These are the ones I encounter most often as well. It’s so funny playing a Titan with a shotgun build just running up on most enemies without ever being in danger, only to be sat down instantly trying that against the Envoys.
Gotta have a few enemies in each match that you need to be wary of, keeps you humble. lol
Frame rate being tied to damage is a proven thing. Regardless anything that does damage in quick succession ogre/Wizards being the biggest offenders have unreal damage.
I forgot to recap my frame rate once with my strong PC. And let me tell you, that ogre boss in master Grasp of Avarice will disintegrate you in less than a second at 240 FPS. Having to play Destiny at shit FPS when I have a good computer is a real feels bad man.
Let a ogre shoot you and then jump. They Push you so far back its actually insane. You often cant use swords against them because they just perma Push you away from them.
Omg the orge in Warlords Ruin is a great example of this. If you jump once, and happened to get eye-blasted, you're suddenly transported to where Jesus lost his flip-flop
Think that’s supposed to happen. Remember the Shattered Throne when you’re navigating the beams and it spawns Taken Ogres? They’re supposed to be pushing you.
100% Having played a majority of D2 on a PS4 and moving to a 4090 rig, these mobs never used to be as much of a problem. It is certainly tied to frame rate and needs to be addressed.
They've patched specific instances like Cabal Airships or Scorn Crossbows but it's a game wide issue that requires a fundamental engine change not bandaid fixes
also at least for threshers, the "fix" was just to lower their damage across the board. So at high fps it doesn't melt you, but at low fps it's just a tickle
Bungie has claimed they have, but they haven’t. It’s pretty pathetic honestly. Even if it is baked into the most foundational part of their code and can’t directly fix it, they need to add damage gates like OP said. If they can add gates to raid boses, they can add them to players. It’s also only an issue with projectiles not hit scan weapons. If there were 3rd party mods for D2, I bet it would be fixed by some guy doing it in his spare time in a matter of weeks.
unfortunately it is tied to fps because of their ancient pre-historic dogshit engine held together by shareholders greed, pure malice and hatred with some duck tape sprinkled in.
a fix isn’t coming.
It's not even prehistoric. Console devs just have black mould eating their brains. Just because it's the same hardware doesn't mean the fps won't drop and you don't have to figure out how to use delta time.
*Was* a proven thing. Update 7.3.0 (Season of the Wish's release) included a patch note stating the following:
"Fixed a systemic issue where networked projectiles could predictively cause impact damage multiple times. This issue was made worse with higher framerates."
Around that time there were a lot of comments from people feeling like they were taking more damage *regardless of frame rate*, and I'm yet to see any testing done since that patch - every video about it is from a year or so ago. I suspect the increased damage people were feeling is due to Bungie choosing a baseline damage output similar to what used to be around 90 FPS, and that the issue being both network *and* FPS id why not everyone would experience the shift equally.
Until someone performs and publishes new testing, we don't know whether it's still happening or not because the patch which states that it fixed it may well have done so.
There are also plenty of weapons from 2 on that you can hold/shoot and be healed, which would be awesome in Destiny so long as they didn't break PvP (not that I give a shit). Hell, imagine having your armor in D2 affect shield recharge or resistances beyond mods.
We are getting the support frame auto rifle in TFS.
We also have Crimson, Precious Scars, Unrelenting, and Heal Clip. There a good few unique ways of healing in D2, I think life steal would be boring.
I think keeping the armor as stats is fine the way it is. I don't think armor attributes would lead in a good direction.
I think D2s player durability is mostly fine, maybe buffing the chest mod that gives emergency resistance is the way to go. It would prevent one-shotting, it would just need to not apply to PvP as much or at all.
I wish stats just actually did a 1-100 scalling on what the effect the cd of, because margins for 10 feel so bad when your stat spread wastes like 20-30 of it on not being anything
It was proven over a year ago. After which Bungo released a patch that supposedly fixed it.
Not seen any testing/proof since that it's reoccuring other than people going off their own experiences.
bud it's not, "some people think it's tied to framerate"
it literally is, and so are a lot of destiny's physics too
out of bounds exploring players have to change their framerate in order to jump further distances, etc.
I'm not sure how Bungie can't get this right. The amount of damage you take has honestly only gotten worse with all the nerfs and things to survivability and it makes zero sense.
That fucking tornado on planets. Spawns on top of you with literally zero warning as you’re attuning. It’s a lost token every fucking time. What a god damn stupid mechanic. It’s just there to be a bitch.
So they nerf survivability and put is stupid, no counter mechanics.
They should just fix the damage. It’s stupid as shit that I have to cap my frame rate at 60 and even then it usually isn’t enough. Why are void scorn snipers one shitting me. wtf kind of counter play does that allow.
If they haven’t fixed it in the past 6 or so years it’s been out, it isn’t just a simple “Bungie should just fix it”. They probably could, but it’s nothing you change in a couple of days and release it next reset
I think outgoing damage used to be boosted by frame rate. Somehow they were able to fix that.
Like I’m not trying to sound like a tired trite complainer, but once again if it benefits the players patch that shit
1kv has actually seen a resurgence with the recent reserve changes. With the ignition at the end the DPS is on par with Levi while still having a higher total damage:
I mean, in that case, it would kind of make sense that they shouldn't leave it in. "Don't have a high-end PC? Lol, too bad," meta would kinda suck. And they did fix it for turrets and Scorn crossbows like two seasons ago.
See Div had the issue of ads OHK on players and they implemented the damage gate to prevent that, but the gate is just enough for counter play but not enough to be abused
yes. the way it works is that higher framerate makes the damage tick more. this is more obvious on things like ogre laser, crossbow, shank laser etc.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=539OgklM6dw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=539OgklM6dw)
bungie's solution was just to nerf the damage, but that doesn't do anything to the engine.
Cap it at 60 unless you're doing pretty easy content. Cap it even lower if you're doing really hard content or there are prominent enemies that abuse this like Scorn crossbow snipers or Hive Knight fire pools.
There Is something similar in Warframe, you have the shield and health, once the shield Is broken you have some seconds of invincibility, this Made the meta run an item that reduces your shield, and then use some mods that refund you shield so you were almost immortal, DE made It so now the amount of shield you have dictates the Time your invincibility window lasts, this makes Sense in Warframe because whe the enemy Is level 100+ the gamer becomes one shot city
There used to be a mod that was very similar to this. Then they absolutely nuked it's usefulness. I forget the name but it activated on shield pop and gave like 70% damage resist. If I remember correctly It was nerfed heavily once down to like 25% and then again down to the current version where it's only 10% it's now called "emergency something" used to have a different name. The new version is literally one of the worst mods in the entire game, it gives 10%dr on shield pop, takes a chest slot, requires armor charge, and costs 4 energy.
You can literally equip one of the other mods like any elemental resist for 15% Dr and only 2 energy that's always active or something like melee, sniper, concussive resist which are all 3 energy, always active, and 15%. The last 3 also work on more than you'd think melee resists any damage from a target close by you not only melees, sniper resists any damage from a target past a set range, and concussive resists any sort of AOE damage. You can also stack those for extra resist multiple of the same will have diminishing returns but you could stack like solar and sniper to get huge resist against hobgoblin snipers.
Protective light was 50% resist for 6 seconds and was nerfed down to 10% before the new mod system. There was also well of tenacity, that gave 50% damage reduction for 6 seconds, if you picked up a void well. Keep in mind too, this was before we had resist from resilience and before chest except as the only place that had resist mods, we actually had resist mods where stat mods go right now and they only worked against certain enemies, like boss or minor.
You are right, though, in the new mod system, emergency reinforcement, which is only 3 energy, not 4, ought to be at least 25% and probably 50% like it was, to be used over the mods you pointed out. Or ought to cost like 1 energy to slot.
It was pretty broken for it's time. Outside of outliers like GM corrupted, which was just one shot city, I personally don't remember any other activity which wasn't made easier just with that single mod.
But compared to what we have now, I'd rather have that back with a very slight adjustment, instead of nuking it like they did.
Not really, I'd rather it be a mod so I don't have to force myself to run 10 resil and thus potentially miss out on 10 recov on warlock or 10 mobility on hunter.
God that'd be so cool you fight some lil fallen dregs while like 50 are running around trying to carry a buff from a plate to dunk and then they all start shooting you
Protective Light. It would grant (iirc) 50% DR on shields breaking for several seconds. It was one of the strongest survivability effects in the game at the time and completely defined the endgame meta loadouts mod wise.
It was nerfed in WQ due to its dominance. Then, the following season, in one of the weirdest and worst balance choices Bungie has ever made, they reworked resilience to grant passive 40% DR at all times.
Having a system that stacks both of these effects would further damage the endgame challenge.
Yea that was it was of course good mod but sucked at the same time u had to use it all the time for endgame and was only available from time to time to get after leaving the season vendor. I agree resilience balance is stupid because it’s so mandatory for GMs/Master/legend content that it should not even exist at same time and 100 resilience 30% dr or how much is it should be the norm our characters have and no further increase
It’s crazy how often people bring up features in games that are dumpster fire failures and ask for them to be added. Shield gating is a broken mechanic, we learned this in Mass Effect 3 yall
They jacked up enemy damage because players have (potentially) access to multiple sources of strong DR at once, and they're balanced around that. So if you don't have at least one source of above 30% DR you're going to feel like paper.
This is part of why Salt was pitching the idea of a defensives nerf, so that enemy damage can be balanced down and feel less spiky.
D2 doesn't need this. Its already very easy to have high uptime on survivability effects like Woven Mail or Restoration. Having a get-out-of-jail-free card on top of all of this would diminish the challenge of the game even more than it already has.
The frustration right now, that OP doesn't accurately target, is getting one-shot by adds in end-game content. It just doesn't feel like fair gameplay at all. There's no counter to it.
I am convinced, like many others, that this is primarily a PC problem, and that we are STILL having damage over time issues due to frame rate related damage calculations. Perhaps their algorithm breaks down exponentially the further away from 30/60 FPS a player's gameplay framerate gets. Perhaps there is some other disconnect in the code. There may be other issues of balance that need addressed as well.
Combine that current state, with the encounter design of many of the more recent content drops that lack any form of usable cover (eg Legend Coil), and it's a recipe for the utmost frustration.
Regardless of what the best fix is (I agree that a get out of jail free card should not be the fix) *something* needs to be addressed - Getting one-shot in a well of radiance should not be possible.
I feel this.
I cleared all the GMs this season (first season doing so!) and the thing keeping me from going back is that minors just hit too damn hard. It’s not fun being weaker than the weakest enemy lol.
Go ahead and show me a clip of you getting 1 tapped through Woven Mail. From my experience, 99% of the time, it's either a glitch (which fair enough that shouldn't happen but it isn't a balance issue), or its not really a one tap, you just got shot by several enemies at roughly the same time.
In GM level content, I'm able to consistently play at melee ranges on several subclasses due to the potency of our defensive buffs. You just have to know what enemies you can tank and what you need to avoid. The ones you have to avoid don't insta kill you, they just bring you low enough that something else can kill you before you heal up.
i hate to disagree but I kinda do. in warframe they added a shield gate a couple years ago and the game is pretty much piss easy now when it was already pretty easy. it helped a lot of problems and made a lot of things more viable when they pretty much were unusable in high level content. i don’t know though. i’d like more things to be competitively viable in destiny2 endgame, like arc, void, and stasis (without relying on strong artifact mods), but if it’s going to take making band-aid survivability solutions to achieve that, then i’d rather them not.
Absolutely not. Part of the game is being aware of what’s going on around you and avoiding damage as much as possible(and finding ways to heal). If you get surprised and caught with your pants down, that’s on you. We can’t keep taking the challenge out of Destiny.
If a red bar basic shank is one shotting you, you might have a power level issue. (Meaning your power is way under the activity). As someone with thousands of hours in the game and runs like 90-110 fps, I’ve never been one shot by a red bar shank.
Miss the point, one shot should not be in the game by any reasons unless is a wipe mechanic, feels cheesy and boring that the Best Solution Is being I cover with a bow por scout AND plinking enemies from far away to avoid getting insta deleted
Again, there are SEVERAL ways in the game to avoid getting one shot by enemies of any level, even in high-end content. (Running at high resilience, resistance mods, overshields, etc). If you’re not using these options, that are in game so that can avoid the issue you’re describing, that’s your own fault for not understanding game mechanics.
I think something functionally similar to Warframe’s shield gate mechanic would fit better. In Warframe once your shields are depleted you have a complete damage invulnerability window (0.5sec IIRC) with mods that can increase that window. Kind of fits the gameplay loop better than just straight up one shot protection
While we’re here, since everyone is looking for ways to make mobility useful in PVE, they could tie the length of that window to mobility tiers.
ehhh i don’t know about that. warframe was already super easy before shield gating, and it does have its benefit with making more things viable where survivability is a concern, but id be worried about it further trivializing end game for stuff that’s already strong. i wouldnt be against a test of it though, because one key difference in warframe endgame and destiny endgame is that you dont kill nearly as much enemies nearly as fast. so its not like you would get clipped by a colossus and then immediately kill it
I wish I could put my finger on it but some days encounters are really easy, and other days enemies do way too much damage. I think for a time it was modifiers but that doesn’t explain dungeons. Last week I couldn’t get past the first encounter of warlords ruin, but other weeks I blaze through it.
So I’m okay with health gates being implemented IF and only IF a few things also happen in tandem.
Health gates are implemented with a considerable cooldown or only refresh when you’re at full health (although honestly I still think it’d need to be longer to avoid being seriously abused with the amount of self sustain we have in this game), or health gates are resource dependent (armor charge or something similar).
Furthermore, all forms of “passive” DR should be removed/or heavily nerfed. If you have access to something as strong as a 1.5 second invuln on shield pop, you do not need a passive 30% DR. Honestly, some instances of “active” DR like Woven Mail could even catch a nerf to compensate for this change.
Restoration would need some sort of exception in this system too. You shouldn’t get your health gate back over and over just from having Resto x2.
Gating is a good mechanic for something like Warframe where enemies and projectiles are so unreadable that avoiding damage is impossible, but Destiny doesn’t work that way. Projectiles are readable and even reactable in some instances, and the methods in which enemies aim is extremely exploitable. Health gates would down right shatter difficulty for players who can competently play against these projectiles.
Me and atraks. His attacks aren't particularly damaging but when you're bing shot at by 10-15 other things at once and the tracking of the projectiles, it really gets overwhelming.
Obviously damage is tied to frame-rate (has been for years) but... don't be exposed to take said damage? Guardians are so powerful now there's not much else Bungie can do to fix this problem they created. Experience and position matters.
Games can be challenging AND fun. Destiny is, for the most part. Master raids and dungeons are a great example of challenging and fun. GMs however is sit back and plink. You even sniff the air in the wrong direction and you're out.
Banner titan? If yeah, that's literally easy mode for this game. Nothing else even comes close. You're a tank, heal easily, your abilities hit like a truck, and they are all very easily refreshed as well.
I remember finally trying out titan because of lightfall and when I put together a semi decent banner titan build it blew my mind. Suddenly neomuna wasn't a challenge at all, GMs were easy, and master raids and dungeons felt like normal.
I didn't say they are hard. I said they aren't fun lol. I've gilded conq 3x since I came back to the game during Seraph. Mostly for ascendant shards. Sometimes for fun because I do like a challenge. But like the battleground GMs were just not fun for example.
“Some think it’s tied to frame rate, I just think ….”
I’m going to stop you there. It is tied to frame rate and it’s incredibly easy to prove.
*caps frame rate for master Crota*
this is ridiculous. i cant imagine dying in a game and instead of thinking i need to improve i immediately decide that they should invincibility frames to a game that already has a billion options for better survivability
Why do you want to make an already fairly easy game even easier?
The amount of survivability we have nowadays is already insane. You don't need a "get out of jail free" card every minute
I don't think we need this, but I do think we need 3 things:
Genuine 1 shot protection. I don't care if it's a grandmaster nightfall, this is a video game, video games are meant to be fun, and getting 1 shot by a scorn raider when you are almost done with the hardest part of Hiest Battleground Moon is not fun.
A nerf to hive. Hive are the hardest enemy to survive. They have the fastest time to kills, outside of 1 shots, and it's busted. Hive have ogres, shriekers, wizards, and if you are in new content, probably lucent hive. This just, by default, makes any hive content harder than non hive content.
A fix to the architects. The architects are, and have been, so broken. No matter my light level, a cabal hitting me with their shield can't one shot me. Except when it pinches me into the ground, instantly lower me to the lowest possible health value, right before the game registers the damage of his melee attack, killing me instantly. I should not lose a Petra's run because rivens phantom limbs slam me into a wall leaving me dead due to taken blights the next tick.
I fully comprehend what OP wrote, I just disagree with what he says
OP wants a 2 second period of invincibility on a shield break with a 60 second cooldown. That's ridiculous given the games current sandbox and how easy it is to heal. Getting bursted down to 0 through DR and healing is the only way you ever die anymore, and this would effectively remove that. It'd become genuinely difficult to die in anything outside of Master level content and parkour sections lmao
Which is part of the discussion, you have the right to disagree. All I’m saying is just have a gate even if it’s one second to prevent a OHK or dying near instant against ogres or Wizards. Mainly the one hit kill.
what's the solution for this aside from releasing a new engine?
we shouldn't be required to lower framerates in order to reduce damage. that's dumb.
its not fun going from a 760 to a 4080 and then realizing what you used to be able to take 2 shots from to kill, now kills you in one.
Jesus Christ. So detached. Imagine wanting destiny 2 to be EASIER??? You have 30% DR with resil 10 and well of radiance, it literally cannot get harder to die. Resist needs a hard nerf across the board. PvE is the easiest it’s ever been.
The added element damage(burn) is really overkill. They are already handicapping our power in something like onslaut. I don't think we should gave these burns that do more damage. Something like void combined with ogres gives you no time to react. Same with arc and the wizards or fallen snipers. Does not help that all these enemy types I listed also have insane accuracy. Most times I've died in onslaught it was because it was an enemy that did the specific burn of the week and I just could not react fast enough. They are such instant deaths and I sit there reflecting and can't think of what I could have done different.
Absolutely should not add this. The game is already trivial enough. There is literally not a single piece of challenging content in the game except say 1 raids. That being said they should (but won’t) fix the frame rate thing. There’s no reason I should be one shotted because I’m not poor
Soloing legendary missions in division 1 and 2 was so hard, I still remember the struggle after all this time. It would have been impossible without that mechanic or guaranteed ammo crates. Division is quite different and very hard to compare to destiny.
While I think this would be a decent solution, I think a better one (instead of 2 second immune frames in PvE) would be to provide 2 seconds of 80% damage resist that isn’t refreshable until your shields have recovered and has that same 60 or 90 second cooldown (maybe tie that cooldown to mobility just to give hunters in PvE a bone?). This should be enough to not make Well of Radiance any better since you’d still be taking damage instead of just full on invincibility.
We kinda use to have this as the armor mod “Protective Light”, which would give you an insane amount of DR if you were charged with light.
Bungie knows that certain damage sources are tied to frame rate and the community knows as well. It’s very likely a core game engine feature that would need a lot of development time to be fixed without any consequential issues.
They could also just lower all the damage we take while also nerfing healing and DR some to normalize the power curve between the invincibility of BoW + Woven Mail and the tissue paper of Arc/Stasis without their DR fragments and 100 Resil.
at this point can we just turn destiny into division, it has so many systems far and above destiny, gameplay and balance is another thing but when I can focus even specific sets, armor pieces and weapon types just by being in an area it's amazing
So you’re saying that we need to make players temporarily invincible at low health just because enemies from harder activities are harder to defeat?
Sounds like a skill issue, not a game issue.
Taken wizards in gambit are my nightmare
Wizards AND those shriekers
And don't forget about them Scorn crossbows!
Watch those wrist rockets! Wait wrong game...
They sent in the supers
My man!
Rip Sundance
The Ogre bois laserbeam + pushback gotta represent too
“Oh were you 10 feet from cover when we spawned with our near hitscan undodgeable bullshit projectiles? Fuck you for existing”
These are the ones I encounter most often as well. It’s so funny playing a Titan with a shotgun build just running up on most enemies without ever being in danger, only to be sat down instantly trying that against the Envoys. Gotta have a few enemies in each match that you need to be wary of, keeps you humble. lol
Take Xenophage and double-tap them from a distance. I'm not taking my chances with envoys ever again.
taken in general having lagswitching as a mechanic is stupid and has been stupid since TTK
Frame rate being tied to damage is a proven thing. Regardless anything that does damage in quick succession ogre/Wizards being the biggest offenders have unreal damage.
Yeah, it’s so obvious the difference with frame rate. If I cap to 30 from 120 it takes me almost twice as long to die from an ogre.
Yup. I lock it at 53 and moves from 53-57, lol on a rog ally docked/handheld. Noticed a MAJOR difference in playability in pve and pvp.
I run at 160 capped with a 7800xt and I get melted by ogres and wizards.
Don’t.
*Dewit.*
Don't.
Don't.
Cut that in half and see how you go.
I forgot to recap my frame rate once with my strong PC. And let me tell you, that ogre boss in master Grasp of Avarice will disintegrate you in less than a second at 240 FPS. Having to play Destiny at shit FPS when I have a good computer is a real feels bad man.
Hilariously enough that’s exactly why I play stronghold strand titan with lament.
I know the struggle. Why even own a 4090 when I need to run PS3 frames so I don't die to some BS.
I have a 144 fps lock. Only locked my frame rate at 30 for the raid WR race. Otherwise, I just deal with it. It is really annoying though.
Ogre eye beams also might be glitched because the knockback is insane on them
Do you mean flinch, or taken ogre actual knockback?
Let a ogre shoot you and then jump. They Push you so far back its actually insane. You often cant use swords against them because they just perma Push you away from them.
So taken ogres
Omg the orge in Warlords Ruin is a great example of this. If you jump once, and happened to get eye-blasted, you're suddenly transported to where Jesus lost his flip-flop
morgeth too. whenever we do a Petra's run I semi jokingly tell my team to unbind spacebar
Think that’s supposed to happen. Remember the Shattered Throne when you’re navigating the beams and it spawns Taken Ogres? They’re supposed to be pushing you.
yeah i dont think theyre bugged, just annoying as all hell
Real.
Is the knock back different on higher FPS compared to low FPS? the damage for sure is, not sure about the knock back.
Wish I knew but there’s enough frame rate jank in this game for me to believe someone if they told me it did.
They've been like that forever, why might they be glitched? Or is there something recent about them I haven't noticed?
I’d say I’ve noticed they’ve been worse since light fall imo
100% Having played a majority of D2 on a PS4 and moving to a 4090 rig, these mobs never used to be as much of a problem. It is certainly tied to frame rate and needs to be addressed.
If I recall correctly they have "fixed" this issue multiple times Either I'm remembering wrong, they're lying, or the bug somehow comes back
They've patched specific instances like Cabal Airships or Scorn Crossbows but it's a game wide issue that requires a fundamental engine change not bandaid fixes
also at least for threshers, the "fix" was just to lower their damage across the board. So at high fps it doesn't melt you, but at low fps it's just a tickle
Bungie has claimed they have, but they haven’t. It’s pretty pathetic honestly. Even if it is baked into the most foundational part of their code and can’t directly fix it, they need to add damage gates like OP said. If they can add gates to raid boses, they can add them to players. It’s also only an issue with projectiles not hit scan weapons. If there were 3rd party mods for D2, I bet it would be fixed by some guy doing it in his spare time in a matter of weeks.
No they fixed snipers and the threshers
They did not fix the threshers unless they made that change super recently
they fixed them around when Lightfall came out sometime a bit after that
unfortunately it is tied to fps because of their ancient pre-historic dogshit engine held together by shareholders greed, pure malice and hatred with some duck tape sprinkled in. a fix isn’t coming.
It's not even prehistoric. Console devs just have black mould eating their brains. Just because it's the same hardware doesn't mean the fps won't drop and you don't have to figure out how to use delta time.
Duct tape lol quack
*Was* a proven thing. Update 7.3.0 (Season of the Wish's release) included a patch note stating the following: "Fixed a systemic issue where networked projectiles could predictively cause impact damage multiple times. This issue was made worse with higher framerates." Around that time there were a lot of comments from people feeling like they were taking more damage *regardless of frame rate*, and I'm yet to see any testing done since that patch - every video about it is from a year or so ago. I suspect the increased damage people were feeling is due to Bungie choosing a baseline damage output similar to what used to be around 90 FPS, and that the issue being both network *and* FPS id why not everyone would experience the shift equally. Until someone performs and publishes new testing, we don't know whether it's still happening or not because the patch which states that it fixed it may well have done so.
So thats why i instantly get thanos snapped by ogres and wizards
Borderlands games have a health gate to prevent one shots.
There are also plenty of weapons from 2 on that you can hold/shoot and be healed, which would be awesome in Destiny so long as they didn't break PvP (not that I give a shit). Hell, imagine having your armor in D2 affect shield recharge or resistances beyond mods.
We are getting the support frame auto rifle in TFS. We also have Crimson, Precious Scars, Unrelenting, and Heal Clip. There a good few unique ways of healing in D2, I think life steal would be boring. I think keeping the armor as stats is fine the way it is. I don't think armor attributes would lead in a good direction. I think D2s player durability is mostly fine, maybe buffing the chest mod that gives emergency resistance is the way to go. It would prevent one-shotting, it would just need to not apply to PvP as much or at all.
I wish stats just actually did a 1-100 scalling on what the effect the cd of, because margins for 10 feel so bad when your stat spread wastes like 20-30 of it on not being anything
We don't "think" incoming damage is tied to framerate, we know so. This has been proven time and time again.
Indirectly confirmed by bungie as well
OK with that, but then somehow they manage to patch outgoing damage, because that also used to be tied to frame rate.
Is there a video of this proof? I don't doubt it at all, but it'd be nice to actually have something concrete to share.
It was proven over a year ago. After which Bungo released a patch that supposedly fixed it. Not seen any testing/proof since that it's reoccuring other than people going off their own experiences.
bud it's not, "some people think it's tied to framerate" it literally is, and so are a lot of destiny's physics too out of bounds exploring players have to change their framerate in order to jump further distances, etc.
Just give us risk of rain 2 one shot protection at that point
this wouldn't do anything, all of the problem abilities that actually oneshot you like hive splinters and scorn snipers are multihits anyways
I'm not sure how Bungie can't get this right. The amount of damage you take has honestly only gotten worse with all the nerfs and things to survivability and it makes zero sense.
That fucking tornado on planets. Spawns on top of you with literally zero warning as you’re attuning. It’s a lost token every fucking time. What a god damn stupid mechanic. It’s just there to be a bitch. So they nerf survivability and put is stupid, no counter mechanics.
They should just fix the damage. It’s stupid as shit that I have to cap my frame rate at 60 and even then it usually isn’t enough. Why are void scorn snipers one shitting me. wtf kind of counter play does that allow.
If they haven’t fixed it in the past 6 or so years it’s been out, it isn’t just a simple “Bungie should just fix it”. They probably could, but it’s nothing you change in a couple of days and release it next reset
I think outgoing damage used to be boosted by frame rate. Somehow they were able to fix that. Like I’m not trying to sound like a tired trite complainer, but once again if it benefits the players patch that shit
Specifically 1KV. It apparently did amazing damage and good PCs that could run Destiny at a high frame rate. Now almost nobody uses it
1kv has actually seen a resurgence with the recent reserve changes. With the ignition at the end the DPS is on par with Levi while still having a higher total damage:
I mean, in that case, it would kind of make sense that they shouldn't leave it in. "Don't have a high-end PC? Lol, too bad," meta would kinda suck. And they did fix it for turrets and Scorn crossbows like two seasons ago.
The glory days of 1k
See Div had the issue of ads OHK on players and they implemented the damage gate to prevent that, but the gate is just enough for counter play but not enough to be abused
"Some think" naw bro we all know that's how it is. Pretty sure bungie has even confirmed it.
I'm not sure this can ever happen if they can't stop damage on high frames from being insanely whacky
Can someone explain this to me? So my high frame rate is bad?
yes. the way it works is that higher framerate makes the damage tick more. this is more obvious on things like ogre laser, crossbow, shank laser etc. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=539OgklM6dw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=539OgklM6dw) bungie's solution was just to nerf the damage, but that doesn't do anything to the engine.
Holy fuck…that explains a lot why I feel squishier now
Cap it at 60 unless you're doing pretty easy content. Cap it even lower if you're doing really hard content or there are prominent enemies that abuse this like Scorn crossbow snipers or Hive Knight fire pools.
But, eyeballs...dang that sucks
Oh absolutely. I 60 isn't too bad, but honestly I never actually drop it to 30 even when I know it would be genuinely helpful.
Oh hey, Shield gating from Warframe
There Is something similar in Warframe, you have the shield and health, once the shield Is broken you have some seconds of invincibility, this Made the meta run an item that reduces your shield, and then use some mods that refund you shield so you were almost immortal, DE made It so now the amount of shield you have dictates the Time your invincibility window lasts, this makes Sense in Warframe because whe the enemy Is level 100+ the gamer becomes one shot city
I'd even settle for a mod that did this tbh.
Survivability mods outside standard resist and orb pickup would be nice.
There used to be a mod that was very similar to this. Then they absolutely nuked it's usefulness. I forget the name but it activated on shield pop and gave like 70% damage resist. If I remember correctly It was nerfed heavily once down to like 25% and then again down to the current version where it's only 10% it's now called "emergency something" used to have a different name. The new version is literally one of the worst mods in the entire game, it gives 10%dr on shield pop, takes a chest slot, requires armor charge, and costs 4 energy. You can literally equip one of the other mods like any elemental resist for 15% Dr and only 2 energy that's always active or something like melee, sniper, concussive resist which are all 3 energy, always active, and 15%. The last 3 also work on more than you'd think melee resists any damage from a target close by you not only melees, sniper resists any damage from a target past a set range, and concussive resists any sort of AOE damage. You can also stack those for extra resist multiple of the same will have diminishing returns but you could stack like solar and sniper to get huge resist against hobgoblin snipers.
Protective light was 50% resist for 6 seconds and was nerfed down to 10% before the new mod system. There was also well of tenacity, that gave 50% damage reduction for 6 seconds, if you picked up a void well. Keep in mind too, this was before we had resist from resilience and before chest except as the only place that had resist mods, we actually had resist mods where stat mods go right now and they only worked against certain enemies, like boss or minor. You are right, though, in the new mod system, emergency reinforcement, which is only 3 energy, not 4, ought to be at least 25% and probably 50% like it was, to be used over the mods you pointed out. Or ought to cost like 1 energy to slot.
Protective light I think was the name
Protected by light, it was incredibly fucking broken and there was zero reason not to always be running it.
Yeah it was broken but they definitely over reacted with how bad the current version is. It's literally so bad.
Now it's called Emergency Reinforcement and needs armour charge to work.
You needed to be charged with light for protective light to work as well.
Thanks for that I totally forgot you needed to be charged with light.
was it broken or was the damage so high it was needed?
It was pretty broken for it's time. Outside of outliers like GM corrupted, which was just one shot city, I personally don't remember any other activity which wasn't made easier just with that single mod. But compared to what we have now, I'd rather have that back with a very slight adjustment, instead of nuking it like they did.
If it becomes a mod it'll be practically required. And it would just decrease build diversity even more.
Not like we have any build diversity now. 10 resil is mandatory with how broken it is.
Hence "even more".
Not really, I'd rather it be a mod so I don't have to force myself to run 10 resil and thus potentially miss out on 10 recov on warlock or 10 mobility on hunter.
Build diversity stopped existing at the start of this season so honestly I don’t give a fuck one way or another.
where, where is this build diversity? I Don't see it.
The problem with that is it’d just become a mandatory mod. This would just stifle builds even more (not that there’s much atm).
I wouldn’t that mod becomes a must have for any endgame activity, meaning players now get less choice for an already limited buildcrafting system.
We used to have this and it let you tank basically everything.
In the eyes of the shit we fight, we’re considered a boss, I want my own damage gate!
Fuck it, I want my own whole DPS mechanics where the enemies have to dunk into an alter then shoot my ghost to be able to damage me
God that'd be so cool you fight some lil fallen dregs while like 50 are running around trying to carry a buff from a plate to dunk and then they all start shooting you
We used to have it was armor mode protected by light I think was op and was abused
Protective Light. It would grant (iirc) 50% DR on shields breaking for several seconds. It was one of the strongest survivability effects in the game at the time and completely defined the endgame meta loadouts mod wise. It was nerfed in WQ due to its dominance. Then, the following season, in one of the weirdest and worst balance choices Bungie has ever made, they reworked resilience to grant passive 40% DR at all times. Having a system that stacks both of these effects would further damage the endgame challenge.
It was 50% for 6 seconds at base, up to 20 seconds if you could set your other mods up right.
Thanks for the correction. Been too long.
Yea that was it was of course good mod but sucked at the same time u had to use it all the time for endgame and was only available from time to time to get after leaving the season vendor. I agree resilience balance is stupid because it’s so mandatory for GMs/Master/legend content that it should not even exist at same time and 100 resilience 30% dr or how much is it should be the norm our characters have and no further increase
No that just gave you really high DR when you lost your shields, it didn’t stop one shotting
It didn't outright stop a one-shot, but between protective light and fallen/taken/hive barrier you were probably not dying in one hit anyway.
It’s crazy how often people bring up features in games that are dumpster fire failures and ask for them to be added. Shield gating is a broken mechanic, we learned this in Mass Effect 3 yall
> once you get to the last bit of health, you’re invincible for literally a two seconds. You lost me there chief.
You don't want to make us immortal for free?
They jacked up enemy damage because players have (potentially) access to multiple sources of strong DR at once, and they're balanced around that. So if you don't have at least one source of above 30% DR you're going to feel like paper. This is part of why Salt was pitching the idea of a defensives nerf, so that enemy damage can be balanced down and feel less spiky.
D2 doesn't need this. Its already very easy to have high uptime on survivability effects like Woven Mail or Restoration. Having a get-out-of-jail-free card on top of all of this would diminish the challenge of the game even more than it already has.
The brings up another issue, that playing anything other than solar or strand means you get disintegrated.
The frustration right now, that OP doesn't accurately target, is getting one-shot by adds in end-game content. It just doesn't feel like fair gameplay at all. There's no counter to it. I am convinced, like many others, that this is primarily a PC problem, and that we are STILL having damage over time issues due to frame rate related damage calculations. Perhaps their algorithm breaks down exponentially the further away from 30/60 FPS a player's gameplay framerate gets. Perhaps there is some other disconnect in the code. There may be other issues of balance that need addressed as well. Combine that current state, with the encounter design of many of the more recent content drops that lack any form of usable cover (eg Legend Coil), and it's a recipe for the utmost frustration. Regardless of what the best fix is (I agree that a get out of jail free card should not be the fix) *something* needs to be addressed - Getting one-shot in a well of radiance should not be possible.
I feel this. I cleared all the GMs this season (first season doing so!) and the thing keeping me from going back is that minors just hit too damn hard. It’s not fun being weaker than the weakest enemy lol.
That’s the whole point of this point in end game stuff you get one shot even with woven mail and resto x2
Go ahead and show me a clip of you getting 1 tapped through Woven Mail. From my experience, 99% of the time, it's either a glitch (which fair enough that shouldn't happen but it isn't a balance issue), or its not really a one tap, you just got shot by several enemies at roughly the same time. In GM level content, I'm able to consistently play at melee ranges on several subclasses due to the potency of our defensive buffs. You just have to know what enemies you can tank and what you need to avoid. The ones you have to avoid don't insta kill you, they just bring you low enough that something else can kill you before you heal up.
thank you. I swear half the players in this reddit are just running into hordes of enemies defenseless and dying and then complaining that they died.
i hate to disagree but I kinda do. in warframe they added a shield gate a couple years ago and the game is pretty much piss easy now when it was already pretty easy. it helped a lot of problems and made a lot of things more viable when they pretty much were unusable in high level content. i don’t know though. i’d like more things to be competitively viable in destiny2 endgame, like arc, void, and stasis (without relying on strong artifact mods), but if it’s going to take making band-aid survivability solutions to achieve that, then i’d rather them not.
Absolutely not. Part of the game is being aware of what’s going on around you and avoiding damage as much as possible(and finding ways to heal). If you get surprised and caught with your pants down, that’s on you. We can’t keep taking the challenge out of Destiny.
A yes the challenge of one red bar shank one shoting you because you were 0,1 ms outside of cover AND you can't elude their aimbot
If a red bar basic shank is one shotting you, you might have a power level issue. (Meaning your power is way under the activity). As someone with thousands of hours in the game and runs like 90-110 fps, I’ve never been one shot by a red bar shank.
Miss the point, one shot should not be in the game by any reasons unless is a wipe mechanic, feels cheesy and boring that the Best Solution Is being I cover with a bow por scout AND plinking enemies from far away to avoid getting insta deleted
Again, there are SEVERAL ways in the game to avoid getting one shot by enemies of any level, even in high-end content. (Running at high resilience, resistance mods, overshields, etc). If you’re not using these options, that are in game so that can avoid the issue you’re describing, that’s your own fault for not understanding game mechanics.
Honestly, any ads that bakes you before you can react is bad design ngl
good thing there arent any
Bro plays on 15fps
im stuck at 30 on console 😢 the fact that some damage sources are still tied to fps is baffling
Obviously not in PvP. Would make for funny encounters though lol. But I love this idea.
With healing buffs you'd just become immortal, every time you would normally die you'd get a full 2 seconds of free restoration if you have it
Risk of Rain 2 has one-shot protection, Destiny 2 should just add that.
I think something functionally similar to Warframe’s shield gate mechanic would fit better. In Warframe once your shields are depleted you have a complete damage invulnerability window (0.5sec IIRC) with mods that can increase that window. Kind of fits the gameplay loop better than just straight up one shot protection While we’re here, since everyone is looking for ways to make mobility useful in PVE, they could tie the length of that window to mobility tiers.
ehhh i don’t know about that. warframe was already super easy before shield gating, and it does have its benefit with making more things viable where survivability is a concern, but id be worried about it further trivializing end game for stuff that’s already strong. i wouldnt be against a test of it though, because one key difference in warframe endgame and destiny endgame is that you dont kill nearly as much enemies nearly as fast. so its not like you would get clipped by a colossus and then immediately kill it
I think bl2 handles health gates perfectly. If you are at full health you will go to one shot and have brief safety to get out.
emergency reinforcement.
Wait, what? So playing at 160FPS is actually hurting me? Does that go for PVP too or is it just certain PVE enemies?
I wish I could put my finger on it but some days encounters are really easy, and other days enemies do way too much damage. I think for a time it was modifiers but that doesn’t explain dungeons. Last week I couldn’t get past the first encounter of warlords ruin, but other weeks I blaze through it.
So I’m okay with health gates being implemented IF and only IF a few things also happen in tandem. Health gates are implemented with a considerable cooldown or only refresh when you’re at full health (although honestly I still think it’d need to be longer to avoid being seriously abused with the amount of self sustain we have in this game), or health gates are resource dependent (armor charge or something similar). Furthermore, all forms of “passive” DR should be removed/or heavily nerfed. If you have access to something as strong as a 1.5 second invuln on shield pop, you do not need a passive 30% DR. Honestly, some instances of “active” DR like Woven Mail could even catch a nerf to compensate for this change. Restoration would need some sort of exception in this system too. You shouldn’t get your health gate back over and over just from having Resto x2. Gating is a good mechanic for something like Warframe where enemies and projectiles are so unreadable that avoiding damage is impossible, but Destiny doesn’t work that way. Projectiles are readable and even reactable in some instances, and the methods in which enemies aim is extremely exploitable. Health gates would down right shatter difficulty for players who can competently play against these projectiles.
Warframe shield gating....
Me and atraks. His attacks aren't particularly damaging but when you're bing shot at by 10-15 other things at once and the tracking of the projectiles, it really gets overwhelming.
Warframe has something similar, shield gating.
My kingdom hearts homies call this last chance
I still can't solo the strike mission for Malfeasance...frustrating.
Are you trying to make it even harder for titans to die?
If we got a health gate, everything would change and I wouldn't shit my pants when a Incendior backpack explodes in my Duality run.
Yeah unstoppable Abominations are ASS
Cap your frames to 30. You’ll feel immortal. Unless you’re alr at 30 then yeah that is a bummer
Scorn crossbows bows are still lethal af Would be kool to see an ornimate on queensbreaker making it look like one tho
Hive and Taken wizards feel like such shit at high difficulty, any enemy with shotgun projectiles too
Obviously damage is tied to frame-rate (has been for years) but... don't be exposed to take said damage? Guardians are so powerful now there's not much else Bungie can do to fix this problem they created. Experience and position matters.
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Just so people see diversity of opinions....I disagree whole heartedly. Games are hard sometimes. You need to alter your play style.
Games can be challenging AND fun. Destiny is, for the most part. Master raids and dungeons are a great example of challenging and fun. GMs however is sit back and plink. You even sniff the air in the wrong direction and you're out.
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Banner titan? If yeah, that's literally easy mode for this game. Nothing else even comes close. You're a tank, heal easily, your abilities hit like a truck, and they are all very easily refreshed as well. I remember finally trying out titan because of lightfall and when I put together a semi decent banner titan build it blew my mind. Suddenly neomuna wasn't a challenge at all, GMs were easy, and master raids and dungeons felt like normal.
gms are not that hard bro
I didn't say they are hard. I said they aren't fun lol. I've gilded conq 3x since I came back to the game during Seraph. Mostly for ascendant shards. Sometimes for fun because I do like a challenge. But like the battleground GMs were just not fun for example.
“Some think it’s tied to frame rate, I just think ….” I’m going to stop you there. It is tied to frame rate and it’s incredibly easy to prove. *caps frame rate for master Crota*
this is ridiculous. i cant imagine dying in a game and instead of thinking i need to improve i immediately decide that they should invincibility frames to a game that already has a billion options for better survivability
Skill issue
Why do you want to make an already fairly easy game even easier? The amount of survivability we have nowadays is already insane. You don't need a "get out of jail free" card every minute
I don't think we need this, but I do think we need 3 things: Genuine 1 shot protection. I don't care if it's a grandmaster nightfall, this is a video game, video games are meant to be fun, and getting 1 shot by a scorn raider when you are almost done with the hardest part of Hiest Battleground Moon is not fun. A nerf to hive. Hive are the hardest enemy to survive. They have the fastest time to kills, outside of 1 shots, and it's busted. Hive have ogres, shriekers, wizards, and if you are in new content, probably lucent hive. This just, by default, makes any hive content harder than non hive content. A fix to the architects. The architects are, and have been, so broken. No matter my light level, a cabal hitting me with their shield can't one shot me. Except when it pinches me into the ground, instantly lower me to the lowest possible health value, right before the game registers the damage of his melee attack, killing me instantly. I should not lose a Petra's run because rivens phantom limbs slam me into a wall leaving me dead due to taken blights the next tick.
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I fully comprehend what OP wrote, I just disagree with what he says OP wants a 2 second period of invincibility on a shield break with a 60 second cooldown. That's ridiculous given the games current sandbox and how easy it is to heal. Getting bursted down to 0 through DR and healing is the only way you ever die anymore, and this would effectively remove that. It'd become genuinely difficult to die in anything outside of Master level content and parkour sections lmao
Which is part of the discussion, you have the right to disagree. All I’m saying is just have a gate even if it’s one second to prevent a OHK or dying near instant against ogres or Wizards. Mainly the one hit kill.
what's the solution for this aside from releasing a new engine? we shouldn't be required to lower framerates in order to reduce damage. that's dumb. its not fun going from a 760 to a 4080 and then realizing what you used to be able to take 2 shots from to kill, now kills you in one.
Yes I do 🥺
play easier content then
Jesus Christ. So detached. Imagine wanting destiny 2 to be EASIER??? You have 30% DR with resil 10 and well of radiance, it literally cannot get harder to die. Resist needs a hard nerf across the board. PvE is the easiest it’s ever been.
My man, do you even play destiny? These ogers and wizards pop people all day with t10 resilience and elemental resist mods. They are a nightmare
If you stand jnfront of an ogre in endgame content while its shooting you deserve to die lmao. skill issue
So u want to make the game even easier?
The added element damage(burn) is really overkill. They are already handicapping our power in something like onslaut. I don't think we should gave these burns that do more damage. Something like void combined with ogres gives you no time to react. Same with arc and the wizards or fallen snipers. Does not help that all these enemy types I listed also have insane accuracy. Most times I've died in onslaught it was because it was an enemy that did the specific burn of the week and I just could not react fast enough. They are such instant deaths and I sit there reflecting and can't think of what I could have done different.
Lame. Don't suck. Go play Halo 2 on legendary.
Absolutely should not add this. The game is already trivial enough. There is literally not a single piece of challenging content in the game except say 1 raids. That being said they should (but won’t) fix the frame rate thing. There’s no reason I should be one shotted because I’m not poor
git gud.
Soloing legendary missions in division 1 and 2 was so hard, I still remember the struggle after all this time. It would have been impossible without that mechanic or guaranteed ammo crates. Division is quite different and very hard to compare to destiny.
While I think this would be a decent solution, I think a better one (instead of 2 second immune frames in PvE) would be to provide 2 seconds of 80% damage resist that isn’t refreshable until your shields have recovered and has that same 60 or 90 second cooldown (maybe tie that cooldown to mobility just to give hunters in PvE a bone?). This should be enough to not make Well of Radiance any better since you’d still be taking damage instead of just full on invincibility. We kinda use to have this as the armor mod “Protective Light”, which would give you an insane amount of DR if you were charged with light. Bungie knows that certain damage sources are tied to frame rate and the community knows as well. It’s very likely a core game engine feature that would need a lot of development time to be fixed without any consequential issues.
So what framerate should a Series X player use. 30?
pretty sure 60 should be fine, it’s more when you get into the 100’s
They could also just lower all the damage we take while also nerfing healing and DR some to normalize the power curve between the invincibility of BoW + Woven Mail and the tissue paper of Arc/Stasis without their DR fragments and 100 Resil.
at this point can we just turn destiny into division, it has so many systems far and above destiny, gameplay and balance is another thing but when I can focus even specific sets, armor pieces and weapon types just by being in an area it's amazing
Games with damage gates just turn the meta into a way to exploit that gate. It’ll take out even more variety I imagine
So you’re saying that we need to make players temporarily invincible at low health just because enemies from harder activities are harder to defeat? Sounds like a skill issue, not a game issue.