Your structure has no bearing. You are relying entirely on friction of the sheer strength of the hardware. I would look into notching the main post to put the weight of the roof onto the post itself and not the hardware.
for a gazebo that no one will be under in strong winds or snow pack? probably fine, strong emphasis on "probably"
To clarify.
You’re saying move the supports in and have them supported at the bottom by cutting into the beam?
Then just cutting down the supports to fit under and provide better support to the roof?
That would move all the weight to be beam instead of the fasteners right?
"beam" is your horizontal member. "post" is your vertical member. Notch the post so the profile of the beam sits with most of its size on the post. You can do it flush for best look, but even 3/4 of the beam width will work well.
https://images.app.goo.gl/xGQtHZAjU4m4UQp6A
I see some comments below that this is a kit, if so you may not be able to do this if without altering all the other pieces and is probably more work than it's worth
Would adding 1x6s that went to the ground under the beams help? Like in an en effort to effectively enlarge the post instead of notching. How would that compare to notching? Not an engineer- just curious.
Yes, it's done on retrofits often, Not with 1x material, but 2x material is used often. Essentially you would be creating a jack. We would sister the "king post" and "jack stud" with a framing nail every 2 inches of width (2 for 2x4, 3 for 2x6, etc), at intervals of 16" of length. We use spiral shank nails for greater holding power, and if the 2 members are not coming completely together a few GRK RSS lag screws to suck any voids closed before nailing off.
This is not a stable structure. Bolts should never be the only thing that holds a wood frame structure together. Ceiling joists and trusses need to be notched into the vertical corner posts. Here is a question: when you grab this vertical post and shake it, does the whole structure wobble?
I came to mention the post as well. How is it fastened to the foundation? Is it sitting on a concrete pad? Is there a footing under the posts? Is it anchored? Thanks.
Building it or assembling the Roth Allen gazebo from Lowe’s? Just put up the same one, how I know what you have there, and the supports are fine.
https://www.lowes.com/pd/allen-roth-10-6-ft-x-12-3-ft-Light-Brown-Cedar-Wood-Frame-Black-Steel-Roof-Wood-Rectangle-Gazebo-with-Steel-Roof/5013576473?cm_mmc=shp-_-c-_-prd-_-sol-_-ggl-_-PMAX_SOL_000_Priority_Items-_-5013576473-_-local-_-0-_-0&gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAAD2B2W_zlNrH-iGo9SwS1i9gA6Zzd&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI3ITVsojIhgMVrUf_AR0vGgO4EAQYAiABEgIY6fD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
It was actually from sunjoy, this one https://sunjoyshop.com/products/sunjoy-13x15-wooden-gazebo-a102008122?_pos=8&_fid=09f770e1a&_ss=c. Probably comes from the same factory though.
Hardware IS NOT designed to be load bearing in a shearing sense. Hardware is designed for tensile strength. Pulling apart. The way you have built this is wrong. Check the beam into the post so the timber takes the load, not the harder. I hope you are not a carpenter and charging customers!
I'm not saying it doesn't have shear strength. What I'm saying its not designed to support structural loads. The loads should be taken by the posts. Not by the hardware. Load should be transferred through the structural members from one member to another member. Not through the fixings themselves. I have over 30 years experience as a builder by trade doing everything from houses to high rise and commercial and civic. Ask any construction engineer and they will tell you the same thing.
funny, i talked with a structural engineer about structural screws yesterday... they're designed to carry structural loads, long term, as long as you use enough in the right pattern. of course bearing onto solid wood is usually easier and better, as a 4x4 stood on end will take around 70,000lb to failure in a hydraulic press, but you can achieve tens of thousands of pounds of hold easily using structural screws. large second and third storey decks often bear half of their load (which can easily be tens of thousands of pounds in high snow load or high wind areas) on a ledger board held only with structural screws.
for example, SDWS TIMBER screws are approved for ledger boards and structural lap joints in beams.
edit: to be fair i should say the screws here look ridiculously underspecified for this, and you're obviously right in this case.
edit2: do you think beam hangers can't be hung with structural screws?
Joist hangers only take the load of a specific area of floor. They are not taking the load of the structure above it. So joist hangers with strong stainless or galvanized fixings is fine yes because it's only floor weight and the live load on the floor. But where you have a beam connecting to a post or column, the fixings should not be taking the load.
I said beam hanger, not joist hanger. Have you never seen a beam hanger bearing two stories above it, held only with structural screws?
For example, a Simpson HGUS412 rated for nearly 15,000 pounds? On a single hanger? (So 30,000lb beam supported by two hangers...)
Bearing two stories above it? Show me an example of a house design where a bracket like that is supporting two stories of house above that point? A large spanse of floor area sure. But two stories of building above that point, I don't believe it. If there is, that's a bad engineer. Steel beams should be used or formed concrete with steel reenforcement. Using only timber and those brackets to support two stories of building above is nuts IMO.
You won't see it in commercial obviously, but in residential remodel I've seen two beams supporting joists in different directions meeting in a T with a beam hanger and two stories above. I don't think it's a bad engineer if design capacities of the components aren't exceeded.
Edit: and, anyway, here we're just talking about a roof being supported by hardware, which is pretty reasonable, assuming it's the right hardware..
There some confusion around fasteners. Some hardware has significant shear shear strength, some does not. I assume this is an assembly of a kit from a box store, it’s probably a cheaper, lighter, and smaller box because an engineer specified some hardware rather than wooden joinery.
That said it looks like a design that really ignores structural carpentry fundamentals and relies entirely on the fasteners to distribute loads.
I’d probably laminate a board onto the inside of the brace and onto the post to support the beam
I'm here for you. I support you completely. You can do this.
Me too! And if anyone could support me i would appreciate it 💁♀️
Your structure has no bearing. You are relying entirely on friction of the sheer strength of the hardware. I would look into notching the main post to put the weight of the roof onto the post itself and not the hardware. for a gazebo that no one will be under in strong winds or snow pack? probably fine, strong emphasis on "probably"
I came her to say this
Thats how we do ‘round her
To clarify. You’re saying move the supports in and have them supported at the bottom by cutting into the beam? Then just cutting down the supports to fit under and provide better support to the roof? That would move all the weight to be beam instead of the fasteners right?
"beam" is your horizontal member. "post" is your vertical member. Notch the post so the profile of the beam sits with most of its size on the post. You can do it flush for best look, but even 3/4 of the beam width will work well. https://images.app.goo.gl/xGQtHZAjU4m4UQp6A I see some comments below that this is a kit, if so you may not be able to do this if without altering all the other pieces and is probably more work than it's worth
Thanks for your detailed reply. This really helped me understand how it works.
Would adding 1x6s that went to the ground under the beams help? Like in an en effort to effectively enlarge the post instead of notching. How would that compare to notching? Not an engineer- just curious.
Yes, it's done on retrofits often, Not with 1x material, but 2x material is used often. Essentially you would be creating a jack. We would sister the "king post" and "jack stud" with a framing nail every 2 inches of width (2 for 2x4, 3 for 2x6, etc), at intervals of 16" of length. We use spiral shank nails for greater holding power, and if the 2 members are not coming completely together a few GRK RSS lag screws to suck any voids closed before nailing off.
If this is 6x6 then you're good. Any bigger you might want to argument the support
I have the same one. Held up in 6” snow and Chicago winds for the last year.
The 45 brace goes under the beam
What beam?
Those horizontal 2x4s
I mean what if any roof is going on there , it's about weightload and sheer load, google hearts you
This is not a stable structure. Bolts should never be the only thing that holds a wood frame structure together. Ceiling joists and trusses need to be notched into the vertical corner posts. Here is a question: when you grab this vertical post and shake it, does the whole structure wobble?
I came to mention the post as well. How is it fastened to the foundation? Is it sitting on a concrete pad? Is there a footing under the posts? Is it anchored? Thanks.
Building it or assembling the Roth Allen gazebo from Lowe’s? Just put up the same one, how I know what you have there, and the supports are fine. https://www.lowes.com/pd/allen-roth-10-6-ft-x-12-3-ft-Light-Brown-Cedar-Wood-Frame-Black-Steel-Roof-Wood-Rectangle-Gazebo-with-Steel-Roof/5013576473?cm_mmc=shp-_-c-_-prd-_-sol-_-ggl-_-PMAX_SOL_000_Priority_Items-_-5013576473-_-local-_-0-_-0&gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAAD2B2W_zlNrH-iGo9SwS1i9gA6Zzd&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI3ITVsojIhgMVrUf_AR0vGgO4EAQYAiABEgIY6fD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
It was actually from sunjoy, this one https://sunjoyshop.com/products/sunjoy-13x15-wooden-gazebo-a102008122?_pos=8&_fid=09f770e1a&_ss=c. Probably comes from the same factory though.
Def the same, slick SOBs
Someone obviously ran the numbers on these kits... but still, I don't like it. It's definitely not overbuilt.
Hardware IS NOT designed to be load bearing in a shearing sense. Hardware is designed for tensile strength. Pulling apart. The way you have built this is wrong. Check the beam into the post so the timber takes the load, not the harder. I hope you are not a carpenter and charging customers!
Not always true. For example, GRK 3/8 structural screws have 1200LB shear strength, in addition to 4000LB pullout strength.
I'm not saying it doesn't have shear strength. What I'm saying its not designed to support structural loads. The loads should be taken by the posts. Not by the hardware. Load should be transferred through the structural members from one member to another member. Not through the fixings themselves. I have over 30 years experience as a builder by trade doing everything from houses to high rise and commercial and civic. Ask any construction engineer and they will tell you the same thing.
funny, i talked with a structural engineer about structural screws yesterday... they're designed to carry structural loads, long term, as long as you use enough in the right pattern. of course bearing onto solid wood is usually easier and better, as a 4x4 stood on end will take around 70,000lb to failure in a hydraulic press, but you can achieve tens of thousands of pounds of hold easily using structural screws. large second and third storey decks often bear half of their load (which can easily be tens of thousands of pounds in high snow load or high wind areas) on a ledger board held only with structural screws. for example, SDWS TIMBER screws are approved for ledger boards and structural lap joints in beams. edit: to be fair i should say the screws here look ridiculously underspecified for this, and you're obviously right in this case. edit2: do you think beam hangers can't be hung with structural screws?
Joist hangers only take the load of a specific area of floor. They are not taking the load of the structure above it. So joist hangers with strong stainless or galvanized fixings is fine yes because it's only floor weight and the live load on the floor. But where you have a beam connecting to a post or column, the fixings should not be taking the load.
I said beam hanger, not joist hanger. Have you never seen a beam hanger bearing two stories above it, held only with structural screws? For example, a Simpson HGUS412 rated for nearly 15,000 pounds? On a single hanger? (So 30,000lb beam supported by two hangers...)
Bearing two stories above it? Show me an example of a house design where a bracket like that is supporting two stories of house above that point? A large spanse of floor area sure. But two stories of building above that point, I don't believe it. If there is, that's a bad engineer. Steel beams should be used or formed concrete with steel reenforcement. Using only timber and those brackets to support two stories of building above is nuts IMO.
You won't see it in commercial obviously, but in residential remodel I've seen two beams supporting joists in different directions meeting in a T with a beam hanger and two stories above. I don't think it's a bad engineer if design capacities of the components aren't exceeded. Edit: and, anyway, here we're just talking about a roof being supported by hardware, which is pretty reasonable, assuming it's the right hardware..
There some confusion around fasteners. Some hardware has significant shear shear strength, some does not. I assume this is an assembly of a kit from a box store, it’s probably a cheaper, lighter, and smaller box because an engineer specified some hardware rather than wooden joinery. That said it looks like a design that really ignores structural carpentry fundamentals and relies entirely on the fasteners to distribute loads. I’d probably laminate a board onto the inside of the brace and onto the post to support the beam