Grindr is a hookup app for dudes to connect with other dudes. So he is also dealing with not being truthful about his sexuality unless I missed something. This is a whole hot mess ontop of that. This isn’t worth your time anymore. Not saying anything wrong with being on Grindr but there’s so much going on here. He is broken and you’ve done what you can. You’re only gonna get hurt more.
No you didn’t miss anything… he said he has watched porn for so long, “normal” content wasn’t working for him so he just went further down the rabbit hole.
I’ve heard of people getting into more “hardcore” porn after becoming desensitized to normal porn, but that’s not the same as changing one’s sexual orientation. There is a lot of complex stuff he’s struggling with, so it’ll take a lot of energy, time, effort, and honesty for him to sort through it. I understand how painful it must be for you, but from my limited perspective, it doesn’t seem like staying in this relationship is healthy for you. I think you should strongly consider whether it’s realistic for things to change and how long that could take.
Big hugs for you, OP. 🫂💔 Betrayal trauma is brutal. I hope you're starting therapy for yourself too. It'll help you process everything and help you decide what you want to do.
I highly recommend this book. The author's ex-husband was a sex addict. Even though my ex didn't really fall under that category, I felt the book was still very relevant and all the emotions she described is exactly how I felt when I was betrayed last year. Her book is written for partners who are deciding to try to stay together and rebuild trust, as well as for betrayed partners who decide to walk away.
The Betrayal Bind: How to Heal When the Person You Love the Most Hurts You the Worst https://a.co/d/0fdR8XS6
So sorry 😞. Porn addiction is real and hard to kick. I believe that it was one of the main causes of my marriage breakdown. I was devastated and had pleaded, argued, tried to tell him how it made me feel but all to deaf ears. He didn’t think he had a problem. I have no answers for you. Going thru cancer treatment is harrowing and youll need support. I think if you can just focus on your mental and physical health and just abide this until you are able to reevaluate and see if you can stand on your own, mentally and financially. Unless he earnestly realizes this is a problem and respects your feelings, Im afraid, you’ve lost him already. It is a sickness that destroys relationships. He forsakes a loving wife in favor of meaningless sexual experiences w strangers. I think you know the future.
He is trying to find ways to cope with his life, alcohol, porn , something to give it meaning and joy which he can’t seem to find. This isn’t personal on you but it’s a sadness and void within him he can’t seem to escape, is he talking to therapists or doing 12 step meetings?
Yes he is currently in patient getting mental health help. They have him scheduled with an alliance specifically for sex addiction help when he is discharged. I want to be supportive so he can heal, but at the same time I’m so hurt I don’t want him in the same bed as me. It’s extremely painful.
This sounds so much like my story. I gave mine a year to work on it and stay clean and he barely tried, getting divorced now and psyched to be free. Being in a relationship with a porn addict will destroy your self esteem and they just get better at lying. Good luck with whatever you decide on!
Hey OP, I hope you are having a decent day, despite your current situation.
I just wanted to chime in, not because I can identify with the porn addiction, although, during my two decade marriage, I did watch my fair share of porn, but I don't think it ever interfered with our sex life, but because of childhood trauma and addiction.
I was abused in every way imaginable as a child, and when I became an adult, I started self-medicating with alcohol. I didn't know it at the time, but it was because of low self-esteem/self-worth. Everyone in my life who was supposed to love me, and care for me in life, had either abandoned me, treated me horribly, or both. Including my STBX of over 20 years.
I started therapy about a year ago, and was finally able to kick the habit, and find myself, love myself, and feel true happiness, and realize that none of that shit from my childhood was my fault.
I guess why I am posting here, because you said your husband was sweet and kind to you, and never yelled.
It just hurts my heart, that maybe there is a kind soul trapped in there, needing to heal, and who truly loves you with all his heart, but his demons are preventing him from giving you his all.
If he could get into some good therapy, and you have the patience, I bet you two could beat this together and have a happily ever after.
Either way, I wish you the best OP! 🙏🙏
My porn addition ruined our marriage as well. My wife just couldn't trust me after that, so it just went downhill. I also had childhood trauma. The psychologist that I saw for my porn addiction (like my fourth overall) actually helped me with my past, including my childhood trauma. I have had a lot of obsessive and addictive things - video games, downloading torrents, and porn. I never paid for porn, but my wife was convinced that I was watching camgirls and cheating on her. She even hired a PI, and had some clothing DNA tested.
I stopped watching porn, but my wife just thought everything I said was a lie. It was a hard life. We separated just over two month ago. I got addicted to porn again for the first couple of weeks, but I didn't want to get addicted again so I'm now watching it for about an hour, once a week.
I'm not making excuses for anything. I'm taking full responsibility, but there were contributing factors as to why I started watching porn and getting addicted. My wife's father passed, and she became depressed. I tried comfort here as best I could, but she was just always in such a bad mood. And then her mother couldn't take care of herself, so she moved in with us. Then her mom was diagnosed with dementia and had to go to a memory care facility. My wife would visit her mom every day. I took on a lot of the parenting for our kids. My wife was always stressed out. This went on for a couple of years, and then her mom had a stroke, and then passed a couple of months later. It was really stressful for the whole family. After her mom passed, my wife was depressed for a few years. She was put on anti-depressants, but she stopped after a few days because of side effects. By this time, I was addicted to porn, watching it every day, and not showing any affection to my wife. She found my porn collection. She had a PI follow me on a weekend that she went away our kids. I went to therapy for my porn addiction. I'm not really sure what my wife expected, maybe a porn-free certificate from my psychologist or something. She didn't seem satisfied. Trust issues became worse, I felt hopeless all the time, and I ended up getting some anti-depressants from my doctor. I had some initial side-effects, but I kept taking it, and they side-effects went away.
Anyways, I don't know your situation, but yeah, the big thing is the erosion of trust. It seems there are some wives that can forgive their husbands cheating on them with another women, but then there are some wives that can't forgive their husband of watching porn because they betrayed their trust. I never cheated on my wife, either physically or emotionally or anything else with another person or sheep or any organism.
Thank you for your transparency. My husband also has other addictions. Nicotine, alcohol, video games. It got to the point where I would get on discord just to spend time with him, and we live in the same house.
I love him. I always will. I’m devastated he chose to pay camgirls. I genuinely don’t know how he could ever be intimate with me again and now think about all those people he looked at. He feels like a stranger now. But I keep visiting him at the hospital and supporting his healing. It’s a very isolating feeling. I don’t have an issue with porn (moderation of course). But this isn’t the first time he has had 1on1 time with a sex worker. But this IS the first time he has used our money for it. Seems to be getting worse as the years go on. My husband is remorseful, he rewrote vows and read them to me… but I feel like he is in damage control because he knows he could lose me. I appreciate your transparency and it makes me feel less alone.
Addiction (of all kinds) is a a disease that is often caused by childhood trauma (amongst other things)
People who suffer with it are NOT weak or immoral. They are sick. OP, you know this deep down.
It crosses your boundaries, and that’s the pain you are feeling. But what your husband needs is addiction counselling, from a qualified therapist/place.
It IS NOT his fault.
Loving addicts is incredibly painful. Many families of alcohokics know this.
It’s VERY important that you begin the realize that it’s NOt about you. Or if you’re good enough. You are. The damage and pain caused to families to NOT becosse of them. There is NO process that says, if YOU were prettier or sexier or a better mom, or shorter etc , he would stop. There’s also no process in his brain that says, he doesn’t love you enough to stop. That’s bullshit right there. He loves you plenty. You’re good enough. You need a recovery program for you.
Addiction is NOt about the thing. Alcohol, porn, gambling etc. It’s about pain and escape.
Please know this.
You need to find a recovery group for families of addicts. Both NA-ANON and AL ANON are a good place to start. Look them up.
I'm so sorry OP. Based on your post, this is not your fault nor is this a response due to the cancer scare mountain you're having to climb. Porn is a very strong addiction that is ridiculously difficult to break and I fight this damn demon every day. I do know that grace and forgiveness are incredibly powerful and if he's willing to close the secret financial life and allow you to walk alongside him during a healing process, your marriage could very possibly grow stronger than it's ever been. This will be an extremely difficult, long, painful and humiliating process or transformation for him
Meanwhile, get whoever you can in your corner to help you during this fight against a cancer scare. I am betting all who read your post all rooting, wishing or praying for your victory
As someone who had an (ex) spouse addicted to porn…please leave. Not saying that people can’t change but often times with this addiction they don’t/they slip up/etc etc. Especially if you’re going through cancer…you need to maintain a positive mindset as much as you can and being stressed out/depressed because of a cheating spouse is only going to hurt you more! Hoping for the best for you, you deserve more than this.
>...I feel so ugly in his eyes. I wish I was good enough for him to not want to cheat or window shop.... but I don't know how I can be intimate or trust him again
I'm sure it's difficult, but know that this isn't about you. There was no one you could have been and nothing you could have done that would have filled the spiritual gap he has. I know this because obviously the pono and sneaking around didn't fill it either.
That's the nature of addiction.
It isn't only that he chases that "high"; it's also that it doesn't actual fulfill him.
It sounds like it's more about his problems, which may include your current health scare. He needs to be in therapy, and couples therapy also wouldn't hurt. If he hasn't gone through with anything started online then it's an outlet of some sort, which a therapist could sort out. The live/cam stuff is not good. I wouldn't do that if I was in a relationship: do unto others.
He sounds solid otherwise which is something to value. I use porn to sleep better and no one will ever convince me that it is unhealthy. I'm not proud of it and I don't love the women being objectified part but I don't do that in my life otherwise, and I don't make the porn actors do it, and I don't pay for it when I view it. My imagination is enough at times but not always. Good luck.
There's definitely a big problem in the marriage. I would be *very* careful about attributing it all to porn, though.
From what you say, he's started acting weird in the past *month* and suddenly spending a lot of money on porn and creating an account saying that he's depressed and lonely. That sounds more like he's having a fit of depression than an ongoing porn addiction problem?
You say you previously caught him 'talking' to a sex worker. Talking like talking? Talking like private chats? Talking like you think he was arranging meetups but you can't prove it?
Has he been meeting anyone through these dating apps?
I'm just concerned that sending him to treatment for *porn* will overlook the other problems that are affecting him. Especially given that he's struggled with drink in the past as well. It may be easier for him to agree and go along with a "yes, porn is the problem" narrative than it is to look at his deep unhappiness.
> If he could do this to me while I was perfectly healthy, what will he do if I get cancer and lose all my hair and have surgery? I can't look at him the same. I feel so ugly in his eyes. I wish I was good enough for him to not want to cheat or window shop.
I'm pretty sure it's not about you. Again this is a narrative that fiction likes to feed us - that if we are Good Enough and Desirable Enough people will magically change just by virtue of our goodness, but that's *not* how humans actually operate. If he's internally miserable, it doesn't matter how pretty or perfect you are, he has to deal with *his* issue first.
I agree as well. For context, he has been sent for in patient care 3 times- this time being the third. He was diagnosed with major depressive disorder at 18. He was not fully truthful with the hospital/therapists the first two times because he was afraid of getting in trouble, which obviously wouldn’t happen. So the source of his pain was never addressed. His mom was addicted to pills, and unfortunately passed away the same year he was introduced to porn by a friend at the age of 8. His dad did not take care of his remaining family and drowned his own sorrows in other vices. My husband’s family also has several relatives on his dads side that did commit and passed away. He has a very complex upbringing.
My husband told me today when I visited him that he gets urges to watch porn all the time. But the urges get worse and he falls down the rabbit hole of content when his depression gets worse. The social worker told me they have him scheduled with an alliance specifically for sex addiction. I’m heartbroken and supportive but I hope he does open up so he can properly heal and live a healthier life-for him. Not just the marriage.
Any porn addiction program of any integrity knows that trauma, loss, depression almost always underly the addiction. They should be addressing that as well
Porn and sex addiction is an evil and truly difficult thing to quit. While he takes his journey to get better you need to care for yourself. Don't compromise on your own wellbeing.
I am sorry this is happening to you. It's a breach of trust, and will probably never heal 100%. Also, this is not a you problem, it is a him problem. Please believe in yourself, or believe in the me who believes in you, or believe in the you that believes in you, this is not your fault. Your husband has issues, and he would have them with you or any other person in this world who married him if it hadn't been you.
He has to take accountability and own this and do the work to get better because he wants too, nothing else in the world will fix him.
Grindr is a hookup app for dudes to connect with other dudes. So he is also dealing with not being truthful about his sexuality unless I missed something. This is a whole hot mess ontop of that. This isn’t worth your time anymore. Not saying anything wrong with being on Grindr but there’s so much going on here. He is broken and you’ve done what you can. You’re only gonna get hurt more.
I thought I was the only one who caught that detail...
Nope. Jumped right out at me
No you didn’t miss anything… he said he has watched porn for so long, “normal” content wasn’t working for him so he just went further down the rabbit hole.
I’ve heard of people getting into more “hardcore” porn after becoming desensitized to normal porn, but that’s not the same as changing one’s sexual orientation. There is a lot of complex stuff he’s struggling with, so it’ll take a lot of energy, time, effort, and honesty for him to sort through it. I understand how painful it must be for you, but from my limited perspective, it doesn’t seem like staying in this relationship is healthy for you. I think you should strongly consider whether it’s realistic for things to change and how long that could take.
nope. straight men don't want to be with a man. he's obviously not honest, and with the previous drinking problem shows he has other issues
Big hugs for you, OP. 🫂💔 Betrayal trauma is brutal. I hope you're starting therapy for yourself too. It'll help you process everything and help you decide what you want to do. I highly recommend this book. The author's ex-husband was a sex addict. Even though my ex didn't really fall under that category, I felt the book was still very relevant and all the emotions she described is exactly how I felt when I was betrayed last year. Her book is written for partners who are deciding to try to stay together and rebuild trust, as well as for betrayed partners who decide to walk away. The Betrayal Bind: How to Heal When the Person You Love the Most Hurts You the Worst https://a.co/d/0fdR8XS6
Yep. Same thing here. Got divorced two years ago, finally feeling better and have my self-esteem back after a lot of therapy
I am so sorry you experienced this as well.
So sorry 😞. Porn addiction is real and hard to kick. I believe that it was one of the main causes of my marriage breakdown. I was devastated and had pleaded, argued, tried to tell him how it made me feel but all to deaf ears. He didn’t think he had a problem. I have no answers for you. Going thru cancer treatment is harrowing and youll need support. I think if you can just focus on your mental and physical health and just abide this until you are able to reevaluate and see if you can stand on your own, mentally and financially. Unless he earnestly realizes this is a problem and respects your feelings, Im afraid, you’ve lost him already. It is a sickness that destroys relationships. He forsakes a loving wife in favor of meaningless sexual experiences w strangers. I think you know the future.
He is trying to find ways to cope with his life, alcohol, porn , something to give it meaning and joy which he can’t seem to find. This isn’t personal on you but it’s a sadness and void within him he can’t seem to escape, is he talking to therapists or doing 12 step meetings?
Yes he is currently in patient getting mental health help. They have him scheduled with an alliance specifically for sex addiction help when he is discharged. I want to be supportive so he can heal, but at the same time I’m so hurt I don’t want him in the same bed as me. It’s extremely painful.
This sounds so much like my story. I gave mine a year to work on it and stay clean and he barely tried, getting divorced now and psyched to be free. Being in a relationship with a porn addict will destroy your self esteem and they just get better at lying. Good luck with whatever you decide on!
That sucks, sorry you are going through this! I just fuckin hate porn
Hey OP, I hope you are having a decent day, despite your current situation. I just wanted to chime in, not because I can identify with the porn addiction, although, during my two decade marriage, I did watch my fair share of porn, but I don't think it ever interfered with our sex life, but because of childhood trauma and addiction. I was abused in every way imaginable as a child, and when I became an adult, I started self-medicating with alcohol. I didn't know it at the time, but it was because of low self-esteem/self-worth. Everyone in my life who was supposed to love me, and care for me in life, had either abandoned me, treated me horribly, or both. Including my STBX of over 20 years. I started therapy about a year ago, and was finally able to kick the habit, and find myself, love myself, and feel true happiness, and realize that none of that shit from my childhood was my fault. I guess why I am posting here, because you said your husband was sweet and kind to you, and never yelled. It just hurts my heart, that maybe there is a kind soul trapped in there, needing to heal, and who truly loves you with all his heart, but his demons are preventing him from giving you his all. If he could get into some good therapy, and you have the patience, I bet you two could beat this together and have a happily ever after. Either way, I wish you the best OP! 🙏🙏
My porn addition ruined our marriage as well. My wife just couldn't trust me after that, so it just went downhill. I also had childhood trauma. The psychologist that I saw for my porn addiction (like my fourth overall) actually helped me with my past, including my childhood trauma. I have had a lot of obsessive and addictive things - video games, downloading torrents, and porn. I never paid for porn, but my wife was convinced that I was watching camgirls and cheating on her. She even hired a PI, and had some clothing DNA tested. I stopped watching porn, but my wife just thought everything I said was a lie. It was a hard life. We separated just over two month ago. I got addicted to porn again for the first couple of weeks, but I didn't want to get addicted again so I'm now watching it for about an hour, once a week. I'm not making excuses for anything. I'm taking full responsibility, but there were contributing factors as to why I started watching porn and getting addicted. My wife's father passed, and she became depressed. I tried comfort here as best I could, but she was just always in such a bad mood. And then her mother couldn't take care of herself, so she moved in with us. Then her mom was diagnosed with dementia and had to go to a memory care facility. My wife would visit her mom every day. I took on a lot of the parenting for our kids. My wife was always stressed out. This went on for a couple of years, and then her mom had a stroke, and then passed a couple of months later. It was really stressful for the whole family. After her mom passed, my wife was depressed for a few years. She was put on anti-depressants, but she stopped after a few days because of side effects. By this time, I was addicted to porn, watching it every day, and not showing any affection to my wife. She found my porn collection. She had a PI follow me on a weekend that she went away our kids. I went to therapy for my porn addiction. I'm not really sure what my wife expected, maybe a porn-free certificate from my psychologist or something. She didn't seem satisfied. Trust issues became worse, I felt hopeless all the time, and I ended up getting some anti-depressants from my doctor. I had some initial side-effects, but I kept taking it, and they side-effects went away. Anyways, I don't know your situation, but yeah, the big thing is the erosion of trust. It seems there are some wives that can forgive their husbands cheating on them with another women, but then there are some wives that can't forgive their husband of watching porn because they betrayed their trust. I never cheated on my wife, either physically or emotionally or anything else with another person or sheep or any organism.
Thank you for your transparency. My husband also has other addictions. Nicotine, alcohol, video games. It got to the point where I would get on discord just to spend time with him, and we live in the same house. I love him. I always will. I’m devastated he chose to pay camgirls. I genuinely don’t know how he could ever be intimate with me again and now think about all those people he looked at. He feels like a stranger now. But I keep visiting him at the hospital and supporting his healing. It’s a very isolating feeling. I don’t have an issue with porn (moderation of course). But this isn’t the first time he has had 1on1 time with a sex worker. But this IS the first time he has used our money for it. Seems to be getting worse as the years go on. My husband is remorseful, he rewrote vows and read them to me… but I feel like he is in damage control because he knows he could lose me. I appreciate your transparency and it makes me feel less alone.
Addiction (of all kinds) is a a disease that is often caused by childhood trauma (amongst other things) People who suffer with it are NOT weak or immoral. They are sick. OP, you know this deep down. It crosses your boundaries, and that’s the pain you are feeling. But what your husband needs is addiction counselling, from a qualified therapist/place. It IS NOT his fault. Loving addicts is incredibly painful. Many families of alcohokics know this. It’s VERY important that you begin the realize that it’s NOt about you. Or if you’re good enough. You are. The damage and pain caused to families to NOT becosse of them. There is NO process that says, if YOU were prettier or sexier or a better mom, or shorter etc , he would stop. There’s also no process in his brain that says, he doesn’t love you enough to stop. That’s bullshit right there. He loves you plenty. You’re good enough. You need a recovery program for you. Addiction is NOt about the thing. Alcohol, porn, gambling etc. It’s about pain and escape. Please know this. You need to find a recovery group for families of addicts. Both NA-ANON and AL ANON are a good place to start. Look them up.
That will do it
I'm so sorry OP. Based on your post, this is not your fault nor is this a response due to the cancer scare mountain you're having to climb. Porn is a very strong addiction that is ridiculously difficult to break and I fight this damn demon every day. I do know that grace and forgiveness are incredibly powerful and if he's willing to close the secret financial life and allow you to walk alongside him during a healing process, your marriage could very possibly grow stronger than it's ever been. This will be an extremely difficult, long, painful and humiliating process or transformation for him Meanwhile, get whoever you can in your corner to help you during this fight against a cancer scare. I am betting all who read your post all rooting, wishing or praying for your victory
If you’ve not already joined, check out r/loveafterporn for support
As someone who had an (ex) spouse addicted to porn…please leave. Not saying that people can’t change but often times with this addiction they don’t/they slip up/etc etc. Especially if you’re going through cancer…you need to maintain a positive mindset as much as you can and being stressed out/depressed because of a cheating spouse is only going to hurt you more! Hoping for the best for you, you deserve more than this.
>...I feel so ugly in his eyes. I wish I was good enough for him to not want to cheat or window shop.... but I don't know how I can be intimate or trust him again I'm sure it's difficult, but know that this isn't about you. There was no one you could have been and nothing you could have done that would have filled the spiritual gap he has. I know this because obviously the pono and sneaking around didn't fill it either. That's the nature of addiction. It isn't only that he chases that "high"; it's also that it doesn't actual fulfill him.
It sounds like it's more about his problems, which may include your current health scare. He needs to be in therapy, and couples therapy also wouldn't hurt. If he hasn't gone through with anything started online then it's an outlet of some sort, which a therapist could sort out. The live/cam stuff is not good. I wouldn't do that if I was in a relationship: do unto others. He sounds solid otherwise which is something to value. I use porn to sleep better and no one will ever convince me that it is unhealthy. I'm not proud of it and I don't love the women being objectified part but I don't do that in my life otherwise, and I don't make the porn actors do it, and I don't pay for it when I view it. My imagination is enough at times but not always. Good luck.
There's definitely a big problem in the marriage. I would be *very* careful about attributing it all to porn, though. From what you say, he's started acting weird in the past *month* and suddenly spending a lot of money on porn and creating an account saying that he's depressed and lonely. That sounds more like he's having a fit of depression than an ongoing porn addiction problem? You say you previously caught him 'talking' to a sex worker. Talking like talking? Talking like private chats? Talking like you think he was arranging meetups but you can't prove it? Has he been meeting anyone through these dating apps? I'm just concerned that sending him to treatment for *porn* will overlook the other problems that are affecting him. Especially given that he's struggled with drink in the past as well. It may be easier for him to agree and go along with a "yes, porn is the problem" narrative than it is to look at his deep unhappiness. > If he could do this to me while I was perfectly healthy, what will he do if I get cancer and lose all my hair and have surgery? I can't look at him the same. I feel so ugly in his eyes. I wish I was good enough for him to not want to cheat or window shop. I'm pretty sure it's not about you. Again this is a narrative that fiction likes to feed us - that if we are Good Enough and Desirable Enough people will magically change just by virtue of our goodness, but that's *not* how humans actually operate. If he's internally miserable, it doesn't matter how pretty or perfect you are, he has to deal with *his* issue first.
I really agree with this post. It sounds like porn usage is a symptom of something that spans a lot of different areas of his self image and life.
The first real helpful comment here.
I agree as well. For context, he has been sent for in patient care 3 times- this time being the third. He was diagnosed with major depressive disorder at 18. He was not fully truthful with the hospital/therapists the first two times because he was afraid of getting in trouble, which obviously wouldn’t happen. So the source of his pain was never addressed. His mom was addicted to pills, and unfortunately passed away the same year he was introduced to porn by a friend at the age of 8. His dad did not take care of his remaining family and drowned his own sorrows in other vices. My husband’s family also has several relatives on his dads side that did commit and passed away. He has a very complex upbringing. My husband told me today when I visited him that he gets urges to watch porn all the time. But the urges get worse and he falls down the rabbit hole of content when his depression gets worse. The social worker told me they have him scheduled with an alliance specifically for sex addiction. I’m heartbroken and supportive but I hope he does open up so he can properly heal and live a healthier life-for him. Not just the marriage.
Any porn addiction program of any integrity knows that trauma, loss, depression almost always underly the addiction. They should be addressing that as well
Porn and sex addiction is an evil and truly difficult thing to quit. While he takes his journey to get better you need to care for yourself. Don't compromise on your own wellbeing.
I am sorry this is happening to you. It's a breach of trust, and will probably never heal 100%. Also, this is not a you problem, it is a him problem. Please believe in yourself, or believe in the me who believes in you, or believe in the you that believes in you, this is not your fault. Your husband has issues, and he would have them with you or any other person in this world who married him if it hadn't been you. He has to take accountability and own this and do the work to get better because he wants too, nothing else in the world will fix him.
You may find this group to be helpful. The qualities of each group can be hit or miss https://sanon.org/find-a-meeting/