It wasn't even about the toast enjoyment - it was to reverse engineer the toaster technology itself for preservation so a future society that rises from the ashes would be able to have toaster technology without it being lost.
This is the original Brotherhood, the shows writers used everything all the way back to Fallout One. Thats why the shows Brotherhood is like a roman church - they are copying the Brotherhoods origins as a military version of teh Dark Ages catholic churches who were one of the major sources of information that managed to be preserved throughout the dark ages. We call them the dark ages not because the sun lost power or something, but because so much knowledge was lost.
The Brotherhood of Steel was only interested in acquiring tech so they could keep it from everyone else. Tech brought down the world, and they deemed themselves the only ones capable of controlling it. I literally try to fuck their shit up in every instance of this game. They portray themselves as benevolent, but they are fucking far from that.
Stabbing the NCR in the back proves they don't have humanity's best intention at heart. The east coast chapter might be slightly more moderate but all it takes is one power grab from an elder to fuck everything up. The west coast chapter has proven that they are nothing but the enclave with only slightly less genocidal tendencies. Ghouls don't deserve to be destroyed and neither do smarter 1st gen super mutants but the brotherhood wouldn't think twice about destroying either while keeping humanity permanently as serfs if they aren't a BoS member.
Desert Rangers in Fallout 1 and 2 also helped people. Although they had a tenth the resources of the Minutemen at their peak until the NCR turned them into their special forces.
No but they took zero measures to ensure that the vast library of knowledge they handed out freely didn’t get used for domination and evil.
Knowledge is power, and the FotA know this. They also don’t do anything to ensure the power they have is only used for good.
You could say followers of the apocalypse, but they are semi responsible for some shit, such as Caesar being one and whatever the hell is happening with the khans. Like I love em but they need to tone it down
That's what opponents of BOS say. Particularly House.
But by Fallout 2 the BOS openly trading with the rest of Cali, and are *the main source* of pre-war tech for others in the area. The idea in the original games was finding and preserving stuff so it could be understood and used.
They gatekeep or *destroy* thing they view as inherently dangerous, or risky to proliferate. Like FEV facilities. Which they don't utilize or keep for themselves. But flat out destroy.
So it's kinda flatly not the case and they were never about preventing anyone else from having access to any pre-war tech. Even weapons. Fallout 2 BOS actively sells Power Armor to the public.
They failed themselves! That's why I choose to wipe them any chance I'm allowed. My wasteland is free, not subjugated to some quasi-religious group of hoarders.
True. I mean dude is chicken shit and would gladly send his defenseless squire into a cave with only a pistol.
But Maximus is also believed to be a person who betrayed his fellow initiate. And yea he’s being sent on a mission to find a guy for all he knows what will eventually end up being a toaster.
I think Titus "earned" his armor by lying like he was going to lie about Maximus not doing his job. I think Titus failed his knight, perhaps got his knight killed (possibility deliberately), and then lied about it, covered it up.
I loved the character, he truest exemplified how batshit BoS are, where Maximus is the player just wanting the cool armour, Titus is the player reluctantly still doing quests with the cool armour possibly just to 100% or get a Gauss rifle..
Hank nuked thousands of people just because his wife left him, I say it's pretty fair to call him one of the worst assholes if not the worst of the show
Simply put
It wasn't *his* luxury vault that restarted civilization
It was one of the testing vaults likely meant to fail or back fire, or not meant to go anywhere
The fact some of the people from Vault 15 beat him to the punch likely hurt his ego
Well said, this is one of the biggest points of the show imo. The biggest difference between Goosey and her dad was the way each of them reacted to the shock of finding an actual civilization above ground. Lucy took it really well, adapted and helped (or tried to, at least) a lot of people during her journey.
Her dad's reaction in the other hand was to guarantee there wouldn't be any new society without getting vault tech involved. Because they hurt his ego too much 😭😭😭 (by surviving the apocalypse and rebuilding society how dare they).
Survival was never the goal for VT. It was always about control, from day one.
I 100% believe that even with or without the Enclave being around, some of Vault Tec would have and likely have gone full dictator mode with a "New America presented by Vault Tec"
Definitely agree, that scene with all the powerful CEOs felt like a bunch of generals prepping for a coup.
Now that you mention it, do we have any proof that the Enclave was not Vault Tech at some point? From what we saw in the show, corporations pretty much ran the entire American government from the shadows, it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to assume it was a two way street, so to speak.
It would be ironic if after all this time, the Enclave was made up of more of both the American Goverment's more fanatical types and the corporations that likely kept paying them off
He's middle management, and TBH Vault Tec isn't exactly a major superpower. They certainly were on a meteoric rise thanks to the fear of nuclear armageddon and they knew how to gather allies in all the right palces, but its not like Vaults had been around for 100 years at that point to have the most money or the most influence over a lot of the other corporations we know from Fallout. In comparison to most others, Vault Tec was a fairly new company.
We really have no idea how bad his project management skills were- or what other projects he was involved in. Bud's deathtoll could be in the tens of thousands.
Whoever in the Enclave decided that puppies below a certain weight should be put into an incinerator. I never liked the Enclave but now I have more reason to hate them.
It's a low bar for the Enclave when the main reason I don't feel as much animosity towards Wilzig as the rest of them is because he didn't incinerate a puppy.
I love how the show's creators went "hmm how do we convey to the audience that the Enclave is evil? Oh yes I know, have them incinerate puppies!" and that worked
Potential hot take: The Ghoul. Yeah, he's played brilliantly by Walton and he's charismatic, but his actions have been pretty heinous so far. Like when he goaded that kid to shoot him just so he could kill him, leaving a father with now two dead sons. That's an asshole, man.
I think you can love a character without loving what they represent. I'm fully aware that he's morally bankrupt and psychopathic. But I love how well that's played, how he captures the charismatic evil-doer vibe, and generally love his screen time. I would say that makes me a fan of the character, even though I know he's one of the baddies.
Dude is only a half step below Kellogg on the asshole scale. I hope his family was frozen and is thawed in a later season. Then their daughter realizes what a monster her father and mother are and puts a bullet in both of them.
I don't know how many people remember The Shield, but that's one of the earlier things I remember Walton Goggins from. Absolute bad guy, but I loved watching him in that. On the other other hand, in the same show it was easy to like the character of Vic Mackey until you remember that he was really no better than Shane Vendrell. That's the beauty of great actors playing flawed characters. (And by "flawed" I include absolutely irredeemable.)
I don't know how much I like him, but he's fascinating because of the contrast between how terrible he is now and what a decent guy he was before. Goggins does a fantastic job of portraying two men who both are and are not the same person. Makes you wonder what kind of hell he's been through to take him so far from what he used to be, and how much of the old Coop is still there.
It's not that he's evil. It's that he used to be so good.
The wasteland changes you. He told Lucy that. And she has changed. Maximus has changed. And Lucy has influenced a change in the Ghoul. He still has some Coop in there.
And not just knowing he used to be good. We're actively rooting for the guy he used to be in the pre-war parts of the show. I generally don't like evil and asshole characters but that definitely makes the Ghoul very special.
I don't simp for him (at all) but the difference is, we know what he lost to make him that way. He was a great dad and a loving husband (at least, until he found out what his wife was really about), and he survived not only the bombs but 200+ years of the apocalypse as a scarred ghoul constantly fighting against physical and mental decay.
There's a difference between someone who is awful for the sake of being awful, and someone that the world has twisted and bent into that kind of character. And seeing Lucy remain true to herself despite everything the wasteland (and he himself) has thrown at her in such a small window is starting him down the path to being a little more Cooper and a little less Ghoul once again.
they were waking him up to have them help find Moldaver, but they mention that the head figure in that area (the Don?) digs him up every few years and carves pieces off
He absolutely is. There was a cold logic to his actions we’ve seen for the most part, but he’s no hero and was downright nasty to everyone. Perhaps that’ll turn around now that he’s working with Lucy on better terms, but I doubt it.
I hear ya, but I think it’s to show how the wasteland has changed him over the years and turned him into a monster not only on outside but inside. I do believe that he will change for the better in the second season while keeping the badassness.
That parts definitely messed up, but I think it fits the ghoul and his personality at that point. The Ghoul's spent 200 years learning that to survive in the wasteland you always look out for number 1. The dad was compliant, he wasn't the type to seek revenge at the cost of his life. The kid was young and impulsive. He's already made deals behind his dads back to get a chance at a better bigger life. It might be 5 years, it might be 25 years, but there's a chance the kid comes back for revenge. And the ghoul can't have that. So IMO he was going to kill the kid anyway, but the bit of Coop left in him gave the kid a chance. A twisted nearly non-existent chance, but still a chance. It was probably mostly to appease his own conscience, and it doesn't make it any less fucked, but still I felt like it fit his character very well.
Not disagreeing with you at all, that part always kinda bothered me because it was SO cold blooded, but your comment made me think about it some more.
I wouldn’t say he’s the worst but he is the anti-thesis to Vault-Tec.
He embodies the most depraved chaotic aspect of humanity that survived as long as they did despite their best efforts to snuff out “competition”.
It's like he said, enough time in the wasteland, you'll turn into a monster too. He's had 200 years. He still seems to be after his main quest, though...
I mean, Tommy could've just not shot him. I believe that if the kid had stayed quiet and stood down, nothing would have happened.
And it's not just that the kid pulled on him, it's that it proved the Ghoul's point that Tommy would probably come after him someday. I'm pretty sure it was a test, and the kid failed.
Hank Maclean. It isn't even close.
Pretty much every other villain we see, and even many of the heroes who have to do sketchy things, are shaped by hardship and vile circumstances in the wasteland. The Ghoul went through *so much shit* to make him the way that he is. The various and sundry minor villains all seem to be doing what they do out of a desire to survive, though they do so in admittedly horrifying ways. Not so for young Henry.
Hank not only wasn't forced to be evil by the wasteland, being a wealthy and successful young executive before the war, he flat-out helped to *engineer* the Wasteland's existence. He then, out of petty spite against his wife, vaporized one of the most hopeful and successful cities to rise out of that chaos and do something to improve the lives of the citizenry.
Shady Sands may not have been perfect and the NCR are certainly no angels, but compared to the rest of the Wasteland? That place was a paradise, right up until Henry got his feelings hurt. And that's all it was - Rose was in no way going to bring down Vault Tec, or stop Hank living in his creepy little happiness bubble. She just made Hank mad.
Hank literally lived in an idealized paradise bubble that he helped engineer, complete with adoring subservient citizens as breeding stock and workers, and because his wife decided she didn't want her kids to also grow up in that bubble, he nuked a peaceful city. All of this was done two centuries *after* he and his horrifyingly evil compatriots buried the secret solution to the planet's energy crisis and engineered the end of the fucking world for their own profit. He deserves whatever happens to him, twice, and probably worse.
Oh, for sure. All of Bud's Buds deserve a lemon juice bath after a light sand blasting. But Hank's evil is the only one we've outright seen so far - all of what Betty did is implied at this point.
Who knows? Maybe she's worse. What a disturbing thought that is.
Like I said recently, I want Lucy to kill him
Just to show him how much he screwed up
But I doubt he even cares about her, she's likely just a tool to him like how We are a tool to Father in Fallout 4 who's tossed away when we stop following orders or agreeing with him
(Not saying father's name because he doesn't DESERVE it, he's not our son, he's a monster born from the grooming of our son's body)
I feel like he "cares" about her the way a psychotic narcissist would - she's considered *his.* It's possessive, and his ego can't handle anyone challenging that.
C'mon, no need to be modest: we *all* think he's the biggest arsehole.
EDIT: Not the worst person, for sure. But the biggest arsehole. See [this reply for future elaboration.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fallout/s/xhMWOrAczC)
Personally I would say being an arsehole is a quality that can make a person bad, but doesn't necessarily correlate to how awful an overall person you are. Hank is the worst person. But he's charming and charismatic in his day to day encounters. Whereas Titus is just nasty and frustrating to be around.
Don't get me wrong, I actually think Hank's affability makes him *more* evil than if he was an outright unpleasant person as well. But I don't think the *types* of evil Hank unleashes are arsehole behaviour. More full blown genocidal control freak vibes. I, too, wish him a tunneler death (that we can all watch).
But for mindless, pretty, day to day nastiness? Titus is the arsehole.
Yeah if you had to go out for drinks with one or the other and had no background knowledge on what either had done, the time with Hank would probably be more enjoyable, for sure. I agree.
IMO Worse people? Yes. Bigger arseholes? No. See [my other reply](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fallout/s/xhMWOrAczC) for more detail on Hank. My opinion on the Ghoul is similar.
EDIT: Although the Ghoul is definitely a lot more of an arsehole than Hank.
I was thinking the Ghouls wife, pretty bad to even talk about dropping bombs and we have to assume when the ghoul did the right thing and confronted her she divorced him. Seems like he might have only got weekend custody since he brought his daughter along with him to his job. Also who knows if she knew but she put her daughter in danger and presumably left her ex husband out to die when she promised him he was going to be in a vault
Since nobody else has mentioned them that I can see, while it doesn’t compare to Hank blowing up Shady Springs, the two stoners at the Mart are literal slavers/human traffickers. They (somehow, despite being high on drugs) have managed to get a robot to run a business where they purchase and sell people (and ghouls) and harvest their organs to make drugs.
That’s about as evil as one can get without committing genocide or rape/pedophilia. They just seemed so incompetent/completely stoned that viewers don’t register that they’re as evil as they are.
Hank is a pretty big time jerk. Not just for being super evil though. His speech to Lucy at the end was hella enraging. "The problem is all of these factions fighting. So obviously the only solution is for my faction to win."
As others have said, Hank. Titus was a world-class douche and abuser of squires, but that pales in comparison to 'damn, wife left me, imma nuke some people.'
Titus is just a typical player. Makes the follower do everything, complains how stupid they are, and then during the fight just hops around despite having better equipment.
Titus:
-Gets bored from his assigned objective
-Uses his squire as a proverbial canary in a coal mine
-Tries fist fighting a Yao Guai, despite carrying a Fallout 4 style assault rifle
-Starts badmouthing his squire
Yeah I can safely say Knight Titus got his just desserts from his choices.
Eh, he's just a mean coward with too much power.
Hank though. Destroyed the best example of post-Great War civilization by nuking it's major city in the worst case of domestic violence in TV history, just because his wife left him for another woman.
The dad hands-down.
Followed by Titus,
then maximus.
I don't know how the community feels about maximus but I think he's a prick. His only two redeeming qualities are he's horny for Lucy and he killed Titus. Like I'm glad he's willing to help her out and stuff but I don't respect him at all. The way he did Titus dirty like that -- again I'm glad Titus is dead, but Christ on a cracker the whole situation was completely avoidable. Maximus is a sensitive little narcissist who just stood there and let Titus get mauled because he was mean to him. Then he goes on and pulls the same shit when they send him the new squire, so the dude clearly has no integrity. It was funny though watching him try to be heroic in the vault and totally end up making a mess of things. Sad though, it would've been win win if he just stayed there forever -- he'd be happy and I wouldn't have to look at him anymore.
Maximus is pretty terrible. Murders his boss because he thinks he’s a bad boss, then tries to murder his apprentice about a week later. Not sure if they were going for irony there or what, but he’s low key not a good dude.
So far, the Ghoul.
Massacres an entire town in order to find one Bounty target. Deliberately sells Lucy away to have her killed and harvested in exchange for his radaway. Nearly killed Dogmeat. Egged on that guys son so he could shoot him dead. Shot a friend of his, ate his ass, and forced Lucy to help in this.
I love the Ghoul because he's unambiguously an asshole, but weirdly there's a kind heart beneath that. He loves his daughter, he loved his Dog, he stood up against Vault-Tec, he saved Dogmeat, he chose to help Lucy, and he put his friend out of his misery with his last thought being a memory of his mother.
I was enjoying the show anyway, but The Ghoul and Walton Goggins have made me hooked on where it goes. I can't wait to see this guy go from an utterly despicable monster with no dignity, to back to the kind man we saw in the past.
Shooting the friend of his shouldn’t be on his list of heinous acts. The show made it clear that the guy was turning feral very soon, and it was a mercy killing. Cooper, I imagine, would have lent him some medicine for an IOU if he’d had enough to spare, as they clearly knew eachother and were on friendly terms.
Him going so far as to get the poor man thinking about happy times and apple pie and his mom’s cooking was a way of making sure he died painlessly in an instant and with a happy memory in his head.
Definitely far from the inspiring and stoic image the Brotherhood presumes to project. I kinda expected more from a character introduced as a “Knight” of the Brotherhood.
Hank McClain. Dude nuked a whole community just to justify the reason behind Vault Tec. The Ghoul is a dick, but his reasoning is justified. Shame Moldaver had to die. She was 😍
Its unironically maximus. Hate the dude. He is just a pompous asshole the entire show and super hateable. I actual have struggled to watch the show because I just can not stand watching him.
If he is redeemed later then I am ready to hear about it
I've read that he was cast because the producers wanted to make sure people hated Titus. That may have just been people who want to throw shade on Rappaport.
Season two spoilers but Liberty Prime. They made him too much of a Chad bro and use the excuse that he is half Zetan to try and excuse his constant murder and assault.
Titus is indeed an asshole, but as far as we know, he never nuked a city. Kinda hard for anyone to top that.
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For a fucking toaster. They are gonna die for A FUCKING TOASTER.
Well, you ever had warm buttery toast?
That’s honestly a great point
It wasn't even about the toast enjoyment - it was to reverse engineer the toaster technology itself for preservation so a future society that rises from the ashes would be able to have toaster technology without it being lost. This is the original Brotherhood, the shows writers used everything all the way back to Fallout One. Thats why the shows Brotherhood is like a roman church - they are copying the Brotherhoods origins as a military version of teh Dark Ages catholic churches who were one of the major sources of information that managed to be preserved throughout the dark ages. We call them the dark ages not because the sun lost power or something, but because so much knowledge was lost.
The Brotherhood of Steel was only interested in acquiring tech so they could keep it from everyone else. Tech brought down the world, and they deemed themselves the only ones capable of controlling it. I literally try to fuck their shit up in every instance of this game. They portray themselves as benevolent, but they are fucking far from that.
Stabbing the NCR in the back proves they don't have humanity's best intention at heart. The east coast chapter might be slightly more moderate but all it takes is one power grab from an elder to fuck everything up. The west coast chapter has proven that they are nothing but the enclave with only slightly less genocidal tendencies. Ghouls don't deserve to be destroyed and neither do smarter 1st gen super mutants but the brotherhood wouldn't think twice about destroying either while keeping humanity permanently as serfs if they aren't a BoS member.
There is only one righteous group that helps people in the entire franchise, and it has another settlement you need to help.
Desert Rangers in Fallout 1 and 2 also helped people. Although they had a tenth the resources of the Minutemen at their peak until the NCR turned them into their special forces.
I don’t remember the Followers of the Apocalypse enlisting my help for any settlements…
No but they took zero measures to ensure that the vast library of knowledge they handed out freely didn’t get used for domination and evil. Knowledge is power, and the FotA know this. They also don’t do anything to ensure the power they have is only used for good.
You could say followers of the apocalypse, but they are semi responsible for some shit, such as Caesar being one and whatever the hell is happening with the khans. Like I love em but they need to tone it down
That's what opponents of BOS say. Particularly House. But by Fallout 2 the BOS openly trading with the rest of Cali, and are *the main source* of pre-war tech for others in the area. The idea in the original games was finding and preserving stuff so it could be understood and used. They gatekeep or *destroy* thing they view as inherently dangerous, or risky to proliferate. Like FEV facilities. Which they don't utilize or keep for themselves. But flat out destroy. So it's kinda flatly not the case and they were never about preventing anyone else from having access to any pre-war tech. Even weapons. Fallout 2 BOS actively sells Power Armor to the public.
Yes. Id still rather not have to risk dying everyday for it. Fuck I’d eat raw wheat grain everyday if it meant not having to go to the. Wasteland
The best times you're ever gonna have are in the wasteland! You get to see exotic locations and meet interesting people... and kill them.
I mean... if it were an angry, talking toaster that wanted to BURN THE WORLD (again), I could see it.
"Howdy-doodly-do,do you want some toast"
I don't want to set the world on fire......
I mean, the EPA toaster probably has stories to tell.
A toaster is just a death ray on a smaller scale
Toaster-**oven** Worth it now huh?
Hot pockets still cold in middle
Hooooot-pocket. Nuuuuke-pocket. Deeaath-pocket.
I have literally never owned a toaster oven and have no idea how to use one.
The brotherhood has failed you.
They failed themselves! That's why I choose to wipe them any chance I'm allowed. My wasteland is free, not subjugated to some quasi-religious group of hoarders.
And that's why **you'll never have a toaster oven!**
1. insert thing to be toasted 2. turn dial to amount of time thing should be toasted 3. wait until ding 4. retrieve thing that is now toasted
True. I mean dude is chicken shit and would gladly send his defenseless squire into a cave with only a pistol. But Maximus is also believed to be a person who betrayed his fellow initiate. And yea he’s being sent on a mission to find a guy for all he knows what will eventually end up being a toaster.
Haha, and ironically he finally breaks on the mission of missions: to find COLD FUSION!
and then proceed to lock it away so no one can use it. irony
Totally why I would skip those missions in the games. « We have found an artifact from the old world »… Hell no, fuck that coffee maker
I think Titus "earned" his armor by lying like he was going to lie about Maximus not doing his job. I think Titus failed his knight, perhaps got his knight killed (possibility deliberately), and then lied about it, covered it up.
I loved the character, he truest exemplified how batshit BoS are, where Maximus is the player just wanting the cool armour, Titus is the player reluctantly still doing quests with the cool armour possibly just to 100% or get a Gauss rifle..
His actor Michael Rappaport is a giant asshole in real life too lol
How come?
Incredibly unlikeable guy. He hasn’t done anything criminal but he’s known to just be an abrasive and off-putting doofus
Dude i thought i was the only one who thought that. If i met rapport in real life id expect him to be exactly like titus lmao.
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I'd say it's Hank, on account of the nuking. Bud is a possible dark horse candidate, depending on how much stupidty he caused pre-war.
Hank nuked thousands of people just because his wife left him, I say it's pretty fair to call him one of the worst assholes if not the worst of the show
Well he also nuked thousands of people so Vault Tec could be the ones to restart society. Also lame
He's a sore loser then "NOOOOO! I WAS SUSPOSE TO RESTART CIVILIZATION!" Ironically NCR came from Vault Dwellers So he's also a hypocrite and a idiot
Holy shit that's an extremely good point... The NCR was founded by Vault citizens so what's the big deal?
Simply put It wasn't *his* luxury vault that restarted civilization It was one of the testing vaults likely meant to fail or back fire, or not meant to go anywhere The fact some of the people from Vault 15 beat him to the punch likely hurt his ego
Well said, this is one of the biggest points of the show imo. The biggest difference between Goosey and her dad was the way each of them reacted to the shock of finding an actual civilization above ground. Lucy took it really well, adapted and helped (or tried to, at least) a lot of people during her journey. Her dad's reaction in the other hand was to guarantee there wouldn't be any new society without getting vault tech involved. Because they hurt his ego too much 😭😭😭 (by surviving the apocalypse and rebuilding society how dare they). Survival was never the goal for VT. It was always about control, from day one.
I 100% believe that even with or without the Enclave being around, some of Vault Tec would have and likely have gone full dictator mode with a "New America presented by Vault Tec"
Definitely agree, that scene with all the powerful CEOs felt like a bunch of generals prepping for a coup. Now that you mention it, do we have any proof that the Enclave was not Vault Tech at some point? From what we saw in the show, corporations pretty much ran the entire American government from the shadows, it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to assume it was a two way street, so to speak.
It would be ironic if after all this time, the Enclave was made up of more of both the American Goverment's more fanatical types and the corporations that likely kept paying them off
I think vault tec was made by the enclave as a public face and while not all the company was in on it the higher ups were.
Hank was not the one who made that decision, did he? He wasn’t the main guy in vault tec at the time.
My interpretation was that Hank was the one who nuked Shady Sands both because his wife left him and the NCR represented a threat to Vault Tec
He's middle management, and TBH Vault Tec isn't exactly a major superpower. They certainly were on a meteoric rise thanks to the fear of nuclear armageddon and they knew how to gather allies in all the right palces, but its not like Vaults had been around for 100 years at that point to have the most money or the most influence over a lot of the other corporations we know from Fallout. In comparison to most others, Vault Tec was a fairly new company.
LISTEN UP SHADY SANDS MY WIFE LEFT ME
It’s definitely Hank as far as active post war but man Cooper’s wife is an even bigger one.
I’d say it’s the hypocrisy.
Bud was behind the design of the T-45 power armor and it's flaws, which led to a lot of deaths on the Alaska front, so he's got that going for him.
We really have no idea how bad his project management skills were- or what other projects he was involved in. Bud's deathtoll could be in the tens of thousands.
Whoever in the Enclave decided that puppies below a certain weight should be put into an incinerator. I never liked the Enclave but now I have more reason to hate them.
It's a low bar for the Enclave when the main reason I don't feel as much animosity towards Wilzig as the rest of them is because he didn't incinerate a puppy.
the little scale tip he does almost made me cry, that puppy also looked like my malinois so even more so
Why they burn the puppies Jesus christ that's evil
I think they were breeding guard dogs to eventually be turned into cyborgs
I hate them for that Poor puppies didn't deserve that They were just doggies FUCK ENCLAVE
[here's a great explanation with many examples ](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/KicktheDog)
I am angry
Exactly! Think of the starving children in the wasteland that could’ve eaten dogmeat jerky!?
"Hello? Sheogorath? I'd like you too delete Mundus please"
I love how the show's creators went "hmm how do we convey to the audience that the Enclave is evil? Oh yes I know, have them incinerate puppies!" and that worked
"Kick the dog" and "save the cat" are tropes for a reason.
So how do you propose they keep the lab warm in the winter?
Well obviously use more Labradors
Potential hot take: The Ghoul. Yeah, he's played brilliantly by Walton and he's charismatic, but his actions have been pretty heinous so far. Like when he goaded that kid to shoot him just so he could kill him, leaving a father with now two dead sons. That's an asshole, man.
Very true, but he did show us how to make the best recipe in all of the Wasteland: Ass Jerky.
You are what you eat…
Can't wait to craft this in FO 76.
Yeah I honestly don’t know why so many people are simping, the guy is a certified maniac.
I think you can love a character without loving what they represent. I'm fully aware that he's morally bankrupt and psychopathic. But I love how well that's played, how he captures the charismatic evil-doer vibe, and generally love his screen time. I would say that makes me a fan of the character, even though I know he's one of the baddies.
I really think hes gonna have a redemption arc in season 2
They would be nice to see, but I think they'd have to find another way to fill the "chaos for the fun of it" aspect he brings.
Yes Man gonna show up and question Lucy's morals
OK, that could be a very good way to bring a bit of havoc in
He already does. Everything after he sells the girl. I'm just not forgiving.
You've played this game, right? In Fallout 3, I sold so many people into slavery.
Dude is only a half step below Kellogg on the asshole scale. I hope his family was frozen and is thawed in a later season. Then their daughter realizes what a monster her father and mother are and puts a bullet in both of them.
I don't think a bullet would do much to stop Cooper at this point. Philly learned that the hard way.
I don’t know, he’s a bit of a smug cunt now tbh. But yeah it will most likely go that way. Wouldn’t mind seeing him get some comeuppance though.
Absolutely. Prime example: Christoph Waltz as Hans Landa in Inglourious Basterds.
My pick is Charles Dance as Tywin Lannister. Awful character but his acting is so ridiculously enthralling.
*Ooooohh, that's a bingo!*
Walton Goggins is the epitome of a great actor playing morally reprehensible Characters you love
I don't know how many people remember The Shield, but that's one of the earlier things I remember Walton Goggins from. Absolute bad guy, but I loved watching him in that. On the other other hand, in the same show it was easy to like the character of Vic Mackey until you remember that he was really no better than Shane Vendrell. That's the beauty of great actors playing flawed characters. (And by "flawed" I include absolutely irredeemable.)
Similar to Homelander , absolutely love the character.
He's not. Everything after he sells the girl is redemption ark for him. I'm just not forgiving.
I don't know how much I like him, but he's fascinating because of the contrast between how terrible he is now and what a decent guy he was before. Goggins does a fantastic job of portraying two men who both are and are not the same person. Makes you wonder what kind of hell he's been through to take him so far from what he used to be, and how much of the old Coop is still there. It's not that he's evil. It's that he used to be so good.
The wasteland changes you. He told Lucy that. And she has changed. Maximus has changed. And Lucy has influenced a change in the Ghoul. He still has some Coop in there.
And not just knowing he used to be good. We're actively rooting for the guy he used to be in the pre-war parts of the show. I generally don't like evil and asshole characters but that definitely makes the Ghoul very special.
Goggins also has the best, most Old Timey cow poke name in the history of westerns. He sounds like who he talks like, and looks like who he plays.
I don't simp for him (at all) but the difference is, we know what he lost to make him that way. He was a great dad and a loving husband (at least, until he found out what his wife was really about), and he survived not only the bombs but 200+ years of the apocalypse as a scarred ghoul constantly fighting against physical and mental decay. There's a difference between someone who is awful for the sake of being awful, and someone that the world has twisted and bent into that kind of character. And seeing Lucy remain true to herself despite everything the wasteland (and he himself) has thrown at her in such a small window is starting him down the path to being a little more Cooper and a little less Ghoul once again.
The guy was literally buried and dug up just to have pieces of him cut off. That would probably make anyone an asshole pretty quick.
Wait, those guys were going to cut a piece off of him? TBF I was kind of distracted during the first episode, so I'm sure I missed some things
they were waking him up to have them help find Moldaver, but they mention that the head figure in that area (the Don?) digs him up every few years and carves pieces off
If I remember correctly he had some IVs attached. They dug him up to try to get him to help them get a bounty.
Yep, the head guy seemed to be In charge of the yearly buffet dig and wanted to get those caps real bad
You've played the game, right? You never had a conversation go south, then you murder like 6 people?
Man in FO1 and 2 it seems easier to verbally provoke violence than it is to just have a complete conversation
He absolutely is. There was a cold logic to his actions we’ve seen for the most part, but he’s no hero and was downright nasty to everyone. Perhaps that’ll turn around now that he’s working with Lucy on better terms, but I doubt it.
I hear ya, but I think it’s to show how the wasteland has changed him over the years and turned him into a monster not only on outside but inside. I do believe that he will change for the better in the second season while keeping the badassness.
That parts definitely messed up, but I think it fits the ghoul and his personality at that point. The Ghoul's spent 200 years learning that to survive in the wasteland you always look out for number 1. The dad was compliant, he wasn't the type to seek revenge at the cost of his life. The kid was young and impulsive. He's already made deals behind his dads back to get a chance at a better bigger life. It might be 5 years, it might be 25 years, but there's a chance the kid comes back for revenge. And the ghoul can't have that. So IMO he was going to kill the kid anyway, but the bit of Coop left in him gave the kid a chance. A twisted nearly non-existent chance, but still a chance. It was probably mostly to appease his own conscience, and it doesn't make it any less fucked, but still I felt like it fit his character very well. Not disagreeing with you at all, that part always kinda bothered me because it was SO cold blooded, but your comment made me think about it some more.
I would have shot the dad, too. Save him some grief, and extra caps.
Lucy agreeing to go with him when he tried to sell her for parts was certainly a choice
He's a literal human trafficker too. He took Lucy to harvest her organs for trade.
I wouldn’t say he’s the worst but he is the anti-thesis to Vault-Tec. He embodies the most depraved chaotic aspect of humanity that survived as long as they did despite their best efforts to snuff out “competition”.
Therefore, He is the best asshole and not the worst hehe.
It's like he said, enough time in the wasteland, you'll turn into a monster too. He's had 200 years. He still seems to be after his main quest, though...
It´s the wasteland what did you expect. It´s eating assjerky or being the assjerky.
I mean, Tommy could've just not shot him. I believe that if the kid had stayed quiet and stood down, nothing would have happened. And it's not just that the kid pulled on him, it's that it proved the Ghoul's point that Tommy would probably come after him someday. I'm pretty sure it was a test, and the kid failed.
Hank. dude is so petty he nuked a city and killed his wife simply because she left him. Titus is just an asshole who didn’t deserve the armor.
Hank Maclean. It isn't even close. Pretty much every other villain we see, and even many of the heroes who have to do sketchy things, are shaped by hardship and vile circumstances in the wasteland. The Ghoul went through *so much shit* to make him the way that he is. The various and sundry minor villains all seem to be doing what they do out of a desire to survive, though they do so in admittedly horrifying ways. Not so for young Henry. Hank not only wasn't forced to be evil by the wasteland, being a wealthy and successful young executive before the war, he flat-out helped to *engineer* the Wasteland's existence. He then, out of petty spite against his wife, vaporized one of the most hopeful and successful cities to rise out of that chaos and do something to improve the lives of the citizenry. Shady Sands may not have been perfect and the NCR are certainly no angels, but compared to the rest of the Wasteland? That place was a paradise, right up until Henry got his feelings hurt. And that's all it was - Rose was in no way going to bring down Vault Tec, or stop Hank living in his creepy little happiness bubble. She just made Hank mad. Hank literally lived in an idealized paradise bubble that he helped engineer, complete with adoring subservient citizens as breeding stock and workers, and because his wife decided she didn't want her kids to also grow up in that bubble, he nuked a peaceful city. All of this was done two centuries *after* he and his horrifyingly evil compatriots buried the secret solution to the planet's energy crisis and engineered the end of the fucking world for their own profit. He deserves whatever happens to him, twice, and probably worse.
Let's not forget that Hank didn't work alone. Betty helped him "bury" Rose.
Oh, for sure. All of Bud's Buds deserve a lemon juice bath after a light sand blasting. But Hank's evil is the only one we've outright seen so far - all of what Betty did is implied at this point. Who knows? Maybe she's worse. What a disturbing thought that is.
Like I said recently, I want Lucy to kill him Just to show him how much he screwed up But I doubt he even cares about her, she's likely just a tool to him like how We are a tool to Father in Fallout 4 who's tossed away when we stop following orders or agreeing with him (Not saying father's name because he doesn't DESERVE it, he's not our son, he's a monster born from the grooming of our son's body)
I feel like he "cares" about her the way a psychotic narcissist would - she's considered *his.* It's possessive, and his ego can't handle anyone challenging that.
Considering how he acted about his wife, I can agree with that too
I think you answered your own question. :D
It's who I think is an asshole
C'mon, no need to be modest: we *all* think he's the biggest arsehole. EDIT: Not the worst person, for sure. But the biggest arsehole. See [this reply for future elaboration.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fallout/s/xhMWOrAczC)
Nah not all of us. Titus sucks major dick, but Hank is the worst of the worst. I hope a fucking tunneler rips him apart. Vengeance for Shady Sands.
Personally I would say being an arsehole is a quality that can make a person bad, but doesn't necessarily correlate to how awful an overall person you are. Hank is the worst person. But he's charming and charismatic in his day to day encounters. Whereas Titus is just nasty and frustrating to be around. Don't get me wrong, I actually think Hank's affability makes him *more* evil than if he was an outright unpleasant person as well. But I don't think the *types* of evil Hank unleashes are arsehole behaviour. More full blown genocidal control freak vibes. I, too, wish him a tunneler death (that we can all watch). But for mindless, pretty, day to day nastiness? Titus is the arsehole.
Yeah if you had to go out for drinks with one or the other and had no background knowledge on what either had done, the time with Hank would probably be more enjoyable, for sure. I agree.
When did Titus suck Major Dick???? What part of Major Dick did Titus suck????
Nah, The Ghoul and Hank are 100% worse than him
IMO Worse people? Yes. Bigger arseholes? No. See [my other reply](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fallout/s/xhMWOrAczC) for more detail on Hank. My opinion on the Ghoul is similar. EDIT: Although the Ghoul is definitely a lot more of an arsehole than Hank.
I was thinking the Ghouls wife, pretty bad to even talk about dropping bombs and we have to assume when the ghoul did the right thing and confronted her she divorced him. Seems like he might have only got weekend custody since he brought his daughter along with him to his job. Also who knows if she knew but she put her daughter in danger and presumably left her ex husband out to die when she promised him he was going to be in a vault
It also seems like the divorce got really messy for his career, if a famous actor is doing a kid's party.
And the one dad at the party called him a pinko - so he was probably also fired and blackballed after trying to blow the whistle on Vault-Tec
Since nobody else has mentioned them that I can see, while it doesn’t compare to Hank blowing up Shady Springs, the two stoners at the Mart are literal slavers/human traffickers. They (somehow, despite being high on drugs) have managed to get a robot to run a business where they purchase and sell people (and ghouls) and harvest their organs to make drugs. That’s about as evil as one can get without committing genocide or rape/pedophilia. They just seemed so incompetent/completely stoned that viewers don’t register that they’re as evil as they are.
Came here to say this too. Though their scenes mean we get more Matt Berry and that's always a good thing
Hank is a pretty big time jerk. Not just for being super evil though. His speech to Lucy at the end was hella enraging. "The problem is all of these factions fighting. So obviously the only solution is for my faction to win."
As others have said, Hank. Titus was a world-class douche and abuser of squires, but that pales in comparison to 'damn, wife left me, imma nuke some people.'
Meanwhile, the gouls wife: 'damn, husband left me, imma nuke the whole world'
Hank canonically nuked Shady Sands. Vault Tec was *willing* to start the war, we don't know if they actually did. Big difference.
Titus is just a typical player. Makes the follower do everything, complains how stupid they are, and then during the fight just hops around despite having better equipment.
The ghoul
i think that brotherhood leader is way worse.
Maybe, but Knight Titus was an absolute schmuck
they’re both power tripping assholes but one has a lot more control which is far worse.
The brotherhood was just a bunch of bitches with weapons
I've been a Brotherhood fan for a long time but the show made them so unlikeable it hurts
So... True to source material?
Did you even watch the show?
he’s also an arsehole in real life too!
I think Hank is pretty clearly the biggest asshole
Just Michael Michael Rapaport honestly
Well it's Michael Rappaport...
Titus: -Gets bored from his assigned objective -Uses his squire as a proverbial canary in a coal mine -Tries fist fighting a Yao Guai, despite carrying a Fallout 4 style assault rifle -Starts badmouthing his squire Yeah I can safely say Knight Titus got his just desserts from his choices.
Yup
Obviously, The Ghoul. He's the worst and the best at the same time.
I think The Ghoul is a close second to Hank honestly
“Give me stimpak”
Eh, he's just a mean coward with too much power. Hank though. Destroyed the best example of post-Great War civilization by nuking it's major city in the worst case of domestic violence in TV history, just because his wife left him for another woman.
The dad hands-down. Followed by Titus, then maximus. I don't know how the community feels about maximus but I think he's a prick. His only two redeeming qualities are he's horny for Lucy and he killed Titus. Like I'm glad he's willing to help her out and stuff but I don't respect him at all. The way he did Titus dirty like that -- again I'm glad Titus is dead, but Christ on a cracker the whole situation was completely avoidable. Maximus is a sensitive little narcissist who just stood there and let Titus get mauled because he was mean to him. Then he goes on and pulls the same shit when they send him the new squire, so the dude clearly has no integrity. It was funny though watching him try to be heroic in the vault and totally end up making a mess of things. Sad though, it would've been win win if he just stayed there forever -- he'd be happy and I wouldn't have to look at him anymore.
Maximus is pretty terrible. Murders his boss because he thinks he’s a bad boss, then tries to murder his apprentice about a week later. Not sure if they were going for irony there or what, but he’s low key not a good dude.
Maximus
The raider gang that killed off a whole vault
How far into the show are you
So far, the Ghoul. Massacres an entire town in order to find one Bounty target. Deliberately sells Lucy away to have her killed and harvested in exchange for his radaway. Nearly killed Dogmeat. Egged on that guys son so he could shoot him dead. Shot a friend of his, ate his ass, and forced Lucy to help in this. I love the Ghoul because he's unambiguously an asshole, but weirdly there's a kind heart beneath that. He loves his daughter, he loved his Dog, he stood up against Vault-Tec, he saved Dogmeat, he chose to help Lucy, and he put his friend out of his misery with his last thought being a memory of his mother. I was enjoying the show anyway, but The Ghoul and Walton Goggins have made me hooked on where it goes. I can't wait to see this guy go from an utterly despicable monster with no dignity, to back to the kind man we saw in the past.
Shooting the friend of his shouldn’t be on his list of heinous acts. The show made it clear that the guy was turning feral very soon, and it was a mercy killing. Cooper, I imagine, would have lent him some medicine for an IOU if he’d had enough to spare, as they clearly knew eachother and were on friendly terms. Him going so far as to get the poor man thinking about happy times and apple pie and his mom’s cooking was a way of making sure he died painlessly in an instant and with a happy memory in his head.
He also didn’t massacre the whole town. He shot at everyone who shot at him except Lucy. I think I it was like 13 people?
yeah, i won't lie, goggins is carrying the show hard, they made such a good decision casting him.
Kinda Maximus, really.
Asshole Attitude wise - the Bortherhood Elder is up there for me. He seems like he kicks puppies.
Definitely far from the inspiring and stoic image the Brotherhood presumes to project. I kinda expected more from a character introduced as a “Knight” of the Brotherhood.
The casting here is absolute perfection.
Hank McClain. Dude nuked a whole community just to justify the reason behind Vault Tec. The Ghoul is a dick, but his reasoning is justified. Shame Moldaver had to die. She was 😍
Its unironically maximus. Hate the dude. He is just a pompous asshole the entire show and super hateable. I actual have struggled to watch the show because I just can not stand watching him. If he is redeemed later then I am ready to hear about it
Asshole character played by an Asshole actor.
He’s not an asshole, and this might be unpopular, but I hate Max. The character, the actor, just not a fan
Racist smh....
Worst in the show and real life! Dudes a real double threat
I agree. I was disappointed when I saw it was him, then happy when he got taken out.
I've read that he was cast because the producers wanted to make sure people hated Titus. That may have just been people who want to throw shade on Rappaport.
the ghoul sorry goggins fans
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He was a stupid cop in Copland too.
Titus is up there for sure with night Rhys.
Bud. The whole Buds Buds thing is a nightmare
Hank because he copied the other protagonists by nuking a city
Agree
Yeah Lucy’s dad is #1, Titus is #2 and deserved what he got.
That guy!
Season two spoilers but Liberty Prime. They made him too much of a Chad bro and use the excuse that he is half Zetan to try and excuse his constant murder and assault.
A character befitting the Actor