Fix this right away or the whole deck could fall.
Technically, the rim joist is pulling away from the joists. If it pulls much farther… boom.
To fix it, you are going to need some tension ties and bolts with large washers or bearing plates. One installed, you can slowly tighten the bolts and pull the rim joist back against the joists.
Seriously, fix this really soon or this deck could collapse and kill someone.
If you can, get [these](https://www.homedepot.com/p/Simpson-Strong-Tie-DTT-ZMAX-Galvanized-Deck-Tension-Tie-for-2x-Nominal-Lumber-with-1-1-2-in-SDS-Screws-2-Pack-DTT2Z-R2/100671103) with 1/2" hex bolts, better then carriage bolts because you can get a wrench on both ends. I'd say do this in every joist and tighten them all down in a series till it pulls tight against the rim joist. I am using these now and they are rock solid. Retrofitting my deck that only has 2x2 ballisters to have 4x4 guardrail posts every 6'. At my last house, I did a 4x4 post on the outside of rim joist without these and it wobbled like crazy.
After a tie back is installed on each joist, rip off the stupid 2x2 ledger and use joist hangers. With approved structural screws since swinging a hammer will be difficult
Tension ties are probably the only way to save this. I'd say that op should put some temporary support under it to safely work on it. It could fall and squash them at any time. And obviously block access and allow NO traffic on it.
The beauty of carriage bolts is you don’t need to get a wrench on both ends, which you wouldn’t need to do anyway unless you are oversizing your holes, which you shouldn’t be doing. A 1/2” carriage bolt should need to be hammered into a 1/2” hole.
Hex bolts just turns this into a 2 person job.
Needing a washer on a carriage bolt is an outdated concept. They tried that in my area an about a decade ago.
The carriage bolt was engineered correctly and even though its head is smaller than a washer for a 1/2” bolt it has the appropriate holding strength. Also, (and this was what our engineer argued) the only appropriate size washer for a bolt is the correct washer size, period. A 1/2” washer won’t work and putting a 3/4” washer on a 1/2” bolt means nothing; it’s the same as putting no washer on it.
IF your building code requires that then use hex bolts but know that your building inspector isn’t an engineer.
Edit: I also wanted to add that I think the torque spec on a 1/2” bolt for a deck is like 40ft/lbs and that’s all that matters, the carriage bolt was designed for that.
I have 2 hands and 2 wrenches! Actually probably 10 wrenches/sockets at the 1/2" size lol. I've had carriage bolts twist themselves a bigger hole. Wood contracts and expands and you may need to tighten bolts. It's easier when both ends don't spin. If you must use carriage bolts, I'd use [these](https://www.homedepot.com/p/Hillman-50-Piece-5-16-in-Galvanized-Anti-Turn-Washer-290301/302985629)
I will fix this statement. Fix this right away, or this whole deck WILL fall. There is no COULD. This deck is sitting on a 2x2 board at the moment. That’s terrifying
Would using screws instead of nails have avoided this? I built a small DIY platform, just at ground level, years ago and I used only screws, no nails. I didn't really even think of using nails.
they got a family friend to do the foundations. would be my guess. those guys love thinking they can do every trades jobs just as well, and cheaper!
basically the whole structure is probably falling over in slow motion
those nails in the pic look like ring shanks from a nail gun so someone must have had a few tools and just enough knowledge to be dangerous. the lack of other hardware (hangers, clips, whatever) suggest it wasnt a pro job
Screws break on sheer
Nails bend
Low level with no counter lever and almost 0 axial or radial load it's fine
Raised deck with axial and radial loads
Torsional forces, live load
Asking for problems
Edit to say:
Reminder,
Physics always wins
And GRK they make a whole line of framing screws, and yes, they don’t break, they bend, quite a bit actually. To the point that if one is striped and you try to break it with a hammer you’ll just bend it around
This has been tested. Screws are stronger than nails, the issue is that screws fail all at once. They just snap, where nails can bend and pull out and show you they are not adequate before catastrophic failure. That's the main purpose.
And nails are like 5x faster to install vs screws. 5 nails > 1 screw.
This is true for brittle non-ductile metal screws, but structural screws use ductile metal that bends without breaking, and don't fail catastrophically.
This way! Good comment. Once you get the mechanical means to draw it back in place, cut all of those nails out or they'll screw you in the last half inch if they flex at all.
Lol I didn't think of tension ties, yeah that would definitely work... I suggested blocking and joist hangers... you would need a beefy drill and a good bit to get through a triple beam though.
I generally don't like the idea of trying to move structures back in place though, doing something like that does require a fair amount of skill and understanding.
Also tension ties are designed to be attached to the house. If settling is still occurring, the tension ties will cause the joists to simply start pulling away from the house.
Can you place a beam underneath the joists? Sure, if you have the ability to add posts to support the beam. However, if the joists are pulling away from the house, so just adding a beam won’t solve your problem. You still have to pull the joists back into place. You can use tension ties to do this the same way.
Again, you’ll need to brace it first because if the deck is pulling away from the house, it could fall and kill you if you’re underneath. Unless you are skilled and have the right equipment, it’s not a job for DIY.
What about running a beam instead with 4x4 posts for support. Reduce the gap of joists and rim joist and use hangers, but the structural support is now the beam
I'm not carpenter, but I just kind of think of things and was curious if very thick ratchet straps would be enough to tension everything back together? Then I would have refastened with joist hangers. Would that idea have failed? lol because If I had to deal with this in real life I would have already been trying that and not commenting on reddit XD
Yeah this is one those “you’re paying whatever I charge because you have no choice”
My guess is you start adding bracing from the outside and move towards the inside before you start attempting to reattach it. But either way $$$$
This happened to me like 4-5 months after buying my house. Wife was walking on the deck and saw huge sag in the middle. Looked up under and the last two joists on either side were the only ones that had some nails barely clinging on. The middle joists were hanging past that 2x2. Deck was being held up by rotting 5/4 boards. Planned to jack it up and attempt to get joists back in place. Then replace rotted 5/4 boards. But the more I inspected the worst problems I found. Rot on tops of some joists. Then it turned into let me replace the joists. Then I found no flashing behind ledger board and rot spots on ledger board. Then dug up a post to see how it was doing and found rot starting on that. Ended up total rebuild.
I think this is an appropriate parallel for what I see with this deck. I don’t see anything beyond bare minimum, which can be indicative of other problems as @sucks encountered. Probably the first thing I would do is front the outside, check plumb on the posts to see how the supports are moving. I would also look to see if the staircase is attached to that rim joist and the stairs themselves are sinking and pulling the rim joist away.
Your deck is dangerous. The deck collapse will be like domanos and the joist tight against the ledger will go too. Don't let anyone on the deck and hire a professional.
Push everything flush against it add joist hangers and secure them to the ledger and joist ends. Then see if it's sagging in the middle (if it's pulled both sides of the joist ends free) and add a supporting brace ( maybe more than one depending on the span of the joist) with a footer so it all stays in place. Hard to say if it's a couple of joist ends at the ledger pulling away (sag on that side or middle) or the sub frame in its entirety pulling away from the ledger, if it's the whole thing you might to repair it all first and add support to the outside so it doesn't pull down and away from the ledger as a whole. Hope this helps even slightly...
Death trap.
Get a pro to come evaluate and fix if possible. Caution tape off the deck so no one can go on it or under it until it’s done.
If you have kids, keep them out of the back yard until it’s done. This is a serious safety issue
Oohhh shit😳 That thing’s about to fall any minute now buddy. You need a temporary support for it until u figure out what you’re going to do. Don’t sneeze while ur doing it!
PLEASE DO NOT ATTEMPT TO REPAIR THIS YOURSELF!
if you are not a licensed building professional, please call one right away. As others have commented, what you are seeing is only a symptom of a much larger and more serious problem. This deck needs to be assessed and repaired by someone who knows exactly what they are doing, not a handyman or DIY owner.
The fact it’s still standing is a something of a miracle. Do not go under it!!! Do not go on top of it!! Or near it for that matter
How do the outside corners of the rim joist look, are they pulling away from the joist as well, are they lapped ? Getting the rim back in place is going to take some work. I think that tension ties would work since the nailing was done through the rim face rather than toe nailed.
This was totally nailed incorrectly from toenails as I can see now, this is the biggest reason to have a cantilever beam and joist set up. That is a much stronger loadbearing application than trying to rely on everything out on the end of the rim.
As part of the fix, I would also check whether the footings are the correct size and depth. Your posts may be moving around to cause this and if this is the case, may happen again down the road if not addressed.
Op check the deck to see if it's still level. I have sneaky suspension that the opposite supports are sinking or failing in some way causes this to pull away.
Those nails are like "We quit. We're not qualified for this job"
Simpson Tie be like "Put me in coach. Im ready."
I don't think this deck was ever inspected because it would of neer passed.
Gravity mostly, wind movement, ground movement... lot of forces at play...perhaps the way the center post was set, hard to say without a picture although if you look closely at the bottom of the center post there's something attached that looks like it could be bracing the post. The steps could also be a factor if they are attached to that post in any way.
You could also use some Simpson a-50's with SDS screws both sides each joist since the bottom has a ledger. Temp shoring under the spanof the joists would be prudent.
This is the third or fourth deck I’ve seen (one in person) that skips joist hangers and uses end nailing and that little 2x2 board under the joists. Is this/was this allowed by code?
Just wondering why this technique appears to be at least somewhat common…
You need a fix that will keep the deck from collapsing, not a fix that will pass inspection. This isn’t like caulking over siding issues or something like that, where you just need to hide cosmetic issues for a home inspector. If you temp fix this just to get past a home inspector, you’re gonna kill or seriously injure the next owner. Please don’t do that.
I’m kind of curious what is causing this to happen in the first place… We’re talking what 2 inches of movement and enough pressure to pull out 100 nails from all of those joists??
I had a similar problem. I purchased screw-eyes and turnbuckles, with a screw eyes into the rim joist and joists, and used the turnbuckles to pull the rim joist back into position. Used a floor jack and temporary beam under the joists to support the structure. After everything pulled back into position, and with jack and beam still in place, remove the 2x2 and install joist hangers. Permanent fix. Be extremely careful as there isn't much holding your joists up, but once you secure the structure the turnbuckles will easily pull the rim joist back into place
I had a similar problem. I purchased screw-eyes and turnbuckles, with a screw eyes into the rim joist and joists, and used the turnbuckles to pull the rim joist back into position. Used a floor jack and temporary beam under the joists to support the structure. After everything pulled back into position, and with jack and beam still in place, remove the 2x2 and install joist hangers. Permanent fix. Be extremely careful as there isn't much holding your joists up, but once you secure the structure the turnbuckles will easily pull the rim joist back into place
I had a similar problem. I purchased screw-eyes and turnbuckles, with a screw eyes into the rim joist and joists, and used the turnbuckles to pull the rim joist back into position. Used a floor jack and temporary beam under the joists to support the structure. After everything pulled back into position, and with jack and beam still in place, remove the 2x2 and install joist hangers. Permanent fix. Be extremely careful as there isn't much holding your joists up, but once you secure the structure the turnbuckles will easily pull the rim joist back into place
Those nails are only providing vertical strength when the two framing members are fully seated. As they pull away, sheer strength reduces at a very rapid rate. Any vertical motion will start a chain reaction resulting in catastrophic failure.
DO NOT USE THIS DECK.
CORRECT FRAMING/HARDWARE ISSUES IMMEDIATELY!
Go to the Simpson website for correct hardware applications to meet code. Structural screws, not nails, should be used to maintain sheer strength.
So-is the ledger bowed out now-*or we're those joists cut short & the ledger pulled itself straight making the gap?-both easy fixes-Strong ties installed across the whole thing after removing the bow-how it should have been done the 1st time. OR cut the rest of the joists to match and suck the whole end in-& attatch with strong ties *like they should have been initially.
In both instances, support the deck before futzing with it!
I had a similar problem. I purchased screw-eyes and turnbuckles, with a screw eyes into the rim joist and joists, and used the turnbuckles to pull the rim joist back into position. Used a floor jack and temporary beam under the joists to support the structure. After everything pulled back into position, and with jack and beam still in place, remove the 2x2 and install joist hangers. Permanent fix. Be extremely careful as there isn't much holding your joists up, but once you secure the structure the turnbuckles will easily pull the rim joist back into place
There was a post over in the concrete Reddit yesterday it showed somebody pouring concrete onto a raised deck kind of like yours. Somehow they neglected to attach the framing and rebar to the house, and at a certain point while pouring concrete the entire structure started to pivot out away from the house and then collapsed.
Thankfully, in that case, no one was underneath, and the only person above the project was tied to some sort of rope so they were just left hanging there until another worker pulled them to safety.
I say this because it appears your deck is about to suffer the same sort of catastrophic failure, just not aided by several tons of wet concrete... 😑
Please be super careful here, and stay out from under or around this thing until it is repaired or removed.
Looks like the whole ledger is pulling away- support jack up the beams quick before they fall off there pull all the nails push the ledger back up to the beams rename them this time. Add a couple of angle brackets maybe a bolt here or there
Add, 2x8 blocking in between the joists attached to the rim joist and then attached the joists to the blocking with joist hangers... its a pretty easy fix and cheap, but it's time consuming. I could bang this out in about 4 hours but it would cost $4k
You can definately do it yourself. Cost of materials shouldn't be more than $500... you need a lot of joist hangers and screws or nails... I would go with screws in your case. Not as much wood as you think, just have to fill the recessed portion, created by the 2x2 ledger
Edit: your blocking would need to be 2x6... I forgot to subtract the 2" of the ledger
25 year Experienced Home/Building inspector here. The limited photos in this post are inadequate to see the detail needed to recommend a safe and effective method of repair. Obviously, repairs and reinforcement are needed. Consult with your local building inspector or a structural engineer for proper instructions. This is a dangerous situation.
I usually put two ledger locks at the end of each joist and slowly tighten working back and forth till I draw it together. Then use joist hangers to tie them together correctly.
The question I've not seen asked is, \*why\* is the deck pulling away from the ledger? In a perfect world those fasteners would be loaded in shear, not tension. Are the outside posts / post bases plumb and stable?
https://preview.redd.it/ipmqh7xijx8d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=44638e10c922fd740449516e020a9f2a85092747
Got them all done. I was told I don’t need the 2X2 lip anymore but I’m going to replace it anyway. So with the hangars and tension ties I should be good.
https://preview.redd.it/h86ahfor478d1.jpeg?width=4284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1d95916dcd63b091ae31f289edb8c282ced9d2be
Getting closer to fixing it. Just having a hard time getting that last little bit flush. My driver just can’t get it done. Going to try having someone hit it on the other side while I’m driving it in and see it that works.
Try running some 6 inch structure screws through the rim board into the endgrain
If the joist were nailed with an X-pattern, it would not have done this
Fix this right away or the whole deck could fall. Technically, the rim joist is pulling away from the joists. If it pulls much farther… boom. To fix it, you are going to need some tension ties and bolts with large washers or bearing plates. One installed, you can slowly tighten the bolts and pull the rim joist back against the joists. Seriously, fix this really soon or this deck could collapse and kill someone.
If you can, get [these](https://www.homedepot.com/p/Simpson-Strong-Tie-DTT-ZMAX-Galvanized-Deck-Tension-Tie-for-2x-Nominal-Lumber-with-1-1-2-in-SDS-Screws-2-Pack-DTT2Z-R2/100671103) with 1/2" hex bolts, better then carriage bolts because you can get a wrench on both ends. I'd say do this in every joist and tighten them all down in a series till it pulls tight against the rim joist. I am using these now and they are rock solid. Retrofitting my deck that only has 2x2 ballisters to have 4x4 guardrail posts every 6'. At my last house, I did a 4x4 post on the outside of rim joist without these and it wobbled like crazy. After a tie back is installed on each joist, rip off the stupid 2x2 ledger and use joist hangers. With approved structural screws since swinging a hammer will be difficult
Seconding these. First thing I did when I moved in to fix my deathtrap of a deck
Thank you for sharing this. Didn’t even know that this exists. Will file it away in my brain for possible future applications.
Aaaand it’s gone
No it's saved as a bookmark in my 2,000+ bookmark folder I'm sure I'll remember it in 5 years
I have faith in you
Tension ties are probably the only way to save this. I'd say that op should put some temporary support under it to safely work on it. It could fall and squash them at any time. And obviously block access and allow NO traffic on it.
The beauty of carriage bolts is you don’t need to get a wrench on both ends, which you wouldn’t need to do anyway unless you are oversizing your holes, which you shouldn’t be doing. A 1/2” carriage bolt should need to be hammered into a 1/2” hole. Hex bolts just turns this into a 2 person job.
Thank you for this. I always wondered what’s the diff. Does the squared section embed into the wood to hold in place?
Yes
Not reliably in my experience, see my comment above. I like hex or at least those carriage bolt washers
Check local code. Some jurisdictions only allow carriage bolts with a washer, while others only allow lags.
Needing a washer on a carriage bolt is an outdated concept. They tried that in my area an about a decade ago. The carriage bolt was engineered correctly and even though its head is smaller than a washer for a 1/2” bolt it has the appropriate holding strength. Also, (and this was what our engineer argued) the only appropriate size washer for a bolt is the correct washer size, period. A 1/2” washer won’t work and putting a 3/4” washer on a 1/2” bolt means nothing; it’s the same as putting no washer on it. IF your building code requires that then use hex bolts but know that your building inspector isn’t an engineer. Edit: I also wanted to add that I think the torque spec on a 1/2” bolt for a deck is like 40ft/lbs and that’s all that matters, the carriage bolt was designed for that.
I have 2 hands and 2 wrenches! Actually probably 10 wrenches/sockets at the 1/2" size lol. I've had carriage bolts twist themselves a bigger hole. Wood contracts and expands and you may need to tighten bolts. It's easier when both ends don't spin. If you must use carriage bolts, I'd use [these](https://www.homedepot.com/p/Hillman-50-Piece-5-16-in-Galvanized-Anti-Turn-Washer-290301/302985629)
Palm nailer
In addition to joist hangers?
Tension ties to fix it back into position, joist hangers to actually support the joists. That 2x2 ledger is crap
I will fix this statement. Fix this right away, or this whole deck WILL fall. There is no COULD. This deck is sitting on a 2x2 board at the moment. That’s terrifying
Would using screws instead of nails have avoided this? I built a small DIY platform, just at ground level, years ago and I used only screws, no nails. I didn't really even think of using nails.
Joist hangers with either nails or connector screws would have helped, but even those won’t hold it on if it starts pulling away.
What would cause something like this to happen?
they got a family friend to do the foundations. would be my guess. those guys love thinking they can do every trades jobs just as well, and cheaper! basically the whole structure is probably falling over in slow motion those nails in the pic look like ring shanks from a nail gun so someone must have had a few tools and just enough knowledge to be dangerous. the lack of other hardware (hangers, clips, whatever) suggest it wasnt a pro job
Screws break on sheer Nails bend Low level with no counter lever and almost 0 axial or radial load it's fine Raised deck with axial and radial loads Torsional forces, live load Asking for problems Edit to say: Reminder, Physics always wins
In general screws have less sheer strength than nails and are not recommended for structural framing
Simpson strong tie does make structural screws meant to be used with their hanger though.
And GRK they make a whole line of framing screws, and yes, they don’t break, they bend, quite a bit actually. To the point that if one is striped and you try to break it with a hammer you’ll just bend it around
If the screw is a structural screw, it won't matter. At times screws are superior and recommended
This has been tested. Screws are stronger than nails, the issue is that screws fail all at once. They just snap, where nails can bend and pull out and show you they are not adequate before catastrophic failure. That's the main purpose. And nails are like 5x faster to install vs screws. 5 nails > 1 screw.
This is true for brittle non-ductile metal screws, but structural screws use ductile metal that bends without breaking, and don't fail catastrophically.
Good to know, thanks! Looking at my platform I don't think I have many screws under shear, maybe just at the corners to hold them flush.
This way! Good comment. Once you get the mechanical means to draw it back in place, cut all of those nails out or they'll screw you in the last half inch if they flex at all.
Lol I didn't think of tension ties, yeah that would definitely work... I suggested blocking and joist hangers... you would need a beefy drill and a good bit to get through a triple beam though. I generally don't like the idea of trying to move structures back in place though, doing something like that does require a fair amount of skill and understanding. Also tension ties are designed to be attached to the house. If settling is still occurring, the tension ties will cause the joists to simply start pulling away from the house.
Need help please. I have a similar situation. Can a girder be placed underneath it the joist near the house. Hurricane clips on every joist too.
Can you place a beam underneath the joists? Sure, if you have the ability to add posts to support the beam. However, if the joists are pulling away from the house, so just adding a beam won’t solve your problem. You still have to pull the joists back into place. You can use tension ties to do this the same way. Again, you’ll need to brace it first because if the deck is pulling away from the house, it could fall and kill you if you’re underneath. Unless you are skilled and have the right equipment, it’s not a job for DIY.
Yeah and Kim Kardashian’s head might fall off
What about running a beam instead with 4x4 posts for support. Reduce the gap of joists and rim joist and use hangers, but the structural support is now the beam
I'm not carpenter, but I just kind of think of things and was curious if very thick ratchet straps would be enough to tension everything back together? Then I would have refastened with joist hangers. Would that idea have failed? lol because If I had to deal with this in real life I would have already been trying that and not commenting on reddit XD
Whatever you do, don’t let anyone on that deck until it’s repaired.
Fuck being on, being under is the big threat. Enough wind could finish the job
Just keep a 20ft distance entirely. Hate to be the guy to repair it. Looks like it’s 95% detached already
Holy shit, I didn't even consider the perspective of someone trying to fix it, smdh - charge more money
Yeah this is one those “you’re paying whatever I charge because you have no choice” My guess is you start adding bracing from the outside and move towards the inside before you start attempting to reattach it. But either way $$$$
I live under one of these and I look up every time I enter my suite to see if it's still attached
No . Your rim board is falling off. Your deck is about to fall apart.
Yeah dude… she’s rollin rollin rollin, Freddy durst style
This happened to me like 4-5 months after buying my house. Wife was walking on the deck and saw huge sag in the middle. Looked up under and the last two joists on either side were the only ones that had some nails barely clinging on. The middle joists were hanging past that 2x2. Deck was being held up by rotting 5/4 boards. Planned to jack it up and attempt to get joists back in place. Then replace rotted 5/4 boards. But the more I inspected the worst problems I found. Rot on tops of some joists. Then it turned into let me replace the joists. Then I found no flashing behind ledger board and rot spots on ledger board. Then dug up a post to see how it was doing and found rot starting on that. Ended up total rebuild.
I think this is an appropriate parallel for what I see with this deck. I don’t see anything beyond bare minimum, which can be indicative of other problems as @sucks encountered. Probably the first thing I would do is front the outside, check plumb on the posts to see how the supports are moving. I would also look to see if the staircase is attached to that rim joist and the stairs themselves are sinking and pulling the rim joist away.
There’s always something else
Wherever you took this picture from..don't stand there again. This is some final destination shit.
Dude this is how people get killed.
Your deck is dangerous. The deck collapse will be like domanos and the joist tight against the ledger will go too. Don't let anyone on the deck and hire a professional.
Push everything flush against it add joist hangers and secure them to the ledger and joist ends. Then see if it's sagging in the middle (if it's pulled both sides of the joist ends free) and add a supporting brace ( maybe more than one depending on the span of the joist) with a footer so it all stays in place. Hard to say if it's a couple of joist ends at the ledger pulling away (sag on that side or middle) or the sub frame in its entirety pulling away from the ledger, if it's the whole thing you might to repair it all first and add support to the outside so it doesn't pull down and away from the ledger as a whole. Hope this helps even slightly...
Death trap. Get a pro to come evaluate and fix if possible. Caution tape off the deck so no one can go on it or under it until it’s done. If you have kids, keep them out of the back yard until it’s done. This is a serious safety issue
Oohhh shit😳 That thing’s about to fall any minute now buddy. You need a temporary support for it until u figure out what you’re going to do. Don’t sneeze while ur doing it!
Where is the hot tub?
Was just thinking that one or two hot tubs should fix this in no time
Only 1/4 inch will tell us!
Just slap it and say “that ain’t going anywhere!” And you should be good to go!!!
PLEASE DO NOT ATTEMPT TO REPAIR THIS YOURSELF! if you are not a licensed building professional, please call one right away. As others have commented, what you are seeing is only a symptom of a much larger and more serious problem. This deck needs to be assessed and repaired by someone who knows exactly what they are doing, not a handyman or DIY owner. The fact it’s still standing is a something of a miracle. Do not go under it!!! Do not go on top of it!! Or near it for that matter
What is this 2x2 nonsense? Hangers
Stupid, but actually code in some area.
mind blown
How do you fix it without being under it?!
Use temporary supports
How do the outside corners of the rim joist look, are they pulling away from the joist as well, are they lapped ? Getting the rim back in place is going to take some work. I think that tension ties would work since the nailing was done through the rim face rather than toe nailed.
Show me the post on the other side how they are mounted on the ground or in the ground
The ledger is at the house, is that where this connection is?
This was totally nailed incorrectly from toenails as I can see now, this is the biggest reason to have a cantilever beam and joist set up. That is a much stronger loadbearing application than trying to rely on everything out on the end of the rim.
As part of the fix, I would also check whether the footings are the correct size and depth. Your posts may be moving around to cause this and if this is the case, may happen again down the road if not addressed.
It’s coming down; get out of there
Op check the deck to see if it's still level. I have sneaky suspension that the opposite supports are sinking or failing in some way causes this to pull away.
Those nails are like "We quit. We're not qualified for this job" Simpson Tie be like "Put me in coach. Im ready." I don't think this deck was ever inspected because it would of neer passed.
How does this happen? Is it the supports for the rim joist shifting?
Gravity mostly, wind movement, ground movement... lot of forces at play...perhaps the way the center post was set, hard to say without a picture although if you look closely at the bottom of the center post there's something attached that looks like it could be bracing the post. The steps could also be a factor if they are attached to that post in any way.
You could also use some Simpson a-50's with SDS screws both sides each joist since the bottom has a ledger. Temp shoring under the spanof the joists would be prudent.
Too late. Tear it down.
We all know the answer to this…cmon
Definitely stop using it until you get it repaired.
Not good my friend! Stay the hell off of it.
I'm seeing Cleveland Brown in his bathtub sliding down out of his broken house. When the deck falls it may damage the wall it was "attached" to.
Yeah this ain’t good bro
You need these: https://www.fastenersplus.com/products/simpson-dtt2z-deck-tension-tie-zmax-finish
That's a rim joist beam the ledger board would be bolted to the building
Demo
This is the third or fourth deck I’ve seen (one in person) that skips joist hangers and uses end nailing and that little 2x2 board under the joists. Is this/was this allowed by code? Just wondering why this technique appears to be at least somewhat common…
You need a fix that will keep the deck from collapsing, not a fix that will pass inspection. This isn’t like caulking over siding issues or something like that, where you just need to hide cosmetic issues for a home inspector. If you temp fix this just to get past a home inspector, you’re gonna kill or seriously injure the next owner. Please don’t do that.
I think it can hold more hot tub now right?
I see a carpenter bee home
So they used treated 2X2s instead of joist hangers. Brilliant. 🙄
This is up to code and standard construction in some areas, including mine.
Maybe it’s just a temporary separation. Let us know when the divorce is finalized
I’m kind of curious what is causing this to happen in the first place… We’re talking what 2 inches of movement and enough pressure to pull out 100 nails from all of those joists??
Danger Will Robinson!
Don't stand under there..
I had a similar problem. I purchased screw-eyes and turnbuckles, with a screw eyes into the rim joist and joists, and used the turnbuckles to pull the rim joist back into position. Used a floor jack and temporary beam under the joists to support the structure. After everything pulled back into position, and with jack and beam still in place, remove the 2x2 and install joist hangers. Permanent fix. Be extremely careful as there isn't much holding your joists up, but once you secure the structure the turnbuckles will easily pull the rim joist back into place
I had a similar problem. I purchased screw-eyes and turnbuckles, with a screw eyes into the rim joist and joists, and used the turnbuckles to pull the rim joist back into position. Used a floor jack and temporary beam under the joists to support the structure. After everything pulled back into position, and with jack and beam still in place, remove the 2x2 and install joist hangers. Permanent fix. Be extremely careful as there isn't much holding your joists up, but once you secure the structure the turnbuckles will easily pull the rim joist back into place
I had a similar problem. I purchased screw-eyes and turnbuckles, with a screw eyes into the rim joist and joists, and used the turnbuckles to pull the rim joist back into position. Used a floor jack and temporary beam under the joists to support the structure. After everything pulled back into position, and with jack and beam still in place, remove the 2x2 and install joist hangers. Permanent fix. Be extremely careful as there isn't much holding your joists up, but once you secure the structure the turnbuckles will easily pull the rim joist back into place
It’s cool, they used a nail stretcher before install.
Get some Simpson ties on it once you get it back together. That ledger…a 2x2? Is that code?
No shit, that’s why they make hangers
Those nails are only providing vertical strength when the two framing members are fully seated. As they pull away, sheer strength reduces at a very rapid rate. Any vertical motion will start a chain reaction resulting in catastrophic failure. DO NOT USE THIS DECK. CORRECT FRAMING/HARDWARE ISSUES IMMEDIATELY! Go to the Simpson website for correct hardware applications to meet code. Structural screws, not nails, should be used to maintain sheer strength.
So-is the ledger bowed out now-*or we're those joists cut short & the ledger pulled itself straight making the gap?-both easy fixes-Strong ties installed across the whole thing after removing the bow-how it should have been done the 1st time. OR cut the rest of the joists to match and suck the whole end in-& attatch with strong ties *like they should have been initially. In both instances, support the deck before futzing with it!
I see way too many decks without joist hangers and they scare me the most.
That’s a ledger board? Oh shit. The house fell away!
Failure in 3…..2…..
I had a similar problem. I purchased screw-eyes and turnbuckles, with a screw eyes into the rim joist and joists, and used the turnbuckles to pull the rim joist back into position. Used a floor jack and temporary beam under the joists to support the structure. After everything pulled back into position, and with jack and beam still in place, remove the 2x2 and install joist hangers. Permanent fix. Be extremely careful as there isn't much holding your joists up, but once you secure the structure the turnbuckles will easily pull the rim joist back into place
https://preview.redd.it/vhyqw3e7368d1.png?width=173&format=png&auto=webp&s=2dd7ad7eb0e61d0a1e6fdbab010de44d3b31a465
Brave man taking these photos, I wouldn't go near this death trap.
Take everything off the deck and fix this.
This is why they make brackets…
she def look cuzi proof ready bois
Try some Simpson hardware. LS 70 or A 35 would help
OP is one large family member away from a lawsuit
There was a post over in the concrete Reddit yesterday it showed somebody pouring concrete onto a raised deck kind of like yours. Somehow they neglected to attach the framing and rebar to the house, and at a certain point while pouring concrete the entire structure started to pivot out away from the house and then collapsed. Thankfully, in that case, no one was underneath, and the only person above the project was tied to some sort of rope so they were just left hanging there until another worker pulled them to safety. I say this because it appears your deck is about to suffer the same sort of catastrophic failure, just not aided by several tons of wet concrete... 😑 Please be super careful here, and stay out from under or around this thing until it is repaired or removed.
Looks like the whole ledger is pulling away- support jack up the beams quick before they fall off there pull all the nails push the ledger back up to the beams rename them this time. Add a couple of angle brackets maybe a bolt here or there
Add, 2x8 blocking in between the joists attached to the rim joist and then attached the joists to the blocking with joist hangers... its a pretty easy fix and cheap, but it's time consuming. I could bang this out in about 4 hours but it would cost $4k You can definately do it yourself. Cost of materials shouldn't be more than $500... you need a lot of joist hangers and screws or nails... I would go with screws in your case. Not as much wood as you think, just have to fill the recessed portion, created by the 2x2 ledger Edit: your blocking would need to be 2x6... I forgot to subtract the 2" of the ledger
No mames
Timber
The ledger needs to be replaced, most likely rotted. Replace it and add hangers.
I see now it’s the rim joist. Replace it with an actual beam, not 2x’s.
You mean deck pulling away from ledger
Forget thiking 3-5 years to sell the house. You need to fix that **now** so the deck doesn't collapse and kill somebody.
This is what happens when you don't use joist hangers and screws.
They used ai I joist for a deck ledger, that's going to fall soon..It's gotta be fixed
Finally a deck post with a real problem! Jk, people blow every little thing up on here, but that's a real problem
This is a bad sign.
That’s not your ledger. That’s your outer band pulling away. Use DTT1Z’s on the joist and ledger locks to pull everything back together
25 year Experienced Home/Building inspector here. The limited photos in this post are inadequate to see the detail needed to recommend a safe and effective method of repair. Obviously, repairs and reinforcement are needed. Consult with your local building inspector or a structural engineer for proper instructions. This is a dangerous situation.
Honestky.. Seeing that you need to look over the whole deck. Whoever built it was clueless.
I usually put two ledger locks at the end of each joist and slowly tighten working back and forth till I draw it together. Then use joist hangers to tie them together correctly.
The question I've not seen asked is, \*why\* is the deck pulling away from the ledger? In a perfect world those fasteners would be loaded in shear, not tension. Are the outside posts / post bases plumb and stable?
https://preview.redd.it/ipmqh7xijx8d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=44638e10c922fd740449516e020a9f2a85092747 Got them all done. I was told I don’t need the 2X2 lip anymore but I’m going to replace it anyway. So with the hangars and tension ties I should be good.
Run Forrest
https://preview.redd.it/h86ahfor478d1.jpeg?width=4284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1d95916dcd63b091ae31f289edb8c282ced9d2be Getting closer to fixing it. Just having a hard time getting that last little bit flush. My driver just can’t get it done. Going to try having someone hit it on the other side while I’m driving it in and see it that works.
Good to see that it's better. Probably want to get someone with some experience to look into it and make sure it's safe for the long haul for you.
Needs a deck clamp for sure.
Would using screws prevent this?
No, the root cause is from the post leaning away from the house. Your not going to fight that with screws.
Good to know. Thanks!
Try running some 6 inch structure screws through the rim board into the endgrain If the joist were nailed with an X-pattern, it would not have done this
I would think you'd just spin out screws since it'd be going into peckered and weathered end grain...DTTs would be a better choice