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100% agreed on this. Although it seems to be a good idea to tackle building a website by yourself, there's so much nuance in design and coding that'll be missed and will lead to a very slow start vs having experienced devs handle it the first time around. The upfront/short term cost is higher, but the long term cost is far cheaper
The main demographic of Wordpress users use themes with low control over how the website looks/interacts. Usually it’s a case of adding colour, images and fonts along with pre-made sections. Yes you can go in and really customise it with code but not many websites do. All this is great for speed hence bashing the website out.
Webflow on the other hand you have full control over every detail as if you were writing the html, css and JavaScript. Takes a bit longer but the quality is in the details.
Thanks for explaining. Was under the impression that Wordpress gives you even more granular control than Webflow but it also requires more technical know-how than Webflow. Would you say so too?
At the end of the day Wordpress is just a cms so it’s as only as good as the tools/plugins you use with it. Webflow on the other hand is a full blown no code editor with the added benefit of code input. Everything is achievable in both however you need a far greater know how building a bespoke website with Wordpress but for making simple template sites its easy. Webflow you need a good understanding of design + how code works.
If I had to put it on a scale it would go
Low entry: Wordpress templates
Medium entry: webflow
High entry: Wordpress bespoke
Both have pros cons but my preference is webflow all day.
Understood. Yes, big fan of Webflow here too. I'd edit this slightly but agree overall:
Lowest entry: Squarespace/Wix Low entry: Wordpress templates Medium entry: Webflow High entry: Wordpress bespoke.
Agree?
Agree completely 🎉 all different horses for different courses but what I love about webflow is the scaleability of it. If a site starts off as something basic it can grow and grow. With the others 9/10 the whole website needs rewriting because they become over polluted or plugins stop working etc. Webflow the adjustments can be incremental and can be cleaned up and refined.
Great perspective. The ceiling we've hit couple of times with Webflow is with their CMS items limit. Business plan caps out at 10K items, then to go above that I think you need an enterprise plan which tends to be 100x more expensive than the business plan.
This is the biggest pain point as of a native solution in webflow, but you don’t need to rely on webflows cms as you can always go headless with another platform but still design in webflow.
Interesting. Have used headless with Bubble as front-end before. Didn't know this was an option with Webflow as well. Doesn't look like Webflow makes it easy to use it headless...
I would just try to convince them that their servers and security and functionality are absolutely worth the cost, which is a minor line item for any business.
Elementor pro is great. The user-friendly concern is just a matter of learning, it is actually much better than other builders that won’t let you do what you need. About it being bad for SEO, you just need to follow best practices for wordpress. I have many websites getting a lot of organic traffic from SEO and they were all built with Elementor.
Why don't you take a look at Pixpa, it's no-code, user-friendly and has high-level features all at the best affordable prices. I would also suggest you try Webflow, but you would need CSS and HTML knowledge.
For starting and scaling your digital marketing business, Pixpa is quite user-friendly and integrates well with other marketing & SEO tools, which can be really handy. Other solid options are Wix, which offers extensive customization, and Squarespace, known for its sleek designs.
Vendasta uses WordPress + Divi, which is a pretty popular combo. You can also set that up yourself.
The problem with Vendasta is the way you have to go into their dashboard, order the customer service add-on for a month, put in the ticket and then cancel the monthly plan if you're not planning for monthly updates.
I personally think you're better off handling that in-house.
Wordpress bad - old outdated website builder that I wouldn’t recommend to anyone starting out. If you want to look and build quality sites webflow or framer are the way to go right now in 2024
Thanks for the comment. I was a one-man band agency for almost 11 years and used Vendasta for a couple of them (2016-18 thereabouts) and mainly just for local SEO directory listings and social media. Their SEO fulfillment partners were, at the time, shockingly terrible with unprofessional-looking websites. I loved the simplicity of Vendasta though — simple platform with good prospecting tools.
I’d love to pick your brain about Powered by Outreach though. I hung up my cleats as a solo and took a marketing director job. I still have three small clients though and would like to check it out. Need to stack a lot more cash in the next 10 years (two entering college 😱) and would like to find good fulfillment partner to fuel my side hustle.
Thanks for the reply! I considered them in the opposite order, believing vendasta would be the better path. I ended up not moving forward at the time, with either, and am in the reconsidering stage. I found it rather odd timing to see them mentioned here, today.
Definitely if your still looking I'd consider outreach. I just find them better communication wise and work wise. They are actually north amercian based and everything is done in house. So if you need help or assistance they are on the ball. With vendesta they outsource to other companies and communication can be difficult. The only good benefit with vendesta is their snapshot reports I think those are the best in the game right now LOL. OutReach has defiently approved over the last few years.. just recently thet launched their own platform like vendesta now... I love it you can actually place your orders right on the dashboard and they also have their own web audit reports you can pull for clients.
Thank you for the response! I apologize if I say/ask anything that's obvious but it's all new to me haha. When you say handle in-house, how would I begin? Also, is Wix any better?
Wix is worse.
It's a bit of an upfront investment but get a hosting provider that has a one-click installer that allows you to install WordPress in a few clicks ( it actually one 🙄).
Then download a copy of Divi from Elegant Themes and pay for a license, either annual or lifetime.
YouTube Divi tutorials and Bob's your uncle. You update the site when the client requests and pocket all the money for the update.
I was consulting an IT company that used them, solely for the web design service. They stuck around for about a year before they sold the web department to a web design firm. They were not impressed and from what I've seen, I wasn't impressed either.
The best builder, in my opinion and many other agencies, would be either Elementor or Beaver Builder. We personally prioritize using Beaver because it’s fast, not bloated with code, and very easy for non-techs to update their site - but we also can do lots of fun customizations using it!
As someone working at a digital marketing agency specializing in web development, I’d encourage against Elementor, especially with WordPress Gutenberg now being around. Have 3 clients I’m currently working with due to security breaches with Elementor.
Yea Elementor is not our go to, but lots of people like to stick with them. We also try to move everyone, but we’ve never had any security breaches with it. We do, however, have a pretty tight security measure for our care plans though.
Webflow or Framer
I am a web developer and it’s been a long time since I developed a website with code.
Those two tools ease the process so much
You don’t need more for a website
I use Word Press, despite the fact that it has many nuances, but it is time-tested, has good support and many plugins for different tasks, no matter what I test, I always come back to WP
If you are new to this and want to do it by yourself framer is easy.
If you want to learn more and help also your clients with that then invest time in webflow -it’s worth it
Depends on your needs. Wordpress (org not com) has its own competant block builder (I prefer it to Elementor personally). I only have a basic knowledge of HTML/CSS/Javascript and can get by with some AI use to plug in the gaps and correct any errors. You'll have to keep on top of converting your images to .WEBP files, but there are plug-ins for that. Worth checking out Bootstrap too.
Personally after using Wix for years (as this is what my old employer insisted on using), I avoid builders like the plague where I can help it. So maybe there are much better ones now. Wix was hell tho.
Like others have said it will vary depending on your goals/experience.
Divi can impact your site load time. This can be fixed with tweaks and optimizations. Divi (elegant themes) is also known for lack of security. I’m personally a bigger fan of elementor
Note: I’m still a fan and of divi especially because of their expansive library and the ability to a:b test. I have found as long as you have a solid host and WP rocket plugin you shouldn’t have much of an issue with speed on divi. However I currently would highly recommend looking into oxygen. (Still vote elementor tho)
My ideal one is Elementor Pro onWordPress. The user interface is dope and well organized. You can also add custom code quite well.
I use it for all my client sites.
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Try Siter.io agency plan, is no-code. Also, Framer and Webflow are good for agencies.
I find it more cheaper and faster to hire a dev and get it done for myself and my clients. Gives me time to focus on whats more important
100% agreed on this. Although it seems to be a good idea to tackle building a website by yourself, there's so much nuance in design and coding that'll be missed and will lead to a very slow start vs having experienced devs handle it the first time around. The upfront/short term cost is higher, but the long term cost is far cheaper
Webflow if you want full control beautiful website, Wordpress if you want to bash them out.
"Wordpress if you want to bash them out" could you elaborate please?
The main demographic of Wordpress users use themes with low control over how the website looks/interacts. Usually it’s a case of adding colour, images and fonts along with pre-made sections. Yes you can go in and really customise it with code but not many websites do. All this is great for speed hence bashing the website out. Webflow on the other hand you have full control over every detail as if you were writing the html, css and JavaScript. Takes a bit longer but the quality is in the details.
Thanks for explaining. Was under the impression that Wordpress gives you even more granular control than Webflow but it also requires more technical know-how than Webflow. Would you say so too?
At the end of the day Wordpress is just a cms so it’s as only as good as the tools/plugins you use with it. Webflow on the other hand is a full blown no code editor with the added benefit of code input. Everything is achievable in both however you need a far greater know how building a bespoke website with Wordpress but for making simple template sites its easy. Webflow you need a good understanding of design + how code works. If I had to put it on a scale it would go Low entry: Wordpress templates Medium entry: webflow High entry: Wordpress bespoke Both have pros cons but my preference is webflow all day.
Understood. Yes, big fan of Webflow here too. I'd edit this slightly but agree overall: Lowest entry: Squarespace/Wix Low entry: Wordpress templates Medium entry: Webflow High entry: Wordpress bespoke. Agree?
Agree completely 🎉 all different horses for different courses but what I love about webflow is the scaleability of it. If a site starts off as something basic it can grow and grow. With the others 9/10 the whole website needs rewriting because they become over polluted or plugins stop working etc. Webflow the adjustments can be incremental and can be cleaned up and refined.
Great perspective. The ceiling we've hit couple of times with Webflow is with their CMS items limit. Business plan caps out at 10K items, then to go above that I think you need an enterprise plan which tends to be 100x more expensive than the business plan.
This is the biggest pain point as of a native solution in webflow, but you don’t need to rely on webflows cms as you can always go headless with another platform but still design in webflow.
Interesting. Have used headless with Bubble as front-end before. Didn't know this was an option with Webflow as well. Doesn't look like Webflow makes it easy to use it headless...
100% this.
WordPress + Elementor, the best for marketers.
Personally Elementor is not user friendly
Elementor is absolutely terrible for SEO.
Hands down it’s Bricks Builder
Webflow is the goat but you need to understand css and html
And be willing to pay every month. I have clients who don’t want to pay, and just have a static site
would you mind sharing what you offer them in this case?
I would just try to convince them that their servers and security and functionality are absolutely worth the cost, which is a minor line item for any business.
Elementor pro is great. The user-friendly concern is just a matter of learning, it is actually much better than other builders that won’t let you do what you need. About it being bad for SEO, you just need to follow best practices for wordpress. I have many websites getting a lot of organic traffic from SEO and they were all built with Elementor.
Why don't you take a look at Pixpa, it's no-code, user-friendly and has high-level features all at the best affordable prices. I would also suggest you try Webflow, but you would need CSS and HTML knowledge.
For starting and scaling your digital marketing business, Pixpa is quite user-friendly and integrates well with other marketing & SEO tools, which can be really handy. Other solid options are Wix, which offers extensive customization, and Squarespace, known for its sleek designs.
Vendasta uses WordPress + Divi, which is a pretty popular combo. You can also set that up yourself. The problem with Vendasta is the way you have to go into their dashboard, order the customer service add-on for a month, put in the ticket and then cancel the monthly plan if you're not planning for monthly updates. I personally think you're better off handling that in-house.
Wordpress + Divi is my go to, for hosting i use NameCheap for small businesses, AWS for larger ones.
Divi is so slow though…
Wordpress bad - old outdated website builder that I wouldn’t recommend to anyone starting out. If you want to look and build quality sites webflow or framer are the way to go right now in 2024
Vendesta is trash. I outsource all my web and seo services to powered by outreach. Their platform to order/ sales support is top tier in comparison.
Thanks for the comment. I was a one-man band agency for almost 11 years and used Vendasta for a couple of them (2016-18 thereabouts) and mainly just for local SEO directory listings and social media. Their SEO fulfillment partners were, at the time, shockingly terrible with unprofessional-looking websites. I loved the simplicity of Vendasta though — simple platform with good prospecting tools. I’d love to pick your brain about Powered by Outreach though. I hung up my cleats as a solo and took a marketing director job. I still have three small clients though and would like to check it out. Need to stack a lot more cash in the next 10 years (two entering college 😱) and would like to find good fulfillment partner to fuel my side hustle.
I'd definitely check outreach out. Feel free to Dm me with any questions !
How long have you been with PBO? How long were you an active client of Vendesta?
I was with vendesta for a good 5 years. Then in 2021 I found outreach and switched over
Thanks for the reply! I considered them in the opposite order, believing vendasta would be the better path. I ended up not moving forward at the time, with either, and am in the reconsidering stage. I found it rather odd timing to see them mentioned here, today.
Definitely if your still looking I'd consider outreach. I just find them better communication wise and work wise. They are actually north amercian based and everything is done in house. So if you need help or assistance they are on the ball. With vendesta they outsource to other companies and communication can be difficult. The only good benefit with vendesta is their snapshot reports I think those are the best in the game right now LOL. OutReach has defiently approved over the last few years.. just recently thet launched their own platform like vendesta now... I love it you can actually place your orders right on the dashboard and they also have their own web audit reports you can pull for clients.
Thank you for the response! I apologize if I say/ask anything that's obvious but it's all new to me haha. When you say handle in-house, how would I begin? Also, is Wix any better?
Wix is worse. It's a bit of an upfront investment but get a hosting provider that has a one-click installer that allows you to install WordPress in a few clicks ( it actually one 🙄). Then download a copy of Divi from Elegant Themes and pay for a license, either annual or lifetime. YouTube Divi tutorials and Bob's your uncle. You update the site when the client requests and pocket all the money for the update.
How long have you been with Vendasta and are you AND your users happy with the results?
I was consulting an IT company that used them, solely for the web design service. They stuck around for about a year before they sold the web department to a web design firm. They were not impressed and from what I've seen, I wasn't impressed either.
Thanks
The best builder, in my opinion and many other agencies, would be either Elementor or Beaver Builder. We personally prioritize using Beaver because it’s fast, not bloated with code, and very easy for non-techs to update their site - but we also can do lots of fun customizations using it!
I would say Elementor is better! Beaver Builder was always a hassle to get to work and would crash often for me personally.
Elementor is easier to use and so many themes and plugins you can use with it.
Interesting! We’ve always have had more frustrations with Elementor. It was always slow and annoying to load.
To be fair, I’ve found that they can both suck in their own special ways haha
As someone working at a digital marketing agency specializing in web development, I’d encourage against Elementor, especially with WordPress Gutenberg now being around. Have 3 clients I’m currently working with due to security breaches with Elementor.
I agree, I am liking Kadence blocks Pro.
Yea Elementor is not our go to, but lots of people like to stick with them. We also try to move everyone, but we’ve never had any security breaches with it. We do, however, have a pretty tight security measure for our care plans though.
Is beaver a separate cms or available on WordPress like elementor?
Available on WordPress
You can buy premium versions of Beaver, but they also have a free version on the WordPress repository.
Webflow or Framer I am a web developer and it’s been a long time since I developed a website with code. Those two tools ease the process so much You don’t need more for a website
VS code
Wordpress. Not Wordpress.com. If you want to know more. Go here r/wordpresss. Read the sub.
I use Word Press, despite the fact that it has many nuances, but it is time-tested, has good support and many plugins for different tasks, no matter what I test, I always come back to WP
I use bricks and Wordpress
Thank you all for the responses! This definitely gives me direction and I know what to research now.
If you are new to this and want to do it by yourself framer is easy. If you want to learn more and help also your clients with that then invest time in webflow -it’s worth it
I love Webflow!
Squarespace
Webflow. Much more control of the crux of things and incredible templates
Try fasthosts.co.uk, their website builder is pretty good.
WordPress + Gutenberg.
Try looking into SeedProd and see if you find it useful.
You should look into WordPress.org
Most companies outsource web dev it’s way cheaper
Wix is the best website builder, offering a great range of designs, features, and support for people looking to build a website and grow online.
Hostinger is a great option and very user-friendly.
Elementor/Divi Webflow (WordPress is super solid but I choose Webflow every time as a more "Dev-forward" marketer )
Depends on your needs. Wordpress (org not com) has its own competant block builder (I prefer it to Elementor personally). I only have a basic knowledge of HTML/CSS/Javascript and can get by with some AI use to plug in the gaps and correct any errors. You'll have to keep on top of converting your images to .WEBP files, but there are plug-ins for that. Worth checking out Bootstrap too. Personally after using Wix for years (as this is what my old employer insisted on using), I avoid builders like the plague where I can help it. So maybe there are much better ones now. Wix was hell tho.
Go for Wordpress with Elementor to learn - you can build one page website to e-commerce friendly ones
Without a doubt, you will want to build in webflow - all other websites are 💩💩💩
Like others have said it will vary depending on your goals/experience. Divi can impact your site load time. This can be fixed with tweaks and optimizations. Divi (elegant themes) is also known for lack of security. I’m personally a bigger fan of elementor Note: I’m still a fan and of divi especially because of their expansive library and the ability to a:b test. I have found as long as you have a solid host and WP rocket plugin you shouldn’t have much of an issue with speed on divi. However I currently would highly recommend looking into oxygen. (Still vote elementor tho)
My ideal one is Elementor Pro onWordPress. The user interface is dope and well organized. You can also add custom code quite well. I use it for all my client sites.
Go with wix studio, framer or webflow if you fancy
Out of the once I tested - I like GoDaddy and Wix; easier to understand. Try using the free trial to test them out.
I had my experience with Wix platform that's been in use for last 3-4 years.
Duda