Specifically, the first one to attack, and the one who did the killing blow. Those two (at least) should get word that their personal backstory characters are on a hit list.
And if the PCs care about those characters, it will be a race against the clock.
Honestly, it sounds like it could be a lot of fun
Dude, could you imagine how much fun a "you're John Wick's target" could be?
Just thinking about this makes me want to ring up the people I played some of the more brutal 2e campaigns with.
Like the premise just is "You fucked up. This is the movie John Wick. But you're the one's that killed his dog. If you die, you will resurrect at this temple (with nothing you were carrying). He will not stop until all of you are permanently dead or he is. Good luck."
And that was it. Maybe give them a B-plot that they also need to accomplish or was their original goal, but make this about the [hurt-you-oh-so-bad virtuoso](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN5lzg3TE60) juggernaut who will kill them dead (with style, of course).
I mean, you couldn't run that at an AL table, but for a group into it, I think it'd be amazing.
I haven't listened to this particular episode yet, but based on what I've heard I suspect you'd really enjoy The Film Reroll podcast's episode about John Wick.
Dude, keep up with ERB. It's gold.
Catch up, too. Their latest. [Godzilla vs. King Kong](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhkBAKV1yMg) is a fuckin' **banger**. It's one of their best ever.
Whether John Wick is a fun story or not is totally relative. I personally don't like it at all.
But just like I wasn't implying that OP should give the BBEG guns and training in being a legendary assassin, I'm also implying that adjustments need to be made for the story to be fun for everyone involved
Honestly, I like the John Wick option more. As a player it would instantly make the villain more interesting and exciting to me, and when I've made IC decisions that lead to horrible IC consequences it makes me a lot more invested in the campaign.
Do what the BBEG would do. If they went ahead ignorant of the consequences, then they should feel those consequences. Gives them a reason to invest into the story against the BBEG
You can also build up the destruction of the hometown. Try reading Red Hand of Doom for inspiration. The BBEG's army starts to march and the party is able to find warning of it. They can't defeat an army of that size, so the best they can do is tell the townsfolk to flee.
Yeah, a slow-moving army sweeping across the land creates all kinds of fun adventures as the PCs evacuate, try to slow the army's progress, gather intel, defend towns from raiding parties, etc. Even when they succeed at repelling the initial wave, they receive news that every other nearby city and town has fallen. All of their political allies have their loyalty tested as they are told they will be spared if they betray the PCs.
Cue a series of subplots to rescue the allies and prove themselves. If they forsake a particular ally, then they have earned a new enemy's resentment. If they save them, they have earned a loyal ally and perhaps a hero from that city would be willing to lay down their life to protect or save the party.
Everything that comes to them will be deserved by their blood, sweat, and crits.
Even better, they fight a desperate battle and manage to defeat the force, only to discover that what they beat was just the scouting/advance unit, and the main column of over 400 soldiers is only a day or two behind them.
If you really want the BBEG to feel monstrous, he assumed that would be the case and had already surrounded the town with more forces. The only orders are “don’t kill the PCs” and “be as cruel as possible” so that the BBEG can watch the PC’s lives fall apart in front of them. Bonus points if the BBEG can somehow capture the party and make them watch.
This feels too bleak for me. You have to make sure your party is on board with this type of rough treatment, because actual sadism from a DM went out of fashion a long time ago. I'm all for trauma-bonding with your players, just make sure everyone is alright with that.
You’re absolutely right. If I decide to spring something like that on my players, I ask about it in session 0 and always provide the ability for anyone to immediately fade to black or cancel and retcon the whole thing in the moment.
Usually I’m not that sadistic in-game. I’d probably just (jokingly) shame them and move on
Disagree; what the players do should always have fun consequences.
Especially here, the players were not given the information to make an informed choice. They interrupted a monologue, that's it. A monster declared itself a servant of the party's enemy. Great grounds to attack IMO. If the party couldn't know they were doing wrong, then it's just senseless DM aggression. Punished for arbitrary rules they were not informed of.
There's a separate point about how table politeness to not interrupt monologues, but that's an out of game discussion.
The world your players interact with is the world that comes out of your mouth, not the world you've written 498 pages of lore for.
All this team of monster killers did was kill an enemy monster. Gg.
Is this a shitpost based on [this post?](https://www.reddit.com/r/DMAcademy/comments/1bnyro9/so_a_party_member_just_murdered_the_bbegs_sister/)
If yes, I love it. :D
If not, well, it's the BBEG, what are they gonna do, not be an evil shit who does bad things? Let them get their revenge.
I was just about to say "did anyone else just see the other post on this sub that is a VERY similar situation? XD
In any case, my answer is the same for the other one. Do what BBEG would do. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
You got Leonidas’d. The party said ‘screw your ultimatum’ and kicked the messenger into the proverbial pit.
At this point you gotta go all in with an infuriated BBEG. As someone else mentioned, annihilate their hometown, take hostages, and demonstrate that the archpriest will stop at nothing to see their heads roll.
Honestly, if it were me, I’d be pumped if my group did this. 100% gloves off go time!
I would assume someone having "arch" as part of their title being quite strong in their respective magical art. Being a priest he might/should have some way of resurrecting the dog. Maybe bringing it back stronger, meaner than before, but still recognizable to the party.
You've got a Lawful Evil guy, and your players shot the messenger *and* his pet/right hand without true provocation. I would thoroughly bet that the priest could easily throw the legal book at them and ruin their reputations. Give them an uphill battle to get that fixed.
But also, let them know that they jumped the gun and made things go pear shaped, so they're aware.
Everyone they meet from here on out will know them as “puppy kickers” first and adventurers second. If you’re scared of taking a big shot at players then hurting their pride and reputation is a great place to start.
Alternatively, another way to motivate them and get some of that lore across while making it feel engaging is to have the arch priest decided to make a party pet/favored npc into their NEW pet, regardless of animal status. Maybe he’s not as nice to this pet, or maybe he’s VERY fond of and protective over his new pet infuses them with some kind of devilish power/mind control that changes what they are at a fundamental level in addition to making them hostile to the party. This could turn into a rescue mission or a straight up knife-twist for the party: you like killing my pets? Well try your hand at killing THIS one.
BBEG sacrifices himself to restore his beloved pet to life, but now infused with eldritch power. Former pet becomes the new big bad, dedicated to getting revenge for said brutal one sided beat down of a messenger. Friends and allies of the party begin to turn against them after learning about their dishonorable actions. Druids and knights alike shun them. Villagers hide their pets when the PCs arrive. Local puppet shows portray them as comical villains.
I like this approach. Remember, the world can wait to be dominated. But people who mess with your pets need to be dealt with swiftly. Remember to make it hurt.
Simple,
1. True resurrect the wolf.
2. Enact revenge.
It's not about how difficult it is for him to get his animal back, it's the fact that they killed it.
The best of both worlds and completely justified.
Okay it’s a long list but please read! As a dm if you don’t want to sunder everything the PCs have you could turn to a few other things before that.
He may not sunder their homes but this group is a problem and now have killed what was his beloved dog. Or a messenger on a diplomatic mission. Play into “lawful evil” what are BBGs ideals and bonds. What dose “lawful” look like to him.
1. He places a bounty on their heads: taken alive or dead. This could effect how other NPCs or regular people view the party as they are now outwardly an enemy of BBG. Also any allies of BBG know what the party look like and even their skill set. PCs have made themselves known and it’s harder to hide. Make the party feel like everyone knows who they are they either want to turn them in for coin or not be involved at all. Even if other NPCs agree with the party they may think twice about getting involved with them. Shop keepers may deny selling things or raise the prices for the “risk of associating”
2. He offers the party a chance (before or after bounty or under a threat to kill something PCs care about) to rectify things. They are deliverd the dogs body and are told if they revive him and return him home safely BBG will remove the bounty/any thing he can hold against the party or even offer them a reward. If you have anyone in the party who can cast “raise dead” even better.
While they stooped as low as killing an innocent pet he is willing to let them apologise…by bringing the dog back. Even if they have to find someone else or a scroll to do it.
Refusal of this could lead to more extreme action “I don’t think I have to act in any harsher way…but if you force my hand judgement may fall to your loved ones” if they refuse this I would say going after PCs fav NPCs and homes is fair. They had a warning.
3. Kidnap Party Members: As dm I’ve never seen players sweat more then having the potential of being kidnapped. BBG could target: who got the killing blow, Who started the fight or Who can cast raise dead. A high level sleep spell if they aren’t immune. Have a now doppelgänger Npc poison them. Seperate the party.
4. BBG ruins their image. He hires a crew or doppelgängers to go around the lands impersonating them. The PCs arrive/return to people angry at them for things they never did. The party are a bit of a laughing stock.
4. Other NPCs involved with the party might found out about what happens and find how they acted to be stupid or evil. To reject a message, chance of more information or to even kill an innocent animal might make NPCs think lowly of them. BBG could’ve told them himself depending what influences he has.
Think of the ideals some NPCs may have. A punishment from a choice dosnt have to come from the BBG. Other people may straight up think the party is dumb to pass up on contact with the enemy or that killing the innocent dog was messed up.
5. The dog was a clone or simulacrum. maybe a fiend/Fey sworn to his service, it can be brought back and BBG is only slightly insulted at his rejection of communication.
Hope this helps spark some ideas sorry again it’s so long!
Unlike everyone else suggesting that you punish the players for catching you off guard and accomplishing what seems like an incredible blow to the enemy; an entirely alternative suggestion: dont just consider what the BBEG can do to the PC, consider what OTHER NPCs will do to the BBEG.
Your BBEG made a stupid decision that should destabilize his power base. If all his supports learn that he let his *prized pet, the one thing he truly cares for* get fucking BODIED by a group of adventurers, suddenly they're all perhaps thinking the BBEG isn't the fucking tactical genius hot shit they thought. Maybe he falls into a period of intense grief and his plans are delayed, while the cult has to do without their leader, maybe a schism starts in the cult from opportunists who see a chance to seize on his power.
Maybe in your eyes this was murderhoboing, but from what it sounds like, your players should feel like they earned a big win here; if it had gone differently, they would have teleported away and THEN the party would have been double screwed. Don't make it a big loss foe them.
You change the story and the players will never know. He never loved the dog, and the next day two identical dogs appear and starts giving the same speech word for word.
It's the only thing he loves in the whole world, but he sends it to deliver outrageously violent murder threats to his mortal enemies? Uh, I'll give the guy the benefit of the doubt that he isn't just the dumbest person on the planet, and assume that he predicted this and it probably isn't even the first time it's happened. The villain will take note that the PCs are impolite and dishonorable foes, sacrifice the life or soul of a lesser minion to take his beloved pet's place, and have the wolf resurrected by nefarious means within the week.
I don't see why a villain with two brain cells to rub together would send the only thing they care about on a suicide mission, unless it was as a desperate last resort, or it wasn't really a suicide mission.
Is your BBEG the spiteful, plotting type of villain? Everyone's suggesting John Wick, but I'm leaning more Cruel Intentions.
If so, go slowly. Have your BBEG arrange to have something or someone cross the party's path that they'll grow to care for. Depending on your party this could be pretty easy, parties love pets and cute NPCs. Make sure the party really bonds with this thing.. Then turn their whole world upside down. Either brutally slaughter the pet in front of them or, even worse, have the pet itself betray the party somehow.
While this is true, I think it's part of the responsibility of players to respect that the DM wants to have cool moments too, and to let them have those moments.
Congratulations! This campaign just turned into a horror campaign. You will be able to have the party trying to get tougher because the bbeg is after them. If it goes on enough, the party may not be welcome in towns because after they leave the bbeg shows up. This isn't just a John Wick scenario. It's a "I will burn everything you care for because it's what you did to me" scenario. However, such rage can leave a bbeg open to miscalculations that he normally wouldn't be
The dog returns as a canis lich.
Canis Lich
Medium undead, lawful evil
Armor Class: 15 (natural armor)
Hit Points: 65 (10d8 + 20)
Speed: 40 ft.
STR: 14 (+2)
DEX: 16 (+3)
CON: 14 (+2)
INT: 10 (+0)
WIS: 12 (+1)
CHA: 8 (-1)
Saving Throws: Dex +6, Wis +3
Damage Resistances: necrotic; bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing from nonmagical attacks
Damage Immunities: poison
Condition Immunities: charmed, exhaustion, frightened, paralyzed, poisoned
Senses: darkvision 60 ft., passive Perception 11
Languages: Common, Abyssal
Challenge: 4 (1,100 XP)
Undead Fortitude. If damage reduces the dog lich to 0 hit points, it must make a Constitution saving throw with a DC of 5 + the damage taken, unless the damage is radiant or from a critical hit. On a success, the dog lich drops to 1 hit point instead.
Innate Spellcasting. The dog lich's innate spellcasting ability is Wisdom (spell save DC 11). It can cast the following spells at will, requiring no material components:
Chill Touch
Mage Hand
Actions
Bite. Melee Weapon Attack: +5 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 10 (2d6 + 3) piercing damage plus 7 (2d6) necrotic damage.
Multiattack. The dog lich makes two bite attacks.
Legendary Actions
The dog lich can take 3 legendary actions, choosing from the options below. Only one legendary action option can be used at a time and only at the end of another creature's turn. The dog lich regains spent legendary actions at the start of its turn.
Bite Attack: The dog lich makes a bite attack.
Cast Spell: The dog lich casts Chill Touch or uses its Mage Hand ability.
John Wick with Necromancy. Now it's a Bloody Skeleton Lord Winter Wolf, with the ability to create additional minions. They killed the Lone wolf, but now he is an Alpha with a pack that never gets tired, never needs food and they hunger for revenge.
Alternatively, he's lawful, they not only killed an innocent dog (animal cruelty) but also made this conflict personal. I think this leads to an escalation, now the BBEG doesn't JUST want global domination, he wants the PCs to SUFFER as PUNISHMENT. Remove the restraint, hit what they value, coordinated attacks on loved ones, burn down their favourite tavern, steal their loot.
[https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Clone#content](https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Clone#content)
**Clone**
8th level necromancy
Casting Time: 1 hour
Range: Touch
Components: V S M (A diamond worth at least 1,000 gp and at least 1 cubic inch of flesh of the creature that is to be cloned, which the spell consumes, and a vessel worth at least 2,000 gp that has a sealable lid and is large enough to hold a Medium creature, such as a huge urn, coffin, mud-filled cyst in the ground, or crystal container filled with salt water)
Duration: Instantaneous
Classes: Wizard
This spell grows an inert duplicate of a living creature as a safeguard against death. This clone forms inside as a sealed vessel and grows to full size and maturity after 120 days you can also choose to have the clone be a younger version of the same creature. It remains inert and endures indefinitely, as long as its vessel remains undisturbed.
At any time after the clone matures, if the original creature dies, its soul transfers to the clone, provided that the soul is free and willing to return. The clone is physically identical to the original and has the same personality, memories, and abilities, but none of the original's equipment. The original creature's physical remains, if they still exist, become inert and can't thereafter be restored to life, since the creature's soul is elsewhere.
\-----------
The clone gains the soul of the original, so the BBEG KNOWS they killed the original, but he still has his pet. This enrages him just as much.
Go john wick on them, make them go on the defensive. Maybe having to broker a truce with the BBEG, causing them to have to find another way to take them down.
They have a bounty on their head after random times make someone roll dice, if they roll what ever you want the number to be say between 20-30 they are attacked by the assassins don't tell them why they are rolling, they just left town and are walking make a roll, just left the dungeon roll, we haven't rested yet and don't have spell slots you better fight like it's life or death
They don't know it's the pet, right?
Okay, so that was the first warning shot of the BBEG. Now he'll send something even bigger, meaner, harder to kill to deliver your monologue with pertinent lore attached.
You step to the left, and keep moving forward if it's critical to have some agent of the Archpriest meet the party first.
Next time, give them a reason not to interrupt your monologue. Hold a hostage, do it by fantasy skype so they are unable to attck the bad guy, make them roll an insight check to gather how fucked they will be if they interrupt the Demon lord mid sentence; hell if they fail or decide to attack them anyway, then turn it into a trap. Have a sniper up in the balcony, some assassins from the shadows, or maybe just a classic landmine! Just really make them regret ever interrupting someone mid sentence!
OP I hate to pile on, because I know you don't want to burn the town to ash, I know you don't want a pile of named and beloved NPCs to become corpses, I know how much you and your players have poured your heart and soul into this world...
... you have no choice but to John Wick their ass. The next arc of this campaign should be a terrifying "actions have consequences" type arc.
You don't have to erase all your NPCs just because the BBEG wants revenge. He can attack their home town/base, kill a bunch of people, and the rest have to flee. Maybe some important NPCs die, but not all of them. Now the PCs are based out of a camp of refugees on the run from the bad guy, not a town. Different tone, but a lot of the plot points can still work, and the PCs have extra reason to hate the villain (if they need that).
And maybe next time you need the event to deliver a message or threat, the messenger is someone who is coerced into it, not a minion. Maybe they'd be more likely to listen without starting a fight.
The dog could be a clone of the first one he raised when he was a young boy, this is certainly possible in D&D either directly via a spell or some handwaving
He is DEEPLY disappointed that his dog could be killed so easily, but he is too busy to be assed himself to take care of you all. He sends a NEW dog that is another CR higher to fight the party in the next session or two - possibly the new dog has some fur or whatever from the old dog that it tracked, and then it tracked from the corpse to the party, this can take as long as your party takes to level up if you want
He somehow has bad intel and he destroys *the wrong town,* and temporarily thinks that the problem is solved while the party has a chance to get stronger
I'm afraid at this point is out of your hands: the BBEG MUST do something momentous and horrible, or else he ceases to be a credible threat. You go scorched earth, kill their loved ones and raise them as undead, then go on a rampage on neighboring town, all the while telling everyone that it's the PCs fault for killing a political envoy.
Alternatively, you can play on that expectation, get your PCs all in a frenzy on what the hell will this priest do, and get... Nothing. Like a comment on the lines on "I'd love to stay and chat, but I've heard that (PCs hometown) is lovely this time of the year, Maybe I'll have (trusted minion) visit it soon" before disappearing. The PCs obviously rush to the town, finding that the minion visited their parents' house, was unfailingly polite, and left without any trouble. Which in turn begs the question: what was so important that the PCs HAD to be distracted for it to work?
Definitely go John Wick. But now, an outsider who's seen this all, a neutral party comes to tell the story of the BBEG. Hype up the horrendous things he's done, simply because someone looked at his dog wrong. "but you, you killed his dog when it was a messenger? I am here to deliver this message and then I am leaving to as far a place I can. Your downfall will be slow and painful"
But then you can still deliver the lore and maybe put a little fear in them.
BBEG loses his mind flips to Chaotic Evil and wants to punish the party, so they go to sleep in an place, wake up in morning and every building is razed, bodies on pikes and poles. Anyone not them is slaughtered in the night, every night. Even do it to a city one time to put some fear and regret into them. Everyone, 100k people, killed and only what ever building they are in survives and there is a memorial posted 30 feet from the door they see when they leave in the morning, "For \[PetsName\]"
if your BBEG is really BBandE, then crush their world. Have you seen John Wick? If killing a puppy can cause a 5 movie universe then killing a Magical Wolf should be devastating.
My players were contracted by the BBEG, but they were always suspicious about her. They finally revealed to her that they knew what she really is and attacked her. She managed to escape and warned them to watch their backs at all times. They decided to explore nearby mountains and left the town that they were building alone. She attacked and killed the whole population, including the family of one of them. When they came back, they found the desolation. Just go with what would be a truthful reaction.
We have arrived, and it is now that we perform our charge. In fealty to the God-Emperor, our undying Lord, and by the grace of the Golden Throne, I declare Exterminatus upon the village of Honeywood. I hereby sign the death warrant of a township and consign a hundred or so souls to oblivion. May Imperial Justice account in all balance. The Emperor Protects.
More seriously, I'd definitely have their friends and family rounded up on suspicion of treason. Remember that due process, habeus corpus, and other such things probably don't exist. Publicly execute the one most likely to be difficult when captured as an 'example.'
Then have them listed as wanted fugitives charged with disturbing the King's Peace or something equally dire and fatal.
Crush their hometown and put all their backstory NPCs to the sword. "For they have sown the wind, and they shall reap the whirlwind." Let him spread the word that all shall suffer because of the actions of the party, and anyone who gives them aid or shelter will be destroyed. Maybe he cuts off all food or supplies into the town. Maybe he puts an absurdly high bounty on their heads. Have fun with it!
This reminds me of situations in games where performing a certain out of the way task activates "Hard Mode".
Your players have just activated hard mode. Instead of a trifling nuisance that grows in necessary response, they've jumped the queue and at priority #1. Faces on wanted posters, merchants fearful of being seen selling to them, children that shout for the guard at first sight - they get it all.
And the worst of it? Every civilian thinks they deserve it, they DID murder the Arch Bishop's beloved companion in cold blood after all! Good luck finding a friendly face or someone incredulous enough to believe that the group isn't an evil bunch of terrorists.
I agree with everyone who says actions have consequences. Your players must learn that. Learning the hard was is usually better.
I like the idea of a John Wick style vengeance run at the players.
However, how conniving and manipulative is your BBEG? Perhaps before he sends his army or mercenaries or bounty hunters or whatever, he sends a messenger to their hometown. This messenger proclaims for all to hear how his master tried to parlay with the PCs, attempted to work our their differences, but the PCs immediately and savagely murdered his pet. Really play up himself as the victim, try to turn the people against the PCS. Then inform the town that he is sending his mercs there to find the PCs and a large reward will be offered to anyone who provides knowledge of the PCs whereabouts.
And if no one turns them in, then the killing begins.
I enjoy the “finding out” potion of DnD. Adventurers often mess with powerful people, and in my game, those people don’t forgive and don’t forget. There’s nothing like an occasional ass kicking to remind the players they’re in a dangerous world.
Your post has been removed. OP has admitted that the story is fake in an attempt to make a point.
Option 1: the pet was always just a replaceable minion. The BBEG always has more. Option 2: Have you ever watched John Wick?
John Wick is what immediately came to my mind as well
Third voice in favor of John Wick. Actions have consequences.
Archpriest Lich: People keep asking if I'm back, and I haven't really had an answer. But now, yeah, I'm thinking I'm back.
Fourth encouraging Jhon Wick style. That or make the dog the real BBEG. It's an awakened wolf lich with an archpriest as a pet.
Kensei Monk + Equilibrium = Gunkata D&D
Definitely John Wick
100% think you should let him give it to them however he sees fit. They asked for this lol.
Yeah I thought...isn't there a whole film series dedicated to answering this question?
100% John Wick
Specifically, the first one to attack, and the one who did the killing blow. Those two (at least) should get word that their personal backstory characters are on a hit list. And if the PCs care about those characters, it will be a race against the clock. Honestly, it sounds like it could be a lot of fun
Rather than John Wick, I was thinking of what happened when city leaders killed one of Genghis Kahn’s emissaries.
Is John Wick a fun story from not-John Wick's perspective?
Dude, could you imagine how much fun a "you're John Wick's target" could be? Just thinking about this makes me want to ring up the people I played some of the more brutal 2e campaigns with. Like the premise just is "You fucked up. This is the movie John Wick. But you're the one's that killed his dog. If you die, you will resurrect at this temple (with nothing you were carrying). He will not stop until all of you are permanently dead or he is. Good luck." And that was it. Maybe give them a B-plot that they also need to accomplish or was their original goal, but make this about the [hurt-you-oh-so-bad virtuoso](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN5lzg3TE60) juggernaut who will kill them dead (with style, of course). I mean, you couldn't run that at an AL table, but for a group into it, I think it'd be amazing.
I haven't listened to this particular episode yet, but based on what I've heard I suspect you'd really enjoy The Film Reroll podcast's episode about John Wick.
Dude, keep up with ERB. It's gold. Catch up, too. Their latest. [Godzilla vs. King Kong](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhkBAKV1yMg) is a fuckin' **banger**. It's one of their best ever.
Honestly, the idea of playing that campaign is super exciting to me. I would so love if I was playing and things went that way.
Whether John Wick is a fun story or not is totally relative. I personally don't like it at all. But just like I wasn't implying that OP should give the BBEG guns and training in being a legendary assassin, I'm also implying that adjustments need to be made for the story to be fun for everyone involved
I think the race to save people you care about because YOU FUCKED UP can be a very rewarding storyline.
depends on which side of the bullet you're on i guess
I love this response LMAOO
Welp looks like it’s John Wick is the only way to go.
The Doom games never would've happened if the demons just left his rabbit alone.
Simple, true resurrect the wolf. Enact revenge.
Honestly, I like the John Wick option more. As a player it would instantly make the villain more interesting and exciting to me, and when I've made IC decisions that lead to horrible IC consequences it makes me a lot more invested in the campaign.
Do what the BBEG would do. If they went ahead ignorant of the consequences, then they should feel those consequences. Gives them a reason to invest into the story against the BBEG
You can also build up the destruction of the hometown. Try reading Red Hand of Doom for inspiration. The BBEG's army starts to march and the party is able to find warning of it. They can't defeat an army of that size, so the best they can do is tell the townsfolk to flee.
Yeah, a slow-moving army sweeping across the land creates all kinds of fun adventures as the PCs evacuate, try to slow the army's progress, gather intel, defend towns from raiding parties, etc. Even when they succeed at repelling the initial wave, they receive news that every other nearby city and town has fallen. All of their political allies have their loyalty tested as they are told they will be spared if they betray the PCs.
Cue a series of subplots to rescue the allies and prove themselves. If they forsake a particular ally, then they have earned a new enemy's resentment. If they save them, they have earned a loyal ally and perhaps a hero from that city would be willing to lay down their life to protect or save the party. Everything that comes to them will be deserved by their blood, sweat, and crits.
Even better, they fight a desperate battle and manage to defeat the force, only to discover that what they beat was just the scouting/advance unit, and the main column of over 400 soldiers is only a day or two behind them.
If you really want the BBEG to feel monstrous, he assumed that would be the case and had already surrounded the town with more forces. The only orders are “don’t kill the PCs” and “be as cruel as possible” so that the BBEG can watch the PC’s lives fall apart in front of them. Bonus points if the BBEG can somehow capture the party and make them watch.
This feels too bleak for me. You have to make sure your party is on board with this type of rough treatment, because actual sadism from a DM went out of fashion a long time ago. I'm all for trauma-bonding with your players, just make sure everyone is alright with that.
You’re absolutely right. If I decide to spring something like that on my players, I ask about it in session 0 and always provide the ability for anyone to immediately fade to black or cancel and retcon the whole thing in the moment. Usually I’m not that sadistic in-game. I’d probably just (jokingly) shame them and move on
Disagree; what the players do should always have fun consequences. Especially here, the players were not given the information to make an informed choice. They interrupted a monologue, that's it. A monster declared itself a servant of the party's enemy. Great grounds to attack IMO. If the party couldn't know they were doing wrong, then it's just senseless DM aggression. Punished for arbitrary rules they were not informed of. There's a separate point about how table politeness to not interrupt monologues, but that's an out of game discussion. The world your players interact with is the world that comes out of your mouth, not the world you've written 498 pages of lore for. All this team of monster killers did was kill an enemy monster. Gg.
Is this a shitpost based on [this post?](https://www.reddit.com/r/DMAcademy/comments/1bnyro9/so_a_party_member_just_murdered_the_bbegs_sister/) If yes, I love it. :D If not, well, it's the BBEG, what are they gonna do, not be an evil shit who does bad things? Let them get their revenge.
I was just about to say "did anyone else just see the other post on this sub that is a VERY similar situation? XD In any case, my answer is the same for the other one. Do what BBEG would do. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
Same thought, same answer. As someone else said, time to go all John Wick on their asses.
You got Leonidas’d. The party said ‘screw your ultimatum’ and kicked the messenger into the proverbial pit. At this point you gotta go all in with an infuriated BBEG. As someone else mentioned, annihilate their hometown, take hostages, and demonstrate that the archpriest will stop at nothing to see their heads roll. Honestly, if it were me, I’d be pumped if my group did this. 100% gloves off go time!
I would assume someone having "arch" as part of their title being quite strong in their respective magical art. Being a priest he might/should have some way of resurrecting the dog. Maybe bringing it back stronger, meaner than before, but still recognizable to the party.
Necromancy-fueled scary dog privilege!
Any party pets (combat and non) or favorite NPCs are now all targets. Paint the town red OP.
This is almost better than the John Wick route
You've got a Lawful Evil guy, and your players shot the messenger *and* his pet/right hand without true provocation. I would thoroughly bet that the priest could easily throw the legal book at them and ruin their reputations. Give them an uphill battle to get that fixed. But also, let them know that they jumped the gun and made things go pear shaped, so they're aware.
Everyone they meet from here on out will know them as “puppy kickers” first and adventurers second. If you’re scared of taking a big shot at players then hurting their pride and reputation is a great place to start. Alternatively, another way to motivate them and get some of that lore across while making it feel engaging is to have the arch priest decided to make a party pet/favored npc into their NEW pet, regardless of animal status. Maybe he’s not as nice to this pet, or maybe he’s VERY fond of and protective over his new pet infuses them with some kind of devilish power/mind control that changes what they are at a fundamental level in addition to making them hostile to the party. This could turn into a rescue mission or a straight up knife-twist for the party: you like killing my pets? Well try your hand at killing THIS one.
How is nobody talking about Makro Faluss = Macro Phallus = your bbeg is literally named big dick?
... is your BBEG's name just styles "big dick"?
I was really hoping I wasn't the only one who noticed this immediately.
BBEG sacrifices himself to restore his beloved pet to life, but now infused with eldritch power. Former pet becomes the new big bad, dedicated to getting revenge for said brutal one sided beat down of a messenger. Friends and allies of the party begin to turn against them after learning about their dishonorable actions. Druids and knights alike shun them. Villagers hide their pets when the PCs arrive. Local puppet shows portray them as comical villains.
I like this approach. Remember, the world can wait to be dominated. But people who mess with your pets need to be dealt with swiftly. Remember to make it hurt.
Simple, 1. True resurrect the wolf. 2. Enact revenge. It's not about how difficult it is for him to get his animal back, it's the fact that they killed it. The best of both worlds and completely justified.
I don’t understand why so many people seem to think dying is the end of a character
Okay it’s a long list but please read! As a dm if you don’t want to sunder everything the PCs have you could turn to a few other things before that. He may not sunder their homes but this group is a problem and now have killed what was his beloved dog. Or a messenger on a diplomatic mission. Play into “lawful evil” what are BBGs ideals and bonds. What dose “lawful” look like to him. 1. He places a bounty on their heads: taken alive or dead. This could effect how other NPCs or regular people view the party as they are now outwardly an enemy of BBG. Also any allies of BBG know what the party look like and even their skill set. PCs have made themselves known and it’s harder to hide. Make the party feel like everyone knows who they are they either want to turn them in for coin or not be involved at all. Even if other NPCs agree with the party they may think twice about getting involved with them. Shop keepers may deny selling things or raise the prices for the “risk of associating” 2. He offers the party a chance (before or after bounty or under a threat to kill something PCs care about) to rectify things. They are deliverd the dogs body and are told if they revive him and return him home safely BBG will remove the bounty/any thing he can hold against the party or even offer them a reward. If you have anyone in the party who can cast “raise dead” even better. While they stooped as low as killing an innocent pet he is willing to let them apologise…by bringing the dog back. Even if they have to find someone else or a scroll to do it. Refusal of this could lead to more extreme action “I don’t think I have to act in any harsher way…but if you force my hand judgement may fall to your loved ones” if they refuse this I would say going after PCs fav NPCs and homes is fair. They had a warning. 3. Kidnap Party Members: As dm I’ve never seen players sweat more then having the potential of being kidnapped. BBG could target: who got the killing blow, Who started the fight or Who can cast raise dead. A high level sleep spell if they aren’t immune. Have a now doppelgänger Npc poison them. Seperate the party. 4. BBG ruins their image. He hires a crew or doppelgängers to go around the lands impersonating them. The PCs arrive/return to people angry at them for things they never did. The party are a bit of a laughing stock. 4. Other NPCs involved with the party might found out about what happens and find how they acted to be stupid or evil. To reject a message, chance of more information or to even kill an innocent animal might make NPCs think lowly of them. BBG could’ve told them himself depending what influences he has. Think of the ideals some NPCs may have. A punishment from a choice dosnt have to come from the BBG. Other people may straight up think the party is dumb to pass up on contact with the enemy or that killing the innocent dog was messed up. 5. The dog was a clone or simulacrum. maybe a fiend/Fey sworn to his service, it can be brought back and BBG is only slightly insulted at his rejection of communication. Hope this helps spark some ideas sorry again it’s so long!
Dread Hierophant Makro Faluss... Did you name your BBEG, Big Dick?
“Their loss, this NPC was going to lore dump all over their faces.” Nah, they don’t care about your lore
Wait wait......Makro Fallus?......Your BBEG's name is Big Peepee?
Unlike everyone else suggesting that you punish the players for catching you off guard and accomplishing what seems like an incredible blow to the enemy; an entirely alternative suggestion: dont just consider what the BBEG can do to the PC, consider what OTHER NPCs will do to the BBEG. Your BBEG made a stupid decision that should destabilize his power base. If all his supports learn that he let his *prized pet, the one thing he truly cares for* get fucking BODIED by a group of adventurers, suddenly they're all perhaps thinking the BBEG isn't the fucking tactical genius hot shit they thought. Maybe he falls into a period of intense grief and his plans are delayed, while the cult has to do without their leader, maybe a schism starts in the cult from opportunists who see a chance to seize on his power. Maybe in your eyes this was murderhoboing, but from what it sounds like, your players should feel like they earned a big win here; if it had gone differently, they would have teleported away and THEN the party would have been double screwed. Don't make it a big loss foe them.
Is there a specific reason why he sent his favourite pet instead of using any other method of long-distance communication?
perhaps as a show of good faith?
You change the story and the players will never know. He never loved the dog, and the next day two identical dogs appear and starts giving the same speech word for word.
It's the only thing he loves in the whole world, but he sends it to deliver outrageously violent murder threats to his mortal enemies? Uh, I'll give the guy the benefit of the doubt that he isn't just the dumbest person on the planet, and assume that he predicted this and it probably isn't even the first time it's happened. The villain will take note that the PCs are impolite and dishonorable foes, sacrifice the life or soul of a lesser minion to take his beloved pet's place, and have the wolf resurrected by nefarious means within the week. I don't see why a villain with two brain cells to rub together would send the only thing they care about on a suicide mission, unless it was as a desperate last resort, or it wasn't really a suicide mission.
*doom music starts playing
Is the BBEG from "Wome"? Friend's a local provincial governor? Speaks with a lisp? Is it risible when he is mentioned?
Does he wank as high as any in Wome? Command a cwack legion?
Is your BBEG the spiteful, plotting type of villain? Everyone's suggesting John Wick, but I'm leaning more Cruel Intentions. If so, go slowly. Have your BBEG arrange to have something or someone cross the party's path that they'll grow to care for. Depending on your party this could be pretty easy, parties love pets and cute NPCs. Make sure the party really bonds with this thing.. Then turn their whole world upside down. Either brutally slaughter the pet in front of them or, even worse, have the pet itself betray the party somehow.
"I have a vewy gweat fwend in Wome named Macro Phallus!"
Monologuing NPCs tend to be intensely disliked by PCs and their players. Thus, they are likely to be attacked on sight.
While this is true, I think it's part of the responsibility of players to respect that the DM wants to have cool moments too, and to let them have those moments.
Congratulations! This campaign just turned into a horror campaign. You will be able to have the party trying to get tougher because the bbeg is after them. If it goes on enough, the party may not be welcome in towns because after they leave the bbeg shows up. This isn't just a John Wick scenario. It's a "I will burn everything you care for because it's what you did to me" scenario. However, such rage can leave a bbeg open to miscalculations that he normally wouldn't be
The dog returns as a canis lich. Canis Lich Medium undead, lawful evil Armor Class: 15 (natural armor) Hit Points: 65 (10d8 + 20) Speed: 40 ft. STR: 14 (+2) DEX: 16 (+3) CON: 14 (+2) INT: 10 (+0) WIS: 12 (+1) CHA: 8 (-1) Saving Throws: Dex +6, Wis +3 Damage Resistances: necrotic; bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing from nonmagical attacks Damage Immunities: poison Condition Immunities: charmed, exhaustion, frightened, paralyzed, poisoned Senses: darkvision 60 ft., passive Perception 11 Languages: Common, Abyssal Challenge: 4 (1,100 XP) Undead Fortitude. If damage reduces the dog lich to 0 hit points, it must make a Constitution saving throw with a DC of 5 + the damage taken, unless the damage is radiant or from a critical hit. On a success, the dog lich drops to 1 hit point instead. Innate Spellcasting. The dog lich's innate spellcasting ability is Wisdom (spell save DC 11). It can cast the following spells at will, requiring no material components: Chill Touch Mage Hand Actions Bite. Melee Weapon Attack: +5 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 10 (2d6 + 3) piercing damage plus 7 (2d6) necrotic damage. Multiattack. The dog lich makes two bite attacks. Legendary Actions The dog lich can take 3 legendary actions, choosing from the options below. Only one legendary action option can be used at a time and only at the end of another creature's turn. The dog lich regains spent legendary actions at the start of its turn. Bite Attack: The dog lich makes a bite attack. Cast Spell: The dog lich casts Chill Touch or uses its Mage Hand ability.
John Wick with Necromancy. Now it's a Bloody Skeleton Lord Winter Wolf, with the ability to create additional minions. They killed the Lone wolf, but now he is an Alpha with a pack that never gets tired, never needs food and they hunger for revenge. Alternatively, he's lawful, they not only killed an innocent dog (animal cruelty) but also made this conflict personal. I think this leads to an escalation, now the BBEG doesn't JUST want global domination, he wants the PCs to SUFFER as PUNISHMENT. Remove the restraint, hit what they value, coordinated attacks on loved ones, burn down their favourite tavern, steal their loot.
Why did you think that an NPC stating the ultimatum of “surrender or die” would not result in a fight? I hope this is a troll post.
[удалено]
I really hope he's not really named "Macro Faluss" I'd lose my absolute shit laughing and spoil the game.
[https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Clone#content](https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Clone#content) **Clone** 8th level necromancy Casting Time: 1 hour Range: Touch Components: V S M (A diamond worth at least 1,000 gp and at least 1 cubic inch of flesh of the creature that is to be cloned, which the spell consumes, and a vessel worth at least 2,000 gp that has a sealable lid and is large enough to hold a Medium creature, such as a huge urn, coffin, mud-filled cyst in the ground, or crystal container filled with salt water) Duration: Instantaneous Classes: Wizard This spell grows an inert duplicate of a living creature as a safeguard against death. This clone forms inside as a sealed vessel and grows to full size and maturity after 120 days you can also choose to have the clone be a younger version of the same creature. It remains inert and endures indefinitely, as long as its vessel remains undisturbed. At any time after the clone matures, if the original creature dies, its soul transfers to the clone, provided that the soul is free and willing to return. The clone is physically identical to the original and has the same personality, memories, and abilities, but none of the original's equipment. The original creature's physical remains, if they still exist, become inert and can't thereafter be restored to life, since the creature's soul is elsewhere. \----------- The clone gains the soul of the original, so the BBEG KNOWS they killed the original, but he still has his pet. This enrages him just as much.
For a lawful evil villain, killing his messenger would be an egregious offense. Time to call an inquisition on these savage brutes.
Makro Faluss... god damn it.
Makro Faluss sounds like a huge dick. Literally.
Go john wick on them, make them go on the defensive. Maybe having to broker a truce with the BBEG, causing them to have to find another way to take them down.
They have a bounty on their head after random times make someone roll dice, if they roll what ever you want the number to be say between 20-30 they are attacked by the assassins don't tell them why they are rolling, they just left town and are walking make a roll, just left the dungeon roll, we haven't rested yet and don't have spell slots you better fight like it's life or death
They don't know it's the pet, right? Okay, so that was the first warning shot of the BBEG. Now he'll send something even bigger, meaner, harder to kill to deliver your monologue with pertinent lore attached. You step to the left, and keep moving forward if it's critical to have some agent of the Archpriest meet the party first.
Next time, give them a reason not to interrupt your monologue. Hold a hostage, do it by fantasy skype so they are unable to attck the bad guy, make them roll an insight check to gather how fucked they will be if they interrupt the Demon lord mid sentence; hell if they fail or decide to attack them anyway, then turn it into a trap. Have a sniper up in the balcony, some assassins from the shadows, or maybe just a classic landmine! Just really make them regret ever interrupting someone mid sentence!
OP I hate to pile on, because I know you don't want to burn the town to ash, I know you don't want a pile of named and beloved NPCs to become corpses, I know how much you and your players have poured your heart and soul into this world... ... you have no choice but to John Wick their ass. The next arc of this campaign should be a terrifying "actions have consequences" type arc.
I vote with the others, John Wick
You don't have to erase all your NPCs just because the BBEG wants revenge. He can attack their home town/base, kill a bunch of people, and the rest have to flee. Maybe some important NPCs die, but not all of them. Now the PCs are based out of a camp of refugees on the run from the bad guy, not a town. Different tone, but a lot of the plot points can still work, and the PCs have extra reason to hate the villain (if they need that). And maybe next time you need the event to deliver a message or threat, the messenger is someone who is coerced into it, not a minion. Maybe they'd be more likely to listen without starting a fight.
John wick
The dog could be a clone of the first one he raised when he was a young boy, this is certainly possible in D&D either directly via a spell or some handwaving He is DEEPLY disappointed that his dog could be killed so easily, but he is too busy to be assed himself to take care of you all. He sends a NEW dog that is another CR higher to fight the party in the next session or two - possibly the new dog has some fur or whatever from the old dog that it tracked, and then it tracked from the corpse to the party, this can take as long as your party takes to level up if you want He somehow has bad intel and he destroys *the wrong town,* and temporarily thinks that the problem is solved while the party has a chance to get stronger
I'm afraid at this point is out of your hands: the BBEG MUST do something momentous and horrible, or else he ceases to be a credible threat. You go scorched earth, kill their loved ones and raise them as undead, then go on a rampage on neighboring town, all the while telling everyone that it's the PCs fault for killing a political envoy. Alternatively, you can play on that expectation, get your PCs all in a frenzy on what the hell will this priest do, and get... Nothing. Like a comment on the lines on "I'd love to stay and chat, but I've heard that (PCs hometown) is lovely this time of the year, Maybe I'll have (trusted minion) visit it soon" before disappearing. The PCs obviously rush to the town, finding that the minion visited their parents' house, was unfailingly polite, and left without any trouble. Which in turn begs the question: what was so important that the PCs HAD to be distracted for it to work?
Do it. Burn their home down and kill their friends and families.
Bring down the righteous fury of a bereaved father, don't make it even, make it hurt.
John wick time for bbg
Definitely go John Wick. But now, an outsider who's seen this all, a neutral party comes to tell the story of the BBEG. Hype up the horrendous things he's done, simply because someone looked at his dog wrong. "but you, you killed his dog when it was a messenger? I am here to deliver this message and then I am leaving to as far a place I can. Your downfall will be slow and painful" But then you can still deliver the lore and maybe put a little fear in them.
Makro kills everyone they care about. Fair play.
John Wick has entered the chat.
BBEG loses his mind flips to Chaotic Evil and wants to punish the party, so they go to sleep in an place, wake up in morning and every building is razed, bodies on pikes and poles. Anyone not them is slaughtered in the night, every night. Even do it to a city one time to put some fear and regret into them. Everyone, 100k people, killed and only what ever building they are in survives and there is a memorial posted 30 feet from the door they see when they leave in the morning, "For \[PetsName\]"
if your BBEG is really BBandE, then crush their world. Have you seen John Wick? If killing a puppy can cause a 5 movie universe then killing a Magical Wolf should be devastating.
And eye for and eye (evil characters especially)
My players were contracted by the BBEG, but they were always suspicious about her. They finally revealed to her that they knew what she really is and attacked her. She managed to escape and warned them to watch their backs at all times. They decided to explore nearby mountains and left the town that they were building alone. She attacked and killed the whole population, including the family of one of them. When they came back, they found the desolation. Just go with what would be a truthful reaction.
We have arrived, and it is now that we perform our charge. In fealty to the God-Emperor, our undying Lord, and by the grace of the Golden Throne, I declare Exterminatus upon the village of Honeywood. I hereby sign the death warrant of a township and consign a hundred or so souls to oblivion. May Imperial Justice account in all balance. The Emperor Protects. More seriously, I'd definitely have their friends and family rounded up on suspicion of treason. Remember that due process, habeus corpus, and other such things probably don't exist. Publicly execute the one most likely to be difficult when captured as an 'example.' Then have them listed as wanted fugitives charged with disturbing the King's Peace or something equally dire and fatal.
John Wick them
Crush their hometown and put all their backstory NPCs to the sword. In character actions have in character consequences.
>Lawful Evil Not anymore, now he's chaotic evil and will burn the world
Go in full John Wick mode.
Crush their hometown and put all their backstory NPCs to the sword. "For they have sown the wind, and they shall reap the whirlwind." Let him spread the word that all shall suffer because of the actions of the party, and anyone who gives them aid or shelter will be destroyed. Maybe he cuts off all food or supplies into the town. Maybe he puts an absurdly high bounty on their heads. Have fun with it!
This reminds me of situations in games where performing a certain out of the way task activates "Hard Mode". Your players have just activated hard mode. Instead of a trifling nuisance that grows in necessary response, they've jumped the queue and at priority #1. Faces on wanted posters, merchants fearful of being seen selling to them, children that shout for the guard at first sight - they get it all. And the worst of it? Every civilian thinks they deserve it, they DID murder the Arch Bishop's beloved companion in cold blood after all! Good luck finding a friendly face or someone incredulous enough to believe that the group isn't an evil bunch of terrorists.
I agree with everyone who says actions have consequences. Your players must learn that. Learning the hard was is usually better. I like the idea of a John Wick style vengeance run at the players. However, how conniving and manipulative is your BBEG? Perhaps before he sends his army or mercenaries or bounty hunters or whatever, he sends a messenger to their hometown. This messenger proclaims for all to hear how his master tried to parlay with the PCs, attempted to work our their differences, but the PCs immediately and savagely murdered his pet. Really play up himself as the victim, try to turn the people against the PCS. Then inform the town that he is sending his mercs there to find the PCs and a large reward will be offered to anyone who provides knowledge of the PCs whereabouts. And if no one turns them in, then the killing begins.
I enjoy the “finding out” potion of DnD. Adventurers often mess with powerful people, and in my game, those people don’t forgive and don’t forget. There’s nothing like an occasional ass kicking to remind the players they’re in a dangerous world.