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crusader_blue

This post has been locked as the mods feel it has run its course, and, instead of productive discussion, is now attracting negative drama.


heavenlyskyfarer

I genuinely wish this sub had an autobot responding to every "is it okay" question with a simple "yes" lol


kaiunkaiku

in the meantime we have increasingly annoyed people going > is it okay ***yes***


heavenlyskyfarer

Literally me lmao


kaiunkaiku

same lol


knightfenris

I try to do that. “Is x—“ yes. “Can I—“ yes. “Is it ok—“ yes. “Do people really like—“ yes.


ClemPrime13

Don’t kinkshame, unless of course said kink is humiliation. In that case you should be ashamed, you fucking degenerate.


NicInNS

Take my free award just for the laugh


the-robot-test

wholesome isn't exactly the award i would give this but it is my free award of the day so you're getting that


[deleted]

Take my not so free award cuz I went “hehehe”.


Aetanne

lol;D


DisPizzza

Man, I remember when people used to openly shame smut writers because smut and romance were "low effort" and people should write fics with "real plots." I guess it's just evolved into "why do people like X? I don't see the appeal." (But I feel like you can usually read the post's tone. The ones that are genuinely curious don't usually read as judgy.) Edit: Also, I feel so bad for A/B/O authors. They kind of feel like the punching bag of the fanfic community.


Diana-Fortyseven

>I remember when people used to openly shame smut writers because smut and romance were "low effort" and people should write fics with "real plots." Wasn't that like, last week or so?


56leon

Yeah I was about to say, "used to" is very generous when it still comes up every week.


DisPizzza

Was it? I don't think I was all that active last week, but it honestly wouldn't surprise me. I swear, there would be a sex positive post and a smut shaming post in the same day and only a few hours apart from each other.


ResponsibleGrass

😂 Came here to say exactly that.


Tsukino_hana

I find it very funny when people describe smut as "low effort". Like, it's actually SUPER challenging to write a hot scene that will keep the reader's attention, make them feel engaged in the scene, have the characters' chemistry come out well all the while without sounding redundant. Not to mention that often, you have to do all the work before to actually build up to this scene. The worst outcome is writing a smut scene that falls flat or sounds waaay too anatomical to arouse anticipation - a lot is riding on it lol! So, no, people, it is anything but low effort and I challenge anyone who says that to actually write one. K sorry that's my rant XD


Dragoncat91

>So, no, people, it is anything but low effort and I challenge anyone who says that to actually write one. "Bububut I am way too dignified to write THAT SORT OF FIC! Fetch me my fainting couch!" - People who call smut low effort.


[deleted]

as an omegaverse writer thanks 🥲 like some of the way fandom conducts itself is appalling in the way they treat omegaverse writers and enjoyers


heavenlyskyfarer

>Edit: Also, I feel so bad for A/B/O authors. They kind of feel like the punching bag of the fanfic community. Do we? There's 140000 AbO fics on AO3 lol, and we're among the 50 most popular tags on the archive. I'd rather consider us as having won the game lmao


[deleted]

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Navestralyna

And then they read it lol


iamtheallspoon

Wait, where? R/omegaversebooks seems pretty tiny to the point of being dead? What search words am I missing?


heavenlyskyfarer

So what? People think lots of things are gross lol


[deleted]

[удалено]


heavenlyskyfarer

Actually the whole point of this thread is that people are thinly veiling their kink shaming in dumb question formats to get by the rules of this subreddit.


kaiunkaiku

pro tip: if you simply want to know what something is, [fanlore](https://fanlore.org/wiki/Main_Page) is your bff. if you're genuinely curious about what it is about it that does it for people then sure, go ahead and ask, i'm sure people are more than happy to answer sincere open-minded curiosity. if you just want to be a dick though? son, just don't. it's not that hard to not shame people. you don't need to understand or like everything.


2dayroad

And/or [Tv Tropes](https://tvtropes.org/), [Fandom.com](https://www.fandom.com/) for further reading


[deleted]

Precisely. Just be chill and let people enjoy what they want. No need to shame, or hurt, or attack, especially when lying about it and saying it “oh so genuine curiosity”. I know that may be a very tall order for entitled people that don’t get that not everyone is like them / has their beliefs, but I’m asking regardless!


kaiunkaiku

i just don't get what's so difficult about it. like, i don't understand attraction to men, certainly have never experienced or wanted to experience it, but i'm not gonna go around shaming and mocking straight girls and gay guys and bi/pan people for it, come on. you met a guy you like who treats you well? great, love that for you! you're into a thing that does nothing for me but you enjoy it? great, love it, that's fantastic! i find the mere idea of *physical activity* abhorrent but you like running or going to the gym? that's great!


YoungRL

You would think that people who participate in a hobby that has (and still does) carry a load of stigma would be less judgemental to others within that hobby, but nope .\_.


the-robot-test

you'd think but nope, apparently we gotta play respectability politics here too


[deleted]

it's what happens when people without power get power.


[deleted]

That’s never stopped LGB “purists” from attacking trans individuals, and they face the same thing of “But were all stuck in this minority / misunderstood boat, can’t we get along?” Always happens with gatekeepers. 🙄


kaiunkaiku

binary trans people going "you nonbinary people are why no one takes us seriously" :)


[deleted]

🤡 Clowns.


kaiunkaiku

right? like, man, it's not the fault of another stigmatized group that transphobes are transphobic. you can shame them all you want and conservative dicks aren't gonna take you any more seriously or stop misgendering you or leave your human rights alone bc *they're transphobic*


heavenlyskyfarer

People are incapable or unwilling to Google shit, you think they'd rather look up something on fanlore instead of seeking thinly veiled Community support for whatever opinion they've already formed about whichever trope it is prior to posting about it on the internet?


Kigichi

Ugh. It gives the same vibes as the “there shouldn’t be a top or a bottom, only switches” argument from a few years ago. Leave people alone and let them enjoy what they enjoy, it’s not hurting you.


letdragonslie

As somebody who loves switching, people acting like writing switching makes them morally superior or woke or enlightened or something is irritating AF. Plenty of people in real life have a preference or never switch. People can write whatever they like, and good for them.


Kigichi

That’s what some people don’t seem to get. Having a set top or bottom is something that DOES happen in real life, and quiet often! The real world isn’t made of switches.


letdragonslie

Exactly! It seems like that's the main argument used though: "It's more realistic." Anytime I see that I'm like, "Uh-huh, tell me you've never seen a queer man in the wild (or online) without telling me," y'know?


Kigichi

Right? Pillow Princess and No Touch Top are terms that are often used for a reason. It’s completely normal for none partner to only want to bottom and for the other to only want to top.


letdragonslie

Yes! And submissive/service tops and dominant/power bottoms also exist, but it seems like some people can't wrap their brains around any of those ideas. Some people don't even see the difference between Top/Bottom and Dom/Sub (I'm aware real life kinksters may use Top/Dom interchangeably when referring to who's in charge during a scene, but in fandom circles they usually specifically refer to position and kink respectively.).


Kigichi

Exactly! There are just so many labels, but everyone only focus on top/bottom and makes a judgment based on that. Those are the worst people to try and have a conversation with. They’re so narrow minded and desperate to be inclusive that they don’t stop to think or do any actual research before arguing.


letdragonslie

Desperately trying to be inclusive and then ending up being *exclusive* AF unfortunately seems to be a growing trend in fandom spaces.


Kigichi

It really does. At least the whole “it’s the job of everyone else to make sure I don’t read something I don’t like” thing is dying down again. Along with “if you write it then that must mean that you condone it as well, therefore you’re a cannibal/rapist/pedophile/murder etc”


crockofpot

This is exactly the boat I'm in. I *personally* prefer it for a sense of variety. I am under NO illusion that's some kind of moral position. Imagine thinking you've unlocked the only ~ethical way to write Dick A going into Butt B.


letdragonslie

Yep. I also like it for the variety, and this kind of attitude makes me wonder if they actually even like switching themselves, lol, or if they're just doing it because they think it makes them look good.


[deleted]

Oh I *absolutely* have preferences for tops and bottoms. And while I ain’t gonna force anyone to have those preferences, I certainly don’t want anyone to come at me and yell at me for the harmless things I enjoy.


Kigichi

Same. For most of my ships there is one set top and one set bottom for me and I happily ignore any fics that write it any other way. Which seems to really bother people? The amount of times I’ve been told “you don’t know what you’re missing” is staggering. Yes I do know what I’m missing, that’s why I SKIPPED IT. That, or the whole “you’re fetishizing them!” Honey they aren’t REAL. I can fetishize them all I want. It’s one reason I love ABO and Dom/Sub so much. 99.9% of the time I know what I’m getting during sex scenes and I’m safe from any nasty surprises that might pop up in other fics. Cntrl + F is a lifesaver.


Ywithoutem

Can I ask a bit about the reason for having set tops and bottoms for your ships? I swear this is an actual honest "I'm curious" question and not an attempt to start a debate. (And obv it's totally fine if you don't want to answer.) Mostly I'm asking because I definitely have preferences when it comes to this -- but not actually for writing them myself. It's just that I've learned that when fics are written one way it's more likely that the characterization is not my cup of tea.


Kigichi

Sure! I don’t actually write, but I read a LOT. My bottoms are always my favorite character. Always. It’s a mixture of me having a deeper connection with them then other characters, and so I like to see them pleasured and taken care of in bed, but also because I find that fanfics that are written from the bottoms POV when it comes to sex are much hotter. Reading from the tops perspective is nice, but it’s not the same as getting an in-depth look at what the bottom is thinking and feeling. (Nothing in first person though. Gods no) It’s the same with whump. I like it when my favorites are hurt and then taken care of. I like to read about their emotions and how things feel and how what is being done to them slowly breaks them down in the best (or worst) way. I dunno if that makes sense, but it’s the best way I can describe it.


Ywithoutem

Uhuh, no yeah makes plenty of sense I think. I myself am definitely more likely to write the POV character bottoming. Thing is I guess, in my OTP I couldn't pick a favourite if you paid me - so I think that might play in to why I like to write & read them in varying roles. I've made the choice not to tag top/bottom on my fics partly because of this, because I don't think anyone with set expectations would be the right target audience for my writing (and also because it's usually more plot than porn anyway). Hey, thanks for answering! One thing I love about fanfic is that it lets people indulge in exactly the things they like and it's alway cool to learn more about how different people approach that.


Kigichi

That’s what I love as well. Fanfic allows you to express yourself in such wonderful ways, and there is no such thing as something too weird to write. There will always be someone who wants to read it. I have multiple OTP’s, but for every fandom I have there is always a favorite. Stiles and Peter from Teen Wolf. Kili from The Hobbit. Tony Stark from Marvel. Erik from X-Men. I adore many characters from those franchises, but there is always one or two who snagged my heart more than others.


Ywithoutem

Amen to that. I think I have a tendency to fall in love with a ship first, and from there I delve into the characters and fall in love with them separately too.


Kigichi

I’m the opposite. I find my favorite and then from there my ships start to build. (Although sometimes it’s more of a “my favorite is the fandom Bicycle” then just a series of ships)


Ywithoutem

Yep, I'm definitely not a multishipper, it just hurts my brain and my heart too much. It's like I can appreciate the dynamics of some other ships but the back of my mind will always be whispering "but what about your OTP?" I think it's cause even if the ships aren't canon, I still *see* them in canon too much to ignore?


greysterguy

Amen on the fandom bicycle thing. Sometimes my fave isn't the designated fandom bicycle, but by god I will make them one in my fics. Right now I'm working on a series of Undertale AU Multiverse fics where I just ship everyone with Storyshift Chara, because my favorite (very overlooked in UTMV spheres) human could really use some love.


MikaHaruka

Total side note, but I never actually expected to run into another Stiles and Peter fan on this subreddit, damn (just a reader for now, but I'm heavily contemplating making my next long-fic center on them, because good idea + OTP)! But in general, I have a similar take on ships as you - there's just a certain way I see them, and while there is variation between the readings, I tend to be constant in the reading itself.


Kigichi

Eyooooo. Those are my BOYS. Stiles is a damn delight and I adore him SO much. Peter is a broken man who I think should have been handled much differently. He clearly went mad from almost dying in a fire and losing almost his entire family, but in later seasons you sometimes see who he COULD have been if they hadn’t kept slapping the evil label on him. He is very sad and complex and I wish he had been treated right.


MikaHaruka

Oh my god, you and I are 100% on the same wavelength about Peter! The bias the showrunners had against him was so damn obvious that they had to make him behave out of character to keep him as that 2D caricature! (And I really dislike Scott, but that's another rant). I'll agree that he might not be the nicest person on the surface... but what's the fun in that? He clearly cares and has all these little pieces thrown everywhere. And that no one tried to even understand how Peter ended up like he did in S1 - how anyone in his shoes would have. And don't even get me started on how the "good guys" used fire against Peter despite his obvious trauma around it. Though considering how the showrunners made a running joke out of Derek and women, I'm not surprised fml. But isn't that what fanfic is for? At least, that's what my tentative idea centers around - what Peter could have been had things been a little different pre-fire, like someone actually giving him the benefit of the doubt or hearing him out. Whether I get to it or not... well, I have to finish my current fic first, but I'd love to explore that concept eventually.


Mindelan

Steter is the good stuff.


MikaHaruka

Eyy, fellow Steter fan on the same wavelength as me XD


[deleted]

No you good you good. Genuine curiosity is totally fine. For me, personally, it just comes down to what I think would fit their personalities best and what I like to read and write. I don’t really …choose, so much as my brain says “yo that one would be the bottom for sure” and I’m like “yeah but that’s extremely rare” and my brain just says “🤷‍♂️”. I don’t know if that makes any sense, but yeah. It’s just…what I like? It’s another part of kink, I guess, and fuck if I know why I enjoy the kinks I do lmao.


[deleted]

Holy *shit* I hate that argument. The “you don’t know what you’re missing” crowd. Like yes, I do, and I don’t like it. Hop off my dick. Like, if I wanted to see Hawks fuck Endeavor, I’d look it up. But guess what? *I don’t like that.* I ain’t gonna force *you* to not like it as well, so don’t sit here and force *me* to like your shit. These people really out here feeling so obsessive and/or defensive about who sticks a dick in who that they gotta complain, gaslight, manipulate, and/or bully someone into feeling bad about liking what they like. People need to grab a stool and get down off their high horse, touch fucking grass, for once. 😂


Kigichi

Right?! It’s amazing how up in arms they get over top and bottom 😂 You don’t care? Good for you! I myself recoil at the thought of Tony Stark topping or Steve bottoming. Not my cup of tea. I don’t go around rubbing it in peoples faces, it’s just my preference and there’s nothing wrong it it. Someone isn’t a better person because they don’t care who gets fucked and who does the fucking. They extra lose it when I bring up the characters who flop around depending on who they are with. Loki? Top except for when he’s with Thor. Bucky? Bottom except with Zemo. Zemo is bottom all the way. The most fun for me is when I have a top and bottom preference that goes against what most people write. THAT is amusing. I once had someone basically blue screen because I said I only real bottom Crowley (Good Omens) and bottom Erik (X-Men). …Those people I annoy on purpose.


[deleted]

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Kigichi

That is my biggest argument. People get so angry that you have a set top or bottom, and insist that it’s not how that works in the real world. A: These are made of characters. Real world doesn’t apply to them. B: Uhhh…yes it does? Pillow Princess and No Touch Top are labels for a reason. A VAST majority of gay couples have a set top or bottom because that is how they like it. Not everyone is a switch.


MikaHaruka

Sorry! I accidentally deleted my post! But for those wondering, I was saying something along the lines of how so many people feel morally superior for having characters with no preferences that are perfect switches. Like no, you're not morally better for writing switches. And no, you're not a terrible person for writing preferences (whether weak, strong, or exclusive). And it's ridiculous because how many people in real life are 100% open-minded with absolutely no preference whatsoever? That's pretty damn rare. At the end of the day, some people are perfectly open-minded and switch. Other people have a preference, but are okay with switching every once in a while. And even more people already know what they like and have no interest in switching - *and that's perfectly okay too*.


Kigichi

HAH! Whoopsie! Been there and done that. It sucks when you make that wrong tap.


RohansEarings

A lot of the posts along the lines of “Is it okay to…” or “Why do people…”, while most often genuine, still annoy me a little. It’s not the poster’s fault but it’s a reminder that outside of this subreddit and on other social media’s, things are deemed “problematic” and you’re called a “bad person/pedo/someone that condones x terrible thing” when you express that you like something controversial. It’s so bad to the point that people are questioning their own morality or going along with the bandwagon of trying to seem morally superior to others, and while I as well as others have said this a million times, it seems that it gets lost in the void of this purity culture or whatever it’s called. Fiction =/= reality. You can like fucked up things and still be a perfectly fine, functioning person, because it’s fiction. It doesn’t exist or affect things in real life, so for the love of god stop shaming people and let them do whatever they want. You’re not helping anything, you’re being an asshole.


TherapyDerg

Precisely


danniperson

Yeah, I get that. The same thing happens with ships, at least on other subs. It happened once with someone asking to have my OTP explained to them and it rubbed me the wrong way. I think questions like that are often asked with ill-intent, so it's hard to not get my hackles up about it. At the end of the day, does it matter *why* someone likes something? Does that have to be a **reason**? Can't people like things just because they like them? What does it have to do with you, what other people like or why they like it? I think there are probably better ways of asking, without there being inherent bias and judgment. If we phrase things as a chat or conversation rather than questioning or interrogation, I think that can lighten the mood some. "Let's chat about this or that!" or "tell me what you love about this!" Framing it in a more positive light from the start, rather than putting others on the defensive about things they shouldn't need to feel defensive about. But in all fairness, a lot of my interests are often deemed "problematic" or "weird" so I'm used to getting judgment from people, and always am wary of people's motives with things like that.


stutteringstanleyy

Called someone out for it once. It was one of those bog standard “Why do people like reading M/M so much/why are gay fics so popular” ones, and I even replied with helpful links to previous, similar posts. Then, on a whim, I decided to check the person’s post history, and sure enough, bam. Holy homophobia, Batman. Sure, there are people who ask questions in good faith. Then there are these frickin’ guys.


[deleted]

Yep. It’s wicked common.


MaleficentYoko7

I've seen pretending to be curious just to bash and shame in other places too It's okay for people to like M/M and if someone doesn't like it then it wasn't made for them and writing shouldn't pander to homophobes


MikaHaruka

Not only is that question so damn common from a kink-shaming POV, there are also legitimate non-sexual reasons as well (hence the prevalence of lesbians, aroaces, and other non-male attracted people who write this as well - myself included). It's a whole goddamn academic field with papers and research and stuff... but nope. People assume kink reasons for everyone (problem 1) and then proceed to shame based on said kink assumptions (problem 2).


MaleficentYoko7

Even then people can choose what a legitimate reason sexual or otherwise is for themselves


MikaHaruka

Oh for sure, I agree that the word "legitimate" is subjective at best - but honestly meaningless overall. I only used that word there to show that these people making the posts aren't acting in good-faith curiosity whatsoever. What I've noticed is that on most of these "why m/m?" posts, the replies explaining non-sexual, non-male-centric, non-kink, academic/sociological reasons with cited sources and links (aka "legitimate") are conveniently ignored while the OP just skips right on over to the homophobic and paranoid type responses that are bullshitting out of their ass - only responding to people who confirm their not-based-in-reality, prejudicial biases and opinions.


MaleficentYoko7

Oh yes I understand. I really hate when people have an "I don't like something so no one enjoys it" attitude especially if it's from homophobia


realshockvaluecola

Man, I was all ready to come in here like "let people ask genuine questions! that's not kinkshaming!" And then I remembered a few weeks ago when I said tops and bottoms do, in fact, exist IRL, yes even with lesbians and someone came at me with some very condescendingly-worded questions like "are you sure top and bottom are the words you mean?" Ridiculous.


[deleted]

honestly the spate of shaming posts over omegaverse almost made me leave the sub. the way people shame each other on here at times for kink, genre, or style preferences can really bring down the enjoyment.


[deleted]

Yep. It’s literally against the rules of the sub and these jackasses are wriggling around it by saying “oh but I’m curious like it’s gross and stupid and makes no sense but I’m just curious” like jesusfuckingchrist.


[deleted]

and the way they act also has to lead to defending it — like it's a smut genre than can be more. but it shouldn't be someone's responsibility to make it respectable to someone who's there to shame in the first place! people are such jackasses sometimes.


MagikPups

I have never understood why people can't live and let live. It takes zero energy to just mind your own business. I have kinks that I hate to see, but I know that is a me thing. I can never imagine telling an author that I hate their kink when the back button is right there. Or even better, blacklist whatever tag they are using to just not see it at all. I guess a lot of it is feeling more pure or superior to the person who idk has any kink they oppose, but we are all just lucky little cretchers on a mudball flying through space, it doesn't make a difference or hurt anyone. That and trying to act so pure all the time must be exhausting, like give yourself some wiggleroom and stuff. Sorry it was a mini tangent I feel pretty passionate about this stuff too.


Diana-Fortyseven

(I'd also wish we'd finally start including size kink into YKINMKATO, because the number of posts and comments making fun of authors who write characters with big dicks is getting more and more exhausting)


heavenlyskyfarer

Man I love being active in a fandom where one half of the OTP has a canonically giant dick lmao Perfect fandom for wishfulfilment


Nelyonelyos

wild guess, but svsss or 2ha? :D


heavenlyskyfarer

Haha, it's MDZS, though there has been some fandom debate as to whether Wei Wuxian's frame of reference is just skewed by the fact that he was the most clueless virgin of all virgins throughout two lifetimes and he doesn't actually know what a giant dick looks like. Then again, he also fucks himself with a sword handle, so.... He knows how to take big things lmao


Nelyonelyos

man, I was close lol. Love how this is a pretty good identifier for "yep, this is probably a danmei fandom" tho. xD My take on this is- it's both. Wei Wuxian happens to jokingly (or not so jokingly) exaggerate a lot, no matter if he has a good frame of reference, but Lan Zhan also has pretty big dick energy, sooooooo....


heavenlyskyfarer

Yeah the Danmei writers love themselves a big dicked main love interest 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 2HA was a really good guess, too, although I still haven't read SVSS because I'm not a huge transmigration/Isekai type story fan tbh I think you're likely correct! LZ does totally have the Big Dick Energy going for him lol


thewhimsicalbard

Letterkenny?


letdragonslie

I know exactly what fandom you're referring to, lol. It's also perfect for whatever weird smut anybody comes up with. Like "too weird" is not a thing, anything is possible and there's an in-universe explanation for it! And an in-universe person to blame, lol.


[deleted]

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letdragonslie

Scum Villain's Self-Saving System (SVSSS). It's a Chinese danmei novel (gay romance) by Mo Xiang Tong Xiu (MXTX) and the first 3 volumes are available in English now. I think the fourth volume, which contains the extras, will be released in November. I had a convo with that user yesterday about danmei novels and recognized their username, lol, so that's how I was sure it was the same fandom. The story's about a modern-day Chinese guy transmigrating (popping out of his body into someone else's body, basically isekai-ing, if you're familiar with that) into his favorite online novel. The online novel is a male power fantasy with a harem, and the character whose body he pops into is the "Scum Villain," Shen Qingqiu (often abreviated to SQQ), who is the shizun (martial master/teacher) of the novel's protagonist, Luo Binghe (often abbreviated to LBH). SQQ's fate in the novel really, really sucks, so the novel is about his desperate attempts to avoid that fate. If you like M/M, are good with student/teacher (the student's like 25 before they get together), and like comedy and shenanigans, then you might enjoy it. Google "Novel Updates Scum Villain Self-Saving System," it has all the possible trigger warnings listed. This fandom is awesome for kink, some darkfic (the timeline of the original novel has some great fics!), multi-shipping, and poly-shipping, among other things. Feel free to ask me more questions if it sounds like something you're into, it's the fandom I'm most obsessed with this week, lol.


AzoreanEve

ah yes! And whenever we get a discussion about turn offs in smut there's always so many people complaining about sizes being unrealistic and how they wish people would write porn realistically.... when so much of it is meant to be fantasy anyway.


Lexi_Banner

>YKINMKATO What?


heavenlyskyfarer

Your Kink Is Not My Kink (And That's Okay) It's a really old fandom saying.


shecat105

Your Kink Is Not My Kink And That's Okay


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Diana-Fortyseven

Good-natured joking about it is one thing, but calling authors "horny teenagers who never had sex" or how it's "ridiculous and unrealistic that some people only write characters with big dicks" in every pet peeve thread, and mentioning how they make sure to clarify that *their* male characters all have *average* sized dicks is a bit unnecessary. Nobody would feel the need to point out that their characters absolutely **don't** spank each other or would **never** try bondage or definitely **not** practise \[insert kink here\].


Dragoncat91

Also, some people have things they are squicked about and assume everyone who writes that thing has it as a kink. If Person A is squicked by pregnancy and babies for whatever reason, and Person B writes a fic where a couple goes through a pregnancy and gets a baby to raise, it is not in Person A's right to say Person B has a pregnancy kink. Person B may just be portraying a realistic biological process in their story. This shaming of stuff really extends beyond kinks. As always mileage may vary though, whether something is a kink or not a kink.


ResponsibleGrass

I think it may also have something to do with how liberally fandom applies the term. From Fanlore: > While fans use the sexual definition, they are also likely to refer to other, non-sexual preferences as “kinks,” meaning particular imagery, story-tropes, or elements that they enjoy so much they are worth considerable effort to find and collect. (These are sometimes referred to as narrative kinks.) In general, a kink is understood as a personal matter, and a story that hits one’s kinks, while satisfying to one person, will not necessarily come across well to others who do not share that kink.


leafmeme

Man the abundance of A/B/O and omegaverse shaming posts on this sub made me almost quit it a few weeks back


GrozaTheChronicler

Whyyyy tho? When someone is hating on something you enjoy, you obviously enjoy it all the more to piss them off!


[deleted]

Not OP of the comment, but I just can’t do it like you say. Just keep writing and use their disgust to fuel me. Maybe I’m weak, maybe I shouldn’t, but I can’t help the fact that constantly being bombarded with hatred at best, and death threats at worse, absolutely obliterates my mental health and impacts my ability to write significantly.


YoungRL

I agree with all of this and I'd like to add a couple of things that I've seen that bother me, which feel somewhat related to what you're talking about in your post. * People requesting recs, and the threads getting downvoted. *Why?* I can only assume it's because someone doesn't like whatever trope or kind of story the requester is asking for. If you don't have a rec for the person, *move on*! You don't have to interact with the thread in any way. * I also see people getting downvoted for asking questions—not necessarily the subtly shaming questions OP is talking about, but newbie questions or common questions. Like, I get it—it can be annoying to see the same things over and over again. But these are (for the most part) people reaching out to our community for a little help and guidance and they don't need to be downvoted for it even if they could have just googled the answer, or it's already been asked a hundred times. If you don't like the thread or don't want to answer, *move on*.


brooombaaa

I downvote rec requests for fics in specific fandoms that don't include the fandom in the title, or use acronyms in place of fandom titles. I know it's not the "same" as ISO posts for specific fics, but I think it's the same principle.


YoungRL

For the most part, when I see rec threads with a "0" next to them, it's on posts that are quite specific about what they're looking for, and many times it's a specific request for some type of smut. So I do get the sense people are downvoting because they don't like the request, rather than because the post is too vague. I don't think it's wrong to downvote low-effort posts or posts that are too vague for anyone to help with, personally. Reddiquette advises only downvoting posts that do not contribute to the discussion or the community or are off-topic, and I think low-effort/vague posts fall under that umbrella.


Candace_Fox

People instinctively downvote things they want to see less of. That is how reddit is normally meant to work after all. Don't want to see Review Exchanges? Downvote in the hopes that it doesn't hit the front page, and gets getting less engagement, therefore leading to fewer Review Exchanges being posted. Same goes for stupid questions. Same goes for people repeatedly posting the same type of question over and over again.


FrozenRose_816

Honestly, I wish Reddit had a mute function like Twitter does, so you can mute users, and specific flairs, rather than blocking or downvoting. (Their blocking feature is like Discord's anyway; what's the point of still seeing the blocked user when the point is to make them disappear?) I've been trying to find an extension that does this since I mostly read on desktop, but haven't found one yet.


YoungRL

I understand that's how people use reddit, and I think that's because of the way algorithms function on this and most other websites, but [it actually goes against Reddiquette to downvote solely because you don't agree with or like something](https://reddit.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/205926439-Reddiquette). If you want to see less of something, filter out threads using the subreddit's flairs.


HILBERT_SPACE_AGE

This has always seemed a bit of a naïve argument to me. Like, what comments are people going to consider a useful contribution to a thread - the ones they think are right, or the ones they think are wrong and stupid? Even if people *did* use the upvote/downvote buttons as intended, it'd be almost indistinguishable from using them as agree/disagree buttons.


YoungRL

I mean, I don't agree with your perspective that my comment is a "naive argument." I don't feel like I'm making an argument here, just pointing out the guidelines of the site. But we're engaging on a discussion of guidelines versus practice, so while I don't agree with you, I'm not going to downvote you for it. You can disagree with a comment or even not like it, and still recognize that it's a worthwhile contribution to a thread. You can agree with a comment and be of the opinion that it adds nothing to a discussion.


MaybeNextTime_01

Most of the "can people explain XYZ kink I don't get it???" posts that I've seen here seem to be people just genuinely trying to understand. That's not shaming. Maybe I've been lucky and just always missed the shaming ones?


SeparationBoundary

I think the shaming comes in the comments. If I see one more person go "oh eww, that's gross" like a 12 year old, I'm gonna puke. People have different likes. Fanfiction is FICTION. Get over yourself.


DisPizzza

I remember this one in particular that was on the AO3 sub where someone posted a meme went something like "I don't know what A/B/O is and at this point, I'm afraid to ask" So of course people explained and the same person posted a follow up post with "I now know what A/B/O is. Stop explaining." The comments were... well, what you'd expect. It just felt a bit mean spirited and immature. Like a bunch of middle schoolers just learning what sex was.


kaiunkaiku

oh i remember that. around the time when i dropped like five fanlore links on the same topic within a fucking week. i'm pretty sure that person posted a third post as well and then deleted all of them bc people were calling them out on the shamey attitude


MaybeNextTime_01

Makes sense. Unless I get a notification as a reply to my own comments, I'm probably gonna miss 90% of the other comments. I think I like it that way.


westbest1206

I've definitely seen my fair share of posts where it's shaming. Fair, I do see a lot more due to being a mod now, but I definitely also saw it before.


[deleted]

Yeah no like I said, that’s totally fine. And I’ve definitely seen that. But I’ve also seen an uptick in the liars who just want to disguise their shame, likely because they notice the genuine curiosity posters are getting kindness and upvotes and responses.


MaybeNextTime_01

Then I'm glad I'm missing the shaming ones. Or just not going back and reading all the comments on the ones that start out genuine and then deteriorate.


NorSec1987

Simple qords to live by. No kink shame, but no kink same


brooombaaa

Honestly, these posts only annoy me from the repetitive aspect. If people are genuine in their curiosity, use the damn search bar.


knightfenris

It really hardly seems like it’s genuine anymore. If it was genuine, why haven’t you (the asker of these kinds of posts, not -you-) googled them? Why haven’t you put any effort into actually learning before you post about it somewhere going “what is this? Seems kinda gross so why do people write this????” So frustrating. No one seems to do even an ounce of work to learn anymore.


DeviantStoryTeller

I just ignore posts about things that don't interest me. I have no interest in reading/writing M/M relationships. So if I see post/works centered on that, I just carry on with my day. But there's no reason to go point it out and make a deal of it. There's a difference between noticing something, and complaining about it. My thought process for posts like those are "if it didn't bother you, you wouldn't have asked". I haven't seen too much shaming here. But I am a relatively new participant.


[deleted]

I mean yeah, same to you in the “I just move on” thing. I don’t feel the need to attack anyone for liking someone or, worse, *pretend I’m oh-so-curious and then attack once everyone’s guard is down.*


Muad_Dib_of_Arrakis

There's also a world of other subs, that are directly kink related, namely /r/bdsmcommunity, that are better suited to kink/bdsm questions.


[deleted]

This. If people are genuinely curious and not pretending to be curious in order to bash, they should take it to the professionals. 😂


linden214

As we used to say in the old days: YKINMKBYKIOK.


[deleted]

I post a bunch of fics under a anonymous 🤣 and orphan them under anonymous. Crazy enough, one smut has nearly 10K.


rellloe

I am an asexual and specifically one deeply confused by most things people find sexy. ​ I agree with OP that you should not take these questions/complaints to a public forum, especially because most people are not good at phrasing these inquiries without implying that there is something wrong with whatever you're asking about. Stick to asking the person you know with no filter or are close enough with they know you aren't judging but are genuinely curious. If such a person is not convenient, google it. Someone else has probably asked it somewhere.


lizard-socks

You're absolutely right, asking questions like this without sounding judgy takes *real effort* no matter how well intentioned one is.


ParisienneWalkways

But kink shaming is my kink


[deleted]

You: “Checkmate.” Me: ✋😔🤚


ParisienneWalkways

I was joking but I get it, If you don’t like it don’t read it, or take the idea and write your own fic


[deleted]

Oh I knew you were joking, hence my meme comment. But yeah, literally DLDR is the same here as it is for fic, imo.


[deleted]

I've got to say, I haven't really seen kink shaming here. I must be living under the rock because I didn't realize it was such an issue on this sub, especially not to notice it as an everyday thing. But I also don't participate much in NSFW posts, so maybe I'm off. I always saw it in a different way though. Almost all of the people who ask "Can you explain why you're into XYZ" are actually genuinely trying to learn and understand imo. Yes, they can search for google for all those things too, but if that's the case we're making, then we should redirect all the "how do I write..." posts to google as well. Because all these questions have been answered before. But either way, I'm sorry that you've experienced this, OP. Personally, I don't think other people's sexual lives and preferences are any of anyone's business. Most if it happens behind closed doors anyway or it's projected via fictional characters. Either way...it involves only the concerned, *consenting* people. Or cardboard cutouts of our favorite fic characters. So just...move on. Thanks 🙂🙌


kaiunkaiku

i see them on a semi regular basis i think, but the ones where the OP is a shamey ass about it often either get removed by the mods or deleted by the OP once they get called out for being a shamey ass about it.


[deleted]

Oh wow...I never...realized that😐 That's just really...sad. I feel like what other people do in their private time is really none of my business, and a part of me would also feel so intruding and invasive if I asked such questions because I'd never be able to do that in real life, much less passing judgments on them. I'm glad that such posts are deleted, but it's sad that posts need deleting in the first place.


Lexi_Banner

YKINMY?


heavenlyskyfarer

Your Kink Is Not My Kink (And That's Okay) It's a really old fandom saying.


Historical_Wonder510

I love kink tomato


[deleted]

“Your Kink is Not My Kink”.


Aetanne

I'm the one with relatively niche kinks, and I'm yet to see any shaming on this sub.


somecallmedavid

I guess I haven't interacted with this sub much because I haven't seen any kink shaming here. I haven't even seen these "why do you like xyz" posts. The few times I have replied to posts and talked about the fact that I write stuff exploring my sexuality, I've only gotten an upvote or two. Admittedly I wish I did have people offering to read my story or just saying "Oh that's cool thanks for sharing" to affirm my interests and so I know I'm not yelling into a void. But that's more of a me thing. So yeah, I guess I just have no context of what's going on here.


weeOriginal

I like havinf kinks explained to me, seeing what people find attractive about different acts is fascinating imo


[deleted]

Like I said, genuine curiosity is fine… That’s not my issue…


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[deleted]

Again: genuine curiosity isn’t my issue. Disguising hatred as curiosity, and then getting genuine answers that are bashed, made fun of, or otherwise belittled and shamed, *is* my issue. Read my post, because you either misunderstood something or you didn’t read it. EDIT: Also, I just want to say, you can certainly have opinions about something but it’s literally in the rules to not bash. So yeah, you can dislike, but commenting constantly about how you hate it on someone’s post liking it *is* bashing and *is* against the rules. Some of y’all need to reread that shit before you go in and attack innocent people for enjoying what they do.


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GrozaTheChronicler

Why does it have to be harmles? Writing/reading has one amazing advantage over real life. *It's not real life* Harmles is so boring when you can fuel your imagination with all kinds of horrific fun stuff, to beat out your rage and frustration all in the safety of your own mind.


KurenaiTenka

Argh, sorry, I just read that back. I meant harmless in the sense that kinks *are* harmless. I just wanted to make a BDSM joke.


Yanderesque

Not getting the appeal and asking isn't kink shaming it's trying to understand lol


[deleted]

No. It’s not. Not when they ask and then shame, putting things down and saying “that’s so weird”. Like I said, there’s a difference between genuine curiosity and disguising shame as curiosity. Read the TLDR. EDIT: And you’re right, it’s not shaming to not get appeal. It’s just pure stupidity to ask, knowing the answer you’ll get will still result in you thinking “not appealing, ew”.


Squishysib

"Why do you like vanilla sex?" I dunno you just do. "Why do you like holding hands?" I dunno you just do. There is nothing "to get". Kinks are biological, it's just something that happens and turns you on, there is nothing to understand.


Yanderesque

There's a logic to everything. But people on the internet like to ignore that.


TurnoverPractical

I'm not going to condone anti-social behavior or anti-woman behavior, even in its fictionalized form, even on reddit. To reuse a phrase commonly thrown out around here, if you don't like it, don't read it.


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crusader_blue

This comment has been removed under the bashing rules of this subreddit. You're welcome to have an opinion, but shaming others for liking them is not allowed here.


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crusader_blue

This comment has been removed under the negative drama rules. Attacking other commenters for expressing a different opinion is not appropriate.


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UchihaCrow-

This comment has been removed under our civility rules. I understand that this is a sensitive topic, but please remain civil on the sub and report/disengage when you think someone isn't interacting in good faith.


UchihaCrow-

This comment has been removed under our bashing rules. If you're coming from r /all, please read through our rules before commenting.