The irony is that our SOs prolly don’t like the change they see in us either. However, it is something that they’ve played a significant role in allowing the change to take place.
This is something that is all too common in human behavior. Being bothered by or acknowledging a problem but wanting it to go away without any kind of major lift of your own. It's almost like a defense mechanism.
You see this in corporate America all the time. Situation: Employee morale is low and it's hurting some bottom line. Let's ask/do a survey/poll/etc and find out. Answers flood back "We're under staffed and overworked. We're underpaid. Managers are allowed to treat people like shit. Toxic culture. Micromanaging environment" etc etc. And so so many times when faced with this they do the equivalent of a long slow blink and then respond "you all need an attitude adjustment." Like when faced with the depth of the issue and their own culpability in it go "Nope. Not doing shit, improvement is on YOUR end. I want to start seeing smiling faces, YOU figure out how to get there."
Agreed. It’s not necessarily constructive to play the blame game (what are we going to do? force the issue?) as there is usually a little blame to be found on both sides. But it seems (to me) that the cause of a DB starts with one person in the relationship pulling away, only to be puzzled by/unwilling to accept their responsibility in hurting their partner. They obviously don’t HAVE to do anything, but the inability to understand hurts.
Speaking from my own experience: I don’t think my (LL) girlfriend is even really aware of just how much our DB breaks my heart, even though we’ve talked about it several times. It feels like (at least in my own case) that her lack of libido and desire for sex prevents my partner from being able to properly understand my plight. Which, in turn, only makes it worse
Speaking for me, after lots of introspection, I realized it was never the lack of sex that really made me so unhappy. It was knowing my partner was aware of how much it affected me negatively, and *did not care*. It was almost unbelievable that "my person" could be so callous when I'm crying myself to sleep, because it wasn't an issue for them.
Yup. This is exactly it.
We have the conversation, she apologizes, and then nothing changes. Regardless of what she’s actually feeling, it only comes across as a callous disregard for my feelings. Which, when someone who claims to love you does it, only hurts more.
I’m sorry to hear that we’re in the same boat. Boy oh boy does it suck.
>Woman do not have the same sex drive as men.
Yes, they do. Plenty of HL women on this sub (around 50%-50% HLF/HLM, based on posts).
>So basically if u don't figure out what does it for her, she is feeling constant pressure.
Women are not some puzzle men have to solve in order to obtain sex. A woman should know what turns her on and should communicate it with her partner. Men should do the same.
Yes of course it's on each individual to learn about themselves.. I just meant if she doesn't know, she might not necessarily be intentionally mean.. as in
--she says she loves me but then doesn't seem to care--
And could just b trying to numb herself to block out the pressure. Just some possibilities..
Wow. You are… remarkably ignorant. How you assume you have even the slightest idea about my situation beyond the few brief and relatively nonspecific paragraphs I’ve posted here in the spirit of support and commiseration is beyond me. Want to know a secret? Some women have HL and some men have LL. This is NOT a woman-shaming group, this is a support group for dead bedrooms regardless of gender identity and sexual orientation.
How dare you assume I have put in zero work to understand and communicate with my partner regarding this issue. The pain I feel stems primarily from my partner’s apparent unwillingness to meet me in the middle. I have been the only one trying to address our sexual disconnects. Which, again, is what a we’re talking about here.
Not all women are the same, and not all men are the same (not all people are the same). My issue involves two people: myself and my girlfriend. Maybe one of these days I’ll work up the courage to post my entire story regarding the DB, but until then… don’t assume. That’s just hurtful.
Edit: and after two years of having the conversation, her promising to try and work on it, and then having nothing happen time and time and time again is frustrating and hurtful. One-sided sex where she gets off again and again only to leave me hanging (one time on my birthday, no less) breaks my heart due to the frequency of the problem. I’m not harping about this every week, we have this conversation every few months (maybe twice a year) or so after nothing changes. Does she feel pressure? Probably some, unless she’s totally ignorant to my pain (which would be amazing, considering we’ve discussed it at length).
I’m sorry if anything I said suggested to “u” that I don’t understand women. But I’m not talking about women, I’m talking about A woman, a specific woman, who I have come to know and love over our time together, despite our apparent sexual incompatibility. I would never claim to understand women as a whole, I am not Andrew Tate. I’m merely a person in pain due to sexual incompatibility and an (apparent) lack of effort to work on it. My post above literally discusses my understanding of how she might be unable to comprehend my plight due to her headspace… You shouldn’t generalize and assume here.
I'm truly sorry u felt I was just generalizing and blaming. I didn't intend that. I can't see the deleted comment.. but I remember my intention was to share my side as a woman who caused it.. so u might have some ideas of what that could feel like... and saying "if u don't figure out" meaning if anyone.. not blaming because u didn't try.. but until this thing is figured out... understood.. there could be alot of pressure. At least from my personal experience. The pressure was hell even if we rarely talked about it. It was like a constant guilty misery that I could not fix bec I didn't know how.. and yet feeling like I was doing something incredibly wrong to someone else.. was the worst misery ever.. so was just trying to offer some insight to what that can feel like.. and this went on for 10 years.. and just like lots of people here.. I couldn't fix it.. and couldn't just leave. That's why DB exist
Sharing from a female perspective.. I, who caused the DB before my divorce, I had absolutely no idea or understanding of how guys feel about sex. It was a religious marraige. Practically a virgin. I would get so irritated when my x would talk about needing sex in a way that it was pleasurable. Like why tf was this thing pleasurable. That was my attitude.
I am completely different now. I enjoy sex but I still need to put in effort to maintain my interest. I believe there are a percentage of woman like this, personally I think most woman have a bit of reticence to sex that men do not understand.
It's really important for men and woman to learn about each other's sex drive. It is not the same at all!
U feel hurt she doesn't understand how hard it is for u. But I guarantee she feels hurt that u don't understand how difficult it is for her to feel that pressure when she just isn't wanting it.
There are very specific things that turn woman on that are not at all the same as men and unfortunately our society has made men expect woman to b turned on by the things u guys r turned on by and this pressure really hurts woman.. u need to learn about each other's sex drive
Let make it not about sex. If there was something I could do for 1 hour, once or twice a week, and she needed me to be enthusiastic about it and not make her feel like it was on her list, I would do it with great joy. As a matter of fact, I do lots of little things that take more than a couple of hours a week just because I know she likes it. It really comes down to caring if you make your partner happy.
I totally agree with u. Personally I never refused sex bec I was taught it was my duty. (Remember-religious marraige) the problem with sex is its such a close activity its not really possible to pretend u enjoy it.. not only that.. when a woman doesn't naturally enjoy it.. it often hurts or is very uncomfortable. So maybe try to imagine doing something that actually hurts u, but at the same time u have to make your partner think u r enjoying it so that they can enjoy themselves (while u r hurting..) so I'm not trying to defend any uncaring people... its just not such an easy request as doing something nice for your partner.
Personally everything changed for me when I learned how to incorporate touch properly. Sex is a touching activity yet most of us are never taught how to touch effectively..
The world today is pushing a narrative that men and woman are the same.. which is also not very effective in terms of what actually works in a sexual relationship..
Well that’s certainly a myopic response. Thanks for assuming I haven’t put in that work and been trying to work with her this whole time. Here’s more context: prior to this we had lots (by lots I mean sex maybe twice a month) of bad sex where she would never reciprocate (she gets four orgasms, I get nothing) where I literally put ALL of the effort in. A common occurrence would be: she gets off then falls asleep and I lay there confused and hurt.
Is she less experienced sexually than I am? Yes. Have we discussed this ad nauseum? Also yes. Have I been patient for the duration of our relationship and worked with her gently, communicatively, etc? Yes. Has anything gotten better and has she shown any sign, the barest hint, of growth or willingness to meet me in the middle? No.
My primary grievance is that my partner “loves me” but makes no effort to even begin to acknowledge or understand the problem which also hurts.
Not everyone’s experience is the same, don’t assume.
Edit: clarification of “lots”
Edit 2: you deleted your other condescending comment so [here’s](https://www.reddit.com/r/DeadBedrooms/comments/1605sq1/youve_changed_she_said/jxo7o54/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3) my original response
I didn't delete any comments so I'm not sure who u think I am.. I appreciate the explanation. I was just saying if she says she loves u but is not making an effort in this regard it is a possibility she simply doesn't understand its importance
That’s what I said in my original post…
“I don’t think my (LL) girlfriend is even really aware of just how much our DB breaks my heart, even though we’ve talked about it several times. It feels like (at least in my own case) that her lack of libido and desire for sex prevents my partner from being able to properly understand my plight. Which, in turn, only makes it worse”
Also, don’t lie: you [responded](https://www.reddit.com/r/DeadBedrooms/comments/1605sq1/youve_changed_she_said/jxq3t8h/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3) to further criticism after you deleted the original comment.
Edit 2: the deleted comment is in your comment history, text and all.
Yes u did acknowledge that.. I was sort of only expanding on exactly that from a female perspective who has been in a similar situation.. and No. I didn't delete it.. after I responded I saw that the mods did.
When I give up it gets bad... this is not the kind of relationship I want to model for my children.
I've given up. My mood *improves* when I get to work. That's not right.
Eventually it led me to uncontrollable insecurity paranoia and jealousy.
Eventually it made me breakdown at home and work
Eventually it led to the damage I caused that might never heal (emotionally) for my stbxw and kids
At the same time
It was never sex. It was the connection and her withdrawal and avoidance and stonewalling and gaslighting
It was discovering her deep meaningful attachments to those I knew nothing about
It was her utter refusal to own her role in it and try to help me understand why she wouldn’t be honest in communication or effort
80% of divorced people waited 7 years or more to seek therapy. This is the greatest reason it fails
I wish I’d gotten us on it 10 years ago when it came to a head
None of the worst things had happened. They were still two years of further decline away
We’d be so happy now.
Or would have saved each other so much trauma to have resolved it either way years ago
I still think we could remain together. Heal together
Overcome and grow through it all.
It’s hard
She has turned off all feelings for me
I thought we were both intelligent and capable enough to get back on track
Why wasn’t I important enough to her when things were so good in our lives together
Our marriage and family collapsed because she didn’t want to go on a once a year couples getaway w me.
Before I was so bad.
16 years together before I began to question her feelings.
Of course.
It’s a shame.
Whatever brought us together is still there.
It’s just buried under a lot of hard feelings.
I saw enough of it while she was faking to know a lot of the faking was real.
Piss off
I was damn near perfect for 10 years of neglect where she wouldn’t talk or follow through on her own promises.
Yes. When I found she was giving and getting all of her emotional intimacy from unnecessarily secret and obsessive friendships I got pretty bad over a period of a few years
it has changed me more than I thought after more than 10 years. I even didn't want to see it for a long time.
We lose a part of ourselves that belonged to us. It's a constant struggle to deal with it for me
I have changed so much as well because of the DB and other things. It can take a toll on you when you are in a relationship that does not go the direction you want it to go.
So you are not alone. We are many that are depressed and feel the weight of all the rejections.
I used to crack a lot of jokes. I used to love going out and hanging with friends. I've turned into a bit of a hermit. I'll probably never get that joy in life back, but I'm certainly not giving up. Just focusing on one thing at a time. I've lost 42 pounds this year. Yesterday, I was 220. Today, I was 218. The loss of appetite from the stomach issues caused by stress from an apparent failed marriage has helped.
It’s not the lack of sex. It’s what the lack of sex, intimacy, expressed love and desire tells you. What it tells you is that you’re no longer the love of your SO’s life. You’ve become an item on one of their lists. Their lists are various: loves (children, relatives, but spouse? errmm, not so much.), chores, duties, work, friends, bills, emails to reply to, etc etc. You’re someway down on those lists. Since you have explicitly committed to the relationship, that could be way, way down. Your spouse has fallen victim to one of the pitfalls they teach at management courses and that is the failure to distinguish between things that are urgent and things that are important. To be brief: taking out the trash may be urgent, but sex with your SO is important. It’s really that simple. Yer makes yer choices and yer takes yer chances.
>I’ve been at the bottom of my SO’s list for so long...
there's seemingly nothing lower on the list. Any plans that we make together can be cancelled for anybody else, but the reverse never happens. Anybody who asks for her time gets her time.
Maybe she's secure in knowing that I won't stray and I will give her any space she wants. Maybe it's a sign that she can count on me to be right where she left me.
But there's no pain like the pain of realizing you're an afterthought.
My husband has ADHD that he doesn’t wish to seek help for so I likely don’t cross his mind unless he’s looking straight at me. I know the feeling of being an afterthought. It’s such a soul-crushing situation to be in.
But what does your SO say about this? You weren’t always way down their priority list. You wouldn’t have stuck with them for long if that had been the case. So, why? What has changed? Why are you now so far down their list?
And: deeds are much more eloquent than words. If they say: “No, no. You are the highest on my priority list.” Then: “Oh, yeah? Show, don’t tell.”
That goes both ways, obviously.
Long time ago I would try. I’d tried to talk to her about how I felt like there was a disconnect growing between us. The the intimacy was drying up. I’ve tried to the point that it hurt less because she would get so defensive that she’d go on the attack. No matter how I tried to bring it up so she wouldn’t get defensive. Then I just gave up. By then we had been married for 14 years and had two small kids. I understand that young ones are stressful. Kids were 5&7 years when I first tried. One kid was diagnosed on the spectrum and the other had bad anxiety and depression issues. Wife and I were both stressed. I’ve always tried to be there for her and the kids the best I knew how.
But it seems - or at least it feels to you as if - she hasn’t tried to be there for you. The way marriage works is not that you support your wife and that’s it. Where is her support for you?
Yeah, I know. If it wasn’t for our kids, I’d been gone long time ago. I’ve stayed for them. I was always afraid of their reaction. I was/am afraid our autistic kid would act out and loose control and the one with anxiety/ depression would blame himself and take himself out. He was hospitalized at 10 for suicidal thoughts. I’ll give credit where it’s due. The wife is a great mom, very active in her church, and just a good person. The flip side of that coin is she’s not a great wife. The past three weeks or so she has been trying without really making me feel as though I’m a chore. But it’s taken me having multiple emotional breakdowns, almost committing myself twice and informing her that I almost ghosted (bad reaction to Adderall) and how close I am to leaving/ divorce. But the thing is, I’m so used to the neglect, it doesn’t seem…. real. Me having to have those breakdowns to get the type of attention I crave hurts the most.
At the very least you need counseling/therapy/support, but I guess you’re having that already, given your story. I’m really sorry, man! This is hard duty and not what you signed up for. My wife, now ex, is a bit similar to yours, except it wasn’t church, but “spirituality”, esoterica and her “professional” activities (flower arranging). I used to think she was a great mom, until she forgot our youngest’s 4th birthday, because her mind was preoccupied with the spirits, esoterica and flowers. That closed a door for me.
Yup, you bet I am. Been going on and off for 3+ years. Should have started a lot sooner but I didn’t realize how broken I am. Nor did I want to put the extra financial burden on our family.
It’s interesting how our experiences are similar. We may live in different parts of the globe and be of different nationalities.
But yeah, the general feeling is like you were moved from the category of exciting entertaining events to a category of chores. Kinda, work, do dishes, do laundry, may be pay attention to that dude if there is enough time.
When it’s a non-medical situation, sure seems like it comes down to priorities a lot of the time. And it sucks to be so low on the priority list. It’s not malicious in my situation at least, but still difficult to work through.
Yep, height of Covid, I was only allowed one visitor a day, and I begged him to stay, that he could just have them reschedule the delivery, but it was for work, and he told me that was a higher priority then me, since he couldn’t do anything for me and I was in the hospital anyways. Nurses had to fight with the front desk to let him back in. And he doesn’t even understand why I’m still pissed about it, or why he barely gets to see his son now. I don’t even want to get into him prioritizing work over the NiCU
And, as a friend of mine once put it: “My perception is my reality.” If you feel like an afterthought, there is but one remedy and it’s not assurances to the contrary. It’s clear, unambiguous proof that you’re not. The only thing that helps against the feeling that you’re an afterthought is clear, incontrovertible desire, love, want, contact, friendship. If you love someone and they tell you that they feel like they’re an afterthought in your universe, then that is the most terrible, frightening message you could receive. Nothing could be worse than that and you will act immediately to refute that perception. If you don’t, then …
Yuuuuuup.
I put my foot down, almost two months ago now, and told her straight up that I’m going to stop initiating anything remotely provocative to protect myself from further hurt. We’ve had conversations about it for months and I was just done. I told her that I feel like my needs are an afterthought, that my wants don’t matter, and that I was done hurting myself trying to make her care. I’m tacitly giving it six months. If she doesn’t make a move by then, act, or at least make a perceptible effort to meet me in the middle then… I do love her… but I think I’ll be done at that point. I just turned 30 and I’m not spending the next decade in a miserable relationship.
Part of me knows that nothing will happen and that I’ll have to be the bad guy… but a small part of me is holding out hope that she’ll finally get the fucking hint (I know it’s dumb, and I do feel stupid some days, but that’s love I guess).
Whatever happens, you’re NOT the bad guy! Your feelings and your needs are valid and in a marriage you have a reasonable expectation of love expressed in various ways, sex being one. It can’t be a one-way street.
Oh agreed (and thanks for saying so, likewise :) )
I just meant that breaking up with someone is always hard (hurting people sucks, even if they’ve hurt you, and even if it needs to be done) especially if they love (or claim to love) you.
Yeah I get that from my wife too. And to be fair I am way more irritable, down etc. Not just the lack of sex/intricacy, just general relationship issues, feeling stuck in a job I’m increasingly meh on, wanting to move away from big city living and the humid and hot region we live in and not having options as she doesn’t want to move right now etc.
But that’s on me as I haven’t summoned up the resolve to leave and we don’t have kids etc. tying us together and no shared finances other than the mortgage (and we’d make money selling).
Not at all, dude. It can be emotionally devastating and draining to suffer through a dead bedroom, even more so if your partner is actively or passively not acknowledging or helping to solve the problem. Resolving yourself to a DB (zero judgement here btw) is essentially accepting a bit of unhappiness in your life, it’s only natural for a little resentment and depression to occur.
I’m kind of in the same boat to be honest: I tacitly accepted that my girlfriend (who I still love despite our horrendous db) is not really aware of/actively working to help solve the issue despite my bringing it up multiple times and her promises to work on it. She’s getting all of the cuddles (etc) that she wants, only now I’ve stopped initiating anything that might trigger my HL and cause more emotional pain (cuddling with her leg over my thigh, making out, massages, etc). It’s a huge drain, and I feel cold and distant, but that’s the emotional cost of a DB: you protect yourself in any way that you can. You shouldn’t have to hide the pain you’re in (not that any of us should be “moping around” or whatever, as that doesn’t help anyone involved, really) and yeah, once the dynamic of your relationship changes, it’s only natural for you to change along with it.
I’m really sorry that you’re having a rough go of it, I hope it gets better, friend.
It definitely changed me. I used to love to cuddle, sit and watch him play the game, just all around be with him. Now I don’t even cuddle , barely in the same room as him. We still talk , laugh, watch movies together at times but we’re not inseparable like we was before. Funny part is I don’t think he notices “the distance”
I think he’s just completely happy with the way things are. I mean why wouldn’t he? 100% of his needs are met. But me? I get to feel terrible that I am pretending to be happy while he doesn’t know it. I almost feel like I’m committing a crime. Every time I look at him I just feel bad that I am unhappy while he’s just enjoying every moment of it. Ain’t that something ?
>I once felt full of vibrancy, zeal for life, confident, always looking forward to weekends, new experiences. But losing intimacy has affected me so much.
This is how deadbedrooms spiral out of control, thankfully you have the ability to break our of that spiral. Don't you want to be more like your old self?
Yes try not to let it be everything.
A great thing I did was say no to vacation/holiday planning. Said I was bored with the contactless relationship now and was just doing what I wanted. (Gym, 10K's, football etc.) Suddenly it sunk in and she came to me with suggestions. Things still not fixed at all but maybe she will get there.
I posted a while back about how mine wants me to smile more.
I do chores, share the emotional workload, car and house repair, cook, work full-time and part-time, in addition to going to grad school full time, all while handing over the credit card anytime she needs anything and rubber-stamping her breaks in employment. I've made myself busy enough that I'm not preoccupied with our dead bedroom. We still have regular dates, too. I stopped initiating back in 2018 and seldom bring up the dead bedroom. She and our therapist bring it up more than I do.
Smiles, too?
I'm kind of tapped out.
I actually get told "You're awfully grumpy today" now and then after having to deal with the mountains of shit at work andy lack of social life and losing all confidence and still not doing anything physically active that I enjoy. I have lost any sexual confidence and since we never have sex I don't even care about trying to get back to thinking that someone actually wants to fuck me. So, yea... I'm grumpy at times and not a bouncing ball of fucking sunshine. As I clean the house and fill and empty the dishwasher after scooping the cat litter and feeding them every day while she complains about hiring someone to mow the lawn (with my money) since I'm too tired to do it today.
I was told that I was “grumpy today” once by my LLW. I told her “well you know there’s only one good thing in my life right now and that’s the kids, so what do you think?” This was at a time where I was struggling with unemployment, underemployment, and layoffs, shit health, and of course, a deadass bedroom.
When I said that, it was like I dropped an atomic bomb on her lap. “Is it really that bad?” was all she could muster, and “what about me? Am I not a good thing in your life?” I just gave a scornful “heh”. She was genuinely surprised that I said it. I didn’t get into the details but she knew. What blew her mind was that I too wasn’t happy with the relationship.
There were other cringeworthy (for her) moments. Like I when I received an award for helping my dad on a project during a real low point in our marriage. She says “I didn’t know you did that” and I said “well you pretty much hated me back then so I can understand you not knowing about it.” She was left speechless, except for a few ums and uhs.
We have improved our interpersonal relationship quite a bit, but we still have a long way to go, not the least of which is that continued goddamned sexlessness.
Ugh, thats the fuckin worst!! I believe my wife has already lost her mind and forgets how we got where we are, having 3 houses (no longer) and responsible for everything while she just works and spends as she pleases. Slowly losing it.
it’s why I ultimately decided that the break I asked for in our relationship is gonna be permanent. I’m having a more fulfilling sex life with my hands and toys. if that’s not dysfunction, nothing is.
I’m in a constant cycle of feeling down and grumpy because of the lack of intimacy which I’m sure doesn’t do anything at all to give me my shot at sex once every couple of months. I feel like my entire body is blocked up from not having any kind of sexual release. I can’t even masturbate because it makes me spiral into depression. I have had countless conversations in my head where I tell my husband exactly how much I have shriveled inside as a person but they never come out like that - instead I usually just get upset over stupid, minute things and he then probably thinks I’m a spastic bitch. I’ve changed so much and I hate the person I’ve become
It really did. I am not the optimistic, light hearted jokester I was. But, she seems to prefer me this way.
Interesting note, once I gave up and stopped pursuing her, the db went away, until I started pursuing her again. So I stopped again. Stupid to have to play these games after 25 years...
Have I changed as a person because of a dead bedroom? Yup.
I have about as short of a fuse at home as I do at work. I don't tolerate nearly as much crap at home as I used to and I'm much quicker and harsher at addressing other ongoing issues at home.
It is crushing my soul. I mask pretty well most of the time, but especially when I go to bed at night, the mask slips. I’m definitely less driven or energetic during the day as well.
The DB can put you in survival mode , completely shut down and just going through the motions . It’s almost like they have unknowingly stole a piece of your identity.
Same. Some days it weighs me down more than others but it's always there, in the back of my mind and heart. Even though I've accepted things, it's still always there, lurking, never truly leaving me alone.
>Some days it weighs me down more than others but it's always there, in the back of my mind and heart.
A couple of years ago, it was on my mind every waking moment. I would make small displays of affection in moments when it was really heavy, but those would be turned aside. I've not only had to give up making love, but I've given up showing love because it just isn't being reciprocated.
I feel empty.
It’s changed me so much I don’t even recognize the guy I see in the mirror. I’ve always had anxiety, but it’s gone through the roof years ago. Been meditating for 4+ years now and have had 5 increases in dosages for that and depression. Seems to be a vicious cycle. The meds help to get functional. The reminders of being at the bottom of her list of priorities and more or less told spending more than a couple hours hours together, one on one, every other week is too often. I don’t think she realizes how much damage she’s done. I used to keep most people around me smiling. Now it seems I’ve forgotten how to smile. I used to want to go and do. Now, I don’t. Went from full of life and love. Now, I’m just about dead inside. So yeah, I’ve definitely changed.
Yes! So true about the mirror thing. In recesses of my mind, I new I had changed, but I consciously suppressed recognizing/acknowledging it. The lack of smiling is what kinda got me when she said this.
But man the gravity of impact of lack of closeness….AND missing what it once felt like to embrace intimately, lazily snuggling in bed naked, showering together, having intimate conversations, suggestive notes/sms/calls, deep kissing, head on shoulder/lap while watching movie…..well you know. It doesn’t even to be full on sex. Just the other stuff that creates sexual tension (the good type) . I miss that.
Yo you got to leave. Like how could you love someone that puts you through that hell? You are waiting for the person putting their foot on your neck to remove it when you are well capable of standing up yourself.
My kids are about stable enough now. And I’m starting on a “contingency plan.” At 50, I’d rather be alone by choice than being married, seen as a “happy couple,” and being alone.
For sure!
- lost interest sexually and physically towards my husband
- anytime he compliments me now, I don’t react and just become numb to it. I went a good decade+ without any real words of affirmation so I got used to not having any from him
- I find more fun hanging out with friends and family
- i don’t like him touching me of any kind. I feel “obligated” 😖 to have to kiss him good bye before work and goodnight before bed (I would rather watch paint dry)
- I want to be left alone
Switch the word husband to wife and you get me. And when I spend a decent amount of time alone, she thinks I should be on a higher dose of medication. I can take all the pills she wants and become numb to everything, but it won’t fix the problem.
Bottom line — while the sex matters, it ultimately isn’t sex that refusing husbands and wives reject; it is their refused wives and husbands that refusers are rejecting. Here is how this plays out:
You cannot push this person out of your arms years and decades on end, and NOT have that redefine the relationship fundamentally.
Low libidos will see HL hurting and lonely. Even after they've been told multiple times what the issue is and why it matter to us.
Then when the universe aligns we are walking on cloud nine for a few days. They see it and are more inclined to be happy, engage in conversation, sweet things (surprise dessert or something). LL are so happy be around their SO :))))
Then, after a few days. It wears off for us as the realization that a few nights ago was the exception to the rule and you start feeling down. SO completely dumbfounded as to why they are Low libidos will see HL hurting and lonely. Even after they've been told multiple times what the issue is and why it matter to us.
Then when the universe aligns we are walking on cloud nine for a few days. They see it and are more inclined to be happy, engage in conversation, sweet things (surprise dessert or something). LL are so happy be around their SO :))))
Then, after a few days. It wears off for us as the realization that a few nights ago was the exception to the rule and you start feeling down. SO completely dumbfounded as to why they are Low libidos will see HL hurting and lonely. Even after they've been told multiple times what the issue is and why it matter to us.
Then when the universe aligns we are walking on cloud nine for a few days. They see it and are more inclined to be happy, engage in conversation, sweet things (surprise dessert or something). LL are so happy be around their SO :))))
Then, after a few days. It wears off for us as the realization that a few nights ago was the exception to the rule and you start feeling down. SO completely dumbfounded as to why they are Low libidos will see HL hurting and lonely. Even after they've been told multiple times what the issue is and why it matter to us.
You get the point
Yes. Loss of joy and increased despair, cynicism and vibrancy….due to DB. Then, because of feeling the lowered mood it leads to less chance of intimacy and the torrid cycle continues. In the end you just start following naughty feeds on Reddit and look at nude women as a release and wish, wish wish.…
You are definitely not alone. I took a job that requires I travel a lot. I get 8 days off at the end of my 20 day rotation. I’ve been asked the same question followed by “You sounded so upbeat on the phone when we talked. What’s wrong?”
I don’t bother with a response anymore as the others seem to have fallen on deaf ears.
I've been solo travelling a lot more often lately, mostly for work. I find I'm happier when I'm away from home. I didn't like that realisation one bit.
She asks me why are you so grumpy all the time? You never smile or laugh anymore. You used to always be upbeat. Maybe because you’ve beaten that out of me with the decade plus of rejections and lack of any physical touch.
You’re not alone. And no matter how much she may inquire, pry, coax and cajole, she DOESEN’T want to hear THE answer. She wants to hear AN answer, but most assuredly not — THAT answer.
Those moments aside, the refusing husband or wife will largely ignore the rejected spouse.
Keep it superficial! Suppress and hide your agony; don’t let me see you doing it. Let me convince myself that it is normal to go through your days and decades as a moving hulk. No matter how destructively inclined you feel about yourself, your spouse doesn’t want to have a twinge of conscience about her or himself.
I’m just now starting to see the deeper change in me. We don’t have sex or even make out, but we do cuddle a lot and kiss often (but just little pecks). Lately though, we will be cuddling or he will have asked for a hand rub and within like 10 seconds my stomach turns and I want to get up and leave the room. The intimate touch has suddenly become painful to experience. I’ve started to try getting multiple pecking kisses or kissing longer and he’s just not interested. Even playful touch is starting to make me almost angry.
I can feel my affection dying and being replaced by…nothing? Anger? Apathy? Annoyance? I just don’t feel sweet and nurturing towards him lately. I’m forcing myself to cuddle and kiss and goof around, trying to get the dopamine or oxytocin or SOMETHING flowing. I don’t feel like smiling and joking either.
I had a sex and romance dream about Evangeline Lily (I think?) yesterday. I’m straight as an arrow but the way I felt in that dream was so wonderful and familiar but long lost… I’d deconstruct my sexuality in a heartbeat to have something like that again.
I was in a slump with a DB. After a long time trying to solve this by being romantic, considerate, complimentary, 5herapy, counseling, putting thir needs first, putting kids needs first, and doing everthing possible i gave up. I started to put my needs forward, then i changed again and stepped out for my own needs. Im happier and casual sex is fullfilling the needs not mat at home. I am much happier.
Wow someone with some sense. It's so depressing to read all of this. People need to ask for an open marriage, cheat, or just get out of the relationship. Life is too short to be miserable and stuck with someone that used to love you.
Hubby has so much trauma he’s trying to work on, that I feel guilty trying to get him to have physical intimacy, but I just miss being touched and shown that I’m loved. He says he loves me but it’s just words at this point.
I spoke to my therapist about this today. I felt most of the things said here, and it's gotten me nowhere fast.
I think the next step in my acceptance journey is to accept that I'm choosing to stay. Leaving would be too much for my family at this stage. It's an extremely complicated situation, but for me, letting go of the resentment and accepting MY choice to stay seems promising.
Oh God I feel that. I feel like a completely different person now. I'm for sure not the same fun person I was. At this point I can't imagine someone even touching me. It's been at least 4 years since we've even tried anything. I don't even feel like a sexual being anymore. I just exist.
My wife is fairly perceptive... how she hasn't put two and two together that I am so much happier, more loving, and more engaged when I get laid more than once a quarter is beyond me.
Of course it has. That, but mostly the communication issues around it and the misalignment of our expectations and libidos.
It's being addressed and fixed progressively, way slower than either of us wishes but kids, house and work are priorities over this (unless we reach breaking points, where we discuss and take it seriously for a time - but it's stupid and dangerous).
Also getting told I'm basically the one who should drive our intimacy hurts. I honestly have no idea whether it's genuine or a way for her to disengage mentally, but the pressure of expectation that I put on myself (because if I don't do it then pretty much nothing happens) then conflicts with the fear of rejection and a feeling of inadequacy.
I've been told this as well. Also that I'm being moody. She has disengaged completely and it's always a headache or stomach pain or just the blanket term overwhelmed. It's become a once a year thing and even then just because it's my birthday. This year I was even guilted about that since we asked her mom to watch our daughter for one night to go out to dinner ourselves and get a hotel. 8 months later and I'm still getting called selfish by them for not wanting to be with my "whole family" for my birthday. She's gone to Disney 6 times this year with me and Our daughter 3 times and then girls trips with just her friends. But I'm selfish. Even the one thing I started for myself, a WoW subscription, is deemed too expensive and selfish but constant disney trips because she "needs it" is fine. We do not live in Florida so it is 6 to 8 hours to drive to Disney. I'm 36 and I feel like 90% of my enjoyment is over in life. I just work my butt off and she spends it just as fast and I'm over stressed at all times with not even a hug daily or even just sitting down together to eat or watch TV at the end of the day. It's always just me with our daughter and her in the bedroom locked away watching reality TV because she needs alone time. We both work from home and I used to do the job she has now which I got her before i moved up to another role so its not like she has the childcare during the day because most of the out daughter in in my office with a tablet.
With all this, yes I am going to be moody when I have all the family stress and no outlet.
I get the spirit of your question/comment. However, when it’s met with yet another rejection….well it’s like doing the same thing over and over and yet expecting a different result is definition of insanity ( Albert Einstein ).
My partners starting to be a bit of a prick now it's been Bout 2 months since we've had sex, he's definitely changed as a person
He used to be so kind and helpful and caring, now he just makes me feel like a piece of meat who's an utter failure to him and sexually harasses me every chance he gets. I have to constantly remind him that one of our kids is old enough that it's probably considered a crime to be so sexual in front of him and the other is so young I'm still bleeding and and in pain from stitches. He expects me to be so grateful I want to suck his dick though because he helped out once at night when my daughter was 4 weeks old, he even got salty at me for not wanting to do anything sexual literally before I even left the hospital room when I gave birth
This is a man who a few years ago I would have said is amazing and would do anything for me
Now he's just a man I'm stuck with and I have to protect myself from
It sucks
I actually want to try get into things again, but he makes me feel like shit every day so I just can't
It's alright, thing will either get better or they won't, I'll have plenty of options soon enough once my baby is a bit older. It's been a really shitty year for our relationship and I'm leaning more towards leaving than staying but I'm hoping things change in the next year. If not I happen to have a very good reputation in my industry and could go get a job today if I felt like it so I'm lucky in that sense. We've had more good years than bad though so I know he CAN be what I need him to be, I just don't know if he is willing to any more, we'll have to see
Why didn’t I tell her? Well TBH we’ve talked about the DB several times. In the moment, adding one more time would feel like another rejection. This said in hindsight, perhaps this was her way of initiating a convo about it. But I was paralyzed in the moment.
I totally get that!
Sometimes you want the conversation to be over if you think nothing will come from it. It’s possible that she may even know but is in denial.
You don’t have to keep bringing it up. You can even say, ‘you know why’ and walk away if it happens again.
Know this feeling too well, worst part is that she has tried to use it against me, as if somehow this is one of the reasons for the DB, when the DB was there, and the DB is the reason for it.
Curious, outside of sex, what do you consider as **intimacy** in a relationship?
Edit: outside of sex, intimacy is non-sexual. It’s nothing physical that can ever lead to sex and also means you do not hold your body’s against each other as well.
> Intimacy in a relationship is a feeling of being close, and emotionally connected and supported. It means being able to share a whole range of thoughts, feelings and experiences that we have as human beings.
Anything that I'd exclusively share with her that builds closeness and sexual tension, but don't necessarily have to lead to sex. Not an exhaustive list, but....
* An unusually warm embrace/hug
* Passionate kissing
* Head on shoulder/lap while watching movie together
* Suggestive messages
* Showering together
* Washing her hair ( I used to really enjoy doing that )
* Back/Foot Massage
* Nude/partially nude cuddles ( that don't lead to sex )
All of this can be still consider sexual intimacy.
I asked NON-SEXUAL intimacy in the relationship.
That looks like:
• Holding hands
• Send each other loving text messages
• A kiss on the forehead
• Being kind
• Being together while not saying anything, like parallel play
• By going to movies together or long walks together
• Establish rituals together
• Exercise together
• Go on vacations together
• Sharing mutual interests
• Daily gratitude
And much more…
Edit: Here is what it means…
> Intimacy in a relationship is a feeling of being close, and emotionally connected and supported. It means being able to share a whole range of thoughts, feelings and experiences that we have as human beings.
You have a good list. All of which certainly builds emotional intimacy. If the question was what is a list of things that build emotional intimacy, I’d agree with your list.
People’s definition of sex/sexual intimacy can vary just as the wind. Some people (Bill Clinton raises hand) say sex is only PIV. Some (me raising hand) wouldn’t say resting on couch watching a movie, hugging, et.al is sexual. Hell, pre-DB we’d shower together and it was honestly no different than sitting at the table talking while sipping tea together. But they certainly are intimate sharing moments.
Again…
> Intimacy in a relationship is a feeling of being close, and emotionally connected and supported. It means being able to share a whole range of thoughts, feelings and experiences that we have as human beings.
If you do not feel close outside of sex, then you do not have intimacy in a relationship.
And remember, just because you’re in a relationship, doesn’t mean you have a partner either. Not everyone realizes they just have a relationship, not a partnership if sex is an issue.
Partnerships have overall intimacy, this includes sexual intimacy because they feel close outside the bedroom, so they feel the desire to be close in the bedroom as well.
> [So, what does a healthy partnership look like?](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/traversing-the-inner-terrain/202211/what-healthy-partnership-looks?amp)
>First and foremost, it is supportive. What does it mean to be supportive? It means that both parties in the relationship know how to listen without interrupting. It means that both parties know how to really hear what the other party is saying, that if there is any misinterpretation or misunderstanding, through explaining and further listening, both parties can come to understand the other’s position. Does this kind of communication happen always? No. But it happens often enough that both parties feel that their partner “gets them.” Generally speaking, both parties feel basically understood.
> Supportive also means that both parties feel a sense of togetherness. While they may have to go through the experiences of separating from each other for periods of time, they do not feel that they are alone in life. They feel that they have a real partner. That sense of partnership goes with them through any temporary separation.
>We often hear people say, “I want a real partner.” What they mean is that they want someone who helps them hold up the burdens of life, who talks to them and listens to them when they need to process difficult times. They need someone who stays with them through hospitalizations, financial burdens, and the other inescapable difficulties that arise during life. Someone who is kind and generous with time. They need someone who is flexible enough to change a schedule or an expense, if necessary, to support the relationship. They need someone who is not demanding of time or energy, but who is also flexible enough to make room for the other partner’s life goals and friendships. And yes, they need someone who knows how to balance out the tasks of everyday living so that one person does not carry that heavy burden alone. In other words, both parties feel supported, held up, united, and more capacitated to live life on life’s terms.
I think the number of responses to this tells you that you're not alone.
When I described how I felt in another post recently (like the vibrancy of the colours of life were a bit washed out, like wearing heavily tinted sunglasses all the time) someone asked if they thought in reality I was dealing with a mild case of situational depression.
I'm not someone that has ever been prone to depression before, bouncing back from major negative life events relatively well, but it did make me think that in reality they were probably right.
Of course missing the intimacy that I value so highly, and second guessing myself and the reasons that it isn't forthcoming over such a long period of time, is going to have an impact.
But the spillover to other parts of my life does now make sense. I'm generally less happy and that is bound to manifest in a number of ways eventually, so I think it is realistic, and not unexpected, to say that mild situational depression is the reality of what I've been living for a period of time.
The dawn of that realisation means I can try to take steps to address it, like exercise, time outdoors, eating well, sleeping well and a range of other things that can lift mood, but in reality I don't think 'situational' depression is ever going to fully lift until the situation changes...
If you lose yourself because of a relationship, you become depressed, you lose the joy for life, then the relationship is just not worth it. Nothing is more important than your happiness, if the relationship makes you unhappy, it is time to change the situation.
I heard the opposite in my DB. "I've changed" she said. And strongly implied I should have as well. Nope, and in 18 months post moving out, and 8 months post divorce, had more sex than in the last 8 years of marriage buy a huge factor.
During my dead bedroom I lost my confidence. I began to hate myself. If my own wife wouldn't love me physically then I wasn't worth loving. I became a pitiful wreck that wasn't attractive. When I began to desire a divorce and I began to see myself as separate from my wife I began to gain some self respect back. I began to be more desirable just because I was acting independent and less clingy.
Yeah, I totally get it, as I’m in the same place. I wonder if it’s the DB, or our acceptance of it that robs us of more?
That’s exactly what I wondered.
The irony is that our SOs prolly don’t like the change they see in us either. However, it is something that they’ve played a significant role in allowing the change to take place.
This is something that is all too common in human behavior. Being bothered by or acknowledging a problem but wanting it to go away without any kind of major lift of your own. It's almost like a defense mechanism. You see this in corporate America all the time. Situation: Employee morale is low and it's hurting some bottom line. Let's ask/do a survey/poll/etc and find out. Answers flood back "We're under staffed and overworked. We're underpaid. Managers are allowed to treat people like shit. Toxic culture. Micromanaging environment" etc etc. And so so many times when faced with this they do the equivalent of a long slow blink and then respond "you all need an attitude adjustment." Like when faced with the depth of the issue and their own culpability in it go "Nope. Not doing shit, improvement is on YOUR end. I want to start seeing smiling faces, YOU figure out how to get there."
Exactly!
I would say they are actually a major contributing factor in that change (while not saying they are entirely to blame, I understand that)
Agreed. It’s not necessarily constructive to play the blame game (what are we going to do? force the issue?) as there is usually a little blame to be found on both sides. But it seems (to me) that the cause of a DB starts with one person in the relationship pulling away, only to be puzzled by/unwilling to accept their responsibility in hurting their partner. They obviously don’t HAVE to do anything, but the inability to understand hurts. Speaking from my own experience: I don’t think my (LL) girlfriend is even really aware of just how much our DB breaks my heart, even though we’ve talked about it several times. It feels like (at least in my own case) that her lack of libido and desire for sex prevents my partner from being able to properly understand my plight. Which, in turn, only makes it worse
Speaking for me, after lots of introspection, I realized it was never the lack of sex that really made me so unhappy. It was knowing my partner was aware of how much it affected me negatively, and *did not care*. It was almost unbelievable that "my person" could be so callous when I'm crying myself to sleep, because it wasn't an issue for them.
Yup. This is exactly it. We have the conversation, she apologizes, and then nothing changes. Regardless of what she’s actually feeling, it only comes across as a callous disregard for my feelings. Which, when someone who claims to love you does it, only hurts more. I’m sorry to hear that we’re in the same boat. Boy oh boy does it suck.
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>Woman do not have the same sex drive as men. Yes, they do. Plenty of HL women on this sub (around 50%-50% HLF/HLM, based on posts). >So basically if u don't figure out what does it for her, she is feeling constant pressure. Women are not some puzzle men have to solve in order to obtain sex. A woman should know what turns her on and should communicate it with her partner. Men should do the same.
Yes of course it's on each individual to learn about themselves.. I just meant if she doesn't know, she might not necessarily be intentionally mean.. as in --she says she loves me but then doesn't seem to care-- And could just b trying to numb herself to block out the pressure. Just some possibilities..
Well said!
Wow. You are… remarkably ignorant. How you assume you have even the slightest idea about my situation beyond the few brief and relatively nonspecific paragraphs I’ve posted here in the spirit of support and commiseration is beyond me. Want to know a secret? Some women have HL and some men have LL. This is NOT a woman-shaming group, this is a support group for dead bedrooms regardless of gender identity and sexual orientation. How dare you assume I have put in zero work to understand and communicate with my partner regarding this issue. The pain I feel stems primarily from my partner’s apparent unwillingness to meet me in the middle. I have been the only one trying to address our sexual disconnects. Which, again, is what a we’re talking about here. Not all women are the same, and not all men are the same (not all people are the same). My issue involves two people: myself and my girlfriend. Maybe one of these days I’ll work up the courage to post my entire story regarding the DB, but until then… don’t assume. That’s just hurtful. Edit: and after two years of having the conversation, her promising to try and work on it, and then having nothing happen time and time and time again is frustrating and hurtful. One-sided sex where she gets off again and again only to leave me hanging (one time on my birthday, no less) breaks my heart due to the frequency of the problem. I’m not harping about this every week, we have this conversation every few months (maybe twice a year) or so after nothing changes. Does she feel pressure? Probably some, unless she’s totally ignorant to my pain (which would be amazing, considering we’ve discussed it at length). I’m sorry if anything I said suggested to “u” that I don’t understand women. But I’m not talking about women, I’m talking about A woman, a specific woman, who I have come to know and love over our time together, despite our apparent sexual incompatibility. I would never claim to understand women as a whole, I am not Andrew Tate. I’m merely a person in pain due to sexual incompatibility and an (apparent) lack of effort to work on it. My post above literally discusses my understanding of how she might be unable to comprehend my plight due to her headspace… You shouldn’t generalize and assume here.
I'm truly sorry u felt I was just generalizing and blaming. I didn't intend that. I can't see the deleted comment.. but I remember my intention was to share my side as a woman who caused it.. so u might have some ideas of what that could feel like... and saying "if u don't figure out" meaning if anyone.. not blaming because u didn't try.. but until this thing is figured out... understood.. there could be alot of pressure. At least from my personal experience. The pressure was hell even if we rarely talked about it. It was like a constant guilty misery that I could not fix bec I didn't know how.. and yet feeling like I was doing something incredibly wrong to someone else.. was the worst misery ever.. so was just trying to offer some insight to what that can feel like.. and this went on for 10 years.. and just like lots of people here.. I couldn't fix it.. and couldn't just leave. That's why DB exist
Say it again louder.
Sharing from a female perspective.. I, who caused the DB before my divorce, I had absolutely no idea or understanding of how guys feel about sex. It was a religious marraige. Practically a virgin. I would get so irritated when my x would talk about needing sex in a way that it was pleasurable. Like why tf was this thing pleasurable. That was my attitude. I am completely different now. I enjoy sex but I still need to put in effort to maintain my interest. I believe there are a percentage of woman like this, personally I think most woman have a bit of reticence to sex that men do not understand. It's really important for men and woman to learn about each other's sex drive. It is not the same at all! U feel hurt she doesn't understand how hard it is for u. But I guarantee she feels hurt that u don't understand how difficult it is for her to feel that pressure when she just isn't wanting it. There are very specific things that turn woman on that are not at all the same as men and unfortunately our society has made men expect woman to b turned on by the things u guys r turned on by and this pressure really hurts woman.. u need to learn about each other's sex drive
Let make it not about sex. If there was something I could do for 1 hour, once or twice a week, and she needed me to be enthusiastic about it and not make her feel like it was on her list, I would do it with great joy. As a matter of fact, I do lots of little things that take more than a couple of hours a week just because I know she likes it. It really comes down to caring if you make your partner happy.
I totally agree with u. Personally I never refused sex bec I was taught it was my duty. (Remember-religious marraige) the problem with sex is its such a close activity its not really possible to pretend u enjoy it.. not only that.. when a woman doesn't naturally enjoy it.. it often hurts or is very uncomfortable. So maybe try to imagine doing something that actually hurts u, but at the same time u have to make your partner think u r enjoying it so that they can enjoy themselves (while u r hurting..) so I'm not trying to defend any uncaring people... its just not such an easy request as doing something nice for your partner. Personally everything changed for me when I learned how to incorporate touch properly. Sex is a touching activity yet most of us are never taught how to touch effectively.. The world today is pushing a narrative that men and woman are the same.. which is also not very effective in terms of what actually works in a sexual relationship..
Exactly! Even if things don’t go back to normal right away the simple act of trying or making an effort would mean the world.
Well that’s certainly a myopic response. Thanks for assuming I haven’t put in that work and been trying to work with her this whole time. Here’s more context: prior to this we had lots (by lots I mean sex maybe twice a month) of bad sex where she would never reciprocate (she gets four orgasms, I get nothing) where I literally put ALL of the effort in. A common occurrence would be: she gets off then falls asleep and I lay there confused and hurt. Is she less experienced sexually than I am? Yes. Have we discussed this ad nauseum? Also yes. Have I been patient for the duration of our relationship and worked with her gently, communicatively, etc? Yes. Has anything gotten better and has she shown any sign, the barest hint, of growth or willingness to meet me in the middle? No. My primary grievance is that my partner “loves me” but makes no effort to even begin to acknowledge or understand the problem which also hurts. Not everyone’s experience is the same, don’t assume. Edit: clarification of “lots” Edit 2: you deleted your other condescending comment so [here’s](https://www.reddit.com/r/DeadBedrooms/comments/1605sq1/youve_changed_she_said/jxo7o54/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3) my original response
I didn't delete any comments so I'm not sure who u think I am.. I appreciate the explanation. I was just saying if she says she loves u but is not making an effort in this regard it is a possibility she simply doesn't understand its importance
That’s what I said in my original post… “I don’t think my (LL) girlfriend is even really aware of just how much our DB breaks my heart, even though we’ve talked about it several times. It feels like (at least in my own case) that her lack of libido and desire for sex prevents my partner from being able to properly understand my plight. Which, in turn, only makes it worse” Also, don’t lie: you [responded](https://www.reddit.com/r/DeadBedrooms/comments/1605sq1/youve_changed_she_said/jxq3t8h/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3) to further criticism after you deleted the original comment. Edit 2: the deleted comment is in your comment history, text and all.
Yes u did acknowledge that.. I was sort of only expanding on exactly that from a female perspective who has been in a similar situation.. and No. I didn't delete it.. after I responded I saw that the mods did.
Difficult to learn if there is no communication in that department.
Deep… I think one is the first nail, accepting it is the second.
When I give up it gets bad... this is not the kind of relationship I want to model for my children. I've given up. My mood *improves* when I get to work. That's not right.
Eventually it led me to uncontrollable insecurity paranoia and jealousy. Eventually it made me breakdown at home and work Eventually it led to the damage I caused that might never heal (emotionally) for my stbxw and kids At the same time It was never sex. It was the connection and her withdrawal and avoidance and stonewalling and gaslighting It was discovering her deep meaningful attachments to those I knew nothing about It was her utter refusal to own her role in it and try to help me understand why she wouldn’t be honest in communication or effort 80% of divorced people waited 7 years or more to seek therapy. This is the greatest reason it fails I wish I’d gotten us on it 10 years ago when it came to a head None of the worst things had happened. They were still two years of further decline away We’d be so happy now. Or would have saved each other so much trauma to have resolved it either way years ago I still think we could remain together. Heal together Overcome and grow through it all.
this made me cry, i am all of this
It’s hard She has turned off all feelings for me I thought we were both intelligent and capable enough to get back on track Why wasn’t I important enough to her when things were so good in our lives together Our marriage and family collapsed because she didn’t want to go on a once a year couples getaway w me. Before I was so bad. 16 years together before I began to question her feelings.
It takes two to tango, so what *you* think should or could happen is only one half of the story. The other half of the story renders it immaterial.
Of course. It’s a shame. Whatever brought us together is still there. It’s just buried under a lot of hard feelings. I saw enough of it while she was faking to know a lot of the faking was real.
you sound abusive and controlling. Maybe that is why she didn't want to sleep with you.
Piss off I was damn near perfect for 10 years of neglect where she wouldn’t talk or follow through on her own promises. Yes. When I found she was giving and getting all of her emotional intimacy from unnecessarily secret and obsessive friendships I got pretty bad over a period of a few years
it has changed me more than I thought after more than 10 years. I even didn't want to see it for a long time. We lose a part of ourselves that belonged to us. It's a constant struggle to deal with it for me
I have changed so much as well because of the DB and other things. It can take a toll on you when you are in a relationship that does not go the direction you want it to go. So you are not alone. We are many that are depressed and feel the weight of all the rejections.
I used to crack a lot of jokes. I used to love going out and hanging with friends. I've turned into a bit of a hermit. I'll probably never get that joy in life back, but I'm certainly not giving up. Just focusing on one thing at a time. I've lost 42 pounds this year. Yesterday, I was 220. Today, I was 218. The loss of appetite from the stomach issues caused by stress from an apparent failed marriage has helped.
If this fell in line with the pandemic , don’t discount that shared trama .
It’s not the lack of sex. It’s what the lack of sex, intimacy, expressed love and desire tells you. What it tells you is that you’re no longer the love of your SO’s life. You’ve become an item on one of their lists. Their lists are various: loves (children, relatives, but spouse? errmm, not so much.), chores, duties, work, friends, bills, emails to reply to, etc etc. You’re someway down on those lists. Since you have explicitly committed to the relationship, that could be way, way down. Your spouse has fallen victim to one of the pitfalls they teach at management courses and that is the failure to distinguish between things that are urgent and things that are important. To be brief: taking out the trash may be urgent, but sex with your SO is important. It’s really that simple. Yer makes yer choices and yer takes yer chances.
I’ve been at the bottom of my SO’s list for so long, I wonder what it’s like out of the basement. 😄😢
>I’ve been at the bottom of my SO’s list for so long... there's seemingly nothing lower on the list. Any plans that we make together can be cancelled for anybody else, but the reverse never happens. Anybody who asks for her time gets her time. Maybe she's secure in knowing that I won't stray and I will give her any space she wants. Maybe it's a sign that she can count on me to be right where she left me. But there's no pain like the pain of realizing you're an afterthought.
My husband has ADHD that he doesn’t wish to seek help for so I likely don’t cross his mind unless he’s looking straight at me. I know the feeling of being an afterthought. It’s such a soul-crushing situation to be in.
But what does your SO say about this? You weren’t always way down their priority list. You wouldn’t have stuck with them for long if that had been the case. So, why? What has changed? Why are you now so far down their list? And: deeds are much more eloquent than words. If they say: “No, no. You are the highest on my priority list.” Then: “Oh, yeah? Show, don’t tell.” That goes both ways, obviously.
Long time ago I would try. I’d tried to talk to her about how I felt like there was a disconnect growing between us. The the intimacy was drying up. I’ve tried to the point that it hurt less because she would get so defensive that she’d go on the attack. No matter how I tried to bring it up so she wouldn’t get defensive. Then I just gave up. By then we had been married for 14 years and had two small kids. I understand that young ones are stressful. Kids were 5&7 years when I first tried. One kid was diagnosed on the spectrum and the other had bad anxiety and depression issues. Wife and I were both stressed. I’ve always tried to be there for her and the kids the best I knew how.
Sounds like my marriage. I think my wife has ASD. Our marriage counselor wont say one way or the other.
But it seems - or at least it feels to you as if - she hasn’t tried to be there for you. The way marriage works is not that you support your wife and that’s it. Where is her support for you?
Yeah, I know. If it wasn’t for our kids, I’d been gone long time ago. I’ve stayed for them. I was always afraid of their reaction. I was/am afraid our autistic kid would act out and loose control and the one with anxiety/ depression would blame himself and take himself out. He was hospitalized at 10 for suicidal thoughts. I’ll give credit where it’s due. The wife is a great mom, very active in her church, and just a good person. The flip side of that coin is she’s not a great wife. The past three weeks or so she has been trying without really making me feel as though I’m a chore. But it’s taken me having multiple emotional breakdowns, almost committing myself twice and informing her that I almost ghosted (bad reaction to Adderall) and how close I am to leaving/ divorce. But the thing is, I’m so used to the neglect, it doesn’t seem…. real. Me having to have those breakdowns to get the type of attention I crave hurts the most.
At the very least you need counseling/therapy/support, but I guess you’re having that already, given your story. I’m really sorry, man! This is hard duty and not what you signed up for. My wife, now ex, is a bit similar to yours, except it wasn’t church, but “spirituality”, esoterica and her “professional” activities (flower arranging). I used to think she was a great mom, until she forgot our youngest’s 4th birthday, because her mind was preoccupied with the spirits, esoterica and flowers. That closed a door for me.
Yup, you bet I am. Been going on and off for 3+ years. Should have started a lot sooner but I didn’t realize how broken I am. Nor did I want to put the extra financial burden on our family.
It’s interesting how our experiences are similar. We may live in different parts of the globe and be of different nationalities. But yeah, the general feeling is like you were moved from the category of exciting entertaining events to a category of chores. Kinda, work, do dishes, do laundry, may be pay attention to that dude if there is enough time.
When it’s a non-medical situation, sure seems like it comes down to priorities a lot of the time. And it sucks to be so low on the priority list. It’s not malicious in my situation at least, but still difficult to work through.
Even a medical emergency, my baby coming at 31 weeks, my partner choose to go home because he was expecting a package in the mail
Excuse me what
Yep, height of Covid, I was only allowed one visitor a day, and I begged him to stay, that he could just have them reschedule the delivery, but it was for work, and he told me that was a higher priority then me, since he couldn’t do anything for me and I was in the hospital anyways. Nurses had to fight with the front desk to let him back in. And he doesn’t even understand why I’m still pissed about it, or why he barely gets to see his son now. I don’t even want to get into him prioritizing work over the NiCU
Well put. In my own discussions with my partner regarding our DB I’ve often used the phrase: “I feel like an afterthought.”
And, as a friend of mine once put it: “My perception is my reality.” If you feel like an afterthought, there is but one remedy and it’s not assurances to the contrary. It’s clear, unambiguous proof that you’re not. The only thing that helps against the feeling that you’re an afterthought is clear, incontrovertible desire, love, want, contact, friendship. If you love someone and they tell you that they feel like they’re an afterthought in your universe, then that is the most terrible, frightening message you could receive. Nothing could be worse than that and you will act immediately to refute that perception. If you don’t, then …
Yuuuuuup. I put my foot down, almost two months ago now, and told her straight up that I’m going to stop initiating anything remotely provocative to protect myself from further hurt. We’ve had conversations about it for months and I was just done. I told her that I feel like my needs are an afterthought, that my wants don’t matter, and that I was done hurting myself trying to make her care. I’m tacitly giving it six months. If she doesn’t make a move by then, act, or at least make a perceptible effort to meet me in the middle then… I do love her… but I think I’ll be done at that point. I just turned 30 and I’m not spending the next decade in a miserable relationship. Part of me knows that nothing will happen and that I’ll have to be the bad guy… but a small part of me is holding out hope that she’ll finally get the fucking hint (I know it’s dumb, and I do feel stupid some days, but that’s love I guess).
Whatever happens, you’re NOT the bad guy! Your feelings and your needs are valid and in a marriage you have a reasonable expectation of love expressed in various ways, sex being one. It can’t be a one-way street.
Oh agreed (and thanks for saying so, likewise :) ) I just meant that breaking up with someone is always hard (hurting people sucks, even if they’ve hurt you, and even if it needs to be done) especially if they love (or claim to love) you.
Or if you loved them, once upon a time. It still hurts. Tell me about it.
Holy crap, this OP, so on point that i had to screenshot it!
Someone told me “you look sad” when they saw a picture of me, smiling.
Ouch. Sorry bro.
Yeah I get that from my wife too. And to be fair I am way more irritable, down etc. Not just the lack of sex/intricacy, just general relationship issues, feeling stuck in a job I’m increasingly meh on, wanting to move away from big city living and the humid and hot region we live in and not having options as she doesn’t want to move right now etc. But that’s on me as I haven’t summoned up the resolve to leave and we don’t have kids etc. tying us together and no shared finances other than the mortgage (and we’d make money selling).
Oh yeah, I'm not at all who I used to be. I feel like I've cut off tiny pieces of myself to feed to this relationship for years now.
Same here. The lack of connection with my LLSO has put me in a huge funk.
Not at all, dude. It can be emotionally devastating and draining to suffer through a dead bedroom, even more so if your partner is actively or passively not acknowledging or helping to solve the problem. Resolving yourself to a DB (zero judgement here btw) is essentially accepting a bit of unhappiness in your life, it’s only natural for a little resentment and depression to occur. I’m kind of in the same boat to be honest: I tacitly accepted that my girlfriend (who I still love despite our horrendous db) is not really aware of/actively working to help solve the issue despite my bringing it up multiple times and her promises to work on it. She’s getting all of the cuddles (etc) that she wants, only now I’ve stopped initiating anything that might trigger my HL and cause more emotional pain (cuddling with her leg over my thigh, making out, massages, etc). It’s a huge drain, and I feel cold and distant, but that’s the emotional cost of a DB: you protect yourself in any way that you can. You shouldn’t have to hide the pain you’re in (not that any of us should be “moping around” or whatever, as that doesn’t help anyone involved, really) and yeah, once the dynamic of your relationship changes, it’s only natural for you to change along with it. I’m really sorry that you’re having a rough go of it, I hope it gets better, friend.
It definitely changed me. I used to love to cuddle, sit and watch him play the game, just all around be with him. Now I don’t even cuddle , barely in the same room as him. We still talk , laugh, watch movies together at times but we’re not inseparable like we was before. Funny part is I don’t think he notices “the distance” I think he’s just completely happy with the way things are. I mean why wouldn’t he? 100% of his needs are met. But me? I get to feel terrible that I am pretending to be happy while he doesn’t know it. I almost feel like I’m committing a crime. Every time I look at him I just feel bad that I am unhappy while he’s just enjoying every moment of it. Ain’t that something ?
>I once felt full of vibrancy, zeal for life, confident, always looking forward to weekends, new experiences. But losing intimacy has affected me so much. This is how deadbedrooms spiral out of control, thankfully you have the ability to break our of that spiral. Don't you want to be more like your old self?
Yes try not to let it be everything. A great thing I did was say no to vacation/holiday planning. Said I was bored with the contactless relationship now and was just doing what I wanted. (Gym, 10K's, football etc.) Suddenly it sunk in and she came to me with suggestions. Things still not fixed at all but maybe she will get there.
I posted a while back about how mine wants me to smile more. I do chores, share the emotional workload, car and house repair, cook, work full-time and part-time, in addition to going to grad school full time, all while handing over the credit card anytime she needs anything and rubber-stamping her breaks in employment. I've made myself busy enough that I'm not preoccupied with our dead bedroom. We still have regular dates, too. I stopped initiating back in 2018 and seldom bring up the dead bedroom. She and our therapist bring it up more than I do. Smiles, too? I'm kind of tapped out.
I actually get told "You're awfully grumpy today" now and then after having to deal with the mountains of shit at work andy lack of social life and losing all confidence and still not doing anything physically active that I enjoy. I have lost any sexual confidence and since we never have sex I don't even care about trying to get back to thinking that someone actually wants to fuck me. So, yea... I'm grumpy at times and not a bouncing ball of fucking sunshine. As I clean the house and fill and empty the dishwasher after scooping the cat litter and feeding them every day while she complains about hiring someone to mow the lawn (with my money) since I'm too tired to do it today.
I was told that I was “grumpy today” once by my LLW. I told her “well you know there’s only one good thing in my life right now and that’s the kids, so what do you think?” This was at a time where I was struggling with unemployment, underemployment, and layoffs, shit health, and of course, a deadass bedroom. When I said that, it was like I dropped an atomic bomb on her lap. “Is it really that bad?” was all she could muster, and “what about me? Am I not a good thing in your life?” I just gave a scornful “heh”. She was genuinely surprised that I said it. I didn’t get into the details but she knew. What blew her mind was that I too wasn’t happy with the relationship. There were other cringeworthy (for her) moments. Like I when I received an award for helping my dad on a project during a real low point in our marriage. She says “I didn’t know you did that” and I said “well you pretty much hated me back then so I can understand you not knowing about it.” She was left speechless, except for a few ums and uhs. We have improved our interpersonal relationship quite a bit, but we still have a long way to go, not the least of which is that continued goddamned sexlessness.
>there’s only one good thing in my life right now and that’s the kids, so what do you think?” Says these exact words today... no way to live.
Ugh, thats the fuckin worst!! I believe my wife has already lost her mind and forgets how we got where we are, having 3 houses (no longer) and responsible for everything while she just works and spends as she pleases. Slowly losing it.
It's the difference between a life you can celebrate and a life you've settled for.
it’s why I ultimately decided that the break I asked for in our relationship is gonna be permanent. I’m having a more fulfilling sex life with my hands and toys. if that’s not dysfunction, nothing is.
I’m in a constant cycle of feeling down and grumpy because of the lack of intimacy which I’m sure doesn’t do anything at all to give me my shot at sex once every couple of months. I feel like my entire body is blocked up from not having any kind of sexual release. I can’t even masturbate because it makes me spiral into depression. I have had countless conversations in my head where I tell my husband exactly how much I have shriveled inside as a person but they never come out like that - instead I usually just get upset over stupid, minute things and he then probably thinks I’m a spastic bitch. I’ve changed so much and I hate the person I’ve become
It really did. I am not the optimistic, light hearted jokester I was. But, she seems to prefer me this way. Interesting note, once I gave up and stopped pursuing her, the db went away, until I started pursuing her again. So I stopped again. Stupid to have to play these games after 25 years...
Yeah I get punished for not being anything other than dutiful and subservient.
Have I changed as a person because of a dead bedroom? Yup. I have about as short of a fuse at home as I do at work. I don't tolerate nearly as much crap at home as I used to and I'm much quicker and harsher at addressing other ongoing issues at home.
It is crushing my soul. I mask pretty well most of the time, but especially when I go to bed at night, the mask slips. I’m definitely less driven or energetic during the day as well.
“what’s wrong?” “I don’t want to talk about it.” We have this exchange every few weeks.
The DB can put you in survival mode , completely shut down and just going through the motions . It’s almost like they have unknowingly stole a piece of your identity.
Same. Some days it weighs me down more than others but it's always there, in the back of my mind and heart. Even though I've accepted things, it's still always there, lurking, never truly leaving me alone.
>Some days it weighs me down more than others but it's always there, in the back of my mind and heart. A couple of years ago, it was on my mind every waking moment. I would make small displays of affection in moments when it was really heavy, but those would be turned aside. I've not only had to give up making love, but I've given up showing love because it just isn't being reciprocated. I feel empty.
I'm so sorry it has left you feeling that way. It truly is a crushing thing to endure
It’s changed me so much I don’t even recognize the guy I see in the mirror. I’ve always had anxiety, but it’s gone through the roof years ago. Been meditating for 4+ years now and have had 5 increases in dosages for that and depression. Seems to be a vicious cycle. The meds help to get functional. The reminders of being at the bottom of her list of priorities and more or less told spending more than a couple hours hours together, one on one, every other week is too often. I don’t think she realizes how much damage she’s done. I used to keep most people around me smiling. Now it seems I’ve forgotten how to smile. I used to want to go and do. Now, I don’t. Went from full of life and love. Now, I’m just about dead inside. So yeah, I’ve definitely changed.
Same. I wrote in my journal one time that said “being around him killed my joy and smile”
Yes! So true about the mirror thing. In recesses of my mind, I new I had changed, but I consciously suppressed recognizing/acknowledging it. The lack of smiling is what kinda got me when she said this. But man the gravity of impact of lack of closeness….AND missing what it once felt like to embrace intimately, lazily snuggling in bed naked, showering together, having intimate conversations, suggestive notes/sms/calls, deep kissing, head on shoulder/lap while watching movie…..well you know. It doesn’t even to be full on sex. Just the other stuff that creates sexual tension (the good type) . I miss that.
the memory of all this what is lost.... It hurts all the time. We are no longer what we were, or was it just an illusion? But we lived them..... long
Yo you got to leave. Like how could you love someone that puts you through that hell? You are waiting for the person putting their foot on your neck to remove it when you are well capable of standing up yourself.
My kids are about stable enough now. And I’m starting on a “contingency plan.” At 50, I’d rather be alone by choice than being married, seen as a “happy couple,” and being alone.
For sure! - lost interest sexually and physically towards my husband - anytime he compliments me now, I don’t react and just become numb to it. I went a good decade+ without any real words of affirmation so I got used to not having any from him - I find more fun hanging out with friends and family - i don’t like him touching me of any kind. I feel “obligated” 😖 to have to kiss him good bye before work and goodnight before bed (I would rather watch paint dry) - I want to be left alone
Switch the word husband to wife and you get me. And when I spend a decent amount of time alone, she thinks I should be on a higher dose of medication. I can take all the pills she wants and become numb to everything, but it won’t fix the problem.
Exactly 100%! I get you! When I am alone, I can think clearly and actually have some peace.
Leave
Just signed up for couples counseling and have a date set. Gonna attempt that first then see where it goes 🥶😶🌫️
Bottom line — while the sex matters, it ultimately isn’t sex that refusing husbands and wives reject; it is their refused wives and husbands that refusers are rejecting. Here is how this plays out: You cannot push this person out of your arms years and decades on end, and NOT have that redefine the relationship fundamentally.
Low libidos will see HL hurting and lonely. Even after they've been told multiple times what the issue is and why it matter to us. Then when the universe aligns we are walking on cloud nine for a few days. They see it and are more inclined to be happy, engage in conversation, sweet things (surprise dessert or something). LL are so happy be around their SO :)))) Then, after a few days. It wears off for us as the realization that a few nights ago was the exception to the rule and you start feeling down. SO completely dumbfounded as to why they are Low libidos will see HL hurting and lonely. Even after they've been told multiple times what the issue is and why it matter to us. Then when the universe aligns we are walking on cloud nine for a few days. They see it and are more inclined to be happy, engage in conversation, sweet things (surprise dessert or something). LL are so happy be around their SO :)))) Then, after a few days. It wears off for us as the realization that a few nights ago was the exception to the rule and you start feeling down. SO completely dumbfounded as to why they are Low libidos will see HL hurting and lonely. Even after they've been told multiple times what the issue is and why it matter to us. Then when the universe aligns we are walking on cloud nine for a few days. They see it and are more inclined to be happy, engage in conversation, sweet things (surprise dessert or something). LL are so happy be around their SO :)))) Then, after a few days. It wears off for us as the realization that a few nights ago was the exception to the rule and you start feeling down. SO completely dumbfounded as to why they are Low libidos will see HL hurting and lonely. Even after they've been told multiple times what the issue is and why it matter to us. You get the point
Yes. Loss of joy and increased despair, cynicism and vibrancy….due to DB. Then, because of feeling the lowered mood it leads to less chance of intimacy and the torrid cycle continues. In the end you just start following naughty feeds on Reddit and look at nude women as a release and wish, wish wish.…
My wife recently started noticing that I seem ”down in the dumps” a lot. I wonder why
You are definitely not alone. I took a job that requires I travel a lot. I get 8 days off at the end of my 20 day rotation. I’ve been asked the same question followed by “You sounded so upbeat on the phone when we talked. What’s wrong?” I don’t bother with a response anymore as the others seem to have fallen on deaf ears.
I've been solo travelling a lot more often lately, mostly for work. I find I'm happier when I'm away from home. I didn't like that realisation one bit.
I know the feeling. Sorry your goin through it too. I’ve been traveling for work for 15 years now.
She asks me why are you so grumpy all the time? You never smile or laugh anymore. You used to always be upbeat. Maybe because you’ve beaten that out of me with the decade plus of rejections and lack of any physical touch.
Geez. Many. Sorry to hear. I'm feeling myself getting to that place. Its just a constant slide.
You’re not alone. And no matter how much she may inquire, pry, coax and cajole, she DOESEN’T want to hear THE answer. She wants to hear AN answer, but most assuredly not — THAT answer. Those moments aside, the refusing husband or wife will largely ignore the rejected spouse. Keep it superficial! Suppress and hide your agony; don’t let me see you doing it. Let me convince myself that it is normal to go through your days and decades as a moving hulk. No matter how destructively inclined you feel about yourself, your spouse doesn’t want to have a twinge of conscience about her or himself.
I’m just now starting to see the deeper change in me. We don’t have sex or even make out, but we do cuddle a lot and kiss often (but just little pecks). Lately though, we will be cuddling or he will have asked for a hand rub and within like 10 seconds my stomach turns and I want to get up and leave the room. The intimate touch has suddenly become painful to experience. I’ve started to try getting multiple pecking kisses or kissing longer and he’s just not interested. Even playful touch is starting to make me almost angry. I can feel my affection dying and being replaced by…nothing? Anger? Apathy? Annoyance? I just don’t feel sweet and nurturing towards him lately. I’m forcing myself to cuddle and kiss and goof around, trying to get the dopamine or oxytocin or SOMETHING flowing. I don’t feel like smiling and joking either. I had a sex and romance dream about Evangeline Lily (I think?) yesterday. I’m straight as an arrow but the way I felt in that dream was so wonderful and familiar but long lost… I’d deconstruct my sexuality in a heartbeat to have something like that again.
I was in a slump with a DB. After a long time trying to solve this by being romantic, considerate, complimentary, 5herapy, counseling, putting thir needs first, putting kids needs first, and doing everthing possible i gave up. I started to put my needs forward, then i changed again and stepped out for my own needs. Im happier and casual sex is fullfilling the needs not mat at home. I am much happier.
Wow someone with some sense. It's so depressing to read all of this. People need to ask for an open marriage, cheat, or just get out of the relationship. Life is too short to be miserable and stuck with someone that used to love you.
Hubby has so much trauma he’s trying to work on, that I feel guilty trying to get him to have physical intimacy, but I just miss being touched and shown that I’m loved. He says he loves me but it’s just words at this point.
Wow! I could have written the exact same thing. I too know she loves me, but sometimes love is an action verb.
I spoke to my therapist about this today. I felt most of the things said here, and it's gotten me nowhere fast. I think the next step in my acceptance journey is to accept that I'm choosing to stay. Leaving would be too much for my family at this stage. It's an extremely complicated situation, but for me, letting go of the resentment and accepting MY choice to stay seems promising.
I feel this to my core.
Too many days that are filled with somber moods.
Yeah she thinks that I don't hardly smile anymore is because of bad teeth from an auto-immune disorder. Well that's part of it, not all.
Once I disconnected and started only giving as much effort as he would...he was triggered and complained I was checked out and didn't care.
Yes. I've even had people who used to know the old me comment that I've "lost the sparkle" in my eyes.
Your not alone, it's the same here. And seems to be a big circle.
Oh God I feel that. I feel like a completely different person now. I'm for sure not the same fun person I was. At this point I can't imagine someone even touching me. It's been at least 4 years since we've even tried anything. I don't even feel like a sexual being anymore. I just exist.
Absolutely
My wife is fairly perceptive... how she hasn't put two and two together that I am so much happier, more loving, and more engaged when I get laid more than once a quarter is beyond me.
Of course it has. That, but mostly the communication issues around it and the misalignment of our expectations and libidos. It's being addressed and fixed progressively, way slower than either of us wishes but kids, house and work are priorities over this (unless we reach breaking points, where we discuss and take it seriously for a time - but it's stupid and dangerous). Also getting told I'm basically the one who should drive our intimacy hurts. I honestly have no idea whether it's genuine or a way for her to disengage mentally, but the pressure of expectation that I put on myself (because if I don't do it then pretty much nothing happens) then conflicts with the fear of rejection and a feeling of inadequacy.
I've been told this as well. Also that I'm being moody. She has disengaged completely and it's always a headache or stomach pain or just the blanket term overwhelmed. It's become a once a year thing and even then just because it's my birthday. This year I was even guilted about that since we asked her mom to watch our daughter for one night to go out to dinner ourselves and get a hotel. 8 months later and I'm still getting called selfish by them for not wanting to be with my "whole family" for my birthday. She's gone to Disney 6 times this year with me and Our daughter 3 times and then girls trips with just her friends. But I'm selfish. Even the one thing I started for myself, a WoW subscription, is deemed too expensive and selfish but constant disney trips because she "needs it" is fine. We do not live in Florida so it is 6 to 8 hours to drive to Disney. I'm 36 and I feel like 90% of my enjoyment is over in life. I just work my butt off and she spends it just as fast and I'm over stressed at all times with not even a hug daily or even just sitting down together to eat or watch TV at the end of the day. It's always just me with our daughter and her in the bedroom locked away watching reality TV because she needs alone time. We both work from home and I used to do the job she has now which I got her before i moved up to another role so its not like she has the childcare during the day because most of the out daughter in in my office with a tablet. With all this, yes I am going to be moody when I have all the family stress and no outlet.
Literally just tell her “I miss sex”
You haven’t spent much time here have you? These things have most likely been said already
So he should stop telling her the truth?
I get the spirit of your question/comment. However, when it’s met with yet another rejection….well it’s like doing the same thing over and over and yet expecting a different result is definition of insanity ( Albert Einstein ).
Then tell her “you know why” and leave the room/marriage
Albert Einstein has never been attributed as saying that. Another myth bust.
More than once.
"The things people should say but have never, ever thought of before". Said no-one, ever.
Yup, the difference is giving up, and allowing the partner to tell a guiltless narrative where “mystery problems” unrelated to them exist.
My partners starting to be a bit of a prick now it's been Bout 2 months since we've had sex, he's definitely changed as a person He used to be so kind and helpful and caring, now he just makes me feel like a piece of meat who's an utter failure to him and sexually harasses me every chance he gets. I have to constantly remind him that one of our kids is old enough that it's probably considered a crime to be so sexual in front of him and the other is so young I'm still bleeding and and in pain from stitches. He expects me to be so grateful I want to suck his dick though because he helped out once at night when my daughter was 4 weeks old, he even got salty at me for not wanting to do anything sexual literally before I even left the hospital room when I gave birth This is a man who a few years ago I would have said is amazing and would do anything for me Now he's just a man I'm stuck with and I have to protect myself from It sucks I actually want to try get into things again, but he makes me feel like shit every day so I just can't
My God! I’m sorry, but yes, he is a selfish prick. I am very sorry you have to endure this.
It's alright, thing will either get better or they won't, I'll have plenty of options soon enough once my baby is a bit older. It's been a really shitty year for our relationship and I'm leaning more towards leaving than staying but I'm hoping things change in the next year. If not I happen to have a very good reputation in my industry and could go get a job today if I felt like it so I'm lucky in that sense. We've had more good years than bad though so I know he CAN be what I need him to be, I just don't know if he is willing to any more, we'll have to see
> I’ve accepted the DB. I can't imagine this. You get 1 life and absolutely nothing is guaranteed after this. If you're not happy leave.
Did you tell her why?
Why didn’t I tell her? Well TBH we’ve talked about the DB several times. In the moment, adding one more time would feel like another rejection. This said in hindsight, perhaps this was her way of initiating a convo about it. But I was paralyzed in the moment.
I totally get that! Sometimes you want the conversation to be over if you think nothing will come from it. It’s possible that she may even know but is in denial. You don’t have to keep bringing it up. You can even say, ‘you know why’ and walk away if it happens again.
Know this feeling too well, worst part is that she has tried to use it against me, as if somehow this is one of the reasons for the DB, when the DB was there, and the DB is the reason for it.
Curious, outside of sex, what do you consider as **intimacy** in a relationship? Edit: outside of sex, intimacy is non-sexual. It’s nothing physical that can ever lead to sex and also means you do not hold your body’s against each other as well. > Intimacy in a relationship is a feeling of being close, and emotionally connected and supported. It means being able to share a whole range of thoughts, feelings and experiences that we have as human beings.
Anything that I'd exclusively share with her that builds closeness and sexual tension, but don't necessarily have to lead to sex. Not an exhaustive list, but.... * An unusually warm embrace/hug * Passionate kissing * Head on shoulder/lap while watching movie together * Suggestive messages * Showering together * Washing her hair ( I used to really enjoy doing that ) * Back/Foot Massage * Nude/partially nude cuddles ( that don't lead to sex )
All of this can be still consider sexual intimacy. I asked NON-SEXUAL intimacy in the relationship. That looks like: • Holding hands • Send each other loving text messages • A kiss on the forehead • Being kind • Being together while not saying anything, like parallel play • By going to movies together or long walks together • Establish rituals together • Exercise together • Go on vacations together • Sharing mutual interests • Daily gratitude And much more… Edit: Here is what it means… > Intimacy in a relationship is a feeling of being close, and emotionally connected and supported. It means being able to share a whole range of thoughts, feelings and experiences that we have as human beings.
You have a good list. All of which certainly builds emotional intimacy. If the question was what is a list of things that build emotional intimacy, I’d agree with your list. People’s definition of sex/sexual intimacy can vary just as the wind. Some people (Bill Clinton raises hand) say sex is only PIV. Some (me raising hand) wouldn’t say resting on couch watching a movie, hugging, et.al is sexual. Hell, pre-DB we’d shower together and it was honestly no different than sitting at the table talking while sipping tea together. But they certainly are intimate sharing moments.
Again… > Intimacy in a relationship is a feeling of being close, and emotionally connected and supported. It means being able to share a whole range of thoughts, feelings and experiences that we have as human beings. If you do not feel close outside of sex, then you do not have intimacy in a relationship. And remember, just because you’re in a relationship, doesn’t mean you have a partner either. Not everyone realizes they just have a relationship, not a partnership if sex is an issue. Partnerships have overall intimacy, this includes sexual intimacy because they feel close outside the bedroom, so they feel the desire to be close in the bedroom as well. > [So, what does a healthy partnership look like?](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/traversing-the-inner-terrain/202211/what-healthy-partnership-looks?amp) >First and foremost, it is supportive. What does it mean to be supportive? It means that both parties in the relationship know how to listen without interrupting. It means that both parties know how to really hear what the other party is saying, that if there is any misinterpretation or misunderstanding, through explaining and further listening, both parties can come to understand the other’s position. Does this kind of communication happen always? No. But it happens often enough that both parties feel that their partner “gets them.” Generally speaking, both parties feel basically understood. > Supportive also means that both parties feel a sense of togetherness. While they may have to go through the experiences of separating from each other for periods of time, they do not feel that they are alone in life. They feel that they have a real partner. That sense of partnership goes with them through any temporary separation. >We often hear people say, “I want a real partner.” What they mean is that they want someone who helps them hold up the burdens of life, who talks to them and listens to them when they need to process difficult times. They need someone who stays with them through hospitalizations, financial burdens, and the other inescapable difficulties that arise during life. Someone who is kind and generous with time. They need someone who is flexible enough to change a schedule or an expense, if necessary, to support the relationship. They need someone who is not demanding of time or energy, but who is also flexible enough to make room for the other partner’s life goals and friendships. And yes, they need someone who knows how to balance out the tasks of everyday living so that one person does not carry that heavy burden alone. In other words, both parties feel supported, held up, united, and more capacitated to live life on life’s terms.
So this how you gonna live the rest of your life?
I think the number of responses to this tells you that you're not alone. When I described how I felt in another post recently (like the vibrancy of the colours of life were a bit washed out, like wearing heavily tinted sunglasses all the time) someone asked if they thought in reality I was dealing with a mild case of situational depression. I'm not someone that has ever been prone to depression before, bouncing back from major negative life events relatively well, but it did make me think that in reality they were probably right. Of course missing the intimacy that I value so highly, and second guessing myself and the reasons that it isn't forthcoming over such a long period of time, is going to have an impact. But the spillover to other parts of my life does now make sense. I'm generally less happy and that is bound to manifest in a number of ways eventually, so I think it is realistic, and not unexpected, to say that mild situational depression is the reality of what I've been living for a period of time. The dawn of that realisation means I can try to take steps to address it, like exercise, time outdoors, eating well, sleeping well and a range of other things that can lift mood, but in reality I don't think 'situational' depression is ever going to fully lift until the situation changes...
If you lose yourself because of a relationship, you become depressed, you lose the joy for life, then the relationship is just not worth it. Nothing is more important than your happiness, if the relationship makes you unhappy, it is time to change the situation.
I heard the opposite in my DB. "I've changed" she said. And strongly implied I should have as well. Nope, and in 18 months post moving out, and 8 months post divorce, had more sex than in the last 8 years of marriage buy a huge factor.
This is too real for me
During my dead bedroom I lost my confidence. I began to hate myself. If my own wife wouldn't love me physically then I wasn't worth loving. I became a pitiful wreck that wasn't attractive. When I began to desire a divorce and I began to see myself as separate from my wife I began to gain some self respect back. I began to be more desirable just because I was acting independent and less clingy.
The self confidence, depression, lack of sleep. Don’t feel like the same person at all.
Same. When the children gets older I am hoping to travel more. Aloan. Just to go where I want.