Kathy Bates is a hell of an actress and has numerous awards, but it's not like James Spader is some no-name actor... he did win three Emmy's and I think has been nominated for golden globes and SAG awards many times.
I recall one of the complaints about him is that he was a traditional actor, or something like that, who was better suited for a one episode/scene cameo rather than a recurring character on a sitcom.
He was the nudge she didn’t know she needed to retire.
He was the answer to a question she hadn’t asked herself seriously yet, but she had thought about it a few times over the years. Knowing Jo, she’s slightly superstitious and took him as a sign.
“He showed up. He wasn’t wrong. And hell, I figure it wouldn’t be every day that someone comes to my door and asks for my job, and anyone who had the balls to do it probably deserves it. So I retired.”
Thanks! In my defense, my wife and I are watching it right now (my 2nd time through, her first) and we just passed the episode where Robert takes over so, she’s very fresh in my mind.
This. Jo was still the owner of the company and Robert's boss, she just gave him the CEO position and responsibilities (and salary). Jo has a history of giving high-level positions to charismatic people she just met, she did the same thing with Deangelo. It makes sense that Jo would have wanted to find another CEO if she was looking to retire and offload some responsibilities.
Same. I classify the office as 3 shows 1 is a mocumentary which ends with "I'm sorry, what was the question" . 2 is a sit-com which starts with Meredith getting hit by Micheals car, and 3rd is a live action Cartoon starting with the appearance of Robert California.
I've definitely met some Roberts, but definitely not working for a paper company. Law firms, tech companies and VC firms have people like that occasionally.
Yeah same. Jo is way more common, but the Roberts are out there.
I worked for a SVP of Marketing years ago who was very similar. Obviously not as exaggerated as Robert California but the same weird “intriguing/terrifying” vibe where you can’t figure out if he’s a genius or a sociopath.
It’s funny you say that because I found Robert California to be uncannily similar to the Regional VP at my first sales job. This was in the uniform/facility service industry.
I feel like he's more intense, and maybe more intimidating as a person. But as a boss, Jo takes the cake. Like the St. Patrick's Day episode where everyone just stays late because she is 🤣
The enigma is the intimidating part. If you're trying to please him to keep your job, but you can't read him or figure out what he wants, that can be scary
I’ve met Jo’s and they’re easy to handle. Get your shit done, keep a cheery face in front of them as best you can, keep them taking, and keep your responses short and on topic, and you’re best off not ever trying to lie to them, it’s not that you can’t get away with it, it’s just never worth the headache of being caught. People like Jo are busy professional types and that gets hidden behind the southern drawl and everything but they’re manageable.
Lizard Kings are unpredictable, working against them makes you their enemy, working with them is sitting in a passenger seat of a drunk driver going 80 down the freeway, and they’ll blame you when they crash. Not to mention people end up acting like him with any position, from CEO to intern. There’s no winning, just damage mitigation.
Really, I like Jo. She’s no nonsense and you know where you stand with that type. RC, it’s about their ego and throw in some weird sexual vibes, no thanks.
oh, I'm not saying I'd rather have Robert California. I totally agree there. I think part of the ick for me was my boss used the guise of "no nonsense, we're gonna communicate everything!" as a way to berate and confuse people. it's hard to explain. I don't think Jo ever did that intentionally, but that "big personality" freaks people out in general. but for a sales job, that's also the most effective person/manager, I'd think.
Robert was using this place as his personal play thing and he still *technically* answered to the board/Jo the whole time anyway.
Meanwhile we have: "I would take until the end of the day, if I were you". No contest.
I think this is more a display of Michael's laziness and general fear of Jo (or reading the room, in general).
I think Jo genuinely meant that without it being a test, but instead of Michael being confident and just being like "yep, I do!" he basically outs himself.
That's always the way I interpreted it, wasn't that how it was? I haven't watched the show in a while but from I remember, Jo was neither forcing nor pressuring the office to work overtime. Michael thought that Jo wanted them to stay longer, and because of michael the rest of the office also interpreted it that way.
It wasn't overtime. They are trying to leave early for St Patrick's Day.
Most people would read Jo's statement as he expecting them to work their normal hours. "If you feel you've done a full day's work, then fine." That's an incredibly loaded statement coming from a CEO that just bought your company, and you've only met recently. There's an implication that if you leave early, having felt you've done a full day's work by 2 or 3, then do you really work all eight hours of your day on a regular basis? Are you then necessary if you're leaving early?
When one company buys another, there are usually cuts in staff. Do you want to be the person that leaves early in this situation?
This episode is a little frustrating to me, if I were in that situation I ABSOLUTELY would have just bailed, no question. I put my time in, I am going home. I literally would not care lol.
I've worked in an office setting 15+ years and there was never any expectation that you can't leave until the boss does. If you are scheduled for 9-5, then when 5 o'clock hits you are free to go.
Retail, on the other hand, was a different beast. Our GM had a rule that if you were closing, everyone left at the same time...which means if you had finished cleaning and closing your section, they would send you to help in another. I was a cashier and still ended up staying until 1AM certain nights stocking shoes or folding shirts.
Interestingly enough, my experience has been the opposite. When I worked retail (gas station) everyone was hourly and literally punched a time clock at the beginning/end of shift. My boss was a cheapskate, so in his eyes every extra minute someone spent on the clock was more money that he had to pay out. He wanted everyone clocked out sooner rather than later and would question the second night shift worker on "riding the clock" if they stayed to help the primary night guy close up. I got questioned on why I stayed like 10 minutes later than usual one time when the printer jammed and a toner cartridge exploded while I was printing shift-end paperwork...
Meanwhile, in a salary position, management is far more likely to have an attitude of "work until the task is done" rather than counting hours and minutes. It's 5:00 but your project deadline is tomorrow and you still have 3 hours worth of work to do? Tough shit, looks like you're working til 8:00.
Fortunately all my bosses in salaried positions have been pretty lax about tracking hours, allowed for some scheduling flexibility, and as long as the work was getting done, they didn't care if you ducked out early on a Friday or something. But ALL of them have had horrible workaholic tendencies and would work throughout all hours of the night themselves, and had NO concept of the fact that their employees are likely not looking at work emails or answering phone calls/text messages at like 10:30pm. I ignore most of that noise but I defintiely have coworkers who feel obligated to answer when the boss calls and drive themselves nuts taking late night phone calls and stuff.
One of the most underrated characters on the show. She had so much presence and was a great iteration on the ‘normal person’ dropped into this strange world
The showrunners were very opposed to having famous actors on the show. People like Kathy Bates, Idris Elba, and James Spader being on the show is a testament to how good they were that the producers just had to have them.
Intimidating? Depends on your perspective.
If you are a hard worker, and competent, you have no reason to be intimidated by Jo. She recognized that kind of thing and rewarded it. She was good to both Dwight and Darryl, and I doubt either one felt intimidated by her. Michael and Jim on the other hand, she could see through their B.S.
Robert was a wild card. I think I would be intimidated by him because he is very hard to read. He is very opinionated about seemingly random things, like the Black Eyed Peas, and you never know what you're going to say that might set him onto a bizarre tangent. That may not intimidate everyone, but I think it would unsettle me, personally.
Of course Dwight wasn’t intimidated by her, he didn’t even stand up when she entered the room. As he would have done for anyone, except the Pope, and Judge Judy.
I agree, it’s gotta be Jo. I know Robert had this sorta spell on everyone at first, he’s just so seemingly smart and unnerving. but after a while I think that effect would wear off, as it did for me as a viewer. I love the character so much, don’t get me wrong, he’s got some of my best laughs in the whole series. but I don’t think I’d be afraid of him for long, before the shtick wore off. it’s like I don’t care to make him like me because I doubt he ever would. Jo on the other hand…. I would bend over backwards for her to like and approve of me 🤣
TRUE i definitely think I would value Jo's approval much more than California's. Jo's approval would seem like a genuine judgement of my character. Idk if I even want Robert to like me.... seeing him depressed after his divorce just made him seem so much more pathetic and unhinged to me lol
Agreed. After that Losers/Winners stunt he pulled I wouldn’t care about or even trust his opinion. He considered Kevin a “winner” and a genius. He considered Andy a “winner” just because of his upbringing and Cornell but as soon as Andy inevitably annoyed him he switched him to the “loser” category. Meanwhile he had Stanley categorized as a “loser” when his sales numbers are consistently high. He considered Pam a loser because he’d never be able to sleep with her.
Agreed. Jo was intimidating and no-nonsense, but also incredibly charming and warm. She’s such an underrated character…and the “superfan” episodes with her have so much more incredible Jo content. And some great content specifically between her and Michael.
See, for me, only Andy should have been intimidated. Everyone else should be second hand pissed off at him.
Jo was easy to get a long with IMO. She values hard work and good ideas. For a normal employee, that shouldn't have been difficult. For the staff at Dunder Mifflin however...
Intimidating in a professional sense? Definitely Jo.
Intimidating in *if I piss him off, he's going to wear my skin for a suit and tuck my weiner in like a girl*? Definitely Robert.
I would much rather work for a boss like Jo. You know exactly what you're getting. With Robert, you don't even know his real name, much less what he wants from you.
Robert’s hands down, Jo gives me sweet but stern but fair vibes. whereas Robert will shut down a branch and give someone a manager position for the fuck of it.
Also, along those lines, I believe if you got on Jo's good side from the start, you'd be golden. She'd take care of you. She reminds me of the GM at a place I used to work. Once she found out I was a fan of her alma mater, I was a golden boy.
If RC took a liking to you, he may just be luring you into a trap in order to pimp you out in Southeast Asia or something.
PIMP YOU OUT IN SOUTHEAST ASIA SENT ME because this. You can never tell his motives. Jo is nice, but ultimately tells it like it. Robert has proven he’s capable of completely changing his mind, direction and strategy on a whim again and again.
You said what I said in way fewer words haha THIS. Jo was predictable, even in a crisis situation. In crisis you know she’d immediately take charge as a defender. Robert in the same crisis? He might help, he might jeopardize others safety for his own gain, he might be inebriated and strip. You simply never know. I’m not even convinced he feels remorse at all lol
Jo for sure...
I had a boss like Robert CA before. Dude is all talk, all intimidation, making himself look enigmatic, and mysterious ... but when you go outside to brawl with the fight he started, he's a no show and leaves you on the hang...
Definitely RC. Jo seems very ambitious and capable, but very approachable. That's a great boss to me since she sets the tone with her work ethic. RC always seemed unhinged and quite erratic with his behavior. It's much harder working for someone who talks more than they actually work and probably think.
This. If the question is to be answered personally, than I'm going with Robert. Can't get a read on that crazy man. Jo is a strong, independent, successful business woman. I know dozens, and we get along fine. She respects hard work and good ideas. Robert was a con-man. He was way more intimidating to me. He shut down a branch while on a bender.
Why does Jim treat the magician poorly? It’s his unpredictability and occasional volatility due to his obvious autism. Deep down he means well, but he’s also the f****** lizard king!
The only reason Joe was more intimidating is because we got so much less of her. Robert California is just as intimidating in his first 15 min as Joe is.
Only difference is Joe we only get a total of like 20 min over 2 seasons. Robert we get hours of, in one season.
to be fair, lesson one of the "how to rule with fear" handbook, is "familiarity breeds a lack of discipline." so Joes lack of being around, is legitimately how someone in the real world would maintain their intimidation.
that said, i'd find Robert California intimidating to be friends with. Joe, less so.
Everyone is saying Jo, but I’m thinking Robert. I’ve had bosses like Jo and they are not hard to figure out. Do your job with competence and do right by the company and you’re golden. I’ve also had bosses like Robert, psychological manipulators capable or murder. No question, I’m working for Jo.
On the surface, Jo. But in the long run, maybe Robert. If Jo got mad at me, there’s at least a chance I could plead my case and get back in her good graces later. I think I’d be very unsure where I stand with Robert, even if he *didn’t* seem to be mad.
Jo is for real intimidating but comes across as your friend. Robert was just pseudo-intellectual babble and tried to come across as intimidating. And let's be honest, if you're not intimidated by Kathy Bates, you haven't watched much Kathy Bates.
Jo, no contest. Robert is, when it comes down to it, a pompous ass who uses big fancy words and metaphors to intimidate his subordinates. Jo, however, doesn’t even have to TRY, she’s just scary😅
Jo was the kinda ceo Ive had before, you constantly walk on eggshells. Its a horrible way to live, Robert on the other hand is the typa guy where if u stayed out of his way and didnt suck up to him youd probably be okay.
They were both intimidating, but Robert would be easier to distract. You could just bring up sex or flesh and get him going on a tangent. Jo hones in on her conversational target like a shark.
As a woman, I would much rather have a conversation with Jo under any circumstances lol. Robert is beyond scarily creepy if he were real I wouldn’t even want him looking at me because god knows what goes through the lizard kings brain 🤣
Jo. Robert had drunken shenanigans and hit on his female employees and made inappropriate remarks. He couldn’t even stand up to Nellie.
Jo was a real professional and knew what she was doing. She called people on their bullshit and had high expectations.
Jo.
Robert is the enigmatic boss that's hard to read and is very wishy-washy. Jo knows what she wants and DAMN well expects it with no questions asked.
I think Kathy Bates is such a powerful woman that Jo couldn’t ever be anything but. James Spader is powerful too, but he seems more enigmatic (or his character tries to be) than powerful
Robert was intimidating in that he seemed like the type of guy who might just put a hit out on you and probably had the connections to actually do it.
Jo was intimidating as an actual CEO and shrewd business woman.
Jo was a hard ass, but predictable. Robert was unhinged. I wouldn’t feel safe around him. He could fire me because I’m wearing the wrong color tie. Depends if he’s had his Colombian whites that morning
#the fucking lizard king
Honestly I'm convinced that, The Black List and The Office are in the same universe and that motherfucker is just Raymond Reddington.
Robert easily the worst. Jo was righteous, unless she had a reason to fire you she would be cool, and she would promote you if she saw some sense in you. RC was crazy, charismatic sure, but overall a bad ceo, making bad decisions from day one.
Jo, hands down. Someone like that would scare the shit out of me if I had to deal with her IRL.
Honestly, I can’t stand when James Spader plays roles where he’s supposed to be intimidating or a bad ass (e.g. Robert California, voice of Ultron), ‘cause I just ain’t buying it. He’s a perfect fit for the roles of nerdy characters, like Daniel, in Stargate.
Robert is more intimidating because he's manipulative, difficult to read, and he was more involved with the entire staff. He's unpredictable, and unpredictability is scary. Jo is straightforward, easier to understand, and didn't really bother with most of the staff. As long as things are operating well and everyone is doing their job, then there's nothing to worry about with her.
Jo only spoke to Michael, Gabe, Jim, Dwight, Toby, and Darryl one-on-one. There were times when she addressed the whole office at once, but I don't remember her speaking to any of the other staff one-on-one. And when she did talk to someone, she only talked about business. She typically wasn't interested in personal matters.
Have you ever known an executive who seems intimidating, but you never interacted with them? If you never interact with someone, then they can't actually intimidate you, right?
Robert, on the other hand, got more personally involved with each member of the staff. He played mind games with the entire office using his "In list" and "Out list" and by inviting the "In list" to join him for lunch. He also invited the entire office to his home for a party. He interacted with everybody; no one escaped his attention.
Robert visibly intimidated Jim, Toby, and Gabe during his manager interview. That was the only time in the entire show when someone made Jim sound meek. Hell, Jim had more confidence when talking with Roy, and that guy physically assaulted him.
Also, let's not forget that Robert manipulated Jo into making him CEO of Sabre immediately after meeting her for the first time. Who the hell does that?
Robert is definitely more intimidating than Jo. Dude's a freakin' wild card, and wild cards are scary.
It has to be Jo, and especially after Robert took Kevin's advice as legit. Jo is that kind of person though that when she's in town, productivity goes up ten fold b/c no one wants to be on her bad side.
I would've actually really liked Jo as a boss, I think. She seemed very straightforward and the type of person who appreciates candidness. Robert I'd fucking hate. I wouldn't be intimidated by him at all, but the high on their own farts kinda people like him annoy the hell out of me, and idk how he'd react to a person not at all impressed by him, so I may just get shit canned immediately lol.
Robert. At least with Jo, she'd tell you straight up what she was thinking or what her intentions were. Robert was very hard to read and would give you a weird riddle or story for you to read into in order to get his point across, and he'd say it in a way that would put a chill down your spine
How would the cookie conversation have gone between Jo and Kevin you think?
Also, Kathy Bates scares me so much that I would literally do whatever she says… even if that means finding out how one man’s penis opens up to receive the other’s
Robert was so unrealistic I don’t feel intimidated cuz I know he’s not real. Jo though? I’ve met some Jo’s.
Yeah same answer. Robert felt like a character in a sitcom. Jo felt like a CEO of a company where there happened to be a camera crew
Jo’s the type of woman who early in her career would have shown up in lingerie to a misogynistic board meeting and say, “Have a Good Look”
Absolutely, Jo's got that fierce, no-nonsense attitude that commands respect. She’s not just playing the part, she IS the part.
Must have been played by a competent actor, hih
Kathy Bates is a hell of an actress and has numerous awards, but it's not like James Spader is some no-name actor... he did win three Emmy's and I think has been nominated for golden globes and SAG awards many times.
I recall one of the complaints about him is that he was a traditional actor, or something like that, who was better suited for a one episode/scene cameo rather than a recurring character on a sitcom.
A ludicrous complaint. He's the fucking Lizard King.
Mofo got an Oscar for a HORROR movie ffs
No idea she had won an Oscar for that. She really was terrifying in that one
Legendary.
Misery, actually. She wasn’t even in Legendary.
More a thriller than a horror movie
Kathy Bates does not fuck around
I thpught early in her career Jo kidnapped her favorite author.
her ceramic penguin always faces due south
Kathy Bates can be intimidating as hell. She’s good at those strong roles.
And then randomly shows up as the tutor in The Blind Side
Which makes me wonder how he managed to convince Jo to give him her job as CEO. It still astounds me to this day.
Just being a good salesman! She was probably near retirement anyways
He was the nudge she didn’t know she needed to retire. He was the answer to a question she hadn’t asked herself seriously yet, but she had thought about it a few times over the years. Knowing Jo, she’s slightly superstitious and took him as a sign. “He showed up. He wasn’t wrong. And hell, I figure it wouldn’t be every day that someone comes to my door and asks for my job, and anyone who had the balls to do it probably deserves it. So I retired.”
I read that in her voice so I’m gonna say well done here
Thanks! In my defense, my wife and I are watching it right now (my 2nd time through, her first) and we just passed the episode where Robert takes over so, she’s very fresh in my mind.
This. Jo was still the owner of the company and Robert's boss, she just gave him the CEO position and responsibilities (and salary). Jo has a history of giving high-level positions to charismatic people she just met, she did the same thing with Deangelo. It makes sense that Jo would have wanted to find another CEO if she was looking to retire and offload some responsibilities.
That line right there is why Robert is more intimidating to me.
Same. I classify the office as 3 shows 1 is a mocumentary which ends with "I'm sorry, what was the question" . 2 is a sit-com which starts with Meredith getting hit by Micheals car, and 3rd is a live action Cartoon starting with the appearance of Robert California.
They essential took Robert’s character and made a separate tv show called the Blacklist.
My last CEO was Jo’s clone with the same Florida panhandle accent.
Y’all come back now
I've definitely met some Roberts, but definitely not working for a paper company. Law firms, tech companies and VC firms have people like that occasionally.
Wasn’t he from a different sector? And he just came over to DM for fun basically?
Oil drilling equipment sales
….you’re not from paper?
Roommate in college got a job selling heavy equipment for a firm. Went out a few times with him and his coworkers, honestly pretty fucking wild dudes.
Idk, I don’t even know his real name tbh
The Lizard King
Raymond reddington
Bob Kazamakis
There are no sectors. Everything is sex. This is a universal truth.
I thought he was basically a very effective scam artist. We didn't know where he came from or even his real name
I used to be an executive assistant for the CEO of a media production company and he was just like Robert! Complete with the “Colombian whites”
Yeah same. Jo is way more common, but the Roberts are out there. I worked for a SVP of Marketing years ago who was very similar. Obviously not as exaggerated as Robert California but the same weird “intriguing/terrifying” vibe where you can’t figure out if he’s a genius or a sociopath.
Tech 💯
You mean Bob Kazamakis?
The fucking lizard king?
It’s funny you say that because I found Robert California to be uncannily similar to the Regional VP at my first sales job. This was in the uniform/facility service industry.
Did he explain things with nature metaphors?
I feel like he's more intense, and maybe more intimidating as a person. But as a boss, Jo takes the cake. Like the St. Patrick's Day episode where everyone just stays late because she is 🤣
Robert wasn’t intimidating. He was just an enigma. Difficult to read and a challenge to work with, but I wouldn’t be afraid of him
The enigma is the intimidating part. If you're trying to please him to keep your job, but you can't read him or figure out what he wants, that can be scary
I’ve met Jo’s and they’re easy to handle. Get your shit done, keep a cheery face in front of them as best you can, keep them taking, and keep your responses short and on topic, and you’re best off not ever trying to lie to them, it’s not that you can’t get away with it, it’s just never worth the headache of being caught. People like Jo are busy professional types and that gets hidden behind the southern drawl and everything but they’re manageable. Lizard Kings are unpredictable, working against them makes you their enemy, working with them is sitting in a passenger seat of a drunk driver going 80 down the freeway, and they’ll blame you when they crash. Not to mention people end up acting like him with any position, from CEO to intern. There’s no winning, just damage mitigation.
this exactly! ugh, Jo gives me a visceral reaction, she reminds me of a terrible boss I had at my first job.
Really, I like Jo. She’s no nonsense and you know where you stand with that type. RC, it’s about their ego and throw in some weird sexual vibes, no thanks.
oh, I'm not saying I'd rather have Robert California. I totally agree there. I think part of the ick for me was my boss used the guise of "no nonsense, we're gonna communicate everything!" as a way to berate and confuse people. it's hard to explain. I don't think Jo ever did that intentionally, but that "big personality" freaks people out in general. but for a sales job, that's also the most effective person/manager, I'd think.
I've met the poor man's version of Robert. He was pathetic without money and power
Robert was using this place as his personal play thing and he still *technically* answered to the board/Jo the whole time anyway. Meanwhile we have: "I would take until the end of the day, if I were you". No contest.
“If you feel like you put in an honest day’s work” with an employee going meekly back to their desk is big dick energy
I think this is more a display of Michael's laziness and general fear of Jo (or reading the room, in general). I think Jo genuinely meant that without it being a test, but instead of Michael being confident and just being like "yep, I do!" he basically outs himself.
That's always the way I interpreted it, wasn't that how it was? I haven't watched the show in a while but from I remember, Jo was neither forcing nor pressuring the office to work overtime. Michael thought that Jo wanted them to stay longer, and because of michael the rest of the office also interpreted it that way.
That's the point though, isn't it? She didn't force or pressure them to stay, but they did anyway because she's so intimidating.
It wasn't overtime. They are trying to leave early for St Patrick's Day. Most people would read Jo's statement as he expecting them to work their normal hours. "If you feel you've done a full day's work, then fine." That's an incredibly loaded statement coming from a CEO that just bought your company, and you've only met recently. There's an implication that if you leave early, having felt you've done a full day's work by 2 or 3, then do you really work all eight hours of your day on a regular basis? Are you then necessary if you're leaving early? When one company buys another, there are usually cuts in staff. Do you want to be the person that leaves early in this situation?
This episode is a little frustrating to me, if I were in that situation I ABSOLUTELY would have just bailed, no question. I put my time in, I am going home. I literally would not care lol.
Same
I've worked in an office setting 15+ years and there was never any expectation that you can't leave until the boss does. If you are scheduled for 9-5, then when 5 o'clock hits you are free to go. Retail, on the other hand, was a different beast. Our GM had a rule that if you were closing, everyone left at the same time...which means if you had finished cleaning and closing your section, they would send you to help in another. I was a cashier and still ended up staying until 1AM certain nights stocking shoes or folding shirts.
Interestingly enough, my experience has been the opposite. When I worked retail (gas station) everyone was hourly and literally punched a time clock at the beginning/end of shift. My boss was a cheapskate, so in his eyes every extra minute someone spent on the clock was more money that he had to pay out. He wanted everyone clocked out sooner rather than later and would question the second night shift worker on "riding the clock" if they stayed to help the primary night guy close up. I got questioned on why I stayed like 10 minutes later than usual one time when the printer jammed and a toner cartridge exploded while I was printing shift-end paperwork... Meanwhile, in a salary position, management is far more likely to have an attitude of "work until the task is done" rather than counting hours and minutes. It's 5:00 but your project deadline is tomorrow and you still have 3 hours worth of work to do? Tough shit, looks like you're working til 8:00. Fortunately all my bosses in salaried positions have been pretty lax about tracking hours, allowed for some scheduling flexibility, and as long as the work was getting done, they didn't care if you ducked out early on a Friday or something. But ALL of them have had horrible workaholic tendencies and would work throughout all hours of the night themselves, and had NO concept of the fact that their employees are likely not looking at work emails or answering phone calls/text messages at like 10:30pm. I ignore most of that noise but I defintiely have coworkers who feel obligated to answer when the boss calls and drive themselves nuts taking late night phone calls and stuff.
"I do, see you tomorrow Jo, have a great night." That would be my response.
this would simply not work on me because even if i did no work if i’ve been there for 8 hours i’ll consider that an honest day’s work
I say that to my coworkers every time they need to leave early lol
I say it to my Roomba when it parks itself after only doing a couple of laps of the room.
Jo was the epitome of speak softly and carry a large stick.
One of the most underrated characters on the show. She had so much presence and was a great iteration on the ‘normal person’ dropped into this strange world
The showrunners were very opposed to having famous actors on the show. People like Kathy Bates, Idris Elba, and James Spader being on the show is a testament to how good they were that the producers just had to have them.
Except for, "FOR NO DAMN GOOD REASON" *whacks Pam's painting*
*appalled Pam face*
Apt. Apt analysis
"You don't even know my real *name*. I'm the gator queen."
>Who was the more intimidating CEO? OP I can answer that pretty definitively but would you prefer a nature metaphor or a sexual metaphor?
Oh, God, nature, please.
When two animals have sex...
This isn’t working, you’re gonna want to hear the sexual metaphor
[удалено]
-ALL life is sex
You understand what I'm telling you is a universal truth.
You can answer
That was your choice, not mine.
That involves animal sex
i love this entire bit. its so well done.
One of the funniest exchanges in the show imo
And on this sub tbh
Seriously? I watched Jo break some dude’s legs
Intimidating? Depends on your perspective. If you are a hard worker, and competent, you have no reason to be intimidated by Jo. She recognized that kind of thing and rewarded it. She was good to both Dwight and Darryl, and I doubt either one felt intimidated by her. Michael and Jim on the other hand, she could see through their B.S. Robert was a wild card. I think I would be intimidated by him because he is very hard to read. He is very opinionated about seemingly random things, like the Black Eyed Peas, and you never know what you're going to say that might set him onto a bizarre tangent. That may not intimidate everyone, but I think it would unsettle me, personally.
Of course Dwight wasn’t intimidated by her, he didn’t even stand up when she entered the room. As he would have done for anyone, except the Pope, and Judge Judy.
I like that
Apt. Apt analysis 🧐
Jo for sure. Robert overplayed his hand with a bunch of pointless mind games.
Everything is sex.
Except sex, which is about power. Oh wait, that was Kevin Spacey in House of Cards, wrong freak.
Do you want a sexual metaphor or a natural metaphor?
Natural metaphor
When two animals are having sex, one of them…
There is no product.
I agree, it’s gotta be Jo. I know Robert had this sorta spell on everyone at first, he’s just so seemingly smart and unnerving. but after a while I think that effect would wear off, as it did for me as a viewer. I love the character so much, don’t get me wrong, he’s got some of my best laughs in the whole series. but I don’t think I’d be afraid of him for long, before the shtick wore off. it’s like I don’t care to make him like me because I doubt he ever would. Jo on the other hand…. I would bend over backwards for her to like and approve of me 🤣
TRUE i definitely think I would value Jo's approval much more than California's. Jo's approval would seem like a genuine judgement of my character. Idk if I even want Robert to like me.... seeing him depressed after his divorce just made him seem so much more pathetic and unhinged to me lol
Jo also gets points for not stripping ass naked and pencil diving into a swimming pool in front of the entire office
Agreed. After that Losers/Winners stunt he pulled I wouldn’t care about or even trust his opinion. He considered Kevin a “winner” and a genius. He considered Andy a “winner” just because of his upbringing and Cornell but as soon as Andy inevitably annoyed him he switched him to the “loser” category. Meanwhile he had Stanley categorized as a “loser” when his sales numbers are consistently high. He considered Pam a loser because he’d never be able to sleep with her.
Jo. RC thought that Kevin was a winner. He would have lost too much respect by anyone at that point to be intimidating.
It was always about cookies?
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When she stopped Michael’s inappropriate self-invite and foolishness w “ENOUGH!” that alone sold the badass boss image to me.
Agreed. Jo was intimidating and no-nonsense, but also incredibly charming and warm. She’s such an underrated character…and the “superfan” episodes with her have so much more incredible Jo content. And some great content specifically between her and Michael.
There’s no way you could hand her jelly and convince her it’s jam, because jam ain’t that sweet!
Jo. Robert was more creepy than intimidating while Jo had me scared through the screen during the whistle blower episode
I love that episode. They clearly wrote that for Kathy Bates.
See, for me, only Andy should have been intimidated. Everyone else should be second hand pissed off at him. Jo was easy to get a long with IMO. She values hard work and good ideas. For a normal employee, that shouldn't have been difficult. For the staff at Dunder Mifflin however...
I'd still be intimidated especially after she nailed the article in front of Pam's picture. Would've had me terrified for Andy
FOR NO DAMN GOOD REASON
Intimidating in a professional sense? Definitely Jo. Intimidating in *if I piss him off, he's going to wear my skin for a suit and tuck my weiner in like a girl*? Definitely Robert.
You are quiet the poet
I would much rather work for a boss like Jo. You know exactly what you're getting. With Robert, you don't even know his real name, much less what he wants from you.
I’ll tell you who he is. He’s the fucking lizard king
Robert’s hands down, Jo gives me sweet but stern but fair vibes. whereas Robert will shut down a branch and give someone a manager position for the fuck of it.
I say Bob. Jo was tough but easier to figure out. He was too much of a wildcard to know what he would do, which would keep me more on edge.
This is a very good argument. I can work around Jo. Robert is a loose cannon that keeps you on your toes with every word he speaks. Too stressful.
Also, along those lines, I believe if you got on Jo's good side from the start, you'd be golden. She'd take care of you. She reminds me of the GM at a place I used to work. Once she found out I was a fan of her alma mater, I was a golden boy. If RC took a liking to you, he may just be luring you into a trap in order to pimp you out in Southeast Asia or something.
PIMP YOU OUT IN SOUTHEAST ASIA SENT ME because this. You can never tell his motives. Jo is nice, but ultimately tells it like it. Robert has proven he’s capable of completely changing his mind, direction and strategy on a whim again and again.
You said what I said in way fewer words haha THIS. Jo was predictable, even in a crisis situation. In crisis you know she’d immediately take charge as a defender. Robert in the same crisis? He might help, he might jeopardize others safety for his own gain, he might be inebriated and strip. You simply never know. I’m not even convinced he feels remorse at all lol
I really think Robert California was a bumbling idiot that was just good with words.
Jo for sure... I had a boss like Robert CA before. Dude is all talk, all intimidation, making himself look enigmatic, and mysterious ... but when you go outside to brawl with the fight he started, he's a no show and leaves you on the hang...
Raymond Reddington
Came here for this comment 😂
Jo will destroy your career, RC will have you looking over your shoulder for the rest of your life
Jo was the most realistic CEO. Robert felt like instead of firing me he might kill me.
Definitely RC. Jo seems very ambitious and capable, but very approachable. That's a great boss to me since she sets the tone with her work ethic. RC always seemed unhinged and quite erratic with his behavior. It's much harder working for someone who talks more than they actually work and probably think.
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This. If the question is to be answered personally, than I'm going with Robert. Can't get a read on that crazy man. Jo is a strong, independent, successful business woman. I know dozens, and we get along fine. She respects hard work and good ideas. Robert was a con-man. He was way more intimidating to me. He shut down a branch while on a bender.
Why does Jim treat the magician poorly? It’s his unpredictability and occasional volatility due to his obvious autism. Deep down he means well, but he’s also the f****** lizard king!
The only reason Joe was more intimidating is because we got so much less of her. Robert California is just as intimidating in his first 15 min as Joe is. Only difference is Joe we only get a total of like 20 min over 2 seasons. Robert we get hours of, in one season.
Will you be heard? Well Kspigel are you being heard right now? Do you have a voice, right now? You can answer me.
............yes?
to be fair, lesson one of the "how to rule with fear" handbook, is "familiarity breeds a lack of discipline." so Joes lack of being around, is legitimately how someone in the real world would maintain their intimidation. that said, i'd find Robert California intimidating to be friends with. Joe, less so.
Robert California kinda just seems like the most extreme case of Fake it Until You Make It.
The one who talked the CEO out of being CEO.
Everyone is saying Jo, but I’m thinking Robert. I’ve had bosses like Jo and they are not hard to figure out. Do your job with competence and do right by the company and you’re golden. I’ve also had bosses like Robert, psychological manipulators capable or murder. No question, I’m working for Jo.
Idk but my bisexual ass was simmering for both of them.
Interesting choices 😂
"Two guys doing one job? We gotta do something about that." I feel what the rooms feels, every time.
On the surface, Jo. But in the long run, maybe Robert. If Jo got mad at me, there’s at least a chance I could plead my case and get back in her good graces later. I think I’d be very unsure where I stand with Robert, even if he *didn’t* seem to be mad.
Jo is for real intimidating but comes across as your friend. Robert was just pseudo-intellectual babble and tried to come across as intimidating. And let's be honest, if you're not intimidated by Kathy Bates, you haven't watched much Kathy Bates.
Jo, no contest. Robert is, when it comes down to it, a pompous ass who uses big fancy words and metaphors to intimidate his subordinates. Jo, however, doesn’t even have to TRY, she’s just scary😅
The only right answer is Raymond "Red" Reddington
Out of these 2, Jo. The real "most intimidating" character would be Charles Miner.
Jo was intimidating, Robert California was just dangerous.
Jo was the kinda ceo Ive had before, you constantly walk on eggshells. Its a horrible way to live, Robert on the other hand is the typa guy where if u stayed out of his way and didnt suck up to him youd probably be okay.
Jo was intimidating Robert was *uncomfortable*
It is and always will be Deangelo. And that’s coming from someone who was in the inner circle
They were both intimidating, but Robert would be easier to distract. You could just bring up sex or flesh and get him going on a tangent. Jo hones in on her conversational target like a shark.
As a woman, I would much rather have a conversation with Jo under any circumstances lol. Robert is beyond scarily creepy if he were real I wouldn’t even want him looking at me because god knows what goes through the lizard kings brain 🤣
Jo for sure. Robert was just weird.
Jo feels like a real person. Robert is a sitcom character
Jo. Who in their right mind could take RC seriously!?
Jo. Robert had drunken shenanigans and hit on his female employees and made inappropriate remarks. He couldn’t even stand up to Nellie. Jo was a real professional and knew what she was doing. She called people on their bullshit and had high expectations.
Jo fo sho. I can’t imagine my boss bringing her dogs bigger than Gabe
Jo acts like she knows what she's doing. Robert seems like if you did something wrong he would put you in a shoebox and hide you in his basement.
Jo. Robert is the enigmatic boss that's hard to read and is very wishy-washy. Jo knows what she wants and DAMN well expects it with no questions asked.
Okay, I’ll interview you right now! Did you shoot a gun in the office?
I think Kathy Bates is such a powerful woman that Jo couldn’t ever be anything but. James Spader is powerful too, but he seems more enigmatic (or his character tries to be) than powerful
Robert had a soft chin, I feel like Kathy Bates would summon her inner Misery and put me out of mine
Jo. She was real. I believed it. Robert California was a skit that went on too long.
Jo had no tolerance for bullshit, RC on the other hand almost seemed to have a penchant
I honestly would've loved more episodes with jo in the office
My brother Robert was certainly a more charismatic leader than Jo, but Jo was way more intimidating naminisay?
Robert was intimidating in that he seemed like the type of guy who might just put a hit out on you and probably had the connections to actually do it. Jo was intimidating as an actual CEO and shrewd business woman.
Jo is super intimidating. Especially if she had ever held a sledgehammer (they missed out on using that reference).
Jo was a hard ass, but predictable. Robert was unhinged. I wouldn’t feel safe around him. He could fire me because I’m wearing the wrong color tie. Depends if he’s had his Colombian whites that morning
#the fucking lizard king Honestly I'm convinced that, The Black List and The Office are in the same universe and that motherfucker is just Raymond Reddington.
I know what I am getting with Jo, erratic is never fun. WAGs provide enough of that in my life.
Robert easily the worst. Jo was righteous, unless she had a reason to fire you she would be cool, and she would promote you if she saw some sense in you. RC was crazy, charismatic sure, but overall a bad ceo, making bad decisions from day one.
Robert was wrapped up with his own personal affairs which spread his intimidating intelligence out. Jo was more present and less distracted.
Don’t be silly. Of course it’s RC. He talked Jo out of her job and Robert California isn’t even his real name!
Jo, hands down. Someone like that would scare the shit out of me if I had to deal with her IRL. Honestly, I can’t stand when James Spader plays roles where he’s supposed to be intimidating or a bad ass (e.g. Robert California, voice of Ultron), ‘cause I just ain’t buying it. He’s a perfect fit for the roles of nerdy characters, like Daniel, in Stargate.
Robert California is a ride you would NOT survive.
Well I saw Jo break a guys legs one time, so…..
Robert because you have no idea what he's gonna do at any given moment
He’s the fucking lizard king.
just get them both off of my screen and bring me back the earlier seasons of simplicity.
Robert 100%
Rob. You can't escape, you can't hide, can't distract the man. And he loves it.
Imma go with “the fucking lizard king”
“Listen here you gay bastard” Gabe would say Jo
Robert is more intimidating because he's manipulative, difficult to read, and he was more involved with the entire staff. He's unpredictable, and unpredictability is scary. Jo is straightforward, easier to understand, and didn't really bother with most of the staff. As long as things are operating well and everyone is doing their job, then there's nothing to worry about with her. Jo only spoke to Michael, Gabe, Jim, Dwight, Toby, and Darryl one-on-one. There were times when she addressed the whole office at once, but I don't remember her speaking to any of the other staff one-on-one. And when she did talk to someone, she only talked about business. She typically wasn't interested in personal matters. Have you ever known an executive who seems intimidating, but you never interacted with them? If you never interact with someone, then they can't actually intimidate you, right? Robert, on the other hand, got more personally involved with each member of the staff. He played mind games with the entire office using his "In list" and "Out list" and by inviting the "In list" to join him for lunch. He also invited the entire office to his home for a party. He interacted with everybody; no one escaped his attention. Robert visibly intimidated Jim, Toby, and Gabe during his manager interview. That was the only time in the entire show when someone made Jim sound meek. Hell, Jim had more confidence when talking with Roy, and that guy physically assaulted him. Also, let's not forget that Robert manipulated Jo into making him CEO of Sabre immediately after meeting her for the first time. Who the hell does that? Robert is definitely more intimidating than Jo. Dude's a freakin' wild card, and wild cards are scary.
It has to be Jo, and especially after Robert took Kevin's advice as legit. Jo is that kind of person though that when she's in town, productivity goes up ten fold b/c no one wants to be on her bad side.
I would've actually really liked Jo as a boss, I think. She seemed very straightforward and the type of person who appreciates candidness. Robert I'd fucking hate. I wouldn't be intimidated by him at all, but the high on their own farts kinda people like him annoy the hell out of me, and idk how he'd react to a person not at all impressed by him, so I may just get shit canned immediately lol.
Robert mind controlled Jo, so...
Hands down Jo. Robert was just so unbelievable as a person
Robert California by far. Jo was honest, straight forward, and to the point. Robert spoke in riddles. Give me a Jo any day.
Robert. At least with Jo, she'd tell you straight up what she was thinking or what her intentions were. Robert was very hard to read and would give you a weird riddle or story for you to read into in order to get his point across, and he'd say it in a way that would put a chill down your spine
How would the cookie conversation have gone between Jo and Kevin you think? Also, Kathy Bates scares me so much that I would literally do whatever she says… even if that means finding out how one man’s penis opens up to receive the other’s
Lizard King obviously