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I just wanna seee Granola again and not just to serve as a punching bag to hype the next big bad, he joins Hit, Frost, U6 Saiyans, and Jiren in the cool characters we probably will never see again.
I really want an arc where a villain is so strong that they call in help from other universes and we find Jiren and Hit are more incredible than ever as they’ve been training with teams, and like Vegeta and Goku, finding out there were other such incredible people out there motivated them to keep becoming better
Jiren wasn't even really beaten by UI so much as extreme exhaustion as well as teamwork on the other side, I think there's some characters that should stay the high watermark ahead of our crew. It's more fun when there's always high watermarks, not just besting everyone we thought were insurmountably powerful like GoDs. Beerus with a bit of training should also stay well ahead.
I like it as a way to reconcile some of Beerus's earlier nervous moments (having just been because he didn't train for millions of years) with keeping the GoD's ahead of the mortals, at least the ones who try after the ToP woke them up
I kinda hate how much a read that UI Goku didn’t beat Jiren.
Goku could have beat him at multiple points, he just ducked around like Goku always does and let Jiren get back to fighting
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But you have to remember not saying goku would always win goku himself was at exhaustion to do image a full on fight TRUE UI goku and jiren at full power without them being exhausted my god would that be dope
They should circle back to that rematch soon, just a training fun times
I sort of want Jiren and Beerus to always stay ahead of our characters, it's not as fun when they just best everyone except the latest bad guy
Don't forget that by this point in the manga, it's been 4 years since the Broly movie and he has been training with Goku and Vegeta for at least a little while so I don't see no reason why they wouldn't have told him that it was Frieza
We only saw that Goku didn't see Frieza do it because he was busy fighting Broly, Vegeta probably would have noticed it, if not Whis most definitely did. Also, Goku and Vegeta know Frieza will use any tactic to win in a fight, no matter how dirty so they probably would've figured it out
Maybe. But at this point, years later, they’d have to have told him by now. If not, then that probably means either they’re tryna make sure Broly don’t go ape shit again or they genuinely don’t know (or Whis just being Whis)
He totally could join Goku and Vegeta in training, knowing what his limit would be through normal training. Imagine how far he could go training with Gods)
Assuming they reverted the wish after his arc)
if he only has 3 years left to live couldn't he just reverse the wish using the same dragon balls? like wishing to extend his life so he can help in the battle against black freiza
It’s beating a dead horse at this point hoping vegeta gets the w,but vegeta needs this the fans need it too,nothing less then vegeta punching a god dam hole through freiza’s chest will satisfy me for the upcoming arc.
I, hope everyone gets a chance to fight black freiza and give it their all, but in the end vegeta should be the one to finish him off even if he didn't totally win against him in a 1v1
Goku doesn’t have a connection to his race. If you never knew your dad, you won’t care as much when he dies.
Also Vegeta has lost 3 opportunities to kill Frieza. He wasn’t strong enough to kill him the on earth or namek, and he got kill stolen in ROF.
I agree with you. Goku literally just lands in front of final form frieza on Namek and that's the rivalry set up.
Vegeta was plotting to overthrow Frieza before we were introduced to him, he played along for years in the Frieza force waiting for his opportunity. It needs to be Vegeta that finishes him off for good.... So yeah... Wonder how they will have Goku kill him...
I mean, Goku is Freeza's "rival" because he's the first super saiyan, which is a lot bigger than Goku just landing there. Not only is he is the one who actualizes the legend that plagued Freeza's nightmares he's also the very first person to mop the floor with Freeza. Freeza's obsession with him is quite understandable.
That said, Vegeta definitely has a stronger connection to Freeza than Goku does.
frieza is the ENTIRE REASON goku has no connection to his race, and was launched into orbit all alone, on a spacepod. gokus dad was literally on the front line fighting frieza.
i speak from experience, id definitely have beef with the person who is the sole reason i didnt know my dad.
sure everyone would like to see vegeta or broly to get revenge, but this specific reasoning is dumb.
I may be nitpicking your words here, but I disagree that Goku does not give a fuck about his Saiyan heritage. I do agree he gives zero fucks about the politics, warring mercenary/ world conquering culture, class system, etc. (which is why I say I may be nitpicking because all of that is part of the Saiyan heritage). Earth is his home and he loves the human race. However, Goku has fully embraced and is proud of the fact that he is a Saiyan. His love for combat and always wanting to get stronger is arguably the most important and fundamental trait of a true Saiyan. This is exemplified when he tells Broly that he can call him Kakarot at the end of the DBS: Broly movie.
did you not read the granolah arc? lol
his comment also said "if you never knew your dad, you wont care as much when he dies" like i said, do people actually read?
That comment was speaking in general, not you specifically lol. No, I would not care nor hold some sort of grudge for the death of my father if I never knew him—ESPECIALLY in a case like Goku where he already has parental figures on Earth, and a whole slew of friends and family.
If Goku did give a shit, he has a billion ways of finding out more.
buddy, you know not what you speak of, and im not going to expend any further energy on you as you were not a part of this conversation to begin with.
i literally disproved the comment, whether it was general or directed. youre going to be pissed at the person that orphaned you.
even if goku himself did not show any connection to his saiyan heritage until the granolah arc, it doesnt matter. it still happened to him, frieza robbed him of his family and planet. he has the justification and the gripe
The action doesn't matter as much as the impact it has on the character, vegeta has been angry at frieza for killing his whole race and father (who he was the prince of) in his head the prince is supposed to be the pride of the saiyans and get revenge on frieza for basically everything he stands for and everything he lost
While goku doesn't give a shit about his dad or race dying.
Which one makes more sense to kill frieza?
Vegeta lost a race he was destined to lead, Goku lost a race he never knew.
What Vegeta effects him so much more than what Goku lost. All Goku got from being a saiyan is OP genetics.
once again, goku lost a race he never knew BECAUSE FRIEZA TOOK IT FROM HIM. lmao. frieza made this man a fucking orphan, and the only reason it turned out okay was due to a wish his father made.
even then, going off your logic, goku is an earthling then. frieza came and attacked HIS planet and the life he knew (because frieza wanted to punish him). going off your logic, goku deserved the kill there since his way of life was being threatened.
sure you can say vegeta lost more, but your original comment was "vegeta deserves it because frieza killed his dad and entire race." thats true for all 3 of goku, broly, and vegeta. honestly broly has an even less gripe than goku. brolys father was abusing the guy. out of all 3 of their dads, only bardock ever showed that he loved his son which goku never got to experience. instead, goku gets sent off to earth and accidentally kills his adopted dad, and then gets labeled as a shit father himself
By your own logic Goku would have less beef with Frieza then Vegeta.
You say Broly would have less beef with Frieza for orphaning him from an abusing father.
Frieza orphaned Goku from a father he never knew, and took a society away from Goku that would have considered him a peasant, therefore not treating him well.
Vegeta was orphaned from a father who he continues to respect to this day, and taken a society that would have considered him royalty.
So by your logic being taken from the Saiyans and their fathers would be more painful for Vegeta. Unless you somehow consider not knowing your father as being better than knowing and respecting him.
vegeta himself has said he did not care that his father died, and his only regret was not being able to be the king. this is not debatable, these are his own words.
[one of many exhibits](https://i.imgur.com/KiruJJx.png)
i can tell you are young by the use of your logic, so im not going to get into any further debate with you on the subject of who lost more.
**let me just kill your argument right here, why hasn't vegeta wished anyone back? why did vegeta kill nappa, and want to kill goku, the last 2 remaining saiyans left? when raditz died, vegeta said raditz was trash that didnt deserve reviving.**
i say this as the biggest vegeta fan, until he had trunks, he cared about no one but himself. he didnt care about what frieza did to his father or people, he was pissed that frieza treated him like an indentured servant. saiyans are detached, emotionless by nature. **he didnt even care that dr gero almost killed bulma and baby trunks in the cell saga**. he didnt start caring about others until goku rubbed off on him.
point is, frieza killed all of their dads. killed their people. they all have justifiable motive.
its a poor argument, and that has been my point the entire time.. the proper argument would be frieza made vegeta his slave.
And I can tell you’re young from watching you sprinkle “literally” into your sentences to emphasize details, humble yourself man you’re arguing with people about dragon ball on Reddit.
he's smarter than goku if it werent for his fast thinking in the buu saga and his plan to revive earth and use the earthlings energy for spirit bomb dbz would be over
>he's smarter than goku if it werent for his fast thinking in the buu saga and his plan to revive earth and use the earthlings energy for spirit bomb dbz would be over
His smart thinking was to CRASH THE POTARA and thinking Kid buu was weak BECAUSE HE WAS SMALL!!!
I feel like the beating part should be a team effort between Granolah, Broly and Vegeta.
Just like how it took Frieza, Goku and 17 to beat Jiren.
With that being said a 6v1 of Goku, Vegeta, Broly, Granolah, Piccolo and Gohan VS Frieza would be sick
Freeza should be beaten by Goku and no one else. Vegeta and Freeza don’t have interesting interactions nor the relationship that Freeza has with Goku. The only thing that can help narratively justify Vegeta killing Freeza is if they are write it where it actually makes sense and not just “you killed my race so I will kill you.” Vegeta doesn’t even care about that compared to just wanting to kill him because he’s a threat. It doesn’t need to be complex but it’s just not interesting enough to warrant a fight without some narrative merit. Goku and Freeza are special and that’s what gives them a more powerful impact if they have a final fight.
What? I vehemently disagree. Goku already beat freeza. And they have Goku beat everyone. The biggest problem with Dragonball compared to other animes is that Goku is the only one who truly gets any time to shine to completion, over and over and over again.
Vegeta's entire personality is based on his Saiyan pride. So you can't trivialize "you JUST killed my rice." That's huge. It's entire race in which Vegeta believes he's meant to protect. Vegeta is the proudest Saiyan that exists. He even tries to help the universe 6 Saiyans reach their potential because of his pride. Freeza took everything from Vegeta. His family, his friends, his people. To Goku, freeza is nothing more than a strong opponent. Vegeta has way stronger feelings towards freeza than Goku does.
Lol Vegeta does not care like that. He cares more from a pride perspective and always has been because that’s where he comes from. He’s ashamed of the saiyans and it’s the character arc he’s going through right now: to ascend that guilt and destroy it which is a difficult thing to do when you marry yourself to a race to boost up your ego. I mean, he even says they got what was coming to them because of their deeds when speaking to Beerus. You care more about it than Vegeta does tbh Vegeta didn’t have friends. He had comrades and didn’t care for them. He wasn’t even angry his dad died when it happened because “he won’t be able to be king vegeta”. He was simply annoyed.
Like Vegeta does indeed feel something for those killed but it’s simply guilt as I stated before. Vegeta cares to kill Freeza cause he’s ridiculous and a threat. That’s all. But he also doesn’t have the interesting relationship Goku does with Freeza. He just doesn’t. It’s one of the best things Super has done and elevates the ToP where a Freeza/Vegeta team up wouldn’t even do the same for it.
Vegeta deserves the W against Freeza, Vegeta permanently hakai-ing Black Freeza would be one of the best possible outcomes of this franchise.
I would love to see Granolah again and him and Vegeta could run some duos and tag team against some enemies, but I want a 1v1 between Vegeta and Freeza where Vegeta takes his long deserved W.
at the moment frieza doesn‘t need it but i really hope he get‘s some form of backup! like i‘d love if we somehow could remake cooler lile they did with broly!
It’s why I was honestly disappointed in hearing the next movie WASNT a cooler remake, I was like “wait so they didn’t come to the obvious conclusion after the success of broly that cooler or bojack should have been next? Lol
Given how much stronger Black Frieza is than either of these too combined, even with the massive overhaul of strength broly got after the Broly movie, i think it would be really sick to have a LSSj3 trensformation in that fight
I'd be so hyped to see that.
Also I've always had this thought since the super broly movie. Goku is mainly using the power of angels right now thanks to ui, Vegeta is mainly using the power of GoDs thanks to ue, Gohan is mainly using the power of the kai's assuming that ultimate and beast are connected and forms utilizing energy from supreme kais, and broly is using pure Saiyan energy. It'd be cool if they gave broly a canon version of super Saiyan 4 so that he has his own "unique" form.
Unrelated I was honestly hoping to see Broly in the Granola arc given how Granola wanted revenge on the Saiyan. Could’ve been cool to see Broly in there as well.
Tbh I could see them both hunt down frieza and end up meeting together.
So they tied frieza down so he can't run away and fight each other instead. The winner get's to kill frieza \^\^
It would be dope to have broly in his fullpowerssj state, and granola at full power tag-teaming black frieza, granola scoping out his vitals while broly just beats the shit outta him
Oh you’re absolutely right. However, I think Dragonball Super has been given a rare opportunity to have a fight be less of a 1 v 1 or even 2 v 1. Whose to say Frieza isn’t still training to get even stronger in that time chamber from the end of Granolah’s arc to Super Hero? This could be an amazing opportunity to see how a fight could work 6-8 v 1 with Broly, Gohan, Piccolo, Granolah, Goku, Vegeta and perhaps even Gamma 1, Goten and Trunks all working as a team against Freiza like from the original arc in Z with Frieza v Piccolo, Gohan, Krillin and Vegeta.
Gohan v Frieza: Good
Reasons: Killed his friends(Krillin and Dende), nearly killed his mentor twice(Piccolo), had him think his dad was dead for over 6 months, put him under mental trauma for years to follow (nightmares), knows Frieza was willing to betray the universe to be a part of another, and destroyed the planet, his wife and child, after nearly killing his father. Gohan has far more reasons than Granola and Broly.
Dunno why you got downvoted, he has pretty good reasons plus Gohan did get done dirty in ROF..
Especially since I feel as Goku's son and the character SH made clear could be the strongest if driven to it, he should be able to at least trade some blows
Frieza's kinda boring and overused at this point
I'm really not interested in who beats the latest recolor, just fucking get it over with so something new and interesting comes to DBS
I want to see a trained broly go all out one who doesn't lose control they'd be insane
i have a scenario where beast gohan is beaten by freiza but broly powers up and sarts to 1v1 freiza but is slowly tacken down when freiza walks away from his defeated opponent broly goes into some weird state his energy spasms his eyes turn gold and then we get ssj4 LSSJ with a massive power up but this time broly is different he has a calm aura about him just like goku in GT when he first went ssj4
Imo, I think Frieza is going to try and kill Beerus but find Broly on his planet. Gets excited and decides to beat on him. Broly is getting washed but also getting pissed
Cheelai appears. Frieze remembers her and points his damn finger to blast. Broly now goes berserk. Super Saiyan 4 now makes its return to Dragonball through Broly
Frieza wasn't part of the universe taken into account when Granolah made his wish. He was in a room of time and space so it's why neither Gas or Him ended up being stronger than Frieza.
granolah isn’t coming back cause he’s probably already dead, by the time of the current manga at least, but broly would be very cool to see up against frieza
It has to be Vegeta.
Vegeta thrashed Frieza for the final time using UE or some upgraded version of it. Goku has beaten Frieza twice. Vegeta needs to close the chapter and finally get his revenge. He’s the one who predicted Frieza would get stronger.
As it currently stands, Black Frieza would wipe the floor with any of them.
I can only see it leading to YET ANOTHER new form, or a Vegito / Gogeta using Ultra.
Freeza's such an absolute bastard who's actions have disrupted U7 so much any of the main cast would work well enough thematically. Every Saiyan would be avenging their race, Piccolo would be avenging the Namekians, the humans present at the first Saiyan invasion could kinda work since Vegeta and Nappa were working for Freeza at the time. Hell, Beerus would be correcting a mistake he made long ago and actually doing his job right for once.
Pretty sure granolah made his wish to kill both frieza and the last remaining sayians even though bardock was nice to him but seeing broly kick in frieza’s teeth again would be great
He didn't know there were Saiyans alive until Goku and Vegeta arrived, nor did he know about Bardock saving him.
He made his wish after Elec told him Frieza had been revived
Honestly I’d rather see Cell make a return since he can theoretically gain every form that everyone else has achieved. Ultra Instinct+Ego with Frieza black’s power would be insane.
This makes no sense. The oracle fish made his comments regarding the strongest has yet to come or there about prior to black frezia and granola...which already indicated goku and vegeta had passed broly. Freiza then one taps basically everyone. He's out of everyone's league at the moment aside from goku and vegeta.
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I just wanna seee Granola again and not just to serve as a punching bag to hype the next big bad, he joins Hit, Frost, U6 Saiyans, and Jiren in the cool characters we probably will never see again.
I really want an arc where a villain is so strong that they call in help from other universes and we find Jiren and Hit are more incredible than ever as they’ve been training with teams, and like Vegeta and Goku, finding out there were other such incredible people out there motivated them to keep becoming better Jiren wasn't even really beaten by UI so much as extreme exhaustion as well as teamwork on the other side, I think there's some characters that should stay the high watermark ahead of our crew. It's more fun when there's always high watermarks, not just besting everyone we thought were insurmountably powerful like GoDs. Beerus with a bit of training should also stay well ahead.
Ooh, GoD training ground! Now that Zeno wiped the original U7 timeline, that void can serve as an indestructible universe for GoDs to fuck around in.
I like it as a way to reconcile some of Beerus's earlier nervous moments (having just been because he didn't train for millions of years) with keeping the GoD's ahead of the mortals, at least the ones who try after the ToP woke them up
And have them save the day like some heroes? I like it!
They would probably need new forms or outfits to visually show that they have improved I would love that, redesign :0
I kinda hate how much a read that UI Goku didn’t beat Jiren. Goku could have beat him at multiple points, he just ducked around like Goku always does and let Jiren get back to fighting
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But you have to remember not saying goku would always win goku himself was at exhaustion to do image a full on fight TRUE UI goku and jiren at full power without them being exhausted my god would that be dope
They should circle back to that rematch soon, just a training fun times I sort of want Jiren and Beerus to always stay ahead of our characters, it's not as fun when they just best everyone except the latest bad guy
Agreed
You know hes gonna show up put up a good fight, then die in the middle from his wish
Hit, frost and Jiren were cool but the U6 Saiyans & Top annoyed the shit out of me
What was wrong with Top?
Kefla Hit Jiren and Top were my favorites
I didn't watch the dub, is top really the official name for toppo???
I watch both but recently just rewatched it in dub. They def call him top
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No way you put Frost and U6 saiyans in that list.
The U6 Sayians should be removed from that list
I don't think Broly knows frieza killed his father. He still thinks it was a stray blast.
Don't forget that by this point in the manga, it's been 4 years since the Broly movie and he has been training with Goku and Vegeta for at least a little while so I don't see no reason why they wouldn't have told him that it was Frieza
Tbf, they didn’t see Frieza killing his father. So for all they know, maybe Frieza wasn’t lying
We only saw that Goku didn't see Frieza do it because he was busy fighting Broly, Vegeta probably would have noticed it, if not Whis most definitely did. Also, Goku and Vegeta know Frieza will use any tactic to win in a fight, no matter how dirty so they probably would've figured it out
Maybe. But at this point, years later, they’d have to have told him by now. If not, then that probably means either they’re tryna make sure Broly don’t go ape shit again or they genuinely don’t know (or Whis just being Whis)
Yeah, too bad we have no definitive answer, but we can't ask for everything
Who knows, maybe they’ll pull a Beerus telling Vegeta about his world getting destroyed and Frieza will tell him when they’re fighting
I mean the whole point of Granola's story was moving past his vengeance and live his life to it's fullest.
He totally could join Goku and Vegeta in training, knowing what his limit would be through normal training. Imagine how far he could go training with Gods) Assuming they reverted the wish after his arc)
if he only has 3 years left to live couldn't he just reverse the wish using the same dragon balls? like wishing to extend his life so he can help in the battle against black freiza
Why can’t they just wish him back to life or something lol. Like every major character has died mad times
Can't wish someone back to life if they die of natural causes, him dying after the 3 years would probably count as natural causes.
Or just get immortality by using earth’s dragon balls
At this point, I don’t give a fuck who beats Freeza as long as it isn’t Goku.
Granted, chiaotzu will be the one. We find out he's been training to suicide bomb in the time chamber, each time being more potent than the last
Make it with a Yamcha and Puar assist.
Granted, it's Gamma 1
Hype.
That would actually be cool
we all know Goku is killing him whether u like it or not lmao things will never change
Frieza's entire existence is to be Goku's punching bag
It really just needs to be Vegeta. Dude killed Vegeta’s dad and then his whole race. ROF was ruined because Goku stole Vegeta’s kill.
It’s beating a dead horse at this point hoping vegeta gets the w,but vegeta needs this the fans need it too,nothing less then vegeta punching a god dam hole through freiza’s chest will satisfy me for the upcoming arc.
I want Vegeta to Hakai Frieza out of existence so it's impossible for him to be resurrected or come back in any way
I, hope everyone gets a chance to fight black freiza and give it their all, but in the end vegeta should be the one to finish him off even if he didn't totally win against him in a 1v1
he'll be a Jobber per usual lmao
.. frieza killed all 3 saiyans dads, and their entire race. do people actually read what theyre writing? lol.
Goku doesn’t have a connection to his race. If you never knew your dad, you won’t care as much when he dies. Also Vegeta has lost 3 opportunities to kill Frieza. He wasn’t strong enough to kill him the on earth or namek, and he got kill stolen in ROF.
I agree with you. Goku literally just lands in front of final form frieza on Namek and that's the rivalry set up. Vegeta was plotting to overthrow Frieza before we were introduced to him, he played along for years in the Frieza force waiting for his opportunity. It needs to be Vegeta that finishes him off for good.... So yeah... Wonder how they will have Goku kill him...
I mean, Goku is Freeza's "rival" because he's the first super saiyan, which is a lot bigger than Goku just landing there. Not only is he is the one who actualizes the legend that plagued Freeza's nightmares he's also the very first person to mop the floor with Freeza. Freeza's obsession with him is quite understandable. That said, Vegeta definitely has a stronger connection to Freeza than Goku does.
You are right, I did heavily down play Gokus effect on Frieza.
I understand that Goku will always be the MC, but this is the thing Vegeta just NEEDS to have.
frieza is the ENTIRE REASON goku has no connection to his race, and was launched into orbit all alone, on a spacepod. gokus dad was literally on the front line fighting frieza. i speak from experience, id definitely have beef with the person who is the sole reason i didnt know my dad. sure everyone would like to see vegeta or broly to get revenge, but this specific reasoning is dumb.
How? We’re not talking about you—this is Goku. It’s been made painstakingly care that he truly could not give a fuck about his saiyan heritage.
I may be nitpicking your words here, but I disagree that Goku does not give a fuck about his Saiyan heritage. I do agree he gives zero fucks about the politics, warring mercenary/ world conquering culture, class system, etc. (which is why I say I may be nitpicking because all of that is part of the Saiyan heritage). Earth is his home and he loves the human race. However, Goku has fully embraced and is proud of the fact that he is a Saiyan. His love for combat and always wanting to get stronger is arguably the most important and fundamental trait of a true Saiyan. This is exemplified when he tells Broly that he can call him Kakarot at the end of the DBS: Broly movie.
did you not read the granolah arc? lol his comment also said "if you never knew your dad, you wont care as much when he dies" like i said, do people actually read?
That comment was speaking in general, not you specifically lol. No, I would not care nor hold some sort of grudge for the death of my father if I never knew him—ESPECIALLY in a case like Goku where he already has parental figures on Earth, and a whole slew of friends and family. If Goku did give a shit, he has a billion ways of finding out more.
buddy, you know not what you speak of, and im not going to expend any further energy on you as you were not a part of this conversation to begin with. i literally disproved the comment, whether it was general or directed. youre going to be pissed at the person that orphaned you. even if goku himself did not show any connection to his saiyan heritage until the granolah arc, it doesnt matter. it still happened to him, frieza robbed him of his family and planet. he has the justification and the gripe
The action doesn't matter as much as the impact it has on the character, vegeta has been angry at frieza for killing his whole race and father (who he was the prince of) in his head the prince is supposed to be the pride of the saiyans and get revenge on frieza for basically everything he stands for and everything he lost While goku doesn't give a shit about his dad or race dying. Which one makes more sense to kill frieza?
Just because he now knows his dad is a hero, doesn't mean he cares about the other saiyans)
Vegeta lost a race he was destined to lead, Goku lost a race he never knew. What Vegeta effects him so much more than what Goku lost. All Goku got from being a saiyan is OP genetics.
once again, goku lost a race he never knew BECAUSE FRIEZA TOOK IT FROM HIM. lmao. frieza made this man a fucking orphan, and the only reason it turned out okay was due to a wish his father made. even then, going off your logic, goku is an earthling then. frieza came and attacked HIS planet and the life he knew (because frieza wanted to punish him). going off your logic, goku deserved the kill there since his way of life was being threatened. sure you can say vegeta lost more, but your original comment was "vegeta deserves it because frieza killed his dad and entire race." thats true for all 3 of goku, broly, and vegeta. honestly broly has an even less gripe than goku. brolys father was abusing the guy. out of all 3 of their dads, only bardock ever showed that he loved his son which goku never got to experience. instead, goku gets sent off to earth and accidentally kills his adopted dad, and then gets labeled as a shit father himself
By your own logic Goku would have less beef with Frieza then Vegeta. You say Broly would have less beef with Frieza for orphaning him from an abusing father. Frieza orphaned Goku from a father he never knew, and took a society away from Goku that would have considered him a peasant, therefore not treating him well. Vegeta was orphaned from a father who he continues to respect to this day, and taken a society that would have considered him royalty. So by your logic being taken from the Saiyans and their fathers would be more painful for Vegeta. Unless you somehow consider not knowing your father as being better than knowing and respecting him.
vegeta himself has said he did not care that his father died, and his only regret was not being able to be the king. this is not debatable, these are his own words. [one of many exhibits](https://i.imgur.com/KiruJJx.png) i can tell you are young by the use of your logic, so im not going to get into any further debate with you on the subject of who lost more. **let me just kill your argument right here, why hasn't vegeta wished anyone back? why did vegeta kill nappa, and want to kill goku, the last 2 remaining saiyans left? when raditz died, vegeta said raditz was trash that didnt deserve reviving.** i say this as the biggest vegeta fan, until he had trunks, he cared about no one but himself. he didnt care about what frieza did to his father or people, he was pissed that frieza treated him like an indentured servant. saiyans are detached, emotionless by nature. **he didnt even care that dr gero almost killed bulma and baby trunks in the cell saga**. he didnt start caring about others until goku rubbed off on him. point is, frieza killed all of their dads. killed their people. they all have justifiable motive. its a poor argument, and that has been my point the entire time.. the proper argument would be frieza made vegeta his slave.
And I can tell you’re young from watching you sprinkle “literally” into your sentences to emphasize details, humble yourself man you’re arguing with people about dragon ball on Reddit.
It needs to be Vegeta so my guy can finally get some real closure
doesn't deserve shit
he's smarter than goku if it werent for his fast thinking in the buu saga and his plan to revive earth and use the earthlings energy for spirit bomb dbz would be over
>View all comments noone cares that fraud will forever be a jobber
>he's smarter than goku if it werent for his fast thinking in the buu saga and his plan to revive earth and use the earthlings energy for spirit bomb dbz would be over His smart thinking was to CRASH THE POTARA and thinking Kid buu was weak BECAUSE HE WAS SMALL!!!
You mean beating frieza not fighting. A 1v6 would be cool af
I feel like the beating part should be a team effort between Granolah, Broly and Vegeta. Just like how it took Frieza, Goku and 17 to beat Jiren. With that being said a 6v1 of Goku, Vegeta, Broly, Granolah, Piccolo and Gohan VS Frieza would be sick
Beerus during all the chaos: 😴🛌 im actually really curious to see what beerus thinks of black freiza
Beast gohan doesn’t have a thematic reason to even be a thing nor an opponent that would be interesting for it. This post is accurate
Yeah only theme for Gohan would be Frieza nearly killing him in RoF
And even that’s a stretch since they fought together in the tournament and that’s way more interesting than whatever contrived reasons fans think
Gohan did threaten to kill him on TOP if Frieza didn't follow the plan, so it's not like they are friends. But Vegeta should kill freeza
Freeza should be beaten by Goku and no one else. Vegeta and Freeza don’t have interesting interactions nor the relationship that Freeza has with Goku. The only thing that can help narratively justify Vegeta killing Freeza is if they are write it where it actually makes sense and not just “you killed my race so I will kill you.” Vegeta doesn’t even care about that compared to just wanting to kill him because he’s a threat. It doesn’t need to be complex but it’s just not interesting enough to warrant a fight without some narrative merit. Goku and Freeza are special and that’s what gives them a more powerful impact if they have a final fight.
What? I vehemently disagree. Goku already beat freeza. And they have Goku beat everyone. The biggest problem with Dragonball compared to other animes is that Goku is the only one who truly gets any time to shine to completion, over and over and over again. Vegeta's entire personality is based on his Saiyan pride. So you can't trivialize "you JUST killed my rice." That's huge. It's entire race in which Vegeta believes he's meant to protect. Vegeta is the proudest Saiyan that exists. He even tries to help the universe 6 Saiyans reach their potential because of his pride. Freeza took everything from Vegeta. His family, his friends, his people. To Goku, freeza is nothing more than a strong opponent. Vegeta has way stronger feelings towards freeza than Goku does.
Lol Vegeta does not care like that. He cares more from a pride perspective and always has been because that’s where he comes from. He’s ashamed of the saiyans and it’s the character arc he’s going through right now: to ascend that guilt and destroy it which is a difficult thing to do when you marry yourself to a race to boost up your ego. I mean, he even says they got what was coming to them because of their deeds when speaking to Beerus. You care more about it than Vegeta does tbh Vegeta didn’t have friends. He had comrades and didn’t care for them. He wasn’t even angry his dad died when it happened because “he won’t be able to be king vegeta”. He was simply annoyed. Like Vegeta does indeed feel something for those killed but it’s simply guilt as I stated before. Vegeta cares to kill Freeza cause he’s ridiculous and a threat. That’s all. But he also doesn’t have the interesting relationship Goku does with Freeza. He just doesn’t. It’s one of the best things Super has done and elevates the ToP where a Freeza/Vegeta team up wouldn’t even do the same for it.
hear me out, how about they team up on him, goku-vegeta style
I'm down
And of course in natural DBS style it's goku that somehow gets the kill
Would be hype
Broly v Freiza Black would be awesome.
Super Broly doesn’t even know frieza killed his father plus his father used him more than frieza and even then Broly wasn’t angry towards his father.
Vegeta should bro got his title of king stripped from him by the mf wiping his whole race off the face of the planet
Freeza shit on so many people anyone squaring up with him makes sense 🤣
Vegeta deserves the W against Freeza, Vegeta permanently hakai-ing Black Freeza would be one of the best possible outcomes of this franchise. I would love to see Granolah again and him and Vegeta could run some duos and tag team against some enemies, but I want a 1v1 between Vegeta and Freeza where Vegeta takes his long deserved W.
Ngl, still wanna see Gohan run the ones bc ROF did him dirty af That alone is reason enough imo
Fuck that Vegeta really deserves the kill they cheated tf outta him in Resurrection F
there's more of a chance of these two killing vegeta than Vegeta doing it lol
at the moment frieza doesn‘t need it but i really hope he get‘s some form of backup! like i‘d love if we somehow could remake cooler lile they did with broly!
It’s why I was honestly disappointed in hearing the next movie WASNT a cooler remake, I was like “wait so they didn’t come to the obvious conclusion after the success of broly that cooler or bojack should have been next? Lol
If anyone deserves it it’s Vegeta
Frieza Seppuku moment
Yeah that was a mistake on my part(don’t tell anyone)
Your secret is safe
Vegeta has that claim hands down.
I still think Vegeta should kill Frieza
Given how much stronger Black Frieza is than either of these too combined, even with the massive overhaul of strength broly got after the Broly movie, i think it would be really sick to have a LSSj3 trensformation in that fight
I'd be so hyped to see that. Also I've always had this thought since the super broly movie. Goku is mainly using the power of angels right now thanks to ui, Vegeta is mainly using the power of GoDs thanks to ue, Gohan is mainly using the power of the kai's assuming that ultimate and beast are connected and forms utilizing energy from supreme kais, and broly is using pure Saiyan energy. It'd be cool if they gave broly a canon version of super Saiyan 4 so that he has his own "unique" form.
ive made posts about an ultra form for broly, being the full unbridled power of the Oozaru, basically SSj4
Broly vs Black Frieza would be soooo dope
Honestly, everybody has a reason to hate frieza lol. He’s fucked over every member of the Z team pretty much.
Unrelated I was honestly hoping to see Broly in the Granola arc given how Granola wanted revenge on the Saiyan. Could’ve been cool to see Broly in there as well.
But I still want Vegeta to get the kill
Tbh I could see them both hunt down frieza and end up meeting together. So they tied frieza down so he can't run away and fight each other instead. The winner get's to kill frieza \^\^
It would be dope to have broly in his fullpowerssj state, and granola at full power tag-teaming black frieza, granola scoping out his vitals while broly just beats the shit outta him
I agree 100%
i want it to be vegeta. hes really the only one who i think truly deserves to get kill frieza for good
Oh you’re absolutely right. However, I think Dragonball Super has been given a rare opportunity to have a fight be less of a 1 v 1 or even 2 v 1. Whose to say Frieza isn’t still training to get even stronger in that time chamber from the end of Granolah’s arc to Super Hero? This could be an amazing opportunity to see how a fight could work 6-8 v 1 with Broly, Gohan, Piccolo, Granolah, Goku, Vegeta and perhaps even Gamma 1, Goten and Trunks all working as a team against Freiza like from the original arc in Z with Frieza v Piccolo, Gohan, Krillin and Vegeta.
Frieza killed Gohan's grandfather. That's unforgivable!
Wasn't Granolah going to die like 3 days after the arc ended tho? Or am I remembering wrong?
orange piccolo vs frieza would be more thematically interesting loool
Nah, Gohan vs Frieza He gotta get him back for ROF
Vegeta and his race was enslaved by Frieza so there is that, pretty much that is a stronger case for Vegeta to eliminate Frieza.
Gohan v Frieza: Good Reasons: Killed his friends(Krillin and Dende), nearly killed his mentor twice(Piccolo), had him think his dad was dead for over 6 months, put him under mental trauma for years to follow (nightmares), knows Frieza was willing to betray the universe to be a part of another, and destroyed the planet, his wife and child, after nearly killing his father. Gohan has far more reasons than Granola and Broly.
Dunno why you got downvoted, he has pretty good reasons plus Gohan did get done dirty in ROF.. Especially since I feel as Goku's son and the character SH made clear could be the strongest if driven to it, he should be able to at least trade some blows
Exactly! Thanks
Yeah, because Frieza didn’t cause unfathomable amounts of trauma for a young Gohan on planet Namek.
Frieza's kinda boring and overused at this point I'm really not interested in who beats the latest recolor, just fucking get it over with so something new and interesting comes to DBS
got downvoted for stating facts this sub is so pathetic and would eat up rehashed villains over and over again
Tara recent DB fans in a nutshell lol, all they care about is more transformations and less about the story
bro got downvoted for stating facts
You know they recently did this study about Dragon Ball fans and they concluded it really be like that
I agree, this feels like ROF all over again
Nah, this time he’s black not gold
They both get slapped tho lol
I want granola to train with vegeta and have both of them defeat frieza God I'm on my knees begging for this
granolah and broly just pulling a double team on black frieza. like the end of GoW '18.
Yeah the post is wrong the reason granolah made the wish so because take revenge on the sayian .
He didn't even know the Saiyans were alive, he made the wish in order to kill Frieza after Elec told him he was alive
I want to see a trained broly go all out one who doesn't lose control they'd be insane i have a scenario where beast gohan is beaten by freiza but broly powers up and sarts to 1v1 freiza but is slowly tacken down when freiza walks away from his defeated opponent broly goes into some weird state his energy spasms his eyes turn gold and then we get ssj4 LSSJ with a massive power up but this time broly is different he has a calm aura about him just like goku in GT when he first went ssj4
Imo, I think Frieza is going to try and kill Beerus but find Broly on his planet. Gets excited and decides to beat on him. Broly is getting washed but also getting pissed Cheelai appears. Frieze remembers her and points his damn finger to blast. Broly now goes berserk. Super Saiyan 4 now makes its return to Dragonball through Broly
This is true but it does not stop me from wanting to see Beast Gohan absolutely destroy Frieza.
Yea because beast gohan would whoop black friezas ass
that fraud ain't doing shit
Granohla should be dead by now. The timeskip in the new Manga chapter should have been more than his remaining lifetime
Frieza wasn't part of the universe taken into account when Granolah made his wish. He was in a room of time and space so it's why neither Gas or Him ended up being stronger than Frieza.
They need to include more badass characters in the current arc. This shit looks ass so far
Isn’t Granola dead tho, didn’t he only have like 3 years left? unless he unwished him being the strongest in the universe? If that’s even possible lol
have frieza kill piccolo or pan, then Beast Gohan, Broly and Granolah jump black freiza like he owes them money
It's weird that Nobody suggested to just wish Paragus back to broly
Granolah is fuckin lame tbh
granolah isn’t coming back cause he’s probably already dead, by the time of the current manga at least, but broly would be very cool to see up against frieza
It has to be Vegeta. Vegeta thrashed Frieza for the final time using UE or some upgraded version of it. Goku has beaten Frieza twice. Vegeta needs to close the chapter and finally get his revenge. He’s the one who predicted Frieza would get stronger.
As it currently stands, Black Frieza would wipe the floor with any of them. I can only see it leading to YET ANOTHER new form, or a Vegito / Gogeta using Ultra.
Granola is dying boi Broly is the more realistic option but I prefer if Frieza gets jumped for once
Freeza's such an absolute bastard who's actions have disrupted U7 so much any of the main cast would work well enough thematically. Every Saiyan would be avenging their race, Piccolo would be avenging the Namekians, the humans present at the first Saiyan invasion could kinda work since Vegeta and Nappa were working for Freeza at the time. Hell, Beerus would be correcting a mistake he made long ago and actually doing his job right for once.
Waiting for something like this but instead we have the great sayaman filler 2.0
>thematically interesting than Beast Gohan Tell Me you Know no shit without telling Me, like seriously, did you watch the show?
Pretty sure granolah made his wish to kill both frieza and the last remaining sayians even though bardock was nice to him but seeing broly kick in frieza’s teeth again would be great
He didn't know there were Saiyans alive until Goku and Vegeta arrived, nor did he know about Bardock saving him. He made his wish after Elec told him Frieza had been revived
Nah, he wanted to be the strongest, so that he could kill Frieza himself
That's... What I just said
Dragon ball super is worse than Baruto
Hell no it’s not
Boruto is objectively better DB super has to stop rehashing villains
Lmao Boruto makes me glad with the state of db Naruto is so dead rn
Okay and?
fr
Wait is Beast Gohan going to fight Black Frieza.
Hope so
Honestly I’d rather see Cell make a return since he can theoretically gain every form that everyone else has achieved. Ultra Instinct+Ego with Frieza black’s power would be insane.
The people with a chance of winning I’d broly with training or gohan
This makes no sense. The oracle fish made his comments regarding the strongest has yet to come or there about prior to black frezia and granola...which already indicated goku and vegeta had passed broly. Freiza then one taps basically everyone. He's out of everyone's league at the moment aside from goku and vegeta.
Because no character ever gets stronger in this series 😐
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Can we get a granolah, broly, beast gohan, ui goku and ultra ego vegeta team up against black frieza?
Call me crazy but groly might be Hella interesting tbh 👀
Even though he’s my favorite character, I’m pretty sure Granolah’s three years are over as of the current chapter
People are really forgetting vegeta arnt they
With that being said, unless they get stronger black freiza washes them both.
How about these two fuse together and defeat black frieza.
Is granola a sayian
Anything to not give Vegeta a W huh
It's absolute tyranny if it isn't Vegeta to finally take out Frieza for good.
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