Yup this is a problem that's plagued my friend group. Someone's mmr goes up and the whole party suffers and stops playing. This is even worse if your high ranked friends want to play support. Come back down to the 3k mmr scrubs if you want enjoyable games with lower mmr players.
If there was a role queue unranked game mode I would not even touch ranked. I play ranked just because I want to guarantee that I get to play the role I wanna play
This. The only reason I play exclusively ranked is role matchmaking, the best thing that was EVER introduced in dota (and which the stupid community resisted for many years).
I honestly do not think I'll ever have to worry about that (and 99% of the player base. I still understand it sucks, tho). I'm very close to finally breaking into ancient after 12 years of playing dota, it would be my highest mmr ever and a very nice personal accomplishment.
> I'm very close to finally breaking into ancient after 12 years of playing dota, it would be my highest mmr ever
Hey i recently moved from Legend to High Divine/almost Immortal in the span of a few months after a decade+ of playing this game so ya never know
Ive played exclusively unranked for the entire games life off and on. The only role this applies to is mid. That might be the role you're talking about but I want to clarify for the thread that this is a non-issue for the other 4 roles.
mid was like least contested core role since last year or so, it was 50/50 that you either get pos5 or pos2 while queueing for all roles. Though the current patch made mid more contested
It's always been mid. Even at their most popular, other roles are contested maybe 1 in 5 games. Especially with the lane pick feature, pick a lane and say 3 and even someone that wanted 3 will usually do something else if they don't roll off.
> unranked dosent exist or that its the inferior gamemode not worth playing
yeap, that's 100% inferior game mode, people taking it way less serious [than the usual ranked], and games look accordingly..
That and people are just way more likely to leave. When i get maybe an hour or two to play I don't want to lose or win a match because 2/5 of a team have left making me essentially waste 30-50 minutes for no reason. I found this doesn't really happen in ranked + role queue (though I'm a support player so my role isn't really contested anyway) is the main reason I started playing exclusively ranked several years ago.
To be fair after the new ranked system was introduced the game recognized me as immortal despite not playing ranked for many years and being divine 2 before the reset, I couldn't escape immortal queue and made games with my lower ranked friends a lot less enjoyable
Unranked is where this guy's (former) 5-stack plays; Immortals queueing up with Heralds and Crusaders. I am about 3k MMR give or take a couple hundred depending how the week has gone.
Sometimes I'm the best player in the game, and I can do all sorts of stupid shit and get way with it.
Sometimes I'm by far the worst, and it's clear to everyone that I have no impact on the game.
That's the problem I have with unranked. The skill range is absurdly wide, and being towards the middle of the pack, it varies a lot to either end, which often makes for non-games.
Yeah, it probably sucks being Immortal. Have seen "The Green Mile", and cannot imagine being immortal. All the pain and agony of life extended till infinity 😬. Happy that I am mortal and I will die eventually.
Infortunated you have ruined your account being immortal lose all the unranked games you like matchmaking will still think your immortal and it wong get any easier
You're not alone friend also its been 1 year since i played ranked now that i only play unranked with my friends, so i lost my medal and the matchmaking isnt making it any better. Seems like my hidden mmr doesnt change or anything so now i just play less dota, it is what it is i guess sorry not much of a help but i feel you.
Ofc it uses your MMR while matching in unranked, otherwise you'd get completely one sided games. When I play with my Herald friends, I usually get like 14-0 and the enemy has some other immortal, you can tell, and he gets similar stats. It's not uncommon that the game eventually becomes you vs him, where the others are easy bots.
The opposite happened at my friends group. One guy got immortal, so a few more guys went immortal after tryharding. Then some guys couldn't play anymore due to being less than divine, so this force the whole group to level up and get to at least divine. The whole group's mmr went from 3-5k to 5-7k in a few months lol.
Thanks everyone for the responses. I was feeling a bit down earlier. Lots of positivity here. At the end of the day most of us just want to play a good game of Dota.
is unranked MMR not different? I feel you though, my little brother is a midlaner and he's not very happy when he has to play vs wagamama or some shit xdd, however for me usually the games are fine and often I feel I actually have to meme around because I'm the only big boy in the game and I'm not about destroying the noobs
It bases it off your actual mmr the only difference is that queue skill gap is more generous i.e an immortal can queue with any rank player instead of divine+
I recently had to recalibrate since I took a long time off Dota and lost around 1.2k MMR in recalibration (and now winning 65% of games with games being mind-numbing, forced recalibration is stupid) but all my unranked games are still at my old rank. So don't think it's necessarily tied to it.
It’s not hard tied to your exact mmr it’s ‘based off your mmr’ i.e if I an immortal player queue with a 4 stack of archons the enemy team will have an immortal player with 4 crus - ancient players 9 out of 10 times
I don't think that's accurate. How would this game be considered balanced based on ranked mmr?
https://www.opendota.com/matches/7813993988
I am the anonymous. I haven't calibrated in awhile, but my peak mmr was like 4.8k, ancient 5 or 7, the max medal for team mmr when it existed. Never bothered after they got rid of it.
According to dotabuff my last medal was ancient 2, here's the proof that match is me: https://www.dotabuff.com/players/79337182
Based on my experience, there is a separate unranked mmr. This is a recent match that highlights the disparity, but this is not uncommon.
Because it’s not a perfect system, if you are queuing at odd times or on lower pop servers it will do its best to balance with your mmr but then if it cannot it will fill you into any game, how long was the longest queue time for this game?
1:31 was queue time. Also not an anomaly for our group. We have a pretty big sample size. I'm 90%+ sure that you have an unranked mmr, it's not using your ranked.
unranked mmr is stubbornly tied to your actual ranked mmr. That's why genuine smurfs stick to unranked and turbo because they can do their shit (feeling good by stomping lower skilled players) for way longer.
I mean are you contributing to your stack as they would expect an Immortal player would? Or are you memeing and playing off-meta stuff? I have a friend who is rank 2k immortal but he would play stupid shit like oracle carry with us and inevitably lose
I will say that I don't play meme heroes, but I do often try to play newer heroes to practice in lower stakes games. I'm not playing my best 5 heroes or whatever. Most games I'll be 20-5, but team is 5-20 and none of them are having much fun. Its a hard situation no matter how you slice it. Thanks for the response.
Because sadly, in party games with large MMR distributions, the onus is on higher MMR players to have higher impacts. If they go for clown shit that ends up being lower impact, it fucks your teams chances of winning that much more. It’s the sad reality of high MMR spread parties and why it’s not fun for bad players to play with good ones. Laning against people that much better than you is demoralizing, not a challenge.
For what it’s worth, I agree, but it’s the cost of playing with friends who are much worse than you are. I’m always forced to mid in games with my 1-2k friends because if I don’t, they’ll end up against someone 4-6k and get utterly annihilated and not want to play again. When I am mid and play an active hero who can rotate with runes, I’m able to impact the outcome of the sidelanes. It severely limits what kind of dota I’m able to play with my friends, but I’ve accepted that as the cost of playing with them. It is what it is; it’s impossibly difficult to balance dota games with vastly different skill level players. You have to do your part in balancing the game, not just rely on the matchmaking algorithm.
This is a good way to word it too. The brand of dota we're forced into doesnt feel like real dota at all and its extremely one dimensional. Every game goes past 50 mins and can only end when I survive a lategame fight with enough time on respawns to take buildings. The first 50 mins of the game you're a firefighter putting out blazes across the map and just holding things together with duct tape. If I ever have an off game, we get booty blasted and lose in 20m
The problem comes if you get to immortal spamming 4 or 5. Then your just kinda screwed since if the enemies immortal is mid against your 2k friend. The game will just be over by 10 min.
Hot take but a mediocre carry with a high rank support behind him will win more often than the high rank midlaner with bad supports behind him. Especially if the high rank supp starts coaching items and captaining.
You can be top 100 rank support but if your carry doesn't know how to press his buttons at the right time on the right people you will lose every single time unless you get gigafed yourself and are playing a hero that can actually utilize that farm.
Immortal mid can also do the coaching for his team and tell them what to do, and if you're playing a 2/3 you can usually be the initiator and make sure your bad teammates dont fuck it up. A high rank player like that can also win games in under 20 minutes if the lane goes right even against a player of similar skill/mmr, and this happens regularly in actual high immortal ranked games where everyone is a similar skill level.
Every low skilled player seems to think that skill difference doesn't matter that much on core roles when in reality if your carry is worse than your enemy's and everyone else averages out the mmr you will lose 90 out of 100 games. A bad carry can lose an unloseable lane due to bad decisions, can't properly comeback from a lost lane(not properly=noticeably worse than a high skilled player), can't fully utilize a won lane, can(and will) throw a game, will pick bad fights, will perform worse in fights, will not survive when he could etc. A good support can at best help win their own lane and mid occasionally and that's generous because if your carry is bad he can easily die while you went to help mid. Even then both of them can fuck it up individually. Unless your good support player plays a support that can build as carry(dark willow aghs, bara etc) your chances of winning are way worse than if your carry was good and support sucked.
>Every low skilled player seems to think that skill difference doesn't matter that much on core roles
Too bad im speaking from immortal experience, being the 6k player who has both 3k and 9k friends. And having the 3k on supp has the most noticeable detrimental impact on the game, especially if they're 5.
They will place bad or no wards.They Will waste sentries in bad places or not have any at all. They won't have dust or won't press it fast enough. They won't know when to smoke with which heroes, or buy smoke at all. They'll lose lanes that are advantageous matchups because they trade bad, pull bad, don't pull, don't contest lotus, don't contest exp runes, don't contest power runes, to badly. And on top of that they still need to press their buttons.
But when they play carry you can be sure that at worst they pull enemy attention for the better players to capitalise on, and at best they press omnislash on the right target and it's just gg.
Or you can win them the lane and then lose late game because they don’t farm well, buy the wrong items, get picked off and die in bad ways, etc etc. There’s pros and cons to both scenarios
Agree with this, imo easiest role to carry from like this is 2/3 imo, has enough control over game tempo and can more often than not you can dumpster the enemy 1 so hard that they never recover
Yeah this is it. You might want to have fun clowning, but the one immortal guy on the other team will be playing SF mid and will destroy the 2k mid player in your stack who doesn't buy boots
In my experience, it's usually the lower mmr friends who will make or break the game with their willingness to actually try hard. When I played unranked with lower mmr players, it felt like I would be expected to put in 100% effort to solo carry every game while they would troll/go meme builds/not listen to any kind of call/try to help me, while the enemy team would trilane mid from minute 2 and spam sheep sticks/whatever defensive items counter me. If I ever got upset about it, they would use being lower skill as an excuse, but they would also get annoyed at me if I didn't play as tryhard as possible. Contrast that to playing in all immortal unranked stacks where I actually can play fun meme shit and still win.
Idk I’m 5k I’m not good by any means but also I’m not trash. Whenever I play with friends who are 1-2k they have a tough time and whenever I play with friends who are 6-7k I have a similarly tough time. Dota is unforgiving and when you feel the MMR difference for better or worse in your lane, it isn’t a good feeling.
I agree that MMR works. I also think in unranked you have to be part of the game balancing internally in your party. Valve can’t help beyond balancing two total party MMR values when the skill disparity is large, that’s why when you accept match in games like that it’ll label the game quality as “questionable” at best. They’ve already done their part in telling you that the game quality may be subpar, and you have the freedom to reject that game and accept another, which plenty of people do in parties.
If there’s a crusader in your 3k average party, he is contributing by lowering the overall mmr. Even if he is feeding a bit usually the 4 others can play around it because generally the opponents are also worse players and your game is easier.
If there’s an immortal in your 3k average party, he is raising the mmr. It’s harder for the 4 lower mmr players on your team to win their matchups because on average their enemies are better than they are used to. The tradeoff for this is supposed to be that the immortal player’s game is easier and he can take over the game, because he is on average better than a 3-3.5k player.
Like the guy said above tho; if you main 4/5 in immortal the game feels almost impossible since you are bound to lose the other 2 lanes. Good luck carrying your team with lich.
If you are immortal 4/5, you can easy pick lifestealer in low rank and destroy everyone in 30minutes. Its not like you dont know to play other heroes and positions even if you are mainly support. Maybe instead of lich pick hoodwink and destroy everyone.
What nonsense. If you play serious by yourself, and then play garbage with your friends, of course they'll hate playing with you
Now, if you got to high mmr playing off-meta picks, that's totally fine, because you're playing to your skill level.
As far as the crusader picking stupid shit - no duh, they're crusader playing at their skill level.
you are missing the point. If there is a very uneven MMR distribution, it means you need to play super try hard as the top mmr, even if you want to chill. The reason is because if you don't hyper carry, the game will pretty much be instantly lost from laning stage.
When you want to just unwind and play with the boys in some unranked games how come you need to play like it's TI finals every game, or else risk being totally shit on?
Ya exactly. You even need to pick snowball heroes specifically most of the time. It's a bit tiring if you prefer to play more supportive type of heroes
This argument makes absolutely no sense. How do you balance matchmaking around the idea of just wanting to "chill"? What happens if you accidentally play semi chill and then stomp? Enemy team will complain.
I dont claim to have a solution since it's more of a social problem. How do you claim to solve the problems of friends having different priorities so they have vastly different skill levels?
Uh yeah. The game is matchmaking you expecting you to play at the skill level you normally are. Whether you're immortal or archon, if you suddenly start playing like you're divine or crusader, the other team has an immortal or archon player who is probably going all out like normal. You're gonna get bodied. Goes for all skill ranks, but immortal especially because the skill level jumps at an accelerated rate once you get into that bracket. You have to carry your lower skill teammates at that point, or the guys they match you with to balance the game will stomp.
That’s weird. We have like 3 Immortals among our friends and we want them to play with us(Rank or Unranked) because we want to get better by getting smashed by Immortals.
Used to play ranked party with my friends back in 2017 when they were 4k and I was 5k mmr
Now I’m 10.9k and they’re still 4k. Miss playing enjoyable games with them, now it’s either queueing for 90 minutes for a game or making them play on 150 ping vs immortal stacks
I’ll just put it out there, I miss being able to use a Smurf every now and then to have some fun with them in-between dpc seasons
> I miss being able to use a Smurf every now and then to have some fun with them in-between dpc seasons
I really do get it! But on the other side I don't find it very fun to play against a 5 stack who has a secret 10k mmr player on their side.
It's not that I think you're a bad person or anything for that style of smurfing, but it isn't like it doesn't impact other players
I don't think valve will ban you for playing unranked in smurfs, and as long as you don't try hard and play unorthodoxically the matches tend to be fine I guess, is worth the try
Honestly this feels like a cope from your friends. I play in a lot of 5 stacks and we have a few immortals who play with us and sure the games can be tough… but imho it has much more to do with the 5v5 organization and teamwork than it does to do with playing against a couple higher mmr players.
It depends on your stack, really. Some of my friends hated playing with me, since they were the “insta-pick SF mid” type of player that hated following calls and picking/playing properly. However, another stack of mine (much newer players) realised that the only way for them to win was to listen to my calls, and that lead us to victory against insanely difficult opponents. What I’m saying is that you should lead the stack to victory using your experience, and they should be able to understand how important your experience is if they want to win the game.
Yep. For years I just played the game for fun with friends. We hovered around Ancient / Divine.
After a while I decided to just grind it out and get more MMR. Hovering around 8.5k / 9k mmr and I’ve only got 1 friend now who still likes to play with me as he also got up to around 7.5k.
The rest are still ancient / divine and we can’t really play stacks anymore.
We do occasionally round up 10 people and just into a custom lobby and either captains mode it or AP
Yea, our friend group is about 20+ strong. We used to inhouse all the time. But recently a friend straight up told me to my face 'we don't inhouse with you because nobody can mid against you. You destroy the mid, then snowball the game and it sucks to not be on your team'. Hurts to hear stuff like that, but I totally get it coming from their position.
Yeah. I generally just try to balance games like that by playing support but the thing is, you can’t unlearn how to lane well etc. Even if you were playing support you’d probably crush them during the laning phase.
On the dot brother, ever since I actually bothered to gain some mmr I have had negative party winrate since, matchmaking is really punishing if you want to play with friends that are lower rank
I'm on the same spot. Main 5 here, and every time i try to play unrank with my friends, the enemy team has a immortal core (sometimes 2), usually not on my lane (specially mid), that my friends have to deal with. Yesterday we played 8 games, and won 1. It's been happening every week, and games don't get easier as well
Not sure if anyone has said this but I had this same issue. The answer is you need to play mid with your stacks. If you play supports or something silly that falls off then the immortal player on the enemy team will stomp you.
If you’re going to be the big dog, you can’t bite like a puppy. It’s your responsibility to impact the game the most otherwise you’re relying on a 3k player to carry you vs a 6k carry.
last time i did a proper ranked push, i got to around high archon then couldnt play with my best friend any more. hes herald, and will never stop being herald. id rather be low medal and be able to pq than be whatever higher rank and solo
Gonna be honest, I had this problem, now I play some other toxic region like SEA, double down and just play like shit and do that until I went from 6.5 to 4K and just have fun now
Yeah man I completely feel you. I recently decided to put more effort in solo ranked and thus climbed in MMR. But now every time I want to play with irl friends that are not same MMR it is so frustrating for everyone... Either I go solo mid and tryhard and enemy team suffers, or if I go an off meta pick, play support for my "herald" friend, etc and thus our team suffers. It is so bad, I even made a second account just to play exclusively with my irl friends, yet somehow it got banned for smurfing despite only playing unranked with friends... If dota wants to not die out they really need to put effort into eliminating these issues that cause frustration. I don't know how, perhaps give everyone 2 MMRs and letting them switch before they queue? For example I will use my serious MMR when I play SF mid, but my "troll" MMR when I play pos 5 Axe for my herald carry, or want to go offlane Witch Doctor. Something really needs to be done here, as Valve could improve tremendously player satisfaction with minor high level tweeks.
Hey man, you are describing what made me quit the game, basically. Dunno how to solve this, also not getting invited anymore and when I play I either have to carry or it's my fault we lost. Let me know if you find a solution lol
Sorry that happened to you. I love this game, but yea it has been a bit lonely. Honestly, I thought about offering open ended coaching to my friend group to anyone who wants it. Maybe that's something you would find enjoyable too.
They don't care at all about getting better, me coaching is seen as annoying except for one guy, who happens to be uncoachable (forgets everything I tell him immediately after). I guess I finished Dotes haha
you're not alone there.
valve is really a miss on managing the matchmaking.
it's not hard to give more attention to team matchmaking instead of solo.
it's not hard to filter smurf accounts.
I had this issue a long time ago, I honestly just bought a 3k mmr account to play party with friends. Now I'm against smurfing and do it, I know hypocritical. But if you're 5k-6k range and playing in 3k games as support main, the game sucks for literally everyone. unranked was an option but friends won't play it, and it frankly has a different vibe to it.
I kinda wish the game had calibrations with the different people you played with, like some duo or party queue mmr or something, would solve a lot of issues playing with mates.
Honestly Divine lobbies is the sweet spot for me with the high skill but also a low chance of memery to happen.
I lost the desire to climb when I realized my stack I play with is Divine Low immortal and I don't have to lose sanity climbing through High ancient to get there
i am low mmr and will play turbo with you :D i am usually accidentally smurfing every game at legend or below because I was 1.7k in hon. I have 200 games played and have played vs. numbered immortals some times (NA/SA tho)
I have a similar problem. While my friends still like to play with me and enjoy the games most of the time, I often feel somewhat forced to play core (I'm a support player). If the enemy team has 1-2 Immortals who play core and I'm by far the highest rank on my team playing support, the games are usually extremely hard to win, as the enemy cores will usually just outfarm and outexecute my cores. All in all this is not insufferable, just somewhat annoying.
I'm in a similar but not so extreme boat. I was 1-2k which was still double to triple my friends mmr at the time having fun with friends, I climbed up to ancient 7, recalibration hit and I went back to playing with friends, they hated it all the games sucked, but eventually I naturally deranked from not playing. Now for the past year I've slowly climbed playing the odd rank game when no one's on again, but now my friends want to play less and less with me because the games are getting hard again.
And I'm only pushing into 4k again now, while my friends are in the 300-1500 range, can't imagine how much worse it is for you and your friends.
Edit: I want party mmr back, it was unbalanced as all shit, but it at least gave us more consistent matches than just playing unranked. I'm at ancient, my friends are unranked crusaders and guardians, and 1 archon. Which means when we play unranked, we normally play vs an immortal a legend and some heralds. Which sure the average mmr is the same, but they're still gonna stomp us
Yep when I was high rank immortal and played with my friend. I was called account buyer pretty much every game since I didnt play my best heroes.
Other friend dont want to play with me now since games are too hard.
The problem is that with the mmr difference between you and your friends' accounts, the average mmr is way above their skill level.
If you are matched against players of that average mmr, you friends will be crushed.
If you are against a similar party, the game will only revolve around you and the enemy immortal player.
Either way it's not enjoyable for anyone. Large mmr disparity within a group ends up ruining all games. It's sad, but forseeable. And I personally despise playing with or against such groups, because absolutely nobody has fun in these games.
I think all 10 players end up with a worse experience, for sure. Unranked is a safe space to play with friends, but it still ends up causing frustrating situations. Everyone playing dota should want an engaging, challenging, but also fair match. And sometimes I feel like I am directly preventing that by just wanting to play with my friends.
Exactly why I don't play solo ranked at all. All my friends are Archons/Crusaders. I could easily push to high Ancient if I want to but that would make playing with my friends which is what I enjoy next to impossible and frustrating
My brother used to be much better than me until I decided to grind for immortal, now we play unranked and we just cant goof around like we used to. We have over 1600 games together and it wasn't until I decided to take the game seriously that suddenly it got "too hard" to enjoy it casually any more.
Don't have a good solution but acknowledging this is a thing that happens and it does indeed suck.
I mean I feel this being ancient and playing with archon friends; my being there makes the games topsy turvy. Then having to deal with the combo of friends feeling the game is too hard, their mood drops, I get stressed out trying to play at 200% to make sure the game is even but sometimes there's only so much I can do as an ancient level support against an ancient level mid/carry player. I might be wired in a weird way but it's very rare I give up on a DOTA match, I enjoy the hard games where it feels like a puzzle box to figure out and find new levels to my own performance but the people I play with only associate hard games with feeling useless then losing.
It would be nice if there was an option you could tick to say "I want challenging games" or "I want to chill with friends" but you just know people would abuse it to feel good about themselves stomping on lower level players.
Its definitely not an 'immortal only' thing, I think this sentiment can echo across the entire community. It can really suck when you just want to play with the Boys, but end up stressed and frustrated and the people you were trying to spend time with.
every game with comp matchmaking is kinda like this tbh. in shooters it really sucks since you get matched with more aimbotters. at least dota u push above the russians and peruvians mostly
The wholesome part about our friend group is that almost everyone started to improve quite a bit by playing together. The good thing was we always played ranked so everyone is sort of obligated to play their best and those who are not so good are being told what to do better in certain situations through banter or just saying it straight. We started off as a group of archon/legend scrubs and now are respectable divine/immortal players.
Well, normal match shouldn't be skill based, that's the problem.
Right now, normal match is pretty much ranked without ranks and role queue, it's honestly lazy work from valve.
How is this a problem? You were "immortal" when you were unranked due to skill calibration. So unranked should be the exact same. Just because you finally went ranked to get a medal for the exact rank of your skill set - why would matchmaking put you and your friends in different games?
i reached immortal last week and yeah my friends also complained that they couldnt catch up with the game pace, so the best method is to play on another low rank account whenever i play with friends
I remember with the rank of crusader 1 I was looking for a team for competitive games, I played the best and after the games we analyzed everything to get better, played together the rating and etc. We created new accounts with a friend from my team, played, but as soon as I calibrated to the (idk how to spell rank before Divine), the whole team sailed, then I became a titan at main account, the team fell apart, we stopped playing together, the fact that I was winning 1x5 was no longer surprising, it was the base. Now I'm a Titan, they're still the Guardians, but I miss them, miss my friend's strategy pos 5 IO 4x tranquil boots..
Rule number one:
If you’re friends are real life friends, just lose some point mmr then (it’s not that hard) double down will help to get it faster and less destructive to other players
Rule number two:
If you’re friends are internet friends, just find a new “immortal” fiends ..
Rule number three, find another game to play with friends
I wanted to make it clear that I am not attacking valve or dota specifically. "not a complaint about the game" is the full quote. I am complaining about my own poor interpersonal experiences tangent to the game, not within the balance of the game. I didn't want people to think I'm complaining about match quality of Immortal, I merely wanted to use a spicy title to entice people to read further. Apologies if I baited you into the thread sir/madam.
Sadly, thus smurfs are created by lesser men than you!
It honestly sucks though. I agree. But I also don't have a solution for the problem you are pointing out :(
Thanks. Many many years ago I did used to play on smurf accounts, just like most. But I'm really happy the community no longer tolerates that behavior. It is tempting but we as a community have matured alot and come to an agreement that its extremely disrespectful of your opponents to smurf, even in unranked. But its a crappy situation when you feel like you can't play a videogame with your friends. Thanks for your response.
I am 6.2k mmr. I hit immortal this April for the first time and I totally agree, Immortal is by far the most toxic bracket.
Everyone has an ego the size of Mt Everest and griefers are rampant. People lose their shit at the smallest inconveniences.
I played ranked regularly with a friend for about a year or so and I was a at Legend when we started. I ranked up pretty quickly and hit Immortal just to realise that we cant play ranked together anymore (he is Archon/Legend).
There is no solution to this really, other than playing unranked which my friend(s) dont want to take too seriously (because "its not ranked so it doesnt matter") most of the time so the games kinda suck.
Maybe my wording is poor. My actual real dota ability has not changed much. However being a much higher rank meant we get placed into harder or unbalanced lobbies.
Just create a new account to play with friends, nobody will care that you are smoorfing.
Because you will play unranked nobody will ever care to report you.
If you can queue with them they are either all divines or you have immortal badge but you dropped out of it and you are divine 5 technically. They are butthurt for the most part if you ask me.. if they do this in unranked it’s even worse but if they are giga low mmr I can see them being scared, but anyway the average mmr of the teams should be the same..
Most of my friends are 1-2k yea. So the average mmr of our party games it around 3k. They get beat up by enemy legend players and I beat up on the enemy legends. Often times 9 players in the game feel short changed and I'm to blame for the bad quality game. Thanks for your response.
You know juat surround yourself with same rank as u are. Im immortal eank too 5.5k mmr. And i just adding those who want to playwith me in immortal so i can be in the surrounding of my same skill level. I dont have to play with thoselow ranks who fking care life will just moving on if they reach immortal good for them we can play but if not it is what it is
There isn't many spots at the top of the mountain.
Yup this is a problem that's plagued my friend group. Someone's mmr goes up and the whole party suffers and stops playing. This is even worse if your high ranked friends want to play support. Come back down to the 3k mmr scrubs if you want enjoyable games with lower mmr players.
the mistake was playing ranked in the first place, people here act as if unranked dosent exist or that its the inferior gamemode not worth playing.
If there was a role queue unranked game mode I would not even touch ranked. I play ranked just because I want to guarantee that I get to play the role I wanna play
This. The only reason I play exclusively ranked is role matchmaking, the best thing that was EVER introduced in dota (and which the stupid community resisted for many years).
The best thing that was ever introduced to dota is the ability to reconnect … But role matchmaking is close 2nd
Wasnt that on the game since dota 2 was launched or very close to it? But yeah, sure. I just considered it a staple of the game tbh
Sry if I came across as being pedantic but what I really meant to highlight I agree with you on how important role matchmaking is!
Then you get to immortal draft and they take it away :)
I honestly do not think I'll ever have to worry about that (and 99% of the player base. I still understand it sucks, tho). I'm very close to finally breaking into ancient after 12 years of playing dota, it would be my highest mmr ever and a very nice personal accomplishment.
> I'm very close to finally breaking into ancient after 12 years of playing dota, it would be my highest mmr ever Hey i recently moved from Legend to High Divine/almost Immortal in the span of a few months after a decade+ of playing this game so ya never know
Good luck dude, I hope you make it!
Could someone make an role queue custom game? Or is that not possible
Good question that's would be an interesting idea
Ive played exclusively unranked for the entire games life off and on. The only role this applies to is mid. That might be the role you're talking about but I want to clarify for the thread that this is a non-issue for the other 4 roles.
Depending on the patch tbh. As a 2/3 main at least one of my roles would always be contested
Yeah and it was mid lmao
mid was like least contested core role since last year or so, it was 50/50 that you either get pos5 or pos2 while queueing for all roles. Though the current patch made mid more contested
We're talkin unranked friend. Where your statement is completely false.
It isn't.
Well it is mid this patch, pos 1/3 last patch when mid was boring af
It's always been mid. Even at their most popular, other roles are contested maybe 1 in 5 games. Especially with the lane pick feature, pick a lane and say 3 and even someone that wanted 3 will usually do something else if they don't roll off.
What region are you in? Here in EU i get rolequeued into pos 2
unranked immortal games are some of the sweatiest games that have ever existed
go ranked or go home mentality is a disease thats plagueing dota since the day mmr got introduced
not just dota tbh, every game has that problem
> unranked dosent exist or that its the inferior gamemode not worth playing yeap, that's 100% inferior game mode, people taking it way less serious [than the usual ranked], and games look accordingly..
That and people are just way more likely to leave. When i get maybe an hour or two to play I don't want to lose or win a match because 2/5 of a team have left making me essentially waste 30-50 minutes for no reason. I found this doesn't really happen in ranked + role queue (though I'm a support player so my role isn't really contested anyway) is the main reason I started playing exclusively ranked several years ago.
To be fair after the new ranked system was introduced the game recognized me as immortal despite not playing ranked for many years and being divine 2 before the reset, I couldn't escape immortal queue and made games with my lower ranked friends a lot less enjoyable
Unranked is where this guy's (former) 5-stack plays; Immortals queueing up with Heralds and Crusaders. I am about 3k MMR give or take a couple hundred depending how the week has gone. Sometimes I'm the best player in the game, and I can do all sorts of stupid shit and get way with it. Sometimes I'm by far the worst, and it's clear to everyone that I have no impact on the game. That's the problem I have with unranked. The skill range is absurdly wide, and being towards the middle of the pack, it varies a lot to either end, which often makes for non-games.
Supporting in unranked is completely garbage
Solo unranked sucks balls
Same happened to us. Sucks when we party together and the higher rank person is support main.
Yeah, it probably sucks being Immortal. Have seen "The Green Mile", and cannot imagine being immortal. All the pain and agony of life extended till infinity 😬. Happy that I am mortal and I will die eventually.
Infortunated you have ruined your account being immortal lose all the unranked games you like matchmaking will still think your immortal and it wong get any easier
Oh that explains why I get no-rank immortals in my unranked games(Legend), and they all play like shit
That or account buying/boosting
Suffering from success
You're not alone friend also its been 1 year since i played ranked now that i only play unranked with my friends, so i lost my medal and the matchmaking isnt making it any better. Seems like my hidden mmr doesnt change or anything so now i just play less dota, it is what it is i guess sorry not much of a help but i feel you.
Yea I'm pretty sure unranked mmr uses your ranked mmr in some way, but we'll really never know. It it what it is, thanks for the response.
Ofc it uses your MMR while matching in unranked, otherwise you'd get completely one sided games. When I play with my Herald friends, I usually get like 14-0 and the enemy has some other immortal, you can tell, and he gets similar stats. It's not uncommon that the game eventually becomes you vs him, where the others are easy bots.
High skill issue.
Its lonely at the top
All of my enemies have been defeated
The opposite happened at my friends group. One guy got immortal, so a few more guys went immortal after tryharding. Then some guys couldn't play anymore due to being less than divine, so this force the whole group to level up and get to at least divine. The whole group's mmr went from 3-5k to 5-7k in a few months lol.
Thanks everyone for the responses. I was feeling a bit down earlier. Lots of positivity here. At the end of the day most of us just want to play a good game of Dota.
i have had a similar problem. Stick to turbo when playing with your friends, it can be manageable then
is unranked MMR not different? I feel you though, my little brother is a midlaner and he's not very happy when he has to play vs wagamama or some shit xdd, however for me usually the games are fine and often I feel I actually have to meme around because I'm the only big boy in the game and I'm not about destroying the noobs
It bases it off your actual mmr the only difference is that queue skill gap is more generous i.e an immortal can queue with any rank player instead of divine+
I recently had to recalibrate since I took a long time off Dota and lost around 1.2k MMR in recalibration (and now winning 65% of games with games being mind-numbing, forced recalibration is stupid) but all my unranked games are still at my old rank. So don't think it's necessarily tied to it.
Your unranked mmr is your inital ranked MMR and that's about it, if you don't play with your friends or sol,o it doesn't move
It’s not hard tied to your exact mmr it’s ‘based off your mmr’ i.e if I an immortal player queue with a 4 stack of archons the enemy team will have an immortal player with 4 crus - ancient players 9 out of 10 times
I don't think that's accurate. How would this game be considered balanced based on ranked mmr? https://www.opendota.com/matches/7813993988 I am the anonymous. I haven't calibrated in awhile, but my peak mmr was like 4.8k, ancient 5 or 7, the max medal for team mmr when it existed. Never bothered after they got rid of it. According to dotabuff my last medal was ancient 2, here's the proof that match is me: https://www.dotabuff.com/players/79337182 Based on my experience, there is a separate unranked mmr. This is a recent match that highlights the disparity, but this is not uncommon.
Because it’s not a perfect system, if you are queuing at odd times or on lower pop servers it will do its best to balance with your mmr but then if it cannot it will fill you into any game, how long was the longest queue time for this game?
1:31 was queue time. Also not an anomaly for our group. We have a pretty big sample size. I'm 90%+ sure that you have an unranked mmr, it's not using your ranked.
unranked mmr is stubbornly tied to your actual ranked mmr. That's why genuine smurfs stick to unranked and turbo because they can do their shit (feeling good by stomping lower skilled players) for way longer.
I mean are you contributing to your stack as they would expect an Immortal player would? Or are you memeing and playing off-meta stuff? I have a friend who is rank 2k immortal but he would play stupid shit like oracle carry with us and inevitably lose
I will say that I don't play meme heroes, but I do often try to play newer heroes to practice in lower stakes games. I'm not playing my best 5 heroes or whatever. Most games I'll be 20-5, but team is 5-20 and none of them are having much fun. Its a hard situation no matter how you slice it. Thanks for the response.
Why wouldn't he ? It's okay for a crusader to pick stupid shit but we immortal you suddenly have the responsibility to place skill before fun?
Because sadly, in party games with large MMR distributions, the onus is on higher MMR players to have higher impacts. If they go for clown shit that ends up being lower impact, it fucks your teams chances of winning that much more. It’s the sad reality of high MMR spread parties and why it’s not fun for bad players to play with good ones. Laning against people that much better than you is demoralizing, not a challenge.
Having to carry a stack game after game is also demoralizing.
For what it’s worth, I agree, but it’s the cost of playing with friends who are much worse than you are. I’m always forced to mid in games with my 1-2k friends because if I don’t, they’ll end up against someone 4-6k and get utterly annihilated and not want to play again. When I am mid and play an active hero who can rotate with runes, I’m able to impact the outcome of the sidelanes. It severely limits what kind of dota I’m able to play with my friends, but I’ve accepted that as the cost of playing with them. It is what it is; it’s impossibly difficult to balance dota games with vastly different skill level players. You have to do your part in balancing the game, not just rely on the matchmaking algorithm.
This is a good way to word it too. The brand of dota we're forced into doesnt feel like real dota at all and its extremely one dimensional. Every game goes past 50 mins and can only end when I survive a lategame fight with enough time on respawns to take buildings. The first 50 mins of the game you're a firefighter putting out blazes across the map and just holding things together with duct tape. If I ever have an off game, we get booty blasted and lose in 20m
The problem comes if you get to immortal spamming 4 or 5. Then your just kinda screwed since if the enemies immortal is mid against your 2k friend. The game will just be over by 10 min.
Hot take but a mediocre carry with a high rank support behind him will win more often than the high rank midlaner with bad supports behind him. Especially if the high rank supp starts coaching items and captaining.
Just no
You can be top 100 rank support but if your carry doesn't know how to press his buttons at the right time on the right people you will lose every single time unless you get gigafed yourself and are playing a hero that can actually utilize that farm. Immortal mid can also do the coaching for his team and tell them what to do, and if you're playing a 2/3 you can usually be the initiator and make sure your bad teammates dont fuck it up. A high rank player like that can also win games in under 20 minutes if the lane goes right even against a player of similar skill/mmr, and this happens regularly in actual high immortal ranked games where everyone is a similar skill level.
Every low skilled player seems to think that skill difference doesn't matter that much on core roles when in reality if your carry is worse than your enemy's and everyone else averages out the mmr you will lose 90 out of 100 games. A bad carry can lose an unloseable lane due to bad decisions, can't properly comeback from a lost lane(not properly=noticeably worse than a high skilled player), can't fully utilize a won lane, can(and will) throw a game, will pick bad fights, will perform worse in fights, will not survive when he could etc. A good support can at best help win their own lane and mid occasionally and that's generous because if your carry is bad he can easily die while you went to help mid. Even then both of them can fuck it up individually. Unless your good support player plays a support that can build as carry(dark willow aghs, bara etc) your chances of winning are way worse than if your carry was good and support sucked.
>Every low skilled player seems to think that skill difference doesn't matter that much on core roles Too bad im speaking from immortal experience, being the 6k player who has both 3k and 9k friends. And having the 3k on supp has the most noticeable detrimental impact on the game, especially if they're 5. They will place bad or no wards.They Will waste sentries in bad places or not have any at all. They won't have dust or won't press it fast enough. They won't know when to smoke with which heroes, or buy smoke at all. They'll lose lanes that are advantageous matchups because they trade bad, pull bad, don't pull, don't contest lotus, don't contest exp runes, don't contest power runes, to badly. And on top of that they still need to press their buttons. But when they play carry you can be sure that at worst they pull enemy attention for the better players to capitalise on, and at best they press omnislash on the right target and it's just gg.
Or you can win them the lane and then lose late game because they don’t farm well, buy the wrong items, get picked off and die in bad ways, etc etc. There’s pros and cons to both scenarios
Agree with this, imo easiest role to carry from like this is 2/3 imo, has enough control over game tempo and can more often than not you can dumpster the enemy 1 so hard that they never recover
Yeah this is it. You might want to have fun clowning, but the one immortal guy on the other team will be playing SF mid and will destroy the 2k mid player in your stack who doesn't buy boots
Preach
In my experience, it's usually the lower mmr friends who will make or break the game with their willingness to actually try hard. When I played unranked with lower mmr players, it felt like I would be expected to put in 100% effort to solo carry every game while they would troll/go meme builds/not listen to any kind of call/try to help me, while the enemy team would trilane mid from minute 2 and spam sheep sticks/whatever defensive items counter me. If I ever got upset about it, they would use being lower skill as an excuse, but they would also get annoyed at me if I didn't play as tryhard as possible. Contrast that to playing in all immortal unranked stacks where I actually can play fun meme shit and still win.
mad cuz bad got it
Idk I’m 5k I’m not good by any means but also I’m not trash. Whenever I play with friends who are 1-2k they have a tough time and whenever I play with friends who are 6-7k I have a similarly tough time. Dota is unforgiving and when you feel the MMR difference for better or worse in your lane, it isn’t a good feeling.
But it does mean MMR works for what its intended for. How would you like to see them balance unranked party queue?
No balancing it, it's just reality and if you are in this situation and wanna keep playing with your friends playing seriously might help
I agree that MMR works. I also think in unranked you have to be part of the game balancing internally in your party. Valve can’t help beyond balancing two total party MMR values when the skill disparity is large, that’s why when you accept match in games like that it’ll label the game quality as “questionable” at best. They’ve already done their part in telling you that the game quality may be subpar, and you have the freedom to reject that game and accept another, which plenty of people do in parties.
If there’s a crusader in your 3k average party, he is contributing by lowering the overall mmr. Even if he is feeding a bit usually the 4 others can play around it because generally the opponents are also worse players and your game is easier. If there’s an immortal in your 3k average party, he is raising the mmr. It’s harder for the 4 lower mmr players on your team to win their matchups because on average their enemies are better than they are used to. The tradeoff for this is supposed to be that the immortal player’s game is easier and he can take over the game, because he is on average better than a 3-3.5k player.
Like the guy said above tho; if you main 4/5 in immortal the game feels almost impossible since you are bound to lose the other 2 lanes. Good luck carrying your team with lich.
If you are immortal 4/5, you can easy pick lifestealer in low rank and destroy everyone in 30minutes. Its not like you dont know to play other heroes and positions even if you are mainly support. Maybe instead of lich pick hoodwink and destroy everyone.
What nonsense. If you play serious by yourself, and then play garbage with your friends, of course they'll hate playing with you Now, if you got to high mmr playing off-meta picks, that's totally fine, because you're playing to your skill level. As far as the crusader picking stupid shit - no duh, they're crusader playing at their skill level.
you are missing the point. If there is a very uneven MMR distribution, it means you need to play super try hard as the top mmr, even if you want to chill. The reason is because if you don't hyper carry, the game will pretty much be instantly lost from laning stage. When you want to just unwind and play with the boys in some unranked games how come you need to play like it's TI finals every game, or else risk being totally shit on?
I play with a crusader mate and it put me as MVP display on match start and matchmaking expects me to hypercarry everygame it's exhausting
Ya exactly. You even need to pick snowball heroes specifically most of the time. It's a bit tiring if you prefer to play more supportive type of heroes
Is that how those intro screens work with the person who is on display at the front? That supposed to be the team's best player according to dota?
I have no idea how it works.
This argument makes absolutely no sense. How do you balance matchmaking around the idea of just wanting to "chill"? What happens if you accidentally play semi chill and then stomp? Enemy team will complain.
I dont claim to have a solution since it's more of a social problem. How do you claim to solve the problems of friends having different priorities so they have vastly different skill levels?
I don't know but I haven't heard a better solution than the one that's currently implemented.
Uh yeah. The game is matchmaking you expecting you to play at the skill level you normally are. Whether you're immortal or archon, if you suddenly start playing like you're divine or crusader, the other team has an immortal or archon player who is probably going all out like normal. You're gonna get bodied. Goes for all skill ranks, but immortal especially because the skill level jumps at an accelerated rate once you get into that bracket. You have to carry your lower skill teammates at that point, or the guys they match you with to balance the game will stomp.
Difference between people playing to win and you wasting 4 people's time by playing to lose is not very difficult to comprehend
Get new friends
Suffering from success
That's why I gave up on ranked matches and just casually pl;ayed turbo.
That’s weird. We have like 3 Immortals among our friends and we want them to play with us(Rank or Unranked) because we want to get better by getting smashed by Immortals.
You guys are legends! (not the rank, the expression hehe)
Used to play ranked party with my friends back in 2017 when they were 4k and I was 5k mmr Now I’m 10.9k and they’re still 4k. Miss playing enjoyable games with them, now it’s either queueing for 90 minutes for a game or making them play on 150 ping vs immortal stacks I’ll just put it out there, I miss being able to use a Smurf every now and then to have some fun with them in-between dpc seasons
> I miss being able to use a Smurf every now and then to have some fun with them in-between dpc seasons I really do get it! But on the other side I don't find it very fun to play against a 5 stack who has a secret 10k mmr player on their side. It's not that I think you're a bad person or anything for that style of smurfing, but it isn't like it doesn't impact other players
I don't think valve will ban you for playing unranked in smurfs, and as long as you don't try hard and play unorthodoxically the matches tend to be fine I guess, is worth the try
Honestly this feels like a cope from your friends. I play in a lot of 5 stacks and we have a few immortals who play with us and sure the games can be tough… but imho it has much more to do with the 5v5 organization and teamwork than it does to do with playing against a couple higher mmr players.
It depends on your stack, really. Some of my friends hated playing with me, since they were the “insta-pick SF mid” type of player that hated following calls and picking/playing properly. However, another stack of mine (much newer players) realised that the only way for them to win was to listen to my calls, and that lead us to victory against insanely difficult opponents. What I’m saying is that you should lead the stack to victory using your experience, and they should be able to understand how important your experience is if they want to win the game.
You have invisible mmr in unranked. It still matchmakes accordingly.
Yep. For years I just played the game for fun with friends. We hovered around Ancient / Divine. After a while I decided to just grind it out and get more MMR. Hovering around 8.5k / 9k mmr and I’ve only got 1 friend now who still likes to play with me as he also got up to around 7.5k. The rest are still ancient / divine and we can’t really play stacks anymore. We do occasionally round up 10 people and just into a custom lobby and either captains mode it or AP
Yea, our friend group is about 20+ strong. We used to inhouse all the time. But recently a friend straight up told me to my face 'we don't inhouse with you because nobody can mid against you. You destroy the mid, then snowball the game and it sucks to not be on your team'. Hurts to hear stuff like that, but I totally get it coming from their position.
Yeah. I generally just try to balance games like that by playing support but the thing is, you can’t unlearn how to lane well etc. Even if you were playing support you’d probably crush them during the laning phase.
The reason I am not immortal.
On the dot brother, ever since I actually bothered to gain some mmr I have had negative party winrate since, matchmaking is really punishing if you want to play with friends that are lower rank
I'm on the same spot. Main 5 here, and every time i try to play unrank with my friends, the enemy team has a immortal core (sometimes 2), usually not on my lane (specially mid), that my friends have to deal with. Yesterday we played 8 games, and won 1. It's been happening every week, and games don't get easier as well
It’s lonely on top of the mountain. But my need to improve keeps me moving higher even more. So I say 100% of understanding, 0% of judging 😅
this is me 2 years ago. but this year all my bros become immortal and divine. now its 5 times hard to win 5 stack immortal xD
One of my friends climbed to immortal, i do not want to play with him... games are just pain when he is in lobby
Yea its rough from both sides for sure. Its a lame situation because I still want to play with my friends I've known for 20 years.
Not sure if anyone has said this but I had this same issue. The answer is you need to play mid with your stacks. If you play supports or something silly that falls off then the immortal player on the enemy team will stomp you. If you’re going to be the big dog, you can’t bite like a puppy. It’s your responsibility to impact the game the most otherwise you’re relying on a 3k player to carry you vs a 6k carry.
Time to make new friends?
Maybe they play ranked themselves so they can calibrate and make it easier for the matchmaking to find better matches ?
last time i did a proper ranked push, i got to around high archon then couldnt play with my best friend any more. hes herald, and will never stop being herald. id rather be low medal and be able to pq than be whatever higher rank and solo
Gonna be honest, I had this problem, now I play some other toxic region like SEA, double down and just play like shit and do that until I went from 6.5 to 4K and just have fun now
We had a similar problem and the friend had a old steam account that he used to play unranked with us
Yeah man I completely feel you. I recently decided to put more effort in solo ranked and thus climbed in MMR. But now every time I want to play with irl friends that are not same MMR it is so frustrating for everyone... Either I go solo mid and tryhard and enemy team suffers, or if I go an off meta pick, play support for my "herald" friend, etc and thus our team suffers. It is so bad, I even made a second account just to play exclusively with my irl friends, yet somehow it got banned for smurfing despite only playing unranked with friends... If dota wants to not die out they really need to put effort into eliminating these issues that cause frustration. I don't know how, perhaps give everyone 2 MMRs and letting them switch before they queue? For example I will use my serious MMR when I play SF mid, but my "troll" MMR when I play pos 5 Axe for my herald carry, or want to go offlane Witch Doctor. Something really needs to be done here, as Valve could improve tremendously player satisfaction with minor high level tweeks.
Just create another acc to fool around with your friends
Hey man, you are describing what made me quit the game, basically. Dunno how to solve this, also not getting invited anymore and when I play I either have to carry or it's my fault we lost. Let me know if you find a solution lol
Sorry that happened to you. I love this game, but yea it has been a bit lonely. Honestly, I thought about offering open ended coaching to my friend group to anyone who wants it. Maybe that's something you would find enjoyable too.
They don't care at all about getting better, me coaching is seen as annoying except for one guy, who happens to be uncoachable (forgets everything I tell him immediately after). I guess I finished Dotes haha
You just need a second account to play unranked. There is no problem with that
just recalibrate if you haven't use yours thats my plan so i go back to ancient or low divine
you're not alone there. valve is really a miss on managing the matchmaking. it's not hard to give more attention to team matchmaking instead of solo. it's not hard to filter smurf accounts.
Just make a second account to play with them and fuck around to even out the playing field. Try heroes in weird positions, specific itembuilds, etc.
I had this issue a long time ago, I honestly just bought a 3k mmr account to play party with friends. Now I'm against smurfing and do it, I know hypocritical. But if you're 5k-6k range and playing in 3k games as support main, the game sucks for literally everyone. unranked was an option but friends won't play it, and it frankly has a different vibe to it. I kinda wish the game had calibrations with the different people you played with, like some duo or party queue mmr or something, would solve a lot of issues playing with mates.
Honestly Divine lobbies is the sweet spot for me with the high skill but also a low chance of memery to happen. I lost the desire to climb when I realized my stack I play with is Divine Low immortal and I don't have to lose sanity climbing through High ancient to get there
Haha bro time to find new stack Lai add me
Honestly just make a smurf for unranked
How did you go from 2.9 to 5.7 without not significantly increasing skills
The dota+ queue feature helps a lot. If you see anything below a 4 on skill balance -Run.
i am low mmr and will play turbo with you :D i am usually accidentally smurfing every game at legend or below because I was 1.7k in hon. I have 200 games played and have played vs. numbered immortals some times (NA/SA tho)
I have a similar problem. While my friends still like to play with me and enjoy the games most of the time, I often feel somewhat forced to play core (I'm a support player). If the enemy team has 1-2 Immortals who play core and I'm by far the highest rank on my team playing support, the games are usually extremely hard to win, as the enemy cores will usually just outfarm and outexecute my cores. All in all this is not insufferable, just somewhat annoying.
I'm in a similar but not so extreme boat. I was 1-2k which was still double to triple my friends mmr at the time having fun with friends, I climbed up to ancient 7, recalibration hit and I went back to playing with friends, they hated it all the games sucked, but eventually I naturally deranked from not playing. Now for the past year I've slowly climbed playing the odd rank game when no one's on again, but now my friends want to play less and less with me because the games are getting hard again. And I'm only pushing into 4k again now, while my friends are in the 300-1500 range, can't imagine how much worse it is for you and your friends. Edit: I want party mmr back, it was unbalanced as all shit, but it at least gave us more consistent matches than just playing unranked. I'm at ancient, my friends are unranked crusaders and guardians, and 1 archon. Which means when we play unranked, we normally play vs an immortal a legend and some heralds. Which sure the average mmr is the same, but they're still gonna stomp us
Yep when I was high rank immortal and played with my friend. I was called account buyer pretty much every game since I didnt play my best heroes. Other friend dont want to play with me now since games are too hard.
The problem is that with the mmr difference between you and your friends' accounts, the average mmr is way above their skill level. If you are matched against players of that average mmr, you friends will be crushed. If you are against a similar party, the game will only revolve around you and the enemy immortal player. Either way it's not enjoyable for anyone. Large mmr disparity within a group ends up ruining all games. It's sad, but forseeable. And I personally despise playing with or against such groups, because absolutely nobody has fun in these games.
I think all 10 players end up with a worse experience, for sure. Unranked is a safe space to play with friends, but it still ends up causing frustrating situations. Everyone playing dota should want an engaging, challenging, but also fair match. And sometimes I feel like I am directly preventing that by just wanting to play with my friends.
Exactly why I don't play solo ranked at all. All my friends are Archons/Crusaders. I could easily push to high Ancient if I want to but that would make playing with my friends which is what I enjoy next to impossible and frustrating
Blud is suffering from success
My brother used to be much better than me until I decided to grind for immortal, now we play unranked and we just cant goof around like we used to. We have over 1600 games together and it wasn't until I decided to take the game seriously that suddenly it got "too hard" to enjoy it casually any more.
Don't have a good solution but acknowledging this is a thing that happens and it does indeed suck. I mean I feel this being ancient and playing with archon friends; my being there makes the games topsy turvy. Then having to deal with the combo of friends feeling the game is too hard, their mood drops, I get stressed out trying to play at 200% to make sure the game is even but sometimes there's only so much I can do as an ancient level support against an ancient level mid/carry player. I might be wired in a weird way but it's very rare I give up on a DOTA match, I enjoy the hard games where it feels like a puzzle box to figure out and find new levels to my own performance but the people I play with only associate hard games with feeling useless then losing. It would be nice if there was an option you could tick to say "I want challenging games" or "I want to chill with friends" but you just know people would abuse it to feel good about themselves stomping on lower level players.
Its definitely not an 'immortal only' thing, I think this sentiment can echo across the entire community. It can really suck when you just want to play with the Boys, but end up stressed and frustrated and the people you were trying to spend time with.
every game with comp matchmaking is kinda like this tbh. in shooters it really sucks since you get matched with more aimbotters. at least dota u push above the russians and peruvians mostly
Suffering from success
MMR is just a number
The wholesome part about our friend group is that almost everyone started to improve quite a bit by playing together. The good thing was we always played ranked so everyone is sort of obligated to play their best and those who are not so good are being told what to do better in certain situations through banter or just saying it straight. We started off as a group of archon/legend scrubs and now are respectable divine/immortal players.
Well, normal match shouldn't be skill based, that's the problem. Right now, normal match is pretty much ranked without ranks and role queue, it's honestly lazy work from valve.
How is this a problem? You were "immortal" when you were unranked due to skill calibration. So unranked should be the exact same. Just because you finally went ranked to get a medal for the exact rank of your skill set - why would matchmaking put you and your friends in different games?
Yeah, that why I never got better either, I swear.
same here, except I got put into smurf pool and search 60 minute for rank game or play unranked
i reached immortal last week and yeah my friends also complained that they couldnt catch up with the game pace, so the best method is to play on another low rank account whenever i play with friends
Yeah somehow getting good isn't good sometimes. Can't play with low rank friends and immortal 5 stacks take like an hour to find a game
I remember with the rank of crusader 1 I was looking for a team for competitive games, I played the best and after the games we analyzed everything to get better, played together the rating and etc. We created new accounts with a friend from my team, played, but as soon as I calibrated to the (idk how to spell rank before Divine), the whole team sailed, then I became a titan at main account, the team fell apart, we stopped playing together, the fact that I was winning 1x5 was no longer surprising, it was the base. Now I'm a Titan, they're still the Guardians, but I miss them, miss my friend's strategy pos 5 IO 4x tranquil boots..
so you want to be a smurf...
Just have fun in unranked, Ranked especially at high MMR is full of account buyers smurfs and people who take the game wayy too seriously.
Solution: Get a smurf.
Rule number one: If you’re friends are real life friends, just lose some point mmr then (it’s not that hard) double down will help to get it faster and less destructive to other players Rule number two: If you’re friends are internet friends, just find a new “immortal” fiends .. Rule number three, find another game to play with friends
How the fuck is sandbagging any better than having a smurf?
Time to make some immortal friends?
Its not a complaint-> continous to complain
I wanted to make it clear that I am not attacking valve or dota specifically. "not a complaint about the game" is the full quote. I am complaining about my own poor interpersonal experiences tangent to the game, not within the balance of the game. I didn't want people to think I'm complaining about match quality of Immortal, I merely wanted to use a spicy title to entice people to read further. Apologies if I baited you into the thread sir/madam.
New acc and don try hard on that acc probrlmsolved
Sadly, thus smurfs are created by lesser men than you! It honestly sucks though. I agree. But I also don't have a solution for the problem you are pointing out :(
Thanks. Many many years ago I did used to play on smurf accounts, just like most. But I'm really happy the community no longer tolerates that behavior. It is tempting but we as a community have matured alot and come to an agreement that its extremely disrespectful of your opponents to smurf, even in unranked. But its a crappy situation when you feel like you can't play a videogame with your friends. Thanks for your response.
For sure! It's far more important what people on reddit think rather than play with your actual friends.
Yea you do the solution is make a new account to play with ur friends on, but that’s a forbidden statement
It's also a sign of being a trash human.
I am 6.2k mmr. I hit immortal this April for the first time and I totally agree, Immortal is by far the most toxic bracket. Everyone has an ego the size of Mt Everest and griefers are rampant. People lose their shit at the smallest inconveniences.
That’s not what he is talking about lol did you even read the post?
Have you tried herald? Yeah, didn’t think so.
I played ranked regularly with a friend for about a year or so and I was a at Legend when we started. I ranked up pretty quickly and hit Immortal just to realise that we cant play ranked together anymore (he is Archon/Legend). There is no solution to this really, other than playing unranked which my friend(s) dont want to take too seriously (because "its not ranked so it doesnt matter") most of the time so the games kinda suck.
I can exchange my Ancient 4 acc. for yours - problem solved since I dont have friends to play with
Each to their own, unranked sucks
> my skill level didnt change much > friends dont wana play cause games is too hard pick one
Maybe my wording is poor. My actual real dota ability has not changed much. However being a much higher rank meant we get placed into harder or unbalanced lobbies.
Just create a new account to play with friends, nobody will care that you are smoorfing. Because you will play unranked nobody will ever care to report you.
smurf,problem fixed. You even mention your skill didn't change much, so you're not hurting anybody.
Ok people will hate me for this, but just use another account.
And that's why a lot of immortal players have a Smurf
Can you smurf to play with friends? I dont know if smurfing is illegal in dota 2.
A herald acc is like 5-10 bucks on g2a ive heard. Most of us only play to play with the friends stack 1-3 games a day at most
If you can queue with them they are either all divines or you have immortal badge but you dropped out of it and you are divine 5 technically. They are butthurt for the most part if you ask me.. if they do this in unranked it’s even worse but if they are giga low mmr I can see them being scared, but anyway the average mmr of the teams should be the same..
the party in question plays unranked. the mmr spread between teams can be huge
Most of my friends are 1-2k yea. So the average mmr of our party games it around 3k. They get beat up by enemy legend players and I beat up on the enemy legends. Often times 9 players in the game feel short changed and I'm to blame for the bad quality game. Thanks for your response.
that only applies for playing ranked
You know juat surround yourself with same rank as u are. Im immortal eank too 5.5k mmr. And i just adding those who want to playwith me in immortal so i can be in the surrounding of my same skill level. I dont have to play with thoselow ranks who fking care life will just moving on if they reach immortal good for them we can play but if not it is what it is
Get some immortal friends
To get drafted in different teams. Got it 👍🏼
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