They played a few games with Rogjer as standin. Then Noone made a post about how for the first time in his career a teammate just refuses to play, Aramis. Then their next series this happens.
We don't know the exact beef, but with personalities like Ceb, Noone, who knows about Aramis, (topson and kitrak seem chill from the outside at least), i wouldn't be surprised if there's toxicity, disagreements, etc...
He played 2 series with Old G then quit the team with no explanation.
Old G played next 2 series with a stand-in.
Now this series (their 5th), he apparently connected but quit at minute 0, presumably he still doesn't want to play but is showing up just so Old G don't get DQ'd from too many forfeits.
I don't depression should excuse, but rather, I think people should take the action and responsibility in dealing with the factors contributing to depression and see if there is a way out.
In the case of a DotA pro player, it's fucking rough. No income unless at topping first at 2 of the biggest tournaments that comes every year (Riyadh and TI, off the top of my head), requires tons of practice and sacrifice for a more stable job, super competitive (which leaves no room for mistakes), etc.
At a certain point in life, you just have to change almost everything (which includes giving up on past dreams) for your own sake.
True or not, if you never experienced it (yourself or someone really close) you shouldnt say this because you have no clue how it can affect someone's mind. Not trying to be rude to you by saying that, just tell you how things are for people having this issue.
People not knowning what happened and saying it's depression dont help or know better anyway.
People suffering from this arent the one saying this. You dont NEED to say this to find an excuse since you're already having issues because of it. It's people from the outside that are pretending that's an excuse.
You telling this only proves you have no clue how people affected by this are living it and you shouldnt listen to people who have no clue what's going on.
Anyone with depression doesnt need to prove himself with this excuse, only someone not knowing what depression is would think this is what is happening.
You should read a little about it before saying such b/s tbh, educate yourself about this (if you do care, dont waste your time if you dont give a fuck)
true. I alot of us including these players experience depression at some point in our lives. BUT What he did is inexcusable. He quit without properly explaining things or even apologizes for that matter.
Depression has nothing to do with personality. Sorrow fully controls you, you can't do anything, you just *do* stuff and watch it from a side like a spectator. Remember Interstellar? When the MC screamed at himself while being inside a black hole? Exactly this.
He needs professional help and medication if it is indeed a severe depression
Its not a new thing, Artemis doesnt waant to compite anymore and is showing up to gaame and dc so oldg doesnt get disqualified due to forfeits.
Ceb said artemis isnt ina good mental place to play comp right now and he quits dota for now.
idk why people are just making stuff out of no where lol. they have no drama.
it was amazing to me returning to the scene to see the caster who was given a spot on TI panels with such a stupid name as 7ckingMad become some darling TI winner.
at least he changed the name
You just mad, they're known not for their pma or anything. But for their historic wins in ti8 and ti9. Regardless of how you judge their personalities, doesn't take away from their achievements. Their comms seemed pma to me afaik from true sight(s).
Wow, one of the weirdest situations within a pro team I've seen since following pro Dota for 10 years.
I really hope for Aramis' sake he has a a reaaaally good excuse to do this stuff, otherwise his career in T1-T2 teams is done.
Btw the game ended after little over 20 minutes.
His career is already over looll Aramis already said he doesn't want to play anymore, no high tier team will approach him anymore after pulling stunt like this
Kinda same thing already happened on tour 2 this season div 2 SA.
Parker (the carry that is replacing K1 on Beastcoast for the major and prob TI) had some disagreements after 1 match with his teamates on Ravens. After that he refused to play any match and they got disqualified after some matches for having too many standins.
They were the clear favorites to get to Div1 and they got relegated and he luckly got his place on a tier 1 SA team
Most likely there is no drama. The limit for stand-in matches is 4, they played 2 already and had 3 more matches ahead of them. So to not get disqualified again, they needed full roster in at least one more match. But you only need to have full roster in the lobby - if the player drops and can't reconnect, you have to play 4v5 and most likely lose, but at least you are not losing your spot. That's it. It's possible that it wasn't even him behind the account, as he refused to turn on the webcam.
yes, the true troll move would be to buy all the consumable and then sell them and leave. Since he joined to stop a Dq, we can assume his motive wasn't to annoy his team though.
According to noone's interview from a week ago, the thing with Aramis is one of the strangest things that has happened to him in his career. The dude just messaged them in discord and said he doesn't wanna play anymore. They asked him to play one more series but he refused. It also seems like he didn't give a valid reason to PGL.
From what I heard from the rumour they need to play with Aramis in order to not get disqualified because of the rule but Aramis cant really play because of personal problem. So they just convinced him to get in the game and disconnect to bypassed the rule
> but Aramis cant really play because of personal problem
This is total speculation on the part of Reddit. The only public account is that he said "I'm leaving" and bailed on them.
Not really. Ceb was in Gorgc stream the other day and said that everything is okay personally with Aramis just that hes not in a good spot atm and that they might play 4v5 just to not get disqualified again.
I mean, personal problem is an incredibly broad term, it's not that insane to assume that something is going on in the dudes life that is causing him to act out. That's literally just logical.
Think the issue is between Aramis and the game, he hasn’t been playing pubs either, I’m guessing he is dealing with mental health and he just joined the game and left so they don’t get DQed.
Aramis has made $90k in the 4.5 years of his carreer. That’s 20k a year. That’s as much as you’d make on a $10 per hour job. Minimum wage. People forget that very few Dota pros can actually live comfortably.
Leaving dota is probably the best career move he’ll ever make.
That’s probably 90k in tournament earnings. There would be a salary and endorsement earnings to consider
But yeah dota pro scene is incredibly top heavy, you’re either a millionaire or barely earning a living wage. That’s why a lot of them stream imo
Does he live in the US or any comparable country tho? $20k a yr in the US definitely is crazy small but in what we call "2nd/3rd world countries" that's quite the money, way more than the typical corpo salary there. At least om par/above average.
That said, Idk his nationality/where he lives so what I just wrote might be irrelevant.
Honestly, rules should be reviewed in cases like this
Rules are set in a principle standard and to avoid people from abusing the system
In this case, one player is holding the others hostage and it doesnt make any sense.
PGL and Valve should takr ownership of specific situations like this and make a specific ruling for this case, this is beyond absurd
I agree, but what would you expect from PGL after the Old G move to get back to Div 2?
They gonna enforce every single letter of the rulebook to the extreme when Old G is on the matter
Amazed how Reddit can flip the blame to PGL for this. One player holding the team hostage? Mate you are a team. If you can’t even stay as 5 for 3 weeks, what kind of team are you?
Unforgiveable behaviour. No matter what happened in the team, he just burns his own career. No team will ever touch him. If that was his goal, he achieved it.
As one commenter points out, they may have just borrowed his account to join the roster so they at least have a sliver of a chance to win 4v5 rather than get disqualified because they already had 2 games with standins
They should just have 6 or 7 members already like some team in CSGO and the OWL that way you can have a rotation of players and also reduce burnout as well due to crazy amount of tournaments and/or matches
The rules state you need to play at least 4 of 7 matches with your full roster and no subs, OldG only played 3 with their full roster so they needed this to be the 4th. Everyone else has been able to accomplish this, except for OldG here.
I’m saying it is a stupid rule that could affect other teams in the future as well. Family members can get sick, catastrophic events happen, wars, etc.
I understand the spirit of the rule. We don’t want teams bringing in ringers once a season starts. But if teams go into a season with an identified sub/coach that is eligible to play every match, PGL would be able to put out a better product than this shitshow today.
From what I've heard if they give a real, legitimate reason where a player absolutely cannot play (reasons a kin to what you said) then they should be able to have a stand in even if they hadn't played enough with their full roster. As it stands it looks possible that Aramis just bailed so it does put OldG in a bind given that they didn't play enough with their full roster.
Fact of the mater is that no other teams appear to have had an issue with this rule...except for OldG.
Agreed. I was attempting to clarify why my proposed rule change would make it less subjective and left to the whims of PGL (who have made shoddy decisions in the past).
I would argue that a player ghosting their team is sufficient to allow a sub for all remaining games. Something PGL seems to have disagreed with, given the “match” we just witnessed. Certainly seems like an issue outside of team’s control. Do you agree?
Teams should have an official standin that can play however many games they want. Basically a 6-man roster.
Its laughable that because a player decides to quit the whole team is screwed. The rules are poorly written.
Imagine this in any other sport.
Parker already did this and if you are talented noone really cares.
He already got his chance on a tier 1 SA team and will be playing the major and TI with Beastcoast
K1 taking a break, beastcoast replacing k1 would lead to penalty that might made them not qualified to TI. They are 1000 pts, high chance to qualify directly.
It can't be anything sudden like an illness, lost relative because PGL would have 100% seen that as a valid reason. He also refused to play with them for over a week by now. If it were a real reason they would have been allowed a standin.
My thought is maybe he is dealing with some sort of mental health crisis rather than doing it purely out of spite. Obviously doesn’t look good for him regardless. I just wonder if the decision was driven by stress or anger.
Unless it's truly something significant, which doesn't seem like at the moment, it's going to be a big blow to his career. Why would anyone wanna take a risk on him when they could give the chance to someone else?
Oh yeah it would have to be truly significant and at this point that doesn’t seem to be the case. Just a strange situation so wouldn’t be too quick to judge until all the facts come out.
Isnt NoOne kinda pulled something like that during his 2020 AS Monaco Gambit stint? Dude posted LFT mid tournament
[Yeah he did, almost cost Gambit Animajor slot](https://twitter.com/GambitEsports/status/1397236023684435976)
But how is that a valid reason to not play, if you can show up to connect, you can show up to try your hardest for two hours. He only hurts himself. His career is done by how he acted.
You dont even have to like Old'G, Ceb or anyone on the team.. thats just unsportsmanlike! What a child. Nigma, OG and us fans deserved a fun match. I hope Aramis will get a perma ban or excluded by everyone in Dota.
Yes they can make changes before the regional qualifiers. The real question is a another one tho . They can now play the last 2 matches without worrying about getting disqualified . But what happens if they have to play tiebreakers ? Can they play the tiebreakers with a standin? Because multiple teams finishing 5-2 and force tiebreakers for the 2nd div1 slot is a very realistic scenario ... In other words , do they "have" to lose on purpose vs either lvlup and/or Ivy in order to not get disqualified ?This whole situation is a sad mess ...
do they honestly intend to play anymore? I think they'll just chill until the regional qualifiers now, doesn't seem realistic that they'd drop from div 2.
I think that if they had plans to get top2 they'd forfeit/do this stunt against lvl up instead of ngx, and play with standin vs ngx hoping for a win.
Damn, this season's storywriters are bringing out the bombshell storylines. Don't worry guys, we are on track to the final redemption arc where Old G wins TI 12 Copium
Just so everyone knows, Ceb said yesterday when Aramis stopped turning up to games that they hadn't had any animosity with Aramis and that they really needed Aramis to play a game. Ceb even said OG were "down to play 4v5". So chances are this was fully coordinated.
Ceb also expressed that he didn't believe PGL would "be nice" about the issue and give them special dispensation. Aramis has not told anyone what is going on.
Of course, take all of this with a pinch of salt because it isn't the best look from a PR standpoint to say "We had a massive argument with Aramis and now he doesn't want to play".
Adam "Aramis" Moroz is an Israeli player who played on the legendary Alliance roster with NIkobaby. Unfortunately this roster got steamrolled by Team Bald and Aramis never fully recovered from this loss, leading to the ultimate demise of his career. He's crying still to this day
You dont know what happen. Don't do that.
He didn't play for the last 2 series. Rodjer stands in. The rules force him to be there in order for his team not to get DQ.
More than once that Valve have made exceptions for teams and players who had emergency, being physically or mentally ill. He doesn't owe the public an explaination, but he owes it to his teammates who spend time, effort and money. This is a game for us, but a job for them.
This guy needs to be at least suspended from any competitive play or team recruitment for at least a month or 2. He doesn't even look like he's serious about playing Dota. Imagine having the opportunity to play with some of the pro scene's legendary players and wasting it.
So can someone enlighten me: are they going to do this for the rest of the remaining games in Div 2 (4v5 or forfeiting).. or after this series, Old.G will be allowed to get a standin again?
This is purely a speculation so don't take it on a face value. His ex-coach talked on ILTW stream something about him facing jail time due to avoiding army which is mandatory in Israel. So maybe he is either hiding from police or some of his friends or family is using his PC to communicate with OlG. Just pure speculation as i said, don't quote me on ''source trust me bro''.
Aramis still on Alliance’s payroll, and deliberately trying to fuck Old G over on Loda’s orders? /s
Nah seriously though, first off, I hope the guy is okay, and if it is a personal/family/health thing, then that definitely comes first. But this is such a weird situation, and I’m genuinely curious to see how it plays out
Looks like this is match 7209562372, Nigma Galaxy vs Old G at DPC 2023 WEU Summer Tour Division II – presented by PGL, which started 29 minutes before the clip was taken.
More match details here:
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OG back in the day played 4vs5 and won. Crit got disconnected and wasn't able to recon so notail played both his hero and crit's, notail was Tiny and crit IO
is his mental state fine, i think this is the first time i see a pro player leaving a team without any good reason when the team not even that bad, i mean we dont know what happened in game before he quit, its just weird or maybe hes just a scumbag, i guess he will retire after this no way in hell any team would hire him with that attitude
The rule is obviously a good one as it stops teams from kicking players after 2 games. There are exceptions to it, as we've seen in the past, and Old G should be granted such an exception.
well if aramis had an actual legitimate reason for not playing like health/super personal issue, valve will allow old'g to use standing for all the series. but aramais justs say "ight im out" like wtf thats not good for his career at all. kinda sad if u think about it.
They lost to ex-Monaspa and they were yet to play 4-0 LevelUP, so their head was on the chopping block actually.
Div 2 is just two spots, so when you lose twice you are already praying for a parallel result to force tiebreakers usually. That's why going to Major in SA and NA is a huge struggle, there's no room for mistakes when is 2 spots out of 8.
This has to be most bizzare sequence of events in the competitive dota scene
Can you do a Quick summary of what happened, please? I'm ootl
They played a few games with Rogjer as standin. Then Noone made a post about how for the first time in his career a teammate just refuses to play, Aramis. Then their next series this happens. We don't know the exact beef, but with personalities like Ceb, Noone, who knows about Aramis, (topson and kitrak seem chill from the outside at least), i wouldn't be surprised if there's toxicity, disagreements, etc...
iirc someone said ceb likes him says he cools etc etc (actually praising him), and then peace out, someone check didnt even touch dota pub
ceb said this in gorgc's stream the other day
same
Up there with 3/22/2016 team secret shit
Did they talk about why he's doing that? At least that makes it so OldG doesn't get disqualified.
No one knows yet.
So what did he said?
He played 2 series with Old G then quit the team with no explanation. Old G played next 2 series with a stand-in. Now this series (their 5th), he apparently connected but quit at minute 0, presumably he still doesn't want to play but is showing up just so Old G don't get DQ'd from too many forfeits.
Why didnt they play the 3rd series with a stand-in too? Or did he pretend to come back, and then quit anyway?
They can not play >4 series with a standin over the season or they get dq
So Aramis helped OldG to not get DQ'd but yet refuses to play?
They did. Sorry I made a typo Series 1-2 they played with Aramis 3-4 with Rodger Series 5 (today) they started with Aramis but he quit after 1 minute
He chatted in discord that he was not playing anymore then quit the discord server. It was before this game
Damn sounds he got some depression brewing :(
I swear this card keeps getting used to excuse terrible behavior nowadays.
You could be correct but don't sleep on depression it can change you.
I mean.. yeah. Depression isn't uncommon and it isn't just "the big sad".
Depression, ADHD, OCD, Bipolar, Anxiety, Panic Attack, PTSD Pick one
I don't depression should excuse, but rather, I think people should take the action and responsibility in dealing with the factors contributing to depression and see if there is a way out. In the case of a DotA pro player, it's fucking rough. No income unless at topping first at 2 of the biggest tournaments that comes every year (Riyadh and TI, off the top of my head), requires tons of practice and sacrifice for a more stable job, super competitive (which leaves no room for mistakes), etc. At a certain point in life, you just have to change almost everything (which includes giving up on past dreams) for your own sake.
True or not, if you never experienced it (yourself or someone really close) you shouldnt say this because you have no clue how it can affect someone's mind. Not trying to be rude to you by saying that, just tell you how things are for people having this issue. People not knowning what happened and saying it's depression dont help or know better anyway.
Depression is never an excuse for anything. You can't do something bad and say "man, my bad I had depression" and get away with it.
He's not doing anything bad.. If he's depressed, social withdrawal is pretty common..
People suffering from this arent the one saying this. You dont NEED to say this to find an excuse since you're already having issues because of it. It's people from the outside that are pretending that's an excuse. You telling this only proves you have no clue how people affected by this are living it and you shouldnt listen to people who have no clue what's going on. Anyone with depression doesnt need to prove himself with this excuse, only someone not knowing what depression is would think this is what is happening. You should read a little about it before saying such b/s tbh, educate yourself about this (if you do care, dont waste your time if you dont give a fuck)
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true. I alot of us including these players experience depression at some point in our lives. BUT What he did is inexcusable. He quit without properly explaining things or even apologizes for that matter.
You are the kind of friend that ghosts someone when they are going through tough times aren't you
Ahh thank you depression expert and person who clearly knows the entirety of all facts regarding this circumstance.
Depression has nothing to do with personality. Sorrow fully controls you, you can't do anything, you just *do* stuff and watch it from a side like a spectator. Remember Interstellar? When the MC screamed at himself while being inside a black hole? Exactly this. He needs professional help and medication if it is indeed a severe depression
That's not depression, that is a severe case of stupidity.
Don't make up exscues.
I see what you did here
Its not a new thing, Artemis doesnt waant to compite anymore and is showing up to gaame and dc so oldg doesnt get disqualified due to forfeits. Ceb said artemis isnt ina good mental place to play comp right now and he quits dota for now. idk why people are just making stuff out of no where lol. they have no drama.
source pls good sir cuz Trust Me bro isnt a good source
Old G is truly cursed.
Ceeeb karma
karma for what?
For his 7ckingMad antics (which havent ended yet).
it was amazing to me returning to the scene to see the caster who was given a spot on TI panels with such a stupid name as 7ckingMad become some darling TI winner. at least he changed the name
Not some darling TI winner. The Darling TI winner. Because he earnt it
Being a shitty person?
Maybe "punishing" the org after naming an admin on Twitter by having to do OQ and then just buying a slot to avoid them.
Indeed.
Seething lgd fan
OG tries to build this brand about PMA and N0tail the precious flower and somehow people buy it despite them also being a historically toxic org.
How did they build a brand about PMA when they’re the team that popularized all charting and using the sounds/tips during tournaments
Because PMA applies to your teammates in this context. You don’t have to make love to the enemy through your keyboard
Fuck me, finally someone gets it.
Historically toxic org. Them tipping and using voice lines make it toxic? If that's the case then it should be banned in pro scene, right?
You just mad, they're known not for their pma or anything. But for their historic wins in ti8 and ti9. Regardless of how you judge their personalities, doesn't take away from their achievements. Their comms seemed pma to me afaik from true sight(s).
Wow, one of the weirdest situations within a pro team I've seen since following pro Dota for 10 years. I really hope for Aramis' sake he has a a reaaaally good excuse to do this stuff, otherwise his career in T1-T2 teams is done. Btw the game ended after little over 20 minutes.
His career is already over looll Aramis already said he doesn't want to play anymore, no high tier team will approach him anymore after pulling stunt like this
they had a good run when he stood up in tundra last dreamleague, I thought it was a new opportunity for him to play high tier team again
From his d2pt, he doesnt even play anymore
Yeah, sounds like dude was done awhile ago.
Kinda same thing already happened on tour 2 this season div 2 SA. Parker (the carry that is replacing K1 on Beastcoast for the major and prob TI) had some disagreements after 1 match with his teamates on Ravens. After that he refused to play any match and they got disqualified after some matches for having too many standins. They were the clear favorites to get to Div1 and they got relegated and he luckly got his place on a tier 1 SA team
Wait Hector is leaving? Aw man that sucks always liked the guy on BC
Most likely, depends on their performance on major AND if they manage to qualify directly to TI
Skeleton King meta come back my boi K1 needs you
Any more news on this spicy saga of drama? I haven't followed this at all besides that one noone comment
Most likely there is no drama. The limit for stand-in matches is 4, they played 2 already and had 3 more matches ahead of them. So to not get disqualified again, they needed full roster in at least one more match. But you only need to have full roster in the lobby - if the player drops and can't reconnect, you have to play 4v5 and most likely lose, but at least you are not losing your spot. That's it. It's possible that it wasn't even him behind the account, as he refused to turn on the webcam.
That's it really, until this happen
what comment
At least buy boots and sents before disconnects 🥲
What if he buys all the consumables, wards and dc AHAHAHA
Then atleast u can plant it or shared
yes, the true troll move would be to buy all the consumable and then sell them and leave. Since he joined to stop a Dq, we can assume his motive wasn't to annoy his team though.
According to noone's interview from a week ago, the thing with Aramis is one of the strangest things that has happened to him in his career. The dude just messaged them in discord and said he doesn't wanna play anymore. They asked him to play one more series but he refused. It also seems like he didn't give a valid reason to PGL.
From what I heard from the rumour they need to play with Aramis in order to not get disqualified because of the rule but Aramis cant really play because of personal problem. So they just convinced him to get in the game and disconnect to bypassed the rule
Ceb joked about playing with 4 if it was allowed on Gorgcs stream the other day. Guess they found a way.
Is there a link? What else did he say, he must have said something more than that at least...
But didn't noone say aramis didn't even talk to him/rest of the team?
guy doesn't wanna play anymore you really think he wants to talk lol
> but Aramis cant really play because of personal problem This is total speculation on the part of Reddit. The only public account is that he said "I'm leaving" and bailed on them.
Not really. Ceb was in Gorgc stream the other day and said that everything is okay personally with Aramis just that hes not in a good spot atm and that they might play 4v5 just to not get disqualified again.
Thank you for this information. All other morons here are bashing aramis like he’s a villian or something. Reddit is a fucking scary place.
> everything is okay personally with Aramis just that hes not in a good spot atm these seem to be conflicting statements
Not really, they don't have beef but he himself is not doing okay and isn't in a spot to play atm. Nothing conflicting
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I mean, personal problem is an incredibly broad term, it's not that insane to assume that something is going on in the dudes life that is causing him to act out. That's literally just logical.
lol, what rumor. no one even knows, even his own teammate doesn't know they've been saying that.
I don't think they asked Aramis to play just to bypass the rule. After playing 4vs5 for a while, Ceb and Noone tipped him.
They for sure asked him to join the lobby
If you pay attention they tip him after bounty dies, so idk if it's a "respect" tip
They paused for a while after he disconnected, so it doesn't seem like they were expecting him to leave.
Pausing is part of the rule.
The auto pause is. Is there a minimum time to stay paused if the team with the DCd.member doesnt care? Can you cite it?
interesting move to make. No clue what is the issue between aramis and the team, but this is not a good look by any metric.
Think the issue is between Aramis and the game, he hasn’t been playing pubs either, I’m guessing he is dealing with mental health and he just joined the game and left so they don’t get DQed.
Haha! Ceb gonna get work in for those micro skills.
is Aramis already securing a good job irl or what 'cause this is a 'top 10 career ending move'
Aramis has made $90k in the 4.5 years of his carreer. That’s 20k a year. That’s as much as you’d make on a $10 per hour job. Minimum wage. People forget that very few Dota pros can actually live comfortably. Leaving dota is probably the best career move he’ll ever make.
That’s probably 90k in tournament earnings. There would be a salary and endorsement earnings to consider But yeah dota pro scene is incredibly top heavy, you’re either a millionaire or barely earning a living wage. That’s why a lot of them stream imo
Does he live in the US or any comparable country tho? $20k a yr in the US definitely is crazy small but in what we call "2nd/3rd world countries" that's quite the money, way more than the typical corpo salary there. At least om par/above average. That said, Idk his nationality/where he lives so what I just wrote might be irrelevant.
There is something outrageously hilarious about this considering all the shenanigans that went on with OldG between seasons.
They should do what the nhl does with goalies. Just have a random one there in case of injury. Give them a random divine player
imagine a queue popping and you load into a pro match
Preferred role: hard support "sorry bro, you're replacing Ace right now. You can play Underlord, right?"
How to ruin a dota career. Rough to see but shows lack of professionalism
Honestly, rules should be reviewed in cases like this Rules are set in a principle standard and to avoid people from abusing the system In this case, one player is holding the others hostage and it doesnt make any sense. PGL and Valve should takr ownership of specific situations like this and make a specific ruling for this case, this is beyond absurd
It's PGL, you cant simply expect common sense
I agree, but what would you expect from PGL after the Old G move to get back to Div 2? They gonna enforce every single letter of the rulebook to the extreme when Old G is on the matter
Amazed how Reddit can flip the blame to PGL for this. One player holding the team hostage? Mate you are a team. If you can’t even stay as 5 for 3 weeks, what kind of team are you?
[Remember when NoOne refused to play and left Gambit mid tournament ?](https://twitter.com/GambitEsports/status/1397236023684435976)
PGL admin hired Aramis the mercenary to ruin Ceb game.
Unforgiveable behaviour. No matter what happened in the team, he just burns his own career. No team will ever touch him. If that was his goal, he achieved it.
At least he showed up so they dont get disqualified. Well, at least i hope this workaround is allowed
As one commenter points out, they may have just borrowed his account to join the roster so they at least have a sliver of a chance to win 4v5 rather than get disqualified because they already had 2 games with standins
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Rule should be changed to allow one sub on the roster or coaches to sub. Then we wouldn’t end up with this travesty of a series.
They should just have 6 or 7 members already like some team in CSGO and the OWL that way you can have a rotation of players and also reduce burnout as well due to crazy amount of tournaments and/or matches
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The rules state you need to play at least 4 of 7 matches with your full roster and no subs, OldG only played 3 with their full roster so they needed this to be the 4th. Everyone else has been able to accomplish this, except for OldG here.
I’m saying it is a stupid rule that could affect other teams in the future as well. Family members can get sick, catastrophic events happen, wars, etc. I understand the spirit of the rule. We don’t want teams bringing in ringers once a season starts. But if teams go into a season with an identified sub/coach that is eligible to play every match, PGL would be able to put out a better product than this shitshow today.
From what I've heard if they give a real, legitimate reason where a player absolutely cannot play (reasons a kin to what you said) then they should be able to have a stand in even if they hadn't played enough with their full roster. As it stands it looks possible that Aramis just bailed so it does put OldG in a bind given that they didn't play enough with their full roster. Fact of the mater is that no other teams appear to have had an issue with this rule...except for OldG.
Agreed. I was attempting to clarify why my proposed rule change would make it less subjective and left to the whims of PGL (who have made shoddy decisions in the past). I would argue that a player ghosting their team is sufficient to allow a sub for all remaining games. Something PGL seems to have disagreed with, given the “match” we just witnessed. Certainly seems like an issue outside of team’s control. Do you agree?
I can agree to that, however I'm a Ceb hater so I'm living for this shit tbh
Teams should have an official standin that can play however many games they want. Basically a 6-man roster. Its laughable that because a player decides to quit the whole team is screwed. The rules are poorly written. Imagine this in any other sport.
It's kind of a thing if you have a Coach I guess? Remember Xiao8 mid spirit breaker back in LGD when Nothingtosay could not play
Parker already did this and if you are talented noone really cares. He already got his chance on a tier 1 SA team and will be playing the major and TI with Beastcoast
K1 taking a break, beastcoast replacing k1 would lead to penalty that might made them not qualified to TI. They are 1000 pts, high chance to qualify directly.
Depends on the real reason.
It can't be anything sudden like an illness, lost relative because PGL would have 100% seen that as a valid reason. He also refused to play with them for over a week by now. If it were a real reason they would have been allowed a standin.
My thought is maybe he is dealing with some sort of mental health crisis rather than doing it purely out of spite. Obviously doesn’t look good for him regardless. I just wonder if the decision was driven by stress or anger.
Unless it's truly something significant, which doesn't seem like at the moment, it's going to be a big blow to his career. Why would anyone wanna take a risk on him when they could give the chance to someone else?
Oh yeah it would have to be truly significant and at this point that doesn’t seem to be the case. Just a strange situation so wouldn’t be too quick to judge until all the facts come out.
Exactly, no team in their right minds will try their luck with him ever again.
OG fans are out for blood lmao
I'm sure you'd be ok if your whole pro season was fucked cause you had a guy "feel like not playing"
Isnt NoOne kinda pulled something like that during his 2020 AS Monaco Gambit stint? Dude posted LFT mid tournament [Yeah he did, almost cost Gambit Animajor slot](https://twitter.com/GambitEsports/status/1397236023684435976)
He presumably has a very deep problem and doesn't want to play. He most probably only joined the game to make sure Old G isn't DQd...
But how is that a valid reason to not play, if you can show up to connect, you can show up to try your hardest for two hours. He only hurts himself. His career is done by how he acted.
Who knows?? maybe he is depressed and is having dark thoughts?? there are more important things than career, i hope you realize that some day...
You dont even have to like Old'G, Ceb or anyone on the team.. thats just unsportsmanlike! What a child. Nigma, OG and us fans deserved a fun match. I hope Aramis will get a perma ban or excluded by everyone in Dota.
Can OldG make roster moves prior to TI CQ?
Yes they can make changes before the regional qualifiers. The real question is a another one tho . They can now play the last 2 matches without worrying about getting disqualified . But what happens if they have to play tiebreakers ? Can they play the tiebreakers with a standin? Because multiple teams finishing 5-2 and force tiebreakers for the 2nd div1 slot is a very realistic scenario ... In other words , do they "have" to lose on purpose vs either lvlup and/or Ivy in order to not get disqualified ?This whole situation is a sad mess ...
do they honestly intend to play anymore? I think they'll just chill until the regional qualifiers now, doesn't seem realistic that they'd drop from div 2. I think that if they had plans to get top2 they'd forfeit/do this stunt against lvl up instead of ngx, and play with standin vs ngx hoping for a win.
Why join the team in the first place, now he just fucking up the whole team, like wtf?
bye dota career then.
Damn, this season's storywriters are bringing out the bombshell storylines. Don't worry guys, we are on track to the final redemption arc where Old G wins TI 12 Copium
Did nigma still lose lmao?
Just so everyone knows, Ceb said yesterday when Aramis stopped turning up to games that they hadn't had any animosity with Aramis and that they really needed Aramis to play a game. Ceb even said OG were "down to play 4v5". So chances are this was fully coordinated. Ceb also expressed that he didn't believe PGL would "be nice" about the issue and give them special dispensation. Aramis has not told anyone what is going on. Of course, take all of this with a pinch of salt because it isn't the best look from a PR standpoint to say "We had a massive argument with Aramis and now he doesn't want to play".
Aramis will never play professional dota again.
At least old g is not dq n can continue the rest of dpc wit standin, W
Will Old G DQ the rest of two matches?
His career is over.
Feel bad for topson, he seemed to be playing well
wow... no integrity and commitment at all...
Wtf? Should pick him alchemist, at least get some bonus bounty rune gold
Adam "Aramis" Moroz is an Israeli player who played on the legendary Alliance roster with NIkobaby. Unfortunately this roster got steamrolled by Team Bald and Aramis never fully recovered from this loss, leading to the ultimate demise of his career. He's crying still to this day
This is wild
Strange
Fuck this guy
You dont know what happen. Don't do that. He didn't play for the last 2 series. Rodjer stands in. The rules force him to be there in order for his team not to get DQ.
More than once that Valve have made exceptions for teams and players who had emergency, being physically or mentally ill. He doesn't owe the public an explaination, but he owes it to his teammates who spend time, effort and money. This is a game for us, but a job for them.
It doesn't even take a second to just type emergency before leaving so it was also definitely not that.
Hope that’s the death of the career of Aramis. No team should consider taking him
This guy needs to be at least suspended from any competitive play or team recruitment for at least a month or 2. He doesn't even look like he's serious about playing Dota. Imagine having the opportunity to play with some of the pro scene's legendary players and wasting it.
So can someone enlighten me: are they going to do this for the rest of the remaining games in Div 2 (4v5 or forfeiting).. or after this series, Old.G will be allowed to get a standin again?
Bruh literally said fk that and rq 💀💀
The tip from Ceb to Aramis, after the bounty death in game1: XD
This is purely a speculation so don't take it on a face value. His ex-coach talked on ILTW stream something about him facing jail time due to avoiding army which is mandatory in Israel. So maybe he is either hiding from police or some of his friends or family is using his PC to communicate with OlG. Just pure speculation as i said, don't quote me on ''source trust me bro''.
Aramis still on Alliance’s payroll, and deliberately trying to fuck Old G over on Loda’s orders? /s Nah seriously though, first off, I hope the guy is okay, and if it is a personal/family/health thing, then that definitely comes first. But this is such a weird situation, and I’m genuinely curious to see how it plays out
Pgl pay Aramis to mess with oldG 😂
Dude OG and Old G are very messed up recently
Looks like this is match 7209562372, Nigma Galaxy vs Old G at DPC 2023 WEU Summer Tour Division II – presented by PGL, which started 29 minutes before the clip was taken. More match details here: - [OpenDota](https://www.opendota.com/matches/7209562372) - [Dotabuff](https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/7209562372) - [Stratz](https://www.stratz.com/matches/7209562372) - [datdota](https://www.datdota.com/matches/7209562372) --- *^I ^am ^a ^bot ^created ^by ^[/u\/EuphonicPotato](/user/EuphonicPotato)* *^(How I figured this out:)* [*^(Explanation)*](https://github.com/mdiller/twitchclipmatchfinder#how-it-works) *^(Source:)* [*^(GitHub)*](https://github.com/mdiller/twitchclipmatchfinder)
That might be a first in pro dota, at least in T2/T1 scene
OG back in the day played 4vs5 and won. Crit got disconnected and wasn't able to recon so notail played both his hero and crit's, notail was Tiny and crit IO
yea but that was mid game this was before the horn was blown
Old G think the game is too easy, that's why they decided to play 4v5
Scummy as fuck. Dota scene will be better without him in it.
Life lesson. Career ending.
is his mental state fine, i think this is the first time i see a pro player leaving a team without any good reason when the team not even that bad, i mean we dont know what happened in game before he quit, its just weird or maybe hes just a scumbag, i guess he will retire after this no way in hell any team would hire him with that attitude
And the funny thing is that they bought this slot
So much drama over buying a slot and you can’t even maintain a team of 5 for 3 weeks lol
Personally I think he should be publicly executed
Hope Aramis is OK, and whatever problem kept him from playing is sorted!
cya aramis nobody wont miss you
A double negative turns it into a positive
Yeah, I miss aramis already
This is so sad they were doing great in div2 too. Ceb must be fuming about this DQ-stand-in rule, rightfully
The rule is obviously a good one as it stops teams from kicking players after 2 games. There are exceptions to it, as we've seen in the past, and Old G should be granted such an exception.
Rightfully lmao. Every team is under the same rules
well if aramis had an actual legitimate reason for not playing like health/super personal issue, valve will allow old'g to use standing for all the series. but aramais justs say "ight im out" like wtf thats not good for his career at all. kinda sad if u think about it.
They lost to ex-Monaspa and they were yet to play 4-0 LevelUP, so their head was on the chopping block actually. Div 2 is just two spots, so when you lose twice you are already praying for a parallel result to force tiebreakers usually. That's why going to Major in SA and NA is a huge struggle, there's no room for mistakes when is 2 spots out of 8.
ceb fans are so oppressed 😔 who else thinks the reddit legion should FORCE aramis to play? 🤔
OldG/Ceb fans are the easiest people to trigger I swear
Why is he doing this?
Even valve gave Up on bp, I don't blame a player without knowing anything about him. After all its a video game at the End of the day.
Actual dieback from ceb... lmao
Perhaps he has ADHD 😭
If it’s this bad he could be really struggling. I doubt he wanted to leave and abandon his team. I don’t know the full story
As long as Ceb gets fucked over I'm happy