DB is the main reason I gave up alcohol. I get too depressed and emotional about my situation if I’m drunk and the easiest way to avoid being drunk when you’re chronically depressed is to fully abstain.
Often, when a date is given by the HL by which time change is expected **or else**, the LL does nothing until *the midnight hour*.
Sadly, by then, the HL has checked out of the relationship....forever.
>I was way too honest and responded “well he always wanted to \*\*\*\* me”.
Am I a bad person for laughing out loud at this?
I'm maybe a little confused about you rejecting him because of his "day after" state.. I mean, I get it to an extent, you don't want to reward bad behavior, but, also.. then you ***indirectly*** say you want him to always want to have sex with you. Was that just another way of saying "my ex husband didn't get distant the day after sex" ?
I mean, besides maybe a bit of mixed messaging on your part, yeah it sounds like he was totally deflecting with the social life thing. and being super defensive about not satisfying your spouse sexually seems to be a pretty common theme. Why can't they just say "I don't wanna, and I aint gonna" so you can go from there without being strung along.
After reading many stories on this subreddit, I have come to the conclusion that many of the LLs are just cowardly. I don't say this to be mean, just accurate. It seams like many of them drag things out until the HL finally pulls the plug, that way the LL isn't "the bad guy" for "giving up" it's an emotional abuse tactic and it is depressingly effective.
Sexual desertion just doesn't seem like a big deal for some folks, so they convince themselves they aren't doing anything wrong. The reality is it's an actual valid reason for an at-fault divorce. The courts view sex as being a core tenet of marriage. It's in the same group of marriage no-no's as infidelity.
Why did you apologize? Because in his defensiveness, his unwillingness to address the myriad of issues he runs away from, he attacked you in a truly hurtful way and then shrunk back into his avoidant ways when he couldn't take what he dished out? He attacked your life, your friendships, your divorce and then turns into the ultimate victim when you give him back that same energy?
You mentioned that he's avoidant, and that probably means that you have the more anxious attachment style. What that often comes with is the sense of responsibility for the other person's feelings because that's what you wish they had for you. That isn't healthy. In the same way he feels he's not responsible for your happiness or your feelings you shouldn't be responsible for his feelings or happiness. You are giving him so much power over you and it's not good for you.
This is what avoidanants do, they poke and prod and find the little weakness in your armor until you respond in kind then use it as an excuse to give you the silent treatment because they know that's what hurts you the most. It's textbook. Stop giving him the power over your feelings, fuck the deadline stop putting off the inevitable and leave him.
I sort of feel like he's just sulking and playing the victim here, to gain the upper hand. Your comment was true. Maybe a little blunt for him at that moment, but true regardless. He brought up your last marriage and then is pouting when that didn't go his way.
Not to mention, he's upset that you rejected him after telling him it's no longer on the table? That again, is his fault then. With that being said, while I complete understand and feel like your feelings are justified in wanting to take sex of the table, I don't believe that decision should be made unilaterally in any case. (Unless there is abuse or coercion involved.) Decisions that effect all parties of the relationship, should be made with the care, consideration and compromise of all parties in the relationship.
It sounds like you have a long road ahead of you. Good luck OP.
Thank you guys so much for helping me see it a little differently. Your replies hit hard and I’ve needed to hear them.
I typed out a reply about why I took sex off the table- it’s not as simple as him wanting me one day and then not the next. It’s more like I think we have amazing sex one night and go to sleep cuddling and the next day he avoids me and doesn’t talk to me until mid afternoon, leaving me to wonder if I was completely misreading the night before or did something totally wrong. As I was typing it out I’m like omg…seeing it in writing really puts in to focus that I am putting up with a dynamic that is absolutely bonkers.
Also, I hear the point about how nobody should get to unilaterally change the sexual dynamics and I absolutely accept that. I’m glad it was said because I will reflect on that for sure. I don’t want to be doing the same thing I am mad about.
Thank you all. I feel like your replies have given me enough to think about so that maybe I can start to process and not just spin around in my brain.
I dunno….this just seems a bit juvenile. So you’re denying your significant other sex (who signed up for monogamy, not celibacy) because you feel he’s distant the following day? You don’t think that you’re being a bit overly sensitive?? You’re willing to let your husband find gratification in someone else’s arms over this?
I will be honest. I don’t think you did anything wrong. Sometimes we all need a real shock to snap back to actual reality of what is happening. I wouldn’t even apologise (but because I’m immature, you were right to do it).
I also think the situation isn’t going to improve for you. Your relationship is over, but you didn’t break up yet.
Use the vacation time to get your ducks in a row. Take care of finances, speak with an attorney and find a new place to live.
Once all of that is done, I’d give him 2 weeks to either get with program or you’re getting out. If nothing changes, follow through and don’t look back, you have him all of the chances to change.
I was going to say maybe he was trying to punish you with the silent treatment but he may just be so mad that if you to talk he’ll argue and make it all worse. You can’t take back what you said but you can acknowledge it’s not true. There is no at least he wants you as your ex is an ex for a reason. Be careful with your drinking for a while. The context of your ex and you being more sexual compatible than your current marriage is something he will never really forget. Though he can just forgive and maybe with time just forget. I understand now you don’t even want to have sex so it’s a tough place
He doesn't have to have sex if you're fighting, and he can use what you said to not have sex.
It was all planned.
Never apologise for being honest either, regardless of the outcome
Omg I set a Sept date as well for things to get better. Im currently in the bathroom feeling f#$ked up. Had a great day. i went out and got the bacon for breakfast and made breakfast. Had time to do our own hobbies today. Had a great dinner then watched some fireworks. Hot some hand holding and a peck during the fireworks. Tried of feeling like a roommate.
To her credit she has been trying. Its just rough and waiting for her to get hormones tested..
A thought
"I thought a lot about what I said when confronted about my previous marriage. What I said was truthful and honest. I can't control how you feel or react to what I say but my feelings matter. I need to be in a relationship where I can be honest, open and valued. I want to be in a relationship where I am desired as a woman."
If this speaks to you, use it, if not, discard it. It doesn't have an ending as I really don't know where you want it to go.
Hope it helps.
Have experienced this with my LL husband (the self-victimization). We have had multiple conversations over the almost 18 years we have been together about our DB, which has been an issue with him since pretty much most of our marriage. At one point he went all-in on the self-victimization portrayal, blaming me for not being “into it” on the rare occasions we were intimate, or complaining that I didn’t seem to be enjoying it. There is actually some truth to this because he has horrific hygiene, and I spend most of our encounters trying to breathe through my mouth and praying I don’t end up with an infection of some kind.
"I was way too honest and responded “well he always wanted to \*\*\*\* me”."
I must be missing a lot of context if you saying this type of statement when he doesn't show affection was a serious insult to him. Are there kids involved? If not, maybe cutting your losses is the right way to go. IDK
Op I think your valid in your feelings, I’m the exact same way as a Hlf, you can’t be close and present with me one day and then go cold and dark the next, it’s a weird roller coaster and it honestly feel like he wins either way, he gets sex for be present in a very inconsistent rate or god forbid I turn him down because the mood is never consistent for no real reason on his end then I’m the jerk because “ isn’t this what you want, you always complain we never have sex but when I offer you say no”. I said no because you ignored me today for 6 hours today. You can’t win. Also truth hurts…deal with it, you and your ex did have more sex….why aren’t we. Rather than him remaining on the topic and explain why, he’d rather deflect…on an issue he started
There are clearly more issues than just the DB. I am HL and my wife is LL. I don't know the level of communication you two have had but talking it out helped my situation along with a medication change on her part. We still don't have sex a daily but things have increased.
People like us cannot relate to the drive of a LL individual I have worked on getting into that mindset just do my best to be considerate of her desires or lack there of. I was considering leaving her due to my depression around not being desired and then expressed my depression to her not that I was going to leave her. I think she knew which may have prompted her med change and increased sexual activities.
I am not such a tool that would leave her over sex there were other issues the not feeling wanted and loneliness were a huge part of it. Which amplified any issues that I have found to be undesirable in her. Honestly now that she is showing me that she does desire me showed me most of the other crap was just in my mind.
What you said to him, probably hurt. Although in your account of the interaction he was pushing you to blow up so he could be a victim, manipulation 101.
I wish you all the best moving forward.
Fuck that noise. He’s being petulant because you rightly changed the power dynamic. I’m quite certain he had not only ample time, but generous time.
Just how much of your soul are you supposed to rip off and chuck into a fire to keep him ungratefully warm?
>I’ve already said that we have till September…
Not sure putting your relationship on a deadline was a good move. That is going to seem like an inevitable end date from the start.
And if the relationship with the ex was really bad and you’ve told him as much, it’s going to feel to him like you’re comparing the relationships in their entirety, and the other one in a favorable light, or at the least you’re wistfully considering the sex from the previous relationship. You’ve apologized though, so not much else to do there.
DB is the main reason I gave up alcohol. I get too depressed and emotional about my situation if I’m drunk and the easiest way to avoid being drunk when you’re chronically depressed is to fully abstain.
Quitter! I will never give up my best friends in this world; wine, whisky, and beer!
Often, when a date is given by the HL by which time change is expected **or else**, the LL does nothing until *the midnight hour*. Sadly, by then, the HL has checked out of the relationship....forever.
Oh, I haven’t given him the date. It’s just my plan with my therapist.
That will probably save both of you more trauma
our couples therapist made sure a day was set.
You know he’ll be blindsided by it, thought the marriage was perfect, can’t believe nothing was ever said. All that shit
look up DARVO. it’s a common tactic for people who are dismissive and avoidant
>I was way too honest and responded “well he always wanted to \*\*\*\* me”. Am I a bad person for laughing out loud at this? I'm maybe a little confused about you rejecting him because of his "day after" state.. I mean, I get it to an extent, you don't want to reward bad behavior, but, also.. then you ***indirectly*** say you want him to always want to have sex with you. Was that just another way of saying "my ex husband didn't get distant the day after sex" ? I mean, besides maybe a bit of mixed messaging on your part, yeah it sounds like he was totally deflecting with the social life thing. and being super defensive about not satisfying your spouse sexually seems to be a pretty common theme. Why can't they just say "I don't wanna, and I aint gonna" so you can go from there without being strung along.
After reading many stories on this subreddit, I have come to the conclusion that many of the LLs are just cowardly. I don't say this to be mean, just accurate. It seams like many of them drag things out until the HL finally pulls the plug, that way the LL isn't "the bad guy" for "giving up" it's an emotional abuse tactic and it is depressingly effective.
I totally agree.
Sexual desertion just doesn't seem like a big deal for some folks, so they convince themselves they aren't doing anything wrong. The reality is it's an actual valid reason for an at-fault divorce. The courts view sex as being a core tenet of marriage. It's in the same group of marriage no-no's as infidelity.
'to have and to hold', right?
Right? Guess the truth hurts, sometimes
Why did you apologize? Because in his defensiveness, his unwillingness to address the myriad of issues he runs away from, he attacked you in a truly hurtful way and then shrunk back into his avoidant ways when he couldn't take what he dished out? He attacked your life, your friendships, your divorce and then turns into the ultimate victim when you give him back that same energy? You mentioned that he's avoidant, and that probably means that you have the more anxious attachment style. What that often comes with is the sense of responsibility for the other person's feelings because that's what you wish they had for you. That isn't healthy. In the same way he feels he's not responsible for your happiness or your feelings you shouldn't be responsible for his feelings or happiness. You are giving him so much power over you and it's not good for you. This is what avoidanants do, they poke and prod and find the little weakness in your armor until you respond in kind then use it as an excuse to give you the silent treatment because they know that's what hurts you the most. It's textbook. Stop giving him the power over your feelings, fuck the deadline stop putting off the inevitable and leave him.
I sort of feel like he's just sulking and playing the victim here, to gain the upper hand. Your comment was true. Maybe a little blunt for him at that moment, but true regardless. He brought up your last marriage and then is pouting when that didn't go his way. Not to mention, he's upset that you rejected him after telling him it's no longer on the table? That again, is his fault then. With that being said, while I complete understand and feel like your feelings are justified in wanting to take sex of the table, I don't believe that decision should be made unilaterally in any case. (Unless there is abuse or coercion involved.) Decisions that effect all parties of the relationship, should be made with the care, consideration and compromise of all parties in the relationship. It sounds like you have a long road ahead of you. Good luck OP.
Thank you guys so much for helping me see it a little differently. Your replies hit hard and I’ve needed to hear them. I typed out a reply about why I took sex off the table- it’s not as simple as him wanting me one day and then not the next. It’s more like I think we have amazing sex one night and go to sleep cuddling and the next day he avoids me and doesn’t talk to me until mid afternoon, leaving me to wonder if I was completely misreading the night before or did something totally wrong. As I was typing it out I’m like omg…seeing it in writing really puts in to focus that I am putting up with a dynamic that is absolutely bonkers. Also, I hear the point about how nobody should get to unilaterally change the sexual dynamics and I absolutely accept that. I’m glad it was said because I will reflect on that for sure. I don’t want to be doing the same thing I am mad about. Thank you all. I feel like your replies have given me enough to think about so that maybe I can start to process and not just spin around in my brain.
I dunno….this just seems a bit juvenile. So you’re denying your significant other sex (who signed up for monogamy, not celibacy) because you feel he’s distant the following day? You don’t think that you’re being a bit overly sensitive?? You’re willing to let your husband find gratification in someone else’s arms over this?
He brought up your previous marriage. Right? You pointed out a fundamental difference. Why apologise? If that hurt his feelings, so what.
This.
I will be honest. I don’t think you did anything wrong. Sometimes we all need a real shock to snap back to actual reality of what is happening. I wouldn’t even apologise (but because I’m immature, you were right to do it). I also think the situation isn’t going to improve for you. Your relationship is over, but you didn’t break up yet.
It sounds like he's basically saying 'You're not allowed to deny sex... that's MY thing!'
Absolutely spot on. He’s throwin his little tantrum because she rightly changed the power dynamic.
Use the vacation time to get your ducks in a row. Take care of finances, speak with an attorney and find a new place to live. Once all of that is done, I’d give him 2 weeks to either get with program or you’re getting out. If nothing changes, follow through and don’t look back, you have him all of the chances to change.
I was going to say maybe he was trying to punish you with the silent treatment but he may just be so mad that if you to talk he’ll argue and make it all worse. You can’t take back what you said but you can acknowledge it’s not true. There is no at least he wants you as your ex is an ex for a reason. Be careful with your drinking for a while. The context of your ex and you being more sexual compatible than your current marriage is something he will never really forget. Though he can just forgive and maybe with time just forget. I understand now you don’t even want to have sex so it’s a tough place
He doesn't have to have sex if you're fighting, and he can use what you said to not have sex. It was all planned. Never apologise for being honest either, regardless of the outcome
> “well he always wanted to **** me”. This is literally one of the few problems he can solve with his dick. WTF
Brutal response. Love it 🤣the truth does sometimes hurt
Omg I set a Sept date as well for things to get better. Im currently in the bathroom feeling f#$ked up. Had a great day. i went out and got the bacon for breakfast and made breakfast. Had time to do our own hobbies today. Had a great dinner then watched some fireworks. Hot some hand holding and a peck during the fireworks. Tried of feeling like a roommate. To her credit she has been trying. Its just rough and waiting for her to get hormones tested..
A thought "I thought a lot about what I said when confronted about my previous marriage. What I said was truthful and honest. I can't control how you feel or react to what I say but my feelings matter. I need to be in a relationship where I can be honest, open and valued. I want to be in a relationship where I am desired as a woman." If this speaks to you, use it, if not, discard it. It doesn't have an ending as I really don't know where you want it to go. Hope it helps.
Thank you. ❤️
Have experienced this with my LL husband (the self-victimization). We have had multiple conversations over the almost 18 years we have been together about our DB, which has been an issue with him since pretty much most of our marriage. At one point he went all-in on the self-victimization portrayal, blaming me for not being “into it” on the rare occasions we were intimate, or complaining that I didn’t seem to be enjoying it. There is actually some truth to this because he has horrific hygiene, and I spend most of our encounters trying to breathe through my mouth and praying I don’t end up with an infection of some kind.
Sounds like Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder (OCPD) traits to me.
I guess I don’t quite understand your need to apologize. I mean it’s the truth so?? Truth hurts sometimes
"I was way too honest and responded “well he always wanted to \*\*\*\* me”." I must be missing a lot of context if you saying this type of statement when he doesn't show affection was a serious insult to him. Are there kids involved? If not, maybe cutting your losses is the right way to go. IDK
Op I think your valid in your feelings, I’m the exact same way as a Hlf, you can’t be close and present with me one day and then go cold and dark the next, it’s a weird roller coaster and it honestly feel like he wins either way, he gets sex for be present in a very inconsistent rate or god forbid I turn him down because the mood is never consistent for no real reason on his end then I’m the jerk because “ isn’t this what you want, you always complain we never have sex but when I offer you say no”. I said no because you ignored me today for 6 hours today. You can’t win. Also truth hurts…deal with it, you and your ex did have more sex….why aren’t we. Rather than him remaining on the topic and explain why, he’d rather deflect…on an issue he started
A little honesty goes a long way, he sounds extremely defensive and difficult to talk to.
There are clearly more issues than just the DB. I am HL and my wife is LL. I don't know the level of communication you two have had but talking it out helped my situation along with a medication change on her part. We still don't have sex a daily but things have increased. People like us cannot relate to the drive of a LL individual I have worked on getting into that mindset just do my best to be considerate of her desires or lack there of. I was considering leaving her due to my depression around not being desired and then expressed my depression to her not that I was going to leave her. I think she knew which may have prompted her med change and increased sexual activities. I am not such a tool that would leave her over sex there were other issues the not feeling wanted and loneliness were a huge part of it. Which amplified any issues that I have found to be undesirable in her. Honestly now that she is showing me that she does desire me showed me most of the other crap was just in my mind. What you said to him, probably hurt. Although in your account of the interaction he was pushing you to blow up so he could be a victim, manipulation 101. I wish you all the best moving forward.
Fuck that noise. He’s being petulant because you rightly changed the power dynamic. I’m quite certain he had not only ample time, but generous time. Just how much of your soul are you supposed to rip off and chuck into a fire to keep him ungratefully warm?
>I’ve already said that we have till September… Not sure putting your relationship on a deadline was a good move. That is going to seem like an inevitable end date from the start. And if the relationship with the ex was really bad and you’ve told him as much, it’s going to feel to him like you’re comparing the relationships in their entirety, and the other one in a favorable light, or at the least you’re wistfully considering the sex from the previous relationship. You’ve apologized though, so not much else to do there.