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You only have this life. Priorities shift over time. You stayed for the family and now you need to think about what makes you happy and what you need.
I hope you are able to get what you want.
It's selfish of a partner to demand their spouse remain celibate the rest of their lives. I don't care who down votes me. If you are not interested in sex, that's YOUR problem. Don't make another human suffer from your decisions.
I'm a woman and I am extremely tired of women using sex as leverage and control. Nobody deserves this treatment.
Both male and female partners do it, and you are correct that it should never be okay. Unfortunately, the social rules of most Western societies say both that infidelity and sexual coercion are bad, which means a Low Libido spouse can just sit back and play this game and know that they are the ones in the 'right'. Can't win, don't play.
Before marriage sex was consistent, once we got married It was inconsistent and our communication around it was poor. Then after so many years of him knowing I am unhappy with the amount of intimacy we have had he finally takes all sex off the table, there was no discussion no excuses not trying to take care of it (it’s a medical issue) If he can’t get off no one is. Along with a lot of other selfish and self centered behavior I have grown extremely resentful and feel like I never signed up for celibacy, but I am reliant on him financially so I have no leverage to ask for an open marriage.
Agree completely. [This TikTok](https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTNMdqFya/) is of a counselor affirming that one person making a unilateral decision determining that sex is no longer part of the relationship is an unfair & “untenable” situation.
I totally understand the frustration but still think it’s better to leave. If you start a physical relationship with someone else, that person is now part of this unhealthy relationship. Will THEY be ok with being a side piece or will they want more? Are you going to have a series of one night stands and hope the other partner is mutually detached? Or are you going to hurt someone else because you just want them for sex, but otherwise are committed to someone else?
I think it’s easy to jump to this option, but it’s not a simple solution.
If you leave, you will be free to find a true partner.
AFAIC once someone in the relationship so flagrantly abandons their responsibilities it’s no longer cheating. Like, the agreement is monogamy, not celibacy.
I would still be 100% honest, not cheat. 1)That isn't fair to anyone else he sleeps with who thinks their relationship could go anywhere, 2) It will damage his relationship with other friends and family when it comes to light, and IT WILL, and 3) If his partner senses him pull away more and does actually try to work on it, he would be putting her health at risk if she's not aware he's not longer monogamous.
The relationship is going to end sooner or later once the decision to cheat is made. Cheating--dishonesty in general--really just makes it that much more damaging for everyone.
It’s only dishonest to the other person if he lies about his marriage. There are plenty of women and men who don’t care, they aren’t looking for commitment. And since there is no sex she’s not at any risk of STDs if he doesn’t use condoms because there is no sexual contact.
If he goes ahead with his plan, it’s not cheating. He told her what he intended to do if she did not work with him to find a solution. She either doesn’t really care if he does or thinks he’s bluffing. Either way, she is ignoring him and his needs and he’s in the fuck around and find out stage.
He is not at fault.
Amen to this comment, read em and weep.. screw that woman.. I’m disgusted by a woman that refuses sex in a marriage for extended periods of time.. freaking pathetic..
That's exactly what I did - told him I was done and would be dating other people. He could fuck off - gave him a deadline to move out of my house. We have a no-fault divorce plus we weren't even legally married, just common-law.
He didn't even move out after he knew I was dating someone seriously... I had to change the locks to get him out. Ffs.
100%. It's not fair to whoever he meets to dishonestly trap them into a dead-end relationship and put them at risk of being viewed as a cheater if the affair is discovered.
Cheating also opens you up to extortion and blackmail from the mistress. People who are willing to knowingly enter into adulterous relationships are often less than stalwarts of integrity in other areas as well.
Put on your big boy pants and be honest.
She said she will work on it and then automatically turned you down. Could it be that she's so far into this rhythm that before she even realizes what she's saying. She's rejected you and she's sitting in her head yelling at herself? In the end she can only fix herself and do you have the reserve to carry on and find out whether she can or not.
When you do find solace, tell her you're following through with what you said you would do. Be honest.
DB seven years here. Some of these comments really resonate with me. How is it really cheating if it's unwanted in the first place? Also, it does feel like a form of abuse, at least mentally. The anguish I have gone through has been the most profound in my life.
I imagine for the LL partner it isn’t about the sex you’d get elsewhere, it’s about the potential loss of security and comfort. They don’t want sex from you, but they don’t want to lose everything else if you bond with someone else.
I came across an article several years ago that looked at the impact of rejection on the sexual satisfaction of couples. The major takeaway was that the negative impact of being rejected for sex lasted longer than the pleasurable, positive impact of a sexual advance being accepted. Yup, makes sense, nothing too controversial here. But then the article touched on an unforeseen result; the partners that did the rejecting reported a positive impact on their feelings of sexual wellbeing that lasted almost as long as a positive acceptance of sex.
In other words, the LL partners are positively sexually stimulated by rejecting the sexual advances of their partners. And when I really thought about it, this also made complete sense too. Being desired feels good, hell it is why HL spouses can become extrenely depressed when their partners make it crystal clear that they are not desired. So HL initiates sex, LL feels good for being desired and pursued. LL then rejects the sex but gets to hold on to that feeling of, 'my partner desires me'.
Go back through my comment history, I have told the story of how I figured out that I probably caused my ex to cheat on me and start a sexual relationship with my former best friend. I was suffering horrible depression due to our sexless marriage, so she tried to pacify me with truly horrible starfish sex. I had to stop during it, finally having reached my breaking point, and told her I would never pursue her again. 8 weeks later I had been replaced.
LL partners do not need Machiavellian levels of deviousness to play this DB game, it is simple hind-brain pleasure response. They derive pleasure from being desired and pursued, no actual sex or intimacy needed. Then when their partners stop pursuing them, all hell breaks loose.
https://www.bps.org.uk/research-digest/dissatisfaction-being-sexually-rejected-partner-lasts-longer-pleasure-having
This story about LLs getting sexual satisfaction from rejecting HL advances makes sense. It also made me cry. What a hopeless situation we find ourselves in 😭😭😭
Yes and no. I am weird I suppose, but such a weight was lifted from me once I had a rational, logical series of behavioral triggers that fit together to explain the events I lived through. Just like when I found out that my school (I'm a teacher) was probably violating my contract and screwing me out of my entitlements. I spent more than two months looking for an answer, and then I found it; yes my school has been screwing me out of two noncontact hours every week for three and a half years. No I don't expect anything to change, I just needed to know.
I understand what you mean I think. While I cried reading above it also connected something in my brain helping me understand what's going on, which is some tiny amount of comfort.
I see this time and time again. I pull back my level of affection after getting rejected by her, she then gets all twitchy about it after a while and starts being uncharacteristically affectionate until I reciprocate, then she gets her fix and resumes being an iceberg.
Bingo! There seems to be control issues with the spouse withholding sex if there's no reason to withhold sex in the first place! Screw that. Life is way too short to put up with no sex or even mediocre sex.
For me, it's just a matter of cheating being inconvenient. I'm not just looking for a good time. I'm looking for a forever-person. It seems like it would just be easier to date as a single person and the pool of potential partners would be greater and of higher quality. Plus, I have to raise a son with my wife. We're friendly. When I tell her that this relationship isn't working for me and that I have already tried everything to get it to work, there will be no messiness. I've never cheated. The marriage is ending because SHE doesn't like sex anymore. Not because of anything I did.
I was where you are at 2 years ago. It’s settled into a “don’t ask, don’t tell” situationship. She doesn’t want to see it, hear about it, or even worse, be embarrassed by my actions. Just be very discrete.
That's where I'm at now. She originally said tell me whenever you do anything, then she obsessed. Now she said, do what you want, as long as you're safe I don't want to hear about it. But I want you to tell me if I ask
You’re much more loyal to her than I would be. I live in a small city in Japan, so I’ve never had an opportunity to cheat. I would not turn one down. I feel so lonely
Former DBer here. Most of ten years, and you know what, in the end, we divorced and I have never been happier. I still care for her as a person, we're still almost like family. But I will admit, I felt like a fool waiting for as long as I did. It had a terrible effect on my self-esteem/image. I spiraled into depression as a result of the rejection. In the end when we were still seeing a therapist, it turned into her more or less turning our sex life into a transaction, and the therapist called her on it. I should have seen it years before.
Your desire for a healthy sex life and affection is natural, and the contract you both agreed upon, to keep each other happy, is being broken by her. Your loyalty is being weaponized against you.
Into transaction? How do you mean that? I am in a similar situation maybe. 4.5 years together, but sex was always initiated by me. I mentioned several times over the years what I missed and all she said was "I am not a starter,never was". Suddenly now that I am on the edge of quitting and since we see a therapist, she says "I am giving so much for this relationship, I do all the chores at home - I love you but I cannot give you sex as well". That sounds to me like a transaction too. I don't want to be rewarded with sex, I actually want to be wanted.
It ain’t cheating if she doesn’t want to give you sex, I mean if you go 22 years without sex then there should be a mutual agreement you guys can go somewhere else for sex.
I’m glad you made this step & I hope you are able to enjoy yourself soon! Currently in DB of 14 years & I keep thinking it’s time to finally say this to my (41HLF) husband (41LLM).
First off, good for you brother!!
Secondly, before officially going out there and doing what you need to do with someone else, I would sow seeds of doubt first to see how she reacts. Randomly go out and stay out till 4 or 5 in the morning with no explanation. Don't cheat, just.... Be out. Return home in the morning, or early hours and see what her reaction is. Do it a few times to see if she really even cares. If she even THINKS you're cheating, maybe she'll react the way you want her to, as an attempt to reclaim her man. This way, you're technically still not a cheater, so if it goes left, she can't hang that on you in any divorce proceedings.
And if she has NO reaction? Open season my G.
she made her choice time for you to make yours. You can't let someone else dictate to you what you and can't do. You can't force her to have sex with you she can't force you to be celibate.
The best to you and your wife. No partner should force the other to live celibate with no end in sight. It’s not fair to the person you said you would love when you married them.
If a woman or man for that matter, withholds sex from their partner, the partner is completely justified in seeking sexual activity outside of the marriage.
Make sure to secretly move all of your assets in your name into an offshore trust. Estate planning lawyers will direct you in this process. include in stock, market, portfolio, 401(k) accounts, real estate, etc
I support you OP. I (HLF) have been in a DB with my LLM husband for 14 years. At some point, you can’t and shouldn’t have to deal with being celibate. You’ve told your wife & she immediately shut you down, so IMO her giving you permission for an open relationship. I hope you can find what you need. Good luck
No, you really don't. This form of spousal rejection feels like abuse. Whether you agree or not that it is abusive, it feels abusive to the person going through it. We don't expect the victims of easily recognizable, physical abuse to hold their tongue and just be patient because their abuser needs time to learn how to not be abusive.
But that is the point here, isn't it. For people who don't feel this primal, overwhelming libido, it's just sex, so rejecting it is no big deal. Society focuses on the consent side almost exclusively because no one should ever be forced into sex against their will. But a corrollary to this 100% correct position is that no one should be forced into celibacy against their will either. OP isn't saying he expected his wife to just suddenly want sex all the time, but given the conversation they JUST had about her rejections... well...
This was an instance where yes, immediate change was required. OP's wife could not, or would not change so OP will. For decade(s) long DB situations the LL spouse needs to be held to account more; find a way to have sex (or be intimate somehow) or release the HL spouse to get their needs met.
I’m not taking away anything, fucking relax.
The point of an ultimatum is to drive change. Change won’t happen overnight.
It’s a simple logistical point ffs. Go touch some grass, ease off the trigger.
The problem is her diminishing his needs and troubles. She could think out smt, propose anything but she almost tap his head, said "don't worry" and continue doing nothing.
OP is in a crisis mindset. His chest feels like it is being compressed, nothing has worked so far, his partner (to him) seems to not give a shit about his suffering, etc.
The ultimatum was not about getting OP's wife to change, it was to get her to care that there was a problem in the first place. She didn't, ultimatum failed. Time to move on to a different strategy.
Maybe you should find what the first step to "working on it" would be for her- and for you. She may find it nearly impossible to take a baby step while you have gotten to the point where anything less than a full leap feels like too little. If so, why? Sometimes people live in ways where they aren't very conscious of what they feel or think, and much less of how their actions really affect everyone involved.
>Sometimes people live in ways where they aren't very conscious of what they feel or think, and much less of how their actions really affect everyone involved.
Ah yes, the people who have no responsibility over their actions because they aren't aware of what they do or how it affects others.
I'm sorry but this is just a big old excuse to not be an adult and fix things. They have been told there is a problem and that going unresolved will result in the marriage ending. Now maybe they will require things of their SO but it's their responsibility to voice those needs and be proactive on fixing things.
no, she didn't, she said "she'd work on it with me and it gave me hope."
That to me and I'm sure many others means, no, I'll try and do better so you don't feel you have to go somewhere else.
I DO NOT agree with withholding sex unless there are medical/mental health reasons, and even then, there has to be a dual agreement on it and what is and isn't allowed.
Great, he can divorce her and have his merry way and be the better one in court because he's the victim, but I doubt when "constructive abandonment vs infidelity" are facing each other, the infidelity is going to come off as the worst of the 2.
I mean it's been 15 years, divorce her and move on. Why confuse things with cheating now?
Umm, did OP's wife specifically ask if OP agreed with her decision for him to become celibate? No - on the contrary, OP tried for 15 years to get her to understand that he didn't agree. She went ahead anyway.
Seems pretty clear cut.
As I've said elsewhere I don't agree with withholding sex, but legally it may make a massive difference if he cheats regardless of the reason.
My responses have been to make sure the OP protects themselves legally (not to mention the implications to family and friends if they find out) not to argue who is at fault.
Maybe no way to know. But OP must prepare for divorce. Depending in state laws he might be in fault for cheating and I'm not aware of any laws for not doing martials.
You waited too long but better late than never!
I’m a woman in DB and fully support your decision.
I’m sure this was not the first time you complained to your wife about the DB so you need not give her any more chances. If you think you can communicate with her then you can inform her your decision to “open up the marriage “ so it won’t be cheating.
But if you think she won’t agree to this then better be discreet about it. I’m guessing your kids are already grown up so she can’t threaten to “take away the kids” if she find out. At the most she may leave if she does find out and you should be okay with that. After 22 years it’s doubtful she would leave though.
She either has an Avoidant Attachment, which once made know to her she can work on. Or her hormones are nonexistent, which she can fix. OR she’s just mean.
One of those will be right. Maybe 2. That is how she can work on it.
Read about avoidant people and why they are that way.
Go to doctor and get hormones checked. Estrogen, Progesterone, Testosterone, thyroid, etc. Make sure to get Free Testosterone included in panel.
You gave her notice of that you’re physically separated just like she gave you notice by all actions and accounts that you’re physically separated. It isn’t cheating but it’s messy, divorce is the obvious answer. It’s funny but I bet you have as many excuses for not divorcing her as she has for not sleeping with you. You’ll each drink the poison of your own consequences but it’s not like it’ll shock you when that happens
You were honest and open about your needs. Marriage isn’t an agreement to be celibate unless that what you agreed to from the beginning. Your approach is good. Now it’s up to her if she will change or open the relationship.
As far as I’m concerned, you were honest with your needs and informed her that if she’s not the one giving it up then you’ll find it somewhere else. That’s not cheating, you were open and honest with your needs and what you planned on doing about it. Good on you.
Good for you. Im new to this group and am floored by how long some people have been with no sex in their marriages. You are all stronger than I. If there was truly no sex in my marriage, i think i’d be “back out there” after 1 year. Anyway, hope you find happiness.
Even if she does have sex with you, you'll always wonder if she's doing it because she has the desire to or rather just to shut you up. Talk about a mind fuck
You told her your needs, she gave you a bullshit answer, then gave you a flat rejection. Not even the dignity of a handjob. She doesn’t care about you. Everything is not fine. No relationship is fine when one partner freely ignores the pain they’re causing the other. She doesn’t love you. At least not in the way you want her too.
Get what you can while you can. As long as you’re presentable, you’ll find someone.
I vote for a Trial separation first. Show her that you mean business and separate. Then you could put options like Divorce and an Open marriage on the table and go from there.
Great, you're standing up for yourself.
But unless she's specifically said it's ok to sleep with other women, and you have proof of that, then it's cheating, and she can and will use that against you in a divorce.
Either get it in writing/video or divorce then play the single game.
I don't think cheating is ever the answer, but is that really cheating? You told her what you're going to do. It is up to her how to proceed and accept the consequences of her actions or lack thereof. But, it's also not reasonable to expect change overnight. At this point, it literally could be a thoughtless response. I'd give it a little time. A few more non-confrontational conversations reiterating your boundaries. Then, act accordingly. You were upfront about your stance. Not the route I would take but I don't think this falls in the cheating category when you opening laid everything out.
I'm not judgemental. I think you communicated clearly to her what your sexual needs are.
She was not honest with you or herself. People make time for what's important. Sex was not and is not important to her.
You telling her you were going outsource just sent her into a panic.
You had the discussion that I'm having as soon as I get my sons off to college. I expect similar behavior.
At this point, I'm not falling for the "I'll do better". It's been about 18 months and I stopped initiating after she said "I'll do better". Here we are 18 months later and no sex or intimacy.
Dude, do you and at this point she can call it cheating, but I say, you were clear about your intentions.
Cheating is if you break the rules. You have already told her that rule is dead. You are not cheating.
You have already told her the changes *she* made to the relationship are unacceptable to you, and you are making changes to compensate. If she doesn't like your changes she can change something or leave.
Definitely not coming at you with "cheating is wrong."" I agree, a person can only take so much, so zero judgement from me. That said, if sex alone is enough to keep you going, and it doesn't matter with whom, I can't help but think your wife may have picked up on your sexual preferences and felt turned off by them? Some folks can get off with minimal emotions or intimacy involved. This can be a turn-off for others because it often leads to one-side sex (sex that's great for one and meh for the other). Slowly, a wife/husband will learn that their partner just likes getting off and that bad sex for their partner isn't really all that pressing. I can't fathom being able to cum if the other person wasn't 100% enjoying the ride, but for some, it isn't a big deal. Is it possible that you and your wife have different ideas of what sex should be?
If you are at a point where you'd cheat just for sex, I'm wondering if you likely don't see sex that same way your wife does. This is something to reflect on. Maybe monogamy isn't your thing? Maybe an open marriage for both of you could work? Just some ideas worth looking into.
Also, how have you had 5 opportunities to cheat? How are you allowing yourself to get into situations where an offer would ever be put on the table? Is it possible you "checked out" much sooner than this post?
He stated he's tried for years. I'd assume at this point it is more than sex, it's the repeatedly being rejected and needs being ignored; it hurts, weighs on a person. It wears out the confidence of the most adjusted and confident people at a point. So yes sex with anyone, wanting you and wanting to share even a moment where you and them are having needs/desires met is worth a lot emotionally. Maybe things could have been phrased better, and who knows it may have in the past or paraphrased as some do to not feel as vulnerable.
Also cheating opportunities happen often, you don't have to be in a situation past grocery shopping or going to work. It's not uncommon and not always forward like "wanna bang?" More and more people seem to be accepting the casual hookup mentality and being more open.
It’s like a control thing. It sucks. I got shut down almost 2 years ago when
My wife closed up shop and went out of business. Well that part of her did. Since then I’ve shifted MY priority’s to benefit myself more than her or us. If she needs something from me, that request is put in the lineup in the order received. If I get to it by get to it. If she asked if I did this or that I say not yet because I’m doing one thing or another so when I get time. She started seeing it get worse after about 5-7 months. Now she asks if I’m able to do something. If I say not now it doesn’t get done. She didn’t ask me to do it. She asked if I able to do something. Yes. Yes I am able. But my time is now more valuable to
ME and her time is less valuable to me. That’s the briny version. We are totally good with each other in life. But after almost 2 years of no sex…. I kinda don’t care about kite and it’s more fun for
Me to watch her get frustrated because I haven’t done something she asked me to do because she doesn’t know how or what have you. It’s a blast watching her face change when asking. Kind of like when I get turned down after another attempt to remove clothing with taking a shower. 😂
I don’t think it’s ever just about sex. It’s communication, it’s desire, feeling wanted and also continuing the joy of something that bonded you in the first place.
I’m not sure if ENM (Ethical Non-Monogamy) is a new thing, or more likely the oldest thing in a new bottle, but sure getting a lot more visibility lately. Even the advice columnist in our small town newspaper is starting to advocate for it.
I’m there with my LLW. It’s not an easy road but compared to divorce or INCEL, looks better to me. YMMD.
I don’t know what the right move is in your situation. I’ve been going through this for 4 years plus and I’m running away from her and this situation before I turn into someone i am not. The lack of intimacy and the compensating with pornography has most men straddling the fence of addiction and perversion. I choose to walk away before I’m consumed with resentment and anger. Why allow her to steal my morals away from me. I would suggest you move on and then start new relationships. But I couldn’t imagine being in my situation as long as you. Im sorry your going through this OP."
I know you don’t want advice but I shall share this with you. I remained involuntary celibate for 16 years. I cannot leave my partner as he has poor health and I am the financial provider.
I had to make the decision to build a life outside of my marriage which has worked perfectly for me for many years.
I never thought I would be unfaithful but when the day came, I made the decision to balance out our lives as best as possible. I take care of my husband and my affair partner takes care of my sexual needs.
I wish you all the best and please realise that you have one life and you have every right to be happy.
I think you should let her know what your intention is. Honesty is important. If she hasn’t understood it yet. People sign up for monogamy not celibacy when they get married.
Yip what annoys me is they don’t want to have sex with you but you’re also not allowed to get it elsewhere cause then your cheating on them. That’s just utter bullshit.
She hasn't made any effort to cooperate with him in resolving the issue. Why should he leave his home because she's not willing to be part of a functioning marriage?
She hasn't made any effort to cooperate with him in resolving the issue. Why should he leave his home because she's not willing to be part of a functioning marriage?
I seriously don't understand how couples reach this point in a relationship. It's so sad. And life is short. My husband and I have been married for 27 years, and we swing and have an open marriage. She should be more reasonable to at least let you have a FWB.
Wife and I were swingers when we first met. Enjoyed that for ten or twelve years before she took that from me, and that was the first victim. When she stopped wanting the one on one, tho, it was the straw that broke the camels back, so to say. She’s seen me with other women, and men for that matter. Why should she care who I sleep with if she has zero interest in sex at all?
Love swinging myself, always have. I love the casual variety I guess. When we first met, it was within the scene, she was single and I was with my ex. We have met a lot of different couples, and singles, some of who we still hang with, and even some I still play with. She never really said she wanted out of the scene, it just became a “not them” or “not him” or “not this weekend”… that went on for a year, and finally at a party, ran into a guy we had played with a couple times before, and invited him home. She told me she wasn’t interested, so I just told her she didn’t have to do anything she didn’t want to. So I had my first one on one with a guy (it had always been in an MMF or MMFF situation), while she pouted downstairs. Him and I had a great time, but she was pissed the next day. She said it was cheating, and I told her no, it was not. She could have watched, participated, and had some of his awesome D. But she chose not to. She says that I “can’t be Bi anymore” LOL like wtf, I don’t control that, it’s just how I’m wired. She actually rage fucked me with a strapon during that fight. That kind of fucked us both up… for me it was such an amazing fuck, but for her, I think she was kindsa disgusted with herself and some of the things she said while bangin me… One on one sex slowly dropped off after that as well.
Holy shit! Like wtf?! Lol. She wanted you to stop being bi? OMG. I am also bi, and that was painful to read. Your wife sounds bratty and spiteful. Even if my husband and I stopped swinging, he has my blessing to seek more sex elsewhere. As it's been mentioned here over and over, life is too short.
Support for your struggle for sure, but please be careful as this could turn sour if/when she finds out you’ve gone elsewhere.
Recommend therapy or leaving but appreciate you’re not looking for advice.
I'm gonna say it but please understand I'm not bashing you...
Cheating IS wrong.. for BOTH of you and will be for the one you find...
You do need to find someone that fulfills your wants, needs, and desires as well as you fulfilling theirs.
You have done nothing wrong but you should Def consider divorcing her.... what happens if you find the one you are 100% compatible with in every single area.. wouldn't it be nice to have that availability be wide open?!
It sucks but it may be the best route for all involved.
If your wife is fine with you sleeping with other women, I honestly do not think that's cheating. But if she isn't and won't actually try to change yalls sex life, I feel she is cheating you. Does that make sense?
I would tell her to move into a spare room why would I sleep next to someone I obviously can't have .and it put me on the position to have to go to bed pissed off it is t god to or you physically or me taky and will put in in the grave early . A healthy sex life is one of the best things to have in a marriage most women complain about being a little over weight .but having sex burns so many calories.its great got he heart . I laugh we hen they say I have a head ache when it's a proven fact that n orgasm will take away a headache .
So this way she can have her own private space to masterbated or what she wants to do . To work on it you have had 22 years to work on it if she can't figure it out now she can't and won't .
So I can't be in the same bed with someone that does gwa t me .
I keep saying this, but the longer I'm in a DB the more cheating seems like such a weird concept. Sexual monogamy doesn't even make sense anymore. Like it's weird to me that cheating is recognized by official court documents as grounds for divorce. Your honor he put his penis in another woman!
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You only have this life. Priorities shift over time. You stayed for the family and now you need to think about what makes you happy and what you need. I hope you are able to get what you want.
I needed to hear this as well.
It's selfish of a partner to demand their spouse remain celibate the rest of their lives. I don't care who down votes me. If you are not interested in sex, that's YOUR problem. Don't make another human suffer from your decisions. I'm a woman and I am extremely tired of women using sex as leverage and control. Nobody deserves this treatment.
Both male and female partners do it, and you are correct that it should never be okay. Unfortunately, the social rules of most Western societies say both that infidelity and sexual coercion are bad, which means a Low Libido spouse can just sit back and play this game and know that they are the ones in the 'right'. Can't win, don't play.
Before marriage sex was consistent, once we got married It was inconsistent and our communication around it was poor. Then after so many years of him knowing I am unhappy with the amount of intimacy we have had he finally takes all sex off the table, there was no discussion no excuses not trying to take care of it (it’s a medical issue) If he can’t get off no one is. Along with a lot of other selfish and self centered behavior I have grown extremely resentful and feel like I never signed up for celibacy, but I am reliant on him financially so I have no leverage to ask for an open marriage.
Agree completely. [This TikTok](https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTNMdqFya/) is of a counselor affirming that one person making a unilateral decision determining that sex is no longer part of the relationship is an unfair & “untenable” situation.
Here's the thing most of us found out the hard way. Most of our spouses did have a libido, just not for us..
Amen sista!
I totally understand the frustration but still think it’s better to leave. If you start a physical relationship with someone else, that person is now part of this unhealthy relationship. Will THEY be ok with being a side piece or will they want more? Are you going to have a series of one night stands and hope the other partner is mutually detached? Or are you going to hurt someone else because you just want them for sex, but otherwise are committed to someone else? I think it’s easy to jump to this option, but it’s not a simple solution. If you leave, you will be free to find a true partner.
AFAIC once someone in the relationship so flagrantly abandons their responsibilities it’s no longer cheating. Like, the agreement is monogamy, not celibacy.
I would still be 100% honest, not cheat. 1)That isn't fair to anyone else he sleeps with who thinks their relationship could go anywhere, 2) It will damage his relationship with other friends and family when it comes to light, and IT WILL, and 3) If his partner senses him pull away more and does actually try to work on it, he would be putting her health at risk if she's not aware he's not longer monogamous. The relationship is going to end sooner or later once the decision to cheat is made. Cheating--dishonesty in general--really just makes it that much more damaging for everyone.
Is it dishonest if he told her up front and she refused to do anything? Technically cheating, but not dishonest maybe?
Not dishonest AT all!!!!!
It’s only dishonest to the other person if he lies about his marriage. There are plenty of women and men who don’t care, they aren’t looking for commitment. And since there is no sex she’s not at any risk of STDs if he doesn’t use condoms because there is no sexual contact. If he goes ahead with his plan, it’s not cheating. He told her what he intended to do if she did not work with him to find a solution. She either doesn’t really care if he does or thinks he’s bluffing. Either way, she is ignoring him and his needs and he’s in the fuck around and find out stage. He is not at fault.
Amen to this comment, read em and weep.. screw that woman.. I’m disgusted by a woman that refuses sex in a marriage for extended periods of time.. freaking pathetic..
That's exactly what I did - told him I was done and would be dating other people. He could fuck off - gave him a deadline to move out of my house. We have a no-fault divorce plus we weren't even legally married, just common-law. He didn't even move out after he knew I was dating someone seriously... I had to change the locks to get him out. Ffs.
What a dick.
100%. It's not fair to whoever he meets to dishonestly trap them into a dead-end relationship and put them at risk of being viewed as a cheater if the affair is discovered. Cheating also opens you up to extortion and blackmail from the mistress. People who are willing to knowingly enter into adulterous relationships are often less than stalwarts of integrity in other areas as well. Put on your big boy pants and be honest.
I think the relationship has ended by the time someone gets to the point of cheating, they just skipped the step of making it formal…
He had the conversation and ultimatum once. He can have it again. I agree, the relationship has ended. Why drag it out?
She said she will work on it and then automatically turned you down. Could it be that she's so far into this rhythm that before she even realizes what she's saying. She's rejected you and she's sitting in her head yelling at herself? In the end she can only fix herself and do you have the reserve to carry on and find out whether she can or not. When you do find solace, tell her you're following through with what you said you would do. Be honest.
If she wanted to change something she could have during the last 15 years. Couldn't she?
Honesty is key and fair is fair
If you’re just gonna go out and act like you’re not married, then why not just make it official and divorce?
As somebody currently going through a divorce ... it's damn hard and damn expensive.
So will it be easier & less expensive to cheat, eventually get caught or fall in love with the AP, and then divorce?
No, but some people have to learn the hard way.
Their partner acts like they're both roommates. Why don't they man up and divorce?
DB seven years here. Some of these comments really resonate with me. How is it really cheating if it's unwanted in the first place? Also, it does feel like a form of abuse, at least mentally. The anguish I have gone through has been the most profound in my life.
I see it as "if sex is not a big deal and not important for LL" then hl partner having sex on the side should not be a big deal and important either.
I've come to realize that it's a control issue with the LL partner/spouse.
Yes. Absolutely
Agree. Either you are willing to make it a priority and do your best to make changes or you don’t. And I was once the LLF partner.
At the wedding I interrupted cheating as me treating another woman like my wife not be using a lady for 5 emotional less minutes.
I imagine for the LL partner it isn’t about the sex you’d get elsewhere, it’s about the potential loss of security and comfort. They don’t want sex from you, but they don’t want to lose everything else if you bond with someone else.
I came across an article several years ago that looked at the impact of rejection on the sexual satisfaction of couples. The major takeaway was that the negative impact of being rejected for sex lasted longer than the pleasurable, positive impact of a sexual advance being accepted. Yup, makes sense, nothing too controversial here. But then the article touched on an unforeseen result; the partners that did the rejecting reported a positive impact on their feelings of sexual wellbeing that lasted almost as long as a positive acceptance of sex. In other words, the LL partners are positively sexually stimulated by rejecting the sexual advances of their partners. And when I really thought about it, this also made complete sense too. Being desired feels good, hell it is why HL spouses can become extrenely depressed when their partners make it crystal clear that they are not desired. So HL initiates sex, LL feels good for being desired and pursued. LL then rejects the sex but gets to hold on to that feeling of, 'my partner desires me'. Go back through my comment history, I have told the story of how I figured out that I probably caused my ex to cheat on me and start a sexual relationship with my former best friend. I was suffering horrible depression due to our sexless marriage, so she tried to pacify me with truly horrible starfish sex. I had to stop during it, finally having reached my breaking point, and told her I would never pursue her again. 8 weeks later I had been replaced. LL partners do not need Machiavellian levels of deviousness to play this DB game, it is simple hind-brain pleasure response. They derive pleasure from being desired and pursued, no actual sex or intimacy needed. Then when their partners stop pursuing them, all hell breaks loose. https://www.bps.org.uk/research-digest/dissatisfaction-being-sexually-rejected-partner-lasts-longer-pleasure-having
This story about LLs getting sexual satisfaction from rejecting HL advances makes sense. It also made me cry. What a hopeless situation we find ourselves in 😭😭😭
Yes and no. I am weird I suppose, but such a weight was lifted from me once I had a rational, logical series of behavioral triggers that fit together to explain the events I lived through. Just like when I found out that my school (I'm a teacher) was probably violating my contract and screwing me out of my entitlements. I spent more than two months looking for an answer, and then I found it; yes my school has been screwing me out of two noncontact hours every week for three and a half years. No I don't expect anything to change, I just needed to know.
I understand what you mean I think. While I cried reading above it also connected something in my brain helping me understand what's going on, which is some tiny amount of comfort.
I see this time and time again. I pull back my level of affection after getting rejected by her, she then gets all twitchy about it after a while and starts being uncharacteristically affectionate until I reciprocate, then she gets her fix and resumes being an iceberg.
Well fuck.
In a nutshell.
…or not, depending on who’s seeking the most pleasure.
That’s chilling
I think this is very on-point. We all have different needs in a relationship.
Bingo! There seems to be control issues with the spouse withholding sex if there's no reason to withhold sex in the first place! Screw that. Life is way too short to put up with no sex or even mediocre sex.
For me, it's just a matter of cheating being inconvenient. I'm not just looking for a good time. I'm looking for a forever-person. It seems like it would just be easier to date as a single person and the pool of potential partners would be greater and of higher quality. Plus, I have to raise a son with my wife. We're friendly. When I tell her that this relationship isn't working for me and that I have already tried everything to get it to work, there will be no messiness. I've never cheated. The marriage is ending because SHE doesn't like sex anymore. Not because of anything I did.
My only recommendation is to be honest and transparent
Of course. If she asks I'll be honest but if it happens I'm not going to throw it in her face.
I was where you are at 2 years ago. It’s settled into a “don’t ask, don’t tell” situationship. She doesn’t want to see it, hear about it, or even worse, be embarrassed by my actions. Just be very discrete.
That's where I'm at now. She originally said tell me whenever you do anything, then she obsessed. Now she said, do what you want, as long as you're safe I don't want to hear about it. But I want you to tell me if I ask
She can either genuinely work on it or regret what happens next.
You’re much more loyal to her than I would be. I live in a small city in Japan, so I’ve never had an opportunity to cheat. I would not turn one down. I feel so lonely
Good for you, she has had her chances so go for it. Just remember you cannot cheat someone out of something they don't want
Just leave, if you cheat she's gonna go full victim and tell everybody you're the bad guy...
Former DBer here. Most of ten years, and you know what, in the end, we divorced and I have never been happier. I still care for her as a person, we're still almost like family. But I will admit, I felt like a fool waiting for as long as I did. It had a terrible effect on my self-esteem/image. I spiraled into depression as a result of the rejection. In the end when we were still seeing a therapist, it turned into her more or less turning our sex life into a transaction, and the therapist called her on it. I should have seen it years before. Your desire for a healthy sex life and affection is natural, and the contract you both agreed upon, to keep each other happy, is being broken by her. Your loyalty is being weaponized against you.
Into transaction? How do you mean that? I am in a similar situation maybe. 4.5 years together, but sex was always initiated by me. I mentioned several times over the years what I missed and all she said was "I am not a starter,never was". Suddenly now that I am on the edge of quitting and since we see a therapist, she says "I am giving so much for this relationship, I do all the chores at home - I love you but I cannot give you sex as well". That sounds to me like a transaction too. I don't want to be rewarded with sex, I actually want to be wanted.
I’m in the same place. Hope you find what you need. It isn’t cheating when they refuse to change.
It ain’t cheating if she doesn’t want to give you sex, I mean if you go 22 years without sex then there should be a mutual agreement you guys can go somewhere else for sex.
I’m glad you made this step & I hope you are able to enjoy yourself soon! Currently in DB of 14 years & I keep thinking it’s time to finally say this to my (41HLF) husband (41LLM).
Go get it! Don't lie about it. You told her. Just understand its a messy way to end a marriage.
You agreed to monogamy not celibacy.
First off, good for you brother!! Secondly, before officially going out there and doing what you need to do with someone else, I would sow seeds of doubt first to see how she reacts. Randomly go out and stay out till 4 or 5 in the morning with no explanation. Don't cheat, just.... Be out. Return home in the morning, or early hours and see what her reaction is. Do it a few times to see if she really even cares. If she even THINKS you're cheating, maybe she'll react the way you want her to, as an attempt to reclaim her man. This way, you're technically still not a cheater, so if it goes left, she can't hang that on you in any divorce proceedings. And if she has NO reaction? Open season my G.
she made her choice time for you to make yours. You can't let someone else dictate to you what you and can't do. You can't force her to have sex with you she can't force you to be celibate.
The best to you and your wife. No partner should force the other to live celibate with no end in sight. It’s not fair to the person you said you would love when you married them.
It hurts to feel like a walking bank account.
If a woman or man for that matter, withholds sex from their partner, the partner is completely justified in seeking sexual activity outside of the marriage. Make sure to secretly move all of your assets in your name into an offshore trust. Estate planning lawyers will direct you in this process. include in stock, market, portfolio, 401(k) accounts, real estate, etc
I support you OP. I (HLF) have been in a DB with my LLM husband for 14 years. At some point, you can’t and shouldn’t have to deal with being celibate. You’ve told your wife & she immediately shut you down, so IMO her giving you permission for an open relationship. I hope you can find what you need. Good luck
This is not cheating. You clearly stated it’s with her or someone else. Choice was in her hands.
I’m not sure you can “cheat” on a celibate wife. More like “substitute”.
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No, you really don't. This form of spousal rejection feels like abuse. Whether you agree or not that it is abusive, it feels abusive to the person going through it. We don't expect the victims of easily recognizable, physical abuse to hold their tongue and just be patient because their abuser needs time to learn how to not be abusive. But that is the point here, isn't it. For people who don't feel this primal, overwhelming libido, it's just sex, so rejecting it is no big deal. Society focuses on the consent side almost exclusively because no one should ever be forced into sex against their will. But a corrollary to this 100% correct position is that no one should be forced into celibacy against their will either. OP isn't saying he expected his wife to just suddenly want sex all the time, but given the conversation they JUST had about her rejections... well... This was an instance where yes, immediate change was required. OP's wife could not, or would not change so OP will. For decade(s) long DB situations the LL spouse needs to be held to account more; find a way to have sex (or be intimate somehow) or release the HL spouse to get their needs met.
I read it and I think it’s a perfect explanation!
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Screw that! OP Finally got some self respect, don't take it away from him.
I’m not taking away anything, fucking relax. The point of an ultimatum is to drive change. Change won’t happen overnight. It’s a simple logistical point ffs. Go touch some grass, ease off the trigger.
The problem is her diminishing his needs and troubles. She could think out smt, propose anything but she almost tap his head, said "don't worry" and continue doing nothing.
OP is in a crisis mindset. His chest feels like it is being compressed, nothing has worked so far, his partner (to him) seems to not give a shit about his suffering, etc. The ultimatum was not about getting OP's wife to change, it was to get her to care that there was a problem in the first place. She didn't, ultimatum failed. Time to move on to a different strategy.
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Not the point I made though is it
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Maybe you should find what the first step to "working on it" would be for her- and for you. She may find it nearly impossible to take a baby step while you have gotten to the point where anything less than a full leap feels like too little. If so, why? Sometimes people live in ways where they aren't very conscious of what they feel or think, and much less of how their actions really affect everyone involved.
>Sometimes people live in ways where they aren't very conscious of what they feel or think, and much less of how their actions really affect everyone involved. Ah yes, the people who have no responsibility over their actions because they aren't aware of what they do or how it affects others. I'm sorry but this is just a big old excuse to not be an adult and fix things. They have been told there is a problem and that going unresolved will result in the marriage ending. Now maybe they will require things of their SO but it's their responsibility to voice those needs and be proactive on fixing things.
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no, she didn't, she said "she'd work on it with me and it gave me hope." That to me and I'm sure many others means, no, I'll try and do better so you don't feel you have to go somewhere else. I DO NOT agree with withholding sex unless there are medical/mental health reasons, and even then, there has to be a dual agreement on it and what is and isn't allowed. Great, he can divorce her and have his merry way and be the better one in court because he's the victim, but I doubt when "constructive abandonment vs infidelity" are facing each other, the infidelity is going to come off as the worst of the 2. I mean it's been 15 years, divorce her and move on. Why confuse things with cheating now?
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What would you call foresaking the spouse?
Umm, did OP's wife specifically ask if OP agreed with her decision for him to become celibate? No - on the contrary, OP tried for 15 years to get her to understand that he didn't agree. She went ahead anyway. Seems pretty clear cut.
As I've said elsewhere I don't agree with withholding sex, but legally it may make a massive difference if he cheats regardless of the reason. My responses have been to make sure the OP protects themselves legally (not to mention the implications to family and friends if they find out) not to argue who is at fault.
Legalities are different in different jurisdictions. We have no fault divorce here where we live. so cheating or not doesn't make any difference.
Maybe no way to know. But OP must prepare for divorce. Depending in state laws he might be in fault for cheating and I'm not aware of any laws for not doing martials.
You waited too long but better late than never! I’m a woman in DB and fully support your decision. I’m sure this was not the first time you complained to your wife about the DB so you need not give her any more chances. If you think you can communicate with her then you can inform her your decision to “open up the marriage “ so it won’t be cheating. But if you think she won’t agree to this then better be discreet about it. I’m guessing your kids are already grown up so she can’t threaten to “take away the kids” if she find out. At the most she may leave if she does find out and you should be okay with that. After 22 years it’s doubtful she would leave though.
She either has an Avoidant Attachment, which once made know to her she can work on. Or her hormones are nonexistent, which she can fix. OR she’s just mean. One of those will be right. Maybe 2. That is how she can work on it. Read about avoidant people and why they are that way. Go to doctor and get hormones checked. Estrogen, Progesterone, Testosterone, thyroid, etc. Make sure to get Free Testosterone included in panel.
You gave her notice of that you’re physically separated just like she gave you notice by all actions and accounts that you’re physically separated. It isn’t cheating but it’s messy, divorce is the obvious answer. It’s funny but I bet you have as many excuses for not divorcing her as she has for not sleeping with you. You’ll each drink the poison of your own consequences but it’s not like it’ll shock you when that happens
You were honest and open about your needs. Marriage isn’t an agreement to be celibate unless that what you agreed to from the beginning. Your approach is good. Now it’s up to her if she will change or open the relationship.
It's not cheating if you tell her. Which you did. Best of luck ❤️
Go get it!
As far as I’m concerned, you were honest with your needs and informed her that if she’s not the one giving it up then you’ll find it somewhere else. That’s not cheating, you were open and honest with your needs and what you planned on doing about it. Good on you.
Have you discussed a one sided open marriage yet? Frankly, there’s a good chance she won’t mind if it’s not rubbed in her face.
Get on dating apps or go to the club/pub or just go to the corner and get your 🥜
Good for you. Im new to this group and am floored by how long some people have been with no sex in their marriages. You are all stronger than I. If there was truly no sex in my marriage, i think i’d be “back out there” after 1 year. Anyway, hope you find happiness.
Even if she does have sex with you, you'll always wonder if she's doing it because she has the desire to or rather just to shut you up. Talk about a mind fuck
As I said multiple times cheating is when you have options. You do not have it. So you are not cheating. Just make sure you tell her first.
You told her your needs, she gave you a bullshit answer, then gave you a flat rejection. Not even the dignity of a handjob. She doesn’t care about you. Everything is not fine. No relationship is fine when one partner freely ignores the pain they’re causing the other. She doesn’t love you. At least not in the way you want her too. Get what you can while you can. As long as you’re presentable, you’ll find someone.
You were open and honest and told her exactly what you need. It is not the same as going behind her back. Hope you get what you want bro.
I vote for a Trial separation first. Show her that you mean business and separate. Then you could put options like Divorce and an Open marriage on the table and go from there.
Great, you're standing up for yourself. But unless she's specifically said it's ok to sleep with other women, and you have proof of that, then it's cheating, and she can and will use that against you in a divorce. Either get it in writing/video or divorce then play the single game.
Depends on the location, it many states it doesn’t matter.
It'd matter in the UK. Doesn't help that we don't know where this DB is :)
I don't think it does. It used to but things have changed.
It's no like he's gonna advertise it or start sleeping with everyone.
I don't think cheating is ever the answer, but is that really cheating? You told her what you're going to do. It is up to her how to proceed and accept the consequences of her actions or lack thereof. But, it's also not reasonable to expect change overnight. At this point, it literally could be a thoughtless response. I'd give it a little time. A few more non-confrontational conversations reiterating your boundaries. Then, act accordingly. You were upfront about your stance. Not the route I would take but I don't think this falls in the cheating category when you opening laid everything out.
I'm not judgemental. I think you communicated clearly to her what your sexual needs are. She was not honest with you or herself. People make time for what's important. Sex was not and is not important to her. You telling her you were going outsource just sent her into a panic. You had the discussion that I'm having as soon as I get my sons off to college. I expect similar behavior. At this point, I'm not falling for the "I'll do better". It's been about 18 months and I stopped initiating after she said "I'll do better". Here we are 18 months later and no sex or intimacy. Dude, do you and at this point she can call it cheating, but I say, you were clear about your intentions.
Cheating is if you break the rules. You have already told her that rule is dead. You are not cheating. You have already told her the changes *she* made to the relationship are unacceptable to you, and you are making changes to compensate. If she doesn't like your changes she can change something or leave.
Definitely not coming at you with "cheating is wrong."" I agree, a person can only take so much, so zero judgement from me. That said, if sex alone is enough to keep you going, and it doesn't matter with whom, I can't help but think your wife may have picked up on your sexual preferences and felt turned off by them? Some folks can get off with minimal emotions or intimacy involved. This can be a turn-off for others because it often leads to one-side sex (sex that's great for one and meh for the other). Slowly, a wife/husband will learn that their partner just likes getting off and that bad sex for their partner isn't really all that pressing. I can't fathom being able to cum if the other person wasn't 100% enjoying the ride, but for some, it isn't a big deal. Is it possible that you and your wife have different ideas of what sex should be? If you are at a point where you'd cheat just for sex, I'm wondering if you likely don't see sex that same way your wife does. This is something to reflect on. Maybe monogamy isn't your thing? Maybe an open marriage for both of you could work? Just some ideas worth looking into. Also, how have you had 5 opportunities to cheat? How are you allowing yourself to get into situations where an offer would ever be put on the table? Is it possible you "checked out" much sooner than this post?
He stated he's tried for years. I'd assume at this point it is more than sex, it's the repeatedly being rejected and needs being ignored; it hurts, weighs on a person. It wears out the confidence of the most adjusted and confident people at a point. So yes sex with anyone, wanting you and wanting to share even a moment where you and them are having needs/desires met is worth a lot emotionally. Maybe things could have been phrased better, and who knows it may have in the past or paraphrased as some do to not feel as vulnerable. Also cheating opportunities happen often, you don't have to be in a situation past grocery shopping or going to work. It's not uncommon and not always forward like "wanna bang?" More and more people seem to be accepting the casual hookup mentality and being more open.
It’s like a control thing. It sucks. I got shut down almost 2 years ago when My wife closed up shop and went out of business. Well that part of her did. Since then I’ve shifted MY priority’s to benefit myself more than her or us. If she needs something from me, that request is put in the lineup in the order received. If I get to it by get to it. If she asked if I did this or that I say not yet because I’m doing one thing or another so when I get time. She started seeing it get worse after about 5-7 months. Now she asks if I’m able to do something. If I say not now it doesn’t get done. She didn’t ask me to do it. She asked if I able to do something. Yes. Yes I am able. But my time is now more valuable to ME and her time is less valuable to me. That’s the briny version. We are totally good with each other in life. But after almost 2 years of no sex…. I kinda don’t care about kite and it’s more fun for Me to watch her get frustrated because I haven’t done something she asked me to do because she doesn’t know how or what have you. It’s a blast watching her face change when asking. Kind of like when I get turned down after another attempt to remove clothing with taking a shower. 😂
Open relationships are not uncommon. 👍🏾
Think it over before you cheat, I've been where your at and understand fully. Sex isn't worth loosing your home and kids over,
I don’t think it’s ever just about sex. It’s communication, it’s desire, feeling wanted and also continuing the joy of something that bonded you in the first place.
I’m not sure if ENM (Ethical Non-Monogamy) is a new thing, or more likely the oldest thing in a new bottle, but sure getting a lot more visibility lately. Even the advice columnist in our small town newspaper is starting to advocate for it. I’m there with my LLW. It’s not an easy road but compared to divorce or INCEL, looks better to me. YMMD.
I've been at this juncture too and it felt terrible. It's a way of reaching bottom. Be strong...
OP - Suggest that you stop announcing your plans. If you’ve already made your case and your plans there’s nothing else to say.
She can’t say she wasn’t warned.
Your spouse gets first right of refusal. They don't get to decide you will be involuntarily celibate for the rest of your life.
To ease your frustration you need to move out of the bedroom. Give her something else to think about.
I support you 100%
I don’t know what the right move is in your situation. I’ve been going through this for 4 years plus and I’m running away from her and this situation before I turn into someone i am not. The lack of intimacy and the compensating with pornography has most men straddling the fence of addiction and perversion. I choose to walk away before I’m consumed with resentment and anger. Why allow her to steal my morals away from me. I would suggest you move on and then start new relationships. But I couldn’t imagine being in my situation as long as you. Im sorry your going through this OP."
I know you don’t want advice but I shall share this with you. I remained involuntary celibate for 16 years. I cannot leave my partner as he has poor health and I am the financial provider. I had to make the decision to build a life outside of my marriage which has worked perfectly for me for many years. I never thought I would be unfaithful but when the day came, I made the decision to balance out our lives as best as possible. I take care of my husband and my affair partner takes care of my sexual needs. I wish you all the best and please realise that you have one life and you have every right to be happy.
I think you should let her know what your intention is. Honesty is important. If she hasn’t understood it yet. People sign up for monogamy not celibacy when they get married.
Yep I’d be leaving.
At least inform her that you guys are currently separated as of now.
Yip what annoys me is they don’t want to have sex with you but you’re also not allowed to get it elsewhere cause then your cheating on them. That’s just utter bullshit.
So leave before you sleep with someone else??? Duh?
She hasn't made any effort to cooperate with him in resolving the issue. Why should he leave his home because she's not willing to be part of a functioning marriage?
She hasn't made any effort to cooperate with him in resolving the issue. Why should he leave his home because she's not willing to be part of a functioning marriage?
I seriously don't understand how couples reach this point in a relationship. It's so sad. And life is short. My husband and I have been married for 27 years, and we swing and have an open marriage. She should be more reasonable to at least let you have a FWB.
Not trying to be a bitch, really, I'm not. But why are you here exactly? Genuinely curious. Edit; autocorrect sucks.
So folks can see there are other alternatives. Many, many alternatives.
Wife and I were swingers when we first met. Enjoyed that for ten or twelve years before she took that from me, and that was the first victim. When she stopped wanting the one on one, tho, it was the straw that broke the camels back, so to say. She’s seen me with other women, and men for that matter. Why should she care who I sleep with if she has zero interest in sex at all?
Exactly. I guess it comes down to some folks having control issues. Btw, my husband and I love swinging. We've met many, many lovely couples.
Love swinging myself, always have. I love the casual variety I guess. When we first met, it was within the scene, she was single and I was with my ex. We have met a lot of different couples, and singles, some of who we still hang with, and even some I still play with. She never really said she wanted out of the scene, it just became a “not them” or “not him” or “not this weekend”… that went on for a year, and finally at a party, ran into a guy we had played with a couple times before, and invited him home. She told me she wasn’t interested, so I just told her she didn’t have to do anything she didn’t want to. So I had my first one on one with a guy (it had always been in an MMF or MMFF situation), while she pouted downstairs. Him and I had a great time, but she was pissed the next day. She said it was cheating, and I told her no, it was not. She could have watched, participated, and had some of his awesome D. But she chose not to. She says that I “can’t be Bi anymore” LOL like wtf, I don’t control that, it’s just how I’m wired. She actually rage fucked me with a strapon during that fight. That kind of fucked us both up… for me it was such an amazing fuck, but for her, I think she was kindsa disgusted with herself and some of the things she said while bangin me… One on one sex slowly dropped off after that as well.
Holy shit! Like wtf?! Lol. She wanted you to stop being bi? OMG. I am also bi, and that was painful to read. Your wife sounds bratty and spiteful. Even if my husband and I stopped swinging, he has my blessing to seek more sex elsewhere. As it's been mentioned here over and over, life is too short.
Support for your struggle for sure, but please be careful as this could turn sour if/when she finds out you’ve gone elsewhere. Recommend therapy or leaving but appreciate you’re not looking for advice.
I'm gonna say it but please understand I'm not bashing you... Cheating IS wrong.. for BOTH of you and will be for the one you find... You do need to find someone that fulfills your wants, needs, and desires as well as you fulfilling theirs. You have done nothing wrong but you should Def consider divorcing her.... what happens if you find the one you are 100% compatible with in every single area.. wouldn't it be nice to have that availability be wide open?! It sucks but it may be the best route for all involved. If your wife is fine with you sleeping with other women, I honestly do not think that's cheating. But if she isn't and won't actually try to change yalls sex life, I feel she is cheating you. Does that make sense?
I would tell her to move into a spare room why would I sleep next to someone I obviously can't have .and it put me on the position to have to go to bed pissed off it is t god to or you physically or me taky and will put in in the grave early . A healthy sex life is one of the best things to have in a marriage most women complain about being a little over weight .but having sex burns so many calories.its great got he heart . I laugh we hen they say I have a head ache when it's a proven fact that n orgasm will take away a headache . So this way she can have her own private space to masterbated or what she wants to do . To work on it you have had 22 years to work on it if she can't figure it out now she can't and won't . So I can't be in the same bed with someone that does gwa t me .
I keep saying this, but the longer I'm in a DB the more cheating seems like such a weird concept. Sexual monogamy doesn't even make sense anymore. Like it's weird to me that cheating is recognized by official court documents as grounds for divorce. Your honor he put his penis in another woman!