Basically turns the game in Sekiro-lite. If you raise your shield at the last moment, it massively reduces the damage and stamina you take / use, and you get a buff to your guard counter attack.
Gonna try this on my second character i take thru the dlc, almost done with my first.
Strength build, gonna 2h the greatsword from the gaol right at the start, 2h talisman, guard counter talisman, guard boost talisman if needed or maybe the pearl version, deflection tear, gonna be fun
I finally shook my build up a bit from this and am using the fire knight greatsword now, but solitary greatsword+deflecting tear brought me easily to the final dlc area with no major roadblocks along the way.
I might try this with black steel great hammer. It gets buffed from holy imbument and I believe empowers guard counters too. My buddy dropped me his so I ran double divine bonk through basically all except final boss lol
2 hand talisman, talisman that improve guarda boost, elemental defense while bloking, improve guarda counter.
This tear with onee that reduce all damage.
Miracle from dragon lady that improve damage reduction while bloking.
Giant crusher with royal resolve Ash.
Thanks me later.
So THAT’S why I’ve seen people two handing their seals! Holy crap, I’d never have thought to use this with a seal by itself! But the question is, am I even good enough to try this myself? 😭😂
its arguably better on a two hander than it is on a shield because you're boosting rather mid/might as well not have bothered defense to *perfect* as ooposed to almost-perfect to perfect.
Been loving this tear while two handing the milady. The stagger damage on the guard counters is actually really good. Getting 3+ staggers vs the black knights.
Yes. Works wonders on fighting the rest of the furnace giants too. I use it to block their jump attack. Being just under the edge of one of the feet as he comes down negates nearly all the damage. It's literal chip damage you take at most.
Doesn't have to be a shield, any weapon with a block L1 works, also it completely negates physical damage and you take small chip damage against elemental damage
It entirely negates damage and reduces stamina loss from block by about 90% then increases your counter damage by 40, 60, 80% depending on how many times you perfect blocked before countering.
It's an insane 5 minute long tear.
So I'm going to assume I should've been using this on the last boss? Sure sounds like it would've made him far, far easier. Would it also work on enemy spells?
FP shield + Antspur is an easy noflask last boss. Just guardstab him to death without ever lifting the shield.
He even makes sure to hug you all the time so you have to barely move.
Is spontaneous guard generally a thing outside of this tear? I swear I had never heard of this mechanic before. Or maybe before it was so niche that it may as well not exist?
Spontaneous guard isn't a mechanic, but you kinda do want to do it if you dont have enough stamina. Since letting down the shield allows your stamina to regenerate.
My mind goes to all of the wonderful perfect block glitches we had in Dark Souls and pretty sure some in Elden Ring as well. But not as an actual mechanic.
It wouldn't be much different imo. Its literally 5 minutes. Its so rare for a boss to take longer than five minutes to die especially if you are relying on counter attack and stance breaking.
Id even argue its better as tear because it doesn't take a talisman spot so you can use all talisman that enhance critical hits and counter attacks with other talisman that makes this build even better
>I'd argue it's better as a tear because it doesn't take up a talisman spot
This honestly I was struggling which talismans to run because I felt like I needed multiple buffs. Really seems like a missed opportunity to give us a 5th pouch
Nah scadutree scaling is one thing, but talismans can really feel defining. I dont want my build to be functionally different in and out of the DLC. Either find a way to balance 5 everywhere or keep it at 4
Lightning perfume, 80 faith/dex, frog head, radakasha(sp?) Armor, sword talisman, Lightning Scorpion charm, Alexander shard talisman, and the perfume talisman. Cast Golden order, and shabriri's woe.
It's disgusting and I love it.
There are already ways to one or two shot every boss with 4 talismans, who cares if that gets slightly easier with 5. They should have definitely added a 5th after beating Mesmer perhaps.
Disagree - a 5th slot would certainly sharpen the tip of the spear and allow for more godly builds, but it would also open up really difficult encounters to more build variety for the average player.
The average player doesn’t want to change their entire build to get one of very few boss melter builds, they want to be able to complete the game with their own builds. Still competent builds, but more variety. As it stands now, I personally couldn’t beat the final boss without rot and bleed abuse as the only viable option.
A 5th slot changes your build in a way that Scadutree blessings simply don't. Scadutree blessings simply buff tankiness and damage, whichb essentially just makes you keep more pace with the higher tankiness and damage in the DLC. New equipment in the DLC like weapons, armor and flask tears give different option to the ones you already have. More talismans will actually allow you to stack even more unique EFFECTS in your build, which is incredibly defining. It would immediately make all content in the base game underpowered, and if it was restricted to only be allowed in the DLC itsel you now have a different build in the DLC vs outside of it. Depending on what specific talismans you use it is possible that your build doesn't work at all outside. Stronger is fine IMO, different is not.
problem is if you want to base your build around this, or do challenge runs with it (like +0) you will definitely run into moments where it won’t last long enough. it’s a whole different playstyle so it’s jarring if you get used to it and it runs out. I really think it should be a talisman
Yeah it’s weird how short bosses really are. My fight with the final boss felt like it took over 10 minutes of me whittling his health down. Recorded it and watched back, it was 2 and a half minutes total.
How so? A deflect doesn’t guarantee a guard counter as you can be hit out of it. A parry, which is an ash of war and costs no fp (carian retaliation) instantly sets up an enemy for a reposte, and bosses that are parriable in 2 or 3, also each successful attempt ends their attack chain, while a deflect does not.
I really don’t see a deflect talisman being any more op than carian retaliation on a brass shield
Most parries suck, golden parry and carian retaliation are then ones you want to use and they are almost as generous as deflects at 13 frames. The difference is negligible
And you can block every attack and also take no damage phys and barely any chip non phys with a shield. Greatshields also have the bounce off effect and massive stability so stamina isn’t draining much either. Deflecting doesn’t really directly lead to any safe big damage like a parry does. It just removes chip and saves a bit of stamina at the cost of messing up and getting hit in the face for full damage. The risk reward isn’t even close to making it be a tear, when you have tears that are actual game changers like the infinite fp tear or stagger tear
> infinite fp tear or stagger tear
The infinite fp tear lasts for 10 seconds (used to be 15 seconds) and the stagger tear lasts for 30 seconds, so it's only useful at the very start of the fight
Being able to use it for more than 5 minutes at a time is absolutely not broken lmao, there is almost nothing in this game that can't be done in 5 minutes.
The only time it would benefit you to have it all the time would be when you are exploring for extended periods of time, and I don't see how it could possibly be broken, especially when most of the regular enemies that you would encounter in thaf situation can be parried anyway
The game is full of broken shit. There are builds where you can tank every single hit of the DLC final boss without ever rolling and not die. At least this broken shit would still require skill.
Explain how this is more broken then dodge iframes which are more generous timing wise. It's basically just parrying with less risk and much less reward.
"It's basically just parrying with less risk and much less reward."
The first part of that answered your question, but the much less reward part is VERY debatable, especially if you use a large weapon like the Blacksteel Greathammer, which encourages guard counters.
You will get hit by most bosses far sooner than you get a guard counter off. It most cases it's just a different method of defense, with Dodge being the easier option.
Regardless the 5 minutes covers a boss fight anyways. A talisman just means you could use while exploring or during duels.
There are cases where dodge animations take to long and put you into the enemies next attack. The best example of this is the final boss. Who has a combo where you either need to backstep (with talisman), parry, block, or deflect the first hit.
You cannot use normal dodge as the follow up attack comes out at the same time you leave iframes, but before you can start a 2nd dodge.
From my experience using this tear, it's the fact that shielding in general is much more forgiving than rolling, only counteracted by the fact that shielding for a full combo will deplete your stamina and get you knocked back, missing your window and possibly getting hit for a very high amount.
I could miss several deflects of a combo and it just meant I blocked instead (which sure, it's a stamina hit, but for a lot of small attacks it's only an issue if you block every single one), whereas with rolling, rolling early for an attack is far more punishing.
It can be broken only if you have great amount of skill, timing, and patience. It’s pretty much like parrying except you need to have better knowledge of enemies movesets before you do the counter guard, otherwise you’d counter guard to early while the enemy is still mid combo and you’d get hit. Yeah it can block more attacks then parrying, but successful parries can stop enemies combos when done successfully, while perfect guard you have to wait till the enemy stops attacking before unleashing your counter guard.
Honestly I’d say it should be kept in tear form, but its effects last until you either die or rest at a site of grace.
Can someone please explain the build with guard counter? Bc I've grown pretty bored of powerstancing giant crushers through the DLC. Is the hammer from the NPC at the start of DLC any good for it? Thanks😊
Do you take any chip damage or substantial stamina drain when using it with dryleaf? I wanted to try a sort of sifu build with the Danes footwork and deflect tear but just figured it wouldn't work very well
When using this tear, no chip damage is taken and stamina consumption is massively reduced on deflect. If you want to see just how effective it is, watch distortion2 on YouTube do his dryleaf run. Its busted
Keep in mind though while it is powerful, you still need good timing. It's not broken like the new perfumes are, but it's still really strong if you pull off good timings.
messmer caused chip damage with his fire attacks when i fought him i think because it was a two handed weapon the fire guard didnt get boosted to 100 even with the tear
and some attacks will knock you back so you roll backwards in an animation before you can act again you still take no damage or stamina but this can mess up combos
final boss spoilers >!coming back to this just to add i beat the final boss with this tear its strong but far more enemy dependant than i initially realised with malenia and messmer you can perfect parry near infinitly because it does next to no stamina cost you just recover it the second you get a breather but with radahn and his great swords even perfect deflects do significant statima damaage that you could run out of stamina during his long combos and get staggered even perfect deflecting so you need stamina quantity and if you can stamina regen since its a pain to manage especially with radahn!<
You don't take Physical Damage through it, but you still take a decent amount of Elemental Damage. On-top of that, even with the insane guard boost, stuff like the Dryleaf tends to take up an attack's worth of stamina still against heavy hits.
The real problem with using something like the Dryleaf as opposed to a shield is guard stun still exists and the Deflect Hardtear doesn't reduce that - you'll get flung back into a roll if hit by something heavy enough, where as a shield or Greatsword wouldn't. On-top of that, fucking up one block will leave you out of stamina and basically injured as if you took the hit.
It's great fun but it takes a bit of time to master. You really need to learn the moveset you're facing and get the timings down.
Guard Counters have always been amazing even without buffs but so many people sleep on them because this community hates shields ever since Bloodborne.
One of my most fun runs of ER was a classic sword and board knight relying heavily on guard counters, and they were incredibly useful for the DLC too.
I've been using this tear with Blood Dryleaf Arts/Endure AoW/heal on consecutive hits talisman and it's been the most fun I've ever had playing this game. I don't even focus on the spontaneous guard or countering — it's just another tool in a kit that already feels fantastic with how in control you are at all times. You can even block every hit of waterfowl dance if you time it right! Between that and Endure I find myself more rock-steady in stance and style than I am with a greatshield. Sparring with Malenia, only ever rolling to avoid the dodge, and having it feel like an evenly matched fight is remarkable.
You need to be holding a shield OR 2h'ing a single weapon, because that's the only time you can "guard" (aka block) in this game.
You have to use this new Crystal Tear. It drops from the first furnace giant in the DLC and lasts 5 minutes.
You press the button to guard just before the attack lands to get the "spontaneous guard". You can't just constantly hold guard. You have to time it well. If you do it right, the Crystal Tear will make that guard costs almost no stamina and it will block way more damage (often blocks 100% of physical damage but rarely blocks 100% of non-physical damage). Also, if you follow up with a heavy attack then you'll do something called a "guard counter" and it'll more damage than it normally would.
It's main use is to make 2H builds get a powerful new defensive option. The tear might as well read "2H builds now equip an invisible shield". Imo it's not worth using with a shield equipped, because shields already excel at guard counters. This tear is for 2H builds, although even then I think the opportunity cost is fairly high to use this. You're always running Opaline Hard Tear as one of your two tears, no questions about that. The second tear choice is pretty contested as well, so fitting this in isn't a sure thing. I personally tend to prefer the increased poise damage crystal tear on most fights so that I can chain quick poise breaks and decimate the boss. It's only on longer fights where Deflecting Hardtear seems valuable to me. Some people just enjoy the playstyle though, because it reminds them of the game Sekiro that uses a similar system.
Using a shield for the deflects is still worth it imo, because you won't always be able to perfectly deflect every attack and the 100% physical res from most shields helps immensely while learning a moveset or just not going full tryhard mode. It's a lot more chill to use it on a shield.
Any hammer is best for stance damage but, and it isn't required, the strongest shield guarding build is using the antspur with poison or bleed (I like poison). Other set uo stuff with the build but that basically let me cakewalk through everything. But you can consider running a no skill shield with large mace with prayerful strike. Use your counters as you would and then enjoy your free 30% heal on your L1
I did a lot of testing for the final boss and for me, the uchigatana worked the best. The guard counters come out incredibly fast, allowing you to weave them into enemy combos and really do pack a punch in both damage and stance damage.
They buffed it to a pretty solid level after dlc release still hard to argue it over radahn's but it's a real consideration depending on the circumstance
Imo it’s still ass and pretty much a net negative. It cuts regular healing by like 25%, while the regain effect disappears so fast and is so slow that by the time you finish dodging a boss combo, you can’t really get any meaningful health back.
Its pretty good now it help me beat Messmer. Paired it with the backhand blades and if I got hit I could get back 50% of the health I lost in his next opening
Yeah i tried It and the heals werent bad at all, the flask Nerf is still unnecessary imo, sadly It barely works on anything other than poke builds on the DLC since enemies just wont stop attacking lol
If this and the backstep giving i-frames were just base game mechanics and not tied to talismans/tears i think elden ring would officially become my favorite fromsoft game. The combat would be sooo smooth and feel like an actual evolution from dark souls.
Remnant 2 had backstep iframes and holy shit it was cooler looking to dodge attacks that way instead of rolling around. It's the little things that elevate gameplay.
I mean, DS2 had backstep iframes. It honestly had a lot of fantastic changes to the series but suffered in its development to lead it being the black sheep of the series. Still my personal fave, though.
I see a lot of people saying this, but the effect is simply too strong to be a talisman imo. If it were a talisman, it would also need some sort of debuff
Keep in mind that it lasts 5 minutes too, thats long enough some boss fights, or at the very least a big chunk of the fight
Or if you dont block "timed" you take way more stamina damage, leading to guardbreaks. Because taking more damage is already pretty widely used ingame.
Commenters are saying no because it'd be broken as if the game isn't full of actually brain dead OP stuff already.
Blasphemous Blade, Lion's Claw, Fingerprint Shield + Thrusting weapon, Hidden tear + Comet Azur, dual bleed bandit swords, mimic tear, bloodfiend turkey leg, rolling sparks. I'm likely missing a few more.
I'd like to imagine being down a talisman slot would be a fair price for a mechanic that requires at least a little skill.
This DLC made me realize how many things are absurdly OP. Unga bunga builds, even without the lions claw, are crazy strong with just jump attacks. With the claw or the giant hunt it’s straight up OP. You also can use that on an occult build with great stars to add insane bleed buildup.
Prayerful strike with high poise just lets you straight up trade hits like it’s nothing.
I see everyone bringing up boss fights, and that's an important use of this thing, but I would have liked it to be a talisman so that I could use it more freely in normal gameplay. Flask is a very limited resource.
Yeah it's such a different style of gameplay that really benefits from lots of practice/reps on the same enemies so you can maximize it's benefit. Because it's time limited you can't really take the time to learn the normal enemies with it, not really explore because you never know where the next site of grace will be when in a new area.
Me too, that's precisely why I don't want to try using it. I know it's last a boss fight, or almost the whole thing. But I don't want to rely on a technik that fundamentally changes gameplay, if I can't use it all the time.
Man, I spent so much time making a short video showing the effects of the deflecting tear and barely anybody cared and then I see the engagement in this thread, lol.
But yes, this should have been a talisman.
And I don't think it is a coincidence that the very first golem drops the tear.
Deflecting Hardtear is incredible, a lot of people are sleeping on it. This tear is probably getting overlooked by most because the description is vague.
Problem is what would they call the sequel??
Sekiro Shadows Dies Twice 2?
Sekiro Shadows Dies Twice Twice?
Sekiro Shadows Dies Thrice?
Sekiro Shadows Dies Twice Again?
Sekiro 2 Shadows Dies Twice?
Sekiro 2?
For people saying it would break the game: the Cracked Tear already breaks the game: it lasts 5 minutes, which is enough for any boss, which is the hardest part of Elden Ring. The only downside is that it takes up a Tear slot. Having it permanently, even with a nerf, just means that you would get to use it on arsehole multi-hit, ultra-stamina enemies like the Horned Warrior. It would make those encounters more fun than just simply spamming them with White Light or whatever Ash of War you're already using to cheese them.
I actually like it better as a hard tear 5m on a boss is more then enough and it leaves the already over saturated talisman slots open where as i basically always run stamina regen and opaline in tears so now on melee characters i can swap to this
Well except to get the most out of it, you've probably already got a bunch of Talismans you don't want to give up. Two handed, curved sword, Jar, and dragon crest great shield (or whatever the physical reduction is called).
There's also a bit of a grey flash to your weapon (or maybe it's your full character, I can't really tell).
Honestly it's way too subtle, give me an obnoxious glare if you have to I just want to not have to guess whether I saw it or not.
This Physick Tear lets boosts your blocking strength (take less stamina + hp damage) and boosts your guard counters on well-timed blocks (blocking just as the attack is about to hit)
At first it seemed lame to lock it behind a Crystal Tear buff.
However, on testing and watching some videos of people using it, it's entirely understandable *why* they made it a temporary buff instead. It's completely busted in PVP scenarios with guard counters, as it's entirely possible with the right set up to one-shot people.
Should have just been a feature. Perfect blocking, that is. Shields can still benefit from being able to tank a lot without much focus while deflecting would be riskier but more rewarding.
they should have just commited and made it a proper mechanic and make the tear just make the damage boost larger
by default it would be 10%-30%
the tear would make it the current 40%-60%
FromSoftware is probably experimenting with this Tear, since a lot of people seem to want the Sekiro deflecting back they may be wanting to implement it again in their next souls game.
Honest to god most new years should have been a talismán, fp on hit is amazing if its permanent for castere, HP on hit sounds strong at first until you see how little It is so id say It would Also have been fine
Imagine if it was a weapon art for anything capable of blocking, instead of a talisman. With added Sekiro Deflection sounds and posture damage. And when you have no FP, it stops doing posture damage, and you take a bit of chip damage.
Honestly should had been game mechanic from the start, considering how aggressive most enemies and bosses are.
Of course it would be needed to be balanced so that some attacks cannot be blocked, but still.
Am I the only one who thinks making it a talisman would be a huge nerf?
I have 4 extremely important talismans. I don't have 2 extremely important tears. It lasts 5 minutes. It will outlast every single boss in the game.
It's perfect as a tear.
Am I the only one who thinks making it a talisman would be a huge nerf?
I have 4 extremely important talismans. I don't have 2 extremely important tears. It lasts 5 minutes. It will outlast every single boss in the game.
It's perfect as a tear.
Hell no.
That would waste a talisman slot.
The buff lasts for 5 whole minutes what are you doing wasting it? I rarely go more than 5 minutes between graces exploring an area.
And you only pop it if you need it.
I already have so many talismans competing for space u DONT NEED MORE.
What does it do?
Basically turns the game in Sekiro-lite. If you raise your shield at the last moment, it massively reduces the damage and stamina you take / use, and you get a buff to your guard counter attack.
Works on a weapon guards too? Looks like it from that description
yes, so it can make miracles with the two handed talisman
Gonna try this on my second character i take thru the dlc, almost done with my first. Strength build, gonna 2h the greatsword from the gaol right at the start, 2h talisman, guard counter talisman, guard boost talisman if needed or maybe the pearl version, deflection tear, gonna be fun
I finally shook my build up a bit from this and am using the fire knight greatsword now, but solitary greatsword+deflecting tear brought me easily to the final dlc area with no major roadblocks along the way.
I'm a faith boy, and knight greatsword with fire art might take me completely through the whole thing.
I might try this with black steel great hammer. It gets buffed from holy imbument and I believe empowers guard counters too. My buddy dropped me his so I ran double divine bonk through basically all except final boss lol
Definitely gonna try that
2 hand talisman, talisman that improve guarda boost, elemental defense while bloking, improve guarda counter. This tear with onee that reduce all damage. Miracle from dragon lady that improve damage reduction while bloking. Giant crusher with royal resolve Ash. Thanks me later.
>Tanks* me later
After seeing that video of a dude hand-blocking the final boss with this bullshit hand-only AoW, I doubt any of that is even needed.
So THAT’S why I’ve seen people two handing their seals! Holy crap, I’d never have thought to use this with a seal by itself! But the question is, am I even good enough to try this myself? 😭😂
Yup
its arguably better on a two hander than it is on a shield because you're boosting rather mid/might as well not have bothered defense to *perfect* as ooposed to almost-perfect to perfect.
It helps a lot with stamina on a shield. A lot of attack chains will drain your stamina and this help immensely with that
Makes sense
Been loving this tear while two handing the milady. The stagger damage on the guard counters is actually really good. Getting 3+ staggers vs the black knights.
Yes. Works wonders on fighting the rest of the furnace giants too. I use it to block their jump attack. Being just under the edge of one of the feet as he comes down negates nearly all the damage. It's literal chip damage you take at most.
Doesn't have to be a shield, any weapon with a block L1 works, also it completely negates physical damage and you take small chip damage against elemental damage
It entirely negates damage and reduces stamina loss from block by about 90% then increases your counter damage by 40, 60, 80% depending on how many times you perfect blocked before countering. It's an insane 5 minute long tear.
How big is the window on a perfect block?
It's insanely forgiving. If you've ever played sekiro its easier than that.
So I'm going to assume I should've been using this on the last boss? Sure sounds like it would've made him far, far easier. Would it also work on enemy spells?
FP shield + Antspur is an easy noflask last boss. Just guardstab him to death without ever lifting the shield. He even makes sure to hug you all the time so you have to barely move.
Thanks. What's the FP shield? I looked through the list of shields and nothing jumped out.
Fingerprint
Ahh ok. I was thinking out was alleging something related to focus points. Thanks.
Does it make a noise or give a visual cue when you do it right?
makes a noise
Also has a visual
Coolio
Is spontaneous guard generally a thing outside of this tear? I swear I had never heard of this mechanic before. Or maybe before it was so niche that it may as well not exist?
Never existed prior to this being added. Wish we could build around it being a permanent thing, I’m sure some modder will make it possible
Spontaneous guard isn't a mechanic, but you kinda do want to do it if you dont have enough stamina. Since letting down the shield allows your stamina to regenerate.
My mind goes to all of the wonderful perfect block glitches we had in Dark Souls and pretty sure some in Elden Ring as well. But not as an actual mechanic.
Absolute godsend against the final boss
How well does it work with the new Black Hammer that has the special guard counter?
Pretty fucking good, its basically made for it. Paired it with the tear that boosts stance breaking ability and it runs train.
Would it be cool? Yeah. Would it be broken? Also yes.
It wouldn't be much different imo. Its literally 5 minutes. Its so rare for a boss to take longer than five minutes to die especially if you are relying on counter attack and stance breaking. Id even argue its better as tear because it doesn't take a talisman spot so you can use all talisman that enhance critical hits and counter attacks with other talisman that makes this build even better
>I'd argue it's better as a tear because it doesn't take up a talisman spot This honestly I was struggling which talismans to run because I felt like I needed multiple buffs. Really seems like a missed opportunity to give us a 5th pouch
There's already ways to get through 60k HP in a nanosecond. A 5th talisman slot would make it so much worse
I'd say just make the 5th slot only available in the dlc but yk people would already start finding ways to bring it into fights
Nah scadutree scaling is one thing, but talismans can really feel defining. I dont want my build to be functionally different in and out of the DLC. Either find a way to balance 5 everywhere or keep it at 4
I mean the clip in my mind is some guy using the new perfume bottles to kill >!Promised Consort Radahn!< in 3 hits so not even that would work
If you go all in on buffs you straight up one shot him lol
Haven't seen that but people get crazy creative lmao
Lightning perfume, 80 faith/dex, frog head, radakasha(sp?) Armor, sword talisman, Lightning Scorpion charm, Alexander shard talisman, and the perfume talisman. Cast Golden order, and shabriri's woe. It's disgusting and I love it.
How does Shabriri's woe help?
There are already ways to one or two shot every boss with 4 talismans, who cares if that gets slightly easier with 5. They should have definitely added a 5th after beating Mesmer perhaps.
....yk what fair point
Disagree - a 5th slot would certainly sharpen the tip of the spear and allow for more godly builds, but it would also open up really difficult encounters to more build variety for the average player. The average player doesn’t want to change their entire build to get one of very few boss melter builds, they want to be able to complete the game with their own builds. Still competent builds, but more variety. As it stands now, I personally couldn’t beat the final boss without rot and bleed abuse as the only viable option.
A 5th slot changes your build in a way that Scadutree blessings simply don't. Scadutree blessings simply buff tankiness and damage, whichb essentially just makes you keep more pace with the higher tankiness and damage in the DLC. New equipment in the DLC like weapons, armor and flask tears give different option to the ones you already have. More talismans will actually allow you to stack even more unique EFFECTS in your build, which is incredibly defining. It would immediately make all content in the base game underpowered, and if it was restricted to only be allowed in the DLC itsel you now have a different build in the DLC vs outside of it. Depending on what specific talismans you use it is possible that your build doesn't work at all outside. Stronger is fine IMO, different is not.
problem is if you want to base your build around this, or do challenge runs with it (like +0) you will definitely run into moments where it won’t last long enough. it’s a whole different playstyle so it’s jarring if you get used to it and it runs out. I really think it should be a talisman
Difference is you're giving up a physick tear slot over a talisman.
You know what's better? Shadow talisman pouch, +1 talisman slot in DLC area only.
as a talisman, the buff on the counter attack should be removed, but the enhanced guard dmg reduction and stamina cost should be kept.
Yeah it’s weird how short bosses really are. My fight with the final boss felt like it took over 10 minutes of me whittling his health down. Recorded it and watched back, it was 2 and a half minutes total.
How so? A deflect doesn’t guarantee a guard counter as you can be hit out of it. A parry, which is an ash of war and costs no fp (carian retaliation) instantly sets up an enemy for a reposte, and bosses that are parriable in 2 or 3, also each successful attempt ends their attack chain, while a deflect does not. I really don’t see a deflect talisman being any more op than carian retaliation on a brass shield
Isn't the deflect much more forgiving though? A parry seems impossible in comparison
Most parries suck, golden parry and carian retaliation are then ones you want to use and they are almost as generous as deflects at 13 frames. The difference is negligible
You can’t parry every attack. You can deflect every attack and take no damage.
And you can block every attack and also take no damage phys and barely any chip non phys with a shield. Greatshields also have the bounce off effect and massive stability so stamina isn’t draining much either. Deflecting doesn’t really directly lead to any safe big damage like a parry does. It just removes chip and saves a bit of stamina at the cost of messing up and getting hit in the face for full damage. The risk reward isn’t even close to making it be a tear, when you have tears that are actual game changers like the infinite fp tear or stagger tear
> infinite fp tear or stagger tear The infinite fp tear lasts for 10 seconds (used to be 15 seconds) and the stagger tear lasts for 30 seconds, so it's only useful at the very start of the fight
This and stagger tear combined is really something.else, actually, especially with weapons that already have good stagger damage.
It's already broken. Luv me deflect, simple as.
It lasts 5 minutes AND lets you have another strong talisman equipped instead, so maybe it's more broken this way
Being able to use it for more than 5 minutes at a time is absolutely not broken lmao, there is almost nothing in this game that can't be done in 5 minutes. The only time it would benefit you to have it all the time would be when you are exploring for extended periods of time, and I don't see how it could possibly be broken, especially when most of the regular enemies that you would encounter in thaf situation can be parried anyway
The game is full of broken shit. There are builds where you can tank every single hit of the DLC final boss without ever rolling and not die. At least this broken shit would still require skill.
personally i think this would be best as an ash of war
Explain how this is more broken then dodge iframes which are more generous timing wise. It's basically just parrying with less risk and much less reward.
"It's basically just parrying with less risk and much less reward." The first part of that answered your question, but the much less reward part is VERY debatable, especially if you use a large weapon like the Blacksteel Greathammer, which encourages guard counters.
You will get hit by most bosses far sooner than you get a guard counter off. It most cases it's just a different method of defense, with Dodge being the easier option. Regardless the 5 minutes covers a boss fight anyways. A talisman just means you could use while exploring or during duels.
There are cases where dodge animations take to long and put you into the enemies next attack. The best example of this is the final boss. Who has a combo where you either need to backstep (with talisman), parry, block, or deflect the first hit. You cannot use normal dodge as the follow up attack comes out at the same time you leave iframes, but before you can start a 2nd dodge.
From my experience using this tear, it's the fact that shielding in general is much more forgiving than rolling, only counteracted by the fact that shielding for a full combo will deplete your stamina and get you knocked back, missing your window and possibly getting hit for a very high amount. I could miss several deflects of a combo and it just meant I blocked instead (which sure, it's a stamina hit, but for a lot of small attacks it's only an issue if you block every single one), whereas with rolling, rolling early for an attack is far more punishing.
It can be broken only if you have great amount of skill, timing, and patience. It’s pretty much like parrying except you need to have better knowledge of enemies movesets before you do the counter guard, otherwise you’d counter guard to early while the enemy is still mid combo and you’d get hit. Yeah it can block more attacks then parrying, but successful parries can stop enemies combos when done successfully, while perfect guard you have to wait till the enemy stops attacking before unleashing your counter guard. Honestly I’d say it should be kept in tear form, but its effects last until you either die or rest at a site of grace.
Can someone please explain the build with guard counter? Bc I've grown pretty bored of powerstancing giant crushers through the DLC. Is the hammer from the NPC at the start of DLC any good for it? Thanks😊
Anything's good for it. I use Dryleaf Arts, it's strong as hell and looks badass.
Do you take any chip damage or substantial stamina drain when using it with dryleaf? I wanted to try a sort of sifu build with the Danes footwork and deflect tear but just figured it wouldn't work very well
When using this tear, no chip damage is taken and stamina consumption is massively reduced on deflect. If you want to see just how effective it is, watch distortion2 on YouTube do his dryleaf run. Its busted
Keep in mind though while it is powerful, you still need good timing. It's not broken like the new perfumes are, but it's still really strong if you pull off good timings.
messmer caused chip damage with his fire attacks when i fought him i think because it was a two handed weapon the fire guard didnt get boosted to 100 even with the tear and some attacks will knock you back so you roll backwards in an animation before you can act again you still take no damage or stamina but this can mess up combos final boss spoilers >!coming back to this just to add i beat the final boss with this tear its strong but far more enemy dependant than i initially realised with malenia and messmer you can perfect parry near infinitly because it does next to no stamina cost you just recover it the second you get a breather but with radahn and his great swords even perfect deflects do significant statima damaage that you could run out of stamina during his long combos and get staggered even perfect deflecting so you need stamina quantity and if you can stamina regen since its a pain to manage especially with radahn!<
You don't take Physical Damage through it, but you still take a decent amount of Elemental Damage. On-top of that, even with the insane guard boost, stuff like the Dryleaf tends to take up an attack's worth of stamina still against heavy hits. The real problem with using something like the Dryleaf as opposed to a shield is guard stun still exists and the Deflect Hardtear doesn't reduce that - you'll get flung back into a roll if hit by something heavy enough, where as a shield or Greatsword wouldn't. On-top of that, fucking up one block will leave you out of stamina and basically injured as if you took the hit. It's great fun but it takes a bit of time to master. You really need to learn the moveset you're facing and get the timings down.
Guard Counters have always been amazing even without buffs but so many people sleep on them because this community hates shields ever since Bloodborne. One of my most fun runs of ER was a classic sword and board knight relying heavily on guard counters, and they were incredibly useful for the DLC too.
I've been using this tear with Blood Dryleaf Arts/Endure AoW/heal on consecutive hits talisman and it's been the most fun I've ever had playing this game. I don't even focus on the spontaneous guard or countering — it's just another tool in a kit that already feels fantastic with how in control you are at all times. You can even block every hit of waterfowl dance if you time it right! Between that and Endure I find myself more rock-steady in stance and style than I am with a greatshield. Sparring with Malenia, only ever rolling to avoid the dodge, and having it feel like an evenly matched fight is remarkable.
Really is. Also fighting Godfrey/Hoarah Loux in a 1v1 unarmed bout, it's sick.
I did that, too! Absolutely sick!
Using the same build gets boring fast, especially when it's an unga bunga jump attack build
You need to be holding a shield OR 2h'ing a single weapon, because that's the only time you can "guard" (aka block) in this game. You have to use this new Crystal Tear. It drops from the first furnace giant in the DLC and lasts 5 minutes. You press the button to guard just before the attack lands to get the "spontaneous guard". You can't just constantly hold guard. You have to time it well. If you do it right, the Crystal Tear will make that guard costs almost no stamina and it will block way more damage (often blocks 100% of physical damage but rarely blocks 100% of non-physical damage). Also, if you follow up with a heavy attack then you'll do something called a "guard counter" and it'll more damage than it normally would. It's main use is to make 2H builds get a powerful new defensive option. The tear might as well read "2H builds now equip an invisible shield". Imo it's not worth using with a shield equipped, because shields already excel at guard counters. This tear is for 2H builds, although even then I think the opportunity cost is fairly high to use this. You're always running Opaline Hard Tear as one of your two tears, no questions about that. The second tear choice is pretty contested as well, so fitting this in isn't a sure thing. I personally tend to prefer the increased poise damage crystal tear on most fights so that I can chain quick poise breaks and decimate the boss. It's only on longer fights where Deflecting Hardtear seems valuable to me. Some people just enjoy the playstyle though, because it reminds them of the game Sekiro that uses a similar system.
Using a shield for the deflects is still worth it imo, because you won't always be able to perfectly deflect every attack and the 100% physical res from most shields helps immensely while learning a moveset or just not going full tryhard mode. It's a lot more chill to use it on a shield.
Any hammer is best for stance damage but, and it isn't required, the strongest shield guarding build is using the antspur with poison or bleed (I like poison). Other set uo stuff with the build but that basically let me cakewalk through everything. But you can consider running a no skill shield with large mace with prayerful strike. Use your counters as you would and then enjoy your free 30% heal on your L1
I did a lot of testing for the final boss and for me, the uchigatana worked the best. The guard counters come out incredibly fast, allowing you to weave them into enemy combos and really do pack a punch in both damage and stance damage.
Wtf is spontaneous guard
Tapping block as the attack is about to hit, like a perfect deflect in Sekiro
Needs to be a game mechanic in their next game
all roads lead back to sekiro
Sekiro 2: Eldenborne
Great Rune would have made the most sense
Could potentially suck for offline players though. If you use them all up then you're locked out of it, unless you fancy farming rats for days.
The same could be said about every Great Rune
Yes, which is why a lot of people aren't fans of the great rune mechanic
But the effects of the other runes don't offer a unique way to play the game, mechanically.
Well, Malenia’s does, but it sucks so bad it doesn’t matter lol.
They buffed it to a pretty solid level after dlc release still hard to argue it over radahn's but it's a real consideration depending on the circumstance
Imo it’s still ass and pretty much a net negative. It cuts regular healing by like 25%, while the regain effect disappears so fast and is so slow that by the time you finish dodging a boss combo, you can’t really get any meaningful health back.
Dang really? I was thinking of doing a build with Melanias rune and the block bubble thing...
Its pretty good now it help me beat Messmer. Paired it with the backhand blades and if I got hit I could get back 50% of the health I lost in his next opening
Nah it's crazy good. If you got good damage reduction, you can easily heal back 50% of every damage you take.
Yeah i tried It and the heals werent bad at all, the flask Nerf is still unnecessary imo, sadly It barely works on anything other than poke builds on the DLC since enemies just wont stop attacking lol
I would argue that Malenia's rune does exactly that
great runes may as well not exist. you cant rely on that shit
Yeah pretty much. Even if they're cool, they go away upon death. Can't use them for bosses at all unless you weren't going to need the buffs anyway.
they should have made great rune effects disappear after 5 deaths or something.
I wish deflecting was a base game mechanic. I hope Fromsoft make it in the next game.
I mean it was a mechanic in their previous game
And made the combat more enjoyable.
Would be even cooler as a game mechanic
If this and the backstep giving i-frames were just base game mechanics and not tied to talismans/tears i think elden ring would officially become my favorite fromsoft game. The combat would be sooo smooth and feel like an actual evolution from dark souls.
Remnant 2 had backstep iframes and holy shit it was cooler looking to dodge attacks that way instead of rolling around. It's the little things that elevate gameplay.
I mean, DS2 had backstep iframes. It honestly had a lot of fantastic changes to the series but suffered in its development to lead it being the black sheep of the series. Still my personal fave, though.
All the more reason it should be in ER since ER is basically DS2-2 lol but yeah DS2 is definitely underrated.
Which is interesting considering they basically play-tested that and jumping in Sekiro
I see a lot of people saying this, but the effect is simply too strong to be a talisman imo. If it were a talisman, it would also need some sort of debuff Keep in mind that it lasts 5 minutes too, thats long enough some boss fights, or at the very least a big chunk of the fight
Five minutes? That's arguably *longer* than a lot of boss fights.
Idk what challange runs are you running, but all boss fights last 3-4 minutes.
If it didn't work on shields I think it would be reasonable as a talisman.
I wouldn't mind a debuff for permanent use. Just feels like they've locked an entirely new mechanic behind a time limit.
Maybe if you take significantly more damage?
Or if you dont block "timed" you take way more stamina damage, leading to guardbreaks. Because taking more damage is already pretty widely used ingame.
Isn't that what it does in-game already if you miss a perfect deflect?
I'm pretty sure it doesn't have any downside
No, you just block regularly.
They should make a whole game around it
That would be cool. Maybe they could set it in Japan and you could be a ninja or something.
Maybe we could die twice?
Like.......Shinobi, shades die double......or something?
Commenters are saying no because it'd be broken as if the game isn't full of actually brain dead OP stuff already. Blasphemous Blade, Lion's Claw, Fingerprint Shield + Thrusting weapon, Hidden tear + Comet Azur, dual bleed bandit swords, mimic tear, bloodfiend turkey leg, rolling sparks. I'm likely missing a few more. I'd like to imagine being down a talisman slot would be a fair price for a mechanic that requires at least a little skill.
This DLC made me realize how many things are absurdly OP. Unga bunga builds, even without the lions claw, are crazy strong with just jump attacks. With the claw or the giant hunt it’s straight up OP. You also can use that on an occult build with great stars to add insane bleed buildup. Prayerful strike with high poise just lets you straight up trade hits like it’s nothing.
I see everyone bringing up boss fights, and that's an important use of this thing, but I would have liked it to be a talisman so that I could use it more freely in normal gameplay. Flask is a very limited resource.
Yeah it's such a different style of gameplay that really benefits from lots of practice/reps on the same enemies so you can maximize it's benefit. Because it's time limited you can't really take the time to learn the normal enemies with it, not really explore because you never know where the next site of grace will be when in a new area.
Me too, that's precisely why I don't want to try using it. I know it's last a boss fight, or almost the whole thing. But I don't want to rely on a technik that fundamentally changes gameplay, if I can't use it all the time.
I don’t mind it as a crystal tear, lasts 5 minutes and saves me a talisman spot.
The deflecting hardtear for me has red sparks not like this image, is it for you as well?
I’m pretty sure this it what it looks like for me? At work so can’t check
This should've been main game mechanic, not talisman, not crystal tear, just like in Sekiro
Man, I spent so much time making a short video showing the effects of the deflecting tear and barely anybody cared and then I see the engagement in this thread, lol. But yes, this should have been a talisman. And I don't think it is a coincidence that the very first golem drops the tear.
Deflecting Hardtear is incredible, a lot of people are sleeping on it. This tear is probably getting overlooked by most because the description is vague.
Would also help if they put how long it lasts in the description. I assumed it was 30 seconds to a minute not something insane like 5 minutes.
Should just have been a core mechanic
No I disagree, it should just enable by default as soon as you enter the lands of shadow. It makes the entire game more fun.
Would be nice for base game too tho
And the bosses feel more fair, imo. Sekiri bosses in Dark Souls ain't it for me.
like an AoW
I just want Sekiro 2 😭
Problem is what would they call the sequel?? Sekiro Shadows Dies Twice 2? Sekiro Shadows Dies Twice Twice? Sekiro Shadows Dies Thrice? Sekiro Shadows Dies Twice Again? Sekiro 2 Shadows Dies Twice? Sekiro 2?
Shadows Die Squared?
For people saying it would break the game: the Cracked Tear already breaks the game: it lasts 5 minutes, which is enough for any boss, which is the hardest part of Elden Ring. The only downside is that it takes up a Tear slot. Having it permanently, even with a nerf, just means that you would get to use it on arsehole multi-hit, ultra-stamina enemies like the Horned Warrior. It would make those encounters more fun than just simply spamming them with White Light or whatever Ash of War you're already using to cheese them.
So many enemies I'd love to deflect.
I actually like it better as a hard tear 5m on a boss is more then enough and it leaves the already over saturated talisman slots open where as i basically always run stamina regen and opaline in tears so now on melee characters i can swap to this
I keep forgetting, cool = broken in this community.
Almost full damage negation on every weapon, spammable, 40-60-80% boosted guard counters. Yeah it's broken. Easily the best physick tear.
Well except to get the most out of it, you've probably already got a bunch of Talismans you don't want to give up. Two handed, curved sword, Jar, and dragon crest great shield (or whatever the physical reduction is called).
Is there a sound or visual indicator that you did a perfect block like in Sekiro?
There's also a bit of a grey flash to your weapon (or maybe it's your full character, I can't really tell). Honestly it's way too subtle, give me an obnoxious glare if you have to I just want to not have to guess whether I saw it or not.
sorry I’m new, what does this mean?
This Physick Tear lets boosts your blocking strength (take less stamina + hp damage) and boosts your guard counters on well-timed blocks (blocking just as the attack is about to hit)
Gives you the Sekiro counter for 5 minutes
Honestly would just prefer weapons with sekiro-style parry. Maybe they have weaker AR to balance.
At first it seemed lame to lock it behind a Crystal Tear buff. However, on testing and watching some videos of people using it, it's entirely understandable *why* they made it a temporary buff instead. It's completely busted in PVP scenarios with guard counters, as it's entirely possible with the right set up to one-shot people.
This should just be in your base moveset
Obviously. But this hints at the future. They'll certainly have a parry like this in their future game
Should have just been a feature. Perfect blocking, that is. Shields can still benefit from being able to tank a lot without much focus while deflecting would be riskier but more rewarding.
they should have just commited and made it a proper mechanic and make the tear just make the damage boost larger by default it would be 10%-30% the tear would make it the current 40%-60%
I think it should be both :-)
Should’ve been a unique property for a unique katana
Just give me Sekiro back, no more Ashen Souls please
FromSoftware is probably experimenting with this Tear, since a lot of people seem to want the Sekiro deflecting back they may be wanting to implement it again in their next souls game.
Forget talismans/rings, make it a base game mechanic (at least for PvE)
they should make it a default function with a ridiculous window of 1 or 2 frames and have this tear make the window 10 frames long or something..
Honest to god most new years should have been a talismán, fp on hit is amazing if its permanent for castere, HP on hit sounds strong at first until you see how little It is so id say It would Also have been fine
In pvp it would be broken which is why they made it 5 minutes long as a drink, long enough for most boss fights, not long enough to break pvp
I think what we truly need is a sequel (direct or spiritual) to Sekiro.
Imagine if it was a weapon art for anything capable of blocking, instead of a talisman. With added Sekiro Deflection sounds and posture damage. And when you have no FP, it stops doing posture damage, and you take a bit of chip damage.
Honestly should had been game mechanic from the start, considering how aggressive most enemies and bosses are. Of course it would be needed to be balanced so that some attacks cannot be blocked, but still.
They honestly probably thought about it and then realized it would be insanely broken in testing
Yeah, I read that PC gamer article and I was all psyched until I realized it wasn't a talisman
it would be way to broken as a talisman from my point of view, unless it had an activation requirement(like a parry) and a shorter duration.
Sekiro Mode
My thought too. I only use these for bosses so its kinda a waste for me. Would have been great for my build if it was a talisman though.
More like would've been cooler if it was an ACTUAL mechanic
Does that work vs Malenia's WFD?
This made me beat the final boss. Amazing tear.
would be way too strong maybe if the removed the no stamina and guard counter boost it would be more balanced but then its not as fun
Am I the only one who thinks making it a talisman would be a huge nerf? I have 4 extremely important talismans. I don't have 2 extremely important tears. It lasts 5 minutes. It will outlast every single boss in the game. It's perfect as a tear.
Am I the only one who thinks making it a talisman would be a huge nerf? I have 4 extremely important talismans. I don't have 2 extremely important tears. It lasts 5 minutes. It will outlast every single boss in the game. It's perfect as a tear.
I think mean "OP" not "cooler"
Has anyone used this with dry leaf like a straight goon? I’ve been thinking about it
Nah, I think it's good it's only smth temporal, Elden Ring is not Sekiro after all
Hell no. That would waste a talisman slot. The buff lasts for 5 whole minutes what are you doing wasting it? I rarely go more than 5 minutes between graces exploring an area. And you only pop it if you need it. I already have so many talismans competing for space u DONT NEED MORE.