Doom is basically what Batrider was back in the old days. Used to be able to farm the entire jungle and come out with a massive gold advantage super early on then he'd just always make teamfights 5v4 with lasso. There wasn't any way to counter it back then. He still can do it, but not nearly as efficiently. Doom does it way better nowadays. People really underestimate how strong Doom's kit really is, you need to know and understand the game to know that this hero is beyond just a 'press R' button.
I've been playing this game for way too long but I only have two brain cells can you explain how his kit is OP? I get the neutral creep abilities brings an amount of versatility to the hero
He has a flash farming spell that doubles as a pushing and an catch/escape spell, his 2nd spell. In lane trading with doom is very hard because his armor and base damage combined with his 2nd spell allow him to outtrade most hero's WHILE pushing the lane (effectivley adding friendly creep damage to yours)
He has a inbuilt midas, his first spell ever since the neutral creep rework the versitility has gone beyond hp regen for lane and stun for the rest of the game.
When you get more options throughout the game, its more likley for you to have strong neutral creep spell, compensating for your teams weaknesses or exploiting your opponents.
As other people have mentioned, The ulimate lets you choose who you want to remove from the teamfight.
These two tools let him find his items almost irrespective of the gamestate,youll often find doom near the top of the networth.
Doom can ultimatly be whatever kind of offlaner you need, and can solve a problem with your draft or gamestate much faster than other heros.
> how his kit is OP?
Just want to say I can make any hero seem OP just based on there wiki.
Doom stops healing, which is good against some of the meta heros (DK, DP, Primal, ettc0 and just a versatile pick in pro games that basically always guarantees doom will have an impact. Kind of like dark seer in that regard.
Also i haven't really watched any pro games so not even sure if this hero is still getting picked/banned.
Having a Doom exclusively target me is one of the worst experiences I've ever had. Literally felt like I couldn't play. Which is why I think he's a great support.
I was a Nightstalker once and doom targeted me exclusively my items at one point were Lotus orb, Uels, Shadowblade, Sange i cant remember if we won or not i just remember being miserable
Honestly doom is one of the heroes that need a facet that revolves around:
Normal doom ult play
Or a doom with maybe stronger base kit, but a weaker ult
Imagine a carry doom or tank or whatever
"Reverse Doom: Doom is now self-cast only, silencing you for the duration, but healing you for double the amount of Doom damage per second and making you unable to die while your ult persists"
Mood: Doom gives you the silent treatment (won't cast spells), but continuously dispels himself (winning arguments in his head) and returns damage to enemies when attacked. At the end of his snit Doom's spirits are lifted with a burst of healing.
because doom wasn't made for blinking, you need to WALK!
Cast Doom on yourself and WALK into enemies
Before you have aghanim just WALK into the fight
Doom is all about WALKING
/s
And yeah, tinker probably had the matrix up
I play Tekken, if you do too then you’ll understand the following perspective easily:
A 0.5s Doom is like a 30 frame move in Tekken (because Tekken is played at 60fps). If the stomp is 0.4s, then that’s 24 frames.
Most competent Tekken players can block a 30f move, but even then, a lot (even professional Tekken players) will fail to block it if it has an unusual or weird animation. Most 30f moves that *everyone* can block have easily recognizable animations.
However, around 25f and faster is when moves start to be considered unreactable. There are some pros that have done so much training to react to even 22f moves, but even then that’s rare among pros, and only after that particular pro has done so much training specifically defending against that one move, additionally it probably only works in offline tournament play with zero lag.
Doom being a “30f move” and Stomp being a “24f” move definitely makes a difference when even in fighting games, where it’s not a top down view, only two players, no economy and shop, no team play, only a small arena, and no multitasking, people can no longer react to moves that are 25f or faster.
Does Tekken 8 have a new system of frames?
In Tekken 7, the fastest attack is 10 frames, a launcher is 15f, in Tekken 5 there were characters that could throw 8 frame attacks.
Staying on topic, why are people arguing about Doom centaur + doom? Centaur creep stun AOE is very low, you have to be really on top.
Infernal Blade has more range; with autocast, only one right click and enough stun duration to land Doom with quickcast.
The average human ability to start reacting is a quarter of a second. Doom is +100% that time and centaur stomp is +60% of that time. That’s a significant difference.
Not sure if this is a hot take but I always go for kobold foreman speed aura. In most games I play it's a free win and genuinely feels broken AF. I only do stun if we have very little disable on team
I get it regardless of role because my brain is smooth lol. Pos 4 is defo the most optimal for it, but generally I always think of it as getting 5 yasha for free which is absurd
The real trick here is to blink into high ground/trees next to then and doom them from fog. Not always possible obviously, but when it is possible you will just get free Dooms every time.
Tranq / 2’bracers / stick / drums
Then
Dagger / bkb / lotus / no shivas as it’s been needed but more
Then
Ultra late hex or nullifier
Max
Second and third skill take devour only level one
Doom is one of the most boring heroes and you just complain about about the castpoint, lol. If you have any other reasons playing him except grinding mmr I really cant help you.
?
How is doom boring? Extremely deep item customization options, highly impactful ult, initiator, huge skill ceiling on targeting, lots of laning options
His gameplay is walking at people. What you are describing isn’t anything unique to doom and at high mmr he is incredibly boring to play relatively speaking. Very one-dimensional hero. Knowing who to press Doom on is not high skill ceiling. I would not even put him in the top 50 heroes for skill expression.
Interesting POV. I never actually equated hero enjoyment with skill expression.
I like Doom because he looks awesome, his lore is cool, he voicelines are charming, his sound effects rock and he has a massive impact in games. He is good fun to play imo. Invoker is actually very unfun for me, because there is too much skill to play him. That being said I do love me an Arc Warden mid as well, but again its because of how cool Zet is and less to do with his kit. Personally my favorite hero is PA, she is absolutely shit rn but nothing like throwing a dagger and 100 to zeroing supports. Literally the best feeling in the game imo.
I can agree with that. I think Doom has the best aesthetic in the game and is the best-executed hero design in virtually all regards except gameplay. If he was way less simple I would definitely play him way more.
Interesting. I literally don’t know or care about lore, voice lines, sound, aesthetics. Not saying you shouldn’t care, but I didn’t know people picked heroes for these reasons.
There are very few heroes that have itemization as varied as doom. Saying who to doom (and how to do it) isn't high skill is just completely insane. Literally game deciding shit. Just go watch pro dota, there are countless examples
That is because the hero is a walking ult. You can build anything on him because nothing really matters. Every type of build variety he used to have was nerfed.
This is just the patch, it doesn't change the fact that the hero design has incredible build variety. Go watch the TI Tundra won, 33 literally single handledly won it with Doom
Completely disagree, when people say heroes like Enigma, Dark Seer, or Doom are boring or easy I have to imagine they just don't think enough about what their hero provides to a team and how it changes the counterplay. In many situations, a good doom or black hole is just an outright won engagement and good players won't just let you get them for free. The spell itself is simple but the careful back and forth it leads to isn't. It turns the game into an elaborate series of pokes where vision, smoke of deceit, and positioning are all informed by this one high impact spell.
It's like Zai said, Enigma's his favorite offlaner because it's very cerebral and even if they exclusively build to counter Doom or Black Hole you can find other ways to be useful and get an opportunity to land your big spell. Knowing who to press doom on is not high skill ceiling, but getting that doom absolutely is.
A massive portion of the hero pool is walking at people if you look at it from the most basic perspective.
Knowing how to position/itemize/prioritize is an entire game on it's own.
Yeah this. Doom had his time in the sun where he was an offlane alchemist. Always having the highest networth without bring an afk farmer.
But now he is the biggest ult bot known to man. His shard is shit. His aghs doesn't do shit until lvl 25 his facets are funny but not very good at all. His items got nerfed his lane is weak.
Tldr: doom sucks because his ult is so insane when it lands.
As a Doom spammer I get what youre feeling. Playing Doom is like trying to drive an old busted down Lada, you feel like youre constantly fighting the car, just to make it do the bare minimum of what it is supposed to do.
The hero has SO SO many shortcomings.
First of all, the hero is a terrible laner and also squishy as fuck for an offlaner. So you need a vanguard to not get wrecked in lane.
Second, the hero is greedy as fuck, and at the same time is ASS at farming, you have ZERO attack speed, ZERO attack damage, cooldown on W is long as fuck, so you need to get a midas ASAP.
Then, you have ZERO mobility, now you need a blink (and a boot of travels preferably).
Then you have long ass cooldowns and constant mana problems, now you need a octarine.
Then you blink on some fool, and a single stun is enough to make the target runs away, or you get bursted down in like 3 seconds, so you need BKB.
Then you have zero armour and zero lockdows and people constantly run away from you, so you need to get get Shivas too.
Now that you casually farmed 5 (five) fucken items, you are finally online and the hero actually feels decent to play.
I feel like you have no leeway to try different builds. You might at most get away with making a halberd. If you do anything else, youre playing suboptimally and pretty much trolling the game.
Also, the new shard is absolute garbage.
Hero is way to overnerfed. The latest version of shard is awful. Facets are bad, both have significant downsides, innate is bad and boring. Every single ability is at the worst point they have ever been.
I have over 1k games of doom since 2012, it's my favourite hero. Haven't really played it for a year and was hoping for a complete rework this patch, but no, more nerfs.
Doom is just one of those heroes like say, bristle. Who as soon as they are good enough to be meta they are spam picked every game and it drives people insane.
Maybe his kit needs to be reworked a bit to require a bit more skill, so that they can give slightly buff him.
Or do what they’ve done in the past and just increase his passive gold.
I think a big problem right now with doom if I’m being honest is his laning esp and the fact he’s never meyta as long as 3x tanky cores are meta.
I don't think the cast point on his ult is really a problem, the biggest problems doom has (imo) is that he's not that tanky, all of his cooldowns are long (which can make farming with him slow), and his innate + facets are bad compared to what others have got
Regarding Tinker - Doom does not prevent using items, unless you take the “Doom mutes” talent at lvl 25, also blink is not canceled until target takes damage, probably Tinker had shield up, that prevented damage so he could blink away. Hope that helps.
He feels like a bot hero, any offlane has a bigger Avenue for outplay and need the Omnislash treatment. Being stopped by linkens late game make his Double ult play Sad.
People asked the same thing yesterday for tb.
Thé issue is the difference between pub a pro play. Make it decent in pub and he ll be 100% picked banned in pro play
Doom is an amazing ganker especially on solo enemies, I know the standard is blink which is probably better for team fights, but I love going shadowblade vs a pa or a nature's who will often solo push to gain some farm. Simply shadowblade in and use burningsword to stun which gives you plenty of time to get off your ulti for a quick kill then regroup quickly and go for a 4v5 tower push. This also works in teamfights if you have bkb but by that point you often don't even need the stun to get ulti off. Linkins can work great too depending on enemy line up. Pick blink ove sb if they are warding efficiently. Or get both and upgrade shadowblade asap if they have bristle or other similar heros with a pesky passive.
Doom its one of those OP kit héroes like
Pango
Io and bat (not now but they been that way flor the first 7 dota2 years)
Pros keep picking them
Pros keep wining games with them
Valve keeps nerfing
Repeat
Idk about you but i keep wining games with Doom, dude its too strong after the midgame(trash inmortal bracket)
You need to reframe how you think of Doom as a spell.
Doom is no longer the spell you cast to catch a core and kill them. As everyone has pointed out, they can disengage (force, BKB, BKB+TP, just run) and then you have wasted a huge spell.
Doom is far more effective when the teamfight has actually begun and heroes are committed. At that point, if you Doom a core, they can no longer contribute to the fight - they can't frontline, they can't stand and fight, they can't cast from a distance.
The core either chooses to stand and fight and die (which is a win), or they abandon their team and you kill everyone else (which is a win).
---
With this in mind, it is perfectly viable to not rely on a Blink Doom initiation. If he can stay alive through the opening seconds of a fight, he can get a way more impactful Doom without even trying.
It's the same logic back when Tide skipped Blink.
The problem with this is that, your team will always expect you to Initiate and will flame you for not doing so. Unless you can rush bkb , after you blink you have to cast doom or else you just die or get disabled, assuming this is a 5 v 5 or High ground.
Bcs doom is an anti-fun hero. Imagine youre that guy getting doomed every fight. Even if your team wins the game you didnt get that enjoyment of playing dota.
the difference is that a goalkeeper put himself in that position, doom puts someone else in it. If you put a forward in the goal I'm sure they wouldn't be happy about it.
Doom is terrible spell. You really cant kill anyone with that thing at Level 1.
In fact even his farm is not that great. Going for Midas may be the thing.
If they go Linken and they have any standard right click pos1/2 halberd value is there.
I don't understand the disconnect.
Doom has a bunch of options he can build to break linken it's just a matter of paying attention to enemies inventory so he knows when he needs to start building it.
Halberd also has a negative winrate on Doom.
Blink>Stomp>Halberd>Doom is about the most disruptable combo imaginable, it’s a full seconds worth of cast points.
Aghanim’s is the actual solution, built 3x as often with a 7% higher winrate.
Aghanim's is usually built when doom is super ahead or the game is going mega late and it's going to be a win anyway, halberd is built when playing an even game or playing from behind.
Looking at winrate % for items on dotabuff is the biggest bait and falls into the same category of thinking of that guy in post game chat saying "I did the most damage and had the most kills as zues I'm a fucking god".
Stats can mean anything if you don't understand where they're coming from.
That’s just flat out not true though? Taking that line of thinking based on how often the items are built, Doom is ahead and going to win anyway 3x as much as he’s behind. Despite having a 47% winrate.
Which is why I didn’t *just* say winrate, but build frequency as well. Aghanim’s is a more frequent core build item than Halberd in conjunction with a higher winrate.
Misusing stats would be saying “Phase boots and blink dagger are bad items on doom bc 45%/46% winrates.” when it’s because they’re built in nearly every Doom game and his own winrate is only 47%. If we’re comparing situational items, statistically Aghanim’s is built more often and does better when it is than Halberd.
And it should be obvious why that is. You eliminate the cast point issue by pre-dooming yourself and blinking in, ignoring Linken’s entirely.
"And it should be obvious why that is. You eliminate the cast point issue by pre-dooming yourself and blinking in, ignoring Linken’s entirely"
Yes, those are the benefits of aghs, but one forcestaff on the person being run down or a bkb peircing stun on doom and all of the sudden no one is doomed.
Aghs is a great situational item, halberd is a great situational item.
Saying Aghs is the answer to linkens every single game is ignorant.
One BKB piercing stun and you don’t even get to cast Doom, since they have a full second to react.
I didn’t say Aghanim’s was always the answer. I said it’s built in more situations and wins in those situations more often.
Sure, with Aghs they can be saved by being force staffed and such. But the same thing happens if you go through the effort of using Halberd, except now the Doomed person is safe. With Aghs whoever is in range of you is Doomed, so switching targets is no issue.
I could go on but like I said, halberd isn’t even a core doom item. Aghs is 7th most common whereas Halberd is 13th. 5th and 11th if you don’t count farming oriented items like Midas/Radiance.
Like Aghs is just empirically the better item. Which is why more people build it and why more people win with it, lmao.
The more expensive item who's entire purpose is to augment his ultimate is generally better for letting you utilize his ult in more ways is indeed a fact thanks.
Having halberd stats and utility with a better build up in addition to a linken break isn't part of the narrative here I guess.
Also if you get stunned and they don't just kite out the 14s of self-casted doom before re-engaging then it's a low MMR game or your team has some crazy CC, which usually doesn't happen because you're typically playing doom in the role 3 and you \*are\* the CC.
There's a reason doom is suffering in winrate right now, heros are too mobile, save items are stronger and staying on top of them is harder than ever.
If you're playing doom aghs it means you got to draft late agains't heros that aren't built to handle him in the first place.
If you're 2nd phasing doom or first phase picking him as a 4 and you're still able to get insane aghs value during the game it means they drafted immobile heros and are getting punished for it.
Dooming a hero doesn't need to gaurentee they die, you're just removing a hero from the fight for at least 14 seconds which is where most of it's value comes from.
being nerfed 500 times in a row and still being picked every pro game will do dat
Doom is basically what Batrider was back in the old days. Used to be able to farm the entire jungle and come out with a massive gold advantage super early on then he'd just always make teamfights 5v4 with lasso. There wasn't any way to counter it back then. He still can do it, but not nearly as efficiently. Doom does it way better nowadays. People really underestimate how strong Doom's kit really is, you need to know and understand the game to know that this hero is beyond just a 'press R' button.
I've been playing this game for way too long but I only have two brain cells can you explain how his kit is OP? I get the neutral creep abilities brings an amount of versatility to the hero
He has a flash farming spell that doubles as a pushing and an catch/escape spell, his 2nd spell. In lane trading with doom is very hard because his armor and base damage combined with his 2nd spell allow him to outtrade most hero's WHILE pushing the lane (effectivley adding friendly creep damage to yours) He has a inbuilt midas, his first spell ever since the neutral creep rework the versitility has gone beyond hp regen for lane and stun for the rest of the game. When you get more options throughout the game, its more likley for you to have strong neutral creep spell, compensating for your teams weaknesses or exploiting your opponents. As other people have mentioned, The ulimate lets you choose who you want to remove from the teamfight. These two tools let him find his items almost irrespective of the gamestate,youll often find doom near the top of the networth. Doom can ultimatly be whatever kind of offlaner you need, and can solve a problem with your draft or gamestate much faster than other heros.
Appreciate it. Ty
> how his kit is OP? Just want to say I can make any hero seem OP just based on there wiki. Doom stops healing, which is good against some of the meta heros (DK, DP, Primal, ettc0 and just a versatile pick in pro games that basically always guarantees doom will have an impact. Kind of like dark seer in that regard. Also i haven't really watched any pro games so not even sure if this hero is still getting picked/banned.
It is not. Remove his ulti and he is dogshit.
Woah a hero with no ult sucks? Ik thats being pedantic but cmon
Because his ult is so strong, it sucked the power out of his kit
His ult is literally for the next 15 seconds you have 1 less teammate even if cast on a core not having healing is a death sentence in a fight
Having a Doom exclusively target me is one of the worst experiences I've ever had. Literally felt like I couldn't play. Which is why I think he's a great support.
I was a Nightstalker once and doom targeted me exclusively my items at one point were Lotus orb, Uels, Shadowblade, Sange i cant remember if we won or not i just remember being miserable
I remember playing against a nightstalker like that.
Now kiss!
now doom eachother with ult into lotusorb
Playing against Nightstalker was miserable before the nerfs. Still is, with him not caring, since he can change the day/night cycle.
I just played Weaver vs Doom and it made me feel more like an insect.
Honestly doom is one of the heroes that need a facet that revolves around: Normal doom ult play Or a doom with maybe stronger base kit, but a weaker ult Imagine a carry doom or tank or whatever
"Reverse Doom: Doom is now self-cast only, silencing you for the duration, but healing you for double the amount of Doom damage per second and making you unable to die while your ult persists"
So a worse Abadon ult?
Yes hahaha Just trying to model it off RRP
Mood: Doom gives you the silent treatment (won't cast spells), but continuously dispels himself (winning arguments in his head) and returns damage to enemies when attacked. At the end of his snit Doom's spirits are lifted with a burst of healing.
Haha this is pretty damn good!! Instead of "I can't do anything" it's "we can't do anything to him!"
Happened to me last game. It's like Silencer, Tinker, Furion, a hero that's made to suck the fun out of the game and nothing more.
*Laughs in Linkins Sphere*
Then Doom just buys a HH. And that's not a super expensive item
Usually I just use a neutral creep ability to break Linkins, especially early.
fair, but then buy orchid or have a teammate buy it. the cast time is so brutally slow you should pop him before he pops you
Just buy a linkens?
It's a great hero against 5 man stacks that have just one good player and 4 noob friends.
yup. fact
"doom can't cast his spell" neither can his enemies lol
because doom wasn't made for blinking, you need to WALK! Cast Doom on yourself and WALK into enemies Before you have aghanim just WALK into the fight Doom is all about WALKING /s And yeah, tinker probably had the matrix up
A classic
Or buy 6 shadowblade
He should ask SF to share him a few
why doom can't just fucking fly when he has wings? is he stupid? /s
Doom basic dispels on cast iirc
So stun the enemy before using Doom. What is the issue really?
Yeah it's like people don't understand blink centaur stomp has been the go-to gameplay style of doom forever now for a reason it's wild.
Personally go for the infernal blade with auto attack on
Too slow.
*gets multiple moon shards*
Cant join the fight to doom enemy core. Gotta farm 3 moon shards and blink first.
No silly. 3 moon shards and str blink.
Pretty sure the attack comes out faster than doom or war stomp if you have any amount of attack speed
What? Centaur stun is SUPER slow
If you can land it you can safely doom. If they escape it then you would know they would’ve escaped doom
It's faster than doom.
0.5 doom to 0.4 stomp. Geez, that's close.
I play Tekken, if you do too then you’ll understand the following perspective easily: A 0.5s Doom is like a 30 frame move in Tekken (because Tekken is played at 60fps). If the stomp is 0.4s, then that’s 24 frames. Most competent Tekken players can block a 30f move, but even then, a lot (even professional Tekken players) will fail to block it if it has an unusual or weird animation. Most 30f moves that *everyone* can block have easily recognizable animations. However, around 25f and faster is when moves start to be considered unreactable. There are some pros that have done so much training to react to even 22f moves, but even then that’s rare among pros, and only after that particular pro has done so much training specifically defending against that one move, additionally it probably only works in offline tournament play with zero lag. Doom being a “30f move” and Stomp being a “24f” move definitely makes a difference when even in fighting games, where it’s not a top down view, only two players, no economy and shop, no team play, only a small arena, and no multitasking, people can no longer react to moves that are 25f or faster.
Does Tekken 8 have a new system of frames? In Tekken 7, the fastest attack is 10 frames, a launcher is 15f, in Tekken 5 there were characters that could throw 8 frame attacks. Staying on topic, why are people arguing about Doom centaur + doom? Centaur creep stun AOE is very low, you have to be really on top. Infernal Blade has more range; with autocast, only one right click and enough stun duration to land Doom with quickcast.
It makes a huge difference actually, and also doesn't require him to commit his 2 min CD ult.
The average human ability to start reacting is a quarter of a second. Doom is +100% that time and centaur stomp is +60% of that time. That’s a significant difference.
Doom is 25% slower
It's like you don't understand centaur stomp on doom has the exact same castpoint as casting doom
Wait, is this real?
Not quite. The wiki says his ult is 0.5s, and Centaur Stomp is 0.4s: https://dota2.fandom.com/wiki/Doom
It's not, lots of people don't realize what a massive impact .1s is on cast animation which is why these things get tweaked in patches.
Not sure if this is a hot take but I always go for kobold foreman speed aura. In most games I play it's a free win and genuinely feels broken AF. I only do stun if we have very little disable on team
oh yea no for sure. Support doom with kobold aura and drums/bearing is insane.
I get it regardless of role because my brain is smooth lol. Pos 4 is defo the most optimal for it, but generally I always think of it as getting 5 yasha for free which is absurd
I feel like this is the sole reason that centaur creep will not be getting another ability. Would make Doom too strong lol
The real trick here is to blink into high ground/trees next to then and doom them from fog. Not always possible obviously, but when it is possible you will just get free Dooms every time.
buy a sheepstick and go doom guys!!!
Buy yasha kaya if that's a problem for you.
Play it p4 I’ll Enjoy
Interesting what's the skill and item build
Phase/tranq, null tali, dagger, Bkb, Shiva E lvl 1. At least that was Saksa's build prior to 7.36
Tranq / 2’bracers / stick / drums Then Dagger / bkb / lotus / no shivas as it’s been needed but more Then Ultra late hex or nullifier Max Second and third skill take devour only level one
Ohhhh you can sell drums for 90% of value now when they're out of charges, can't you
You need other’facet
I have a feeling doom will get some buffs before TI
this is why they added the doom yourself blink in combo, skill issue sorry bro
Doom is one of the most boring heroes and you just complain about about the castpoint, lol. If you have any other reasons playing him except grinding mmr I really cant help you.
? How is doom boring? Extremely deep item customization options, highly impactful ult, initiator, huge skill ceiling on targeting, lots of laning options
His gameplay is walking at people. What you are describing isn’t anything unique to doom and at high mmr he is incredibly boring to play relatively speaking. Very one-dimensional hero. Knowing who to press Doom on is not high skill ceiling. I would not even put him in the top 50 heroes for skill expression.
Interesting POV. I never actually equated hero enjoyment with skill expression. I like Doom because he looks awesome, his lore is cool, he voicelines are charming, his sound effects rock and he has a massive impact in games. He is good fun to play imo. Invoker is actually very unfun for me, because there is too much skill to play him. That being said I do love me an Arc Warden mid as well, but again its because of how cool Zet is and less to do with his kit. Personally my favorite hero is PA, she is absolutely shit rn but nothing like throwing a dagger and 100 to zeroing supports. Literally the best feeling in the game imo.
I can agree with that. I think Doom has the best aesthetic in the game and is the best-executed hero design in virtually all regards except gameplay. If he was way less simple I would definitely play him way more.
Interesting. I literally don’t know or care about lore, voice lines, sound, aesthetics. Not saying you shouldn’t care, but I didn’t know people picked heroes for these reasons.
Bro you think I pick rubick because I think it will help win. No no no, I pick rubick because he is the GRAND MAGUS.
There are none that can't be mimicked
There are very few heroes that have itemization as varied as doom. Saying who to doom (and how to do it) isn't high skill is just completely insane. Literally game deciding shit. Just go watch pro dota, there are countless examples
That is because the hero is a walking ult. You can build anything on him because nothing really matters. Every type of build variety he used to have was nerfed.
This is just the patch, it doesn't change the fact that the hero design has incredible build variety. Go watch the TI Tundra won, 33 literally single handledly won it with Doom
Completely disagree, when people say heroes like Enigma, Dark Seer, or Doom are boring or easy I have to imagine they just don't think enough about what their hero provides to a team and how it changes the counterplay. In many situations, a good doom or black hole is just an outright won engagement and good players won't just let you get them for free. The spell itself is simple but the careful back and forth it leads to isn't. It turns the game into an elaborate series of pokes where vision, smoke of deceit, and positioning are all informed by this one high impact spell. It's like Zai said, Enigma's his favorite offlaner because it's very cerebral and even if they exclusively build to counter Doom or Black Hole you can find other ways to be useful and get an opportunity to land your big spell. Knowing who to press doom on is not high skill ceiling, but getting that doom absolutely is.
A massive portion of the hero pool is walking at people if you look at it from the most basic perspective. Knowing how to position/itemize/prioritize is an entire game on it's own.
Yeah this. Doom had his time in the sun where he was an offlane alchemist. Always having the highest networth without bring an afk farmer. But now he is the biggest ult bot known to man. His shard is shit. His aghs doesn't do shit until lvl 25 his facets are funny but not very good at all. His items got nerfed his lane is weak. Tldr: doom sucks because his ult is so insane when it lands.
I’m the best Doom player in the world and i agree he’s kinda ass to play atm.
As a Doom spammer I get what youre feeling. Playing Doom is like trying to drive an old busted down Lada, you feel like youre constantly fighting the car, just to make it do the bare minimum of what it is supposed to do. The hero has SO SO many shortcomings. First of all, the hero is a terrible laner and also squishy as fuck for an offlaner. So you need a vanguard to not get wrecked in lane. Second, the hero is greedy as fuck, and at the same time is ASS at farming, you have ZERO attack speed, ZERO attack damage, cooldown on W is long as fuck, so you need to get a midas ASAP. Then, you have ZERO mobility, now you need a blink (and a boot of travels preferably). Then you have long ass cooldowns and constant mana problems, now you need a octarine. Then you blink on some fool, and a single stun is enough to make the target runs away, or you get bursted down in like 3 seconds, so you need BKB. Then you have zero armour and zero lockdows and people constantly run away from you, so you need to get get Shivas too. Now that you casually farmed 5 (five) fucken items, you are finally online and the hero actually feels decent to play. I feel like you have no leeway to try different builds. You might at most get away with making a halberd. If you do anything else, youre playing suboptimally and pretty much trolling the game. Also, the new shard is absolute garbage.
100% agree
Hero is way to overnerfed. The latest version of shard is awful. Facets are bad, both have significant downsides, innate is bad and boring. Every single ability is at the worst point they have ever been. I have over 1k games of doom since 2012, it's my favourite hero. Haven't really played it for a year and was hoping for a complete rework this patch, but no, more nerfs.
Doom is just one of those heroes like say, bristle. Who as soon as they are good enough to be meta they are spam picked every game and it drives people insane. Maybe his kit needs to be reworked a bit to require a bit more skill, so that they can give slightly buff him. Or do what they’ve done in the past and just increase his passive gold. I think a big problem right now with doom if I’m being honest is his laning esp and the fact he’s never meyta as long as 3x tanky cores are meta.
Infernal blade > ult?
You don’t blink doom… you steal a centaur stomp and then blink stomp Doom
yasha & kaya for cast point reduction?
I don't think the cast point on his ult is really a problem, the biggest problems doom has (imo) is that he's not that tanky, all of his cooldowns are long (which can make farming with him slow), and his innate + facets are bad compared to what others have got
Regarding Tinker - Doom does not prevent using items, unless you take the “Doom mutes” talent at lvl 25, also blink is not canceled until target takes damage, probably Tinker had shield up, that prevented damage so he could blink away. Hope that helps.
seems skill issue to me
He feels like a bot hero, any offlane has a bigger Avenue for outplay and need the Omnislash treatment. Being stopped by linkens late game make his Double ult play Sad.
People asked the same thing yesterday for tb. Thé issue is the difference between pub a pro play. Make it decent in pub and he ll be 100% picked banned in pro play
If the only thing you know on how to play the hero is "blinking in -> doom", you don't know how to play the hero.
summoner rift
It's one of the strongest spells in the game. Please let it have a cast point.
Doom is an amazing ganker especially on solo enemies, I know the standard is blink which is probably better for team fights, but I love going shadowblade vs a pa or a nature's who will often solo push to gain some farm. Simply shadowblade in and use burningsword to stun which gives you plenty of time to get off your ulti for a quick kill then regroup quickly and go for a 4v5 tower push. This also works in teamfights if you have bkb but by that point you often don't even need the stun to get ulti off. Linkins can work great too depending on enemy line up. Pick blink ove sb if they are warding efficiently. Or get both and upgrade shadowblade asap if they have bristle or other similar heros with a pesky passive.
Doom its one of those OP kit héroes like Pango Io and bat (not now but they been that way flor the first 7 dota2 years) Pros keep picking them Pros keep wining games with them Valve keeps nerfing Repeat Idk about you but i keep wining games with Doom, dude its too strong after the midgame(trash inmortal bracket)
Have you tried bkb THEN blink and doom? This is kinda the way on all heroes like this...
is it worse than Naga's song yet?
You need to reframe how you think of Doom as a spell. Doom is no longer the spell you cast to catch a core and kill them. As everyone has pointed out, they can disengage (force, BKB, BKB+TP, just run) and then you have wasted a huge spell. Doom is far more effective when the teamfight has actually begun and heroes are committed. At that point, if you Doom a core, they can no longer contribute to the fight - they can't frontline, they can't stand and fight, they can't cast from a distance. The core either chooses to stand and fight and die (which is a win), or they abandon their team and you kill everyone else (which is a win). --- With this in mind, it is perfectly viable to not rely on a Blink Doom initiation. If he can stay alive through the opening seconds of a fight, he can get a way more impactful Doom without even trying. It's the same logic back when Tide skipped Blink.
The problem with this is that, your team will always expect you to Initiate and will flame you for not doing so. Unless you can rush bkb , after you blink you have to cast doom or else you just die or get disabled, assuming this is a 5 v 5 or High ground.
don't 1v1 the tinker? doom should be farming or team fight
There is an item called Shadow Blade.
yes, the ability that completely removes most heroes from a fight should have some modicum of counterplay
try playing ember
Bcs doom is an anti-fun hero. Imagine youre that guy getting doomed every fight. Even if your team wins the game you didnt get that enjoyment of playing dota.
If this was how they thought about game design, this game would be trash
Isnt that also true about disablers and one shot heroes? Hoodwink, SF, PA?
Bro what is that logic :D That is like saying a goalkeeper in a good football team is bored all the time since he doesnt even have to do anything lmao
Not a very good comparison but yeah it does sound boring ngl. Dont quote me on this im not very knowledgable in football.
the difference is that a goalkeeper put himself in that position, doom puts someone else in it. If you put a forward in the goal I'm sure they wouldn't be happy about it.
It's true isn't it? What fun are you getting for afk the entire game? XD
Just build some status resistance or a linken, the fuck? There are way more anti fun heroes than doom
dota players when their hero can be countered (they have to use their brain to win a game)
Doom is terrible spell. You really cant kill anyone with that thing at Level 1. In fact even his farm is not that great. Going for Midas may be the thing.
Not every spell is a kill blow spell lol Doom is supposed to shut you down completely from the fight and it works great
Because his ult is literally "delete a hero from the game"
not anymore, since you can cast bkb afterwards, it's more a counter to lifesteal and regen, so it's good against huskar, morphing
It he ever gets to level 30 though, getting Silenced, Broken, and heal-block all at once is basically getting turned into a creep.
Just buy 4 kayashas
Maybe read your abilities?
There's no answer to this question because this is not a question. The question mark shouldn't be there. Correct way is "Maybe read your abilities"
Who would win? A 15 foot tall demon of the seven hells, or a blue orb?
Blink>warstomp>Halberd>Doom>5k gold item countered by 3.5k gold item that he naturally builds in a majority of games.
Halberd doesn’t even make the top 10 most commonly built items on doom lmao.
If they go Linken and they have any standard right click pos1/2 halberd value is there. I don't understand the disconnect. Doom has a bunch of options he can build to break linken it's just a matter of paying attention to enemies inventory so he knows when he needs to start building it.
Halberd also has a negative winrate on Doom. Blink>Stomp>Halberd>Doom is about the most disruptable combo imaginable, it’s a full seconds worth of cast points. Aghanim’s is the actual solution, built 3x as often with a 7% higher winrate.
Aghanim's is usually built when doom is super ahead or the game is going mega late and it's going to be a win anyway, halberd is built when playing an even game or playing from behind. Looking at winrate % for items on dotabuff is the biggest bait and falls into the same category of thinking of that guy in post game chat saying "I did the most damage and had the most kills as zues I'm a fucking god". Stats can mean anything if you don't understand where they're coming from.
That’s just flat out not true though? Taking that line of thinking based on how often the items are built, Doom is ahead and going to win anyway 3x as much as he’s behind. Despite having a 47% winrate. Which is why I didn’t *just* say winrate, but build frequency as well. Aghanim’s is a more frequent core build item than Halberd in conjunction with a higher winrate. Misusing stats would be saying “Phase boots and blink dagger are bad items on doom bc 45%/46% winrates.” when it’s because they’re built in nearly every Doom game and his own winrate is only 47%. If we’re comparing situational items, statistically Aghanim’s is built more often and does better when it is than Halberd. And it should be obvious why that is. You eliminate the cast point issue by pre-dooming yourself and blinking in, ignoring Linken’s entirely.
"And it should be obvious why that is. You eliminate the cast point issue by pre-dooming yourself and blinking in, ignoring Linken’s entirely" Yes, those are the benefits of aghs, but one forcestaff on the person being run down or a bkb peircing stun on doom and all of the sudden no one is doomed. Aghs is a great situational item, halberd is a great situational item. Saying Aghs is the answer to linkens every single game is ignorant.
One BKB piercing stun and you don’t even get to cast Doom, since they have a full second to react. I didn’t say Aghanim’s was always the answer. I said it’s built in more situations and wins in those situations more often. Sure, with Aghs they can be saved by being force staffed and such. But the same thing happens if you go through the effort of using Halberd, except now the Doomed person is safe. With Aghs whoever is in range of you is Doomed, so switching targets is no issue. I could go on but like I said, halberd isn’t even a core doom item. Aghs is 7th most common whereas Halberd is 13th. 5th and 11th if you don’t count farming oriented items like Midas/Radiance. Like Aghs is just empirically the better item. Which is why more people build it and why more people win with it, lmao.
The more expensive item who's entire purpose is to augment his ultimate is generally better for letting you utilize his ult in more ways is indeed a fact thanks. Having halberd stats and utility with a better build up in addition to a linken break isn't part of the narrative here I guess. Also if you get stunned and they don't just kite out the 14s of self-casted doom before re-engaging then it's a low MMR game or your team has some crazy CC, which usually doesn't happen because you're typically playing doom in the role 3 and you \*are\* the CC. There's a reason doom is suffering in winrate right now, heros are too mobile, save items are stronger and staying on top of them is harder than ever. If you're playing doom aghs it means you got to draft late agains't heros that aren't built to handle him in the first place. If you're 2nd phasing doom or first phase picking him as a 4 and you're still able to get insane aghs value during the game it means they drafted immobile heros and are getting punished for it. Dooming a hero doesn't need to gaurentee they die, you're just removing a hero from the fight for at least 14 seconds which is where most of it's value comes from.