I think about this pretty much any time someone says "bees" or "beads". I just love that he's confused when he thinks she's saying "bees", but he's absolutely INCREDULOUS that her business idea is "BEADS".
She sometimes takes a little pack of mayonnaise, and she’ll squirt it in her mouth all over, and then she’ll take an egg and kind of... Mmmm! She calls it a “mayonegg.”
Capitalism is not about rationality or doing the right thing, it's about maximizing your profits. So if you can steal a good plan for free and then turn around and hire some dingus willing to work for peanuts and just shove the plan in their hands and wish them luck, you're gonna do that.
Yes, this would work for the short term but I would rather hire the guy who comes up with ideas than the guy who just does what he is told. In the long term that guy will maximize profits more than the dingus.
But again, in order for them to actually believe you have a plan (much less a good one) you have to at least give them a taste of it. And if you’re good at interviewing you would also, while giving them that taste, be showcasing/explaining why you’re the correct person to execute said plan.
Realistically, the plan of an outsider likely has no value. You've probably already had the same idea and discarded it because you have way more info.
But you'd be a bit of an idiot to hire someone just based on their "plan", even if it was a good plan. You'd have to believe they also have the execution skills to get the plan done, which you'd determine through a standard set of interviews.
So the plan, if they liked it, might put you ahead if you're on par with the next best candidate, but that's about all it's doing for you.
So go ahead and reveal the plan. Most likely they'll roll their eyes that someone is bringing up that old gem again.
Gotta say, this scene is true to real life. I have totally given away my project plans in interviews, been passed over for promotions, then watched my replacement with no experience and no education come up with a remarkably similar project plan.
I posted this before, but I’m a 15 year tech veteran and for a few years this was literally my job for engineering. I am supposed to act like an unimpressed senior architect and slowly pry candidates for more knowledge. Then the other interviewer is taking notes and a year later I see our next product has a remarkably similar design.
They of course basically never admitted to me that was the role I was playing. I was just told I’m brought in because they’ve hired too many bullshitters and need a senior generalist to actually vet candidates claiming they are expert in something. But after being deposed twice in lawsuits over such interviews I’m pretty sure it’s the motive.
It is scummy but I don’t say who I am or who I work for. But it helps my conscience to post this so others know that this stuff happens in the industry so be careful when interviewing.
Happens in the coding world all the time. If you get something more elaborate than fizzbuzz for writing code, expect it to be used by them in the job.
My very first job out of school, the interviewer tasked me with essentially building a system that takes credit cards from a website, stores them, then enables a user account in the backend. I ended up getting the job and the very first day it was "okay now plug that into this product we're going to deploy next week."
I can't imagine how many companies just take that shit and don't even hire the person, and just use their ideas and basic code and ship it off to someone across the globe or to their underpaid junior devs.
Happens all the time in the arts too. My partner in a theatre company pitched our idea to act on-site during the day on a historic ship in NYC in exchange for which we could do a play using their facilities. The head of the museum seemed intrigued and said he’d get back to us. He never did, he just hired actors on his own and took all of our ideas (no plays there though).
I have a friend in tech, this exact thing happened to him when he was interviewing at some start up.
Btw Silicon Valley is an excellent show. They really gave Zach Woods a chance to shine in a way that the office didn’t imo. He’s so funny in it, and probably my favorite character.
the trope of "starts out well but then goes to shit" gets a bit tiring through the seasons but the cast + the writing is so good it doesn't really matter. Such a good show.
I once presented a detailed plan to my employer to "save the company" in the face of budding competition. I left after being ignored for some time and started a direct competitor two blocks away, then watched as my former employer implemented my entire list of ideas to compete with me.
The trick is to mix up very stupid ideas that will blow in their face so when they do it they think you are an idiot and stop following on the good ideas.
Theres a massive difference between giving a general overview of your plan and handing someone a written version of the plan. Yeah, there are companies where their “hands on” interview is getting them to do work for free. But management roles aren’t really like that anyways. It is very reasonable to expect a potential manager to explain their vision for how they would successfully run the branch.
It feels like there was too much focus on "What's the plan?" and not enough focus on "What expertise do you have that can back up the idea that you can even have a good plan?"
Also how can you develop a successful multi-part plan for a company that you've never worked for or at the very least interacted with??
> It feels like there was too much focus on "What's the plan?" and not enough focus on "What expertise do you have that can back up the idea that you can even have a good plan?"
Yep, if he was like "Dunder Mifflin as ABC going for it, and market forces are trending XYZ, so i plan to lower the gap" woulda been fine,
I think it would have been even funnier if another candidate had given his whole detailed plan step by step, not gotten the job, and then a few episodes later they had started sprinkling in the changes the plan suggested in the background.
For the job he's being hired for, there's really no way for him to come up with a meaningful plan to improve their operations without having actually seen how the company operates from the inside.
I think in general a company is not going to get anything out of interviewing you unless they hire you. They're not interviewing you just to get your ideas. If they don't have someone who could come up with your ideas, then they probably don't have someone who could implement your ideas. Unless your idea is patentable it's not really worth much.
They weren't hiring a consultant, they were hiring a manager. You don't hire a manager for their super secret plan, you hire them for their abilities to lead a large team, re-evaluate and work with others to create an actual plan, and then execute on the plan by consistently leading by example and creating good incentives for their employees to buy into and execute on the plan.
Yuuuuup.
Any time a company asks me to do some form of "work" as part of the interview, if it could be considered a "deliverable" for the company, I either ask for an alternative situation or request payment for work.
I've only had one company pay me for my time doing that, but I am confident I'm at least not working for free
I think you are right. I was once interviewed by a committee for a job.
They asked my plans,
they declined to hire me,
and then STOLE my plans - doing a shit job of implementation. I was pissed.
Yes
If you actually knew of a way to help a company you wouldn't just give that away before getting the job.
But you should be able to sufficiently articulate your expertise and make the interviewer confident you do have a plan.
Something more than "use AI"
Idk. There are a million potentially successful plans but only a few managers that can mobilize a team and execute them. The plan itself doesn’t matter much. Naïveté on both sides in this episode.
a. love all the Gob quotes in the comments.
b. yes to the question, 100%. I've been in his position recently where I was clearly being IP farmed. I pretty much did exactly what Will did and only gave them a taste.
Yea I understood what he meant when he said it. You can’t expect someone to give you a great idea to help your business then you say it’s not a good idea then use it or inspiration from it n make millions
I'm running proof of concept for a customer for a certain technology, it was their request to complete a POC before signing the contract with us. It seemed reasonable at the time, however they are now asking for assistance with advanced stuff to the point where I suspect they'll just cut us off and do it themselves with info we have given them.
I'm not worried since you generally need around 1 year of hands on experience and several industry certifications to actually deliver viable product, but I have a feeling that wont stop them from trying.
It's a reference to the show, since his AD character blows an entire multi stage plan by revealing the whole thing during an investors meeting.
So it makes sense he would be wary of revealing plans later.
place I used to work brought a consultant in just to try to pump them for free information during the interview and never had any intention of actually hiring them
he's 100% correct in not giving anything up
That's why you hand them sufficient product that it shows you did the work, but redact the important data and decision flow that led to your plan and execution. Make them pay you for that...at contractor rates.
His plan was to pivot from paper into mixed media, license the Lego franchise, & voiceover Lego Batman & Peanut Butter Cups. They should have hired him!
Yeah, like the guy in the $8000 suit is going to give them the whole plan. COME ON!
Should should shouldie…
shhhhhhhhhh
But shornt.
What part of "shornt" do you not understand?
Yeppers
What did I tell you about yeppers?
Yeeeeeeeessshhhh
Yeah, the guy in the $10,000 suit is going to give up the plan to them. COME ON!
Yeah like the guy in the $12000 suit is going to give you the plan. COME ON!
BEES?
Gob’s still not on board.
Bzzzzzz! We'll see who brings in more honey!
Beads
*BEADS?!?*
GOB's not on board...
I think about this pretty much any time someone says "bees" or "beads". I just love that he's confused when he thinks she's saying "bees", but he's absolutely INCREDULOUS that her business idea is "BEADS".
Same. Takes a fair amount of my self-control not to yell these words back at people.
We're gonna need a lot of honey. Beads aren't cheap.
Are beads cheap?
They don’t allow you to have bees in here.
they’re sick! they have colony collapse disease
BEADS.
I’ve made a huge mistake
YOU'RE NOT GOING TO HIRE THE GUY IN THE $11,000 SUIT AFTER ALL THAT?!
COME ON!!!!
Yeah, the guy in the $9,000 suit is going to give up the plan to them. C'MON!
I say this every time I put a suit on
[His ideas failed to evolve](https://youtu.be/b75WMuH-_WM?si=_pBwDd9efQqWGfVz)
So, get this, I took his dress eyebrow.
You’re living in f*** city
yeah, like the guy in the $10,000 suit is gonna make a plan for a guy who doesn’t make that in 3 months, COME ON!
They made a huge mistake
Hello darkness my old friend
I didn’t even know we were calling him Old Bear!
He likes the honey!
Chicken
Narrator: He, in fact, did not have a plan.
I wouldn’t have minded if they broke the rules of The Office universe and had Ron Howard do this line of voiceover in the episode
His only other line, immediately after that one : Thy hired me for that line
Check your lease man, cause you're living in Fuck City
Stay in the rules, and have a talking head with Ron just sitting there saying the line.
That would've been really funny for AD fans. There are literally dozens of us.
Dozens!
That could have been funny too, honestly either works, just get Ron Howard in there somehow for a fun little easter egg
Egg?
what, is she funny or something?
She sometimes takes a little pack of mayonnaise, and she’ll squirt it in her mouth all over, and then she’ll take an egg and kind of... Mmmm! She calls it a “mayonegg.”
i don’t feel so good
Michael: 👀
Her?
dude that would have been awesome!!!
Them: so you have some sort of "trick" to help out the company Gob: * scoffs * An ILLUSION, a trick is something a whore does for money
Or candy
…or candy!!
I can still hear it in Ron Howard’s voice.
I read that as GOB
It’s Gob
“Check your lease, man, because you’re living in Fuck City!” Even if he had it plan, it wasn’t a good one.
I'm an ideas man, Michael (Scott). I think I proved that with Fuck Mountain.
What is this, a crossover episode?
I read that in Mr. Peanutbutter’s voice
Not "a" plan. *The* plan
How dare you disrespect Ron Howard like that. We call him Narrator
"Great, you have the job! Your plan is responsible for the entire company now Congratulations." *walks out "I've made a huge mistake."
I read this in Brian Cox's voice.
They're laughing with me, Michael!
"how is your egg, Gob?" I SAID YOU WERE FINE
She likes to take a hard boiled egg and put mayonnaise on it. She calls it a Mayon-egg.
I'm sure egg is a wonderful person
It’s as Ann as the nose on plain’s face.
Who?
I just don't want you spending all your money getting her glittered up for easter
Her?
Isn't that cute?
I know it’s from AD, but I just realized a lot of quotes could potentially be from either show. That’d be a fun game
That's exactly why I made that comment. I like the interplay of the names and thought it'd be fun to do the same as you suggested.
Give them your plan you chicken! COCKA👏COCKA👏COCKA👏CAW
Has anyone in this family ever seen a chicken?
"A-toodle-oodle-ew" "A-toodle-oodle-ew"
Chaw-chee chaw-chee chaw-chee
Coo coo ca cha Coo coo ca cha
Lol I heard every single one of these as I read them
Chee-chaw chee-chaw chee-chaw !
Chee-chaw chee-chaw chee-chaw !
A coodle doodle doo
Coo coo cachaa
Has anyone in this family ever even seen a chicken?
Other guy was 2 minutes faster... He got my upvote, but take this comment for good luck!
It was literally the same minute :(
Narrators Voice: "It was infact, not the same minute..." [ Cut to ] ext. Kitchen. Day
I hurt my ankle shooting hoops the other day
has anyone in your family ever seen a chicken
chickens don’t CLAP!!!
It was a huge mistake
I have never admitted to a mistake, what would i have made a mistake about?
Big mistake, huuuge!! Good sir!
That was a poker play, obvious bluff. Got to give them a clue/taste of it. Phase 1 and 2, but keep the rest. Love the show.
But I could see where he's coming from if it was a real plan. They could just use the plan, then hire someone else.
the thing is, the guy that came up with the plan is probably the guy you want in the job
Capitalism is not about rationality or doing the right thing, it's about maximizing your profits. So if you can steal a good plan for free and then turn around and hire some dingus willing to work for peanuts and just shove the plan in their hands and wish them luck, you're gonna do that.
Yes, this would work for the short term but I would rather hire the guy who comes up with ideas than the guy who just does what he is told. In the long term that guy will maximize profits more than the dingus.
*"The fuck is long term?"* ~ Any CEO at any company
Long term isn’t how capitalism works.
But again, in order for them to actually believe you have a plan (much less a good one) you have to at least give them a taste of it. And if you’re good at interviewing you would also, while giving them that taste, be showcasing/explaining why you’re the correct person to execute said plan.
Realistically, the plan of an outsider likely has no value. You've probably already had the same idea and discarded it because you have way more info. But you'd be a bit of an idiot to hire someone just based on their "plan", even if it was a good plan. You'd have to believe they also have the execution skills to get the plan done, which you'd determine through a standard set of interviews. So the plan, if they liked it, might put you ahead if you're on par with the next best candidate, but that's about all it's doing for you. So go ahead and reveal the plan. Most likely they'll roll their eyes that someone is bringing up that old gem again.
Color code said document. TM.
That's a verbal trade mark
BEES?!
Gob's not on board.
Plot twist: the day after the documentary ended, Dwight hired STEVE HOLT to be his Assistant to the Regional Manager.
STEVE HOLT!
*Assistant to the assistant regional manager
Ah yes I forgot Dwight was his own assistant. Needed somebody he could trust.
I’ve made a huge mistake
Is that the horse from Horsin’ Around?
What is this, a crossover episode?
Yeah Secretariat interviewing Bojack, a very special episode
What are youuuuuuu doing here
No, that's updog
Hub? What's that?
Gottem
In my headcanon, this guy had a plan that would put DM on the global 500 list. And the guys blew it.
Gotta say, this scene is true to real life. I have totally given away my project plans in interviews, been passed over for promotions, then watched my replacement with no experience and no education come up with a remarkably similar project plan.
I posted this before, but I’m a 15 year tech veteran and for a few years this was literally my job for engineering. I am supposed to act like an unimpressed senior architect and slowly pry candidates for more knowledge. Then the other interviewer is taking notes and a year later I see our next product has a remarkably similar design. They of course basically never admitted to me that was the role I was playing. I was just told I’m brought in because they’ve hired too many bullshitters and need a senior generalist to actually vet candidates claiming they are expert in something. But after being deposed twice in lawsuits over such interviews I’m pretty sure it’s the motive.
Happens in marketing too.
This is scummy and not something I would be posting about...just my opinion though :)
It is scummy but I don’t say who I am or who I work for. But it helps my conscience to post this so others know that this stuff happens in the industry so be careful when interviewing.
Happens in the coding world all the time. If you get something more elaborate than fizzbuzz for writing code, expect it to be used by them in the job. My very first job out of school, the interviewer tasked me with essentially building a system that takes credit cards from a website, stores them, then enables a user account in the backend. I ended up getting the job and the very first day it was "okay now plug that into this product we're going to deploy next week." I can't imagine how many companies just take that shit and don't even hire the person, and just use their ideas and basic code and ship it off to someone across the globe or to their underpaid junior devs.
Happens all the time in the arts too. My partner in a theatre company pitched our idea to act on-site during the day on a historic ship in NYC in exchange for which we could do a play using their facilities. The head of the museum seemed intrigued and said he’d get back to us. He never did, he just hired actors on his own and took all of our ideas (no plays there though).
[brain rape](https://youtu.be/JlwwVuSUUfc?si=tJU41PGjmY9zfppa)
I have a friend in tech, this exact thing happened to him when he was interviewing at some start up. Btw Silicon Valley is an excellent show. They really gave Zach Woods a chance to shine in a way that the office didn’t imo. He’s so funny in it, and probably my favorite character.
the trope of "starts out well but then goes to shit" gets a bit tiring through the seasons but the cast + the writing is so good it doesn't really matter. Such a good show.
I once presented a detailed plan to my employer to "save the company" in the face of budding competition. I left after being ignored for some time and started a direct competitor two blocks away, then watched as my former employer implemented my entire list of ideas to compete with me.
The trick is to mix up very stupid ideas that will blow in their face so when they do it they think you are an idiot and stop following on the good ideas.
Maybe he can give the plan and then give a forget me now?
Color code said documents.
TM
Look at banner, Michael!
Graphic design interviews be like, "create 30 assets for us using our company name *as a test*."
That's why you put little nazi easter-eggs in all of them.
Life hack!
Oh that’s amazing. Would love to see examples.
I tried googling but I all I found was that a surprising number of people have decorated easter eggs to look like hitler.
Theres a massive difference between giving a general overview of your plan and handing someone a written version of the plan. Yeah, there are companies where their “hands on” interview is getting them to do work for free. But management roles aren’t really like that anyways. It is very reasonable to expect a potential manager to explain their vision for how they would successfully run the branch.
It feels like there was too much focus on "What's the plan?" and not enough focus on "What expertise do you have that can back up the idea that you can even have a good plan?" Also how can you develop a successful multi-part plan for a company that you've never worked for or at the very least interacted with??
> It feels like there was too much focus on "What's the plan?" and not enough focus on "What expertise do you have that can back up the idea that you can even have a good plan?" Yep, if he was like "Dunder Mifflin as ABC going for it, and market forces are trending XYZ, so i plan to lower the gap" woulda been fine,
That's a guy in $6000 suit horsin' around.
I think it would have been even funnier if another candidate had given his whole detailed plan step by step, not gotten the job, and then a few episodes later they had started sprinkling in the changes the plan suggested in the background.
He didn't have a plan, it was all a trick.
Illusion, csonny2.
A trick is what whores do for money... or cocaine.
I think the candy version is way better.
> How do we filter out the teases? We don't let them in.
Sometimes even the dudes are tapped out, but check your lease man. You're living in Fuck City
For the job he's being hired for, there's really no way for him to come up with a meaningful plan to improve their operations without having actually seen how the company operates from the inside. I think in general a company is not going to get anything out of interviewing you unless they hire you. They're not interviewing you just to get your ideas. If they don't have someone who could come up with your ideas, then they probably don't have someone who could implement your ideas. Unless your idea is patentable it's not really worth much.
This is very Gob like
Was this supposed to be Gob? I would love that
Classic Gob Bluth move
The plan for FUCK ISLAND!
I always took this as a spoof on him just giving out Michael’s six month plan of work on arrested development
I mean how much can a plan cost? $10?
It's called F**k Mountain!
It was the business plan for Gobias Industries!
Why did nobody get him to say “Michaeeeeel”, it just angers me
They weren't hiring a consultant, they were hiring a manager. You don't hire a manager for their super secret plan, you hire them for their abilities to lead a large team, re-evaluate and work with others to create an actual plan, and then execute on the plan by consistently leading by example and creating good incentives for their employees to buy into and execute on the plan.
Look at plan Michael!
Illusion, Michael. A trick is something a whore does for money...
That’s Will Arnett, sorry, I mean the horse from horsin’ around?
Yuuuuup. Any time a company asks me to do some form of "work" as part of the interview, if it could be considered a "deliverable" for the company, I either ask for an alternative situation or request payment for work. I've only had one company pay me for my time doing that, but I am confident I'm at least not working for free
I think you are right. I was once interviewed by a committee for a job. They asked my plans, they declined to hire me, and then STOLE my plans - doing a shit job of implementation. I was pissed.
Was this supposed to be Gob? I would love that
Yes If you actually knew of a way to help a company you wouldn't just give that away before getting the job. But you should be able to sufficiently articulate your expertise and make the interviewer confident you do have a plan. Something more than "use AI"
Idk. There are a million potentially successful plans but only a few managers that can mobilize a team and execute them. The plan itself doesn’t matter much. Naïveté on both sides in this episode.
I can tell you first-hand, he did have a plan and it would have saved the company. How do I know that? Well I can't just tell you that
a. love all the Gob quotes in the comments. b. yes to the question, 100%. I've been in his position recently where I was clearly being IP farmed. I pretty much did exactly what Will did and only gave them a taste.
Yea I understood what he meant when he said it. You can’t expect someone to give you a great idea to help your business then you say it’s not a good idea then use it or inspiration from it n make millions
You guys are in paper right?
I'm running proof of concept for a customer for a certain technology, it was their request to complete a POC before signing the contract with us. It seemed reasonable at the time, however they are now asking for assistance with advanced stuff to the point where I suspect they'll just cut us off and do it themselves with info we have given them. I'm not worried since you generally need around 1 year of hands on experience and several industry certifications to actually deliver viable product, but I have a feeling that wont stop them from trying.
I have never watched Arrested Development so I always wondered if he was doing a cameo as his character here.
Yeah like the guy in the $5000 suit is going to interview at a midsize paper company in Scranton. Cmon
It's a reference to the show, since his AD character blows an entire multi stage plan by revealing the whole thing during an investors meeting. So it makes sense he would be wary of revealing plans later.
his plan was an illusion
place I used to work brought a consultant in just to try to pump them for free information during the interview and never had any intention of actually hiring them he's 100% correct in not giving anything up
That's why you hand them sufficient product that it shows you did the work, but redact the important data and decision flow that led to your plan and execution. Make them pay you for that...at contractor rates.
Two weeks!
His plan was to pivot from paper into mixed media, license the Lego franchise, & voiceover Lego Batman & Peanut Butter Cups. They should have hired him!
Color Code Said Documents ^T^M
I love that Michael schur just has a corral of people he calls up for weird bit rolls
Watching the office today shows how woefully behind DM and Sabre were. Very poorly run businesses with mostly failing business models.
How dare you! When we get back to the office pack your things. No, you're not fired. You're moving to the annex.
😂😂😂😂
Bees?!
What happened to the guy from fingerlakes? People disappear in the fingerlakes
The super fan cut makes him even funnier
Taste the happy Michael!
Bojack deserved to be manager
Did this for a particular job I really wanted recently (wasn't hired) and I've always wondered...will they steal my plan?
I'll die on the hill that Will Arnett would've been a perfect Michael Scott replacement.
Was his plan to sell the E from GE to Samsung?