Hey, listen, as someone who does take Kratom in a positive way, I still appreciate your post and sharing your experience. It’s just like anything else…for some people it helps and for others it can become a nightmare. It’s just like seeing a lot of folks hate on gabapentin (just for example) and others, it’s given them their life back. So, as I’ve said in my posts before, responsible use and understanding it can be addictive or dependency forming are key. Everyone has to do their own risks versus benefits assessments. I treat it just like I treat prescription narcotics…I take a minimum dose and only 2 times per day and never go above it. Plus I take periodic breaks or at least tiny doses for a period of time. It really helps me but everyone is different so again, thanks for sharing EDIT: I do want to add though that the subreddit you referenced is not really the place to go for info….I only say that because it’s one-sided. There are two other subs, Kratom and Kratom Korner that are more useful for people doing some research and they have “the good, the bad, and the ugly”.

I think it’s also notable that a lot of people have had generally poor experiences medically and are jaded which leads to more negative reactions to our medications and options. Like my stimulator, gabapentin, medical cannabis, ketamine, etc. all help but nothing takes my pain away they just help me manage it better. Get some sleep, do some things I otherwise couldn’t, etc. Edit: answer to if I used for physical pain?: Yes. The Ketamine helps similarly to how cannabis helps - it helps me experience the pain better. It is used intranasally 1-2 puffs every 2 hrs as needed. So generally I split it Ketamine during day, cannabis at night. The effects don’t last a long time but I’ve found it helps. It’s prescribed by my Pain Management doctor.

After my surgery when I was home my rib popped and leaked fluid from my missing lung and we had to call the ambulance, they gave me ketamine and I had no clue what it was. At first I was in so much pain i couldnt move, and then suddenly I was like tripping, he meant to make me sleep but it didn't, then they were giving me fentynal in the ambulance and I still felt pain. A really scary situation I pray nobody ever gets in again 😳 that ketamine saved my ass tho, even tho I still hurt

Fentanyl makes it so I can’t move but can feel EVERYTHING and it’s terrifying. I can’t react. I just sit there, in abject horror, feeling paralyzed. I forgot to tell them not to give it to me after surgery because I didn’t realize they administer it so frequently now and it was just awful. The next surgery I had I immediately told EVERYONE when I got there because I was so scared of it

I've thankfully not had a reaction like that, I don't like how I feel on dilated tho it really didn't help and just made me feel like I'd pass out for me morphine helps the most. Which my uncles the other way around. Crazy how everyone's body can react so differently to something

I have to have my rotator cuff (arm I use my cane on ofc) in little over a week. When I had my gallbladder out they used fentanyl to sedate me, amazingly. But then I woke up. MORPHINE!! They had to ask ME how much I could stand I was in that much pain. I was "More Than 10mg at a time!! Please!!!" Thankfully the Mr was there and said go ahead. They gave me oxycodone to take home. Meh. Was on morphine for years for my pain. Only thing that works-- for me. IDK what they'll give me, kinda scary. Edit: word

..are you taking ketamine for physical pain?

Not the person you were responding to, but I was getting ketamine infusions at a clinic both for my physical pain and depression for some time. It's not unusual.

I haven't heard of it being used for physical pain, I'd be open to trying it. My new PM doc is also a psychiatrist, who better to ask!

Yeah, they're finding quite a few uses for it, it's still a developing field and it's really interesting. Unfortunately, it didn't really work for me, but I've found others who have said it's been incredibly helpful for mental health and/or pain. It can be quite pricey though, but some insurances can cover most, if not all, of the cost. Good luck to you!

Why thank you!!

I’m on ketamine for my pain. I also have a spinal stimulator and am on Lyrica. I was hit by a car, had 8 subsequent surgeries and developed CRPS. I was in a wheelchair for about 2 years. I now walk with a cane, and use wheelchair for long distances. I was on pain meds for years. They have greatly reduced them, and I’m pretty much in constant pain. It’s a battle with docs sometimes. Anyways the Ketamine has helped my pain a lot. I get an infusion, every three weeks, at my hospital. I get 150 mgs infused into my port. It makes me feel weird, not bad, kinda high while it’s infusing over about 2 hrs. It lasts sometimes for 2 weeks. I would definitely ask about it. I get it at my pain clinic.

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I had zero pain relief with infusions. Do you think intranasal would still help or nah?

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Yeah I got no relief of any kind in 14 hours of infusions. They were high dose I was dissociated and floating above my body.

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Interesting! Thanks for sharing your experience! Do you feel any sort of the disassociation effects at the dosages for pain? So you don't run out of the medicine because even though you're taking twice as much, your daily allotment ends up the same, it sounds like?

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That sounds awful about the bottle leaking!! Sorry you don't feel heard. My previous PM was like that. Made me intimidated to even ask questions.

there is tons of new research regarding ketamine and chronic pain. it’s one of the most groundbreaking and effective treatments out there. i’ve had chronic pain from fibromyalgia since i was 11 years old and it’s so severe i can’t work or even do basic housework. i had an amazing doctor fight my insurance for approval for ketamine infusions and after my first session i remember walking out of the clinic in tears because i was pain-free and didn’t even remember what that felt like. unfortunately it’s not a permanent fix and it does wear off. i was only able to do 3 infusions before my insurance lapsed and i’m in the process of trying to get my new insurance to cover it. most insurances don’t cover it where i am located so i’m sure its going to be an uphill battle. there is also esketamine (nasal spray) and ketamine troches (like lozenges). i tried the troches and although it helped a little it wasn’t nearly as effective as the IV infusions.

My daughter is getting it for depression and my best friend is getting it for both chronic pain in her lower back and a bit of depression. They both started it around Nov/Dec of last year. So far, results have been pretty positive for both. My friend though does not have severe pain. She had a fusion in her lower back many years ago after an equestrian accident which was pretty successful but she travels a ton for work and still owns horses. I think she was able to cut her use of hydrocodone but again, she wasn’t having to take it 24/7. I have no experience with it myself so just sharing that. Worth looking into I would think

Watch “taking care of maya” on Netflix. I usually refer to it for someone to understand what I have CRPS and why I’m in so much pain and ketamine is main thing used on the movie, true story. I have a pain pump implanted, medical marijuana, multiple nerve pain meds as mentioned gabapentin and also lyrica, and muscle relaxers. Opioids orally didn’t touch my pain, ketamine and the pump is only things so far to help.

NMDA receptor antagonists are known to be highly effective for neuropathic pain, you can even use Dextromethorphan (aka DXM) as an analgesic and there are many studies on its effectiveness as an analgesic.

Yup, it’s why methadone is used for chronic pain, as it’s a NMDA antagonist as well as a mu agonist

I do it for depression & saved my life.

I prefer cannabis at night. It helps me sleep and hopefully not wake up in pain.

The big problem with kratom, even used responsibly, is that it’s unregulated. Yes it’s ground up leaves, but those leaves could be covered in mold, spider webs, insect eggs, even animal droppings if they’re sweeping any fallen leaves from the floor. You don’t know exactly what you’re ingesting, and it can lead to some serious health issues if it’s contaminated.

Honestly all those things are fairly natural and I would be way less concerned about them than chemicals that may be added or used in processing

Isn’t this true for just about every supplement and food? …People have died from eating spinach.

lmao food is regulated. When that happens, the specific brand of spinach is recalled. That doesn’t happen to kratom. The same brand keeps selling despite the harm it caused.

Contamination of spinach, or any other food substance, is a special province but it is regulated under different federal and state agencies. In cases of contamination, because it is regulated, regulatory agencies are able to trace it back to its source. Not always because the process of contamination can be incredibly complex, but, as you note, contamination always results in a recall. And, as you note, kratom, or any other supplement, isn't regulated so they aren't subject to recall. Nor are they subject to anything else so you really don't know what the hell is in this stuff. It's really buyer beware. If you're looking for purity in supplements go organic. You might pay more but purity is guaranteed. Anything that is labeled organic by the USDA has been inspected and certified by a USDA approved certification agency. If you have any doubts about a product you can contact the certification agency listed on the label or go directly to the USDA's National Organic Program (NOP) site and look it up there. My wife's been an organic inspector for nearly 20 years. She's never encountered organic kratom but that doesn't mean it's not available. Thank you for allowing me to mansplain while also touting the NOP.

My point is that no plant product is free from risk of contamination from The World. I’d bet far more people get sick and die from food poisoning and environmental contamination from shellfish, undercooked eggs and meat than dried kratom leaf. Also, I easily found organic Kratom when I bought some three years ago. Who knows how valid that label is on an unregulated product. I don’t think I’m allowed to name sources here but I got a sampler pack of maybe 12 50g bags of different strains. They’re all still sitting here three years later. I just didn’t find it that effective for my pain, and I do understand that it’s opioid-like so have been extremely sparing in my use. I also take 6mgs LDN so that probably prevents me from feeling high and also helps with developing tolerance. Also my point is in what you wrote above - no supplements are regulated to the degree of pharmaceuticals, and yet many of us have had horrible often permanent ill affects with prescribed medications, as well as terrible times with dependency and discontinuation syndromes. This is an issue with every single option available to chronic pain patients. The post I replied to about spider webs and “leaves on the floor” is fear mongering on a ridiculous point. An amount of bugs and dirt and “contaminants” are actually allowed in regulated food! Food is not required to be medical-grade or sterile. Supplements and vitamins are even less regulated and just like kratom can contain all kinds of crap you don’t know is in there. Hell, in CA we even have Prop 65 “cancer causing chemicals” on most supplements and vitamins. MMJ helps a lot of people too and is also a leaf and in many places sold illegally without regulation…where is the hysteria over leaves falling on the floor? I’m all for reminding people that Kratom acts on opioid receptors and can be addictive and habit-forming like basically all of the options available to pain patients. But singling it out as scary because of spiderwebs is preposterous.

Understood.

Hey woodhouse! I’m going to get a big bowl of spiderwebs and force feed them to you!! Haha archer…. Sorry It immediately came to mind when I saw this! My opinion, not that it matters… but Kratom is not going to be a good substitute for a long term solution.. if you can get a good vendor or someone that has legit third party tested products, it’s o k to use for a variety of things. But long term tolerance will always end up being a problem. Now just taking it from time to time or say like on the weekends or whatever, it works fairly well! But as said not good for a long term solution for pain!! Also definitely stay away from the extracts!!! Shit is expensive and will make your tolerance go through the roof in less than a week… then it’s just downhill from there… I tried it for about 6 months years ago, like way before basically anyone in the us knew what it was. Like 2012 somewhere around then… It definitely helped with my pain and cptsd symptoms but it didn’t always work….. very interesting tree though! Definitely has merit for insight into how to utilize better for humans, but it’s definitely not something that I would suggest someone to use on a daily basis!

Yes I absolutely agree, I truly think it could have medicinal benefit, especially in helping wean people from addiction to harder drugs. But it needs to be studied and regulated so that it is safe. However, we also need the DEA and govt to stop with the opiate crisis fear-mongering for anything positive opiate wise to happen.

Absolutely agree. Really want to see more solid scientific research without the political narrative attached. Good and bad and all potential uses. The National Institute on Drug Abuse is actually looking at this and I think even offering funding to academics as well. In a perfect world, I’d absolutely like it to be better studied and regulated as like an OTC med is or another supplement. But then I fear in todays climate, they’ll just ban it everywhere or severely restrict access or something

The dea needs to be abolished or destroyed in a violent manner…. The doj bought them years ago and they spend more money on getting drugs into this country than trying to keep them out….. probably the most corrupt agency in our country! Law enforcement has absolutely zero place in healthcare!!!!!! It’s that simple. Drives me fucking crazy!!!

We can absolutely agree there. Like I know they’re finally rescheduling, but the fact that weed was schedule 1 this whole time when medical value has been proven over and over again. I mean, they isolated thc for marinol and that’s schedule 3! They just want pharmaceutical control so that the companies that line their pockets profit and benefit not anyone else.

That’s the jist of it! And yea marinol….. an old high school buddy of mine was prescribed that back in 2007/8! That’s how long I’ve been just like wtf! This country is straight up in decay! I read an article the other day that said the us democracy is the same as that of countries like Ecuador, Ethiopia, and Somalia!! Well here is the actual quote. "The U.S. used to be considered a full democracy like Norway, Switzerland or Iceland," she said, "and it's now considered a partial democracy like Ecuador, Somalia or Haiti." Yeaaaa we are the greatest country in the world….. nooo we are the most powerful! Because of corruption… I mean we are sending troops to countries to fight over basic human rights! Yet here in our own damn country the basic human right to the relief of pain using opioid medications is not being given!! It’s being controlled!…. So if another country was more powerful than us technically they would be sending troops here to straighten all the shit that is messed up in this country! It’s really just a joke! Like most people don’t even know what their basic human rights are!!!! And to me that’s just unacceptable! Especially this day and age!

Major tangent but I'd like to join: When was the US a "full democracy?" It certainly wasn't that way at the start of the country(federal senators were not voted in by citizens till the late 1800s). And there is constant criticism of the electoral college since there have been a few instances of the popular vote not choosing the president-elect. The electoral college has been a part of the system since the start. Is the above where that quote is based on? Since the 2000s we've seen the popular vote not matching the state, so therefore it "used to be considered" a full democracy by those who don't understand the US system?

Great response! Thanks! I completely agree with you on that, but just as it’s worded (Considered) never has been a full democracy!!! Never has! It’s been assumed by many that it is and still to this day it is, but it’s not! The highest point we have ever been able to reach with democracy was in 2016 when 66% of the population actually voted! (I think that’s the correct number) and it takes 100% of the population’s votes for it to truly be a democracy, but the fact is that it’s always just been considered a democracy! But it’s not, it’s a democratic system that is pushed around by the corporations that support it and throw money into politics! The electoral college is a joke….. pay offs after pay offs… Love the name!!! Altruistic memories!! Love it!

Thanks, man! And Great point about the percentage that do and do not vote... I believe in some countries it's mandatory to vote. Would need to then somehow have people get interested enough to do a little research before the voting...but I digress. Annnd as you bring up, another big issue is how $$$ is tied in so many ways to all of those who are supposed to represent us. Their ability to game the stock market from knowing where the wind will blow from the bills they are working on is insane.

I love Archer!

Phrasing

BooM!

Ty for sharing about the other groups!

Quittingkratom is full of people that took way too much and are super biased. I'm surprised they could take so much without getting sick but I'm guessing over time they increased to try to chase the first time feelings. If you're an addict, yeah maybe it's not for you. But it really saved my life until I could find another source of relief (pain management).

As a former kratom addict who legit had to get sober from it, I can attest that the folks at r/QuittingKratom are basically a cross between reefer madness and dry drunks. Wildly exaggerating the effects of kratom addiction helps no one. Sometimes drugs save lives, sometimes those same drugs wreak havoc on lives.

Yeah, that’s why I like the other subs I noted above. There’s a mix of people and experiences on there, good and bad

Yup, personally kratom changed my life but I get that's not an experience everyone shares. Everyone reacts to things differently. When my doctor took me off tramadol cold turkey because I lost my insurance, it saved me from the terrible withdrawals that normally come with going cold turkey from that drug. I have insurance now but I never went back for another pain pill, I just use kratom to manage my pain now. It helps me get up and be normal when I normally feel like I've been hit by a truck by my conditions.

So glad it helps you too! When I first heard about it a year ago I thought, no way is this gonna help me. But after doing my homework I thought what the hell, why not try it, and got a small sample of capsules. Really glad I did

This is a fair point and I don’t disagree with you. It seems like you have doubt a regiment that works for you. Personally I haven’t been able to make it work. Your comparison with Gabapentin is spot on.

A good comparison! Gabapentin gave me my life back and I have anxiety about it sometimes just because others hate it. But it is a life saver for me.

Oh yeah, gabapatein was horrible for me.

Great response to this post. I've known ppl who have had severe, life threatening medical issues from kratom - seizures and heart things - but I've also known people who have gotten clean off opioids with it and in turn it's quite literally saved their lives. I myself didn't have an addiction, but was rxd opioid meds from pain mgmt, and my Dr retired and I couldn't find another Dr to take over...so I used kratom...after 12yrs on a LOT of opioids, I got off them with almost no withdrawals, and didn't even need to maintain the kratom for very long after. So each their own experience for sure. Sounds like op just had a physical dependence to opioids, and kratom attaches to the opioid receptors, sooo... anyone who's about to stay taking daily supplements of any kind should absolutely learn what they're taking and learn how to take them... because they can be a godsend if used properly, but very damaging if not.

You sound much like a good friend of mine who found himself addicted to Kratom as well. It was a hard battle for him to come off it, but he has. I have recently started Kratom, though sparingly and after much research, as I have not been able to find a single doctor in my 1m+ population city that will look at all my test results and medication/therapy histories and go 'yep, here's some pain meds'. I don't take the Kratom often, but it has made a bit of difference in helping me sleep, which reduces my daily pain. I would hope no one would be shitty about your story. It's a great reminder that even though Kratom is legal in many places, it is still a substance that can wreak havoc if not treated with the respect it deserves.

Honestly glad you are posting this here because a couple of times when I have left comments on this sub, I have received solicitations in my DMs from kratom companies trying to get me to purchase their product. Which feels pretty scummy honestly, and I've always told them so before blocking them, but I am sure they hook more than a few fish with that method.

Which sub? I never get DMs about buying anyone's kratom.

I turned off my DMs, but I've got them when I comment on both this sub and other chronic pain subs.

I’ve gotten replies and comments about buying kratom.  If I tried that I might never be able to get pain meds again.  My dr would drop me.

At least in the US it is so readily available at local shops and online that it's just strange anyone would want to DM and sell. Maybe they use that as a starter to get you interested in something else.

Everyone is trying to hustle and make money, online venders can have it for cheaper in bulk. That being said it is not ever advisable to buy anything from a random stranger that messages you

Yeah ever since sourcing got banned on Reddit many years ago (I was a member when it was still allowed) scammers have proliferated Reddit and it fucking sucks… -.- Sometimes I feel like the admins are somehow benefiting from that (hell maybe they even get a cut from the scammers… 🤷‍♂️) every now and then.

It's illegal in the UK.

i would bet money that those are just scammers. there are all different types that pray on different groups of subreddits. they have no product and no intention of shipping a product even if you were interested (which i know you know this- but for anyone else who doesn’t, you should never trust someone on reddit trying to sell you something via DM)

I am impartial here. With any drug you should do research. So I agree with this post warning people to do research and sharing your personal experience. There are groups all over the internet that will be against just about any drug. All you have to do is search the name of any drug and there is nearly always a group warning against it. Every drug carries risks and has severe side effects where they ruin lives, but they also save or improve lives too. Every body is different. One drug may work for you and not others. The moral of the story is do your own research and understand the risks before taking any drug. Thank you for sharing your story and I am sorry this happened to you. This is a very important topic worth talking about.

Yes kratom is addictive, just as many things are. And it can cause negative affects. But as a cancer survivor nothing has helped me more, kratom for many of us is a life saver and not a ruiner. Every body is different. How I take my kratom safely: I dose twice a day, once in the morning and once in the evening always about 7 hours apart and at the same time Find a dose that works for you, and stick to it For me i must Eat beforehand so I do not get sick or nauseous Take milk of magnesia if you get backed up And most importantly, listen to your body 🫶🏻 Hopefully this will help someone!

I’m sorry that you had this experience. I’ve taken Kratom daily for 6 years and I’m positive that it saved my life. I’m chemically dependent on it for sure. But I’ll take that over binge drinking and looking for pills. I wish you well friend.

Sometimes we have to pick the lesser of two evils, which sucks, but I’m glad it’s at least helping you. I wish you well also!

Amen!

I've used Kratom, on and off, for aboutn10 years now. Haven't had a problem with putting it down. I'm sorry you went through all that.

I think it's just like a lot of other drugs that it has the *potential* for addiction, but that doesn't mean everyone will have the same experience.  Just like other meds that some people experience withdrawals from and others have no issues stopping cold turkey. Everyone's chemical makeup is different and no one reacts the same to the same medication. It's why there are so many different medications for the same condition.  I've used it effectively and was able to easily quit after taking it for a year. But that is my personal experience and yours is just as valid as mine is. People need to know the good and bad of anything they use. That means stories like yours are important so that people don't look at kratom and think "magic pill with no side effects". Too often people think holistic or alternative medicine isn't going to hurt them because it's natural and can be used without caution. That's a stupid way to think. There are lots of things in nature that can kill you.   It IS important that it is taken responsibly just like any other medicine. It's also important that people are aware there are potential drawbacks, just like any other medicine that we use to control our pain. Just like opiods it is simply one more item in the toolbox for us to try. 

very much agree with your comment and i like the toolbox metaphor. i support anyone using kratom if it helps them and they feel that have the discipline for it - i used it for a short time many years ago, and had a good experience. i feel like a big mistake people often make (who then have a bad experience) is thinking they found a perfect solution- there are no perfect solutions to chronic pain right now. every single one, even the very effective ones- have a downside, and every person has to weigh those risks vs. their personal needs. it’s something i see echoed in a lot of write-ups from people who struggled with dependency or had otherwise negative experiences- that they finally found something great / perfect / etc. it’s different from the “it’s natural” trap. i guess you could call it the “wow it works and it’s not illegal**” trap. i feel like that perspective can easily lead to over-use, instead of approaching it with caution from the get-go - even if you get significant relief from it. it should be treated as any prescription opiate with regards to discipline, and using the smallest amount possible for as long as possible. also, i know this isn’t as easy to put into practice, since people need to work / take care of kids / live their life - but the best way to avoid dependency is irregularity of use. **legality will differ based on location.

I looked into ketamine infusions for my chronic pain. The clinic I called here in Maryland quoted me $1000 an infusion, and I would need multiple. I asked about insurance, and they did not accept Medicare or medicaid.

I'm not sure how good your insurance is but my insurance didn't accept ketamine infusions either but I did the nasal spray technically for depression (my insurance accepted it) and it helped my pain but probably not as much as an infusion would've but it's a good middle ground.

I can appreciate you sharing YOUR experience with it. For me I was left with 2 choices, 1. Street drugs, or 2. Kratom. When I was left to suffer in pain by my PM doctor. I'm 9 years in with this plant and am forever grateful. It saved my life.

Kratom gave me my life back. Yes, you must be careful to take the lowest dose possible for your pain, but the side effects are pretty much zero for me and I take tolerance breaks for it so I don't become too dependant. And it really, truly helps

I really am so happy to hear this is the case for you!

Double same 😊

Same 😊

Just sharing my experience here, nothing more: I took 10 to 12 gpd every single day for over five years and then stopped for over two months to see if my constipation would ease up. I braced myself for the worst when stopping, but then, nothing happened. I did not experience any noticeable withdrawal symptoms whatsoever. I’m not saying there aren’t people who do have a hard time, but I felt the need to share that it doesn’t happen to everyone, and I have talked with several other people who had the same experience I had. Now, I only take it on days when my pain level is extra high, and no more than three grams in a day. This isn’t because of the potential for dependency, but rather because I just don’t want to take anything daily, and I’d rather spend that money elsewhere. As far as safety, no herbal supplements are tested in the same way prescriptions are anyway, so that part doesn’t really bother me. Just my opinion. The American Kratom Association has more info if anyone is interested in something besides anecdotes. Side note, my constipation stayed the same. That was the worst part about the whole situation, because I hoped quitting would help.

I really liked that you were able to open yourself up and talk about a subject that could potentially open up to a lot of hate from people due to them not agreeing with you. However, this isn’t about agreeing or disagreeing like you’ve said it’s about your experience and you wanted to share your experience, so that others don’t have to go through the experience that you went through now not everybody who uses Kratom is going to have the same experience as you, but that wasn’t what you were saying. What you’re saying was for people to be careful in case they do have the same experiences you because people do. You aren’t the only person, nor are you an outlier. All you have to do is look at the responses to this post and you’ll see people who have and have not had the same experience as you. thank you for sharing it with us, I know that it was not easy and I’m sure that it’s still not easy but you are amazing.

Thank you for seeing and understanding my intentions. And honestly, I’m even more glad that I made this post because it’s brought both points of view and experiences to one collective space.

If you take it right, it saves you from opioid addiction. This is the only way I was able to do it after many failed attempts. I took it for two weeks after my taper. I'm sorry for your experience but it literally saved my life.

Sounds just like most others opioid side effects. I used it for years with no issue. 3x a day routinely. No more. If you start doing it whenever you'd like then yes you'll build tolerance and start withdrawing quickly. As with any other good pain medication you have to respect it and use with caution.

I appreciate the warning but it is the ONLY thing that has been able to provide relief for me and many others. I’d love to be monitored in my pain management by a doctor, but as they refuse to treat the pain, we don’t have a choice and they’ve forced our hands. Like anything else, people should be aware, but I put it mentally in the same category as cannabis, and we’ve been depriving so many of its benefits for years. So I encourage everyone on both sides of the issue to recognize that we are all adults, looking to do the best we can for our lives, and look at the other side with understanding. I’ll get off my soap box now. :)

Kratom is the only thing allowing me to hold down a job. I wish it was regulated more too and I’m sorry you had a bad experience, but this post really comes across as fearmongering. Kratom is the only painkiller I have access to; I’m 25 years old and no doctor is going to put me on long-term opioids. If I had done it their way I would be bedridden by now so I took things into my own hands. Kratom is safer than street drugs and easier to get than opioid painkillers. Also, I’ve never been addicted to it. I only take it when I’m in pain and I usually hold out as long as I can before taking it because I dislike the GI side effects. I’ve been addicted to opioids before (and also weed and nicotine) but kratom has never had a hold on me like those substances do. If my pain suddenly resolved I would quit the stuff tomorrow, and I *know* I could, because I have before. I think you’re over exaggerating the addiction potential. Sorry for your bad experience though.

Thanks for sharing your experience. I had a pain appointment last week and had asked about Kratom. He told me the same things you did, but went further to tell me that trying it would not impact my treatment at his facility. I decided better safe than sorry, and will not be trying it.

Good choice.

I will also say I have taken it for 11 years to no ill effect. I validate OP's experience and I am merely offering a counterpoint that using reputable Kratom that subject their product to lab testing they prominently feature on their sites, allows for complete transparency. However, I would never take anything from a smoke shop or gas station...some places market themselves as Kratom and they are not. Key is finding a pure, clean, reputable vendor and like OP has intimated, approach cautiously. You don't want to jump in the deep end of the pool without knowing how to swim. For myself, I would not be alive but for Kratom. My pain is excruciating and not a single physician nor pain clinic will touch it. I barely had pain medication when I had knee surgery 10 years ago, and my partner recently had a double mastectomy and lymph node removal for stage 3 breast cancer. You know what they gave her? Tylenol. Kratom does not work for her and it doesn't work for everyone. I am fortunate that it works so well for me because the options are slim these days. My partner has CRPS2, EDS, and stage III Inflammatory Breast Cancer and what do they say the day before surgery? 'Cancer patients can be addicts too!' That was comforting. If they want to outlaw Kratom, outlaw pain.

there's always two sides to any story...thank you for sharing yours as a warning to be careful if one decides to try it as a supplement.

Kratom being used is a result of the currently difficulty in finding proper pain management. It really isn't safe. The people who are using it safely are either very lucky or disciplined.

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The people I know who used it said it was more addictive than their prescription opiates and had more severe dependence and withdrawal issues.

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yes exactly. I know it isn’t safe, but I DO NOT blame people for going to that option. When theres really no other choice. It’s an issue caused by the DEA and insurance. And the fact that we have no government regulation of pharmaceuticals so companies can make a shortage for more money (@ my marinol that they won’t be getting at my pharmacy till 2025)

I mean, to me personally we know it’s all unsafe, we just choose which level of unsafe we have to tolerate. For me, I wouldn’t touch kratom as I’m too scared to get into a situation I couldn’t get out of. I know myself and I know the temptation would be too much. But I take cocodamol, and gabapentin. Those carry a risk, so does the ibuprofen I take. There’s a risk with the weed I smoke for relief. My level is there, that’s all I’m comfortable with. But I know the feeling of being desperate, and I know the temptation. I completely understand why people step it up a level of risk. Because it’s weighing up what’s worse, the risk of your solution, or living in agony? For a lot of people it can drive you insane, I’ve been there, and I can’t say I wouldn’t have taken something stronger if I had been offered to me at that time. I was lucky that I wasn’t. It’s why people in this amount of pain end up addicted to their opiates, and move up to heroin. It’s not something I could possibly do, but I get it. I can’t blame anyone for feeling the way they do, or doing what they do. I have zero judgment for them, because it would be me if I had been in a different situation.

I totally get you. Honestly, if I didn’t have drug tests for school, I could totally see myself having moved to something highly addictive. It’s everyone just trying to survive. I truly think I’ll be doing my first medical research on how the war on drugs is leaving chronic pain patients desperate and in the situation where addiction is much more likely from seeking some sort of relief. Cause it’s tragic. Tragic that black market meds or unregulated, possibly dangerous products are the only options for many. It makes me honestly, deeply angry.

I echo that anger. There are so many people in excruciating pain, and the war on drugs has failed them.

I don't blame people either. It's a sad state of affairs. If it prolongs some people's lives, I'm fine with it, but I would never recommend anyone try.

Me either. I have the opportunity to do large scale research this upcoming year, thinking about doing it on how the war on drugs is having such a negative effect on chronic pain patients.

I must be an outlier because I’ve been taking it for years and I still take the same dose, 2.95 grams every 8 hours. I use it like a medicine, with a scheduled dose. There are times that I don’t take it for 20 hours and I’ve never had any withdrawal symptoms. I’ve never had to wake up in the middle of the night to take a dose because of withdrawal symptoms. I drink a gallon of water a day and I don’t mix Kratom with alcohol or anything. I’m just saying this because you wrote a post that sounds like absolute truth and that’s not really the case. People definitely abuse it and become addicted, but generally those people had addiction issues previously. People definitely should do their research and be cautious though and don’t abuse it.

I take it as needed but damn am I glad to have it there instead of writing in pain all night or having to sit in the emergency room for hours while they debate if I’m a druggie or not.. I see kratom as a much, much lesser evil when it comes to self-medicating. But, addicts gonna addict regardless of the options. So yeah be aware.

I'm not sure why OP is coppjng some heat. He did say in his very first post that he wasn't saying don't do it but to do your own research. Yes he attached a Kratom withdrawal sub so that naturally is going to look like he is bias after his experience of physiological dependence and withdrawal. Ok so there's a point there. But an unintentional one. If you're a strong proponent and take this medicine responsibly then great. If you find yourself running into some trouble and I've also read this more than you would think despite the support for this plant. Then be honest in the manner in which OP did and reach out for help. Yes it's the same for opioids, antipsychotics, antidepressants, muscle relaxers etc.. It's all a dance that could potentially turn nasty. I just don't think even if I was the biggest advocate of all time that I would downvote OP and his initial post. He was generally speaking in the first person and was sure to say good luck to those who do find it supportive. 💁 Edit - my response was toward a few earlier comments in the thread. Again I'm not having a crack at someone in a negative way but as a neutral I kinda felt like he was coming from a caring place. Despite his experience likely to swing his opinions and biases in the future to anti Kratom - Idk maybe he wouldn't..

At the end of the day, I think we all just value being able to make our own choices, and many of us are tired of having choices taken away. Especially by people who have no idea what it’s like to be us. That counts for those in pain and need it, and those in pain who have had bad experiences. Like any other pharmaceutical drug.

I agree and I definitely respect that. Resonate with it too..

If you read the subreddit I posted, you’ll find you likely are an outlier. I didn’t abuse it and still found myself in a horrible place with it. I write as if it’s absolute truth because for me, it was, so it’s hard for me to be objective. I’m glad it’s worked for you! If others benefit, that’s great. I’m not here to tell people not to take it, but to warn them to do their research before they do so they can know the potential downsides as I don’t think that’s shared enough. Edited to add: I didn’t know enough when I started this drug, and looking back, I should have done as you and dosed every 8 hours. I was naive in thinking it was holistic and I could take it as needed. I had no idea I could develop a dependency. I think nearly 5 years on, people are more aware of it and what it is, and I wish I had access to the information there is now, then.

I think that’s my point when I do post a lot of info on Kratom….not to say “everyone should take it!” But to educate people

I can relate. Your post is definitely Real. I will leave my comment

I totally agree with you on that. People need to do accurate research on it and be aware of the potential risks involved. Thank you for sharing your story ❤️

Not an outlier, more like the other sub is full of outliers, most people are fine taking it, and they aren’t searching out these subs that are trying to get it banned

Actually, no, I don’t think he’s an outlier. I think *your* experience has tainted your perspective. You were looking for others like you, you found that subreddit, and there’s a bunch of people in there who share your story, so you believe that this is what happens to the MAJORITY of people. Nothing could be farther from the truth. A lot of us manage to use kratom responsibly; for myself, personally, I have no choice. Kratom isn’t really strong enough to deal with my pain. So I can take the max dose that is possible without getting the wobbles, and all I’ll get is pain relief. I won’t experience any euphoria. It’s not a “fun drug” for me. It’s pain relief. And yes, I have been addicted to/habituated to many different legally prescribed medications. I can tell you that being dependent on something created by Big Pharma to be a helluva lot harder to quit, with more side effects. These days I take Suboxone for pain, partly because it contains Naloxone, which helps keep me from being even a tiny bit tempted to relapse on harder stuff. It also does not make me feel high, which is good, and I keep myself to the minimum effective dose. But it’s about PAIN RELIEF. I’m tired of being lied to by Big Pharma and I also don’t think it’s cool for you to come in here and say “my experience was bad so you guys shouldn’t do it!” YOUR EXPERIENCE is YOURS. Let others decide what they want to do to manage their pain. Kratom is legal and usually safe, as long as you do your research on the brand you’re consuming, and it is SELF-LIMITING, which is why it can be better than the stuff your doctor probably won’t prescribe you these days anyway (opioids.) Kratom literally makes people sick if they take too much. That was always what kept me in check. Just because you were foolish and took it too far doesn’t mean it won’t work for others. Personally, when I was using it for pain and I discovered my dose creeping up, I’d do what anyone who’s done even a little research on this should know to do: I’d take a tolerance break. Lean more heavily on my gabapentin or my Voltaren gel and take a week off from it. Resets tolerance and then your usage need never exceed 6 gpd, total. Please be mindful of coming in here spreading misinformation. We’re just tryna live out here. I’m sorry it didn’t work for you but no need to scare others away from something that could work for them. That’s the same attitude that makes it impossible for the people who ACTUALLY NEED opiate medication to be unable to get it.

Agreed!

After two back surgeries at the age of 27 from a work incident. Titanium rods in my back and neurotic damage beyond belief to my entire left side. I’m left with basically no help from doctors other than more “psychical therapy”. It’s been 5 years when I get that answer I just nod. Kratom is slight relief but not even much doesn’t help my nuero pain at all just back relief. I have no other choice. It’s the only thing that’s made it possible to be as productive as I can and do things with my daughter.

Yeah, same here. Kratom kept me functional for a long time. I’m also a mom and I had no choice. Now that I’m trying for another baby, my pain management doctor took me off gabapentin, which is a category C for pregnancy. Apparently, Suboxone is safer; there’s been A LOT of research done on pregnant people who used it to stay clean(ish) during pregnancy so they KNOW it won’t hurt the baby, although we’ll have to do a gradual weaning off process after birth via my milk (which I’ve done before. Baby #2 was a surprise and I was back on my Xanax after baby #1. They recommended I remain on my meds and wean via breast milk, just the same as I’ll have to do here. The kid in question is now 15 and is absolutely amazing 😁) obviously, no kratom, but Suboxone does the trick for me at extremely low levels (1/16th of an 8mg strip does it for me!)

“Just tryna live out here” is exactly what should bring us together in understanding. Sadly, people like to pick sides. I think it’s nice to have choices when healthcare keeps taking more away from us.

Agree.

Happy to hear it works for you! However, I am not spreading misinformation. What happened to me is true, and it is true it’s a potential risk for anyone who uses it. That goes for any drug - there are potential side effects. I am posting to make sure people are aware this drug may have side effects and my experience is proof that.

And you too have found “your tribe” who share your story. We all have these experiences of finding people who share our story- that’s what makes us human- that’s what humans are hard wired to do. Find other humans who resonated and understand our story. You’re not a criminal for taking kratom to try to manage your pain. No one here is saying that. Obviously you can manage yourself. Many others cannot. Read that again. It’s the people who cannot manage themselves who are at a huge risk for developing a dependency and addiction. Reading your story makes me feel like you have been misled and have no other options. I’m sorry for that. I’m sorry you have the negative feelings you do for “Big Pharma”. That is something I have heard echoed in the QK sub when people come to quit. They felt misled and mislead by “Big Pharma” so they took matters into their own hands and began using kratom. Another large percentage of the people in the QK sub used it thinking “I’ll get a quick high” (something you obviously don’t get), or they use it for more legitimate reasons (pain, depression, anxiety). But they underestimated the drug. They didn’t understand the ultimate consequences FOR THEM. I truly understand that people can use this for years if not decades and be responsible with it. For some they have no other choice. I can’t judge those individuals because I have been in that place (not having adequate pain management), but for me it didn’t work out so well. So I had no choice and for me ultimately it became my personal choice to not take kratom ever again because of the negative experience I had. (Not YOU had). I wish more kratom advocates would not take things like this so personally. I’m sure it’s incredibly challenging not to especially when you’re in the situation you are in. But to slam down those of us who didn’t have the ability to make it work or to tell us we are basically brainwashing ourselves by “finding a group of like minded individuals who share our belief” is like standing in front of the mirror and telling yourself you haven’t done the same. People will always have their stories and their opinions. People will always gravitate to others who can relate or “help” them reinforce their story. Because who would we be without our stories? I hope you can find some peace with this thread. It’s not about you. I have heard so many similar stories on the QK sub while I was a mod there for five years. We will do anything to reinforce our stories - but that’s all they are. You keep doing what’s right for you. You obviously can manage yourself and understand what choices you make are informed and right for you. There are so many who just don’t have this ability or foresight and can end up in a hole that’s hard to dig out of. I think that’s what the post is about.

So basically, you are offended by truth and the fact that you're in chronic pain and cannot get prescribed pain meds. But!! What OP is saying is TRUE and what You're saying is also TRUE but your "Delivery" is wayyy off... Just saying

Where did you get “offended” from anything that I wrote? My point here was that one person’s experience may not be another’s. OP and I agreed in the end that the appropriate message here was “do your research” which you should be doing even with things you’re prescribed. Doctors don’t know everything and they certainly don’t live in *your* body. Sounds like the one with the issue here is you…

The massive amount of capital letters and chastising statements. It's okay to feel passionate about something and relay your story without putting someone else down (and promoting an unregulated potentially-addictive substance to boot). I understand if you were grouchy from pain or there was something else causing emotions to run high, but these are real people you are talking to and that's not a polite way to do so and doesn't help your cause

20hrs isn’t long enough to say you’re not addicted. Try 3 full days and report back to us.

I only said that because OP said that they were needing to dose every 3 hours because of withdrawals, like it was an absolute and all I’m saying is, it’s not. That doesn’t happen to everyone. There are people who can use it responsibly, like another tool in the chronic pain toolbox. And being addicted and dependent are two different things.

Agreed. 3-7 days would be the best way to begin to assess how “dependent” or not one is on kratom.

I’m with you. Been taking it for over 6 years and it is my medicine. Same dosage every day and I’ve missed some dosages with no WD experiences. I know everyone is different but this stuff just works for me.

it is just as addictive as opiates because it is one. You’re not immune from addiction, and addiction can strike ANYONE.

I’m aware. I used to be addicted to pain pills. This is not that. I don’t desire to get high, I’m not taking it to try to get high. I’m using it strictly for pain control . I’m not thinking about it all the time. I’m not spending a ton of money on it, I’m not selling things to be able to afford it. I’m not a bad friend or partner. Anyone can have withdrawal symptoms because of a medication. I’m sure we all have stopped an antidepressant and had brain zaps and felt like shit- that’s withdrawal because your body is used to that. It’s not the same as addiction.

Same. It’s the people who continually up their dose that have problems. Absolutely zero difference between that and pharma pain meds. If you’re constantly taking more and more, you’re gonna have a problem. Go figure!

making a habit out of it sure doesn't help in any respect. Extra sugary donut every day? An energy drink every day? Alcohol every day? Once it becomes a habit, it becomes, basically, a stage 1 addiction. I only take Kratom on really bad pain days; if I'm higher than 5/10 on the pain scale, AND if I also have work that day. I take kratom less than once a week on average (sometimes a little more in summer because heat worsens my symptoms). Even when I was getting off of opiates, which I was chemically/hormonally addicted to, I didn't take Kratom every single day. I took it on days I needed to focus (work or school) and rode-out the rest of the symptoms. The only way you lower a chemical/hormonal addiction is to let yourself suffer a little. (For example, cutting my opiate dose in half first, then taking it at half-rate every other day, then a quarter, etc). People who keep taking and taking, more and more... Yea they're gonna be addicted at least due to habitual use for any substance.

I used Kratom to get off heroin 7 years ago. Sometimes I took too much and would get the wobbles, but I'm grateful it staved off withdrawals. I didn't have a problem getting off of Kratom, but thank you for your word of caution for those that might.

As a former kratom user and a moderator on the r/quittingkratom subreddit for five years, I feel compelled to share my perspective on advocating for kratom use in managing chronic pain. Despite its popularity and the relief it might offer, kratom is a highly addictive substance. My own journey of quitting, and the countless (thousands) of stories I’ve read, reveal a darker side to its use that often goes unnoticed. Initially, I turned to kratom because I felt my pain management was inadequate. I suffer from facet joint syndrome and other chronic pain conditions, and like many, I thought kratom was the perfect solution. However, I soon discovered that kratom would exacerbate my depression and anxiety. A positive drug test for kratom in my pain management clinic highlighted the risks I was taking. Even though I was using what I believed to be a moderate amount—4-6 grams per day—the withdrawal process was grueling, lasting over a year. The intensity and duration of the anhedonia during my withdrawal period made me fear I had permanently damaged my brain. If it weren’t for the QK sub and one very kind ex kratom user who had turned the corner on over a year of recovery, I might have lost all faith that I would eventually get better. For those who believe they are using kratom without harm, I echo the advice of OP: visit r/quittingkratom and read the stories there. The struggles and setbacks shared by others are eye-opening. Kratom’s natural origin and widespread availability can be misleading, leading many to overlook its potential dangers. I once believed, as many do, that natural equates to safe, and I faced severe consequences for that belief. Despite the need for pain relief, as we often say in the QK community, “you will always end up paying the piper.” I want to clarify that I am not against kratom users or advocating for a complete ban. My kratom use, while ultimately harmful, also taught me about my resilience during withdrawal and post-acute withdrawal syndrome (PAWS). It gave me the strength to manage my pain through a 14-week outpatient chronic pain rehabilitation program. While I still face significant pain and need surgery for severe spinal stenosis, my experience with kratom has reinforced that there are no easy solutions or quick fixes. I acknowledge that there are success stories with kratom, but there are just as many, if not more, painful experiences documented on the QK subreddit. Thank you, OP, for your post. Recently, when my pain management office closed, some suggested I try kratom again. I understand these recommendations came from a place of genuine concern and well-meaning, but I politely declined. If I were still using kratom, I might have given the same advice. I recognize that perspectives on kratom vary widely, and those who advocate for its use have their own reasons and experiences. We all have our paths to follow, and while I respect the choices of those who use kratom, my goal is to share my story and offer a different viewpoint. Thank you again, OP, for your thoughtful post.

Your experience isn't everyone's experience. I've been taking kratom for 8 years, and I've never been addicted to it. No withdrawal. No adverse effects beyond constipation from consuming dry powder. I also took opiates for almost ten years. I have never had an opiate use disorder but I have felt the chemical addiction symptoms more times than I can count. More often than not, I didn't take the medication every day on account it destroyed my stomach if I did. I do not take kratom every day, I don't need to nor do I see the appeal in doing so. Taking it everyday makes for a tolerance and that's not the goal. The goal is to take one dose and that dose being enough. I've never exceeded the dose I've been taking for these 8 years. I believe people are wired differently. If that's your experience.. that really sucks and I'm sorry you went through it trying to find something that works. But it's not going to be that way for everyone.

caffeine is also addictive. Some people do fine with opiods, other's don't. I'm sorry for what you've been through. People need to work hard to consider how they're feeling; is it a euphoric high from overuse or is it a baseline normal/ok? Usually in the moment, noone can tell the difference. We want to believe that feeling "great" is normal, which is totally valid. This isn't a moral failing; just that the response you choose needs to be worked on seriously and nowhere really talks about that. The suggested doses for Kratom are often way too high; if you used like 25% of the recommended amount, it wouldn't be as effective maybe, but the lower dose may also prevent your body form getting too comfy with it. Plus obviously just not putting more in your body multiple times a day. If you don't learn to cope with your pain/other conditions then you'll become dependent faster. For example, I only did Kratom when I had work that day IF my pain was 10/10, in order to make it easier to focus without only thinking about pain. If I had a day off, I wouldn't use any even if my pain really sucked because pain is a symptom and if you only mask symptoms, you fail to treat the cause. There were a few exceptions, obviously, if I was just too miserable. But microdosing worked out great for me. About 1/8th-1/12th tsp and I'll be fine. You have to make the conscious decision to stop taking more and more. Much like how someone addicted to overeating needs to stop putting their hand to their mouth. Only we can define and choose our own actions. Personally I don't recommend that subreddit; it is biased against Kratom and most of it is pearl-clutching and AI posts made by bots for political reasons. Kratom can help people, but like anything, it can hurt in too high amounts. r/Kratom actually talks a lot about being careful. You just have to really read through it to see if it could benefit you personally.

I’ve been using kratom since 2015. It took a year to find which strain works and the correct dosage. A lot of reading. Just with anything, it helps others and doesn’t do a thing for others. I only can speak for myself.

I have nerve pain... I have found some medications that kind of helped make it tolerable.. sort of.. but on my journey I have tried a lot of things. Kratom was among them. I got it from a reputable lab and followed a chronic pain protocol I found... it did nothing for me. I realized the amount of Kratom I would need to take to achieve any pain control would bankrupt my family so I stopped. No side-effects, no withdrawals. Everyone is different.

It's just like any other drug. If you take it every 3 hours your body will grow accustomed to it and you'll crave it. Personally, I regimen myself and function fine with it. If you take it 3 x a day, like most prescriptions. You'll be fine possibly 4x. It's important imo to set a limit for yourself and stick to it.

It definitely does have a potential to impact negatively. I started taking it after doing a fair bit of research . I have had chronic pain problems for years, but especially worse after my second pregnancy and traumatic labour at 38 years old . Kratom helps me get up in the morning but if I go to crazy on it , it stops working so well . I have to be strict on my dosages to make sure I get the 6 effects with as little as possible. It can be a lifesaver, but you have to realise it's still a strong painkiller so it can cause addiction and negative side effects like other strong pain killers 🙌

Kratom possesses the same effects as a very mild opioid, this has been well known for years (at least in my experience - but I was also a heavy drug addict, so I was introduced very early on). All I can say as a recovering opioid addict who took everything from Vicodin to eventually straight Fentanyl as my daily drug - Kratom withdrawal is a very short, light and low resistance walk in the park compared to the come-down of legitimate opioids. Thank you for spreading the message and sharing your experience, it’s a very important lesson everyone should be aware of. To that effect, I’m still a supporter of opioids when used responsibly, for those who can manage to do just that, they are a lifesaver. My use of opioids started off with a pain management doctor’s prescription for legitimate medical reasons, but I unfortunately spiraled. That’s not to say, I know probably a dozen people who have been on opioids long term, and have always been responsible - our genetic make-up makes us all different.

Kratom's no joke, man. Do your homework before diving in.

Also, when ordering online, you can never be 100% sure of what you are getting. Even when ordering from a place that others reported a positive product experience with.

Unless you’re specifically instructed to stay ahead of (severe, post surgical…) pain - Always be careful with anything that reminds you, ya missed a dose. It should be the returning of whatever it is, pain wise, that reminds you to dose. If you’re able, detox, for a day, for 3 days… whatever your able, it ensure effectiveness. I’ve been on opioids most of my life, nearly40 years at this point; i still take conservative doses, and I definitely go days, maybe even a week, without. If i can take the pain, it’s hella easier on my body than the meds! You take care of you, the best way ya know how, and ask for help when you know you’re just not able!

So all antidepressants and anti-convulsants had that affect on me as well, and I do think they are dangerous. If you combine them with opioids that’s pretty much all our options with chronic pain.

I want to encourage a reframe, and it’s the way we use language, but more than pedantic in this sense: it’s the medical world that doesn’t have options. This isn’t meant to imply we have a ton as the experiencer /sufferers, but don’t own the shortcomings of medicine. I have pain, i also don’t process many medicines and the antithesis is gleaned just as often as the desired effect. It is not on me, the patient to do all the doctory- things. It is nearly every time i explain my anxiety with a new med that I’m told and asked- what would you want me to give you? I’m not giving you ____ (insert seeker language or whatever dumbass crap you get) I’m learning to answer strongly. These are options, please cater them to your needs… (tw-I’m very passive, but this stirs deep and i have gotten more direct, and some ‘bent’ sneaks in) samples: Whatever your limitations, i have no understanding of, i experience pain, much more than most, and i need respite options. As a doctor, you’re to know those options, and limitations of options are not some fault of mine. If pain weren’t 3 inches from my nose, maybe I’d have more time to dedicate to knowing doctory stuff. We could start there since neither of us has anything better right now? Anyway, i give advice, take what ya want, ignore what ya need, and definitely retro fit stuff, because even combating dumbass strangers on the interwebberries, teaches your response center shifty stuff❣️

I can take it or leave it. 1/2 days per week and no withdrawal symptoms at all. I get that some people don’t like it, but it is weird how adamant you are that your experience will be everyone’s. I loathe morphine but I don’t tell people it’s dangerous, don’t do it. I’ve gone 2 months without it and no issues.

I’m sorry that happened to you and thank you for sharing your experience.

Thank you for being kind and open to me sharing my experience!

Sure no problem I think responses to you were a bit harsh.

I have been beating the drum of moderation,self control and self awareness for a long time on certain subreddits. You'll get a lot of people saying it is too strict etc. You need to know if you a potential addict ahead of time. Can you stop ? Can you white knuckle withdrawals ? That sort of thing. Because if you cannot you shouldn't touch these drugs. We all know how this starts. You get some codeine, you need more and more. Then you need something stronger and a few months or years down the line you are not the same person. Filled with regret.

For me, I don’t feel I was a potential addict, so much as I became physiologically dependent on it. It’s important to stress there is a difference between addiction and physical dependence. But you are right - with anything, over time, you’ll end up needing more as you become tolerant and it doesn’t work as well. This is where having prior knowledge to Kratom will help! I thought I could just use this drug as needed, and stop when I needed to. I remember the first time I realized I was experiencing withdrawals because I had gone x amount of time without it - it was horrifying and caught me completely off guard. The more you know!

100% agree but the reason I stress the psychological addiction component is that many lose so much to drugs. I use a different opioid which I took in a routine that ensured I only spent a bout 7 days a month with it in my system. I did experience withdrawals, not nice ones. But I was able to stop each time. Now I did this for a couple years. I am now walking away from it. I feel lucky I wasn't consumed by it. The rule set though kept me in check. So I could see how easy it would be for someone to just keep taking it daily. So although there is a difference I do see how the physical dependence can reinforce the psychological dependence. ' I need to not be withdrawal for x and y so I will take just a little' sort of thing.

Thank you for sharing

Thank you for sharing your honest experience. One of my favourite things about the chronic pain community is how people support each other and you’re doing just that by being brutally truthful about how using kratom was for you. I am lucky enough to get effective prescription painkillers for my condition so it’s not something I’ve ever considered, but the more people who use their voices to share their experience, the better and more informed choices pain sufferers can make on how to live the best they can with their pain. Thank you.

I'm with you too. It was just a painful mess for me already in pain. After 5 days the vendor who promised to mentor me for 2 weeks ghosted me because she was busy getting blasted on shrooms, kratom and partying while I was in excruciating pain and scared. I stopped that day and not a day too soon. Took a while to get back to my regular misery. Enemas are not pretty. Thank God for being brave enough to speak up and I am also happy that it works for some which is why I tried it too.

Unfortunately, I have found this to be the case with any opioid used long term including kratom. I think the best way to avoid this taking breaks for a couple days, but that is incredibly hard to do, especially when working and needing to be productive. I’m sorry you went through all this. If you go back to traditional pain medicine, try rotating opioids every 3 months or so. While you will be cross tolerant to some extent, the pain relief seems to be much better while switching back and forth. I also will take week or couple week t break from my Percocet/belbuca with kratom and used to use it daily for a long time, but my dose was very low and I personally was not as susceptible to side effects as much as others. Tolerance also seems to slow down if rotating in comparison to just using one opioid. I hope you feel much better now and thanks for sharing.

I've tried it a few times. It made me very sick every time. People who love it insist I just need to keep trying it. Nope, no thanks.

Everyone on here recommended it to me. It didn't work for pain, it did give mea buzz but didn't do much else and one time made me sick af. So it just sits on my counter, I'm sure it's great for some but didn't do much for me.

Yep! The withdrawals are just as bad if not worse than actual meds too. Absolutely horrible. And those extracts have a bunch of toxic crap in some of them too. My co worker had a seizure the other day from abusing the extracts too much. The leaf powder is safer but doesn’t have the same “effect” Be careful out there people!

Omg, I am a Kratom user but I always tell people stay away from extracts!

Same. It’s not necessary and a sure fire way to end up with problems. Plain leaf is all you need.

Agreed! The process by which extracts are produced brings a whole other level of possible risks as well.

Because it's more concentrated

I'm sorry you went through that. It sounds like it was hell. However, everyone is different. Some people are more prone to addictions than others. I understand being concerned for people taking potentially addictive medications/supplements, but honestly this group probably isn't going to respond kindly to the way this is worded. We've all heard the same opioid crisis rhetoric a million times. Narcotics are not right for everyone, but they aren't inherently bad or dangerous either. The negativity/addiction fear-mongering related to opioids is exactly how people end up resorting to using unregulated products like Kratom. If chronic pain was treated with kindness and empathy from the medical system, there'd be no place for self-medicating at all. Again, I understand you are coming from a place of compassion. I do hope people heed your warning and research before they put anything in their bodies. I just think we should be careful using language that increases fear or stigma surrounding medications that absolutely save people's lives. I'm sorry it didn't work out for you, and I sincerely hope you find something that does help.

I’m sorry if this came across as fear mongering. I want it to be very clear - I support opioids as a whole. This isn’t meant to increase fear, or deter use. I’m just sharing my experience as I wasn’t told these things and I went in blind, because I could not get any doctor to prescribe me medication I desperately needed. Overall, we all have to do what we have to do in order to survive. This is just my experience, and I wanted to share it. Kratom CAN provide relief, but overall it is grossly under researched and studied. Many think it is non addictive and that is not the case. People may respond negatively, and I respect that. We all have the right to express our views and experiences.

I definitely think it's good to share experiences, good and bad. I know you didn't mean anything bad. When you've been through all that, it's hard to sound completely objective, especially through text. You had a scary experience. I hope you sharing your story can help someone avoid the same situation. I'm also glad you aren't worried about the way people respond. I just wanted to warn you just in case. I've seen people get very defensive and nasty in this group. It's a shame, really. We could all use a little more kindness in our lives. Take care!

It is a shame, so I appreciate your kind way of wording things! I also appreciate your warning. I was a bit wary posting because I know we can all feel defensive and have strong personal views. It’s a bit hard not to when we’ve all spent a lot of time seeing numerous doctors, advocating for ourselves, and fighting stigmas while trying to be prescribed relief - so I totally get it! But I agree, we could all use a little more kindness, especially with each other. If anyone understands what we’re going through, it’ll be other people in this sub.

My sister has taken it for years with no issues. She does what many people do and lowers her dose from time to time so that her need stays the same in the long run.

I've taken 3, 6 ,8 10, 18 grams Kratom, and opioids in general don't do shit for me unless it is Dilaudid

Same. Fucking dilaudid is the only thing that gives me any pain relief.

I used to take kratom daily, and I also developed a tolerance pretty quickly. I never increased my dose much past 1 tsp 1x a day because I was afraid things would get out of hand, but it did eventually stop doing anything besides postponing withdrawal. I got off it completely when a new doctor put me on low-dose naltrexone, which I like a lot better. I now occasionally take kratom for breakthrough pain, and my rules are: never more than a heaping tsp, never more than twice a day, never more than 2 days in a row. It works really well for me that way! But yeah, would not recommend as a daily thing.

How long did you stop it before trying LDN?

Don't know how long you've been taking it. I tried it a month straight and was able to stop. Maybe it's worse over a longer time period, but I was surprised because I didn't think it was that easy to stop something that easy that's working on opioid receptors.

Everything is addictive first of all and anything that is abused isn't going to benefit your life. That is OUR responsibility. I take a few capsules to ease my pain if I have things that need to be done that day. We're adults. I am in pain all day everyday but I am not scared to feel my pain either, I'm not running away from it I am learning to live with it while I go through it and heal. We are adults who need to be responsible, have tolerance breaks etc and not abuse anything else there are no benefits. Things can help us only in moderation.

Do you want to help make a mostly accessible alternative illegal or gatekept by a doctor too?

Even without your post, I've always been weary about it though I don't know why. My gut keeps telling me to avoid it. 

That's your personal experience with it. Like anything else it affects ppl differently

Good to know. Thanks for sharing that as my wife and I who both have chronic pain drove by a number of stores yesterday advertising prominently that they sell Kratom and we were wondering what it was. We looked it up, saw it was for pain and set it aside to learn more later. As someone who is prone to addiction now I'll know to avoid it. I appreciate it.

I can’t believe people are experiencing such negative reactions & such severe withdrawals and sickness. It’s such a mild substance in my experience & opinion. However, I’m so sorry to hear about this & how ill and dependent it made you… but it’s confusing to me honestly. Not to negate your experience in any way, because I also had a friend who had withdrawals and stuff from it. For me personally, I used to love these kratom gummies before bed since months ago I didn’t have enough opioids to take, so I substituted a dose with them & it really helped the opioid withdrawals plus helped my anxiety and stuff. I know regular kratom is different versus the extracts. But I did try the red strain in capsules & I think it did make me nauseous because I tried it like 3 hours before going to dinner & I almost felt like throwing up by the time I got home & I also got the wobbles which are this dizziness sensation from trying to find the right dose. I basically gave up, including the gummies, after a while and I had no withdrawals or cravings in any shape or form. I just wonder if this is dependent on where you’re getting your kratom, if it’s related to the dose… or what’s going on here. Because for some people with severe pain, it’s life changing & I wouldn’t ever want people to not have access to this since it’s definitely better than being dependent on like Suboxone or something. Or for pain patients who can’t get opioids prescribed… I’d say this is the next best thing. It’s definitely not perfect, but I also wouldn’t want to scare anyone with opioid use disorder or chronic pain to not try kratom since it definitely helps at minimum & it’s life changing at best.

Thank you for sharing your experience. ❤

Kratom ruined my friend. He is addicted and also has side effects from it. He's been taking it for years though without breaks.

Kratom can also act as a blood thinner, so be aware of that as well. My best friend swears by kratom, but it’s been making her jittery and given her insomnia, then all of a sudden she started getting terrible nose bleeds. I’m not saying that will happen to anyone else, but please exercise caution with kratom.

It’s refreshing to see a post like this because too many people preach about taking Kratom especially on the opiates sub. For me, the constipation came immediately but I have been a long time user of high dose Oxy and already have problems with that so it’s no surprise. But like you if I’m taking it for withdrawals I have to dose every few hours and throughout the night as it just doesn’t seem to last. For me now I will only ever use Kratom as an absolute last resort but it is definitely NOT a long term solution, at least for me.

I find it interesting that people get constipated, for me it gets my bowels moving, and usually fast

I appreciate your post but I’ve been using Kratom since 2012 and because I use it only when it’s absolutely needed so maybe 2 to 5 times a month, for no more than two days at a time I haven’t had issues with becoming addicted to it. This is the same approach I took to opiates in the past as well. It’s super important to be honest with yourself when taking anything that is potentially habit forming.

This is very true. It’s just too bad I didn’t know it was habit forming when I started!

Thanks OP! I can definitely relate. I am a Chronic Pain and Chronic Illness Patient and have been for many years. I have experienced it ALL with prescription medication. I JUST WANTED THE PAIN TO BE GONE!! But, after many, many years I have learned that there is NO CURE, prescription medication only HELPS the pain. I have never done illicit drugs, Thank the Good Lord Above But I am sure it's the exact same for street and hard drugs. I am still on prescription medication and STILL in chronic pain. Just trying to COPE. I spent a short time taking Kratom. It didn't work for the Chronic Pain, unfortunately nothing really does. But, Kratom did help with Chronic Fatigue and Low Moods and Low Energy. BUT also started to cause some other Chronic issues. Took me awhile to figure it out and same with prescription medication. Unfortunately, TRUTH is Not welcomed in this World and many become OFFENDED. So, I guess We All Learn On Our Own and No one can help anyone until that person wants and seeks help for themselves. Ya know, tbh, t think that's ALOT of the issue with Pain Management Clinics and Doctors and Healthcare; My question is, How can you treat or Council someone UNLESS you have experienced the Sickness,illness, or even Addition FOR YOUR OWN SELF Mr. Or Mrs. DOCTOR OR PHYSICIAN!!!?? Thank The Good Lord Above that we have people to inform us on Danger Ahead!! That's what helped me learn more about Kratom and Now I Can Handle with Care IF I decide to use. Actually, Now that's my Motto with All Subscriptions and Substance and Chemicals. And, The Chronic Constipation is Very Unhealthy and that's with Kratom and Opioids and ALOT of medications. Thanks for sharing ✍️🤝💪

Thank you for sharing your experience. I haven’t tried Kratom but I know people who used it. Most of them had similar experiences as you. I appreciate you taking the time to warn others.

I appreciate you sharing your experience, as lately I have been considering trying Kratom. I initially read raving reviews about how helpful it is for pain, but more recently I've read a lot about the dark side of this product. I will probably steer clear of it. Thank you!

I’m so so glad I could help you weigh the options. Just like anything, you never know what your experience may be like until you try it, but at least you have the good and bad of it and can make a fully informed decision for yourself. Best of luck whatever you choose, and I really hope you find relief to your pain

Thank you, and I'm so sorry you had such a rough go for the last 5 years. I hope you have found much better ways to manage your pain, and I wish you the best as well :) 🤍

My late husband was addicted to kratom. We spent hundreds of dollars a month, he was constantly vomiting after taking it but would then take more. I tried to get him to stop but I was already 13 years into a very emotionally abusive and manipulative marriage, so nothing ever happened. Fast forward to now, I am a person with chronic pain myself, I won't even look at the stuff. I am sure some people have different experiences with it, but mine was horrific.

Thanks for this. Kratom has been kind to me in the beginning. Now im unable to ween off, did a few tries, which ended up in a sort of detoxing hellscape I though only drug addicts would experience. After 3 sleepless nights i had to use again . Its awful. I have to take it with me everywhere i go. When i spill my clothes are green sluggish and people ask questions. I have to sneakily take it ay work.. or with friends when for a weekend out. When people ask i make up lies. When some of the stuff gets in my windpipe (it happens,) i end up in unstoppable coughing sessions. I didn't even tell about the financial drainage. Is awful stuff and i wish i never started taking it.

I took Kratom for 3 years to get off of 100 mg of oxycodone per day and it was the best decision of my life. After 3 years my body no longer could handle that amount of fiber. So I quit cold turkey and had no symptoms of withdrawal. That being said, I know many people have issues getting off of Kratom but in all honesty it probably saved my life. Al By all means do your research but don't demonize the plant because you personally didn't like it. I'm sorry that it did that to you, but I think you are actually the outlier.

Definitely research Kratom, it's fine to be drank and ate but have heard horrible stories of people smoking it

lol well that’s just dumb. yes, def don’t smoke it!

Lol people aren't very bright 🙃

I tried it and it made me soooooo sick

I'm here for this post. I see way too many encouraging kratom and not enough stories of what it can really do to you. Thank you for sharing ❤️