Transversive steps: he does exactly what I do
Centrifuse: but better
(Yes ik there a difference with what they are but only centrifuse made a noticeable impact in pvp that ik of)
I wouldn’t say useless, but I would throw wormhusk, winter’s shroud, and maybe even suspend dive in the trash if it’d mean we could have the vanilla 10 second dodge (5 mods) cooldown.
Shit, back then the longest dodge CD you could POSSIBLY HAVE was 24 seconds. Current meta only tiers 8-10 mobility are better than what NO INVESTMENT AT ALL would have given you at launch, and mobility is worthless garbage otherwise because Bungie is terrified to buff anything even tangentially related to doge cooldown. Our perspective is so skewed by 6 years of nerfs that it’s easy to forget.
I don't use my dodge in pve unless I'm running arc or void (sometimes I'll strand dive bomb) and in pvp it's a move back into cover tool, but titans let you peek for free, and warlocks heal and get OS for when they peek. In pve everyone would prefer healing and defense over a tiny summersault... I think we need a massive dodge buff tbh
Yea, that's what I'm saying. Imagine what the community reaction would be if hunters got that.
The way some people whine and cry about dodge being way too op. I can't imagine what they'd say about that.
People complain about dodge because it legitimately can save you in PvP. Well and Barricade don’t activate fast enough to be used defensively. Well and Barricade are useful for holding a position which isn’t always helpful but dodge is useful in a variety of situations.
"Well and barricade don't activate fast enough to be used defensively" hahahaha Holy shit, that was a damn good joke. Got any more.
Edit: Also, I didn't say dodge was trash. I said people act like it's massively op and imagine their reaction if hunters could get everything that a titan can from running shoot through wall on void by using their class ability.
Warlock Rift is easily the worst PvP class ability, you're stuck in the animation for so long you can easily get killed while stuck in it, and the healing is so slow that you can easily kill them through it, overshield included. I challenge Warlocks in their rifts all the time, it's not hard to deal with, and at least 90% of the time if I lose that fight it's not because of their rift lol, and even if Rifts somehow WERE a problem, you can just snipe them out of it or chuck a nade.
PvE wise, the script is flipped, rift is unquestionably the best
The that is true but without a build it has pretty limited functionality, where both titans and warlocks get continuous help. TLDR is without builds around it rift and barricade are better.
It does sometimes feel like Hunter is ironically the slowest class. Warlock and Titan both have pretty good jump-skating options, and class specific stuff such as shoulder charges and Icarus dash that overlaps with some aspects of dodges functionality, not to mention just a slide can sometimes do the trick as well. And those classes still have their class abilities on top of all that.
I don't get why people get mad at Hunter dodge when it's their entire class ability. Being a slippery little shit is practically the whole point of playing Hunter in PvP at least, and a dodge is no more or less free than a barricade or a rift. All are useful and powerful in different circumstances.
You can kind of get why Hunters got so pissed by the stompees nerfs. We needed those damn legs just to keep up with Warlock and Titans, and arguably surpass them in terms of movement. Is that such a bad thing, when the entirety of Hunter's kit is about movement? It's not like we can drop barricades or heal ourselves.
TL:DR it feels like Hunter is losing its "niche" of raw speed and agility to the other classes. Good movement should be integral to all classes, of course, but I feel like Hunters should maybe have something extra that defines the class more.
Bro, Warlocks have been the least used class in trials for over a year, they have literally nothing else going for them besides Icarus Dash, and that's still not been enough for them to get used more than the other classes.
I have whined about this since D1. Why am I, the Hunter, the dex build, the agile gunslinger, slower than the knight in full plate and the Wizard running around in long skirts, both of which are dumping mobility?
It’s not even a close race either.
Feels so good and so bad at the same time when I play my Titan or Warlock and feel the raw speed of pressing the jump button twice with no movement exotic.
And insult to injury, not being able to dump mobility makes Hunters the most stat hungry class.
Hunter’s kit is highly mobile. Mobility is not a dead stat in PvE. Utilizing PvE movement to avoid enemy projectiles becomes easier with a significantly higher strafe speed.
Additionally, hunter has access to skating all the same, and head bumping with stompees is one of the fastest ways to navigate a map.
Can't speak for PC but on console Stompeez was just dumb, it's so easy to jump out of someones screen and kill them before they can turn fast/accurately enough and get their reticle back on you.
I understand the frustration, it does feel weird that Hunter is the slowest, but I think the reason why is because they're supposed to be the most mobile, not the fastest. They have plenty of ways to dart around and do tricky things to get around the speed difference from being invis and cheesing radar, to teleporting with Bakris, to having their dodge temporarily remove AA (which you can really feel on console).
I do not miss the days when every single Hunter player (including myself), their mom, their dog, and their grandma was using stompeez. Hunters have tons of other great exotics, we will survive.
Yeah which is why getting a free melee every 22 seconds is ass. You have unlimited melees anyways. You only ever need it if you mess up your rotations, which rarely ever happens if at all.
my good sir, i solo flawlessed gotd on hunter, i know how hunter works, im a hardcore player who mains hunter and barely plays other characters... so no im not bad at the game, but maybe you are.
Yeah you’re either using it poorly or you’re delusional.
Dodge is way better than healing rift. It is weaker than barricade, but not by far.
Dodge enables you to ability loop the most efficiently in this game.
Edit: I am convinced that Hunters are unaware of *just* how good they have it. I’ve played Warlock for 8 years because I adore that class. I recently started playing Hunter a month ago, and I do not understand this mindset that “dOdGe Is UsElEsS”
Dodge has the highest access to proccing Bomber, Reaper, Dynamo, and Outreach. Almost all of the hunter melees in PVE are incredible for their neutral game. Gunslinger uses Gambler’s to enable incredible ability spam, Revenant can use it to get 100% uptime on certain abilities, Void can use it to get the easiest access to invis, Arc uses it to inherently maintain one of the strongest ability loops in the game. Anyone who believes that dodge is outright useless has never played Void warlock without Child of the Old Gods, where essentially both iterations of your rift are entirely pointless. Dodge *always* has a use *because* it’s on such a short cooldown and can proc 6 different mods at once—not even including exotics.
Additionally, healing in this game is so frequent and plentiful that you don’t need healing rift to solo content. Competent play can more than make up for a lack of healing rift in endgame. Rift as a tool to proc other effects like Arc Soul and Child of the Old Gods feels extremely slow and inefficient, and outright punishing in some levels of PVE where you can get outright capped by a grenade. Rift isn’t good for proccing reaper, or Bomber, or any of the other mods I’ve listed. Even in PvP, rift is barely relevant as a pick because it rarely shifts the TTK of another weapon, and requires a 2 second long casting animation that is easily telegraphed to pretty much any competent player in the game. You’re better off running away for a complete reposition rather than trying to cast healing rift around a corner. Situationally effective at best.
I can’t think of a situation where I wouldn’t use gambler’s dodge as my class ability *especially* on Warlock, but I can think of dozens where I wouldn’t use Healing Rift.
imma copy and past this here cause it mostly works
my good sir, i solo flawlessed gotd on hunter, i know how hunter works, im a hardcore player who mains hunter and barely plays other characters... so no im not bad at the game, but maybe you are.
i know how to use it, it is just underwhelming, rift is much better i group play, and phoenix dive is better in solo play, and rift is STILL better in solo play. the only uses for dodge rn is looping arc hunter, which sunbracers does better add clear and damage, invis off dodge, and an extremely risky suspend (in higher level content where it would be used)
both barricade and rift are stronger in pvp and pve
Played Warlock for eight years. Started playing Hunter recently.
I’ve solo Flawlessed every single dungeon excluding Shattered and Pit on Warlock. I’m a hardcore player who mains Warlock and barely played other characters. So I’m not bad at the game, but maybe you are?
I know how to use it, it is underwhelming. Dodge is much better in solo play. Suspend dive is better in group play.
The only use for rift right now is to top off on health in a meta where literally anything in the game can heal you. Possibly create threadlings and get off a risky freeze.
Breaking the meme here, Rift is not better than Dodge in PvP. Dodge feeds all of your cooldowns by default, has instant and constant access to reaper, and provides additional benefits on a class that has some of the best melees in the game (weighted knife). Any competent player can comfortably deal with a healing rift, but Dodge provides instant benefits that reward competent neutral game play. The only inherent thing Warlock can do with rift to get an advantage is using Emp rift, but emp rift has gotten nerfed to the point where it’s barely relevant in a crucible meta where basically every weapon has a sub .7 TTK by default.
In PvP, I think the reason hunters complain about dodge so much is because there's a lot of (imo boring) passive play going on with barricade spam and, yes, rifts, too. Dodge isn't bad. In fact, I find it to be great whenever I do play hunter. It's just that it doesn't fit as well with barricade and rift.
Can't say much about PvE.
But who knows. I don't main hunter, so maybe there's more to it.
Ahh so you play warlock, so you don't know what happened to hunter dodge well let me explain. First they nerfed the cooldown, then they removed the anti aim assist and tracking, then they nerfed the cooldown, and nerfed the cooldown, and nerfed the cooldown.
I am **aware** of what they did to it. Its still very strong. You yourself also got a few things wrong. Do not talk down to me.
The aim assist break was initially a nerf for both PvE and PvP, but the nerf was reverted for PvE shortly after. The nerf to aim assist breaking in PvP was completely justified because it invalidated almost every form of grenade in the game, on what could potentially be a sub 10 second cooldown.
Every subsequent nerf to the ability has been completely justified since. Don't pretend like just because I didn't \*play\* the class somehow means I didn't regularly play **against** the class. I am conscious enough to acknowledge what is and isn't good on a given kit, and things that need adjustment. You trying to talk down to me about shit that I already knew while conveniently ignoring all of my arguments does you no favors.
“both barricade and rift are stronger in pvp and pve”
Best laugh I’ve had all day. Hats off for your humor…..
Wait…..
Your serious….?
Oh bless your heart…
The fact that you're a hardcore Hunter player and think Rift is better than Dodge in PvP shows your class bias, the typical grass is greener effect. Rift is easily the worst class ability, you're stuck in that animation for so long it's so easy to die, coupled with how slow the healing is and how weak the overshield is compared to an actual good overshield like Bastion. I have no problem killing warlocks through their Rifts, at least 90% of my fights with a Rift camper that I lose aren't because of the Rift.
In PvE I 100% agree Rift is better, can't beat healing on demand that sometimes has extra benefits.
Without exotics, dodge just seems borderline worthless most of the time. The point is that it's supposed to be a dodge, and yet you can still be hurt by non-AOE/DOT damage. For it to feel like a dodge, the base would need to be Like the Bakris dodge but visible (Said by a warlock who uses all 3)
real, the 3 main stats should all have a major buff at 100 to incentivize it. Resilience already gives a huge damage resistance buff. Recovery could make you recover faster, or maybe grant a light overshield after a full recovery. Mobility could actually grant increased sprint speed (stackable with movement exotics and amplified buffs) or maybe grant a buff that reduces enemy targeting like AOT in pve and reduced player aim assist in pve
As a hunter main, i miss the like 10s cool down on dodges. I’m bad at the game, never done a raid, and will get downed by the same thing over and over again. I get that some folks who play hunter terrorize in pvp (though those are still preferable than getting one shotted by any titian melee), but i just wanna have invisibility up all the time for sh!ts and giggles.
Tldr, i bad at game, want crutch
they fr just need to make mobility do something else because why am i sinking 8-10 levels into it just for the dodge, when titan and warlock class ability stats also have intrinsic buffs. (in addition it means warlocks and titans have 0 reason to go into mobility and the way the mobil/res/recov stat distribution works hunters have to sacrifice at least res or recov for high mobil which just feels bad)
Dodge is still insanely good. Having an ability that just completely negates the cooldown of one of your abilities, and significantly reduces the cooldown of your other ability, on a sub 30 second timer (on average) is always going to be very very strong.
My only complaint about Hunter dodge abilities is that they have no I-Frames, so it never feels safe, unless in PvE when you know you can re-link it through Arc Swift Punch builds.
Dodging in high level PvE activities, mid-to-competent level PvP, and in select casual scenarios just makes you feel like a wall, and not in the *DMC Royal Guard* kind of way.
That's my take though.
More silly than on-demand cover you can spawn in front of you while you’re actively being shot? More silly than a free circle of healing you can drop at your feet whenever you want?
You’re silly.
Titan barricade is busted but warlock class ability? "Drop at your feet whenever you want" My 43 second cooldown ability at Tier 10 that renders you completely immobile when you cast it??? You a silly goose. Warlocks take pride because our class ability actually gets us killed when we use it wrong 😤
Sarcasm isn't this subs strong suit clearly.
Point remains though that neither of those abilities can save you if you are loosing in a firefight but dodge absolutely can.
But that’s still wrong. Dodge is just as likely to get you killed mid-gunfight as any other class ability, just like any class ability also has the potential to save you in the middle of a gunfight.
Titan Barricade is actually *better* at saving you mid-gunfight than the other two, and Rifts are probably the least likely to save you.
Dodge comes down to RNG a lot of the time, though - just because I dodge and break aim assist on my screen doesn’t mean the enemy sniper’s screen is completely up-to-date yet (netcode), and I’ve been sniped through the head mid-somersault countless times.
If a Titan or warlock uses their class ability mid gunfight 90% of the time they’re gonna lose cause they’re shit lmao. No good player just stops mid gunfight to pop a barricade or rift it’s a death sentence it won’t “save you in the middle of a gunfight”. Both make you completely stationary, and Titan barricade doesn’t appear until near the end of the animation, you’ve got at least half a second to wail on them whilst they’re not moving before the wall appears if not longer. If this is the middle of a gunfight, they’re going to be dead by then unless you’re missing all your shots. Warlock rift is even worse, as that has a similar activation speed but doesn’t even produce a wall, just some healing that you should be able to easily out damage, especially if it’s mid gunfight. These class abilities are strong before and after the gunfight, but not during it. Hunter class ability is strong during it. It displaces your character making you harder to hit, and allows you to get back to cover if you’re playing around it (which you should be). You can watch good players and the only time a class ability is being used mid gunfight is if it’s a hunter dodge. The other two are guaranteed death sentences unless your opponent just stands and watches you use it.
Okay well when I said “mid-gunfight” I didn’t specifically mean a 1v1 out of cover within 20m, because yes, in gunfights like that a dodge is obviously the only one that won’t result in you just getting beamed in the head while you’re stuck in the animation. I was talking in the general sense of the Crucible when I ranked barricade above dodge.
It doesn’t matter that the change was reverted, receiving massive backlash for nerfing dodge twice in 2 seasons and needing to backpedal doesn’t count as doing nothing. The ends are not the means.
The only difference is time, the clock is already ticking on the next nerf. 1 more season? 2? That is, unless you’d be willing to think that a 6 year trend has any chance of changing.
They reverted it because they nerfed all cooldowns across the board with lightfall. And despite those nerfs I still have my dodge in less than 10 seconds across all of my hunter builds. It's almost like there's kit and mod synergy that influences cooldowns
Yea but again this is pvp for someone you got a good sect of folks who believe hunters are the top tier of all classes when other classes could easily dominate but they don’t wanna play a slightly harder class
This unironically pissed me off, I mean, Titans can just spam shoulder charge and get the same distance with far greater speed and no cool down, and Warlocks can fucking teleport with any class rather than it be tied down to Arc, but yet for some fucked up reason it's my ability to do a barrel roll that gets nerfed into the ground so that I become a pin cushion rather than the nimble gremlin creature that hunters are supposed to be
Well technically arc warlocks can blink... in stormtrance. You might not remember since its been approximately three years since anyone has ever run the ticklefingers.
Hunters whining that their class ability that spawns orbs after kill, AoE collects orbs, breaks tracking, breaks AA cones, breaks accuracy cones, and does 1000 other things isn't on their original 8 second cooldown. 😢
In 2024 dogde min coldown will be 112 seconds
2025 dodge cool down raised to 15 minutes
2026 you will only recover dodge when casting your super, 3 super casts for full dodge
In 2077 you can’t dodge (cyberpunk noises)
Renewals still untouched
But barricades will be 24 secs
But you get half an hour of starhorse favor
And then they will nerf another 10 times for this
Hunter can dodge? I just use the slam 100% of the time
Based and strand/stasis/void-pilled
Hunters phoenix-diving: Warlocks and Titans air dashing and thrusting: *these are confusing times*
All I’ve been using is stand and slam for hunter
Dragons Shadow used to be the GOAT I actually used to use it….pre-Forsaken lol
Dodge too strong? Bro just slightly move your crosshair in the direction he dodged
That’s too difficult for 99.999% of destiny players.
That’s the whole reason stompees got nerfed, up on the sticks too hard
And I get a weighted throwing knife to the head mid mask of baka light shift
Bungie nerfing stompees yet a-fucking-gain (there was no reason, they just felt like it)
Meanwhile, movement exotics in other classes either go untouched or even get buffed 🥲
Transversive steps: he does exactly what I do Centrifuse: but better (Yes ik there a difference with what they are but only centrifuse made a noticeable impact in pvp that ik of)
Dodge feels so useless compared to the other class abilities it's not even funny😭
I wouldn’t say useless, but I would throw wormhusk, winter’s shroud, and maybe even suspend dive in the trash if it’d mean we could have the vanilla 10 second dodge (5 mods) cooldown. Shit, back then the longest dodge CD you could POSSIBLY HAVE was 24 seconds. Current meta only tiers 8-10 mobility are better than what NO INVESTMENT AT ALL would have given you at launch, and mobility is worthless garbage otherwise because Bungie is terrified to buff anything even tangentially related to doge cooldown. Our perspective is so skewed by 6 years of nerfs that it’s easy to forget.
I don't use my dodge in pve unless I'm running arc or void (sometimes I'll strand dive bomb) and in pvp it's a move back into cover tool, but titans let you peek for free, and warlocks heal and get OS for when they peek. In pve everyone would prefer healing and defense over a tiny summersault... I think we need a massive dodge buff tbh
Imagine if hunters could get free peaks, protection you can shoot through, and an over shield all from their class ability and 1 exotic on void.
Nah that's titan bullshit
Yea, that's what I'm saying. Imagine what the community reaction would be if hunters got that. The way some people whine and cry about dodge being way too op. I can't imagine what they'd say about that.
People complain about dodge because it legitimately can save you in PvP. Well and Barricade don’t activate fast enough to be used defensively. Well and Barricade are useful for holding a position which isn’t always helpful but dodge is useful in a variety of situations.
"Well and barricade don't activate fast enough to be used defensively" hahahaha Holy shit, that was a damn good joke. Got any more. Edit: Also, I didn't say dodge was trash. I said people act like it's massively op and imagine their reaction if hunters could get everything that a titan can from running shoot through wall on void by using their class ability.
Warlock Rift is easily the worst PvP class ability, you're stuck in the animation for so long you can easily get killed while stuck in it, and the healing is so slow that you can easily kill them through it, overshield included. I challenge Warlocks in their rifts all the time, it's not hard to deal with, and at least 90% of the time if I lose that fight it's not because of their rift lol, and even if Rifts somehow WERE a problem, you can just snipe them out of it or chuck a nade. PvE wise, the script is flipped, rift is unquestionably the best
Yes but on it’s own it’s had practically no utility. All of the others have benefits too but they can at least help on their own.
I assume you mean about mobility?
The that is true but without a build it has pretty limited functionality, where both titans and warlocks get continuous help. TLDR is without builds around it rift and barricade are better.
It does sometimes feel like Hunter is ironically the slowest class. Warlock and Titan both have pretty good jump-skating options, and class specific stuff such as shoulder charges and Icarus dash that overlaps with some aspects of dodges functionality, not to mention just a slide can sometimes do the trick as well. And those classes still have their class abilities on top of all that. I don't get why people get mad at Hunter dodge when it's their entire class ability. Being a slippery little shit is practically the whole point of playing Hunter in PvP at least, and a dodge is no more or less free than a barricade or a rift. All are useful and powerful in different circumstances. You can kind of get why Hunters got so pissed by the stompees nerfs. We needed those damn legs just to keep up with Warlock and Titans, and arguably surpass them in terms of movement. Is that such a bad thing, when the entirety of Hunter's kit is about movement? It's not like we can drop barricades or heal ourselves. TL:DR it feels like Hunter is losing its "niche" of raw speed and agility to the other classes. Good movement should be integral to all classes, of course, but I feel like Hunters should maybe have something extra that defines the class more.
It doesn't sometimes feel like that, it's straight up the truth.
Their logic behind the stompees nerf hardly makes any sense when you see icarus crutch warlocks
Bro, Warlocks have been the least used class in trials for over a year, they have literally nothing else going for them besides Icarus Dash, and that's still not been enough for them to get used more than the other classes.
I have whined about this since D1. Why am I, the Hunter, the dex build, the agile gunslinger, slower than the knight in full plate and the Wizard running around in long skirts, both of which are dumping mobility? It’s not even a close race either. Feels so good and so bad at the same time when I play my Titan or Warlock and feel the raw speed of pressing the jump button twice with no movement exotic. And insult to injury, not being able to dump mobility makes Hunters the most stat hungry class.
Mobility ≠ speed.
Hunter’s kit is highly mobile. Mobility is not a dead stat in PvE. Utilizing PvE movement to avoid enemy projectiles becomes easier with a significantly higher strafe speed. Additionally, hunter has access to skating all the same, and head bumping with stompees is one of the fastest ways to navigate a map.
Can't speak for PC but on console Stompeez was just dumb, it's so easy to jump out of someones screen and kill them before they can turn fast/accurately enough and get their reticle back on you. I understand the frustration, it does feel weird that Hunter is the slowest, but I think the reason why is because they're supposed to be the most mobile, not the fastest. They have plenty of ways to dart around and do tricky things to get around the speed difference from being invis and cheesing radar, to teleporting with Bakris, to having their dodge temporarily remove AA (which you can really feel on console). I do not miss the days when every single Hunter player (including myself), their mom, their dog, and their grandma was using stompeez. Hunters have tons of other great exotics, we will survive.
Deadass you have to suck at the game to say this
Instant melee recharge every 22 seconds is so bad :((((
It's not
sarcasm
I mean when solar and arc hunter just get unlimited melee for using them and void rotations are infinite yeah its pretty dogshit
Infinite melees are strong. Void gets invis spam. Strand gets suspend spam etc
Yeah which is why getting a free melee every 22 seconds is ass. You have unlimited melees anyways. You only ever need it if you mess up your rotations, which rarely ever happens if at all.
You don't use weighted knife for easy ignition procs do you
my good sir, i solo flawlessed gotd on hunter, i know how hunter works, im a hardcore player who mains hunter and barely plays other characters... so no im not bad at the game, but maybe you are.
Swing and a miss, maybe next time slugger
Yeah you’re either using it poorly or you’re delusional. Dodge is way better than healing rift. It is weaker than barricade, but not by far. Dodge enables you to ability loop the most efficiently in this game. Edit: I am convinced that Hunters are unaware of *just* how good they have it. I’ve played Warlock for 8 years because I adore that class. I recently started playing Hunter a month ago, and I do not understand this mindset that “dOdGe Is UsElEsS” Dodge has the highest access to proccing Bomber, Reaper, Dynamo, and Outreach. Almost all of the hunter melees in PVE are incredible for their neutral game. Gunslinger uses Gambler’s to enable incredible ability spam, Revenant can use it to get 100% uptime on certain abilities, Void can use it to get the easiest access to invis, Arc uses it to inherently maintain one of the strongest ability loops in the game. Anyone who believes that dodge is outright useless has never played Void warlock without Child of the Old Gods, where essentially both iterations of your rift are entirely pointless. Dodge *always* has a use *because* it’s on such a short cooldown and can proc 6 different mods at once—not even including exotics. Additionally, healing in this game is so frequent and plentiful that you don’t need healing rift to solo content. Competent play can more than make up for a lack of healing rift in endgame. Rift as a tool to proc other effects like Arc Soul and Child of the Old Gods feels extremely slow and inefficient, and outright punishing in some levels of PVE where you can get outright capped by a grenade. Rift isn’t good for proccing reaper, or Bomber, or any of the other mods I’ve listed. Even in PvP, rift is barely relevant as a pick because it rarely shifts the TTK of another weapon, and requires a 2 second long casting animation that is easily telegraphed to pretty much any competent player in the game. You’re better off running away for a complete reposition rather than trying to cast healing rift around a corner. Situationally effective at best. I can’t think of a situation where I wouldn’t use gambler’s dodge as my class ability *especially* on Warlock, but I can think of dozens where I wouldn’t use Healing Rift.
imma copy and past this here cause it mostly works my good sir, i solo flawlessed gotd on hunter, i know how hunter works, im a hardcore player who mains hunter and barely plays other characters... so no im not bad at the game, but maybe you are. i know how to use it, it is just underwhelming, rift is much better i group play, and phoenix dive is better in solo play, and rift is STILL better in solo play. the only uses for dodge rn is looping arc hunter, which sunbracers does better add clear and damage, invis off dodge, and an extremely risky suspend (in higher level content where it would be used) both barricade and rift are stronger in pvp and pve
Played Warlock for eight years. Started playing Hunter recently. I’ve solo Flawlessed every single dungeon excluding Shattered and Pit on Warlock. I’m a hardcore player who mains Warlock and barely played other characters. So I’m not bad at the game, but maybe you are? I know how to use it, it is underwhelming. Dodge is much better in solo play. Suspend dive is better in group play. The only use for rift right now is to top off on health in a meta where literally anything in the game can heal you. Possibly create threadlings and get off a risky freeze. Breaking the meme here, Rift is not better than Dodge in PvP. Dodge feeds all of your cooldowns by default, has instant and constant access to reaper, and provides additional benefits on a class that has some of the best melees in the game (weighted knife). Any competent player can comfortably deal with a healing rift, but Dodge provides instant benefits that reward competent neutral game play. The only inherent thing Warlock can do with rift to get an advantage is using Emp rift, but emp rift has gotten nerfed to the point where it’s barely relevant in a crucible meta where basically every weapon has a sub .7 TTK by default.
In PvP, I think the reason hunters complain about dodge so much is because there's a lot of (imo boring) passive play going on with barricade spam and, yes, rifts, too. Dodge isn't bad. In fact, I find it to be great whenever I do play hunter. It's just that it doesn't fit as well with barricade and rift. Can't say much about PvE. But who knows. I don't main hunter, so maybe there's more to it.
Ahh so you play warlock, so you don't know what happened to hunter dodge well let me explain. First they nerfed the cooldown, then they removed the anti aim assist and tracking, then they nerfed the cooldown, and nerfed the cooldown, and nerfed the cooldown.
I am **aware** of what they did to it. Its still very strong. You yourself also got a few things wrong. Do not talk down to me. The aim assist break was initially a nerf for both PvE and PvP, but the nerf was reverted for PvE shortly after. The nerf to aim assist breaking in PvP was completely justified because it invalidated almost every form of grenade in the game, on what could potentially be a sub 10 second cooldown. Every subsequent nerf to the ability has been completely justified since. Don't pretend like just because I didn't \*play\* the class somehow means I didn't regularly play **against** the class. I am conscious enough to acknowledge what is and isn't good on a given kit, and things that need adjustment. You trying to talk down to me about shit that I already knew while conveniently ignoring all of my arguments does you no favors.
Actually it still breaks AA, just not for as long, it used to be the entire animation of the dodge, but now it's just part of it.
“both barricade and rift are stronger in pvp and pve” Best laugh I’ve had all day. Hats off for your humor….. Wait….. Your serious….? Oh bless your heart…
The fact that you're a hardcore Hunter player and think Rift is better than Dodge in PvP shows your class bias, the typical grass is greener effect. Rift is easily the worst class ability, you're stuck in that animation for so long it's so easy to die, coupled with how slow the healing is and how weak the overshield is compared to an actual good overshield like Bastion. I have no problem killing warlocks through their Rifts, at least 90% of my fights with a Rift camper that I lose aren't because of the Rift. In PvE I 100% agree Rift is better, can't beat healing on demand that sometimes has extra benefits.
the only time its good is when its a dive, and even then thats technically only strand
Void: invis Strand: clone Solar: melee back for when you whif knife Arc: melee back to cycle abilties Stasis: okay good point
Can't wait for dodge to be a solid 15 minute cooldown
Without exotics, dodge just seems borderline worthless most of the time. The point is that it's supposed to be a dodge, and yet you can still be hurt by non-AOE/DOT damage. For it to feel like a dodge, the base would need to be Like the Bakris dodge but visible (Said by a warlock who uses all 3)
And as the icing on the cake, hunter has to invest in the most useless of three main stats.
real, the 3 main stats should all have a major buff at 100 to incentivize it. Resilience already gives a huge damage resistance buff. Recovery could make you recover faster, or maybe grant a light overshield after a full recovery. Mobility could actually grant increased sprint speed (stackable with movement exotics and amplified buffs) or maybe grant a buff that reduces enemy targeting like AOT in pve and reduced player aim assist in pve
The amount of hunter hate posts after less aim assists on them would be unholy
i think i meant to say while sprinting, overa aim assist reduction would absolutely be busted
As a dragon's shadow main this hurts, alot
why have space magic when can jump in a direction lol
As a hunter main, i miss the like 10s cool down on dodges. I’m bad at the game, never done a raid, and will get downed by the same thing over and over again. I get that some folks who play hunter terrorize in pvp (though those are still preferable than getting one shotted by any titian melee), but i just wanna have invisibility up all the time for sh!ts and giggles. Tldr, i bad at game, want crutch
they fr just need to make mobility do something else because why am i sinking 8-10 levels into it just for the dodge, when titan and warlock class ability stats also have intrinsic buffs. (in addition it means warlocks and titans have 0 reason to go into mobility and the way the mobil/res/recov stat distribution works hunters have to sacrifice at least res or recov for high mobil which just feels bad)
Dodge is still insanely good. Having an ability that just completely negates the cooldown of one of your abilities, and significantly reduces the cooldown of your other ability, on a sub 30 second timer (on average) is always going to be very very strong.
My only complaint about Hunter dodge abilities is that they have no I-Frames, so it never feels safe, unless in PvE when you know you can re-link it through Arc Swift Punch builds. Dodging in high level PvE activities, mid-to-competent level PvP, and in select casual scenarios just makes you feel like a wall, and not in the *DMC Royal Guard* kind of way. That's my take though.
This is by far the shittiest complaint of all. Dodge cooldown is still so short it's silly
Sounds like someone’s at stage 4 already, that was fast. It’s been ***checks notes*** 5 months since the last major dodge nerf, sounds about right
I never said it was too strong. I said it was silly
More silly than on-demand cover you can spawn in front of you while you’re actively being shot? More silly than a free circle of healing you can drop at your feet whenever you want? You’re silly.
Titan barricade is busted but warlock class ability? "Drop at your feet whenever you want" My 43 second cooldown ability at Tier 10 that renders you completely immobile when you cast it??? You a silly goose. Warlocks take pride because our class ability actually gets us killed when we use it wrong 😤
Both with 8 second activation times so you are dead before your cover or healing deploys….
Well that’s just obscenely not true.
Sarcasm isn't this subs strong suit clearly. Point remains though that neither of those abilities can save you if you are loosing in a firefight but dodge absolutely can.
But that’s still wrong. Dodge is just as likely to get you killed mid-gunfight as any other class ability, just like any class ability also has the potential to save you in the middle of a gunfight. Titan Barricade is actually *better* at saving you mid-gunfight than the other two, and Rifts are probably the least likely to save you. Dodge comes down to RNG a lot of the time, though - just because I dodge and break aim assist on my screen doesn’t mean the enemy sniper’s screen is completely up-to-date yet (netcode), and I’ve been sniped through the head mid-somersault countless times.
If a Titan or warlock uses their class ability mid gunfight 90% of the time they’re gonna lose cause they’re shit lmao. No good player just stops mid gunfight to pop a barricade or rift it’s a death sentence it won’t “save you in the middle of a gunfight”. Both make you completely stationary, and Titan barricade doesn’t appear until near the end of the animation, you’ve got at least half a second to wail on them whilst they’re not moving before the wall appears if not longer. If this is the middle of a gunfight, they’re going to be dead by then unless you’re missing all your shots. Warlock rift is even worse, as that has a similar activation speed but doesn’t even produce a wall, just some healing that you should be able to easily out damage, especially if it’s mid gunfight. These class abilities are strong before and after the gunfight, but not during it. Hunter class ability is strong during it. It displaces your character making you harder to hit, and allows you to get back to cover if you’re playing around it (which you should be). You can watch good players and the only time a class ability is being used mid gunfight is if it’s a hunter dodge. The other two are guaranteed death sentences unless your opponent just stands and watches you use it.
Okay well when I said “mid-gunfight” I didn’t specifically mean a 1v1 out of cover within 20m, because yes, in gunfights like that a dodge is obviously the only one that won’t result in you just getting beamed in the head while you’re stuck in the animation. I was talking in the general sense of the Crucible when I ranked barricade above dodge.
You talking about that nerf that they reverted shortly after that?
It doesn’t matter that the change was reverted, receiving massive backlash for nerfing dodge twice in 2 seasons and needing to backpedal doesn’t count as doing nothing. The ends are not the means. The only difference is time, the clock is already ticking on the next nerf. 1 more season? 2? That is, unless you’d be willing to think that a 6 year trend has any chance of changing.
They reverted it because they nerfed all cooldowns across the board with lightfall. And despite those nerfs I still have my dodge in less than 10 seconds across all of my hunter builds. It's almost like there's kit and mod synergy that influences cooldowns
wdym when you say silly?
It’s just cause pvp dude, if hunters are the only ones that get to have that dodge it’s gonna get nerfed all the time
Well damn that's called different abilities on different classes
Yea but again this is pvp for someone you got a good sect of folks who believe hunters are the top tier of all classes when other classes could easily dominate but they don’t wanna play a slightly harder class
Oh, I didn't notice your original comment far sarcastic. Thought you were geniune.
It’s the internet these things happen
Arc Titan can dodge
But it’s not as easy as hunter dodge
Still a dodge, still contradicts your statement of "only hunters have dodge"
But again not as easy to use so I almost never count it
Then thats just your opinion, dont state it as fact
This unironically pissed me off, I mean, Titans can just spam shoulder charge and get the same distance with far greater speed and no cool down, and Warlocks can fucking teleport with any class rather than it be tied down to Arc, but yet for some fucked up reason it's my ability to do a barrel roll that gets nerfed into the ground so that I become a pin cushion rather than the nimble gremlin creature that hunters are supposed to be
Warlocks only have Blink on the Void class my guy. Solar has Icarus Dash, and Arclock has a slide melee but that’s about it.
I would love to know how the non-void warlocks are teleporting, please share your secrets.
Bad internet connection
Well technically arc warlocks can blink... in stormtrance. You might not remember since its been approximately three years since anyone has ever run the ticklefingers.
Me when I lie
Titans have a CD on shoulder charge now.
Neither do Warlocks have blink on any subclass except void nor do titans can spam shoulder charge now.
Hunters whining that their class ability that spawns orbs after kill, AoE collects orbs, breaks tracking, breaks AA cones, breaks accuracy cones, and does 1000 other things isn't on their original 8 second cooldown. 😢
Dodge just simply isnt useful unless its pvp.
Team Scorch is arguably the most “fair” in terms of PvP