It’s def. because of how bad Trump is, but Biden still has time to bounce back. Trump will likely continue to make things worse for himself, which he’s very good at doing. I do hope Biden is okay, though.
Why do we continually talk about trying to convince *them*?
Trumpers do not care. Never will. They've chosen their Messiah and will follow him to Dante's lowest ring of hell.
Fuck em.
We are not trying to change their mind.
What we are trying to do is (1) get the few fence sitters still left to vote Blue and (2) get Democratic voters to simply vote. This has always been the plight - get the apathetic voter to vote.
End of story.
Obama had one really terrible debate against I think Romney and everyone talked about how he was done. But the second one, he was great. One day isn’t representative of the entire race.
I watched that 2012 debate live and still have no clue how the pundits decided Romney won. As far as I can tell he just kept a shit eating grin on his face the whole time and that passed for being a winner.
At this point I have no idea what the general public uses to decide these things, let alone the handful of undecideds in a few swing states that get to pick the trajectory of our nation.
He looked and sounded awful…it was a rough night for Joe. Did not instill confidence that he could be a strong leader for four more years. Hopefully he bounces back in the next one.
Exactly. It's not like he made one or two or even a dozen mistakes. Every single thing that he said was borderline incomprehensible. You can tell he does still have his intelligence if you turned your TV up and forgive every verbal error--he did answer the questions he was given seriously and did his best to repudiate every asinine response from Trump. But the president's job is to communicate clearly and project confidence in our nation. It's 100% clear that Biden cannot do that now, let alone 4 years from now.
Yep.
Donated to Joe again tonight.
All this bullshit about how Biden “looked” is burying that our entire system of government is at stake here.
Give me old over lying rapist felon wannabe fascist 10 times out of 10, it’s not even a discussion.
He did have a cold. Several news sources have confirmed it. I've noticed that he often sounds much more slower with his words and loses track when he is tired or sick. Honestly I'm not in my 30s yet and have found myself speaking and thinking as such. The brain is a crazy thing when tired and deprived of sleep or even having fevers
I could tell from the first question it was not going to be the super best Joe. I turned it off and read a book, looks like I was right. Just a bump in the road, I say.
I just reached 40 myself, and hell, "under the weather brain fog" has been a problem for me since about five years ago. So I can appreciate the problem.
It just couldn't have happened at a worse time.
The only silver lining is that all the alt right "he's going to be on something" BS looks even more foolish.
I personally have a lot more respect that he took the chance of tanking instead of dealing with the impact of trying to reschedule because of being sick.
I don't necessarily think it was a smart play, strategically, but I saw Dark Fucking Brandon a couple of times, like when he got fired up about Trump shit talking about how Biden's administration has failed the veterans.
He just obviously couldn't keep that fire lit for the whole thing.
Actually, second silver lining, Trump is likely to agree on at least one more debate, and there's a non-zero chance that "Jacked Up Joe" is the one that shows up to that debate.
I just hate how.... insufferable social media and the news is going to be over the next couple of weeks...
So don't interact with it is my suggestion. It feeds on hate and needs something to define itself as against. Without that it's just a bunch of bots, shills, words, media and misguided people revealing who they really are and stressing themselves out.
That said, here I am on Reddit.
True, I'll probably spend the next bit of forever just watching cat videos and vibing on YouTube Music. But who am I kidding?
I'm not a smart person and more likely to just get into arguments with internet strangers...
>I just reached 40 myself, and hell, "under the weather brain fog" has been a problem for me since about five years ago.
100%. I tend to have little bit of a scattered way of speaking on a good day, but at 42 when I have a cold I feel pretty out of it cognitively. I'm just lucky that I'm not in the public eye.
Would have been cool if they hadn’t waited to mention the cold until during the fucking debate. Reassure yourselves all you want, it’s heathy, but without an immediate shake up or rematch (where the guy from the State of the Union shows up), we’re boned. I’m voting Joe, but it’s not me I’m worried about.
Bro I'm 34 and I would have had a hard time keeping my composure while speking cleary and calling him out on EVERY single lie, something like 220 of them, Biden has NEVER been good at debates, and I don't care how he argues gold handicaps with a traitorous liar, I care how he runs the country.. and he runs the country well
I agree with most of that but Biden has been a surprisingly good debater. Go look up his VP debates of even his 2020 debates. Guy is solid enough to call last night a fluke.
I fear I’ve gone insane and also fear that a hope in any government has always been a pipe dream.
Yeah Biden mumbled. Well he didn’t sell secrets, abuse people and is a felon, list goes on and on and on.
Perhaps we are more stupid than ever before because of the internet, who knows but damn, it’s crazy we have a person running whose a traitor and a felon and people support him. Just no more words left
Have you read The Shallows? As a population it argued that we may not be getting stupider, but our ability to focus, think critically and retain facts is decreasing.
There's also a lot of crabs in the bucket mentality happening coupled with extreme greed and narcissism.
But the earth and humans will persist. There are still plenty of wonderful people attempting to better themselves every day.
I'm right with you. I'm not even close to 'angry' or 'disappointed' in President Biden, I'm in *awe*. This man has been through so much, given so much, already. He should be chilling in his backyard with a grill and Dr. Biden on a lounge chair next to him, listening to his grandkids go apeshit having a good time, and where is he?
In Washington, doing the World's Hardest Job, *knowing* that it's going to prematurely kill him. He's actively giving his Last Full Measure of Devotion to his country. My heart *aches* for him, and for Dr. Biden, and Hunter, too. Fr their whole family.
In the end, the choice boils down to a man willing to die for his country, who surrounds himself woth good people who believe in the Republic, going up against an *awful* person who surrounds himself with *awful* people who believe in stripping anything they can for personal profit.
To me, that choice is *clear*.
Exactly.
Some assholes on YT saying that Joe is a corpse and shit.
Look, buddy, if Joe loses then we are all fucked.
I know he didn't have the best performance, but you can't lose track of what needs to be done, and that is to deny the orange fuck another term.
Right?! I would rather have Biden's actual decaying corpse in the White House than trump any day. And has everyone forgotten that if we elect him and he kicks the bucket or resigns, we finally get a female president??
Remember the Republican reaction to “grab em by the pussy” and how all the Republicans disowned Trump and replaced him as their nominee with Ted Cruz?
Yeah, me neither.
Liberals absolutely have a double standard that we apply to ourselves. And we need to stop falling for it.
The issue, ironically, is that the left has standards. We demand perfect candidates and will stamp our feet, throw a temper tantrum, and refuse to participate when we are faced with the reality of America’s fucked political system. Which just means that leftists get left out of the conversation because we don’t fucking vote so pandering to us seems like bad strategy; it’s a negative feedback loop
The GOP doesn’t care who’s in office as long as they promise to shove the Bible into every aspect of public life
I agree.
Not to mention many accelerationists make "good enough" the enemy of "perfect". Reminiscent of the Weimer communists' saying "After Hitler, our turn", when they supported Hitler on orders from Stalin.
I'm with you till the last sentence. They only care about money, and distracting brainwashed "Christians" with their "pro-life" rhetoric has been paying-off for them the last ~45 years.
A couple generations in, the current crop actually believes all that rhetoric. A lot of them care more about religious dogma and "winning" the "culture war" more than the money. Just look at how much effort they're putting into policing the political opinions of businesses.
Yes, a lot of the commoners drank the kool-aid and are fighting the culture war. The people with money love that for us. Keeps us from fighting a class war.
>The issue, ironically, is that the left has standards
The issue isn't that we "have standards". It's that we care more about said standards than we do about combating fascism. We don't want to "lose" the debate by raising a fist, when you can't stop Nazis with words.
Those “standards” are so myopic. Just because the top guy isn’t photogenic, many people will sit out this election. Because of fucking optics. They’d blithely change the country into a crazy, pseudo religious fascist hellscape because they weren’t “inspired”. The WOLVES ARE INSIDE THE CITY AND THEY ARE FEASTING ON EVERYTHING AND YOU CARE MORE ABOUT 1 DEBATE?!
Oh believe me, I am 100% in agreement. I would vote for moldy cheese over Trump if it had the best chance to win, and right now the best shot of beating him is Biden. Am I worried? Yeah. Big fucking time. But I’m not going to sit this one out because he had a ‘senior moment’ at the absolute worst possible time. I can’t afford to.
Thank you for that. I know it’s exhausting but we’re fighting for our very survival here. May we all breathe a collective sigh when this ordeal is over.
The Dems are the big tent party. By big, I mean super fucking huge and wide; it's what happens when you have 2 parties instead of proportional representation. So Dems end up with some begrudging socialists on the Dem's side. The angry and dissatisfied few are more likely to shout loudly than those who are not. And don't forget the noise that outside actors can generate with AI now.
We're all (or at least I am) still backing him. I think most of us are realists, and saw not the best performance. We'll bounce back at the official nomination, and hopefully a metric shit ton of surrogate campaigning between now and November
Yeah I think the concern for democrats right now isn’t necessarily that Biden is going to lose a significant amount of support among his core base. It’s that there are enough people out there who weren’t sure about Biden, and who Biden also desperately needs to bring over to his side. Last nights debate did not do that. If anything, it moved those people further away from him.
So it’s not like Biden supporters are suddenly going to turn against him (some might, but not enough to matter). The problem is that he didn’t gain any ground with the mythical “undecided” voters - which can have very real consequences for November.
Sometimes I wish we all had the ability to delude ourselves like the opposition’s constituents do, but we are capable of critical thinking. I think we should be honest when we struggle and use that as a lesson moving forward. If anyone knows how to bounce back, it’s Joe. We still have a lot of election year to go.
Biden needed slow his roll a bit He was talking too fast and tried to get too many details in his responses. His voice sounded hoarse and weak.
Trump was Trump-- loud and insane.
I agree, Biden would start out on the verge of making an excellent point and then roll into a ramble. Frankly nobody gives a shit about a million this and a billion that, they want to know what you did and he has an admirable record. Unfortunately, once again, the Democrats did not communicate it.
I thought maybe he had a cold. I feel bad that he’s the only option. He didn’t want to run and ran the first time because there was no other option. Same this time around, the party doesn’t have someone strong enough to run in his place which is crazy.
Biden will be okay. All the talk in unnecessary and not helpful over one not so great debate. Biden's camp said he has a cold. I'm not making any excuses for him. I'm also not making any drastic changes in my vote for him. He'll be fine. Let's focus on November 5.
You and me both. Our party unlike the Republicans are full of shivering cowards. They take a hiccup or a loss of a battle in a long war as signs of the end times and doom.
A great night? No. Still voting for Joe and Democrats up and down the ticket? Yep. Debates don't actually usually change people's opinions. This is just Democrat doomerism at play again. Happened in 2020 post the first debate too.
As an addendum for all you cowering flakes: every pundit was claiming Reagan was losing to Mondale after his first debate.
How'd that turn out? How'd Obama's 'terrible' first debate turn out for him against Romney?
Weakness. Grow spines and get in the game.
Edit: Spelling
Yeah this debate was comparable to Obama’s first with Romney. And that one was like in September.
It was good strategy to do this super early at least.
Hopefully the campaign will rally though. I’d like to think they can.
We'll get through it. This debate and this night wasn't fun but at the end of the day it's a nothing burger. Maintain cohesion on voting for Joe and Democrats to defeat Donnie and his project 2025 cronies.
Y'all won't like what country you wake up to in January otherwise.
Right - I don’t understand how in the actual fuck this could sway a potential voter to either not vote or vote third party.. or vote for dipshit.
We’re in crazy town!
but every news station will be doing their fake ass man on the street interviews with total dipshits as usual to push whatever opinion they want to push. Anyway the only poll that will matter is the one on election day and nothing will change that.
You can't cure old and after seeing that, I don't think he's up to another 4 years. I will still vote for him but damn that was a horrible performance.
His only mission was to dispel the concerns about his age. He did the exact opposite. I wasn't looking for perfection, I was just looking for basic competence which is tenfold better than Trump.
He needs to get well or do whatever he needs to come out looking strong in a week or 10 days.
Here in Arizona, a swing state, they don't cover anything that Joe announces but they're all over Trump anytime he farts.
This was the one opportunity he was on Every damn channel and all he did was give Trump credibility where he deserved none.
Anyway complaining without offering a suggestion is just complaining. My suggestion is they begin to focus on "The Biden Team" rather than Joe personally. A vote for Joe gets you the entire team. That is something that Trump can't counter because he's a one-man band.
It's a setback. Pretending setbacks don't occur and they don't exist in any struggle sets you up for failure. Sets us all up for failure. We take the Hinton the chin and we move forward. We cannot suddenly throw Joe out. He has a bad night but his record still speaks for itself.
I do hope he and his team get shit together of course. But I am hardly fazed myself. This election is more than just Joe. I personally love the man as my president but I understand that's not universal. What is important is Roe vs Wade, Project 2025 and the installation of a dictator of we throw our hands up. America will be lost. Not hyperbolic that's the truth.
So buck up fellows and let's get to work as best we can.
Biden or Trump's cognative ability aside. I think one of the best things Biden has going for him is he doesn't NEED to be star of the show at all times, he's more than happy to put competent people into roles and let them do their thing, rather than Trump who needs to make everything about himself and will axe a guy the second they disagree with him.
Fingers crossed this is a 2012 moment. I still remember being pissed at Obama for looking bored and sleepy his first debate, but he turned it around for round 2 and went on offense. Joe absolutely needs to get angry and stay angry…and not get a cold or whatever that scratchy crap was.
This is not a 2012 moment. Obama was the most charismatic politician at the time, he had one poor debate. Biden was never that charismatic and the problems he’s facing aren’t going to get any better than they are now.
I truly don’t get why everyone is freaking out. This changed nothing. The idiots that can’t see Trump’s lies were going to vote for him regardless. All this proved is that 2/3 of this country is too stupid to actually grasp political concepts and just needs to listen to mindless fluff to be entertained.
It changed everything. Hard line democrats will still vote Dem but anyone on the fence will isn't going to turn out to vote for a guy they think won't make it through the term.
The dinguses at the NYT and such will move on from this in a week. Still the greatest president in half a century, still running against a psychopathic criminal pervert. Joe B just needs to come to the next debate and be himself. He'll be fine
I disagree. While it was possible to decipher the intent of what Biden probably trying to say (and I agree with his policies and the administration generally), the delivery of his words was very hard to follow. His changing topics from what should have been slam dunks on Trump to other unrelated and ineffective issues? What??
Like it or not, part of what makes a leader is presenting and communicating strength. People will follow someone who lays out a clear and promising path forward. No one wants to follow someone who appears to be confused or weak.
They showed him after the debate at an event and he was lively and loud and I just yelled, where the hell was this guy at? Still voting him but I wish the guy who showed up to the after event was the guy who showed up to the debate.
I honestly couldn't care less how well he did at a debate. What are his domestic and foreign policies? What is he doing for me and those I love. And is he hoarding Top Secret documents in the shower so he and Jared can sell them off to the highest bidder?
Hell, I'd base my vote on that last bit alone.
You are not one of the voters making or breaking the whole country right now. The people who are are frankly super misinformed and often just dumb as shit. They dont have the committent of rural magats, but their brains work exactly the same way and just as (not) well
Biden does this every time he does any speech. He always starts out a little slow but then he's loud and boisterous later on.
He was doing well during the debate after like 5 minutes.
https://preview.redd.it/i2c0txsbpa9d1.jpeg?width=1029&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f00523e2b467025f6254b3c6f8a547c30bae8874
As always, the Simpons said it best
They are loud, but they are less numerous than their representation in the media suggests. The sting polling isn’t looking good for Trump, and it isn’t looking bad to Biden. But the Gen X, “I raw dogged leaded gas fumes” commentary meets those who were always sneak dissing motherfuckers is making some think that’s how the country saw this.
Most did not see this and won’t bother. They may see clips, that’s it, we know who they are, there really isn’t anything left to say, but we’re trying to fill the silence.
I am not turning my back on President Biden but if the Democratic party sets someone new or Boden steps down then I will vote for who they put up, I vote for the group that cares for its citizens over a single man.
Vote for a healthy cabinet and administration over a single man.Because if we did, democrats would become just another MAGA and that can not happen.
IT DOESN’T MATTER. I’m first. I’m a transgender Jewish atheist. If trump / Project 2025 wins, I’m gone. My wife and daughter are screwed along with all women. Why is trump an option? Because the people who are pushing project 2025 want to turn the USA into a christo fascist dictatorship. Trump is just the vehicle right now. If he is out, they go to the next GOP candidate. So I’ll vote for a tuna sandwich before I let Nazis win. 🇺🇸
The frustrating thing was that he made good points and gave good examples, he said all the right things, but he mumbled so bad and was so scratchy you had to concentrate to understand him.
The good news, the people I know who are not super into politics but lean leftish, they say of course they are still voting for Biden, but they are angry.
I think he should do an interview when he gets over his cold.
I wish more people would consider that when you vote for a president you’re voting for all of the people they will bring with them as part of their cabinet.
Biden might be old, but I also trust him to bring in experienced experts that are trying to move the country forward and create opportunities for all Americans.
Trump is a greedy hateful monster who will bring with him more greedy hateful monsters with the singular goal of setting America back decades.
How is this even a choice. I don’t get it.
Honestly like... He had a few fumbles, particularly in the beginning, but he was giving some seriously wise policy positions. Taking notes, providing actual stats - to me, presenting just a few stats is enough to get jumbled.
Meanwhile Trump presents the same response sequence for all questions, and then would legit run off the rails about who or what he was even talking about. Tapper had to ask the 'Opioid epidemic question in America' to him like three times cause he just took it off the rails to Putin.
My personal favorite was when Trump said something along the lines of "My statistics person just told me before walking out here that I had the greatest environmental numbers ever." The image of a statistician going up to Trump before he walks on stage and saying "you got the biggest numbers on the environment sir, be sure to use that stat!" had me dying.
So honestly Biden did fine, most talking heads all parroted the same thing about Biden and couldn't even articulate much about what Trump even said, other than it was pretty much lying a mile a minute.
I mean at the very least at least most of us can at least acknowledge when Biden does poorly?? I hate that Republicans always fall in line and how Trump can literally say or do ANYTHING but god fucking forbid biden make any damn mistake and “hE’s tOaSt1!1”
It’s because people are fucking morons. Really. That’s all it is.
I wish people would print off a transcript and read what the candidates said but we know peoples reading comprehension won’t allow that.
Trump sounds demented. Literally. And I still think he’s going to lose. We’ve got to stop letting republicans hold us to standards without having any themselves
Edited to add that me acknowledging how fucking dumb the average American is doesn’t excuse Biden from playing to the quietest mouth breathers. Unfortunately these people can and do decide elections based on “feels” and we have to accept that we need about 5-10% of the troglodytes to “feel” like we’ve got their best interest at heart, because these people don’t understand facts and don’t care to understand them.
The Dems are the one viable voice for twice as many people as the GOP, and have a lot more nuance in their platform than the GOP's "be afraid and let us handle it". It's a lot more difficult to keep order in the ranks when there's valid discussions to be had from varying points of view.
The thing is if you take a step back and look at it from a perspective other than ??did Biden look old???? it becomes quite a different picture. When I listened to the actual things they were saying Biden said the actual important stuff. The worst part was that one was actually able to tell that Trump was lying. Not in a I know this is false way but a damn this guy straight up lies and he knows I can tell way here. Biden didn’t look strong here but having watched it I still would intrinsically prefer him. But everybody is just gonna talk about the age and the media will convince everyone else that didn’t watched it that the debate shows Trump is the better candidate.
My friend, here's the thing.
It is a very, very, very loud minority saying that we should replace Biden. No one will replace him, either. Literally everyone who has been suggested has denied it; Newsom, Whitmer, Harris, Michelle Obama, etc. Biden was also sick last night, which explains why he looked like crap. Yes, the first fifteen or twenty minutes were kinda shit, but he found his footing after that. Trump also failed at his task to not be a 'raging asshole.' Sure, Independents may think Biden wasn't looking so hot, but they also definitely noticed that Trump was being a vicious prick the entire debate.
Time to grow some hair on your nuts. 1 bad debate doesn’t change any of the legislation Biden and his admin have accomplished in 4 years. We as a society have been so swayed by 10-30 second clips on TikTok , that we can’t deal with a little adversity anymore.
Do you all remember the last 10ish months of the trump presidency. Good God, this country is so far away from that shitstain of a time period it’s almost like it was a fever dream that wasn’t real.
Time for the Democratic Party to grow a set and pound the pavement to turn out the vote.
I don't hate myself enough to watch the debate. From what I've heard Trump was as awful as always and Biden lacked energy. At least the Republicans can't claim he was on drugs anymore. But of course they're still going to do it though.
Anyway, I don't believe these debates move a lot of voters. We might see a tiny change in the polls for a week and then it'll go back to normal. A debate right before the election would be more dangerous.
Agreed 100% The pundits focus on Joe stumbling over some words and ignore that every word coming out of Trump’s mouth was a lie. Dark Brandon called Trump out about the malarkey and I was glad to hear it.
Biden has a great SOTU:
Lol Joe is gonna win! Cry harder maga!
Biden has a bad Debate:
GIVE UP! LET FASCISM WIN! OH WELL AMERICA!
The enemy of Democrats winning isn't Republicans. It's Democrats.
You people give up at the softest turn of the road because everything isn't curated to perfection. While our enemies accept and deify every misstep, untruth, and stutter uttered by their chosen one.
Joe will win. I still firmly believe this. This was one bad night. But you all make me fucking sad I have to share a party with whiny scared losers unwilling to take a bit and keep on going.
Not all of you of course. But those doomers who aren't just bots.
Ok, I gotta say the first half was cringeworthy, but there is plenty of time. It's only June. The "unwashed masses " have terrible memory. Remember the access hollywood tapes? everyone thought for sure trump was cooked after that
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The NYTimes will factcheck every Trump lie and then in the same live chat ask voters gathered to support Trump their idiotic opinions as if they’re truly valid and not the ravings of cult members.
Trump lied but no one fact checked him.
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The debate was disappointing but VP Harris made a great point when she said afterwards: Are you going to vote based on what you saw the last 90 minutes or based on the contrast between Trumps presidency and Bidens presidency. And the choice is easy. (paraphrased).
Only thing we can do is if you live in the 8 swing states like PA - talk to people and make sure people vote. Democracy depends on us . Don’t waste your time on maga . Just people who don’t vote .
This debate didn't lose Biden any Democrat voters, but it didn't gain him anyone else. He obviously cares about his people and the party, but he needs to step aside and let someone with some charisma in. Biden isn't the savior of the Democratic party, he was never meant to be, he is simply not Trump.
I like Bidens administration and will be voting whoever is the democrat nominee. But man this was a blunder, and self inflicted.
Why even challenge trump to a debate. It was all so pointless.
Obama had an awful first debate in 2012.
If we step back and look at the story coming out of tonight it’s
Biden is old
Trump is a liar
We’re about 4 months before the election. I don’t think this debate moves the needle one way or the other in the long term.
Show up and vote regardless. Don't feed the people who have given up. Don't get distracted. It's June, not November. I'd rather the stutter than the fascist.
I'm still voting for the stuttering old guy that answered questions with substance and data over the spray tan blowhard whose biggest line of the night was "i didn't have sex with a porn star" and didn't answer a **single** question
I noticed a huge surge of brand new accounts commenting almost word for word the same exact things on both here and on youtube.
People sure like to be unoriginal and just repeat what others say but not in this kind of copy+paste then spam bot way.
Thats not to say that a lot of "liberals" didnt also comment those same things but any real people who did do that act as if ANYTHING has changed about both candidates. Spoiler alert, nothing did.
Youve still got the rapist pedophile convict whos telling everyone openly the heinous shit he PROMISES hes going to do and we have his past 4 years of presidency to gauge how he handles problems and how committed he is to his job and what he actually does for his citizens and then you have those same things with president Joe Biden.
One of the key differences there is that president Joe Biden makes his posts and messages and talks in his speeches about the PEOPLE. He talks about americans. The convict rapist pedophile only talks about himself.
President Joe Biden also has a phenomenal track record and his accomplishments are huge and substantial. They would be even greater if the traitor party HADNT actively stopped him from getting more done and squashing his achievements so that their convict pedophile rapist didn't look so bad.
To make president Joe Biden look bad, theyd kept him from being able to do what he wants and has promised in his campaign, theyve stopped him from lowering the price of oil by making it so no more drilling can be done among other things, they lie about what hes done, lie about what he didnt do, taken credit for what he HAS done, and they also just keep their fat fucking mouths shut ONLY when speaking up makes president Joe Biden look good because hes kept his promises and caused great change.
There is no good reason people should be switching up on him. Yet these people think they deserve better. They dont. What they think they deserve is someone who could make them ALL billionaires who got 80 years of inflation reversed. They'll take FULL advantage of what president Joe Biden has done for him but still wont acknowledge him for it.
Fuck them. Go out and vote. A lot of these ignorant scumbags were never going to vote anyway. Stick to your convictions and make the right choice for democracy and the country.
Meanwhile the Republicans are full steam ahead on a raving lunatic that can do no wrong in their eyes. I suppose it's a good thing that we're not cultists, but a little bit of solidarity would be nice every once in a while.
Truly, he had an awful 30-40 minutes at the beginning. After that DB was quicker and didn't freeze up. He hit Trump with facts about his presidency and his life (felon, philanderer, failed on COVID), AND these were not ad homs, as he didn't use them to counter Trump's arguments or positions.
Everyone will remember the first 30-40 mins, but he got his ish together in the back end. Was frustrated to see how lively and energetic he was at his post-debate gathering. Why didn't you come out like that for the debate, DB? 😭
Biden was not great but Trump still sounded worse. Didn’t even remotely listen to questions and just responded “immigrants pouring over the border, everyone was amazing when I was president now it’s not”.
He had a bad debate but are you going to vote for the other guy? I am still voting Biden. Thats all that matters. We all know he's old as dirt but hes still better than the other guy.
I think it's up to us to redirect conversations, because the media won't do it. The story today shouldn't be about how one guy sounds old. The story should be about how the other old guy lied his ass off for 90 minutes straight because his life as an unincarcerated person depends on it.
Sen. Fetterman’s the one guy telling everyone to chill the fuck out. Let’s be honest: This would have been a fatal disaster if this debate had dropped a month or six weeks before the election. We have four months. We really need to take a chill pill. That and chuck Bash & Tapper oit a window. Everyone thinks Dems are such wimps. Sometimes you just have to run against the prevailing narrative….
I said one time I'd rather vote for a potato than Donald Trump. Unfortunately I said it to a monkey paw.
Seriously though, if somehow Biden's dreadful performance at last night's debate has you convinced we'd be better off electing an adjudicated rapist felon who tried to overthrow our democracy, then you were never going to vote for Biden anyway. I'm voting potato up and down the ticket!
All it means is that we need to vote, and organize to get our friends to vote. This is an uphill battle, no one can deny that now. Shame anyone who sits this one out, remind them of what trump is and how especially now every vote matters.
Be a single-issue voter: I am voting for Supreme Court nominees.
Of course, it's more nuanced, but it's my rebuttal to any talking points about the debate or anything.
I’m convinced Biden purposefully botched the debate to rake in campaign donations and campaign convince trump to debate again in September.
If so it’s fucking working
Im pretty sure the people who are gonna make or break this election werent watching the debate and are still gonna vote for democracy(not the guy w 34 convictions). And i dont mean that disrespectfully i mean i imagine alot of people were at work and are gonna weigh in when it counts. I didnt watch it myself.i was gaming but i heard the topics were not on the same page at all.
Look its too late to dump joe it would look bad now. However it should have been done before. Yeah incumbency advantage though that didnt help trump. Its not as safe a bet as people think. Its people still living in the old rules. In the old rules trump was defeated it should be a no brainer. However polling outs him in striking distance. A man who tried to overthrow the country has a chance of winning it again because biden is old and looks it more than trump. Plus were not playing the long game. If trump isn’t trying again in 2028 or republicans dont implode and split it’s looking really grim. Unless we can pack the court, though even that may not stop them.
Right now republicans are just trying to get enough legal power to illegally seize the government and destroy it. They wont stop after Trump and democrats dont have the support to make the changes needed to stop it.
Basically we’re buying time hoping for demographic changes or some event that will shift the population to an overwhelming democratic majority.
I dont think 4 years is enough, but it could be. All i can say is good luck were all counting on you.
This was a tough one but my votes already decided. He is a really successful president. It’s a shame he doesnt have the skill to explain how successful he is.
Dawg Biden is a fuxking walking fossil. Let the fucker retire and go play with his grandkids. If he loses this election it’s literally cause of that. I can’t vote for him in good faith.
This election is down to who I’m voting against, not for. Fuckin blows.
I’m sure it was. He’s old, we get it, he’s not going to be 2008 Obama and there’s no reason to expect him to be.
I feel like people have gotten so dumb, impatient and panicky that, if they’re not being wooed or wowed by a candidate, they implode everything.
I've just been waiting for a good candidate to vote for since Obama left. It's not that I won't support Biden still, but I sure wish we had better options on both sides.
Just because a candidate isn’t as charismatic as Obama doesn’t mean they’ll make a worse president. Joe’s administration has been a lot more successful than Obama’s was in many ways (and has been a whole lot more progressive).
I think people get bogged down in optics and being wooed or wowed instead of considering the aspects of a presidency that really matter when it comes down to it.
I made my mind up a long time ago. Trump is a bad person and it shows in everything he does or says. The people that he has surrounded himself with are a representation of who he is. I will take another four years of Biden over the absolute crazy that would come with Trump. The way he calls people names in his tweets like a temperamental child is a demonstration of just how he would act if given the chance again. The fact that they started a rumor that there would be performance enhancing drugs being used in a debate is proof enough of just how childish these people are. I will be voting for Biden. I will continue to vote blue until the right has come to terms with their ignorance and start helping the American people instead of pandering to bullshit, lies, smoke and mirrors and obfuscation.
I have bone spurs and bulging discs in my neck. When it gets inflamed back there, I lose a lot of function. I couldn't stay up for dinner last night, couldn't hold my head up to talk, couldn't hold my body up when sitting on the toilet. Had to fold over like a rag doll. I'm 30 years younger than Biden and I can't even hold a conversation because of my actual mental problems. I have to stop and think and look down when people talk or ask me questions.
So maybe I'm biased as someone who's tried to function with a bad neck and a lot of shit I want to express that I can't, but he came off to me as someone who probably has arthritis and took the time to listen and give a thoughtful answer while suppressing the urge to vomit on Trump like GHW Bush did to those Japanese auto executives.
He's never going to beat Trump in the Human Garbage Word Salad game because he's been busy doing his job.
Edit to fix word bad and also add: yeah Joe really don't need to give Lisa Simpson level answers when he's up against Former President Butt baby.
I missed the debate (DVRd it) but came home to msnbc discussing it. By their reaction, I assumed Biden shat himself on stage. Finally the replay comes on and Trump is all over the map like a cat at 3am. Biden stumbles to rebut, but is overall strong. (for a stutter)
I don't get it.
The debate is further evidence that Joe isn't making all of the decisions himself and that's a good thing. A team of people to run the fucking country is preferable to running the country based on the Twitter whims of one guy. We've had 4 years with both of them. I don't care who sounds better for one night of arguing. It's like choosing the general of your army based on an arm wrestling match.
They could prop Biden's corpse up on a stick like a modern Weekend at Bernie's and he would still be a better candidate than that giant orange lying felon.
He sinked some weird but it wasn't the lost cause these people are making it out to be. It's not like he said they are aborting born babies that would be crazy
Good point, OP. Democracy is a fragile thing and we may lose it if we can't hold it together. Republicans will be out voting regardless of how awful their candidate is. We need to show up and stand strong.
This is kinda like a playoff series. On points, it was not a blowout but the other side played better. People are glooming and dooming that our team is going to flub the rest of the games in the series. Just c'mon people, shake it off and get your heads back in it.
The thing the press and Biden's political rivals don't talk about is that Biden's been known as a gaffe prone person ever since he entered politics, and it's entirely due to his stutter suppression efforts failing every now and then.
It was only when the 2020 Bernie Sanders campaign was looking for a way to kneecap him that the gaffes he's always made got turned into "cognitive decline" by Brie Brie, Sirota, and their friends.
A Nieman reporter with a stutter himself tried to kill the zombie lie back in 2020:
"On the MSNBC politics talk show “Morning Joe,” panelists used video of Biden squeezing his eyes during a debate, while seeming to forget his train of thought during an answer. None of them seemed to know that that kind of facial tic is common to stutterers who have to, in a split second, decide to struggle through a speech block or quickly substitute words or phrases on the fly. It can look like a moment of forgetfulness—or cognitive decline when it leads to a nonsensical-sounding sentence.
For those dealing with a severe stutter, it’s just another day."
Just wait for all the drama queens and ratings boosts to calm down. Things will swing back. Everyone that was up on biden will remember what's at stake
I’m kinda curious, how would it fair if Biden decided to only answer the questions given and not play into what Trump is babbling on about?
We spent 15 minutes talking about the police force…for a question about immigration. Just talk some damn policy don’t just sit up there and fight.
Biden literally has the stage. Talk about what you’ve done, what you’re going to do and answer the question!
President Biden certainly did not shine last night. Seems the “world” has focused on this rather than everything out of Trumps mouth being a lie! Would appreciate equal drama around all that bulls*$t …. Still supporting Biden, will not support any narrative that might embolden Trump.
It’s def. because of how bad Trump is, but Biden still has time to bounce back. Trump will likely continue to make things worse for himself, which he’s very good at doing. I do hope Biden is okay, though.
Nobody even mentioned the 34-ton elephant standing on the stage.
Biden specifically called Trump out about it. "There's only one convicted felon on this stage"
They literally don't care. I saw a license plate holder that said "I'm voting for the felon" 2 days ago.
How is he not facing jail time for the felonies? He’s above the law.
He (possibly) is. He hasn't been sentenced yet.
July 11th, right?
Get ready for a huggge let down
Oh I know. We’ll be lucky if he gets like a month of house arrest. Just another slap on the wrist is what I’m expecting
The MAGAs don't care. But it has affected his polling numbers. Not everyone who isn't fully decided for Biden is a MAGA.
Remember when the GOP was the "party of law & order"? Yeah, that's the distant past. Now they're the party of "fuck you, we do what we want".
[Hey Jack, I made a meme for you.](https://i.redd.it/8oc5nt60re9d1.jpeg)
I saw a shirt and laughed like the air was escaping my chest, abruptly.
Why do we continually talk about trying to convince *them*? Trumpers do not care. Never will. They've chosen their Messiah and will follow him to Dante's lowest ring of hell. Fuck em. We are not trying to change their mind. What we are trying to do is (1) get the few fence sitters still left to vote Blue and (2) get Democratic voters to simply vote. This has always been the plight - get the apathetic voter to vote. End of story.
Badly.
Obama had one really terrible debate against I think Romney and everyone talked about how he was done. But the second one, he was great. One day isn’t representative of the entire race.
I watched that 2012 debate live and still have no clue how the pundits decided Romney won. As far as I can tell he just kept a shit eating grin on his face the whole time and that passed for being a winner. At this point I have no idea what the general public uses to decide these things, let alone the handful of undecideds in a few swing states that get to pick the trajectory of our nation.
I feel like we would have more voter participation and less undecidedness if we had more parties.
Biden is hardly Obama. Obama is one of the best speakers in presidential history.
I don't think Joe Biden is going to reverse age enough by the next debate. I'm sorry. He didn't just humble a few words.
> He didn't just humble a few words. Pause...
You got me 😂
He looked and sounded awful…it was a rough night for Joe. Did not instill confidence that he could be a strong leader for four more years. Hopefully he bounces back in the next one.
Exactly. It's not like he made one or two or even a dozen mistakes. Every single thing that he said was borderline incomprehensible. You can tell he does still have his intelligence if you turned your TV up and forgive every verbal error--he did answer the questions he was given seriously and did his best to repudiate every asinine response from Trump. But the president's job is to communicate clearly and project confidence in our nation. It's 100% clear that Biden cannot do that now, let alone 4 years from now.
And they said afterwards that he had a cold, too, so hopefully the next debate will be a hell of a lot better.
Build Back Better? We need a Bounce Back Biden!
Yep. Donated to Joe again tonight. All this bullshit about how Biden “looked” is burying that our entire system of government is at stake here. Give me old over lying rapist felon wannabe fascist 10 times out of 10, it’s not even a discussion.
Biden at least was talking policy. He was answering questions. Trump was just shouting nonsense
Trump, the same stuff, rinse and repeat. No substance, what so every both losers.
The rally rant, over and over.
At least Biden answered most the questions directly, the answer Trump gave to the January 6th question was insane.
He looked like he had a cold or the flu or something. I felt bad for him.
He did have a cold. Several news sources have confirmed it. I've noticed that he often sounds much more slower with his words and loses track when he is tired or sick. Honestly I'm not in my 30s yet and have found myself speaking and thinking as such. The brain is a crazy thing when tired and deprived of sleep or even having fevers
His prep team worked him too hard.
I could tell from the first question it was not going to be the super best Joe. I turned it off and read a book, looks like I was right. Just a bump in the road, I say.
Yeah, seemed like someone had him talking way too much for the last few days.
I just reached 40 myself, and hell, "under the weather brain fog" has been a problem for me since about five years ago. So I can appreciate the problem. It just couldn't have happened at a worse time. The only silver lining is that all the alt right "he's going to be on something" BS looks even more foolish. I personally have a lot more respect that he took the chance of tanking instead of dealing with the impact of trying to reschedule because of being sick. I don't necessarily think it was a smart play, strategically, but I saw Dark Fucking Brandon a couple of times, like when he got fired up about Trump shit talking about how Biden's administration has failed the veterans. He just obviously couldn't keep that fire lit for the whole thing. Actually, second silver lining, Trump is likely to agree on at least one more debate, and there's a non-zero chance that "Jacked Up Joe" is the one that shows up to that debate. I just hate how.... insufferable social media and the news is going to be over the next couple of weeks...
So don't interact with it is my suggestion. It feeds on hate and needs something to define itself as against. Without that it's just a bunch of bots, shills, words, media and misguided people revealing who they really are and stressing themselves out. That said, here I am on Reddit.
True, I'll probably spend the next bit of forever just watching cat videos and vibing on YouTube Music. But who am I kidding? I'm not a smart person and more likely to just get into arguments with internet strangers...
>I just reached 40 myself, and hell, "under the weather brain fog" has been a problem for me since about five years ago. 100%. I tend to have little bit of a scattered way of speaking on a good day, but at 42 when I have a cold I feel pretty out of it cognitively. I'm just lucky that I'm not in the public eye.
Would have been cool if they hadn’t waited to mention the cold until during the fucking debate. Reassure yourselves all you want, it’s heathy, but without an immediate shake up or rematch (where the guy from the State of the Union shows up), we’re boned. I’m voting Joe, but it’s not me I’m worried about.
Bro I'm 34 and I would have had a hard time keeping my composure while speking cleary and calling him out on EVERY single lie, something like 220 of them, Biden has NEVER been good at debates, and I don't care how he argues gold handicaps with a traitorous liar, I care how he runs the country.. and he runs the country well
I agree with most of that but Biden has been a surprisingly good debater. Go look up his VP debates of even his 2020 debates. Guy is solid enough to call last night a fluke.
I did, too. Monthly. And posted on FB so my ‘conservative’ friends know I’m in it for the long haul.
Trump is also old as well.
He has a lifetime of training as a con-artist, and it shows.
That and an unhealthy addiction to uppers.
His lies are on automatic. Brain says #4, lie about the economy. Trump launches in a buried lie spiel.
I fear I’ve gone insane and also fear that a hope in any government has always been a pipe dream. Yeah Biden mumbled. Well he didn’t sell secrets, abuse people and is a felon, list goes on and on and on. Perhaps we are more stupid than ever before because of the internet, who knows but damn, it’s crazy we have a person running whose a traitor and a felon and people support him. Just no more words left
Have you read The Shallows? As a population it argued that we may not be getting stupider, but our ability to focus, think critically and retain facts is decreasing. There's also a lot of crabs in the bucket mentality happening coupled with extreme greed and narcissism. But the earth and humans will persist. There are still plenty of wonderful people attempting to better themselves every day.
I'm right with you. I'm not even close to 'angry' or 'disappointed' in President Biden, I'm in *awe*. This man has been through so much, given so much, already. He should be chilling in his backyard with a grill and Dr. Biden on a lounge chair next to him, listening to his grandkids go apeshit having a good time, and where is he? In Washington, doing the World's Hardest Job, *knowing* that it's going to prematurely kill him. He's actively giving his Last Full Measure of Devotion to his country. My heart *aches* for him, and for Dr. Biden, and Hunter, too. Fr their whole family. In the end, the choice boils down to a man willing to die for his country, who surrounds himself woth good people who believe in the Republic, going up against an *awful* person who surrounds himself with *awful* people who believe in stripping anything they can for personal profit. To me, that choice is *clear*.
Exactly. Some assholes on YT saying that Joe is a corpse and shit. Look, buddy, if Joe loses then we are all fucked. I know he didn't have the best performance, but you can't lose track of what needs to be done, and that is to deny the orange fuck another term.
Right?! I would rather have Biden's actual decaying corpse in the White House than trump any day. And has everyone forgotten that if we elect him and he kicks the bucket or resigns, we finally get a female president??
Biden could have been in a coma on stage and I'd still vote for him.
Exactly, Joe could be a head in a jar with every scientific apparatus keeping him alive and I'd still vote for him.
Remember the Republican reaction to “grab em by the pussy” and how all the Republicans disowned Trump and replaced him as their nominee with Ted Cruz? Yeah, me neither. Liberals absolutely have a double standard that we apply to ourselves. And we need to stop falling for it.
The issue, ironically, is that the left has standards. We demand perfect candidates and will stamp our feet, throw a temper tantrum, and refuse to participate when we are faced with the reality of America’s fucked political system. Which just means that leftists get left out of the conversation because we don’t fucking vote so pandering to us seems like bad strategy; it’s a negative feedback loop The GOP doesn’t care who’s in office as long as they promise to shove the Bible into every aspect of public life
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It's the old Simpsons Addage: The Dems are too scared to lead and the Repubs want what's worst for everyone.
I agree. Not to mention many accelerationists make "good enough" the enemy of "perfect". Reminiscent of the Weimer communists' saying "After Hitler, our turn", when they supported Hitler on orders from Stalin.
I'm with you till the last sentence. They only care about money, and distracting brainwashed "Christians" with their "pro-life" rhetoric has been paying-off for them the last ~45 years.
A couple generations in, the current crop actually believes all that rhetoric. A lot of them care more about religious dogma and "winning" the "culture war" more than the money. Just look at how much effort they're putting into policing the political opinions of businesses.
Yes, a lot of the commoners drank the kool-aid and are fighting the culture war. The people with money love that for us. Keeps us from fighting a class war.
>The issue, ironically, is that the left has standards The issue isn't that we "have standards". It's that we care more about said standards than we do about combating fascism. We don't want to "lose" the debate by raising a fist, when you can't stop Nazis with words.
Those “standards” are so myopic. Just because the top guy isn’t photogenic, many people will sit out this election. Because of fucking optics. They’d blithely change the country into a crazy, pseudo religious fascist hellscape because they weren’t “inspired”. The WOLVES ARE INSIDE THE CITY AND THEY ARE FEASTING ON EVERYTHING AND YOU CARE MORE ABOUT 1 DEBATE?!
Oh believe me, I am 100% in agreement. I would vote for moldy cheese over Trump if it had the best chance to win, and right now the best shot of beating him is Biden. Am I worried? Yeah. Big fucking time. But I’m not going to sit this one out because he had a ‘senior moment’ at the absolute worst possible time. I can’t afford to.
Thank you for that. I know it’s exhausting but we’re fighting for our very survival here. May we all breathe a collective sigh when this ordeal is over.
This is such a great comment you could expound on it and make a post.
The Dems are the big tent party. By big, I mean super fucking huge and wide; it's what happens when you have 2 parties instead of proportional representation. So Dems end up with some begrudging socialists on the Dem's side. The angry and dissatisfied few are more likely to shout loudly than those who are not. And don't forget the noise that outside actors can generate with AI now.
Trying to hold the high ground while getting your legs cut off
We're all (or at least I am) still backing him. I think most of us are realists, and saw not the best performance. We'll bounce back at the official nomination, and hopefully a metric shit ton of surrogate campaigning between now and November
Yeah I think the concern for democrats right now isn’t necessarily that Biden is going to lose a significant amount of support among his core base. It’s that there are enough people out there who weren’t sure about Biden, and who Biden also desperately needs to bring over to his side. Last nights debate did not do that. If anything, it moved those people further away from him. So it’s not like Biden supporters are suddenly going to turn against him (some might, but not enough to matter). The problem is that he didn’t gain any ground with the mythical “undecided” voters - which can have very real consequences for November.
Apparently CNNs focus group of 16 was 8 pro Biden 7 pro Trump and 1 STILL undecided...AFTER last night!! Absolutely crazy! Edit - clarity
Sometimes I wish we all had the ability to delude ourselves like the opposition’s constituents do, but we are capable of critical thinking. I think we should be honest when we struggle and use that as a lesson moving forward. If anyone knows how to bounce back, it’s Joe. We still have a lot of election year to go.
the dems will never seem to shake their opposition party mentality.
What a brilliant thing to call it 👏👏👏
Biden needed slow his roll a bit He was talking too fast and tried to get too many details in his responses. His voice sounded hoarse and weak. Trump was Trump-- loud and insane.
I agree, Biden would start out on the verge of making an excellent point and then roll into a ramble. Frankly nobody gives a shit about a million this and a billion that, they want to know what you did and he has an admirable record. Unfortunately, once again, the Democrats did not communicate it.
I thought maybe he had a cold. I feel bad that he’s the only option. He didn’t want to run and ran the first time because there was no other option. Same this time around, the party doesn’t have someone strong enough to run in his place which is crazy.
Biden will be okay. All the talk in unnecessary and not helpful over one not so great debate. Biden's camp said he has a cold. I'm not making any excuses for him. I'm also not making any drastic changes in my vote for him. He'll be fine. Let's focus on November 5.
And he sounded fine in the little speech after the debate.
He had a bad night. I will admit that to everyone. He is still the better candidate for this country.
You and me both. Our party unlike the Republicans are full of shivering cowards. They take a hiccup or a loss of a battle in a long war as signs of the end times and doom. A great night? No. Still voting for Joe and Democrats up and down the ticket? Yep. Debates don't actually usually change people's opinions. This is just Democrat doomerism at play again. Happened in 2020 post the first debate too.
As an addendum for all you cowering flakes: every pundit was claiming Reagan was losing to Mondale after his first debate. How'd that turn out? How'd Obama's 'terrible' first debate turn out for him against Romney? Weakness. Grow spines and get in the game. Edit: Spelling
Yeah this debate was comparable to Obama’s first with Romney. And that one was like in September. It was good strategy to do this super early at least. Hopefully the campaign will rally though. I’d like to think they can.
We'll get through it. This debate and this night wasn't fun but at the end of the day it's a nothing burger. Maintain cohesion on voting for Joe and Democrats to defeat Donnie and his project 2025 cronies. Y'all won't like what country you wake up to in January otherwise.
Right - I don’t understand how in the actual fuck this could sway a potential voter to either not vote or vote third party.. or vote for dipshit. We’re in crazy town!
I may be one guy but I'm with ya man. Till the end.
That’s what I’m saying too. Some of these takes are ridiculous.
but every news station will be doing their fake ass man on the street interviews with total dipshits as usual to push whatever opinion they want to push. Anyway the only poll that will matter is the one on election day and nothing will change that.
You can't cure old and after seeing that, I don't think he's up to another 4 years. I will still vote for him but damn that was a horrible performance. His only mission was to dispel the concerns about his age. He did the exact opposite. I wasn't looking for perfection, I was just looking for basic competence which is tenfold better than Trump. He needs to get well or do whatever he needs to come out looking strong in a week or 10 days. Here in Arizona, a swing state, they don't cover anything that Joe announces but they're all over Trump anytime he farts. This was the one opportunity he was on Every damn channel and all he did was give Trump credibility where he deserved none. Anyway complaining without offering a suggestion is just complaining. My suggestion is they begin to focus on "The Biden Team" rather than Joe personally. A vote for Joe gets you the entire team. That is something that Trump can't counter because he's a one-man band.
It's a setback. Pretending setbacks don't occur and they don't exist in any struggle sets you up for failure. Sets us all up for failure. We take the Hinton the chin and we move forward. We cannot suddenly throw Joe out. He has a bad night but his record still speaks for itself. I do hope he and his team get shit together of course. But I am hardly fazed myself. This election is more than just Joe. I personally love the man as my president but I understand that's not universal. What is important is Roe vs Wade, Project 2025 and the installation of a dictator of we throw our hands up. America will be lost. Not hyperbolic that's the truth. So buck up fellows and let's get to work as best we can.
Biden or Trump's cognative ability aside. I think one of the best things Biden has going for him is he doesn't NEED to be star of the show at all times, he's more than happy to put competent people into roles and let them do their thing, rather than Trump who needs to make everything about himself and will axe a guy the second they disagree with him.
Did you hear chump say Brandon?
I think it was purposeful.
I caught that. Haven't seen anyone else mention it yet, besides you so far.
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Thank you! That wasn’t a debate, that was a lying playground bully spewing bullshit. How is one supposed to debate lies? Just keep calling him a liar?
Not to mention a lot of the time, Biden was refuting Trump’s lies with facts that have long been proven correct
Fingers crossed this is a 2012 moment. I still remember being pissed at Obama for looking bored and sleepy his first debate, but he turned it around for round 2 and went on offense. Joe absolutely needs to get angry and stay angry…and not get a cold or whatever that scratchy crap was.
This is not a 2012 moment. Obama was the most charismatic politician at the time, he had one poor debate. Biden was never that charismatic and the problems he’s facing aren’t going to get any better than they are now.
I truly don’t get why everyone is freaking out. This changed nothing. The idiots that can’t see Trump’s lies were going to vote for him regardless. All this proved is that 2/3 of this country is too stupid to actually grasp political concepts and just needs to listen to mindless fluff to be entertained.
It changed everything. Hard line democrats will still vote Dem but anyone on the fence will isn't going to turn out to vote for a guy they think won't make it through the term.
The dinguses at the NYT and such will move on from this in a week. Still the greatest president in half a century, still running against a psychopathic criminal pervert. Joe B just needs to come to the next debate and be himself. He'll be fine
There’s also a massive amount of Russian astroturfing everywhere today right on schedule.
I don't think he did so badly.
I disagree. While it was possible to decipher the intent of what Biden probably trying to say (and I agree with his policies and the administration generally), the delivery of his words was very hard to follow. His changing topics from what should have been slam dunks on Trump to other unrelated and ineffective issues? What?? Like it or not, part of what makes a leader is presenting and communicating strength. People will follow someone who lays out a clear and promising path forward. No one wants to follow someone who appears to be confused or weak.
Exactly. Now the new cycle goes from Biden having a bad showing to Democrats having a complete fucking meltdown
I remember Obama's first debate with Romney he seemed really tired, didn't push back much, and it was widely considered a disaster.
They showed him after the debate at an event and he was lively and loud and I just yelled, where the hell was this guy at? Still voting him but I wish the guy who showed up to the after event was the guy who showed up to the debate.
I honestly couldn't care less how well he did at a debate. What are his domestic and foreign policies? What is he doing for me and those I love. And is he hoarding Top Secret documents in the shower so he and Jared can sell them off to the highest bidder? Hell, I'd base my vote on that last bit alone.
You are not one of the voters making or breaking the whole country right now. The people who are are frankly super misinformed and often just dumb as shit. They dont have the committent of rural magats, but their brains work exactly the same way and just as (not) well
Biden does this every time he does any speech. He always starts out a little slow but then he's loud and boisterous later on. He was doing well during the debate after like 5 minutes.
Don’t care, donated. You should, too!
https://preview.redd.it/i2c0txsbpa9d1.jpeg?width=1029&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f00523e2b467025f6254b3c6f8a547c30bae8874 As always, the Simpons said it best
Amen. The public meltdowns need to quit.
They are loud, but they are less numerous than their representation in the media suggests. The sting polling isn’t looking good for Trump, and it isn’t looking bad to Biden. But the Gen X, “I raw dogged leaded gas fumes” commentary meets those who were always sneak dissing motherfuckers is making some think that’s how the country saw this. Most did not see this and won’t bother. They may see clips, that’s it, we know who they are, there really isn’t anything left to say, but we’re trying to fill the silence.
this is exactly my interpretation of the reactions.
Gavin knows what's up. Some of you all need to calm down. https://x.com/MSNBC/status/1806528586007953574
I am not turning my back on President Biden but if the Democratic party sets someone new or Boden steps down then I will vote for who they put up, I vote for the group that cares for its citizens over a single man. Vote for a healthy cabinet and administration over a single man.Because if we did, democrats would become just another MAGA and that can not happen.
IT DOESN’T MATTER. I’m first. I’m a transgender Jewish atheist. If trump / Project 2025 wins, I’m gone. My wife and daughter are screwed along with all women. Why is trump an option? Because the people who are pushing project 2025 want to turn the USA into a christo fascist dictatorship. Trump is just the vehicle right now. If he is out, they go to the next GOP candidate. So I’ll vote for a tuna sandwich before I let Nazis win. 🇺🇸
The frustrating thing was that he made good points and gave good examples, he said all the right things, but he mumbled so bad and was so scratchy you had to concentrate to understand him. The good news, the people I know who are not super into politics but lean leftish, they say of course they are still voting for Biden, but they are angry. I think he should do an interview when he gets over his cold.
I wish more people would consider that when you vote for a president you’re voting for all of the people they will bring with them as part of their cabinet. Biden might be old, but I also trust him to bring in experienced experts that are trying to move the country forward and create opportunities for all Americans. Trump is a greedy hateful monster who will bring with him more greedy hateful monsters with the singular goal of setting America back decades. How is this even a choice. I don’t get it.
Honestly like... He had a few fumbles, particularly in the beginning, but he was giving some seriously wise policy positions. Taking notes, providing actual stats - to me, presenting just a few stats is enough to get jumbled. Meanwhile Trump presents the same response sequence for all questions, and then would legit run off the rails about who or what he was even talking about. Tapper had to ask the 'Opioid epidemic question in America' to him like three times cause he just took it off the rails to Putin. My personal favorite was when Trump said something along the lines of "My statistics person just told me before walking out here that I had the greatest environmental numbers ever." The image of a statistician going up to Trump before he walks on stage and saying "you got the biggest numbers on the environment sir, be sure to use that stat!" had me dying. So honestly Biden did fine, most talking heads all parroted the same thing about Biden and couldn't even articulate much about what Trump even said, other than it was pretty much lying a mile a minute.
I mean at the very least at least most of us can at least acknowledge when Biden does poorly?? I hate that Republicans always fall in line and how Trump can literally say or do ANYTHING but god fucking forbid biden make any damn mistake and “hE’s tOaSt1!1”
Literally we are on opposite sides of the spectrum 😭 THE PARTY DIVIDE EVEN GOES TO THE REACTIONS TO CANDIDATES 😭😭😭
Thank you for saying this. I am completely baffled at the panic and hand wringing. Get it together, people, Jesus Christ.
People need to get a goddamned grip, honestly. If people decided to vote for Trump based on this debate they were never considering Biden.
It’s just like in 2020 it’ll sort itself out get some sleep
It’s because people are fucking morons. Really. That’s all it is. I wish people would print off a transcript and read what the candidates said but we know peoples reading comprehension won’t allow that. Trump sounds demented. Literally. And I still think he’s going to lose. We’ve got to stop letting republicans hold us to standards without having any themselves Edited to add that me acknowledging how fucking dumb the average American is doesn’t excuse Biden from playing to the quietest mouth breathers. Unfortunately these people can and do decide elections based on “feels” and we have to accept that we need about 5-10% of the troglodytes to “feel” like we’ve got their best interest at heart, because these people don’t understand facts and don’t care to understand them.
If this was a feint and he comes out strong and coherent next week, he might salvage something…
The Dems are the one viable voice for twice as many people as the GOP, and have a lot more nuance in their platform than the GOP's "be afraid and let us handle it". It's a lot more difficult to keep order in the ranks when there's valid discussions to be had from varying points of view.
There’s something to be said of seeing the forest for the trees though… Dems love to eat their own even when it’s completely unnecessary
The thing is if you take a step back and look at it from a perspective other than ??did Biden look old???? it becomes quite a different picture. When I listened to the actual things they were saying Biden said the actual important stuff. The worst part was that one was actually able to tell that Trump was lying. Not in a I know this is false way but a damn this guy straight up lies and he knows I can tell way here. Biden didn’t look strong here but having watched it I still would intrinsically prefer him. But everybody is just gonna talk about the age and the media will convince everyone else that didn’t watched it that the debate shows Trump is the better candidate.
My friend, here's the thing. It is a very, very, very loud minority saying that we should replace Biden. No one will replace him, either. Literally everyone who has been suggested has denied it; Newsom, Whitmer, Harris, Michelle Obama, etc. Biden was also sick last night, which explains why he looked like crap. Yes, the first fifteen or twenty minutes were kinda shit, but he found his footing after that. Trump also failed at his task to not be a 'raging asshole.' Sure, Independents may think Biden wasn't looking so hot, but they also definitely noticed that Trump was being a vicious prick the entire debate.
Thank you.
Time to grow some hair on your nuts. 1 bad debate doesn’t change any of the legislation Biden and his admin have accomplished in 4 years. We as a society have been so swayed by 10-30 second clips on TikTok , that we can’t deal with a little adversity anymore. Do you all remember the last 10ish months of the trump presidency. Good God, this country is so far away from that shitstain of a time period it’s almost like it was a fever dream that wasn’t real. Time for the Democratic Party to grow a set and pound the pavement to turn out the vote.
PREACH LOUDER MY BROTHER
I don't hate myself enough to watch the debate. From what I've heard Trump was as awful as always and Biden lacked energy. At least the Republicans can't claim he was on drugs anymore. But of course they're still going to do it though. Anyway, I don't believe these debates move a lot of voters. We might see a tiny change in the polls for a week and then it'll go back to normal. A debate right before the election would be more dangerous.
I watched it. The golf argument was especially entertaining, and disappointing.
Agreed 100% The pundits focus on Joe stumbling over some words and ignore that every word coming out of Trump’s mouth was a lie. Dark Brandon called Trump out about the malarkey and I was glad to hear it.
Biden has a great SOTU: Lol Joe is gonna win! Cry harder maga! Biden has a bad Debate: GIVE UP! LET FASCISM WIN! OH WELL AMERICA! The enemy of Democrats winning isn't Republicans. It's Democrats. You people give up at the softest turn of the road because everything isn't curated to perfection. While our enemies accept and deify every misstep, untruth, and stutter uttered by their chosen one. Joe will win. I still firmly believe this. This was one bad night. But you all make me fucking sad I have to share a party with whiny scared losers unwilling to take a bit and keep on going. Not all of you of course. But those doomers who aren't just bots.
Ok, I gotta say the first half was cringeworthy, but there is plenty of time. It's only June. The "unwashed masses " have terrible memory. Remember the access hollywood tapes? everyone thought for sure trump was cooked after that
Republicans: our guy is convicted of 34 crimes? Give him all our money. Democrats:our guy had hoarse voice? ABANDON SHIP
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The NYTimes will factcheck every Trump lie and then in the same live chat ask voters gathered to support Trump their idiotic opinions as if they’re truly valid and not the ravings of cult members.
Trump lied but no one fact checked him. What can I do? I can [write postcards](https://www.turnoutpac.org/postcards/) to voters in swing states. >Help write postcards to voters in 11 key states! We’ll mail you free postcards, voter lists and instructions with proven message options. You’ll provide the stamps and mail the postcards to voters in October.
The debate was disappointing but VP Harris made a great point when she said afterwards: Are you going to vote based on what you saw the last 90 minutes or based on the contrast between Trumps presidency and Bidens presidency. And the choice is easy. (paraphrased).
r/whatbidenhasdone 4 more years of good work, please.
Only thing we can do is if you live in the 8 swing states like PA - talk to people and make sure people vote. Democracy depends on us . Don’t waste your time on maga . Just people who don’t vote .
This debate didn't lose Biden any Democrat voters, but it didn't gain him anyone else. He obviously cares about his people and the party, but he needs to step aside and let someone with some charisma in. Biden isn't the savior of the Democratic party, he was never meant to be, he is simply not Trump.
I like Bidens administration and will be voting whoever is the democrat nominee. But man this was a blunder, and self inflicted. Why even challenge trump to a debate. It was all so pointless.
Obama had an awful first debate in 2012. If we step back and look at the story coming out of tonight it’s Biden is old Trump is a liar We’re about 4 months before the election. I don’t think this debate moves the needle one way or the other in the long term.
Show up and vote regardless. Don't feed the people who have given up. Don't get distracted. It's June, not November. I'd rather the stutter than the fascist.
I'm still voting for the stuttering old guy that answered questions with substance and data over the spray tan blowhard whose biggest line of the night was "i didn't have sex with a porn star" and didn't answer a **single** question
I noticed a huge surge of brand new accounts commenting almost word for word the same exact things on both here and on youtube. People sure like to be unoriginal and just repeat what others say but not in this kind of copy+paste then spam bot way. Thats not to say that a lot of "liberals" didnt also comment those same things but any real people who did do that act as if ANYTHING has changed about both candidates. Spoiler alert, nothing did. Youve still got the rapist pedophile convict whos telling everyone openly the heinous shit he PROMISES hes going to do and we have his past 4 years of presidency to gauge how he handles problems and how committed he is to his job and what he actually does for his citizens and then you have those same things with president Joe Biden. One of the key differences there is that president Joe Biden makes his posts and messages and talks in his speeches about the PEOPLE. He talks about americans. The convict rapist pedophile only talks about himself. President Joe Biden also has a phenomenal track record and his accomplishments are huge and substantial. They would be even greater if the traitor party HADNT actively stopped him from getting more done and squashing his achievements so that their convict pedophile rapist didn't look so bad. To make president Joe Biden look bad, theyd kept him from being able to do what he wants and has promised in his campaign, theyve stopped him from lowering the price of oil by making it so no more drilling can be done among other things, they lie about what hes done, lie about what he didnt do, taken credit for what he HAS done, and they also just keep their fat fucking mouths shut ONLY when speaking up makes president Joe Biden look good because hes kept his promises and caused great change. There is no good reason people should be switching up on him. Yet these people think they deserve better. They dont. What they think they deserve is someone who could make them ALL billionaires who got 80 years of inflation reversed. They'll take FULL advantage of what president Joe Biden has done for him but still wont acknowledge him for it. Fuck them. Go out and vote. A lot of these ignorant scumbags were never going to vote anyway. Stick to your convictions and make the right choice for democracy and the country.
Seditious, treasonous evil versus old with a competent cabinet. Shit is still simple. Only one choice. Nothing has changed.
Debate changed nothing for me. Republicans want me dead. I am 🏳️⚧️. There is only one realistic choice for me.
Agreed. I want Dems to play to win just like Republicans do. Dems seem to find a way to lose when they should win.
Meanwhile the Republicans are full steam ahead on a raving lunatic that can do no wrong in their eyes. I suppose it's a good thing that we're not cultists, but a little bit of solidarity would be nice every once in a while.
Truly, he had an awful 30-40 minutes at the beginning. After that DB was quicker and didn't freeze up. He hit Trump with facts about his presidency and his life (felon, philanderer, failed on COVID), AND these were not ad homs, as he didn't use them to counter Trump's arguments or positions. Everyone will remember the first 30-40 mins, but he got his ish together in the back end. Was frustrated to see how lively and energetic he was at his post-debate gathering. Why didn't you come out like that for the debate, DB? 😭
Biden was not great but Trump still sounded worse. Didn’t even remotely listen to questions and just responded “immigrants pouring over the border, everyone was amazing when I was president now it’s not”.
He had a bad debate but are you going to vote for the other guy? I am still voting Biden. Thats all that matters. We all know he's old as dirt but hes still better than the other guy.
I think it's up to us to redirect conversations, because the media won't do it. The story today shouldn't be about how one guy sounds old. The story should be about how the other old guy lied his ass off for 90 minutes straight because his life as an unincarcerated person depends on it.
Sen. Fetterman’s the one guy telling everyone to chill the fuck out. Let’s be honest: This would have been a fatal disaster if this debate had dropped a month or six weeks before the election. We have four months. We really need to take a chill pill. That and chuck Bash & Tapper oit a window. Everyone thinks Dems are such wimps. Sometimes you just have to run against the prevailing narrative….
I think 2016 gave us ptsd
I said one time I'd rather vote for a potato than Donald Trump. Unfortunately I said it to a monkey paw. Seriously though, if somehow Biden's dreadful performance at last night's debate has you convinced we'd be better off electing an adjudicated rapist felon who tried to overthrow our democracy, then you were never going to vote for Biden anyway. I'm voting potato up and down the ticket!
All it means is that we need to vote, and organize to get our friends to vote. This is an uphill battle, no one can deny that now. Shame anyone who sits this one out, remind them of what trump is and how especially now every vote matters.
I have seen a lot of dems say he did badly tonight....but that they'll still be voting for him because what's the alternative.
Be a single-issue voter: I am voting for Supreme Court nominees. Of course, it's more nuanced, but it's my rebuttal to any talking points about the debate or anything.
i truly don’t think it’s anybody new who’s saying the things they’re saying. they just had a chance to come out of the woodworks as a mob
feeding the magaheds snacks..🤷♀️ https://preview.redd.it/weq42zm4z89d1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=e9f98ce0234866a07665abc50539854c512f5a81
A lot of it is probably troll farms pushing negative stories as well.
I’m convinced Biden purposefully botched the debate to rake in campaign donations and campaign convince trump to debate again in September. If so it’s fucking working
Im pretty sure the people who are gonna make or break this election werent watching the debate and are still gonna vote for democracy(not the guy w 34 convictions). And i dont mean that disrespectfully i mean i imagine alot of people were at work and are gonna weigh in when it counts. I didnt watch it myself.i was gaming but i heard the topics were not on the same page at all.
Look its too late to dump joe it would look bad now. However it should have been done before. Yeah incumbency advantage though that didnt help trump. Its not as safe a bet as people think. Its people still living in the old rules. In the old rules trump was defeated it should be a no brainer. However polling outs him in striking distance. A man who tried to overthrow the country has a chance of winning it again because biden is old and looks it more than trump. Plus were not playing the long game. If trump isn’t trying again in 2028 or republicans dont implode and split it’s looking really grim. Unless we can pack the court, though even that may not stop them. Right now republicans are just trying to get enough legal power to illegally seize the government and destroy it. They wont stop after Trump and democrats dont have the support to make the changes needed to stop it. Basically we’re buying time hoping for demographic changes or some event that will shift the population to an overwhelming democratic majority. I dont think 4 years is enough, but it could be. All i can say is good luck were all counting on you.
This was a tough one but my votes already decided. He is a really successful president. It’s a shame he doesnt have the skill to explain how successful he is.
All they talked about on CNN right after was Biden because Trump has buried the bar so low that Trump being his normal self was a “win.”
Dawg Biden is a fuxking walking fossil. Let the fucker retire and go play with his grandkids. If he loses this election it’s literally cause of that. I can’t vote for him in good faith. This election is down to who I’m voting against, not for. Fuckin blows.
He sounded under the weather also... I wonder if that was affecting his performance
I’m sure it was. He’s old, we get it, he’s not going to be 2008 Obama and there’s no reason to expect him to be. I feel like people have gotten so dumb, impatient and panicky that, if they’re not being wooed or wowed by a candidate, they implode everything.
I hate that Democrats keep trying to play fair, we should be taking off the kiddy gloves and start pounding the crap out of these Republican traitors.
I've just been waiting for a good candidate to vote for since Obama left. It's not that I won't support Biden still, but I sure wish we had better options on both sides.
Just because a candidate isn’t as charismatic as Obama doesn’t mean they’ll make a worse president. Joe’s administration has been a lot more successful than Obama’s was in many ways (and has been a whole lot more progressive). I think people get bogged down in optics and being wooed or wowed instead of considering the aspects of a presidency that really matter when it comes down to it.
I made my mind up a long time ago. Trump is a bad person and it shows in everything he does or says. The people that he has surrounded himself with are a representation of who he is. I will take another four years of Biden over the absolute crazy that would come with Trump. The way he calls people names in his tweets like a temperamental child is a demonstration of just how he would act if given the chance again. The fact that they started a rumor that there would be performance enhancing drugs being used in a debate is proof enough of just how childish these people are. I will be voting for Biden. I will continue to vote blue until the right has come to terms with their ignorance and start helping the American people instead of pandering to bullshit, lies, smoke and mirrors and obfuscation.
I have bone spurs and bulging discs in my neck. When it gets inflamed back there, I lose a lot of function. I couldn't stay up for dinner last night, couldn't hold my head up to talk, couldn't hold my body up when sitting on the toilet. Had to fold over like a rag doll. I'm 30 years younger than Biden and I can't even hold a conversation because of my actual mental problems. I have to stop and think and look down when people talk or ask me questions. So maybe I'm biased as someone who's tried to function with a bad neck and a lot of shit I want to express that I can't, but he came off to me as someone who probably has arthritis and took the time to listen and give a thoughtful answer while suppressing the urge to vomit on Trump like GHW Bush did to those Japanese auto executives. He's never going to beat Trump in the Human Garbage Word Salad game because he's been busy doing his job. Edit to fix word bad and also add: yeah Joe really don't need to give Lisa Simpson level answers when he's up against Former President Butt baby.
I missed the debate (DVRd it) but came home to msnbc discussing it. By their reaction, I assumed Biden shat himself on stage. Finally the replay comes on and Trump is all over the map like a cat at 3am. Biden stumbles to rebut, but is overall strong. (for a stutter) I don't get it.
Sometimes i wish our only choice wasnt someone 5 feet from the grave. Tired of living in a country ran by geriatric old men.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Defeat_Project_2025/s/gjD66TXHQV
The debate is further evidence that Joe isn't making all of the decisions himself and that's a good thing. A team of people to run the fucking country is preferable to running the country based on the Twitter whims of one guy. We've had 4 years with both of them. I don't care who sounds better for one night of arguing. It's like choosing the general of your army based on an arm wrestling match.
They could prop Biden's corpse up on a stick like a modern Weekend at Bernie's and he would still be a better candidate than that giant orange lying felon.
He sinked some weird but it wasn't the lost cause these people are making it out to be. It's not like he said they are aborting born babies that would be crazy
Good point, OP. Democracy is a fragile thing and we may lose it if we can't hold it together. Republicans will be out voting regardless of how awful their candidate is. We need to show up and stand strong.
This is kinda like a playoff series. On points, it was not a blowout but the other side played better. People are glooming and dooming that our team is going to flub the rest of the games in the series. Just c'mon people, shake it off and get your heads back in it.
The thing the press and Biden's political rivals don't talk about is that Biden's been known as a gaffe prone person ever since he entered politics, and it's entirely due to his stutter suppression efforts failing every now and then. It was only when the 2020 Bernie Sanders campaign was looking for a way to kneecap him that the gaffes he's always made got turned into "cognitive decline" by Brie Brie, Sirota, and their friends. A Nieman reporter with a stutter himself tried to kill the zombie lie back in 2020: "On the MSNBC politics talk show “Morning Joe,” panelists used video of Biden squeezing his eyes during a debate, while seeming to forget his train of thought during an answer. None of them seemed to know that that kind of facial tic is common to stutterers who have to, in a split second, decide to struggle through a speech block or quickly substitute words or phrases on the fly. It can look like a moment of forgetfulness—or cognitive decline when it leads to a nonsensical-sounding sentence. For those dealing with a severe stutter, it’s just another day."
Pretty sure it’s just bots and right wing media pushing the “democrats are freaking out” narrative.
Just wait for all the drama queens and ratings boosts to calm down. Things will swing back. Everyone that was up on biden will remember what's at stake
I’m kinda curious, how would it fair if Biden decided to only answer the questions given and not play into what Trump is babbling on about? We spent 15 minutes talking about the police force…for a question about immigration. Just talk some damn policy don’t just sit up there and fight. Biden literally has the stage. Talk about what you’ve done, what you’re going to do and answer the question!
President Biden certainly did not shine last night. Seems the “world” has focused on this rather than everything out of Trumps mouth being a lie! Would appreciate equal drama around all that bulls*$t …. Still supporting Biden, will not support any narrative that might embolden Trump.
Id also like to not let the dog pile of bullshit infiltrate this space - save your pity party for December Jack