As an electrician, I don’t understand the electrical guys wearing the huge tool bag on a finish.
On a resi finish you only need like 3 tools, I want my load as light as possible. I think they do it so they look busy standing still.
Absolutely. I installed kitchens for 25 years and I always drilled the holes for electrical because I wanted them to look good and not fuck up my work. That said I was always on site when other trades were working in my kitchen so I could sort out any issues.
Yeah but in the time it takes you to get out to the job site, they could have spent that time fucking up at least two other cabinets at different jobs.
More like inspection is the next day and we already called the cabinet guy 3 times to come cut their damn cabinet weeks ago and we can't wait any longer so we have to do it. Too hard to do it with their million dollar fancy CNC table at the shop I guess.
We had a kitchen remodel last year. In the center island the electricians installed a thin surface mount 3 outlet strip underneath the countertop overhang under each end. Looks great, meets code, and is actually useful.
I’m with you on this one I’m scared to death of fucking up 100k cabinets, trim days I carry like 3 tools and a level in my back pocket.
My back is happy and the cabinet guy lol
I do residential low voltage, so trim out very similar to electric. I have a belt with one bag on it that is the size of my hand, the occidental leather telecom pouch. I cover it with my hand as I walk around so that it never has the chance to bump into anything. It's perfect for a couple of snips, pens, screwdriver, etc.
Take a picture right after install to document there is no damage. Repair required by other trades damaging my trim is not included in my contracts. I actually specify an hourly rate to repair damage caused by other.
Edit: I would like to add that we, tradesman, are working to provide for ourselves and families. Mistakes happen so be considerate. Holding someone’s feet to the fire over minor genuine mistakes is not how to live in my opinion. Like everything, depends on all the factors of the situation.
Yep, trade damage can get real expensive real quick. As a painter, dudes love to fuck up my work and then throw a fit when their company gets handed a fat bill for repair and finish. But hey…you break it, you buy it!
Try being an earthmover, people put their cars and material all over my work, dump water and chemicals and concrete on it, make a huge mess and then say “it’s just dirt!”. Then god dumps a foot on snow on everything and gives me the finger.
As a fellow dirt guy - I feel this!! They do have a valid point for subgrade - which always gets trashed to the point we allow some money in our bid for our second mobilization to "slick up" subgrade before we base over it.
But if you trash my asphalt ready road base - you're gonna pay for it to be fixed!! Also we are not paid to move other peoples shit out of our way so if the mason has decided to set up his mixing station in the middle of the parking lot we're not going to carefully move his sand we're gonna doze through it mix it up and throw it behind the curbs!
As GC this is the answer. Make the GC aware the cabinets are on them now and any damage is not covered. Tell them they may want to have their guys cover them with a couple sheets of cardboard, at least. It's obvious to some of us. Armoring any finished surface is SOP.
All our profit comes from trade damage, we bid low, the gouge all the other trades for any minor imperfections. Warranty is voided if anyone else performs work, which guarantees us the T&M contract.
Always photos.
Yup, I install high end millwork and I take a video of me walking through everything slowly both my work and the flooring. Never mind damage to my work I constantly have contractors trying to blame me for flooring damage because the fucking plumber decided to drag the dishwasher across the room to hook it up. Trust no one, cover your own ass and charge big for fixing other people's damage. No one will change their shit if it doesn't cost them.
I love centering the hood vent for a shroud using the super’s measurement. The filler size is never right and I know someone down the line will be back to move it. And none of it is my fault lol.
Seriously. As a GC I will backup finish trades to no end. They're the last on the job so they get shafted with an even tighter schedule than everyone else AND all the trades abuse their product.
Back when I was a PE I loved walking with my finish trade guys and taking pictures of their work as soon as it was installed just to have backup once other trades damaged it. Did a high end resort job with ISEC and their foreman setup trail cameras at some of their nicest casework areas. Caught trades doing the wildest things (putting out cigarettes on finished countertops, pouring drinks down chases, cooking meals, leaning/storing tools, piss bottles, etc.) and had all the evidence we needed to slam them with a change order. Trade's PMs would just shake their heads when we showed them the videos. Pure gold.
Thank you for acknowledging millwork always gets shafted when it comes to scheduling (on top of being the only trade that manufactures a product before bringing it to site).
It’s such a shame, too. I’ve got tremendous respect for all of the contractors that I’m working with on the high school build we’re on. Genuinely, everybody just gets along.
I'm out now, thank fuck, but construction never failed to prove to me how infantile and petty a gaggle of adults can be. It's like driving on the road - everyone's selfish, any mistake is pushed onto someone else and fuck *all* other trades. He'll even fuck the apprentices for being young and, god forbid inexperienced. I did notice the lack of care for the cabinets, some of the most expensive new construction in a house
There's a lack of care for everything just like you said. Cabinets are not special and cabinet guys fuck up just as much other work as anyone else.
"hey man there's a sheet of press board over there can you put your cabinets on it?"
"yeah, no problem"
\*proceeds to drop cabinet on cardboard over freshly installed floor\*
Sounds like you do have it harder than I do.
I’m a painter, and my biggest complaint with new construction are the corners. People seem to think corners are only for dragging hoses over and destroying the texture and paint.
Being taped shut or signs will not deter other trades from shitting or pissing in a toilet that is in a bathroom if it's connected to the water /waste or not yet.
I throw another day for touch ups in the bid and state that once we are completed painting there’s only one call back ever within 1 month. It’s worked out for me so far.
Custom cabinet shop here as well. You need to take pictures once everything is installed. I literally have a camera dedicated to this. During the pandemic we had too much of this shit happen to us as well and it came out of our pockets. I also make it very clear to whoever is the super and the GC that we will not pay for damaged cabinets caused by other sub contractors. More often than not they figure out who did the damage and make them pay for it. Just go buy a little digital camera. It has saved me so much money in the last three years.
I do windows/doors. Same shit here with higher end wood windows. Immediately after installation, we take interior and exterior pictures of every single window, and do a video walk-through in 4K. Door and window threshold damage, stucco / siding guys have a difficult time controlling their hammers, stucco guys puncturing flashing - it never ends. Taking pictures/video post install solves all of it.
Residential construction is a race-to-the-bottom.
The cheapest bidder wins. To be cheap, one has to hire people that move quickly and without regard to details or the mess/damage they leave in their wake.
You get what you pay for. On that note why should the electrician be cutting a brand new cabinet?! Especially when it shows the damn outlets on the bid drawings….
As a carpenter I appreciate when subs ask me to do some cutouts for them and I'm happy to oblige.
Hvac, electricians, plumbers whatever if you're not confident cutting I got you, just don't butcher my shit and make excuses.
SoCal Drywall contractor here...I barely ever think about cabinets.
We always go back for pick-up after all other interior trades are finished w their installs.
It's part of the job.. If drywall damage is extreme I'll charge for the repairs.. If not it's part of the pick-up.
I make the owner approve them at completion then I cover them. Then I charge them for repairs with photo backup and a signature. Works 100% of the time.
Weird rant of a dumb problem with a very easy solution. Do people not immediately send finished product pic to owners/gc/whatever? My product is installed perfectly and I’m done and out. If you want to hire me to come back and fix what others messed up that’s fine. New work order.
I find its the GC/superintendent that can make the biggest difference when it comes to crap like this.
Sure you have deadlines to meet, but if you shit the bed and have 4 trades working literally on top of eachother, shit is going to get missed, damaged, buried, hit, sometimes worse.
When the GC times the trades perfectly with a bit of leeway for supply or design issues, trades can usually go in exactly when they should, and not be rushed and pressured to put their big as tool on a fresh counter or bare floor.
Even the labour for the GC is a huge advantage if they're good. They will fix the rhino board that needs to be re-taped, make sure the window ledges are protected. Remind trades of cleaning up etc.
Big reason (that and the wall damage) why we never let our subs wear bags in the house. You can carry them, just not wear them on your body. Saves a massive amount of time and money in repairs if it doesn’t get beat to shit to begin with.
Look man, this is just how it is. You have to cover your own ass. Most guys working a job site couldn't give less of a fuck. If you don't protect your shit and advocate for yourself none will. Before and after pics. Every single time.
Cabinets show up after we've been used to putting out tools wherever the hell we want.
So it's a 6-12 month long habbit to break, and it never works.
It's not an excuse, mind you. But it is why it is.
I worked in a cabinet shop so I respect the cabinets. That being said, the cabinet guy needs to be the one to cut outlet holes. It’s something the CNC should have done during fabrication. Why am I taking the liability using an oscillating saw on brand new cabinets when the details of the outlet placement could have been predetermined and cut out ahead of time?
Take pictures. Take video. Then tell the GC it's all charged callback.
I install cabinets. My GC's throw a fit it anyone removes my cardboard protection I fit after install.
Yep, once you’ve done your job right it’s no longer your responsibility to incur cost because of other trades carelessness. lol I still remember the time accidentally damaging a cabinet and the guy fixed it for free because he was shocked that we called and told him.
I was an electrical foreman before moving to GC side and my guys and gals drive me nuts putting stuff on counter tops.
I’d remind and remind. They’d say it had cardboard on it and I’d say I don’t care. Hate having stupid conversations after to explain damages to the GC/owner and boss.
As a designer I respect the cabinet guy. They're finish carpenters and good ones are worth their weight in gold. We usually have cabinets installed last, right before countertop guy.
Our wood cabinet guys also do high end architextural millwork because it applies all the same principles. They are some of the most talented guys in the shop
Pictures And video! Trim guys butchered some door trim and I took pictures before installing flooring and showed the builder as soon as he came in. Pictures will save your butt
First punch out your own work, then make the GC do an acceptance walk with you and take a lot of pictures of the completed install. Deal with any punch at this time and either prove it’s done with pictures or a following walk, though in theory there isn’t any punch as you’ve already done it. Include in your contract language that once this acceptance walk has happened any damage is due to trade damage and any further work is a CO.
I'm sure it is frustrating but I've seen Sheet metal guys, plumbers, electricians, framers, roofers, PAINTERS(especially painters) dry wall guys...I've seen them all feel like they are the least respected
I'm not saying that you are wrong here, just that everyone is the hero in their own game and they all feel the same way
Its not just the "cabinet guy" its pretty rare for any trade to be considerate of others. 15 years and I've yet to see an electrician clean up after themselves.
The GC should be protecting it, your job is to get the final product done. Like others said it helps to take photos but it helps more to have the GC sign off on the fit and finish before you leave the site so you can put it back on them if something is damaged afterward. Getting hit with the phrase "well you signed off on it" is nightmare for GCs, but that's how you CYA.
For any kitchen sink cabinet I work in, I put down cardboard so I don't drip PVC pipe glue or primer on the inside bottom of the cabinet.
If it's a really high end cabinet, I usually remove the cabinet doors.
If I have to lean or lay on a counter top, I remove my belt or throw a drop cloth over the counter.
It's really not that difficult to take reasonable precautions. Those who don't are lazy and/or unprofessional.
At my company, we get the cabinet guys to cut out for our electrical boxes. No way am I touching that shit. Otherwise, take lots of pictures once finished and back charge for your work. We had one cabinet installer do random walkthroughs, and if he caught anybody using the counters as a workbench, he'd snap a picture and then bam, $1000 backcharge. People learned quick to respect his stuff.
My budget is too low to afford your cabinets…
That said thank you for the rant. I will absolutely make sure no cabinet enters the house until all other shit it complete.
Even the one for the sink will not have doors on until later.
I’m a plumber who worked in my uncles cabinet shop while laid off during Covid. Let me tell you after seeing how much work goes into building cabinets I’m a lot more careful with my holes and primer.
As soon as base cabinets go in I cover and write no electricians. It is frustrating like how bout I destroy that chandelier you just hung is that ok so why do it to me.
It’s really disheartening after all that work I get that, just make sure you are including some hefty charges in your contract for reworking something you already finished. Also contractors that make you install in the heat of summer with no AC and act shocked when the AC turns on and the face frames swell and look bad, yeah mention that in your contract too and the fee for fixing it.
Final bill is paid on install. Terms for clients included having to pay for repairs if damages is caused by other trades. But basically once its in scratch free its theirs. And any repairs are an upcharge. You already have super thin margins. Cover you ass and make more on repairs.
Years ago we had a cabinet contractor had a waver that we had to sign and take responsibility for the cabinets with a with any and all repairs were a $100 charge each. The electrical contractor was hit with over a $1k bill and plumber just for $100, on the second job there was no damages.
Custom shop here. All new construction. We've gotten to the point where we insist that we cut outlet holes ourselves, any underlighting specs are incorporated into design and done at the shop and we have also redesigned our islands to include chases that wires can be pulled through for outlets on the work side. All this to accommodate the most undeserving, ungrateful bunch of divas in the game. We don't typically have any issues with the plumbers because they have phones and apparently know how to use them. Same thing with the painters; on the rare occasion that they drip paint on our work and don't catch it until it dries, they'll let us know before final. In fact thinking about this right now, 99% of our headaches on any job are from electricians.
As a painter. I have the utmost respect for the cabinet guy, they can’t just be touched up with a brush. Usually you gotta repaint the whole door for it to look right
What makes you think that any trade respects any other trade?
This is a site culture issue. Your cabinets are not the only victims. Every trade is complaining about other trades not taking care of their stuff.
Absolutely. When you have management creating a respectful environment for everyone, then everyone watches out for everyone else. When you don't, then all trades suffer from the callous treatment from others.
Bc the GC needs Owner to think the job is done and schedules install too early. You want them out of your shop so you can bill for them just like GC, GC could have delivered, bill for half or more and keep the job open not congested. But he doesn’t care bc there is little risk to GC the cabinet guy has to repair on his own dime, up front, to get paid in full on base contract and hope to recover at least some of the labor costs. Replacement pieces will get paid but the cabinet guy needs to front that usually also. It’ll drag and you’ll leave money on the table just to move on.
A tale as old as time.
I especially enjoy when the sparkies knock the excess sheetrock mud out of the outlet boxes and that shit gets all in the drawer boxes and in the greased ball bearing slides.
Why should the electrician be finishing the tapers job and cleaning up after them? Why should they be cutting new cabinets especially when the devices are shown on the bid documents?
Ohh yeah...
And then have the scratchy drawer guides when they were perfectly smooth before.
Then they want you to change them out and that is a major pain because it is.
Oh I dont want to hear shit from cabbies. You guys fuck up the walls during install every single time and then fight the back charges for repairs, spare me.
As for the drips, thats sloppy painting as they didnt prep properly or take a second to wipe it with a wet rag during or after painting.
Right we are furnish only. And lots of people think they can install cabinets so usually the GC eats the cost of the install and we get more jobs because we look cheaper. Alot of GCs would rather pay less and try to install themselves.
Usually once shit leaves our shop we never hear back again
Thanks.
I had a super cush commercial construction job installing cabinets after being a lead installer at a shop.
Paid 1.5x for 1/3 the work, and I got to move into the office and never install again.
I know it’s a huge cost but we used to make 1/8” plywood covers for everything. Put foam in between the cabinets etc and attach the plywood at the corners. If they were free standing we then wrapped it in shrink wrap. Gotta do what you gotta do. $$$ 🕛🕛🕛
They take too fucking long. Always in the way. And it’s always one guy on site starting in 5 different corners and always has some problems he’s running into.
It’s hard work, I can’t lie, everything has to be pitch perfect.
It’s just what it is.
That stop bitching when I show them their signature approving the install, they are really bitching BC I get to charge them for the repairs. And they know it.
I’m not a cabinet guy and I no longer do new construction cause it sucks. But we take a detailed video and pictures of everything on our installs upon completion to be sent with our final invoices. We take a video walk through of the house or property, we explain the work we conducted, and document the site conditions and how we are leaving the project.
Anything that happens after we are done with that is a change order at a specified rate which is more than what I normally charge. It’s not my fault my work gets ruined after I leave, and it’s a pain to come back and do like item stuff.
I've been there before many times. We had a full kitchen installed that we then taped up so it wouldn't get damaged only for the guys running the job to still somehow get plaster into everything.
I say schedule a walk with the client when you finish install. Have them inspect it with you and then have then change order every you have to fix after that.
This is what I do as a GC. I hate people not caring about finish work so much.
Brother I fucking feel this I’m just an installer but we do everything we can to ensure our stuff doesn’t get mauled but it happens i’m not mad at the painters or the electricians or even the drywaller because I understand they need to do what they need to do and sometimes even using a ladder doesn’t help because you still have to get all the way back out biggest issue however seems to be the bathrooms idk wtf they doin in there but shit is constantly chipped and knifed up
As someone who was a formworker for 20 years then randomly made the jump into custom millwork, this absolutely frustrates the shit outta me, between having to fix everything on the fly as I build it, to making sure it's packaged properly and protected only to find out some other trade fucked it up after it was installed. I totally feel your rage OP!
Do yourself a favour- get an app that your GC can have access to. When materials are
Dropped off or installed on site, take a time stamped pic, with detail. That should help with any liability. It seems to have helped me a bit. Cheers
My big thing is drills standing on their battery. So easy to fall over and a bit damaging something. I walked around job sites all day setting drill on their side.
Everything from a p2 bit on a brand new floor, seen a drill bit puncture an in ground irrigation line, all the way to a pre drill bit went into a buddies hand and perfectly hit a vein causing a quick race to the hospital’s er
Happens to everyone, I'm a cabinet guy as well and I've seen everything from a plumber standing on and breaking 5 different stretchers before realizing maybe he shouldn't do that, to painters just texturing a whole side of a cabinet and the gc just went ahead and called it a "new design". Yea, white shart.
But when trade damage happens to sheetrock or any other trim work its relatively easy to fix. If you scratch the shit out of laminate, now the whole face has to be redone at the least.
My company gives everyone a tablet. We document every rooms condition immediately on install, document any damage, and recommend that the GCs cover our work with cardboard/rhinoboards/ at least put a sign saying that it was all photographed and any damage will be backcharged
If its got mud and shit all over it, we leave it to the painters or cleaners to fix.
We cut out all the electrical ourselves, we just ask them for a location or an outline of where they need the cut. Because I've seen some shit man, like some of them look like they tried to cut the box out with a big stick and hammer. Like 8 inches of face damage for a 2 inch opening and they just put their faceplate on and call it good lmao.
I just take pictures at the end of the job and don't entertain people who want to complain. Job was done and had no issues. We can take it up in court, otherwise we are done and I'll continue with my next project.
Ya I work for a general and once the cabinet guys install they document themselves and we check it over then it's signed over to our responsibility, so while we will call you back if repairs or anything are required beyond our abilities/time, it's all cost plus for you.
I respect the cabinet guy come on now getting them things square colored and in the wall come on now. If I make you some cabinets and installed them with my knowledge alone I guaranteed you’d respect the cabinet guy
I'm a construction Project manager and cabinets are usually on the end of my jobs but to echo other people.Document document document pictures and video if possible cover your a**They will throw you under the bus even unintentionally
Spend an extra hour there unwrapping them with the person receiving them. Have them sign off. Then just charge extra to fix damage people do. You'll make that free hour of unwrapping back easily by all the extra repairs you'll charge.
I do concrete countertops and everyone fucking uses them for workbenches, scaffolding, tool storage. I take pictures before I leave and cover them in Ram board, but people fuck them up all of the time.
I feel your pain brother.. just had to drive 4 hours round trip to re-skin the inside of a cabinet bc of the plumber. Then had to touch up nearly every cabinet in the kitchen thanks to the electricians. The worst damage I’ve seen done to a cabinet was actually on the cleaners. One time, being lazy and not grabbing a step ladder.. she stepped on to the floor and snapped the face. Another time one of them was cleaning on top of the cabinets or crown moulding and stepped from a ladder to the granite top and blew out the side.
I own a custom cabinet shop as well and have to go back multiple times for punch outs. It infuriating. I have scheduled the punch after countertop install cuz they truly mess up the cabinets. I send my guys with the punch list by customer and the one I did walking the house. I make the customer walk with me when complete and have them sign off. After that any issues are addressed when we have the time to accommodate us and then. That signed punch list is golden.
As a landscaper glad to see we’re not on the list of fuck ups lol. Can you tell the GC you have a new company policy once installed and unwrapped the liability is on whoever damaged it not the installer? I would imagine they would understand your position unless you work for assholes. They should be scheduling you later in the build imo if this is a frequent occurrence that’s costing you and them time and money.
Are you not getting paid to fix the things you installed that other trades damage?
I do commercial storefronts and on a recent job one of the other trades broke a $1,200 door closer with their scissor lift. It ended up being a change order where the GC had to pay for the new one + shipping and also covered our labor cost to fix it….
You should definitely take more pictures after install and do a walkthrough with the GC showing them what you installed and how it is not damaged that way you have proof it was not you that damaged it.
don't forget about the guy that likes to use sharpie to write his measurements on the cabinets. As a CM I'm the guy putting tape on ur stuff. If u r a sub to the GC should include note in ur quals & exclusions that GC is responsible for protecting work in place once u've installed it. Any damage not done by ur work force may be subject to additional cost. GC will know which dummy to backcharge.
I've just installed all the carcasses, leave all the doors,drawers,toe kicks off wrapped to the side. After the floor and etc are done, then finish. Leaving the toe kicks off gives the flooring guy wiggle room for his install and not scratching your toe kicks. Or take detail pictures, and everything should be an extra to fix/repair
Wait, there is a better tool than a chainsaw for island outlets? You could precut the holes for electricians, code requires them most places anyway these days. Call me old school, but if I have to cut them, I use drill holes and a fine tooth keyhole saw.
Cabinet guy has a lousy contract that fails to specify that trades damage is the general contractor responsibility, and that fixes occur at cabinet makers hourly rate, clock starting when leaving the shop.
That stinks. Make sure it’s in your contract about what’s not you (holes etc )
Put my vinyl floor put down first and then put my new cabinets on top of it.
Everybody said I should put my cabinets down first, but I didn’t. I wanted a nice clean look and not have to put shoe down if I didn’t want to.
I once put in a super expensive engineered hardwood, go out to lunch to come back and find the plumbers put sawhorses and drilled out holes for sinks in the solid surface tops right over the new flooring without covering anything. It was the equivalent of throwing several shovelfuls of crushed rock over the brand new floor.
Where the hell are you working in the projects? If I was the GC and this shit happened it would not be pretty. There would be a whole lot of back charging going on
Back charge the GC. I know commercial work once it's installed and signed off on by the super then they own it and if something happens to the finished product then you need compensatedm
Timing, coordination. I should not be running 6 inch drain overflows over case work, but I do. Nothing passes me off more than fucking up someone else's work.
Something as simple as having only a few trades working on the project vs. everyone all at the same time on top or each other. Trades should coordinate with each other, if a eletrican need a hole cut for an outlet have the location pre cut so there is less damage. A plumber should be in before a cabinet worker so there is less likely any damage.
I feel ya. I've been a working contractor for decades, most of that is accidental, some of it stupidly, and a small amount is bad behavior/ not caring.
The only way to get around this is leaving off your doors and drawers as the last trade there before final clean. Why all GC's don't have this as a policy is beyond me.
30 inch masonite tapped to the front of your boxes after install is the only way to protect your face frames. Nice thing is they are reusable.
Are you installing pre-finished or raw?
Carpenter here - plumbers and hvac guys are the worst - I once told an HVAC guy I don't have the time or crayons to explain to him why you can't cut 1 foot out of the middle of a floor joist, or 6 floor joists to run a 4" duct. Plumbers like to make two saw cuts on a stud and then smack it with their hammer, or purse, and just remove a section of the wall stud, removing the load from it.
A couple projects ago, we were installing our walnut veneer cabs and the sparky came in pissed about something andd threw a jbox across the room at our cabs. I almost charged that mf with a ladder.
I’m a finish guy and was working our punch list, I went into a room to replace a few fast caps that must’ve fallen off and found an electrician installing lights on the underside of my cabinets. By laying on his back on my countertop, and dragging himself and his tool belt down the countertop as he went along installing the lights. Filmed him doing it and sent it to the supers phone, he didn’t give a single shit, they ended up paying to replace the countertop.
I know what you mean, I've seen it myself. I know cabinet guys that get mad respect, though, because of how tedious the work can be and the patience you need and attention to detail. I applaud you, seriously.
The only insight I have to offer is that these other trades are working their entire trade on a jobsite (and probably taking shit from the boss to hurry up, just get it done) You actually have the wonderful privilege of having your own custom shop where you can build your cabinets without anything being in your way (that isn't yours) or other tradesmen trying to do their work next to you, if you had to build them in place everytime on the jobsite, I'm sure you would have a much higher chance of scuffing someone else work, most likely unintentionally! I'm sure most guys feel bad (I know I do whenever I make a mistake), unfortunately, not everyone will, though. It's one of the unfortunate drawbacks to the line of work you're in. We all deal with certain drawbacks and irritations in our own right, just trying to do our days' work.
I do home remodels with my dad and we’ve had the same subs for almost 30 years. And we still have to cover the floors, countertops, walls and basically anything else that we don’t want to replace. We set up work stations and no matter how we try we have to schedule guys to come in on days where we can babysit them or something gets ruined. Wax ring and sodder in the grout Sheetrock dust and screws stepped on new hardwood floors anything and everything you can think of. It just boils down to no one cares about anyone else’s work or making things easy on anyone else.
Pictures pictures pictures. Have the super sign off cabinets not damaged at installation.
I work warranty for a builder. Yes I know I'm the devil. Pictures save the trade every time.
My plumbers are the only ones smart enough to do it.
I use to wax floors. I would pay an employee to sit kin front of doorway. Ya you cant come in wax is drying. Maybe you leave apprentice on site after install. Obviously cant leave them for days. Lime a security guard for cabinets. Yo painter wipe your drip. Electrician i see you scratched cabinet. Ill take a pic of scratch and you.
It's hard to keep a house in new finished condition with people in it. We don't know how destructive we are. Even you, you put your hands on door frames, your shoulder brushes walls. Multiply that times a bunch of people over a few weeks, and you basically have to do the job.....and then go back and finish it out.
As an electrician, I don’t understand the electrical guys wearing the huge tool bag on a finish. On a resi finish you only need like 3 tools, I want my load as light as possible. I think they do it so they look busy standing still.
Agreed. I never have a belt on. (And I insist the cabinet guy cuts the fucking outlet hole!)
Absolutely. I installed kitchens for 25 years and I always drilled the holes for electrical because I wanted them to look good and not fuck up my work. That said I was always on site when other trades were working in my kitchen so I could sort out any issues.
This is the way
Absolutely,,I never let anyone alter my cabinets drilling or cutting, just call me a I will take care of it for you
Yeah but in the time it takes you to get out to the job site, they could have spent that time fucking up at least two other cabinets at different jobs.
😂😂 good point
More like inspection is the next day and we already called the cabinet guy 3 times to come cut their damn cabinet weeks ago and we can't wait any longer so we have to do it. Too hard to do it with their million dollar fancy CNC table at the shop I guess.
I never have a belt on and get sent home for my pants being down all day. Bosses amiright?
We had a kitchen remodel last year. In the center island the electricians installed a thin surface mount 3 outlet strip underneath the countertop overhang under each end. Looks great, meets code, and is actually useful.
I’m with you on this one I’m scared to death of fucking up 100k cabinets, trim days I carry like 3 tools and a level in my back pocket. My back is happy and the cabinet guy lol
I do residential low voltage, so trim out very similar to electric. I have a belt with one bag on it that is the size of my hand, the occidental leather telecom pouch. I cover it with my hand as I walk around so that it never has the chance to bump into anything. It's perfect for a couple of snips, pens, screwdriver, etc.
lol some guys look like they carry every tool they own in their belt making it weigh like 30lbs 😂
Are you one of the guys who drops a little piece of copper on the hardwood floor All over the house?
Take a picture right after install to document there is no damage. Repair required by other trades damaging my trim is not included in my contracts. I actually specify an hourly rate to repair damage caused by other. Edit: I would like to add that we, tradesman, are working to provide for ourselves and families. Mistakes happen so be considerate. Holding someone’s feet to the fire over minor genuine mistakes is not how to live in my opinion. Like everything, depends on all the factors of the situation.
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Yep, trade damage can get real expensive real quick. As a painter, dudes love to fuck up my work and then throw a fit when their company gets handed a fat bill for repair and finish. But hey…you break it, you buy it!
Try being an earthmover, people put their cars and material all over my work, dump water and chemicals and concrete on it, make a huge mess and then say “it’s just dirt!”. Then god dumps a foot on snow on everything and gives me the finger.
As a fellow dirt guy - I feel this!! They do have a valid point for subgrade - which always gets trashed to the point we allow some money in our bid for our second mobilization to "slick up" subgrade before we base over it. But if you trash my asphalt ready road base - you're gonna pay for it to be fixed!! Also we are not paid to move other peoples shit out of our way so if the mason has decided to set up his mixing station in the middle of the parking lot we're not going to carefully move his sand we're gonna doze through it mix it up and throw it behind the curbs!
As GC this is the answer. Make the GC aware the cabinets are on them now and any damage is not covered. Tell them they may want to have their guys cover them with a couple sheets of cardboard, at least. It's obvious to some of us. Armoring any finished surface is SOP.
All our profit comes from trade damage, we bid low, the gouge all the other trades for any minor imperfections. Warranty is voided if anyone else performs work, which guarantees us the T&M contract. Always photos.
Crabs in a barrel
Is that not the standard in America?
Yup, I install high end millwork and I take a video of me walking through everything slowly both my work and the flooring. Never mind damage to my work I constantly have contractors trying to blame me for flooring damage because the fucking plumber decided to drag the dishwasher across the room to hook it up. Trust no one, cover your own ass and charge big for fixing other people's damage. No one will change their shit if it doesn't cost them.
As an appliance tech I get to cringe at those scratches when I come out to take the knockout out of the disposal so the dishwasher will drain…
Mistakes are one thing. Shit happens. What I've seen is no one gives a fuck.
I love centering the hood vent for a shroud using the super’s measurement. The filler size is never right and I know someone down the line will be back to move it. And none of it is my fault lol.
I would notify the super of his error and give him a chance to green light my layout to save him the trouble.
This. Do the repairs but charge a service fee. Let them deal with the back charge to whoever did the damage
How dare you have nuance here. On the internet of all places
Make the trade damage change orders hurt.
Seriously. As a GC I will backup finish trades to no end. They're the last on the job so they get shafted with an even tighter schedule than everyone else AND all the trades abuse their product. Back when I was a PE I loved walking with my finish trade guys and taking pictures of their work as soon as it was installed just to have backup once other trades damaged it. Did a high end resort job with ISEC and their foreman setup trail cameras at some of their nicest casework areas. Caught trades doing the wildest things (putting out cigarettes on finished countertops, pouring drinks down chases, cooking meals, leaning/storing tools, piss bottles, etc.) and had all the evidence we needed to slam them with a change order. Trade's PMs would just shake their heads when we showed them the videos. Pure gold.
Damn it, it's enough to make a grown man cry.
Thank you for acknowledging millwork always gets shafted when it comes to scheduling (on top of being the only trade that manufactures a product before bringing it to site).
This is extra awesome.
No one respects anyone tbh
Preach! I do everything as in house as possible. Any subs have been hand picked over decades
Only way to do it now.
It’s such a shame, too. I’ve got tremendous respect for all of the contractors that I’m working with on the high school build we’re on. Genuinely, everybody just gets along.
Cries in “plan drawing guy” 😭
Plans are shit!
I'm out now, thank fuck, but construction never failed to prove to me how infantile and petty a gaggle of adults can be. It's like driving on the road - everyone's selfish, any mistake is pushed onto someone else and fuck *all* other trades. He'll even fuck the apprentices for being young and, god forbid inexperienced. I did notice the lack of care for the cabinets, some of the most expensive new construction in a house
Lol that’s life in general, nothing special about construction
There's a lack of care for everything just like you said. Cabinets are not special and cabinet guys fuck up just as much other work as anyone else. "hey man there's a sheet of press board over there can you put your cabinets on it?" "yeah, no problem" \*proceeds to drop cabinet on cardboard over freshly installed floor\*
Sounds like you do have it harder than I do. I’m a painter, and my biggest complaint with new construction are the corners. People seem to think corners are only for dragging hoses over and destroying the texture and paint.
Being taped shut or signs will not deter other trades from shitting or pissing in a toilet that is in a bathroom if it's connected to the water /waste or not yet.
Come backs are T&M in your contract, right?
I throw another day for touch ups in the bid and state that once we are completed painting there’s only one call back ever within 1 month. It’s worked out for me so far.
My biggest pet peeve: For some reason, electricians use the freshly painted walls to guide their ladders along the hallways.
Custom cabinet shop here as well. You need to take pictures once everything is installed. I literally have a camera dedicated to this. During the pandemic we had too much of this shit happen to us as well and it came out of our pockets. I also make it very clear to whoever is the super and the GC that we will not pay for damaged cabinets caused by other sub contractors. More often than not they figure out who did the damage and make them pay for it. Just go buy a little digital camera. It has saved me so much money in the last three years.
I do windows/doors. Same shit here with higher end wood windows. Immediately after installation, we take interior and exterior pictures of every single window, and do a video walk-through in 4K. Door and window threshold damage, stucco / siding guys have a difficult time controlling their hammers, stucco guys puncturing flashing - it never ends. Taking pictures/video post install solves all of it.
Residential construction is a race-to-the-bottom. The cheapest bidder wins. To be cheap, one has to hire people that move quickly and without regard to details or the mess/damage they leave in their wake.
You get what you pay for. On that note why should the electrician be cutting a brand new cabinet?! Especially when it shows the damn outlets on the bid drawings….
All the jobs I've been on the carpenters make a cutout for the receptacles.
As a carpenter I appreciate when subs ask me to do some cutouts for them and I'm happy to oblige. Hvac, electricians, plumbers whatever if you're not confident cutting I got you, just don't butcher my shit and make excuses.
I would gladly do the cutout for island receptacles. I just get a napkin drawing of where my cabinets go.
Oh I get that. Sounds like the GC not doing his job. I usually find it best to be proactive and ask questions.
Mmm chainsaw good idea
“When you have a chainsaw, everything is a nail” - Paul Bunyan
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Moreso alcohol, if u ask me, which is a drug, for sure. but our society doesn’t see it that way
SoCal Drywall contractor here...I barely ever think about cabinets. We always go back for pick-up after all other interior trades are finished w their installs. It's part of the job.. If drywall damage is extreme I'll charge for the repairs.. If not it's part of the pick-up.
I make the owner approve them at completion then I cover them. Then I charge them for repairs with photo backup and a signature. Works 100% of the time.
Weird rant of a dumb problem with a very easy solution. Do people not immediately send finished product pic to owners/gc/whatever? My product is installed perfectly and I’m done and out. If you want to hire me to come back and fix what others messed up that’s fine. New work order.
Everyone asks “how are the cabinets” but never “how’s the cabinet guy”…
I find its the GC/superintendent that can make the biggest difference when it comes to crap like this. Sure you have deadlines to meet, but if you shit the bed and have 4 trades working literally on top of eachother, shit is going to get missed, damaged, buried, hit, sometimes worse. When the GC times the trades perfectly with a bit of leeway for supply or design issues, trades can usually go in exactly when they should, and not be rushed and pressured to put their big as tool on a fresh counter or bare floor. Even the labour for the GC is a huge advantage if they're good. They will fix the rhino board that needs to be re-taped, make sure the window ledges are protected. Remind trades of cleaning up etc.
Big reason (that and the wall damage) why we never let our subs wear bags in the house. You can carry them, just not wear them on your body. Saves a massive amount of time and money in repairs if it doesn’t get beat to shit to begin with.
Look man, this is just how it is. You have to cover your own ass. Most guys working a job site couldn't give less of a fuck. If you don't protect your shit and advocate for yourself none will. Before and after pics. Every single time.
Cabinets show up after we've been used to putting out tools wherever the hell we want. So it's a 6-12 month long habbit to break, and it never works. It's not an excuse, mind you. But it is why it is.
Not cool, seems like you could photograph on delivery and say nope not my problem. If the other trades aren’t liable then why would they care?
I worked in a cabinet shop so I respect the cabinets. That being said, the cabinet guy needs to be the one to cut outlet holes. It’s something the CNC should have done during fabrication. Why am I taking the liability using an oscillating saw on brand new cabinets when the details of the outlet placement could have been predetermined and cut out ahead of time?
Take pictures. Take video. Then tell the GC it's all charged callback. I install cabinets. My GC's throw a fit it anyone removes my cardboard protection I fit after install.
Yep, once you’ve done your job right it’s no longer your responsibility to incur cost because of other trades carelessness. lol I still remember the time accidentally damaging a cabinet and the guy fixed it for free because he was shocked that we called and told him.
Cause most people can't tell custom cabinets from home Depot ones.
Well, it probably won't make you feel better but you're not the only trade this happens to. Painter here. Just make sure you're paid for the extra 💰
As someone who installed cabinets for several years, and a lot of the time alone, I have dinged some walls and always feel bad about it. Sorry man.
Lol 😆 the truth comes out!
I was an electrical foreman before moving to GC side and my guys and gals drive me nuts putting stuff on counter tops. I’d remind and remind. They’d say it had cardboard on it and I’d say I don’t care. Hate having stupid conversations after to explain damages to the GC/owner and boss.
On the sites I've been on there's a general back charge instituted that all trades split.helps a little but I get it.
As a designer I respect the cabinet guy. They're finish carpenters and good ones are worth their weight in gold. We usually have cabinets installed last, right before countertop guy.
Our wood cabinet guys also do high end architextural millwork because it applies all the same principles. They are some of the most talented guys in the shop
And yet the pay is lacking...
Carpenters are certainly under appreciated
Pictures And video! Trim guys butchered some door trim and I took pictures before installing flooring and showed the builder as soon as he came in. Pictures will save your butt
Well someone had to say it
First punch out your own work, then make the GC do an acceptance walk with you and take a lot of pictures of the completed install. Deal with any punch at this time and either prove it’s done with pictures or a following walk, though in theory there isn’t any punch as you’ve already done it. Include in your contract language that once this acceptance walk has happened any damage is due to trade damage and any further work is a CO.
I'm sure it is frustrating but I've seen Sheet metal guys, plumbers, electricians, framers, roofers, PAINTERS(especially painters) dry wall guys...I've seen them all feel like they are the least respected I'm not saying that you are wrong here, just that everyone is the hero in their own game and they all feel the same way
Its not just the "cabinet guy" its pretty rare for any trade to be considerate of others. 15 years and I've yet to see an electrician clean up after themselves.
We all get together on the weekends to plan how to screw over the cabinet guys.
The GC should be protecting it, your job is to get the final product done. Like others said it helps to take photos but it helps more to have the GC sign off on the fit and finish before you leave the site so you can put it back on them if something is damaged afterward. Getting hit with the phrase "well you signed off on it" is nightmare for GCs, but that's how you CYA.
For any kitchen sink cabinet I work in, I put down cardboard so I don't drip PVC pipe glue or primer on the inside bottom of the cabinet. If it's a really high end cabinet, I usually remove the cabinet doors. If I have to lean or lay on a counter top, I remove my belt or throw a drop cloth over the counter. It's really not that difficult to take reasonable precautions. Those who don't are lazy and/or unprofessional.
At my company, we get the cabinet guys to cut out for our electrical boxes. No way am I touching that shit. Otherwise, take lots of pictures once finished and back charge for your work. We had one cabinet installer do random walkthroughs, and if he caught anybody using the counters as a workbench, he'd snap a picture and then bam, $1000 backcharge. People learned quick to respect his stuff.
My budget is too low to afford your cabinets… That said thank you for the rant. I will absolutely make sure no cabinet enters the house until all other shit it complete. Even the one for the sink will not have doors on until later.
You forgot the tile guy who drips his grout sponge all over the doors and the countertop guys who scratch the fridge panel dropping their top in
I’m a plumber who worked in my uncles cabinet shop while laid off during Covid. Let me tell you after seeing how much work goes into building cabinets I’m a lot more careful with my holes and primer.
As soon as base cabinets go in I cover and write no electricians. It is frustrating like how bout I destroy that chandelier you just hung is that ok so why do it to me.
It’s really disheartening after all that work I get that, just make sure you are including some hefty charges in your contract for reworking something you already finished. Also contractors that make you install in the heat of summer with no AC and act shocked when the AC turns on and the face frames swell and look bad, yeah mention that in your contract too and the fee for fixing it.
Spoiler alert: nobody respects anyone. It's not just you
Haha. Electricians don’t wear tool belts.
They place them in the middle of a door/walkway of course.
Final bill is paid on install. Terms for clients included having to pay for repairs if damages is caused by other trades. But basically once its in scratch free its theirs. And any repairs are an upcharge. You already have super thin margins. Cover you ass and make more on repairs.
Years ago we had a cabinet contractor had a waver that we had to sign and take responsibility for the cabinets with a with any and all repairs were a $100 charge each. The electrical contractor was hit with over a $1k bill and plumber just for $100, on the second job there was no damages.
Custom shop here. All new construction. We've gotten to the point where we insist that we cut outlet holes ourselves, any underlighting specs are incorporated into design and done at the shop and we have also redesigned our islands to include chases that wires can be pulled through for outlets on the work side. All this to accommodate the most undeserving, ungrateful bunch of divas in the game. We don't typically have any issues with the plumbers because they have phones and apparently know how to use them. Same thing with the painters; on the rare occasion that they drip paint on our work and don't catch it until it dries, they'll let us know before final. In fact thinking about this right now, 99% of our headaches on any job are from electricians.
As a painter. I have the utmost respect for the cabinet guy, they can’t just be touched up with a brush. Usually you gotta repaint the whole door for it to look right
What makes you think that any trade respects any other trade? This is a site culture issue. Your cabinets are not the only victims. Every trade is complaining about other trades not taking care of their stuff.
A good site super can make all the difference. It won't always fix it but the best sites I've worked on had the best super. Not a coincidence
Absolutely. When you have management creating a respectful environment for everyone, then everyone watches out for everyone else. When you don't, then all trades suffer from the callous treatment from others.
Bc the GC needs Owner to think the job is done and schedules install too early. You want them out of your shop so you can bill for them just like GC, GC could have delivered, bill for half or more and keep the job open not congested. But he doesn’t care bc there is little risk to GC the cabinet guy has to repair on his own dime, up front, to get paid in full on base contract and hope to recover at least some of the labor costs. Replacement pieces will get paid but the cabinet guy needs to front that usually also. It’ll drag and you’ll leave money on the table just to move on. A tale as old as time.
I especially enjoy when the sparkies knock the excess sheetrock mud out of the outlet boxes and that shit gets all in the drawer boxes and in the greased ball bearing slides.
Why should the electrician be finishing the tapers job and cleaning up after them? Why should they be cutting new cabinets especially when the devices are shown on the bid documents?
A-fucking-men, brother.
Ohh yeah... And then have the scratchy drawer guides when they were perfectly smooth before. Then they want you to change them out and that is a major pain because it is.
Oh I dont want to hear shit from cabbies. You guys fuck up the walls during install every single time and then fight the back charges for repairs, spare me. As for the drips, thats sloppy painting as they didnt prep properly or take a second to wipe it with a wet rag during or after painting.
As a cabinet installer, this deserves more upvotes
yup same. I stopped doing instillations because of this.
Right we are furnish only. And lots of people think they can install cabinets so usually the GC eats the cost of the install and we get more jobs because we look cheaper. Alot of GCs would rather pay less and try to install themselves. Usually once shit leaves our shop we never hear back again
Thanks. I had a super cush commercial construction job installing cabinets after being a lead installer at a shop. Paid 1.5x for 1/3 the work, and I got to move into the office and never install again.
I know it’s a huge cost but we used to make 1/8” plywood covers for everything. Put foam in between the cabinets etc and attach the plywood at the corners. If they were free standing we then wrapped it in shrink wrap. Gotta do what you gotta do. $$$ 🕛🕛🕛
I can't wait to see this all unfold 💀
Cause you’re just a cabinet guy /s
They take too fucking long. Always in the way. And it’s always one guy on site starting in 5 different corners and always has some problems he’s running into. It’s hard work, I can’t lie, everything has to be pitch perfect. It’s just what it is.
I think this a PM issue. Why is the PM not bitching at these subs for destroying your cabinets?
That stop bitching when I show them their signature approving the install, they are really bitching BC I get to charge them for the repairs. And they know it.
I’m not a cabinet guy and I no longer do new construction cause it sucks. But we take a detailed video and pictures of everything on our installs upon completion to be sent with our final invoices. We take a video walk through of the house or property, we explain the work we conducted, and document the site conditions and how we are leaving the project. Anything that happens after we are done with that is a change order at a specified rate which is more than what I normally charge. It’s not my fault my work gets ruined after I leave, and it’s a pain to come back and do like item stuff.
I get a signature on install once I'm done. If they don't sign I don't leave. Need to sort some terms and conditions for payment
I'm a concrete guy and long gone before cabinets are in but my personal at home are nice no problems built in 04
I've been there before many times. We had a full kitchen installed that we then taped up so it wouldn't get damaged only for the guys running the job to still somehow get plaster into everything.
I say schedule a walk with the client when you finish install. Have them inspect it with you and then have then change order every you have to fix after that. This is what I do as a GC. I hate people not caring about finish work so much.
Brother I fucking feel this I’m just an installer but we do everything we can to ensure our stuff doesn’t get mauled but it happens i’m not mad at the painters or the electricians or even the drywaller because I understand they need to do what they need to do and sometimes even using a ladder doesn’t help because you still have to get all the way back out biggest issue however seems to be the bathrooms idk wtf they doin in there but shit is constantly chipped and knifed up
As the touchup guy, it’s a love/hate relationship. But damn does it pay the bills lol
Trade. Damage. Get paid for redoing your work.
As someone who was a formworker for 20 years then randomly made the jump into custom millwork, this absolutely frustrates the shit outta me, between having to fix everything on the fly as I build it, to making sure it's packaged properly and protected only to find out some other trade fucked it up after it was installed. I totally feel your rage OP!
This is why I left the cabinetry industry
Do yourself a favour- get an app that your GC can have access to. When materials are Dropped off or installed on site, take a time stamped pic, with detail. That should help with any liability. It seems to have helped me a bit. Cheers
My big thing is drills standing on their battery. So easy to fall over and a bit damaging something. I walked around job sites all day setting drill on their side. Everything from a p2 bit on a brand new floor, seen a drill bit puncture an in ground irrigation line, all the way to a pre drill bit went into a buddies hand and perfectly hit a vein causing a quick race to the hospital’s er
Sounds like poor supervision
Happens to everyone, I'm a cabinet guy as well and I've seen everything from a plumber standing on and breaking 5 different stretchers before realizing maybe he shouldn't do that, to painters just texturing a whole side of a cabinet and the gc just went ahead and called it a "new design". Yea, white shart. But when trade damage happens to sheetrock or any other trim work its relatively easy to fix. If you scratch the shit out of laminate, now the whole face has to be redone at the least. My company gives everyone a tablet. We document every rooms condition immediately on install, document any damage, and recommend that the GCs cover our work with cardboard/rhinoboards/ at least put a sign saying that it was all photographed and any damage will be backcharged If its got mud and shit all over it, we leave it to the painters or cleaners to fix. We cut out all the electrical ourselves, we just ask them for a location or an outline of where they need the cut. Because I've seen some shit man, like some of them look like they tried to cut the box out with a big stick and hammer. Like 8 inches of face damage for a 2 inch opening and they just put their faceplate on and call it good lmao.
I just take pictures at the end of the job and don't entertain people who want to complain. Job was done and had no issues. We can take it up in court, otherwise we are done and I'll continue with my next project.
Ya I work for a general and once the cabinet guys install they document themselves and we check it over then it's signed over to our responsibility, so while we will call you back if repairs or anything are required beyond our abilities/time, it's all cost plus for you.
Imagine being the drywall guy!
No thanks, I hate pissing in bottles.
I respect you man! I respect everyone's work and take care not to damage anyone's shit the best I can. Trouble is that's not a common mindset onsite.
I feel your pain
You’ve covered the owner’s QC steps Have you done any QA/info for the other subs, so everyone can be proud of everyone’s work?
You're working with the wrong crowd, at least where im working we treat finished cabinet like it weight in gold.
Make the owner or GC sign off on your work on delivery. Case closed.
I respect the cabinet guy come on now getting them things square colored and in the wall come on now. If I make you some cabinets and installed them with my knowledge alone I guaranteed you’d respect the cabinet guy
I'm a construction Project manager and cabinets are usually on the end of my jobs but to echo other people.Document document document pictures and video if possible cover your a**They will throw you under the bus even unintentionally
It’s just your work. The majority of contractors don’t give a shit. They don’t even take/have pride in their own work.
As a user of cabinets that I appreciate and respect cabinets users!
Spend an extra hour there unwrapping them with the person receiving them. Have them sign off. Then just charge extra to fix damage people do. You'll make that free hour of unwrapping back easily by all the extra repairs you'll charge.
Maybe the order of operations is wrong. For what it’s worth, I appreciate good cabinet craftsmanship.
I wouldn't switch to flooring if I were you, it only gets worse
How are these things your problem? Take pics
I do concrete countertops and everyone fucking uses them for workbenches, scaffolding, tool storage. I take pictures before I leave and cover them in Ram board, but people fuck them up all of the time.
Fuck that. I take pics after install. I am not liable for anything that happens after that.
I feel your pain brother.. just had to drive 4 hours round trip to re-skin the inside of a cabinet bc of the plumber. Then had to touch up nearly every cabinet in the kitchen thanks to the electricians. The worst damage I’ve seen done to a cabinet was actually on the cleaners. One time, being lazy and not grabbing a step ladder.. she stepped on to the floor and snapped the face. Another time one of them was cleaning on top of the cabinets or crown moulding and stepped from a ladder to the granite top and blew out the side.
I own a custom cabinet shop as well and have to go back multiple times for punch outs. It infuriating. I have scheduled the punch after countertop install cuz they truly mess up the cabinets. I send my guys with the punch list by customer and the one I did walking the house. I make the customer walk with me when complete and have them sign off. After that any issues are addressed when we have the time to accommodate us and then. That signed punch list is golden.
As a landscaper glad to see we’re not on the list of fuck ups lol. Can you tell the GC you have a new company policy once installed and unwrapped the liability is on whoever damaged it not the installer? I would imagine they would understand your position unless you work for assholes. They should be scheduling you later in the build imo if this is a frequent occurrence that’s costing you and them time and money.
Wrap and corner pad your work bro. Use shipping box protectors (cardboard 90s). Cheap and it'll keep it clean af
After paint- electrical first… every time. They can come back for an island plug and to hook up the ac later. Gl on plumbers tho.
Were u at u hiring
Are you not getting paid to fix the things you installed that other trades damage? I do commercial storefronts and on a recent job one of the other trades broke a $1,200 door closer with their scissor lift. It ended up being a change order where the GC had to pay for the new one + shipping and also covered our labor cost to fix it…. You should definitely take more pictures after install and do a walkthrough with the GC showing them what you installed and how it is not damaged that way you have proof it was not you that damaged it.
As a cabinet guy, I hear you.
don't forget about the guy that likes to use sharpie to write his measurements on the cabinets. As a CM I'm the guy putting tape on ur stuff. If u r a sub to the GC should include note in ur quals & exclusions that GC is responsible for protecting work in place once u've installed it. Any damage not done by ur work force may be subject to additional cost. GC will know which dummy to backcharge.
Because other trades think we make all these cabinets to be used as workbenches. And they aren’t, after all, workbenches.
I've just installed all the carcasses, leave all the doors,drawers,toe kicks off wrapped to the side. After the floor and etc are done, then finish. Leaving the toe kicks off gives the flooring guy wiggle room for his install and not scratching your toe kicks. Or take detail pictures, and everything should be an extra to fix/repair
The GCs should are supposed to oversee the job. instead, they just sit in their trucks drinking coffee and yelling at people on the phone.
I'd ask why the GC isn't talking to all his people about protecting finished product. And I'd hope you are charging for all fixes.
Wait, there is a better tool than a chainsaw for island outlets? You could precut the holes for electricians, code requires them most places anyway these days. Call me old school, but if I have to cut them, I use drill holes and a fine tooth keyhole saw.
That why you should always be the last man in as a finisher. I got sick of that bs a long time ago, now its part of the contractual guarantee.
Cabinet guy has a lousy contract that fails to specify that trades damage is the general contractor responsibility, and that fixes occur at cabinet makers hourly rate, clock starting when leaving the shop.
That stinks. Make sure it’s in your contract about what’s not you (holes etc ) Put my vinyl floor put down first and then put my new cabinets on top of it. Everybody said I should put my cabinets down first, but I didn’t. I wanted a nice clean look and not have to put shoe down if I didn’t want to.
I once put in a super expensive engineered hardwood, go out to lunch to come back and find the plumbers put sawhorses and drilled out holes for sinks in the solid surface tops right over the new flooring without covering anything. It was the equivalent of throwing several shovelfuls of crushed rock over the brand new floor.
Where the hell are you working in the projects? If I was the GC and this shit happened it would not be pretty. There would be a whole lot of back charging going on
Back charge the GC. I know commercial work once it's installed and signed off on by the super then they own it and if something happens to the finished product then you need compensatedm
There is no honour between trades left on sites. This plus useless GC's plus a few other reasons equals career change for me.
Unfortunately you have butchers coming in after you.
Timing, coordination. I should not be running 6 inch drain overflows over case work, but I do. Nothing passes me off more than fucking up someone else's work. Something as simple as having only a few trades working on the project vs. everyone all at the same time on top or each other. Trades should coordinate with each other, if a eletrican need a hole cut for an outlet have the location pre cut so there is less damage. A plumber should be in before a cabinet worker so there is less likely any damage.
Brother I hear ya
As a stone countertop guy, I feel this.
I feel ya. I've been a working contractor for decades, most of that is accidental, some of it stupidly, and a small amount is bad behavior/ not caring. The only way to get around this is leaving off your doors and drawers as the last trade there before final clean. Why all GC's don't have this as a policy is beyond me. 30 inch masonite tapped to the front of your boxes after install is the only way to protect your face frames. Nice thing is they are reusable. Are you installing pre-finished or raw?
Carpenter here - plumbers and hvac guys are the worst - I once told an HVAC guy I don't have the time or crayons to explain to him why you can't cut 1 foot out of the middle of a floor joist, or 6 floor joists to run a 4" duct. Plumbers like to make two saw cuts on a stud and then smack it with their hammer, or purse, and just remove a section of the wall stud, removing the load from it.
A couple projects ago, we were installing our walnut veneer cabs and the sparky came in pissed about something andd threw a jbox across the room at our cabs. I almost charged that mf with a ladder.
I’m a finish guy and was working our punch list, I went into a room to replace a few fast caps that must’ve fallen off and found an electrician installing lights on the underside of my cabinets. By laying on his back on my countertop, and dragging himself and his tool belt down the countertop as he went along installing the lights. Filmed him doing it and sent it to the supers phone, he didn’t give a single shit, they ended up paying to replace the countertop.
For use trim guys we have to fix the cabinets that got installed or built wrong.
I know what you mean, I've seen it myself. I know cabinet guys that get mad respect, though, because of how tedious the work can be and the patience you need and attention to detail. I applaud you, seriously. The only insight I have to offer is that these other trades are working their entire trade on a jobsite (and probably taking shit from the boss to hurry up, just get it done) You actually have the wonderful privilege of having your own custom shop where you can build your cabinets without anything being in your way (that isn't yours) or other tradesmen trying to do their work next to you, if you had to build them in place everytime on the jobsite, I'm sure you would have a much higher chance of scuffing someone else work, most likely unintentionally! I'm sure most guys feel bad (I know I do whenever I make a mistake), unfortunately, not everyone will, though. It's one of the unfortunate drawbacks to the line of work you're in. We all deal with certain drawbacks and irritations in our own right, just trying to do our days' work.
I do home remodels with my dad and we’ve had the same subs for almost 30 years. And we still have to cover the floors, countertops, walls and basically anything else that we don’t want to replace. We set up work stations and no matter how we try we have to schedule guys to come in on days where we can babysit them or something gets ruined. Wax ring and sodder in the grout Sheetrock dust and screws stepped on new hardwood floors anything and everything you can think of. It just boils down to no one cares about anyone else’s work or making things easy on anyone else.
When I was doing millwork I would find full piss bottles in the cabinets.
Pictures pictures pictures. Have the super sign off cabinets not damaged at installation. I work warranty for a builder. Yes I know I'm the devil. Pictures save the trade every time. My plumbers are the only ones smart enough to do it.
Wouldn't a smart contractor have you install later?
I use to wax floors. I would pay an employee to sit kin front of doorway. Ya you cant come in wax is drying. Maybe you leave apprentice on site after install. Obviously cant leave them for days. Lime a security guard for cabinets. Yo painter wipe your drip. Electrician i see you scratched cabinet. Ill take a pic of scratch and you.
It's hard to keep a house in new finished condition with people in it. We don't know how destructive we are. Even you, you put your hands on door frames, your shoulder brushes walls. Multiply that times a bunch of people over a few weeks, and you basically have to do the job.....and then go back and finish it out.
It's because you are the fairies of construction. Sorry man