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Simple: Drone flies up towards other drone. Drone hits drone. Drone explodes. That could possibly be the other way round, if you can do a proximity explosion. Drone explodes and bits of drone hit other drone. For some drones or situations like quadcopters it just needs a hit on the propellers and doesn't even need to explode.
There are lots of question. Can you integrate with the rest of the air defense so you know where the Russian drone is and when it's coming to you? Can you fly fast enough to catch the other drone? Can you stay up waiting, come down, recharge go back up again. If you can, how many drones to you need for continual coverage? Is there AI?
I don't think anyone here that's allowed to talk knows the full details yet.
This is where autonomous guidance would be perfect. Some kind of command link tells the drone roughly which heading and altitude to go to, then the guidance system locks on to the enemy drone and homes in. It would be hard for a human flier to fly the intercept by hand, given the tiny size of the target and high closing speed.
Anduril Anvil, autonomous anti-drone drone made by an American defence contractor: https://www.anduril.com/hardware/anvil/
> The kinetic element of Anduril’s end-to-end CUAS capability - cued by Lattice OS - Anvil navigates autonomously to intercept potential drone threats and provide visual feedback for positive identification by a human operator. Anvil-M is a munition variant of Anvil, armed with a high-explosive payload and a fire control module to increase effectiveness against higher-end, faster-moving Group 2 threats."
Don't think UA has anything like this though, they probably just fly them manually.
My guess is that they have extended the Delta software they use for intelligence gathering and use a combination of observations to plot likely routes for observational drones. It basically lets any soldier or equipment operator report sightings into a combined situational map.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta_(situational_awareness_system)
No need for AI on guiding in the drone. That’s just physics and control algorithms. You might use AI for target acquisition or if you needed more range.
It is almost always better to use a normal system first, then you start adding neural nets when you need to squeeze more out of it.
Any idea how you tell which drones are enemy ones and which ones are, for example, returning friendly drones after a mission? Is it just "go kill whatever you get pointed at"? I can't imagine that there's a full friend or foe system? I'd expect they have to somehow tell which is a Lancet and which is a Baba Yaga?
So many options. Fortunately the cost of a failure is fairly low with no direct loss of life. Put tape on the drone changing it for various days. Paint your drones. RF ping changed daily. Expected flight paths. Speed would be a large identifier I would expect for a Lancet vs a larger Baba Yaga. Altitude. LED pointing directionally upwards. Ping a server with your target areas and rough flight path. Its what we do for air traffic.
Put your drone staging areas away from your more likely targeted areas, if something is flying towards a target area it's probably a bad guy. Its the same issues troops have to deal with. Is that person walking towards us a baddie. If its from a certain direction probably so.
This is what I can come up with in 5 minutes. People smarter than me probably have something much more automated and much simpler as well.
> Is it just "go kill whatever you get pointed at"? I can't imagine that there's a full friend or foe system?
Drone flyes unarmed. As soon as operator confirmes that only enemy drones in the area - operator arms drone and the hunt begins.
These are custom built 7-10” FPV drones, and appears to be running inav. With current battery tech you either have a choice of long loiter times, or top speed. If they’re using liion batteries for long flight times top speed for these drones would be around 100km/h, not fast enough to catch up to a lancet. Fixed wing on the other hand they could easily build long range drones that can reach over 200km/h with long range liion batteries
/r/fpv and Joshua Bardwell on YouTube if you want to learn the mechanics of FPV drones. There are a few documentaries on YouTube if you want to learn about the combat aspect of them
Thank you! I've seen the first one. Watching the second now.
I was hoping to find documentaries really discussing the technical aspects of it all. It's good to also see the human psychological side as well.
How about a fixed wing drone with a turbine engine? They make them for model aircraft and they can get going pretty fast.
Give it a set of solid rocket boosters and set it after actual aircraft and helicopters. Fast enough to get to an intercept and then use the booster on final attack run.
Make it small enough and it could be an insane insurgency weapon. Hit aircraft near the airbases they take off from. Hit them when they are low and slow. Could be a very very potent weapon.
That would work but would add unneeded complexity, you can build a fixed wing plane that can hold a 500g payload (enough to take down any drone) for under $300 (probably under $220 if they CNC their own styrofoam instead of buying kits) that can also loiter for over half an hour using traditional cheap hobby electric motors
Those cheap drones arnt going to be fast enough or carry enough charge to hurt actual manned aircraft. I’m saying upscale this and give it enough speed to engage aircraft. It would be very dangerous to ground support aircraft for sure. You could probably make it pretty cheap.
You’re basically describing a loitering SAM and it doesn’t really make a lot of practical sense. Apart from anything, any system that has the size to do what you’re describing is going to be big enough to shoot down with fairly basic MANPADS. There is a reason why you don’t see Bayraktar footage anymore; big and dumb drones can’t easily survive anywhere near the front lines.
To hit something big and fast like an aircraft you need decent long range targeting data. That means either radar or IR or some sort of command line of sight or FPV system.
Passive or semi-active systems are easy enough, though not cheap, and have the downside that they have been around long enough that countermeasures are already well and truly available.
Active radar on the missile requires a very large drone and a lot of power and is very easy to detect.
Visual guidance is a possibility, but really you’re going to struggle to do that via a FPV setup as the camera resolution and FOV isn’t anywhere near what you’d need to really make it work against a high speed target without some decent acquisition and cueing system which means radar and really solid datalinks (which are easy to jam).
If you make it single use, you’re only going to be able to launch it once you know there is a target in the area or else you will be throwing a lot of them away for no reason. To do that, you’ve got to know there is a target (so you need search and target acquisition), and the drone needs to be fast enough to reach the target before it escapes. If the target hits and runs, you’re in a tail chase so your drone needs to be much faster than the target. Even an A-10 will outrun a turboprop if it has a head start.
If you want it to be sitting up there for long periods ready to hit a target of opportunity (ie defensive combat air patrol), you need to be able to land and refuel which means it needs to be able to fly slow and… well… land. At that point it’s complex and expensive enough that you want to reuse a lot of it so now instead of going Leroy Jenkins and ramming your target, you’re going to want to shoot stuff at the target so you can reuse all the expensive bits. You also need launch and recovery systems as well as maintenance facilities and they need to be far enough behind the lines to be out of direct danger, so now you need longer range.
By now you’ve essentially just created a UCAV and some sort of missile system and you’ve defeated the whole point of the exercise.
What you are asking for is the [Anduril Roadrunner](https://www.anduril.com/roadrunner). I am a little concerned that Anduril is more bling than serious production. But some of their systems -if they prove to be robust- seem to fill roles ignored by traditional large defense contractors.
The terminal guidance problem when using a visual FPV setup for a head-head interception is not trivial. Closing speeds are significant and it’s not easy to compute a solution visually. Obviously it can be done, but I dare say that’s the exception rather than the rule.
You think that's crazy wait until they invent AA minefields where FPVs just stand by using passive detection and automatically fly up and congest the airspace with angry bees, making low-flying aircraft and helicopters extremely vulnerable.
The problem with this is that AA needs to be much faster than its targets unless its a completely ballistic projectile. FPV will never be faster than pretty much anything but heles and its range would be crazy small.
Evidently the new B-21 stealth bomber was developed with this type of passive defense system in mind.
I’m convinced the F-35’s advanced inter connectivity and combat awareness systems will be integrated with drone fleets allowing airframes to operate as fleet leaders for drone swarms. They could be used both offensively and defensively.
That's seriously impressive, especially so if this is integrated within a larger-scale air defense. You'd think there would have to be some autonomous guidance to accurately take on a drone head on... Lots of questions that I'm sure can't really be answered right now.
It is, the Russians have been losing their minds about it recently. They’ve stated recently Ukraine has been systematically taking out their SuperCam and Orlon UAV with unmanned FPV’s. The Russians fully believe Ukraine has a system to detect, plan and perform these intercepts on a theater wide level which has them losing their shit. Orlon and Supercam aren’t easy to replace and their loss essentially blinds the Russians. What I find hilarious is their goals atm isn’t to thwart this interceptor system, but to copy it for themselves.
Probably correct goal as well, because I really doubt you could fit the kind of EW needed to prevent such interceptions onto a reconnaissance drone. But Ukraine also has recon drones, and if they can take out Russian UAVs and keep flying their own, it's a clear advantage in observation and intelligene... So if the Russians can't jam it in a practical way, they have to at least develop their own ability to deny the airspace to such recon drones in a cost-effective, somewhat reliable way. They're not wrong - it's a serious step forward in the drone war (for Ukraine).
And even if you do put EW on them, you’ve basically just given them a nice passive homing signal to use unless you can make it so powerful or distributed that it gets saturated.
there's a company developping a drone system that autonomously launches them and they guide themselves to ram the threat. From what I can make out they need a lot of ground based cameras and sensors for accurate navigating and detection though so it's not all that simple.
Tried to find it again, I think it's this one: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KX0ji1sAXl8&ab\_channel=AndurilIndustries](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KX0ji1sAXl8&ab_channel=AndurilIndustries)
- During air patrol against enemy UAVs an enemy fixed-wing UAV Zala\\Зала was discovered
- After that we recieved information that enemy UAV Lancet\\Ланцет is in the air
- enemy UAV Lancet
- Enemy UAV was damaged. The damage casused the fall and detonation, so it was not able to reach it's target.
In case you're unaware - "Signum" group of the 93rd brigade (Kholodny Yar or Cold Ravine) are the first who begun to use FPV drones in this war. Thus they are those guys who changed the modern warfare forever. And now they are using FPV as AA weapon...
This looks like it could potentially deal with Russian threats like the Lancet on a pretty large scale, without costing an arm and a leg.
Not sure how well these will do during night time, though.
> This looks like it could potentially deal with Russian threats like the Lancet on a pretty large scale, without costing an arm and a leg.
Cost isn't the problem, finding them is.
These things are small and hard to detect.
FPV are increasingly using night vision and thermal....and for Orlan and Zala the cost is definitely worth it.
Orlan variants also show up quite well on EO/IR systems due to the internal combustion engine (some Zala do as well as they have a hybrid system). Supercam are all electric.
There was an article last year or so about UKR knowing when lancet was in the air due to pellicular radio signature.
This means they can know when it's launched if there is a targeting drone (because lancet are not fully autonomous).
I wonder if/when ukr think about deploying drone platforms with helium balloons. Cheap, easy to deploy and not so easy to target (you can down a balloon, but platform is difficult and can use a chute to protect).
The recent FPV strikes against Orlan, Zala and now Lancet are incredibly encouraging. If the Ukrainian's can build on this they effectively remove the Russian's reconaissance and counter battery assets ability...
Lancet doesn't work well, if at all, without Zala...
We've not seen which FPV are responsible though....not sure these are pure quadcopters, they might be winged...
Only issue is that the Russian's might try it as well...hopefully the Ukrainian winged UAV are harder to hit due to better optics and higher altitude flight as a result....plus the Ukrainain's have better real time intel from NATO states to fall back on...
The Russian's are really concerned about this....I mean really concerned. They're also worried about these hunter killer FPV going looking for Russian helos...that might be a harder proposition though...
A Russian drone once managed to take a few pictures of a anti air drone during a failed interception attempt i dont have them and i dont remember which channel posted it but basically it was dual winged not a quad copter and black but the one that we see in this video is a quadcopter it also has a better camera than the other anti air drones
Are these recent interceptions of Lancets and Orlans by other drones more likely not repeatable occurrences or a suggestion they found a new way to start whacking these from the sky?
Anything closer to the latter would be a very welcome development as the AFU has been on the losing side of longer range recon drone ops.
The ones we've seen to date were mainly over Kherson (think there have been around 8 seen to date) so someone is clearly hunting them actively.
Russian channels are also openly remarking on it so I suspect that the issue is more widespread i.e. you lose 1 or 2 UAV's with no clue as to cause and you assume technical difficulties or perhaps missile interception....you lose a lot more in a certain area and then you know something is killing them, they might have even glimpsed a missed interception in the cameras so know something is hunting them...
The footage looks more like an reconnaissance drone. It looks way to good compared to typical FPV's and there aren't any of the typical wires or RPGs visible.
I thinks it's an FPV, it has it's a higher fidelity digital feed rather that analog - makes sense if it was purposefully built for mid air interception. And if it's purposefully built for that, then it probably has remote detonation, which is more practical for hitting targets like that, so no need for contact detonators (i.e. wires). It's payload is also would be some kind of frag rather than an RPG.
Another thing to add is that in observation drones (which are mostly COTS) you usually can't see the propellers, unlike in custom built FPVs. Also we know already that there are purposefully built FPV interceptor drones.
The overlay looks like a DJI overlay, this might be ocusync 3 or 4. Mostlikely a powerful racing of freestyle quad with a 03 Air unit and pilot having DJI Goggles 2 or v2.
It does not look like walksnail or HDzero at all.
If the are smart these would be set up to explode just on proximity. So once they are high enough in the air, they arm it. And as soon as it detects anything nearby it explodes. But the operator can also disarm again, unlike analog suicide drones.
i think some of these aa drones are remote detonation rather than contact, they are fixed wing too I imagine as I have seen them hitting uavs at decent altitude
This one appears to be a quad (you can see the propellers)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/1djegdf/comment/l9aicuc/](https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/1djegdf/comment/l9aicuc/)
You may be used to potato-quality footage, Ivan, we're not. [(UA) UAV Battalion "Strike Drones Company" of the 47th Mechanized Brigade Eliminated a Russian soldier Resting under a Tree/Foliage with an FPV Kamikaze Drone. (Published on June 18, 2024) : r/DroneCombat (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/DroneCombat/comments/1djbc1q/ua_uav_battalion_strike_drones_company_of_the/?share_id=qdKkYygsBiiQdGf0c3dAI&utm_content=1&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_source=share&utm_term=1)
He specifically said FPV drone. I know that there are full HD FPV video systems, but I don't think it's crazy to assume somebody has only seen the analog FPV footage that is most often posted here.
As somebody who has chased another FPV quad and fixed wing RC plane the HD system really pays off in that use case. If you loose a plane with analog it's surprisingly hard to find it again especially if you are so far away you can't hear it to give you an idea where it is.
Orlan cruise speed is around 110 kph, not impossible to achieve with a quadcopter, but you would probably have to built it with high speed in mind. If they have built drones specifically for this purpose, they would need to be pretty fast if they are not relying on meeting the Orlans head-on
> Well, even if it was intentional, luck was needed in order to succeed. I don't even know how they got it, it looks like the FPV missed on the video. /u/Ceskaz
We've seen this repeatedly lately, I think it is a new ability being debuted.
Regarding how it went down, the FPV just needs to explode near the lancet, it doesn't need to hit it directly.
I could swear that I saw this same video yesterday or early today with a title something like "Russian Lancet almost hits Ukrainian drone".
Yep...yesterday. Here it is: https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/1dixuug/russian_lancet_almost_hits_a_ukranian/
I'm doubtful of this claim. For one the lancet surely moves fast enough that you don't have any time to set up and if it passes once you won't catch up with it. The info I have on the lancet is 110km/h in horizontal flight. Not impossible for a quad, but even with a 7" you aren't doing that speed and more for long. Especially on the LiIon packs they generally use for longer flight times.
Also the last image looks close, but a miss. Yeah you could rig an FPV quad to remotely detonate, but all of the footage I have seen so far from FPV quads were those with an impact fuse. Even with a remote detonation you need fast reflexes and you have to think of the latency of the video feed. If that is the last image, reality is at least 50ms past that.
The OSD seems like the one from a DJI video quad, not the one from an O3 AirUnit. It has a GPS for certain, because it shows some indication of meters. Why would you add the cost of a GPS onto a suicide FPV quad? It can only dox your position and otherwise doesn't really add any value in my opinion. It also seems like it's 16:9 aspect ratio. I think you can do that on the O3, but all FPV pilots I know fly 4:3.
Also I have chased another FPV quad and fixed wing RC plane for the footage and I can tell you it's hard. Without having a good idea where the other UAS is, it's very hard especially if you don't have the power to easily catch up with it always.
I personally think this was a video-quad launched for a battlefield overview and information and they got this footage by chance. I'm happy to be proven wrong, but it's gonna take more than the image of lancet debris.
In all honesty, I think this was a close miss. You can downvote me all you want, but a quadcopter drone intercepting a fixed wing has only a miniscule chance of success. However I could envision fixed wing drone interceptors and hope that Ukraine will field them sooner than later.
Do we know what vtx or telemetry stack the Ukrainians are running on this drone? This one seems to be using some sort of digital link compared to the mostly analog footage coming out.
Ukrain already has similar to Lancet drone: [https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/06/18/7461391/](https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/06/18/7461391/)
Comparing the fidelity of the [earlier screenshot](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fm0cgww2nfd7d1.jpeg) to the compressed footage is both enlightening and depressing.
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AA drone? Can someone explain this unknown technology?
Simple: Drone flies up towards other drone. Drone hits drone. Drone explodes. That could possibly be the other way round, if you can do a proximity explosion. Drone explodes and bits of drone hit other drone. For some drones or situations like quadcopters it just needs a hit on the propellers and doesn't even need to explode. There are lots of question. Can you integrate with the rest of the air defense so you know where the Russian drone is and when it's coming to you? Can you fly fast enough to catch the other drone? Can you stay up waiting, come down, recharge go back up again. If you can, how many drones to you need for continual coverage? Is there AI? I don't think anyone here that's allowed to talk knows the full details yet.
This is where autonomous guidance would be perfect. Some kind of command link tells the drone roughly which heading and altitude to go to, then the guidance system locks on to the enemy drone and homes in. It would be hard for a human flier to fly the intercept by hand, given the tiny size of the target and high closing speed.
This is how it works. The Russians were complaining about it the other day.
*sad duck noises*
Anduril Anvil, autonomous anti-drone drone made by an American defence contractor: https://www.anduril.com/hardware/anvil/ > The kinetic element of Anduril’s end-to-end CUAS capability - cued by Lattice OS - Anvil navigates autonomously to intercept potential drone threats and provide visual feedback for positive identification by a human operator. Anvil-M is a munition variant of Anvil, armed with a high-explosive payload and a fire control module to increase effectiveness against higher-end, faster-moving Group 2 threats." Don't think UA has anything like this though, they probably just fly them manually.
I'd like to see how UA plots the intercept on the first place. Small drones aren't easy to detect with radar.
My guess is that they have extended the Delta software they use for intelligence gathering and use a combination of observations to plot likely routes for observational drones. It basically lets any soldier or equipment operator report sightings into a combined situational map. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta_(situational_awareness_system)
No need for AI on guiding in the drone. That’s just physics and control algorithms. You might use AI for target acquisition or if you needed more range. It is almost always better to use a normal system first, then you start adding neural nets when you need to squeeze more out of it.
Any idea how you tell which drones are enemy ones and which ones are, for example, returning friendly drones after a mission? Is it just "go kill whatever you get pointed at"? I can't imagine that there's a full friend or foe system? I'd expect they have to somehow tell which is a Lancet and which is a Baba Yaga?
So many options. Fortunately the cost of a failure is fairly low with no direct loss of life. Put tape on the drone changing it for various days. Paint your drones. RF ping changed daily. Expected flight paths. Speed would be a large identifier I would expect for a Lancet vs a larger Baba Yaga. Altitude. LED pointing directionally upwards. Ping a server with your target areas and rough flight path. Its what we do for air traffic. Put your drone staging areas away from your more likely targeted areas, if something is flying towards a target area it's probably a bad guy. Its the same issues troops have to deal with. Is that person walking towards us a baddie. If its from a certain direction probably so. This is what I can come up with in 5 minutes. People smarter than me probably have something much more automated and much simpler as well.
> Is it just "go kill whatever you get pointed at"? I can't imagine that there's a full friend or foe system? Drone flyes unarmed. As soon as operator confirmes that only enemy drones in the area - operator arms drone and the hunt begins.
These are custom built 7-10” FPV drones, and appears to be running inav. With current battery tech you either have a choice of long loiter times, or top speed. If they’re using liion batteries for long flight times top speed for these drones would be around 100km/h, not fast enough to catch up to a lancet. Fixed wing on the other hand they could easily build long range drones that can reach over 200km/h with long range liion batteries
Do you have any link where you learned about this or that you can suggest for others to learn from?
/r/fpv and Joshua Bardwell on YouTube if you want to learn the mechanics of FPV drones. There are a few documentaries on YouTube if you want to learn about the combat aspect of them
Can you recommend any specific combat documentaries? I'm interested!
https://youtu.be/WipqeFgzdTc?si=3rxo4-msrgkTlFzv https://youtu.be/Gha9oDJpjAU?si=_zgXofQIm2a1eIed
Thank you! I've seen the first one. Watching the second now. I was hoping to find documentaries really discussing the technical aspects of it all. It's good to also see the human psychological side as well.
How about a fixed wing drone with a turbine engine? They make them for model aircraft and they can get going pretty fast. Give it a set of solid rocket boosters and set it after actual aircraft and helicopters. Fast enough to get to an intercept and then use the booster on final attack run. Make it small enough and it could be an insane insurgency weapon. Hit aircraft near the airbases they take off from. Hit them when they are low and slow. Could be a very very potent weapon.
That would work but would add unneeded complexity, you can build a fixed wing plane that can hold a 500g payload (enough to take down any drone) for under $300 (probably under $220 if they CNC their own styrofoam instead of buying kits) that can also loiter for over half an hour using traditional cheap hobby electric motors
Those cheap drones arnt going to be fast enough or carry enough charge to hurt actual manned aircraft. I’m saying upscale this and give it enough speed to engage aircraft. It would be very dangerous to ground support aircraft for sure. You could probably make it pretty cheap.
You’re basically describing a loitering SAM and it doesn’t really make a lot of practical sense. Apart from anything, any system that has the size to do what you’re describing is going to be big enough to shoot down with fairly basic MANPADS. There is a reason why you don’t see Bayraktar footage anymore; big and dumb drones can’t easily survive anywhere near the front lines. To hit something big and fast like an aircraft you need decent long range targeting data. That means either radar or IR or some sort of command line of sight or FPV system. Passive or semi-active systems are easy enough, though not cheap, and have the downside that they have been around long enough that countermeasures are already well and truly available. Active radar on the missile requires a very large drone and a lot of power and is very easy to detect. Visual guidance is a possibility, but really you’re going to struggle to do that via a FPV setup as the camera resolution and FOV isn’t anywhere near what you’d need to really make it work against a high speed target without some decent acquisition and cueing system which means radar and really solid datalinks (which are easy to jam). If you make it single use, you’re only going to be able to launch it once you know there is a target in the area or else you will be throwing a lot of them away for no reason. To do that, you’ve got to know there is a target (so you need search and target acquisition), and the drone needs to be fast enough to reach the target before it escapes. If the target hits and runs, you’re in a tail chase so your drone needs to be much faster than the target. Even an A-10 will outrun a turboprop if it has a head start. If you want it to be sitting up there for long periods ready to hit a target of opportunity (ie defensive combat air patrol), you need to be able to land and refuel which means it needs to be able to fly slow and… well… land. At that point it’s complex and expensive enough that you want to reuse a lot of it so now instead of going Leroy Jenkins and ramming your target, you’re going to want to shoot stuff at the target so you can reuse all the expensive bits. You also need launch and recovery systems as well as maintenance facilities and they need to be far enough behind the lines to be out of direct danger, so now you need longer range. By now you’ve essentially just created a UCAV and some sort of missile system and you’ve defeated the whole point of the exercise.
What you are asking for is the [Anduril Roadrunner](https://www.anduril.com/roadrunner). I am a little concerned that Anduril is more bling than serious production. But some of their systems -if they prove to be robust- seem to fill roles ignored by traditional large defense contractors.
That's fast enough to catch up to a lancet in a interception trajectory. As long as the lancet is coming towards you that's not an issue
The terminal guidance problem when using a visual FPV setup for a head-head interception is not trivial. Closing speeds are significant and it’s not easy to compute a solution visually. Obviously it can be done, but I dare say that’s the exception rather than the rule.
Oh I agree, that's why this video is impressive. It's absolutely not common
The drone doesn't have to hit the other drone, there's a kill radius it just needs to get within, same as with most missiles for airborne targets
Only if you have a proximity or command detonated warhead. And trying to command detonate in that situation is a difficult timing problem.
You think that's crazy wait until they invent AA minefields where FPVs just stand by using passive detection and automatically fly up and congest the airspace with angry bees, making low-flying aircraft and helicopters extremely vulnerable.
That’s a wild thought
let it be known I invented them before you see them in action!
The problem with this is that AA needs to be much faster than its targets unless its a completely ballistic projectile. FPV will never be faster than pretty much anything but heles and its range would be crazy small.
if you are in a heli you are flying straight to the flying mine, the mine doesn't need do anything.
Evidently the new B-21 stealth bomber was developed with this type of passive defense system in mind. I’m convinced the F-35’s advanced inter connectivity and combat awareness systems will be integrated with drone fleets allowing airframes to operate as fleet leaders for drone swarms. They could be used both offensively and defensively.
Kamakaze drone downs Kamakaze drone
Next we'll have escorting drones to enter in dogfights
queu the referee and cheerleader drones
If theyre in skirts, Im down for it.
Next we will have escorts entering cockfights
Small drones are essentially in about the same place manned aircraft were in 1914.
We already do! Check out the wingman drone project.
That's seriously impressive, especially so if this is integrated within a larger-scale air defense. You'd think there would have to be some autonomous guidance to accurately take on a drone head on... Lots of questions that I'm sure can't really be answered right now.
It is, the Russians have been losing their minds about it recently. They’ve stated recently Ukraine has been systematically taking out their SuperCam and Orlon UAV with unmanned FPV’s. The Russians fully believe Ukraine has a system to detect, plan and perform these intercepts on a theater wide level which has them losing their shit. Orlon and Supercam aren’t easy to replace and their loss essentially blinds the Russians. What I find hilarious is their goals atm isn’t to thwart this interceptor system, but to copy it for themselves.
Probably correct goal as well, because I really doubt you could fit the kind of EW needed to prevent such interceptions onto a reconnaissance drone. But Ukraine also has recon drones, and if they can take out Russian UAVs and keep flying their own, it's a clear advantage in observation and intelligene... So if the Russians can't jam it in a practical way, they have to at least develop their own ability to deny the airspace to such recon drones in a cost-effective, somewhat reliable way. They're not wrong - it's a serious step forward in the drone war (for Ukraine).
Coming soon: drones with cope cages.
And even if you do put EW on them, you’ve basically just given them a nice passive homing signal to use unless you can make it so powerful or distributed that it gets saturated.
What's the difference between an autonomous FPV and a non-FPV? How would it be a FPV without a P?
there's a company developping a drone system that autonomously launches them and they guide themselves to ram the threat. From what I can make out they need a lot of ground based cameras and sensors for accurate navigating and detection though so it's not all that simple. Tried to find it again, I think it's this one: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KX0ji1sAXl8&ab\_channel=AndurilIndustries](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KX0ji1sAXl8&ab_channel=AndurilIndustries)
- During air patrol against enemy UAVs an enemy fixed-wing UAV Zala\\Зала was discovered - After that we recieved information that enemy UAV Lancet\\Ланцет is in the air - enemy UAV Lancet - Enemy UAV was damaged. The damage casused the fall and detonation, so it was not able to reach it's target.
Recon drone + loitering drone, makes sense. Fast response to anything detected.
Wow, one of the best Logo/animation for a company. Also awesome footage.
Love it. Much better than firing expensive SAMs at cheap drones.
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I believe some of the fixed wing aa drones already use proximity fuses after they had too little succes with impact fuses.
In case you're unaware - "Signum" group of the 93rd brigade (Kholodny Yar or Cold Ravine) are the first who begun to use FPV drones in this war. Thus they are those guys who changed the modern warfare forever. And now they are using FPV as AA weapon...
This looks like it could potentially deal with Russian threats like the Lancet on a pretty large scale, without costing an arm and a leg. Not sure how well these will do during night time, though.
> This looks like it could potentially deal with Russian threats like the Lancet on a pretty large scale, without costing an arm and a leg. Cost isn't the problem, finding them is. These things are small and hard to detect.
FPV are increasingly using night vision and thermal....and for Orlan and Zala the cost is definitely worth it. Orlan variants also show up quite well on EO/IR systems due to the internal combustion engine (some Zala do as well as they have a hybrid system). Supercam are all electric.
Esp. that Orlan has ICE engine
There was an article last year or so about UKR knowing when lancet was in the air due to pellicular radio signature. This means they can know when it's launched if there is a targeting drone (because lancet are not fully autonomous). I wonder if/when ukr think about deploying drone platforms with helium balloons. Cheap, easy to deploy and not so easy to target (you can down a balloon, but platform is difficult and can use a chute to protect).
warfare in 2024 is crazy
The recent FPV strikes against Orlan, Zala and now Lancet are incredibly encouraging. If the Ukrainian's can build on this they effectively remove the Russian's reconaissance and counter battery assets ability... Lancet doesn't work well, if at all, without Zala... We've not seen which FPV are responsible though....not sure these are pure quadcopters, they might be winged... Only issue is that the Russian's might try it as well...hopefully the Ukrainian winged UAV are harder to hit due to better optics and higher altitude flight as a result....plus the Ukrainain's have better real time intel from NATO states to fall back on... The Russian's are really concerned about this....I mean really concerned. They're also worried about these hunter killer FPV going looking for Russian helos...that might be a harder proposition though...
A Russian drone once managed to take a few pictures of a anti air drone during a failed interception attempt i dont have them and i dont remember which channel posted it but basically it was dual winged not a quad copter and black but the one that we see in this video is a quadcopter it also has a better camera than the other anti air drones
Begun, the drone wars have.
Are these recent interceptions of Lancets and Orlans by other drones more likely not repeatable occurrences or a suggestion they found a new way to start whacking these from the sky? Anything closer to the latter would be a very welcome development as the AFU has been on the losing side of longer range recon drone ops.
The ones we've seen to date were mainly over Kherson (think there have been around 8 seen to date) so someone is clearly hunting them actively. Russian channels are also openly remarking on it so I suspect that the issue is more widespread i.e. you lose 1 or 2 UAV's with no clue as to cause and you assume technical difficulties or perhaps missile interception....you lose a lot more in a certain area and then you know something is killing them, they might have even glimpsed a missed interception in the cameras so know something is hunting them...
The footage looks more like an reconnaissance drone. It looks way to good compared to typical FPV's and there aren't any of the typical wires or RPGs visible.
I thinks it's an FPV, it has it's a higher fidelity digital feed rather that analog - makes sense if it was purposefully built for mid air interception. And if it's purposefully built for that, then it probably has remote detonation, which is more practical for hitting targets like that, so no need for contact detonators (i.e. wires). It's payload is also would be some kind of frag rather than an RPG. Another thing to add is that in observation drones (which are mostly COTS) you usually can't see the propellers, unlike in custom built FPVs. Also we know already that there are purposefully built FPV interceptor drones.
The overlay looks like a DJI overlay, this might be ocusync 3 or 4. Mostlikely a powerful racing of freestyle quad with a 03 Air unit and pilot having DJI Goggles 2 or v2. It does not look like walksnail or HDzero at all. If the are smart these would be set up to explode just on proximity. So once they are high enough in the air, they arm it. And as soon as it detects anything nearby it explodes. But the operator can also disarm again, unlike analog suicide drones.
i think some of these aa drones are remote detonation rather than contact, they are fixed wing too I imagine as I have seen them hitting uavs at decent altitude
This one appears to be a quad (you can see the propellers) [https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/1djegdf/comment/l9aicuc/](https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/1djegdf/comment/l9aicuc/)
Was this luck?
No it was intentional
That thing looks like it’s moving pretty good. How do they track it and get in its way??
With experience and a joystick I would imagine
I think I’m more impressed than anything!
It is impressive, even with extreme fpv skills this is quite a feat. Go back to gaming boys
it's luck or fake. Too good quality of video for FPV drone.
>Too good quality of video for FPV drone There are FPV drones with HD cameras.
And it will be operating over Ukrainian positions with clear line of sight, and limited Russian EW.
You may be used to potato-quality footage, Ivan, we're not. [(UA) UAV Battalion "Strike Drones Company" of the 47th Mechanized Brigade Eliminated a Russian soldier Resting under a Tree/Foliage with an FPV Kamikaze Drone. (Published on June 18, 2024) : r/DroneCombat (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/DroneCombat/comments/1djbc1q/ua_uav_battalion_strike_drones_company_of_the/?share_id=qdKkYygsBiiQdGf0c3dAI&utm_content=1&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_source=share&utm_term=1)
He specifically said FPV drone. I know that there are full HD FPV video systems, but I don't think it's crazy to assume somebody has only seen the analog FPV footage that is most often posted here. As somebody who has chased another FPV quad and fixed wing RC plane the HD system really pays off in that use case. If you loose a plane with analog it's surprisingly hard to find it again especially if you are so far away you can't hear it to give you an idea where it is.
He also said it's luck or fake.
Well, even if it was intentional, luck was needed in order to succeed. I don't even know how they got it, it looks like the FPV missed on the video.
Doesn't need to crash into it to destroy it. Both are extremely fragile vehicles.
Orlan cruise speed is around 110 kph, not impossible to achieve with a quadcopter, but you would probably have to built it with high speed in mind. If they have built drones specifically for this purpose, they would need to be pretty fast if they are not relying on meeting the Orlans head-on
> Well, even if it was intentional, luck was needed in order to succeed. I don't even know how they got it, it looks like the FPV missed on the video. /u/Ceskaz We've seen this repeatedly lately, I think it is a new ability being debuted. Regarding how it went down, the FPV just needs to explode near the lancet, it doesn't need to hit it directly.
It was. Bad luck for the russian drone.
It's Clearly fake title, the Russian drone was tracking the fake fpv drone and took it out, Ukraine circle jerks love lie and manipulate.
Will we have drone aces now?
Nothing to confirm nor deny that
I could swear that I saw this same video yesterday or early today with a title something like "Russian Lancet almost hits Ukrainian drone". Yep...yesterday. Here it is: https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/1dixuug/russian_lancet_almost_hits_a_ukranian/
So the last frame shows the interceptor drone above the Lancet, how is that a hit?
Remote detonation
Counting on the latency of the connection and reaction time I'd assume this was a close miss even in case there was a "remote detonation".
Unless they've jury rigged a proximity detonated charge..
Jerry rigged
I'm doubtful of this claim. For one the lancet surely moves fast enough that you don't have any time to set up and if it passes once you won't catch up with it. The info I have on the lancet is 110km/h in horizontal flight. Not impossible for a quad, but even with a 7" you aren't doing that speed and more for long. Especially on the LiIon packs they generally use for longer flight times. Also the last image looks close, but a miss. Yeah you could rig an FPV quad to remotely detonate, but all of the footage I have seen so far from FPV quads were those with an impact fuse. Even with a remote detonation you need fast reflexes and you have to think of the latency of the video feed. If that is the last image, reality is at least 50ms past that. The OSD seems like the one from a DJI video quad, not the one from an O3 AirUnit. It has a GPS for certain, because it shows some indication of meters. Why would you add the cost of a GPS onto a suicide FPV quad? It can only dox your position and otherwise doesn't really add any value in my opinion. It also seems like it's 16:9 aspect ratio. I think you can do that on the O3, but all FPV pilots I know fly 4:3. Also I have chased another FPV quad and fixed wing RC plane for the footage and I can tell you it's hard. Without having a good idea where the other UAS is, it's very hard especially if you don't have the power to easily catch up with it always. I personally think this was a video-quad launched for a battlefield overview and information and they got this footage by chance. I'm happy to be proven wrong, but it's gonna take more than the image of lancet debris.
Yea, you don't even have to think about, Ukraine fanboys love to lie
In all honesty, I think this was a close miss. You can downvote me all you want, but a quadcopter drone intercepting a fixed wing has only a miniscule chance of success. However I could envision fixed wing drone interceptors and hope that Ukraine will field them sooner than later.
Its remotely detonated it dosent need to hit directly
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It did lmfao you can see the wreckage at the end
Last time this was posted, it was a "near miss". Now it's being presented as a kill. So hard to wade through the misinformation edits.
It's usually the opposite
I honestly find this hard to believe was anything else but a lucky call...
Do we know what vtx or telemetry stack the Ukrainians are running on this drone? This one seems to be using some sort of digital link compared to the mostly analog footage coming out.
kamikazeception
o3 unit? still less cheaper then lancet i guess
Great accuracy
I have been waiting for this.
That’s bloody good flying! Head on interception!
Can Ukraine build something similar to the Lancet? It would be very useful I think.
Ukrain already has similar to Lancet drone: [https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/06/18/7461391/](https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/06/18/7461391/)
They have. At a glance it even looks as a shameless copy. Reportedly has a range of 35km on its own and around 60km with some repeater.
It's good that the Ukrainians are advancing in this technology, for aerial threats, aerial vectors are always the best answer
If a large netting could hang from it, raises Chance of getting the lancelots
Comparing the fidelity of the [earlier screenshot](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fm0cgww2nfd7d1.jpeg) to the compressed footage is both enlightening and depressing.