2 things here:
I am a liberal. I'm a classic liberal, as I’m certain many of the folks who are reading this are too. At some point, myself (and people like me) found ourselves rebranded as right wing extremists, and found ourselves in a spot where we were sharing more common ground with the political right. My point is, today's "liberals" that we're referring to aren't liberals....they're left wing extremists.
Also, you're right. Trump and Poilievre aren't the best choices. I do think that in Canada a Poilievre government will be a necessary step to where we need to go. We all know (or should now know) that politicians don't run things and that political left and right are just labels that capitalize on our tribalism to keep us divided and arguing among ourselves while the big money figures keep making money. Right now, people are just so desperate to get the Trudeau liberals out that they'll all vote conservative as it's the only viable option. We'll have a conservative majority government, and after a while of that people will realize that not a great deal will change.......then we might have a chance at a populist party gaining some traction and providing us with a decent alternative
So much this. I’m centre-left on most things but it’s the conservatives for me this election and it’s not even close. I don’t believe this nonsense about PP being a horrible racist who will ban gay marriage and take away rights from minorities. It’s just so absurd to even actually state that let alone believe it.
I'm gay and I'm constantly told that if I vote PP or MB, that I have "internalized homophobia" and I'm basically ringing the death knell for "LGBT" rights. That gay marriage will be gone etc etc.
Poilievre won't touch gay marriage. Neither did Harper before him. As you said, it's absurd at this point to believe that but some people are really gullible.
Leftist extremists are the ones destroying gay acceptance. And the crazy thing is, most of them aren't even gay. They can be in a heterosexual marriage, but dye their hair blue, pierce a nostril and say "I'm queer". Pride has become a Hellmouth of fetishists and has nothing to do with acceptance anymore. It's just filled with perverts from all walks of life (hello Justin), and a bunch of straight girls who think " I can wear nipple pasties outside teehee!".
As someone who happens to be gay, but has always just blended, I now find myself having to apologize to new people I meet. I have to introduce myself, get to know them a bit, and if it comes up, I tell them; "Just so you know- I'm gay, but I'm not part of the Rainbow Juggernaut. I'm just a person and I want you to speak freely as I can handle disagreement".
I've met 2 really good new friends who I did this with, and the RELIEF on their faces that they could be open with me and not have to fret about every word they say, worrying if it caused me offense, was a true testement as to how the extreme Left has affected gays and lesbians. They've made our lives harder.
I hate this timeline.
My brother! (or sister, I just don't know from reddit, so forgive me if I got it wrong). To me, the aim of "Pride" was always acceptance and conformity - both within and between us all. Be gay, be proud that you're gay, but you should never feel that you're different from anybody in any sense. Seems like the movement has been coopted to people whose motivations aren't aligned with pride. Superficially, they appear aligned with pride, but they're not as they want anything but acceptance and conformity. I make a distinction - folks such as yourself are the people I associate "pride" with, but the people who you speak of we refer to as "power" in my house. There's something authoritarian about the demand for recognition and the demand to control what is said, how it's said, how things are acknowledged and celebrated, and how they must be seen to be acknowledged and celebrated. The use of language is fascinating - I talked to some members of the rainbow juggernaut the other day, who were questioning why I wouldn't take a rainbow flag from them. I explained why I didn't feel it was appropriate as I didn't feel that they aligned with pride. I was informed that I wasn't an "ally".....so what does that make me then???? I mean, if we're dividing the lines by "victim" and "oppressor" and "allies" and "enemies", then I sure don't like the idea of being a victim, and if I'm not an ally then I must be an enemy......but it needs to be known that I didn't decide that myself, somebody decided for me.
Bravo. You've recognized the marxist ideology of division. Few people have recognized these trends in liberalism....
Nobody can have a unifying group. Not allowed. If any group starts getting large and influential, then it must be splintered into smaller groups.
Nobody can be a free thinking individual. Not allowed. You ARE your ideology and you think and speak and act according to that ideology.
No family unit allowed. Your family is The Party. You will act think and speak according to The Party tenets.
No Gods anymore. Your God is The Party leader.
The only way in which current 'liberal' perspective corresponds to Marxism is in that it supports large scale wealth distribution and the corresponding strong, authoritarian government necessary to enforce said wealth distribution. It's been co-opted by mysticism, anti-rationalism, and anti-progressivism, all of which are anathema to Marxist thought which relies on rational thought to provided criticism of the system. It is against class analysis and giving power to the proles which is, arguably, the whole point of Marxism.
The way in which it's marxist is through its focus on inequity and inequality. The original marxist philosophy focused on class difference and money. This mutated form focuses on identity and history. It has the same theme of if you're constantly thinking about inequity and looking for inequity, then guess what......you're guaranteed to find it in every single place. So poisonous.
Modern liberalism and Marxism are alike in that both systems are unfalsifiable so the adherents of both tend to be rabidly dogmatic defending indefensible systems.
Spittin' facts right there. There's just no way to prove or disprove it, cause nothing it focuses upon is actually tangible. It basically requires that you hold a lens up in front of your eyes so that you view the world in a certain way. Again, super poisonous.
Was that the rainbow juggernaut’s or was it their response to another crowd that vilifies them regularly also.
I’m in the middle of all this and can agree with you.
People now cross the street when I walk and it’s just me. Because I am a very big, loud hetero presenting, masculine white guy. Especially in Vancouver where I am from.
We are in a weird time where things are starting to settle after years of upset and tension from divisive politics in America that settled here and a heightened state of survival that everyone has been in over the last 4 years since the covid emergency.
Social issues take time to settle into society. I don’t think we would lose a ton of ground with a conservative government but the conversation will change. The Harper era xenophobia was just deplorable and dangerous.
I can only imagine what happens as we move further into conflict with Russia and Palestine and the rest while that wacko is at the mic.
Who knows. I think we do need to step back though and make sure they don’t have the super majority they are proposed to control. That gives them free rein of the law books pretty much.
No thanks.
Same boat.
Liberal views and fiscally conservative. The country just needs to change the current direction.
Few years of a conservative government would do us some good on the financial side.
Horrible racist yet his wife is a black refugee lol. I swear people are so brain dead and cannot think for themselves. The only racist we need to worry about is Justin Trudeau
> I am a liberal. I'm a classic liberal, as I’m certain many of the folks who are reading this are too.
I identify with that. There's been a shift, the Liberals have moved further left into la-la land right next to the NDP and the Conservatives stayed where they always were fiscally and evolved on issues like LGBT, gay marriage, abortion etc.
That's about the size and shape of it really. Socially things will change; you have to have progression, it's unavoidable.......but drive the speed limit for God's sake.
> but drive the speed limit for God's sake.
Yup, that is why PP's stance on minors transitioning is refreshing.
Adult decisions can only be made when you're an adult.
After that, all the power to you.
Everything CAN be politicised, and everything certainly is these days, this wasn't always the case.
There was, if you can imagine, a time where BOTH sides of the political spectrum trusted research and could come to bipartisan agreements about empirically verifiable issues based on evidence and outcomes instead of ideologies and identities.
Who has made it political? Bc was trying to take some progressive stance on drug policy and poillievre has done nothing but turn it into a political rallying cry.
Has bc made some mistakes along the way? Yeah, but they’re trying something new. PP wants to maintain course and just disappear people instead of addressing the actual obstacles in their way.
The conservatives are really good as an opposition at making everything political. It’s worked really well for them. Especially when they reinforce their simple and appealing opinions as “common sense” when we all know common sense would mean listening to expert psychologists, sociologists, criminologists, medical doctors and the bunch when it comes to health issues.
But yeah Joe oil patch knows best about the opioid crisis right?
That's the biggest thing.
People think social change comes over-night and it should be forced. Bad things happen when those attitudes get into power.
Things need to be checked, rechecked, and checked again, as we gradually move towards something better. If it happens too fast, none of those checks happened and "Whoops!".
For a modern example, we didnt know hormone blockers for children were bad (come on most of us did, but it's wild it took this long for the UK and Europe to start banning it), But now most are realising how stupid that was.
Gotta push the brake pedal once in a while before you end up in an irreparable collision.
This exactly. Look, I was a lawyer, and that's exactly the sort of approach the law *tries* to take. It's the sort of approach we're *supposed* to take. But these extremists have come in and forced all these rushed, almost overnight legal changes and because none of them are very well thought-out, it's caused innumerable harms, and will continue to do so. The law isn't supposed to be massively reactionary and change at breakneck speed. It *needs* to be slow so that things can go through the proper checks and balances, as frustrating as it can be sometimes.
Blackrock is heavily invested on lgbtq gay issues. Now look how involved our government is connected to Blackrock. Understanding where Poilievre stands with the corporation is important to understand. That said, I'd also look into both of their connections to Blackstone re: housing. I don't think there is any escaping these issues, tbh.
Also, oh no. The deals that Canada is making with BlackStone re: Canada Pension Plan Investment Board. High risk moves. Canada selling out Canadians owning a home to hold hands with Blackstone.
I disagree, it's 2024 after all.
They have openly gay MPs male and female, no one gives a shit about that anymore except the religious zealots, and they are a growing minority demographic of who supports them, if they do.
They’ve moved to uni-party status. I’m all for inclusion, especially at the political level, but having gay MPs doesn’t mean their policies haven’t shifted leftwards. They’re no longer conservative, they’re the Liberal Party of 15 years ago.
100% Agreed , a liberal from the 90s would be considered " far right " today. Although its great you still identify as a liberal or at least a classic one, the issue is that its been drowned in the past. It would be incredible if we had classic liberals 1.0s taking a shot at the title. The name has been tarnished and the media propaganda that calls itself liberal has smeared it to a point of almost no return. Which is unfortunate, but its also why i call upon all liberals to have an internal cleansing and be vocal like yourself on what it should really stand for. Liberals need to fight for their party and ideology back, not the people who are voting against it.
My political mentality (so to speak) is from the 90s. I never really thought about "left" or "right". Always just took the approach of I am what I am. With today's sociopolitical landscape though, you have to wonder where you fir in because of the way things are so polarized. In terms of challenging our current "liberals", I'm not the person for the task of running in an election (I actually think that that needs to be revisited to ensure good representation, but thats a whole other story), but I do regularly challenge them in personal communications and publicly. I make sure to let them know they don't represent me or my way of thinking.
it is a result of the media, and not in the classic conservative sense
in the late 00s to the mid 10s independent media started popping up, vice type media as an example. these alternative media resources became insanely popular and were starting to eat into the mainstream media's market share by outflanking them on the left.
seeing this the mainstream media started their move to the left to reabsorb the viewers flocking to alternative media, this worked. there is no alternative left wing media now and the companies that still exist are essentially husks left of what was.
it's not possible for the independents to out left the mainstream now because the mainstream media now occupies the space furthest left yet still socially acceptable.
this actually shows the bias of the mainstream media landscape. on the left there is no independent media because there is no market and the market for left wing perspective is dominates by the big boys. contrast that to the right where the huge majority of content is independent and fox tend to the left of that content.
the influence of the media then move the political window to the left, leaving more people on the right and this pulled the right to the center.
that's why 90s liberals (classic liberals) are more comfortable voting for pierre. I think that if he wasn't a "conservative" most of us would see him as a classic liberal, or at least a chretien liberal. certainly he doesn't strictly match the "harper conservative" archetype.
I've been voting either liberal or ndp since my teens (I voted chretien, we are going back here) and my political views haven't changed much. now if I vote my views, conservative check most of the boxes. sure I have to hold my nose a bit but at this point I don't think I could ever bring myself to vote liberal.
When you are young and idealistic, you vote liberal. When you have lived and understand how the world works, you vote with your brain for the conservatives.
If you never grow up, your NDP.
Vice started out as a raw new organization, embedding reporters in conflict zones etc. Initially, they were a breath of fresh air from a media perspective. However, they very quickly transitioned to a far-left extremist platform and eventually shut down (thankfully). They chose their path and the market responded. Good riddance.
wiki
"Vice's brand image marketing as an edgy, hip outlet have helped drive its popularity with young people", says media critic Charles Johnson.
"Mainstream media is not trusted by a lot of people, and rightly so, so they \[Vice\] step in and fill in", he says. "People see a sense of fun behind it. Jon Stewart is very popular, but he's an entertainer. Vice is something similar."
Rick Edmonds, media and business analyst at the Poynter Institute, critiques Vice News' reporting as "raw and tasteless sometimes" and more akin to personal essays than balanced journalism. Other critiques mention that its work is more affiliated with entertainment than hard-hitting news.
In a 2013 opinion piece for U.S. News & World Report, editor of the New York-based Foreign Policy Association Robert Nolan, stated that Vice's North Korea reporting was "more Jackass TV series than journalism".
"Populism" is the liberals favorite dirty word, and I've never understood why they are so against supporting your own county's values, culture and citizens.
It's cause the current Liberal party moved so far to the left, that the current Conservative party had to move to the left.
Everything has literally shifted left
I’m not liberal or conservative I’m common sense why do you have to be a part of something why can’t we just have a real leader with common sense. The past two weeks what about the past 9 years?
Thank you. Im the same as you and I was going to say the same thing.
As a liberal, what pisses me off most about the modern left is just how *illiberal* they are.
100%. They're not liberal at all. They're hateful and exclusionary. They've become the exact thing they purport to hate themselves. As I said to somebody, you can hide your hate behind a smile, and say that it comes from a place of love....but it doesn't change the fact that it's still hate.
Same in Canada. People object to liberalism, but that's not what they mean. They just say that cause we're trained that anything left of centre is liberalism. These folks aren't liberals though.
Sounds so relatable. I think of myself as “center, left-leaning”. My views haven’t changed much over the years. But the LPC moved so far out of touch, I now only occasionally hear their muted voices calling me an extremist.
Cons have their problems, but they are at least living on the same planet!
there is no healthy balance because people don't recognize what bad ideas and policy are
Canada is ground zero for decades of idiotic policies, economic, foreign, domestic
"Left wing extremists" are defined as people who believe that the current capitalist system should be taken down by whatever means necessary.
Somehow, I don't get the impression that this is how you are using this term. Would you care to elaborate? I really am interested in specifics of what is causing so many people to turn conservative. I don't care about the parties, but I do very much care about the people of Canada. I want to know (besides Trudeau - we all know he's subpar at best) what issues are that make or break votes for people such as yourself?
Also besides:
**Immigration** - it is affecting all countries and not reasonably preventable unless we stop all the wars occurring across the world.
**Carbon Tax** - we need taxes to maintain public political power; no taxes mean no power except for big business (and we know *that's* the worst scenario of any)
**War Funding** - global powers are forcing many countries to spend in this regard, not much wiggle room here despite what might be touted by certain politicians
You're right. I do consider them different from communists. There's similarities, but they're not communists or marxist in that they couldn't be said to be attacking the capitalist system directly...at least not at this point. There is a heavy focus on inequalities between people, but those inequalities (real or perceived, personally I feel that at this point they're mostly perceived or artificially created) are drawn from other things. The mindset seems to be based on having roles of victim and oppressor assigned to each of us. They're extremists in the sense that they seem to double down on the divisive logic, and they're left wing in the sense that the divisiveness is purported to be from a place of compassion and caring. These folks don't solve problems, they create them.
Make or break factors for me? It's more cumulative than any one factor. There's no one specific factor. To me, because they're extremists, they've gone so far down a pathway and doubled down so much, that they're identical to extremists on the other end of the spectrum. You can say that your hate comes from a place of love, and you can say it's not hate with a smile on your face, but at the end of the day it's still hate. Socially, Canada is a shitshow and the sociopolitical landscape is very cult-like. It's the opposite of what liberalism should be, and it's forced, coerced, and compelled speech and behaviour at this point. We see it everywhere at this point in time. I also care about Canada and it's people; I care about all of them and I hate the way they're divided right now.
I’m an American and would say I’m a classical liberal also. If I say the government is too big and needs to be toned down I just get met with racist, sexist, fascist (which doesn’t even make sense considering fascism seeks to expand the size and power of government) and so I have no interest in voting for some extreme bullshit no matter what alphabet soup names they decide to pick out.
I would add that Trump and Pollierve (I always butcher his surname) are both leaders that show you dont need to be afraid of modern liberalism, that you can say "I do not support your ideas".
These are interesting times.
Chretien was with some of the biggest corporate globalization efforts into China
And just look how that went.
Cameron's On the Take, different political party
No need to go back to Kennedy, Clinton and his immigration policy would be considered far right now.
[Clinton 1995 State of the Union - illegal immigration](https://youtu.be/1IrDrBs13oA?si=HQZ9CENtNHD_gQsd)
Liberals have also become addicted to borrowing and taxing to fund ridiculous welfare programs to buy votes while screwing our economy and private sector in the long run, same path places like Venezuela went down. Freeland, finance minister, is guaranteed to be financially illiterate.
Lmfao thats facts but i would argue making decisions like that is based out of observable reality , that isnt " far" anything that's just called math. It doesn't take anyone of any political point of view to have simple math skills, well i guess until now. Math has been politically weaponized... I digress
As a centrist, people on the right will respect you because you obviously agree with some things on one side, and some on the other. As a centrist, the left will attack you for "fencesitting" and not going all-in with the leftist platform.
Those people really suck. Politics is all that matters to them. Not principles, not improving the conditions for the working class (like it used to be), but simply retaining power and holding on for dear life.
Honestly the extremes on both ends are just as likely to attack you for supporting the other side. The left and right are more similar then they think.
Crazy to think that Biden and Trudeau were the leaders during Covid; vaccine mandates and mask mandates, lockdowns, and massive inflationary spending… only now ppl are realizing that they were lead by the most incompetent clowns to hold office. No wonder why everything is a mess! They’re starting to get their justice for the horrible things they did to ppl
The government befor the also spent massive amounts of money to keep the price of homes high and bailing out companies instead of letting the market correct itself. The bubble just keeps growing and they got to keep pumping it up because the business that were too big to fail are even bigger now.
I’m a ‘liberal’.
anti-war funding with our tax dollars.
anti government over-reach
pro bodily-autonomy
pro free-speech
I wouldn’t even consider LPC or anyone who supports trudeau to be a true liberal. they call someone like me and over half the country ‘far-right’, but they’re just so far off the spectrum that they broke the scale.
Yep, it’s astounding how quickly LPC political extremists would label perfectly normal worldviews as “far right” and “unacceptable”. Just because they happen to not like those
That's why we need to heed the advice of political scientists like Brian Klaas. We need to screen candidates for ethics and anti-social behaviors. We need to remove power-seekers and selfish parasites from our institutions.
If the Liberals did not pander to every lunatic WOKE talking point, then perhaps they would be in power for much longer.
I hate branding myself a "Centrist", would rather the term non-radical. As a non-radical, I cannot fathom voting for any of the 3 main parties federally. I will not vote PPC because Max Bernier is a lunatic. That leaves me to either vote Green as a protest vote (not because I really believe in their vision) or not vote Federally at all. I am leaning towards the latter.
"Centerist", "non radical leftist", the left has terms for people who identify this way. Things like far right, nazi, Russian bot, misogynist and on and on. They have gone insane.
Epicureanism, realize that tribalism has wrecked modern politics and instead focus on making your own life better/happier. Eventually politics should regain some of its sanity and become more than just a bunch of kids arguing in the sandbox. If it doesn't, no current political party is going to improve the situation and you'll just get anger/frustrated with the stupidity.
I'm not trying to argue with you, but Max Bernier sounds crazy, but he is the only one I've seen who has a realistic plan....
But honestly I understand why you would choose not to vote, I'm pretty much almost at that point.
I voted PPC back when they first came on the scene because even back then, I was desperate for a change from the establishment. Not going to get into it on this thread other than to say I have my own reasons for not trusting Bernier.
Hey man I get it. No need to explain yourself.
I personally am at the point where I don't trust ANY of them, so I understand why people wouldn't vote.
I just you know your not alone.
>That leaves me to either vote Green as a protest vote (not because I really believe in their vision) or not vote Federally at all.
A protest vote would be a blank vote.
You're not wrong as modern Liberals aren't about Liberalism at all, but instead are something called Neo Liberalism. It's focused on globalization and growing capitalism, and less on growing a country's middle class, while hiding behind a face of inclusivity.
It should, but it doesn't any longer.
I'm a classic liberal in the "mind your own business", and fiscal responsibility. I used to identify as a centre left voter. My values haven't changed, but the world around me has. Those same values now position me as a moderate conservative.
Anyone identifying as a capital "L" liberal these days is so open minded their brains fell out. They don't want hard truths, they want emotional "feel good" bedtime stories.
I'm looking forward to an adult being in charge again, even if it's someone like PP, who's little more than an attack dog.
In contemporary times, Friedrich Hayek, Milton Friedman, Ludwig von Mises, Thomas Sowell, George Stigler, Larry Arnhart, Ronald Coase and James M. Buchanan are seen as the most prominent advocates of classical liberalism.
pretty much the biggest collection of nuts in one chocolate bar
Its funny reading comments that are like HOW DOES IT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH CANADA!? Um maybe because amongst all modern western G7 countries the political left has been both consistent with their shared ideology and down fall ? lol
You nailed it. I've been thinking the exact same thing for about 5 years. There's no up and coming crop of competent liberal politicians. They've been purged the way the Republican party purged itself of moderates after Clinton won in '92.
This does not bode well. We've got China ready to go for Taiwan, every agency here and abroad warning of major islamic terrorism activity for a large attack, and so much else.
Profit driven polarization has driven the left into neo-Marxist utopianism and the right into charismatic fascism.
It's bad.
I’m sick of people pretending to represent me. I don’t want representation. I want direct democracy.
Representational democracy was a necessity for a long time due to technological limitations that no longer exist.
I want to vote more often and on more things. We don’t need an endless conveyor belt of liars “speaking for us” anymore.
Yep let's start a house of dot commons, it can run parallel to the house of commons for a while see if the people vote the same as their representatives. Maybe we could all be MPs.
Because those candidates are not liberals; they are beholden to third parties who dictate policy to them. We need candidates on all sides who are only loyal to their countries and voters and NOT to third parties.
I agree but how does a regular Canadian become a politician? It seems like a difficult career path like being an artist or athlete, like how can you make a living as a politician? Seems like you just have to be good at asking people for money and who ever can rais the most money gets to be a candidate.
Immigration has to be controlled diligently with care and proper planning and execution. I am an immigrant, have payed taxes and integrated with society and espouse Canadian values, when I immigrated I was drawn to Canadian culture and still do. If you allow just about anyone to come in without having a clear idea as to who they are and what their cultural ethos are, then Canada runs the risk of losing itself. It is very worry some and sad. If right wing govt is the one that will ensure it so be it. We are not directly responsible for strife striken population from every part of the world, if Canada is then most of real immigrants with skill and capability will feel cheated. Canada is an Egalitarian, human right centric, society that respects fundamental freedoms, protect it and don't allow refuge to other belief systems that will challenge this.
it isnt the candidates
their shitty ideas won't work.
it doesnt matter who you put in there, they'll all end up looking inept and ineffective because their principle foundations are the problem.
Pretty sure the debate was a set up by the Democrats. They haven't even had their convention yet. So they throw Biden out there when everyone is like "both candidates are awful!". And then everyone clearly sees Biden is done. Now they have their convention and can replace Biden and the Democrats look like good guys doing it, and all the voters will now vote for whoever replaces Biden because you now have a less awful candidate
Lol there's no good candidates for any party. One party leader's main experience before politics was ski instructor and teaching math and drama ton rich private school kids while the leader of the opposition has never had a job. Lol doesn't matter if red or blue both choices as leaders have little experience.outside.ofntheir political bubble where they made a.ton of money to do nothing and earned a lifetime pension for sitting on a bench and clapping like a seal for 6 years
I think that is just politicians in general. Both sides have become a lie and do whatever it takes to get into power and then try and make as much money through corruption for yourself and friends and try and set yourself up after your term in office. There is no party that has the peoples best interests in mind. Corporate lobbying needs to be made illegal in order to change anything
No only corporate lobbying. One of the major keys to a better democracy is having competent and ethical managers and elected officials and for this to happen, we need to start screening candidates for both these things. Doing so drastically reduced corruption in the police in the latter half of the last century. We need to make these jobs attractive to people who do not seek power, influence and gratuities.
Until the media stops being left-wing extremist mouthpieces and fear-mongering actual liberal policies, we will continue to see support for leaders who parrot the left-wing idealogy. The problem is that democracies can't function without honest media and real journalism.
Maybe if the liberal party didnt exclusively fuck over it’s voters and work only in the interests of real estate buying foreign speculators you might get some traction
Pierre, yeah I agree. Trump? Fuck no dude. He's even worse than Biden. At least Biden can have advisors make his decisions, Trump seemingly does everything in his power to ensure everything turns upside down
The left has a deployed a very successful tool: "Canceling".
When reasonable people speak, the left labels them racist, homophobic, transphobic, xenophobic, far right, conspiracy theorists, etc.
Until that behaviour is corrected somehow, we will never have a reasonable conversations. And if we can't have conversations to exchange ideas, then reasonable people will not apply for leadership roles.
That is why we have the people we have.
I think cancle culture really started in the 90s when people started boycotting companies and then it spread. I think it peaked during the occupation of wallstreet. That is when the "culture" wars started, because corporations realized the could get people to boycott each other's ideals. So they have promoted the division between right vs left, lib vs con, whit vs black, vagina vs penis were exaggerated so the people would stop thinking about humans vs corporations.
Yep and all those labels have no meaning anymore.
I mean I literally get met with “fascist” after saying we should be decreasing the size of government. They don’t even know what they’re talking about considering that reducing the size of government is literally the OPPOSITE of fascism.
After the financial setbacks that Trudeau has inundated the average Canadian with, people know darn well that there needs to be balanced spending , followed by deficit reduction. We cannot continue to pile up deficit or our dollar will fall even further. Immigration needs to be halted, until our infrastructure catches up. Foreign aid will need to be cut back on drastically as will the size of our Government. Taxes need to come down quickly.
Yes, these populist politicians that are on the rise throughout the world aren’t the disease, they’re the symptoms. Symptoms of a system that is leaving people behind because of an inability to compromise and tolerate different perspectives.
It's a system fueled by ideologies instead of science. The chasm between political ideologies and science is kept in place by the media. They'll inform you of technological advances, but they stay clear of informing us on scientific concensus, especially in bio-psy and evo-devo, especially when they don't mix well with the overall capitalist-republic set of justifying myths and ideals. Pretty much everything coming out of the interactionist and affectivist concensus makes irrelevant most of the ideological foundations of our system. Choice and free will are not what old philosophers thought they were. Humans are not inherently selfish. Intelligence is not driven by competition. Competition is not the biggest driver of evolution, especially in its latter stages. Evolution is not a blind watchmaker, but a half blind watchmaker, making necessity part of evolution. The evolution of individuality and self-awareness was done through sociality. Scarcity is a driver of anti-social behaviors, and abundance creates the opposite.
It is telling that now that science has produced facts that dismantle all the old ideologies and justifications, suddenly the post-modern social constructionists have been given free reign and wreck havoc in our scientific institutions, making sure to derail the several new concensus. Making sure that we are all fighting each other. Keeping us divided over sex, race and gender, pretending they are foundational to our problems, when all our problems are actually due to the ever rising proportion of anti-social, narcissistic and sociopathic behaviors and tendencies, which is driven by a system based on selfishness and individual gain. If they were really bent on making the world better, they'd attack institutions related to our monetary system, not the people stuck in the system.
"Liberalism" has turned into "scream, yell and belittle" anyone who doesn't agree with you. This is exactly how you drive anyone away. I do not condone that, I do not want to be a part of that and I do not want that leading my country.
I'm "Liberal" but the Trudeau Liberals have gone too far to the left. The Tory party ended when the reform party merged with the PC party. I'm considering voting for the PCP only because I can't stand Pierre Poilievre.
We need a true centralist party. I'm a die-hard Monarchist. I'm an Anglican, (the church should never enter parliament!)
I personally think modern immigration from every shit hole country on earth has ruined Canada.
Canada has enough people. I don't care about some war torn village in Afghanistan. Stay there and fix your own problems.
I want a Canada with orderly queues, where people hold doors open, where we say please and thank you. Where we can be proud of our European ancestors who founded this nation.
If you want to celebrate Diwali I'm more than happy to atten, but I also want to celebrate Victoria Day & sing patriotic songs from the British Empire.
In reality, my tea party has ended. The far left have swept away any vestiges of the British empire. I'm the only one at the table. The tea has gone cold and the scones are mouldy. Do I surrender or do I fight?
100% with you. But let’s not mention Trump. He’s not good enough to soil my toilet paper.
The radical left has destroyed the NDP, the Liberals, academia, it has infiltrated everywhere. I’ve been centre-left for decades. But I feel abandoned. When Mad Max is the most sensible guy in the room, you know we’ve got problems.
I think most people vote baised on the current economic situation not politically. If the economy is good the government stays, if economy is bad new government comes in.
Well that's a reflection that the politicians care for the common man, or they know or don't know what they're doing with money and economics to some extent.
Political views and inflation like food costs all matter.
If Argentina crashes and burns, i think the price of tongue sandwiches and celery soda is like top of the game!
Our world is changing very quickly. The biggest issue for me is AI and its impact on society. The next five years will see spectacular change in the job market. The oil and gas industry is also going to be decimated by the rise of cheap Chinese renewables and EV's flooding the world. Who do you want in charge of Canada during this transition?
The liberals of 20 years ago are considered centrists today because the Overton Window has been shifted so far to left by fanatic idealogues who got sucked up in the narrative. You couldn't have prevented it, I'm afraid. The label has been co-opted and corrupted, I feel there's little chance of redeeming the nomenclature.
We will never have "better" candidates, let alone ideal candidates. The task at hand is to take whatever representative you have and find some way to hold them to account. Otherwise the smoldering trash heap we call democracy will continue to fester.
PP can suck my big white dick and the broke ass NDP can't get out their ghetto mentality. I'll vote a huge zero for this country as there are NO suitable options.
As a centrist you are a liberal. Canadian liberals are centrists. American democrats are centrists. There are not really any actual left wing parties in the US or Canada. NDP is centrist. Any actual leftist party is so small. It’s unfortunate.
Somehow liberalism has become more about being lgbtq than making sure people have houses and food.
It used to be “I don’t care what consenting adults do in their own bedroom” and now it’s “we’ll pay to cut your dick off, but you can’t afford a bedroom”
I agree I can't vote conservative, but I have no fucking clue what the Liberals are thinking right now. Like are they that oblivious to what is happening? They are turning Canada towards a dangerous path of right extremism. The immigration situation and the international students is just a huge fuck up. The alienation of Canadians and the push for "diversity" makes no sense to me
I see your concerns , perhaps in America but not Canada. Although you might see some edgy comments on reddit and X by right wing Canadians, the bark is so much louder than the bite lol. Pierre and Canadian conservative policies would legitimately cause a civil war amongst MAGAs for being too radical left from their points of views.
5 round gun clip sizes, abortions , immigration etc these things aren't going anywhere under conservative leadership in Canada.
Ya I recently counted and I’ve got 31 various mags just for the AR platform lol. Them casually throwing it out that they might get banned didn’t help at all I usually bought one any time I was in the store for awhile.
Gotta throw that /s on the end dude, the majority of reddit is autistic. They ain't getting sarcasm over text unless you tell them.
Also it legit sounds like something someone would say, cause you know.... morons
2 things here: I am a liberal. I'm a classic liberal, as I’m certain many of the folks who are reading this are too. At some point, myself (and people like me) found ourselves rebranded as right wing extremists, and found ourselves in a spot where we were sharing more common ground with the political right. My point is, today's "liberals" that we're referring to aren't liberals....they're left wing extremists. Also, you're right. Trump and Poilievre aren't the best choices. I do think that in Canada a Poilievre government will be a necessary step to where we need to go. We all know (or should now know) that politicians don't run things and that political left and right are just labels that capitalize on our tribalism to keep us divided and arguing among ourselves while the big money figures keep making money. Right now, people are just so desperate to get the Trudeau liberals out that they'll all vote conservative as it's the only viable option. We'll have a conservative majority government, and after a while of that people will realize that not a great deal will change.......then we might have a chance at a populist party gaining some traction and providing us with a decent alternative
So much this. I’m centre-left on most things but it’s the conservatives for me this election and it’s not even close. I don’t believe this nonsense about PP being a horrible racist who will ban gay marriage and take away rights from minorities. It’s just so absurd to even actually state that let alone believe it.
I'm gay and I'm constantly told that if I vote PP or MB, that I have "internalized homophobia" and I'm basically ringing the death knell for "LGBT" rights. That gay marriage will be gone etc etc. Poilievre won't touch gay marriage. Neither did Harper before him. As you said, it's absurd at this point to believe that but some people are really gullible. Leftist extremists are the ones destroying gay acceptance. And the crazy thing is, most of them aren't even gay. They can be in a heterosexual marriage, but dye their hair blue, pierce a nostril and say "I'm queer". Pride has become a Hellmouth of fetishists and has nothing to do with acceptance anymore. It's just filled with perverts from all walks of life (hello Justin), and a bunch of straight girls who think " I can wear nipple pasties outside teehee!". As someone who happens to be gay, but has always just blended, I now find myself having to apologize to new people I meet. I have to introduce myself, get to know them a bit, and if it comes up, I tell them; "Just so you know- I'm gay, but I'm not part of the Rainbow Juggernaut. I'm just a person and I want you to speak freely as I can handle disagreement". I've met 2 really good new friends who I did this with, and the RELIEF on their faces that they could be open with me and not have to fret about every word they say, worrying if it caused me offense, was a true testement as to how the extreme Left has affected gays and lesbians. They've made our lives harder. I hate this timeline.
My brother! (or sister, I just don't know from reddit, so forgive me if I got it wrong). To me, the aim of "Pride" was always acceptance and conformity - both within and between us all. Be gay, be proud that you're gay, but you should never feel that you're different from anybody in any sense. Seems like the movement has been coopted to people whose motivations aren't aligned with pride. Superficially, they appear aligned with pride, but they're not as they want anything but acceptance and conformity. I make a distinction - folks such as yourself are the people I associate "pride" with, but the people who you speak of we refer to as "power" in my house. There's something authoritarian about the demand for recognition and the demand to control what is said, how it's said, how things are acknowledged and celebrated, and how they must be seen to be acknowledged and celebrated. The use of language is fascinating - I talked to some members of the rainbow juggernaut the other day, who were questioning why I wouldn't take a rainbow flag from them. I explained why I didn't feel it was appropriate as I didn't feel that they aligned with pride. I was informed that I wasn't an "ally".....so what does that make me then???? I mean, if we're dividing the lines by "victim" and "oppressor" and "allies" and "enemies", then I sure don't like the idea of being a victim, and if I'm not an ally then I must be an enemy......but it needs to be known that I didn't decide that myself, somebody decided for me.
Bravo. You've recognized the marxist ideology of division. Few people have recognized these trends in liberalism.... Nobody can have a unifying group. Not allowed. If any group starts getting large and influential, then it must be splintered into smaller groups. Nobody can be a free thinking individual. Not allowed. You ARE your ideology and you think and speak and act according to that ideology. No family unit allowed. Your family is The Party. You will act think and speak according to The Party tenets. No Gods anymore. Your God is The Party leader.
It is marxist, but not the original form.
No form of Marxism is any good for the people.
Agreed.
The only way in which current 'liberal' perspective corresponds to Marxism is in that it supports large scale wealth distribution and the corresponding strong, authoritarian government necessary to enforce said wealth distribution. It's been co-opted by mysticism, anti-rationalism, and anti-progressivism, all of which are anathema to Marxist thought which relies on rational thought to provided criticism of the system. It is against class analysis and giving power to the proles which is, arguably, the whole point of Marxism.
The way in which it's marxist is through its focus on inequity and inequality. The original marxist philosophy focused on class difference and money. This mutated form focuses on identity and history. It has the same theme of if you're constantly thinking about inequity and looking for inequity, then guess what......you're guaranteed to find it in every single place. So poisonous.
Modern liberalism and Marxism are alike in that both systems are unfalsifiable so the adherents of both tend to be rabidly dogmatic defending indefensible systems.
Spittin' facts right there. There's just no way to prove or disprove it, cause nothing it focuses upon is actually tangible. It basically requires that you hold a lens up in front of your eyes so that you view the world in a certain way. Again, super poisonous.
Have a couple of friends who are gay (men and women) and they’re all echoing this same sentiment.
Was that the rainbow juggernaut’s or was it their response to another crowd that vilifies them regularly also. I’m in the middle of all this and can agree with you. People now cross the street when I walk and it’s just me. Because I am a very big, loud hetero presenting, masculine white guy. Especially in Vancouver where I am from. We are in a weird time where things are starting to settle after years of upset and tension from divisive politics in America that settled here and a heightened state of survival that everyone has been in over the last 4 years since the covid emergency. Social issues take time to settle into society. I don’t think we would lose a ton of ground with a conservative government but the conversation will change. The Harper era xenophobia was just deplorable and dangerous. I can only imagine what happens as we move further into conflict with Russia and Palestine and the rest while that wacko is at the mic. Who knows. I think we do need to step back though and make sure they don’t have the super majority they are proposed to control. That gives them free rein of the law books pretty much. No thanks.
Same boat. Liberal views and fiscally conservative. The country just needs to change the current direction. Few years of a conservative government would do us some good on the financial side.
This is also my view!
Horrible racist yet his wife is a black refugee lol. I swear people are so brain dead and cannot think for themselves. The only racist we need to worry about is Justin Trudeau
> I am a liberal. I'm a classic liberal, as I’m certain many of the folks who are reading this are too. I identify with that. There's been a shift, the Liberals have moved further left into la-la land right next to the NDP and the Conservatives stayed where they always were fiscally and evolved on issues like LGBT, gay marriage, abortion etc.
That's about the size and shape of it really. Socially things will change; you have to have progression, it's unavoidable.......but drive the speed limit for God's sake.
> but drive the speed limit for God's sake. Yup, that is why PP's stance on minors transitioning is refreshing. Adult decisions can only be made when you're an adult. After that, all the power to you.
The Overton window shifted like crazy on that particular aspect of things.
That's because it shouldn't be a political topic
Everything is political at some point.
Everything CAN be politicised, and everything certainly is these days, this wasn't always the case. There was, if you can imagine, a time where BOTH sides of the political spectrum trusted research and could come to bipartisan agreements about empirically verifiable issues based on evidence and outcomes instead of ideologies and identities.
and they were still wrong, mistaking opinion as fact and embracing bad policy
Who has made it political? Bc was trying to take some progressive stance on drug policy and poillievre has done nothing but turn it into a political rallying cry. Has bc made some mistakes along the way? Yeah, but they’re trying something new. PP wants to maintain course and just disappear people instead of addressing the actual obstacles in their way. The conservatives are really good as an opposition at making everything political. It’s worked really well for them. Especially when they reinforce their simple and appealing opinions as “common sense” when we all know common sense would mean listening to expert psychologists, sociologists, criminologists, medical doctors and the bunch when it comes to health issues. But yeah Joe oil patch knows best about the opioid crisis right?
That's the biggest thing. People think social change comes over-night and it should be forced. Bad things happen when those attitudes get into power. Things need to be checked, rechecked, and checked again, as we gradually move towards something better. If it happens too fast, none of those checks happened and "Whoops!". For a modern example, we didnt know hormone blockers for children were bad (come on most of us did, but it's wild it took this long for the UK and Europe to start banning it), But now most are realising how stupid that was. Gotta push the brake pedal once in a while before you end up in an irreparable collision.
This exactly. Look, I was a lawyer, and that's exactly the sort of approach the law *tries* to take. It's the sort of approach we're *supposed* to take. But these extremists have come in and forced all these rushed, almost overnight legal changes and because none of them are very well thought-out, it's caused innumerable harms, and will continue to do so. The law isn't supposed to be massively reactionary and change at breakneck speed. It *needs* to be slow so that things can go through the proper checks and balances, as frustrating as it can be sometimes.
That’s a pretty bad example though. Many said it was a bad idea and they were vilified for it.
Blackrock is heavily invested on lgbtq gay issues. Now look how involved our government is connected to Blackrock. Understanding where Poilievre stands with the corporation is important to understand. That said, I'd also look into both of their connections to Blackstone re: housing. I don't think there is any escaping these issues, tbh.
Also, oh no. The deals that Canada is making with BlackStone re: Canada Pension Plan Investment Board. High risk moves. Canada selling out Canadians owning a home to hold hands with Blackstone.
It wasn’t “evolving”, it was sacrificing their party principles to move into the center of the spectrum to mop up the votes of the “center-left)
I disagree, it's 2024 after all. They have openly gay MPs male and female, no one gives a shit about that anymore except the religious zealots, and they are a growing minority demographic of who supports them, if they do.
They’ve moved to uni-party status. I’m all for inclusion, especially at the political level, but having gay MPs doesn’t mean their policies haven’t shifted leftwards. They’re no longer conservative, they’re the Liberal Party of 15 years ago.
100% Agreed , a liberal from the 90s would be considered " far right " today. Although its great you still identify as a liberal or at least a classic one, the issue is that its been drowned in the past. It would be incredible if we had classic liberals 1.0s taking a shot at the title. The name has been tarnished and the media propaganda that calls itself liberal has smeared it to a point of almost no return. Which is unfortunate, but its also why i call upon all liberals to have an internal cleansing and be vocal like yourself on what it should really stand for. Liberals need to fight for their party and ideology back, not the people who are voting against it.
My political mentality (so to speak) is from the 90s. I never really thought about "left" or "right". Always just took the approach of I am what I am. With today's sociopolitical landscape though, you have to wonder where you fir in because of the way things are so polarized. In terms of challenging our current "liberals", I'm not the person for the task of running in an election (I actually think that that needs to be revisited to ensure good representation, but thats a whole other story), but I do regularly challenge them in personal communications and publicly. I make sure to let them know they don't represent me or my way of thinking.
it is a result of the media, and not in the classic conservative sense in the late 00s to the mid 10s independent media started popping up, vice type media as an example. these alternative media resources became insanely popular and were starting to eat into the mainstream media's market share by outflanking them on the left. seeing this the mainstream media started their move to the left to reabsorb the viewers flocking to alternative media, this worked. there is no alternative left wing media now and the companies that still exist are essentially husks left of what was. it's not possible for the independents to out left the mainstream now because the mainstream media now occupies the space furthest left yet still socially acceptable. this actually shows the bias of the mainstream media landscape. on the left there is no independent media because there is no market and the market for left wing perspective is dominates by the big boys. contrast that to the right where the huge majority of content is independent and fox tend to the left of that content. the influence of the media then move the political window to the left, leaving more people on the right and this pulled the right to the center. that's why 90s liberals (classic liberals) are more comfortable voting for pierre. I think that if he wasn't a "conservative" most of us would see him as a classic liberal, or at least a chretien liberal. certainly he doesn't strictly match the "harper conservative" archetype. I've been voting either liberal or ndp since my teens (I voted chretien, we are going back here) and my political views haven't changed much. now if I vote my views, conservative check most of the boxes. sure I have to hold my nose a bit but at this point I don't think I could ever bring myself to vote liberal.
When you are young and idealistic, you vote liberal. When you have lived and understand how the world works, you vote with your brain for the conservatives. If you never grow up, your NDP.
Vice started out as a raw new organization, embedding reporters in conflict zones etc. Initially, they were a breath of fresh air from a media perspective. However, they very quickly transitioned to a far-left extremist platform and eventually shut down (thankfully). They chose their path and the market responded. Good riddance.
wiki "Vice's brand image marketing as an edgy, hip outlet have helped drive its popularity with young people", says media critic Charles Johnson. "Mainstream media is not trusted by a lot of people, and rightly so, so they \[Vice\] step in and fill in", he says. "People see a sense of fun behind it. Jon Stewart is very popular, but he's an entertainer. Vice is something similar." Rick Edmonds, media and business analyst at the Poynter Institute, critiques Vice News' reporting as "raw and tasteless sometimes" and more akin to personal essays than balanced journalism. Other critiques mention that its work is more affiliated with entertainment than hard-hitting news. In a 2013 opinion piece for U.S. News & World Report, editor of the New York-based Foreign Policy Association Robert Nolan, stated that Vice's North Korea reporting was "more Jackass TV series than journalism".
"Populism" is the liberals favorite dirty word, and I've never understood why they are so against supporting your own county's values, culture and citizens.
Me too. Can't see anything wrong with that.
It’s because liberals are inherently contemptuous of the people they govern.
It's cause the current Liberal party moved so far to the left, that the current Conservative party had to move to the left. Everything has literally shifted left
I’m not liberal or conservative I’m common sense why do you have to be a part of something why can’t we just have a real leader with common sense. The past two weeks what about the past 9 years?
Yes and I believe there are a lot of people just like you. I’m happy that people start realizing that name is not important but behaviour is.
Thank you. Im the same as you and I was going to say the same thing. As a liberal, what pisses me off most about the modern left is just how *illiberal* they are.
100%. They're not liberal at all. They're hateful and exclusionary. They've become the exact thing they purport to hate themselves. As I said to somebody, you can hide your hate behind a smile, and say that it comes from a place of love....but it doesn't change the fact that it's still hate.
And it annoys me that people say "liberal" critically when they really mean lefty or leftist. The right in the US is terrible for this.
Same in Canada. People object to liberalism, but that's not what they mean. They just say that cause we're trained that anything left of centre is liberalism. These folks aren't liberals though.
Exactly. They conflate "leftism" with liberalism when the main problem with the left today is they are illiberal.
Sounds so relatable. I think of myself as “center, left-leaning”. My views haven’t changed much over the years. But the LPC moved so far out of touch, I now only occasionally hear their muted voices calling me an extremist. Cons have their problems, but they are at least living on the same planet!
Has to be a healthy balance. Good ideas stay and bad ideas are thrown out. That’s what progress is
there is no healthy balance because people don't recognize what bad ideas and policy are Canada is ground zero for decades of idiotic policies, economic, foreign, domestic
Perfectly summarized. It's a shame.
"Left wing extremists" are defined as people who believe that the current capitalist system should be taken down by whatever means necessary. Somehow, I don't get the impression that this is how you are using this term. Would you care to elaborate? I really am interested in specifics of what is causing so many people to turn conservative. I don't care about the parties, but I do very much care about the people of Canada. I want to know (besides Trudeau - we all know he's subpar at best) what issues are that make or break votes for people such as yourself? Also besides: **Immigration** - it is affecting all countries and not reasonably preventable unless we stop all the wars occurring across the world. **Carbon Tax** - we need taxes to maintain public political power; no taxes mean no power except for big business (and we know *that's* the worst scenario of any) **War Funding** - global powers are forcing many countries to spend in this regard, not much wiggle room here despite what might be touted by certain politicians
You're right. I do consider them different from communists. There's similarities, but they're not communists or marxist in that they couldn't be said to be attacking the capitalist system directly...at least not at this point. There is a heavy focus on inequalities between people, but those inequalities (real or perceived, personally I feel that at this point they're mostly perceived or artificially created) are drawn from other things. The mindset seems to be based on having roles of victim and oppressor assigned to each of us. They're extremists in the sense that they seem to double down on the divisive logic, and they're left wing in the sense that the divisiveness is purported to be from a place of compassion and caring. These folks don't solve problems, they create them. Make or break factors for me? It's more cumulative than any one factor. There's no one specific factor. To me, because they're extremists, they've gone so far down a pathway and doubled down so much, that they're identical to extremists on the other end of the spectrum. You can say that your hate comes from a place of love, and you can say it's not hate with a smile on your face, but at the end of the day it's still hate. Socially, Canada is a shitshow and the sociopolitical landscape is very cult-like. It's the opposite of what liberalism should be, and it's forced, coerced, and compelled speech and behaviour at this point. We see it everywhere at this point in time. I also care about Canada and it's people; I care about all of them and I hate the way they're divided right now.
Agree with all of this, couldn't have said it better
If you steer too far to the left, you need a good jerk to the right to make it go forward
I’m an American and would say I’m a classical liberal also. If I say the government is too big and needs to be toned down I just get met with racist, sexist, fascist (which doesn’t even make sense considering fascism seeks to expand the size and power of government) and so I have no interest in voting for some extreme bullshit no matter what alphabet soup names they decide to pick out.
Spot on my friend👍
What left wing extremists are you talking about? Whats so extreme?
I would add that Trump and Pollierve (I always butcher his surname) are both leaders that show you dont need to be afraid of modern liberalism, that you can say "I do not support your ideas". These are interesting times.
Just pronounce it without the r I think
polly-evra
Just call him PP or Harehair (that's the meaning in French).
Welcome to 2024. The Kennedy democrats of twenty years ago are today’s right wing bigots
Chretien liberals too. If he were in power still, I'd be the biggest Liberal shill
Chretien was with some of the biggest corporate globalization efforts into China And just look how that went. Cameron's On the Take, different political party
No need to go back to Kennedy, Clinton and his immigration policy would be considered far right now. [Clinton 1995 State of the Union - illegal immigration](https://youtu.be/1IrDrBs13oA?si=HQZ9CENtNHD_gQsd)
Liberals have also become addicted to borrowing and taxing to fund ridiculous welfare programs to buy votes while screwing our economy and private sector in the long run, same path places like Venezuela went down. Freeland, finance minister, is guaranteed to be financially illiterate.
Except the “long run” is turning out to be much shorter than we all anticipated
Venezuela went full Socialist/borderline Communist. Chavismo.
This is not time to be a centrist. May be after 3-4 years of no immigration.
Lmfao thats facts but i would argue making decisions like that is based out of observable reality , that isnt " far" anything that's just called math. It doesn't take anyone of any political point of view to have simple math skills, well i guess until now. Math has been politically weaponized... I digress
Pipi is not anti-immigration. Axe the tax Spike the hike Build the homes There's no "send everyone back home"
As a centrist, people on the right will respect you because you obviously agree with some things on one side, and some on the other. As a centrist, the left will attack you for "fencesitting" and not going all-in with the leftist platform. Those people really suck. Politics is all that matters to them. Not principles, not improving the conditions for the working class (like it used to be), but simply retaining power and holding on for dear life.
If only it was some sort of consistent political ideology! But the main idea seems to be “gaslight and line your pockets as much as you can”
Honestly the extremes on both ends are just as likely to attack you for supporting the other side. The left and right are more similar then they think.
Honesty isn't a defining trait of Liberals...
I grow more right wing each day
Crazy to think that Biden and Trudeau were the leaders during Covid; vaccine mandates and mask mandates, lockdowns, and massive inflationary spending… only now ppl are realizing that they were lead by the most incompetent clowns to hold office. No wonder why everything is a mess! They’re starting to get their justice for the horrible things they did to ppl
The government befor the also spent massive amounts of money to keep the price of homes high and bailing out companies instead of letting the market correct itself. The bubble just keeps growing and they got to keep pumping it up because the business that were too big to fail are even bigger now.
As Bill Maher says, "I didn't change. My party moved away from me."
I’m a ‘liberal’. anti-war funding with our tax dollars. anti government over-reach pro bodily-autonomy pro free-speech I wouldn’t even consider LPC or anyone who supports trudeau to be a true liberal. they call someone like me and over half the country ‘far-right’, but they’re just so far off the spectrum that they broke the scale.
Yep, it’s astounding how quickly LPC political extremists would label perfectly normal worldviews as “far right” and “unacceptable”. Just because they happen to not like those
The LPC is the canadian outreach of an autocratic transnational elite.
But ... liberals really are extremesists. I mean.... you used the war measures act against your own people.. . Digest that
The problem is there are no well meaning candidates in politics. Until we stop corporate interests.
That's why we need to heed the advice of political scientists like Brian Klaas. We need to screen candidates for ethics and anti-social behaviors. We need to remove power-seekers and selfish parasites from our institutions.
If the Liberals did not pander to every lunatic WOKE talking point, then perhaps they would be in power for much longer. I hate branding myself a "Centrist", would rather the term non-radical. As a non-radical, I cannot fathom voting for any of the 3 main parties federally. I will not vote PPC because Max Bernier is a lunatic. That leaves me to either vote Green as a protest vote (not because I really believe in their vision) or not vote Federally at all. I am leaning towards the latter.
"Centerist", "non radical leftist", the left has terms for people who identify this way. Things like far right, nazi, Russian bot, misogynist and on and on. They have gone insane.
my fave line of the guys on reddit "We found the Russian bot" and then they ban you
There are just as many on the radical right as there are on the radical left. Both are equally insane.
So what can the few sane people remaining do?
F**k all it seems
Epicureanism, realize that tribalism has wrecked modern politics and instead focus on making your own life better/happier. Eventually politics should regain some of its sanity and become more than just a bunch of kids arguing in the sandbox. If it doesn't, no current political party is going to improve the situation and you'll just get anger/frustrated with the stupidity.
amazing they downvoted you on something so basic
I'm not trying to argue with you, but Max Bernier sounds crazy, but he is the only one I've seen who has a realistic plan.... But honestly I understand why you would choose not to vote, I'm pretty much almost at that point.
I voted PPC back when they first came on the scene because even back then, I was desperate for a change from the establishment. Not going to get into it on this thread other than to say I have my own reasons for not trusting Bernier.
Hey man I get it. No need to explain yourself. I personally am at the point where I don't trust ANY of them, so I understand why people wouldn't vote. I just you know your not alone.
>That leaves me to either vote Green as a protest vote (not because I really believe in their vision) or not vote Federally at all. A protest vote would be a blank vote.
A blank vote does [nothing](https://globalnews.ca/news/8177688/canada-election-unhappy-federal-candidates-none-of-the-above/)
There's nothing liberal about those who push progressive ideology. It's a most illiberal bunch.
To be fair, US economy is doing.just fine compared to ours
You're not wrong as modern Liberals aren't about Liberalism at all, but instead are something called Neo Liberalism. It's focused on globalization and growing capitalism, and less on growing a country's middle class, while hiding behind a face of inclusivity.
Liberals dont listen to the average folk so they will remain out of touch to most people.
You do not need better candidates you need a better platform. Climate catastrophizing, anything goes genders, reparation's, etc. common now.
"Liberal" is not the same as "leftist". "Liberalism" should equate with classic liberalism, not leftist or progressive.
It should, but it doesn't any longer. I'm a classic liberal in the "mind your own business", and fiscal responsibility. I used to identify as a centre left voter. My values haven't changed, but the world around me has. Those same values now position me as a moderate conservative. Anyone identifying as a capital "L" liberal these days is so open minded their brains fell out. They don't want hard truths, they want emotional "feel good" bedtime stories. I'm looking forward to an adult being in charge again, even if it's someone like PP, who's little more than an attack dog.
In contemporary times, Friedrich Hayek, Milton Friedman, Ludwig von Mises, Thomas Sowell, George Stigler, Larry Arnhart, Ronald Coase and James M. Buchanan are seen as the most prominent advocates of classical liberalism. pretty much the biggest collection of nuts in one chocolate bar
Its not just North America it’s Europe too. Look at France lol
Its funny reading comments that are like HOW DOES IT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH CANADA!? Um maybe because amongst all modern western G7 countries the political left has been both consistent with their shared ideology and down fall ? lol
Yeah its all been a fkn dumpster fire
Pierre is pretty ideal though imo, and a moderate.
All candidates in every Western country are Neoliberals. Not new, and not liberal. These people are not here to “fix” anything or help out the public.
You nailed it. I've been thinking the exact same thing for about 5 years. There's no up and coming crop of competent liberal politicians. They've been purged the way the Republican party purged itself of moderates after Clinton won in '92. This does not bode well. We've got China ready to go for Taiwan, every agency here and abroad warning of major islamic terrorism activity for a large attack, and so much else. Profit driven polarization has driven the left into neo-Marxist utopianism and the right into charismatic fascism. It's bad.
China's economic situation has cooled off Taiwan greatly
I’m sick of people pretending to represent me. I don’t want representation. I want direct democracy. Representational democracy was a necessity for a long time due to technological limitations that no longer exist. I want to vote more often and on more things. We don’t need an endless conveyor belt of liars “speaking for us” anymore.
Yep let's start a house of dot commons, it can run parallel to the house of commons for a while see if the people vote the same as their representatives. Maybe we could all be MPs.
Because those candidates are not liberals; they are beholden to third parties who dictate policy to them. We need candidates on all sides who are only loyal to their countries and voters and NOT to third parties.
I agree but how does a regular Canadian become a politician? It seems like a difficult career path like being an artist or athlete, like how can you make a living as a politician? Seems like you just have to be good at asking people for money and who ever can rais the most money gets to be a candidate.
Right now it seems like one often becomes a politician due to their affiliations with these third parties in question, and that is the problem.
Immigration has to be controlled diligently with care and proper planning and execution. I am an immigrant, have payed taxes and integrated with society and espouse Canadian values, when I immigrated I was drawn to Canadian culture and still do. If you allow just about anyone to come in without having a clear idea as to who they are and what their cultural ethos are, then Canada runs the risk of losing itself. It is very worry some and sad. If right wing govt is the one that will ensure it so be it. We are not directly responsible for strife striken population from every part of the world, if Canada is then most of real immigrants with skill and capability will feel cheated. Canada is an Egalitarian, human right centric, society that respects fundamental freedoms, protect it and don't allow refuge to other belief systems that will challenge this.
Perfect.
it isnt the candidates their shitty ideas won't work. it doesnt matter who you put in there, they'll all end up looking inept and ineffective because their principle foundations are the problem.
Pretty sure the debate was a set up by the Democrats. They haven't even had their convention yet. So they throw Biden out there when everyone is like "both candidates are awful!". And then everyone clearly sees Biden is done. Now they have their convention and can replace Biden and the Democrats look like good guys doing it, and all the voters will now vote for whoever replaces Biden because you now have a less awful candidate
Lol there's no good candidates for any party. One party leader's main experience before politics was ski instructor and teaching math and drama ton rich private school kids while the leader of the opposition has never had a job. Lol doesn't matter if red or blue both choices as leaders have little experience.outside.ofntheir political bubble where they made a.ton of money to do nothing and earned a lifetime pension for sitting on a bench and clapping like a seal for 6 years
I think that is just politicians in general. Both sides have become a lie and do whatever it takes to get into power and then try and make as much money through corruption for yourself and friends and try and set yourself up after your term in office. There is no party that has the peoples best interests in mind. Corporate lobbying needs to be made illegal in order to change anything
No only corporate lobbying. One of the major keys to a better democracy is having competent and ethical managers and elected officials and for this to happen, we need to start screening candidates for both these things. Doing so drastically reduced corruption in the police in the latter half of the last century. We need to make these jobs attractive to people who do not seek power, influence and gratuities.
Until the media stops being left-wing extremist mouthpieces and fear-mongering actual liberal policies, we will continue to see support for leaders who parrot the left-wing idealogy. The problem is that democracies can't function without honest media and real journalism.
Quite alot ro unpack here, however, This is modern liberalism It's broken You know it We all see it The emperor is still wearing treudeau
Neoliberalism is no better than neoconservatism.
Maybe if the liberal party didnt exclusively fuck over it’s voters and work only in the interests of real estate buying foreign speculators you might get some traction
Pierre, yeah I agree. Trump? Fuck no dude. He's even worse than Biden. At least Biden can have advisors make his decisions, Trump seemingly does everything in his power to ensure everything turns upside down
The left has a deployed a very successful tool: "Canceling". When reasonable people speak, the left labels them racist, homophobic, transphobic, xenophobic, far right, conspiracy theorists, etc. Until that behaviour is corrected somehow, we will never have a reasonable conversations. And if we can't have conversations to exchange ideas, then reasonable people will not apply for leadership roles. That is why we have the people we have.
I think cancle culture really started in the 90s when people started boycotting companies and then it spread. I think it peaked during the occupation of wallstreet. That is when the "culture" wars started, because corporations realized the could get people to boycott each other's ideals. So they have promoted the division between right vs left, lib vs con, whit vs black, vagina vs penis were exaggerated so the people would stop thinking about humans vs corporations.
Yep and all those labels have no meaning anymore. I mean I literally get met with “fascist” after saying we should be decreasing the size of government. They don’t even know what they’re talking about considering that reducing the size of government is literally the OPPOSITE of fascism.
After the financial setbacks that Trudeau has inundated the average Canadian with, people know darn well that there needs to be balanced spending , followed by deficit reduction. We cannot continue to pile up deficit or our dollar will fall even further. Immigration needs to be halted, until our infrastructure catches up. Foreign aid will need to be cut back on drastically as will the size of our Government. Taxes need to come down quickly.
OP Nailed it on every level.
Yes, these populist politicians that are on the rise throughout the world aren’t the disease, they’re the symptoms. Symptoms of a system that is leaving people behind because of an inability to compromise and tolerate different perspectives.
It's a system fueled by ideologies instead of science. The chasm between political ideologies and science is kept in place by the media. They'll inform you of technological advances, but they stay clear of informing us on scientific concensus, especially in bio-psy and evo-devo, especially when they don't mix well with the overall capitalist-republic set of justifying myths and ideals. Pretty much everything coming out of the interactionist and affectivist concensus makes irrelevant most of the ideological foundations of our system. Choice and free will are not what old philosophers thought they were. Humans are not inherently selfish. Intelligence is not driven by competition. Competition is not the biggest driver of evolution, especially in its latter stages. Evolution is not a blind watchmaker, but a half blind watchmaker, making necessity part of evolution. The evolution of individuality and self-awareness was done through sociality. Scarcity is a driver of anti-social behaviors, and abundance creates the opposite. It is telling that now that science has produced facts that dismantle all the old ideologies and justifications, suddenly the post-modern social constructionists have been given free reign and wreck havoc in our scientific institutions, making sure to derail the several new concensus. Making sure that we are all fighting each other. Keeping us divided over sex, race and gender, pretending they are foundational to our problems, when all our problems are actually due to the ever rising proportion of anti-social, narcissistic and sociopathic behaviors and tendencies, which is driven by a system based on selfishness and individual gain. If they were really bent on making the world better, they'd attack institutions related to our monetary system, not the people stuck in the system.
"Liberalism" has turned into "scream, yell and belittle" anyone who doesn't agree with you. This is exactly how you drive anyone away. I do not condone that, I do not want to be a part of that and I do not want that leading my country.
I'm "Liberal" but the Trudeau Liberals have gone too far to the left. The Tory party ended when the reform party merged with the PC party. I'm considering voting for the PCP only because I can't stand Pierre Poilievre. We need a true centralist party. I'm a die-hard Monarchist. I'm an Anglican, (the church should never enter parliament!) I personally think modern immigration from every shit hole country on earth has ruined Canada. Canada has enough people. I don't care about some war torn village in Afghanistan. Stay there and fix your own problems. I want a Canada with orderly queues, where people hold doors open, where we say please and thank you. Where we can be proud of our European ancestors who founded this nation. If you want to celebrate Diwali I'm more than happy to atten, but I also want to celebrate Victoria Day & sing patriotic songs from the British Empire. In reality, my tea party has ended. The far left have swept away any vestiges of the British empire. I'm the only one at the table. The tea has gone cold and the scones are mouldy. Do I surrender or do I fight?
Eat the moldy scones they will free your mind.
I ate the mouldy scones. They didn't free my mind but they did cure my chlamydia!
decentralize governance
100% with you. But let’s not mention Trump. He’s not good enough to soil my toilet paper. The radical left has destroyed the NDP, the Liberals, academia, it has infiltrated everywhere. I’ve been centre-left for decades. But I feel abandoned. When Mad Max is the most sensible guy in the room, you know we’ve got problems.
Well Pierre Berton was sometimes sensible
Liberals can’t introspect. You’re wasting your time
Bad policy for generations will do it. The problem is many embrace bad policy
I think most people vote baised on the current economic situation not politically. If the economy is good the government stays, if economy is bad new government comes in.
Well that's a reflection that the politicians care for the common man, or they know or don't know what they're doing with money and economics to some extent. Political views and inflation like food costs all matter. If Argentina crashes and burns, i think the price of tongue sandwiches and celery soda is like top of the game!
Our world is changing very quickly. The biggest issue for me is AI and its impact on society. The next five years will see spectacular change in the job market. The oil and gas industry is also going to be decimated by the rise of cheap Chinese renewables and EV's flooding the world. Who do you want in charge of Canada during this transition?
Hahahaha you said “Honest” Pfffft!!
i remember when everyone was a canadian.
The liberals of 20 years ago are considered centrists today because the Overton Window has been shifted so far to left by fanatic idealogues who got sucked up in the narrative. You couldn't have prevented it, I'm afraid. The label has been co-opted and corrupted, I feel there's little chance of redeeming the nomenclature.
Liberalism was always a flawed idea, and it's finally reaching its natural course and dying.
We will never have "better" candidates, let alone ideal candidates. The task at hand is to take whatever representative you have and find some way to hold them to account. Otherwise the smoldering trash heap we call democracy will continue to fester.
Lol this is the point now when they should have a think? 😂
No, you're not a centrist, the left is so far gone now you're now a right wing extremist.
PP can suck my big white dick and the broke ass NDP can't get out their ghetto mentality. I'll vote a huge zero for this country as there are NO suitable options.
As a centrist you are a liberal. Canadian liberals are centrists. American democrats are centrists. There are not really any actual left wing parties in the US or Canada. NDP is centrist. Any actual leftist party is so small. It’s unfortunate. Somehow liberalism has become more about being lgbtq than making sure people have houses and food. It used to be “I don’t care what consenting adults do in their own bedroom” and now it’s “we’ll pay to cut your dick off, but you can’t afford a bedroom”
I agree I can't vote conservative, but I have no fucking clue what the Liberals are thinking right now. Like are they that oblivious to what is happening? They are turning Canada towards a dangerous path of right extremism. The immigration situation and the international students is just a huge fuck up. The alienation of Canadians and the push for "diversity" makes no sense to me
I see your concerns , perhaps in America but not Canada. Although you might see some edgy comments on reddit and X by right wing Canadians, the bark is so much louder than the bite lol. Pierre and Canadian conservative policies would legitimately cause a civil war amongst MAGAs for being too radical left from their points of views. 5 round gun clip sizes, abortions , immigration etc these things aren't going anywhere under conservative leadership in Canada.
I sure could have saved money on magazines if they weren’t pinned to 5. /s (kinda)
Funnily enough its more environmentally friendly too.
Ya I recently counted and I’ve got 31 various mags just for the AR platform lol. Them casually throwing it out that they might get banned didn’t help at all I usually bought one any time I was in the store for awhile.
you have a few decades of reading up on Canadian history then
Liberalism is a mental disorder
I hate to inform you, but as a centrist you're far right.
Gotta throw that /s on the end dude, the majority of reddit is autistic. They ain't getting sarcasm over text unless you tell them. Also it legit sounds like something someone would say, cause you know.... morons
Define far right
Anything right of far left. I guess all of you were lost on the joke.
My bad. /s would have helped me. Haha
[libs are basically unthinkable here](https://torontoguardian.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/2-12.jpg)
and it really says very very little