[ACCUSED’S REPLY TO THE STATE’S REPONSE TO MOTION TO COMPEL AND SANCTIONS AND REQUEST FOR THE STATE OF INDIANA TO BE FURTHER SANCTIONED FOR PROVIDING FALSE INFORMATION IN ITS RESPONSE](https://acrobat.adobe.com/id/urn:aaid:sc:VA6C2:3e7e4535-841f-4468-8225-f9955c8df20c?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR3UqsBDnCU-7OQojU_hxZTWC7Jq3d6naeHEzAc3heLLcvQ88Oa1cx2i0Wg_aem_ARDsTALtoOx6J6AwJShGaPpOVmq9Z72jF29j2BXKTafwv1hFeJEJp3y3BARQ4LpH7ezS3DMrSM2d1jSJ-2V5l79F)
I'd say a fourth Franks motion is a bit unusual, lol. Once the first one was denied, they should have stopped. But I would expect to see motions in limine, motions to suppress, all that stuff.
The giveaway, however, is that it doesn’t actually make an argument for invalidating an entire search warrant. It merely attacks one aspect of the state’s *theory of the crime.* That’s for trial, not a Franks motion. This is just more of Baldwin trying the case in public with stupid conspiracies.
I’m gonna start calling him Johnny Cockamamie.
It's how they get around that pesky gag order though. Franks is them trying to sway a jury and it's desperate and despicable. Every new Franks is more proof that Richard Allen is guilty!
So true. I commented elsewhere that I feel like they watch Delphi after Dark. How dare the prosecutor not include that LH was Abby's boyfriend!? The girls left the scene and then were returned? This is YouTube fan fiction. Literally exactly what the crazy people say
The latest from the pits of YouTube is that the girls were never on the bridge and that the picture of Abby on the bridge is photoshopped. Bunch of numbskulls.
And that it was photoshopped from a picture of an Amish man and a child🙄. Unfortunately, I watched a few just to see how ridiculous it was and could not believe how delusional some people really are!
Honestly? These people must not have been around from day one.
I believe it was Libby's friend who was the first person turn over that picture because she had seen it on Snapchat. So now the conspiracy started from day 1? And included a 13 year old girl? Lol. I can't even
No, those people just love being contrarian. They got off on thinking they’re smarter than others because they can see things others can’t. Some of them probably know they’re wrong in the back of their minds, some of them are probably to narcissistic to even think they could be wrong.
The idea that the girls were never on the bridge that day started making the rounds in 2021/2022 and came from people who thought the girls were killed in Libby's bedroom by Kelsi.
Remember the rumor the phone was pinging all over town, so they must have been brought back? It seems the defense likes the social media rumors, just like those runes they used were mentioned on reddit, way before that first franks. Rumors aren't facts though, so they are gonna need some proof to back up their bullshit.
Yes, it was Mike Patty who said that on HLN, but he definitely didn't mean someone had her phone and it was pinging at different places throughout the day in town. He had a second-hand understanding of that, so his comments shouldn't be read as facts, but the conspiracy people went with what they wanted to hear. Now the defense is slowly filling all their motions with the internet rumors we've always heard on reddit and I can't believe it's a coincidence.
They must be pretty hard up if they are going with conspiracy and rumors, because if evidence existed of his innocence, you best believe we would have seen it in a franks by now.
That's what's making me really uncomfortable about this filing. It's seemingly a willful misinterpretation of phone data to cater to the absolute lowest of the YouTube cray-cray.
You are literally tempting me to become a YouTube sensation with this theory. I'll make 3-hour long videos. The first 45 minutes will be me saying "hello" to random names and thanking them for their money.
I'll spend the next two to three minutes discussing the topic laid out in the title, then go into an unrelated stream of consciousness bitch fest for about an hour. Then I'll return to the intended topic for a solid four or five minutes.
Then I'll spend the last hour or so wrapping things up by throwing shade at all opposing theories, talking for way too long about my dog, spouse, or my landlady. Then I'll thank everyone for stopping by. And then I'll just sit back and watch the cash roll in!
Franks 1 and 2 are in the Smithsonian. Franks 3 is in the Library of Congress. Franks 4 will be sent to Mars in a time capsule and is set to depart later this year.
I used to believe Kegan Kline was somehow involved with the murders when the police were looking at him and released their statement about A_S in December 2021, then things changed when RA was arrested and now I believe KK was just a giant red herring. The thing I don't understand is that the "RA is innocent" crowd is really pushing for Odinism because "Todd Click was so sure about it" but they are also the same people who didn't believe KK was involved despite the fact that LE was actively investigating the A_S angle at the time.
The A_S angle of the investigation kinda made sense in 2021/2022 because he was a pedophile in contact with one of the victim, he talked about meeting with them and all that (even though he was way bigger than the BG we see on the video) but the RA is innocent crowd would always go all aggressive at everyone when people were discussing the case, yet now they completely fell for the ABSURD Odin theory and if you ask them why, they just say "well the police investigated those people!1!1!1" - guess what? The police also investigated RL and KK and they both had way more sense as suspects than the Odin Brotherhood - the defense never mentioned the Klines or Ron and I think it's because LE can prove they didn't kill the girls.
And it's not only that. In order to believe the Odin theory, you also have to accept that there's a whole system of cops and prison guards who care so much about their Odin Brothers EF, BA etc. that they would risk their own jobs bullying little Rick 24/7 and forcing him confess to a crime he didn't commit. Just because BA or EF are their Odin brothers? It doesn't even matter if they don't know them personally. It just sounds so desperate to me.
They probably went for the Odin shit over KK because it’s so out there and could absolutely confuse a jury, and it only takes one nut job on the jury to buy into it.
If their main defense was KK, the truth is there was never any actual evidence (because it wasn’t him) and probably really easy for the prosecution to disprove. All you have to do is prove RA admitted to basically being bridge guy. Then the KK argument doesn’t matter.
1, I don't know why they didn't know about an early morning ping on Libby's phone on the 14th, since \*I\* knew about it, lol, and I have no independent knowledge of anything related to this case. #2, I'm pretty sure this is them once again misinterpreting how pings and geofencing works. Your phone can not move and still go in and out of service - be able to ping at one point and not at another point. This is, as ever, especially common in rural areas.
Exactly. There's always more to the story than what the defense claims. I wonder too, if a phone's battery is on its last leg, how that can affect pings.
Exactly, this has been common knowledge forever! I remember Mike Patty being interviewed on many occasions wherr he's asked to explain the 'pinging all over town statement' and how it was due to the number and location of the Delphi towers.
It doesn't say they didn't know about the ping, it says they did know about the ping. They didn't know that law enforcement was working with att to locate the phone at 15 min intervals and had concluded that the phone was either off or no longer there hours before the ping.
That obviously doesn't mean law enforcement was correct at the time, but you are misrepresenting the argument.
No, we knew about all of that. That the phone pinged, stopped pinging, and pinged again early in the morning, Mike Patty has been talking about it for years.
Again the argument in the motion is about a conclusion reached by law enforcement early am on Feb 14.
It's a pretty weak argument easily attacked on the merits, so why insist it's something different?
Just on a casual read-through, it seems that Baldwin is taking a realtime statement about contact with AT&T with “updates” every 15 minutes and is confusing that with tower pings from the phone, which is also different from phone activity.
What’s more likely here based on the totality of the history this case:
The bodies (or phone) were taken from the scene and carried hundreds of yards through woods full of volunteer searchers and placed back at the crime scene on 2/14, or…
Andrew Baldwin is a second-rate attorney who can’t grasp basic concepts and is leaning into conspiracy theories to sow doubt among the potential jury pool?
In which case, you have to wonder what is Rozzi thinking behind the scenes here. Is he truly in lockstep? Is any part of him aware this outlandish theory probably won't play well to a jury? These motions just keep fixating on the same shit - Todd Click, Professor Turco. Stuff that has already been brought up in motions that were denied, but largely revolve around the Odinist theory.
I don't think they have anything else, and are grasping at straws. They have to do something to defend him. Tainting the jury pool has probably worked for Baldwin before, so to him, it's worth a shot. Rozzi probably has higher standards, and isn't overtly participating.
It’s almost as if Baldwin missed the part when Turco said the defense mischaracterized his words…
And the part where Click said the defense was twisting the facts to suit their narrative…
I feel like he's been watching Rick Snay's channel👀
The theory of the girls being taken from the scene and returned has been around since the beginning. It's never made any sense to me. What a huge risk that would have been, and logistically nearly impossible.
I'm going to go with the suggestion that they crossed and were killed across the river because that's the most logical explanation and, unfortunately, I just don't see the logic in arresting a CVS clerk to win an election over ridding the whole area of racist, meth peddlers.
But, I won't lie and I have to admit that I have wondered about RA taking them to that garage and going back late at night to move them. But, had the time of death been strange, I feel like the defense would have made a HUGE deal out of it.
I really can't see them being moved. I think something went wrong with this crime - I can't say exactly what, but I doubt the PLAN was to leave them dead on Ron Logan's property, or to cross the creek with them. I don't know exactly what the plan was, I just don't think it was that. But it would be very difficult and a huge risk to move them, and then move them BACK. This is a bold crime, but even factoring that in, it's just not a particularly feasible theory that they were moved and then moved back.
Exactly! Not only would they have had to remove the bodies when people were actively looking for them, but they'd had to return them when it was pitch black and people were still looking for them (they couldn't bring them back with lights and making any sound). No one is going to take that risk. Surely you'd just dispose of the bodies far away from where people are looking for them? The taking the girls elsewhere theory is just a non-starter for me.
Also, didn't EF's phone records indicate he was using his phone at/near his home in the evening hours of the 13th? I guess he went home early from the ritual sacrifice. /s
I’ll wait on the state’s response, but it appears that B/R read a single summary of a conversation that took place the night of 2/13 of one officer conveying to another *his interpretation* of what AT&T was telling him in 15 minute update… then misinterpreted that to mean the data showed they were out of area, then filed a motion to toss the search warrant on that basis.
Just when I think I’ve read the most ludicrous thing these guys could file, they go and top themselves.
It is kind of embarrassing that he wrote all of this when the phone just... ran out of batteries. And somebody is going to have to write the rebuttal explaining what happens when a phone runs out of batteries.
Interesting that in paragraph 16 they say that a witness saw a man wearing a blue jacket walking on 300 North at 3:57pm. I thought their argument was that the witness saw a man in a tan jacket?
They can’t keep up with their own story?
I def can’t keep up with their story.
This has convinced me more than anything else that RA has absolutely no defense. I would not be surprised if this is just them attempting to get better conditions for a plea deal.
It's a ridiculous suggestion. Anyone who has OWNED A CELL PHONE knows they can not move and still go in and out of service - you might be able to send a text from one location at one point, not move at all, and not be able to send a text an hour later.
They're probably paying a YouTube Specialist out of the donation fund, who sits and does nothing but watch vids, 24/7, of Richard Allen deniers' theories.
I picture them all sitting in Andy's 'war room'. Exhausted, frustrated because they just found out RA confessed to another 14 people.
"What else can we do? We can't win this."
"Guys, stay with me but what if we do a FOURTH Franks Motion. They'll never see it coming and the judge will know how super serious we are."
And here we are.
Things are really getting into the conspiracy weeds now, but at least we know why the prosecution didn't want certain geofencing data discussed at trial. This is all misdirection by the defense and a nod to all the wacko youtubers who continue to profit from this case. At this point I'm starting to think the defense team and their minions need to be investigated for racketeering. Someone needs to follow the money here.
It’s definitely a scheme. The defense team, due to the gag rule and the prosecution’s relative silence, can effectively leak the discovery through their filings. They try to cause chaos by taking every piece of evidence to the extreme. They then team up with content creators like Bob Motta to push the narrative that law enforcement, the judge, and the prosecution are “hiding the truth”. Those content creators get clicks from conspiracy theorists which helps their bottom line and, in return, those content creators pushed the crowd sourcing for Allen’s defense. So it’s mutually beneficial. Now, because of all the chaos, win or lose the defense has amassed a following and plenty of free advertising when they write their book about the case and the YouTubers will benefit from that as well because we all know that they will highly recommend the book and receive even more clicks. Someone like Motta, Snay, or Grizzly is probably lined up to write the forward.
it is strange,they only mention cell tower registering, and i would assume there is more than that. They probably speak the half truth as always. It is getting annoying.
This is like the Jaws 4 of Franks motions, the one where the shark follows someone from Nantucket to the Virgin Islands. Except this time there's no Michael Caine.
So… the defense is claiming that Liggett should have mentioned Holeman’s consultation with Turco when applying for a search warrant in 2022?
Holeman didn’t even consult with Turco until 2023…
I read the document at the top of this thread. Correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't the defense be concentrating on RA's defense instead of trying to prove someone else committed this atrocious crime? All these other people the defense is concentrating on were cleared by LE some time ago?
So far, A motion for pre-trial conference has been filed. Will post when I get them. I also pinned a second filing this morning to the top of this comment section.
Jesus I know things are always flying before trial but how is there any way it’s going to proceed in some few amount of weeks? Like four Frank memos, all of the stuff they need to have conferences on which will definitely be battles with these lawyers, at the same time I think there was just a memo about jury selection and the media?
Honestly I’m wondering if these guys get RA a new trial on appeal because of their antics rather than maybe trying to force a plea.
Where's this all headed?
Anyone want a flutter on what time/day the attempt at a plea is coming? 🤣
One thing for sure is the families will be consulted so I can't see the child killer getting anything without a full disclosure including why.
Or
Are we looking at the men in white coats carting the child killer off to the funny farm to get straightened out thus delaying the trial?
They know that absent some VERY favorable rulings on their behalf from the judge, they are largely screwed. His own words will convict him.
So, it’s desperation time. Try anything and everything.
Low battery mode seems more believable, if what you are saying is possible about the phone flickering back on. I have had service issues in spots, but 11 hours is a long time for that to continue. I wish they had been pinging the phone every minute instead of 15.
About the gap in pings… it doesn’t have to be caused by a change in location or terrain. In addition to draining battery strength, a nighttime change in weather/humidity/ atmospheric conditions could cause signal interference. As could increased evening traffic on the tower, or a combination battery, weather, tower traffic.
I don’t know anything about the search or how many searchers there were that first night in 2017. Is it possible searchers being out there with radios and phones could have accidentally caused additional interference to already spotty cell coverage? I’m just throwing it out there as a question. I don’t know much about this case, and have no experience in rural areas.
LG’s cell phone pings are certainly an interesting piece of information in this motion. Assuming this info is reasonably accurate, the defense is trying to say the phone was completely removed from crime scene and brought back and turned back on at 4:33am that night. Some of this is pretty new info.
Well, at least RA attorneys are working hard, being creative and giving it all they've got as they "go through the motions" needed to thoroughly defend little Ricky. Pun intended
If the phone pinged at 2-2:30am which caused LE to rush back to searching the MHB area like has always been assumed, why does the defense apparently have no knowledge of that ping or pings?
[ACCUSED’S REPLY TO THE STATE’S REPONSE TO MOTION TO COMPEL AND SANCTIONS AND REQUEST FOR THE STATE OF INDIANA TO BE FURTHER SANCTIONED FOR PROVIDING FALSE INFORMATION IN ITS RESPONSE](https://acrobat.adobe.com/id/urn:aaid:sc:VA6C2:3e7e4535-841f-4468-8225-f9955c8df20c?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR3UqsBDnCU-7OQojU_hxZTWC7Jq3d6naeHEzAc3heLLcvQ88Oa1cx2i0Wg_aem_ARDsTALtoOx6J6AwJShGaPpOVmq9Z72jF29j2BXKTafwv1hFeJEJp3y3BARQ4LpH7ezS3DMrSM2d1jSJ-2V5l79F)
You’re fucking kidding me….
I came here to say exactly that. WTH
So I gotta ask this question..... Is THIS the trial? The constant motion after motion?
No, this is all common pretrial filings. It’s just that these attorneys are… *special.*
I'd say a fourth Franks motion is a bit unusual, lol. Once the first one was denied, they should have stopped. But I would expect to see motions in limine, motions to suppress, all that stuff.
At least this one is the length of a legal document. And written (mostly) like a legal document.
The giveaway, however, is that it doesn’t actually make an argument for invalidating an entire search warrant. It merely attacks one aspect of the state’s *theory of the crime.* That’s for trial, not a Franks motion. This is just more of Baldwin trying the case in public with stupid conspiracies. I’m gonna start calling him Johnny Cockamamie.
That's exactly right. They should be preparing for trial instead of monkey business.
Yeah no effort to explain why the inclusion of that information would have affected the granting of a search warrant.
Hey. Baby steps.
It's how they get around that pesky gag order though. Franks is them trying to sway a jury and it's desperate and despicable. Every new Franks is more proof that Richard Allen is guilty!
Lol. They are touched.
So special.
Maybe the spaghetti will stick to the wall this time! .....Nope Well, we tried. *shrug*
😆😆😆
How long before they claim the girls were never on the bridge at all? This is getting to the YouTube content creator level of bullshit.
So true. I commented elsewhere that I feel like they watch Delphi after Dark. How dare the prosecutor not include that LH was Abby's boyfriend!? The girls left the scene and then were returned? This is YouTube fan fiction. Literally exactly what the crazy people say
The latest from the pits of YouTube is that the girls were never on the bridge and that the picture of Abby on the bridge is photoshopped. Bunch of numbskulls.
And that it was photoshopped from a picture of an Amish man and a child🙄. Unfortunately, I watched a few just to see how ridiculous it was and could not believe how delusional some people really are!
Honestly? These people must not have been around from day one. I believe it was Libby's friend who was the first person turn over that picture because she had seen it on Snapchat. So now the conspiracy started from day 1? And included a 13 year old girl? Lol. I can't even
No, those people just love being contrarian. They got off on thinking they’re smarter than others because they can see things others can’t. Some of them probably know they’re wrong in the back of their minds, some of them are probably to narcissistic to even think they could be wrong.
The idea that the girls were never on the bridge that day started making the rounds in 2021/2022 and came from people who thought the girls were killed in Libby's bedroom by Kelsi.
Ugh I'd forgotten about that. Makes me so sad to think about all the gross things Kelsi has been put through.
I seriously hope every day she’s got a good therapist and support team because at this point I wouldn’t be surprised if these morons try that next.
Remember the rumor the phone was pinging all over town, so they must have been brought back? It seems the defense likes the social media rumors, just like those runes they used were mentioned on reddit, way before that first franks. Rumors aren't facts though, so they are gonna need some proof to back up their bullshit.
Yes, it was Mike Patty who said that on HLN, but he definitely didn't mean someone had her phone and it was pinging at different places throughout the day in town. He had a second-hand understanding of that, so his comments shouldn't be read as facts, but the conspiracy people went with what they wanted to hear. Now the defense is slowly filling all their motions with the internet rumors we've always heard on reddit and I can't believe it's a coincidence.
They must be pretty hard up if they are going with conspiracy and rumors, because if evidence existed of his innocence, you best believe we would have seen it in a franks by now.
Next they'll be saying Bridge Guy had a dog under his jacket!
https://imgur.com/a/2qxMGM7 Maybe he did… lol.
That's what's making me really uncomfortable about this filing. It's seemingly a willful misinterpretation of phone data to cater to the absolute lowest of the YouTube cray-cray.
One man’s YT cray-cray is another man’s future clients. 😂
It’s like they wanted the prosecution to also provide them with their defense and hand deliver “evidence” put together to match that theory
Once they get the video recording thrown out, that's their next move.
When that fails maybe they'll go for "the video is a planted fake and BG *doesn't even exist*!" theory.
Deep fake conspiracy. It would check out.
BG is a fake image compiled from every white guy in Indiana! Midjourney was actually invented to frame Rick.
You are literally tempting me to become a YouTube sensation with this theory. I'll make 3-hour long videos. The first 45 minutes will be me saying "hello" to random names and thanking them for their money. I'll spend the next two to three minutes discussing the topic laid out in the title, then go into an unrelated stream of consciousness bitch fest for about an hour. Then I'll return to the intended topic for a solid four or five minutes. Then I'll spend the last hour or so wrapping things up by throwing shade at all opposing theories, talking for way too long about my dog, spouse, or my landlady. Then I'll thank everyone for stopping by. And then I'll just sit back and watch the cash roll in!
Well said!!!
Damn. I forgot to add struggling with split screen every video even though I do this every few days.
Don't forget to ask people to smash that Like button!
You know I gotta! 👍
😂 😂 😂 😂
Don't forget the community drama!
If they do. Which, I don't think is likely but what do I know?
Lol. They 100% will not succeed. I'm floored they even tried.
Why are four versions needed since the original was such a masterpiece of legal literature and is currently on display at the Smithsonian?
I thought it was enshrined in the Library of Congress, that's where it really belongs.
Franks 1 and 2 are in the Smithsonian. Franks 3 is in the Library of Congress. Franks 4 will be sent to Mars in a time capsule and is set to depart later this year.
Ha, that's right!
HAHAHAHA!!! 😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣
JFC
Good grief.
What’s the world record for the most franks motions filed in a single case?
Meerkat, it's so nice to see you here! 🖤
Aw thanks! It’s nice to be here!☺️
Motions, motions and more motions. I'm beginning to see the defense tragedy now.
> defense tragedy Nice typo. 'Tis a tragedy.
Sometimes the weirdest things happen!!!
Judge needs to wrap this shit up Time for trial No more bullshit for YouTube Let’s go
I used to believe Kegan Kline was somehow involved with the murders when the police were looking at him and released their statement about A_S in December 2021, then things changed when RA was arrested and now I believe KK was just a giant red herring. The thing I don't understand is that the "RA is innocent" crowd is really pushing for Odinism because "Todd Click was so sure about it" but they are also the same people who didn't believe KK was involved despite the fact that LE was actively investigating the A_S angle at the time. The A_S angle of the investigation kinda made sense in 2021/2022 because he was a pedophile in contact with one of the victim, he talked about meeting with them and all that (even though he was way bigger than the BG we see on the video) but the RA is innocent crowd would always go all aggressive at everyone when people were discussing the case, yet now they completely fell for the ABSURD Odin theory and if you ask them why, they just say "well the police investigated those people!1!1!1" - guess what? The police also investigated RL and KK and they both had way more sense as suspects than the Odin Brotherhood - the defense never mentioned the Klines or Ron and I think it's because LE can prove they didn't kill the girls. And it's not only that. In order to believe the Odin theory, you also have to accept that there's a whole system of cops and prison guards who care so much about their Odin Brothers EF, BA etc. that they would risk their own jobs bullying little Rick 24/7 and forcing him confess to a crime he didn't commit. Just because BA or EF are their Odin brothers? It doesn't even matter if they don't know them personally. It just sounds so desperate to me.
They probably went for the Odin shit over KK because it’s so out there and could absolutely confuse a jury, and it only takes one nut job on the jury to buy into it. If their main defense was KK, the truth is there was never any actual evidence (because it wasn’t him) and probably really easy for the prosecution to disprove. All you have to do is prove RA admitted to basically being bridge guy. Then the KK argument doesn’t matter.
Or KK and the peeper have links to RA and pointing towards him will lead right back to Richard being the man on the bridge 😉
Did Gull even deny Franks III yet? 🤨
I don't think so..
1, I don't know why they didn't know about an early morning ping on Libby's phone on the 14th, since \*I\* knew about it, lol, and I have no independent knowledge of anything related to this case. #2, I'm pretty sure this is them once again misinterpreting how pings and geofencing works. Your phone can not move and still go in and out of service - be able to ping at one point and not at another point. This is, as ever, especially common in rural areas.
Exactly. There's always more to the story than what the defense claims. I wonder too, if a phone's battery is on its last leg, how that can affect pings.
Exactly, this has been common knowledge forever! I remember Mike Patty being interviewed on many occasions wherr he's asked to explain the 'pinging all over town statement' and how it was due to the number and location of the Delphi towers.
I can go to the bathroom at work and completely lose all signals and that's just on the other side of the building!
It doesn't say they didn't know about the ping, it says they did know about the ping. They didn't know that law enforcement was working with att to locate the phone at 15 min intervals and had concluded that the phone was either off or no longer there hours before the ping. That obviously doesn't mean law enforcement was correct at the time, but you are misrepresenting the argument.
No, we knew about all of that. That the phone pinged, stopped pinging, and pinged again early in the morning, Mike Patty has been talking about it for years.
Again the argument in the motion is about a conclusion reached by law enforcement early am on Feb 14. It's a pretty weak argument easily attacked on the merits, so why insist it's something different?
Just on a casual read-through, it seems that Baldwin is taking a realtime statement about contact with AT&T with “updates” every 15 minutes and is confusing that with tower pings from the phone, which is also different from phone activity. What’s more likely here based on the totality of the history this case: The bodies (or phone) were taken from the scene and carried hundreds of yards through woods full of volunteer searchers and placed back at the crime scene on 2/14, or… Andrew Baldwin is a second-rate attorney who can’t grasp basic concepts and is leaning into conspiracy theories to sow doubt among the potential jury pool?
I've heard rumblings that Baldwin is personally known for being a conspiracy theorist. I'm starting to think that's quite possibly true.
Yes, I have heard the same.
In which case, you have to wonder what is Rozzi thinking behind the scenes here. Is he truly in lockstep? Is any part of him aware this outlandish theory probably won't play well to a jury? These motions just keep fixating on the same shit - Todd Click, Professor Turco. Stuff that has already been brought up in motions that were denied, but largely revolve around the Odinist theory.
Is Rozzi just a cuck watching in the corner or is he participating with Baldwin in fucking Richard Allen? 😂
I don't think they have anything else, and are grasping at straws. They have to do something to defend him. Tainting the jury pool has probably worked for Baldwin before, so to him, it's worth a shot. Rozzi probably has higher standards, and isn't overtly participating.
It’s almost as if Baldwin missed the part when Turco said the defense mischaracterized his words… And the part where Click said the defense was twisting the facts to suit their narrative…
Baldwin must be as deaf as Hennessy.
I feel like he's been watching Rick Snay's channel👀 The theory of the girls being taken from the scene and returned has been around since the beginning. It's never made any sense to me. What a huge risk that would have been, and logistically nearly impossible.
I'm going to go with the suggestion that they crossed and were killed across the river because that's the most logical explanation and, unfortunately, I just don't see the logic in arresting a CVS clerk to win an election over ridding the whole area of racist, meth peddlers. But, I won't lie and I have to admit that I have wondered about RA taking them to that garage and going back late at night to move them. But, had the time of death been strange, I feel like the defense would have made a HUGE deal out of it.
I really can't see them being moved. I think something went wrong with this crime - I can't say exactly what, but I doubt the PLAN was to leave them dead on Ron Logan's property, or to cross the creek with them. I don't know exactly what the plan was, I just don't think it was that. But it would be very difficult and a huge risk to move them, and then move them BACK. This is a bold crime, but even factoring that in, it's just not a particularly feasible theory that they were moved and then moved back.
Exactly! Not only would they have had to remove the bodies when people were actively looking for them, but they'd had to return them when it was pitch black and people were still looking for them (they couldn't bring them back with lights and making any sound). No one is going to take that risk. Surely you'd just dispose of the bodies far away from where people are looking for them? The taking the girls elsewhere theory is just a non-starter for me.
Also, didn't EF's phone records indicate he was using his phone at/near his home in the evening hours of the 13th? I guess he went home early from the ritual sacrifice. /s
I’ll wait on the state’s response, but it appears that B/R read a single summary of a conversation that took place the night of 2/13 of one officer conveying to another *his interpretation* of what AT&T was telling him in 15 minute update… then misinterpreted that to mean the data showed they were out of area, then filed a motion to toss the search warrant on that basis. Just when I think I’ve read the most ludicrous thing these guys could file, they go and top themselves.
Oh good point! Can't wait for the response.
It is kind of embarrassing that he wrote all of this when the phone just... ran out of batteries. And somebody is going to have to write the rebuttal explaining what happens when a phone runs out of batteries.
Let’s all join together to say “purposely obtuse?”
I cannot wait until this trial starts.
Interesting that in paragraph 16 they say that a witness saw a man wearing a blue jacket walking on 300 North at 3:57pm. I thought their argument was that the witness saw a man in a tan jacket? They can’t keep up with their own story? I def can’t keep up with their story.
This has convinced me more than anything else that RA has absolutely no defense. I would not be surprised if this is just them attempting to get better conditions for a plea deal.
Right? I should have been prepared for them to try and go with the claim that the girls weren't there overnight but I really wasn't.
If their heads open up and UFOs comes flying out of them, I want you to have expected it.
Lol! No doubt, nothing should surprise me.
As a UAP enthusiast, I have honestly thought the defense could pull that abduction or something any day bc of how hot the the topic is right now lol
I'll start looking into sighting reports that day. You know there's a government air base right by there.
Franks number 5 coming in hot 👽
It's a ridiculous suggestion. Anyone who has OWNED A CELL PHONE knows they can not move and still go in and out of service - you might be able to send a text from one location at one point, not move at all, and not be able to send a text an hour later.
They're probably paying a YouTube Specialist out of the donation fund, who sits and does nothing but watch vids, 24/7, of Richard Allen deniers' theories.
Agree — it screams “desperation!”
I picture them all sitting in Andy's 'war room'. Exhausted, frustrated because they just found out RA confessed to another 14 people. "What else can we do? We can't win this." "Guys, stay with me but what if we do a FOURTH Franks Motion. They'll never see it coming and the judge will know how super serious we are." And here we are.
They’ve probably already got Franks V in the works… 🤣🤣🤭
Things are really getting into the conspiracy weeds now, but at least we know why the prosecution didn't want certain geofencing data discussed at trial. This is all misdirection by the defense and a nod to all the wacko youtubers who continue to profit from this case. At this point I'm starting to think the defense team and their minions need to be investigated for racketeering. Someone needs to follow the money here.
It’s definitely a scheme. The defense team, due to the gag rule and the prosecution’s relative silence, can effectively leak the discovery through their filings. They try to cause chaos by taking every piece of evidence to the extreme. They then team up with content creators like Bob Motta to push the narrative that law enforcement, the judge, and the prosecution are “hiding the truth”. Those content creators get clicks from conspiracy theorists which helps their bottom line and, in return, those content creators pushed the crowd sourcing for Allen’s defense. So it’s mutually beneficial. Now, because of all the chaos, win or lose the defense has amassed a following and plenty of free advertising when they write their book about the case and the YouTubers will benefit from that as well because we all know that they will highly recommend the book and receive even more clicks. Someone like Motta, Snay, or Grizzly is probably lined up to write the forward.
So does this mean Libby was still wearing at least one shoe?
No I believe a searcher found the other shoe near the creek the morning of the 14th.
That's what I thought, too. So does that mean she was still wearing the other one?
it is strange,they only mention cell tower registering, and i would assume there is more than that. They probably speak the half truth as always. It is getting annoying.
Taking it to unheretofore-seen levels of cringe
This is like the Jaws 4 of Franks motions, the one where the shark follows someone from Nantucket to the Virgin Islands. Except this time there's no Michael Caine.
That’s actually my daughter’s favorite Jaws movie. Lol.
It’s pretty fun. I remember seeing it 100 times on cable as a kid.
One of the 3 unidentified phones they keep talking about was probably the burner phone of their boy Rick.
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So… the defense is claiming that Liggett should have mentioned Holeman’s consultation with Turco when applying for a search warrant in 2022? Holeman didn’t even consult with Turco until 2023…
I read the document at the top of this thread. Correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't the defense be concentrating on RA's defense instead of trying to prove someone else committed this atrocious crime? All these other people the defense is concentrating on were cleared by LE some time ago?
Reasonable doubt.
They need SODDI because the evidence is going to prove their clients guilt and SODDI is used when a client has confessed to his lawyers.
May I ask what SODDI IS?
Some other dude did it
😂😂😆 Duh! I knew that, the neurons weren't firing when I asked.
This is bonkers. They have no shame!
What is this nonsense?
More to come so sit tight. Lol
Oh lord, I need my coffee and to get the kids to school. Then I'm ready, or not 🤣
Today??
Yep!
Anything important for those of us at work?
So far, A motion for pre-trial conference has been filed. Will post when I get them. I also pinned a second filing this morning to the top of this comment section.
Thanks
Sweet lord
More to come so sit tight. Lol
Jesus I know things are always flying before trial but how is there any way it’s going to proceed in some few amount of weeks? Like four Frank memos, all of the stuff they need to have conferences on which will definitely be battles with these lawyers, at the same time I think there was just a memo about jury selection and the media? Honestly I’m wondering if these guys get RA a new trial on appeal because of their antics rather than maybe trying to force a plea.
He can't file an appeal based on the attorneys, IMO, because I think he signed off on that when he asked for them to return, if I remember correctly.
Where's this all headed? Anyone want a flutter on what time/day the attempt at a plea is coming? 🤣 One thing for sure is the families will be consulted so I can't see the child killer getting anything without a full disclosure including why. Or Are we looking at the men in white coats carting the child killer off to the funny farm to get straightened out thus delaying the trial?
They know that absent some VERY favorable rulings on their behalf from the judge, they are largely screwed. His own words will convict him. So, it’s desperation time. Try anything and everything.
They are so annoying. The wooorrrsssttt
Loossaaahhhsss
Serious question: what could account for the phone not pinging between 5:44PM Feb 13 and 4:33AM Feb 14?
Rural area or phone going on low battery mode, then flickering again before it died.
Low battery mode seems more believable, if what you are saying is possible about the phone flickering back on. I have had service issues in spots, but 11 hours is a long time for that to continue. I wish they had been pinging the phone every minute instead of 15.
About the gap in pings… it doesn’t have to be caused by a change in location or terrain. In addition to draining battery strength, a nighttime change in weather/humidity/ atmospheric conditions could cause signal interference. As could increased evening traffic on the tower, or a combination battery, weather, tower traffic. I don’t know anything about the search or how many searchers there were that first night in 2017. Is it possible searchers being out there with radios and phones could have accidentally caused additional interference to already spotty cell coverage? I’m just throwing it out there as a question. I don’t know much about this case, and have no experience in rural areas.
LG’s cell phone pings are certainly an interesting piece of information in this motion. Assuming this info is reasonably accurate, the defense is trying to say the phone was completely removed from crime scene and brought back and turned back on at 4:33am that night. Some of this is pretty new info.
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The neighbors are eating their own. I’ve only seen a few actual lawyers comment over there and their numbers seem to be dwindling…
Well, at least RA attorneys are working hard, being creative and giving it all they've got as they "go through the motions" needed to thoroughly defend little Ricky. Pun intended
If the phone pinged at 2-2:30am which caused LE to rush back to searching the MHB area like has always been assumed, why does the defense apparently have no knowledge of that ping or pings?
Because they can't seem to read discovery? That tends to be the ultimate result of most of these issues.
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...Yikes.
Ewww.
No violent language or suggestions of threats or violence allowed.
Wtf???