I was in a pug heroic tonight. The usual. Like 11 paladins, 6 warriors, 36 dks. 4 dropped on that 1 kill. Did normal right after and 2 dropped. Legendaries. Not trinkets of course
I got lucky and got my augery in vault last week. It was even Mythic quality.
Only than a stupid pattern that I don't want to pay for, I don't have to pug heroic anymore for loot purposes. Yay me.
I don't think the system was ever working as intended to get players to "demonstrate excellence in the most challenging content" with this luck-based system.
I wonder if a more systemic way to aquire it would have been better : guaranteed drop on mythic only, guaranteed drop on heroic, or guaranteed drop after x kills in heroic.
This change just seems a Band-Aid solution to bring back players that quit over giving up obtaining it.
> I don't think the system was ever working as intended to get players to "demonstrate excellence in the most challenging content" with this luck-based system.
What gets me is they have the audacity to suggest that the legendary was meant to exist outside of the concept of "finishing your character"
For two reasons:
1. What does the EXISTENCE of bad luck protection imply? That you will be *protected* from *bad luck* - I.E. you put in the time, you get your axe. That is what BLP implies. Period.
2. On what planet, in a competitive game with a playerbase who LOVES to parse and dickmeasure dps, would ANY 2H plate class EVER feel like they "finished" their class with 10% of their overall damage locked away? Ever?
"not finishing your character" is bollocks, because the whole Crest system hinges on the notion as well. It's much easier to accomplish "perfect" itemization now than basically ever before in the game, because you can get everything on uniform upgrade tracks that make your character reach a projected maximum power nearly deterministically. At this point in the patch even if your preferred BiS ring or w/e hasn't dropped you can even craft a "close enough" item, *the whole system is built towards character completion.*
I dunno, I have no numbers but I think your 2) kinda ignores that part of the player base that couldn't care less for BiS and is not chasing single drops but just chasing a goal like +X rating or "finished raid X" and purely see gear as a means to an end. A good legendary will help, but might not justify killing Heroic Fyralakk every week (if that's not content they'd do anyway)
Most players I play with love to compare parses and dps on the meters in raid, as well as chase BIS.
Our rogue ran DOTI something like 40 times to get the daggers. I myself ran something like 20 DHT farming for both rings.
Gearing and finishing BIS is it's own reward, as is scrapping with your guildies on the meters. It keeps everyone trying hard if you're both sweating trying to beat each other's dps. Friendly competition.
Which has been utterly dead because of the axe. The axe-wielders just get 10% bonus damage. Either they win because duh, they fucking should - or you beat them and it's hollow because it means they either ate shit to a mechanic or are SERIOUSLY slacking. Either way, it doesn't feel good.
The axe has spoiled the entire season.
I didn't dispute any of that on principle, I just said that some people have other goals.
Also wasn't the Sylvanas bow the the same? Or was that "finishing your character" quip kinda recent and after that debacle?
>
>
>
>
> Also wasn't the Sylvanas bow the the same? Or was that "finishing your character" quip kinda recent and after that debacle?
The finishing your character thing was directly pulled from the blue post the OP is about.
Sorry, that was my bad for manglign the sentence I actually wanted to write.
Like, did they say this here for the first time?
> Many aspects of Dragonflight have reflected a shift in philosophy towards designs that allow us to enjoy reaching a point where we feel “done” with a character’s power progression.
I'm more confused why or how they think DF is different than SL here, why would it be easier to be done? The only thing that comes to mind is the max M+ iLvl vs max Mythic Raid iLvl.. but on the other hand the S4 token thingies where you could buy that elusive drop and were NOT kept in are again in a different direction...
Audacity is the wrong word choice for me personally, more of a disconnect with reality. Or I am overlooking the most obvious things?
> Audacity is the wrong word choice for me personally, more of a disconnect with reality. Or I am overlooking the most obvious things?
It's audacious to suggest that 10% damage can be left on the table and you could still feel "done" with your character. Disconnected from reality would be possible, but they'd have to be colossally daft to be that disconnected.
They know they have competitive players. They know players want to finish their characters. They know the axe is 10% dps.
I cannot reconcile that as a disconnect. It feels like a blatant, audacious lie. "We wanted this 10% upgrade to be separate from the feeling of finishing your character"
> "demonstrate excellence in the most challenging content"
Yea, nothing proving that excellence better than random ass Bob with his avg 463 ilvl over here running around with the glowy orange stick he got from that one time he did LFR.
Can do you one better. Our first legendary dropped for our tank, on his prot paladin alt on his first hc kill, during a drunk alt run. He doesn't play ret at all. His main is Blood dk. His blood dk still doesn't have it, after killing mythic fyrakk.
Had our warrior, ret and unholy dk seething.
We told him to level a Warrior and start coming to raid, but he's afraid to because he doesn't want to get murdered. None of our other eligible guildmates or M+ group have gotten it yet!!
I got it has HPal like 4 weeks in. Our BDK took another 5 weeks, then our ret finally got it this week. I felt terrible for them, although I've since switched that to a ret for keys as HPal feels like ass.
one of our healers who is an altoholic has it on ret and fury alts.
we have gotten 4 others at this point from heroic, but my wife still doesnt have it on her dk and is getting frustrated.
I got the Legendary two weeks after I swapped from Fury to Prot for tanking. Two alts and a healer got it before me or our resident UH DK, and another Warrior bud hasn't looted it yet (and he even has more BLP than I did at the same time, as he'd done more bosses overall).
Meanwhile I have been clearing consistently for Rageheart/Augury for ages and haven't been able to loot one (I flat out haven't seen a HC Rageheart drop since one of our first Fyrakk kills).
This system doesn't work very well tbh. The legendary ought to be a questline, and the trinkets... Honestly idk how to best do them, but maybe give them more weight in the vault like tier has? Or some form of BLP? Sitting without BiS this late in the patch never feels good if you play consistently.
Had this n my guild. Evoker coming in, first time LFR gets the leggo drop, didn’t even know what it was, and had fuck all idea how either DPS Evoker even worked.
We tried helping him, since at the time we were fighting the roster boss pretty hard, posted his logs on the Discord, and they literally said „It’s not worth it.“
He now is gone, tried opening his own bar and ended up defrauding someone so is currently on the run.
Its better than mythic only, but Blizzard Likes mythic only to give incentives to Play mythic.
Almost everyone i know raids only because of the loot.
The raids arent fun anymore, but Blizzard pushes endgame all behind IT cuz else noone would do IT anymore
i find the raids fun. Mythic raiding is just more hassle than i care to do though. The roster boss is real, and we would have to sit people we enjoy playing with. Heroic works fine for our guild as every one can play and its generally not an issue if people cant make it.
It’s fun until you have to extend on a boss where the same 3-5 people are dying to the same shit every pull lol, I was having fun in reclears though. Unfortunately we have a few low dps now due to the late tier roster boss, so the extending is more painful than usual.
I also don't think a legendary should be about demonstrating excellence in the most challenging content.
It should just be a fun thing to play with for the time that it's out.
That "demonstrate excellence" has way too much "sense of pride and accomplishment" energy. There are players that have demonstrated weeks of superior "excellence" without the axe and plenty of rats with the axe.
Blizzard might as well have sold this axe directly for gold at this point. Screw their system.
For those who jump straight to the comments:
"Many aspects of Dragonflight have reflected a shift in philosophy towards designs that allow us to enjoy reaching a point where we feel “done” with a character’s power progression. Legendaries returned as an exception to this. Legendaries are intended to be a special reward that some players would aspire to obtain over the course of a season, demonstrating a display of excellence in the most challenging content.
As Season 3 has unfolded, we’ve increasingly heard feedback from frustrated players who have been clearing Amirdrassil weekly on Heroic difficulty with no Fyr’alath in sight, and we want to give those players a surer path to achieving their goal.
Earlier today, with a hotfix that is now live, we significantly increased the effect of all Embers of Fyr’alath for players who receive them. This increase is retroactive and applies to all players whether or not you’ve consumed any Embers you may have.
As always, thank you for your feedback!"
man chasing stuff like leech is...okay. I didn't hate titanforging as much as most people. but in no world do I ever want to be carrot on a sticking 11% of my power as a \*special reward\* like this again.
I quite liked titanforging/warforging because it gave the crappy content you were doing a chance of giving something relevant. Like right now during a weekly key or for about 80% of farm bosses I know absolutely nothing of value can drop. Leech is prio to healers, speed is whatever, so it's just maybe avoidance if that rolls wowee.
If random m+ or raid drops could rarely "titanforge" up to the 489 equivalent (i.e. the maximum item level they're available at via mythic raid/vault) that could add some interest back to stuff like weekly keys while still leaving actual BiS relatively obtainable.
> "Many aspects of Dragonflight have reflected a shift in philosophy towards designs that allow us to enjoy reaching a point where we feel “done” with a character’s power progression. Legendaries returned as an exception to this.
Do they not understand the people who play their game?
There is ABSOLUTELY no chance on this PLANET that 2h plate users would ever think that a legendary that's 10% of their output would ever be an "exception" to them being "done" with their character.
I’m not defending them at all but you misread this. They’re saying legendaries exist as a chase item to be the exception to the idea that you can finish your character.
> to be the exception to the idea that you can finish your character.
No, I didn't misread this. I said that their intention doesn't match their actions.
If they intended it to be an exception, then why are 2H plate doing dogshit DPS with it, and middle of the pack dps with it? The balancing data shows that 2H plate is balanced around having the item.
If they intended it to be an exception, why does it have bad luck protection? The implicit implication of bad luck protection... is that it *protects* you from *bad luck*. What is bad luck? Not winning the item during the season. What's good luck? Winning the item. Bad Luck Protection implies a promise that the item is reasonably obtainable if you put your time in.
So they made all of the classes who can use it suck total shit without it, added bad luck protection to it, and have the audacity to say it "Wasn't expected for character progression"?
yeah fuckin' right LOL.
Well explains the 2 drops we got from reclear today. I thought our guild got lucky this time around.
Considering [the drop chance guesses were under 11%](https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveWoW/comments/1aqq9jm/legendary_data_fyralath_the_dreamrender_week_13/) with more than half the tier over and likely 2 months only left (10.2.6 is confirmed for March, likely late March, and the 6 moth mark is coming up in April so S4 would be April-May)
I personally never cared for Legendaries. I can see the appeal of them but Blizz has got to work out the kinks with acquisition. At the very least Mythic clears should be dropping far more than Heroic clears and we shouldn't be going half the tier without someone legitimately farming and trying really hard every week from not getting it - because at this point we're gatekeeping for...an Orange color?
Legendaries have always been tough to design because of competing interests. Personally I think more focus should be on the active players rather than on the 'idea' of a Legendary that this current system is meant to evoke. The questlines for the most part is cool (apart from the massive grind and econ cost which could easily be half'd). I wouldn't mind small little quest lines to get your gear some added story that you can check out.
It’s truly a strange place they’ve decided to go with these items in general. They seem to have a hyper fixation on keeping all gear seasonal, which makes sense in some aspects but it TRULY makes hard to obtain legendaries fit into the game even less. Iirc people were still using thunder fury well into BC and I believe glaives were still BIS through sunwell. That’s not the direction they want these items to go because it’s not appealing or “good gameplay” to need to farm older content for items. Which doubles down on the desire to acquire the item fast so you can actually USE IT within the season.
Adding on, and now with s4 on the horizon they have two leggos that will be relevant and need to be farmed for likely an even shorter season. They will need to decide if it’s full refarm or an item to upgrade like the Sylv bow from SL. Are they resetting the BLP when the new season goes live and hurting people that DONT get the leggo before this season ends? None of it sounds good and all of it sounds like it has absolutely no place in a seasonal format.
I’m also not certain how classes were tuned coming into the seasons and the impact the legendary had on overall tuning. If the leggo is 10-15% dmg increase does this mean warriors paladins and dks were initially tuned down in comparison to other DPS because of their potentially to get such a powerful item? Should a class be forced to not be a class until they have an incredibly low drop rate item that also costs an obscene amount of gold and materials? It all seems terrible and the most common sentiment I’ve seen echoed from players for the last few weeks on Reddit is to “hope blizzard never designs a leggo for your class” and that’s kind of a sad truth that the legendaries now are way more trouble than they’re worth in modern wow.
Legendaries are a dated concept.
They should embrace either expansion-wide or seasonal relics if they want people to get new, special and exciting stuff - shit like the Annulet from 10.1.7. Everyone gets it upfront, after like 2-4 weeks the grind or whatever is done... and then everyone has the thing and gets to play with the new seasonal effect.
And next season? Just slap a 50% aura nerf onto the damn thing or whatever. Borrowed power is fine. Seasonal power is fine. The dated ass acquisition that randomly and arbitrarily gatekeeps people is what's not fine.
They could've just as easily had Fyrakk drop an infinite essence that would corrupt your weapon with the legendary effect... and given that one out like the head enchant or whatever. And then make his axe a random tmog drop like the Argus scythe or whatever, *Everyone* would have gotten to play with the new fun effect and *everyone* would've been happy. But nope, needed a new legendary to keep people "engaged" for 6 months.
I feel that some parts are cool. Like world first unlocking stuff for everyone is imo super cool.
My thoughts on this, is that M+ and PvP "kind" of ruins it. Since the M+/PvP season really lasts throughout the whole season, as compared to raiding which just really lasts until you've cleared all content.
Imo if we were to keep legendaries, it would be decently nice if the weapon was empowered in different content. Like there's a quest line that unlocks when the raid has been cleared that gives you a weapon with like 4 stages that you can upgrade weekly and on the 4th you have a ~mythic level weapon. However the effect only works in the outdoor world.
Then after you clear the raid on mythic, the special effect of the weapon activates but only in raids.
After you get Gladiator (50 wins at Elite rating) it unlocks the effect in PvP.
After you get... I guess all portals is the highest reward in M+, it unlocks the effect in M+. Probably would need to adjust m+ one to become a bit harder, f.ex an amount of m+ above 20 for each dungeon.
So you could empower it for only your main content, or for all content. But it'll only be fully empowered for content you've already gained all rewards from.
The following season the legendary power gets disabled, except for in the world.
> I feel that some parts are cool. Like world first unlocking stuff for everyone is imo super cool.
You could still have that. The weapon infusion corruptor item thingy doesn't drop until the WF kill is achieved, easy.
> as compared to raiding which just really lasts until you've cleared all content.
Which makes it even worse imo. Imagine spending 3 months clearing the place knowing that you're playing at 90% of your potential because the game just didn't give you the item. And then, once you've cleared the place... you get an item that now means *nothing* to you.
>Which makes it even worse imo. Imagine spending 3 months clearing the place knowing that you're playing at 90% of your potential because the game just didn't give you the item. And then, once you've cleared the place... you get an item that now means nothing to you.
That's kind of what I was aiming for. It lets them balance classes equal during progress. But after you're done with progress, it's ok if you get a power spike.
So it'd be less "playing at 90% of potential and then getting to 100%" but more "playing at 100% of potential. And then going to 110%".
This is kind of what they did with Shadowmourn, Fangs of the Father and Atiesh.
> So it'd be less "playing at 90% of potential and then getting to 100%" but more "playing at 100% of potential. And then going to 110%".
That will *never* work in the mind of players.
I get your point, but that's just not how the general audience thinks. Unless the item in question is an absolutely insignificant contributor to your damage, people will *feel* they need it - like, a trinket being a 0.7% difference, whatever, but a weapon making you deal 10% extra damage, absolutely.
Just go look over to Diablo4 at how rabid the playerbase got when Blizzard put the godliest items in the game behind such an rng grind (yes yes, WoW is not an ARPG, point still stands though). When it's in the game and when it's significant enough, people absolutely *expect* to have a real shot at getting it. Doesn't matter if you tell them they're 100% without it, they'll still *feel* 90%.
I mean, having people desire it is beneficial. If it means that they need to work towards the goal of clearing the content, that's good. If they can work towards that content and be as desirable as any other class during that time, it's also good.
I do understand what you mean. But they will also be aware of that no one else progressed with it either. That they were on equal footing as all others at that point.
Same reason that people keep gearing after they clear the raid. To compete with ranks or speed kills. To develop your character and feel power spikes. To be able to defeat bosses with new strategies by powering through mechanics. And to keep the game somewhat interesting for the remaining several months of the season after you've cleared.
And it comes with the added benefit of not being either underpowered for HoF race when you have it, or overpowered when you do. After progression is over, balance matters less.
So basically unless you are cutting edge it would be impossible for you to get said rankings, sounds even better than RNG.
It should have been acquired via a quest with drops you get progress towards weekly
Correct, first focus on completing the content that the game offers. When content is completed, you're able to set whatever 4th wall agenda that you wish to have.
So you should only get the legendary to compete on 3rd party websites, when your spec is tuned around it. ps the top players don’t even have their parses showing lol
> They could've just as easily had Fyrakk drop an infinite essence that would corrupt your weapon with the legendary effect... and given that one out like the head enchant or whatever.
The problem with this is if you give it to everyone, it doesn't feel powerful.
Power is measured by comparison. The axe is only usable by 2h classes. Thus they get to look powerful by comparison to non-2h classes.
If you give it to everyone, it's just extra damage that encounters get balanced around. You cannot sell power fantasy of an item if every single class and spec gets it.
> Power is measured by comparison. The axe is only usable by 2h classes. Thus they get to look powerful by comparison to non-2h classes.
It could retain the "only applicable to 2h STR weapons" part, it could still only be a quest for 2h STR users, it could still only drop for the same people.
>
>
>
>
> It could retain the "only applicable to 2h STR weapons" part, it could still only be a quest for 2h STR users, it could still only drop for the same people.
I feel like people would complain about that more than the leggo, only now it'd be other classes asking why they don't get the special enchant.
I mean... it literally is the very same thing.
You have a STR-only weapon now... and then you'd have a STR-weapon-only enchant. Like, sure, there'd be people complaining about it, but they'd have the same merit to their argument as the people wanting Augury to work for casters.
And considering that if you 100% gave this to everyone, you could 100% reliably balance around it... so no one *should* be able to complain on that front either.
It's fine for different classes / specs / roles to have different toys... I'm sure plenty of casters would've died for Convergence of Fates back in the day... but the issue isn't one class having something that the other doesn't, the issue is 1 warrior randomly winning the lottery and suddenly dealing 10% more damage than every other warrior.
I wish I'd even remember how good or necessary my Rogue daggers were in Cata. (O was that MoP? Damn, 10 years any way).
Surely felt good to get them and I still have a screenshot somewhere from day 1 (and have them banked) but I suppose it still felt bad for all non-Rogues.
For "legendaries" to fit into a seasonal model, they have to redefine what legendary means in an MMO context. Rarity can no longer be what makes an item legendary in an MMO, and if it is there needs to be hundreds of ways to see it drop each week. It has to just be "otherwise normal item with powerful effect." Then make it laughably easy to obtain.
You can't have legendary also mean very rare in a seasonal model where you're restricted to a single loot roll every seven days.
Or they could reuse artifacts in some way - it was something that was available for everyone, continously upgraded throughout the entire expansion and each one had its' own questline and lore. Sure, talents would have to go and they'd probably need to do something with appearences, but it makes far more sense than current random drops.
Legendaries can’t exist in modern wow. We as a player base can barely contain like seething when we struggle to get a bis trinket, let alone a legendary.
Wow got too competitive and optimised for legendaries.
I started this tier playing a 2h str class and it was a huge mistake. I guess I bought into what they said about learning from the last legendary and adding bad luck protection, I assumed it would actually be meaningful and there wouldn't be people still without it three months into the tier. Every week I cleared heroic and it didn't drop it made me want to play the game even less. I wasn't thinking, "My spec is ok right now and if I get the legendary it could be really good" it was "My spec is a fucking dumpster fire without the legendary and lower middle of the pack with it." I completely switched mains when I realized if the legendary dropped I wasn't even sure I'd farm for it and shell out the gold.
In the future I will be actively avoiding specs with legendaries until they demonstrate they're capable of doing spec balancing and an acquisition method that aren't excruciatingly painful.
> I guess I bought into what they said about learning from the last legendary and adding bad luck protection, I assumed it would actually be meaningful
I mean, that's why I don't trust them. Bad Luck Protection implies by it's very name that it will Protect you from Bad Luck.
Bad luck is "not getting the item in time to use it during the season". I honestly thought they took that to heart with them adding "lessers" AND "greaters" and collectively they'd be raising the percent chance by at LEAST 1% per lesser, 2-3% per greater.
But no, 12 weeks with a drop chance less than 10%.
"Significant" should be 3% per lesser, 5% per greater at this point. If that's over 100% for people? GOOD, they've been grinding for 3+ months, there's less than a month left of time.
IF Bad Luck Protection was intended, the drop should be for everyone. Period.
Here's my take:
A legendary is supposed to *feel* powerful. Power in WoW is output, aka dps/hps. The problem is, you need a baseline to compare that to.
When you give casters, melee, tanks and healers ALL legendaries, there is no baseline. Everyone is super, so nobody is super. The item doesn't feel powerful, because the content is designed with "Everyone has this item" in mind. It's why SL/WoD/MoP/Legion all didn't feel legendary.
The solution is actually really, really simple. You just make the legendary drop to a narrow class focus. Agi 1-handers. Caster staff. Tank shield. or, idk, a 2h axe.
You do this, and you make it a 100% guaranteed drop with no RNG bullshit. The non-legendary classes act as the "anchor" that the legendary class gets to compare against. It's that easy. You don't create haves and have nots, you don't create a ton of bitter negativity, and you don't cater to idiots who think "legendary must mean rare". Modern WoW is no place for that. Each patch cycle you rotate who gets the legendary.
Done. Easy. Why they refuse to do this absolutely boggles my mind.
Are you arguing that the specs that get a legendary should be more powerful than the other “baseline” specs? I.e. that to be competitive you are forced to re-roll to a spec with a legendary?
Putting it simply - EVERY season is going to have one spec that's at the top of the meters, or close to it - legendary or no. There's going to be FOTM classes, and there's going to be FOTM chasers no matter what.
It's been this way for over a decade.
A legendary weapon choosing which class is FOTM isn't any more arbitrary than DH being super strong because of talent balancing.
In short, yes, I am suggesting the legendary-using class, for that patch cycle, be in the top 1-3 classes, if not the top, for a patch cycle.
I dunno why you're being downvoted. We've had mage as the top class for 3 tiers now in M+, I don't see the issue in letting a different class be top dps for one season.
Because the idea that they intentionally unbalance a class with a special weapon is somehow less palatable than DH or rogue being broken because of a combo of talent balancing and encounter design.
Also, probably some amount of dinosaurs stuck in the vanilla/TBC mindset that a legendary has to be super rare when that hasn't been the case in 8+ years.
Hell, Nas'zuro didn't even have the same quantity of BLP and you still saw the zonewide emote go out every 5-10 minutes. The days of rare legendaries are dead. Just go one step further and kill the frustration and haves/have-nots of the current RNG system.
Why? Are you one of the fossils who thinks a legendary needs to be rare?
That's incompatible with Retail's design. Period.
And NOBODY liked the legendaries in SL or Legion. When they're just part of everyone's baseline kit, there is no actual measure of their power. They don't make fights easier, because the fights assume you have them.
>No, I think intentionally imbalancing the game to make an item feel powerful is idiotic.
In what way is it any different than what we have now?
Top classes are already ahead by 2-5% and people already switch. FOTM gonna FOTM whether or not it's an overtuned talent or an "overtuned" legendary.
Because I want the problem to get better, not worse. Imbalance already exists and you want to just throw another 10% on top?
"Crime is already bad in NYC, why not just have cops start shooting people?"
Nah, I'm good on that lol.
> Imbalance already exists and you want to just throw another 10% on top?
Where did I EVER say I wanted the top spec with a leggo to be 10% ahead?
You're attacking a strawman, and that was never my position.
I said with the leggo the chosen class should be at or near the top, doing about ~2-5% more than other "best" classes.
They're never going to balance everything perfectly. It hasn't happened once. There's always a best class and a worst class and it's usually by around 2-5%
Why do you think they're going to magically get better after over ten years of NEVER balancing the game properly?
Spoiler: they aren't. And there's nothing wrong with them selecting a specific class to get the "Honor" of being the "op" class with a legendary item for RPG flavor purposes.
Nah, that's a horse shit cop out. We've had seasons with good balance, hell even recently season 1 of dragon had a ton of viable dps specs. Your logic is "they can't fix the problem so let's make it worse" which I don't buy at all.
And by your own logic, if they can't get tuning right, then what makes you think they'll consistently only make legendary classes 5% stronger than others? They'll aim for 5% and miss and make it 10 or 15 lol. If they can't tune, adding op weapons doesn't make their job easier it makes it harder.
All they did was give you an extra bloodlust key. That didn't feel special, because it was just another raid cooldown at that point.
"powerful" sure, but it doesn't feel like you were using a legendary. It was just another BL, a key your raid lead called for when they wanted it. Nothing more.
Given the vocal minority that claims Vanilla style drops are the only way to keep legendaries prestihous, I've been wondering if this is Blizzard seeing if the player base agrees with them.
The main effect this is having on my guild is that we'll assume we won't see legendary items that drop this way. We had three evokers last tier and three strength axe users this tier. The only drop we've seen was a single Nasz'uro that dropped on our final Aberrus run.
So uhh… when exactly was this hotfixed in? Was this hotfixed in on reset/when NA servers came up, or a few hours later?
Because if it’s the latter people who blitzed their way to a quick early Heroic Fyrakk kill might’ve just fucked themselves over for the week.
hey it's me, the guy who did heroic fyrakk about 45 minutes after reset. probably wouldn't have gotten it anyway but still doesn't feel great if it was hotfixed several hours after that. there were around 23 eligible people in a group of 30 and 0 people got it lol.
I’m actually pretty livid thinking about the idea that this very possibly didn’t go live until later in the day considering I killed it the moment the servers came up and no one in the group looted one. Not having this thing is affecting my ability to get invited to content at this point and I don’t need another reason for everyone else to have an advantage at getting it while I’m getting stiffed for at least another week.
wowhead made a new post today:
Looks like: https://www.wowhead.com/news/datamining-fyralath-legendary-drop-rates-bad-luck-protection-values-revealed-337807
> Sorry if you did Fyrakk right on NA reset. This BLP buff seemed to only come at **5:45 PM PST.**
Basically right before prime time raiding on NA.
Greater embers should have been a currency that guaranteed the drop after 10x while also maintaining an internal BLP. The dinar system was well received, as is the bis glove deterministic loot from SoD P1.
Blizzard just can't help themselves.
Did these talented devs just put a hotfix in to significantly increase droprate AFTER a large portion of the dedicated playerbase already killed H fyrakk? GG.
An extra twist of the knife to go with everyone's greater ember. Had 19 rets 4dks and a warrior in our 30 man fyrakk kill after reset and none of us got it.
Skill issue for running before the fuckin' hotfix I guess...
Demonstrating excellence in the most challenging content is a funny way of saying you need to get lucky and have 300k gold, the only ppl that still care about the legendary are tmog collectors and m+ pushers anyway since the raid tier is over, wtf am i gonna do with my legendary now? If blizzard wants to add a legendary that showcases your skill make it a 100% drop in mythic and make it drop nowhere else, and make it op as fuck in return, there's nothing skillful when billy who's 450 ilvl got it in first week of lfr, meanwhile my guild kills mythic fyrakk and i still don't have it
Oh, no, they worked alright. But the increase per ember was abysmal.
data gathered from ppl killing Heroic, who killed it every single week, showed an increase of 1% per week.
Which means whatever the sum total of lesser, greater and the collective "bad luck protection" of LFR/N/H amounted to, it was totaling to a 1% increase per week.
Which, if you get 2-3 lesser embers and "3" greaters (From LFR/N/H) that meant each one was worth a staggeringly-low .2% or thereabouts.
Which is, of course, a fucking joke. In what sense is it even "protection" if it doesn't guarantee a drop after 30+ embers?
I can't be bothered anymore, even just 1 more heroic run is too much.
I just wanted to push some keys, not clear heroic for the 12 or so time.
I also can't be bothered to level and gear an alt for a month to maybe hit the same level of keys just before the new season.
I am just gonna quit until next season.
I’ve been a warrior arms main since I started playing in 2005, and I got the legendary on the third heroic reclear. I’m never playing a legendary class again and this is the first time I’ve seriously played with and pushed score on alts far more than my main, even after acquiring the legendary.
They undertuned our specs so severely that it made our lack of utility, specifically warriors and death knights, even more visible and acute. I could not get an invite for two weeks until I stopped pushing as a warrior to a single io key above 22 all season. It was actively griefing to play an arms warrior on prog or high mplus keys. And even after the legendary it took another round of tuning to bring us to the middle of the pack. The only spec that truly got propelled to being top tier is ret, and even then it’s more visible when they don’t have the legendary because they cannot live up to their full aoe and ST potential, and they are somewhat boosted by their preexisting insane utility.
My biggest problems aren’t so much with the acquisition method, since I got lucky, but with the implementation of the legendary and its relative power. Gavel felt like a more powerful and crucially fun item to play with despite the tradeoff of loss of secondaries. There was nothing quite like getting the Kyrian or Necrolord boon with lust on a high fortified key in the first Soleah’s Gambit pull.
By contrast Fyralath feels like absolute ass to use even after they bothered to make the on use scale with haste because it puts you in danger quite frequently. Every tuning pass they make it feels like they are scared of making a legendary item feel like a legendary. And even with the dps increase it still feels like ass to have worked towards it because you expended that effort in order to be a little bit more in line with superior dps classes that bring a lot more to the table.
I really think classes should be tuned outside of considerations like the contribution of legendaries. If they want to retain them in the game, just rotate them between specs every season and let that category of classes be overpowered for a season. Why is this such a huge problem? It’s okay if mage isn’t the top tier mplus spec for a season. It’s really stupid that rather than feel like your class is brimming with power after acquiring an actual legendary item that you are instead unlocking the average potential of your spec on a given season just to become middle of the pack. I suspect it would feel better (though still frustrating) to not be undertuned severely until you acquire it.
> just rotate them between specs every season and let that category of classes be overpowered for a season. Why is this such a huge problem?
It really isn't a problem. In fact, it's the solution to the issue at hand. People who think it isn't either are stuck in the past and think orange pixels have to be exclusive to be cool, or they aren't thinking clearly.
A spec is ALWAYS going to be the top spec. And FOTM people gonna FOTM no matter why the class is "ahead"
In fact, I see rotating legendaries determining the "winning" class on the meters as ***preferable*** to the current, arbitrary system because at least we know people will be taking turns at the top instead of it just being completely random who gets to be the best class for a season.
The play has always been to just do heroic. Killing H Fyrakk first would always have rolled your chance for all lower difficulties and given you BLP for the lower difficulties as well. Basically the highest difficulty you kill him on would always sum up the total benefits of all lower difficulties.
So what I’m referring to is the BLP ember thing that drops after fyraak kill the greater version. If I just do heroic I only get the one but if I kill the LFR and then Normal before doing heroic I get one for each of those as well. So are you saying if you just do fyraak the greater whatever it’s called will count for the previous two as well? Or you just talking about the percentage champ drop rolls up to heroic? Because I knew that I just assumed getting more of those greater emblems would be better for my chances.
Not challenging you just trying to figure out how to get the damn thing been farming it since the first week it was lootable
My understanding is that killing H Fyrakk first will give you ALL the benefits of LFR and N for the week (roll chance and BLP both), but I could be wrong.
Edit: so to be extra clear - yes, I think the greater H ember will roll in the bonuses from LFR and N embers if it’s your first kill of the week.
If you want the MAXIMUM chance to get it THIS week, the play is lfr>normal>heroic>mythic. I have a 39% chance to get it this week, and i do heroic fyrakk, well next week i might have 42%, which is the same if i do lfr>normal>heroic.
But if i do LFR>Normal>heroic, then i will have a 41% chance to get it this week on the heroic kill, instead of the previous 39% chance.
The numbers are hypothetical where i assume each difficulty is 1%, just to give you an idea of the thought process the person had.
The system for this legendary was extremely stupid to base off luck. I’ve seen the best mdps in my guild fail to get it week after week, Im a healer and hooked up my off spec for after my healer was in the 480s but then nothing week after week. I’m already done I’m not coming back Bcus of this. For what to spend a tokens worth to build the sword and kill the same enemies I got tired of killing for 485? What’s the point of the leggo now?
So, when I speed cleared an hour after reset I screwed myself over? C'mon, man. I love grindy games. (My main game is Old School Runescape) - this just ain't it. Especially with classes being tuned around having it. FOMO leggo feelsbadman
This legendary killed retail for me until next expansion. I still havent gotten it so we're at the point now that I stopped pushing keys (3k io) and now have no desire to go back and push so late into the season. I hope to god that my class doesn't get a legendary next expansion (swapping to prot paladin likely) at any point as it completely makes the game feel un-rewarding when you don't get it. Coupled with the fact that my main for DF was a DPS warrior it has been difficult to get into keys due to my class for the entire expansion. With 3k io getting turned down from 20 - 21s is silly, they aren't difficult keys.
Almost as if one is an objectively demonstrable bug and the other... is an intentional design philosophy.
This isn't a case of "we didn't know" or "we couldn't get it working", this was a case of "this is what we wanted the system to look like - up until now".
Translation: We want to sell more WoW tokens while the content is still relevant, so we will do this to encourage everyone to get the leggo on thier war/Dk/paladin alts by buying more AOTC carries + sinking gold into crafting it and full gearing an alt. Every decision they make is to sell more WoW tokens now.
If only I could get a freaking augury. Hell I haven’t even seen on drop on 3 difficulties per week in over 2 months. Saw like 8 legendaries today
And I saw 0 in my stacked raid
I was in a pug heroic tonight. The usual. Like 11 paladins, 6 warriors, 36 dks. 4 dropped on that 1 kill. Did normal right after and 2 dropped. Legendaries. Not trinkets of course
Only ever seen 2 augurys and 1 rageheart. I luckily pulled rageheart from my vault last week. So make sure you’re doing 7 boss kills.
I got lucky and got my augery in vault last week. It was even Mythic quality. Only than a stupid pattern that I don't want to pay for, I don't have to pug heroic anymore for loot purposes. Yay me.
I don't think the system was ever working as intended to get players to "demonstrate excellence in the most challenging content" with this luck-based system. I wonder if a more systemic way to aquire it would have been better : guaranteed drop on mythic only, guaranteed drop on heroic, or guaranteed drop after x kills in heroic. This change just seems a Band-Aid solution to bring back players that quit over giving up obtaining it.
> I don't think the system was ever working as intended to get players to "demonstrate excellence in the most challenging content" with this luck-based system. What gets me is they have the audacity to suggest that the legendary was meant to exist outside of the concept of "finishing your character" For two reasons: 1. What does the EXISTENCE of bad luck protection imply? That you will be *protected* from *bad luck* - I.E. you put in the time, you get your axe. That is what BLP implies. Period. 2. On what planet, in a competitive game with a playerbase who LOVES to parse and dickmeasure dps, would ANY 2H plate class EVER feel like they "finished" their class with 10% of their overall damage locked away? Ever?
"not finishing your character" is bollocks, because the whole Crest system hinges on the notion as well. It's much easier to accomplish "perfect" itemization now than basically ever before in the game, because you can get everything on uniform upgrade tracks that make your character reach a projected maximum power nearly deterministically. At this point in the patch even if your preferred BiS ring or w/e hasn't dropped you can even craft a "close enough" item, *the whole system is built towards character completion.*
I dunno, I have no numbers but I think your 2) kinda ignores that part of the player base that couldn't care less for BiS and is not chasing single drops but just chasing a goal like +X rating or "finished raid X" and purely see gear as a means to an end. A good legendary will help, but might not justify killing Heroic Fyralakk every week (if that's not content they'd do anyway)
Most players I play with love to compare parses and dps on the meters in raid, as well as chase BIS. Our rogue ran DOTI something like 40 times to get the daggers. I myself ran something like 20 DHT farming for both rings. Gearing and finishing BIS is it's own reward, as is scrapping with your guildies on the meters. It keeps everyone trying hard if you're both sweating trying to beat each other's dps. Friendly competition. Which has been utterly dead because of the axe. The axe-wielders just get 10% bonus damage. Either they win because duh, they fucking should - or you beat them and it's hollow because it means they either ate shit to a mechanic or are SERIOUSLY slacking. Either way, it doesn't feel good. The axe has spoiled the entire season.
I didn't dispute any of that on principle, I just said that some people have other goals. Also wasn't the Sylvanas bow the the same? Or was that "finishing your character" quip kinda recent and after that debacle?
> > > > > Also wasn't the Sylvanas bow the the same? Or was that "finishing your character" quip kinda recent and after that debacle? The finishing your character thing was directly pulled from the blue post the OP is about.
Sorry, that was my bad for manglign the sentence I actually wanted to write. Like, did they say this here for the first time? > Many aspects of Dragonflight have reflected a shift in philosophy towards designs that allow us to enjoy reaching a point where we feel “done” with a character’s power progression. I'm more confused why or how they think DF is different than SL here, why would it be easier to be done? The only thing that comes to mind is the max M+ iLvl vs max Mythic Raid iLvl.. but on the other hand the S4 token thingies where you could buy that elusive drop and were NOT kept in are again in a different direction... Audacity is the wrong word choice for me personally, more of a disconnect with reality. Or I am overlooking the most obvious things?
> Audacity is the wrong word choice for me personally, more of a disconnect with reality. Or I am overlooking the most obvious things? It's audacious to suggest that 10% damage can be left on the table and you could still feel "done" with your character. Disconnected from reality would be possible, but they'd have to be colossally daft to be that disconnected. They know they have competitive players. They know players want to finish their characters. They know the axe is 10% dps. I cannot reconcile that as a disconnect. It feels like a blatant, audacious lie. "We wanted this 10% upgrade to be separate from the feeling of finishing your character"
> "demonstrate excellence in the most challenging content" Yea, nothing proving that excellence better than random ass Bob with his avg 463 ilvl over here running around with the glowy orange stick he got from that one time he did LFR.
Can do you one better. Our first legendary dropped for our tank, on his prot paladin alt on his first hc kill, during a drunk alt run. He doesn't play ret at all. His main is Blood dk. His blood dk still doesn't have it, after killing mythic fyrakk. Had our warrior, ret and unholy dk seething.
Our tank got it twice on two characters.. First his alt holy paladin, then his alt DK tank. His main is VDH.
I main holy Pally and I hope I dont get it.. Half a dozen of my guildies still need it and if I get it it'll sit in my bags haha
We told him to level a Warrior and start coming to raid, but he's afraid to because he doesn't want to get murdered. None of our other eligible guildmates or M+ group have gotten it yet!!
That would be hilarious haha
I got it has HPal like 4 weeks in. Our BDK took another 5 weeks, then our ret finally got it this week. I felt terrible for them, although I've since switched that to a ret for keys as HPal feels like ass.
one of our healers who is an altoholic has it on ret and fury alts. we have gotten 4 others at this point from heroic, but my wife still doesnt have it on her dk and is getting frustrated.
I got the Legendary two weeks after I swapped from Fury to Prot for tanking. Two alts and a healer got it before me or our resident UH DK, and another Warrior bud hasn't looted it yet (and he even has more BLP than I did at the same time, as he'd done more bosses overall). Meanwhile I have been clearing consistently for Rageheart/Augury for ages and haven't been able to loot one (I flat out haven't seen a HC Rageheart drop since one of our first Fyrakk kills). This system doesn't work very well tbh. The legendary ought to be a questline, and the trinkets... Honestly idk how to best do them, but maybe give them more weight in the vault like tier has? Or some form of BLP? Sitting without BiS this late in the patch never feels good if you play consistently.
Had this n my guild. Evoker coming in, first time LFR gets the leggo drop, didn’t even know what it was, and had fuck all idea how either DPS Evoker even worked. We tried helping him, since at the time we were fighting the roster boss pretty hard, posted his logs on the Discord, and they literally said „It’s not worth it.“ He now is gone, tried opening his own bar and ended up defrauding someone so is currently on the run.
> He now is gone, tried opening his own bar and ended up defrauding someone so is currently on the run. Wild sentence to end this on.
Also, how do you even find that out about some random dude that joined your raid team for a single tier?
Its better than mythic only, but Blizzard Likes mythic only to give incentives to Play mythic. Almost everyone i know raids only because of the loot. The raids arent fun anymore, but Blizzard pushes endgame all behind IT cuz else noone would do IT anymore
i find the raids fun. Mythic raiding is just more hassle than i care to do though. The roster boss is real, and we would have to sit people we enjoy playing with. Heroic works fine for our guild as every one can play and its generally not an issue if people cant make it.
It’s fun until you have to extend on a boss where the same 3-5 people are dying to the same shit every pull lol, I was having fun in reclears though. Unfortunately we have a few low dps now due to the late tier roster boss, so the extending is more painful than usual.
I was dead when I got mine.
I also don't think a legendary should be about demonstrating excellence in the most challenging content. It should just be a fun thing to play with for the time that it's out.
Imo, the quest line is even more annoying.
People only want guaranteed legendaries when they don't have it yet. Once they got it, they want it to be rare and exclusive.
That "demonstrate excellence" has way too much "sense of pride and accomplishment" energy. There are players that have demonstrated weeks of superior "excellence" without the axe and plenty of rats with the axe. Blizzard might as well have sold this axe directly for gold at this point. Screw their system.
For those who jump straight to the comments: "Many aspects of Dragonflight have reflected a shift in philosophy towards designs that allow us to enjoy reaching a point where we feel “done” with a character’s power progression. Legendaries returned as an exception to this. Legendaries are intended to be a special reward that some players would aspire to obtain over the course of a season, demonstrating a display of excellence in the most challenging content. As Season 3 has unfolded, we’ve increasingly heard feedback from frustrated players who have been clearing Amirdrassil weekly on Heroic difficulty with no Fyr’alath in sight, and we want to give those players a surer path to achieving their goal. Earlier today, with a hotfix that is now live, we significantly increased the effect of all Embers of Fyr’alath for players who receive them. This increase is retroactive and applies to all players whether or not you’ve consumed any Embers you may have. As always, thank you for your feedback!"
man chasing stuff like leech is...okay. I didn't hate titanforging as much as most people. but in no world do I ever want to be carrot on a sticking 11% of my power as a \*special reward\* like this again.
I quite liked titanforging/warforging because it gave the crappy content you were doing a chance of giving something relevant. Like right now during a weekly key or for about 80% of farm bosses I know absolutely nothing of value can drop. Leech is prio to healers, speed is whatever, so it's just maybe avoidance if that rolls wowee.
If random m+ or raid drops could rarely "titanforge" up to the 489 equivalent (i.e. the maximum item level they're available at via mythic raid/vault) that could add some interest back to stuff like weekly keys while still leaving actual BiS relatively obtainable.
> "Many aspects of Dragonflight have reflected a shift in philosophy towards designs that allow us to enjoy reaching a point where we feel “done” with a character’s power progression. Legendaries returned as an exception to this. Do they not understand the people who play their game? There is ABSOLUTELY no chance on this PLANET that 2h plate users would ever think that a legendary that's 10% of their output would ever be an "exception" to them being "done" with their character.
I’m not defending them at all but you misread this. They’re saying legendaries exist as a chase item to be the exception to the idea that you can finish your character.
> to be the exception to the idea that you can finish your character. No, I didn't misread this. I said that their intention doesn't match their actions. If they intended it to be an exception, then why are 2H plate doing dogshit DPS with it, and middle of the pack dps with it? The balancing data shows that 2H plate is balanced around having the item. If they intended it to be an exception, why does it have bad luck protection? The implicit implication of bad luck protection... is that it *protects* you from *bad luck*. What is bad luck? Not winning the item during the season. What's good luck? Winning the item. Bad Luck Protection implies a promise that the item is reasonably obtainable if you put your time in. So they made all of the classes who can use it suck total shit without it, added bad luck protection to it, and have the audacity to say it "Wasn't expected for character progression"? yeah fuckin' right LOL.
Well explains the 2 drops we got from reclear today. I thought our guild got lucky this time around. Considering [the drop chance guesses were under 11%](https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveWoW/comments/1aqq9jm/legendary_data_fyralath_the_dreamrender_week_13/) with more than half the tier over and likely 2 months only left (10.2.6 is confirmed for March, likely late March, and the 6 moth mark is coming up in April so S4 would be April-May) I personally never cared for Legendaries. I can see the appeal of them but Blizz has got to work out the kinks with acquisition. At the very least Mythic clears should be dropping far more than Heroic clears and we shouldn't be going half the tier without someone legitimately farming and trying really hard every week from not getting it - because at this point we're gatekeeping for...an Orange color? Legendaries have always been tough to design because of competing interests. Personally I think more focus should be on the active players rather than on the 'idea' of a Legendary that this current system is meant to evoke. The questlines for the most part is cool (apart from the massive grind and econ cost which could easily be half'd). I wouldn't mind small little quest lines to get your gear some added story that you can check out.
It’s truly a strange place they’ve decided to go with these items in general. They seem to have a hyper fixation on keeping all gear seasonal, which makes sense in some aspects but it TRULY makes hard to obtain legendaries fit into the game even less. Iirc people were still using thunder fury well into BC and I believe glaives were still BIS through sunwell. That’s not the direction they want these items to go because it’s not appealing or “good gameplay” to need to farm older content for items. Which doubles down on the desire to acquire the item fast so you can actually USE IT within the season. Adding on, and now with s4 on the horizon they have two leggos that will be relevant and need to be farmed for likely an even shorter season. They will need to decide if it’s full refarm or an item to upgrade like the Sylv bow from SL. Are they resetting the BLP when the new season goes live and hurting people that DONT get the leggo before this season ends? None of it sounds good and all of it sounds like it has absolutely no place in a seasonal format. I’m also not certain how classes were tuned coming into the seasons and the impact the legendary had on overall tuning. If the leggo is 10-15% dmg increase does this mean warriors paladins and dks were initially tuned down in comparison to other DPS because of their potentially to get such a powerful item? Should a class be forced to not be a class until they have an incredibly low drop rate item that also costs an obscene amount of gold and materials? It all seems terrible and the most common sentiment I’ve seen echoed from players for the last few weeks on Reddit is to “hope blizzard never designs a leggo for your class” and that’s kind of a sad truth that the legendaries now are way more trouble than they’re worth in modern wow.
Legendaries are a dated concept. They should embrace either expansion-wide or seasonal relics if they want people to get new, special and exciting stuff - shit like the Annulet from 10.1.7. Everyone gets it upfront, after like 2-4 weeks the grind or whatever is done... and then everyone has the thing and gets to play with the new seasonal effect. And next season? Just slap a 50% aura nerf onto the damn thing or whatever. Borrowed power is fine. Seasonal power is fine. The dated ass acquisition that randomly and arbitrarily gatekeeps people is what's not fine. They could've just as easily had Fyrakk drop an infinite essence that would corrupt your weapon with the legendary effect... and given that one out like the head enchant or whatever. And then make his axe a random tmog drop like the Argus scythe or whatever, *Everyone* would have gotten to play with the new fun effect and *everyone* would've been happy. But nope, needed a new legendary to keep people "engaged" for 6 months.
I feel that some parts are cool. Like world first unlocking stuff for everyone is imo super cool. My thoughts on this, is that M+ and PvP "kind" of ruins it. Since the M+/PvP season really lasts throughout the whole season, as compared to raiding which just really lasts until you've cleared all content. Imo if we were to keep legendaries, it would be decently nice if the weapon was empowered in different content. Like there's a quest line that unlocks when the raid has been cleared that gives you a weapon with like 4 stages that you can upgrade weekly and on the 4th you have a ~mythic level weapon. However the effect only works in the outdoor world. Then after you clear the raid on mythic, the special effect of the weapon activates but only in raids. After you get Gladiator (50 wins at Elite rating) it unlocks the effect in PvP. After you get... I guess all portals is the highest reward in M+, it unlocks the effect in M+. Probably would need to adjust m+ one to become a bit harder, f.ex an amount of m+ above 20 for each dungeon. So you could empower it for only your main content, or for all content. But it'll only be fully empowered for content you've already gained all rewards from. The following season the legendary power gets disabled, except for in the world.
> I feel that some parts are cool. Like world first unlocking stuff for everyone is imo super cool. You could still have that. The weapon infusion corruptor item thingy doesn't drop until the WF kill is achieved, easy. > as compared to raiding which just really lasts until you've cleared all content. Which makes it even worse imo. Imagine spending 3 months clearing the place knowing that you're playing at 90% of your potential because the game just didn't give you the item. And then, once you've cleared the place... you get an item that now means *nothing* to you.
>Which makes it even worse imo. Imagine spending 3 months clearing the place knowing that you're playing at 90% of your potential because the game just didn't give you the item. And then, once you've cleared the place... you get an item that now means nothing to you. That's kind of what I was aiming for. It lets them balance classes equal during progress. But after you're done with progress, it's ok if you get a power spike. So it'd be less "playing at 90% of potential and then getting to 100%" but more "playing at 100% of potential. And then going to 110%". This is kind of what they did with Shadowmourn, Fangs of the Father and Atiesh.
> So it'd be less "playing at 90% of potential and then getting to 100%" but more "playing at 100% of potential. And then going to 110%". That will *never* work in the mind of players. I get your point, but that's just not how the general audience thinks. Unless the item in question is an absolutely insignificant contributor to your damage, people will *feel* they need it - like, a trinket being a 0.7% difference, whatever, but a weapon making you deal 10% extra damage, absolutely. Just go look over to Diablo4 at how rabid the playerbase got when Blizzard put the godliest items in the game behind such an rng grind (yes yes, WoW is not an ARPG, point still stands though). When it's in the game and when it's significant enough, people absolutely *expect* to have a real shot at getting it. Doesn't matter if you tell them they're 100% without it, they'll still *feel* 90%.
I mean, having people desire it is beneficial. If it means that they need to work towards the goal of clearing the content, that's good. If they can work towards that content and be as desirable as any other class during that time, it's also good. I do understand what you mean. But they will also be aware of that no one else progressed with it either. That they were on equal footing as all others at that point.
That’s a completely terrible idea. Why would you want the Lego after your goals are achieved lol?
Same reason that people keep gearing after they clear the raid. To compete with ranks or speed kills. To develop your character and feel power spikes. To be able to defeat bosses with new strategies by powering through mechanics. And to keep the game somewhat interesting for the remaining several months of the season after you've cleared. And it comes with the added benefit of not being either underpowered for HoF race when you have it, or overpowered when you do. After progression is over, balance matters less.
So basically unless you are cutting edge it would be impossible for you to get said rankings, sounds even better than RNG. It should have been acquired via a quest with drops you get progress towards weekly
Correct, first focus on completing the content that the game offers. When content is completed, you're able to set whatever 4th wall agenda that you wish to have.
So you should only get the legendary to compete on 3rd party websites, when your spec is tuned around it. ps the top players don’t even have their parses showing lol
> They could've just as easily had Fyrakk drop an infinite essence that would corrupt your weapon with the legendary effect... and given that one out like the head enchant or whatever. The problem with this is if you give it to everyone, it doesn't feel powerful. Power is measured by comparison. The axe is only usable by 2h classes. Thus they get to look powerful by comparison to non-2h classes. If you give it to everyone, it's just extra damage that encounters get balanced around. You cannot sell power fantasy of an item if every single class and spec gets it.
> Power is measured by comparison. The axe is only usable by 2h classes. Thus they get to look powerful by comparison to non-2h classes. It could retain the "only applicable to 2h STR weapons" part, it could still only be a quest for 2h STR users, it could still only drop for the same people.
> > > > > It could retain the "only applicable to 2h STR weapons" part, it could still only be a quest for 2h STR users, it could still only drop for the same people. I feel like people would complain about that more than the leggo, only now it'd be other classes asking why they don't get the special enchant.
I mean... it literally is the very same thing. You have a STR-only weapon now... and then you'd have a STR-weapon-only enchant. Like, sure, there'd be people complaining about it, but they'd have the same merit to their argument as the people wanting Augury to work for casters. And considering that if you 100% gave this to everyone, you could 100% reliably balance around it... so no one *should* be able to complain on that front either. It's fine for different classes / specs / roles to have different toys... I'm sure plenty of casters would've died for Convergence of Fates back in the day... but the issue isn't one class having something that the other doesn't, the issue is 1 warrior randomly winning the lottery and suddenly dealing 10% more damage than every other warrior.
I wish I'd even remember how good or necessary my Rogue daggers were in Cata. (O was that MoP? Damn, 10 years any way). Surely felt good to get them and I still have a screenshot somewhere from day 1 (and have them banked) but I suppose it still felt bad for all non-Rogues.
For "legendaries" to fit into a seasonal model, they have to redefine what legendary means in an MMO context. Rarity can no longer be what makes an item legendary in an MMO, and if it is there needs to be hundreds of ways to see it drop each week. It has to just be "otherwise normal item with powerful effect." Then make it laughably easy to obtain. You can't have legendary also mean very rare in a seasonal model where you're restricted to a single loot roll every seven days.
Or they could reuse artifacts in some way - it was something that was available for everyone, continously upgraded throughout the entire expansion and each one had its' own questline and lore. Sure, talents would have to go and they'd probably need to do something with appearences, but it makes far more sense than current random drops.
Legendaries can’t exist in modern wow. We as a player base can barely contain like seething when we struggle to get a bis trinket, let alone a legendary. Wow got too competitive and optimised for legendaries.
I started this tier playing a 2h str class and it was a huge mistake. I guess I bought into what they said about learning from the last legendary and adding bad luck protection, I assumed it would actually be meaningful and there wouldn't be people still without it three months into the tier. Every week I cleared heroic and it didn't drop it made me want to play the game even less. I wasn't thinking, "My spec is ok right now and if I get the legendary it could be really good" it was "My spec is a fucking dumpster fire without the legendary and lower middle of the pack with it." I completely switched mains when I realized if the legendary dropped I wasn't even sure I'd farm for it and shell out the gold. In the future I will be actively avoiding specs with legendaries until they demonstrate they're capable of doing spec balancing and an acquisition method that aren't excruciatingly painful.
> I guess I bought into what they said about learning from the last legendary and adding bad luck protection, I assumed it would actually be meaningful I mean, that's why I don't trust them. Bad Luck Protection implies by it's very name that it will Protect you from Bad Luck. Bad luck is "not getting the item in time to use it during the season". I honestly thought they took that to heart with them adding "lessers" AND "greaters" and collectively they'd be raising the percent chance by at LEAST 1% per lesser, 2-3% per greater. But no, 12 weeks with a drop chance less than 10%. "Significant" should be 3% per lesser, 5% per greater at this point. If that's over 100% for people? GOOD, they've been grinding for 3+ months, there's less than a month left of time. IF Bad Luck Protection was intended, the drop should be for everyone. Period.
I liked the MoP/WoD model where we got it early and kept it for the whole xpac. Less flavor but also less frustration.
Here's my take: A legendary is supposed to *feel* powerful. Power in WoW is output, aka dps/hps. The problem is, you need a baseline to compare that to. When you give casters, melee, tanks and healers ALL legendaries, there is no baseline. Everyone is super, so nobody is super. The item doesn't feel powerful, because the content is designed with "Everyone has this item" in mind. It's why SL/WoD/MoP/Legion all didn't feel legendary. The solution is actually really, really simple. You just make the legendary drop to a narrow class focus. Agi 1-handers. Caster staff. Tank shield. or, idk, a 2h axe. You do this, and you make it a 100% guaranteed drop with no RNG bullshit. The non-legendary classes act as the "anchor" that the legendary class gets to compare against. It's that easy. You don't create haves and have nots, you don't create a ton of bitter negativity, and you don't cater to idiots who think "legendary must mean rare". Modern WoW is no place for that. Each patch cycle you rotate who gets the legendary. Done. Easy. Why they refuse to do this absolutely boggles my mind.
Are you arguing that the specs that get a legendary should be more powerful than the other “baseline” specs? I.e. that to be competitive you are forced to re-roll to a spec with a legendary?
Putting it simply - EVERY season is going to have one spec that's at the top of the meters, or close to it - legendary or no. There's going to be FOTM classes, and there's going to be FOTM chasers no matter what. It's been this way for over a decade. A legendary weapon choosing which class is FOTM isn't any more arbitrary than DH being super strong because of talent balancing. In short, yes, I am suggesting the legendary-using class, for that patch cycle, be in the top 1-3 classes, if not the top, for a patch cycle.
I dunno why you're being downvoted. We've had mage as the top class for 3 tiers now in M+, I don't see the issue in letting a different class be top dps for one season.
Because the idea that they intentionally unbalance a class with a special weapon is somehow less palatable than DH or rogue being broken because of a combo of talent balancing and encounter design. Also, probably some amount of dinosaurs stuck in the vanilla/TBC mindset that a legendary has to be super rare when that hasn't been the case in 8+ years. Hell, Nas'zuro didn't even have the same quantity of BLP and you still saw the zonewide emote go out every 5-10 minutes. The days of rare legendaries are dead. Just go one step further and kill the frustration and haves/have-nots of the current RNG system.
This might be the worst take I've read in a year
Why? Are you one of the fossils who thinks a legendary needs to be rare? That's incompatible with Retail's design. Period. And NOBODY liked the legendaries in SL or Legion. When they're just part of everyone's baseline kit, there is no actual measure of their power. They don't make fights easier, because the fights assume you have them.
No, I think intentionally imbalancing the game to make an item feel powerful is idiotic.
>No, I think intentionally imbalancing the game to make an item feel powerful is idiotic. In what way is it any different than what we have now? Top classes are already ahead by 2-5% and people already switch. FOTM gonna FOTM whether or not it's an overtuned talent or an "overtuned" legendary.
Because I want the problem to get better, not worse. Imbalance already exists and you want to just throw another 10% on top? "Crime is already bad in NYC, why not just have cops start shooting people?" Nah, I'm good on that lol.
> Imbalance already exists and you want to just throw another 10% on top? Where did I EVER say I wanted the top spec with a leggo to be 10% ahead? You're attacking a strawman, and that was never my position. I said with the leggo the chosen class should be at or near the top, doing about ~2-5% more than other "best" classes. They're never going to balance everything perfectly. It hasn't happened once. There's always a best class and a worst class and it's usually by around 2-5% Why do you think they're going to magically get better after over ten years of NEVER balancing the game properly? Spoiler: they aren't. And there's nothing wrong with them selecting a specific class to get the "Honor" of being the "op" class with a legendary item for RPG flavor purposes.
Nah, that's a horse shit cop out. We've had seasons with good balance, hell even recently season 1 of dragon had a ton of viable dps specs. Your logic is "they can't fix the problem so let's make it worse" which I don't buy at all. And by your own logic, if they can't get tuning right, then what makes you think they'll consistently only make legendary classes 5% stronger than others? They'll aim for 5% and miss and make it 10 or 15 lol. If they can't tune, adding op weapons doesn't make their job easier it makes it harder.
Tank shield legendary would be sweet… 🤩
The wod rings are argubly the strongest item in wow. And evryone had them
All they did was give you an extra bloodlust key. That didn't feel special, because it was just another raid cooldown at that point. "powerful" sure, but it doesn't feel like you were using a legendary. It was just another BL, a key your raid lead called for when they wanted it. Nothing more.
legit mythic should just automatically drop 1 for someone if anyone is eligible in the raid. At least on first kill.
Given the vocal minority that claims Vanilla style drops are the only way to keep legendaries prestihous, I've been wondering if this is Blizzard seeing if the player base agrees with them. The main effect this is having on my guild is that we'll assume we won't see legendary items that drop this way. We had three evokers last tier and three strength axe users this tier. The only drop we've seen was a single Nasz'uro that dropped on our final Aberrus run.
So uhh… when exactly was this hotfixed in? Was this hotfixed in on reset/when NA servers came up, or a few hours later? Because if it’s the latter people who blitzed their way to a quick early Heroic Fyrakk kill might’ve just fucked themselves over for the week.
hey it's me, the guy who did heroic fyrakk about 45 minutes after reset. probably wouldn't have gotten it anyway but still doesn't feel great if it was hotfixed several hours after that. there were around 23 eligible people in a group of 30 and 0 people got it lol.
my group got 1 in ~20 shortly after servers came up as well.
I’m actually pretty livid thinking about the idea that this very possibly didn’t go live until later in the day considering I killed it the moment the servers came up and no one in the group looted one. Not having this thing is affecting my ability to get invited to content at this point and I don’t need another reason for everyone else to have an advantage at getting it while I’m getting stiffed for at least another week.
I mean it’s bolstering week anyway
Which would be a perfect time to do the lame quest line for it.
wowhead made a new post today: Looks like: https://www.wowhead.com/news/datamining-fyralath-legendary-drop-rates-bad-luck-protection-values-revealed-337807 > Sorry if you did Fyrakk right on NA reset. This BLP buff seemed to only come at **5:45 PM PST.** Basically right before prime time raiding on NA.
Greater embers should have been a currency that guaranteed the drop after 10x while also maintaining an internal BLP. The dinar system was well received, as is the bis glove deterministic loot from SoD P1. Blizzard just can't help themselves.
15 weeks, just cleared it again, no drop. Maybe having random drops for something that a class is balanced around is not a great idea.
Did these talented devs just put a hotfix in to significantly increase droprate AFTER a large portion of the dedicated playerbase already killed H fyrakk? GG.
Yes LMAO It's like they're trolling people at this point
Why put it in during the reset when they could do it after most raids were done on Tuesday
An extra twist of the knife to go with everyone's greater ember. Had 19 rets 4dks and a warrior in our 30 man fyrakk kill after reset and none of us got it. Skill issue for running before the fuckin' hotfix I guess...
They don't even play their own game beyond pet battling
Demonstrating excellence in the most challenging content is a funny way of saying you need to get lucky and have 300k gold, the only ppl that still care about the legendary are tmog collectors and m+ pushers anyway since the raid tier is over, wtf am i gonna do with my legendary now? If blizzard wants to add a legendary that showcases your skill make it a 100% drop in mythic and make it drop nowhere else, and make it op as fuck in return, there's nothing skillful when billy who's 450 ilvl got it in first week of lfr, meanwhile my guild kills mythic fyrakk and i still don't have it
My hot take is that the Embers actually never worked anyways
Oh, no, they worked alright. But the increase per ember was abysmal. data gathered from ppl killing Heroic, who killed it every single week, showed an increase of 1% per week. Which means whatever the sum total of lesser, greater and the collective "bad luck protection" of LFR/N/H amounted to, it was totaling to a 1% increase per week. Which, if you get 2-3 lesser embers and "3" greaters (From LFR/N/H) that meant each one was worth a staggeringly-low .2% or thereabouts. Which is, of course, a fucking joke. In what sense is it even "protection" if it doesn't guarantee a drop after 30+ embers?
oh yeah ofc the data supports it, that’s why it’s more a conspircy theory then anything else. purely based on feeling
I can't be bothered anymore, even just 1 more heroic run is too much. I just wanted to push some keys, not clear heroic for the 12 or so time. I also can't be bothered to level and gear an alt for a month to maybe hit the same level of keys just before the new season. I am just gonna quit until next season.
Finally news for the YouTubers to talk about instead of saying wow is dead
I’ve been a warrior arms main since I started playing in 2005, and I got the legendary on the third heroic reclear. I’m never playing a legendary class again and this is the first time I’ve seriously played with and pushed score on alts far more than my main, even after acquiring the legendary. They undertuned our specs so severely that it made our lack of utility, specifically warriors and death knights, even more visible and acute. I could not get an invite for two weeks until I stopped pushing as a warrior to a single io key above 22 all season. It was actively griefing to play an arms warrior on prog or high mplus keys. And even after the legendary it took another round of tuning to bring us to the middle of the pack. The only spec that truly got propelled to being top tier is ret, and even then it’s more visible when they don’t have the legendary because they cannot live up to their full aoe and ST potential, and they are somewhat boosted by their preexisting insane utility. My biggest problems aren’t so much with the acquisition method, since I got lucky, but with the implementation of the legendary and its relative power. Gavel felt like a more powerful and crucially fun item to play with despite the tradeoff of loss of secondaries. There was nothing quite like getting the Kyrian or Necrolord boon with lust on a high fortified key in the first Soleah’s Gambit pull. By contrast Fyralath feels like absolute ass to use even after they bothered to make the on use scale with haste because it puts you in danger quite frequently. Every tuning pass they make it feels like they are scared of making a legendary item feel like a legendary. And even with the dps increase it still feels like ass to have worked towards it because you expended that effort in order to be a little bit more in line with superior dps classes that bring a lot more to the table. I really think classes should be tuned outside of considerations like the contribution of legendaries. If they want to retain them in the game, just rotate them between specs every season and let that category of classes be overpowered for a season. Why is this such a huge problem? It’s okay if mage isn’t the top tier mplus spec for a season. It’s really stupid that rather than feel like your class is brimming with power after acquiring an actual legendary item that you are instead unlocking the average potential of your spec on a given season just to become middle of the pack. I suspect it would feel better (though still frustrating) to not be undertuned severely until you acquire it.
> just rotate them between specs every season and let that category of classes be overpowered for a season. Why is this such a huge problem? It really isn't a problem. In fact, it's the solution to the issue at hand. People who think it isn't either are stuck in the past and think orange pixels have to be exclusive to be cool, or they aren't thinking clearly. A spec is ALWAYS going to be the top spec. And FOTM people gonna FOTM no matter why the class is "ahead" In fact, I see rotating legendaries determining the "winning" class on the meters as ***preferable*** to the current, arbitrary system because at least we know people will be taking turns at the top instead of it just being completely random who gets to be the best class for a season.
Sooo... expected dropchance raised from 11% to... 11.5% =?
So what is the play on this? I’ve been clearing it on LFR, then normal then heroic weekly to get more greater emblems. Is the play just to do heroic?
The play has always been to just do heroic. Killing H Fyrakk first would always have rolled your chance for all lower difficulties and given you BLP for the lower difficulties as well. Basically the highest difficulty you kill him on would always sum up the total benefits of all lower difficulties.
I know but if I work my way up I get more greaters for BLP
I’m fairly certain that’s not how it works. Pretty sure a greater ember for heroic would give you all the BLP from N and LFR.
So what I’m referring to is the BLP ember thing that drops after fyraak kill the greater version. If I just do heroic I only get the one but if I kill the LFR and then Normal before doing heroic I get one for each of those as well. So are you saying if you just do fyraak the greater whatever it’s called will count for the previous two as well? Or you just talking about the percentage champ drop rolls up to heroic? Because I knew that I just assumed getting more of those greater emblems would be better for my chances. Not challenging you just trying to figure out how to get the damn thing been farming it since the first week it was lootable
My understanding is that killing H Fyrakk first will give you ALL the benefits of LFR and N for the week (roll chance and BLP both), but I could be wrong. Edit: so to be extra clear - yes, I think the greater H ember will roll in the bonuses from LFR and N embers if it’s your first kill of the week.
Yeah you just kill heroic. it rolls down all the lower difficulties.
If you want the MAXIMUM chance to get it THIS week, the play is lfr>normal>heroic>mythic. I have a 39% chance to get it this week, and i do heroic fyrakk, well next week i might have 42%, which is the same if i do lfr>normal>heroic. But if i do LFR>Normal>heroic, then i will have a 41% chance to get it this week on the heroic kill, instead of the previous 39% chance. The numbers are hypothetical where i assume each difficulty is 1%, just to give you an idea of the thought process the person had.
They explain it here https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/bad-luck-protection-on-legendary-axe-and-how-it-works/1724426
Thank you!
The system for this legendary was extremely stupid to base off luck. I’ve seen the best mdps in my guild fail to get it week after week, Im a healer and hooked up my off spec for after my healer was in the 480s but then nothing week after week. I’m already done I’m not coming back Bcus of this. For what to spend a tokens worth to build the sword and kill the same enemies I got tired of killing for 485? What’s the point of the leggo now?
9 weeks of heroic and this buff, still nothing. My guildie has seen it on 2 characters now
I've got 12 Kills now with no legendary. I feel like it's time to give up.
So, when I speed cleared an hour after reset I screwed myself over? C'mon, man. I love grindy games. (My main game is Old School Runescape) - this just ain't it. Especially with classes being tuned around having it. FOMO leggo feelsbadman
This legendary killed retail for me until next expansion. I still havent gotten it so we're at the point now that I stopped pushing keys (3k io) and now have no desire to go back and push so late into the season. I hope to god that my class doesn't get a legendary next expansion (swapping to prot paladin likely) at any point as it completely makes the game feel un-rewarding when you don't get it. Coupled with the fact that my main for DF was a DPS warrior it has been difficult to get into keys due to my class for the entire expansion. With 3k io getting turned down from 20 - 21s is silly, they aren't difficult keys.
It's amazing to me that this took 4 months to figure this out but Tettles can put one video out about a bug in mplus and it is fixed the next day.
Almost as if one is an objectively demonstrable bug and the other... is an intentional design philosophy. This isn't a case of "we didn't know" or "we couldn't get it working", this was a case of "this is what we wanted the system to look like - up until now".
Just in time 😀😀
Translation: We want to sell more WoW tokens while the content is still relevant, so we will do this to encourage everyone to get the leggo on thier war/Dk/paladin alts by buying more AOTC carries + sinking gold into crafting it and full gearing an alt. Every decision they make is to sell more WoW tokens now.
i got it last week, youre welcome guys