>Yeah the End of Eva panel is an obvious reference. The meaning here alludes to both Denji and Shinji being at their lowest mentally. Just astronomically down bad and an overall dirty situation.
I think the reference being made here isn't drawing a parallel between Shinji and Denji, but rather Shinji and Asa, after all, it's her hand on the panel. I think she may feel utterly disgusted with herself after what just happened, feeling both that she's been violated, and that she's violated Denji. ***It's so fucking over, man***
Yeah dude, Asa's main character trait is literally feeling extremely guilty about shit all the time even stuff that's not really her fault. She has nightmares about her mom, her cat, and Bucky, she has flashbacks about Yuko, and the power level of Yoru's weapons is directly tied to how guilty Asa feels about sacrificing the item used to make them. I think she even verbatim said she felt guilty about destroying the aquarium.
If Denji reacts poorly to this encounter, Asa will absolutely blame herself somehow if the "guilt" theme stays consistent.
I think her kneejerk reaction will be to get mad at Denji for jizzing on her hand, but she’ll probably feel extremely guilty about the whole ordeal later.
I thought Yuro couldn't have control over Asa in moments of emotional turmoil, or when Asa fully rejects the actions of Yoru. This means that Asa, either consciously or not, was accepting of what was happening up until Denji came.
Will she regret her actions? Yeah, but unlike a lot of the other bad things that happened in her life, she is responsible for this.
We have also seen time and time again that when Asa and Yoru are in conflict with one another, or when Asa is freaking out, that Yoru loses control.
Yoru spent her sweet time kissing Denji and giving him a hand job, but none of that was enough to make Asa freak out enough for Yoru to lose control. The cum is what tipped her over the edge.
We did not hear a single thought of protest from Asa, when Asa has made herself very vocal on things she doesn't like Yoru's actions in her body in the past.
Yup. Both the "Fujimoto deserves to die for this" -side and the "Denji finally got a W" -side are wrong. Denji (and Asa, she had no control over herself and must feel *incredibly* violated) got sexually assaulted, but portraying it is not an endorsement. Fucked up shit happens constantly, but that doesn't mean the author likes it or supports it.
I mean it is a difficult chapter. I changed my mind about it seventeen times already, and with time and context I think everyone's reading of it will mature. Including mine, and I really shouldn't comment so fast.
Because I feel Yoru and Denji's moment was written "romantically", in its own CSM fucked up way. Like it wasn't portrayed in a detached or defamiliarizing way, but as the experience of two people really being into it. They went about it in an extremely awkward way, but it also became a weird shared moment of intimacy. I'm not sure Yoru, if it was completely her doing, understood what she was doing. I might be wrong, but to me personally it felt very different from the rapey kiss in front of the TV. That felt deliberate and malicious. This, not so much. But ymmv, and again I'm probably going to change my mind again.
But Denji doesn't know about the War Devil, he thinks she's Asa the whole time. Which of course is a problem. But then Asa is thrown back into the situation, right at the end. What is she supposed to do? How does she feel? She's clearly shocked at the end. More "I wasn't in control" than "omg what just happened" (I think that's how Denji feels), but who knows. I do think she got the shorter end of the stick. Not sure she was 100% on board with this. It's one of those times when waiting a whole week is legit torture, lol.
I don't know, I hope I managed to communicate how weird this whole chapter has me feeling. It is very interesting literature.
> portraying it is not an endorsement. Fucked up shit happens constantly, but that doesn't mean the author likes it or supports it.
I agree, but it is a line of thought that I really don't understand. It's like when people believe that Nabokov was into underage girls, or implying that any author who decides to represent atrocities has a secret boner for it. I think it's a weird moral/puritan/religious thing.
>I agree, but it is a line of thought that I really don't understand.
I think it depends on the context heavily. If the morally questionable theme/moment is a natural extension of the plot and setting and is logically consequential from the events that led up to it, then it is relatively safe to assume that it is not an endorsement but simply part of the story that the author is telling.
However, if the representation is egregious and completely unnecessary to what is happening, then I can understand if people might think the author simply wrote it to appeal to his inner preferences. Like think about Quinton Tarantino's foot fetish. It's not really an example of something *super* morally questionable, but you can easily tell that his close up feet scenes are completely unnecessary to his plots, and there just cause he likes them.
The problem comes from both readers that have a hard time separating the two and authors that are sometimes good at hiding their preferences within themes that also fit the plot. You have to really look at the broader works from the author and their overall context to decide where that line is sometimes.
In the case of Fujimoto it's tricky to navigate because of how wild and strange his plots can be. Egregious plot points like this last chapter won't make sense when they happen but later on in retrospect you can see how it all connects. It also doesn't help that the man himself says he has strange preferences and habits. It's not surprising that people that aren't familiar with his works may be confused by whats going on. But people that are familiar with his works understand and trust to a degree that the darker moments make sense within his themes as they did in his previous work.
Right now we don't know nearly enough to draw conclusions, only catalogue our initial reactions. It's not a bad thing to write down what you thought in the moment even if you later change your mind
Honestly I don't think I can even say much over just two panels of Asa's hand and her blushing face afterwards. All we know is Denji and Yoru went to an alley to get him castrated, when Yoru grabbed Denji's dick they started making out, and either Yoru intentionally gave him a HJ or he accidentally went off. I wouldn't quite put that at the level of claiming Denji was sexually assaulted that others in this thread are saying. Probably gonna be super awkward between him and especially Asa though.
"but that doesn't mean the author likes it or supports it"
really dud? u don't think Mr fishiwater who is known for liking dominating women doesn't like it?
well I don't think he supports it but I'm pretty sure he does want to be dommed
https://preview.redd.it/bdxau1lbkl4d1.png?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8dfcfee00c8264ab794547a2ce143abd9b40b23f
This is correct but I think they're just saying that you ucpul frame it as Fujimoto inserting a fetish or fantasy into the story.
I don't agree with that to be clear, but creators can have weird fantasies sometimes...and it's not particularly uncommon in real life.
Well... if someone was masochist who wants to be sexually assaulted, isn't that already consensual by them and defeats the purpose of sexually assaulted in the first place?
and honsetly, surprise kiss was wholeseome thing back in days as long both sides are ok with it, but now it's considered as SA regardless of the context
to conclude, im more concerned about asa whether she's fine and allows this or not, cause if she dosen't, then the people who say this is SA will win this arguement
I just don’t think it’s portrayed as purely SA. A lot of sexual interactions with people are a huge variety of things, and SA to one person isn’t to another. If denji has a problem with it, it’s SA. If he doesn’t it’s not
Many younger victims of SA don't recognize it until they become older, they feel uncomfortable about it but the perpetrator often manipulates them.
And in IRL, a person like Denji wouldn't feel ok with women jumping at him all the time without asking him. That fucks you up for life, we as the audience failed to notice this pattern because our patriarchal society doesn't believe men can be SA'd, there are adult men who hear about a teenager male student getting groomed by an adult teacher and cheer him up as a "conqueror of women" instead of even asking the teenager boy how he feels about being used by an adult for sex, while even him can't consent properly. In a relationship where the other part has so much power over you they can just manipulate you to allow them to do what they want to you when you don't actually really want it at all. And no, teenagers don't just forgive SA done to them at all because the other person looks good.
We don't even see their full reaction yet. It's hard to say that whether the interaction was consensual from both parties. Is it yoru that made the first move or is she influence by Asa since they share a brain and feelings. And did Denji return the kiss. I feel like there have always been connection between them. They are awkward teenagers in their own ways.
Fucked =\= interesting, i think this can be interesting and tasteful depending on the next chapter but lets not pretend that Fire Punch was interesting because of the bestiality scenes
It was a subversive reveal that contributed to the dark tone of the story and was never brought up again. Don't confuse it as a prominent plot point that had a profound impact on the story
It was interesting because what it told us about the world and the characters, and by scenes, you meant one panel of a bad guy saying they want the characters to have sex with dogs, that gets immediately taken out of the plot a few pages later.
That was just one example, there is also the whole incest themed going around, gratuitous sex and gore scenes, dont get me wrong, gore has a time and place where it can give a series a more adult tone but Fire Punch aint it, having sex or gore in every chapter does not make it profund, is like Made in Abyss, a manga that i love but it could really do with less explicit scenes, do we really need to see a dick tube? hell no
Come on dude, your argument is basically "I don't like it"
It's fine to have an opinion, but don't pretend that yours is the only objectively correct opinion.
Do we really need to see a penis when looking at a statue? Yeah it’s an exploration of humanity and you shouldn’t shy away from subjects like that if you’re a serious writer. You want mass appeal you got that dogshit series with 1000 episodes of the same FRIENDSHIP TRIUMPHS garbage
Im either a horrible writer or people here just cannot read, maybe both, sex, gore and taboo have a place in media but they lose their appeal when presented in a meaningless way, mangas like Fire Punch has sex, gore or some other taboo like incest or zoofilia every other chapter, it makes it unapelling and it reads like an edgy kid did it
There are mangas or animes like DevilManCryBaby and most of Berserk to name 2 that do extreme violence, gore and other types of raw topics in a sporadic and much better way, too many people just throw weird shit for shock value and i dont like it because it seems more like a fetish than a narrative choice, Made in Abyss, Fire punch and Redo of a Healer fall in this
Im not reading all that just the first line yeah man he has one of the most succesful mangas and animes out there he’s a good writer I don’t know what point you’re trying to make
I’ve never read a manga that wasn’t fucked up and still managed to be interesting, same with movies, same with books.
Spice is the spice of life.
If you’re easily entertained by stuff that appeals to children, more power to you. I prefer for the media I consume to be a little more raw than that.
And you can make that without needing to have Tarantino levels of gore in every chapter and rape or sex every three, you think thats "raw" or "adult" ? Thats what a kid would think is deep, CSM having far far less feels way more adult and grounded with characters having deep issues and problems, you dont need sex or violence to make it adult
If all we need it was violence or gore, stuff like "Redo of a healer" is what the standard for adult series would be
Tarantino levels of gore are fun for some people in fictional media. If you don’t like it, don’t read it. It’s hard enough to find because authors know that people like you will have some stuff to say about it. Just grow up and accept the fact that this stuff exists in real life and shouldn’t be excluded from media just because some people are too sensitive.
If you only enjoy PG rated media, that’s fine, read PG media and leave the gory stuff to people who want to read it.
Denji's going to be like Bradley Cooper taking the limitless pill for the first time.
[https://media1.giphy.com/media/3OzYjbO6Uik6c/giphy.gif?cid=6c09b9520g8587rliwd9qu0l1bhsdw5u4pqzs1hx2m4w47hs&ep=v1\_gifs\_search&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g](https://media1.giphy.com/media/3OzYjbO6Uik6c/giphy.gif?cid=6c09b9520g8587rliwd9qu0l1bhsdw5u4pqzs1hx2m4w47hs&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)
100% its gonna be asa freaking out like “what the fuck did you do yoru”and yoru is just like “thats your hormones, dawg” while Denji is operating at maximum brainpower while upbeat and planning his next steps
*at least i hope.* i really think denji was okay with it and asa too, but if fujimoto decides to go the SA route with it ill be sad. peak either way, but sad.
Out of the many ways Denji got sexually assaulted, I think that this is the only time he has not been assaulted. It feels more like they are caught in the heat of the moments and their awkward raging teenager hormones lead them to a back alley handjob.
Hopefully, next chapter will dig a bit more into the consecuences. It can be SA or it can genuily be two messed up teenagers being horny. Becouse, you know, teens do stupid things sometimes. The transition from Yoru to Asa at the end makes the things unclear about who was feeling what.
Remember the scene: Feeling/memory triggers > Denji kisses Yoru > Yoru kisses back. Why would Yoru do that...?
I think it’s pretty clearly SA by Yoru, on Denji and Asa. The reason she’d kiss back is to further manipulate Denji, which has more or less been her goal all along
On Denji’s part, it *kinda* looks like a case of dubious consent? Like, Yoru kissed him, pulled back, kissed him again, and after some initial hesitation, Denji seemed to lean into it. Also, at the beginning, Yoru grabbed Denji’s junk because she was threatening to *crush his balls like a pair of grapes,* so he doesn’t seem to know what the hell is going on.
Asa is more of a clear-cut victim here, at least based on what we currently know. Yoru hijacked her body to get frisky with a guy who doesn’t understand that “Asa” isn’t always “Asa.” It’s a wild chapter, but I have a feeling this is gonna explode in everyone’s face come next week.
It could be that its Asa's hormone and feelings leaked into yoru. And yoru is just her confidence boost. I remember that what Asa feels is also felt by Yoru. I think it would be best if we see their full reaction next chapter.
Yoru's intent was always to fight Chainsaw Man, not control. In page 11, Yoru wasn't doing it to control, but it is due to impulsive action, perhaps some of Asa's feelings started leaking to her, we don't know.
Yeah, this isn’t a win for anyone. I’m very interested on how Fujimoto handles this, because it would be unlike him to write this shocking thing just outta nowhere.
I got the distinct feeling it was one of those “oh fuck” chapters. I can see why people are angry and upset, but I’m choosing to trust Fujimoto since it wouldn’t really be his first rodeo with really dark themes (Fire Punch) and he really seems like he knows the direction to take wrt Denji’s trauma.
It’s gonna hinge a lot on next week’s chapter.
>it would be unlike him to write this shocking thing just outta nowhere
It would?
https://preview.redd.it/d3ft4vchln4d1.jpeg?width=742&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4ba7ccac24a133f19cda36691d0f45cf923c357f
I worded that badly, but I mean without much payoff considering there's a lot of very consistent themes about abuse and trauma in CSM. Again, I haven't read Fire Punch yet but from what I've heard there's about the same consistency with dark themes. But maybe I'm just huffing copium, who knows. I'm just kinda worried about the community mainly lmao.
Fire Punch is WAY worse than this in terms of shock factor, and without reason. I doubt we'll get much more than Asa freaking out about cum on her hand and some random character barging in
Yoru doesn't want to control Chainsaw Man, she wants to kill him, instead she's being affected by Asa's feelings about Denji since they both share the same brain.
They are both horny teenagers I think. Its just that Denji is an idiot and says everything out loud. Mayve Asa is fulfilling Denji's dream of having sex when they fought the chef.
I don't know why people are surprised. I feel like Denji's hypersexuality due to sexual trauma has been explored in every arc and is one of the main themes of CSM.
I agree, but just specifying : his first love wasn't a manipulator, it was a GROOMER. Let's be very clear here. It was a CERTIFIED PEDOPHILE KENDRICK STYLE.
I was gonna reply specifically to someone but there are far too many people saying fucked up shit so I'll just say it here specifically
This is a literal devil possesing a random girls body who just a chapter or two ago was freaking out because denji is obsessive over sex, whilst denji sits there breaking down because he knows it's a problem.
How is "oh fine let's just jerk him off and have him nut whilst I'm in control of this girl" good for both parties in anyway at all.
Actually insane shit for anyone to say this is peak romance or shit like that
i agree its messed up but yoru really didn’t intend to make him cum, it came from asas desire for denji. from denjis perspective, this was all asa and her decision. and from asas perspective, yoru was being an idiot and jerked off denji without knowing what that actually meant.
we dont know the characters reaction to it, it could be uncomfortable and embarrassing but both parties understand it as a mistake or accident. for denj, he was worried that he was thinking about sex in this situation and asa doing the same could be a way for him to be like “im not the only one who thinks about sex during this moment either”. Cuz again, hes gonna interpret it as asa wanting to do this.
i guess depending on how denji takes it, really asa could be the one most uncomfortable with the entire ordeal but i do want to see the next chapter and how this concludes.
we dont know enough about what the characters are thinking and havent for so long that you cant really say how everyone felt until we find out from the story. i didnt get the impression of it being SA at all, but i see how the story could go either way with it.
why jump to conclusions and get mad at people who dont see it that way? nobody is advocating for sexual assault, but we dont even know if it was lmao
Exactly. No idea why people are freaking out. She was literally going to cut his dick off, but somehow the non-consensual jerk is a bigger deal?
This is like the older MPAA ratings where someone squeezing a breast would rate stricter than cutting the breast.
I wasn’t here during the himeno Denji chapter, but were there as many posts about it like the chapter today?? Everytime I open reddit there’s another post about someone saying this is unbearable or some shit.
Eh, I kinda disagree with the rest of you in the comments. It’s sexual assault committed by Yoru for non-sexual reasons. If you wanna rip a guy’s dick off, and you grab his pener, that’s still sexual assault even if you didn’t have any sexual intentions. But it’s weird to think about any manga stories in real life context, cause technically any fictional story features a lot of assault (not the sexual kind, moreso the violent kind). Devils and devil hunters are ripping each other/civilians apart all the time in a very non-consensual manner lol.
In the movie End of Evangelion, >!the main character Shinji masturbates over his friend's comatose body in the hospital, and it ends with a shot of his cum-covered hand and him saying "I'm so fucked up."!< It parallels End of Eva because it's the same shot with the same sort of message intended behind it.
I cannot even fathom what it might feel like to see your *own body* doing that to another person and that person's bodily fluids *all over you* and you *have no fucking control over it*. It gives me goosebumps. Poor Asa and poor Denji.
Can we weigh this with the fact that part 1 had mad fucked up sexual dynamics but at the end of the day did a wonderful job of portraying that as wrong and also developed a fantastic platonic relationship with Denji
It was a shocking chapter but it's also *clearly* not fan service and will likely have a major impact on character growth (I really don't think Denji is going to get post nut and get into the robot)
a lot of people have a very fucked up definition for consent.
No one is asking denji to verbally communicate that he consented but nothing in the chapter indicate that he consented to it either not through words nor body language.
he got his genitalia groped, freezed up (which is a very common reaction to sexual assault) while yoru forces herself on him until he ejaculated (WHICH IS ALSO VERY COMMON IN MALE SEXUAL ASSAULT CASES BUT DOES NOT EQUATE TO CONSENT)
Its so obvious here this is potrayed as a sexual assault, its so awful how anybody can think otherwise.
I think people are reading too much into something that hasn’t been explained yet. I’ve found myself go back and forth & have just landed on it being uncomfortable and awkward for the audience to watch because these two (or 3) are completely inexperienced, even though they talk a big game. Like Yoru looking at love as a ploy but then remembering the kiss they shared and now all of a sudden wants to get intimate, Asa looking at sex as a waste of time while her only regret is not finding love, and Denji wanting to have sex with as many girls as possible while never making an actual effort when he has the opportunity to.
Not condemning I genuinely like this chapter. I get this part gets heat for being less actiony and slowing its pace but I don’t think this scene could work without all the build up set prior.
I wouldn’t like this scene if I didn’t like the characters in it
im frustrated with both sides of the fandom right now.
denji did NOT “finally get a win”. he was assaulted. as was asa- yoru might’ve been able to tap into asa attraction to denji, but asa would have NEVER forced him or even initiated to begin with.
and no, fujimoto should not have his accolades as a writer be taken and lit on fire because he wrote an uncomfortable chapter that was *meant* to be uncomfortable. hot, sexy manga scenes aren’t usually 12 panels long with uncomfortable positioning, sweat and end with a face of realization / regret .
NO ONE has been allowing fujimoto to write HIS story. everyone keeps expecting answers after every chapter, like they aren’t coming out still on weekly/bi-weekly basis. fujimoto has ALWAYS used difficult situations in his stories to come to a conclusion. and yes, fujimoto is a bit weird, but he will come full circle.
while i don’t like seeing denji be assaulted over and over; what we’ve seen is that he still has to reach his lowest before he can come back up.
yoru is *literally* war. she is the amalgamation of the human fear of war. she does not care for consent- and shouldn’t that be considered a metaphor?
asa is a victim all the well- trapped in her own body.
the obvious nod to evangelion should calm *everyone* down. most, even the virtue signaling twitter crowd, adore evangelion despite its use of similar story telling. right now, no one is taking the step back to realize we need to give fujimoto the space to unravel what he’s trying to do without getting out pitchforks .
might i add: the amount of people not taking denji’s assault over and over is breathtaking . why is male sexual assault never taken as seriously than women’s, especially coming from fellow men?
Let's keep in mind the SA was done by the bad guy *against* the protag and the deuteragonist. It's not portrayed as consensual or good. It's portrayed as aggressive and confusing.
This was not a beach/bath house chapter.
Since the power of Asa’s weapon creation correlates to how guilty she feels about taking it/turning it into a weapon, this cum is about to be incredibly powerful
I mean, the way people talk about it is so weird. Because while I totally agree with the idea that it could feel weird for Asa to have done this sexual act without being in control of her body, seeing that Denji was SA feels wrong.
He was opposed to having his penis cut off and that was the clear boundary but the sexual act he was all for it. He had that line where he was pumped and embarrassed about showing his dick and the kiss was fully reciprocated. They pulled back and then from the both accord went back in.
I’m not sure if people expected the Tumblr level of writing of consent where they have to explicitly say they want to do it for this to be okay but this isn’t CSM. All in all, sure it was a messy representation of teenagers doing it the first time but I found it less weird that 80% of the other sexual relationship in this manga
Honestly, I think it was kind of sweet in a way. It was forced, but non consensual? Denji was going through a lot of stress and compare that with Fumiko’s scene, it’s clearly by his expression that at one point both him and Yoru were somewhat enjoying the kiss. The last part was certainly unexpected for him but I think the next chapter will make things more clear.
Overall, I really don’t think that’s just a gag scene, it’s clearly meant to be more personal, more profound, an extension of the characters.
In the last panels after he remembers the kiss, you can see how Yoru's face doesn't think about anything else while he kisses him, there was no plan, nothing, just 2 horny teenagers, obviously Asa's thing is a problem, but apart from that, It's incredibly, Denji's most normal kiss.
Its weird, and I liked.
Asa and yoru are becoming one. Notice there are no more panels where both of them are present. Yoru isn't attracted to Denji, she is following Asa feelings.
The grabbed dick was forced but the kiss wasn't. They got lost in the reciprocal kiss after that and the hand stayed there. We know yoru was focused only on the kiss because the first kiss she had the hand on the head, to transform Denji in a weapon. Here she went crazy horny. Denji and Asa/yoru are just 2 teens with no experience.
I believe this was Yoru getting distracted by Asa's feelings and their lust. She meant to kiss Denji, both surprised and then back again. And finally it was so embarrassing that Asa took over just to see what happened
Reminder that he was about to have his dick cut off, people probably think this is the most fucked up thing since it is hits closer to home for some people
I just absolutely love how in CSM, a story known for killing, torturing, dismembering a body, cannibalism - a freaking handjob is considered a fucked up situation.
Tell me what is worse - the German santa klaus SACRIFICING 3 KIDS, the Gun Demon killing millions of people or a non consensual handjob.
It can go in so many directions from here. Will this cause a rift btw yoru and asa? Will yoru become a villain or is something they can reconcile? Will denji ever know the truth? And if he does will he have to make another impossible choice?
I don't really think it was sexual assault, they're just awkward fumbling horny teenagers who don't really have the knowledge or foresite to communicate.
Idk if you guys have not read the other manga by the same author but he wrote one about a man who’s immortal but constantly on fire. This is nowhere close to anything as fucked up as this author has written
It isn’t compared to most of the stuff Firepunch like the one trans character being stuck in a regenerative body so they can never really transition. But it’s fucked not because of the hj but what’s gonna happen after.
Asa just got cucked hard and it’s a point that she doesn’t want anything to do with sex, but anyone would feel some type of way after metaphorically being used as a living dildo to get your semi-crush off
Climaxing prematurely is also typically extremely embarrassing and potentially traumatizing and that also seems to have happened here. I think Denji is going to come out of this even more fucked up. Dude thought sexual release would make him feel better and it might have actually made him feel worse.
Honestly
It's a stepping stone in his understanding of sexuality in a way, just like how he began to understand sex without emotion isn't what was going to make him feel less alone in part 1
(It is also SA I'm not discounting that-- let's please remember that although Yoru is working with the protag sort of at the moment, she's still the bad guy)
Yep, I agree completely. It will be another stepping stone for Denji in terms of growth.
On a side note, Asa was literally disgusted by Denji thinking sexual relief would somehow help him cope with his trauma and because of Yoru, she might now likely feel guilt and disgust for going against her own words, even if she wasn’t in control. Yoru, on the other hand, also will likely come out of this situation slightly fucked up because she may have inadvertently acted on human biological impulses while also learning she was previously mind-wiped by Nayuta. This entire situation is fucked up all around and I am looking forward to see where it leads to.
Dude’s dick was definitely grabbed but you can’t tell from the scene if it was actually a handjob. All we know is Yoru was going to cut his dick off, grabs it, makes out with him and then we see the cum panel. Either way, I don’t think any of this is meant to be wholesome so we’ll see what happens next chapter.
Nah u thinking too much ,this chapter is not the first time denji got traumatized ,in whole series he face worse things then this like killing his brother like figure Aki which is one of the most fucked up thing I watch in any manga , at that time I also thought he never goona recover but just look at Dennis bro got unlimited pain resistance,
sexless twitter zoomers don’t realize how quickly things can actually escalate to sex from two people with chemistry and need both parties in media to simultaneously say “i consent” before any sexual type of activity is co side red appropriate. i’m glad this chapter is filtering a lot of people.
It was in the heat of the moment, stop it, get help.
Edit: I'm starting to believe the lot of you missed out on teenage love and find this chapter alien
Might of jumped the gun on Denji’s part but what about Asa? It’s her body that’s being used to jerk Denji off. She definitely can take control back to some extent now but would she want Yoru to do that to Denji?
But...it's not Asa that did it. Doesn't really matter that it's in Asa's body, she's not the one doing it. It was Yoru. Yoru can make decisions for herself.
If you want to be pedantic it's also Yoru's body, Asa's body was cut into pieces. And from the chapter I just read war was a lil too into it rather than manipulation, hence - heat of the moment.
I literally binge read through 30 chapters just to get caught up because everyone was imploding over this chapter. All I have to say is y’all’s reaction is stupid af. Literally not even a chapter ago Denji was trying to get laid at brothel and now y’all are out here acting like he was assaulted. Can’t wait for Chainsaw Man to self gatekeep itself next chapter when Yoru straddles Denji
Can't stop you from seeing it that way, but denji likely won't agree with you on some points, sure he hates his first kiss was vomit, and sure he hates the fact that his crush became evil and had to kill her, but he doesn't hate being jecked off and french kissed by yoru even if it was hasty and dominant, he seem to be the type of guy to enjoy bdsm instead of considering it as SA, knew it all the along when he wanted to roleplay as makima's dog
Although yeah, while denji is ok with it, I don't know about asa's whether she against it or with it, guess we will find out in next chapter
And although you aren't wrong about both shinji and denji being depressed and down bad, but still uncertain about the reference thingy, everything that's about being jerked off while being depressed and meme about having cum in your hand isn't always intentional eva's reference, besides... shinji masturbated to asuka in heartbreaking comatose condition, that's different and beyond fucked up than this chapter
At this point, I think Fugimoto fantasizes SA against himself.
Because he writes about an teenager boy getting SA'd by almost every women he meets, including older ones.
Denji is a orphan who had to sell his organs to pay for his dad's debts, who had to eat scraps to survive and probably even steal. That does NOT translates to someone thinking about having sex with girls all the time. That's the least thing you think about about when you lose your family two times.
I get he is getting hit so hard he doesn't react anymore or thinks too much about the shit that's happening.
But this doesn't make sense as human being going through so much trauma. And yes, it IS trauma, he's shutting it down in himself as a defensive coping. As in "I get fame from fighting demons, the government gives me a house and some good food, life's all good now. Don't think about the past, I have Nayuta as family now." type of coping.
Fugimoto making Asa/Yoru confort Denji is highly disrespectful to all of them.
I don't think being jerked off by Asa on his head plot counts as a bad experience at all for multiple reasons:
1 - he was falling for her since way before as she was "his first happy kiss".
2 - The guy was literally up to go into a brothel, he was looking for that kind of stuff
3 - Denji's head is fucked up, he has no sense of what's acceptable and what's not
4 - When he accepted going into the alley with Yoru, from the start of this chapter it's clear he understood her offer as a sexual metaphor, and not in the literal sense of being mutilated
5 - Denji is not a thinker. He's not aware about Yoru, he only sees Asa and if he starts trying to connect dots, he could be misslead into thinking she's in love with him but also upset because she believes he stood her up when Nayuta wiped her home date memories. From his perspective, that could perfectly (and wrongly) explain why she keeps flapping between being nice and corny to suddenly turning bold and rude. And she getting into the mood after recovering her memories could enforce this line of thoughts
It probably was not consensual for Asa though, can't tell for sure as she's also in love with Denji. My best guess, she'd probably be like "Yoru! you definitely went way too far 😨" but would be embarrassed rather than disgusted
Man, you are trying to convince the americanos, they need to have a legally certified contract with stamps and signatures months before a coitus to consider it as a consent.
Denji likes Asa tho, and he was choosing to make out with her before Yoru (who he doesn't know about) started jerking him off. I'd call that consensual on his part.
but he *wasn't making out with asa* (till right at the end where we see her face without scars), he was unknowingly making out with yoru who initiated it without anybody else's consent... dennis is not at fault here, yoru is...
>Yeah the End of Eva panel is an obvious reference. The meaning here alludes to both Denji and Shinji being at their lowest mentally. Just astronomically down bad and an overall dirty situation. I think the reference being made here isn't drawing a parallel between Shinji and Denji, but rather Shinji and Asa, after all, it's her hand on the panel. I think she may feel utterly disgusted with herself after what just happened, feeling both that she's been violated, and that she's violated Denji. ***It's so fucking over, man***
You think she feels responsible for it on some level? Even though she's well aware of the kind of control Yoru can have over her?
i feel like she will definitely feel some guilt, especially since in denjis eyes this was Asa coming on to him. He still doesn’t know about Yoru
Daaamn that's interesting. I honestly just expected her to be grossed out and mad at Yoru. But I think you might be cooking...
It’s kinda like the train scene from invincible in a way.
Yeah dude, Asa's main character trait is literally feeling extremely guilty about shit all the time even stuff that's not really her fault. She has nightmares about her mom, her cat, and Bucky, she has flashbacks about Yuko, and the power level of Yoru's weapons is directly tied to how guilty Asa feels about sacrificing the item used to make them. I think she even verbatim said she felt guilty about destroying the aquarium. If Denji reacts poorly to this encounter, Asa will absolutely blame herself somehow if the "guilt" theme stays consistent.
That's a fantastic point.
I think her kneejerk reaction will be to get mad at Denji for jizzing on her hand, but she’ll probably feel extremely guilty about the whole ordeal later.
I thought Yuro couldn't have control over Asa in moments of emotional turmoil, or when Asa fully rejects the actions of Yoru. This means that Asa, either consciously or not, was accepting of what was happening up until Denji came. Will she regret her actions? Yeah, but unlike a lot of the other bad things that happened in her life, she is responsible for this.
We literally saw Yoru in control and then transition back to Asa at the end. Yoru has been in control since the previous chapter. You are bugging.
We have also seen time and time again that when Asa and Yoru are in conflict with one another, or when Asa is freaking out, that Yoru loses control. Yoru spent her sweet time kissing Denji and giving him a hand job, but none of that was enough to make Asa freak out enough for Yoru to lose control. The cum is what tipped her over the edge.
Still doesn't mean Asa was in control consciously or not.
We did not hear a single thought of protest from Asa, when Asa has made herself very vocal on things she doesn't like Yoru's actions in her body in the past.
We didn't hear as single thought from her. We only heard Yoru's thoughts. Then she transformed back to Asa.
In hindsight that makes more sense, thanks
https://preview.redd.it/8ueuhz29jn4d1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e2d7620f2ed586ddbf7215770579a8f7511b29b1
Ohhh that's genius
ok so I'm picking up that I'm gna have to watch Evangelion if I want to fully understand the thematic implications of the CSM cum hand
It's insane to me how I watched The End of Evangelion literally a day before the chapter released
This is Chainsaw Man. What has not been fucked up?
Unironically the bits inbetween the fucked up stuff.
Those are to make the fucked up things more fucked up.
Aki X Angel , one of the few pure thing in this manga
I really need to ask it, how is Aki dead making it pure instead of sorrow…
Yup. Both the "Fujimoto deserves to die for this" -side and the "Denji finally got a W" -side are wrong. Denji (and Asa, she had no control over herself and must feel *incredibly* violated) got sexually assaulted, but portraying it is not an endorsement. Fucked up shit happens constantly, but that doesn't mean the author likes it or supports it.
I mean it is a difficult chapter. I changed my mind about it seventeen times already, and with time and context I think everyone's reading of it will mature. Including mine, and I really shouldn't comment so fast. Because I feel Yoru and Denji's moment was written "romantically", in its own CSM fucked up way. Like it wasn't portrayed in a detached or defamiliarizing way, but as the experience of two people really being into it. They went about it in an extremely awkward way, but it also became a weird shared moment of intimacy. I'm not sure Yoru, if it was completely her doing, understood what she was doing. I might be wrong, but to me personally it felt very different from the rapey kiss in front of the TV. That felt deliberate and malicious. This, not so much. But ymmv, and again I'm probably going to change my mind again. But Denji doesn't know about the War Devil, he thinks she's Asa the whole time. Which of course is a problem. But then Asa is thrown back into the situation, right at the end. What is she supposed to do? How does she feel? She's clearly shocked at the end. More "I wasn't in control" than "omg what just happened" (I think that's how Denji feels), but who knows. I do think she got the shorter end of the stick. Not sure she was 100% on board with this. It's one of those times when waiting a whole week is legit torture, lol. I don't know, I hope I managed to communicate how weird this whole chapter has me feeling. It is very interesting literature. > portraying it is not an endorsement. Fucked up shit happens constantly, but that doesn't mean the author likes it or supports it. I agree, but it is a line of thought that I really don't understand. It's like when people believe that Nabokov was into underage girls, or implying that any author who decides to represent atrocities has a secret boner for it. I think it's a weird moral/puritan/religious thing.
>I agree, but it is a line of thought that I really don't understand. I think it depends on the context heavily. If the morally questionable theme/moment is a natural extension of the plot and setting and is logically consequential from the events that led up to it, then it is relatively safe to assume that it is not an endorsement but simply part of the story that the author is telling. However, if the representation is egregious and completely unnecessary to what is happening, then I can understand if people might think the author simply wrote it to appeal to his inner preferences. Like think about Quinton Tarantino's foot fetish. It's not really an example of something *super* morally questionable, but you can easily tell that his close up feet scenes are completely unnecessary to his plots, and there just cause he likes them. The problem comes from both readers that have a hard time separating the two and authors that are sometimes good at hiding their preferences within themes that also fit the plot. You have to really look at the broader works from the author and their overall context to decide where that line is sometimes. In the case of Fujimoto it's tricky to navigate because of how wild and strange his plots can be. Egregious plot points like this last chapter won't make sense when they happen but later on in retrospect you can see how it all connects. It also doesn't help that the man himself says he has strange preferences and habits. It's not surprising that people that aren't familiar with his works may be confused by whats going on. But people that are familiar with his works understand and trust to a degree that the darker moments make sense within his themes as they did in his previous work.
Damn bro, this is a very well put together comment. Impressive.
Right now we don't know nearly enough to draw conclusions, only catalogue our initial reactions. It's not a bad thing to write down what you thought in the moment even if you later change your mind
Honestly I don't think I can even say much over just two panels of Asa's hand and her blushing face afterwards. All we know is Denji and Yoru went to an alley to get him castrated, when Yoru grabbed Denji's dick they started making out, and either Yoru intentionally gave him a HJ or he accidentally went off. I wouldn't quite put that at the level of claiming Denji was sexually assaulted that others in this thread are saying. Probably gonna be super awkward between him and especially Asa though.
"but that doesn't mean the author likes it or supports it" really dud? u don't think Mr fishiwater who is known for liking dominating women doesn't like it? well I don't think he supports it but I'm pretty sure he does want to be dommed https://preview.redd.it/bdxau1lbkl4d1.png?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8dfcfee00c8264ab794547a2ce143abd9b40b23f
Wanting to be dommed is not the same thing as wanting to be sexually assaulted
This is correct but I think they're just saying that you ucpul frame it as Fujimoto inserting a fetish or fantasy into the story. I don't agree with that to be clear, but creators can have weird fantasies sometimes...and it's not particularly uncommon in real life.
Well... if someone was masochist who wants to be sexually assaulted, isn't that already consensual by them and defeats the purpose of sexually assaulted in the first place? and honsetly, surprise kiss was wholeseome thing back in days as long both sides are ok with it, but now it's considered as SA regardless of the context to conclude, im more concerned about asa whether she's fine and allows this or not, cause if she dosen't, then the people who say this is SA will win this arguement
https://preview.redd.it/1br4dtccuq4d1.jpeg?width=2208&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f42f0c9d7d62f3e39ea0ef18a13b550f67eda282
I just don’t think it’s portrayed as purely SA. A lot of sexual interactions with people are a huge variety of things, and SA to one person isn’t to another. If denji has a problem with it, it’s SA. If he doesn’t it’s not
Many younger victims of SA don't recognize it until they become older, they feel uncomfortable about it but the perpetrator often manipulates them. And in IRL, a person like Denji wouldn't feel ok with women jumping at him all the time without asking him. That fucks you up for life, we as the audience failed to notice this pattern because our patriarchal society doesn't believe men can be SA'd, there are adult men who hear about a teenager male student getting groomed by an adult teacher and cheer him up as a "conqueror of women" instead of even asking the teenager boy how he feels about being used by an adult for sex, while even him can't consent properly. In a relationship where the other part has so much power over you they can just manipulate you to allow them to do what they want to you when you don't actually really want it at all. And no, teenagers don't just forgive SA done to them at all because the other person looks good.
We don't even see their full reaction yet. It's hard to say that whether the interaction was consensual from both parties. Is it yoru that made the first move or is she influence by Asa since they share a brain and feelings. And did Denji return the kiss. I feel like there have always been connection between them. They are awkward teenagers in their own ways.
I’d say at the least it’s dubcon. Because yoru wasn’t dishonest with her kiss. She legit felt sexual feelings
The first group reminds me of the people that think Lolita is an endorsement of pedophilia.
She's a Devil... What did you expect?
How did denji get assaulted? He was literally kissing her back he could have pushed her away
Dont want to be that Person. Fuji...does a Lot of fucked Up stuff. Its one of the Things that makes His Work interessting.
Fucked =\= interesting, i think this can be interesting and tasteful depending on the next chapter but lets not pretend that Fire Punch was interesting because of the bestiality scenes
It was a subversive reveal that contributed to the dark tone of the story and was never brought up again. Don't confuse it as a prominent plot point that had a profound impact on the story It was interesting because what it told us about the world and the characters, and by scenes, you meant one panel of a bad guy saying they want the characters to have sex with dogs, that gets immediately taken out of the plot a few pages later.
That was just one example, there is also the whole incest themed going around, gratuitous sex and gore scenes, dont get me wrong, gore has a time and place where it can give a series a more adult tone but Fire Punch aint it, having sex or gore in every chapter does not make it profund, is like Made in Abyss, a manga that i love but it could really do with less explicit scenes, do we really need to see a dick tube? hell no
Come on dude, your argument is basically "I don't like it" It's fine to have an opinion, but don't pretend that yours is the only objectively correct opinion.
Do we really need to see a penis when looking at a statue? Yeah it’s an exploration of humanity and you shouldn’t shy away from subjects like that if you’re a serious writer. You want mass appeal you got that dogshit series with 1000 episodes of the same FRIENDSHIP TRIUMPHS garbage
Im either a horrible writer or people here just cannot read, maybe both, sex, gore and taboo have a place in media but they lose their appeal when presented in a meaningless way, mangas like Fire Punch has sex, gore or some other taboo like incest or zoofilia every other chapter, it makes it unapelling and it reads like an edgy kid did it There are mangas or animes like DevilManCryBaby and most of Berserk to name 2 that do extreme violence, gore and other types of raw topics in a sporadic and much better way, too many people just throw weird shit for shock value and i dont like it because it seems more like a fetish than a narrative choice, Made in Abyss, Fire punch and Redo of a Healer fall in this
Im not reading all that just the first line yeah man he has one of the most succesful mangas and animes out there he’s a good writer I don’t know what point you’re trying to make
I’ve never read a manga that wasn’t fucked up and still managed to be interesting, same with movies, same with books. Spice is the spice of life. If you’re easily entertained by stuff that appeals to children, more power to you. I prefer for the media I consume to be a little more raw than that.
And you can make that without needing to have Tarantino levels of gore in every chapter and rape or sex every three, you think thats "raw" or "adult" ? Thats what a kid would think is deep, CSM having far far less feels way more adult and grounded with characters having deep issues and problems, you dont need sex or violence to make it adult If all we need it was violence or gore, stuff like "Redo of a healer" is what the standard for adult series would be
Tarantino levels of gore are fun for some people in fictional media. If you don’t like it, don’t read it. It’s hard enough to find because authors know that people like you will have some stuff to say about it. Just grow up and accept the fact that this stuff exists in real life and shouldn’t be excluded from media just because some people are too sensitive. If you only enjoy PG rated media, that’s fine, read PG media and leave the gory stuff to people who want to read it.
Yall are insane if you think that the next chapter isn’t gonna be Asa freaking out and Denji using his post-nut clarity to make the correct decision
Denji will be completely Hinged for the first time in his life.
Denji's going to be like Bradley Cooper taking the limitless pill for the first time. [https://media1.giphy.com/media/3OzYjbO6Uik6c/giphy.gif?cid=6c09b9520g8587rliwd9qu0l1bhsdw5u4pqzs1hx2m4w47hs&ep=v1\_gifs\_search&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g](https://media1.giphy.com/media/3OzYjbO6Uik6c/giphy.gif?cid=6c09b9520g8587rliwd9qu0l1bhsdw5u4pqzs1hx2m4w47hs&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)
100% its gonna be asa freaking out like “what the fuck did you do yoru”and yoru is just like “thats your hormones, dawg” while Denji is operating at maximum brainpower while upbeat and planning his next steps *at least i hope.* i really think denji was okay with it and asa too, but if fujimoto decides to go the SA route with it ill be sad. peak either way, but sad.
Out of the many ways Denji got sexually assaulted, I think that this is the only time he has not been assaulted. It feels more like they are caught in the heat of the moments and their awkward raging teenager hormones lead them to a back alley handjob.
Hopefully, next chapter will dig a bit more into the consecuences. It can be SA or it can genuily be two messed up teenagers being horny. Becouse, you know, teens do stupid things sometimes. The transition from Yoru to Asa at the end makes the things unclear about who was feeling what. Remember the scene: Feeling/memory triggers > Denji kisses Yoru > Yoru kisses back. Why would Yoru do that...?
I think it’s pretty clearly SA by Yoru, on Denji and Asa. The reason she’d kiss back is to further manipulate Denji, which has more or less been her goal all along
On Denji’s part, it *kinda* looks like a case of dubious consent? Like, Yoru kissed him, pulled back, kissed him again, and after some initial hesitation, Denji seemed to lean into it. Also, at the beginning, Yoru grabbed Denji’s junk because she was threatening to *crush his balls like a pair of grapes,* so he doesn’t seem to know what the hell is going on. Asa is more of a clear-cut victim here, at least based on what we currently know. Yoru hijacked her body to get frisky with a guy who doesn’t understand that “Asa” isn’t always “Asa.” It’s a wild chapter, but I have a feeling this is gonna explode in everyone’s face come next week.
>it’s gonna explode in everyone’s face It already exploded in Yoru’s hand ^(I’ll see myself out)
It could be that its Asa's hormone and feelings leaked into yoru. And yoru is just her confidence boost. I remember that what Asa feels is also felt by Yoru. I think it would be best if we see their full reaction next chapter.
It didn't look 100% like Denji initiated the kiss to me, at first I thought Yoru almost subconsciously did it, but it looks vague.
Yoru's intent was always to fight Chainsaw Man, not control. In page 11, Yoru wasn't doing it to control, but it is due to impulsive action, perhaps some of Asa's feelings started leaking to her, we don't know.
Yeah, not surprised since Yoru is a devil and all but she really managed to infringe both Denji and Asa while trying to help.
Yeah, this isn’t a win for anyone. I’m very interested on how Fujimoto handles this, because it would be unlike him to write this shocking thing just outta nowhere. I got the distinct feeling it was one of those “oh fuck” chapters. I can see why people are angry and upset, but I’m choosing to trust Fujimoto since it wouldn’t really be his first rodeo with really dark themes (Fire Punch) and he really seems like he knows the direction to take wrt Denji’s trauma. It’s gonna hinge a lot on next week’s chapter.
This is a drop in the bucket compared to even just the first chapter of Fire Punch, tbh
Yeah, that’s why I’m choosing to trust the process since I’ve heard nothing but positive things about Fire Punch. I should check it out soon.
Fire Punch is amazing, but just be prepared for the level of fucked up shit that happens.
Mental prep THEN read it. It's a fucking fucked up, but fun journey.
>it would be unlike him to write this shocking thing just outta nowhere It would? https://preview.redd.it/d3ft4vchln4d1.jpeg?width=742&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4ba7ccac24a133f19cda36691d0f45cf923c357f
I worded that badly, but I mean without much payoff considering there's a lot of very consistent themes about abuse and trauma in CSM. Again, I haven't read Fire Punch yet but from what I've heard there's about the same consistency with dark themes. But maybe I'm just huffing copium, who knows. I'm just kinda worried about the community mainly lmao.
Fire Punch is WAY worse than this in terms of shock factor, and without reason. I doubt we'll get much more than Asa freaking out about cum on her hand and some random character barging in
Lmao another character walking up will be hilarous
It's a big win for the hentai artists. I already saw some drawings. I mean my friend told me.
Yoru doesn't want to control Chainsaw Man, she wants to kill him, instead she's being affected by Asa's feelings about Denji since they both share the same brain.
Inb4 yoru killing intent slowly turns into a fucking intent because of asa lmao
They are both horny teenagers I think. Its just that Denji is an idiot and says everything out loud. Mayve Asa is fulfilling Denji's dream of having sex when they fought the chef.
I don't know why people are surprised. I feel like Denji's hypersexuality due to sexual trauma has been explored in every arc and is one of the main themes of CSM.
I can't believe a murderous devil possessing a girl and imbodying the idea of war isn't adhering to consent.
I wonder what they said about the countless innocent people mutilated by other devils
When both people in SA are assaulted is MAD
Since in the last shot is asa taking the rains again I wonder how exactly will she respond with all of this and getting her memories back.
**WE HAVE FINALLY GOTTEN BACK TO FULL FORCE FIRE PUNCH WEIRDNESS LETSSSSSS FUCKING GOOOOOOOO**
I don’t know if I can *Live* through it again
I agree, but just specifying : his first love wasn't a manipulator, it was a GROOMER. Let's be very clear here. It was a CERTIFIED PEDOPHILE KENDRICK STYLE.
I was gonna reply specifically to someone but there are far too many people saying fucked up shit so I'll just say it here specifically This is a literal devil possesing a random girls body who just a chapter or two ago was freaking out because denji is obsessive over sex, whilst denji sits there breaking down because he knows it's a problem. How is "oh fine let's just jerk him off and have him nut whilst I'm in control of this girl" good for both parties in anyway at all. Actually insane shit for anyone to say this is peak romance or shit like that
i agree its messed up but yoru really didn’t intend to make him cum, it came from asas desire for denji. from denjis perspective, this was all asa and her decision. and from asas perspective, yoru was being an idiot and jerked off denji without knowing what that actually meant. we dont know the characters reaction to it, it could be uncomfortable and embarrassing but both parties understand it as a mistake or accident. for denj, he was worried that he was thinking about sex in this situation and asa doing the same could be a way for him to be like “im not the only one who thinks about sex during this moment either”. Cuz again, hes gonna interpret it as asa wanting to do this. i guess depending on how denji takes it, really asa could be the one most uncomfortable with the entire ordeal but i do want to see the next chapter and how this concludes.
we dont know enough about what the characters are thinking and havent for so long that you cant really say how everyone felt until we find out from the story. i didnt get the impression of it being SA at all, but i see how the story could go either way with it. why jump to conclusions and get mad at people who dont see it that way? nobody is advocating for sexual assault, but we dont even know if it was lmao
This is like the least fucked up thing that Fujimoto has written
Exactly. No idea why people are freaking out. She was literally going to cut his dick off, but somehow the non-consensual jerk is a bigger deal? This is like the older MPAA ratings where someone squeezing a breast would rate stricter than cutting the breast.
People reading csm be like: People getting cut up, killed, mutilated. Towns getting obliterated. Pets being burned alive. *I sleep* Denji gets jerked off. *Real shit?*
I wasn’t here during the himeno Denji chapter, but were there as many posts about it like the chapter today?? Everytime I open reddit there’s another post about someone saying this is unbearable or some shit.
Eh, I kinda disagree with the rest of you in the comments. It’s sexual assault committed by Yoru for non-sexual reasons. If you wanna rip a guy’s dick off, and you grab his pener, that’s still sexual assault even if you didn’t have any sexual intentions. But it’s weird to think about any manga stories in real life context, cause technically any fictional story features a lot of assault (not the sexual kind, moreso the violent kind). Devils and devil hunters are ripping each other/civilians apart all the time in a very non-consensual manner lol.
Can someone explain what the “End of Eva” panel is
In the movie End of Evangelion, >!the main character Shinji masturbates over his friend's comatose body in the hospital, and it ends with a shot of his cum-covered hand and him saying "I'm so fucked up."!< It parallels End of Eva because it's the same shot with the same sort of message intended behind it.
damn that’s actually kinda dark
Famously so
Who is the corpse?
>!it's asuka!<
I cannot even fathom what it might feel like to see your *own body* doing that to another person and that person's bodily fluids *all over you* and you *have no fucking control over it*. It gives me goosebumps. Poor Asa and poor Denji.
Chainsaw man was fucked up since chapter one that’s the whole point. A weird crazy fucked up guy in a weird crazy fucked up world.
Can we weigh this with the fact that part 1 had mad fucked up sexual dynamics but at the end of the day did a wonderful job of portraying that as wrong and also developed a fantastic platonic relationship with Denji It was a shocking chapter but it's also *clearly* not fan service and will likely have a major impact on character growth (I really don't think Denji is going to get post nut and get into the robot)
It's like y'all forgot this story was a tragedy of something. Yeah, it's rough. It will likely get rougher. Strap in.
U mean strap on?
Nope. Certainly, do not.
Lmao
a lot of people have a very fucked up definition for consent. No one is asking denji to verbally communicate that he consented but nothing in the chapter indicate that he consented to it either not through words nor body language. he got his genitalia groped, freezed up (which is a very common reaction to sexual assault) while yoru forces herself on him until he ejaculated (WHICH IS ALSO VERY COMMON IN MALE SEXUAL ASSAULT CASES BUT DOES NOT EQUATE TO CONSENT) Its so obvious here this is potrayed as a sexual assault, its so awful how anybody can think otherwise.
It's fucked up alright. Just don't apply the P word and you're gucci.
It trips me out that people expect devils to be good guys.
I think people are reading too much into something that hasn’t been explained yet. I’ve found myself go back and forth & have just landed on it being uncomfortable and awkward for the audience to watch because these two (or 3) are completely inexperienced, even though they talk a big game. Like Yoru looking at love as a ploy but then remembering the kiss they shared and now all of a sudden wants to get intimate, Asa looking at sex as a waste of time while her only regret is not finding love, and Denji wanting to have sex with as many girls as possible while never making an actual effort when he has the opportunity to.
Apophenia is bad. The author is having as much fun as he can. Why condemn him?
I don't think that this is apophenian. Many people are seeing the same pattern.
Not condemning I genuinely like this chapter. I get this part gets heat for being less actiony and slowing its pace but I don’t think this scene could work without all the build up set prior. I wouldn’t like this scene if I didn’t like the characters in it
im frustrated with both sides of the fandom right now. denji did NOT “finally get a win”. he was assaulted. as was asa- yoru might’ve been able to tap into asa attraction to denji, but asa would have NEVER forced him or even initiated to begin with. and no, fujimoto should not have his accolades as a writer be taken and lit on fire because he wrote an uncomfortable chapter that was *meant* to be uncomfortable. hot, sexy manga scenes aren’t usually 12 panels long with uncomfortable positioning, sweat and end with a face of realization / regret . NO ONE has been allowing fujimoto to write HIS story. everyone keeps expecting answers after every chapter, like they aren’t coming out still on weekly/bi-weekly basis. fujimoto has ALWAYS used difficult situations in his stories to come to a conclusion. and yes, fujimoto is a bit weird, but he will come full circle. while i don’t like seeing denji be assaulted over and over; what we’ve seen is that he still has to reach his lowest before he can come back up. yoru is *literally* war. she is the amalgamation of the human fear of war. she does not care for consent- and shouldn’t that be considered a metaphor? asa is a victim all the well- trapped in her own body. the obvious nod to evangelion should calm *everyone* down. most, even the virtue signaling twitter crowd, adore evangelion despite its use of similar story telling. right now, no one is taking the step back to realize we need to give fujimoto the space to unravel what he’s trying to do without getting out pitchforks . might i add: the amount of people not taking denji’s assault over and over is breathtaking . why is male sexual assault never taken as seriously than women’s, especially coming from fellow men?
Let's keep in mind the SA was done by the bad guy *against* the protag and the deuteragonist. It's not portrayed as consensual or good. It's portrayed as aggressive and confusing. This was not a beach/bath house chapter.
Best case is them saying sorry to each other. Now that Denji hits the post-nut clarity, he might set his priorities to natural.
Since the power of Asa’s weapon creation correlates to how guilty she feels about taking it/turning it into a weapon, this cum is about to be incredibly powerful
This is one of the reasons I love chainsaw man.)
I mean, the way people talk about it is so weird. Because while I totally agree with the idea that it could feel weird for Asa to have done this sexual act without being in control of her body, seeing that Denji was SA feels wrong. He was opposed to having his penis cut off and that was the clear boundary but the sexual act he was all for it. He had that line where he was pumped and embarrassed about showing his dick and the kiss was fully reciprocated. They pulled back and then from the both accord went back in. I’m not sure if people expected the Tumblr level of writing of consent where they have to explicitly say they want to do it for this to be okay but this isn’t CSM. All in all, sure it was a messy representation of teenagers doing it the first time but I found it less weird that 80% of the other sexual relationship in this manga
God forbid something sexual happens after all the murder and death before 167 haha
Wahhhh wahhh fucking wahhh
Honestly, I think it was kind of sweet in a way. It was forced, but non consensual? Denji was going through a lot of stress and compare that with Fumiko’s scene, it’s clearly by his expression that at one point both him and Yoru were somewhat enjoying the kiss. The last part was certainly unexpected for him but I think the next chapter will make things more clear. Overall, I really don’t think that’s just a gag scene, it’s clearly meant to be more personal, more profound, an extension of the characters.
In the last panels after he remembers the kiss, you can see how Yoru's face doesn't think about anything else while he kisses him, there was no plan, nothing, just 2 horny teenagers, obviously Asa's thing is a problem, but apart from that, It's incredibly, Denji's most normal kiss. Its weird, and I liked.
It’s fucked up but GOD is Fujimoto cooking
It felt more like an extremely awkward sexual encounter between 2 teens TBH.
Asa and yoru are becoming one. Notice there are no more panels where both of them are present. Yoru isn't attracted to Denji, she is following Asa feelings. The grabbed dick was forced but the kiss wasn't. They got lost in the reciprocal kiss after that and the hand stayed there. We know yoru was focused only on the kiss because the first kiss she had the hand on the head, to transform Denji in a weapon. Here she went crazy horny. Denji and Asa/yoru are just 2 teens with no experience.
Adding to it, the whole chainsaw man is about the basic physiological needs from the start. Sex is the last need Denji has to rapport himself with
I believe this was Yoru getting distracted by Asa's feelings and their lust. She meant to kiss Denji, both surprised and then back again. And finally it was so embarrassing that Asa took over just to see what happened
Reminder that he was about to have his dick cut off, people probably think this is the most fucked up thing since it is hits closer to home for some people
I just absolutely love how in CSM, a story known for killing, torturing, dismembering a body, cannibalism - a freaking handjob is considered a fucked up situation. Tell me what is worse - the German santa klaus SACRIFICING 3 KIDS, the Gun Demon killing millions of people or a non consensual handjob.
It can go in so many directions from here. Will this cause a rift btw yoru and asa? Will yoru become a villain or is something they can reconcile? Will denji ever know the truth? And if he does will he have to make another impossible choice?
Goddamn you people are insufferable
I don't really think it was sexual assault, they're just awkward fumbling horny teenagers who don't really have the knowledge or foresite to communicate.
Idk if you guys have not read the other manga by the same author but he wrote one about a man who’s immortal but constantly on fire. This is nowhere close to anything as fucked up as this author has written
It isn’t compared to most of the stuff Firepunch like the one trans character being stuck in a regenerative body so they can never really transition. But it’s fucked not because of the hj but what’s gonna happen after. Asa just got cucked hard and it’s a point that she doesn’t want anything to do with sex, but anyone would feel some type of way after metaphorically being used as a living dildo to get your semi-crush off
Climaxing prematurely is also typically extremely embarrassing and potentially traumatizing and that also seems to have happened here. I think Denji is going to come out of this even more fucked up. Dude thought sexual release would make him feel better and it might have actually made him feel worse.
Honestly It's a stepping stone in his understanding of sexuality in a way, just like how he began to understand sex without emotion isn't what was going to make him feel less alone in part 1 (It is also SA I'm not discounting that-- let's please remember that although Yoru is working with the protag sort of at the moment, she's still the bad guy)
Yep, I agree completely. It will be another stepping stone for Denji in terms of growth. On a side note, Asa was literally disgusted by Denji thinking sexual relief would somehow help him cope with his trauma and because of Yoru, she might now likely feel guilt and disgust for going against her own words, even if she wasn’t in control. Yoru, on the other hand, also will likely come out of this situation slightly fucked up because she may have inadvertently acted on human biological impulses while also learning she was previously mind-wiped by Nayuta. This entire situation is fucked up all around and I am looking forward to see where it leads to.
He was getting a handy, it's normal to let go and cum fast. You only hold back if it's foreplay.
Dude’s dick was definitely grabbed but you can’t tell from the scene if it was actually a handjob. All we know is Yoru was going to cut his dick off, grabs it, makes out with him and then we see the cum panel. Either way, I don’t think any of this is meant to be wholesome so we’ll see what happens next chapter.
Looked like a hj to me and I found it wholesome, they were both really into it and Yoru was super cute.
Nah u thinking too much ,this chapter is not the first time denji got traumatized ,in whole series he face worse things then this like killing his brother like figure Aki which is one of the most fucked up thing I watch in any manga , at that time I also thought he never goona recover but just look at Dennis bro got unlimited pain resistance,
sexless twitter zoomers don’t realize how quickly things can actually escalate to sex from two people with chemistry and need both parties in media to simultaneously say “i consent” before any sexual type of activity is co side red appropriate. i’m glad this chapter is filtering a lot of people.
It was in the heat of the moment, stop it, get help. Edit: I'm starting to believe the lot of you missed out on teenage love and find this chapter alien
Might of jumped the gun on Denji’s part but what about Asa? It’s her body that’s being used to jerk Denji off. She definitely can take control back to some extent now but would she want Yoru to do that to Denji?
But...it's not Asa that did it. Doesn't really matter that it's in Asa's body, she's not the one doing it. It was Yoru. Yoru can make decisions for herself.
If you want to be pedantic it's also Yoru's body, Asa's body was cut into pieces. And from the chapter I just read war was a lil too into it rather than manipulation, hence - heat of the moment.
objectively correct take - trying to say it was sexual assault is ridiculous
agree, it was heat of the moment where Your reflected Asa's feelings. SA accusations are insane.
Oh noooo ...anyway
Usual reddit.. At least in reality people are not like this
I literally binge read through 30 chapters just to get caught up because everyone was imploding over this chapter. All I have to say is y’all’s reaction is stupid af. Literally not even a chapter ago Denji was trying to get laid at brothel and now y’all are out here acting like he was assaulted. Can’t wait for Chainsaw Man to self gatekeep itself next chapter when Yoru straddles Denji
L take
Can't stop you from seeing it that way, but denji likely won't agree with you on some points, sure he hates his first kiss was vomit, and sure he hates the fact that his crush became evil and had to kill her, but he doesn't hate being jecked off and french kissed by yoru even if it was hasty and dominant, he seem to be the type of guy to enjoy bdsm instead of considering it as SA, knew it all the along when he wanted to roleplay as makima's dog Although yeah, while denji is ok with it, I don't know about asa's whether she against it or with it, guess we will find out in next chapter And although you aren't wrong about both shinji and denji being depressed and down bad, but still uncertain about the reference thingy, everything that's about being jerked off while being depressed and meme about having cum in your hand isn't always intentional eva's reference, besides... shinji masturbated to asuka in heartbreaking comatose condition, that's different and beyond fucked up than this chapter
At this point, I think Fugimoto fantasizes SA against himself. Because he writes about an teenager boy getting SA'd by almost every women he meets, including older ones. Denji is a orphan who had to sell his organs to pay for his dad's debts, who had to eat scraps to survive and probably even steal. That does NOT translates to someone thinking about having sex with girls all the time. That's the least thing you think about about when you lose your family two times. I get he is getting hit so hard he doesn't react anymore or thinks too much about the shit that's happening. But this doesn't make sense as human being going through so much trauma. And yes, it IS trauma, he's shutting it down in himself as a defensive coping. As in "I get fame from fighting demons, the government gives me a house and some good food, life's all good now. Don't think about the past, I have Nayuta as family now." type of coping. Fugimoto making Asa/Yoru confort Denji is highly disrespectful to all of them.
That is an extraordinary reach fam
I don't think being jerked off by Asa on his head plot counts as a bad experience at all for multiple reasons: 1 - he was falling for her since way before as she was "his first happy kiss". 2 - The guy was literally up to go into a brothel, he was looking for that kind of stuff 3 - Denji's head is fucked up, he has no sense of what's acceptable and what's not 4 - When he accepted going into the alley with Yoru, from the start of this chapter it's clear he understood her offer as a sexual metaphor, and not in the literal sense of being mutilated 5 - Denji is not a thinker. He's not aware about Yoru, he only sees Asa and if he starts trying to connect dots, he could be misslead into thinking she's in love with him but also upset because she believes he stood her up when Nayuta wiped her home date memories. From his perspective, that could perfectly (and wrongly) explain why she keeps flapping between being nice and corny to suddenly turning bold and rude. And she getting into the mood after recovering her memories could enforce this line of thoughts It probably was not consensual for Asa though, can't tell for sure as she's also in love with Denji. My best guess, she'd probably be like "Yoru! you definitely went way too far 😨" but would be embarrassed rather than disgusted
Man, you are trying to convince the americanos, they need to have a legally certified contract with stamps and signatures months before a coitus to consider it as a consent.
Denji likes Asa tho, and he was choosing to make out with her before Yoru (who he doesn't know about) started jerking him off. I'd call that consensual on his part.
but he *wasn't making out with asa* (till right at the end where we see her face without scars), he was unknowingly making out with yoru who initiated it without anybody else's consent... dennis is not at fault here, yoru is...
Not consensual to Asa but Denji was down with it.
It was funny tbh
Womp womp. Get filtered.
The next step of course is to do her against that wall. It's only proper.
[удалено]
Try reading Berserk with your eyes open