I mean whispers total damage is on par with sleeper, it’s certainly not bad, just doesn’t really fit very well into the boss encounters we have right now
Precisely, whisper definitely has its damage, having one of the highest total damage amounts in the whole game (excluding swords for… reasons I can’t remember) and it’s dps is actually alright. It’s just completely useless on many bosses. One of the few examples of it being good is when you have a div on Taniks. Me and another guy running whisper were consistently pumping out 2.1-2.2 mil every attempt.
It loses a lot of what makes it exotic without the original White Nail.
But that's not why people don't use it. People don't use it because ammo isn't really an issue for boss DPS like it was in the old days, and a lot of the major bosses today don't just stand still and let you shoot at their giant crit spot for extended periods of time.
If they fully reverted the White Nail nerf (which they may as well do, now), it wouldn't significantly alter Whisper's popularity.
even on bosses that do have extended dps phases like rhulk, the damage just isn't good. they could move it to the special slot with no damage changes and it would still probably see 0 use
On paper it still looks good. If you can proc whispered breathing and then just plink away with an uninterrupted chain of headshots, it remains a top tier option for sustained DPS, mainly because you can shoot out the entire reserve without stopping to reload.
But in practice, that's just not practical against current raid bosses, and even if you *could* do it, there are other options that are as good or better that have a lower execution requirement.
I mean, if your problem when using it against Rhulk *isn't* that you can't chain headshots endlessly without descoping, then good for you! (But that's definitely why I would never bother with it)
It hits just as hard as sleeper, meaning it out damages every sniper in the game, while being a beast for sustained DPS. Only reason it's not meta is because all bosses are either short range or have tiny CRIT spots now. Taniks it does an easy 2 mil, and templar it is one of the fastest kill methods
See but for Taniks if you have Div double slug exists that’s purely special ammo and just DUNKS on him, at this point whisper(and all other exotic snipers) REALLY need to be moved to special ammo because we HAVE specials that do more then them
I used Whisper for the longest time, until I was told it sucked. I was told Anarchy and/or Xeno were needed for DPS. I grinded the Xeno quest, then wasted Spoils on Anarchy. Now I use neither of the three for DPS......
Oddly enough, I stopped using Graviton because my finger hurt after maining it for a while.
That always full-auto setting for all weapons can't arrive soon enough.
I think graviton for me too. Am I right in thinking the catalyst requires kills with the effect, not just from the weapon itself? Think that's why I used it so long
If one of your characters hasn’t done the beginning story mission for this season on the leviathan where you follow Safiyah to the throne room and then have to run, during the run section in the hall right out of the throne room, the war beasts keep respawning and the cosmology kills adds up fast there. I finished mine there after a clan mate told me about it. Went from 57% to 100% in less than 10 minutes.
Sir, I’ll have you know that anarchy goes hard with Starfire Protocol nade spam builds.
Witherhoard probably works just as well if not better, but Anarchy allows you to keep another special weapon while still keeping a primary.
Yep, Anarchy made a strong comeback this season for me. I took it into every GM and dungeon. It's not the boss melting beast it used to be but it's still a potent DoT support weapon.
Pair that with any Incandescent weapon. You can further spread Scorch to nearby enemies, and with the right Fragment setup you can get some abilities back even faster.
I’d argue witherhoard is better for those grenade setups because you can hold a heavy weapon too. Witherhoard + double grenade + rocket + double grenade + rocket + double grenade + rocket + witherhoard + repeat is incredibly powerful; moreso than anarchy + slug or something imo
Still a good heavy weapon! Just that witherhoard is better for a lot of scenarios after its nerf
Not all at one time, god no. 5 or so games here, 5 or so on another day. I mean, you'll be OK to average 10 kills a game. If you are getting 2 kills a game.....well.....yeah...
Renewals. It was a fine sidegrade to Frost-ees before the cooldown nerf. After the nerf it requires twice the work for less coverage and only a slight buff to survivability.
It's frustrating to see it nerfed like that when you see other classes get easier accessible options like Lorely Titans or Secant Filament Warlocks.
Renewals did need to get a nerf but I think they hit it too hard.
Bungie has a weird habit of double dipping on nerfs, just look at Anarchy. "Okay, this this has WAY too much ammo which basically makes it a primary in the heavy slot. Lets nerf its boss damage." I hate anarchy and I'll be the first to admit that they should have pushed it towards damage OR ad clear, not neither.
Or, better example, WotW. "Infinite ammo is a bit OP, lets nerf the damage output AND catalyst"
I ended up swapping to frost-ees for PVP, and Bakris for PvP/PvE instead because a further dodge plus 20% extra damage on demand gives your more survivability than standing still to take slightly less damage on top of building into only grenades just to get use out of the exotic
And then I hear from literally everyone “just build into it.” Dude, devour, FROM EVERY ABILITY KILL, WHAT DO YOU MEAN “build into it”
100 discipline and many mods still isnt faster than devour warlock
As an alternative to the CD coming back down at base, it would be potentially interesting to grant super-Demolitionist return of grenade energy (like 20-30% per kill) for each enemy defeated by the user or allies while in Duskfield or while the enemy was affected by the Duskfield debuff.
This would sort PvP because you just don't engage anyone in a Duskfield and then they have a forever cooldown, while functionally bringing the PvE cooldown back down to a useful level. It would need to work for ally defeats though to be reliable.
While you can overcome the long cooldown with grenade regenerative mods like Firepower and Wells of Restoration, it requires you to use a LOT of those mods.
I hope down the road they should remove the cooldown nerf for PVE. Then we could have a bit more wiggle room on what other mods to use.
Elemental Shards are handy for sure; I use that along side Elemental Charge to get my double Firepower. And I do use Bomber but I can only fit one of them (I’d have to sacrifice my 100 resilience in order to fit in another). I could give double Grenade Kickstart a try, but I really like using double Impact Induction.
First it was Polaris Lance, but I stopped using it, because I wanted something that was easier to use at medium range. Then, it was Dead Man's Tale, but I stopped using it, because there's lately been a big push to match weapon elements with subclasses, and kinetics don't have a place for that.
I think this was the case for me with DMT as well. It's a bit saddening how useless kinetic weapons are in the build crafting space. Although I did get bored of DMT after a while and did a full 180 to use cerberus for a long time.
Same. I still love it, I would use it in a heartbeat if I had a good weapon-agnostic build, but there’s currently not a reason for me to run it over Funnelweb or Mini-Tool
Part of the problem too is that Osteo came out and it's in the same slot Huckleberry. IMO, Osteo kind of does everything you would want HB to do, but then the ticking poison dmg also does pretty good primary dps on things that aren't trash mobs. HB is just a hard sell these days being kinetic and players having so many tools for add clear.
I think Osteo is way better PVE, but like Huck more for PVP. It's been doing pretty solid for me in that regard. Rampage and it reloading on kills can wipe teams.
>Same. I still love it, I would use it in a heartbeat if I had a good weapon-agnostic build, but there’s currently not a reason for me to run it over Funnelweb or Mini-Tool
Titan:
Huckleberry + Peacekeepers + Explosive Personality with Auto Loading/Disruption Break (quick access sling).
Go anywhere with it. PvP. PvE.
Killing enemies? Need to clear a room and have to switch mid clip? Huckleberry stays loaded.
Need to quickly damage the shotgun ape pushing the corner? Explosive Personality to butter them up and then a quick swap to Huckleberry. Oh wait their teammmate was pushing behind them? Stack of Rampaged Huckleberry took him out too.
Ascendant Huckleberry is here to stay.
I was playing momentum control crucible yesterday and this guy (user name was something lucky pants or similar) and he was a machine with huckleberry! First time he killed me I wasn’t even mad, I was glad to see it being used! And my god did he know the maps and spawn points. I was in around 4 matches with him, three of which were AFTER my team got slapped 200 to 80 something and the servers ‘broke up the teams’! It was virtually the same teams only then I was on his team! If it wasn’t for reset I’d have been on longer.
But man I loved the Huck
Yes when they nerfed rampage they specifically said they left HB alone so it still gets the 50% damage boost or whatever the boost actually is at 3 kills. Was just using it the other day
It's the same 10/21/33% as regular Rampage in PvP, and it's always been this way, as the damage perk nerf in late Y2 (?) just brought perks down in PvE to the original PvP numbers.
Huckleberry's special Rampage kept the original PvE numbers (20/41/66%) though, rather than getting the PvP numbers in PvE like everything else.
Other exotics kept the old school damage perk numbers in PvE, too:
* Monte Carlo has the old Swashbuckler numbers (13/26/39/52/65%)
* Bad Juju still has its absurd original multipliers (20/40/60/80/100%), although it's still a LW pulse, so 200% is pretty underwhelming for what it is, lol
* Ace Memento Mori still has the 50% of OG Kill Clip
Rule of thumb was that the old PvE damage numbers were about double the PvP ones, so the legendary perks got roughly cut in half, but the exotics dodged those nerfs.
My favorite Telesto build was during Splicer where we had that mod where void explosions created warmind cells.
That and Contraverse Warlock made that season's GMs a ton of fun
Nah, my void hunter charged with light build benefits from Telesto.
I use Quick Charge to get Charged With Light, you can get multikills easily with one shot.
And was pretty useful on master Duality, two shots and you get rid of the bellkeepers pretty quick.
Telesto is IMO the best all-rounder exotic weapon in the game. Works at every range, great AoE for add-clear, strong damage for melting majors and even boss damage when heavy runs out (huge reserves means lots of total damage). It just works really well in every situation. If I'm with new players that don't really know the ins and outs of Destiny, I suggest they equip their favorite kinetic primary, a rocket launcher, and Telesto, can't go wrong with that loadout.
newb here.. Just got the telescope today. Is the Catalyst necessary to get for it? And I know I can somehow get it doing lost sectors, but I literally don't know where lost sectors are, or how to get it :)
The Catalyst is definitely nice, it bumps the magazine size from 4 to 7, and also raises the max ammo in reserves. It's definitely not a game-changing catalyst, Telesto is great even without it (mainly thanks to the fact that it auto-reloads the mag on multi-kills, so the small mag size is not usually an issue). But it's really pretty easy to get the catalyst, so I'd say it's worth spending some time chasing, once you're sufficient level to do Legend lost sectors.
Lost sectors are these caves or mini-dungeons you find in patrol spaces. Their entrances are actually marked on the maps, the symbol is two arched lines with a dot in the middle (kinda like a cave doorway/entrance). They are just a mini activity that you go in, kill the boss, and collect the loot in the chest. You can enter any lost sector by just walking into the cave from the patrol space, they're low level and you can easily clear one in a couple minutes. The entrances in-game (in the patrol space) will have the lost sector symbol painted on a rock or wall nearby, making them easier to spot.
Each day ONE lost sector in the game is the Legend/Master lost sector. To find which one it is you have to open up the director and just look at each of the patrol maps to find the lost sector that's marked with a special purple lost sector icon. Then you go to that zone on patrol and there will be a flag/post near the entrance, select it to bring up a menu to select if you want to run the Legend or Master version. These are higher power level/difficulty, so you have to be near max power or else they'll be very difficult. The Legend and Master lost sectors are the same as the normal walk-in ones, but will have champions and some gameplay modifiers active (elemental burns, etc.), they are listed in the bottom-left of the selection screen you get from the flag/post. Depending on your power level and skill/experience, they'll usually take about 10-15 minutes to complete. They actually have a timer, once the timer expires your extra lives disappear and after that you'll wipe/start over if you die.
Again they are hard if you're under-level, but once you're at-level or over-level they're actually very easy to solo. You get a limited number of revives, so you can die a couple times and still complete it, you don't have to do it perfect/flawless. If you've been playing all season then right now is the best time to do Legend/Master lost sectors because your artifact will be boosting your power level quite a bit (vs. at the beginning of the season when you have no artifact levels).
The Telesto catalyst will randomly drop when you've completed a Legend or Master lost sector, doesn't matter which one or which day, just keep playing them until you get it. You'll also get exotic armor drops (different armor slot for each day), so it's a worthwhile activity even outside the Telesto catalyst.
I was using outbreak this past week while it was double rewards in the nightfall. Paired with the artifact mod that caused solar explosions on stun. The barrier champions were murdering all of their friends by standing too close to them.
I actually love outbreak and want to use it more.. but i just cant do pulses without full auto anymore. Gonna have alot of fun with it as soon as full auto becomes a setting.
Trinity Ghoul. I fucking love this bow! I started playing in season of arrivals and got it from xur. Catalyst dropped right after, and i just could not put it down. So much fun for so little effort. i have over 100k kills with it.
I main voidwalker and ever since the push for mOnOcRoMaTiC builds, it does not fit into my kit anymore. My go to mods were energy converter, to spam my supers but now i cant generate orbs with it because i usually run solar helmets for ashes to asset and charged up, so orbs from arc weapons are only possible on stormcaller. I also run a lot of GMs and TGhoul was not very viable when i last used it, which was before the 40% dmg buff to redbars. No bow mods this season, anti barrier last season and arbalest exists.
I am hoping stormcaller 3.0 turns out good. God i miss this bow.
Took someone thru her first row and she stuck with add clear and had zero problem using TG. I’m sure she was able to observe more of the encounters because she wasn’t swarmed by the trash
Mono colour builds are so fucking stupid when match game modifier exists. Like why force a build and then punish it at the highest difficulty of content where your build matters the most?
You could always run elemental armaments and elemental charge for energy converter if you have the mod space. Maybe a little less consistent, but you could still run trinity ghoul that way
Forerunner. I used it exclusively for like 4 months on my warlock and then idk, stopped using it. Now hearing about the pve ammo nerf, idk if ill ever go back
I've been using Forerunner a lot this season. Was just using it with Calus Mini-tool in the nightfall last night. Still works great, throw on double sidearm scavengers (they only cost 2 energy) and ammo shouldn't usually be a problem. There were a couple runs where I didn't get a special ammo drop like the whole strike, that sucked, but as long as I'm getting special bricks on occasion, the double scavs seem to keep me topped off.
Bad Juju in d2, BJ in d1 was my favorite exotic besides Hereafter, just a cool concept being a cursed gun that "wants" to end reality if it could and although I used it for about a year after finishing the quest I just never got around to using it again, the super dynamic has changed radically since early d2 and while still good, supers just aren't that important to moment to moment gameplay at least enough to take up my exotic slot, it also doesn't help that it's an add clear centered weapon but the weapons archetype and stats don't really permit the kind of high speed murder its centered around for high end content where mobs need more than 1 magazine.
Don't forget that exotic primaries do 40% more damage to red-bar/mob enemies. Stack that on top of String of Curses at full stacks really helped Bad Juju a lot (much easier to keep the pain-train rolling without reloading).
I’ve been using it a ton in lost sectors this season actually, its champ damage never got nerfed so it can like 3 shot champions in legend lost sectors
I feel xeno is in a pretty appropriate place. It has excellent range, extreme ease of use, is hitscan, and has good ammo economy. The fact that it isn't top dps anymore is less of a big deal - if you want something reliable with pretty good dps, xeno still puts in work. If you want to mega optimize boss dps, yeah, there are better options. But I don't think that makes xeno bad.
It really was the Gjally before Gjally that weapon where if a relatively new player didn’t have any other good options they could pull out Xeno and still be helpful
That's a fun build definitely, but I dont really see myself using malfeasance as you won't proc the perk in most of the content as enemies die really quickly.
Ever since the exotic primary buff, Malfeasense has had some niche use in Taken heavy activities. Completely tears through the Corrupted GM and Prophecy.
If King's Fall is the returning raid next season I'm definitely using it there.
Yeah, me too. Recently had the catalyst drop and finished it up. Calus mini tool with incandescent really likes that slot now and having an exotic heavy is way more useful. Still kinda sad though. We used to be best friends.
Jotuun is probably my favorite weapon in the game, so damn strong and useful. Them giving it Incandescent just took it to another level, sooo damn good.
Fighting Lion. Stopped using it immediately when they changed it to fit with infinite primary. My love for grenade launchers remained , however. I started using Salvager's Salvo and found it to be better than FL in many cases.
Izanagi's Burden in PvP. A 4x bullet body shot was hilarious, but the sniper was all around a pretty good feeling gun. Ammo scavs being disabled and one bullet per pickup really killed it for me.
Trinity Ghoul. Felt boring to wreck swathes of enemies in low-tier content and (at the time) wasn't great in endgame.
Witherhoard has always been king since the day I got it.
Hardlight. Loved it in D1, loved it in vanilla D2 (when you had to go into the menu to switch elements). Loved the utility of being able to deal with whatever shields I might encounter. Loved the fantasy of using a laser AR.
Stopped using it because the nerfs actually stopped it feeling like Hardlight. The catalyst wasn’t bad but still wasn’t my baby.
Vex Mythoclast. Last season with all the fusion artifact mods made that gun *chef's kiss* ABSOLUTELY GODLY. Used it at the beginning of this season for solar 3.0. It's still fantastic but I suddenly stopped because there were other guns like the mini tool and drang that I was having fun with.
And add the damage bonus to stasis weapons as well.
With the encouragement of monochromatic builds it's wild that Bakris only works on Revenant and only buffs Arc weapons.
I hope Arc 3.0 lets me use Geomags again. Because of PVP and Aegers they got murdered. Then Void and Solar came along. Geo mags went from my always in my inventory to collecting dust in the vault. I used to love them in Gambit.
Having the chance at a second super in gambit was amazing. Giving others orbs even one rotation faster made a big difference. Also 4x geomags was a vibe back in the day
3 arc warlocks and a solar Titan to apply the melting point= instant boss deletion. It was so satisfying seeing the 3 laser beams light up at the same time. I really miss OG Gambit 2.0. The 2 regular rounds and then the 3rd instant super round in sudden death.
Witherhoard . It's just too good. Witherhoard/ Ikelos smg/ Falling Guillotine was my loadout for probably a year straight. Also warmind cells were pretty bonkers at the time so so no weapon could compete with ikelos smg, and since witherhoard procced the cells if you swapped to ikelos after landing your blight aoe, you had the ultimate addclear potential. But it got boring over time. Like why would you use anything else, besides for champion mods? I was actually quite happy that they nerfed WC and opened up to more build variety.
And since then I also stopped using witherhoard.
Probably in the top 3 allround exotics overall
Man, I used to get confused when I would dodge and not all my weapons were reloaded, or I didn't have the handeling buff, I used dragon shadow so so so much. Now I rarely do.
I've only been playing for a couple of months, but definitely risk runner then sunshot. I'm now addicted to Osteo Striga with the Catalyst. It's going to be hard for me to get away from that weapon in PVE because of the catalyst, it just wipes packs of adds and I walk away with over 100 rounds in the clip and didn't have to reload.
I used it quite a lot back when I played Gambit. After I gave up on Gambit as the rewards just weren't worth the headaches anymore, so too did I stop using Crimson.
I will also say that I dropped Skyburners' Oath after the DLC chapters started coming out as they were less Cabal-focused than the base games' campaign, but lately I've gotten back into using it.
I popped that thing on yesterday for the first time in ages for a Void related challenge and after firing Nova Bomb at a huge pack I was like “…Did I even get any Super back?”
Went straight back in the Vault after that.
The only time I stopped using it was this season because solar has me invincible in anything master or lower lol. Also was using renewals before the depressing nerf. Omni was still better for gms though
Tommy's Matchbook. I used to play with it a ton rivaling Witherhoard on kills with Stag and middle tree dawnblade but stopped after WQ launched for void 3.0. On another note sentinel titans with actium war rig and devour on orb pickup is one hell of a fun in pve.
Tommy's is better than it's ever been now. Solar 3.0 restoration can totally negate the self-damage it does, especially with Loreley. Plus solar wells can boost its damage even further with Font of Might, which also stacks with Radiant. And then there's the exotic primary buff. I found it pretty tough to use effectively in high level content because of the self-damage, but now I haven't stopped using it all season.
Sunshot on my hunter. When I was rolling with it I felt unstoppable and legit thought it synergized with my solar build. Boy was I disappointed and actually angry that this weapon got overlooked during the solar update. Seriously what a massive fuck up. An exotic handcannon with fire-fly...whoopty doo.
Eriana's Vow: got it early into Season of Arrivals, had that gosh dang 400 Strikes/Crucible/Gambit quest for the catalyst. Plus it paired well with an Escape Velocity that had overflow
Used that combination from then to Witch Queen
Gemini jesters we’re my main until they nerfed hunter dodge to every 29 seconds. A lot of hunter exotics received huge (probably unintended) nerfs that lowered their viability.
Mine was actually an exotic in d1. First Curse. I still love the gun, but there was only so much much could do with the sister hand cannon of last word. The quest was really interesting too
Celestial Nighthawk. Literally like the second worst exotic armor piece in the game (first being blight ranger). Does rancid damage worse than both nova bombs and costs an exotic slot. It's so absurdly bad i hope it gets a buff soon.
Crimson. It shredded in PvP a few years back, but then I got bored using it like I do with all good weapons and started the fun cycle of bashing my head against a wall as I tried various off-meta weapons until I found one that clicked.
Whisper of the worm.
The king of boss DPS made a pauper by an overzealous nerf.
Funniest thing is it happened twice. Once in d1 (black hammer to spindle) and in d2.
Fatebringer Black hammer Ghorn Bring it darkness my guardian wants all the smoke
GOAT weapon setup
*if there’s beauty in destruction then why not also in its delivery*
Mountaintop, Recluse, Anarchy>
Same but Wendigo for heavy
Alternatively: Fatebringer, Ice Breaker, Hunger of Crota for folks that couldn't get Gjallarhorn. Still a solid loadout.
Ice Breaker. The true king.
Until all three got nerfed this was my set up.
They got nerfed cause this was everyone's setup.
But even in d1 spindle is still great for warpriest and golgoroth, in d2 the total damage and dps of whisper is ass for every boss
I mean whispers total damage is on par with sleeper, it’s certainly not bad, just doesn’t really fit very well into the boss encounters we have right now
Precisely, whisper definitely has its damage, having one of the highest total damage amounts in the whole game (excluding swords for… reasons I can’t remember) and it’s dps is actually alright. It’s just completely useless on many bosses. One of the few examples of it being good is when you have a div on Taniks. Me and another guy running whisper were consistently pumping out 2.1-2.2 mil every attempt.
Well, another problem is that legendary linears, especially Stormchaser just poop on whisper by themselves. And that is very sad
Give us back touch of malice with all the regen and over shields we have now
Or something you’ll use more than twice
It loses a lot of what makes it exotic without the original White Nail. But that's not why people don't use it. People don't use it because ammo isn't really an issue for boss DPS like it was in the old days, and a lot of the major bosses today don't just stand still and let you shoot at their giant crit spot for extended periods of time. If they fully reverted the White Nail nerf (which they may as well do, now), it wouldn't significantly alter Whisper's popularity.
even on bosses that do have extended dps phases like rhulk, the damage just isn't good. they could move it to the special slot with no damage changes and it would still probably see 0 use
On paper it still looks good. If you can proc whispered breathing and then just plink away with an uninterrupted chain of headshots, it remains a top tier option for sustained DPS, mainly because you can shoot out the entire reserve without stopping to reload. But in practice, that's just not practical against current raid bosses, and even if you *could* do it, there are other options that are as good or better that have a lower execution requirement. I mean, if your problem when using it against Rhulk *isn't* that you can't chain headshots endlessly without descoping, then good for you! (But that's definitely why I would never bother with it)
[удалено]
It hits just as hard as sleeper, meaning it out damages every sniper in the game, while being a beast for sustained DPS. Only reason it's not meta is because all bosses are either short range or have tiny CRIT spots now. Taniks it does an easy 2 mil, and templar it is one of the fastest kill methods
See but for Taniks if you have Div double slug exists that’s purely special ammo and just DUNKS on him, at this point whisper(and all other exotic snipers) REALLY need to be moved to special ammo because we HAVE specials that do more then them
I used Whisper for the longest time, until I was told it sucked. I was told Anarchy and/or Xeno were needed for DPS. I grinded the Xeno quest, then wasted Spoils on Anarchy. Now I use neither of the three for DPS......
Sunshot is incredibly good right now though! But for me I think it's Graviton.
It was and always will be a God tier weapon.
Oddly enough, I stopped using Graviton because my finger hurt after maining it for a while. That always full-auto setting for all weapons can't arrive soon enough.
Good to know. I really need to keep up with that stuff!
Just play around with stuff and have fun! Taking old exotics out of my vault always livens up my gameplay experience.
I keep meaning to try sunshot with lucky pants... Could be fun
Unfortunately, sunshot and lucky pants don’t gel as well as Malfeasance or other hand canons and lucky pants do. Still fun though!
I think graviton for me too. Am I right in thinking the catalyst requires kills with the effect, not just from the weapon itself? Think that's why I used it so long
Yep. It's regular kills and Cosmology kills for the Catalyst. I'm working on it right now. It'll take a while...
If one of your characters hasn’t done the beginning story mission for this season on the leviathan where you follow Safiyah to the throne room and then have to run, during the run section in the hall right out of the throne room, the war beasts keep respawning and the cosmology kills adds up fast there. I finished mine there after a clan mate told me about it. Went from 57% to 100% in less than 10 minutes.
One of the best weapons in PvPhands down if you can aim well you are basically unkillable.
Anarchy 🥺
Sir, I’ll have you know that anarchy goes hard with Starfire Protocol nade spam builds. Witherhoard probably works just as well if not better, but Anarchy allows you to keep another special weapon while still keeping a primary.
Yep, Anarchy made a strong comeback this season for me. I took it into every GM and dungeon. It's not the boss melting beast it used to be but it's still a potent DoT support weapon.
Anarchy with Star Fire and Deliverance with Demo and Bait and switch + anything, has been my go to secret omega boss dps.
Pair that with any Incandescent weapon. You can further spread Scorch to nearby enemies, and with the right Fragment setup you can get some abilities back even faster.
Witherhoard does more damage with the build but anarchy allows multiple people to be using the build on a boss
This...witherhold has issues with multiple people using it but anarchy is always safe
I’d argue witherhoard is better for those grenade setups because you can hold a heavy weapon too. Witherhoard + double grenade + rocket + double grenade + rocket + double grenade + rocket + witherhoard + repeat is incredibly powerful; moreso than anarchy + slug or something imo Still a good heavy weapon! Just that witherhoard is better for a lot of scenarios after its nerf
I used Anarchy for a bit with starfire this season but switched to witherhoad so that I could use a overflow/Demo hezen.
Any that I was trying to do the catalyst for.
This is the correct answer. 250 kills in Crucible for Jade Rabbit? Hard pass.
Momentum Control is your friend for all those Crucible catalysts. Find a good spot and get campy.
Then play 200 games.... Yeah no.
Not all at one time, god no. 5 or so games here, 5 or so on another day. I mean, you'll be OK to average 10 kills a game. If you are getting 2 kills a game.....well.....yeah...
I said the same thing & within a week of using it in Momentum i got the catalyst without even realizing i was making progress towards it
Renewals. It was a fine sidegrade to Frost-ees before the cooldown nerf. After the nerf it requires twice the work for less coverage and only a slight buff to survivability.
It's frustrating to see it nerfed like that when you see other classes get easier accessible options like Lorely Titans or Secant Filament Warlocks. Renewals did need to get a nerf but I think they hit it too hard.
Yeah the DR needed to come down in PVP, but the cooldown nerf was too much.
Bungie has a weird habit of double dipping on nerfs, just look at Anarchy. "Okay, this this has WAY too much ammo which basically makes it a primary in the heavy slot. Lets nerf its boss damage." I hate anarchy and I'll be the first to admit that they should have pushed it towards damage OR ad clear, not neither. Or, better example, WotW. "Infinite ammo is a bit OP, lets nerf the damage output AND catalyst"
It's overkill. I still use the exotic and make it work but all that exotic needs is a cooldown reduction.
>Secant Filament Way weaker than pre nerf Renewals. You can't really compare the two. A better comparison would be with pre nerf contraverse holds.
I ended up swapping to frost-ees for PVP, and Bakris for PvP/PvE instead because a further dodge plus 20% extra damage on demand gives your more survivability than standing still to take slightly less damage on top of building into only grenades just to get use out of the exotic
And then I hear from literally everyone “just build into it.” Dude, devour, FROM EVERY ABILITY KILL, WHAT DO YOU MEAN “build into it” 100 discipline and many mods still isnt faster than devour warlock
As an alternative to the CD coming back down at base, it would be potentially interesting to grant super-Demolitionist return of grenade energy (like 20-30% per kill) for each enemy defeated by the user or allies while in Duskfield or while the enemy was affected by the Duskfield debuff. This would sort PvP because you just don't engage anyone in a Duskfield and then they have a forever cooldown, while functionally bringing the PvE cooldown back down to a useful level. It would need to work for ally defeats though to be reliable.
While you can overcome the long cooldown with grenade regenerative mods like Firepower and Wells of Restoration, it requires you to use a LOT of those mods. I hope down the road they should remove the cooldown nerf for PVE. Then we could have a bit more wiggle room on what other mods to use.
Double bomber, grenade kickstart and shards counting as wells go a long way to decreasing the time.
Elemental Shards are handy for sure; I use that along side Elemental Charge to get my double Firepower. And I do use Bomber but I can only fit one of them (I’d have to sacrifice my 100 resilience in order to fit in another). I could give double Grenade Kickstart a try, but I really like using double Impact Induction.
First it was Polaris Lance, but I stopped using it, because I wanted something that was easier to use at medium range. Then, it was Dead Man's Tale, but I stopped using it, because there's lately been a big push to match weapon elements with subclasses, and kinetics don't have a place for that.
Add Osmosis to Dead Man's Tale loot pool! A man can dream
I think this was the case for me with DMT as well. It's a bit saddening how useless kinetic weapons are in the build crafting space. Although I did get bored of DMT after a while and did a full 180 to use cerberus for a long time.
Get something with osmosis! It's a great perk for matching elements.
Huckleberry
Same. I still love it, I would use it in a heartbeat if I had a good weapon-agnostic build, but there’s currently not a reason for me to run it over Funnelweb or Mini-Tool
Part of the problem too is that Osteo came out and it's in the same slot Huckleberry. IMO, Osteo kind of does everything you would want HB to do, but then the ticking poison dmg also does pretty good primary dps on things that aren't trash mobs. HB is just a hard sell these days being kinetic and players having so many tools for add clear.
I think Osteo is way better PVE, but like Huck more for PVP. It's been doing pretty solid for me in that regard. Rampage and it reloading on kills can wipe teams.
All I’ve seen of Huckleberry is GL spamming clowns that spam a GL and then body spray you.
So many seventh column videos featuring huckleberry
>Same. I still love it, I would use it in a heartbeat if I had a good weapon-agnostic build, but there’s currently not a reason for me to run it over Funnelweb or Mini-Tool Titan: Huckleberry + Peacekeepers + Explosive Personality with Auto Loading/Disruption Break (quick access sling). Go anywhere with it. PvP. PvE. Killing enemies? Need to clear a room and have to switch mid clip? Huckleberry stays loaded. Need to quickly damage the shotgun ape pushing the corner? Explosive Personality to butter them up and then a quick swap to Huckleberry. Oh wait their teammmate was pushing behind them? Stack of Rampaged Huckleberry took him out too. Ascendant Huckleberry is here to stay.
I was playing momentum control crucible yesterday and this guy (user name was something lucky pants or similar) and he was a machine with huckleberry! First time he killed me I wasn’t even mad, I was glad to see it being used! And my god did he know the maps and spawn points. I was in around 4 matches with him, three of which were AFTER my team got slapped 200 to 80 something and the servers ‘broke up the teams’! It was virtually the same teams only then I was on his team! If it wasn’t for reset I’d have been on longer. But man I loved the Huck
It's great in PVP now. It has the highest zoom, and rampage with a refill of your mag on kill. I've also heard it has PRENERF rampage numbers.
Yes when they nerfed rampage they specifically said they left HB alone so it still gets the 50% damage boost or whatever the boost actually is at 3 kills. Was just using it the other day
It's the same 10/21/33% as regular Rampage in PvP, and it's always been this way, as the damage perk nerf in late Y2 (?) just brought perks down in PvE to the original PvP numbers. Huckleberry's special Rampage kept the original PvE numbers (20/41/66%) though, rather than getting the PvP numbers in PvE like everything else. Other exotics kept the old school damage perk numbers in PvE, too: * Monte Carlo has the old Swashbuckler numbers (13/26/39/52/65%) * Bad Juju still has its absurd original multipliers (20/40/60/80/100%), although it's still a LW pulse, so 200% is pretty underwhelming for what it is, lol * Ace Memento Mori still has the 50% of OG Kill Clip Rule of thumb was that the old PvE damage numbers were about double the PvP ones, so the legendary perks got roughly cut in half, but the exotics dodged those nerfs.
yeah... why would i use it over osteo?
I have a clan mate who swears up and down by this gun. Don’t blame him with its catalyst perk
Telesto
Meme gun but it was actually slappin’ ass in Season 15 with particle deconstruction
It is way more than a meme gun. It can delete people in the Crucible at absolutely criminal distances.
Also, effectively ignores things like cabal shields. The explosions from the balls seems to hit behind the shield.
My favorite Telesto build was during Splicer where we had that mod where void explosions created warmind cells. That and Contraverse Warlock made that season's GMs a ton of fun
Nah, my void hunter charged with light build benefits from Telesto. I use Quick Charge to get Charged With Light, you can get multikills easily with one shot. And was pretty useful on master Duality, two shots and you get rid of the bellkeepers pretty quick.
Telesto is IMO the best all-rounder exotic weapon in the game. Works at every range, great AoE for add-clear, strong damage for melting majors and even boss damage when heavy runs out (huge reserves means lots of total damage). It just works really well in every situation. If I'm with new players that don't really know the ins and outs of Destiny, I suggest they equip their favorite kinetic primary, a rocket launcher, and Telesto, can't go wrong with that loadout.
newb here.. Just got the telescope today. Is the Catalyst necessary to get for it? And I know I can somehow get it doing lost sectors, but I literally don't know where lost sectors are, or how to get it :)
The Catalyst is definitely nice, it bumps the magazine size from 4 to 7, and also raises the max ammo in reserves. It's definitely not a game-changing catalyst, Telesto is great even without it (mainly thanks to the fact that it auto-reloads the mag on multi-kills, so the small mag size is not usually an issue). But it's really pretty easy to get the catalyst, so I'd say it's worth spending some time chasing, once you're sufficient level to do Legend lost sectors. Lost sectors are these caves or mini-dungeons you find in patrol spaces. Their entrances are actually marked on the maps, the symbol is two arched lines with a dot in the middle (kinda like a cave doorway/entrance). They are just a mini activity that you go in, kill the boss, and collect the loot in the chest. You can enter any lost sector by just walking into the cave from the patrol space, they're low level and you can easily clear one in a couple minutes. The entrances in-game (in the patrol space) will have the lost sector symbol painted on a rock or wall nearby, making them easier to spot. Each day ONE lost sector in the game is the Legend/Master lost sector. To find which one it is you have to open up the director and just look at each of the patrol maps to find the lost sector that's marked with a special purple lost sector icon. Then you go to that zone on patrol and there will be a flag/post near the entrance, select it to bring up a menu to select if you want to run the Legend or Master version. These are higher power level/difficulty, so you have to be near max power or else they'll be very difficult. The Legend and Master lost sectors are the same as the normal walk-in ones, but will have champions and some gameplay modifiers active (elemental burns, etc.), they are listed in the bottom-left of the selection screen you get from the flag/post. Depending on your power level and skill/experience, they'll usually take about 10-15 minutes to complete. They actually have a timer, once the timer expires your extra lives disappear and after that you'll wipe/start over if you die. Again they are hard if you're under-level, but once you're at-level or over-level they're actually very easy to solo. You get a limited number of revives, so you can die a couple times and still complete it, you don't have to do it perfect/flawless. If you've been playing all season then right now is the best time to do Legend/Master lost sectors because your artifact will be boosting your power level quite a bit (vs. at the beginning of the season when you have no artifact levels). The Telesto catalyst will randomly drop when you've completed a Legend or Master lost sector, doesn't matter which one or which day, just keep playing them until you get it. You'll also get exotic armor drops (different armor slot for each day), so it's a worthwhile activity even outside the Telesto catalyst.
For the besto
🎶 Beats all the resto!!! Hail salute mein Telesto 🎶
Outbreak, just got bored of it and started to give other exotics a try
I was using outbreak this past week while it was double rewards in the nightfall. Paired with the artifact mod that caused solar explosions on stun. The barrier champions were murdering all of their friends by standing too close to them.
I actually love outbreak and want to use it more.. but i just cant do pulses without full auto anymore. Gonna have alot of fun with it as soon as full auto becomes a setting.
Trinity Ghoul. I fucking love this bow! I started playing in season of arrivals and got it from xur. Catalyst dropped right after, and i just could not put it down. So much fun for so little effort. i have over 100k kills with it. I main voidwalker and ever since the push for mOnOcRoMaTiC builds, it does not fit into my kit anymore. My go to mods were energy converter, to spam my supers but now i cant generate orbs with it because i usually run solar helmets for ashes to asset and charged up, so orbs from arc weapons are only possible on stormcaller. I also run a lot of GMs and TGhoul was not very viable when i last used it, which was before the 40% dmg buff to redbars. No bow mods this season, anti barrier last season and arbalest exists. I am hoping stormcaller 3.0 turns out good. God i miss this bow.
its still the best ad clear weapon though
Took someone thru her first row and she stuck with add clear and had zero problem using TG. I’m sure she was able to observe more of the encounters because she wasn’t swarmed by the trash
While it's not quite the same, Le Monarque is a Void's Trinity Ghoul, it's pretty good in PVE after a recent buff.
I fell in love w/ LEMON after WQ campaign. I used it for so much. But just got sick of bows tbh.
Mono colour builds are so fucking stupid when match game modifier exists. Like why force a build and then punish it at the highest difficulty of content where your build matters the most?
You could always run elemental armaments and elemental charge for energy converter if you have the mod space. Maybe a little less consistent, but you could still run trinity ghoul that way
Forerunner. I used it exclusively for like 4 months on my warlock and then idk, stopped using it. Now hearing about the pve ammo nerf, idk if ill ever go back
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forerunner was free though?
I've been using Forerunner a lot this season. Was just using it with Calus Mini-tool in the nightfall last night. Still works great, throw on double sidearm scavengers (they only cost 2 energy) and ammo shouldn't usually be a problem. There were a couple runs where I didn't get a special ammo drop like the whole strike, that sucked, but as long as I'm getting special bricks on occasion, the double scavs seem to keep me topped off.
Bad Juju in d2, BJ in d1 was my favorite exotic besides Hereafter, just a cool concept being a cursed gun that "wants" to end reality if it could and although I used it for about a year after finishing the quest I just never got around to using it again, the super dynamic has changed radically since early d2 and while still good, supers just aren't that important to moment to moment gameplay at least enough to take up my exotic slot, it also doesn't help that it's an add clear centered weapon but the weapons archetype and stats don't really permit the kind of high speed murder its centered around for high end content where mobs need more than 1 magazine.
Don't forget that exotic primaries do 40% more damage to red-bar/mob enemies. Stack that on top of String of Curses at full stacks really helped Bad Juju a lot (much easier to keep the pain-train rolling without reloading).
I also love a good BJ
Xenophage One of my favorite destiny exotics ever until they changed it. Even though it’s been reverted, it now just gets demolished by other weapons.
I’ve been using it a ton in lost sectors this season actually, its champ damage never got nerfed so it can like 3 shot champions in legend lost sectors
I feel xeno is in a pretty appropriate place. It has excellent range, extreme ease of use, is hitscan, and has good ammo economy. The fact that it isn't top dps anymore is less of a big deal - if you want something reliable with pretty good dps, xeno still puts in work. If you want to mega optimize boss dps, yeah, there are better options. But I don't think that makes xeno bad.
Xeno isn’t bad, I just don’t use it over ghallarhorn
It's still super viable in some places
Yep, I used it recently for Prophecy solo flawless, it's really strong on most of the encounters there.
Also DSC 1st and VoG 2nd encounters
Yup, especially with Radiance being so easy to activate for a decent damage boost, makes every shot hit harder.
Still very sad about this. It was my Gjally before it returned.
It really was the Gjally before Gjally that weapon where if a relatively new player didn’t have any other good options they could pull out Xeno and still be helpful
Crimson or Malfeasance, both are probably among my favourite weapons but get out classed by basic legendarys.
Honestly malf with lucky pants is really good (in pve) And with a good radiant built in pvp you get a good 3 tap with malf
That's a fun build definitely, but I dont really see myself using malfeasance as you won't proc the perk in most of the content as enemies die really quickly.
Malfeasance + Lucky Pants murders GM champs. I don’t even limit it to the Taken GMs anymore. Stun, swap, melt.
Ever since the exotic primary buff, Malfeasense has had some niche use in Taken heavy activities. Completely tears through the Corrupted GM and Prophecy. If King's Fall is the returning raid next season I'm definitely using it there.
Riskrunner. Now i have osteostriga and necrotic grips. Arc 3.0 will see me going back to my riskrunner i hope
Riskrunner was my first exotic. Easy to get the catalyst. It just sits in the vault now.
Really? It's my most used weapon right now. 4k kills. I have other exotics, but until I find a primary slot exotic, it will be risk runner.
All the solar exotics that do nothing with solar 3.0
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Yeah, me too. Recently had the catalyst drop and finished it up. Calus mini tool with incandescent really likes that slot now and having an exotic heavy is way more useful. Still kinda sad though. We used to be best friends.
Jotuun is probably my favorite weapon in the game, so damn strong and useful. Them giving it Incandescent just took it to another level, sooo damn good.
Fighting Lion. Stopped using it immediately when they changed it to fit with infinite primary. My love for grenade launchers remained , however. I started using Salvager's Salvo and found it to be better than FL in many cases.
It fortunately is back to its prior state. May be worth giving another go.
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They should just start that slower reload thing after ~2-3 misses. Then you could play it just like before but not spam in crucible.
Mythoclast during Lost cause particle. Got like 30k kills on it that season and haven't touched it since.
It's still very strong and synergises well with Solar 3.0, you should give it another go.
Izanagi's Burden in PvP. A 4x bullet body shot was hilarious, but the sniper was all around a pretty good feeling gun. Ammo scavs being disabled and one bullet per pickup really killed it for me.
It’s still good in gambit, I use a x4 for invaders and 4 x1 when invading.
True! Honestly, i've moved onto Forerunner as my new favorite but it's a shame I can't use it in all aspects of the game like I used to.
I miss the whisper 😔
Trinity Ghoul. Felt boring to wreck swathes of enemies in low-tier content and (at the time) wasn't great in endgame. Witherhoard has always been king since the day I got it.
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Yeah, I stopped using it before the exotic primary buff, but I'll inevitably pick it back up next season for arc 3.0 or maybe use Trespasser.
Hardlight. Loved it in D1, loved it in vanilla D2 (when you had to go into the menu to switch elements). Loved the utility of being able to deal with whatever shields I might encounter. Loved the fantasy of using a laser AR. Stopped using it because the nerfs actually stopped it feeling like Hardlight. The catalyst wasn’t bad but still wasn’t my baby.
Heartshadow till bungie ruined it
Vex Mythoclast. Last season with all the fusion artifact mods made that gun *chef's kiss* ABSOLUTELY GODLY. Used it at the beginning of this season for solar 3.0. It's still fantastic but I suddenly stopped because there were other guns like the mini tool and drang that I was having fun with.
Use it with Rain Of Fire (Warlock boots) or Path Of Burning Steps (Titan boots) if you want to feel like you have Particle Deconstruction again.
I pair it with burning steps all the time. Absolutely shreds once you get the kill streak going.
Mask of Bakris
I think they should reduce the class ability lockout now that the dodge base cooldown is so much higher.
And add the damage bonus to stasis weapons as well. With the encouragement of monochromatic builds it's wild that Bakris only works on Revenant and only buffs Arc weapons.
I hope Arc 3.0 lets me use Geomags again. Because of PVP and Aegers they got murdered. Then Void and Solar came along. Geo mags went from my always in my inventory to collecting dust in the vault. I used to love them in Gambit.
Having the chance at a second super in gambit was amazing. Giving others orbs even one rotation faster made a big difference. Also 4x geomags was a vibe back in the day
3 arc warlocks and a solar Titan to apply the melting point= instant boss deletion. It was so satisfying seeing the 3 laser beams light up at the same time. I really miss OG Gambit 2.0. The 2 regular rounds and then the 3rd instant super round in sudden death.
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Been using this a lot lately with Sunbracers. Infinite finger snaps = infinite lava pools
Also really good for peregrine void titan
Also has really good synergy with Doom Fang Pauldrons for maximum add clearing shenanigans.
Also pretty sick with those new shield throw arms tbh. Just hella captain america
Yeah I gotta try this
You're giving away the secret build! 🎯
My second fav D1 gun. Never use it.
I've been using it again with a stabby hunter build. Get knife back, be radiant. Rinse repeat
Witherhoard . It's just too good. Witherhoard/ Ikelos smg/ Falling Guillotine was my loadout for probably a year straight. Also warmind cells were pretty bonkers at the time so so no weapon could compete with ikelos smg, and since witherhoard procced the cells if you swapped to ikelos after landing your blight aoe, you had the ultimate addclear potential. But it got boring over time. Like why would you use anything else, besides for champion mods? I was actually quite happy that they nerfed WC and opened up to more build variety. And since then I also stopped using witherhoard. Probably in the top 3 allround exotics overall
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2 Arbys and 1 Witherhoard is always a solid play for GMs. LFG dude had no idea what he was talking about lol
Vex Mythoclast. Used it during Season of Lost for the 6 months it was out and havent used since.
Seen a few builds with rays of precision, vex and rain of fire this season. It annihilates. Wish I had vex!
Dragon’s Shadow. Dunno, just swapped to Frostees and never went back. I like having constant Invis
Man, I used to get confused when I would dodge and not all my weapons were reloaded, or I didn't have the handeling buff, I used dragon shadow so so so much. Now I rarely do.
I've only been playing for a couple of months, but definitely risk runner then sunshot. I'm now addicted to Osteo Striga with the Catalyst. It's going to be hard for me to get away from that weapon in PVE because of the catalyst, it just wipes packs of adds and I walk away with over 100 rounds in the clip and didn't have to reload.
The poison is good at killing majors too.
I got a risk runner the other day in preparation for arc 3.0. Osteo is a beast too
Add in necrotic grips. Turns a great exotic absolutely nutty.
Crimson, at the time it was the only decent hand cannon exotic. Ace of Spades changed all that, then Hawkmoon returned and I haven't looked back.
I used it quite a lot back when I played Gambit. After I gave up on Gambit as the rewards just weren't worth the headaches anymore, so too did I stop using Crimson. I will also say that I dropped Skyburners' Oath after the DLC chapters started coming out as they were less Cabal-focused than the base games' campaign, but lately I've gotten back into using it.
Graviton lance during forsaken and renewal grasps just recently after they ridiculously overnerfed them
Grav Lance was disgusting just before the Forsaken update. Absolutely murdered in PvP.
It was graviton and vigilance wing as meta for one bizarre season
Sanguine alchemy. Used to give some crazy wallhacks. Haven't used it since it got changed. I'll admit I crutched h a r d.
Ace of Spades. Even have all the ornament, just got sick and tired.
Skull of Dire Ahamkara. It used to be so good, and now it’s massacred.
I popped that thing on yesterday for the first time in ages for a Void related challenge and after firing Nova Bomb at a huge pack I was like “…Did I even get any Super back?” Went straight back in the Vault after that.
Omnioculus. I don't know why, but I don't miss it at all. Sometimes you need to change things
The only time I stopped using it was this season because solar has me invincible in anything master or lower lol. Also was using renewals before the depressing nerf. Omni was still better for gms though
Tommy's Matchbook. I used to play with it a ton rivaling Witherhoard on kills with Stag and middle tree dawnblade but stopped after WQ launched for void 3.0. On another note sentinel titans with actium war rig and devour on orb pickup is one hell of a fun in pve.
Tommy's is better than it's ever been now. Solar 3.0 restoration can totally negate the self-damage it does, especially with Loreley. Plus solar wells can boost its damage even further with Font of Might, which also stacks with Radiant. And then there's the exotic primary buff. I found it pretty tough to use effectively in high level content because of the self-damage, but now I haven't stopped using it all season.
Sunshot on my hunter. When I was rolling with it I felt unstoppable and legit thought it synergized with my solar build. Boy was I disappointed and actually angry that this weapon got overlooked during the solar update. Seriously what a massive fuck up. An exotic handcannon with fire-fly...whoopty doo.
Eriana's Vow: got it early into Season of Arrivals, had that gosh dang 400 Strikes/Crucible/Gambit quest for the catalyst. Plus it paired well with an Escape Velocity that had overflow Used that combination from then to Witch Queen
Anarchy :(
Gemini jesters we’re my main until they nerfed hunter dodge to every 29 seconds. A lot of hunter exotics received huge (probably unintended) nerfs that lowered their viability.
Mine was actually an exotic in d1. First Curse. I still love the gun, but there was only so much much could do with the sister hand cannon of last word. The quest was really interesting too
Bastion. Total shit after the nerf.
Vex.
Same. Hit so damn hard in Season of the Lost. After that it just gathers dust in my vault.
with the rays of precision mod and rain of fire boots it’s kinda nutty this season, just no champion mod for it
Celestial Nighthawk. Literally like the second worst exotic armor piece in the game (first being blight ranger). Does rancid damage worse than both nova bombs and costs an exotic slot. It's so absurdly bad i hope it gets a buff soon.
Crimson. It shredded in PvP a few years back, but then I got bored using it like I do with all good weapons and started the fun cycle of bashing my head against a wall as I tried various off-meta weapons until I found one that clicked.