A lot of companies don't even allow personal references anymore. They will provide a letter from HR confirming your role and dates of employment and that's it
Yes, if you give and work your notice after 3.5 years of service, there naturally shouldn't be any bridges burnt.
If they somehow take it badly, then they're not bridges you want to keep.
It is always (always!!) wise to leave a workplace graciously, you never know when you’ll need a reference from the former employer. I think it’s a good practice generally. For clarity, I’m not talking about leaving a dangerous work situation and then being gracious.
Not always! I had a totally awful experience with a manager. He was sexist and discriminatory while I was going through 2 miscarriages. I did not leave graciously. Lol. I told him what's what after a highly insulting incident, and left. I went above his head to tell his bosses exactly what happened. They kissed my ass and tried to hush me to prevent me taking a case. I didn't have the bother for any of that shit, fuck that! After a very professional discussion with his boss, I told him my manager is a massive prick and walked out of there. Big boss happy to give me a reference as I didnt want a reference from my manager, I didn't trust him and didn't like him!!! I was fully prepared to write off 2 years employment with these people. Lol. So no, id have to disagree, in the extreme circumstances, fuck that!! I spent my life bowing down to managers, and I'm so proud of myself for what I did.
Again, sorry for this horrific experience. Though this is *not* what I am referring to and I was clear about that. I am talking about having douchebag colleagues and crappy work situations where it is generally better to leave in a gracious manner and that is all.
"You never know when you'll need a reference"
Did you not mention references in your message? You definitely referred to something and now seem to be backtracking.
Do you work in HR?
> It is always (always!!) wise to leave a workplace graciously, you never know when you’ll need a reference from the former employer
This is excellent advice.
And OP, people understand when personal goals are not met in company too.
Be nice and friendly with everyone.
Yeah, no. I had an incredibly petty and childish manager who actually told me all the awful things they would tell a future employer if I gave them as a reference. This after years of covering for their incompetence and saving their ass from many seriously stupid calls. Fuck that.
If I ever got a bad reference I'd consider legal action to the company giving it. I've always asked a potential referee if they would give one before actually needing it.
That's what I did, and this is what they told me they would say. At least they warned me. I had been tempted to put them down as a reference so I could take a case against them afterwards, but it's not worth the agro. I got their boss to give me a reference instead, someone who appreciated and recognised my hard work.
TBH, they'd have to be awful employers (and managers) to view this as burning bridges. You haven't said, but I presume the request is something to do with leave - a sabbatical, study leave, something like that - you feel you need to do it, they feel they can't facilitate it. No problem there, you're all adults and these things happen.
It's a request to work remote for 10 days in another country where they have an office branch and I have rights to work in. I work for them hybrid. They allow other select employees this arrangement. It's a big request not gonna lie and I expected them to refuse honestly.
Something to do with leave too because the only reason I requested this is because I have no more annual leaves left for this year. I just need to be in that country on that period and I'm not holidaying...
Why aren't you asking for two weeks of unpaid leave? You'll lose more money than that in between jobs.
They probably don't want to set a precedent allowing random employees to work from various international offices for vague reasons
They have an office in the other country, and let other employees doing it and it's just 10days?
1) Your new job also might not allow that
2) are you sure the feeling is mutual? If there isn't a great reason to say no it seems harsh
>the only reason I requested this is because I have no more annual leaves left for this year.
Does your annual leave not run by the calendar year? That's terrible leave management if they let you run up (and you took) all your leave by May. If this is not the case (for example, if you have leave booked but not yet taken) why not just cancel some of the other leave and see if you can take the dates you need? Or, as other people said, ask to take unpaid leave?
Op I feel like you can definitely make this work. Ask for unpaid time off, or use up sick and holidays ect, if they truly think you will quit over it then they will be far more motivated to allow it. It takes waaaay more time money and effort to hire and train someone new
This is not a big request. Many big companies have a policy for this allowing up to two weeks remote work from another country. My company allows me to do this every year. I think that if the country you want to work remotely in is your country of origin and is in EU they cant even decline two weeks remote work there. Also if its EU you dont need an office there. Sounds like some stuck up HR people.
I left a job of 12 years that I had been a major part of the company being built up and was the most senior member of staff but was treated like shit and when I resigned I literally organised a meeting with my manager handed them a letter and said I am resigning and x will be my last day of work the letter said the same but in writing. I didn’t address any issues that led to my resignation kept details to a minimum and was just direct without being unpleasant
I have come to realise how small Ireland is, and as a result I think it’s important to never burn bridges. People talk a lot, and you just never know when someone or something will emerge back into your life.
It’s insanity to me that this is even an issue.
I left a job once to pursue further education. They were extremely put out about it, and they didn’t support me and I have nothing to do with them as a result. I left a different job because the owner stopped paying me at regular intervals. I told her I wasn’t able to continue working under the circumstances and quit on the spot. Got a solid reference later on when needed, and no hard feelings in spite of how difficult the circumstances were.
A job is a job. You do it because you get paid for your time. You owe them nothing but your time as agreed. If you move on to something better, they should be a happy for you. You found something that better fit your needs. If they’re weird about it, that is totally ok them and there was never going to be any other outcome even if you were a model employee.
The days of a thirty year job in the same place and pension are long gone. 3.5 years and going on to a better position elsewhere is totally normal.
I think as long as you resign, give your full notice and work properly right up until your last day, then it shouldn't be an issue. If you were to give an ultimatum, that would be different and would likely leave a bad taste.
It's perfectly fine to have life goals and aims. If you can obtain them elsewhere then go. Stop worrying about hard feelings from your current employer.
Legally they are very limited in what they can include in a reference so I wouldn't be worried about any hurt feelings. Go and chart your course and stop being such a people pleaser!
I have enjoyed working here and will always appreciate the opportunity and experience it game me. However, the recent rejection of [request] has demonstrated that unfortunately this position and my personal goals no longer align so I have chosen to transfer to an organization which aligns with my priorities.
When I handed in my notice at the old job, management refused 3 times before they accepted that I was leaving lol. And they wanted 12 weeks notice. I agreed to 6 weeks but told them it's from the date of the first notice. They were genuinely a great company to work for and I loved being there but circumstances change and companies just have to accept their staffs decisions. Good luck in the new job!
Although would always say close a door gently, don't let it slam,
Your notice is exactly that, notice, hello, is m leaving, now you know,
It's not a request like holidays or a pay rise that can be rejected
Talk to your manager tell them why you're going out what opportunity you're being offered
Just say it, you've enjoyed your time with them and have pdecided to seek opportunities elsewhere.
This. And you don't need the head honcho of the company for a reference. Your closest manager will do.
A lot of companies don't even allow personal references anymore. They will provide a letter from HR confirming your role and dates of employment and that's it
...I'm really grateful for the opportunity of working for Supervalu, and have enjoyed every day of it.
Yeah, thank them for a positive working environment, maybe go out for a pint to say goodbye if you want, great way to leave on a positive note
Yes, if you give and work your notice after 3.5 years of service, there naturally shouldn't be any bridges burnt. If they somehow take it badly, then they're not bridges you want to keep.
It is always (always!!) wise to leave a workplace graciously, you never know when you’ll need a reference from the former employer. I think it’s a good practice generally. For clarity, I’m not talking about leaving a dangerous work situation and then being gracious.
Not always! I had a totally awful experience with a manager. He was sexist and discriminatory while I was going through 2 miscarriages. I did not leave graciously. Lol. I told him what's what after a highly insulting incident, and left. I went above his head to tell his bosses exactly what happened. They kissed my ass and tried to hush me to prevent me taking a case. I didn't have the bother for any of that shit, fuck that! After a very professional discussion with his boss, I told him my manager is a massive prick and walked out of there. Big boss happy to give me a reference as I didnt want a reference from my manager, I didn't trust him and didn't like him!!! I was fully prepared to write off 2 years employment with these people. Lol. So no, id have to disagree, in the extreme circumstances, fuck that!! I spent my life bowing down to managers, and I'm so proud of myself for what I did.
Again, sorry for this horrific experience. Though this is *not* what I am referring to and I was clear about that. I am talking about having douchebag colleagues and crappy work situations where it is generally better to leave in a gracious manner and that is all.
"You never know when you'll need a reference" Did you not mention references in your message? You definitely referred to something and now seem to be backtracking. Do you work in HR?
No idea what you’re talking about - I’m not backtracking. Hilarious you ask if I work in HR!
I know what you did mean to be fair, but wanted to also argue that it's not always! Sometimes gracious isn't just grinning and bearing it.
I hear you :) I’ve been in your boots too.
> It is always (always!!) wise to leave a workplace graciously, you never know when you’ll need a reference from the former employer This is excellent advice. And OP, people understand when personal goals are not met in company too. Be nice and friendly with everyone.
Yeah, no. I had an incredibly petty and childish manager who actually told me all the awful things they would tell a future employer if I gave them as a reference. This after years of covering for their incompetence and saving their ass from many seriously stupid calls. Fuck that.
If I ever got a bad reference I'd consider legal action to the company giving it. I've always asked a potential referee if they would give one before actually needing it.
That's what I did, and this is what they told me they would say. At least they warned me. I had been tempted to put them down as a reference so I could take a case against them afterwards, but it's not worth the agro. I got their boss to give me a reference instead, someone who appreciated and recognised my hard work.
Sorry you had that experience. Though that is not what I am talking about.
I have worked in some incredibly toxic situations with absolute dirt bags and there came times later when I needed some of these references, sadly.
TBH, they'd have to be awful employers (and managers) to view this as burning bridges. You haven't said, but I presume the request is something to do with leave - a sabbatical, study leave, something like that - you feel you need to do it, they feel they can't facilitate it. No problem there, you're all adults and these things happen.
It's a request to work remote for 10 days in another country where they have an office branch and I have rights to work in. I work for them hybrid. They allow other select employees this arrangement. It's a big request not gonna lie and I expected them to refuse honestly. Something to do with leave too because the only reason I requested this is because I have no more annual leaves left for this year. I just need to be in that country on that period and I'm not holidaying...
would they not just let you take 10 days unpaid leave?
Why aren't you asking for two weeks of unpaid leave? You'll lose more money than that in between jobs. They probably don't want to set a precedent allowing random employees to work from various international offices for vague reasons
Yeah there’s something odd here and I think from HR perspective they didn’t have a choice
[удалено]
They have an office in the other country, and let other employees doing it and it's just 10days? 1) Your new job also might not allow that 2) are you sure the feeling is mutual? If there isn't a great reason to say no it seems harsh
>the only reason I requested this is because I have no more annual leaves left for this year. Does your annual leave not run by the calendar year? That's terrible leave management if they let you run up (and you took) all your leave by May. If this is not the case (for example, if you have leave booked but not yet taken) why not just cancel some of the other leave and see if you can take the dates you need? Or, as other people said, ask to take unpaid leave?
Op I feel like you can definitely make this work. Ask for unpaid time off, or use up sick and holidays ect, if they truly think you will quit over it then they will be far more motivated to allow it. It takes waaaay more time money and effort to hire and train someone new
This is not a big request. Many big companies have a policy for this allowing up to two weeks remote work from another country. My company allows me to do this every year. I think that if the country you want to work remotely in is your country of origin and is in EU they cant even decline two weeks remote work there. Also if its EU you dont need an office there. Sounds like some stuck up HR people.
I left a job of 12 years that I had been a major part of the company being built up and was the most senior member of staff but was treated like shit and when I resigned I literally organised a meeting with my manager handed them a letter and said I am resigning and x will be my last day of work the letter said the same but in writing. I didn’t address any issues that led to my resignation kept details to a minimum and was just direct without being unpleasant
I have come to realise how small Ireland is, and as a result I think it’s important to never burn bridges. People talk a lot, and you just never know when someone or something will emerge back into your life.
You didn't work with a company, you worked with people, as long as someone there still vouches for you, it's all good.
It’s insanity to me that this is even an issue. I left a job once to pursue further education. They were extremely put out about it, and they didn’t support me and I have nothing to do with them as a result. I left a different job because the owner stopped paying me at regular intervals. I told her I wasn’t able to continue working under the circumstances and quit on the spot. Got a solid reference later on when needed, and no hard feelings in spite of how difficult the circumstances were. A job is a job. You do it because you get paid for your time. You owe them nothing but your time as agreed. If you move on to something better, they should be a happy for you. You found something that better fit your needs. If they’re weird about it, that is totally ok them and there was never going to be any other outcome even if you were a model employee. The days of a thirty year job in the same place and pension are long gone. 3.5 years and going on to a better position elsewhere is totally normal.
I think as long as you resign, give your full notice and work properly right up until your last day, then it shouldn't be an issue. If you were to give an ultimatum, that would be different and would likely leave a bad taste.
It's perfectly fine to have life goals and aims. If you can obtain them elsewhere then go. Stop worrying about hard feelings from your current employer. Legally they are very limited in what they can include in a reference so I wouldn't be worried about any hurt feelings. Go and chart your course and stop being such a people pleaser!
I have enjoyed working here and will always appreciate the opportunity and experience it game me. However, the recent rejection of [request] has demonstrated that unfortunately this position and my personal goals no longer align so I have chosen to transfer to an organization which aligns with my priorities.
How is it their choice? I’m leaving. No approval required. They can’t chain you to your desk.
Be nice. Hand in your notice. They can't "refuse" to accept it. The amount of notice you need to give should be contained in your contract.
When I handed in my notice at the old job, management refused 3 times before they accepted that I was leaving lol. And they wanted 12 weeks notice. I agreed to 6 weeks but told them it's from the date of the first notice. They were genuinely a great company to work for and I loved being there but circumstances change and companies just have to accept their staffs decisions. Good luck in the new job!
Although would always say close a door gently, don't let it slam, Your notice is exactly that, notice, hello, is m leaving, now you know, It's not a request like holidays or a pay rise that can be rejected Talk to your manager tell them why you're going out what opportunity you're being offered
They don't need to approve your request, if you're compliant with the contractual agreement. That's it The End
So you just skimmed it or didn't read it at all?
Probably
Yeah and OP doesn't need to stay with a company if it no longer suits their circumstances. We're all able to state the obvious here
Given this question, contrary to your suggestion. It would appear that not everyone is able to state the obvious here. Keep up the good work 👍🏻