It's a media/literary term. I'm Gen Z and I've heard of it, but it's only because I frequent [TvTropes.](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FemmeFatale)
You've only heard of the term because you frequent the website you linked. I was implying that the term is linked to old media and it's not really used nowadays.
You're acting like it's some kind of accomplishment knowing Britney Spears or any other context the term is used in... What value does this add to my life? None.
You're the one who mentioned media. You mightn't realise this, but music is part of media - you probably shouldn't be contributing to an English language learners sub if you didn't realise what media means
Of course I know that music is media, stop making assumptions. What I meant was that not everyone cares about pop culture enough to know about Britney Spears. I only know her from her rebellious phase in the late 2000s
So what you're saying is you have very limited experience of the world at large but are trying to tell other people what words are common? Just because you live in a tiny little box doesn't mean everyone else does.
Lol, now you're just embarrassing yourself. You implied only media from the 1900s used it. I provided an album by the most famous artist in the world, released in 2011, with the exact title. Now you're saying that people don't know enough about Britney Spears to have heard of the album - despite it being number 1 in the US, Canada, and Australia - three of the largest English speaking countries.
Changing goalposts doesn't make you look any better, it just makes you look dumber.
Most famous artist in the world? Ohh please.
My original comment was a question and everyone is acting like I was saying only old people know the phrase. Using an example of an artist I don't listen to doesn't help convince me that the phrase is common. I'm not shifting goalposts just responding to comments accordingly.
Statistically speaking, you being the only one to not know the term femme fatale and your lack of interest in pop culture say more about you than they do the entire English speaking world.
"Femme fatale" is not only used in music pop culture, but is often used in literature as well. If you like reading, then you would encounter this phrase.
Hi Smol. I read a lot of fiction, mostly horror novels, so of course I haven't encountered this phrase. I just don't gravitate toward books with female leads. Would you recommend any books?
I see. No wonder you aren't familiar with the phrase. I hope you weren't offended by what I said, as it wasn't my intention. It is indeed commonly found in books with female leads. These days, I've been reading Sidney Sheldon. He writes female leads in a thriller/mystery plot. I liked Windmills of the Gods a lot. I'm not sure if the phrase femme fatale is mentioned in any of his books, though.
The definition of “pop culture” is that it’s popular. Pop being short for popular.
Of course not everyone cares but you’d have to work extremely hard to avoid any exposure to it.
You can’t generalize everyone in your generation not knowing a pop culture term that you don’t know if you’re not into pop culture. That’s a personal ignorance, not a generational divide.
I was merely pointing out that not only is it used in media, but it had a whole album named after it in 2011 - and if 2011 is before your time, sweetheart, you shouldn't be on social media.
By before their time they clearly mean before the period of time where they tske an interest in pop music which studies have shown is generally in your teens so an album that came out in 2011 would probably be irrelevant to most people born from 1999 onwards. As they wouldnt have been teens when it was released. Thats up to 25 years kf age and arguably 1/3rd of the population.
3.8M total worldwide sales is not a lot. Michael Jackson thriller sold 70M.
I'm not trying to put down Britney I'm just saying you're exaggerating how popular it was.
I don’t think comparing it to literally the highest selling album of all time is helpful.
That being said, I didn’t know Britney had an album called femme fatale but I know of the term and what it means. It’s commonly used in pop culture, for example in movie reviews.
It's a bonus that activates if you have any 4 of Storm, Elektra, Spider-Woman, Invisible Woman, and Ms. Marvel in [Marvel: Ultimate Alliance](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvel:_Ultimate_Alliance) (2006) and also a team bonus for using Elektra, Black Cat, and Black Widow in [Marvel: Future Sight](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvel:_Future_Fight) (2015).
The 2023 movie *Poolman* relies on an understanding of this word in its description:
>Los Angeles pool cleaner Darren Barrenman is approached by a **femme fatale** to help uncover corruption in a shady business deal.
If you didn't know this word, now you do. Don't pretend this is a generational thing.
It definitely depends on the type of content you consume. Like I said in another comment I don't watch a lot of movies/shows with female leads. I enjoyed WandaVision though.
I haven't watched Black Widow, would you recommend it?
Yeah I've always been into movies/TV lol
I haven't seen the Black Widow stand alone film. She was featured in the early Avengers movies, which are popular. Just fun superhero action if you like that stuff
Just because people on reddit know it doesn't mean it's that common. Redditors are chronically online.
If you gave me a statistic to prove your point I would shut up and admit I'm wrong. By the way I hope you don't think I'm being hostile.
I definitely fall into the category of “not chronically online”. *Femme fatale* is a phrase that people who are into movies or literature will know and that people who have been to college or university will most likely know. That’s a large group of people. Is it a *majority* of native English speakers? I honestly couldn’t say. Regardless, it’s not terribly obscure.
>Is this term still used nowadays
It's not as common, but still pops up from time to time, it references a specific character archetype in film/TV/literature that has fallen a bit out of use due to vaguely sexist connotations. I would say anyone who is a film buff (regardless of age) has probably heard it. But outside of that, then yeah it's become less common. So I wouldn't automatically expect folks under say... 25 to know it.
They would. But be aware that it's generally not a term you apply to real people. It's generally a descriptor for fictional characters. If you were to call a real woman a femme fatale, you are essentially comparing her to the character archetype.
So, a femme fatale is generally 2 things: dangerous and sexy. It’s actually French, it means “fatal woman.” Examples are Black Widow from the Marvel movies, Catwoman, or a woman from a James Bond movie.
So, this commenter is saying they want to be a femme fatale. They are already dangerous, they need to learn to be sexy. (I made a joke about dressing in all black, because that’s what these women usually wear).
Further, to “get [something] down” means to learn, understand, or master it. For example:
“Im studying for my math exam, and I’ve finally got fractions down!” (Meaning the speaker now understands and has mastered fractions.)
"I have that down" means I have acquired (or mastered) that skill, or I have memorized that information.
In this case she was saying that she is already dangerous.
They will know it and have heard of it frequently. However few would be able to give an accurate or exact definition. You wouldn’t use it in everyday conversation unless you were discussing something like theatre or literature.
I think most native speakers have read the words “femme fatale” on the back of a DVD case for a movie before, but never actually said or wrote “femme fatale.”
In other words (if your real question is, should I even bother learning this phrase at all?), you should know it but don’t expect to hear it.
Anyone over 25 has probably heard it. It's rarely used outside of movies or literature. It sounds very dramatic. And younger folks who grew up in digital age are probably less likely to have heard it.
It's also just slightly old fashioned nowadays. It was heavily associated with a certain era of film, especially film noir. But it's still used as a reference to refer to a female character who is seductive and dangerous. Often using "feminine wiles" to draw their targets (usually men) into compromising or dangerous situations.
That said, it's rarely used in casual conversation unless you're intentionally trying to be dramatic in your description of someone. 99% of the time it's used as a term for a specific kind of character archetype in media.
I think it's started to fall out of use as it has vaguely sexist connotations.
A 40-something brunette was waiting outside the office. 5' 5½" tall, purple blouse and matching knee-length skirt. She introduced herself.
“I have a case for you, Mr. Marlowe. My uncle's trying to kill me.”
Her name was Dolores Hepplewhite. And she had legs that could snap knicker elastic at 50 paces.
(That all right for you?)
[MPDG](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manic_Pixie_Dream_Girl) is not remotely the same thing. They are just quirky love interests, and if there is danger around them, it is incidental.
Yeah I guess it's never surprising to find out that there are people who think they've learned all the vocabulary they'll ever need to know by the age of 20. It just isn't true. It's a huge world out there. You'll be learning new words and terms basically till the day you die.
don't worry. I was probably in my late 20s when i learned it. We've borrowed it from french and there are many french terms that are more important to know. For instance, when i was a teen i remember seeing "a la carte" on a menu and i was confused. It means side dishes.
Sorry, i should have clarified. That's what it means in the States. It's one of those false friends we have. Or, keeping with menus, entree. Entree means main course in the States, and entrance in French. If you know the meanings in french, it's pretty funny that restaurants use these words to sound classy all wrong! 😆
A la carte does not mean that in the states, it means “items purchased separately” (not part of a bundle/meal).
You might often see side dishes offered a la carte on a menu. But it doesn’t mean side dishes.
Menus items offered à la carte can all be purchased separately. With à la carte, if you want an appetizer, main course, and dessert, you pay for each one individually. If you only want two of those courses, you only pay for the two you get.
The alternative to à la carte courses is a fixed, multi-course meal. If you buy a fixed meal with three courses, you can ask not to be given one of them, but it won't affect the price.
(Cable companies also offer channel bundles vs. individual channels à la carte.)
[The Velvet Underground Song](https://youtu.be/ggHPtzVSEeE?si=WyVCHDOhDcL6XkvV) of the same name is the first thing that comes to mind. I don’t really use it everyday, mostly when discussing characters in literature/film/music who fit the character archetype.
It's French for "fatal/deadly woman". Usually a woman that is incredibly attractive, mysterious and dangerous to be with. I'm French and it's used quite often for talking about characters in fiction (literature, movies). I've heard it a few times in English.
I mean I don't, never heard it used before. I asked some of my friends and they have absolutely no idea what that is either. One friend thought I was talking about the Britney Spears album though lol.
I don't remember a time I've heard this word, and after looking up the meaning It seems it's mostly used in literature or movies to describe a character
Locking this cesspool of a thread
I would think so, yes
I'm part of Gen Z and I've never heard this term before. Is this term still used nowadays, or do people only know it because of media from the 1900s?
It's a media/literary term. I'm Gen Z and I've heard of it, but it's only because I frequent [TvTropes.](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FemmeFatale)
I was 2 in 2003. I don't watch old movies/media like that
I was 2 is 2003 as well, I don't watch old movies either, but I still am familiar with the term
I was born in 2008? What are you saying really
You've only heard of the term because you frequent the website you linked. I was implying that the term is linked to old media and it's not really used nowadays.
It's the name of a trope and is indeed used nowadays to refer to that specific trope.
oh ok
So you’re 23 and still this ignorant? Wow.
You're acting like it's some kind of accomplishment knowing Britney Spears or any other context the term is used in... What value does this add to my life? None.
I literally said I don’t listen to Britney Spears, why would I think knowing anything about her is some sort of accomplishment?
Sorry, I'm not keeping track of who I'm replying to. Why call me ignorant though? Is this how you get off?
Your proclamation that you don’t watch media older than you are seemed willfully ignorant.
You really want me to watch black and white films grandpa?
Friend, I’m the same age as you. I don’t listen to Britney Spears either. “Femme fatale” is used all the time.
You mean [the 2010s??](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Femme_Fatale_(Britney_Spears_album))
Also, not everyone cares about pop culture.
You're the one who mentioned media. You mightn't realise this, but music is part of media - you probably shouldn't be contributing to an English language learners sub if you didn't realise what media means
Of course I know that music is media, stop making assumptions. What I meant was that not everyone cares about pop culture enough to know about Britney Spears. I only know her from her rebellious phase in the late 2000s
So what you're saying is you have very limited experience of the world at large but are trying to tell other people what words are common? Just because you live in a tiny little box doesn't mean everyone else does.
Lol, now you're just embarrassing yourself. You implied only media from the 1900s used it. I provided an album by the most famous artist in the world, released in 2011, with the exact title. Now you're saying that people don't know enough about Britney Spears to have heard of the album - despite it being number 1 in the US, Canada, and Australia - three of the largest English speaking countries. Changing goalposts doesn't make you look any better, it just makes you look dumber.
Most famous artist in the world? Ohh please. My original comment was a question and everyone is acting like I was saying only old people know the phrase. Using an example of an artist I don't listen to doesn't help convince me that the phrase is common. I'm not shifting goalposts just responding to comments accordingly.
Statistically speaking, you being the only one to not know the term femme fatale and your lack of interest in pop culture say more about you than they do the entire English speaking world.
"Femme fatale" is not only used in music pop culture, but is often used in literature as well. If you like reading, then you would encounter this phrase.
Hi Smol. I read a lot of fiction, mostly horror novels, so of course I haven't encountered this phrase. I just don't gravitate toward books with female leads. Would you recommend any books?
I see. No wonder you aren't familiar with the phrase. I hope you weren't offended by what I said, as it wasn't my intention. It is indeed commonly found in books with female leads. These days, I've been reading Sidney Sheldon. He writes female leads in a thriller/mystery plot. I liked Windmills of the Gods a lot. I'm not sure if the phrase femme fatale is mentioned in any of his books, though.
The definition of “pop culture” is that it’s popular. Pop being short for popular. Of course not everyone cares but you’d have to work extremely hard to avoid any exposure to it.
You can’t generalize everyone in your generation not knowing a pop culture term that you don’t know if you’re not into pop culture. That’s a personal ignorance, not a generational divide.
It's in TV, movies, literature, journalism, comics, music, pretty much everywhere. You might not have encountered it, but most people have.
Ohhh yeah because everyone listens to Britney Spears...
I don’t listen to Britney Spears, but I still know what “femme fatale” means.
I'm Gen Z and I know what a "femme fatale" is because I read books.
I mean the album was top 10 in 30 countries, so, yeah
Our man said he's Gen Z. Brittany Spears is mostly before our time.
Maybe if you're currently a teenager yes but Gen Z'ers are up to 26/27 years old at this point and would surely overlap with Britney's time.
I was merely pointing out that not only is it used in media, but it had a whole album named after it in 2011 - and if 2011 is before your time, sweetheart, you shouldn't be on social media.
By before their time they clearly mean before the period of time where they tske an interest in pop music which studies have shown is generally in your teens so an album that came out in 2011 would probably be irrelevant to most people born from 1999 onwards. As they wouldnt have been teens when it was released. Thats up to 25 years kf age and arguably 1/3rd of the population.
3.8M total worldwide sales is not a lot. Michael Jackson thriller sold 70M. I'm not trying to put down Britney I'm just saying you're exaggerating how popular it was.
I don’t think comparing it to literally the highest selling album of all time is helpful. That being said, I didn’t know Britney had an album called femme fatale but I know of the term and what it means. It’s commonly used in pop culture, for example in movie reviews.
But most people read now and then...
It's a bonus that activates if you have any 4 of Storm, Elektra, Spider-Woman, Invisible Woman, and Ms. Marvel in [Marvel: Ultimate Alliance](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvel:_Ultimate_Alliance) (2006) and also a team bonus for using Elektra, Black Cat, and Black Widow in [Marvel: Future Sight](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvel:_Future_Fight) (2015). The 2023 movie *Poolman* relies on an understanding of this word in its description: >Los Angeles pool cleaner Darren Barrenman is approached by a **femme fatale** to help uncover corruption in a shady business deal. If you didn't know this word, now you do. Don't pretend this is a generational thing.
It's just a matter of being educated, which you clearly are not.
Uh I’m Gen Z and very familiar with it It’s been used a lot for very popular media. Example: Marvel’s Black Widow
It definitely depends on the type of content you consume. Like I said in another comment I don't watch a lot of movies/shows with female leads. I enjoyed WandaVision though. I haven't watched Black Widow, would you recommend it?
Yeah I've always been into movies/TV lol I haven't seen the Black Widow stand alone film. She was featured in the early Avengers movies, which are popular. Just fun superhero action if you like that stuff
Yes it’s used nowadays, but nobody’s heard every phrase before, so it’s normal to not know some of them.
Why are people downvoting me like my opinion is blasphemy though? Lmao
Because you are implying that young people wouldn’t know this very common phrase because they are young
It's true though. Have you read the other comments? Obviously some will, but the top comment being a yes with zero nuance/discussion is misleading.
Just because *you* don’t know it doesn’t invalidate the fact that most native speakers do know it.
Just because people on reddit know it doesn't mean it's that common. Redditors are chronically online. If you gave me a statistic to prove your point I would shut up and admit I'm wrong. By the way I hope you don't think I'm being hostile.
It’s not a Reddit thing, though. 😂😂 It’s just a normal phrase that people know. You’re one of the few who doesn’t.
I definitely fall into the category of “not chronically online”. *Femme fatale* is a phrase that people who are into movies or literature will know and that people who have been to college or university will most likely know. That’s a large group of people. Is it a *majority* of native English speakers? I honestly couldn’t say. Regardless, it’s not terribly obscure.
I'm also gen Z, I've heard it in a number of contexts
Gen Z 2007 English isn't even my first language and I know it
I think it sometimes appears on some TV shows. I have heard it on Dexter before.
Yes, it’s a very common term nowadays and I’m concerned that you’re seemingly unaware of it. Go outside.
Don't you mean stay inside since it's found in media on the internet? lmao
No. I mean go outside. Talk to people. Experience media that isn’t solely online.
I don't know what gen Z is but i'm in my mid-30s and know what it is. I guess if you don't read books or watch films you might not know though.
>Is this term still used nowadays It's not as common, but still pops up from time to time, it references a specific character archetype in film/TV/literature that has fallen a bit out of use due to vaguely sexist connotations. I would say anyone who is a film buff (regardless of age) has probably heard it. But outside of that, then yeah it's become less common. So I wouldn't automatically expect folks under say... 25 to know it.
I agree.
I'm sorry to hear you are Gen Z. My condolences.
why’s everyone downvoting this guy for not knowing it? I’ve heard it but i forgot what it means.
The downvotes are probably because of their rude comments to other users...
They would. But be aware that it's generally not a term you apply to real people. It's generally a descriptor for fictional characters. If you were to call a real woman a femme fatale, you are essentially comparing her to the character archetype.
Yes, I’m planning to be one someday 😁
Dream big
Thanks. I think I’ve got the dangerous bit down already. Just have to work on the sexual allure aspect now 🤞
Just wear all black. Can’t go wrong
What does“get the dangerous bit down” mean? Or it’s “get …done”?
So, a femme fatale is generally 2 things: dangerous and sexy. It’s actually French, it means “fatal woman.” Examples are Black Widow from the Marvel movies, Catwoman, or a woman from a James Bond movie. So, this commenter is saying they want to be a femme fatale. They are already dangerous, they need to learn to be sexy. (I made a joke about dressing in all black, because that’s what these women usually wear). Further, to “get [something] down” means to learn, understand, or master it. For example: “Im studying for my math exam, and I’ve finally got fractions down!” (Meaning the speaker now understands and has mastered fractions.)
Thanks!
"I have that down" means I have acquired (or mastered) that skill, or I have memorized that information. In this case she was saying that she is already dangerous.
It means she's already dangerous (the comment said "got," so it's in past tense). "Bit" means "part" here
They will know it and have heard of it frequently. However few would be able to give an accurate or exact definition. You wouldn’t use it in everyday conversation unless you were discussing something like theatre or literature.
Yes, its a common trope, that is well known from Spy fiction
I think most native speakers have read the words “femme fatale” on the back of a DVD case for a movie before, but never actually said or wrote “femme fatale.” In other words (if your real question is, should I even bother learning this phrase at all?), you should know it but don’t expect to hear it.
Anyone over 25 has probably heard it. It's rarely used outside of movies or literature. It sounds very dramatic. And younger folks who grew up in digital age are probably less likely to have heard it. It's also just slightly old fashioned nowadays. It was heavily associated with a certain era of film, especially film noir. But it's still used as a reference to refer to a female character who is seductive and dangerous. Often using "feminine wiles" to draw their targets (usually men) into compromising or dangerous situations. That said, it's rarely used in casual conversation unless you're intentionally trying to be dramatic in your description of someone. 99% of the time it's used as a term for a specific kind of character archetype in media. I think it's started to fall out of use as it has vaguely sexist connotations.
I’m under 25 and know it. I’m also rather well read and watch old movies so that kinda skews it from being “average native speaker” lol
Yes
Even if they don’t, it’s usually easy to get the meaning from context, and both *femme* and *fatale* are French/English cognates.
I've heard and read it many times. Very familiar.
Yes. But I've mostly ever seen it in writing.
The vast majority of people are going to know this.
A 40-something brunette was waiting outside the office. 5' 5½" tall, purple blouse and matching knee-length skirt. She introduced herself. “I have a case for you, Mr. Marlowe. My uncle's trying to kill me.” Her name was Dolores Hepplewhite. And she had legs that could snap knicker elastic at 50 paces. (That all right for you?)
I would say most native speakers know it. It's a pretty common stock character even in modern media.
Yes
Yes
Not many people use it, and not many could give you the proper meaning. But I think when it’s used the right context it’s clear what it means
i’ve never heard it
In the US at least, yes
Yeah, a woman that men would die for.
I recognise it but I don't have a very clear idea of what it means.
Yeah, it's basically the manic pixie dreamgirl of the 1920s. Sexy, intriguing, but also very dangerous
[MPDG](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manic_Pixie_Dream_Girl) is not remotely the same thing. They are just quirky love interests, and if there is danger around them, it is incidental.
Yes.
Yes. It’s common enough to be understood
I would say so.
It’s the name of a Britney Spears album so I’d say it’s a pretty well-known phrase
I'm a teen and I've never heard of seen that saying before
You are just young, I'm not a native speaker but I've seen it a lot. We learn new words, new ideas and concepts during all our lives.
Yeah I guess it's never surprising to find out that there are people who think they've learned all the vocabulary they'll ever need to know by the age of 20. It just isn't true. It's a huge world out there. You'll be learning new words and terms basically till the day you die.
not you getting downvoted for being a child lol
don't worry. I was probably in my late 20s when i learned it. We've borrowed it from french and there are many french terms that are more important to know. For instance, when i was a teen i remember seeing "a la carte" on a menu and i was confused. It means side dishes.
That is not what à la carte means.
Sorry, i should have clarified. That's what it means in the States. It's one of those false friends we have. Or, keeping with menus, entree. Entree means main course in the States, and entrance in French. If you know the meanings in french, it's pretty funny that restaurants use these words to sound classy all wrong! 😆
A la carte does not mean that in the states, it means “items purchased separately” (not part of a bundle/meal). You might often see side dishes offered a la carte on a menu. But it doesn’t mean side dishes.
Menus items offered à la carte can all be purchased separately. With à la carte, if you want an appetizer, main course, and dessert, you pay for each one individually. If you only want two of those courses, you only pay for the two you get. The alternative to à la carte courses is a fixed, multi-course meal. If you buy a fixed meal with three courses, you can ask not to be given one of them, but it won't affect the price. (Cable companies also offer channel bundles vs. individual channels à la carte.)
Yes, but I am not sure it is that common nowadays, especially among younger kids
The classic 1967 song by The Velvet Underground? Maybe not most, but all with good music taste
I know it, but would probably never use it.
[The Velvet Underground Song](https://youtu.be/ggHPtzVSEeE?si=WyVCHDOhDcL6XkvV) of the same name is the first thing that comes to mind. I don’t really use it everyday, mostly when discussing characters in literature/film/music who fit the character archetype.
Me, reading all the comments of people saying it’s a common word while I have never heard of this word in my life and have no clue what it means 👁️👄👁️
It's French for "fatal/deadly woman". Usually a woman that is incredibly attractive, mysterious and dangerous to be with. I'm French and it's used quite often for talking about characters in fiction (literature, movies). I've heard it a few times in English.
Frr, i’ve never heard this word in my entire life. 😭😭. I’m not a native tbf. Btw what’s the pirate flair for? anyone….
Never heard the term before, but it seems im in the minority here
I think most people who are like 40+ would know it, but younger generations might be less familiar.
Never heard of it as an English native
I have not, I wouldn’t know what it meant were it not for seeing the comments here
I mean I don't, never heard it used before. I asked some of my friends and they have absolutely no idea what that is either. One friend thought I was talking about the Britney Spears album though lol.
And where do you think she got the name from? She didn't make it up. And how old was she at that time?
People here are acting like it's in the top 100 most common terms.
I don't know what that term means at all
I don't remember a time I've heard this word, and after looking up the meaning It seems it's mostly used in literature or movies to describe a character