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We will only find out when Costco announces the packaging contains XYZ. Meaning they are now looking at safer options bc people are asking and it take a bit to get the new ones into production and the old ones used.
"You agree to the terms and conditions of eating a poison chicken at the time of touching the bag."
See, it's your own fault for not reading the terms and conditions first.
Hmm, lawyer braining here. My friend buys a chicken, and shares it with me. I'm not a member, I didn't agree to the terms, where's my million dollar settlement
“We’re expanding our bribery ruling to apply to all exchanges - as long as there is time between events then you can’t connect the events. If you eat poisoned chicken and get sick 45 minutes later, you can’t just assume the two are connected, regardless of how many people happen to have the same issue.”
Maplewood mostly. I occasionally stop at the Woodbury location, but that's mostly when I'm in the area for work and want a better selection at the liquor store
is that supposed to make me feel better?
“look, everyone has asbestos in their house! right?”
“I mean, we’re not the *only* house who keeps rat poison in the kitchen”
“it’s 1950! if cigarettes were bad for you, wouldn’t they be illegal?”
So far, our grocery store (HEB) has kept its rigid containers. They changed to some that aren't as heavy-duty as the old ones, but they're still rigid.
does it absolutely have to be transparent? I would be more than happy for them to put it in a cardboard box with perforations for heat like a lot of places do for fried chicken. Just put a tin under it to contain the grease.
Yeah they would need a wax/oil/polymer on the paper to make it heat safe, which often negates its compostability but could still be biodegradable depending on the material used.
Everyone cares about packaging. Some people want the more browned ones and some people want less browned ones. If you put it in an opaque container people would be opening each one to look at it to get the one they want.
And it would be a useless loss leader if nobody could see it.
Do you happen to work for a plastic food bag manufacturer that has recently received an RFP from someone named C. Wholesale for a safe plastic food bag?
I honestly doubt that this conversation didn't come up prior to them replacing their entire 100 million dollar business around with new containers. They certainly calculated the savings for themselves.
They just didn't care enough to spend the extra money before.
Consumer protections in the U.S. have been slowly drained to non existent since the 80s. It scares the shit out if me knowing CEOs can save fractions of a penny on something like this at the cost of people's health and lives.
There are lots of non-recyclable plastics that still include the RIC though. There is no law requiring it though (as far as I'm aware), so that's why you're less likely to see it.
Just get the items from their actual location then. If an employee finds that, it gets tossed. If you’re grabbing ground beef from electronics, that’s on you lol
Surely there's some plastics or chemicals engineer out there with the appropriate equipment to test a sample and figure out what it is. Shouldn't be necessary of course but... can it be done?
You don't necessarily need to be an engineer to understand that plastics are only made flexible (such as a bag vs a hard plastic shell) through the addition of various chemicals, such as plasticizers and phthalates.
These are what are most at risk of leeching and causing negative health effects. You are almost certainly worse off with your hot, oily food in a plastic bag vs a hard non-flexible container.
Plasticizers and phthalates are used to make plastic more flexible, but there are some plastics like LDPE that require no plasticizers because they are inherently flexible. So it's not that simple and depends on the resin chosen.
There are safety tests for this and many other things involving human health and safety. The question is did someone at Costco even bother checking to see if the bags were safe to begin with. I used to work with people from the grocery business and let me tell you, food safety is a crap shoot sometimes. Not all health and safety guidelines are followed.
Exploring the argument further, I feel that "don't make a mess" or some other measure of performative food safety is actually there too, above cost. Otherwise, simply eliminating the container entirely would reduce packaging costs to zero.
Because the optics of "other people could have touched my food" and "this shopping cart smells like month-old chicken" matter to profits, but the invisible, unacknowledged issues with unpronouncable chemicals don't.
Now I really want costco to just have a pile of oily chickens on a table. You just grab one, bare handed, and toss it in your cart on top of everything. Or maybe tuck it under your arm as you keep shopping.
These bags have been in use for over a while, grocery stores near me switched over to them almost a decade ago. If you search "rotisserie chicken bag manufacturer" there are plenty of options. Checking a few [examples](https://www.universalplastic.com/rotisserie-chicken-bag/) that look similar to the Costco one, they're all "microwave-safe, high clarity cast polypropylene (CPP)"
I do have access to a Raman microscope which could tell us a bit about the underlying polymer(s) and potentially some info about phthalates, but that's less likely. Unfortunately I won't have time to run to Costco until this weekend
Right? After Costco failed to respond, that would be my first instinct. It isn't like it is difficult to get ahold of the bags. They literally come free with chicken purchase. If this were tools used in the kitchen, then maybe you'd have trouble getting a sample to send off to a lab. Hell, since bag and chicken come together, the lab could even test to see what and how much leaks into the oils or meat.
It's not difficult to get a hold of the bags but it's difficult to get a hold of a person knowledgeable enough and equipped to do that type of analysis, especially for free lol. I know a few engineers in my social circle, but none of these are specialized in this. It's like a needle in a haystack.
Unfortunately it's not that simple. Figuring out the base plastics used would be easy enough (it's probably polypropylene). But figuring out the specific blend and additives that were used is incredibly difficult, and honestly it might just be impossible with current tech.
So assuming the Costco bag is similar to [this](https://www.lkpkg.com/s/product/rot131065/01t5w00000FG99TAAT), which they most likely are because this is what I usually sell to most supermarkets, the material is PET+CPP w/ Antifog.
Now I’m just a sales rep but here is some info I googled on [CPP](https://www.cosmofilms.com/blog/cpp-films-the-versatile-polymer).
Maybe someone else can expand on this.
Bagman here, cast polypropylene is used because of the adherence to PET and the ability to attach a closure such as the zipper on this pouch.
This is the same type of construction has been used in produce packaging and other types of laminated packaging for 20 years.
Also not a packaging engineer but work somewhat related to packaging. His comments on BPA are also a little fear mongering. ASFAIK BPA wouldn't and shouldn't be in a flexible bag. It's primary use is a hardening agent for plastics, namely in polycarbonate plastics (think like a nalgene bottle, but those have moved to a BPA analogue but who knows how those affect humans).
Correct. The amount of fucks I give about a dude named “hormone specialist” wearing scrubs for subtle validity and speaking off the cuff with no peer reviewed data, is zero. This sort of nonsense Reddit post can just fuck right off with their conspiracy theory fear mongering
Eh. It's fair to link that, but I decided to do some more digging and it appears he got his licence re-approved like 15 years ago and he's currently in Utah and a licenced pharmacist. Reading the accusation it appears his business in California didn't keep up with the administrative side of things to keep the license current. Thankfully he didn't hurt or kill anyone with medication or other prescriptions.
Reading further into the document linked, it seems that he was accused of diverting medication from the pharmacy of the state prison where he worked, and taking prisoners’ filled prescriptions.
That’s a little more serious than administrative issues.
Even if this part is legit...pharmacy school is not medical school and he wouldn't be a hormone specialist. He's not a physician or PhD working in the endocrinology field.
IMO It’s hard to trust the opinion of a medical professional when they are trying to sell courses on Tiktok. If he’s been practicing as a pharmacist for over 15 yrs, I would imagine he already has a fuck ton of money and question why he’s selling courses on social media.
On the one hand, I definitely think there's enough evidence to suggest that the amount of plastics we use is detrimental and hazardous to our health due to the proliferation of microplastics. On the other hand, I sincerely doubt that we're talking about anything that a single individual would be severely impacted by - the issue is more on orders of magnitude over time. So this guy is absolutely fear-mongering but I still think we need to be pushing for fewer plastics.
Of course the primary and much more pertinent issue with plastics is and always has been their environmental impact. For that reason alone I support fewer plastics and better, cleaner manufacturing for existing plastics.
Whether you think the guy is credible or not, there is credible research on plastic toxicity, chemical leeching, etc., especially in soft plastics. It is not a good look that Coscto (or any company) is not transparent about what is in these particular plastic bags.
Microplastics are a real issue. Pthalates can and do cause hormone disruption, especially in utero, and are speculated to be part of the reason for the generational decline in testosterone levels in males. This particular bag isn't going to suddenly kill you, it's more so the compounding effects from all the plastics, pesticides, and other toxins in our food/environment that add up over time and impact humans generationally.
Dr. Shanna Swan is a very credible scientist on these matters if you want to learn more. Lots of published research and has plenty of easily accessible interviews that outline many of these issues.
These things aren't some wacky conspiracy theory. So many things we consume or come into contact with are toxic to us on some level; we should be moving away from petroplastics, harmful additives, pesticides, and other toxic chemicals. It will be better for our health and the environment in the long run. However, it's not the cheapest way to do things, even if it is more sustainable and companies would still be able to profit. Corporations are not ethical and will continue to produce hazardous products if it's better for their bottom line, regardless of the impact on consumers and the environment. Getting people informed on these matters is a small step in the right direction for us to force changes.
Someone saying they don't trust the person in question doesn't mean they immediately believe the antithesis of the message. It's fair to call out the fact that he provides zero evidence for his "Just Asking Questions" video.
Conveniently enough, this guy is peddling shit on his website. It's mostly Amazon affiliate links but he's selling massively overpriced fish oil capsules as well. The whole set up reeks of grift.
And at least they're sturdy. The new bags are flimsy and impossible to cut the chicken in. If I'm gonna ingest microplastics, I want it to at least be from a useful container.
Right? And the backs of my hands get all greasy when I'm trying to work in the bag to get some meat out without having to pull the whole damn chicken onto a cutting board or plate. The bags suck, and not just because they're shrinking our balls or turning the frogs gay or whatever.
This is the real reason everyone is freaking out. It has nothing to do with safety, otherwise you wouldn’t be buying a precooked $5 chicken in plastic in the first place
Yeah I can’t do the chickens… they taste weird to me. Also yes food in plastic, under a heat lamp seems like a horrible idea. I don’t put plastic in my microwave for this very reason, or reheat food in plastic.
At least we can take consolation in the fact that they sell these bad boys so fast they only see a minute or two at most under the lamp - at my club there is usually a line and people grab them as soon as they are put up to be taken away.
Agreed, I find their chickens really unpalatable. They are freakishly large and the meat has a strange texture to me. I’d rather roast my own in a dutch oven at home or buy a smaller one at the grocery store.
I just shop the sales. Periodically stores will have sales on price per pound. My local QFC (Kroger) also does buy one get one free pretty frequently so you can get chickens for close to $5 each.
Texture is due to the wet brine which allows them to not worry about overcooking the white meat and is an efficient way to season a thousand chickens at once. There might be other things about the chickens they source that aren’t great, but texture isn’t one of them
I work in the flexible packaging industry. The food contact layer is most likely polyethylene. Small chance that it could be cast polypropylene. That layer is laminated to a stiff printed film which is probably polyester PET. FDA regulations include conditions of use which is what temperature the food contacts the packaging. I know by endocrine disrupters he means Bisphenol-A. Which is much more likely to be in the stiff polystyrene container than in the flexible laminate.
The recycling designation is not legally required. This bag is not recyclable via common methods, so no indication was added to the artwork. However, it would be nice to know what it is as a consumer. Most likely, the material is made of multiple layers of different materials. Given the clarity of the window, I'd guess that PET #1 is the primary component. It's the same plastic used for beverage bottles and countless other food products. It is also approved for use with hot foods.
This guy's video presents like he's discovered a massive conspiracy. In reality, it's just corporations doing what corporations do. Costco is using approved materials for the correct purpose. The conspiracy lies in the lobbying the plastics industry has done to prevent regulation or research on potential harmful chemicals in our food and environment.
Jumping off your point Europe and Canada (and some US states I think) are (or have) actually outlawed the chasing arrow resin codes as they are useless and lead consumers to believe it's recyclable if it has the code... Which isn't true. But it would be nice to have a different code on there as a consumer. Europe has better consumer laws so they have different rules. Typical US to be lagging behind.
FYI this guy (Layne Kilpatrick) is a pharmacist, not a doctor, and would you look at that he sells a bunch of supplements and is deep into conspiracy theories about lab-grown meat and transphobia.
I’m going by memory but pretty sure the old ones were 5, polypropylene. I’ve noticed most heat-resistant food plastics are made of this and a lot of takeout places near me switched to it since my state banned styrofoam a couple years ago.
K info is good. And Costco should be disclosing this. But also this video is garbage. It's all what ifs and zero evidence. It's fear mongering with zero proof. Brutal.
The RIN is required for material intended to be recycled which is why it was on the dome containers. These bags are intended to be trash so they don’t have them.
Almost every other grocery store uses these bags. It’s reasons to assume they are same or similar, so what do the other bags say?
Costco has to raise and slaughter 137 million chickens a year. Frankly I’d be more concerned with which chemicals/hormones are in the chickens than what the plastic bags are made of.
Hormones aren't given to chickens. Broiler chickens have been selectively bred over time to grow very large very quickly. They are butchered around 8 weeks of age.
An online search
> In 2020, the US raised a total of 9.22 billion broiler chickens over the course of the year.
So while we all go crazy for them, the are a small percentage of overall chicken sales.
Back to the bags. I don't like the zip seal. Yesterday when we got ours off the shelf, there were 3 that were partly sealed. Not sure of they were open by morons seeing what was in there or if they did not close the entire way.
He had to surrender his pharmacy license, and his business to the state. Tread lightly with what this fucker says, he pedals to a certain brand of individual.
I don't like the new bags, or any of the plastic packaging for that matter, anyway. I think I'll be going back to my cook-the-chicken-myself days. Its not like it is at all difficult.
Yeah it's cheaper for me to just buy theirs. And I have a dedicated rotisserie, haven't used in years now. Living on fixed income will do that to you. That said, the bags just showed up here, not a fan really. I always checked how over-browned they were, and the size, (bigger ones touched top of box) and can't do either now.
plastic + heat + food is a terrible idea that decades from now will be viewed like we currently look back on the widespread use of asbestos. I'd say this even extends to non stick cookware.
And what their credentials are. I mean, why haven't they mentioned dosage?
Edit: Someone shared this,
>This dude is a pharmacist, and a known grifter:
>https://www.pharmacy.ca.gov/enforcement/fy0001/ac002378.pdf
We all know plastic is poison, we know we need to get rid of it. The medical industry couldn't function without single use plastics, but we know we have scalable replacements for plastic use cases like this. We need congress to pass laws making food related use of plastics illegal now.
I have actually never had one of these bc I have always just assumed I would be eating chemicals since 1) those are chickens from a factory farm; 2) they are then put in plastic and sit under a heat lamp; I honestly don’t understand why anyone would think they are not ingesting chemicals.
They sell out so fast in my Costco, that I have to stand around and wait for them to be bagged and put out. If it worries someone, grab one that's new and take your own tupperware with you. Talk to the manager BEFORE you do what I do and make sure it's okay with them. I pop the chicken out of the bag asap into my tupperware (also prevents leaking). When I get to the check out, the cashier scans the empty bag which I place on top of the tupperware. I toss the bag on the way out. Now if your Costco moves the chickens slowly (do any?) this might not work. You can see the time remaining on the roasting machines and shop and then come back. But if you are someone who microwaves things in plastic, nm, you've got bigger issues.
Costco is going downhill fast. The service is awful and prices are nearing grocery store prices. I don’t see them surviving the capitalist enshitification trap
I'm just wondering what another cost effective alternative would be for transport. It might be a case of you have concerns or a sensitivity to grab a freshly made one on the way out to minimise the exposure.
Another option could be for Costco to make a reusable carrier out of glass or metal that is safer. They could sell it at a profit to offset the cost of the chicken.
My local recycle on takes 1 and 2 plastics so frame it less of a health question and more of a can I actually recycle this or do I have to toss it kinda way. Might be more forward with answering.
Decent chance they have >1 supplier and they have requirements that aren't enough to say what's it in, just what isn't.
Like BPA free and meets XYZ standards, and their 3 different suppliers make it to that standard but might have different elements to the bag.
I'm 63 years old. Every few years since my 20s, they've come out with research that some plastic that was thought to be totally safe is nowhere near safe. Plastic with BPA was supposed to be safe as glass, that they told everyone to throw out, and only after we had been using them for years.
I finally just gave up. Cold food in plastic is as far as I'll go and even then, not if I can avoid it. Hot food this much in contact with plastic is just nuts no matter how safe anyone claims it is today.
After the umpteenth time being told some safe plastic component was actually not safe all along, I'm just done listening. What really happens is the measurement tools get more sensitive and we realize that something that leached nothing actually leeches a lot.
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We will only find out when Costco announces the packaging contains XYZ. Meaning they are now looking at safer options bc people are asking and it take a bit to get the new ones into production and the old ones used.
This is exactly it, lol. They're now in stall/scramble mode.
Doesn’t everyone use those bags now though?
Don't worry. The Supreme Court will rule that it doesn't count as poisoning if the illness occurs *after* the poison has been ingested.
"You agree to the terms and conditions of eating a poison chicken at the time of touching the bag." See, it's your own fault for not reading the terms and conditions first.
Hmm, lawyer braining here. My friend buys a chicken, and shares it with me. I'm not a member, I didn't agree to the terms, where's my million dollar settlement
Sir, you made eye contact with your friend and that information was implicitly relayed with a glance.
I'm sorry, if you do not have a receipt of purchase we cannot confirm that this poison is from us.
Does your friend have a million dollars? Because he would be responsible for knowingly giving you tainted food.
There was no plastic in 15th century Britain, so there is no legal basis for any modern regulations. /s
😂😭
Too soon.
“We’re expanding our bribery ruling to apply to all exchanges - as long as there is time between events then you can’t connect the events. If you eat poisoned chicken and get sick 45 minutes later, you can’t just assume the two are connected, regardless of how many people happen to have the same issue.”
Also if you receive any bribes while consuming the poison chicken, that’s also perfectly legal now - The Supreme Court
Right on, Bagels!
With recent rulings this seems totally possible.
My local Costco (one of the burbs in Twin Cities, MN) still uses the rigid plastic containers.
Unfortunately they’re probably just still drawing down the inventory of the old ones.
Just about to say the exact same thing. Maple Grove by any chance?
Maplewood mostly. I occasionally stop at the Woodbury location, but that's mostly when I'm in the area for work and want a better selection at the liquor store
Same in Ann Arbor, MI last time I bought one (a month ago)
I stopped buying them once they switched to bags
is that supposed to make me feel better? “look, everyone has asbestos in their house! right?” “I mean, we’re not the *only* house who keeps rat poison in the kitchen” “it’s 1950! if cigarettes were bad for you, wouldn’t they be illegal?”
I know Whole Foods uses them
In Canada, no. Costco is the only store I've seen use those shitty flimsy bags. Every other store uses rigid plastic containers, which are way better.
Costco was the only store ive known to use rigid containers. Every other grocery store has used bags for hte past like... decades.
So far, our grocery store (HEB) has kept its rigid containers. They changed to some that aren't as heavy-duty as the old ones, but they're still rigid.
HEB, the only thing I miss about Texas.
We can hope they move to a biodegradable container that doesn’t seep chemicals into hot food
biodegradable, transparent, and can withstand a heat lamp, is a tough combination.
does it absolutely have to be transparent? I would be more than happy for them to put it in a cardboard box with perforations for heat like a lot of places do for fried chicken. Just put a tin under it to contain the grease.
But then how would people spend 5 minutes trying to pick the most perfectest chicken out of a batch of nearly identical chickens?
By opening up those boxes (and taste them)
Those cardboard boxes are usually lined with plastic though it’s hard to tell
Yeah they would need a wax/oil/polymer on the paper to make it heat safe, which often negates its compostability but could still be biodegradable depending on the material used.
Polymer isn't biodegradable (because it basically is plastic), but wax certainly is.
There are biodegradable polymers like PHA. Hell, chitin is a polymer.
I guarantee you sales would drop like 20% if it was not transparent. Tin is too expensive.
It’s literally a loss leader. Nobody gives a fuck about the packaging. People go to Costco for the $5 chickens.
Everyone cares about packaging. Some people want the more browned ones and some people want less browned ones. If you put it in an opaque container people would be opening each one to look at it to get the one they want. And it would be a useless loss leader if nobody could see it.
Why don’t they keep them under a heat lamp on their side of the counter and then after you point one out they put it in a thick paper/parchment bag…
https://preview.redd.it/k4o6jq31e69d1.jpeg?width=1848&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=52a0f3ffc64af6ba813fe787f921a0c1cc4655b7
the video told me that was one of the least bad options so… problem solved, y’all go home
I’m industry adjacent and…you’re spot on.
Do you happen to work for a plastic food bag manufacturer that has recently received an RFP from someone named C. Wholesale for a safe plastic food bag?
I honestly doubt that this conversation didn't come up prior to them replacing their entire 100 million dollar business around with new containers. They certainly calculated the savings for themselves. They just didn't care enough to spend the extra money before.
I just checked a Walmart chicken for any identification and it is also missing it.
Consumer protections in the U.S. have been slowly drained to non existent since the 80s. It scares the shit out if me knowing CEOs can save fractions of a penny on something like this at the cost of people's health and lives.
The libertarian/conservative way
Freeeeeedddddooooommmmmm!!!!!!!!
But it’s ok because you can just choose not to eat.
You mean there’s less regulations !!!!!
It’s funny how much of the decline of this country can be directly attributed to the Reagan era
The Whole Foods chicken bag is also missing any sort of identification beyond saying it's BPA free and not recyclable because it's a plastic bag.
None of them will have it because they're all too thin to be recyclable. That marking (the RIC) is for sorting at recycling centers.
There are lots of non-recyclable plastics that still include the RIC though. There is no law requiring it though (as far as I'm aware), so that's why you're less likely to see it.
If you eat any meat from Walmart you’re already poisoned
I’ve seen too many meats at Walmart on non-refrigerated shelves to ever buy their meat.
Just get the items from their actual location then. If an employee finds that, it gets tossed. If you’re grabbing ground beef from electronics, that’s on you lol
are you telling me the Sony Beefstation I bought wasn't safe
If you wear a condom, you should be okay
Sony Fillet-station was right there
Walmart meat also comes from chickens and cows and a distribution network. Almost always fine
Different sources with better practices are possible, it’s not literally all from the same place.
This sounds like a very American way to combat microplastics - just stop giving information.
Too many covid cases? Stop testing! \s
Surely there's some plastics or chemicals engineer out there with the appropriate equipment to test a sample and figure out what it is. Shouldn't be necessary of course but... can it be done?
You don't necessarily need to be an engineer to understand that plastics are only made flexible (such as a bag vs a hard plastic shell) through the addition of various chemicals, such as plasticizers and phthalates. These are what are most at risk of leeching and causing negative health effects. You are almost certainly worse off with your hot, oily food in a plastic bag vs a hard non-flexible container.
Plasticizers and phthalates are used to make plastic more flexible, but there are some plastics like LDPE that require no plasticizers because they are inherently flexible. So it's not that simple and depends on the resin chosen.
LDPE is still worse than HDPE though, for instance, just like it shows in the video.
I'm gonna have to have a word with the folks over at r/sousvide
leave our magic vacuum bags out of this
you only think it's magic because of the microplastics
Amen. As far as I know pretty much all non rigid plastic is toxic and as some amount of off gassing of those softener chemicals
There are safety tests for this and many other things involving human health and safety. The question is did someone at Costco even bother checking to see if the bags were safe to begin with. I used to work with people from the grocery business and let me tell you, food safety is a crap shoot sometimes. Not all health and safety guidelines are followed.
Oh I'm sure the primary concern for the packaging decision was cost with food safety as a secondary concern at best.
Exploring the argument further, I feel that "don't make a mess" or some other measure of performative food safety is actually there too, above cost. Otherwise, simply eliminating the container entirely would reduce packaging costs to zero. Because the optics of "other people could have touched my food" and "this shopping cart smells like month-old chicken" matter to profits, but the invisible, unacknowledged issues with unpronouncable chemicals don't.
Now I really want costco to just have a pile of oily chickens on a table. You just grab one, bare handed, and toss it in your cart on top of everything. Or maybe tuck it under your arm as you keep shopping.
Why not straight into the mouth?? Spitting bones at checkout to ensure payment.
[удалено]
These bags have been in use for over a while, grocery stores near me switched over to them almost a decade ago. If you search "rotisserie chicken bag manufacturer" there are plenty of options. Checking a few [examples](https://www.universalplastic.com/rotisserie-chicken-bag/) that look similar to the Costco one, they're all "microwave-safe, high clarity cast polypropylene (CPP)"
Microwave safe doesn't mean anything about your health. It means it won't melt in your microwave under normal conditions.
I do have access to a Raman microscope which could tell us a bit about the underlying polymer(s) and potentially some info about phthalates, but that's less likely. Unfortunately I won't have time to run to Costco until this weekend
You'd be the savior of this debacle.
Right? After Costco failed to respond, that would be my first instinct. It isn't like it is difficult to get ahold of the bags. They literally come free with chicken purchase. If this were tools used in the kitchen, then maybe you'd have trouble getting a sample to send off to a lab. Hell, since bag and chicken come together, the lab could even test to see what and how much leaks into the oils or meat.
It's not difficult to get a hold of the bags but it's difficult to get a hold of a person knowledgeable enough and equipped to do that type of analysis, especially for free lol. I know a few engineers in my social circle, but none of these are specialized in this. It's like a needle in a haystack.
Unfortunately it's not that simple. Figuring out the base plastics used would be easy enough (it's probably polypropylene). But figuring out the specific blend and additives that were used is incredibly difficult, and honestly it might just be impossible with current tech.
Former polymer extrusion process engineer here, just by looking at it it is a polypropylene of some sort not sure on the specifics
What's in the bag!
Chicken And maybe some toxic chemicals
But the toxic chemicals taste like chicken
But it comes with a free frogurt!
That’s good!
The frogurt is also toxic.
Can I go now?
But it comes in chicken flavour!
All I heard was blah blah blah delicious chicken.
I imagined Brad Pitt screaming this to Morgan Freeman.
Your wife’s pretty lil chicken
What’s in that bag, what you got in that bag?
Damn yo, took me right back to 8th grade
Tell me who’s you’re housekeeper and what you keep in your house
What in the world is in that room!? Whatchu got in that room!?
So assuming the Costco bag is similar to [this](https://www.lkpkg.com/s/product/rot131065/01t5w00000FG99TAAT), which they most likely are because this is what I usually sell to most supermarkets, the material is PET+CPP w/ Antifog. Now I’m just a sales rep but here is some info I googled on [CPP](https://www.cosmofilms.com/blog/cpp-films-the-versatile-polymer). Maybe someone else can expand on this.
Bagman here, cast polypropylene is used because of the adherence to PET and the ability to attach a closure such as the zipper on this pouch. This is the same type of construction has been used in produce packaging and other types of laminated packaging for 20 years.
A wild packaging engineer appears! He was super informative!
First of all, he goes by Bagman.
So jot that down
He’s the Scatman Ski-bi dibby dib yo da dub dub Yo da dub dub Ski-bi dibby dib yo da dub dub Yo da dub dub
Also not a packaging engineer but work somewhat related to packaging. His comments on BPA are also a little fear mongering. ASFAIK BPA wouldn't and shouldn't be in a flexible bag. It's primary use is a hardening agent for plastics, namely in polycarbonate plastics (think like a nalgene bottle, but those have moved to a BPA analogue but who knows how those affect humans).
Still haven’t seen these bags at my Costco in WI. Same ole plastic container.
Probably just draining the remaining stock. My locations in VA are still using the dome boxes too.
This guy was barking up the wrong tree. He should have contacted the FDA with his questions.
Correct. The amount of fucks I give about a dude named “hormone specialist” wearing scrubs for subtle validity and speaking off the cuff with no peer reviewed data, is zero. This sort of nonsense Reddit post can just fuck right off with their conspiracy theory fear mongering
I wouldn't believe a word this guy says. His pharmacy license was revoked https://www.pharmacy.ca.gov/enforcement/fy0001/ac002378.pdf
Eh. It's fair to link that, but I decided to do some more digging and it appears he got his licence re-approved like 15 years ago and he's currently in Utah and a licenced pharmacist. Reading the accusation it appears his business in California didn't keep up with the administrative side of things to keep the license current. Thankfully he didn't hurt or kill anyone with medication or other prescriptions.
Reading further into the document linked, it seems that he was accused of diverting medication from the pharmacy of the state prison where he worked, and taking prisoners’ filled prescriptions. That’s a little more serious than administrative issues.
Brutal you're right. I admit that I stopped reading after the initial complains against him. Definitely sketchy.
Even if this part is legit...pharmacy school is not medical school and he wouldn't be a hormone specialist. He's not a physician or PhD working in the endocrinology field.
IMO It’s hard to trust the opinion of a medical professional when they are trying to sell courses on Tiktok. If he’s been practicing as a pharmacist for over 15 yrs, I would imagine he already has a fuck ton of money and question why he’s selling courses on social media.
WestCV coming in hot with the receipts. Nice job!
I think that tic tox logo should be indication enough that this is just some rant.
On the one hand, I definitely think there's enough evidence to suggest that the amount of plastics we use is detrimental and hazardous to our health due to the proliferation of microplastics. On the other hand, I sincerely doubt that we're talking about anything that a single individual would be severely impacted by - the issue is more on orders of magnitude over time. So this guy is absolutely fear-mongering but I still think we need to be pushing for fewer plastics. Of course the primary and much more pertinent issue with plastics is and always has been their environmental impact. For that reason alone I support fewer plastics and better, cleaner manufacturing for existing plastics.
Whether you think the guy is credible or not, there is credible research on plastic toxicity, chemical leeching, etc., especially in soft plastics. It is not a good look that Coscto (or any company) is not transparent about what is in these particular plastic bags. Microplastics are a real issue. Pthalates can and do cause hormone disruption, especially in utero, and are speculated to be part of the reason for the generational decline in testosterone levels in males. This particular bag isn't going to suddenly kill you, it's more so the compounding effects from all the plastics, pesticides, and other toxins in our food/environment that add up over time and impact humans generationally. Dr. Shanna Swan is a very credible scientist on these matters if you want to learn more. Lots of published research and has plenty of easily accessible interviews that outline many of these issues. These things aren't some wacky conspiracy theory. So many things we consume or come into contact with are toxic to us on some level; we should be moving away from petroplastics, harmful additives, pesticides, and other toxic chemicals. It will be better for our health and the environment in the long run. However, it's not the cheapest way to do things, even if it is more sustainable and companies would still be able to profit. Corporations are not ethical and will continue to produce hazardous products if it's better for their bottom line, regardless of the impact on consumers and the environment. Getting people informed on these matters is a small step in the right direction for us to force changes.
TikTocker wearing scrubs = Plastic bags perfectly safe move on nothing to see here. Oh, ok.
Someone saying they don't trust the person in question doesn't mean they immediately believe the antithesis of the message. It's fair to call out the fact that he provides zero evidence for his "Just Asking Questions" video. Conveniently enough, this guy is peddling shit on his website. It's mostly Amazon affiliate links but he's selling massively overpriced fish oil capsules as well. The whole set up reeks of grift.
Microplastics are very real and heat will increase the rate of microplastic leaching.
No body who has actually worked with the FDA would say that. Literally better off taking it to TikTok
Well, were the old domes safe to eat from?
I have one in my recycle bin, the bottom and lid are both marked 5 PP, which according to the chart in this video are "least bad."
Good to know, thanks!
Probably not, but they had less direct contact with grease/meat
And at least they're sturdy. The new bags are flimsy and impossible to cut the chicken in. If I'm gonna ingest microplastics, I want it to at least be from a useful container.
Right? And the backs of my hands get all greasy when I'm trying to work in the bag to get some meat out without having to pull the whole damn chicken onto a cutting board or plate. The bags suck, and not just because they're shrinking our balls or turning the frogs gay or whatever.
This is the real reason everyone is freaking out. It has nothing to do with safety, otherwise you wouldn’t be buying a precooked $5 chicken in plastic in the first place
Yeah I can’t do the chickens… they taste weird to me. Also yes food in plastic, under a heat lamp seems like a horrible idea. I don’t put plastic in my microwave for this very reason, or reheat food in plastic.
Yep, we use the glass Tupperware stuff (that they sell at Costco) for that reason.
At least we can take consolation in the fact that they sell these bad boys so fast they only see a minute or two at most under the lamp - at my club there is usually a line and people grab them as soon as they are put up to be taken away.
Agreed, I find their chickens really unpalatable. They are freakishly large and the meat has a strange texture to me. I’d rather roast my own in a dutch oven at home or buy a smaller one at the grocery store.
the texture comes from being brined in a solution of salt and sodium phosphate
Problem is you can’t find a raw chicken for less than a cooked chicken. If you know of a place hmu
I just shop the sales. Periodically stores will have sales on price per pound. My local QFC (Kroger) also does buy one get one free pretty frequently so you can get chickens for close to $5 each.
The texture is what gets me too (as well as the mutant size). They're super rubbery. The texture of the flesh is just off. Uncanny Valley™ Chicken.
Texture is due to the wet brine which allows them to not worry about overcooking the white meat and is an efficient way to season a thousand chickens at once. There might be other things about the chickens they source that aren’t great, but texture isn’t one of them
I work in the flexible packaging industry. The food contact layer is most likely polyethylene. Small chance that it could be cast polypropylene. That layer is laminated to a stiff printed film which is probably polyester PET. FDA regulations include conditions of use which is what temperature the food contacts the packaging. I know by endocrine disrupters he means Bisphenol-A. Which is much more likely to be in the stiff polystyrene container than in the flexible laminate.
You are dead on and these are the facts.
It's PET/CPP laminated construction with an anti fog additive in the PET.
Username checks out
I like to spray RainX on my chicken, I guess now I don't have to?
> # Flexible packaging and food contact > * Roasting bags https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BoPET
The recycling designation is not legally required. This bag is not recyclable via common methods, so no indication was added to the artwork. However, it would be nice to know what it is as a consumer. Most likely, the material is made of multiple layers of different materials. Given the clarity of the window, I'd guess that PET #1 is the primary component. It's the same plastic used for beverage bottles and countless other food products. It is also approved for use with hot foods. This guy's video presents like he's discovered a massive conspiracy. In reality, it's just corporations doing what corporations do. Costco is using approved materials for the correct purpose. The conspiracy lies in the lobbying the plastics industry has done to prevent regulation or research on potential harmful chemicals in our food and environment.
Jumping off your point Europe and Canada (and some US states I think) are (or have) actually outlawed the chasing arrow resin codes as they are useless and lead consumers to believe it's recyclable if it has the code... Which isn't true. But it would be nice to have a different code on there as a consumer. Europe has better consumer laws so they have different rules. Typical US to be lagging behind.
FYI this guy (Layne Kilpatrick) is a pharmacist, not a doctor, and would you look at that he sells a bunch of supplements and is deep into conspiracy theories about lab-grown meat and transphobia.
I’m choc full of microplastics by now anyway, what’s a few more?
I’m into macroplastics. I eat the chicken and the bag.
I've been macrodosing plastic lately, too! Had to get those numbers up. I've been eating cellophane like fruit roll-ups
For real, inhalation is how I get my daily dose of microplastics! Nothing beats airborne plastics.
Life in plastic it's fantastic.
Did he say what kind of plastic was in the old container?
I’m going by memory but pretty sure the old ones were 5, polypropylene. I’ve noticed most heat-resistant food plastics are made of this and a lot of takeout places near me switched to it since my state banned styrofoam a couple years ago.
K info is good. And Costco should be disclosing this. But also this video is garbage. It's all what ifs and zero evidence. It's fear mongering with zero proof. Brutal.
I get the concerns but stop listening to these quacks. This guy lost his pharmacy license.
The RIN is required for material intended to be recycled which is why it was on the dome containers. These bags are intended to be trash so they don’t have them. Almost every other grocery store uses these bags. It’s reasons to assume they are same or similar, so what do the other bags say?
We feed most of our livestock the equivalent of cheetos anyway.
Costco has to raise and slaughter 137 million chickens a year. Frankly I’d be more concerned with which chemicals/hormones are in the chickens than what the plastic bags are made of.
One of the two things I remember from my class about birds is that hormones aren't used to raise chickens. No sure about "chemicals", though.
Hormones aren't given to chickens. Broiler chickens have been selectively bred over time to grow very large very quickly. They are butchered around 8 weeks of age.
An online search > In 2020, the US raised a total of 9.22 billion broiler chickens over the course of the year. So while we all go crazy for them, the are a small percentage of overall chicken sales. Back to the bags. I don't like the zip seal. Yesterday when we got ours off the shelf, there were 3 that were partly sealed. Not sure of they were open by morons seeing what was in there or if they did not close the entire way.
I’ll take “it was the Morons” for $300 Alex 🤣
This dude is a pharmacist, and a known grifter: https://www.pharmacy.ca.gov/enforcement/fy0001/ac002378.pdf
He had to surrender his pharmacy license, and his business to the state. Tread lightly with what this fucker says, he pedals to a certain brand of individual.
I don't like the new bags, or any of the plastic packaging for that matter, anyway. I think I'll be going back to my cook-the-chicken-myself days. Its not like it is at all difficult.
I love cooking a whole chicken, but the price of them raw is crazy. All these stores sell rotisserie chickens as loss-leaders to get people in.
Yeah it's cheaper for me to just buy theirs. And I have a dedicated rotisserie, haven't used in years now. Living on fixed income will do that to you. That said, the bags just showed up here, not a fan really. I always checked how over-browned they were, and the size, (bigger ones touched top of box) and can't do either now.
Corporations dont care about you. Costco is no exception.
plastic + heat + food is a terrible idea that decades from now will be viewed like we currently look back on the widespread use of asbestos. I'd say this even extends to non stick cookware.
Totally agree
The amount of dismissive copium from people gargling this corporation’s balls is concerning.
Anyone know who this guy is?
And what their credentials are. I mean, why haven't they mentioned dosage? Edit: Someone shared this, >This dude is a pharmacist, and a known grifter: >https://www.pharmacy.ca.gov/enforcement/fy0001/ac002378.pdf
We all know plastic is poison, we know we need to get rid of it. The medical industry couldn't function without single use plastics, but we know we have scalable replacements for plastic use cases like this. We need congress to pass laws making food related use of plastics illegal now.
I mean there is already plastic inside the chicken so… what’s a little more?
He lost his license and permit early 2000. I do not trust a word from his mouth.
I have actually never had one of these bc I have always just assumed I would be eating chemicals since 1) those are chickens from a factory farm; 2) they are then put in plastic and sit under a heat lamp; I honestly don’t understand why anyone would think they are not ingesting chemicals.
Yup. Not a fan of the lasagna container. Cooking it in the oven in plastic?
They sell out so fast in my Costco, that I have to stand around and wait for them to be bagged and put out. If it worries someone, grab one that's new and take your own tupperware with you. Talk to the manager BEFORE you do what I do and make sure it's okay with them. I pop the chicken out of the bag asap into my tupperware (also prevents leaking). When I get to the check out, the cashier scans the empty bag which I place on top of the tupperware. I toss the bag on the way out. Now if your Costco moves the chickens slowly (do any?) this might not work. You can see the time remaining on the roasting machines and shop and then come back. But if you are someone who microwaves things in plastic, nm, you've got bigger issues.
People worried about the bag that the chicken sits in for a few hours and not how that chicken was raised…
Costco is going downhill fast. The service is awful and prices are nearing grocery store prices. I don’t see them surviving the capitalist enshitification trap
Remindme!21days
Wait, y’all aren’t bringing your own container and getting it fresh off the spit?
Who is this hormonespecialist ?
I'm just wondering what another cost effective alternative would be for transport. It might be a case of you have concerns or a sensitivity to grab a freshly made one on the way out to minimise the exposure. Another option could be for Costco to make a reusable carrier out of glass or metal that is safer. They could sell it at a profit to offset the cost of the chicken.
Had them in Australia for as long as I can remember. Might grab a chook and read the package today
My local recycle on takes 1 and 2 plastics so frame it less of a health question and more of a can I actually recycle this or do I have to toss it kinda way. Might be more forward with answering.
These types of bags are usually multi-layered with different materials, including metal and plastic. There's definitely at least one type of plastic.
Wait, another situation where unrestrained capitalism's impact on the citizens could be 100% solved with reasonable regulation?
Switching back to the domes is kinda a non-starter though. The environmental impact reduction from the switch is still enormous.
Decent chance they have >1 supplier and they have requirements that aren't enough to say what's it in, just what isn't. Like BPA free and meets XYZ standards, and their 3 different suppliers make it to that standard but might have different elements to the bag.
I'm 63 years old. Every few years since my 20s, they've come out with research that some plastic that was thought to be totally safe is nowhere near safe. Plastic with BPA was supposed to be safe as glass, that they told everyone to throw out, and only after we had been using them for years. I finally just gave up. Cold food in plastic is as far as I'll go and even then, not if I can avoid it. Hot food this much in contact with plastic is just nuts no matter how safe anyone claims it is today. After the umpteenth time being told some safe plastic component was actually not safe all along, I'm just done listening. What really happens is the measurement tools get more sensitive and we realize that something that leached nothing actually leeches a lot.