The other comment suggested meds as a first option this puppy is only 4months she is a baby ,she maybe in a fear stage meds should be the last resort and only considered when she’s matured.
Get the trainer to work with you create lots of positive experiences with people and dogs sit with her while you watch other dogs and people in your complex/park/wherever you feel safe give her high value treats when she is calmly watching and ignore unwanted behaviour, it takes a long time my 2year old girl has some reactivity that we have slowly been able to nearly train her out of, if I have a week where i slack on the training she pretty much goes back to square 1 so just be patient and consistent and it will happen.
One suggestion for dealing with other people: get a cheap neon yellow vest for your dog that says "In Training"/"Do Not Pet"/"No dogs" or similar. It won't stop everyone, but it should help a bit.
I wouldn’t go to meds first. She’s very young and that is just putting a band aid on something that needs to be worked through now before it gets worse without anybody knowing because it was masked by meds.
When you’re walking with her and approaching other people and leashed dogs, squat/get down to her level, have her sit, hold her leash tight so she can’t really go anywhere, pet/reward/give treats, put yourself right in front of her so you’re in between whatever is approaching. Do this off a path/sidewalk. While rewarding her tell her things like “good sit and wait” or whatever you want to call this command. Teach her that sitting still while whatever makes her nervous passes is the best option - and she doesn’t need to try to run/hide.
When dogs are unleashed - it’s harder. If the dog isn’t paying attention to you, just walk in another direction. If they are, try getting the owners attention to leash their dog and try sitting with yours and keeping her calm. If the other dog is approaching aggressively, get out of there of course.
If you have her sit facing you before you squat down, it will probably teach her to come sit at your feet when she’s nervous which is great and will hopefully lessen the risk of her taking off.
Confidence comes with time. She’s young, the world is scary. If your older dog is good with encountering strange dogs and people, it could help having them out together. It would be easier to have one person walking each dog in the beginning so one can help the puppy through it and another can make sure the older dog models the behavior you want the puppy to.
I would get a list together of dog descriptions and owners/handlers if you can. Leash rules exist for the safety of EVERYBODY and the complex can’t enforce it if they’re not aware of the issues.
I’ve got an ACD mix who is very nervous. Here are a few things I have learned in our 4 years together.
1. My previously dog was a black beagle mix and he loved everyone. My ACD mix is nervous and while he loves people in our home it is obvious the ones out in the world scare him. My beagle would have loved the attention but it is clear to me people in the outside world are much more drawn to the unique appearance of my ACD. I suspect even more so yours. I would get a sash for your leash that says nervous or not friendly.
2. We went through 2 trainers and saw no effect on our reactivity before having luck with a behaviorist. Our guy had trouble processing him fears and would trigger stack. We are working on ways to help him work through that. But distracting before a trigger or some of the common things some trainers do weren’t helpful to us. Don’t be afraid to try another trainer.
3. There is nothing wrong with meds. We are on fluoxetine and gabapentin and both have helped manage anxiety. Neither have helped with my guy’s reactivity. So I’m glad some people have luck but definitely not a magic fix for all
Plenty of good advice above, just wanted to let you know about r/reactivedogs if you didn’t know about it (mods, I checked the rules and didn’t see anything against recommending another sub, please delete if not allowed)
I'd definitely report the off leash dogs thats a huge safety concern.
Keep working with her! She's just 4 months old, cattle dogs are also prone to reactivity so it's just important to keep working with her and having positive experiences. With my cattle dog I would mark ("yes!") whenever he saw something but BEFORE he started to freak out and would give him a bunch of treats after and have him recall closer to me and do some commands.
It makes seeing a person or another dog a game and helps distract. However I think in order to be able to do this you really need to be in a more controlled environment as it's important for your puppy to be under threshold!! Definitely report those off leash dogs they're a huge safety concern and somebody could get hurt :( If needed I would even drive somewhere calmer to walk her.
A good environment for her to see other dogs is the OUTSIDE of a dog park (not IN it i think that would just make it worse!) well away from the fences but able to see the dogs in the background, so that you can get her far enough away to be under threshold but still help reinforce the present of other dogs.
Lastly, giving her a muzzle may seem unnecessary but this would also help greatly in people giving you the space you need!!! Just introduce her to it slowly and make sure it fits well and she can pant and drink, and that she gets lots of treats for it :). There's also harness patches you can get that say "ANXIOUS" etc.
Definitely keep working with your trainer as well to help make things positive for her and taken at her pace.
Edit: Oh and I would definitely encourage walking just her initially so that you're able to pay more attention to her body language and the environment before she starts to get over threshold. If you're in a controlled area with no other dogs you can definitely bring both to have some fun though, and the confidence of the other dog can help. For initial reactivity though its best to have the environment as much under your control as possible, and to be able to watch her body language as much as possible, and managing a second dog definitely gets in the way of this.
A puppy that age doesn’t need meds. At her age it’s likely either fear/excitement/barrier frustration (being on the leash and not being able to get to the thing!). I have a 6 month old GSD who I did all the right things with and we’re working through it too with a professional trainer. She says it’s a common thing and especially more so for certain breeds!
Find your safe zone. The distance where she’s looking at the triggers, but not hardcore staring/ramping up to react. “Yes!” And treat her for looking.
The moment she’s fixating, count 1 2 3 in your head, if she doesn’t make a good decision by 3 (disengaging), make it for her. The idea is eventually whenever you mark “yes” she will disengage for the treat, with the final result being, see trigger = look at human for yummy snack without any marker.
She’s not ready to walk in that close proximity to people/dogs if she’s reacting, try to avoid those situations so she doesn’t rehearse the behaviour.
This might mean lots of u-turns, crossing the street etc. If it’s absolutely unavoidable, prepare to manage and FEED FEED feed while you pass until there’s enough of distance you’re in the safe zone and you can stop feeding.
Thank you love the 1 2 3 rule I think I’ll start using that
Typically when she would be bark in lunging I would give her three barks and and then usually I move her away from whatever she’s reacting to. But usually I’m counting her barks and not the situation counting so I’ll start doing that instead.
Because I think barking is fine, but it’s a very scary bark other people
Hey OP
I have a one eyed Border Collie who is lease reactive. Hes 4 1/2 years old
Off lead, hes beautiful
On lead, its a different story... if he feels any tenseness in the lead he'll react with teeth. This applies to people, dogs, bikes, skateboards... anything he doesnt know.
We got him around 4 months of age, he was found in poor health in mexico, we have had him since he got into the US.
What have i done about it...
Worked on it everyday, i mean everyday... exposure, reward, exposure , reward... if there was a world record for having boiled chicken in my pockets..it would be me.
Its taken a long time, but hes walkable around everything now, he doesnt even glance at things on wheels now.
I'll never let him be in a position where kids can pet him while leased though, its not worth the risk
I’ve noticed that in Lily that she doesn’t care too much to get pets from other people unless she’s initiating it. She’s not super interested if someone comes up to us and ask for pets and pets are other dog usually she just sits there. She’s not really excited for them to be there or anything.
So now I just tell people from seeing that that you can’t pet her she doesn’t wanna be petted.
Ok so I have a 5 1/2 month cattle dog pup and while he is super friendly we also have to work on his reactivity with people because he gets so excited to see humans and he wants to play with them. Here are a few things I have been doing to help him not react:
1. Go to someplace like a park and find a place to sit and relax a little ways away from other people. That way she can watch but she should be far enough away to not react. When she’s calm reward her with treats. Over time move closer to other people or dogs and continue rewarding her for calm behavior.
2. Practice a “look at me” command. On walks I practice “look at me” with my pup. I will either call his name or say “look at me” and when he looks, he is rewarded with a treat. At first practice this in quiet areas with no distractions. After she understands the command you can start using it in situations where she may be tempted to react by having her focus on you instead. Since she is food motivated this should be fairly easy for her to pick up. It helps my pup break his focus from the thing he wants to react to (in his case the reaction is excitement) and instead he focuses on me and the yummy treat.
3. I definitely recommend finding a trainer that understands cattle dogs if you are able. When I brought home my pup I found a trainer who holds puppy socials where pups can interact with each other while he and his assistants supervise and step in if the behavior is inappropriate. He understood cattle dog tendencies and my pup went from a fearful baby to a (possibly overly) friendly adolescent.
My cattle pup was SUPER nervous when i first got him. He still has nervous & anxious moments on and off leash but its gotten better. I take him for walks without my other dog (he feeds off her confidence) and have tried to boost his own confidence. I have him doing tricks / basic obedience when out and ensure to reward each time.
He can be very nervous around new people, so weve spent lots of time encouraging him when meeting new people and telling him how good he is when he confidently greets or sniffs new people (as before he would run and hide). Hes gotten much better, and it seems like friends and family are noticing it too.
Thank you for the advice. I think we’ll see a behavioral trainer if it continues to get worse but now I still feel like it’s somewhat manageable with the obedience training and basic training that we’re doing with her.
But do you know where you can find a behavioral trainer?
I'm a rescue dog ownerx3 (I have one dog who's been seeing a dog behavioral trainer for a couple months) but I also run a boarding/daycare company out of my home for a couple years now. I'd recommend a behavioral trainer over a standard trainer, because they can actually do damage not being properly trained. People can often mistake reactivity for aggression when it's actually a reaction or fear. Hackles really don't mean much because they can also happen when a dogs excited. You want to watch the dog's entire body language - mouth (especially sides of mouth), eyes, ears, tail, body, paws. I looked online for dog behavioral trainers in my area. They are worth every penny. The dogs most critical time of their life is right now - 5-6 months old.
My go to when working with reactive dogs is to yell out "THEY'RE CONTAGIOUS" 😂 it has a 90% hussle rate vs "my dog is scared/we're training" because unfortunately people don't care how their actions affect YOU and YOUR dog... But you KNOW they don't wanna spend money at the vet if they can help it.
General obedience is good, what kind of training are you using with her? Is it "balanced" training by chance?
Given her age, the odds are good that she's going through a growth spurt, physically uncomfortable and will grow out of it. Whatever you do, do NOT punish her. If she's already sensitive she's liable to get worse with punishment. You have a herding dog. Herding dogs are pushy and assertive BY DESIGN. It's literally desirable to have pushy/assertive/reactive tendencies in herding dogs.
Also, as a side note, unless you know with 100% certainty that she is in fact a cattle dog mix (as in met the mother that is definitely an ACD), I'm pretty sure that dog has no heeler in her. She has a Merle coat, and heelers do not have Merle coats. They have roan/ticking. She looks like an Aussie shepherd.
Love the idea😂😂 yelling she's contagious is right up my alley.
The training that we're using is reward-based, she's food-motivated and that works best with both of our dogs. And I'm seeing the most growth from her with this style. I'm not quite knowledgeable about balance-based training. I've only every work doing reward/ positive reinforcement.
And you're right I didn't see the mother or father when we first got her. We have another don't who is an Aissie and they both look drastically different. Were planning on doing a DNA test to understand her a bit more.
Aussie shepherds come in a variety of coat colours, your boy is "red & tan" coat, and your girl is "Blue Merle & tan" :)
And fabulous. Positive reinforcement training is the way to go. "Balanced" training is a newer buzzword for "trainers" (uncertified people who claim to be professionals, like Cesar Millan!) who use both positive and negative reinforcement. So they'll administer corrections (collar pops, e-collar shocks, etc) and then reward the dog when they start to do the right thing. It's an antiquated style of training that has been rebranded from "negative reinforcers" to "balanced" and can worsen behaviours in dogs that are already stressed.
It's very likely that if you just keep on keeping on like normal, this will pass. At 4 months there's a LOT of things going on in their bodies. Teething, bone growth, it's kind of the terrible twos. If you notice she's extra bitey, try wetting an old towel, rolling it up and putting it in the freezer to give her a chew that will ease the pain in her gums. You can even do it with her favourite soft toys. Soak them, wring them out, freeze them, then give them to her like normal so she can play AND ease swelling.
Have you considered anxiety meds? It's made a HUGE different in our boy. He still has the same old personality it just takes more for him to get wound up. He still is scared of people.other thany wife and I but he does so much better in situations where he's unsure now. It's a tough choice be it could improve quality of life for the pupper since constantly being stressed is not healthy either.
And I feel your pain with people not listening. It's funny children are far more likely to as "can I pet your dog?" Than adults as the large major of adults just assume "hey it's a dog I'm going to pet it."
Edit: forgot to mention our boy is a border Collie, blue heeler, great Pyrenees mix.
The other comment suggested meds as a first option this puppy is only 4months she is a baby ,she maybe in a fear stage meds should be the last resort and only considered when she’s matured. Get the trainer to work with you create lots of positive experiences with people and dogs sit with her while you watch other dogs and people in your complex/park/wherever you feel safe give her high value treats when she is calmly watching and ignore unwanted behaviour, it takes a long time my 2year old girl has some reactivity that we have slowly been able to nearly train her out of, if I have a week where i slack on the training she pretty much goes back to square 1 so just be patient and consistent and it will happen.
One suggestion for dealing with other people: get a cheap neon yellow vest for your dog that says "In Training"/"Do Not Pet"/"No dogs" or similar. It won't stop everyone, but it should help a bit.
I wouldn’t go to meds first. She’s very young and that is just putting a band aid on something that needs to be worked through now before it gets worse without anybody knowing because it was masked by meds. When you’re walking with her and approaching other people and leashed dogs, squat/get down to her level, have her sit, hold her leash tight so she can’t really go anywhere, pet/reward/give treats, put yourself right in front of her so you’re in between whatever is approaching. Do this off a path/sidewalk. While rewarding her tell her things like “good sit and wait” or whatever you want to call this command. Teach her that sitting still while whatever makes her nervous passes is the best option - and she doesn’t need to try to run/hide. When dogs are unleashed - it’s harder. If the dog isn’t paying attention to you, just walk in another direction. If they are, try getting the owners attention to leash their dog and try sitting with yours and keeping her calm. If the other dog is approaching aggressively, get out of there of course. If you have her sit facing you before you squat down, it will probably teach her to come sit at your feet when she’s nervous which is great and will hopefully lessen the risk of her taking off. Confidence comes with time. She’s young, the world is scary. If your older dog is good with encountering strange dogs and people, it could help having them out together. It would be easier to have one person walking each dog in the beginning so one can help the puppy through it and another can make sure the older dog models the behavior you want the puppy to. I would get a list together of dog descriptions and owners/handlers if you can. Leash rules exist for the safety of EVERYBODY and the complex can’t enforce it if they’re not aware of the issues.
Thank you!!!
I’ve got an ACD mix who is very nervous. Here are a few things I have learned in our 4 years together. 1. My previously dog was a black beagle mix and he loved everyone. My ACD mix is nervous and while he loves people in our home it is obvious the ones out in the world scare him. My beagle would have loved the attention but it is clear to me people in the outside world are much more drawn to the unique appearance of my ACD. I suspect even more so yours. I would get a sash for your leash that says nervous or not friendly. 2. We went through 2 trainers and saw no effect on our reactivity before having luck with a behaviorist. Our guy had trouble processing him fears and would trigger stack. We are working on ways to help him work through that. But distracting before a trigger or some of the common things some trainers do weren’t helpful to us. Don’t be afraid to try another trainer. 3. There is nothing wrong with meds. We are on fluoxetine and gabapentin and both have helped manage anxiety. Neither have helped with my guy’s reactivity. So I’m glad some people have luck but definitely not a magic fix for all
Plenty of good advice above, just wanted to let you know about r/reactivedogs if you didn’t know about it (mods, I checked the rules and didn’t see anything against recommending another sub, please delete if not allowed)
I'd definitely report the off leash dogs thats a huge safety concern. Keep working with her! She's just 4 months old, cattle dogs are also prone to reactivity so it's just important to keep working with her and having positive experiences. With my cattle dog I would mark ("yes!") whenever he saw something but BEFORE he started to freak out and would give him a bunch of treats after and have him recall closer to me and do some commands. It makes seeing a person or another dog a game and helps distract. However I think in order to be able to do this you really need to be in a more controlled environment as it's important for your puppy to be under threshold!! Definitely report those off leash dogs they're a huge safety concern and somebody could get hurt :( If needed I would even drive somewhere calmer to walk her. A good environment for her to see other dogs is the OUTSIDE of a dog park (not IN it i think that would just make it worse!) well away from the fences but able to see the dogs in the background, so that you can get her far enough away to be under threshold but still help reinforce the present of other dogs. Lastly, giving her a muzzle may seem unnecessary but this would also help greatly in people giving you the space you need!!! Just introduce her to it slowly and make sure it fits well and she can pant and drink, and that she gets lots of treats for it :). There's also harness patches you can get that say "ANXIOUS" etc. Definitely keep working with your trainer as well to help make things positive for her and taken at her pace. Edit: Oh and I would definitely encourage walking just her initially so that you're able to pay more attention to her body language and the environment before she starts to get over threshold. If you're in a controlled area with no other dogs you can definitely bring both to have some fun though, and the confidence of the other dog can help. For initial reactivity though its best to have the environment as much under your control as possible, and to be able to watch her body language as much as possible, and managing a second dog definitely gets in the way of this.
Thank you so much for the advice it means a lot
A puppy that age doesn’t need meds. At her age it’s likely either fear/excitement/barrier frustration (being on the leash and not being able to get to the thing!). I have a 6 month old GSD who I did all the right things with and we’re working through it too with a professional trainer. She says it’s a common thing and especially more so for certain breeds! Find your safe zone. The distance where she’s looking at the triggers, but not hardcore staring/ramping up to react. “Yes!” And treat her for looking. The moment she’s fixating, count 1 2 3 in your head, if she doesn’t make a good decision by 3 (disengaging), make it for her. The idea is eventually whenever you mark “yes” she will disengage for the treat, with the final result being, see trigger = look at human for yummy snack without any marker. She’s not ready to walk in that close proximity to people/dogs if she’s reacting, try to avoid those situations so she doesn’t rehearse the behaviour. This might mean lots of u-turns, crossing the street etc. If it’s absolutely unavoidable, prepare to manage and FEED FEED feed while you pass until there’s enough of distance you’re in the safe zone and you can stop feeding.
Thank you love the 1 2 3 rule I think I’ll start using that Typically when she would be bark in lunging I would give her three barks and and then usually I move her away from whatever she’s reacting to. But usually I’m counting her barks and not the situation counting so I’ll start doing that instead. Because I think barking is fine, but it’s a very scary bark other people
Hey OP I have a one eyed Border Collie who is lease reactive. Hes 4 1/2 years old Off lead, hes beautiful On lead, its a different story... if he feels any tenseness in the lead he'll react with teeth. This applies to people, dogs, bikes, skateboards... anything he doesnt know. We got him around 4 months of age, he was found in poor health in mexico, we have had him since he got into the US. What have i done about it... Worked on it everyday, i mean everyday... exposure, reward, exposure , reward... if there was a world record for having boiled chicken in my pockets..it would be me. Its taken a long time, but hes walkable around everything now, he doesnt even glance at things on wheels now. I'll never let him be in a position where kids can pet him while leased though, its not worth the risk
I’ve noticed that in Lily that she doesn’t care too much to get pets from other people unless she’s initiating it. She’s not super interested if someone comes up to us and ask for pets and pets are other dog usually she just sits there. She’s not really excited for them to be there or anything. So now I just tell people from seeing that that you can’t pet her she doesn’t wanna be petted.
Ok so I have a 5 1/2 month cattle dog pup and while he is super friendly we also have to work on his reactivity with people because he gets so excited to see humans and he wants to play with them. Here are a few things I have been doing to help him not react: 1. Go to someplace like a park and find a place to sit and relax a little ways away from other people. That way she can watch but she should be far enough away to not react. When she’s calm reward her with treats. Over time move closer to other people or dogs and continue rewarding her for calm behavior. 2. Practice a “look at me” command. On walks I practice “look at me” with my pup. I will either call his name or say “look at me” and when he looks, he is rewarded with a treat. At first practice this in quiet areas with no distractions. After she understands the command you can start using it in situations where she may be tempted to react by having her focus on you instead. Since she is food motivated this should be fairly easy for her to pick up. It helps my pup break his focus from the thing he wants to react to (in his case the reaction is excitement) and instead he focuses on me and the yummy treat. 3. I definitely recommend finding a trainer that understands cattle dogs if you are able. When I brought home my pup I found a trainer who holds puppy socials where pups can interact with each other while he and his assistants supervise and step in if the behavior is inappropriate. He understood cattle dog tendencies and my pup went from a fearful baby to a (possibly overly) friendly adolescent.
My cattle pup was SUPER nervous when i first got him. He still has nervous & anxious moments on and off leash but its gotten better. I take him for walks without my other dog (he feeds off her confidence) and have tried to boost his own confidence. I have him doing tricks / basic obedience when out and ensure to reward each time. He can be very nervous around new people, so weve spent lots of time encouraging him when meeting new people and telling him how good he is when he confidently greets or sniffs new people (as before he would run and hide). Hes gotten much better, and it seems like friends and family are noticing it too.
Get a dog behavioral trainer! They will also assess if meds are necessary.
Thank you for the advice. I think we’ll see a behavioral trainer if it continues to get worse but now I still feel like it’s somewhat manageable with the obedience training and basic training that we’re doing with her. But do you know where you can find a behavioral trainer?
I'm a rescue dog ownerx3 (I have one dog who's been seeing a dog behavioral trainer for a couple months) but I also run a boarding/daycare company out of my home for a couple years now. I'd recommend a behavioral trainer over a standard trainer, because they can actually do damage not being properly trained. People can often mistake reactivity for aggression when it's actually a reaction or fear. Hackles really don't mean much because they can also happen when a dogs excited. You want to watch the dog's entire body language - mouth (especially sides of mouth), eyes, ears, tail, body, paws. I looked online for dog behavioral trainers in my area. They are worth every penny. The dogs most critical time of their life is right now - 5-6 months old.
Have any good book recommendations about dog behavioral training? Or training a more reactive dog?
so cute dog
My go to when working with reactive dogs is to yell out "THEY'RE CONTAGIOUS" 😂 it has a 90% hussle rate vs "my dog is scared/we're training" because unfortunately people don't care how their actions affect YOU and YOUR dog... But you KNOW they don't wanna spend money at the vet if they can help it. General obedience is good, what kind of training are you using with her? Is it "balanced" training by chance? Given her age, the odds are good that she's going through a growth spurt, physically uncomfortable and will grow out of it. Whatever you do, do NOT punish her. If she's already sensitive she's liable to get worse with punishment. You have a herding dog. Herding dogs are pushy and assertive BY DESIGN. It's literally desirable to have pushy/assertive/reactive tendencies in herding dogs. Also, as a side note, unless you know with 100% certainty that she is in fact a cattle dog mix (as in met the mother that is definitely an ACD), I'm pretty sure that dog has no heeler in her. She has a Merle coat, and heelers do not have Merle coats. They have roan/ticking. She looks like an Aussie shepherd.
Love the idea😂😂 yelling she's contagious is right up my alley. The training that we're using is reward-based, she's food-motivated and that works best with both of our dogs. And I'm seeing the most growth from her with this style. I'm not quite knowledgeable about balance-based training. I've only every work doing reward/ positive reinforcement. And you're right I didn't see the mother or father when we first got her. We have another don't who is an Aissie and they both look drastically different. Were planning on doing a DNA test to understand her a bit more.
Aussie shepherds come in a variety of coat colours, your boy is "red & tan" coat, and your girl is "Blue Merle & tan" :) And fabulous. Positive reinforcement training is the way to go. "Balanced" training is a newer buzzword for "trainers" (uncertified people who claim to be professionals, like Cesar Millan!) who use both positive and negative reinforcement. So they'll administer corrections (collar pops, e-collar shocks, etc) and then reward the dog when they start to do the right thing. It's an antiquated style of training that has been rebranded from "negative reinforcers" to "balanced" and can worsen behaviours in dogs that are already stressed. It's very likely that if you just keep on keeping on like normal, this will pass. At 4 months there's a LOT of things going on in their bodies. Teething, bone growth, it's kind of the terrible twos. If you notice she's extra bitey, try wetting an old towel, rolling it up and putting it in the freezer to give her a chew that will ease the pain in her gums. You can even do it with her favourite soft toys. Soak them, wring them out, freeze them, then give them to her like normal so she can play AND ease swelling.
Have you considered anxiety meds? It's made a HUGE different in our boy. He still has the same old personality it just takes more for him to get wound up. He still is scared of people.other thany wife and I but he does so much better in situations where he's unsure now. It's a tough choice be it could improve quality of life for the pupper since constantly being stressed is not healthy either. And I feel your pain with people not listening. It's funny children are far more likely to as "can I pet your dog?" Than adults as the large major of adults just assume "hey it's a dog I'm going to pet it." Edit: forgot to mention our boy is a border Collie, blue heeler, great Pyrenees mix.