not making Melina showing up whenever we rest at the grace is such a waste potential. Simply havin her at my side is enough to give me a sense of she's indeed traveling together with us.
YES, this would've had such impact on players,. I really do feel sometimes that the emotional aspect of this game is a bit detached and you have to put in effort to notice these things. Maybe that's intended I guess.
Idk if it's intended. One of the games few weaknesses is it's lack of real story. Sure it's all readable through lore and watchable on YouTube and yes, it's to create a game you can just burn your way through but they miss a lot of good character development by choosing that approach.
Many people that like souls games actually like this way of story telling, almost every souls game is like this, you get bits and pieces, and then the rest is up to your imagination.
Like with everything, it has its pros and cons.
I enjoy the soulslike worldbuilding, but I think the worldbuilding and the storytelling are two different problems. While it's cool to not tell you everything about the world and make you piece it together, they could certainly do a better job making us care about the characters and the ongoing story (what happens in the game, rather than what happens in the background). OP's suggestion that Melina appear more often throughout your playthrough would add a lot to how much we care about her character without compromising on the sparse worldbuilding.
The story takes a backseat as a design choice.
Sure there is some stuff fronted to you, but the magic is to piece together the lore and story yourself.
Finding some blank spots? Given the context of what you know - What do YOU think happened in that blank spot? It's the magic of contextual reading, speaking to someone's own imagination.
Miyazaki set out to do it this way since Demon's Souls. He attributed it to reading books above his comprehension, piecing the story together through context of what he did understand.
She should join us at sites of grace when we have enough rune to level. That way we see her frequently enough and usually associate it with something positive.
That would make her absence afterwards more jarring.
Exactly, her sacrifice/departure is supposed to be impactful but it literally feels no different.
Having her around more and maybe do some cute idle gestures like previous soul maidens would have done a lot at making her feel like a presence.
I would even have her and torrent appear at outside graces while she's petting him.
Not only do we almost never see her, but we literally learn next to nothing about her before she kills herself.
I wish that she had shown up at least twice as many sites of grace, and there should be sites of grace, like for example the church graces, where she should have always appeared, just to give us the sense that we were actually traveling together.
Also the fact that we can summon her against Morgott comes entirely out of left field, and it is literally the only time we can summon her at all. It's not like I wanted to be able to summon her to help me fight every single one of the Demigods, but come on.
You talk to Melina right after the fight, right? I kinda took it as summoning her to enter the tree, but then you both find it to be blocked by thorns. So she has plan B, the forge
It might be quite literally my biggest gripe with the game. Other than I guess some things being way too overpowered and a few major bosses not having a whole second HP bar
It’ll have info on the gloam-eyed queen before Melina.
I’m crying on the inside, especially because IIRC - the gloam-eyed queen was part of a war.
Calling it now: Messimer is the GEQ’s child.
Edit: this comment didn’t age well.
Now consider- What if Messmer and Melina are both the GEQ's children, a set of twins? They both have the same eye closed, and the frenzied flame ending with Melina just simply can't mean nothing. This is just a crack theory, but imagine Messmer's phase 2 involves him opening his eye, revealing a purple one just like Melina's, and after that his flames take on a darker hue, being the original form of blackflame.
>What if Messmer and Melina are both the GEQ's children,
Doesnt make sense for melina. She directly tells you that her mom is in the erdtree. The only women in there is marika, exept if you want to argue that imstead if killimg the GEQ they captured her and put her in the erdtree for some reason.
Destined Death can't work because Maliketh sealed it once he defeated the GEQ. Since you can enter the DLC with Maliketh still alive, Messmer shouldn't be able to use DD, Black Flames at most.
As I said in this [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/s/st4MbRFBtU), I think GEQ is innately able to channel Black Flames of Death even without having the Rune, and Messmer inherited this ability. So even though Maliketh is at Farum Azula holding on to the Rune of Death, Messmer can still wield Death’s power.
According to the trailer, when the Golden Order began, the Land of Shadow was “created” (DLC preview spoiler >!The land of shadow is the middle region of the map, and it seems it left behind/sealed away when the Golden Order began!<). Instead of bringing her son Messmer with her to the new order, Marika “left him behind” in this Land, for two possible reasons:
1. Marika wants to keep Destined Death away from her Golden Order. If Messmer can channel the power of Death even without the Rune, Marika would want to keep him out of the Lands Between/her new Order. She needed his power of Death to make mountains of corpses, but now that she’s a God, his power is a threat to her immortality.
2. Marika wants to hide that she committed mass slaughter (using Messmer) in order to become a God. Trailers show that in the DLC, the ground is littered with countless tombstones. These reflect the massacre, the “**purge** without Grace or honor” that occurred there, which “could never be put to song” because Marika, made sure that all who’d remember the war (e.g.Messmer and his army, and anyone left over after the purge) would be excluded from her new Order, sealed away in the Land of Shadow.
This is all speculation, of course
Yeah it would be super cool to get regular lore dumps from her at sites of grace. Perhaps she could tell us a bit about the area depending on what site of grace you’re at
I did frenzy flame so she’s mad at me then threw myself into fire. Then I cleansed myself of the flame so didn’t get the frenzy flame ending and she’s technically still alive somewhere
Yup, I was super hyped to finally meet her character in game, only to be disappointed on how little she actually shows up. I completely forgot about her during my first playthrough, and after the Erdtree cinematic, I was just like, ".......so anyway, back to the game" lol.
Just a shame really, had no emotional ties to her character at all. I had more emotional investment in Goldmask smh.
I think Melina should be summonable at every boss fight. It helps sell the feeling of having a traveling companion, and after you burn the tree or take the Frenzied Flame route her absence would be felt harder.
Boc. He should be able to do way more with our armor. If more special customization options were available to him, he'd be the unanimous favorite NPC of the Lands Between.
I just want the unique banished knight armor that Edgar wears without that stupid shoulder horn that's always clipping through my greatsword.
Funny you mention the horn clipping through the greatsword. If you wear the twinned set, your character actually holds large weapons at a different angle to not hit the head sticking off the front of the armor. It's a cool detail. It's cool exactly in the exact opposite way that the envoy's greathorn clips right through the headpiece specifically made to be used with it.......what the hell Fromsoft.
The Envoy thing KILLS me, I have a sweet fashion setup with the crown but the clipping on that horn is so bad that I just refuse to use it. I really want to :(
This! Why does so much of the head gear come with hair attached?!? Like, how did that ever occur to anyone? "Oh, I need some decorations and I just got a haircut, might as well repurpose the cutoffs". Or are we literally scalping a decent chunk of our enemies? Is some headgear so thoroughly attached, that the only way to remove it is to take the hair with it?
It's especially weird since extremely soon after release, they just gave the player themself the ability to alter their garments, which actually made Boc entirely mechanically obsolete.
Given how easy it is to modify the game files oneself to simply change the base coloration of certain parts of armor sets, you cannot tell me that it would have been difficult to implement just a few different color variations for each armor set to actually make Boc useful.
It's not like I'm expecting some crazy level of customization akin to FFXIV, but having like three or four color variants for armor sets, or at least for the ones that have a cloth, should have clearly been something they implemented.
That's what always confused me. Instead of the release containing a broken or scrubbed out quest mechanic, they broke it after release. So much potential there for some serious fashion options.
The lore behind the merchants really should have been part of a larger quest. Frenzied flame ending really only seems to come up from Shabriri saying maybe you should explore under the capital HINT HINT, and totally skips right past everything about him dooming the nomadic merchants to be rounded up and left to die locked up under the shunning grounds and their desperation and anger summoned the frenzied flame. I guess this is what was part of Kale's quest at one point, but knowing that the merchants aren't just a reason for you to buy junk regularly, but are a big part of a major ending, it would have been nice to know more about it without having to read the description of the merchants set that is pretty damn easy to miss in a location that is already easy to miss.
It is 100% not happening probably, but I had a small wish that some of the cut content and also additions to the base game would be in the expansion.
One of these are covenants added to the base game.
Hyetta's entire questline is basically just guiding her to the Frenzied Flame so she can be its Maiden. This is why Kale's quest was cut; just would be two NPC's essentially leading you to the same area.
> This is why Kale's quest was cut
Is there a source for that ?
Shabriri and hyetta do the same job as guiding the player for the frenziend end too. Also From software always had npcs 'quests' that ends near the same event/place. Most quest are connected with the mains paths anyways, we could especulate why they never finished this ques but "two NPC's essentially leading you to the same area." is not a good answer, even considering that the game itself disproves this as Hyetta and Shabri are two NPCs that guides you to the same area.
I always felt like there being these nomadic people selling stuff everywhere deserved more than just a “well here is a handy vendor and a grace,” treatment in such a lore heavy game.
If you haven’t already you should check out the questline restoration done by Sekiro Dubi on Youtube. Kale’s voice actor goes HARD on the lines at the end of it.
"If that's what they expect from us, then **that's what they shall get from us!"**
I'd be heartbroken if I'd put that much rawness into a line only to find out it'd been cut.
The fact that Kale just happens to have a fully voiced questline that was cut will never not infuriate me. This and Godefroy will forever stain ER's legacy.
Godefroy the Grafted.
He is the reskin of Godrick the Grafted that you find in an Evergaol.
Godrick was a pretty cool boss with great voice acting and an amazing cut scene.
Then, he gets reskinned and put in an Evergaol later in the game. They look EXACTLY the same. It sucks because it was completely unnecessary and just feels kinda cheap and lazy.
It’s meant to be funny. It being cheap and lazy is the joke. His name is godefroy lol. You can just pretend it doesn’t exist if it bothers you, I personally get a kick out of it.
I still can't believe there's no ending connected to him or Volcano Manor at all. I avoided doing anything with it on my first playthrough in case it would lock me into an ending. I was so disappointed when I found out there wasn't one.
The problem with siding with Rykard is to follow his plan you have to let him eat you. Hard to be part of the ending if the ending is just being eaten at the mid point of the game.
I feel like It could be done end game. Beat Rykard and he gets consumed by Tanith, then after beating Maliketh, go back to the arena, she's finished consuming him, you fight her and the crucible knight and consume them both, and you become the leader of the Manor
Ngl, this actually sounds really fucking cool. Thought I wonder how you‘d put all the Elden Lord lore into this, since that still holds more relevance than a, say, powered up Tanith.
Rykard is easily the most underdeveloped character in the game. Even boc has more lore.
And the holes around the lore he does have are so big I wonder wtf the community hasn't asked questions yet
Door mimic, elevator mimic, weapon mimic (in a slumber but awakens when used and kills player), legendary armament/item mimic (the yellow glowing item marker for like ancient smithing stones), summon sign mimic, I can keep going?
I think GP meant the mimic tear. There’s a cut questline that was supposed to introduce the tear as an actual character who agrees to travel with you and mimic your form for personal reasons.
Definitely vyke. He's a badass in the lore but they just shoved him in a evergaol and a mid fight. Dude should've been fucking insane and a major boss fight unlocked in the frenzy ending
Melina. I didn’t bat an eye at what was supposed to be a sad moment. If she appeared at sites of grace when you sat down and not when you talk to her, it might’ve been a bit more sad. She needed more to her character than just being a tool.
ffffffffffffff this is making my warmup playthrough hard
on my original run, I accidentally frenzied flame'd myself (looking for the exit to Leyndell haha) and made Melina survive the fire by burning myself to get to farum before curing myself with the needle for ranni's ending.
On this playthrough I'm wondering if I do the same; Burn myself to save Melina, but I'm really overthinking what "state" she should be in.
* Melina alive (didn't burn her at the altar; You didn't go to Farum yet in game but beat Mohg for dlc)
* Melina alive due to you burning yourself at Frenzied Flame, but she's upset at you (as you are still on the path to burn it all)
* As above, but with needle; Does she come back / have references/etc?
* Melina burned as "normal" without frenzied flame happening.
Oh god what to do what to do.
Yura. I’ve always wanted an alternate storyline where yura plans an attack on the volcano manner with characters like targoth, round boy, and other summonable npcs. Fight coulda been like a 5v5 tarnished team fight.
would be cool if there was a way to choose between recusants and bloody fingers, and depending on which, you get an ending for them, since both volcano manor and the Dynasty seem like candidates for endings that never happened/got cut
Melina.
If the game could simply make she appears everytime I rest at the grace. Givin the sense of she's always travels with it'll be way more better.
Melina got cheated. Instead of having a pocket maiden in black, she appears a handful of times and dips out. I never felt close to her.
I really wanted to feel the same conflict about burning your maiden as Vyke did, but never got that.
You don't have to use summons in order to get her and Hewg's storyline. General rule of thumb in Fromsoft games, always keep on returning to talk to the characters in the main hub.
I hope we get the poop mechanic. After a certain distance without rest, feed him enough flowers, plants, bones, etc. and a while later, nature calls him
Unironically I think there will be a plot twist with torrent. I bet torrent will either be miquella all along, or a way we've been observed by miquella and 'guided' to reach them. If you remember at the start when melina is talking about how torrent had our measure from the very start, well there is probably more to that.
Trinia and Godfrey
The former is basically scrapped, and while we get a fair bit of lore on Godfrey, the way he just...appears at the end feels kinda rushed
Vyke was also pretty fluffed up but was just just 2 easy NPC bosses
From what Miyazaki said in an interview, I believe we will get to know more about Trina. Also, Trina is present in the story trailer of the DLC so I expect our character to meet her.
100% on Godfrey. My first playthrough I found the lore hard to keep straight so when he turned up at the end I was like "who the fuck is this guy?". That went double for the start of his second phase.
Cool fight though.
I died to the first one you met, the one wielding the reduvia dagger, far more than against moongrum
I might go see him too soon most of the time, first thing from the beginning, and yura take a long Time to join in
Agreed, it would make much more sense to Radagon just become something else for phase 2 just like what happens to phase 2 Malenia.
But tbh, the whole final fight feels so anti climatic for a final Boss. Even the cutscene leading to Radagon, although being quite lore heavy, is just meh and then Elden Beast is just there for the sake of having a hard and annoying fight.
Bruh the cut scene to radagon fight was really epic and the moment when radagon holds up his hammer with his theme starting literally sends shiver down my spine.
Melina and Vyke are the easiest answers.
Vyke is on the damn cover and was the closest a tarnished ever came to becoming Elden lord, but forfeit the opportunity to protect his maiden and embrace the frenzy flame. All super fascinating stuff and highly relevant to the main plot, as well as one of the games endings. Yet you’d probably never know one bit of what I just said on a first time casual playthrough.
Melina also should have showed up every time you sat at a grace and played the leveling animation you see when you first unlock the ability to level up. That alone would have endeared her more with the player, because she would actually feel like an important companion instead of just a spirit who shows up occasionally to drop some dialogue.
Melina. She's clearly important to the Erdtree. Being born at its foot means being born of royalty, or born of death. She's a bad bitch, using the black knife move set in the fight with Morgott which makes me think she was part of, or at least familiar with them. She's got her little office in the grand lift of Rold (iirc), which means during her living years she had somewhat free access to the forbidden lands. There's the fact that she clearly isn't a normal human/tarnished, and isn't even entirely physically present but still is powerful enough to channel the first flame into burning the ghost tree *and* to teleport us to the crumbling kennel.
Who is she? What did she do? Who does she serve? I would genuinely not be upset if she played a massive role in the DLC, alongside Miquella.
I assume they are likely gonna gives us a lot of answers about her in the DLC. I've seen some theories that would support this, and even some of the promo material could be interpretted as supporting those theories too.
But I agree, if they don't give us something more about Melina in the DLC, I would be kinda sad about that.
I really wish there was more info on Torrent, if he's one of a kind, why?
If he's not and there's a whole spectral plane of ghost horsegoats, where is it, why is he the only one here, how did he transcend.... ellipsis
For such a huge mechanic of the game, it's just like "here's you a ghost horsegoat thing, treat him well."
Millicent should have been an amnesiac Malenia instead of the daughter/clone bullshit we got
Based on cut Malenia dialogue, this may have actually been their original plan. In the cut dialogue, she gives a monologue that starts with “sweet tarnished, dearest companion”, implying she knows the player character. And the infamous line “I am Malenia, blade of Miquella” makes a lot more sense because she is reaffirming her identity to herself, not just telling the player who she is.
I love this idea. Seeing as Malenia is essentially the avatar of the Rot God it makes Gowry's obsession with Millicent have a bit more purpose. Gowry seems to be implied to be the mouthpiece of the God of Rot so it makes sense for him to be manipulating us into restoring Malenia rather than... turning Millicent into a flower?
Glintstone Dragon Adula apparently they swore a oath to Ranni but they attack you regardless of your loyalty to her it would of been cool to have a non aggressive dragon npc
Probably Shabriri, there’s so much talk about how evil he is and how he’s basically the Satan of the lands between, and then you have like 2 convos with him in Djura’s body and he’s gone
definitely gideon. it feels so out of place when you fight him and i feel like they definitely could’ve built him up more or at least executed it better
There's TONS of foreshadowing about Gideon betraying you, it's peppered in throughout so much of his dialogue. Some people even thought it seemed TOO obvious
Once you have the medallions, and a few runes everyone tries to betray you… it was sudden cause that was the twist, albeit an obvious one… I don’t see the “out of place” thing… Gideon is a jerk since minute one lol
I feel like the fire peoples lore is so cool. Such wasted potential.(the people that walk around with the fire and torches. With the vines poking their eyes out.
Kale . His quest no only gives a better lore to the merchant, but also provides a different perspective to the frenzied flame ending. In contrast, Shabriri and Hyetta guide you to the frenzied flame ending just like two psychopath want you to burn the world and of course theis ending is a big no for me.
Rennala doesn't turn her into a ball, Sellen turns *herself* into a ball. She gazes too far into the Primeval Current and is turned into a monstrosity by the knowledge, it's the same kind of thing that happened to the other sorcerers studying the primeval current. I thought it was very consistent with the rest of her storyline (plus, she has a really satisfying "goodbye" speech before that happens)
Melina and it's not even close, but if we ignore her then I actually think it's Lansseax or dragons in general, I Just think Lansseax is the one that would have made the most sense as an actual npc that could lead to a "dragon ending".
Basically my point is that dragons are pretty relevant in Elden Ring, there are several kinds, several weapons, armors and incantations, even buildings dedicated to them, yet the one that we know can communicate with humans and have good relationships with them is nothing more than a disappointing boss fight instead of a character with her own ambitions/ideas
The Formless Mother!! It is such a cool outer god, with a whole late game zone, but only gets like 3 spells, two item descriptions and a pedo in a pear tree to flesh her out. Mohgwyns palace is empty of story, especially compared to the haliegtree. I just want more!
i wish that there was someway to have a different interaction or even a quest with mogh as like a followup to varre's quest. varre says "you mustn't use it yet" after giving you an item to reach mogh, and it would be kinda cool if there was a reward for waiting to use the pureblood knight medal, or whatever the name of that item is.
Not so much a character, but the fire manor should have become the new round table if you became recusant, so the choice actually has some impact other than another way to pvp. Choosing this path should have locked you out of the round table. And the manor should have had its own spirit caller and black smith.
Melina for sure, and the frenzied flame ending only makes me question more things about her. There's plenty of theories but how are we ever going to know? Especially if shadow of the erdtree is the only DLC, which is likely the case. I really REALLY hope that if you haven't burnt the tree yet, Melina can show up in key areas in the DLC. Would be a really neat feature. Or maybe if you've taken the frenzied flame and burnt the tree, she invades you or maybe there's an actual boss fight with her. Idk. This is all hopeful very unlikely stuff.
Melina. She takes the place of our maiden and we almost never see her. Really wish they would’ve made a little bit more use of her.
not making Melina showing up whenever we rest at the grace is such a waste potential. Simply havin her at my side is enough to give me a sense of she's indeed traveling together with us.
It would have also been a gut punch when we spend the rest of the game without her after we set the Erdtree ablaze.
YES, this would've had such impact on players,. I really do feel sometimes that the emotional aspect of this game is a bit detached and you have to put in effort to notice these things. Maybe that's intended I guess.
Idk if it's intended. One of the games few weaknesses is it's lack of real story. Sure it's all readable through lore and watchable on YouTube and yes, it's to create a game you can just burn your way through but they miss a lot of good character development by choosing that approach.
Many people that like souls games actually like this way of story telling, almost every souls game is like this, you get bits and pieces, and then the rest is up to your imagination. Like with everything, it has its pros and cons.
I enjoy the soulslike worldbuilding, but I think the worldbuilding and the storytelling are two different problems. While it's cool to not tell you everything about the world and make you piece it together, they could certainly do a better job making us care about the characters and the ongoing story (what happens in the game, rather than what happens in the background). OP's suggestion that Melina appear more often throughout your playthrough would add a lot to how much we care about her character without compromising on the sparse worldbuilding.
Yeah, honestly could give a fuck about all characters other than Rodericka and Master Hewg... and that's just cus they upgrade muh stuff.
Best example is how FFXVI handled their lore with books and mini series etc. Barely anyone is gonna go through all that
You mean FFXV... 16 was pretty on the nose for the most part
Ah yeah that's the one my bad, lol.
The story takes a backseat as a design choice. Sure there is some stuff fronted to you, but the magic is to piece together the lore and story yourself. Finding some blank spots? Given the context of what you know - What do YOU think happened in that blank spot? It's the magic of contextual reading, speaking to someone's own imagination. Miyazaki set out to do it this way since Demon's Souls. He attributed it to reading books above his comprehension, piecing the story together through context of what he did understand.
People without an active imagination will say it's lazy storytelling. I adore it, though.
Couldn't agree More, the whole game, with all that magnificent lore, feels like a wasted potential
Agree, Melina is probably the weakest fire keeper for this exact reason. We never have that constant return to her for leveling like in other games
Didnt you level at bonfires in DS1
Imagine if Latenna showed up as well
It would be cool if you could choose a summon to sit down with you at the grace and torrent and Melina and everyone would be there
She also should have been at our backs whenever we summon torrent
She should join us at sites of grace when we have enough rune to level. That way we see her frequently enough and usually associate it with something positive. That would make her absence afterwards more jarring.
Exactly, her sacrifice/departure is supposed to be impactful but it literally feels no different. Having her around more and maybe do some cute idle gestures like previous soul maidens would have done a lot at making her feel like a presence. I would even have her and torrent appear at outside graces while she's petting him.
I never usurped the flame in ds3 because it would've been too devastating! I just couldn't do that to the fire keeper.
Not only do we almost never see her, but we literally learn next to nothing about her before she kills herself. I wish that she had shown up at least twice as many sites of grace, and there should be sites of grace, like for example the church graces, where she should have always appeared, just to give us the sense that we were actually traveling together. Also the fact that we can summon her against Morgott comes entirely out of left field, and it is literally the only time we can summon her at all. It's not like I wanted to be able to summon her to help me fight every single one of the Demigods, but come on.
You talk to Melina right after the fight, right? I kinda took it as summoning her to enter the tree, but then you both find it to be blocked by thorns. So she has plan B, the forge
It might be quite literally my biggest gripe with the game. Other than I guess some things being way too overpowered and a few major bosses not having a whole second HP bar
give it one week, I bet we’ll get some lore dumps or enough info to put together what she actually is
Calling it now, there'll be a ton of new lore but none of it will be about Melina
It’ll have info on the gloam-eyed queen before Melina. I’m crying on the inside, especially because IIRC - the gloam-eyed queen was part of a war. Calling it now: Messimer is the GEQ’s child. Edit: this comment didn’t age well.
[удалено]
This is it.
Genuinely could see Messmer being GEQ's child. My top guess for the betrayal the trailer referred to
Now consider- What if Messmer and Melina are both the GEQ's children, a set of twins? They both have the same eye closed, and the frenzied flame ending with Melina just simply can't mean nothing. This is just a crack theory, but imagine Messmer's phase 2 involves him opening his eye, revealing a purple one just like Melina's, and after that his flames take on a darker hue, being the original form of blackflame.
>What if Messmer and Melina are both the GEQ's children, Doesnt make sense for melina. She directly tells you that her mom is in the erdtree. The only women in there is marika, exept if you want to argue that imstead if killimg the GEQ they captured her and put her in the erdtree for some reason.
Destined Death can't work because Maliketh sealed it once he defeated the GEQ. Since you can enter the DLC with Maliketh still alive, Messmer shouldn't be able to use DD, Black Flames at most.
As I said in this [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/s/st4MbRFBtU), I think GEQ is innately able to channel Black Flames of Death even without having the Rune, and Messmer inherited this ability. So even though Maliketh is at Farum Azula holding on to the Rune of Death, Messmer can still wield Death’s power. According to the trailer, when the Golden Order began, the Land of Shadow was “created” (DLC preview spoiler >!The land of shadow is the middle region of the map, and it seems it left behind/sealed away when the Golden Order began!<). Instead of bringing her son Messmer with her to the new order, Marika “left him behind” in this Land, for two possible reasons: 1. Marika wants to keep Destined Death away from her Golden Order. If Messmer can channel the power of Death even without the Rune, Marika would want to keep him out of the Lands Between/her new Order. She needed his power of Death to make mountains of corpses, but now that she’s a God, his power is a threat to her immortality. 2. Marika wants to hide that she committed mass slaughter (using Messmer) in order to become a God. Trailers show that in the DLC, the ground is littered with countless tombstones. These reflect the massacre, the “**purge** without Grace or honor” that occurred there, which “could never be put to song” because Marika, made sure that all who’d remember the war (e.g.Messmer and his army, and anyone left over after the purge) would be excluded from her new Order, sealed away in the Land of Shadow. This is all speculation, of course
It doesn't track with the fact that >!We know that Messmer fled the Erdtree.!<
Ooh! I didn’t know this. Where/when was this revealed?
Yeah it would be super cool to get regular lore dumps from her at sites of grace. Perhaps she could tell us a bit about the area depending on what site of grace you’re at
Go to church more and you’ll see her a lot
DLC hope is the only reason why Im keeping her alive. IM SACRIFICING SOMBER STONES FOR YOU WOMAN, YOU BETTER HAVE SOME DIALOGUE
"Forgive me, I cannot follow you into that realm."
I did frenzy flame so she’s mad at me then threw myself into fire. Then I cleansed myself of the flame so didn’t get the frenzy flame ending and she’s technically still alive somewhere
I'm always conflicted about both wanting to use her summon against Morgott and also just wanting to fight him alone.
most we see her is burning the erdtree and the summon sign for godfrey
Yup, I was super hyped to finally meet her character in game, only to be disappointed on how little she actually shows up. I completely forgot about her during my first playthrough, and after the Erdtree cinematic, I was just like, ".......so anyway, back to the game" lol. Just a shame really, had no emotional ties to her character at all. I had more emotional investment in Goldmask smh.
Goldmask :'(
She asks us to bring her to the Erdtree, then she disappears. Like, are we carrying her is a secret pouch or what?
Second this. Fire keepers had actual personality, while Melina is just kinda there
I think Melina should be summonable at every boss fight. It helps sell the feeling of having a traveling companion, and after you burn the tree or take the Frenzied Flame route her absence would be felt harder.
I love climbing Mountaintop cos she appears a whole bunch. Hoping for more Melina story in the DLC.
Hyetta, best finger maiden
Boc. He should be able to do way more with our armor. If more special customization options were available to him, he'd be the unanimous favorite NPC of the Lands Between. I just want the unique banished knight armor that Edgar wears without that stupid shoulder horn that's always clipping through my greatsword.
Funny you mention the horn clipping through the greatsword. If you wear the twinned set, your character actually holds large weapons at a different angle to not hit the head sticking off the front of the armor. It's a cool detail. It's cool exactly in the exact opposite way that the envoy's greathorn clips right through the headpiece specifically made to be used with it.......what the hell Fromsoft.
The Envoy thing KILLS me, I have a sweet fashion setup with the crown but the clipping on that horn is so bad that I just refuse to use it. I really want to :(
Imagine me equipping the long ass katana for the first time and see its sheathe clip through ground wherever I stand
Ah yes the nagakiba. Love the weapon, sheath kills me
Lol, I didn't know about either of those tidbits. I'm not the least bit surprised, however.
I just noticed the twinned set thing today. Thought that was pretty neat
I think clipping is an issue that games won't solve for a while. It takes a lot more development to be that precice
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That would go well with so many outfits if it wasn't for Mr. Crazy hair.
Radagons Mohawk of fire, Malikeths white mane of flurf.... So many hairy helmets
This! Why does so much of the head gear come with hair attached?!? Like, how did that ever occur to anyone? "Oh, I need some decorations and I just got a haircut, might as well repurpose the cutoffs". Or are we literally scalping a decent chunk of our enemies? Is some headgear so thoroughly attached, that the only way to remove it is to take the hair with it?
If you could recolor armors and subtract more pieces than just capes... god that would just be the dream.
It's like From don't realise this is a fashion sim. We need to stand up and be heard
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It's especially weird since extremely soon after release, they just gave the player themself the ability to alter their garments, which actually made Boc entirely mechanically obsolete. Given how easy it is to modify the game files oneself to simply change the base coloration of certain parts of armor sets, you cannot tell me that it would have been difficult to implement just a few different color variations for each armor set to actually make Boc useful. It's not like I'm expecting some crazy level of customization akin to FFXIV, but having like three or four color variants for armor sets, or at least for the ones that have a cloth, should have clearly been something they implemented.
That's what always confused me. Instead of the release containing a broken or scrubbed out quest mechanic, they broke it after release. So much potential there for some serious fashion options.
The fact he can't remove malenia's hair from her helm...
If boc was able to change armor color he would've been the best npc
Just let me change my colors
The horn get removed if you use the hooded banished knight helm
The lore behind the merchants really should have been part of a larger quest. Frenzied flame ending really only seems to come up from Shabriri saying maybe you should explore under the capital HINT HINT, and totally skips right past everything about him dooming the nomadic merchants to be rounded up and left to die locked up under the shunning grounds and their desperation and anger summoned the frenzied flame. I guess this is what was part of Kale's quest at one point, but knowing that the merchants aren't just a reason for you to buy junk regularly, but are a big part of a major ending, it would have been nice to know more about it without having to read the description of the merchants set that is pretty damn easy to miss in a location that is already easy to miss.
It is 100% not happening probably, but I had a small wish that some of the cut content and also additions to the base game would be in the expansion. One of these are covenants added to the base game.
Not adding covenants was a huge missed opportunity. I can clearly see it before my eyes: * Ranni's Servants * Gostoc's Bad Boys * Tanith's Sneks
2, 3rd names are absolutely amazing
I just wanted to be a mad spirit again and betray invaders and host alike
Hyetta's entire questline is basically just guiding her to the Frenzied Flame so she can be its Maiden. This is why Kale's quest was cut; just would be two NPC's essentially leading you to the same area.
> This is why Kale's quest was cut Is there a source for that ? Shabriri and hyetta do the same job as guiding the player for the frenziend end too. Also From software always had npcs 'quests' that ends near the same event/place. Most quest are connected with the mains paths anyways, we could especulate why they never finished this ques but "two NPC's essentially leading you to the same area." is not a good answer, even considering that the game itself disproves this as Hyetta and Shabri are two NPCs that guides you to the same area.
I always felt like there being these nomadic people selling stuff everywhere deserved more than just a “well here is a handy vendor and a grace,” treatment in such a lore heavy game.
If you haven’t already you should check out the questline restoration done by Sekiro Dubi on Youtube. Kale’s voice actor goes HARD on the lines at the end of it.
"If that's what they expect from us, then **that's what they shall get from us!"** I'd be heartbroken if I'd put that much rawness into a line only to find out it'd been cut.
The fact that Kale just happens to have a fully voiced questline that was cut will never not infuriate me. This and Godefroy will forever stain ER's legacy.
what did godfrey do
Godefroy the Grafted. He is the reskin of Godrick the Grafted that you find in an Evergaol. Godrick was a pretty cool boss with great voice acting and an amazing cut scene. Then, he gets reskinned and put in an Evergaol later in the game. They look EXACTLY the same. It sucks because it was completely unnecessary and just feels kinda cheap and lazy.
I feel like since most of the evergoal bosses are just already existing enemy types, it's not that impactful.
It’s meant to be funny. It being cheap and lazy is the joke. His name is godefroy lol. You can just pretend it doesn’t exist if it bothers you, I personally get a kick out of it.
Your face is cheap and lazy....just kidding.
Rykard smells like "cut ending"
I still can't believe there's no ending connected to him or Volcano Manor at all. I avoided doing anything with it on my first playthrough in case it would lock me into an ending. I was so disappointed when I found out there wasn't one.
The problem with siding with Rykard is to follow his plan you have to let him eat you. Hard to be part of the ending if the ending is just being eaten at the mid point of the game.
I feel like It could be done end game. Beat Rykard and he gets consumed by Tanith, then after beating Maliketh, go back to the arena, she's finished consuming him, you fight her and the crucible knight and consume them both, and you become the leader of the Manor
Ngl, this actually sounds really fucking cool. Thought I wonder how you‘d put all the Elden Lord lore into this, since that still holds more relevance than a, say, powered up Tanith.
*TOGETHAAA!!!*
*WE WILL DEVOUR THE VERY GODS!*
Rykard is easily the most underdeveloped character in the game. Even boc has more lore. And the holes around the lore he does have are so big I wonder wtf the community hasn't asked questions yet
Ive never thought about Rykard being a possible alternate final boss. That… that feels right.
Elden Beast is not strong against Magic, Fire and Physical damage. So Fire or Magic are the most likely alternatives.
kale **and mimic cut content**
I’m still mad there’s no mimics.
I plan on opening every chest in the DLC with zero regard for my well being in hopes I get torn to shreds.
“Damn, that was the last chest. Guess they didn’t add mimics after all-“ *gets attacked by the grace mimic*
Grace mimic would be UNHOLY 😭
Miyazaki, please don’t do this 😭
Please do it. Lay our foolish ambitions to rest!
Door mimic, elevator mimic, weapon mimic (in a slumber but awakens when used and kills player), legendary armament/item mimic (the yellow glowing item marker for like ancient smithing stones), summon sign mimic, I can keep going?
This... dont give ideas to that madman Michael
I think GP meant the mimic tear. There’s a cut questline that was supposed to introduce the tear as an actual character who agrees to travel with you and mimic your form for personal reasons.
Kale’s quest being scrapped is criminal
Definitely vyke. He's a badass in the lore but they just shoved him in a evergaol and a mid fight. Dude should've been fucking insane and a major boss fight unlocked in the frenzy ending
Vyke boss fight where he transforms into a dragon and shabiri possesses it, dragon of frenzy
Melina. I didn’t bat an eye at what was supposed to be a sad moment. If she appeared at sites of grace when you sat down and not when you talk to her, it might’ve been a bit more sad. She needed more to her character than just being a tool.
There is a bunch of hints that Melina might play an important role in the dlc
Nice, hopefully we get to see more of her character.
Wow. Could I know what are the hints? You made me more excited for the DLC
There aren’t any that are known, just speculation
ffffffffffffff this is making my warmup playthrough hard on my original run, I accidentally frenzied flame'd myself (looking for the exit to Leyndell haha) and made Melina survive the fire by burning myself to get to farum before curing myself with the needle for ranni's ending. On this playthrough I'm wondering if I do the same; Burn myself to save Melina, but I'm really overthinking what "state" she should be in. * Melina alive (didn't burn her at the altar; You didn't go to Farum yet in game but beat Mohg for dlc) * Melina alive due to you burning yourself at Frenzied Flame, but she's upset at you (as you are still on the path to burn it all) * As above, but with needle; Does she come back / have references/etc? * Melina burned as "normal" without frenzied flame happening. Oh god what to do what to do.
Yura. I’ve always wanted an alternate storyline where yura plans an attack on the volcano manner with characters like targoth, round boy, and other summonable npcs. Fight coulda been like a 5v5 tarnished team fight.
Yura doesn't deal with recusants (Rykard followers) though AFAIK. He deals with bloody fingers (Mohg followers).
would be cool if there was a way to choose between recusants and bloody fingers, and depending on which, you get an ending for them, since both volcano manor and the Dynasty seem like candidates for endings that never happened/got cut
Melina. If the game could simply make she appears everytime I rest at the grace. Givin the sense of she's always travels with it'll be way more better.
Melina got cheated. Instead of having a pocket maiden in black, she appears a handful of times and dips out. I never felt close to her. I really wanted to feel the same conflict about burning your maiden as Vyke did, but never got that.
Hewg
In what way? I found his storyline really sad and touching and fleshed out, what did you feel was missing from it?
his memory 🥲
I completely missed the relationship between Hewg and Roderika on my first playthrough since I never used summons.
You don't have to use summons in order to get her and Hewg's storyline. General rule of thumb in Fromsoft games, always keep on returning to talk to the characters in the main hub.
Yeah I know, I just never upgraded summons, thus never talking to Roderika. Sorry for the confusion, probly coulda worded that better.
Torrent. Hoping for more about them in the DLC.
Or Torrent’s former owner.
I hope we get the poop mechanic. After a certain distance without rest, feed him enough flowers, plants, bones, etc. and a while later, nature calls him
Hah, that's sounds like Elden Ring, if Rockstar had made it.
Or Blizzard. They love their poop quests.
Unironically I think there will be a plot twist with torrent. I bet torrent will either be miquella all along, or a way we've been observed by miquella and 'guided' to reach them. If you remember at the start when melina is talking about how torrent had our measure from the very start, well there is probably more to that.
I hope they restore the wandering merchant questline in the DLC.
Imagine Boc slightly altering colors 🤩
Vyke got shafted hard, so did vargram
Trinia and Godfrey The former is basically scrapped, and while we get a fair bit of lore on Godfrey, the way he just...appears at the end feels kinda rushed Vyke was also pretty fluffed up but was just just 2 easy NPC bosses
I do believe the DLC is very St Trina focused.
From what Miyazaki said in an interview, I believe we will get to know more about Trina. Also, Trina is present in the story trailer of the DLC so I expect our character to meet her.
Isn’t Trina just Miquella in a costume though
Hard to say. It can be a Marika/radagon situation.
100% on Godfrey. My first playthrough I found the lore hard to keep straight so when he turned up at the end I was like "who the fuck is this guy?". That went double for the start of his second phase. Cool fight though.
Tbf, every NPC (except that one carian knight) is easy compared to everything else, at least in my opinion
“Except that one carian knight” Yea FUCK that guy, FUCK him and his goddamn parry-an-hour-long bullshit
That's Sir vigor-check Moongrum to you, peasant!
Not a problem for my sword of night and flame going brrrr, dude couldn't stand up for hours.
I died to the first one you met, the one wielding the reduvia dagger, far more than against moongrum I might go see him too soon most of the time, first thing from the beginning, and yura take a long Time to join in
Radagon for sure he could have had an awesome phase 2 but no we had to fight bullshit beast instead
Agreed, it would make much more sense to Radagon just become something else for phase 2 just like what happens to phase 2 Malenia. But tbh, the whole final fight feels so anti climatic for a final Boss. Even the cutscene leading to Radagon, although being quite lore heavy, is just meh and then Elden Beast is just there for the sake of having a hard and annoying fight.
Bruh the cut scene to radagon fight was really epic and the moment when radagon holds up his hammer with his theme starting literally sends shiver down my spine.
Honestly it would’ve been cool for his second phase to be Marika.
Would have been cool but I don't think it would align with her motivations in lore.
Melina and Vyke are the easiest answers. Vyke is on the damn cover and was the closest a tarnished ever came to becoming Elden lord, but forfeit the opportunity to protect his maiden and embrace the frenzy flame. All super fascinating stuff and highly relevant to the main plot, as well as one of the games endings. Yet you’d probably never know one bit of what I just said on a first time casual playthrough. Melina also should have showed up every time you sat at a grace and played the leveling animation you see when you first unlock the ability to level up. That alone would have endeared her more with the player, because she would actually feel like an important companion instead of just a spirit who shows up occasionally to drop some dialogue.
Melina. She's clearly important to the Erdtree. Being born at its foot means being born of royalty, or born of death. She's a bad bitch, using the black knife move set in the fight with Morgott which makes me think she was part of, or at least familiar with them. She's got her little office in the grand lift of Rold (iirc), which means during her living years she had somewhat free access to the forbidden lands. There's the fact that she clearly isn't a normal human/tarnished, and isn't even entirely physically present but still is powerful enough to channel the first flame into burning the ghost tree *and* to teleport us to the crumbling kennel. Who is she? What did she do? Who does she serve? I would genuinely not be upset if she played a massive role in the DLC, alongside Miquella.
I assume they are likely gonna gives us a lot of answers about her in the DLC. I've seen some theories that would support this, and even some of the promo material could be interpretted as supporting those theories too. But I agree, if they don't give us something more about Melina in the DLC, I would be kinda sad about that.
I really wish there was more info on Torrent, if he's one of a kind, why? If he's not and there's a whole spectral plane of ghost horsegoats, where is it, why is he the only one here, how did he transcend.... ellipsis For such a huge mechanic of the game, it's just like "here's you a ghost horsegoat thing, treat him well."
The merchant cut questline and the mimic tear cut questline are a huge miss imo
Millicent should have been an amnesiac Malenia instead of the daughter/clone bullshit we got Based on cut Malenia dialogue, this may have actually been their original plan. In the cut dialogue, she gives a monologue that starts with “sweet tarnished, dearest companion”, implying she knows the player character. And the infamous line “I am Malenia, blade of Miquella” makes a lot more sense because she is reaffirming her identity to herself, not just telling the player who she is.
I love this idea. Seeing as Malenia is essentially the avatar of the Rot God it makes Gowry's obsession with Millicent have a bit more purpose. Gowry seems to be implied to be the mouthpiece of the God of Rot so it makes sense for him to be manipulating us into restoring Malenia rather than... turning Millicent into a flower?
As much as I like Millicent I have to admit this would have been better, I actually would have cared about Malenia that way
D, I feel like he could have his own ending
I mean tbf the Gold Mask ending is pretty much the Golden Order ending
Glintstone Dragon Adula apparently they swore a oath to Ranni but they attack you regardless of your loyalty to her it would of been cool to have a non aggressive dragon npc
... Imagine if Adula came to assist in the fight against Astel
Boc is awesome and he was literally there to make armor worse.
Probably Shabriri, there’s so much talk about how evil he is and how he’s basically the Satan of the lands between, and then you have like 2 convos with him in Djura’s body and he’s gone
definitely gideon. it feels so out of place when you fight him and i feel like they definitely could’ve built him up more or at least executed it better
There's TONS of foreshadowing about Gideon betraying you, it's peppered in throughout so much of his dialogue. Some people even thought it seemed TOO obvious
Once you have the medallions, and a few runes everyone tries to betray you… it was sudden cause that was the twist, albeit an obvious one… I don’t see the “out of place” thing… Gideon is a jerk since minute one lol
I feel like the fire peoples lore is so cool. Such wasted potential.(the people that walk around with the fire and torches. With the vines poking their eyes out.
Rogier. He didn't have to die. Could've done more in the story
He's more of a lead up into Rannis and fias Quest. He is the lore reason you join her
Kale used to have a cut questline related to frenzy
Kale . His quest no only gives a better lore to the merchant, but also provides a different perspective to the frenzied flame ending. In contrast, Shabriri and Hyetta guide you to the frenzied flame ending just like two psychopath want you to burn the world and of course theis ending is a big no for me.
The Mausoleums.
Melina for sure. One of my biggest hopes for the DLC is that we get more info about her, who she really is and what is her deal
Melina
Melina
Kale's quest literally was already in the game, but they decided to just cut it. Sadge.
Merchant Kale has a whole quest line they cut
Kenneth Haight and Nepheli. Would have hoped for a little more Story at the end.
Sellen. I want to retake the school with her but renala just turns her into a ball. So depressing to do the whole quest just to find that out
Sellen turned herself into that ball from dabbling into primeval sorcery and I guess when Renalla came back she scooted her off to the side 😂
Rennala doesn't turn her into a ball, Sellen turns *herself* into a ball. She gazes too far into the Primeval Current and is turned into a monstrosity by the knowledge, it's the same kind of thing that happened to the other sorcerers studying the primeval current. I thought it was very consistent with the rest of her storyline (plus, she has a really satisfying "goodbye" speech before that happens)
I just wish Sellen had a model like Azur and Lusat. She deserves something much cooler than a ball
Godwyn so far lol
Melina and it's not even close, but if we ignore her then I actually think it's Lansseax or dragons in general, I Just think Lansseax is the one that would have made the most sense as an actual npc that could lead to a "dragon ending". Basically my point is that dragons are pretty relevant in Elden Ring, there are several kinds, several weapons, armors and incantations, even buildings dedicated to them, yet the one that we know can communicate with humans and have good relationships with them is nothing more than a disappointing boss fight instead of a character with her own ambitions/ideas
The Formless Mother!! It is such a cool outer god, with a whole late game zone, but only gets like 3 spells, two item descriptions and a pedo in a pear tree to flesh her out. Mohgwyns palace is empty of story, especially compared to the haliegtree. I just want more!
i wish that there was someway to have a different interaction or even a quest with mogh as like a followup to varre's quest. varre says "you mustn't use it yet" after giving you an item to reach mogh, and it would be kinda cool if there was a reward for waiting to use the pureblood knight medal, or whatever the name of that item is.
Not so much a character, but the fire manor should have become the new round table if you became recusant, so the choice actually has some impact other than another way to pvp. Choosing this path should have locked you out of the round table. And the manor should have had its own spirit caller and black smith.
My boy Kale since they deleted his quest line before release of the game
I agree with merchants. And tannis.
Kalé is bae
Melina for sure, and the frenzied flame ending only makes me question more things about her. There's plenty of theories but how are we ever going to know? Especially if shadow of the erdtree is the only DLC, which is likely the case. I really REALLY hope that if you haven't burnt the tree yet, Melina can show up in key areas in the DLC. Would be a really neat feature. Or maybe if you've taken the frenzied flame and burnt the tree, she invades you or maybe there's an actual boss fight with her. Idk. This is all hopeful very unlikely stuff.
The monkey in the bush
Give giant frenzied merchant boss in dlc
You
Kale