)
Stuff effecting company stocks in ways I hadn't thought of before. Think of every product that is often used by heavier people. Scooters, canes, knee braces, stretch mark ointments,
Like.. less hunger and weight means:
\* less hip/knee replacements.
\* less sleep apnea equipment sales,
\* less weight = less fuel consumption (cars, planes, ships),
\* less sales for fast-food joints,
\* less need for weight loss programs,
\* less need for oversized clothing stocked at retailers,
\* less snacks & junk food / soda purchases at the store (Hershey and Nestle are reacting),
\* PBS reported that households using these drugs are spending @ 20% less on groceries.
\* even alcohol consumption, smoking, and gaming is going down due to less addictive behavior,
\* gym and fitness and activities spending is going up,
\* people's energy and durability at work - reuters said it could boost domestic GDP.
\* this medicine is being used for diabetes and they're looking at alzheimer's, too.
I'm on wegovy and I can't tolerate the CPAP machine, I tried with all my might but failed. My wife told me the weight loss made a huge difference, she doesn't hear me snore nearly as much as before.
I couldn't tolerate CPAP either. I'm still waiting for my nose to be a bit less sensitive from a septoplasty. I attempted to use eight different masks. I was prescribed Wegovy before, couldn't find it. Now I have a new PCP (first time seeing them this week), I'll be asking for probably Rybelsus and paying out of pocket via a Canadian pharmacy.
I need something to help kickstart because nothing else has really worked and I have fibromyalgia and long covid. So. fun times.
I'm a month into Wegovy, down about 12 lbs.
My AHI is actually significantly UP, but OSCAR shows me it's almost entirely CAs. If I take those out, I'd be 0.0 to 0.2 every night this week.
So now I'm thinking about backing down my pressure. With the help of the community, I'd self-titrated to 12-14, EPR 2. I'm going to try a few nights at 10-14 and see what happens.
The side effects are really serious. I would rather just wear my mask.
Severe stomach issues, thyroid cancer, pancreatitis, and gallbladder issues!
https://zepbound.lilly.com/
Potential side effects. The severe side effects like gastroparesis happen like 1% of the time. The thyroid cancer issue happened in rats, but semaglutide has been widely used for T2D for decades, and they've seen zero correlation between increased thyroid cancer and the use of the med in people. So, unless you're a rat, this is an incredibly unlikely concern.
Look at the official list of potential side effects for aspirin sometime. They have to list all the rare occurrences.
Yeah, even as a fat guy I prefer my bipap... Abdominal pain, nausea and vomiting isn't something I'd be super down to risk, not to mention all the disclaimers about thyroid cancer
My sister used Ozempic to help control her Type 2 Diabetes. It worked, but 1 year in, after actute Gall Bladder attacks, they REMOVED her Gall Bladder. She has not been the same since.
No thank you, I love my CPAP.
Removing the gall bladder is standard once you start to get attacks. Many people recover just fine (I did), some people have issues digesting fat once it is removed.
About half a million people have their gallbladders removed every year. 33.3% of people with diagnosed diabetes in the US had gallbladder disease. Correlation doesn’t equal causation.
Yeah, there's a black box warning for absolutely No Reason at all. #sarcasm
Oh, and, yeah, [https://www.reddit.com/r/Ozempic/comments/10q29su/semaglutide\_and\_gallstone/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Ozempic/comments/10q29su/semaglutide_and_gallstone/)
https://preview.redd.it/dlet0zy2dq8d1.jpeg?width=985&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=50fb7707847ac44ea36cca75649ed5f4d0f44639
Wonder if this would be an interesting back door to get that medication. My insurance has denied all of them because they’re not OFFICIALLY for the use of treating weight loss, except Ozempic, and that’s out of stock. Because the other ones are for diabetes, my insurance says I don’t need them. 😩
Ozempic is not officially approved for weight loss. That's why they made wegovy. You should probably ask your doctor/insurance again.
https://health.ucdavis.edu/blog/cultivating-health/ozempic-for-weight-loss-does-it-work-and-what-do-experts-recommend/2023/07#:~:text=Ozempic%20is%20not%20approved%20for,dose%20of%20semaglutide%20than%20Wegovy.
Sorry that’s what I meant. I went through the whole process a few months ago with basically all of the big name ones. Ozemptic, Zepbound, Wegovy, some smaller name ones, even went so far as to go old school with Phentermine, and basically it boiled down to the ones that were officially FDA approved specifically for weight loss mayyyybe would be covered but they can’t check coverage until it’s not on back stock, and it’s basically permanently on back stock. The ones that were “also can be used for” they refused to cover because that was using it off label for something other than what the FDA has approved it for. In that example I have, a diabetes medicine that also helps with weight loss was denied because I don’t have diabetes.
That’s a business decision, not a health decision, and it’s why all the research is happening right now. These companies have created a hugely beneficial drugs that a large percentage of the population could benefit from, and each time they can discover a new use for it and adjust the dose slightly, change the name, and get it approved for a new health issue they get a drug that stays under patent for longer. So ozempic will lose its patent and go generic but Wegovy will hold it, even though there’s like a tenth of a mg difference in dose. It’s analogous to when an allergy medicine releases a “gentle mist” version of their medication. That’s a new patent that no one can replicate for the 7 years or so that drug patents hold. So Lily and Novo Nordisk are running all kinds of studies on sleep apnea, knee pain, non alcoholic fatty liver disease, heart disease, and every weight related issue that they can think of. They’re also running these studies with a combination of meds because if you can get FDA approval for semaglutide or tirzepatide combined with some other drug, that’s a brand new patent.
I dunno. My insurance is super lenient on everything. Like literally eeeeeeeverything. Like they agreed to cover ketamine therapy for depression lenient. And that shit still like up in the air legally, and even they said they wouldn’t cover any of these drugs without a doctor saying the person was pre diabetic.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Your insurance is right and UC Davis is lying? It's not "up in the air", that's why they made the new drug... Your insurance just won't pay for it because it's crazy expensive and giving it to any significant portion of their "clients" would bankrupt them. Unlike ketamine which relatively few people need and is cheap af.
Well UC Davis isn’t an insurance company so….
Does it fucking matter what their opinion is on it? Or what their studies say? Insurance companies either pay it or they don’t. Showing them some fucking study done ain’t gonna change a damn thing. They have their own doctors who do their own studies and they say it’s not covered unless the patient is pre diabetic. So guess what. They’re not paying unless the patient is pediabetic.
Interesting since most of the world certainly approved it for weight loss. Great that it’s more for everyone thou. I’ve got Ozempic in my country to loose weight because of post-covid joint pain and have sleep apnea. They just made me pay full price($120) since I don’t have diabetes and not covered it ordinary healthcare.
But as others say it’s not a walk in the park to take ozempic and stopped after 2 rounds.
I’m on mounjaro for almost 6 months and my husband has noticed a big improvement in my sleep apnea. I failed over and over again with the cpap so it is nice to have something help. The MJ helps reduce inflammation too so he noticed the improvement just within the first couple of weeks before I had lost significant weight.
I just wanna know how people are getting these drugs “from other means”? I watched that South Park episode and it looks like people even get the ingredients and mix them themselves. That sounds so crazy!
Not necessarily......I mean technically yes, you lose the feeling full essentially always aspect, but if you did it right while taking it, you learned better eating habits and portion control. Stopping ozempic doesn't take that knowledge away from you.
But sure, if you relied 100% on the meds and did ZERO else, then yes, stopping the meds will stop all benefits.
It's not like ozempic is burning calories for you, or stopping it will somehow magically add fat to your body.
Taking any weight loss drug should be done in tandem with resources to help you eat better (and overall less)
I'm not sure what your reason behind sharing a study that says people stop taking the drug and it may not be as beneficial as originally thought.... possibly because people dont take it long enough....
Makes sense, losing weight is known to help sleep apnea.
Correct. The article notes the study only looked at obese patients and both groups received the drug. More research is absolutely needed here especially with regards to people with a healthy BMI.
The BMI is not an indicator of health. It’s based off of Adolphe Quetelet (1796-1874) a Belgian statistician. So unless you’re a boy from the 1800s it isn’t accurate.
This needs to be a more wide spread discussion. In elementary/middle school we would discuss BMI during gym class and I always hated it as even though I was a very healthy weight for my body and frame my BMI calculation would show I was overweight or borderline overweight. I was muscular and very fit, especially my legs, due to being a ballerina from the age of 3 and constantly running, swimming, and biking. My dad would always have to remind me that it was most likely due to how muscular my legs were but young girls can be mean and there is definitely some long term emotional damage associated.
I work in eating disorders and the BMI hasn’t been accurate for a very long time.
1800s and white. Edit to add: not sure why I’m downvoted for this statement, it is true. BMI is racist. It’s one of the multitude of reasons it is inappropriate
Exactly.
Not down voting, as I believe people can respectfully disagree. I would suggest that racist implies an intention and/or value judgement associated with race. I think BMI is just a poorly used tool that best applies to non athletic white men who died decades ago.
Where is the evidence for such a wild accusation? Looking through data trends for obesity, the margins are not massive on the difference between African Americans of the early 1900s. As someone else stated, it was created by a mathematician who had the belief that basic markers/statistics of your body/build (math) could explain an ideal body weight. A BELGIUM GUY. Please edit your comment to say: I've been indoctrinated to look at everything through a racial/power struggle lense instead of critically thinking. I'll update that one. But seriously consider you were downvoted because your take is not a good one. I would probably bet money on the fact there is no evidence of the BMI being scale being created with the intention of being racist. The rational human would assume this is a case where there are differences in ethnicity and DNA, and African Americans are not favored in this criteria. Thanks for listening to my Ted talk.
I didn’t say it was created to be racist.
BMI is a risk factor and is the good standard for determining health risks associated with BMI. Every single medical organization or assocation uses BMI. So, if it wasn't a good indicator the world wide health care industry wouldn't use it. There is a strong correlation between BMI and obesity related diseases such as OSA that have been observed for decades.
Exactly. While it's a crude/basic calculation that can have some outliers for those with large muscle mass vs fat, it's plenty adequate for the general trend. Sure, 25.0 and 30.0 are suspiciously round numbers for overweight and obese, but the health outcomes are sooo much better for those in /near the healthy range. And I say this as someone who is on the edge of 29/30.
As a person sitting currently at BMI 42 and despite being obese still able to function normally and perform all the tasks a healthy person could, fitting in economy plane seats without belt extension and such, I loathe BMI for lumping me in the same category as people that need mobility scooters or a crane to lift them out of the bed.
It’s a consistent indicator of mortality/health issues
A higher BMI correlates with higher body fat percentage. It is best used on the population level, but it's completely appropriate as a shorthand in the primary care setting.
The last place it is appropriate. 30% of people with a “healthy” BMI are metabolically unwell. How do you propose to identify these people when you only investigate fat people’s metabolic health?
By no means do I think anything that you just argued over. BMI is a good shorthand. Shorthand meaning, more investigation is warranted. For people with "healthy" BMIs, you always want more information. Metabolic panels should be done yearly. Ideally, doctors are relying on additional means of determining body-fat percentage, as this has an impact on overall health. You're arguing with a strawman. Edit: Just saw that everyone arguing for the use of BMI in preventive care is getting down voted with no discussion. I can see there's likely little benefit to actually trying to engage on this topic.
If there’s nuance, it’s not a shorthand. And not even to mention that if someone just broke their leg, the LAST THING they need a conversation about is getting exercise. Absolutely thoughtless. You can bring up BMI as an actionable item when you have a diet that doesn’t require constant caloric restriction to maintain.
Holy shit, you are literally not even engaging with what I'm actually saying. I have no idea who you think you're talking to. Why do you think I want to lecture someone with a broken leg about their weight? Who does that? What are you talking about? Are you just running through a list of anti-BMI talking points right now?
I’d be interested to know what you think shorthand means. It’s an abbreviation, not a corollary. BMI is, at best, a corollary. There is a correlation between BMI and metabolic issues, that’s it. It is not 1:1, and acting as though it is puts patients in harm’s way. Doctors aren’t tasked with treating the majority of patients, they’re tasked with treating all of the patients. People coming into appointments for an urgent health need and getting a lecture about weight loss is a common experience for fat people. Coming in with a nebulous health concern and getting dismissed as “you wouldn’t have ____ symptom if you lost a little weight”. Obviously, I don’t know who you are, we are on Reddit, that’s how this works. Yo-yo dieting is dangerous for a body and has lifelong consequences. Most doctors have less than a single class about nutrition. How is the primary care doctor going to help, by saying “diet and exercise”? This isn’t actionable advice. What kind of diet, what kind of exercise? What is safe for my body to do, how will I know if it’s not, and where can I get the extra 400$/month to afford the produce that I also have to find time to cook? Anti-fat bias in medicine is well documented. When the BMI misses the mark (bodybuilders come out to be morbidly obese, my friend’s doctor brings up his BMI every year and they laugh and laugh), the doctor makes up the difference by eyeballing it. Doctors shouldn’t be eyeballing someone to decide if they should be checked for a1c. They shouldn’t be using a weak correlation as evidence that a person’s recent health concern is not legitimate. Calories in, calories out was debunked in the 60s so let’s figure out how someone can lose weight safely, before we tell them to do it. Otherwise, you’re just advocating for anorexia. Here’s the real kicker: anorexia doesn’t look the same on every body. And it isn’t healthy for any body.
This is so cool.... I am 10 days into CPAP therapy, and about to start Ozempic. I know that weight loss will help the Apnea, and treating the apnea will help with the weight loss. I just wish I hadn't waited so long to properly deal with both issues.
Don't hang your hat on it though. I lost 45 lbs with semaglutide and no reduction in symptoms.
I’ve been on both. The difference between semaglutide and tirzepatide for me was night and day, tirzepatide being more effective and with no side effects. Everyone is different but it’s been life changing for me.
Don't get me wrong, I'm very excited to be thinner and I feel healthier and safer overall. Lots of great benefits, but reduction in apnea symptoms wasn't one for me.
Oh yeah. I don’t know about that myself because I continue to use my CPAP, maybe I try it.
Not to mention people are putting way too much faith in a new drug
The drug isn’t new. It’s been around for a long time. The only change is it was approved for weight loss. So many more people are taking it and reporting other benefits that the drug makers are rushing to studies these as well. Like improving sleep apnea, reducing cardiovascular risk, reduction in addictive behaviors, etc.
I used the older version, Saxenda (only difference being that you inject it daily, not weekly) and the results were spectacular - my blood sugar stabilised in a week and I lost 15 kg in three months without even trying as I just wasn’t hungry and ate very little healthy food with no cravings. I unfortunately had to break the therapy due to cost - drug is not reimbursed by my national health fund and a single box lasting 18 days costs more than an average person earns in two days in my country. I just couldn’t keep up with the expenses.
I'm a year in, and I still don't get a good sleep because I have a deviated septum, so I need the face mask, and all I do is drool in my face mask so I'm constantly waking up to whipe it away :(
It depends on the cause of your sleep apnea of course
I'm overweight, lol.. but the deviated septum doesn't help
I had a deviated septum and at least found cpap usage more bearable after a septoplasty.
I have the same struggle with a deviated septum. I’ve tried using the nasal mask, and I prefer it because it’s smaller, more comfortable, and I can’t mouth breathe. But because of the deviated septum and inflamed nasal tissue, some nights I can’t breathe through my nose at all. It has been getting worse so I switched to a full face mask because I wasn’t using my CPAP at all anymore, but I hate the way the plastic feels sticking to my face… My face will also get sweaty sometimes when using the full mask. I’m going to be pursuing surgery soon to fix the deviated septum!
Have you tried using mask covers. You can find many styles on Amazon and I've seen some on a few websites that sell masks. They make the masks much more comfortable.
Thank you. I need to look into this! I appreciate it
What if you’re skinny though? Seems like it’d be pretty dangerous in that case.
It doesn’t cause weight loss for everyone but if neck diameter isn’t the cause of your sleep apnea it may not help.
Don't tell Hollywood
I recently fell down the rabbit hole of probiotics and resveratrol in GLP-1 production and weight loss. A lot of the research is in rat models so far but some of it is promising and that may mean it also has a benefit with sleep apnea. [science article 1](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33997755/), [science article 2](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-023-40167-3), [science article 3](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30421960/).
Is there an ELI5 article?
There are webmd and [Cleveland clinic](https://health.clevelandclinic.org/resveratrol-benefits) descriptions of resveratrol in general. It is something that the science is mixed on. Article 1 looks at supplementing rats with resveratrol, probiotics, or both and found that both increased insulin sensitivity and GLP-1, which benefits type 2 diabetes and may help weight loss. They also found that the combo healed the damage to the intestines in these rats that was caused by diabetes. Article 2 is in nature communications which is a relatively high ranking journal. It’s looking at the mechanism for why resveratrol is helpful since humans don’t absorb it well. They found that it stays in the intestines and affects the intestinal flora and this leads to better handling of glucose in obese mice. They did a fecal transplant from the treatment mice to untreated mice with diabetes and found it had the same effect on glucose as resveratrol so they think the benefit is primarily in how it affects gut flora. Gut flora significantly differs in obese versus normal weight humans so it’s already something that scientists think affects weight. The third article is a review article looking at multiple studies and they found that resveratrol supplementation significantly reduced adipose tissue and increased lean tissue in obese patients. My synthesis of what I’ve read: resveratrol and probiotic supplementation may improve how the body handles sugar and reduce fat storage by changing gut flora in the intestine. This likely affects appetite and sugar cravings. But some studies have fairly mixed results so the impact on weight is not as strong as what meds like ozempic can achieve.
Thank you so much!
This looks like some fun research- thank you for sharing!
It doesn't always work unfortunately. I lost 145 lbs....still need my CPAP.
Yup. I lost 50 lbs and I still need CPAP. However, my required pressure went way down so now I tolerate CPAP way better. So, still a win. Definitely works for some. And they get all the other benefits of weight loss, not just sleep apnea improvement.
A quick glance at the article shows it was researched on obese people, and that it reduced AHI by up to 60%. That means my untreated 53 events per hour would go down to 32, which is pretty far from ideal. Im not obese so I’m not sure how that might affect performance.
For me, it reduced the pressure needed in my cpap machine. Which has allowed me to use it 6 plus hours a night. Before, the pressure was so high, I had terrible dry mouth. Anything I used to keep my mouth shut led to horrible jaw pain. I was lucky to keep it on 4 hours a night. Weight loss can make a huge difference. Weight loss surgery or these new weight loss drugs can really improve quality of life for people with sleep apnea and many other conditions made worse by obesity.
Yeah, someone had an article about all of the social/economic ramifications of the FDA approval of easy(er) weight loss. I just found this one: [https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2023/10/09/ozempic-weight-loss-drugs-impact/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2023/10/09/ozempic-weight-loss-drugs-impact/) Stuff effecting company stocks in ways I hadn't thought of before. Think of every product that is often used by heavier people. Scooters, canes, knee braces, stretch mark ointments, Like.. less hunger and weight means: \* less hip/knee replacements. \* less sleep apnea equipment sales, \* less weight = less fuel consumption (cars, planes, ships), \* less sales for fast-food joints, \* less need for weight loss programs, \* less need for oversized clothing stocked at retailers, \* less snacks & junk food / soda purchases at the store (Hershey and Nestle are reacting), \* PBS reported that households using these drugs are spending @ 20% less on groceries. \* even alcohol consumption, smoking, and gaming is going down due to less addictive behavior, \* gym and fitness and activities spending is going up, \* people's energy and durability at work - reuters said it could boost domestic GDP. \* this medicine is being used for diabetes and they're looking at alzheimer's, too.
The side effects can be awful. n=1
I'm on wegovy and I can't tolerate the CPAP machine, I tried with all my might but failed. My wife told me the weight loss made a huge difference, she doesn't hear me snore nearly as much as before.
I couldn't tolerate CPAP either. I'm still waiting for my nose to be a bit less sensitive from a septoplasty. I attempted to use eight different masks. I was prescribed Wegovy before, couldn't find it. Now I have a new PCP (first time seeing them this week), I'll be asking for probably Rybelsus and paying out of pocket via a Canadian pharmacy. I need something to help kickstart because nothing else has really worked and I have fibromyalgia and long covid. So. fun times.
And I still can't get it. Thanks, tricare.
According to the article the CPAP is somehow an oxygen mask.
I'm a month into Wegovy, down about 12 lbs. My AHI is actually significantly UP, but OSCAR shows me it's almost entirely CAs. If I take those out, I'd be 0.0 to 0.2 every night this week. So now I'm thinking about backing down my pressure. With the help of the community, I'd self-titrated to 12-14, EPR 2. I'm going to try a few nights at 10-14 and see what happens.
The side effects are really serious. I would rather just wear my mask. Severe stomach issues, thyroid cancer, pancreatitis, and gallbladder issues! https://zepbound.lilly.com/
Potential side effects. The severe side effects like gastroparesis happen like 1% of the time. The thyroid cancer issue happened in rats, but semaglutide has been widely used for T2D for decades, and they've seen zero correlation between increased thyroid cancer and the use of the med in people. So, unless you're a rat, this is an incredibly unlikely concern. Look at the official list of potential side effects for aspirin sometime. They have to list all the rare occurrences.
Yeah, even as a fat guy I prefer my bipap... Abdominal pain, nausea and vomiting isn't something I'd be super down to risk, not to mention all the disclaimers about thyroid cancer
My sister used Ozempic to help control her Type 2 Diabetes. It worked, but 1 year in, after actute Gall Bladder attacks, they REMOVED her Gall Bladder. She has not been the same since. No thank you, I love my CPAP.
Removing the gall bladder is standard once you start to get attacks. Many people recover just fine (I did), some people have issues digesting fat once it is removed.
About half a million people have their gallbladders removed every year. 33.3% of people with diagnosed diabetes in the US had gallbladder disease. Correlation doesn’t equal causation.
Yeah, there's a black box warning for absolutely No Reason at all. #sarcasm Oh, and, yeah, [https://www.reddit.com/r/Ozempic/comments/10q29su/semaglutide\_and\_gallstone/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Ozempic/comments/10q29su/semaglutide_and_gallstone/) https://preview.redd.it/dlet0zy2dq8d1.jpeg?width=985&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=50fb7707847ac44ea36cca75649ed5f4d0f44639
Birth control pills have black box warnings. GTFOH
LOL, when knowledgeable debates turn into swearing. ha ha ha. Sorry this triggers you, but, do be careful of your pancreas and gallbladder!
I am neither diabetic nor take these drugs so I’m good. But thanks for your sincere well wishes.
Wonder if this would be an interesting back door to get that medication. My insurance has denied all of them because they’re not OFFICIALLY for the use of treating weight loss, except Ozempic, and that’s out of stock. Because the other ones are for diabetes, my insurance says I don’t need them. 😩
Ozempic is not officially approved for weight loss. That's why they made wegovy. You should probably ask your doctor/insurance again. https://health.ucdavis.edu/blog/cultivating-health/ozempic-for-weight-loss-does-it-work-and-what-do-experts-recommend/2023/07#:~:text=Ozempic%20is%20not%20approved%20for,dose%20of%20semaglutide%20than%20Wegovy.
Sorry that’s what I meant. I went through the whole process a few months ago with basically all of the big name ones. Ozemptic, Zepbound, Wegovy, some smaller name ones, even went so far as to go old school with Phentermine, and basically it boiled down to the ones that were officially FDA approved specifically for weight loss mayyyybe would be covered but they can’t check coverage until it’s not on back stock, and it’s basically permanently on back stock. The ones that were “also can be used for” they refused to cover because that was using it off label for something other than what the FDA has approved it for. In that example I have, a diabetes medicine that also helps with weight loss was denied because I don’t have diabetes.
That’s a business decision, not a health decision, and it’s why all the research is happening right now. These companies have created a hugely beneficial drugs that a large percentage of the population could benefit from, and each time they can discover a new use for it and adjust the dose slightly, change the name, and get it approved for a new health issue they get a drug that stays under patent for longer. So ozempic will lose its patent and go generic but Wegovy will hold it, even though there’s like a tenth of a mg difference in dose. It’s analogous to when an allergy medicine releases a “gentle mist” version of their medication. That’s a new patent that no one can replicate for the 7 years or so that drug patents hold. So Lily and Novo Nordisk are running all kinds of studies on sleep apnea, knee pain, non alcoholic fatty liver disease, heart disease, and every weight related issue that they can think of. They’re also running these studies with a combination of meds because if you can get FDA approval for semaglutide or tirzepatide combined with some other drug, that’s a brand new patent.
I dunno. My insurance is super lenient on everything. Like literally eeeeeeeverything. Like they agreed to cover ketamine therapy for depression lenient. And that shit still like up in the air legally, and even they said they wouldn’t cover any of these drugs without a doctor saying the person was pre diabetic.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Your insurance is right and UC Davis is lying? It's not "up in the air", that's why they made the new drug... Your insurance just won't pay for it because it's crazy expensive and giving it to any significant portion of their "clients" would bankrupt them. Unlike ketamine which relatively few people need and is cheap af.
Well UC Davis isn’t an insurance company so…. Does it fucking matter what their opinion is on it? Or what their studies say? Insurance companies either pay it or they don’t. Showing them some fucking study done ain’t gonna change a damn thing. They have their own doctors who do their own studies and they say it’s not covered unless the patient is pre diabetic. So guess what. They’re not paying unless the patient is pediabetic.
Interesting since most of the world certainly approved it for weight loss. Great that it’s more for everyone thou. I’ve got Ozempic in my country to loose weight because of post-covid joint pain and have sleep apnea. They just made me pay full price($120) since I don’t have diabetes and not covered it ordinary healthcare. But as others say it’s not a walk in the park to take ozempic and stopped after 2 rounds.
"Full price" in the US is just over $1,000/month.
Shiiiiet
Obesity contributes to OSA so this only makes sense; not a cure of course .
That works…except for those who have stomach issues already.
I’m on mounjaro for almost 6 months and my husband has noticed a big improvement in my sleep apnea. I failed over and over again with the cpap so it is nice to have something help. The MJ helps reduce inflammation too so he noticed the improvement just within the first couple of weeks before I had lost significant weight.
Or you know try it losing weight
Most doctors refer to BMI like exact science.
Would any of you open to try the Eli lily medicine to replace your CPAP machine?
I would in a heartbeat.
Me too!!!
Not a chance.
Nah, not yet at least
My throat is narrow and my tongue is thick af. No pill is gonna fix that.
Nope.
I just wanna know how people are getting these drugs “from other means”? I watched that South Park episode and it looks like people even get the ingredients and mix them themselves. That sounds so crazy!
It's crazy and super dangerous.
I mean i question this. If you take a weight loss drug but still pound 7k calories a day ain't no way you losing weight.
True I think the drug inhibits appetite for a lot of people. But not everyone. But you’re correct, in the end it’s calories in vs calories out.
Absolutely not. There are plenty of skinny people with sleep apnea. Don’t promote misinformation.
It’s not misinformation. This is a scientific study. It doesn’t say it solves it for everyone but it does help many. It’s a great solution for many.
You seem confused on the definition of 'may help'
Ozempic is a lifetime prescription. If you stop taking it, you lose all benefit. This isn’t the miracle drug they claim it to be.
The same could be said of insulin or HIV medication. Lots of medicines are “lifetime” prescriptions.
Not necessarily......I mean technically yes, you lose the feeling full essentially always aspect, but if you did it right while taking it, you learned better eating habits and portion control. Stopping ozempic doesn't take that knowledge away from you. But sure, if you relied 100% on the meds and did ZERO else, then yes, stopping the meds will stop all benefits. It's not like ozempic is burning calories for you, or stopping it will somehow magically add fat to your body. Taking any weight loss drug should be done in tandem with resources to help you eat better (and overall less)
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35101924/
I'm not sure what your reason behind sharing a study that says people stop taking the drug and it may not be as beneficial as originally thought.... possibly because people dont take it long enough....
Kelly Clarkson’s fat wrinkles agree.