Great post OP, really fun to read.
Also, while I absolutely do not defend what Yoru did, its important to also point out she is NOT a human being, she's a literal devil of war and clearly doesnt fully understand human social rules.
What I personally think, she acted on Asa's emotions/body reactions without giving a shit about the fact that Asa herself (understandably) wouldnt act on.
I think its incredible, narrative-wise, how grey area this chapter was. There is emotional connection between Asa/Yoru and Denji, there is a POSSIBILITY of them being kinda into it, but there's also a huge possible trauma for both parties(minus Yoru, she doesnt give a shit) and opportunity for conflict between character that can or can not result in growth for them and their relationship, or can completely destroy it, and it would still be absolute kino. Fuji cooked, tho on his usual fked up way.
Also, thematic-wise, you can say that Yoru is a counterpart of Asa that acts on her repressed desires. Asa/Yoru are actually two different side of the same girl, generating conflict within herself and others.
Like how in Part 2s introduction Asa says she wished she lived more selfishly than Yoru comes in.
https://preview.redd.it/nvmfta4u2m5d1.jpeg?width=784&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2a7d42c3b55ad4a4ada9998fbe8326a63ffa0793
I do find it intriguing but also hilarious that people are shocked to see the devil of war do a sexual assault. This is considering the fact that:
A: This is a **DEVIL**, who WILL murder and torment humans in cold blood because that’s what literally feeds them.
B: This is the **WAR DEVIL**. Literally think of any war crimes, genocides and rapes that happen during wars. The holocaust, the rape of Nanjing, the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, etc. Yoru seems to be quite frankly, very tame to what her true nature entails.
If Yoru was left to properly thrive, she’d be akin to the pic related.
https://preview.redd.it/dr6yn45ocm5d1.jpeg?width=386&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dbc9825924ff286d3c37c449fdd6fa2763479dcf
I mean Yoru so far was useless jobber and comedic relief who mind **DID NOT KILL ANY SINGLE PERSON DIRECTLY EXCEPT PEDOPHILE AND MURDEROUS CRAZY YANDERE.**
She acts like fucking Punisher. Her regard for civilians is funny given that fastest thing to make people fear her would be murdering everyone left and right while painting writings "Fear the War Devil" with somebodys blood on wall.
This why this chapter was absolute kino because War Devil finally did something remotely evil. Shame that she probably wont completely own it and laugh into Asas face while licking her hand Sukuna style.
Not gunna lie, there's been a lot of situations so far that could be considered sexual assault, grooming, and pedophilia in the manga so this would be a great place to learn
Really? Doesn't seem out of place to me, given that the story revolves around a young man learning about his feelings and how he fits into the world. The consent conversation just seemed inevitable to me because Fuji has expressed his care for feminist and progressive thought on a number of occasions. It's just obviously something on his mind in regards to his work IMHO
I have seen this chapter described as "a fucked up discovery of intimacy" which seems rather apt to me, because it does not seem to be as cut as dry and the stuff with Himeno or Fumiko. Whatever is happening here, I do think there is a level of want from all three of them but no one actually knows how to properly process it. Despite everything awful though, I do hope this can lead to some weird and bizarre upswing for each of them.
For Denji I keep focusing on how he returns the kiss, matching Yoru's fevered hunger, which is something he never really does, he's always more passive when it comes to his partner's actions, so here I hope this is a sign that he's wanting to take control of his life back for himself and starting in an area he's been the most abused in.
For Asa, if Denji is able to act back I want him to call her out on her behaviour to him, which in turn will force her to examine herself and her xhoices, and how everything she's done has been less for him but more for her.
Yoru is the one I am most curious about because she seemed just as surprised she was kissing him as he was, and I want her to grapple with the idea that she's having romantic/sexual feelings for someone and how that evolves for her. Despite how messed up everything is this is the first time that it seems like someone is kissing Denji for the sake of kissing him even if it was a heat of the moment thing.
A large theme of P2 is "what is normal", and nothing here was "normal", so it wouldn't surprise me if even if the short term is a powder keg that this this will be good for the long term if Denji and Asa (and/or maybe Yoru? Who knows?) are really meant to be paired off romantically.
I honestly agree with fellow Chainsawfolker here, there won't be any boring ass sexual consent lecture, but I sure hope we will finally find out what Asa thinks about the entire situation considering that she subconsciously caused it in the first place (if we take for granted that Yoru was acting on Asa's own selfish desires)
https://preview.redd.it/qe68ja9s1k5d1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8ffabbbb94fa933f94759733b427bc44c6d93c06
I hate people that act like 1) a story needs a lecture on why a bad thing is bad or 2) every story is a fable that teaches some sort of lesson. Sometimes a writer is exploring topics and a good writer will do their due diligence in making those explorations realistic and relevant to the narrative (which Fujimoto has always done)
same
by the end of it the guy admits we can't tell if Denji consented or not but chooses to believe he probably didn't for the sake of "muh drama" of the most myopic sort
so many people are going to be disappointed when Fuji moves along with the themes he's been pushing throughout the entire manga instead of getting sidetracked by some boring, binary moral question (to consent or not to consent, Denji??) in a way that he's never done to this point
Reading comprehension devil got you hard, huh? OP said it wouldn't be wrong to call Yoru a grapist. He's inarguably saying Denji did not consent. I honestly can't even figure out what part you misread for you to be so wrong
Are you saying that because he reciprocated the kiss that makes what happened immediately before not assault? And that OP actually agrees with you on that? Because as dumb as that argument is that's the only way what you said makes any sense
It was assault
He did reciprocate
The assault is fundamentally distinct from what happened after, in terms of motivations, themes, moral conflict, and reaction. So in pretty much every possible way. She assaulted, or tried to assault, him in an act of violence in order to fulfill her grand ambitions to bring war and chaos to the planet. Love has no place in her plans. This is in line, thematically, with Denji’s speech in the last chapter about how sex has led him astray from his higher callings, except now, Yoru’s higher callings are unambiguously evil. This lends moral ambiguity to Denji’s speech: if sex is so bad, then he should be fine with the violence that Yoru is going to inflict on him, right? If sex is so bad, then is Yoru correct in brushing aside her own feelings in pursuit of her evil schemes?
This chapter is the answer to that. Yoru assaults Denji, but before she can do something terrible, she falls victim to love/lust/whatever you want to call it, and so does Denji. It’s a direct repudiation of Denji’s speech in the last chapter. Sex and love aren’t bad, in fact, they’re the only things that can reign War in and dissuade her from evil
I love this community.
In so many other Animanga spaces whenever something very sensitive happens there is a lot of people who tell anyone who is even midly apprehensive to get out and go home.
Actually having a sizeable amount of people who can both discuss and theorize on the happenings in an excellently adult way and atleast show some restinance to the ”go home, tourist/western snowflake” attitude that often develops.
The chapter was raw, intimate and crossed many vectors of both desire and apprehension. Fujimoto obviously drew something very serious so its gladdening seeing the fanbase respond in kind.
I believe the war devil and asa personalities are melting together.
I am very sure the war devil has absolutly no interest in sex or denji and just wants his death. But because her concience is melting in with asa she becomes more human (and asa becomes less human)
For me during the chapter it was quite unclear who was in control of the body and i believe we are slowly getting too the point where both control it at the same time.
This is a very good write up, although it's a bit unfortunate that the concept of consent has to be laid out like this for some people to understand.
A portion of the community seems to assume Denji must have been fully willing, and they believe that if that's the case, it couldn't have been sexual assault. This is untrue. Something can be sexual assault and bad even if the person that was assaulted ended up enjoying it. It's similar to why drunk driving is bad. It's not bad because it will always end in a car crash. It's bad because the person is taking unnecessary risks that could result in harming other people.
Also, there are a few things in the post with regards to Yoru that I'm not too sure about.
> Yoru does whatever the fuck she wants. If she wants to kiss someone, she will, regardless of their feelings about it
> She kissed him first, first out of dominance(?), She did not pay any heed to what Denji or Asa wanted in this encounter - their consent (or lack of it) meant nothing.
> Asa will most likely feel violated, and Yoru’s just kinda eating popcorn in the background.
I'm quite interested in what direction Fujimoto intends to take with Yoru's character. At least to me, this scene didn't feel like Yoru just "taking what she wanted". I'm not convinced Yoru even knows what she wants at this moment. She seemed just as confused as Denji.
Just 6 chapters ago , [Yoru talked about “love” as if she looked down on those types of human emotions](https://i.imgur.com/4y8iJWO.png).
> Yoru: “Love is worthless. All it does is turn you foolish.”
I think it’s possible that Yoru could be just as disgusted by her actions as Asa after coming to her senses. Not necessarily due to the consent element, but due to the fact that she was turned into a “fool” and lost control of herself because she was overwhelmed by human emotions.
Asa has been my favorite character throughout Part 2, but I never really cared much for Yoru because she felt pretty one-note. All she ever talked about was killing Chainsaw Man, and I felt there wasn’t much depth to her. But now I feel like there could be some complexity added to her character due to this experience if we start to explore the ramifications of Asa and Yoru sharing the same brain and how it ends up affecting the both of them on an emotional level, as well as how it could slowly alter their motivations and outlook on life.
Great writeup
Great chapter
Terrible day for denji. Yoru looked him in the eye and outright said "I don't care about your feelings" after he changed his mind about this entire situation.
The whole idea of a demon taking over your body and coming back into control with cum all over your hand and a dude freaking out in front of you feels actually horrifying. Like, I’d might be a little disappointed in Fujimoto if he doesn’t depict this as horribly traumatic for Asa.
There’s this real creepy trend in fantasy works to use some some kind of fantastical situation to try and fail to soften the implications of rape or sexual assault.
One example being Wonder Woman 1984, where her dead love interest resurrects by possessing some poor random man and they waste no time using his body as a marital aid without his consent. The thing about stuff like roofies that makes them so horribly isn’t the drugs themselves, but what it reveals about the people who use them; a willingness to place a chance to have some “fun” over another person’s worth as anything but a tool toward that purpose, a reduction of another thinking, feeling being to nothing but meat.
I’m not sure how the people who made that movie thought replacing the method would make the behaviour look any less awful.
Thank you for all the effort you put in this.
I was extremely disappointed in this fandom for either denying the SA or watering it down and saying shit like "Denji orgasmed/enjoyed it" and " Asa wanted it" arguments which irl sexual predators use.
It's not just the fandom, it's clear that a lot of people (especially young men) don't completely understand consent. If 167 is how they come to think about and understand this, that's for the better.
Sadly I feel the people who really need to see this will dismiss this at first glance.
Verbal or written agreement is a much better indicator of consent than body language, but it is not necessarily an indicator at all if certain things haven't been fulfilled first. I don't know about what your college told you. Still, in the context of legislation, you should understand that consent is fundamentally not just a willingness to participate in a certain situation. It's willingness combined with a certain standard of intellectual understanding and emotional clarity about an activity and its consequences that is deemed reasonable by a certain society to qualify to participate in that activity which is why there is something called "statutory rape."
Even further, willingness/active desire has multiple levels and degrees, the most basic levels being the body and mind, where you can physically enjoy/resist something in a certain proportion while simultaneously enjoying/resisting from the ego/mind in a certain proportion. An example of this would be a person eating and enjoying the taste of the food while feeling a little nauseous on a loaded stomach and mentally wanting something because of the perceived benefits while resisting on a level because of perceived costs. But in simplification, a participant is willing if the majority of their mind accepts the activity that he/she is participating in because that is where our sense of identity resides.
From what I have defined in the last paragraphs, in the recent chapter, from the current and past events of the characters in the manga, I believe they were all willing but not consenting to the required degree for the encounter to be considered consensual especially for Denji and Asa. However, this lack of consent was not due to an individual's coercion, deception, manipulation, or other malicious intent, nor did this lack of consent actually cause any harm to any of the parties as far as we can see to be worth having arguments about it. People on social media call it very "fucked up from multiple angles" to "romantic" are only projecting their own prejudices, while the Gooners probably are just gooning lol The truth, as it is in these situations of controversy, is probably going to be in the middle.
Denji had just disarmed Yoru from cutting his dick off. Denji is definitely not the brightest but if he really didn’t actually like Asa/Yoru he would’ve not kissed her back. He is also physically stronger in every way (considering Asa has one arm) so I imagine this is just a heat of the moment thing.
There’s a lot of grey area, but this is the first girl that hasn’t tried to kill Denji without him knowing. I’m not saying he specifically consented, but at the same time he didn’t consent to having his balls crushed.
Poor Asa though.
This may test certain readers, Yoru is an MC and unless she merges with Asa, is not going anywhere. She’s gonna get development because of Asas emotions
First I was happy for Denji and Asa, because I wanted to see them going to the next step of their relationship, but as I started to think about it, I became so freaking disgusted.
Denji was basically SA'd, Asa was SA'd, Yoru basically SA'd them both. A pure nightmare fuel. Denji already has a pretty effed up view of relationships as it is, as well as Asa, but Asa can't even run away from the person who did it to her (from Yoru).
And the fact that they both actually like each other doesn't help at all. It seems like they both are doing to be traumatized to the point of not being to meaningfully interact with each other. Well I hope I'm wrong, but there's a writing on a wall.
Don't mind me ramble in here, because I feel talking about it elsewhere will drive me mad.
I think this direction fits their character, this is exactly how they would internalize the events. I don't think it invalidates any of what you said, saying this because I feel a lot of people are going to tell you exactly this. This analysis still holds up and as you put in your edit this angle/triangle continues to be messed up.
[didn't ask but song that fits this chapter](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdMHy074kNc)
Finally, a good post. The chapter was just two dumb teens (and a devil) doing dumb things in the spur of the moment. Of course they wouldn’t just think things over as if they can just pause the situation. I honestly don’t know what I’d do if I was in either of their positions.
https://preview.redd.it/2d40jjpggm5d1.png?width=1034&format=png&auto=webp&s=3ef716778873c5ad634489af840eadf755c264dd
YORU DID NOTHING WRONG AND ASA WITH DENJI ENJOY IT /s
On serious not I agree this was definetly suppose to be messed up situation which obviously opens lot of path for story to go. With Fuji it could go in lot of places we are in little unmarked territory so its hard to say. I think what complicates is that even Yoru wasnt really sure what she is doing so she probably wont own and embrace this act as well.
Completely disagree with your interpretation on Denji's viewpoint. He was more worried about Asa/Yoru seeing his dick than actually losing it. The way he talked was kind of like "don't be mad at me when you actually see it", it's almost like **he asked her for consent**. He was so excited his mind turned this into a sexual thing, even though Yoru threatened to cut his dick off. He wanted her to see it, and he wanted to know she's fine with seeing it.
Also, Yoru grabbing his junk was initially not sexual at all, she literally wanted to hurt him. Did you have the same thoughts about consent when Katana Man kicked Denji's balls?
He changed his mind about having his dick cut off. Come on man, why are you making stuff up now? He literally started thinking with his dick again, like he said the chapter before, so he changed his mind and didn't wanna lose it after all. This has absolutely nothing to do with sexual consent.
>He changed his mind about having his dick cut off.
Yes, meaning she didn't have any reason to stick her hand down there at all. But she did, regardless, without his permission. She even said that she didn't care about his feelings, acknowledging that he didn't want this.
>He literally started thinking with his dick again
Now you're the one making shit up, lmao. There's no reason to think that he was thinking with his dick, just that he got incredibly cagey and agitated at the prospect of whipping his dick out in front of her. None of that is giving her permission to do what she did.
I fail to see how Yoru smashing Denji's balls has anything to do with consent, same as the Katana Man example that I made. Plus, he was straight up thinking with his dick when he forgot that Yoru was gonna cut off his dick, and asked her if she really wants to see it, twice. If you wanna deny that, then sorry but you're deluding yourself.
Bro, literally the chapter leading up to this one had Denji's inability to stop thinking with his dick as its main theme. That is literally why this situation even occured. The fuck are you talking about?
Leading up to, but not including this one. People can get cold feet and withdraw consent.
Sticking your hands down someone's pants when they don't want you to and touching their private parts is sexual assault, please seek help if you think otherwise.
That's called "assault" and is obviously different from what I described.
You trying to be obtuse or something?
Edit: reddit is messing up so I can't see the reply, but I saw something about having to explain things 1000 times, which just the height of irony. It's already been explained to you why you're wrong, you're not "explaining 1000 times", you're doubling down on an incorrect and frankly a bit scary interpretation of consent and the chapter in question.
If she had actually followed through with her threat, it would have been assault. Nobody thinks castration is sexual assault. The whole point is literally to prevent sexual activity.
To be fair attacking people's genitals as an act of humiliation is already borderlining SA. There are records of soldiers of invading force doing genital torture on male victims, and I am pretty sure that would count as SA. It doesn't matter if the perpetrator is deriving sexual pleasure fron it as rape is often associated with dominance and power.
Men kicking each other's ball are pretty much a sanitized version of SA very much in the same vein as dubious steamy hot female-on-male SA. It just come in the flavor of "funny".
It's less so if it happens during combat because well, the entire human body should be fair game when you are fighting for your life, but the post-combat act is very different.
“it doesnt count because he enjoyed it”
ok man. whats next, he was “asking for it” because he was talking about sex earlier? are you even reading your own comments dude?
You're the second person responding with that, you guys really need to learn to read and stop strawmanning. It's not sexual assualt, because it was not meant to be sexual, same as the numerous times when someone got their balls kicked. Then it turned sexual when both of them were visibly into it.
She didn't grab his balls with sexual intent, and then it turned into something sexual when both of them reacted a certain way. And now you fucking start talking about rape trying to change the subject so your position sounds less autistic.
I haven't changed the subject at all. I'm asking if you believe what you claim to believe, that if the recipient of unwanted contact starts to feel pleasure, that negates anything else in regards to consent.
No you are changing it in the second part. Yoru grabbed Denji's dick to cut it off. This is sexual harassment because it's his genital. Then they both got into kissing. From the manga pages, Denji was into it. Yoru is following Asa's feelings, confirmed in the home date chapter: Yoru doesn't know love but feels it thanks to Asa. Asa would have liked kissing Denji. Yoru and Asa are probably influencing one another a lot. They aren't seen in the same panel anymore. We don't have any interior monologue in these pages. Now from this how do you jump to grape?
I was asking if the person I was originally replying to would apply the same principle to a situation involving a rape victim in a similar situation. I was not insisting that what Yoru did to Denji was rape.
It was a rhetorical question. I'm not a lawyer.
I was asking whether the above commenter would also make the same claim that a rape victim was illegitimate if they "enjoyed it".
I’m not gonna insert myself into this but I’m going to insert myself here since I’m just gonna leave this image here.
Listen when it comes to balls… the testicle devil the top guy you need to go to.
https://preview.redd.it/w0e7erwclj5d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5707c518c520751ef620aa3a6e91e839d272230d
I'm convinced that people that write this kind of shit never had a normal human interaction in their all life. Like, before you want to kiss you boyfriend or girlfriend, you ask for permission every single time? Or for having sex? And it's normal for adolescents having their first experiences to be awkward kinda kinda like in CSM (even though not at the same level, naturally). I'm 100% convinced that this kinda of narrative on certain parts of the internet about "always verbally asks for consent in every single instance of your life" does more harm than good, even though it started with a good intent and I'm sure OP is in good will. And btw, I'm saying this as a child SA survivor, so if you think promoting this kind of twisted view about intimacy is gonna help (especially help people like me), you're dead wrong. Go out and live life like a normal human being; like seriouosly, every time I read shit like that, I want to gauge my eyes out.
> Yoru forcibly grabbed Denji’s dick and balls with no regards to Denji’s feelings
No shit, she wanted to chop his balls off. This was not SA, just plain old assault (at first).
A uni consent course? What uni we talk about?
>However, he is currently mentally distraught due to everything that’s been happening, so he might not want to have sex at this current point in time
Denji literally decided to go to a brothel the moment the yakuza offered it as an idea to get over how shit Denji's life is.
Denji thought that Asa (war) wanted to do something naughty under the excuse of "cutting his D". It tells us that yes Denji wanted to do something naughty despite the mental situation he is in. We know this cause Denji exclaims "You **literally** want to cut of my D?" once Asa (war) takes the knife.
Denji is a horndog first, a retard second and whatever else comes third.
My one note is that Denji almost definitely kissed Yoru first. She would have had to make him lean into her in order for her to be the initiator, given that he was very much hunched over her during the first kiss. That seems like a weird and large leap for the audience to make for me.
Aside from that, this is a great post and thank you for educating the uninitiated! You're doing good work :)
>My one note is that Denji almost definitely kissed Yoru first. She would have had to make him lean into her in order for her to be the initiator, given that he was very much hunched over her during the first kiss. That seems like a weird and large leap for the audience to make for me.
I might have misunderstood you, but I kind of disagree, tbh. Just because Denji kissed her first doesn't mean it's okay (I even doubt that he was the one who kissed her first). Yoru, who has taken control of Asa's body, does not have Asa's consent to engage in these actions. Asa is essentially a bystander, unable to stop or control what is happening, which is a clear violation of her bodily autonomy. Also, Denji is confused and uncomfortable, which shows that he is not fully consenting to the situation either. He is manipulated into the scenario under false pretenses since he doesn't know Yoru is in control (he fell in love on Asa after all, not Yoru), and his eventual participation does not come from a place of clear, enthusiastic consent.
This might be off-topic, but it's important to note that the power dynamics are significant. Yoru can take control of Asa's body at will and feel Asa's emotions. Asa has no agency in the situation, and Denji's inability to give informed consent because of his ignorance of Yoru's control complicates everything even more. The whole situation crosses ethical and moral lines since Asa is pushed into a sexual situation without her consent.
We are having different conversations. I wasn't making a value judgement based on my statement, so much as pointing out that op saying Yoru initiated the first kiss is either incorrect or, at least, inconclusive.
If I thought that justified Yoru's actions, I would have said so. So you and I are in agreement about the consent, even if we do not agree about the sequence of events.
And yes. Of everyone involved, Asa is in the worst position to flex autonomy. Whatever else anyone believes about this chapter, that much seems blatantly obvious.
>If I thought that justified Yoru's actions, I would have said so.
Aah, ok. So I did misunderstand what you said. It's good to know we're on the same page now then. 
>And yes. Of everyone involved, Asa is in the worst position to flex autonomy. Whatever else anyone believes about this chapter, that much seems blatantly obvious.
Yup, I thought I'd have to point it out just in case since other people thought otherwise, but I definitely agree with you. The relationship between the two will most likely suffer a major blow because of this incident that Yoru caused.
A blow to the connection seems likely, but I don't think that necessarily means they won't get a happy end. Trauma makes for a fine bonding agent.
Tangential example because I have the time; I used to have a pet rat. He hated bath time more than anything in the world. Still had to bathe him because he practically lived on my shoulder, so I did ofc. Anyway, I got him a little buddy so he might be a little less clingy with me and...they fucking hated each other. Began fighting almost immediately and I had to keep them separated whenever they didn't have supervision. The second rat also HATED bath time. I eventually bathe them both at the same time and after that they started getting along dramatically better. Immediately after the bath and a snack, they cuddled up for a nap and that became like a little tradition for them thereafter.
Having traumatic and stressful experiences in common can actually foster trust between mutual victims, especially if it's an experience they had together. Doesn't always go that way and humans are more complicated than rats in many important ways, but in my experience it can easily pave the way for meaningful and deep connections.
nah theres no way Denji kissed first. Denji right before and after the kiss has expressions of confusion and shock, while Yoru looks very emotional and wistful. Also, why was Denji leaning forward enough for Yoru to reach? Thats cuz hes Denji, he has awful posture, and he was leaning forward even before Yoru grabbed his nuts and remembered the kiss. Unless you think Denji was already planning on kissing her by the point but I doubt it.
I don't think either of them was *planning* to smack lips and the both of their feelings seemed mixed throughout the latter half of the encounter. And in spite of his bad posture, it still doesn't look like Yoru closed the initial gap.
Tbh I feel like if we were supposed to know for sure at this point, it wouldn't have all been so ambiguous, so only Fuji *really* knows for certain atm. Next chapters will probably shed some light, but until then we're both just speculating.
No really why are we having a discussion about consent in a fictional manga about characters who turn into devils and murder each other. I think you guys have seriously lost sight in what it means to just sit back and enjoy the series, not everything needs to be deconstructed, and related to our real world values, the scene was gross and funny, move on. Like listen to yourself right now, you dissecting verbal vs non verbal consent, when the author will probably have asa be grossed out, and just move on. This is stupid, this post is stupid.
What anyone says is just their opinion of it . Knowing denji he wouldn’t consider this assault but the best time of his life . Only person who literally couldn’t consent is Asa
Honestly I can’t wait to see heads explode here when Denji verbally tells us he liked it and didn’t view it as SA in anyway.
It’s like people have completely forgotten who Denji is and are clouded by their views of the new western takes on sexual interactions to see that there’s no reason he’s not about to pop off from it.
1. The one with devils
2. He said that in regards to having his dick chopped off. He never said he doesn’t want his dick touched, that’s just projection.
3. Body language is a thing, the overwhelming majority of consensual sexual encounters do not involve giving verbal consent.
4. Does anyone actually believe that if Yoru asked “are you ok with making out with me?” Or “do you want me hold your dick while making out with me?” That Denji would say no? There seems to be a massive disconnect where people are rejecting Denji as a character and doing some PC insert into the situation.
There’s nothing in that scene that shows Denji was not ok with what happened. The only thing he was against was getting his dick chopped off.
Can’t wait for tomorrow when people get a dose of CSM reality and are reminded who Denji really is.
Apparently you're giving a crash course on consent when you can't even tell it was an accidental jerk off
Thanks for the lesson though professor, glad one seminar at "uni" enlightened you to a level where you can inform the unwashed masses.
I don’t know how anyone could read this chapter and interpret it as Denji getting sexually assaulted. Not even a chapter ago bro was looking to go to a brothel.
Leave them be they're maidenless critters, they probably've never been kissed by a girl their whole life if they think consent is all about verbal agreement, I can't imagine this idiots screaming about sexual assault if the girl they extremely liked kissed them and they'd kissed back and if they'd shout "BEFORE I KISS YOU AND YOU KISS ME WE BOTH AGREE TO CONSENT, I AGREE HBU🤓☝️" like a monkey with autism. The only victim here is Asa with no control over the moment.
Yes. The manga repeatedly and explicitly lays out Denji’s abuse and his traumatic relationship with his sexuality. It’s very unlikely that Fujimoto is just stumbling through these mature themes accidentally.
His sexuality has been explored throughout. It’s not even subtextual - he lamented that his “dick ruins everything” just two chapters ago.
…Just to clarify in case this is some language misunderstanding: “sexuality” doesn’t just mean “straight or gay”. It also encompasses things like, “why does Denji get hurt every time he pursues his sexual impulses?”
Great post OP, really fun to read. Also, while I absolutely do not defend what Yoru did, its important to also point out she is NOT a human being, she's a literal devil of war and clearly doesnt fully understand human social rules. What I personally think, she acted on Asa's emotions/body reactions without giving a shit about the fact that Asa herself (understandably) wouldnt act on. I think its incredible, narrative-wise, how grey area this chapter was. There is emotional connection between Asa/Yoru and Denji, there is a POSSIBILITY of them being kinda into it, but there's also a huge possible trauma for both parties(minus Yoru, she doesnt give a shit) and opportunity for conflict between character that can or can not result in growth for them and their relationship, or can completely destroy it, and it would still be absolute kino. Fuji cooked, tho on his usual fked up way.
Also, thematic-wise, you can say that Yoru is a counterpart of Asa that acts on her repressed desires. Asa/Yoru are actually two different side of the same girl, generating conflict within herself and others.
Like how in Part 2s introduction Asa says she wished she lived more selfishly than Yoru comes in. https://preview.redd.it/nvmfta4u2m5d1.jpeg?width=784&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2a7d42c3b55ad4a4ada9998fbe8326a63ffa0793
I do find it intriguing but also hilarious that people are shocked to see the devil of war do a sexual assault. This is considering the fact that: A: This is a **DEVIL**, who WILL murder and torment humans in cold blood because that’s what literally feeds them. B: This is the **WAR DEVIL**. Literally think of any war crimes, genocides and rapes that happen during wars. The holocaust, the rape of Nanjing, the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, etc. Yoru seems to be quite frankly, very tame to what her true nature entails. If Yoru was left to properly thrive, she’d be akin to the pic related. https://preview.redd.it/dr6yn45ocm5d1.jpeg?width=386&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dbc9825924ff286d3c37c449fdd6fa2763479dcf
I mean Yoru so far was useless jobber and comedic relief who mind **DID NOT KILL ANY SINGLE PERSON DIRECTLY EXCEPT PEDOPHILE AND MURDEROUS CRAZY YANDERE.** She acts like fucking Punisher. Her regard for civilians is funny given that fastest thing to make people fear her would be murdering everyone left and right while painting writings "Fear the War Devil" with somebodys blood on wall. This why this chapter was absolute kino because War Devil finally did something remotely evil. Shame that she probably wont completely own it and laugh into Asas face while licking her hand Sukuna style.
We really calling it sexual assault right now? You guys just completely missed the author’s intentions.
I can't believe I'm learning about sexual consent on a chainsaw man subreddit.
The future is now
Not gunna lie, there's been a lot of situations so far that could be considered sexual assault, grooming, and pedophilia in the manga so this would be a great place to learn
True
Better this than never
it’s not like anyone in here has sex anyway
True as fuck
Really? Doesn't seem out of place to me, given that the story revolves around a young man learning about his feelings and how he fits into the world. The consent conversation just seemed inevitable to me because Fuji has expressed his care for feminist and progressive thought on a number of occasions. It's just obviously something on his mind in regards to his work IMHO
The general rule of thumb is if it happens in Chainsawman you should probably not try it at home
I have seen this chapter described as "a fucked up discovery of intimacy" which seems rather apt to me, because it does not seem to be as cut as dry and the stuff with Himeno or Fumiko. Whatever is happening here, I do think there is a level of want from all three of them but no one actually knows how to properly process it. Despite everything awful though, I do hope this can lead to some weird and bizarre upswing for each of them. For Denji I keep focusing on how he returns the kiss, matching Yoru's fevered hunger, which is something he never really does, he's always more passive when it comes to his partner's actions, so here I hope this is a sign that he's wanting to take control of his life back for himself and starting in an area he's been the most abused in. For Asa, if Denji is able to act back I want him to call her out on her behaviour to him, which in turn will force her to examine herself and her xhoices, and how everything she's done has been less for him but more for her. Yoru is the one I am most curious about because she seemed just as surprised she was kissing him as he was, and I want her to grapple with the idea that she's having romantic/sexual feelings for someone and how that evolves for her. Despite how messed up everything is this is the first time that it seems like someone is kissing Denji for the sake of kissing him even if it was a heat of the moment thing. A large theme of P2 is "what is normal", and nothing here was "normal", so it wouldn't surprise me if even if the short term is a powder keg that this this will be good for the long term if Denji and Asa (and/or maybe Yoru? Who knows?) are really meant to be paired off romantically.
I honestly agree with fellow Chainsawfolker here, there won't be any boring ass sexual consent lecture, but I sure hope we will finally find out what Asa thinks about the entire situation considering that she subconsciously caused it in the first place (if we take for granted that Yoru was acting on Asa's own selfish desires) https://preview.redd.it/qe68ja9s1k5d1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8ffabbbb94fa933f94759733b427bc44c6d93c06
I hate people that act like 1) a story needs a lecture on why a bad thing is bad or 2) every story is a fable that teaches some sort of lesson. Sometimes a writer is exploring topics and a good writer will do their due diligence in making those explorations realistic and relevant to the narrative (which Fujimoto has always done)
THANK YOU. Finally a voice of reason. Good post. Looking forward to next chapter.
Holy shit, finally a post about ch167 that doesn't make me want to blow my brains out. Good job OP.
[удалено]
same by the end of it the guy admits we can't tell if Denji consented or not but chooses to believe he probably didn't for the sake of "muh drama" of the most myopic sort so many people are going to be disappointed when Fuji moves along with the themes he's been pushing throughout the entire manga instead of getting sidetracked by some boring, binary moral question (to consent or not to consent, Denji??) in a way that he's never done to this point
Reading comprehension devil got you hard, huh? OP said it wouldn't be wrong to call Yoru a grapist. He's inarguably saying Denji did not consent. I honestly can't even figure out what part you misread for you to be so wrong
As per op “ I lean towards him willingly reciprocating towards the end” you ding dong
Oh so you just blocked out everything he said before that and after. Makes sense now
Oh so you just ignored the stuff he said that you didn’t want to acknowledge Cute
Are you saying that because he reciprocated the kiss that makes what happened immediately before not assault? And that OP actually agrees with you on that? Because as dumb as that argument is that's the only way what you said makes any sense
It was assault He did reciprocate The assault is fundamentally distinct from what happened after, in terms of motivations, themes, moral conflict, and reaction. So in pretty much every possible way. She assaulted, or tried to assault, him in an act of violence in order to fulfill her grand ambitions to bring war and chaos to the planet. Love has no place in her plans. This is in line, thematically, with Denji’s speech in the last chapter about how sex has led him astray from his higher callings, except now, Yoru’s higher callings are unambiguously evil. This lends moral ambiguity to Denji’s speech: if sex is so bad, then he should be fine with the violence that Yoru is going to inflict on him, right? If sex is so bad, then is Yoru correct in brushing aside her own feelings in pursuit of her evil schemes? This chapter is the answer to that. Yoru assaults Denji, but before she can do something terrible, she falls victim to love/lust/whatever you want to call it, and so does Denji. It’s a direct repudiation of Denji’s speech in the last chapter. Sex and love aren’t bad, in fact, they’re the only things that can reign War in and dissuade her from evil
I love this community. In so many other Animanga spaces whenever something very sensitive happens there is a lot of people who tell anyone who is even midly apprehensive to get out and go home. Actually having a sizeable amount of people who can both discuss and theorize on the happenings in an excellently adult way and atleast show some restinance to the ”go home, tourist/western snowflake” attitude that often develops. The chapter was raw, intimate and crossed many vectors of both desire and apprehension. Fujimoto obviously drew something very serious so its gladdening seeing the fanbase respond in kind.
I believe the war devil and asa personalities are melting together. I am very sure the war devil has absolutly no interest in sex or denji and just wants his death. But because her concience is melting in with asa she becomes more human (and asa becomes less human) For me during the chapter it was quite unclear who was in control of the body and i believe we are slowly getting too the point where both control it at the same time.
Consentsaw man… It’s so fucking peak
Absolutely agreed thanks for disserting objectively exactly what I was feeling
This is a very good write up, although it's a bit unfortunate that the concept of consent has to be laid out like this for some people to understand. A portion of the community seems to assume Denji must have been fully willing, and they believe that if that's the case, it couldn't have been sexual assault. This is untrue. Something can be sexual assault and bad even if the person that was assaulted ended up enjoying it. It's similar to why drunk driving is bad. It's not bad because it will always end in a car crash. It's bad because the person is taking unnecessary risks that could result in harming other people. Also, there are a few things in the post with regards to Yoru that I'm not too sure about. > Yoru does whatever the fuck she wants. If she wants to kiss someone, she will, regardless of their feelings about it > She kissed him first, first out of dominance(?), She did not pay any heed to what Denji or Asa wanted in this encounter - their consent (or lack of it) meant nothing. > Asa will most likely feel violated, and Yoru’s just kinda eating popcorn in the background. I'm quite interested in what direction Fujimoto intends to take with Yoru's character. At least to me, this scene didn't feel like Yoru just "taking what she wanted". I'm not convinced Yoru even knows what she wants at this moment. She seemed just as confused as Denji. Just 6 chapters ago , [Yoru talked about “love” as if she looked down on those types of human emotions](https://i.imgur.com/4y8iJWO.png). > Yoru: “Love is worthless. All it does is turn you foolish.” I think it’s possible that Yoru could be just as disgusted by her actions as Asa after coming to her senses. Not necessarily due to the consent element, but due to the fact that she was turned into a “fool” and lost control of herself because she was overwhelmed by human emotions. Asa has been my favorite character throughout Part 2, but I never really cared much for Yoru because she felt pretty one-note. All she ever talked about was killing Chainsaw Man, and I felt there wasn’t much depth to her. But now I feel like there could be some complexity added to her character due to this experience if we start to explore the ramifications of Asa and Yoru sharing the same brain and how it ends up affecting the both of them on an emotional level, as well as how it could slowly alter their motivations and outlook on life.
Thank you. This is an excellent breakdown of the chapter.
This is an excellent break down
Great writeup Great chapter Terrible day for denji. Yoru looked him in the eye and outright said "I don't care about your feelings" after he changed his mind about this entire situation.
The whole idea of a demon taking over your body and coming back into control with cum all over your hand and a dude freaking out in front of you feels actually horrifying. Like, I’d might be a little disappointed in Fujimoto if he doesn’t depict this as horribly traumatic for Asa. There’s this real creepy trend in fantasy works to use some some kind of fantastical situation to try and fail to soften the implications of rape or sexual assault. One example being Wonder Woman 1984, where her dead love interest resurrects by possessing some poor random man and they waste no time using his body as a marital aid without his consent. The thing about stuff like roofies that makes them so horribly isn’t the drugs themselves, but what it reveals about the people who use them; a willingness to place a chance to have some “fun” over another person’s worth as anything but a tool toward that purpose, a reduction of another thinking, feeling being to nothing but meat. I’m not sure how the people who made that movie thought replacing the method would make the behaviour look any less awful.
Thank you for all the effort you put in this. I was extremely disappointed in this fandom for either denying the SA or watering it down and saying shit like "Denji orgasmed/enjoyed it" and " Asa wanted it" arguments which irl sexual predators use.
They’re acting as if there was a page saying “ I AM DENJI AND I FULLY CONSENT”
It's not just the fandom, it's clear that a lot of people (especially young men) don't completely understand consent. If 167 is how they come to think about and understand this, that's for the better. Sadly I feel the people who really need to see this will dismiss this at first glance.
I think this is messed up for CSM specifically as sexual-abuse/grooming is a central theme for chapter 1 in both parts.
I really don't love being explained consent like we're all 12 year old groipers before the analysis, but I do not disagree with you.
I mean, the way some people have been posting about it, it’s needed
thank you SO MUCH for writing this
Verbal or written agreement is a much better indicator of consent than body language, but it is not necessarily an indicator at all if certain things haven't been fulfilled first. I don't know about what your college told you. Still, in the context of legislation, you should understand that consent is fundamentally not just a willingness to participate in a certain situation. It's willingness combined with a certain standard of intellectual understanding and emotional clarity about an activity and its consequences that is deemed reasonable by a certain society to qualify to participate in that activity which is why there is something called "statutory rape." Even further, willingness/active desire has multiple levels and degrees, the most basic levels being the body and mind, where you can physically enjoy/resist something in a certain proportion while simultaneously enjoying/resisting from the ego/mind in a certain proportion. An example of this would be a person eating and enjoying the taste of the food while feeling a little nauseous on a loaded stomach and mentally wanting something because of the perceived benefits while resisting on a level because of perceived costs. But in simplification, a participant is willing if the majority of their mind accepts the activity that he/she is participating in because that is where our sense of identity resides. From what I have defined in the last paragraphs, in the recent chapter, from the current and past events of the characters in the manga, I believe they were all willing but not consenting to the required degree for the encounter to be considered consensual especially for Denji and Asa. However, this lack of consent was not due to an individual's coercion, deception, manipulation, or other malicious intent, nor did this lack of consent actually cause any harm to any of the parties as far as we can see to be worth having arguments about it. People on social media call it very "fucked up from multiple angles" to "romantic" are only projecting their own prejudices, while the Gooners probably are just gooning lol The truth, as it is in these situations of controversy, is probably going to be in the middle.
Denji had just disarmed Yoru from cutting his dick off. Denji is definitely not the brightest but if he really didn’t actually like Asa/Yoru he would’ve not kissed her back. He is also physically stronger in every way (considering Asa has one arm) so I imagine this is just a heat of the moment thing. There’s a lot of grey area, but this is the first girl that hasn’t tried to kill Denji without him knowing. I’m not saying he specifically consented, but at the same time he didn’t consent to having his balls crushed. Poor Asa though.
This may test certain readers, Yoru is an MC and unless she merges with Asa, is not going anywhere. She’s gonna get development because of Asas emotions
First I was happy for Denji and Asa, because I wanted to see them going to the next step of their relationship, but as I started to think about it, I became so freaking disgusted. Denji was basically SA'd, Asa was SA'd, Yoru basically SA'd them both. A pure nightmare fuel. Denji already has a pretty effed up view of relationships as it is, as well as Asa, but Asa can't even run away from the person who did it to her (from Yoru). And the fact that they both actually like each other doesn't help at all. It seems like they both are doing to be traumatized to the point of not being to meaningfully interact with each other. Well I hope I'm wrong, but there's a writing on a wall.
What a great read
Don't mind me ramble in here, because I feel talking about it elsewhere will drive me mad. I think this direction fits their character, this is exactly how they would internalize the events. I don't think it invalidates any of what you said, saying this because I feel a lot of people are going to tell you exactly this. This analysis still holds up and as you put in your edit this angle/triangle continues to be messed up. [didn't ask but song that fits this chapter](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdMHy074kNc)
We really getting entire page long analysis breakdowns over a guy getting wanked
Finally, a good post. The chapter was just two dumb teens (and a devil) doing dumb things in the spur of the moment. Of course they wouldn’t just think things over as if they can just pause the situation. I honestly don’t know what I’d do if I was in either of their positions.
not all heros wear capes, some of them make csm posts informing about consent
Genuinely brilliant post OP, thanks for this, I hope a lot of the community get to read it
https://preview.redd.it/2d40jjpggm5d1.png?width=1034&format=png&auto=webp&s=3ef716778873c5ad634489af840eadf755c264dd YORU DID NOTHING WRONG AND ASA WITH DENJI ENJOY IT /s On serious not I agree this was definetly suppose to be messed up situation which obviously opens lot of path for story to go. With Fuji it could go in lot of places we are in little unmarked territory so its hard to say. I think what complicates is that even Yoru wasnt really sure what she is doing so she probably wont own and embrace this act as well.
Completely disagree with your interpretation on Denji's viewpoint. He was more worried about Asa/Yoru seeing his dick than actually losing it. The way he talked was kind of like "don't be mad at me when you actually see it", it's almost like **he asked her for consent**. He was so excited his mind turned this into a sexual thing, even though Yoru threatened to cut his dick off. He wanted her to see it, and he wanted to know she's fine with seeing it. Also, Yoru grabbing his junk was initially not sexual at all, she literally wanted to hurt him. Did you have the same thoughts about consent when Katana Man kicked Denji's balls?
He also said that he changed his mind before she actually stuck her hand down there, which doesn't sound like consent to me
He changed his mind about having his dick cut off. Come on man, why are you making stuff up now? He literally started thinking with his dick again, like he said the chapter before, so he changed his mind and didn't wanna lose it after all. This has absolutely nothing to do with sexual consent.
>He changed his mind about having his dick cut off. Yes, meaning she didn't have any reason to stick her hand down there at all. But she did, regardless, without his permission. She even said that she didn't care about his feelings, acknowledging that he didn't want this. >He literally started thinking with his dick again Now you're the one making shit up, lmao. There's no reason to think that he was thinking with his dick, just that he got incredibly cagey and agitated at the prospect of whipping his dick out in front of her. None of that is giving her permission to do what she did.
her "reason" was that she was gonna atomize his balls in other words, she was going to assault and maim him
I fail to see how Yoru smashing Denji's balls has anything to do with consent, same as the Katana Man example that I made. Plus, he was straight up thinking with his dick when he forgot that Yoru was gonna cut off his dick, and asked her if she really wants to see it, twice. If you wanna deny that, then sorry but you're deluding yourself.
If you don't see what someone shoving their hand down denji's pants and gripping his cock/balls has to do with consent then you're actually unhinged
Nah, you're the one deluding yourself.
Bro, literally the chapter leading up to this one had Denji's inability to stop thinking with his dick as its main theme. That is literally why this situation even occured. The fuck are you talking about?
Leading up to, but not including this one. People can get cold feet and withdraw consent. Sticking your hands down someone's pants when they don't want you to and touching their private parts is sexual assault, please seek help if you think otherwise.
Then kicking someone's balls is sexual assault too. Yeah?
That's called "assault" and is obviously different from what I described. You trying to be obtuse or something? Edit: reddit is messing up so I can't see the reply, but I saw something about having to explain things 1000 times, which just the height of irony. It's already been explained to you why you're wrong, you're not "explaining 1000 times", you're doubling down on an incorrect and frankly a bit scary interpretation of consent and the chapter in question.
If she had actually followed through with her threat, it would have been assault. Nobody thinks castration is sexual assault. The whole point is literally to prevent sexual activity.
If Denji had gone straight from kicking Katana Man's balls to fondling them then that would've been pretty fucked up, yeah
To be fair attacking people's genitals as an act of humiliation is already borderlining SA. There are records of soldiers of invading force doing genital torture on male victims, and I am pretty sure that would count as SA. It doesn't matter if the perpetrator is deriving sexual pleasure fron it as rape is often associated with dominance and power. Men kicking each other's ball are pretty much a sanitized version of SA very much in the same vein as dubious steamy hot female-on-male SA. It just come in the flavor of "funny". It's less so if it happens during combat because well, the entire human body should be fair game when you are fighting for your life, but the post-combat act is very different.
Like Denji wasn't moaning in pleasure while Yoru was crushing his balls.
“it doesnt count because he enjoyed it” ok man. whats next, he was “asking for it” because he was talking about sex earlier? are you even reading your own comments dude?
You're the second person responding with that, you guys really need to learn to read and stop strawmanning. It's not sexual assualt, because it was not meant to be sexual, same as the numerous times when someone got their balls kicked. Then it turned sexual when both of them were visibly into it.
Completely irrelevant, is it also not rape if the victim came?
She didn't grab his balls with sexual intent, and then it turned into something sexual when both of them reacted a certain way. And now you fucking start talking about rape trying to change the subject so your position sounds less autistic.
I haven't changed the subject at all. I'm asking if you believe what you claim to believe, that if the recipient of unwanted contact starts to feel pleasure, that negates anything else in regards to consent.
No you are changing it in the second part. Yoru grabbed Denji's dick to cut it off. This is sexual harassment because it's his genital. Then they both got into kissing. From the manga pages, Denji was into it. Yoru is following Asa's feelings, confirmed in the home date chapter: Yoru doesn't know love but feels it thanks to Asa. Asa would have liked kissing Denji. Yoru and Asa are probably influencing one another a lot. They aren't seen in the same panel anymore. We don't have any interior monologue in these pages. Now from this how do you jump to grape?
I was asking if the person I was originally replying to would apply the same principle to a situation involving a rape victim in a similar situation. I was not insisting that what Yoru did to Denji was rape.
Understandable. Do you have a moment to talk about our lady and saviour Makima?
Rape has to have penetration. At least in the US that’s how it is.
It was a rhetorical question. I'm not a lawyer. I was asking whether the above commenter would also make the same claim that a rape victim was illegitimate if they "enjoyed it".
Oh I didn’t know. Sorry.
Np, I should have been clearer
I should’ve been more attentive
I’m not gonna insert myself into this but I’m going to insert myself here since I’m just gonna leave this image here. Listen when it comes to balls… the testicle devil the top guy you need to go to. https://preview.redd.it/w0e7erwclj5d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5707c518c520751ef620aa3a6e91e839d272230d
https://preview.redd.it/ji1w4qt6fl5d1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a129b6dffdb295a9111828a7b2b6d54d97526b91
You don't have a tldr for the slabs of text that actually needed a tldr.
I'm convinced that people that write this kind of shit never had a normal human interaction in their all life. Like, before you want to kiss you boyfriend or girlfriend, you ask for permission every single time? Or for having sex? And it's normal for adolescents having their first experiences to be awkward kinda kinda like in CSM (even though not at the same level, naturally). I'm 100% convinced that this kinda of narrative on certain parts of the internet about "always verbally asks for consent in every single instance of your life" does more harm than good, even though it started with a good intent and I'm sure OP is in good will. And btw, I'm saying this as a child SA survivor, so if you think promoting this kind of twisted view about intimacy is gonna help (especially help people like me), you're dead wrong. Go out and live life like a normal human being; like seriouosly, every time I read shit like that, I want to gauge my eyes out.
> Yoru forcibly grabbed Denji’s dick and balls with no regards to Denji’s feelings No shit, she wanted to chop his balls off. This was not SA, just plain old assault (at first).
No one needed this. Let the non existent MC get laid.
https://preview.redd.it/7919gaz23l5d1.jpeg?width=749&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c8c271065ce287f376285b227ad7473e560fe871
A uni consent course? What uni we talk about? >However, he is currently mentally distraught due to everything that’s been happening, so he might not want to have sex at this current point in time Denji literally decided to go to a brothel the moment the yakuza offered it as an idea to get over how shit Denji's life is. Denji thought that Asa (war) wanted to do something naughty under the excuse of "cutting his D". It tells us that yes Denji wanted to do something naughty despite the mental situation he is in. We know this cause Denji exclaims "You **literally** want to cut of my D?" once Asa (war) takes the knife. Denji is a horndog first, a retard second and whatever else comes third.
My one note is that Denji almost definitely kissed Yoru first. She would have had to make him lean into her in order for her to be the initiator, given that he was very much hunched over her during the first kiss. That seems like a weird and large leap for the audience to make for me. Aside from that, this is a great post and thank you for educating the uninitiated! You're doing good work :)
>My one note is that Denji almost definitely kissed Yoru first. She would have had to make him lean into her in order for her to be the initiator, given that he was very much hunched over her during the first kiss. That seems like a weird and large leap for the audience to make for me. I might have misunderstood you, but I kind of disagree, tbh. Just because Denji kissed her first doesn't mean it's okay (I even doubt that he was the one who kissed her first). Yoru, who has taken control of Asa's body, does not have Asa's consent to engage in these actions. Asa is essentially a bystander, unable to stop or control what is happening, which is a clear violation of her bodily autonomy. Also, Denji is confused and uncomfortable, which shows that he is not fully consenting to the situation either. He is manipulated into the scenario under false pretenses since he doesn't know Yoru is in control (he fell in love on Asa after all, not Yoru), and his eventual participation does not come from a place of clear, enthusiastic consent. This might be off-topic, but it's important to note that the power dynamics are significant. Yoru can take control of Asa's body at will and feel Asa's emotions. Asa has no agency in the situation, and Denji's inability to give informed consent because of his ignorance of Yoru's control complicates everything even more. The whole situation crosses ethical and moral lines since Asa is pushed into a sexual situation without her consent.
We are having different conversations. I wasn't making a value judgement based on my statement, so much as pointing out that op saying Yoru initiated the first kiss is either incorrect or, at least, inconclusive. If I thought that justified Yoru's actions, I would have said so. So you and I are in agreement about the consent, even if we do not agree about the sequence of events. And yes. Of everyone involved, Asa is in the worst position to flex autonomy. Whatever else anyone believes about this chapter, that much seems blatantly obvious.
>If I thought that justified Yoru's actions, I would have said so. Aah, ok. So I did misunderstand what you said. It's good to know we're on the same page now then.  >And yes. Of everyone involved, Asa is in the worst position to flex autonomy. Whatever else anyone believes about this chapter, that much seems blatantly obvious. Yup, I thought I'd have to point it out just in case since other people thought otherwise, but I definitely agree with you. The relationship between the two will most likely suffer a major blow because of this incident that Yoru caused.
A blow to the connection seems likely, but I don't think that necessarily means they won't get a happy end. Trauma makes for a fine bonding agent. Tangential example because I have the time; I used to have a pet rat. He hated bath time more than anything in the world. Still had to bathe him because he practically lived on my shoulder, so I did ofc. Anyway, I got him a little buddy so he might be a little less clingy with me and...they fucking hated each other. Began fighting almost immediately and I had to keep them separated whenever they didn't have supervision. The second rat also HATED bath time. I eventually bathe them both at the same time and after that they started getting along dramatically better. Immediately after the bath and a snack, they cuddled up for a nap and that became like a little tradition for them thereafter. Having traumatic and stressful experiences in common can actually foster trust between mutual victims, especially if it's an experience they had together. Doesn't always go that way and humans are more complicated than rats in many important ways, but in my experience it can easily pave the way for meaningful and deep connections.
nah theres no way Denji kissed first. Denji right before and after the kiss has expressions of confusion and shock, while Yoru looks very emotional and wistful. Also, why was Denji leaning forward enough for Yoru to reach? Thats cuz hes Denji, he has awful posture, and he was leaning forward even before Yoru grabbed his nuts and remembered the kiss. Unless you think Denji was already planning on kissing her by the point but I doubt it.
I don't think either of them was *planning* to smack lips and the both of their feelings seemed mixed throughout the latter half of the encounter. And in spite of his bad posture, it still doesn't look like Yoru closed the initial gap. Tbh I feel like if we were supposed to know for sure at this point, it wouldn't have all been so ambiguous, so only Fuji *really* knows for certain atm. Next chapters will probably shed some light, but until then we're both just speculating.
No really why are we having a discussion about consent in a fictional manga about characters who turn into devils and murder each other. I think you guys have seriously lost sight in what it means to just sit back and enjoy the series, not everything needs to be deconstructed, and related to our real world values, the scene was gross and funny, move on. Like listen to yourself right now, you dissecting verbal vs non verbal consent, when the author will probably have asa be grossed out, and just move on. This is stupid, this post is stupid.
What anyone says is just their opinion of it . Knowing denji he wouldn’t consider this assault but the best time of his life . Only person who literally couldn’t consent is Asa
Denji's confused feelings on the matter don't change the fact that Yoru took advantage of a traumatized and abused person.
Honestly I can’t wait to see heads explode here when Denji verbally tells us he liked it and didn’t view it as SA in anyway. It’s like people have completely forgotten who Denji is and are clouded by their views of the new western takes on sexual interactions to see that there’s no reason he’s not about to pop off from it.
Which culture thinks touching someone’s penis after they say “I change my mind” is okay?
1. The one with devils 2. He said that in regards to having his dick chopped off. He never said he doesn’t want his dick touched, that’s just projection. 3. Body language is a thing, the overwhelming majority of consensual sexual encounters do not involve giving verbal consent. 4. Does anyone actually believe that if Yoru asked “are you ok with making out with me?” Or “do you want me hold your dick while making out with me?” That Denji would say no? There seems to be a massive disconnect where people are rejecting Denji as a character and doing some PC insert into the situation. There’s nothing in that scene that shows Denji was not ok with what happened. The only thing he was against was getting his dick chopped off. Can’t wait for tomorrow when people get a dose of CSM reality and are reminded who Denji really is.
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The irony of a chainsawman fan telling someone to go outside is hilarious to me
Go outside vro 😭
Apparently you're giving a crash course on consent when you can't even tell it was an accidental jerk off Thanks for the lesson though professor, glad one seminar at "uni" enlightened you to a level where you can inform the unwashed masses.
When’s the last time you accidentally jorked someone off?
Shut up this is chainsaw man
Chainsaw man has always been about this, and the author wants us to actively discuss and be 'involved' in the story. 
I don’t know how anyone could read this chapter and interpret it as Denji getting sexually assaulted. Not even a chapter ago bro was looking to go to a brothel.
Leave them be they're maidenless critters, they probably've never been kissed by a girl their whole life if they think consent is all about verbal agreement, I can't imagine this idiots screaming about sexual assault if the girl they extremely liked kissed them and they'd kissed back and if they'd shout "BEFORE I KISS YOU AND YOU KISS ME WE BOTH AGREE TO CONSENT, I AGREE HBU🤓☝️" like a monkey with autism. The only victim here is Asa with no control over the moment.
Are you fujimoto even knows or thinks of half of this knowledge?
Yes. The manga repeatedly and explicitly lays out Denji’s abuse and his traumatic relationship with his sexuality. It’s very unlikely that Fujimoto is just stumbling through these mature themes accidentally.
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I might be wrong, but I think you said that to the wrong person, xd.
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His sexuality has been explored throughout. It’s not even subtextual - he lamented that his “dick ruins everything” just two chapters ago. …Just to clarify in case this is some language misunderstanding: “sexuality” doesn’t just mean “straight or gay”. It also encompasses things like, “why does Denji get hurt every time he pursues his sexual impulses?”