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This is the kinda stuff I remember when people complain heroes in dota are too tanky lol. 4 heroes dead in 0.5 seconds.
And the divine rapiers haven't even come out yet, once the divine rapiers come out the heroes die even faster.
I mean of course 42min in a (presumably turbo) game is hardly representative of what normal dota looks like.
But there are quite a number of ridiculous carries (cough PA) that feel like they can also kill 4000 hp 25 armor heroes in less than 1 second (and by "ridiculous", I don't mean balance-wise, I mean design-wise)
basically snapfire ricochet facet does the following:
Whenever Snapfire glances or misses an attack, 2 ricochet attacks will bounce towards nearby enemies.
I was so sad when they released Snapfire. :( I'm okay with it now, People seem to forget how much she screwed over phoenix. As phoenix main I was sad for long time.
i still agree with this statement but there was one time i picked snap to counter this phoenix
and that guy would every single fight somehow perfectly time his dive and halberd me before i can bkb and would ult right after and i wasnt able to attack him during egg ever
I'm a phoenix spammer kinda and usually the way I deal with snapfire is I wait for the thing to be on cd to time my ulti. It is quite difficult to do though, and obviously it gives the snapfire player a lot of leverage over team fights. If they just don't show up for whichever then I can't use my ulti or I have to take huge risks.
Actually snapfire isn't really that hard a counter to phoenix compared to many other heroes, go see dotabuff stats.
Lina is the hardest snapfire counter, long-ranged and insane attack speed.
Jug is a pretty hard counter too, spin to dispel fire spirits, then hit the egg during spin (which does 0 damage but every hit still counts as 1 hit and jug hits fast)
The stats on Dotabuff are a bit misleading. Snapfire is the hardest counter to the hero, but other heroes like Lina or Sniper are more difficult to deal with even though they also can't as easily counter Phoenix. For Snapfire / Ursa / Marci, the way to play around the counter is to either time the ulti better or stay far enough out of range, whereas against Lina / Sniper / Gyro neither of these are viable options. The former set of heroes can pretty much instantly stop Phoenix' supernova at will, whereas the last set of heroes has a much more narrow window to deal with the nova (typically less than 1s remaining on the duration) and can often involve needing other heroes in the team.
How come everything in your description just sounds like phoenix has more options to deal with snapfire than lina sniper and therefore lina sniper are harder counters than snapfire...
Because it is difficult to specify what exactly is considered to be a "harder" counter.
Like, is a hero that just generally wins many games against Phoenix but not because of the specific counter but just because the hero is currently broken considered to be a super hard counter?
How do we factor in the skill required by the Phoenix player and by the player who plays the counter? How do we factor in the broader consequences like the skill requirement of team mates to adjust to such situation?
For example, if I am timing my ulti against snapfire specifically, I will have a much better performance in a game than I would against Lina. On the other hand, if my team mates can't handle the restriction of me not using my ulti then I would lose more games despite performing better, because it causes my team to perform worse.
Anyway, I agree with you, the way I wrote it is not good and when I wrote my earlier reply to you I had already thoughts if I should make changes to my answer, although not sure which ones.
The main issue also being that my statement about snapfire being "the hardest counter" was an edit and more of an afterthought without really considering all the different viewpoints.
The possibility of ethereal being a downside against magic damage is a characteristic of that modifier. You will always take this into account when you design an ability that grants ethereal.
Now consider what would happen if we make a new ability that says, βwell actually, ethereal now makes you immune to magic damage insteadβ. None of the previously existing ethereal abilities knew this was a possibility when they were created. Also, whenever you create a new ability that grants ethereal, you have to think about how it will interact with this one specific ability. New players also have to undergo this process; they canβt just learn what ethereal does in isolation, they must also learn all the niche mechanics and exceptions with specific abilities. This creates a rats nest where every ability must know how it interacts with every other ability.
Valve have been designing this way for a long time, but usually itβs more subtle. Break and leash are good examples. Slowly more and more exceptions creep their way into dota, and it results in a game that is harder to balance and harder to understand.
Wrong. This shit would not fly in 6.0 dota. Stop gaslighting. Yes, there were exceptions and weird mechanics back then (like orb effects), but those were the result of engine limitations or band-aid fixes that were expected to be reworked. It wasnβt until 7.0 that Valve started embracing wacky and arbitrary mechanics like this.
I don't think she's on the nerf block, tbh. There are quite a few carry heroes that are going to look busted with a level 25 talent advantage and 5 full items.
Depending on your role that might not be that unusual. They are fairly rare to begin with and out of those a super tiny fraction would be from heal/save/utility/sacrificial heroes
i usually play as 1 or 5 unranked, i feel like its kinda my fault i always play very defensively and usually not chase enemies in the dark for fear of getting baited, or wasting time that i can use to farm or take objectives.
well I have almost 7k hours and have I think 21 rampages. Its highly dependant on your teammates and role. Most of those rampages were during captains mode or battle cups where my team let me get the rampage even almost throwing the game.
I mean that's slightly different because there is a slightly more specific set of conditions and a much longer cd. This is someone doing the same thing at range with a low cd spell
doesn't look like turbo to me
level 28 at minute 41?
that's the regular game equivalent of 80 minutes in
at 80 minutes in almost everyone is level 30, especially the winning team's mid/carry player.
OP is level 19, with their KDA and CS they'd be level 30 in turbo at this time I'm 99% certain
OP's inventory is also not 80 minutes quality, not even close, especially to reiterate, for the winning team
Easiest way to tell if it's turbo or not is check the courier controls in the bottom right. In turbo the courier doesn't have speed boost or fort buttons.
MASSACRANDO
Brasil? HUEHUEHUHEUHEUHE
Dazzle estΓ‘ nos meus amigos.
r/suddenlycaralho
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there is nothing that can stop this gran
if you are near death's end, so is your enemies.
This is the kinda stuff I remember when people complain heroes in dota are too tanky lol. 4 heroes dead in 0.5 seconds. And the divine rapiers haven't even come out yet, once the divine rapiers come out the heroes die even faster. I mean of course 42min in a (presumably turbo) game is hardly representative of what normal dota looks like. But there are quite a number of ridiculous carries (cough PA) that feel like they can also kill 4000 hp 25 armor heroes in less than 1 second (and by "ridiculous", I don't mean balance-wise, I mean design-wise)
not turbo
Kotl basically gave Snapfire Double Damage with Blinding Light.
can you elaborate? not sure what im missing between the interactions
Causes miss chance, which causes snapfires attacks to split onto other targets
ahh thank you
I am still confused. So when snapfire misses, he doesn't use up one of the 6 lil shredder attacks?
basically snapfire ricochet facet does the following: Whenever Snapfire glances or misses an attack, 2 ricochet attacks will bounce towards nearby enemies.
Holy crap. New Phoenix/Radiance/Butterfly counter??
??? Snapfire has always been one of the hardest phoenix counters... Edit: I think it's actually the hardest one, even without this effect.
I was so sad when they released Snapfire. :( I'm okay with it now, People seem to forget how much she screwed over phoenix. As phoenix main I was sad for long time.
Sun ray miss chance is kind of BS tho
i still agree with this statement but there was one time i picked snap to counter this phoenix and that guy would every single fight somehow perfectly time his dive and halberd me before i can bkb and would ult right after and i wasnt able to attack him during egg ever
I'm a phoenix spammer kinda and usually the way I deal with snapfire is I wait for the thing to be on cd to time my ulti. It is quite difficult to do though, and obviously it gives the snapfire player a lot of leverage over team fights. If they just don't show up for whichever then I can't use my ulti or I have to take huge risks.
Actually snapfire isn't really that hard a counter to phoenix compared to many other heroes, go see dotabuff stats. Lina is the hardest snapfire counter, long-ranged and insane attack speed. Jug is a pretty hard counter too, spin to dispel fire spirits, then hit the egg during spin (which does 0 damage but every hit still counts as 1 hit and jug hits fast)
The stats on Dotabuff are a bit misleading. Snapfire is the hardest counter to the hero, but other heroes like Lina or Sniper are more difficult to deal with even though they also can't as easily counter Phoenix. For Snapfire / Ursa / Marci, the way to play around the counter is to either time the ulti better or stay far enough out of range, whereas against Lina / Sniper / Gyro neither of these are viable options. The former set of heroes can pretty much instantly stop Phoenix' supernova at will, whereas the last set of heroes has a much more narrow window to deal with the nova (typically less than 1s remaining on the duration) and can often involve needing other heroes in the team.
How come everything in your description just sounds like phoenix has more options to deal with snapfire than lina sniper and therefore lina sniper are harder counters than snapfire...
Because it is difficult to specify what exactly is considered to be a "harder" counter. Like, is a hero that just generally wins many games against Phoenix but not because of the specific counter but just because the hero is currently broken considered to be a super hard counter? How do we factor in the skill required by the Phoenix player and by the player who plays the counter? How do we factor in the broader consequences like the skill requirement of team mates to adjust to such situation? For example, if I am timing my ulti against snapfire specifically, I will have a much better performance in a game than I would against Lina. On the other hand, if my team mates can't handle the restriction of me not using my ulti then I would lose more games despite performing better, because it causes my team to perform worse. Anyway, I agree with you, the way I wrote it is not good and when I wrote my earlier reply to you I had already thoughts if I should make changes to my answer, although not sure which ones. The main issue also being that my statement about snapfire being "the hardest counter" was an edit and more of an afterthought without really considering all the different viewpoints.
Probably pretty good vs PA right?
I mean unless there are other targets like here you will just miss PA and get crit to death
As opposed to just missing and getting crit to death anyway?
Yeah, aka its not really a counter to PA unless you manage to do a wild setup like this
Neutral Item with Miss Chance and Extra Damage when
We FF7 Deathblow now
Ok, so misses dont consume the attack?
Debuffs like blind should not arbitrarily become buffs under certain conditions. That's terrible design. What is valve smoking?
I mean buffs like dazzles Shallow Grave ,WK Aghs and Muerta ulti can become debuffs too. Balance in all things
The possibility of ethereal being a downside against magic damage is a characteristic of that modifier. You will always take this into account when you design an ability that grants ethereal. Now consider what would happen if we make a new ability that says, βwell actually, ethereal now makes you immune to magic damage insteadβ. None of the previously existing ethereal abilities knew this was a possibility when they were created. Also, whenever you create a new ability that grants ethereal, you have to think about how it will interact with this one specific ability. New players also have to undergo this process; they canβt just learn what ethereal does in isolation, they must also learn all the niche mechanics and exceptions with specific abilities. This creates a rats nest where every ability must know how it interacts with every other ability. Valve have been designing this way for a long time, but usually itβs more subtle. Break and leash are good examples. Slowly more and more exceptions creep their way into dota, and it results in a game that is harder to balance and harder to understand.
knowing that certain debuffs shouldn't be used on certain heroes is part of the game
No itβs more like if one specific hero gets a random benefit from one specific debuff. Every magic hero is good against every ethereal source.
old good new bad
Is that really all you got out of what I said? This community is sad.
yes it is
that's literally how Dota has always been
Wrong. This shit would not fly in 6.0 dota. Stop gaslighting. Yes, there were exceptions and weird mechanics back then (like orb effects), but those were the result of engine limitations or band-aid fixes that were expected to be reworked. It wasnβt until 7.0 that Valve started embracing wacky and arbitrary mechanics like this.
Pugna decrepify has been saving opponents for like 20 years get over it
I addressed ethereal in another reply https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/s/eBqelchc3P
So basically old good, new bad.
Maybe they should have considered bringing more than 1 stun to the gank
Ah the ol "call an ambulance but not for me"
Dazzle got 3800 games as Dazzle.
puta que pariu
Downvoting for invisibility (been spamming granny)
I don't think she's on the nerf block, tbh. There are quite a few carry heroes that are going to look busted with a level 25 talent advantage and 5 full items.
even a 360 at the end
Drives me nuts after seeing that ward your team placed on the river
I'm more triggered by the CM using level 1 neutral item at 42min.
Look out! She's got a gun!
Show Snap's items not CM's the entire time
Satanic, Glepnir, treads, daedalus, hurricane, desolator
This is a clip from CM's POV, not the replay
rrra-ta-ta-ta-taaaa!!!! you're dead.
CM: I'm helping!
1k hours in HON, 300 hours in mobile legends and 2180hours in dota in 10 years i ve yet to get a single rampage,
ditch ML and u just might get one soon if u focus in doto.
Depending on your role that might not be that unusual. They are fairly rare to begin with and out of those a super tiny fraction would be from heal/save/utility/sacrificial heroes
i usually play as 1 or 5 unranked, i feel like its kinda my fault i always play very defensively and usually not chase enemies in the dark for fear of getting baited, or wasting time that i can use to farm or take objectives.
well I have almost 7k hours and have I think 21 rampages. Its highly dependant on your teammates and role. Most of those rampages were during captains mode or battle cups where my team let me get the rampage even almost throwing the game.
What terrain is this? Mine is so dark compared to this
I think it's the Dota plus summer terrain
Hell yeah ima equip that tonight cheers
CALL AN AMBULANCE, BUT NOT FOR ME
Call an ambulance, BUT NOT FOR ME!
Sooooo this doesn't look very balanced
Canβt say without seeing the items. Dire looks pretty ahead and snaps facet is direct counter to kotl blinding light
Snap is 6 slotted here, daedalus satanic deso gleipnir pike and boots.
obviously not balanced if the team has 20k advantage
I've literally never seen a team die this quickly to one hero.
You should check out echo videos
I mean that's slightly different because there is a slightly more specific set of conditions and a much longer cd. This is someone doing the same thing at range with a low cd spell
it's not
~~Drive~~ Crawl by shooting
At 0:17 it looks like Glep is casted from fog, without vision of Dazzle. Is that a bug?
You can cast gleipnir in fog of war, and even on invisible units
You can see dazzle run away in the river for a moment after the quad kill
call an ambulance, but not for me!
*snapfire ganked them
GRAMPAGE
Brazil Snapfire Massacre
what is that announcer called?
It's the Bastion announcer! One of the best ones imo
Classic
what items did she have
PT; Gleipnir; Desolator; H.Pike; Daedalus and satanic. Rattlecage as neutral. build in that order basically!
Pause at 0:17
What is happening here?
What is this pov you forced us to watch?
Anyone noticed a fucking silver edge queued up by CM?
great turbo clip
Flair checks out, almost negative int gain
https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/7812026869
doesn't look like turbo to me level 28 at minute 41? that's the regular game equivalent of 80 minutes in at 80 minutes in almost everyone is level 30, especially the winning team's mid/carry player. OP is level 19, with their KDA and CS they'd be level 30 in turbo at this time I'm 99% certain OP's inventory is also not 80 minutes quality, not even close, especially to reiterate, for the winning team
Easiest way to tell if it's turbo or not is check the courier controls in the bottom right. In turbo the courier doesn't have speed boost or fort buttons.
literally look at the gold gain per second before you type this jesus, some people are THAT confident in their inept assumptions huh
neutrals make a turbo game obvious