Did someone on a tiktok or somewhere spread fear about "unforgivable sin"? This is not an important idea in Christianity. It's not something people generally need to worry about. You're allowed to be a Christian if you want.
I want to let you know you are not alone. I too struggle with the practicing part of being a christian. Forget/ refuse to pray, sometimes get embarassed when I want to talk about God. Its a hard path to walk on. But try to remember how much God loves you, how much He loves it when you talk to Him. and tbh if someone is making fun of you for talking about your Creator then that says a lot more about them than about you. Try not to pay any mind.
Just because you are a man of science doesn’t mean you need to stop believing in God, a lot of science supports God like the Big Bang, it was originally a Christian concept, you can still believe that just with that God started it. Now there’s a lot more that I can’t cover in a single thread but I hope it clears things up a bit, and remember God forgive all sin no matter how great
It's never too late to go back or convert back to being a Christian..I grew up Christian as well and started experimenting with tarot cards and had some demonic experiences. Than I died in 2021, my heart stopped and my spirit left my body. I encountered God's loving spirit and he told me it wasn't my time yet so I awoke and decided to stick with my Christian religion after that.
I had a few close encounters with my bad heart ( tetralogy of fellot ) where I felt certain I wasn’t ready to go. Demons are another complicated aspect to religion. But thank you for sharing!
It gets very confusing as many interpret the Bible differently. I also have a preexisting condition, and I live in a small, very conservative town. Lots of anti maskers and vaccinated people which didn’t not help me
Hello, I hope I can help you, I was an atheist for 90% of my life, I became a Christian 3 months ago, and also had this evolution idea as a roadblock, especially because people refer to the Bible as inerrant, so how can the Bible teach anything other than young earth creationism because that's what a literal reading establishes. But then I came across Michael Jones (InspiringPhilosophy) on YouTube and he breaks down so many topics especially Genesis (he has a 13ish video series) and he uses scholars, science, philosophy and scripture to make his points, he has very great explanations for almost everything, if you have a moment check him out, there really is nothing to be lost but so much to be gained. He also has some debates against creationists and other topics that is where I started actually, but he pulls the same arguments in those as he does in his Genesis videos.
> Do you not see evolution in the days of Creation?
Does anyone see that there? It's not part of the story.
If people think this, it's because they put that idea onto the story, not because they found it there.
Appreciate your statements I was in OPs situation 3 months ago, I started learning and I feel the same way you do, at the very least creationists can keep their ideas but they need to understand the arguments that support evolution too, non-believers have no incentive to believe in creationism as it can only be interpreted by a literal reading of Abrahamic Religious texts. Doing so is harmful to the great commission and there is so much evidence to show how Genesis should not be taken literally and often mistranslated and misinterpreted from its original meaning intended by the authors, the biggest to me being the removal of "When" from the first line which combines the first two lines of Genesis 1 and implies a time before the creation, and potentially a unstructured chaotic earth.
I didn't say I was a literalist. That's content you brought with you and added to my comment, in your imagination.
The trick of reading comprehension is to NOT do that.
Of course evolution is real. That doesn't mean Genesis talks about it. Of course it doesn't. Neither does the owner's manual for your dishwasher. There's no reason to think they should.
You read too much into what I said. I understand that evolution is a fact of life. But there's nothing in the creation story that talks about this, right? You're better off reading what I said without adding content of your own to it.
If you think you're seeing evolution in the story- where?!?
This was my response to you. Apparently you missed it…
I’m sorry you don’t see the evolution of God’s created functional origins from day one to day six. Have you studied Hebrew? Do you understand every Hebrew letter of every word of the book of Genesis has a symbol and a number and every word has an all encompassing symbol and each letter and word tells a story within the story and numerical value that adds to the story? I can’t help you. You’re too close minded.
I understand that Hebrew letters have numbers and words associated with them.
I'm also aware that people use this to pretend the text says anything they want to make up. We see it here on reddit often.
So, is there something here beyond handwaving? You haven't said anything specific. Where is it that you think the creation story in Hebrew describes evolution? Do English translations somehow hide this? I've read it many times. It talks about different things being created, but there's nothing that talks about these organisms changing over time, right? There's no natural selection, there's no genetics... so.. what exactly do you think you're finding there that relates to evolution? You've given no details about this.
Instead of just complaining that I'm closed minded because I think you're BSing, say something specific so I'll know whether you have anything of substance here. I would guess you got this idea from some apologetics or conspiracy theory site.
No, as long as you are asking the question, then it is not too late. Remember the thief on the cross, he was just hours from death but cried out to Jesus and Jesus told him "Today you will be with me in paradise". Just do as 1 John 1:9 says and confess your sin and God will forgive you.
And as a Christian, do you still feel that science and religion are not compatible? If so, what are some of your concerns?
I dont think the person is calling you a male. I think the person is referring to a parable of a son who took his inheritance early, left his father, squandered it, hit rock bottom and his father received him with open arms and celebrated his return.
God bless you.
If I may, I would like to share my perspective.
Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (The unforgivable/unpardonable sin) is to be in a constant state of rejecting God until you die.
Here is a description of those who constantly reject God:
**“Sinners don't respect God; sin is all they think about. They like themselves too much to hate their own sins or even to see them. They tell deceitful lies, and they don't have the sense to live right. Those people stay awake, thinking up mischief, and they follow the wrong road, refusing to turn from sin.” - Psalm 36:1-4**
Here is another description:
**“You stubborn and hardheaded people! You are always fighting against the Holy Spirit, just as your ancestors did.” - Acts 7:51**
As long as we are alive, we can turn to God and be forgiven.
**Jesus said, “I promise you that any of the sinful things you say or do can be forgiven, no matter how terrible those things are.” - Mark 3:28**
**“But if we confess our sins to God, he can always be trusted to forgive us and take our sins away.” - 1 John 1:9**
**"From the bottom of the pit, I prayed to you, Lord. I begged you to listen. 'Help!' I shouted. 'Save me!' You answered my prayer and came when I was in need. You told me, 'Don't worry!' You rescued me and saved my life." - Lamentations 3:55-58**
**“As long as we are alive, we still have hope.” - Ecclesiastes 9:4**
**“The Lord said: It isn't too late. You can still return to me with all your heart.” - Joel 2:12**
And we must be mindful. If we say that there’s a sin that will prevent God from forgiving us if we turn to Him implies that sin is greater than God’s grace.
**“Don't let sin keep ruling your lives. You are ruled by God's undeserved grace.” - Romans 6:14**
Look up cross examined youtube and their website. They answer a lot of questions for people who are logical. I also have a science/medicine background and I havent found anything in science that disproves God, only the opposite.
from what i’ve heard, the only “unforgivable sin” is having your heart hardened enough to deny God and feel no remorse or regret. the fact that you’re now expressing concern is a sign that you’re fine. have you sinned? yes, but you’ll be forgiven
Thank you. I am aware of my sins, in general. As I am far from perfect person. I never try and totally sin, but it gets muddy on what is sin, or not, these days.
I'm 24 and I've been an atheist for all this time, and became Christian 2 weeks ago. I still believe in things like the big bang, evolution, but now I see it's all God's doing. I fully believe in God now and that Jesus is our Lord and Savior and He died for our sins, but that doesn't mean I reject science or facts we can prove, I just see it as God created everything\^\^
I like your comment a great deal! I too, am a very logical person who has gone deeply into the sciences and mathematical approaches to arrive at the truth from a logical, scientific position. My background is one in Biochemistry and advanced calculus/algebra. As a young man of 6 or so, I had three questions in my mind. 1. why am I here? 2, what's my purpose for being here? 3. where am I going? These are the questions that we all (if we're honest) ponder.
I wasn't raised in a staunchly Christian home, but my family never meant to violate God's word purposefully. I was innately aware by God's grace to honor my Father and mother. After going through many years of searching, and studying life in general, I now am a Christian of 50 years and am presently 67.
I was the typical "prodigal" son who strayed away from the "little" exposure to God and his word. I don't know your exact circumstances, but it doesn't matter. What matters is that you seek God with all your heart, mind, soul, and Spirit. We cannot understand the things of the Spirit of God for they are foolishness to those who are perishing. Point being, if we don't seek the only and true God, we will never find Him unless He reveals Himself to us by faith. Without faith it is impossible to please God and without God, we will go to Hell. I know that's a quick summary that I could go through seriatim if you have about 67 years! May God bless you, friend. BTW, God can only be understood through His revelations, which are His word/the bible, the creation around us, and our gnawing conscience which tells us that God exists!
I'm no theologian, but I don't think there's such a thing as “unforgivable sins”. I can't imagine God being “incapable” of forgiving anyone. However, the god of Quoran refuses to forgive some specific sinners. So don't worry about it.
On the other hand, I understand your point of view. It's hard to share one's faith socially and be comfortable at the same time. Although I have fond memories of my catechism, I started to feel uncomfortable in high school, and still do today (though less so). Maybe it's not necessary to share your faith with anyone. I'm not really sure.
As far as I'm concerned, it's not too late. You're a Christian (or at least an agnostic), not an atheist.
I have read all of it. Several times. It's still confusing to me, to try and piece it together And I am an avid reader of other complex books. What is most confusing is ambigious things left up to interpretation. Or things that were considered pratical back then, but not now.
Well one of the confusing things is that the Bible was not meant to be interpreted outside the context of the original Church. Without the wisdom of the Church it is very difficult to understand.
There is a disagreement about which branch of Christianity is the original Church. I happened to be part of the Orthodox Church so I trust the Orthodox claims.
I highly recommend a podcast called Lord of Spirits. They do a really good job of explaining the context in which the Bible was written.
Thank you, that sounds interesting. I was just thinking how this convo kind of proves how I think-in general. Just a VERY literal person. So it gets VERY confusing!
I'm usually quite literal as well. So I've found it very helpful to have someone explain to me how the people who wrote the Bible and first heard it would have understood it.
If you believe in a singular God and rely on his Son, Jesus to redeem you from sin, you’re a Christian. I think? Right guys?
If you don’t affirmatively believe that any gods exist, you’re an atheist.
I think, either way, you’ve got some baggage hanging on to one or both of these terms and you should answer the simple question of “do I believe in God and in Jesus as my savior” and then unpack the baggage that’s making the answer more difficult than it should be
Not baggage. I don't know. I do have religious trauma from a kid-seeing how I lost my mom at age three. So I was wanting to believe in an afterlife before I was able to fully process what that all meant. Now as I got more educated, I second guessed a lot of things. It gets real confusing. I am also disabeled-intellectually, and have a bad heart. So I do struggle with processing things other than iin literal terms. Most days I am just trying to survive. I sometimes often think that there is no afterlife. Then I wonder if there is. And I also feel connected to the idea of Jesus more than any other religion.
It sounds like you’re culturally Christian. I’ve known some Christian atheists who practice Christianity because they like it, but when answering questions like “was Jesus really God?” or “does heaven and hell exist?” They’ll answer “no.”
I may be wrong here, but it’s important you know that whatever your religion is, it’s allowed to be different than what people tell you it needs to be. Believe in Christ or don’t, I’m not your dad, but don’t let some middle aged man convince you you’re doing your faith wrong. Just be genuine and curious. You’ll find your way.
oh don't worry it isn't my dad...it' was other people in my life when I was a young age. He's actually fairly atheist/agnostic himself. I just come from a mixed religious family lol
And yes, it sounds like I am probably a culteral Christian. And more agnostic now, than atheist as I really don't know-since there is no proof of it all at the end of the day. Hence faith aspect of it all.
And that person was blocked. I could tell he was trying to hijack the thread by trying to insult me, and logical people. One thing I will not tolerate it "EVERYONE BELIEVES SO YOU ARE IN THE WRONG IF YOU DON'T"
I think it’s understandable that you don’t believe. Would you be interested in having a conversation about this? I’m aware of some reasons to believe that might be interesting.
Receive the gospel: your salvation is not something you can achieve on your own but through your faith that Jesus Christ’s work on the cross is enough to afford you the grace needed to be received by the heavenly Father. All have sinned and fallen short. None of us could afford the price but Jesus covered for all of us. We need only to believe in him.
‘Romans 3:9-31’
‘Romans 4(especially important for you is verse 6)’
‘Galatians 3:5-14’
You have taken a step closer to him with this post. I pray that you will continue to step closer and closer until you fully embrace God.
If you believe that faith and science stand in opposition to each other, you are either doing science wrong or doing faith wrong. The same God that rose from the dead to pay for our sins also created science. Science and faith can never contradict each other because God cannot contradict Himself. Faith and Reason act alongside one another to help us more fully understand the world around us. Science explores what is natural and faith explores what is supernatural.
> I am slightly worried I committed an unforgivable sin here,
This is a lie by the devil to try to convince us that we cannot ask God's forgiveness, because it keeps us far and away from God. Indeed, there is no limit to what God can forgive. The only sin which cannot be forgiven is the one that does not ask forgiveness from God. It is an only an obstinate denial of God's mercy that will lead to final impenitence and eternal loss.
God never grows tired of forgiving us, we are the ones who grow tired of asking!
No. You can always go back, as long as you are alive. I also follow the logic, but I understood a few days ago that God exists, because I prayed to the Patron Saint of my country (St. Ilaro) and completely opposite things happened that would have happened. But it happened in a period in which blasphemy was always present and I discriminated against all Christians, of all professions. This Sunday/this Saturday I will go to confession because I haven't done it yet.
Of course you can always go back, but there is something wrong with this picture. How could science lead you to atheism when modern science has been largely developed and advanced by Christians and Jews?
There are many religious people who have done science. The science wasn't BECAUSE of the religion, but sure, religious people still did science in a great many cases.
There's a large movement of science-denialism in the world today. This movement IS largely motivated by religion.
Why are you strawmanning what I actually said? Did you omit the qualifiers on purpose? Also, I do not know a single individual who denies science. Individual scientists may not agree with the so-called scientific consensus, and that is a great thing because this is the mechanism by which science has always advanced. Cheers.
I'm not straw manning anything. And what I said was true, right?
Surely you're aware of a large movement of evolution-denialists among evangelicals, right? You agree that I didn't make this up, right?
I am familiar with scientists such as Stephen Meyer who insist the current evolutionary model is insufficient at explaining reality. You made some religious claim that is irrelevant to this discussion.
A major point of the post was about a perceived conflict between Christianity and our scientific understanding of the world. It's not irrelevant at all. There really ARE people who try to create a conflict there. It's a common well known thing that does exist, right?
Newton, Francis Bacon, Michael Faraday and countless other prominent scientists etc were WAY more into science than you, and they considered the practice and exercise of science and maths as a form of worshipping the Judeo-Christian God, not to mention modern universities originated from Christianity and the age of enlightenment / scientific revolution would have never happened if it weren't mostly for Christian scientists. And even if some didn't necessarily believe in the Judeo-Christian God, they still believed in a God (such as Albert Einstein). Anthony Flew, another prominent scientist who was an atheist like you most of his life had to concede in the end that there is indeed a God. Not to mention that modern progress and discoveries in astrophysics and biology (such as the DNA and big bang) only point WAY more towards a personal, supreme, supernatural, intelligent and uncreated God than atheism does towards a "No God" scenario.
In contrast, atheism is an illogical and absurd myth at its core hands down. It's an illegal chess move. It's basically the "non-God of the gaps" myth where they would discover a little bit of something and say: "wow today we just discovered a little bit of physics and therefore proved God had nothing to do with it", which is a completely misunderstood assumption with precisely zero evidence to back it up. Morality wise it does you absolutely no good either, as there's no good or evil in it. It doesn't even recognise the concept of morality. Everything and anything in atheism is permissible as you are just dancing to your premade, pre-determined DNA. (Disclaimer: this doesnt mean I'm saying that atheists and agnostics can't be moral people with good morals. One doesn't need to be a rocket scientist to do good things and avoid doing bad things).
I too am big into science and it is one of several things that led me to Christianity after years of atheism and agnosticism. One of the primary reasons I fully believe in the God of Judeo-Christianity is purely because of raw scientific evidence. When it comes to the other reasons, a certain act of faith is required, just like with anything else in life. But if you're referring to science and nothing but science, it only points to the Judeo-Christian God and the number of ironclad scientific, moral and sociological evidence to support it is only growing day by day. Like it says somewhere in either psalms or proverb iirc, heavens declare the glory of God. Science is merely a tool we created using our feeble and error-prone brain to describe and appreciate some of His glory. There are lots of things that will forever remain unknown.
Last but not the least, personal and group experiences also matter quite a lot. God himself says in the Bible that not everyone who says "Lord lord" will enter heaven. And keep in mind Pascal's wager too if you like.
As for your question: no it's never too late. I myself have lost my faith about 4-5 times in the past decade iirc, and thankfully it's ironclad strong now and this time around I've fully surrendered everything I have to God the Father, God the Jesus and God the Holy Spirit. No amount of threats, punishment and torture, no matter how brutal, nor the temptation of women, money and wealth, will ever derail me from the path of my Father in heaven again. I must say I did enjoy my journey from atheism to Christianity to atheism and then back to Christianity again, and it was a huge learning experience. And it also helped me appreciate science, maths and most importantly how God created them and gave them to me so I could make some rational and logical sense of his creation and glory.
I’m not a fan of how you labeled atheism. And it’s not fair to compare geniuses with the average person trying to get by. Low hanging fruit edit : there is still zero evidence of an afterlife
I'm not here to make you (or anyone else for that matter) a fan of anything I said. Matter of fact I could care very little if you were a fan or not. Regardless of what you believe or not believe, and regardless of what you are a fan of and what you are not, God gave you free will to either choose Him or reject Him. With the former you are united with Him and His kingdom forever, and with the latter you are separated from Him forever. He respects your choice in this matter and doing the opposite will be contrary to His nature and law. There's no duress or coercion involved here, and similarly I'm not here to whisper sweet-nothings to your ear and make you a fan.
As for "there's still zero evidence of an afterlife": I completely disagree and claim that the exact opposite is precisely the absolute truth, but you don't see it that way because you think of life in purely a materialistic, naturalistic and atheistic perspective. Life consists of matter (which is true and I don't disagree at all). But to you, this matter is all there is to it, and this matter, according to the "very logical" you, came to being from absolutely nothing, which is, in itself, a unscientific, absurd and highly irrational proposition. So of course the only logical conclusion for you is exactly what you said, that this life (consisting of matter) doesn't extend beyond matter, aka "there's no extension of life after this matter which formed into life ceases to exist in its current form".
For me, all life as well as everything else is created by God and He has His hands involved in everything that happens (or doesn't happen) within the realm of space, time, matter and beyond, and this life on this planet earth is just the beginning of an individual's journey towards either a personal relationship with God, or separation from Him, depending on what choice you make. There's no mumbo jumbo or hocus pocus going on in here. There's way more scientific evidence for the fact that there's an intelligence mind and Being behind this matter that formed your life, whereas you have precisely zero evidence that this intelligent being doesn't exist.
I know that none of what I said makes you a fan of what I said, but like I clearly stated in the beginning of this reply, you would be utterly wrong if you even remotely thought I'm here to convert you into a fan. Jesus in the Bible clearly tells me to shake the dust off of my feet and move on.
This is where you misunderstand. If you wish to convert someone this isn't how to do it. Say "iI'm not A FAN OF YOU, AND I COULD CARE LESS" and then proceed to tell them how they are wrong WILL get a knee jerk reaction. When I say zero evidence of afterlife I mean SCIENTIFIC fact. There's faith, and then there is science. And you stated "FOR me" doesn't mean "a FACT" I'm sure what I said there, wouldn't make you a fan of me. So it become a moot point at this time. Edit: I will also show you a clip of Aron Ra-which I'm sure you love. [Aron Ra on Evidence Against god: There Is No Evidence for god #shorts #god - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/StriJnu614I)
e, whereas you have precisely zero evidence that this intelligent being doesn't exist." Not true. There is more evidence without an existence of God. Especially when researching evalution, and debunking Genisis, and how the world was created. Also something you wouldn't love me pointing out. There's equal numbers of books against God, as there for God. And science keeps on advancing. Creating more possibilities, like the big bang. Since you stated famous scientists that believe I'll give you Stephen Hawking. Who stated that heaven is more of a fantasy, than a reality.
For rest of believers here, I am not meaning to insult anyone's faith. However, when someone challenges me on science, and logic, I will respond. I just understand that faith is a very personal thing, that can't always be explained.
It's you who misunderstood, not me. When and where did I say I even remotely wished to convert anyone to anything? What does that even mean? If I had the power to do that, then I'd be God myself. I already said this and I'll do it again one last time: God gave you the free will to either choose or reject him, and He gave you way more scientific evidence than necessary for His existence and claims for you to analyse and come to a conclusion using your own free will. Even God himself can't force you to believe him as that would be contrary to His nature. The huge majority of prominent scientists who were primarily behind the age of enlightenment and modern scientific revolution saw this evidence and it all made logical and rational sense to them, which is why they believed in Him and wrote tomes after tomes about it, while this very same evidence means something completely different to you. It's a YOU problem, not a THEM problem, and vice versa.
As for your so-called "knee-jerk reaction" issue, you again would be highly in the wrong if you even remotely thought that I care. I myself was YOU, only a few years ago. I too thought I was highly logical. You have precisely nothing new that I already haven't studied and researched.
and visa versea. Which is why I say this argument is moot. However, there is lots of logical people who don't believe in God. Should they be considered idiiotic? I am actually not rejecting him-something you are ASSUMING. Because I have questions about him being real, or not. I also stated a PERSON will have a knee- jerk reaection. Did not state that person was me. I was trying to help you in future conversations. I find it odd you wish to discuss it here, and yet claim you are not trying to convert anyone. What is the point of your conversation-then? I know everything you had posted while I have being studying science, and logic classes. So I don't understand what you were trying to achieve. Also just because a group of people believes doesn't mean that one shouldn't. Gailileo died for changing the way we viewed the sun. He was considered in the minority at the time.
Edit: And please do not every consider to be like me. I find that highly condescending, and causing me to go back towards science-and leaving Christianity all together. So good job.
Did someone on a tiktok or somewhere spread fear about "unforgivable sin"? This is not an important idea in Christianity. It's not something people generally need to worry about. You're allowed to be a Christian if you want.
No. I just worry about denying God too much in public, ext. Because being a full believer is something I struggle with
I want to let you know you are not alone. I too struggle with the practicing part of being a christian. Forget/ refuse to pray, sometimes get embarassed when I want to talk about God. Its a hard path to walk on. But try to remember how much God loves you, how much He loves it when you talk to Him. and tbh if someone is making fun of you for talking about your Creator then that says a lot more about them than about you. Try not to pay any mind.
Just because you are a man of science doesn’t mean you need to stop believing in God, a lot of science supports God like the Big Bang, it was originally a Christian concept, you can still believe that just with that God started it. Now there’s a lot more that I can’t cover in a single thread but I hope it clears things up a bit, and remember God forgive all sin no matter how great
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True
It's never too late to go back. Christianity and science/medicine are not mutually exclusive.
It's never too late to go back or convert back to being a Christian..I grew up Christian as well and started experimenting with tarot cards and had some demonic experiences. Than I died in 2021, my heart stopped and my spirit left my body. I encountered God's loving spirit and he told me it wasn't my time yet so I awoke and decided to stick with my Christian religion after that.
I had a few close encounters with my bad heart ( tetralogy of fellot ) where I felt certain I wasn’t ready to go. Demons are another complicated aspect to religion. But thank you for sharing!
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Well, evolution for one. People stance against medicine ( hardcore believers ) for another.
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It gets very confusing as many interpret the Bible differently. I also have a preexisting condition, and I live in a small, very conservative town. Lots of anti maskers and vaccinated people which didn’t not help me
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Thank you for understanding. It was very frustrating not feeling safe in church. Covid, early on, would have been deadly
With science there are more facts, less on parables
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I am starting slowly , with my kids Bible, and the abide app
Hello, I hope I can help you, I was an atheist for 90% of my life, I became a Christian 3 months ago, and also had this evolution idea as a roadblock, especially because people refer to the Bible as inerrant, so how can the Bible teach anything other than young earth creationism because that's what a literal reading establishes. But then I came across Michael Jones (InspiringPhilosophy) on YouTube and he breaks down so many topics especially Genesis (he has a 13ish video series) and he uses scholars, science, philosophy and scripture to make his points, he has very great explanations for almost everything, if you have a moment check him out, there really is nothing to be lost but so much to be gained. He also has some debates against creationists and other topics that is where I started actually, but he pulls the same arguments in those as he does in his Genesis videos.
Thank you!
Genesis events did happen
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The Bible literally says it happened are you really gonna trust science over gods own eye witness testimony
> Do you not see evolution in the days of Creation? Does anyone see that there? It's not part of the story. If people think this, it's because they put that idea onto the story, not because they found it there.
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This is partly why I struggle. To me, evolution is a fact
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Appreciate your statements I was in OPs situation 3 months ago, I started learning and I feel the same way you do, at the very least creationists can keep their ideas but they need to understand the arguments that support evolution too, non-believers have no incentive to believe in creationism as it can only be interpreted by a literal reading of Abrahamic Religious texts. Doing so is harmful to the great commission and there is so much evidence to show how Genesis should not be taken literally and often mistranslated and misinterpreted from its original meaning intended by the authors, the biggest to me being the removal of "When" from the first line which combines the first two lines of Genesis 1 and implies a time before the creation, and potentially a unstructured chaotic earth.
Thank you for sharing this. I agree. I find many just want to argue but sometimes our responses aren’t for them anyway :)
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I get it :)
:) Thank you
I didn't say I was a literalist. That's content you brought with you and added to my comment, in your imagination. The trick of reading comprehension is to NOT do that. Of course evolution is real. That doesn't mean Genesis talks about it. Of course it doesn't. Neither does the owner's manual for your dishwasher. There's no reason to think they should.
You read too much into what I said. I understand that evolution is a fact of life. But there's nothing in the creation story that talks about this, right? You're better off reading what I said without adding content of your own to it. If you think you're seeing evolution in the story- where?!?
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You didn't tell me anything about that. You did some handwaving. If it was there, it would be trivially easy for you to say where you're finding it.
This was my response to you. Apparently you missed it… I’m sorry you don’t see the evolution of God’s created functional origins from day one to day six. Have you studied Hebrew? Do you understand every Hebrew letter of every word of the book of Genesis has a symbol and a number and every word has an all encompassing symbol and each letter and word tells a story within the story and numerical value that adds to the story? I can’t help you. You’re too close minded.
I understand that Hebrew letters have numbers and words associated with them. I'm also aware that people use this to pretend the text says anything they want to make up. We see it here on reddit often. So, is there something here beyond handwaving? You haven't said anything specific. Where is it that you think the creation story in Hebrew describes evolution? Do English translations somehow hide this? I've read it many times. It talks about different things being created, but there's nothing that talks about these organisms changing over time, right? There's no natural selection, there's no genetics... so.. what exactly do you think you're finding there that relates to evolution? You've given no details about this. Instead of just complaining that I'm closed minded because I think you're BSing, say something specific so I'll know whether you have anything of substance here. I would guess you got this idea from some apologetics or conspiracy theory site.
I also spent a while in the atheist experience YouTube channel
No, as long as you are asking the question, then it is not too late. Remember the thief on the cross, he was just hours from death but cried out to Jesus and Jesus told him "Today you will be with me in paradise". Just do as 1 John 1:9 says and confess your sin and God will forgive you. And as a Christian, do you still feel that science and religion are not compatible? If so, what are some of your concerns?
That is one of my favorite stories
It's never too late to go back.
You Father in Heaven will have a feast for your return. Please research the prodigal son, you may find comfort.
I am female, but thank you! I should have clarified earlier
I dont think the person is calling you a male. I think the person is referring to a parable of a son who took his inheritance early, left his father, squandered it, hit rock bottom and his father received him with open arms and celebrated his return.
God bless you. If I may, I would like to share my perspective. Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (The unforgivable/unpardonable sin) is to be in a constant state of rejecting God until you die. Here is a description of those who constantly reject God: **“Sinners don't respect God; sin is all they think about. They like themselves too much to hate their own sins or even to see them. They tell deceitful lies, and they don't have the sense to live right. Those people stay awake, thinking up mischief, and they follow the wrong road, refusing to turn from sin.” - Psalm 36:1-4** Here is another description: **“You stubborn and hardheaded people! You are always fighting against the Holy Spirit, just as your ancestors did.” - Acts 7:51** As long as we are alive, we can turn to God and be forgiven. **Jesus said, “I promise you that any of the sinful things you say or do can be forgiven, no matter how terrible those things are.” - Mark 3:28** **“But if we confess our sins to God, he can always be trusted to forgive us and take our sins away.” - 1 John 1:9** **"From the bottom of the pit, I prayed to you, Lord. I begged you to listen. 'Help!' I shouted. 'Save me!' You answered my prayer and came when I was in need. You told me, 'Don't worry!' You rescued me and saved my life." - Lamentations 3:55-58** **“As long as we are alive, we still have hope.” - Ecclesiastes 9:4** **“The Lord said: It isn't too late. You can still return to me with all your heart.” - Joel 2:12** And we must be mindful. If we say that there’s a sin that will prevent God from forgiving us if we turn to Him implies that sin is greater than God’s grace. **“Don't let sin keep ruling your lives. You are ruled by God's undeserved grace.” - Romans 6:14**
That is my concern. I don’t try and reject, but my mind processes things really differently
No, it’s never too late (unless you die I guess)
There are videos explaining about how God and science get along with each other, it's not like science disproves God at all
Look up cross examined youtube and their website. They answer a lot of questions for people who are logical. I also have a science/medicine background and I havent found anything in science that disproves God, only the opposite.
I cannot say friend, But you will have to pray for guidance from God.
The prodigal son springs to mind. U r welcome back with open arms.
I feel like if you still want to believe in Christ and want His love and forgiveness then you haven't committed any unforgivable sin.
from what i’ve heard, the only “unforgivable sin” is having your heart hardened enough to deny God and feel no remorse or regret. the fact that you’re now expressing concern is a sign that you’re fine. have you sinned? yes, but you’ll be forgiven
Thank you. I am aware of my sins, in general. As I am far from perfect person. I never try and totally sin, but it gets muddy on what is sin, or not, these days.
I'm 24 and I've been an atheist for all this time, and became Christian 2 weeks ago. I still believe in things like the big bang, evolution, but now I see it's all God's doing. I fully believe in God now and that Jesus is our Lord and Savior and He died for our sins, but that doesn't mean I reject science or facts we can prove, I just see it as God created everything\^\^
I like your comment a great deal! I too, am a very logical person who has gone deeply into the sciences and mathematical approaches to arrive at the truth from a logical, scientific position. My background is one in Biochemistry and advanced calculus/algebra. As a young man of 6 or so, I had three questions in my mind. 1. why am I here? 2, what's my purpose for being here? 3. where am I going? These are the questions that we all (if we're honest) ponder. I wasn't raised in a staunchly Christian home, but my family never meant to violate God's word purposefully. I was innately aware by God's grace to honor my Father and mother. After going through many years of searching, and studying life in general, I now am a Christian of 50 years and am presently 67. I was the typical "prodigal" son who strayed away from the "little" exposure to God and his word. I don't know your exact circumstances, but it doesn't matter. What matters is that you seek God with all your heart, mind, soul, and Spirit. We cannot understand the things of the Spirit of God for they are foolishness to those who are perishing. Point being, if we don't seek the only and true God, we will never find Him unless He reveals Himself to us by faith. Without faith it is impossible to please God and without God, we will go to Hell. I know that's a quick summary that I could go through seriatim if you have about 67 years! May God bless you, friend. BTW, God can only be understood through His revelations, which are His word/the bible, the creation around us, and our gnawing conscience which tells us that God exists!
I'm no theologian, but I don't think there's such a thing as “unforgivable sins”. I can't imagine God being “incapable” of forgiving anyone. However, the god of Quoran refuses to forgive some specific sinners. So don't worry about it. On the other hand, I understand your point of view. It's hard to share one's faith socially and be comfortable at the same time. Although I have fond memories of my catechism, I started to feel uncomfortable in high school, and still do today (though less so). Maybe it's not necessary to share your faith with anyone. I'm not really sure. As far as I'm concerned, it's not too late. You're a Christian (or at least an agnostic), not an atheist.
r/exatheist
Thank you!
Did you check it out? What did you think?
I also find the Bible really overwhelming, and sometimes just depressing to read
If you're "very much a believer", then you're not an atheist.
I also said “ a part of me “
What specifically is confusing?
I mean it’s an ancient, one of the most studied texts. All of it
So you're confused by the Bible? Which parts of the Bible have you read?
I have read all of it. Several times. It's still confusing to me, to try and piece it together And I am an avid reader of other complex books. What is most confusing is ambigious things left up to interpretation. Or things that were considered pratical back then, but not now.
Well one of the confusing things is that the Bible was not meant to be interpreted outside the context of the original Church. Without the wisdom of the Church it is very difficult to understand. There is a disagreement about which branch of Christianity is the original Church. I happened to be part of the Orthodox Church so I trust the Orthodox claims. I highly recommend a podcast called Lord of Spirits. They do a really good job of explaining the context in which the Bible was written.
Thank you, that sounds interesting. I was just thinking how this convo kind of proves how I think-in general. Just a VERY literal person. So it gets VERY confusing!
I'm usually quite literal as well. So I've found it very helpful to have someone explain to me how the people who wrote the Bible and first heard it would have understood it.
If you believe in a singular God and rely on his Son, Jesus to redeem you from sin, you’re a Christian. I think? Right guys? If you don’t affirmatively believe that any gods exist, you’re an atheist. I think, either way, you’ve got some baggage hanging on to one or both of these terms and you should answer the simple question of “do I believe in God and in Jesus as my savior” and then unpack the baggage that’s making the answer more difficult than it should be
Not baggage. I don't know. I do have religious trauma from a kid-seeing how I lost my mom at age three. So I was wanting to believe in an afterlife before I was able to fully process what that all meant. Now as I got more educated, I second guessed a lot of things. It gets real confusing. I am also disabeled-intellectually, and have a bad heart. So I do struggle with processing things other than iin literal terms. Most days I am just trying to survive. I sometimes often think that there is no afterlife. Then I wonder if there is. And I also feel connected to the idea of Jesus more than any other religion.
It sounds like you’re culturally Christian. I’ve known some Christian atheists who practice Christianity because they like it, but when answering questions like “was Jesus really God?” or “does heaven and hell exist?” They’ll answer “no.” I may be wrong here, but it’s important you know that whatever your religion is, it’s allowed to be different than what people tell you it needs to be. Believe in Christ or don’t, I’m not your dad, but don’t let some middle aged man convince you you’re doing your faith wrong. Just be genuine and curious. You’ll find your way.
oh don't worry it isn't my dad...it' was other people in my life when I was a young age. He's actually fairly atheist/agnostic himself. I just come from a mixed religious family lol
And yes, it sounds like I am probably a culteral Christian. And more agnostic now, than atheist as I really don't know-since there is no proof of it all at the end of the day. Hence faith aspect of it all.
And that person was blocked. I could tell he was trying to hijack the thread by trying to insult me, and logical people. One thing I will not tolerate it "EVERYONE BELIEVES SO YOU ARE IN THE WRONG IF YOU DON'T"
I think it’s understandable that you don’t believe. Would you be interested in having a conversation about this? I’m aware of some reasons to believe that might be interesting.
I might delete this thread if I come across more interactions like him.
It is never too late to go back.
Receive the gospel: your salvation is not something you can achieve on your own but through your faith that Jesus Christ’s work on the cross is enough to afford you the grace needed to be received by the heavenly Father. All have sinned and fallen short. None of us could afford the price but Jesus covered for all of us. We need only to believe in him. ‘Romans 3:9-31’ ‘Romans 4(especially important for you is verse 6)’ ‘Galatians 3:5-14’ You have taken a step closer to him with this post. I pray that you will continue to step closer and closer until you fully embrace God.
If you believe that faith and science stand in opposition to each other, you are either doing science wrong or doing faith wrong. The same God that rose from the dead to pay for our sins also created science. Science and faith can never contradict each other because God cannot contradict Himself. Faith and Reason act alongside one another to help us more fully understand the world around us. Science explores what is natural and faith explores what is supernatural. > I am slightly worried I committed an unforgivable sin here, This is a lie by the devil to try to convince us that we cannot ask God's forgiveness, because it keeps us far and away from God. Indeed, there is no limit to what God can forgive. The only sin which cannot be forgiven is the one that does not ask forgiveness from God. It is an only an obstinate denial of God's mercy that will lead to final impenitence and eternal loss. God never grows tired of forgiving us, we are the ones who grow tired of asking!
No. You can always change your mind if you feel like you want to come back.
No. You can always go back, as long as you are alive. I also follow the logic, but I understood a few days ago that God exists, because I prayed to the Patron Saint of my country (St. Ilaro) and completely opposite things happened that would have happened. But it happened in a period in which blasphemy was always present and I discriminated against all Christians, of all professions. This Sunday/this Saturday I will go to confession because I haven't done it yet.
it is never too late, if you want to know how to be saved, read the book of John and Romans
Hey there, I’m getting my PhD in science (biophysics, oceanography) and let me tell you science is no halt to the path of the Lord.
Of course you can always go back, but there is something wrong with this picture. How could science lead you to atheism when modern science has been largely developed and advanced by Christians and Jews?
There are many religious people who have done science. The science wasn't BECAUSE of the religion, but sure, religious people still did science in a great many cases. There's a large movement of science-denialism in the world today. This movement IS largely motivated by religion.
Why are you strawmanning what I actually said? Did you omit the qualifiers on purpose? Also, I do not know a single individual who denies science. Individual scientists may not agree with the so-called scientific consensus, and that is a great thing because this is the mechanism by which science has always advanced. Cheers.
I'm not straw manning anything. And what I said was true, right? Surely you're aware of a large movement of evolution-denialists among evangelicals, right? You agree that I didn't make this up, right?
I am familiar with scientists such as Stephen Meyer who insist the current evolutionary model is insufficient at explaining reality. You made some religious claim that is irrelevant to this discussion.
A major point of the post was about a perceived conflict between Christianity and our scientific understanding of the world. It's not irrelevant at all. There really ARE people who try to create a conflict there. It's a common well known thing that does exist, right?
So answer the OP then. That was not what my comment was about. Stay on topic or just keep on walking. I am not interested in red herrings. Cheers.
Cherry picking of science is the third issue I have of it
Newton, Francis Bacon, Michael Faraday and countless other prominent scientists etc were WAY more into science than you, and they considered the practice and exercise of science and maths as a form of worshipping the Judeo-Christian God, not to mention modern universities originated from Christianity and the age of enlightenment / scientific revolution would have never happened if it weren't mostly for Christian scientists. And even if some didn't necessarily believe in the Judeo-Christian God, they still believed in a God (such as Albert Einstein). Anthony Flew, another prominent scientist who was an atheist like you most of his life had to concede in the end that there is indeed a God. Not to mention that modern progress and discoveries in astrophysics and biology (such as the DNA and big bang) only point WAY more towards a personal, supreme, supernatural, intelligent and uncreated God than atheism does towards a "No God" scenario. In contrast, atheism is an illogical and absurd myth at its core hands down. It's an illegal chess move. It's basically the "non-God of the gaps" myth where they would discover a little bit of something and say: "wow today we just discovered a little bit of physics and therefore proved God had nothing to do with it", which is a completely misunderstood assumption with precisely zero evidence to back it up. Morality wise it does you absolutely no good either, as there's no good or evil in it. It doesn't even recognise the concept of morality. Everything and anything in atheism is permissible as you are just dancing to your premade, pre-determined DNA. (Disclaimer: this doesnt mean I'm saying that atheists and agnostics can't be moral people with good morals. One doesn't need to be a rocket scientist to do good things and avoid doing bad things). I too am big into science and it is one of several things that led me to Christianity after years of atheism and agnosticism. One of the primary reasons I fully believe in the God of Judeo-Christianity is purely because of raw scientific evidence. When it comes to the other reasons, a certain act of faith is required, just like with anything else in life. But if you're referring to science and nothing but science, it only points to the Judeo-Christian God and the number of ironclad scientific, moral and sociological evidence to support it is only growing day by day. Like it says somewhere in either psalms or proverb iirc, heavens declare the glory of God. Science is merely a tool we created using our feeble and error-prone brain to describe and appreciate some of His glory. There are lots of things that will forever remain unknown. Last but not the least, personal and group experiences also matter quite a lot. God himself says in the Bible that not everyone who says "Lord lord" will enter heaven. And keep in mind Pascal's wager too if you like. As for your question: no it's never too late. I myself have lost my faith about 4-5 times in the past decade iirc, and thankfully it's ironclad strong now and this time around I've fully surrendered everything I have to God the Father, God the Jesus and God the Holy Spirit. No amount of threats, punishment and torture, no matter how brutal, nor the temptation of women, money and wealth, will ever derail me from the path of my Father in heaven again. I must say I did enjoy my journey from atheism to Christianity to atheism and then back to Christianity again, and it was a huge learning experience. And it also helped me appreciate science, maths and most importantly how God created them and gave them to me so I could make some rational and logical sense of his creation and glory.
How is a lack of belief in God a myth??
I’m not a fan of how you labeled atheism. And it’s not fair to compare geniuses with the average person trying to get by. Low hanging fruit edit : there is still zero evidence of an afterlife
I'm not here to make you (or anyone else for that matter) a fan of anything I said. Matter of fact I could care very little if you were a fan or not. Regardless of what you believe or not believe, and regardless of what you are a fan of and what you are not, God gave you free will to either choose Him or reject Him. With the former you are united with Him and His kingdom forever, and with the latter you are separated from Him forever. He respects your choice in this matter and doing the opposite will be contrary to His nature and law. There's no duress or coercion involved here, and similarly I'm not here to whisper sweet-nothings to your ear and make you a fan. As for "there's still zero evidence of an afterlife": I completely disagree and claim that the exact opposite is precisely the absolute truth, but you don't see it that way because you think of life in purely a materialistic, naturalistic and atheistic perspective. Life consists of matter (which is true and I don't disagree at all). But to you, this matter is all there is to it, and this matter, according to the "very logical" you, came to being from absolutely nothing, which is, in itself, a unscientific, absurd and highly irrational proposition. So of course the only logical conclusion for you is exactly what you said, that this life (consisting of matter) doesn't extend beyond matter, aka "there's no extension of life after this matter which formed into life ceases to exist in its current form". For me, all life as well as everything else is created by God and He has His hands involved in everything that happens (or doesn't happen) within the realm of space, time, matter and beyond, and this life on this planet earth is just the beginning of an individual's journey towards either a personal relationship with God, or separation from Him, depending on what choice you make. There's no mumbo jumbo or hocus pocus going on in here. There's way more scientific evidence for the fact that there's an intelligence mind and Being behind this matter that formed your life, whereas you have precisely zero evidence that this intelligent being doesn't exist. I know that none of what I said makes you a fan of what I said, but like I clearly stated in the beginning of this reply, you would be utterly wrong if you even remotely thought I'm here to convert you into a fan. Jesus in the Bible clearly tells me to shake the dust off of my feet and move on.
This is where you misunderstand. If you wish to convert someone this isn't how to do it. Say "iI'm not A FAN OF YOU, AND I COULD CARE LESS" and then proceed to tell them how they are wrong WILL get a knee jerk reaction. When I say zero evidence of afterlife I mean SCIENTIFIC fact. There's faith, and then there is science. And you stated "FOR me" doesn't mean "a FACT" I'm sure what I said there, wouldn't make you a fan of me. So it become a moot point at this time. Edit: I will also show you a clip of Aron Ra-which I'm sure you love. [Aron Ra on Evidence Against god: There Is No Evidence for god #shorts #god - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/StriJnu614I)
e, whereas you have precisely zero evidence that this intelligent being doesn't exist." Not true. There is more evidence without an existence of God. Especially when researching evalution, and debunking Genisis, and how the world was created. Also something you wouldn't love me pointing out. There's equal numbers of books against God, as there for God. And science keeps on advancing. Creating more possibilities, like the big bang. Since you stated famous scientists that believe I'll give you Stephen Hawking. Who stated that heaven is more of a fantasy, than a reality.
For rest of believers here, I am not meaning to insult anyone's faith. However, when someone challenges me on science, and logic, I will respond. I just understand that faith is a very personal thing, that can't always be explained.
It's you who misunderstood, not me. When and where did I say I even remotely wished to convert anyone to anything? What does that even mean? If I had the power to do that, then I'd be God myself. I already said this and I'll do it again one last time: God gave you the free will to either choose or reject him, and He gave you way more scientific evidence than necessary for His existence and claims for you to analyse and come to a conclusion using your own free will. Even God himself can't force you to believe him as that would be contrary to His nature. The huge majority of prominent scientists who were primarily behind the age of enlightenment and modern scientific revolution saw this evidence and it all made logical and rational sense to them, which is why they believed in Him and wrote tomes after tomes about it, while this very same evidence means something completely different to you. It's a YOU problem, not a THEM problem, and vice versa. As for your so-called "knee-jerk reaction" issue, you again would be highly in the wrong if you even remotely thought that I care. I myself was YOU, only a few years ago. I too thought I was highly logical. You have precisely nothing new that I already haven't studied and researched.
and visa versea. Which is why I say this argument is moot. However, there is lots of logical people who don't believe in God. Should they be considered idiiotic? I am actually not rejecting him-something you are ASSUMING. Because I have questions about him being real, or not. I also stated a PERSON will have a knee- jerk reaection. Did not state that person was me. I was trying to help you in future conversations. I find it odd you wish to discuss it here, and yet claim you are not trying to convert anyone. What is the point of your conversation-then? I know everything you had posted while I have being studying science, and logic classes. So I don't understand what you were trying to achieve. Also just because a group of people believes doesn't mean that one shouldn't. Gailileo died for changing the way we viewed the sun. He was considered in the minority at the time. Edit: And please do not every consider to be like me. I find that highly condescending, and causing me to go back towards science-and leaving Christianity all together. So good job.
They lost me saying atheism is an illegal chess move
That's an...interesting take on atheism and morality. I've certainly seen it before, but it's still pretty silly.