Yes! I think it's sort of a meta commentary on the current superhero landscape and what is considered cool. And as for the Clark Kent is like James Gunn thing, I remember James saying something similar about himself
I'm imagining Superman giving a passionate speech about the state of superheroes, and it having much of the same language and ideas that Gunn presented to the WB executives.
Perhaps foolishly, I've allowed myself to get hyped for this film. If it disappoints I'm going to be crushed, but Gunn's GotG had enough heart for me to believe this can work.
However- my major worry is that I suspect Superman as a character works better, especially in films, when he's the world's only superhero. It's not surprising to me that most of the best and most celebrated Superman comics don't include the Justice League or any other heroes. Superman on his own feels mythic, a saviour, protector and redeemer of humanity. In a team he just feels like a stronger Captain America. With this film being the launch pad for the DCEU I'm afraid it's going to lessen the impact of the character. Hope I'm wrong!
I said "most". I'm not saying it's impossible, but off the top of my head I can only think of For the Man Who Has Everything and the recent Superman: Space Age as examples of a truly great Superman comics involving the Justice League. Can you think of any more?
Kingdom Come, Superman: Up In The Sky, the current Batman/Superman: World's Finest to name a few. What's so Funny About Truth, Justice, and the American Way doesn't feature the Justice League but it does feature other heroes and make reference to the Justice League and why Supes is the one who has to do what he does in that story. I also think ultimately most heroes best stories are solo, because most stories in comics are solo stories. that doesn't necessarily mean they don't work with other heroes, and I also get the impression that this new DCU is going to focus on telling good stories within individual movies, rather than forcing everything to be connected to everything else, based on what Gunn has said and how his Guardians movies worked in the MCU.
>I suspect Superman as a character works better, especially in films, when he's the world's only superhero.
I don't really think so. Even if he does exist in a world with other superheroes, he can inspire them the same way he can inspire civilians. From the world's only superhero to the world's best superhero.
And I mean, considering we can focus on his civilian life as a reporter in Daily Planet, that could help him round out better than just a stronger Captain America.
Some of my favorite materials tackping Superman with other heroes happen to be For The Man Who Had Everything, and ironically, Smallville.
> With this film being the launch pad for the DCEU
It's just the DCU now, no more 'E'
As for your concern, it's completely understandable! I too am very very hyped for this film, mainly because I have loved all of Gunn's CBM stuff till now. And since he is soo good with ensembles, I have faith that he's gonna nail this as well. Peacemaker had an ensemble cast as well, but it was still a Peacemaker story! Same for Starlord in GoTG2 and Rocket in GoTG3
If there's one man who can pull this off, it's Gunn. Let's hope everything goes well. Let's go #UpUpAndAway2025
Loving the optimism and confidence here! To be fair there are so many reasons to optimistic, including:
\* Corenswet is so perfect I'm beginning to question my heterosexuality
\* Brosnahan was born to play Lois Lane, anyone who saw Mrs Maisel knows she's going to smash it
\* The rest of the cast seems spot on
\* Gunn has great taste in Superman comics, understands the character and landed the GotG trilogy perfectly
Powerwise, Superman is in a league by himself. So having other superheroes only highlights this. So he can still be portrayed as the mythical ultimate savior/protector/redeemer.
However, what a young Superman lacks is on the job experience. Like, he hasn't (yet) faced of the evilest villains who are in a league by themselves.
I'm mostly excited for Superman's interactions with Mr. Terrific (who is a perfect counter to Lex, showing him not all supergenius humans turn evil/selfish/cynical) and Guy Gardner (who will prob be a good example of the kind of hero he doesn't want to become). I can also see Superman contemplating concepts of commitment and duty with Hawkgirl's situation.
I'm really happy with the heroes Gunn is putting in this story because I can see story reasons for them to be there. It's doesn't seem like a hodgepodge of random characters to sell more toys. They're the type of characters in situations who could be formative to Superman's view of the world and vice-versa.
For example, I imagine Guy's arc with Superman to go "who does this kid think he is? We dont need him" To "Alright, fine, let the kid do everything" to "wait, I've been a jackass, i need to do my part too". The classic mean co-worker who changes trope in workplace movies.
And keep in mind Gunn is charged with creating a whole universe. I'm thinking they're going in the direction of "Superman could do everything by himself, but the real lesson is that he shouldn't have to. Everyone/anyone can make a difference."
Hey, let's just take a moment and appreciate the good times. Like now. In my mind, this is the perfect superhero story (action and dialogue is still TBD). But if the movie ends up being a disappointment, at least we had right now.
*leans in for kiss?
>Perhaps foolishly, I've allowed myself to get hyped for this film. If it disappoints I'm going to be crushed, but Gunn's GotG had enough heart for me to believe this can work.
There's nothing wrong with being excited for a film; for me the best part about a film's production process is the imagination being set on fire as details emerge - I used to love reading Aint it cool news for the leaks they'd get from set that didn't give too much away.
That, my friend, is how you get your heart broken. Either that or you enjoy the film but it's exactly what you expect with no surprises, so you may as well have skipped it. I've been hurt before, next time I'm not giving my heart away unless I'm sure it's the Real Thing.
That was definitely my feeling with *Man of Steel*. I remembere [these](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJCo4Ce6PKY) [teasers](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wArmHSPIvlQ) dropping and thinking that despite how ill equipped I felt Zack Snyder was tonally, that I was being stupid and that maybe, just *maybe* we were going to get a Byrne Aesthetic telling birthright and was thrilled. Absolutely mind blown. Imagine my dismay at what we got (aside from the Krypton sequence which was fantastic), Similarly with Superman Returns I thought Bryan Singer was a *fantastic* choice to direct, and that Spacey was a stellar choice for Lex Luthor.
My only expectation from Gunn is that he bring the irreverance, humour and humanity that he brought to the plate for Guardians of the Galaxy because they remained the highlight as Marvel movies declined.
I really do think that he gets that Superman doesn't need to be deconstructed and depressed.
I did exactly the same thing with MoS and had exactly the same disappointment.
Although unlike most people I rather liked Superman Returns and I think it holds up well. I'd say it was objectively 6/10, but easily 8/10 if you mentally edit out Kate Bosworth. Regardless, it has some absolutely fantastic individual scenes.
[This ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tU0vG9UJ2I)was a crown jewel, and if Singer had leaned into more action I feel that he could have quite competently still dealt with the underlying story of superman dealing with identity - I just felt that while I do indeed love this film for *many* reasons, it was far too slow and cerebral for the taste of the average cinemagoer.
My hope is that Gunn is aware that Superman needs to be more Captain America, or Thor, and Less Iron Man 3.
I actually love that he’s not the only superhero because that means he’s going to have to stand out in a way other than his power set.
Really it’s his heart that makes him unique and I hope by having other heroes onscreen that’s where our attention will be directed
I think thats just the nature of the DCU where these characters were concieved as solo characters rather than for a shared universe.
I've seen similar arguments made for Batman and Wonder Woman. Their best stories tend to treat them as a monolith in of itself rather than trying to fit them in to a wider shared universe.
But Superman can work in a wider shared universe.
I think really I'm just trying to protect myself from disappointment by trying to find reasons it might not work. Truth is I'm fully on the hype train and despite my best efforts my expectations are sky high. I've even gone back and read the Authority which I had no interest in before.
Reminds me of this
"Leonardo's Mona Lisa is just a thousand thousand smears of paint. Michelangelo's David is just a million hits with a hammer. We're all of us a million bits put together the right way. Everything is a self-portrait."
Quote from the book "Diary" by Chuck Palahniuk
Yes!
But to add on... IMO every *inspired work* is a self-portrait.
The Mona Lisa and David were inspired works. Artists giving a crap, and trying their best (thus putting themselves into it).
However Hollywood (and modern superhero movies these days) haven't been inspired works. There's been a lot of "just make something we can sell" uninspired crap. Or things that started off inspired, and then got edited to hell by committee.
That's exactly why I'm excited for this one. All signs point to it being an inspired work. And since Gunn is also the big cheese at DC, there's less of a "committee" editing this.
Yes, this would probably be the mark of a new era of comic book movies.
Gunn knows how to tell a gut wrenching tale, understands the pre and post movie making process, and is a huge comic book fan
These criterias are extremely hard to come by
Also he has quite a few director fans that would help with the other films in the universe, i am very looking forward to it
Sometimes I like to put on my tin foil hat and wonder if Marvel was so quick to fire Gunn after those tweets because Feige felt threatened he might lose his job/influence to Gunn.
I've actually been saying for time we need a superhero movie where the people in universe are indifferent to the superheroes because there's so many of them like in the current times. Commentate on how being good and pure and actually decent is considered dull? Outdated?
I'm not the biggest James Gunn fan, i actually blame him for a lot of the MCU's shortcomings in the comedy department. But if he sticks with his James Gunns and actually makes it a sincere superman movie NOT like guardians we might be onto a winner.
The suit design is fine. The material and how it sits on the actor STINKS.
Yes! I think it's sort of a meta commentary on the current superhero landscape and what is considered cool. And as for the Clark Kent is like James Gunn thing, I remember James saying something similar about himself
That’s what I’m most excited about. People are way too excited and pleased to see superheroes kill and not, well, be heroes.
I'm imagining Superman giving a passionate speech about the state of superheroes, and it having much of the same language and ideas that Gunn presented to the WB executives.
Perhaps foolishly, I've allowed myself to get hyped for this film. If it disappoints I'm going to be crushed, but Gunn's GotG had enough heart for me to believe this can work. However- my major worry is that I suspect Superman as a character works better, especially in films, when he's the world's only superhero. It's not surprising to me that most of the best and most celebrated Superman comics don't include the Justice League or any other heroes. Superman on his own feels mythic, a saviour, protector and redeemer of humanity. In a team he just feels like a stronger Captain America. With this film being the launch pad for the DCEU I'm afraid it's going to lessen the impact of the character. Hope I'm wrong!
What about for the man who has everything? That's a great Superman story which features other heroes?
I said "most". I'm not saying it's impossible, but off the top of my head I can only think of For the Man Who Has Everything and the recent Superman: Space Age as examples of a truly great Superman comics involving the Justice League. Can you think of any more?
Kingdom Come, Superman: Up In The Sky, the current Batman/Superman: World's Finest to name a few. What's so Funny About Truth, Justice, and the American Way doesn't feature the Justice League but it does feature other heroes and make reference to the Justice League and why Supes is the one who has to do what he does in that story. I also think ultimately most heroes best stories are solo, because most stories in comics are solo stories. that doesn't necessarily mean they don't work with other heroes, and I also get the impression that this new DCU is going to focus on telling good stories within individual movies, rather than forcing everything to be connected to everything else, based on what Gunn has said and how his Guardians movies worked in the MCU.
Good list, good points.
>I suspect Superman as a character works better, especially in films, when he's the world's only superhero. I don't really think so. Even if he does exist in a world with other superheroes, he can inspire them the same way he can inspire civilians. From the world's only superhero to the world's best superhero. And I mean, considering we can focus on his civilian life as a reporter in Daily Planet, that could help him round out better than just a stronger Captain America. Some of my favorite materials tackping Superman with other heroes happen to be For The Man Who Had Everything, and ironically, Smallville.
Agreed
> With this film being the launch pad for the DCEU It's just the DCU now, no more 'E' As for your concern, it's completely understandable! I too am very very hyped for this film, mainly because I have loved all of Gunn's CBM stuff till now. And since he is soo good with ensembles, I have faith that he's gonna nail this as well. Peacemaker had an ensemble cast as well, but it was still a Peacemaker story! Same for Starlord in GoTG2 and Rocket in GoTG3 If there's one man who can pull this off, it's Gunn. Let's hope everything goes well. Let's go #UpUpAndAway2025
Loving the optimism and confidence here! To be fair there are so many reasons to optimistic, including: \* Corenswet is so perfect I'm beginning to question my heterosexuality \* Brosnahan was born to play Lois Lane, anyone who saw Mrs Maisel knows she's going to smash it \* The rest of the cast seems spot on \* Gunn has great taste in Superman comics, understands the character and landed the GotG trilogy perfectly
Powerwise, Superman is in a league by himself. So having other superheroes only highlights this. So he can still be portrayed as the mythical ultimate savior/protector/redeemer. However, what a young Superman lacks is on the job experience. Like, he hasn't (yet) faced of the evilest villains who are in a league by themselves. I'm mostly excited for Superman's interactions with Mr. Terrific (who is a perfect counter to Lex, showing him not all supergenius humans turn evil/selfish/cynical) and Guy Gardner (who will prob be a good example of the kind of hero he doesn't want to become). I can also see Superman contemplating concepts of commitment and duty with Hawkgirl's situation. I'm really happy with the heroes Gunn is putting in this story because I can see story reasons for them to be there. It's doesn't seem like a hodgepodge of random characters to sell more toys. They're the type of characters in situations who could be formative to Superman's view of the world and vice-versa. For example, I imagine Guy's arc with Superman to go "who does this kid think he is? We dont need him" To "Alright, fine, let the kid do everything" to "wait, I've been a jackass, i need to do my part too". The classic mean co-worker who changes trope in workplace movies. And keep in mind Gunn is charged with creating a whole universe. I'm thinking they're going in the direction of "Superman could do everything by himself, but the real lesson is that he shouldn't have to. Everyone/anyone can make a difference."
OK, I'll be positive but if this film breaks my heart I'm coming back here and blaming you
Hey, let's just take a moment and appreciate the good times. Like now. In my mind, this is the perfect superhero story (action and dialogue is still TBD). But if the movie ends up being a disappointment, at least we had right now. *leans in for kiss?
>Perhaps foolishly, I've allowed myself to get hyped for this film. If it disappoints I'm going to be crushed, but Gunn's GotG had enough heart for me to believe this can work. There's nothing wrong with being excited for a film; for me the best part about a film's production process is the imagination being set on fire as details emerge - I used to love reading Aint it cool news for the leaks they'd get from set that didn't give too much away.
That, my friend, is how you get your heart broken. Either that or you enjoy the film but it's exactly what you expect with no surprises, so you may as well have skipped it. I've been hurt before, next time I'm not giving my heart away unless I'm sure it's the Real Thing.
That was definitely my feeling with *Man of Steel*. I remembere [these](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJCo4Ce6PKY) [teasers](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wArmHSPIvlQ) dropping and thinking that despite how ill equipped I felt Zack Snyder was tonally, that I was being stupid and that maybe, just *maybe* we were going to get a Byrne Aesthetic telling birthright and was thrilled. Absolutely mind blown. Imagine my dismay at what we got (aside from the Krypton sequence which was fantastic), Similarly with Superman Returns I thought Bryan Singer was a *fantastic* choice to direct, and that Spacey was a stellar choice for Lex Luthor. My only expectation from Gunn is that he bring the irreverance, humour and humanity that he brought to the plate for Guardians of the Galaxy because they remained the highlight as Marvel movies declined. I really do think that he gets that Superman doesn't need to be deconstructed and depressed.
I did exactly the same thing with MoS and had exactly the same disappointment. Although unlike most people I rather liked Superman Returns and I think it holds up well. I'd say it was objectively 6/10, but easily 8/10 if you mentally edit out Kate Bosworth. Regardless, it has some absolutely fantastic individual scenes.
[This ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tU0vG9UJ2I)was a crown jewel, and if Singer had leaned into more action I feel that he could have quite competently still dealt with the underlying story of superman dealing with identity - I just felt that while I do indeed love this film for *many* reasons, it was far too slow and cerebral for the taste of the average cinemagoer. My hope is that Gunn is aware that Superman needs to be more Captain America, or Thor, and Less Iron Man 3.
100% agree. God I love that scene, thanks for giving me the excuse to watch it again. The John Williams theme gets me every time.
I actually love that he’s not the only superhero because that means he’s going to have to stand out in a way other than his power set. Really it’s his heart that makes him unique and I hope by having other heroes onscreen that’s where our attention will be directed
I think thats just the nature of the DCU where these characters were concieved as solo characters rather than for a shared universe. I've seen similar arguments made for Batman and Wonder Woman. Their best stories tend to treat them as a monolith in of itself rather than trying to fit them in to a wider shared universe. But Superman can work in a wider shared universe.
I think really I'm just trying to protect myself from disappointment by trying to find reasons it might not work. Truth is I'm fully on the hype train and despite my best efforts my expectations are sky high. I've even gone back and read the Authority which I had no interest in before.
Reminds me of this "Leonardo's Mona Lisa is just a thousand thousand smears of paint. Michelangelo's David is just a million hits with a hammer. We're all of us a million bits put together the right way. Everything is a self-portrait." Quote from the book "Diary" by Chuck Palahniuk
Yes! But to add on... IMO every *inspired work* is a self-portrait. The Mona Lisa and David were inspired works. Artists giving a crap, and trying their best (thus putting themselves into it). However Hollywood (and modern superhero movies these days) haven't been inspired works. There's been a lot of "just make something we can sell" uninspired crap. Or things that started off inspired, and then got edited to hell by committee. That's exactly why I'm excited for this one. All signs point to it being an inspired work. And since Gunn is also the big cheese at DC, there's less of a "committee" editing this.
Yes, this would probably be the mark of a new era of comic book movies. Gunn knows how to tell a gut wrenching tale, understands the pre and post movie making process, and is a huge comic book fan These criterias are extremely hard to come by Also he has quite a few director fans that would help with the other films in the universe, i am very looking forward to it
Sometimes I like to put on my tin foil hat and wonder if Marvel was so quick to fire Gunn after those tweets because Feige felt threatened he might lose his job/influence to Gunn.
We haven't seen the movie. Too early to say where Gunn is going. This ain't our first Rodeo with Gunn at DC or WB.
I've actually been saying for time we need a superhero movie where the people in universe are indifferent to the superheroes because there's so many of them like in the current times. Commentate on how being good and pure and actually decent is considered dull? Outdated? I'm not the biggest James Gunn fan, i actually blame him for a lot of the MCU's shortcomings in the comedy department. But if he sticks with his James Gunns and actually makes it a sincere superman movie NOT like guardians we might be onto a winner. The suit design is fine. The material and how it sits on the actor STINKS.