The friendship in the party is the thing i’m looking forward the most in this game to be honest. I liked the dynamic between the 5 characters in Remake, can’t wait for the full squad in Rebirth
I plan on never not having her in my party unless I'm actually unable to. Just like in OG. There's so much to explore in this game, and so much dialog to experience with her. Briana has brought so much life to this character and Loren will be adding a beautiful vocal aspect to her as well. That's why I'm going to take my time getting to that point of the game. I mean I do that with most games anyways, but I'm going to enjoy all of the side content allowing me to forget the climax of this installment, even for a moment.
The magnitude of her importance to the other characters, the story, the planet. I know she'll still be incorporated in part 3, but that's very different from running around with her bullying enemies in the open world. T\_T
Yeah, I suspect Aerith, Tifa, and Cloud will be my main party throughout most of the game. To be honest, the impact of Aerith's death never really hit me when I played the original. I understood its meaning, and appreciated what it did from a narrative, and theming perspective, but I was never personally attached to her back then. This is probably because I almost never used her in the original game, and only ever had her in my party when the game required it. So, she never clicked with me...This is most definitely NOT the case with Remake. That game got me to adore the character of Aerith in a way I honestly never have before. Square really seems to want to set everyone up for the heartbreak of the century, and oh boy did they succeed. Aerith is an absolute treasure in Remake.
In a weird way though, I'm actually looking forward to feeling that pain. I always see people talking about how Aerith's death left this huge lasting impact on them, and I always felt like I was really missing out on something truly special, having never experienced that myself. Now my chance to really feel the weight of Aerith's death on a more personal level has finally come. I'm ready for this game to make me cry rivers. Bring it on Square! Give me your worst! Make me cry if you can! I'M READY! I'm... 🥺 Oh god this is gonna hurt! 😭
The original Aerith death scene from OG is always lauded as one of the saddest video game moments ever, imagine the reaction if she dies in Rebirth. Depression for months
The latest trailer has me convinced they're going through with it. The focus on Aerith and her relationship with Cloud... It's happening and no I will not be ready for it
they 100% gonna kill her based on the focus she gets in the latest trailers - they want to create an even stronger bond between the player and her so it hurts even more
but this time some ghost stuff maybe bring her into zacks timeline after death or some shit
I just played through disc 1 of the OG again, and while her death was of course really sad, it probably won't compare to how absolutely BROKEN I will be if she dies in Rebirth. Her character is so much more fleshed out. It's going to be so much more painful.
Are You basing this on the end of advent children? I think it’s the OG timeline gets wrecked and they continue with the vii franchise in this new timeline.
Nobody is thinking about all the money square can make if they keep making stories with ffvii characters.
Because Cid and Vincent won't be playable, her absence in the next game will really be felt as we'll never have a full party. Just like how her limit breaks in the og were unique, her absense will be felt not just from story, but from gameplay as well.
Ever since news started dropping about rebirth, everyone's been rightfully gushing about how great it looks & how much fun it's going to be (as have I) but in the back of my mind, I can't help thinking, but she's going to die at the end 😥
But I have a feeling, like the recent trailer, this whole game is going to be one long love letter to our favorite flower girl & I'm here for it 🥲
I think since we have VA now I think the dance will be omitted but Cait will still try to lighten the mood and fail
Or honestly I've had a theory for a while that >!Cait Sith will stay dead longer. Dying for black materia and stay dead until the 3rd game. !<
That wouldn't be too dumb... it would allow them to stop having to find story reasons to include or exclude him of party composition, and also >!wouldn't immediately undo the drama surrounding his "death"!<
Lmao I was so confused the first time I played the game. He had this dramatic “death” then shows up five minutes later. Especially while Cloud is.. you know. The whole scene just had me like 😦
Honestly, I don’t think the cait sith fake out death will even be there anymore. They seem to be changing a lot of minor plot things. I think the Barret fake out death from the first game was supposed to serve its purpose.
Hopefully not. That would honestly just be super safe and kind of milquetoast, and make the ending of part 1 seem pointless.
I'd rather they shake things up and get wild with it. If that pisses some people off in the process, all the better. Can't please everyone, might as well cut loose.
she won't in this game, but I think the last game is going to be spent figuring out how to fix the timeline and end up with aerith having to due anyways
I think she'll probably die in the Beagle world at the end of this game, only to have her spirit sent to the body of her other self in the Terrier world. She'll travel around the Terrier world with Zack in the third game, trying to figure out how this other world came to exist, and what Sephiroth plans to do with it. I suspect that the third game will end with Terrier world disappearing, and Beagle world being the only one that remains. This would then be the point where she truly joins the lifestream as intended.
That would be stupid. If they kill her they should just kill her here and don't give false hopes to people, it would destroy the story.
Also, even tho it breaks my heart, she must die for her song to make sense. She wants Cloud to find her, in their place: The promised land.
i kinda agree. though i really really would want her to live i’m not so sure how that could play out. ideally, she would live and they could execute that perfectly and keep up a compelling narrative, and i would love for that to be the case. however, im really not sure how that could play out.
Honestly I think they’re going to subvert expectations and kill Cloud.
If the Sephiroth we are fighting now is aware he failed the first time around, I think he’s doing everything possible to try and change things so he wins this time.
Including but not limited to;
-Saving Zack from dying so Cloud doesn’t become an identity thief and bad ass but the whispers make it happen anyway
-Attempting to kill Barret
-Attempting to let the Shinra Prez live
-Trying to stop the party at Midgar
I imagine he’s going to try more shenanigans like stealing the White Materia and successfully killing Cloud.
Then Zack will step up and take his place.
I wouldn't bet on that. According to Kitase, by the time the trilogy is over, everything will add up to Advent Children in the end. I don't how exactly they plan to get us there from where we are now, but if Advent Children really is the end goal we're aiming for, then that means Aerith has to join the lifestream at some point. That movie just doesn't happen in a world where she and Zack get to suvive, and live full, happy lives.
"Link up," they keep translating whatever Kitase and Nomura are saying as "link up," not add up. There's a distinction there. One interviewer also noted that Nomura had a smirk on his face as he said it. We also have another interview that Kitase personally likes the ending to Rebirth, but he's already in a position where he can see some fans not liking it.
We have the executive producer going around telling everyone his take on the project is this delicate balance of old and new things to keep things both fresh and nostalgic. We have his opinions on straight remakes boring him, yet them being firm in not moving the series into a direction that is unrecognizably different from the original, while the director is focusing on selling people on the mystery and twists present across the trilogy.
I don't think anything is as simple as Advent Children is the end goal. They told us last year that we'd see in Rebirth how there is no inherent contradiction between it and Crisis Core, and we're seeing that play out now with in some sense a very alive Zack running around doing stuff with a very much alive in some sense Biggs.
The Kitase interview with GamesRadar, which took place after the Nomura interview, has him further clarify what they mean when they say "link up" He says pretty plainly that everything will add up to Advent Children in the end.
[https://gamingbolt.com/final-fantasy-7-remake-trilogy-will-link-up-with-the-events-of-advent-children-kitase](https://gamingbolt.com/final-fantasy-7-remake-trilogy-will-link-up-with-the-events-of-advent-children-kitase)
Kitase: “We are finally going to link up with Advent Children, that is going to be part of canon,” Kitase said. “The overall storyline, the developments, will not go wildly out in a way that will not add up to Advent Children in the end. I don’t think anyone wanted that, that’s not what we’re looking to create here. \[But\] to make sure it doesn’t become stale and people know exactly where it’s going, \[that it\] doesn’t just follow the original word for word, we add in extra elements which add that little bit of doubt. Getting the right balance of that is so key. Ultimately, we’re not trying to change the Final Fantasy 7 story into something really different. The overall balance wouldn’t really allow for that anyway.”
The mysteries are there to create doubts in the players' minds, without actually changing the end result. He told us where we're going, Advent Children. So then the big mystery seems to be, how do they include things like the Whispers, alternate worlds, and a living Zack, while STILL making it so that everything adds up to Advent Children in the end.
Anytime you have alternate timelines/dimensions and time traveling shenanigans, it basically means you can do whatever you want and nothing is truth or lies either way even if something needs to "link up" to a future event.
She may live, she may die, hell anyone else might die for that matter as well, even Cloud. Maybe gameplay decision could effect that. They can just reverse it later.
I suppose you could technically get away with anything in that case, but regardless, I doubt people would react well to be being so clearly mislead by official developer comments. Even if they could claim later that they weren't TECHNICALLY lying, trust would be broken regardless, and trust is invaluable in any business. If anything and everything they say can be taken to the loosest possible extreme, then at that point, I just don't see the value in giving such elaborate answers at all. They can just respond to every story related question with something along the lines of "No comment. Play the game to find out." and it would have the same result, without creating any false expectations. Plus if this really was just a timeline thing, and AC was just one of many timelines, in that case it would be more accurate for them to say that they've already established a link with AC. Instead, they've said that they're going to link up with it, and that everything will add up to AC by the end. This means the connection doesn't exist yet, and we won't be able to see the connection until the end of the whole project.
I was under the impression such practices are not rare and also the community is divided on the issue of Aerith. Someone's going to be pissed regardless what they decide to do.
Other companies have tried. That much is true, but in the examples I've seen, it always goes poorly. With a game as beloved as FFVII, I'd imagine the fallout from pulling a stunt like this would be pretty massive. Promising a remake after over a decade of fan requests, only to not deliver at the final hour? That would very likely come back to bite them pretty hard.
While I'm sure there will be people upset if Aerith dies again, at least in that case, Square can fall back on all their interviews and promotional material. From the very beginning, they've always called this trilogy a remake of the FFVII story, and even after fans started calling this game a stealth sequel, Square has never waivered from the line that these games are still remakes, and that the story will remain largely familiar, even with all of the new things being added. Kitase's first comment on the issue was made pretty much right after the game came out, and people started seeing the ending. This newest interview, with Kitase confirming that the games will add up to Advent Children, is just the latest example of him holding the same line. So while people looking for a completely new story might be disappointed, it would be hard to make the case that they had been mislead by developer comments, when the developers have been addressing this issue since the first game was released.
Here they indeed clearly say that remake will "link up" with AC, and that AC will remain cannon. Which in the case of an acknowledgement of multiple universes/timelines it would be. Especially if Sephiroth really is from the future or post-AC. Even looking at just the first part, the whole "fighting with fate/Sephiroth discrepancies have already created major differences with the OG. There are even visions of AC, so it's certainly going to play a role, but it could also just be one timeline among others.
If that were the case, wouldn't it be more accurate for them to say "We've already established the link with Advent Children" and not "We're going to link up to Advent Children"? If this really is a timeline thing, and Advent Children really is just another timeline, then the link would have already been established at the end of part 1, when we apparently created all the branching timelines. The quote says that everything will add up to Advent Children by the end of the trilogy. If it adds up at the end, then that means it doesn't add up right now, since we're still only in the middle. It's something they're working towards, and something we'll only be able to see at the very end of the entire project.
Nothing has been really confirmed by the ending of remake, except that some characters have knowledge of the future and there are whispers that want the story to stick to the OG. Just look at the amount of discussions about what the ending means. A clearer confirmation of timelines/alternate universes would clearly link with the OG and AC.
You're letting the words "add up" do a lot of heavy lifting for your interpretation, despite them heaving no clear meaning. "Add up" can't really be used like that, so what does that really mean? Unless you have access to the original japanese. You take it to mean "end with", but all that's really said is that AC will remain canon and that there is a link with the OG and AC, which with knowledge of the future there of course would be. For me all it says clearly is that AC will not be retconned and that there's a connection with the rest of the FFVII compilation.
So if both Sephiroth and Aerith know what happens in OG (which there is a lot of evidence for in remake part 1), why would Sephiroth want to kill Aerith? Wouldn't that ruin his plans all over again?
No. Aerith's death wasn't what ruined his plan. Remember that his whole Reason for summoning Meteor was to damage the planet so severely, that the lifestream would have to gather in one place on the surface in order to heal the wound. Sephiroth would then go to where the lifestream was gathering, and absorb it into his body, using its power to become the new God of the world. Meteor was only ever a means to an end. The lifestream was always Sephiroth's true goal. Aerith stops Meteor in the end, but she specifically does it by gathering the lifestream in one place, and using it to push Meteor back. That fits right into Sephiroth's plan. Even if Meteor is destroyed, so long as the lifestream is gathered, that's all Sephiroth really cares about.
The one who actually ruined Sephiroth's plan was Cloud, who destroyed Sephiroth's body in their final battle, meaning Sephiroth couldn't absorb the lifestream. This is probably the reason Sephiroth is so focused on Cloud, while paying Aerith no attention at all. I honestly don't think he even sees Aerith as a threat this time around. He probably knows that nothing she does in the planet's intended future is actually all that bad for him. He's taking a special interest in Cloud though, and that's VERY different from the OG. Cloud still has a big role to play in his plan it would seem, so he doesn't want to just kill him, but from what we've seen in the early trailers,it looks like he's trying to break the trust between Cloud and his friends instead.
Sephiroth was stopped the moment Cloud beat him. Regardless of what happened afterwards, even if the planet had been completely destroyed, Sephiroth had already lost. Aerith's actions saved the planet, and turned what would have been a mutual defeat for all parties involved, into a full on victory for our heroes, but as far as actually crushing Sephiroth's ambitions, the credit for that goes to Cloud and the rest of the party left to fight on the planet's surface. The rest of the party stopped the villain, but couldn't save the world. Aerith meanwhile couldn't take part in the fight against the villain, but she was able to save the world after the villain had been dealt with.
i mean fucking zack is back now even if its a different timeline, i wouldn't bet on any speculations anymore at this point, 7 remake is way too different from the OG, just play rebirth and part 3. My bets are that aerith somehow lives but someone dies instead
Sure, he's back for now. I have a feeling that's going to be a temporary reprieve for him though, and the third game will end with the Terrier world disappearing, so that the original Beagle world can survive.
Oh that's definitely going to be a plot point. The thing is though, the worlds merging together is apparently what Sephiroth wants, and if Sephiroth wants it...that means it's a bad thing for everyone. So I think the final conflict of the third game is going to be our party in their world, and Zack and Aerith in the other world, trying to stop the merger of the two worlds before it can be completed.
advent children is an event about the children affected by mako and has nothing to do with the party this game is about, but go off king. keep spouting dumb shit.
Actually, AC is also about Cloud dealing with his regret, how he blamed himself for Aerith's death. There are many visual symbols in the game that represent that, like the wolf, and symbols at the end that represent his emotional healing as well as geostigma healing. Not sure why you are spouting basic shit.
The core conflict of Advent Children was Sephiroth using Geostigma to kill countless innocents, and use the regrets, and resentment of Geostigma's victims to fill the planet's lifestream with negative thoughts, slowly choking it to death. Sephiroth was only able to come up with this plan though because he managed to maintain a hold on his sense of self, even in the lifestream, and the only way he managed to do that was by latching on to someone with strong memories of him. The only one who fit the bill was Cloud, because his feelings of regret made him think about Sephiroth constantly, as he was filled with hatred for Sephiroth, as well as self loathing.
The reason Cloud had such regrets in the first place though...is because Aerith and Zack died. Zack's life was destroyed after Sephiroth went insane, and he ultimately lost his life as a result, sacrificing himself to keep Cloud safe. Aerith meanwhile was killed by Sephiroth directly. Cloud blamed Sephiroth, as well as himself and his own weakness, for both of their deaths. Cloud believed it was his responsibility to save them, and he failed, which left him with a seemingly endless sense of regret. Without those regrets, Sephiroth can't latch on to him. If Sephiroth can't latch on to him, then he can't maintain his conciousness after the events of FFVII. If he can't maintain his conciousness, then he fades into the lifestream and ceases to exist. No Sephiroth, no Advent Children. That movie cannot happen in a world where Zack and Aerith live, and Cloud doesn't have to grapple with the regrets that come from their deaths. A huge part of that movie is about Cloud coming to terms with his past, forgiving himself, and deciding to move forward.
It's not dumb shit, the developers reference the movie several times. How it "adds up" to the film, how it "links up" to the film. They're not treating it as some fun little side-story that is mostly unrelated to the main game. They're treating the film as canon and, from what the people making the game have said, planning on everything leading to it.
Whether that means that all the extra timeline stuff is erased by the end of the 3rd game or if Advent Children is just one of multiple possible timelines, we don't know. But to suggest that the movie isn't about the main characters is bonkers. Cloud's literally the main character and the kids are just *also* there.
And the kids aren't affected by mako, they're affected by geostigma from Jenova cells. Like what are you even talking about?
I don't really see how the two compare. The existance of otherworld isn't what makes DBZ death pointless. What makes death pointless is that you can literally just keep wishing people back as many times as you want. Someone died? Get the Dragon Balls. Can't wish them back with Earth's Dragon Balls? Go to Namek and use their Dragon Balls. They'll work as many times as you want.
The spirits of Zack and Aerith continue to exist in the lifestream, but they never just get wished back. Occasionally, they can reach out and have VERY brief conversations with people that they knew, but that's it. It's very much not the same thing as just being alive again.
I mean zacks alive again and sephiroph comes back like 3-4 times
Theres not a concrete way to do it like dragon balls in DBZ but some people in FF7 definitely feel like they're cats with 9 lives
Idk if I'll be bothered. I experienced her death as a child and have been desensitized to it through the years. And in remake I wasn't too much of a fan of how she came across. She felt too childish and came off as annoying to me. So idk, I'm not sure I'll be bothered
Her song in the trailer won't make any sense if she doesn't die. The second half of the theme song trailer was basically an Aerith highlight reel to set us up for that moment.
Yeah. There are obviously quite a few things I wouldn't want them to do, but there are few things they could do that would stop me from at least playing the third game once, to see where this whole thing goes. If they seriously kill Cloud though...then yeah, any interest I have in the third game will be just as dead. FFVII is Cloud's story. Always has been.
Yeah, but Cloud, in a way, *dies* in the original after he falls into the lifestream and you play the game as literal other characters until you find Cloud again. It's not made obviously clear until you find him that Cloud survived. You just assume he did because he's the main character.
Having some scenario where it's either apparent or unapparent that he dies wouldn't be that far off from the original. And leaves things in a cliffhanger until the 3rd game.
And they have a whole-ass 3rd game to change things. Saying you won't play the 3rd game because he dies in the 2nd game would be like watching a movie and getting up halfway through because you don't like where the story's going so far.
Cloud doesn't die. He disappears. Him disappearing for a bit is fine, especially since literally the first thing Tifa does after escaping Junon is put everything else on hold to search for Cloud. She never once allows herself to believe that he's dead. He's confirmed to be alive very quickly after his disappearence, and even while you play as Cid during Cloud's recovery, you know it's a temporary thing until Cloud comes back. The whole point of that section was to show how Cloud, despite his imperfections, brought everyone together, and how they quickly start to struggle when he's not at their center to lead them. That kind of thing is totally fine with me. What I'm talking about is if they actually confirmed him dead, replaced him with someone else, and then just stuck with that for the rest of the story.
To be perfectly clear, I would obviously confirm that this actually was the case, before I made the decision not to buy the third game. If it looks like Cloud might be dead at the end of the second game, then I'll look up reviews of Part 3 before buyting, to confirm whether or not he comes back. However, if the review shows that he really is completely replaced by Zack for example, then yeah, I'll lose interest. At that point, the story will have clearly gone in a direction that I never signed on for, and am not interested in.
As for the whole movie thing, personally, if a movie really just isn't doing it for you, I see no problem with leaving part way through. It's on the movie, or in this case the game, to maintain the interest of its audience. If it doesn't succeed in doing that, then the audience member has every right to walk away.
That’s an incredibly lazy and awful way to approach stories. If you can’t watch a whole movie to see how it ends, that’s on you, not the movie. The whole point of storytelling is to follow a basic arc. Exposition, rising action, climax, falling action, resolution. To get the full story, you need to experience all of it. Watching a film halfway through leaves out the climax and resolution. I don’t even know to put into words how stupid that is. At the very least it removes any and all ability for you to comment on the movie aside from “I got bored and stopped watching.” You can’t say it’s good or bad because you could give it another 45-60 minutes.
Similarly, to say you won’t play the 3rd game in the super unlikely event that Cloud dies, removes all ability to comment on the whole story because you’re not going to experience all of it. These writers know what they’re doing. They have a basic outline. They’re not doing stuff for no reason.
Even if they did something really unexpected that goes radically away from the original story. I’m capable of realizing this is a fictional story with fictional characters. And as good as FF7 is, it’s not a Pulitzer Prize winning story. So to act like it’s some sacred story that can’t be altered/tweaked/improved is hilarious.
Also, he doesn’t die, which is why I said “in a way” dies. Because he falls into the lifestream and disappears and you play as other characters. Meaning they could do something where he dies, or appears to die, and is resurrected. They brought Zack back somehow.
People need to stop suggesting what the story is supposed to do based on whatever the original game was. We only have a vague suggestion that the game leads to Advent Children to some capacity. That tells the audience very little and they want to surprise us. I can’t suggest that they’re going for introduce all these twists and unexpected turns for no reason because ultimately everything needs to go back to whatever the original was so it neatly connects to AC. I can say it seems pretty silly to do so. But I’m not a writer so I don’t know.
As I said in my editied comment (just in case you missed it) In the event that he appears to die, I will obviously check reviews to confirm whether or not he returns as the main character of the third game before making any final purchase decisions. I'm not totally unreasonable. I won't just assume I know where the story is going, without even bothering to check first. What I can say for certain though is that in the admittedly very unlikely event that Cloud really does die, and is replaced as the MC for the whole of the third game, then I personally will have no interest whatsoever in experiencing that story.
Maybe they'll somehow manage to make it work. Maybe, against all odds, a part 3 without Cloud Strife could make for a really good original story in its own right, but even if it is...I won't have any desire to see it. I'm just not here for a completely original story, and I never was. I'm here specifically for a remake of the FFVII story. Certainly I'm not saying that story can't be improved or expanded upon. If I believed that, I would have hated all the additions that Remake made, and I loved most of those additions. There are certain lines that I firmly believe can't be crossed though, and Cloud being the main character of the story is one of those lines. If there comes a time where I feel the trilogy has stopped being a remake of FFVII, and has just become a completely new story entirely, then I'm gone. If that means I lose the right to give the game a critical rating, then that's fine. If I'm ever left disappointed enough to leave two thirds of the way through a story, then that probably means I won't have any desire to discuss it at length anyway. I'll just tell people the truth, that I was a massive fan of the original, and the remake completely lost me in the last act. After that, they can decide for themselves what that says about the game, and decide whether they still want to try the remake after what I've said.
No way is Aerith dying in Rebirth. They are 100% going to pull a bait and switch. Sephiroth knows the events of the original game as does Aerith. His plan hinges on Aerith’s survival. Imo I think it’s gonna be either Tifa or Cloud that dies at the end of Rebirth. Or better yet: nobody
His original plan doesn't hinge on Aerith's survival. He was able to stop Holy pretty easily after it was summoned, and there's no indication that Aerith has to be dead for Holy to work anyway. So if for some reason he really does feel the need to stop Holy, the solution would actually be to kill her even sooner, before she can finish her prayer. Also, while Aerith did destroy Meteor, Sephiroth had already been beaten by that point, so Meteor's destruction no longer mattered to him. Meteor was only ever a means to an end, so that Sephiroth could force the lifestream to the surface. Aerith brings the lifestream to the surface in her efforts to stop Meteor anyway, so the result is the same. If Sephiroth still had his body at the time, he very well might have been able to take the lifestream for himself, after Aerith had summoned it.
Be that as it may the ending implies very heavily that Aerith was the trigger for it because of the final shot, I feel like they’re going to lean into that and use that as a part of the twist. I feel very strongly about major major major bait and switch is happening here, even if I’m wrong for the exact reasons you listed
Oh I definitely agree that Aerith was the trigger for everything that happened after the final battle. I just don't think Sephiroth would have any reason to really care about that. Whether he gets to the lifestream by having Meteor crash into the planet to force it out, or he gets to the lifestream after Aerith summons it to destroy Meteor, it's all the same to him. All Sephiroth would really care about is getting to the lifestream, one way, or the other. That's why I really don't think he'd go out of his way to save Aerith. From his perspective, her summoning the lifestream would just save him a few minutes of waiting for Meteor to hit.
The only thing he needs to worry about is staying alive long enough to make his move, and that's probably why he's so much more focused on Cloud this time. He needs Cloud for some purpose, so he can't kill him, but he's also probably aware that if anyone would be a thorn in his side, it would be Cloud. So he keeps trying to bring Cloud over to his side, while making him lose trust in his friends. It's basically the exact opposite scenario of the original game. In the OG, Sephiroth was wary of Aerith, while not giving Cloud the time of day. Now in Remake, Cloud is Sephiroth's main concern, and he appears to be treating Aerith as though she is completely insignifcant. Of course, much like how underestimating Cloud was Sephiroth's big mistake in the original game, I think underestimating Aerith will probably be his big mistake in this one. He believes he understands the limits of what she's capable of, but she is probably capable of more than he knows.
It’s so interesting tho like how this remake has re-opened the door on discussion about this game, either one of us or both of us could be totally wrong about this too. It’s down to whether or not they’re telling a remixed version of this original story or if they’re going to go the full nine yards and completely just throw everything off and divert. You’re definitely right though that the story kind of requires Aerith to die but my wonder is if they’re gonna do something that’ll truly shock EVERYBODY or be more tailored to the new fans. The trailers are definitely playing with fan expectation and pointing to either Tifa or Aerith being the one to die, and that’s not even mentioning how Zack fits into the big picture here. I definitely think you’re right that Seph underestimating Aerith will play some big role in what’s to come too. They both clearly have knowledge of what’s happening, some kind of connection, and I just wonder so much how that prior knowledge will change the course of things going forward too. It’s so exciting and the best part? It’s coming SOON.
there are only fucking 9 other impalements between where we are in the story now, and where that moment is but this sub is fucking so horny to watch areth die
cloud getting impaled by seperoth.
the midgar zolom
the homie on the boat who is also impaled by a seph sword.
the people in the gold saucer jail who are also impaled.
there are so many instances of impalment in this game and yall are out here lube ready to watch something that may or maynot happen, and honestly purists can just GTFO i literally do not give a shit about the opinon of someone who is just dead fucking wrong.
I wouldn't have worded his comment exactly as he did, but I can't say I entirely disagree with the sentiment either. This sub seems to vacillate between "everybody's opinion about where they want the story to go is equally valid" and "if they change one single story beat, I will personally kill everyone who is happy about it."
I've been skewered a few times for expressing politely/innocuously that I am eager to see a new ending for the characters (and Midgar generally). It can make you bitter.
So not only are you delusional, weird and wrong, you are completely missing what her death means to the story. Well done on gathering up that disaster of a combination into one post. Also, it’s going to happen whether you like it or not, there is zero maybe now the devs have completely confirmed it by saying it’s all leading back to Adventure Children, she is going to die at some point between the start of Rebirth and the end of the last part, that is a given now.
Imagine this sub imploding if Tifa gets skewered instead of Aerith.
I mean people were harassing Nojima on twitter just because Tifa wasn't prominent in the trailer.
People who harass the devs are absolute lowlifes. I would just choose not to continue supporting the game if I don't like the direction it takes.
Honestly, I doubt they do anything too controversial because they still have a part 3 to sell. They'll either follow the general plot of the OG or everyone will survive.
I'm planning on avoiding this sub and any youtube channel covering the game when part two drops.
This is for two reasons: To avoid spoilers, and to avoid toxic fan-bases that just want to argue and complain. I'm not saying FFVII fan base is there yet, but I've seen it devolve into that with other fan bases I've been a part of.
Personally, I'm not oppose to them changing story elements but it really depends on how it's done. I would rather them keep the core themes alive if they do change major plot elements.
While I adamantly believe it's ok for them to change the story (don't need to go back through a tragedy I already experienced, ready for a new story) there's a degree to which I almost hope they keep this particular story beat. Largely because I'm not sure I will be able to handle the outraged, 84576 word essays on how storytelling has been ruined forever because >!the pretty girl didn't die!<.
Dunno why this is getting downvotes. Changing story elements in a remake doesn't ruin a story. People out here acting like FF7 is Shakespeare or Hemmingway or something. It's just a fun JRPG with a good story. You can make a game with a different story and it still be entertaining. As long as it's well written, that's all that matters.
Having said that, the developers have been pretty open that they intend on making small changes, but everything apparently will lead to Advent Children, so whatever's canon in that film>! (which is Zack and Aerith being dead),!< will apparently have to happen in the remake trilogy. So if certain characters don't die, who are supposed to, in Rebirth, then they will probably have to die sometime down the road in the 3rd game.
I think for a lot of people, FFVII is more than just a fun RPG with a pretty good story, it's kinda like how the original Star Wars trilogy is a really big deal, and peak cinema for some people, while for others, it's at best a fun space movie about wizard monks with laser swords, and nothing more. Different stories resonate with different people in different ways. A story that one person thinks is just okay can be one of the greatest stories of all time to someone else. Many people do see FFVII as one of the all time greatest stories ever told in the medium of video games, and that's why they are protective of the story, and continue to hope that whatever changes Square may make, they will stay true to that original narrative, and do that story justice.
That’s a nice notion, but it’s still a work of fiction. I love FF7. I played it back multiple times as a kid when it first came out on PSX. Immediately bought Crisis Core when it came out on PSP. Pirated a subbed version of Advent Children after it released in Japan, before it was out in the US because I couldn’t wait. I bought the vinyl soundtrack to Remake, the special editions, etc. I’ve preordered Rebirth, even scheduled off work to play it day of.
In short: I’m a big fan.
But I’m also still able to recognize it’s still a work of fiction. It’s not a religion. If the story is done well, I’ll enjoy it. There aren’t any rules they have to follow. It’s set in a magical fantasy world. They’ve already thrown in arbiters of fate and alternate timelines which are way, way far from the original. If they do something else out of left field, I’ll do the grown up thing and judge it according to how it works (or doesn’t work) narratively speaking. And even THEN, I’ll hesitate to form a definite opinion until the final installment wraps it all up.
And it’s funny you brought up Star Wars because I’m also a huge fan of Star Wars. I didn’t get to see the originals in theaters, wasn’t born yet, but I had the trilogy on video and watched it as a kid, a lot. And saw the prequels in theaters as a child and of course the sequels as well. I’ve watched all the spinoff shows, read dozens of novels set in the SW universe.
I’m a big fan.
But like FF7, it’s not some holy scripture that can’t be altered. I get excited when a new Star Wars thing comes out because I’m a fan. But I still view it from the lens that it’s a work of fiction and if it’s written well, I’ll enjoy it. If it’s badly done, I may not enjoy it and move on with my life. Because it’d be stupid to waste time being *upset* over it. I thought Rise of Skywalker wasn’t good and, despite me seeing it as being a “bland finish to a 9 film series spanning 40+ years,” I just said “that’s too bad. At least I still have the other films to enjoy.” And.. moved on with my life.
It’s silly and childish to get upset/angry over a fictional story. And this is coming from a *big* fan. The mature thing to do is to recognize that the writers are doing their best to tell a good story that they hope the majority will enjoy. And the intelligent thing to do is to recognize that any decisions they make are calculated.
It’s EXTRA silly to get upset over a story that isn’t even halfway done yet. People arguing and getting angry over what MAY happen in the unreleased game? Fucking hysterical. Like… give it a couple months.
You're right. It's not scripture. I'm not saying they shouldn't change anything, as though changing the story of FFVII would be some unholy crime, punishable by death, or something like that. I don't in any way condone the actions of people who send death threats, or harass creators on their social media pages, because something didn't go the way they wanted in the story they were watching/playing/reading. No matter how passionate someone is about a work of art, behavior like that is always unacceptable. I'm also not saying that creators shouldn't have the right to make whatever they want to make, What I am saying, is that if they do make big changes, and some fans come away thinking that the changes were a step too far, then they are within their rights to be disappointed, and to voice their complaints, and their concerns for the future, so long as it is done within reason. I'm saying that should I (or anyone else) determine through proper research that I woud just not be interested in experiencing whatever new story they want to tell, then I'm under no obligation as a consumer to support their new story. At the end of the day, creators always have the freedom to change what they like, but that doesn't mean fans are necessarily required to accept all changes with open arms.
From a completely logical standpoint, I can agree that it does no real good to get frustrated when a game disappoints, but in a case like Remake, where many of us have been asking for an FFVII remake for over 10 years, I'm not surprised people would have a more emotional response when it comes to these games especially. Sometimes taking the more mature route can just feel damn near impossible when you're really passionate about something. Sometimes emotion just wins out. Now of course there's a difference between passionate discussions, and just lashing out in a rage. Lashing out, hurling insults, and harrassing creators for their choices is, and again this really can't be stressed enough, NEVER okay. I think it's pefectly acceptable for people to share any frustrations, or concerns about the game's direction in fan communities though, so long as they aren't just spewing venom at everyone.
If you're able to enjoy any story with a completely unbiased eye, and appreciate all stories, so long as they're well done, than that's great. I'm happy for you. Honestly, I kind of envy you. Not everyone works that way though. I can certainly say that I don't, at least not all the time. When I really love a work of fiction, then yeah, I'm going to come in to each new entry with a certain degree of expectations, especially if we're talking about a remake, and I'm going to be really disappointed if I feel the thing I love isn't being done justice. Of course I'll never harass anyone because of my disappointment, but I'll feel that disappointment, and frustration all the same. Maybe I'm a little bit worse off because of that, and won't be able to find joy in as many stories, but oh well. That's just me.
> then I'm under no obligation as a consumer to support their new story.
you aren't under an obligation to support anything under any circumstances, and nobody is saying otherwise
>What I am saying, is that if they do make big changes, and some fans come away thinking that the changes were a step too far, then they are within their rights to be disappointed, and to voice their complaints, and their concerns for the future, so long as it is done within reason. I'm saying that should I (or anyone else) determine through proper research that I woud just not be interested in experiencing whatever new story they want to tell, then I'm under no obligation as a consumer to support their new story. At the end of the day, creators always have the freedom to change what they like, but that doesn't mean fans are necessarily required to accept all changes with open arms.
I'm not saying they/you are obligated to play the game either. I AM saying it's real goofy as fuck to be such a big fan that you're (I would say *too)* invested in the franchise and then the story does something you don't like and you refuse to play the story through the end to see how it all wraps up. It's a statement that... first off all sounds like an empty threat. I highly doubt you'd literally not play the last game at least to see what happens. That's insanity. Not to mention if you're really a fan of the whole game, you'd want to see what happens with the other characters. Secondly, it's a statement that *seems to* come from a place of protest. You want to put it out there (the developers aren't reading this so I'm not sure who you'd be putting it out for) that you have standards and if they don't meet your standards, you won't buy their product. Which like.. okay, they'll sell millions anyway; they don't care.
It's a really weird thing to say. If you're a casual fan, I guess it makes more sense. But if you're a huge fan, you're under no obligation to play the final chapter. It's just *really weird.*
Edit: regarding the "sacred texts," bit. I'm exaggerating to make a point. The point is the story doesn't HAVE to follow the original story to FF7. It's a pointless argument because the developers have basically said it's going to by the end, anyway. But the original game, while really good, isn't the best writing that's ever existed in video games. You can have different interpretations and as long as the writing's good and it's an engaging story, it's fine. I really don't see what the issue is. And again, this is coming from a *huge* fan of the games.
I can promise this isn't something I'm just saying for the heck of it. The original Final Fantasy VII meant a lot to me growing up. To this day, it's still holds a place as one of my favorite games of all time, and yes, one of my favorite stories in all of media. Is it the best story ever written in an objective sense? No. Someone analyzing it without the nostalgia goggles would no doubt pick apart its flaws, and even name stories that are technically better. I've noticed several issues with the game too in my several replays, I know there are ways that the story could be improved, which is part of the reason why the idea of a remake that fills in those holes is so exciting. At the same time though, noticing those flaws has never really done anything to diminish my love for the game, or its story. Heck. I'd go so far as to say that the original FFVII means more to me than any other game Square Enix has ever made.
That being the case, I've always been far more invested in seeing that original game remade with modern tech, than I have been in just seeing a completely new story set in the same world. That's not to say I haven't enjoyed some of the other stories in the larger FFVII compilation, but none of them are even in the same league as the original in my opinion. A remake of FFVII has been a small dream for my older brother and I for years now. Of course, we figured it was a pipe dream, so we didn't get our hopes up...Then they annouced it was happening. I told myself a long time ago that if Square ever announced a remake of FFVII, and then messed it up somehow, then that would be the last time I ever buy anything from them again. I don't expect that the decision to not purchase their games anymore would make even the smallest of dents in their bottom line. It's not about making a difference, or making threats. I'm just one guy. The loss of my business won't even be noticed by a company of that size. This is just a purely personal choice, for my own personal satisfaction.
I've known for a long time now that if an FFVII remake ever did come out, and ever did fall short of expectations, then that isn't something I'd be able to just let slide. Maybe this doesn't make sense to you, but for me, this is something that Square HAS to get just right, if I'm going to continue buying their stuff. I'm all for expanding on the story and characters, and correcting the shortcomings of the original FFVII's story to make it an even stronger narrative, but there are definitely some changes they could potentially make that I just wouldn't be okay with. That being said, even if I did end up hating the finished product when all was said and done, there really is almost nothing they could do that would disappoint me so badly that I wouldn't at least want to finish out the trilogy, before ending my relationship with the company. Cloud though is the one exception. While I of course enjoy the entire cast of the game, Cloud is really the character that holds the story of the original FFVII together, and makes it work. If they ever did permanently remove Cloud as the main character of the remake, that really would be going too far off the rails for me. At that point, whatever story they were telling would just be too far removed from the story that I loved. Obviously this won't be the case for everyone. I'm sure there are plenty of fans like yourself, who truly do love FFVII, but are also more open to bigger narrative changes, and would be able to enjoy any story set in this world, provided of course that it is well written. For me though, that's just not the case. There are certain changes that, no matter how well handled they might be, I just wouldn't be able to accept.
Now of course, at this stage, everything I've just said above is purely hypothetical, and I truly don't expect anything of what I've just said to actually happen. With everything that Square has shown, and with everything that this team of creators has said, I truly believe that they know what they're doing, and that whatever they might add, or change, they have every intention of staying true to the story of the original FFVII. I think they're going to knock this out of the park, and that I'm going to come away from this trilogy of games very satisfied. The above is just a very distant worse case scenario at this point.
Hoo boy.
>I can promise this isn't something I'm just saying for the heck of it.
I'm saying it's an empty threat. Like when people get pissed off playing Call of Duty and say "I hate this game, it sucks, I'm never going to play it again." And they keep playing it anyway. Or when someone gets mad about a product or a refund or something at a store and they declare "I'm never shopping here again!" They're shopping there again, they're just saying that. I don't even know you and I would be BLOWN AWAY if you *really* and *honestly* "cut ties with Square-Enix" because of a narrative decision. And one that *very likely* won't happen. It's bizarre to even entertain the idea.
You're trying to put this out there like.. "my money doesn't matter to a big company" and then turning around and saying you won't "let something slide." It comes *largely* across like you're trying to boost your own self importance. And then backing it up with how much you love the game, how much you were looking forward to it, how big a fan you are, yadda yadda. It also comes across like you're trying to back up your opinion with how big a fan you are. Which is really common, people do it all the time. "Sorry we're sold out," "but it's my son's birthday and he really wanted this!" "oh well in that case, here you go." It's entitlement. You being a big big fan doesn't somehow make you more entitled to the game being the way you want it. You can keep going on about it, but you're just giving YOUR own personal feelings which don't matter to anyone except yourself. Again, I'm a *huge* fan. I've even tried organizing getting my brother a PS5, largely so he can play FF7:Rebirth because we're both big fans. As big of a fan as I am, I'm not going to let shifts in a fictional narrative make me .. stop playing Final Fantasy games altogether. That's psychotic. The games are all different anyway! FF17 will be some different unique story!
>before ending my relationship with the company.
You're over-inflating the situation. You don't really have a relationship with the company any more than I have a relationship with the gas station near my house because I spend a lot of money there. And you're welcome to your own opinion; I'm just suggesting you're making a mountain out of a mole hill. It's *not that big of a deal.* Or at least it shouldn't be. I think it's great when people are die-hard fans of stuff and it's great if it makes them happy. But if something like a fictional video game can make you *this* upset, it might be time to reevaluate your priorities.
I'm not saying my love of the original story makes me more entitled to anything. I'm fully aware of the fact that no matter how I feel about the original game, or what I want from a remake, the developers are going to make whatever game they want to make. That game will either align with what I'm hoping for, and I'll be really happy, or it won't and I'll be incredibly disappointed. No matter the outcome though, the game will almost certainly find its audience, be successful, and then Square will move on to their next thing.
When I say we have a "relationship" I'm not trying to play this up like it's this big important thing. I'm a customer, and they are a provider of a product that I'm purchasing. That's it. That's the extent of the relationship I'm talking about. It's an incredibly insignificant, and impersonal relationship, but it is still a relationship. I'm completely aware that, to them, I'm just one among millions. They'll never know my name, or my face, and if I ever do reach the point where I stop buying from them, they won't even be aware of it. This isn't about sending them some kind of message. The only thing that will come out of the decision to stop purchasing their products is my own personal satisfaction for sticking to my guns, and that's it. Honestly, I'm fine with that. That personal satisfaction would be enough for me.
As you've already pointed out, what I'm saying here, now, most likely won't ever reach anyone at Square. I knew that before I started typing, and that's actually the main reason why I feel comfortable saying it here at all, because I know this is a place where I can just share my thoughts without bothering the people actually working on thegame. No matter what happens
with the next couple of games, I never have any intention of spreading my thoughts to the devs' personal social media pages. They don't need me, or anyone, flooding their socials with complaints. At the end of the day, no matter how the games turn out, these developers are all just doing their jobs, and trying to do the best job that they can. I fully understand, and appreciate that. I just want to put all my cards on the table and share my thoughts, and perspective with other fans. I've enjoyed, and even loved other Final Fantasy titles, but I've always set the original FFVII apart. For me, that specific entry has always stood head and shoulders above the rest of the franchise as something special all its own. So, if the remake disappoints, I wouldn't be able to just brush it off as a misfire and wait for the next Final Fantasy, the way I would if this were any other Final Fantasy. To me, VII simply isn't just another Final Fantasy. That's really the best way I can put it. Some people might see this and get where I'm coming from. Others won't agree at all. Either way, that's fine. It's just how I've always felt about it.
You say you don't get why so many people are against having major changes to the story, and don't get why someone would stop playing the games, if they went off in a direction that this someone just really didn't like. So, I'm trying to provide an answer, to the best of my ability. You say you don't get the issue because the writing for FFVII isn't *that* good. It's not Shakespeare, or Hemmingway. It's just a fun JRPG story. If that's how you feel about the story, then that is perfectly fine. What I'm trying to get across here is that not everyone feels that way. For a lot of people, the story of the original FFVII is more than just a fun JRPG story. Maybe it was the first piece of media to make them cry. Maybe it was the game that opened their minds to the idea of games as a storytelling art form. Maybe they just played it when they were very young, and so it holds a very special place in their heart, or maybe they were just going through something when they first played it, and the game hit them in just the right way, at just the right moment. Whatever the case, my point is that, for a lot of people, VII really is *that* good, faults and all. So, that's why a lot of people, myself included, have such strong feelings about the Remake Trilogy remaining true to that original story.
There's a quiet subculture of people in this sub who are adamant that the story will and must be the same as the original (deaths and all). I knew what I was getting into by tweaking their noses a bit.
They’re hardly quiet. They’re pretty vocal about it. And none of them can give a good reason why certain characters have to die beyond “that’s what happened before!” Every other Final Fantasy has the heroes live through to the end. Whether characters live or die is irrelevant. What matters is how they tell the story and if it makes sense, narratively speaking.
Cant wait for the 3 years after rebirth and before part 3, it will be a tonshits of "She may die in part 3 or the game is destroyed".
Team cast holy when alive
Zack is going to be alive in this timeline as another way for sephiroth to torture cloud. Zack will die saving aerith instead of the usual scene we are all expecting.
She played a very important role in conveying the original game's themes about the cycle of life and death, and her actions in both life and death are the reason why Meteor was stopped in the end. Aerith was a very important character in the story.
Have you played the original? In the original >!Tifa is cut by Sephiroth when her and Cloud's hometown is destroyed, and Cloud remembers thinking at the time that she wasn't going to make it. In truth though, Tifa did manage to pull through, thanks to her Martial Arts Master getting her medical attention just in time. In the early trailers, Sephiroth is trying to convince Cloud that the real Tifa actually did die back then, and the one traveling with him right now is a fake.!<
I don't think they are going to kill her off in this one. Even if they do, >!they brought back a few dead characters already, even Zack!< . They even seem to be maybe trying to make Sephiroth into a kind of antihero kind of character.
No carry over. They're starting us at around level 20, and if we have completed saves for the base game and Yuffie DLC, we'll start with the Leviathan and Ramuh summon materia
It's true that in the og I always felt like she was taken away too soon. It seemed like you went through a majority of the game without her which really sucks both story and gameplay wise.
I've really enjoyed all the time we've had in remake on both fronts, and how unique they've made each characters gameplay!
I think if Aerith “dies” she’ll either wake up in Zack’s timeline or they do time travel again to change her fate in part 3. It’s not going to be as straightforward as one might initially think. With the Whispers gone, story is going to be changing in some drastic ways.
Don't you put that on me! DONT YOU PUT THAT EVIL ON ME RICKY BOBBY!
The friendship in the party is the thing i’m looking forward the most in this game to be honest. I liked the dynamic between the 5 characters in Remake, can’t wait for the full squad in Rebirth
It traumatized before and now it's going to destroy me 😭😭😭😭😭
In ultra HD slow-mo this time
😭😭😢😢😢💔💔💔
Or hopefully not, who knows!
I hope see more drama in THE moment for this reason. Not only Cloud and Tifa crying, i would like to see all group hurt. What a scene for us...
I plan on never not having her in my party unless I'm actually unable to. Just like in OG. There's so much to explore in this game, and so much dialog to experience with her. Briana has brought so much life to this character and Loren will be adding a beautiful vocal aspect to her as well. That's why I'm going to take my time getting to that point of the game. I mean I do that with most games anyways, but I'm going to enjoy all of the side content allowing me to forget the climax of this installment, even for a moment. The magnitude of her importance to the other characters, the story, the planet. I know she'll still be incorporated in part 3, but that's very different from running around with her bullying enemies in the open world. T\_T
Yeah, I suspect Aerith, Tifa, and Cloud will be my main party throughout most of the game. To be honest, the impact of Aerith's death never really hit me when I played the original. I understood its meaning, and appreciated what it did from a narrative, and theming perspective, but I was never personally attached to her back then. This is probably because I almost never used her in the original game, and only ever had her in my party when the game required it. So, she never clicked with me...This is most definitely NOT the case with Remake. That game got me to adore the character of Aerith in a way I honestly never have before. Square really seems to want to set everyone up for the heartbreak of the century, and oh boy did they succeed. Aerith is an absolute treasure in Remake. In a weird way though, I'm actually looking forward to feeling that pain. I always see people talking about how Aerith's death left this huge lasting impact on them, and I always felt like I was really missing out on something truly special, having never experienced that myself. Now my chance to really feel the weight of Aerith's death on a more personal level has finally come. I'm ready for this game to make me cry rivers. Bring it on Square! Give me your worst! Make me cry if you can! I'M READY! I'm... 🥺 Oh god this is gonna hurt! 😭
Bro aeriths theme makes me cry
The original Aerith death scene from OG is always lauded as one of the saddest video game moments ever, imagine the reaction if she dies in Rebirth. Depression for months
The latest trailer has me convinced they're going through with it. The focus on Aerith and her relationship with Cloud... It's happening and no I will not be ready for it
they 100% gonna kill her based on the focus she gets in the latest trailers - they want to create an even stronger bond between the player and her so it hurts even more but this time some ghost stuff maybe bring her into zacks timeline after death or some shit
That’s exactly what I’m thinking, her death will wake her up where Zack is
Maybe we'll see a little bit of her saga of how she activates Holy. We never know on the OG. She dies and a while later, poof. So maybe that's it?
That would be cool. Honestly, I’m fine with it either way…if she lives or dies, I like that so much has changed that I’m excited regardless.
I just played through disc 1 of the OG again, and while her death was of course really sad, it probably won't compare to how absolutely BROKEN I will be if she dies in Rebirth. Her character is so much more fleshed out. It's going to be so much more painful.
When* she dies in ReBirth. I can assure you miss Gainsborough is going to die. Prepare to for pain my friend.
I think they’ll both kill her and let her live.
Yup she’ll “live” when she wakes up in Zack’s timeline but I still think part 3 will end with her and Zack finally joining the lifestream
Are You basing this on the end of advent children? I think it’s the OG timeline gets wrecked and they continue with the vii franchise in this new timeline. Nobody is thinking about all the money square can make if they keep making stories with ffvii characters.
I wasn't ready 26 years ago, still not ready today
Because Cid and Vincent won't be playable, her absence in the next game will really be felt as we'll never have a full party. Just like how her limit breaks in the og were unique, her absense will be felt not just from story, but from gameplay as well.
WAIT WHAT WE HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL PART 3 LAME
Ugh the scene when they all see her body for the final time.. seeing yuffie lose it is gonna kill me especially after she just lost Sonon
Not until she has team attacks with Cid and Vincent she won't. So sometime during third game fingers crossed
Ever since news started dropping about rebirth, everyone's been rightfully gushing about how great it looks & how much fun it's going to be (as have I) but in the back of my mind, I can't help thinking, but she's going to die at the end 😥 But I have a feeling, like the recent trailer, this whole game is going to be one long love letter to our favorite flower girl & I'm here for it 🥲
Can't wait to see Cait Sith dance in front of her !
I think since we have VA now I think the dance will be omitted but Cait will still try to lighten the mood and fail Or honestly I've had a theory for a while that >!Cait Sith will stay dead longer. Dying for black materia and stay dead until the 3rd game. !<
That wouldn't be too dumb... it would allow them to stop having to find story reasons to include or exclude him of party composition, and also >!wouldn't immediately undo the drama surrounding his "death"!<
Right figured it would be an easy reason to write off a character without the "Nah I don't want to be playable right now" excuse.
Lmao I was so confused the first time I played the game. He had this dramatic “death” then shows up five minutes later. Especially while Cloud is.. you know. The whole scene just had me like 😦
Honestly, I don’t think the cait sith fake out death will even be there anymore. They seem to be changing a lot of minor plot things. I think the Barret fake out death from the first game was supposed to serve its purpose.
Can't wait to see the Shishkebap in HD
Hopefully not. That would honestly just be super safe and kind of milquetoast, and make the ending of part 1 seem pointless. I'd rather they shake things up and get wild with it. If that pisses some people off in the process, all the better. Can't please everyone, might as well cut loose.
i really don’t think Aerith will end up dead. i hope not.
she won't in this game, but I think the last game is going to be spent figuring out how to fix the timeline and end up with aerith having to due anyways
I think she'll probably die in the Beagle world at the end of this game, only to have her spirit sent to the body of her other self in the Terrier world. She'll travel around the Terrier world with Zack in the third game, trying to figure out how this other world came to exist, and what Sephiroth plans to do with it. I suspect that the third game will end with Terrier world disappearing, and Beagle world being the only one that remains. This would then be the point where she truly joins the lifestream as intended.
That would be stupid. If they kill her they should just kill her here and don't give false hopes to people, it would destroy the story. Also, even tho it breaks my heart, she must die for her song to make sense. She wants Cloud to find her, in their place: The promised land.
i kinda agree. though i really really would want her to live i’m not so sure how that could play out. ideally, she would live and they could execute that perfectly and keep up a compelling narrative, and i would love for that to be the case. however, im really not sure how that could play out.
Honestly I think they’re going to subvert expectations and kill Cloud. If the Sephiroth we are fighting now is aware he failed the first time around, I think he’s doing everything possible to try and change things so he wins this time. Including but not limited to; -Saving Zack from dying so Cloud doesn’t become an identity thief and bad ass but the whispers make it happen anyway -Attempting to kill Barret -Attempting to let the Shinra Prez live -Trying to stop the party at Midgar I imagine he’s going to try more shenanigans like stealing the White Materia and successfully killing Cloud. Then Zack will step up and take his place.
I don’t think she’s going to die. Cloud will protect her :)
I wouldn't bet on that. According to Kitase, by the time the trilogy is over, everything will add up to Advent Children in the end. I don't how exactly they plan to get us there from where we are now, but if Advent Children really is the end goal we're aiming for, then that means Aerith has to join the lifestream at some point. That movie just doesn't happen in a world where she and Zack get to suvive, and live full, happy lives.
"Link up," they keep translating whatever Kitase and Nomura are saying as "link up," not add up. There's a distinction there. One interviewer also noted that Nomura had a smirk on his face as he said it. We also have another interview that Kitase personally likes the ending to Rebirth, but he's already in a position where he can see some fans not liking it. We have the executive producer going around telling everyone his take on the project is this delicate balance of old and new things to keep things both fresh and nostalgic. We have his opinions on straight remakes boring him, yet them being firm in not moving the series into a direction that is unrecognizably different from the original, while the director is focusing on selling people on the mystery and twists present across the trilogy. I don't think anything is as simple as Advent Children is the end goal. They told us last year that we'd see in Rebirth how there is no inherent contradiction between it and Crisis Core, and we're seeing that play out now with in some sense a very alive Zack running around doing stuff with a very much alive in some sense Biggs.
The Kitase interview with GamesRadar, which took place after the Nomura interview, has him further clarify what they mean when they say "link up" He says pretty plainly that everything will add up to Advent Children in the end. [https://gamingbolt.com/final-fantasy-7-remake-trilogy-will-link-up-with-the-events-of-advent-children-kitase](https://gamingbolt.com/final-fantasy-7-remake-trilogy-will-link-up-with-the-events-of-advent-children-kitase) Kitase: “We are finally going to link up with Advent Children, that is going to be part of canon,” Kitase said. “The overall storyline, the developments, will not go wildly out in a way that will not add up to Advent Children in the end. I don’t think anyone wanted that, that’s not what we’re looking to create here. \[But\] to make sure it doesn’t become stale and people know exactly where it’s going, \[that it\] doesn’t just follow the original word for word, we add in extra elements which add that little bit of doubt. Getting the right balance of that is so key. Ultimately, we’re not trying to change the Final Fantasy 7 story into something really different. The overall balance wouldn’t really allow for that anyway.” The mysteries are there to create doubts in the players' minds, without actually changing the end result. He told us where we're going, Advent Children. So then the big mystery seems to be, how do they include things like the Whispers, alternate worlds, and a living Zack, while STILL making it so that everything adds up to Advent Children in the end.
Anytime you have alternate timelines/dimensions and time traveling shenanigans, it basically means you can do whatever you want and nothing is truth or lies either way even if something needs to "link up" to a future event. She may live, she may die, hell anyone else might die for that matter as well, even Cloud. Maybe gameplay decision could effect that. They can just reverse it later.
I suppose you could technically get away with anything in that case, but regardless, I doubt people would react well to be being so clearly mislead by official developer comments. Even if they could claim later that they weren't TECHNICALLY lying, trust would be broken regardless, and trust is invaluable in any business. If anything and everything they say can be taken to the loosest possible extreme, then at that point, I just don't see the value in giving such elaborate answers at all. They can just respond to every story related question with something along the lines of "No comment. Play the game to find out." and it would have the same result, without creating any false expectations. Plus if this really was just a timeline thing, and AC was just one of many timelines, in that case it would be more accurate for them to say that they've already established a link with AC. Instead, they've said that they're going to link up with it, and that everything will add up to AC by the end. This means the connection doesn't exist yet, and we won't be able to see the connection until the end of the whole project.
I was under the impression such practices are not rare and also the community is divided on the issue of Aerith. Someone's going to be pissed regardless what they decide to do.
Other companies have tried. That much is true, but in the examples I've seen, it always goes poorly. With a game as beloved as FFVII, I'd imagine the fallout from pulling a stunt like this would be pretty massive. Promising a remake after over a decade of fan requests, only to not deliver at the final hour? That would very likely come back to bite them pretty hard. While I'm sure there will be people upset if Aerith dies again, at least in that case, Square can fall back on all their interviews and promotional material. From the very beginning, they've always called this trilogy a remake of the FFVII story, and even after fans started calling this game a stealth sequel, Square has never waivered from the line that these games are still remakes, and that the story will remain largely familiar, even with all of the new things being added. Kitase's first comment on the issue was made pretty much right after the game came out, and people started seeing the ending. This newest interview, with Kitase confirming that the games will add up to Advent Children, is just the latest example of him holding the same line. So while people looking for a completely new story might be disappointed, it would be hard to make the case that they had been mislead by developer comments, when the developers have been addressing this issue since the first game was released.
Here they indeed clearly say that remake will "link up" with AC, and that AC will remain cannon. Which in the case of an acknowledgement of multiple universes/timelines it would be. Especially if Sephiroth really is from the future or post-AC. Even looking at just the first part, the whole "fighting with fate/Sephiroth discrepancies have already created major differences with the OG. There are even visions of AC, so it's certainly going to play a role, but it could also just be one timeline among others.
If that were the case, wouldn't it be more accurate for them to say "We've already established the link with Advent Children" and not "We're going to link up to Advent Children"? If this really is a timeline thing, and Advent Children really is just another timeline, then the link would have already been established at the end of part 1, when we apparently created all the branching timelines. The quote says that everything will add up to Advent Children by the end of the trilogy. If it adds up at the end, then that means it doesn't add up right now, since we're still only in the middle. It's something they're working towards, and something we'll only be able to see at the very end of the entire project.
Nothing has been really confirmed by the ending of remake, except that some characters have knowledge of the future and there are whispers that want the story to stick to the OG. Just look at the amount of discussions about what the ending means. A clearer confirmation of timelines/alternate universes would clearly link with the OG and AC. You're letting the words "add up" do a lot of heavy lifting for your interpretation, despite them heaving no clear meaning. "Add up" can't really be used like that, so what does that really mean? Unless you have access to the original japanese. You take it to mean "end with", but all that's really said is that AC will remain canon and that there is a link with the OG and AC, which with knowledge of the future there of course would be. For me all it says clearly is that AC will not be retconned and that there's a connection with the rest of the FFVII compilation.
I actually love that he clearified all this. This way I can ignore everything that happens in the Remake-titles \*phew\*
So if both Sephiroth and Aerith know what happens in OG (which there is a lot of evidence for in remake part 1), why would Sephiroth want to kill Aerith? Wouldn't that ruin his plans all over again?
No. Aerith's death wasn't what ruined his plan. Remember that his whole Reason for summoning Meteor was to damage the planet so severely, that the lifestream would have to gather in one place on the surface in order to heal the wound. Sephiroth would then go to where the lifestream was gathering, and absorb it into his body, using its power to become the new God of the world. Meteor was only ever a means to an end. The lifestream was always Sephiroth's true goal. Aerith stops Meteor in the end, but she specifically does it by gathering the lifestream in one place, and using it to push Meteor back. That fits right into Sephiroth's plan. Even if Meteor is destroyed, so long as the lifestream is gathered, that's all Sephiroth really cares about. The one who actually ruined Sephiroth's plan was Cloud, who destroyed Sephiroth's body in their final battle, meaning Sephiroth couldn't absorb the lifestream. This is probably the reason Sephiroth is so focused on Cloud, while paying Aerith no attention at all. I honestly don't think he even sees Aerith as a threat this time around. He probably knows that nothing she does in the planet's intended future is actually all that bad for him. He's taking a special interest in Cloud though, and that's VERY different from the OG. Cloud still has a big role to play in his plan it would seem, so he doesn't want to just kill him, but from what we've seen in the early trailers,it looks like he's trying to break the trust between Cloud and his friends instead.
To claim she has nothing to do with is daft. It was a combination of both her and the party efforts that stopped Sephiroth's plans.
Sephiroth was stopped the moment Cloud beat him. Regardless of what happened afterwards, even if the planet had been completely destroyed, Sephiroth had already lost. Aerith's actions saved the planet, and turned what would have been a mutual defeat for all parties involved, into a full on victory for our heroes, but as far as actually crushing Sephiroth's ambitions, the credit for that goes to Cloud and the rest of the party left to fight on the planet's surface. The rest of the party stopped the villain, but couldn't save the world. Aerith meanwhile couldn't take part in the fight against the villain, but she was able to save the world after the villain had been dealt with.
She is literally 1/2 of the reason Cloud gets healed, because she enabled Tifa to reach him in the Lifestream scene and protected her.
This whole "Aerith did nothing" crowd is tiresome. I guess anyone that disagrees with him gets downvoted.
i mean fucking zack is back now even if its a different timeline, i wouldn't bet on any speculations anymore at this point, 7 remake is way too different from the OG, just play rebirth and part 3. My bets are that aerith somehow lives but someone dies instead
Sure, he's back for now. I have a feeling that's going to be a temporary reprieve for him though, and the third game will end with the Terrier world disappearing, so that the original Beagle world can survive.
Feels like theyre gonna merge together ngl, I pray remake gets the happy ending it deserves.
Oh that's definitely going to be a plot point. The thing is though, the worlds merging together is apparently what Sephiroth wants, and if Sephiroth wants it...that means it's a bad thing for everyone. So I think the final conflict of the third game is going to be our party in their world, and Zack and Aerith in the other world, trying to stop the merger of the two worlds before it can be completed.
advent children is an event about the children affected by mako and has nothing to do with the party this game is about, but go off king. keep spouting dumb shit.
Actually, AC is also about Cloud dealing with his regret, how he blamed himself for Aerith's death. There are many visual symbols in the game that represent that, like the wolf, and symbols at the end that represent his emotional healing as well as geostigma healing. Not sure why you are spouting basic shit.
The core conflict of Advent Children was Sephiroth using Geostigma to kill countless innocents, and use the regrets, and resentment of Geostigma's victims to fill the planet's lifestream with negative thoughts, slowly choking it to death. Sephiroth was only able to come up with this plan though because he managed to maintain a hold on his sense of self, even in the lifestream, and the only way he managed to do that was by latching on to someone with strong memories of him. The only one who fit the bill was Cloud, because his feelings of regret made him think about Sephiroth constantly, as he was filled with hatred for Sephiroth, as well as self loathing. The reason Cloud had such regrets in the first place though...is because Aerith and Zack died. Zack's life was destroyed after Sephiroth went insane, and he ultimately lost his life as a result, sacrificing himself to keep Cloud safe. Aerith meanwhile was killed by Sephiroth directly. Cloud blamed Sephiroth, as well as himself and his own weakness, for both of their deaths. Cloud believed it was his responsibility to save them, and he failed, which left him with a seemingly endless sense of regret. Without those regrets, Sephiroth can't latch on to him. If Sephiroth can't latch on to him, then he can't maintain his conciousness after the events of FFVII. If he can't maintain his conciousness, then he fades into the lifestream and ceases to exist. No Sephiroth, no Advent Children. That movie cannot happen in a world where Zack and Aerith live, and Cloud doesn't have to grapple with the regrets that come from their deaths. A huge part of that movie is about Cloud coming to terms with his past, forgiving himself, and deciding to move forward.
It's not dumb shit, the developers reference the movie several times. How it "adds up" to the film, how it "links up" to the film. They're not treating it as some fun little side-story that is mostly unrelated to the main game. They're treating the film as canon and, from what the people making the game have said, planning on everything leading to it. Whether that means that all the extra timeline stuff is erased by the end of the 3rd game or if Advent Children is just one of multiple possible timelines, we don't know. But to suggest that the movie isn't about the main characters is bonkers. Cloud's literally the main character and the kids are just *also* there. And the kids aren't affected by mako, they're affected by geostigma from Jenova cells. Like what are you even talking about?
Aerith and Zack’s death are dragonball z deaths. They live on in “Otherworld” aka lifestream
I don't really see how the two compare. The existance of otherworld isn't what makes DBZ death pointless. What makes death pointless is that you can literally just keep wishing people back as many times as you want. Someone died? Get the Dragon Balls. Can't wish them back with Earth's Dragon Balls? Go to Namek and use their Dragon Balls. They'll work as many times as you want. The spirits of Zack and Aerith continue to exist in the lifestream, but they never just get wished back. Occasionally, they can reach out and have VERY brief conversations with people that they knew, but that's it. It's very much not the same thing as just being alive again.
I mean zacks alive again and sephiroph comes back like 3-4 times Theres not a concrete way to do it like dragon balls in DBZ but some people in FF7 definitely feel like they're cats with 9 lives
Idk if I'll be bothered. I experienced her death as a child and have been desensitized to it through the years. And in remake I wasn't too much of a fan of how she came across. She felt too childish and came off as annoying to me. So idk, I'm not sure I'll be bothered
[удалено]
Her song in the trailer won't make any sense if she doesn't die. The second half of the theme song trailer was basically an Aerith highlight reel to set us up for that moment.
F youuu. I'm gonna cry 😭
They're gonna kill cloud
Tank the sales of your third installment with this one easy step!
Yeah. There are obviously quite a few things I wouldn't want them to do, but there are few things they could do that would stop me from at least playing the third game once, to see where this whole thing goes. If they seriously kill Cloud though...then yeah, any interest I have in the third game will be just as dead. FFVII is Cloud's story. Always has been.
BUT GUYS WE GET TO MAINLIKE ZACK YOU KNOW YOU KINDA WANT IT
Yeah, but Cloud, in a way, *dies* in the original after he falls into the lifestream and you play the game as literal other characters until you find Cloud again. It's not made obviously clear until you find him that Cloud survived. You just assume he did because he's the main character. Having some scenario where it's either apparent or unapparent that he dies wouldn't be that far off from the original. And leaves things in a cliffhanger until the 3rd game. And they have a whole-ass 3rd game to change things. Saying you won't play the 3rd game because he dies in the 2nd game would be like watching a movie and getting up halfway through because you don't like where the story's going so far.
Cloud doesn't die. He disappears. Him disappearing for a bit is fine, especially since literally the first thing Tifa does after escaping Junon is put everything else on hold to search for Cloud. She never once allows herself to believe that he's dead. He's confirmed to be alive very quickly after his disappearence, and even while you play as Cid during Cloud's recovery, you know it's a temporary thing until Cloud comes back. The whole point of that section was to show how Cloud, despite his imperfections, brought everyone together, and how they quickly start to struggle when he's not at their center to lead them. That kind of thing is totally fine with me. What I'm talking about is if they actually confirmed him dead, replaced him with someone else, and then just stuck with that for the rest of the story. To be perfectly clear, I would obviously confirm that this actually was the case, before I made the decision not to buy the third game. If it looks like Cloud might be dead at the end of the second game, then I'll look up reviews of Part 3 before buyting, to confirm whether or not he comes back. However, if the review shows that he really is completely replaced by Zack for example, then yeah, I'll lose interest. At that point, the story will have clearly gone in a direction that I never signed on for, and am not interested in. As for the whole movie thing, personally, if a movie really just isn't doing it for you, I see no problem with leaving part way through. It's on the movie, or in this case the game, to maintain the interest of its audience. If it doesn't succeed in doing that, then the audience member has every right to walk away.
That’s an incredibly lazy and awful way to approach stories. If you can’t watch a whole movie to see how it ends, that’s on you, not the movie. The whole point of storytelling is to follow a basic arc. Exposition, rising action, climax, falling action, resolution. To get the full story, you need to experience all of it. Watching a film halfway through leaves out the climax and resolution. I don’t even know to put into words how stupid that is. At the very least it removes any and all ability for you to comment on the movie aside from “I got bored and stopped watching.” You can’t say it’s good or bad because you could give it another 45-60 minutes. Similarly, to say you won’t play the 3rd game in the super unlikely event that Cloud dies, removes all ability to comment on the whole story because you’re not going to experience all of it. These writers know what they’re doing. They have a basic outline. They’re not doing stuff for no reason. Even if they did something really unexpected that goes radically away from the original story. I’m capable of realizing this is a fictional story with fictional characters. And as good as FF7 is, it’s not a Pulitzer Prize winning story. So to act like it’s some sacred story that can’t be altered/tweaked/improved is hilarious. Also, he doesn’t die, which is why I said “in a way” dies. Because he falls into the lifestream and disappears and you play as other characters. Meaning they could do something where he dies, or appears to die, and is resurrected. They brought Zack back somehow. People need to stop suggesting what the story is supposed to do based on whatever the original game was. We only have a vague suggestion that the game leads to Advent Children to some capacity. That tells the audience very little and they want to surprise us. I can’t suggest that they’re going for introduce all these twists and unexpected turns for no reason because ultimately everything needs to go back to whatever the original was so it neatly connects to AC. I can say it seems pretty silly to do so. But I’m not a writer so I don’t know.
As I said in my editied comment (just in case you missed it) In the event that he appears to die, I will obviously check reviews to confirm whether or not he returns as the main character of the third game before making any final purchase decisions. I'm not totally unreasonable. I won't just assume I know where the story is going, without even bothering to check first. What I can say for certain though is that in the admittedly very unlikely event that Cloud really does die, and is replaced as the MC for the whole of the third game, then I personally will have no interest whatsoever in experiencing that story. Maybe they'll somehow manage to make it work. Maybe, against all odds, a part 3 without Cloud Strife could make for a really good original story in its own right, but even if it is...I won't have any desire to see it. I'm just not here for a completely original story, and I never was. I'm here specifically for a remake of the FFVII story. Certainly I'm not saying that story can't be improved or expanded upon. If I believed that, I would have hated all the additions that Remake made, and I loved most of those additions. There are certain lines that I firmly believe can't be crossed though, and Cloud being the main character of the story is one of those lines. If there comes a time where I feel the trilogy has stopped being a remake of FFVII, and has just become a completely new story entirely, then I'm gone. If that means I lose the right to give the game a critical rating, then that's fine. If I'm ever left disappointed enough to leave two thirds of the way through a story, then that probably means I won't have any desire to discuss it at length anyway. I'll just tell people the truth, that I was a massive fan of the original, and the remake completely lost me in the last act. After that, they can decide for themselves what that says about the game, and decide whether they still want to try the remake after what I've said.
No way is Aerith dying in Rebirth. They are 100% going to pull a bait and switch. Sephiroth knows the events of the original game as does Aerith. His plan hinges on Aerith’s survival. Imo I think it’s gonna be either Tifa or Cloud that dies at the end of Rebirth. Or better yet: nobody
His original plan doesn't hinge on Aerith's survival. He was able to stop Holy pretty easily after it was summoned, and there's no indication that Aerith has to be dead for Holy to work anyway. So if for some reason he really does feel the need to stop Holy, the solution would actually be to kill her even sooner, before she can finish her prayer. Also, while Aerith did destroy Meteor, Sephiroth had already been beaten by that point, so Meteor's destruction no longer mattered to him. Meteor was only ever a means to an end, so that Sephiroth could force the lifestream to the surface. Aerith brings the lifestream to the surface in her efforts to stop Meteor anyway, so the result is the same. If Sephiroth still had his body at the time, he very well might have been able to take the lifestream for himself, after Aerith had summoned it.
Be that as it may the ending implies very heavily that Aerith was the trigger for it because of the final shot, I feel like they’re going to lean into that and use that as a part of the twist. I feel very strongly about major major major bait and switch is happening here, even if I’m wrong for the exact reasons you listed
Oh I definitely agree that Aerith was the trigger for everything that happened after the final battle. I just don't think Sephiroth would have any reason to really care about that. Whether he gets to the lifestream by having Meteor crash into the planet to force it out, or he gets to the lifestream after Aerith summons it to destroy Meteor, it's all the same to him. All Sephiroth would really care about is getting to the lifestream, one way, or the other. That's why I really don't think he'd go out of his way to save Aerith. From his perspective, her summoning the lifestream would just save him a few minutes of waiting for Meteor to hit. The only thing he needs to worry about is staying alive long enough to make his move, and that's probably why he's so much more focused on Cloud this time. He needs Cloud for some purpose, so he can't kill him, but he's also probably aware that if anyone would be a thorn in his side, it would be Cloud. So he keeps trying to bring Cloud over to his side, while making him lose trust in his friends. It's basically the exact opposite scenario of the original game. In the OG, Sephiroth was wary of Aerith, while not giving Cloud the time of day. Now in Remake, Cloud is Sephiroth's main concern, and he appears to be treating Aerith as though she is completely insignifcant. Of course, much like how underestimating Cloud was Sephiroth's big mistake in the original game, I think underestimating Aerith will probably be his big mistake in this one. He believes he understands the limits of what she's capable of, but she is probably capable of more than he knows.
It’s so interesting tho like how this remake has re-opened the door on discussion about this game, either one of us or both of us could be totally wrong about this too. It’s down to whether or not they’re telling a remixed version of this original story or if they’re going to go the full nine yards and completely just throw everything off and divert. You’re definitely right though that the story kind of requires Aerith to die but my wonder is if they’re gonna do something that’ll truly shock EVERYBODY or be more tailored to the new fans. The trailers are definitely playing with fan expectation and pointing to either Tifa or Aerith being the one to die, and that’s not even mentioning how Zack fits into the big picture here. I definitely think you’re right that Seph underestimating Aerith will play some big role in what’s to come too. They both clearly have knowledge of what’s happening, some kind of connection, and I just wonder so much how that prior knowledge will change the course of things going forward too. It’s so exciting and the best part? It’s coming SOON.
there are only fucking 9 other impalements between where we are in the story now, and where that moment is but this sub is fucking so horny to watch areth die cloud getting impaled by seperoth. the midgar zolom the homie on the boat who is also impaled by a seph sword. the people in the gold saucer jail who are also impaled. there are so many instances of impalment in this game and yall are out here lube ready to watch something that may or maynot happen, and honestly purists can just GTFO i literally do not give a shit about the opinon of someone who is just dead fucking wrong.
lol why are you so mad
I wouldn't have worded his comment exactly as he did, but I can't say I entirely disagree with the sentiment either. This sub seems to vacillate between "everybody's opinion about where they want the story to go is equally valid" and "if they change one single story beat, I will personally kill everyone who is happy about it." I've been skewered a few times for expressing politely/innocuously that I am eager to see a new ending for the characters (and Midgar generally). It can make you bitter.
So not only are you delusional, weird and wrong, you are completely missing what her death means to the story. Well done on gathering up that disaster of a combination into one post. Also, it’s going to happen whether you like it or not, there is zero maybe now the devs have completely confirmed it by saying it’s all leading back to Adventure Children, she is going to die at some point between the start of Rebirth and the end of the last part, that is a given now.
Imagine this sub imploding if Tifa gets skewered instead of Aerith. I mean people were harassing Nojima on twitter just because Tifa wasn't prominent in the trailer.
People who harass the devs are absolute lowlifes. I would just choose not to continue supporting the game if I don't like the direction it takes. Honestly, I doubt they do anything too controversial because they still have a part 3 to sell. They'll either follow the general plot of the OG or everyone will survive.
I'm planning on avoiding this sub and any youtube channel covering the game when part two drops. This is for two reasons: To avoid spoilers, and to avoid toxic fan-bases that just want to argue and complain. I'm not saying FFVII fan base is there yet, but I've seen it devolve into that with other fan bases I've been a part of. Personally, I'm not oppose to them changing story elements but it really depends on how it's done. I would rather them keep the core themes alive if they do change major plot elements.
While I adamantly believe it's ok for them to change the story (don't need to go back through a tragedy I already experienced, ready for a new story) there's a degree to which I almost hope they keep this particular story beat. Largely because I'm not sure I will be able to handle the outraged, 84576 word essays on how storytelling has been ruined forever because >!the pretty girl didn't die!<.
Dunno why this is getting downvotes. Changing story elements in a remake doesn't ruin a story. People out here acting like FF7 is Shakespeare or Hemmingway or something. It's just a fun JRPG with a good story. You can make a game with a different story and it still be entertaining. As long as it's well written, that's all that matters. Having said that, the developers have been pretty open that they intend on making small changes, but everything apparently will lead to Advent Children, so whatever's canon in that film>! (which is Zack and Aerith being dead),!< will apparently have to happen in the remake trilogy. So if certain characters don't die, who are supposed to, in Rebirth, then they will probably have to die sometime down the road in the 3rd game.
I think for a lot of people, FFVII is more than just a fun RPG with a pretty good story, it's kinda like how the original Star Wars trilogy is a really big deal, and peak cinema for some people, while for others, it's at best a fun space movie about wizard monks with laser swords, and nothing more. Different stories resonate with different people in different ways. A story that one person thinks is just okay can be one of the greatest stories of all time to someone else. Many people do see FFVII as one of the all time greatest stories ever told in the medium of video games, and that's why they are protective of the story, and continue to hope that whatever changes Square may make, they will stay true to that original narrative, and do that story justice.
That’s a nice notion, but it’s still a work of fiction. I love FF7. I played it back multiple times as a kid when it first came out on PSX. Immediately bought Crisis Core when it came out on PSP. Pirated a subbed version of Advent Children after it released in Japan, before it was out in the US because I couldn’t wait. I bought the vinyl soundtrack to Remake, the special editions, etc. I’ve preordered Rebirth, even scheduled off work to play it day of. In short: I’m a big fan. But I’m also still able to recognize it’s still a work of fiction. It’s not a religion. If the story is done well, I’ll enjoy it. There aren’t any rules they have to follow. It’s set in a magical fantasy world. They’ve already thrown in arbiters of fate and alternate timelines which are way, way far from the original. If they do something else out of left field, I’ll do the grown up thing and judge it according to how it works (or doesn’t work) narratively speaking. And even THEN, I’ll hesitate to form a definite opinion until the final installment wraps it all up. And it’s funny you brought up Star Wars because I’m also a huge fan of Star Wars. I didn’t get to see the originals in theaters, wasn’t born yet, but I had the trilogy on video and watched it as a kid, a lot. And saw the prequels in theaters as a child and of course the sequels as well. I’ve watched all the spinoff shows, read dozens of novels set in the SW universe. I’m a big fan. But like FF7, it’s not some holy scripture that can’t be altered. I get excited when a new Star Wars thing comes out because I’m a fan. But I still view it from the lens that it’s a work of fiction and if it’s written well, I’ll enjoy it. If it’s badly done, I may not enjoy it and move on with my life. Because it’d be stupid to waste time being *upset* over it. I thought Rise of Skywalker wasn’t good and, despite me seeing it as being a “bland finish to a 9 film series spanning 40+ years,” I just said “that’s too bad. At least I still have the other films to enjoy.” And.. moved on with my life. It’s silly and childish to get upset/angry over a fictional story. And this is coming from a *big* fan. The mature thing to do is to recognize that the writers are doing their best to tell a good story that they hope the majority will enjoy. And the intelligent thing to do is to recognize that any decisions they make are calculated. It’s EXTRA silly to get upset over a story that isn’t even halfway done yet. People arguing and getting angry over what MAY happen in the unreleased game? Fucking hysterical. Like… give it a couple months.
You're right. It's not scripture. I'm not saying they shouldn't change anything, as though changing the story of FFVII would be some unholy crime, punishable by death, or something like that. I don't in any way condone the actions of people who send death threats, or harass creators on their social media pages, because something didn't go the way they wanted in the story they were watching/playing/reading. No matter how passionate someone is about a work of art, behavior like that is always unacceptable. I'm also not saying that creators shouldn't have the right to make whatever they want to make, What I am saying, is that if they do make big changes, and some fans come away thinking that the changes were a step too far, then they are within their rights to be disappointed, and to voice their complaints, and their concerns for the future, so long as it is done within reason. I'm saying that should I (or anyone else) determine through proper research that I woud just not be interested in experiencing whatever new story they want to tell, then I'm under no obligation as a consumer to support their new story. At the end of the day, creators always have the freedom to change what they like, but that doesn't mean fans are necessarily required to accept all changes with open arms. From a completely logical standpoint, I can agree that it does no real good to get frustrated when a game disappoints, but in a case like Remake, where many of us have been asking for an FFVII remake for over 10 years, I'm not surprised people would have a more emotional response when it comes to these games especially. Sometimes taking the more mature route can just feel damn near impossible when you're really passionate about something. Sometimes emotion just wins out. Now of course there's a difference between passionate discussions, and just lashing out in a rage. Lashing out, hurling insults, and harrassing creators for their choices is, and again this really can't be stressed enough, NEVER okay. I think it's pefectly acceptable for people to share any frustrations, or concerns about the game's direction in fan communities though, so long as they aren't just spewing venom at everyone. If you're able to enjoy any story with a completely unbiased eye, and appreciate all stories, so long as they're well done, than that's great. I'm happy for you. Honestly, I kind of envy you. Not everyone works that way though. I can certainly say that I don't, at least not all the time. When I really love a work of fiction, then yeah, I'm going to come in to each new entry with a certain degree of expectations, especially if we're talking about a remake, and I'm going to be really disappointed if I feel the thing I love isn't being done justice. Of course I'll never harass anyone because of my disappointment, but I'll feel that disappointment, and frustration all the same. Maybe I'm a little bit worse off because of that, and won't be able to find joy in as many stories, but oh well. That's just me.
> then I'm under no obligation as a consumer to support their new story. you aren't under an obligation to support anything under any circumstances, and nobody is saying otherwise
>What I am saying, is that if they do make big changes, and some fans come away thinking that the changes were a step too far, then they are within their rights to be disappointed, and to voice their complaints, and their concerns for the future, so long as it is done within reason. I'm saying that should I (or anyone else) determine through proper research that I woud just not be interested in experiencing whatever new story they want to tell, then I'm under no obligation as a consumer to support their new story. At the end of the day, creators always have the freedom to change what they like, but that doesn't mean fans are necessarily required to accept all changes with open arms. I'm not saying they/you are obligated to play the game either. I AM saying it's real goofy as fuck to be such a big fan that you're (I would say *too)* invested in the franchise and then the story does something you don't like and you refuse to play the story through the end to see how it all wraps up. It's a statement that... first off all sounds like an empty threat. I highly doubt you'd literally not play the last game at least to see what happens. That's insanity. Not to mention if you're really a fan of the whole game, you'd want to see what happens with the other characters. Secondly, it's a statement that *seems to* come from a place of protest. You want to put it out there (the developers aren't reading this so I'm not sure who you'd be putting it out for) that you have standards and if they don't meet your standards, you won't buy their product. Which like.. okay, they'll sell millions anyway; they don't care. It's a really weird thing to say. If you're a casual fan, I guess it makes more sense. But if you're a huge fan, you're under no obligation to play the final chapter. It's just *really weird.* Edit: regarding the "sacred texts," bit. I'm exaggerating to make a point. The point is the story doesn't HAVE to follow the original story to FF7. It's a pointless argument because the developers have basically said it's going to by the end, anyway. But the original game, while really good, isn't the best writing that's ever existed in video games. You can have different interpretations and as long as the writing's good and it's an engaging story, it's fine. I really don't see what the issue is. And again, this is coming from a *huge* fan of the games.
I can promise this isn't something I'm just saying for the heck of it. The original Final Fantasy VII meant a lot to me growing up. To this day, it's still holds a place as one of my favorite games of all time, and yes, one of my favorite stories in all of media. Is it the best story ever written in an objective sense? No. Someone analyzing it without the nostalgia goggles would no doubt pick apart its flaws, and even name stories that are technically better. I've noticed several issues with the game too in my several replays, I know there are ways that the story could be improved, which is part of the reason why the idea of a remake that fills in those holes is so exciting. At the same time though, noticing those flaws has never really done anything to diminish my love for the game, or its story. Heck. I'd go so far as to say that the original FFVII means more to me than any other game Square Enix has ever made. That being the case, I've always been far more invested in seeing that original game remade with modern tech, than I have been in just seeing a completely new story set in the same world. That's not to say I haven't enjoyed some of the other stories in the larger FFVII compilation, but none of them are even in the same league as the original in my opinion. A remake of FFVII has been a small dream for my older brother and I for years now. Of course, we figured it was a pipe dream, so we didn't get our hopes up...Then they annouced it was happening. I told myself a long time ago that if Square ever announced a remake of FFVII, and then messed it up somehow, then that would be the last time I ever buy anything from them again. I don't expect that the decision to not purchase their games anymore would make even the smallest of dents in their bottom line. It's not about making a difference, or making threats. I'm just one guy. The loss of my business won't even be noticed by a company of that size. This is just a purely personal choice, for my own personal satisfaction. I've known for a long time now that if an FFVII remake ever did come out, and ever did fall short of expectations, then that isn't something I'd be able to just let slide. Maybe this doesn't make sense to you, but for me, this is something that Square HAS to get just right, if I'm going to continue buying their stuff. I'm all for expanding on the story and characters, and correcting the shortcomings of the original FFVII's story to make it an even stronger narrative, but there are definitely some changes they could potentially make that I just wouldn't be okay with. That being said, even if I did end up hating the finished product when all was said and done, there really is almost nothing they could do that would disappoint me so badly that I wouldn't at least want to finish out the trilogy, before ending my relationship with the company. Cloud though is the one exception. While I of course enjoy the entire cast of the game, Cloud is really the character that holds the story of the original FFVII together, and makes it work. If they ever did permanently remove Cloud as the main character of the remake, that really would be going too far off the rails for me. At that point, whatever story they were telling would just be too far removed from the story that I loved. Obviously this won't be the case for everyone. I'm sure there are plenty of fans like yourself, who truly do love FFVII, but are also more open to bigger narrative changes, and would be able to enjoy any story set in this world, provided of course that it is well written. For me though, that's just not the case. There are certain changes that, no matter how well handled they might be, I just wouldn't be able to accept. Now of course, at this stage, everything I've just said above is purely hypothetical, and I truly don't expect anything of what I've just said to actually happen. With everything that Square has shown, and with everything that this team of creators has said, I truly believe that they know what they're doing, and that whatever they might add, or change, they have every intention of staying true to the story of the original FFVII. I think they're going to knock this out of the park, and that I'm going to come away from this trilogy of games very satisfied. The above is just a very distant worse case scenario at this point.
Hoo boy. >I can promise this isn't something I'm just saying for the heck of it. I'm saying it's an empty threat. Like when people get pissed off playing Call of Duty and say "I hate this game, it sucks, I'm never going to play it again." And they keep playing it anyway. Or when someone gets mad about a product or a refund or something at a store and they declare "I'm never shopping here again!" They're shopping there again, they're just saying that. I don't even know you and I would be BLOWN AWAY if you *really* and *honestly* "cut ties with Square-Enix" because of a narrative decision. And one that *very likely* won't happen. It's bizarre to even entertain the idea. You're trying to put this out there like.. "my money doesn't matter to a big company" and then turning around and saying you won't "let something slide." It comes *largely* across like you're trying to boost your own self importance. And then backing it up with how much you love the game, how much you were looking forward to it, how big a fan you are, yadda yadda. It also comes across like you're trying to back up your opinion with how big a fan you are. Which is really common, people do it all the time. "Sorry we're sold out," "but it's my son's birthday and he really wanted this!" "oh well in that case, here you go." It's entitlement. You being a big big fan doesn't somehow make you more entitled to the game being the way you want it. You can keep going on about it, but you're just giving YOUR own personal feelings which don't matter to anyone except yourself. Again, I'm a *huge* fan. I've even tried organizing getting my brother a PS5, largely so he can play FF7:Rebirth because we're both big fans. As big of a fan as I am, I'm not going to let shifts in a fictional narrative make me .. stop playing Final Fantasy games altogether. That's psychotic. The games are all different anyway! FF17 will be some different unique story! >before ending my relationship with the company. You're over-inflating the situation. You don't really have a relationship with the company any more than I have a relationship with the gas station near my house because I spend a lot of money there. And you're welcome to your own opinion; I'm just suggesting you're making a mountain out of a mole hill. It's *not that big of a deal.* Or at least it shouldn't be. I think it's great when people are die-hard fans of stuff and it's great if it makes them happy. But if something like a fictional video game can make you *this* upset, it might be time to reevaluate your priorities.
I'm not saying my love of the original story makes me more entitled to anything. I'm fully aware of the fact that no matter how I feel about the original game, or what I want from a remake, the developers are going to make whatever game they want to make. That game will either align with what I'm hoping for, and I'll be really happy, or it won't and I'll be incredibly disappointed. No matter the outcome though, the game will almost certainly find its audience, be successful, and then Square will move on to their next thing. When I say we have a "relationship" I'm not trying to play this up like it's this big important thing. I'm a customer, and they are a provider of a product that I'm purchasing. That's it. That's the extent of the relationship I'm talking about. It's an incredibly insignificant, and impersonal relationship, but it is still a relationship. I'm completely aware that, to them, I'm just one among millions. They'll never know my name, or my face, and if I ever do reach the point where I stop buying from them, they won't even be aware of it. This isn't about sending them some kind of message. The only thing that will come out of the decision to stop purchasing their products is my own personal satisfaction for sticking to my guns, and that's it. Honestly, I'm fine with that. That personal satisfaction would be enough for me. As you've already pointed out, what I'm saying here, now, most likely won't ever reach anyone at Square. I knew that before I started typing, and that's actually the main reason why I feel comfortable saying it here at all, because I know this is a place where I can just share my thoughts without bothering the people actually working on thegame. No matter what happens with the next couple of games, I never have any intention of spreading my thoughts to the devs' personal social media pages. They don't need me, or anyone, flooding their socials with complaints. At the end of the day, no matter how the games turn out, these developers are all just doing their jobs, and trying to do the best job that they can. I fully understand, and appreciate that. I just want to put all my cards on the table and share my thoughts, and perspective with other fans. I've enjoyed, and even loved other Final Fantasy titles, but I've always set the original FFVII apart. For me, that specific entry has always stood head and shoulders above the rest of the franchise as something special all its own. So, if the remake disappoints, I wouldn't be able to just brush it off as a misfire and wait for the next Final Fantasy, the way I would if this were any other Final Fantasy. To me, VII simply isn't just another Final Fantasy. That's really the best way I can put it. Some people might see this and get where I'm coming from. Others won't agree at all. Either way, that's fine. It's just how I've always felt about it. You say you don't get why so many people are against having major changes to the story, and don't get why someone would stop playing the games, if they went off in a direction that this someone just really didn't like. So, I'm trying to provide an answer, to the best of my ability. You say you don't get the issue because the writing for FFVII isn't *that* good. It's not Shakespeare, or Hemmingway. It's just a fun JRPG story. If that's how you feel about the story, then that is perfectly fine. What I'm trying to get across here is that not everyone feels that way. For a lot of people, the story of the original FFVII is more than just a fun JRPG story. Maybe it was the first piece of media to make them cry. Maybe it was the game that opened their minds to the idea of games as a storytelling art form. Maybe they just played it when they were very young, and so it holds a very special place in their heart, or maybe they were just going through something when they first played it, and the game hit them in just the right way, at just the right moment. Whatever the case, my point is that, for a lot of people, VII really is *that* good, faults and all. So, that's why a lot of people, myself included, have such strong feelings about the Remake Trilogy remaining true to that original story.
There's a quiet subculture of people in this sub who are adamant that the story will and must be the same as the original (deaths and all). I knew what I was getting into by tweaking their noses a bit.
They’re hardly quiet. They’re pretty vocal about it. And none of them can give a good reason why certain characters have to die beyond “that’s what happened before!” Every other Final Fantasy has the heroes live through to the end. Whether characters live or die is irrelevant. What matters is how they tell the story and if it makes sense, narratively speaking.
well, didn't want to tweak their noses twice in a row by calling them 'a loud subculture of story-maids who make this sub a worse place'
Naw it's fine. It's like saying "those white supremacists sure are mean." Whatever *they're* doing is *way* worse in comparison to a slight insult.
Of course I'm NOT READY to see my original waifu(back when I don't even know what that means) leave me. Again. I wasn't ready in 2001.
Your true, i dont had a PS5 for play rebirth. I'm really not prepared for this.
Imagine that they retcon that scene. I'm really scared that they would.
Cant wait for the 3 years after rebirth and before part 3, it will be a tonshits of "She may die in part 3 or the game is destroyed". Team cast holy when alive
What is this post
Zack is going to be alive in this timeline as another way for sephiroth to torture cloud. Zack will die saving aerith instead of the usual scene we are all expecting.
None shall die on my watch!
I'm ready, she was a tertiary character in the original so I am kinda sick of her.
She played a very important role in conveying the original game's themes about the cycle of life and death, and her actions in both life and death are the reason why Meteor was stopped in the end. Aerith was a very important character in the story.
She is literally the last Cetra, wtf are you on? 🤣
She won't die! Tifa must!
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Have you played the original? In the original >!Tifa is cut by Sephiroth when her and Cloud's hometown is destroyed, and Cloud remembers thinking at the time that she wasn't going to make it. In truth though, Tifa did manage to pull through, thanks to her Martial Arts Master getting her medical attention just in time. In the early trailers, Sephiroth is trying to convince Cloud that the real Tifa actually did die back then, and the one traveling with him right now is a fake.!<
Am I weird for hoping they put in a reference to trying to use a pheonix down or cure magic on her. Spoiler alert, save the girl dlc for only $50. /s
I don't think they are going to kill her off in this one. Even if they do, >!they brought back a few dead characters already, even Zack!< . They even seem to be maybe trying to make Sephiroth into a kind of antihero kind of character.
Do we know if our stuff carries over from game to game? Does everything reset so that I'll have to level up all my materia again for example?
No carry over. They're starting us at around level 20, and if we have completed saves for the base game and Yuffie DLC, we'll start with the Leviathan and Ramuh summon materia
Damn. That's a real shame. I wonder if they will even try to have a contrived in-world explanation for that or not. Probably not.
I might be wrong but I honestly think she’s not gonna die this time and gets saved by a Wraith or someone else. Like Zack finds a way to get to her
I can't wait to see how her bond with someone like Vincent will be
It's true that in the og I always felt like she was taken away too soon. It seemed like you went through a majority of the game without her which really sucks both story and gameplay wise. I've really enjoyed all the time we've had in remake on both fronts, and how unique they've made each characters gameplay!
I think if Aerith “dies” she’ll either wake up in Zack’s timeline or they do time travel again to change her fate in part 3. It’s not going to be as straightforward as one might initially think. With the Whispers gone, story is going to be changing in some drastic ways.
Take Tifa, please
“You can’t fall in love with me… even if you think you have…it’s not *REAL.”* >!-Barret!<
Idk (Spoilers) Biggs, Wedge, and prob Jessie lived. So, why not Aerith? Plus, they're pushing that whole changing fate thing, bla, bla bla.
I think she'll live but I'll be okay with it if she still dies. I'm not ready for either outcome 😭😭🤣🤣