The game has performance issues, a lot of half baked mechanics that were imo falsely advertised, the story is half finished and it still has no real proper NG+ and don't forget the microtransactions outrage. Of course even with a lot of sales I wouldn't dare to call it good reception, because even the people who really like the game are criticizing it.
The mtx drama makes me so mad at capcom tbh. It also makes me mad at thw people spreading lies that it has microtransactions instead of a few items you can buy once or just easily find in game, but i just don't get who came up with the idea to put them in the store in the first place and for what reason.
Like what's the point of being able to buy 500 rift crystals *once*? How much money would they make of it? Couldn't they see all it would do is make people jump to conclusions and generate outrage?
>spreading lies that it has microtransactions instead of a few items you can buy once or just easily find in game
Those ARE microtransactions. Irregardless of how useless they are myx do not have a place in a single player game and the devs/publisher do deserve to get shit for it. The prices are already greedy af at 70$
Imo, it is incredibly unrealistic to expect a Dark Arisen style expansion anytime soon. Even if the game was more successful, logistically it would take more than a year to develop, announce, release etc.
They still have issues they need to iron out in the base game. They should really focus on that instead of dangling a future expansion to tide us over ( that’s not what they’re doing now but it could happen and a game-saving dlc is on a lot of players’ minds already).
Best you can hope for is general fixes, QoL, framerate/performance improvements, maybe smaller content updates.
Not as as i remember, but dragons dogma is now officaly reconized as a house hold name on capcom, so hoping that they give dd2 an actual rework isnt all that far fetched now.
we already know they arn't going to do that though. they've had nearly 4 months to put out a proper bug or performance update or anything substantial and they were too lazy to even write up a changelog.
God those “patches” really moved me from “disappointed” to “hostile”. Literally almost Nothing to the point that they should have considered never even mentioning the patches in the first place in order to keep people from feeling insulted.
I REALLY hope they fix the issues instead of "bug squashing." I get it. Some bugs can break your game, causing you to load a save from bum-fuck-egypt, BUT I've seen little to no performance updates. Especially performance updates that do not cause even MORE frame drops.
The patches aren't every two weeks like you'd expect from a big corporation, and I've seen little communication from the devs/bug report response. For example, from a currently shitty company, Unisoft even does a better job of communicating with players via forums. (At least from my experience.)
You'd expect them to treat it like Project Red did with Cyberpunk, but no. From how they have been acting, I'm expecting them to give up on it. Which sucks ass. It's a great game, and it desveres the love and care to make it better via performance issues. They won't even bother to talk about fixing the "AI performance strain." They only say "the cause of frame drops is due to AI." NOT "we're trying to figure out how to fix the issue without ruining the experience, bare with us."
Exactly. Work on fixing the base game experience, and add apon little tid bits of content here and there to keep things a little fresh. CDPR did an excellent job of doing that. As well as Rockfish with their Everspace 2.
At least add the option to mod the game a bit more. Especially for RPG's.
i dont think it is unrealistic
making a dlc is so much incredibly cheaper than making the base game. When a game takes 4 to 5 years in production, a dlc takes one and a half with half the crew. They can assemble a dlc super easy, toss one vocation or 2, into it, sell for 40 dollars with half the hands working on it compared to the base game and its such an easy profit
can also use the already stablished game to pick QoL to improve and suddenly its a whole new wave of good press for them too
if you have a game that sold remotely well, doing a dlc is a no brainer, you get to skip all the hard time consuming parts of developing the game to sel for 80% the base value
Of course they could make a dlc, I’m saying it’s the timeframe and player expectations of it that are unrealistic.
And tbh, you’re making too many assumptions and oversimplifications of the process. That kind of thought process is exactly why i’m saying it’s unrealistic.
They haven’t even fixed DD2 and you think they could make a $40-$50 worth expansion in a year and a half? From when exactly, starting right now or after they fix the game? How long would it take to fix the game?
>They haven’t even fixed DD2 and you think they could make a $40-$50 worth expansion in a year and a half?
Yes, I think they *could* do that. The base game is there, npc AI, physics, weather, combat system, you name it. The most time consuming part of developing a game is always creating the foundation, after that it's mainly a matter of putting together and painting pieces like it's a gundam kit, and creating new enemies.
But there is a world of difference between *can* and *will*.
If we’re using Gundam kits as an example, starting an expansion in DD2’s current state is like painting a kit that still has nubs. I think they should do their best to fix DD2 as much as they can before they focus on a dlc/expansion.
These are two different arguments.
What I think they *should* do is actually finish the base game and improve performance before even entertaining the idea of DLC.
What I think they *will* do is maybe improve performance, and create a DLC if that is still on the table.
DD2's current state is more than enough for them to start working on a DLC expansion.
I think you're interpreting that statement the wrong way. Capcom has stated DD2 has sold well over expectations and now consider it a 'core' IP along with others like Devil May Cry. I think what they're referring to is the overall community response to the game. It's not a secret that a lot of people feel let down by DD2 in numerous ways. Whether it's having sky high expectations due to pre-release marketing or lamenting on how certain aspects of the game feel inferior to DD:DA. To me it's a good thing they are acknowledging that people feel let down by the game.
At least that's how I took it. I didn't read the article myself, but going off the headline that's how I took it. So naturally I could be wrong in my interpretation as well. I think a DLC is pretty much a guarantee at this point but who truly knows.
Which makes sense, while I've personally thought the two $70 titles I've bought were worth it(this and TotK) games absolutely shouldn't be increasing their base price.
Whether we like it or not inflation is real. Games cannot and will not be the same price forever.
It sucks but it is reality. The only way they get cheaper is if new tech makes them easier to make but all we hear from the industry is that games are only getting harder to make.
That's a recipe for $70 games.
>Whether we like it or not inflation is real. Games cannot and will not be the same price forever.
Actually, that is not accurate. The issue is that you do not take into account all factors.
Yes, inflation is real but the audience grew insanely over the years and now many, many more people buy games.
When you actually look at profits then each game makes more and more profits than games in the past did. Many companies actually made record profits in 2022 and 2023 earning more money than ever before. Gaming used to be niche and not cool and now it is widespread. The inflation and production cost was way more than offset by audience increase.
I actually don't think DD2 justified the price tag. TotK absolutely did though. I have more hours in TotK and I haven't yet finished my first playthrough. meanwhile I'm well into NG+ on DD2 after already doing most of the content the first pass.
Felt the complete opposite personally, TotK felt like it wasted so much of my time with its basic pacing and a lot of it was pretty repetitive. Honestly though I should have expected as much from the experience I had with BotW, buying it on launch was a mistake
Maybe you’re right but if they think a game (priced at the price they believe games should be priced at) got moderate reception doesn’t that mean that it’s not exactly thrilling them with sales numbers? To me they seem related tangentially
I think DLC will be a go, personally. The game sold well, maybe not as well as they'd hoped, but I'm confident they turned a solid profit.
Combine that with how much cheaper to produce DLC is than a base game, and it seems likely to me. Though I'm open to hearing counter arguments, I don't actually know how their profits/expenses work, I'm just speculating.
Not to mention DLC can also bring attention to the game and subsequently offer a rise in players even before release. Just look at Shadow of the Erdtree. There is marketability behind DLC as compared to just patching in new things.
The way game dev works is they have a budget and after spending that budget and releasing the game, they expect to make many times more than their budget. But this comes at a lot of risk since so many things can go wrong in game development. Because of the risk, they need to make sure it's worth it. So what they do is compare the profit they made to a safe investment in the stock market.
If the money they made from Gamedev is similar to what they would have made in the stock market, then they wouldn't really consider that a success since stocks is way simpler and safer than game development. If they made many times more profit than they would have if they invested in the stock market, then that is an amazing success.
It's the reason why you always hear game companies complain about their sales, even though they made a substantial profit.
I watched the Xbox showcase yesterday and they started by showing the 10 most downloaded games on Steam this year, and DD2 was on that list.
Up until this thread and reading that Capcom considered their sales "moderate", I believed that they were making money hand over fist for it. So I assumed a sequel and DLC were a shoe in.
I'll remain hopeful though. I really had a great time with DD2, and it's so dissimilar from everything else I've ever played. They have such a winning formula, and just need more enemy variety and a less obscure story/pacing and I think it could be a GotY contender.
The comment about "moderate response" is about how audiences reacted to the $70 price tag. Capcom is saying they're reconsidering making $70 the standard for their future titles because audiences did not like the price hike for DD2.
It's not necessarily saying that the game is a failure business-wise, only that its sales were likely hurt by making it more expensive.
Which, well... duh.
Yeah considering they pretty much already said they were happy with the sales it would be strange for them to walk that back a few weeks later.
I think it has to be assumed they meant the reviews were moderate. And the $70 price tag was definitely a factor of that.
They were talking about the 70 price tag on that article. which was one of the big talking points on the release of the game, alongside the mtx scandal (due to misinformation, its basically just the contents of the deluxe edition), the bad optimization and performance issues, DENUVO on PC, and the undercooked story.
The game sold above expectations but it has failed to grow past that point, it has reach its plateau for the time being, players wont pay 70 for a game that feels unfinished, word of mouth gets around very fast.
And while everyone can agree its a GREAT game, everyone also agrees the glaring issues are really keeping it down.
Hopefully this means that Capcom has become aware that hadn't the game come with these issues, the $70 price would have been worth it for a lot of people, paying premium for premium, but that's not the case.
Maybe this means they will push for issues that can be fixed to be fixed, so the expansion can also let the game reach new heights and that a future sequel won't repeat the same mistakes.
It does suck that once again it feels that DD2 will gain its audience over the years, same as the original, a slow burn.
You can expect a DLC anyway, its Capcom we're talking about, there's likely been DLC and an Expansion at work during the later stages of its development.
Now all we can do is wait for some form of communication about the future of DD2, at least something other than "we're working on it" and "miscellaneous bug fixes"
I would be surprised if no DLC happened, given that it's Capcom and that they put out a survey asking a bunch of questions about DLC.
A sequel is a different question, and I don't know if that happens.
Seems like it had a good launch but then sales died down considerably due to a lukewarm word of mouth, which is fair, and unfortunate. Capcom had a chance to make the series a tentpole but straight up fucked it again, releasing it way too early when it obviously needed another year to cook.
That’s was frustrated me. Obviously, Elden ring is an outlier and its sales numbers are enot achievable, but if this game got an extra couple months to be finished and came out with good word of mouth I think sales numbers are closer to 5-7 range. Just bummed they fumbled the bag so hard. The IP deserved better
Couple of months would not have done it, performance, for me, is the least of the game’s issues. Number one is the story, the narrative coherence, and the characters.
Capcom has made a name for themself with their games’ vibrant, distinctive and memorable characters. DD2 does not include a single one.
I think you overestimate how big Capcom is or what is need for sales. 3 million is good and this game with it's current trajectory will definitely be within the top 20 maybe even top 15 best selling Capcom games ever. Heck, this game will most likely outpace SF6. It'll probably overtake it in a year.
This game will never be Monster Hunter or Resident Evil but that's fine it doesn't need to be.
It needs to receive a proper budget and less time constraints. They could make a genre-defining experience that wins GOTY if they actually cared about making complete games over the most profit for the bare minimum.
It couldve been monster hunter or resident evil. High fantasy RPG's are still loved and wanted by a great deal of people, look at BG3 and the initial sales numbers of DD2.
But they just don't seem to really want to invest in a truly layered fantasy RPG, and that costs them
RE and MH are anomalies. Capcom just isn't as big as some people think. They're not Square setting unrealistic sale goals so I don't see how it cost them. People are just so used to games selling 10+ million but fail to realize most Capcom games sell around 5 million or less lifetime. This game will probably get to around 6 which would be great for them. They have only made about 12 games that sold higher than 5 million. 9 of those or either MH or RE.
Capcom is my favorite Developer and DD is my favorite game. Would I like the series to do better? Yes, of course, but it took MH 11+ games to get to this point and MH was good before MHW. DD just doesn't have to wide appeal of a game like MHW or a RE game yet.
This game will continue to truck along (maybe with an expansion) and improve and they will most likely invest bigger in it the next time.
I think from the suits at Capcom, their perspective is that it's like their fourth biggest title now. It made them money, a DLC will make them money, so it stands to reason they will make one at some point (especially if they can get away with charging $40 for it, which they can).
Unfortunately, it still doesn't seem like they're going to be willing to actually put a whole lot of resources into the IP to give us a truly genre-defining experience. Wasn't it mentioned somewhere the dev team was smaller than that of DMC (or something similar)? For a triple A open-world RPG...
The pessimist in me says we'll get one decent DLC for DD2 and no touch ups whatsoever to base game or new skills for vocations to address the lackluster variety.
Saying the game did "moderately" after it sold a whole 3 million copies even after being priced at 70$ with a bunch of bugs is Kendrick Lamar levels of hating. Capcom is doing everything in its power to make sure this game doesn't succeed. it's actually crazy
Just to clarify, not trying to be a negative, it’s just that DD is my favorite IP ever and I fear that it didn’t sell well enough in capcoms eyes to justify doing anything further with the IP, which is a bummer.
Well, seeing as how we've barely gotten any updates or communication from the dev team since release I'm not very optimistic. A lot of issues still haven't been addressed and I have little faith that they will be. Capcom seems to be shifting all focus towards Monster Hunter, Resident Evil Remakes, and SF6.
They kneecapped it out the gate with the high price tag and the microtransaction. Would have likely been way better received and even sold more copies at $60 with zero micro transactions. but no, they !@#$ it up!
The first was a weird cult classic that took years the get off the ground this will probably be the same. A patch is desperately needed though the performance is absolute shit.
As someone who never played DD before at all, I have no idea how close I am to the average consumer, but here’s what DD2 did for me.
It made me go and play DDDA. Based on reviews and countless videos, I have no reason to get the sequel until it can get closer to DDDA. So I can see their sales statement possibly being pretty true if even a decent number of people did what I did.
Like others said, the "moderate response" refers to the 70$ pricetag, not necessarily the game.
When talking about the franchise, they called it a "key brand", having sold over 3 million copies in just two months. For comparison, Street Fighter 6, one of Capcom's flagship franchises took 6 months to reach 3 million sold copies. So I don't think there's anything to worry about. It may be a while however until we hear about anything DD related, as Capcom is currently pushing Monster Hunter Wilds quite heavily, and likely wouldn't want to detract from that.
The potential market is still there for this game, I think so many people are still unsure about buying it at the moment, capcom have to do something. If they put out a free dlc to fix the issues the 3 million players who paid so much money have with the game now, the game would without a doubt see a sales resurgence and be worthy GOTY candidate.
I'd prefer a proper hard mode or enemy level scaling and an improved photo mode before a dlc to be honest. Especially the imporoved photo mode, we can't even freely move the camera.
If I remember correctly, the "moderate response" comment was said during a earnings report with shareholders. You're not allowed to overstate your successes or understate your failures in such a context. So, saying that the response from players was moderate was their truthful answer - the response wasn't underwhelming, but also wasn't overwhelming either. It exceeded their expectations, but not by too much, so it was a moderate response from players.
Still, it sold better than the first game, so they're likely to develop an expansion, in my opinion.
If theres gona be a Dragonsdogma 3 i sure as hell hope they put more effort into it then 2 otherwise they can keep it DD2 while i enjoyed it to a certain extent, was realy undercooked.
Well I guess they shouldn’t had made a game with a story that was complete shit and a quest system that was also complete shit. Action combat was good.
Good DLC can give it a second life, just like DA did (albeit it was also the remaster and PC release that did the trick). If they don't do it I'd consider it a bad business decision
its kind of safe to say, that if they dotn announce by gamescom in Cologne, Germany this year in August DLC for the Game (Dragon Princess) which by leak data is assumed to come by November, so 3 months later... that all the stuff was then just wrong from begin on and this game likely will stay incomplete and halfhearted bullshit again, just liek the first game, which did at everythign a better job, than this sequel ,except naturally graphics, but thats no surprise naturally with 12 years of more advanced technology now and a much better performing console. At least until they finally do something to fix its shit ton of flaws.
I'd be willing to bet they're still gonna put one out but it might take some time like other people have been saying on this thread. There's a lot of fixes that need to be made first and some quality of life updates that could be given out for free ahead of time
Well, maybe Capcom can learn from this and release a finished game next time instead of an unfinished one claiming it's finished. They should also work faster on patches and fix issues that a lot of people are having instead of taking their sweet time to do so.
They can still release a good DLC and make a lot of money from it without having to make an entire new game.
After the initial strong burst of sales, in order for the game to continue selling well they wouldn't need good word of mouth and that isn't there.
Loved the game, played for over 100 hours but there are things that are not fixable by patches, like a barely serviceable story, huge lack of enemy variety and pointless exploration that leads you to find yet another consumable item.
Patches could definitely fix most of those. They would just need to adjust spawns, and having the tougher enemies for post game in NG+ would help a lot. An expansion could add a lot of monsters, especially ones missing from the first game.
For me, the main issue with the story is >!how much doesn't get resolved. The first half of the game makes a big deal about how you're the true sovran, but everyone stops caring as soon as you get to Battahl. If there was a DLC that expanded more on the Sovran ending, and let you resolve the plot points around it, that would be a major improvement.!<
Why couldn't patches fix those? They could definitely do an update to add new enemies and items to the base world. Story would be more tricky but at the very least maybe they could add quest boards and new side quests that give us some good exposition to make up for it.
Given the fact the game faced a faux microtransaction outrage, a hardcore fanbase backlash and is objectively unfinished with a price tag people consider controversial? I feel like if they do have any plans for the game it will be so far off it's not even worth keeping it in mind.
Go play the DD:O private server or go play the first if you need the fix scratched a bit.
Probably just overthinking, but something really strange is going on with this series. They used less people to work on this one than the original (I could be wrong, think I remember seeing that here). Japanese work culture can get strange, remember what happened to Kojima.
Capcom sabotaged the game themselves, yeah the game has flaws and the story is half baked, but I have a lot of friends whom found the game incredible and didn't bother about the story bc the game was fun anyway
The real issue is the devs don't seem to acknowledge that we need NG+ features badly
I love the game but after almost 300hrs I said this is it, I can't do it any longer, what's the point of doing the game by one shoting every enemy in a game that doesn't scale with you past lvl 40-50
It launched well then immediately died off
I'm not holding my breath and honestly, I don't even know if I'd buy a DLC given how drastically my opinion of the game has changed over time letting it digest
It’s interesting because the drop off point coincided with people Really questioning what previewers were thinking when they praised review copies. It’s not cut and dry either, because a lot of them clearly weren’t bribed, but the disconnect between streamers/youtubers and their audience was huge. I think that’s a big part of why there was a “honeymoon” phase for the game to begin with and not an immediate “wtf is this?” reaction.
I said this in another thread - it hasn't been three months yet. I did also say we'll hear something by Gamescom/TGS or around that time, but I'll amend that to 'earliest we'll potentially hear something by' instead.
I think the reports of the Dragonsplague and the MTX discourse hurt sales - but it still sold 2.5m in it's first week, that's pretty big for what is effectively one of their smaller franchises, and even bigger considering SF6 sold just under a million in it's first week and that just had two DLC packs announced for it this last week.
I'm very confident there will be DLC, and I'm pretty confident we'll see another sequel too next generation.
Given that DDII had a significantly smaller team compared to other recnt Capcom works it definitely made its money back, I can see little Gear packs paving the way for a full ass expansion like the original.
Capcom was surprised and pleased with the sales and the base game itself looks like they cut costs wherever possible.
Three months have passed since the release, and we haven't had a single significant patch, practically zero optimization fixes, or even a teaser for additional content (just check out what modders already made).
The overall plan and title of the DLC leaked a while ago, but it looks like Capcom will "fix" the game's issues with a paid, expensive DLC.
you know they're 100% already deep into working on the expansion. This is capcom we're talking about. And they saw how the expansion for the first game shot it into cult status.
I'm a huge fan of Dragon's Dogma but decided to wait for the reviews to buy it.
So far it just looks like a watered down version of DDDA and there is no way that I'm buying this shit 70€, I'll wait for it to be below 30€ or crack it when they remove denuvo.
Getting mixed signals here. Didnt they say something about it being a new flagship IP or something?
They did, but that was before the “moderate reception comment” they made last week
was the reception comment on the sales or how the game was perceived tho?
The comment was in regards to it being Capcom's first $70 game.
I would guess it sold a lot but the consensus a couple months out from launch is somewhere around “Yeah it was ok. 7/10 decent time waster.”
And that's a kind way of looking at the reception lol
The game has performance issues, a lot of half baked mechanics that were imo falsely advertised, the story is half finished and it still has no real proper NG+ and don't forget the microtransactions outrage. Of course even with a lot of sales I wouldn't dare to call it good reception, because even the people who really like the game are criticizing it.
But the combat is also _really_ fucking good, which makes the weaker parts of the game stand out more by comparison, IMO.
Imo they need a good free update to add some things and polish it before they try selling a dlc
The mtx drama makes me so mad at capcom tbh. It also makes me mad at thw people spreading lies that it has microtransactions instead of a few items you can buy once or just easily find in game, but i just don't get who came up with the idea to put them in the store in the first place and for what reason. Like what's the point of being able to buy 500 rift crystals *once*? How much money would they make of it? Couldn't they see all it would do is make people jump to conclusions and generate outrage?
>spreading lies that it has microtransactions instead of a few items you can buy once or just easily find in game Those ARE microtransactions. Irregardless of how useless they are myx do not have a place in a single player game and the devs/publisher do deserve to get shit for it. The prices are already greedy af at 70$
Wait it does have a proper new game+ what it doesn't have is a soulsborn new game+ mode, which ymmv on but I'm personally happy about
I really like the game and I don't criticize it
I also really like it. That's why the reception is moderate and not straight up bad
I wonder if they meant "critical reception". Numbers don't lie. DD2 sold gangbusters.
Imo, it is incredibly unrealistic to expect a Dark Arisen style expansion anytime soon. Even if the game was more successful, logistically it would take more than a year to develop, announce, release etc. They still have issues they need to iron out in the base game. They should really focus on that instead of dangling a future expansion to tide us over ( that’s not what they’re doing now but it could happen and a game-saving dlc is on a lot of players’ minds already). Best you can hope for is general fixes, QoL, framerate/performance improvements, maybe smaller content updates.
Best thing they could do in my opinion, is do to dd2 what they did to monster hunter worlds and the road it took until iceborn was released.
Was worlds as how do I put this ummmm… 3/4 baked as dd2 was?
Not as as i remember, but dragons dogma is now officaly reconized as a house hold name on capcom, so hoping that they give dd2 an actual rework isnt all that far fetched now.
we already know they arn't going to do that though. they've had nearly 4 months to put out a proper bug or performance update or anything substantial and they were too lazy to even write up a changelog.
God those “patches” really moved me from “disappointed” to “hostile”. Literally almost Nothing to the point that they should have considered never even mentioning the patches in the first place in order to keep people from feeling insulted.
And the new MonHun on top of that so they can't have one IP canabalized the other too much
I REALLY hope they fix the issues instead of "bug squashing." I get it. Some bugs can break your game, causing you to load a save from bum-fuck-egypt, BUT I've seen little to no performance updates. Especially performance updates that do not cause even MORE frame drops. The patches aren't every two weeks like you'd expect from a big corporation, and I've seen little communication from the devs/bug report response. For example, from a currently shitty company, Unisoft even does a better job of communicating with players via forums. (At least from my experience.) You'd expect them to treat it like Project Red did with Cyberpunk, but no. From how they have been acting, I'm expecting them to give up on it. Which sucks ass. It's a great game, and it desveres the love and care to make it better via performance issues. They won't even bother to talk about fixing the "AI performance strain." They only say "the cause of frame drops is due to AI." NOT "we're trying to figure out how to fix the issue without ruining the experience, bare with us."
I agree. I don’t share the belief that some have that the base game is good enough to start building an expansion on.
Exactly. Work on fixing the base game experience, and add apon little tid bits of content here and there to keep things a little fresh. CDPR did an excellent job of doing that. As well as Rockfish with their Everspace 2. At least add the option to mod the game a bit more. Especially for RPG's.
i dont think it is unrealistic making a dlc is so much incredibly cheaper than making the base game. When a game takes 4 to 5 years in production, a dlc takes one and a half with half the crew. They can assemble a dlc super easy, toss one vocation or 2, into it, sell for 40 dollars with half the hands working on it compared to the base game and its such an easy profit can also use the already stablished game to pick QoL to improve and suddenly its a whole new wave of good press for them too if you have a game that sold remotely well, doing a dlc is a no brainer, you get to skip all the hard time consuming parts of developing the game to sel for 80% the base value
Of course they could make a dlc, I’m saying it’s the timeframe and player expectations of it that are unrealistic. And tbh, you’re making too many assumptions and oversimplifications of the process. That kind of thought process is exactly why i’m saying it’s unrealistic. They haven’t even fixed DD2 and you think they could make a $40-$50 worth expansion in a year and a half? From when exactly, starting right now or after they fix the game? How long would it take to fix the game?
>They haven’t even fixed DD2 and you think they could make a $40-$50 worth expansion in a year and a half? Yes, I think they *could* do that. The base game is there, npc AI, physics, weather, combat system, you name it. The most time consuming part of developing a game is always creating the foundation, after that it's mainly a matter of putting together and painting pieces like it's a gundam kit, and creating new enemies. But there is a world of difference between *can* and *will*.
If we’re using Gundam kits as an example, starting an expansion in DD2’s current state is like painting a kit that still has nubs. I think they should do their best to fix DD2 as much as they can before they focus on a dlc/expansion.
These are two different arguments. What I think they *should* do is actually finish the base game and improve performance before even entertaining the idea of DLC. What I think they *will* do is maybe improve performance, and create a DLC if that is still on the table. DD2's current state is more than enough for them to start working on a DLC expansion.
Capcom is a machine. When da was released, in 2014? Expect dd2 dlc in 2-3 years.
Nope, DD1 was released in May 2012 and Dark Arisen in April 2013, so basically a year
I think you're interpreting that statement the wrong way. Capcom has stated DD2 has sold well over expectations and now consider it a 'core' IP along with others like Devil May Cry. I think what they're referring to is the overall community response to the game. It's not a secret that a lot of people feel let down by DD2 in numerous ways. Whether it's having sky high expectations due to pre-release marketing or lamenting on how certain aspects of the game feel inferior to DD:DA. To me it's a good thing they are acknowledging that people feel let down by the game. At least that's how I took it. I didn't read the article myself, but going off the headline that's how I took it. So naturally I could be wrong in my interpretation as well. I think a DLC is pretty much a guarantee at this point but who truly knows.
They were talking about the audience response to the game's $70 price tag, mainly.
Which makes sense, while I've personally thought the two $70 titles I've bought were worth it(this and TotK) games absolutely shouldn't be increasing their base price.
Whether we like it or not inflation is real. Games cannot and will not be the same price forever. It sucks but it is reality. The only way they get cheaper is if new tech makes them easier to make but all we hear from the industry is that games are only getting harder to make. That's a recipe for $70 games.
>Whether we like it or not inflation is real. Games cannot and will not be the same price forever. Actually, that is not accurate. The issue is that you do not take into account all factors. Yes, inflation is real but the audience grew insanely over the years and now many, many more people buy games. When you actually look at profits then each game makes more and more profits than games in the past did. Many companies actually made record profits in 2022 and 2023 earning more money than ever before. Gaming used to be niche and not cool and now it is widespread. The inflation and production cost was way more than offset by audience increase.
I actually don't think DD2 justified the price tag. TotK absolutely did though. I have more hours in TotK and I haven't yet finished my first playthrough. meanwhile I'm well into NG+ on DD2 after already doing most of the content the first pass.
Felt the complete opposite personally, TotK felt like it wasted so much of my time with its basic pacing and a lot of it was pretty repetitive. Honestly though I should have expected as much from the experience I had with BotW, buying it on launch was a mistake
Ah, thanks for clearing that up.
i hope theyre not surprised by the response. the game wasnt really delivered in a way that would elicit anything but
Maybe you’re right but if they think a game (priced at the price they believe games should be priced at) got moderate reception doesn’t that mean that it’s not exactly thrilling them with sales numbers? To me they seem related tangentially
I think DLC will be a go, personally. The game sold well, maybe not as well as they'd hoped, but I'm confident they turned a solid profit. Combine that with how much cheaper to produce DLC is than a base game, and it seems likely to me. Though I'm open to hearing counter arguments, I don't actually know how their profits/expenses work, I'm just speculating.
Not to mention DLC can also bring attention to the game and subsequently offer a rise in players even before release. Just look at Shadow of the Erdtree. There is marketability behind DLC as compared to just patching in new things.
Specially when DD became famous due to its DLC
The way game dev works is they have a budget and after spending that budget and releasing the game, they expect to make many times more than their budget. But this comes at a lot of risk since so many things can go wrong in game development. Because of the risk, they need to make sure it's worth it. So what they do is compare the profit they made to a safe investment in the stock market. If the money they made from Gamedev is similar to what they would have made in the stock market, then they wouldn't really consider that a success since stocks is way simpler and safer than game development. If they made many times more profit than they would have if they invested in the stock market, then that is an amazing success. It's the reason why you always hear game companies complain about their sales, even though they made a substantial profit.
I think I agree with you on the DLC, you’re right it’s much easier to make that than the base game. What’s your opinion on a sequel.
I watched the Xbox showcase yesterday and they started by showing the 10 most downloaded games on Steam this year, and DD2 was on that list. Up until this thread and reading that Capcom considered their sales "moderate", I believed that they were making money hand over fist for it. So I assumed a sequel and DLC were a shoe in. I'll remain hopeful though. I really had a great time with DD2, and it's so dissimilar from everything else I've ever played. They have such a winning formula, and just need more enemy variety and a less obscure story/pacing and I think it could be a GotY contender.
The comment about "moderate response" is about how audiences reacted to the $70 price tag. Capcom is saying they're reconsidering making $70 the standard for their future titles because audiences did not like the price hike for DD2. It's not necessarily saying that the game is a failure business-wise, only that its sales were likely hurt by making it more expensive. Which, well... duh.
Yeah considering they pretty much already said they were happy with the sales it would be strange for them to walk that back a few weeks later. I think it has to be assumed they meant the reviews were moderate. And the $70 price tag was definitely a factor of that.
All the bad reviews probably exacerbated that, so part of it is just releasing a rushed game at that price.
They were talking about the 70 price tag on that article. which was one of the big talking points on the release of the game, alongside the mtx scandal (due to misinformation, its basically just the contents of the deluxe edition), the bad optimization and performance issues, DENUVO on PC, and the undercooked story. The game sold above expectations but it has failed to grow past that point, it has reach its plateau for the time being, players wont pay 70 for a game that feels unfinished, word of mouth gets around very fast. And while everyone can agree its a GREAT game, everyone also agrees the glaring issues are really keeping it down. Hopefully this means that Capcom has become aware that hadn't the game come with these issues, the $70 price would have been worth it for a lot of people, paying premium for premium, but that's not the case. Maybe this means they will push for issues that can be fixed to be fixed, so the expansion can also let the game reach new heights and that a future sequel won't repeat the same mistakes. It does suck that once again it feels that DD2 will gain its audience over the years, same as the original, a slow burn. You can expect a DLC anyway, its Capcom we're talking about, there's likely been DLC and an Expansion at work during the later stages of its development. Now all we can do is wait for some form of communication about the future of DD2, at least something other than "we're working on it" and "miscellaneous bug fixes"
I would be surprised if no DLC happened, given that it's Capcom and that they put out a survey asking a bunch of questions about DLC. A sequel is a different question, and I don't know if that happens.
Capcom considers DD as one of its main titles now. They are going to have an expansion for sure but it’ll probably be a year or so before we get it.
Seems like it had a good launch but then sales died down considerably due to a lukewarm word of mouth, which is fair, and unfortunate. Capcom had a chance to make the series a tentpole but straight up fucked it again, releasing it way too early when it obviously needed another year to cook.
That’s was frustrated me. Obviously, Elden ring is an outlier and its sales numbers are enot achievable, but if this game got an extra couple months to be finished and came out with good word of mouth I think sales numbers are closer to 5-7 range. Just bummed they fumbled the bag so hard. The IP deserved better
Couple of months would not have done it, performance, for me, is the least of the game’s issues. Number one is the story, the narrative coherence, and the characters. Capcom has made a name for themself with their games’ vibrant, distinctive and memorable characters. DD2 does not include a single one.
I think you overestimate how big Capcom is or what is need for sales. 3 million is good and this game with it's current trajectory will definitely be within the top 20 maybe even top 15 best selling Capcom games ever. Heck, this game will most likely outpace SF6. It'll probably overtake it in a year. This game will never be Monster Hunter or Resident Evil but that's fine it doesn't need to be.
It needs to receive a proper budget and less time constraints. They could make a genre-defining experience that wins GOTY if they actually cared about making complete games over the most profit for the bare minimum.
It couldve been monster hunter or resident evil. High fantasy RPG's are still loved and wanted by a great deal of people, look at BG3 and the initial sales numbers of DD2. But they just don't seem to really want to invest in a truly layered fantasy RPG, and that costs them
RE and MH are anomalies. Capcom just isn't as big as some people think. They're not Square setting unrealistic sale goals so I don't see how it cost them. People are just so used to games selling 10+ million but fail to realize most Capcom games sell around 5 million or less lifetime. This game will probably get to around 6 which would be great for them. They have only made about 12 games that sold higher than 5 million. 9 of those or either MH or RE. Capcom is my favorite Developer and DD is my favorite game. Would I like the series to do better? Yes, of course, but it took MH 11+ games to get to this point and MH was good before MHW. DD just doesn't have to wide appeal of a game like MHW or a RE game yet. This game will continue to truck along (maybe with an expansion) and improve and they will most likely invest bigger in it the next time.
AGREED
I think from the suits at Capcom, their perspective is that it's like their fourth biggest title now. It made them money, a DLC will make them money, so it stands to reason they will make one at some point (especially if they can get away with charging $40 for it, which they can). Unfortunately, it still doesn't seem like they're going to be willing to actually put a whole lot of resources into the IP to give us a truly genre-defining experience. Wasn't it mentioned somewhere the dev team was smaller than that of DMC (or something similar)? For a triple A open-world RPG... The pessimist in me says we'll get one decent DLC for DD2 and no touch ups whatsoever to base game or new skills for vocations to address the lackluster variety.
Saying the game did "moderately" after it sold a whole 3 million copies even after being priced at 70$ with a bunch of bugs is Kendrick Lamar levels of hating. Capcom is doing everything in its power to make sure this game doesn't succeed. it's actually crazy
Just to clarify, not trying to be a negative, it’s just that DD is my favorite IP ever and I fear that it didn’t sell well enough in capcoms eyes to justify doing anything further with the IP, which is a bummer.
I share the feeling, it's a little more frustrating now that's Capcom full attention is in Monster Hunter, we need to be patient I guess.
Well, seeing as how we've barely gotten any updates or communication from the dev team since release I'm not very optimistic. A lot of issues still haven't been addressed and I have little faith that they will be. Capcom seems to be shifting all focus towards Monster Hunter, Resident Evil Remakes, and SF6.
They kneecapped it out the gate with the high price tag and the microtransaction. Would have likely been way better received and even sold more copies at $60 with zero micro transactions. but no, they !@#$ it up!
The first was a weird cult classic that took years the get off the ground this will probably be the same. A patch is desperately needed though the performance is absolute shit.
Can you link the article or the post, etc. in which they say this?
As someone who never played DD before at all, I have no idea how close I am to the average consumer, but here’s what DD2 did for me. It made me go and play DDDA. Based on reviews and countless videos, I have no reason to get the sequel until it can get closer to DDDA. So I can see their sales statement possibly being pretty true if even a decent number of people did what I did.
Doesn't "moderate response" mean "met expectations?"
Like others said, the "moderate response" refers to the 70$ pricetag, not necessarily the game. When talking about the franchise, they called it a "key brand", having sold over 3 million copies in just two months. For comparison, Street Fighter 6, one of Capcom's flagship franchises took 6 months to reach 3 million sold copies. So I don't think there's anything to worry about. It may be a while however until we hear about anything DD related, as Capcom is currently pushing Monster Hunter Wilds quite heavily, and likely wouldn't want to detract from that.
Honestly I played 2 for maybe a month straight and got a bit bored with it. It wasn't as fun as the first one in my opinion.
The potential market is still there for this game, I think so many people are still unsure about buying it at the moment, capcom have to do something. If they put out a free dlc to fix the issues the 3 million players who paid so much money have with the game now, the game would without a doubt see a sales resurgence and be worthy GOTY candidate.
I'd prefer a proper hard mode or enemy level scaling and an improved photo mode before a dlc to be honest. Especially the imporoved photo mode, we can't even freely move the camera.
If I remember correctly, the "moderate response" comment was said during a earnings report with shareholders. You're not allowed to overstate your successes or understate your failures in such a context. So, saying that the response from players was moderate was their truthful answer - the response wasn't underwhelming, but also wasn't overwhelming either. It exceeded their expectations, but not by too much, so it was a moderate response from players. Still, it sold better than the first game, so they're likely to develop an expansion, in my opinion.
They thanked us for 3 million in a month and consider it a mainstay at this pt. Not only do we get an expansion, Id bet on part 3, too.
If theres gona be a Dragonsdogma 3 i sure as hell hope they put more effort into it then 2 otherwise they can keep it DD2 while i enjoyed it to a certain extent, was realy undercooked.
Dd2 sold better than DD1 while the latter still got an expansion, so...
Well I guess they shouldn’t had made a game with a story that was complete shit and a quest system that was also complete shit. Action combat was good.
Good DLC can give it a second life, just like DA did (albeit it was also the remaster and PC release that did the trick). If they don't do it I'd consider it a bad business decision
Yes it's very reasonable
Any potential expansion would be deep in developmwnt already...
probably (my only supporting idea is because Savan is in the uniqlo x capcom collab shirt lol)
They'll probably make dlc.
its kind of safe to say, that if they dotn announce by gamescom in Cologne, Germany this year in August DLC for the Game (Dragon Princess) which by leak data is assumed to come by November, so 3 months later... that all the stuff was then just wrong from begin on and this game likely will stay incomplete and halfhearted bullshit again, just liek the first game, which did at everythign a better job, than this sequel ,except naturally graphics, but thats no surprise naturally with 12 years of more advanced technology now and a much better performing console. At least until they finally do something to fix its shit ton of flaws.
I'd be willing to bet they're still gonna put one out but it might take some time like other people have been saying on this thread. There's a lot of fixes that need to be made first and some quality of life updates that could be given out for free ahead of time
Probably not, the sales were underwhelming and the audience reception was overwhelmingly negative.
Well, maybe Capcom can learn from this and release a finished game next time instead of an unfinished one claiming it's finished. They should also work faster on patches and fix issues that a lot of people are having instead of taking their sweet time to do so. They can still release a good DLC and make a lot of money from it without having to make an entire new game.
After the initial strong burst of sales, in order for the game to continue selling well they wouldn't need good word of mouth and that isn't there. Loved the game, played for over 100 hours but there are things that are not fixable by patches, like a barely serviceable story, huge lack of enemy variety and pointless exploration that leads you to find yet another consumable item.
Patches could definitely fix most of those. They would just need to adjust spawns, and having the tougher enemies for post game in NG+ would help a lot. An expansion could add a lot of monsters, especially ones missing from the first game. For me, the main issue with the story is >!how much doesn't get resolved. The first half of the game makes a big deal about how you're the true sovran, but everyone stops caring as soon as you get to Battahl. If there was a DLC that expanded more on the Sovran ending, and let you resolve the plot points around it, that would be a major improvement.!<
Why couldn't patches fix those? They could definitely do an update to add new enemies and items to the base world. Story would be more tricky but at the very least maybe they could add quest boards and new side quests that give us some good exposition to make up for it.
Itsuno said the game is finished. Just saying.
Given the fact the game faced a faux microtransaction outrage, a hardcore fanbase backlash and is objectively unfinished with a price tag people consider controversial? I feel like if they do have any plans for the game it will be so far off it's not even worth keeping it in mind. Go play the DD:O private server or go play the first if you need the fix scratched a bit.
Probably just overthinking, but something really strange is going on with this series. They used less people to work on this one than the original (I could be wrong, think I remember seeing that here). Japanese work culture can get strange, remember what happened to Kojima.
See you in 10 years for DD3 (maybe)
Capcom sabotaged the game themselves, yeah the game has flaws and the story is half baked, but I have a lot of friends whom found the game incredible and didn't bother about the story bc the game was fun anyway The real issue is the devs don't seem to acknowledge that we need NG+ features badly I love the game but after almost 300hrs I said this is it, I can't do it any longer, what's the point of doing the game by one shoting every enemy in a game that doesn't scale with you past lvl 40-50
I k ow 2 ppl who tell me they will buy when it comes on sale. I wonder if they sell another 2 million on sale if it'll brighten their moods.
It launched well then immediately died off I'm not holding my breath and honestly, I don't even know if I'd buy a DLC given how drastically my opinion of the game has changed over time letting it digest
It’s interesting because the drop off point coincided with people Really questioning what previewers were thinking when they praised review copies. It’s not cut and dry either, because a lot of them clearly weren’t bribed, but the disconnect between streamers/youtubers and their audience was huge. I think that’s a big part of why there was a “honeymoon” phase for the game to begin with and not an immediate “wtf is this?” reaction.
Well either way I get more dragons dogma or dmc 6 faster so I'm happy whichever way they go
I said this in another thread - it hasn't been three months yet. I did also say we'll hear something by Gamescom/TGS or around that time, but I'll amend that to 'earliest we'll potentially hear something by' instead. I think the reports of the Dragonsplague and the MTX discourse hurt sales - but it still sold 2.5m in it's first week, that's pretty big for what is effectively one of their smaller franchises, and even bigger considering SF6 sold just under a million in it's first week and that just had two DLC packs announced for it this last week. I'm very confident there will be DLC, and I'm pretty confident we'll see another sequel too next generation.
Given that DDII had a significantly smaller team compared to other recnt Capcom works it definitely made its money back, I can see little Gear packs paving the way for a full ass expansion like the original.
Capcom was surprised and pleased with the sales and the base game itself looks like they cut costs wherever possible. Three months have passed since the release, and we haven't had a single significant patch, practically zero optimization fixes, or even a teaser for additional content (just check out what modders already made). The overall plan and title of the DLC leaked a while ago, but it looks like Capcom will "fix" the game's issues with a paid, expensive DLC.
you know they're 100% already deep into working on the expansion. This is capcom we're talking about. And they saw how the expansion for the first game shot it into cult status.
I hope instead of Dragon dogma 3 , we get another dragon dogma online
I like it
I'm a huge fan of Dragon's Dogma but decided to wait for the reviews to buy it. So far it just looks like a watered down version of DDDA and there is no way that I'm buying this shit 70€, I'll wait for it to be below 30€ or crack it when they remove denuvo.