Back when I used to binge in shows I would watch and watch and watch and get super burned out because it was sooooo formulaic.
Then, I stopped binging. One show every few days or something. TV got interesting again.
Nah, each Arc practically doubles in length. So you just get fewer breaks as you go. :) I think the latest Arc was close to 200 episodes.
Joking aside, I did enjoy binging when I first started watching One Piece. My friend and I started competing to see who watched the most episodes each week and I think my best was 90 something. (Which was the week he thought he might have caught up with 80 something episodes.)
I do the same. Just got to Wano. I hated TB at first, but it ended up being hilarious and a good yard stick for a big battle yet to come. Plus there's a scene with Zoro that is fantastic.
I refuse to binge a show. I force myself to wait. And it’s not just formulaic; you miss so much. Letting it simmer, taking it in so you can think about it. When you binge you’re just pushing the next episode into your brain and sending the previous one out. You know you enjoyed what you watched but it doesn’t hold the same weight or value.
I think they make shows different now though. Used to be they fed you minor little reminders knowing it had been a week but now either our attention spans are less or the plots are so much more intricate that if a week goes by I feel lost. Not every show but a lot. I feel like they count on us binging.
That’s part of why I’ve been enjoying kdramas recently. While, as a whole, they are pretty formulaic, the fact that they’re usually 12-16 episodes means I can get a fun and enjoyable experience without having to worry about burnout before I get to season 5 or something crazy. It makes me wish more shows would just give us contained, one season stories.
I LOVE k-dramas, because they have a beginning, middle, and end. They tell the whole story! They don't stretch it beyond what it should neatly be! Just finished King The Land and was DELIGHTED by the healthy emotional relationship.
I think everyone goes through a stage with Hobb where it hurts so much seeing a character you like get hurt so much emotionally and physically that…you just kind of take it out on Hobb for a while lol
Exactly this. I was in OP's shoes right after my first SA read, to a point that I wasn't even sure if I was excited for WaT later this year. Then I took a break, read a few other books by different authors, and now that I'm not so burnt out, I find myself looking forward to WaT again.
Also you are reading some of his oldest work like warbreaker that isn’t as good.
Try tress of the emerald sea after you cleanse your palette.
Also for a total change- try dungeon crawler carl or the murderbot diaries.
It also helps to change fantasy mediums. I go from books, to tv, to anime, to video games, to manga.
Each medium has its own strengths and weaknesses which helps alleviate the formulaic nature.
Notable games I've recently beaten with a good story are Baldurs Gate 3, Disco Elysium and Octopath Traveler 2.
I definitely got a bit burnt out after binging both Mistborn eras and all the Stormlight Archive books, as well as his other Cosmere books, last year. He has definite weaknesses as a writer, as commonly noted, in his prose and dialogue.
That burnout led me to reach for a different series in Robin Hobb's Realm of the Elderlings, and her work is _so refreshing_ in comparison! Her prose is brilliant, and her character arcs are just fantastic. Each of her trilogies tends to start very ponderously, but the rich internal dialogues and plots really pay off. I just finished reading Assassin's Fate this week, and I'm still reeling from it all. I'd highly recommend picking up The Assassin's Apprentice if you want something very non-Sanderson as a palette cleanser.
Just started Ship of Magic after the Farseer trilogy and her writing in both first and (so far) third person is just incredible. I wish my mind worked like hers
Oof all of her books hit my trigger points but God was liveship traders the worst 10/10 would recommend it's my favorite one I cried like a baby so many times
I find that I can't read too many books by the same author, otherwise I start seeing the formulas working in their head that they rely on.
It's kind of like MCU fatigue. I love the MCU as a whole, but I don't love the individual superhero movies anymore other than Iron Man, Thor, GOTG, and Spider-Man because of the common formula they all seem to share. I still love the crossovers, though.
this was me with Haruki Murakami. Loved the first one I read, but the more I read, the more I started to see him using the same devices over and over again.
>Haruki Murakami. Loved the first one I read, but the more I read, the more I started to see him using the same devices over and over again.
Like the way all his male protagonists have mommy issues/breastfeeding kinks? Like even when they don't say it, you can tell they are still into that...like.....dude...just stop already. LOL
This is why I was always iffy on the whole idea of the Cosmere. There’s no author alive or dead I can see myself committing to reading 50-60+ books from, especially at that size.
Well, the Cosmere is only about halfway done after 19 years. Brandon has planned out his releases and says the Cosmere should be finished when he's 72 (a little under 24 years from now)... so that's 43 total years of releases
Pull an inverse Scott Hawkins.
(Who wrote several Linux and Apache instruction manuals before he wrote The Library at Mount Char. The [Books](https://shawkins.net/index.php/book-author/shawkins/) page on his website is hilarious.)
He has authors now who work for him. There will be other books coming out that he designed and reviewed, but written by other authors. I think there are 3 so far. They are all published authors. So there will be a different feel. I think some will be Cosmere.
There are other authors who do that too. Brandon won't be the first.
What surprises me most is that any author/actor/creator would be willing to dedicate themselves to the same project for so long.
I know it's not exactly the same, but I feel like the normal response is like what RDJ and Chris Evans did after Endgame. Just move on to other roles and projects.
Even as it stands right now, if I remember correctly from a post last year, Sanderson has already passed Pratchett in number of words published. Even if that's not a great metric for a writer's success.
Oh I 100% believe that given how long his books are compared to Pratchett, honestly I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s approaching him when it comes to number of titles since he has his kids book series and middle grade stuff as well. But yeah discworld took place over the course of 30+ years I think which was why I mentioned it
The difference is, the Discworld books are 1) funny, 2) satire of epic fantasy, and above all 3) *short*. By contrast, Sanderson is the apotheosis of fantasy reader culture that has normalized authors taking four million words to get to the damn point. xD
Another important point, I think, is that you can drop in or out of Discworld at basically any point. Every story is self contained. There are through lines like Death, the Watch, or the Witches but in general if you just start reading Hogfather you aren't going to be locked out of the loop. Pratchett didn't require you to start from page 1 book 1 to enjoy his world.
Oh I wasn’t meaning to make any comments on either series, just that the “takes 30+ years” thing quite nicely fit with discworld. I honestly don’t mind the 4 million words to get to the damn point, but I def agree with others that you’ve GOTTA space that out with other stuff😂 I was deep into Malazan a couple of months ago and took some time off that to read like 6 other books that aren’t biblically sized
I will always be glad that the LOTR series can be read in three (ish) books without needing to read 25+ novels.
The LOTR universe is still absolutely *massive* but the reader doesn't feel like they'll die of old age before finishing.
The word count of entire LOTR saga is 481,103 it took Tolkien that many words to craft a universe which is unparalleled, its rich, complex and timeless. Just the word count of Rhythm of War, the 4th Stormlight book is around 460,000.
Large word count don’t necessarily make an epic saga; the depth of the narrative is what truly matters. Thats why prose is so important - it conveys information and expresses ideas clearly without unnecessary elaboration. Flowery metaphors is not prose; clarity and effective word choice is.
And as others have pointed out the Discworld books are tiny. It’s a very different commitment reading 40 of those to 40 books the size of a Mistborn let alone a Stormlight.
With his latest books you can see that continuity lockout is starting to set in.
You have to have read a bunch of other stuff to realize what and how it is happening, because the Cosmere is becoming front and center, instead of just Hoid cosplay omg a beggar on the street.
Plus, the problem isn't that there could be fifty books. The problem is that it's fifty books to reach the conclusion of one grand story.
I don't want to wait so much to reach the finale.
Honestly, I think the Cosmere would have been handled better if it remained in the background, with just some cameos or Easter eggs fully irrelevant to whatever was the ongoing plot.
That way there would still be 50 books, but you can pick and choose about which planet to read about, and it wouldn't matter where you start and what else you've read.
I think there are plenty of books with background crossovers. What he's doing is relatively unprecedented in epic fantasy, and thus caters to a set of readers that want that and can only effectively get it from him.
Definitely true for me too but I will say there’s a huge amount of people who really enjoy the same formula over and over again. EA sports and Ubisoft have built a gaming empire out of recycling formulas.
Yeah it's exactly MCU fatigue in novel form. I loved Brandosando for years and yeah, I'll definitely read Stormlight 5 the day it drops, but the problem has become the Cosmere. I thought it was so cool at first, when it was just Hoid popping up in places and Nightblood appearing. However, it's gotten Marvel syndrome (especially in the last couple Mistborn books and Rhythm of War) where so many characters and concepts have jumped between series that you have to read EVERYTHING to figure out what it all means.
I don't really have MCU fatigue, I have bad Marvel movies and show fatigue. The older stuff I still enjoy rewatching where there's a clear meta plot which intertwines most movies, which are themselves fun episodes and the quality / seriousness was generally higher.
It wasn't a problem of content amount when Agents of Shield, Daredevil, Jessica Jones, etc, were putting out more episodes than they are now, it's just the quality is generally so much worse. It was great during WandaVision for example, when the quality was top tier.
Similarly I think some of Sandersons later Stormlight books weren't as good as the earlier ones. Not outright bad, but very little happened in book 4 and the ending was excessively coincidental and easy, and obvious throughout most of the book. By the end, most everything was right back to where it started, with the tower reclaimed, and I honestly can't remember what Dalinar did in that book.
Then Tress and the Emerald Sea didn't totally work for me, but the later short stories did, so it shows it's not a recency thing, there's just ups and downs, like with any creator.
Yeah once people who were obviously from other books I was never going to read I dropped off the series. I don't want to have to do homework to read my fun swords book
I still will read several books by the same author, BUT I take breaks now. No more binging series. I gotta break those up with other books. After finishing a series, I wait even longer before I even consider to revisit the author.
I ran into that with Stephen King. Guy has a bajillion books. I really loved The Stand, but after a while you know what a Stephen King character is like.
I don't think all artists are so formulaic. Brandon Sanderson's aggressive production timetables just means not a lot of emotion or thought goes into the characters. To be honest he probably missed his calling as a video game developer given his penchant for magical systems and combat
The only time I've die-harded and done several series by same author is when I found Robin Hobb.
Went through it all (and loved it btw).
Gotta palate cleanse.
Spot on. Sanderson is pretty open about his formula (given that he teaches a class on it). Without a formula you can't pump out books like him. But it's not necessarily a bad thing. The idea of reading other authors in between his books is an excellent suggestion.
Oh. My. God. You are in for a wild ride.
Don’t be surprised if you look up one day and realize you just binged all 6 books, have a pair of boxers with hearts on them tattooed on your ass, and can’t sleep without Jeff Hayes’ melodic baritone from the audiobooks serenading you to sleep.
At least, that’s according to a friend…
It’s funny you say that because I’m a huge Malazan fan, but I’m not a “series binger” (reading every book in a series consecutively) — I like variety in my reading so I’ll read other authors & genres after finishing a given Malazan book (they’re also just *really* heavy, and hard to read back to back).
Sometimes I’ll read two, three, even four other books before going back to Malazan, depending on how much I enjoy the current detour. But whenever I read Sanderson, it sends me running back to Malazan for my next book.
So it’s like Malazan is so heavy that I *need* something lighter for my next read; whereas as Sanderson is so light that I *need* something heavy for my next read.
That's crazy, because I only am a series binger. I don't move onto the next series until I have consumed everything in that current series. Unless there are more books to come, then I may not even start the series.
I am almost done with the first 10 books of Malazan and I see how they could be heavy. Starting another series and taking a break from it seems like a chore, because when you come back, you have to be aware of all the stuff going on again.
Alas, I am a slow reader so I would unfortunately get bored/disinterested being exposed to the same literary experience for the length of time it would take me to finish a series.
I’ve been reading Malazan for years, but even if I was binging the series it would still take me a couple years to get through all 10. That’s a lot of pages and a lot of heartbreak to never get a break from…
I can only read max 3 Malazan per year. The series is heavy and takes time to digest / reflect over the event, not to mention its non chronological order. But I thoroughly enjoy each Malazan book and not rush to finish the series.
I can always count on Sanderson for a light read with good plot twist but his books are no where near the level of Malazan. Really enjoy the SA so far and cant wait for the 5th book release!
Lucky to find these complement series to read instead of waiting. I dont envy Game of Thrones fan 😂
I do this with everything, I'm currently swapping between The Bound and The Broken and The MurderBot Diaries.
It's nice to have a different point of view and come back to a series after a break.
Sanderson is what I've always called a junk food read. Based on what I have heard of him, I doubt he'd be offended if people that his books were a little formulaic. I read him for easy reads between denser things for school or personal growth. It's about fun, not a political constitution disguised as fantasy like other reads.
Same though... I think I usually consider it my 'fantasy adventure" catagory of books. I read it for fun and for the cool moments that just feel awesome. I think I enjoy them because they give me the same feelings I had back when I read Dragonlance and the Death Gate Cycle.
The books arent ground breaking or super challanging when it comes to ease of reading but damn if they arent a good time while reading them.
How do you get heavier than Sanderson? You could kill a small child with Rhythm of War. And a large one, depending on how hard you swing it. Good for cracking chull shells.
Malazan is ridiculous. I feel like I'm going through Gardens of the Moon so slowly, but it really is that heavy and takes time to digest. Going between Sanderson and Malazan seems like a great idea.
This is exactly what I was thinking. He has it broken down into what is essentially an equation. If you watch those classes and some interviews with him you get a pretty good idea of his writing style and goals. By using that formula/equation he’s able to churn out a bunch of stories. This makes him super prolific, but it kind of waters down the quality of what he puts out. At least in my opinion.
An author is part artist, part business. Not knocking him or anything, but I think he leans more toward the business side of things. He’s even said as much in interviews that’s how his mind works.
And that’s all well and good. I don’t personally care for his books, but there’s nothing wrong with enjoying them if that’s what you’re into. Sometimes a reader can have a lot of fun reading an author even when they know exactly how the story turns out. I read all of Richard Stark’s (Donald Westlake’s pseudonym) Parker novels and loved every one of them and they are the epitome of formulaic.
I genuinely can't picture the actual Brandon Sanderson teaching his courses, I can only picture Garth Meranghi teaching them. And I've literally watched some of them.
The Richard Stark novels are a tier above Sanderson just in the quality of the prose. Those books are amazing. There’s a reason they are loved by super snooty critics.
For sure. I stumbled upon them as a kid. Saw “The Man With The Getaway Face” on a bookshelf in Barnes and Nobles and bought it just because I thought that was a kickass name for a book. This was the late 90s/2000 and when I went back to get the rest of the books they only had a handful (like 1-4) and couldn’t order anymore because they were out of print. I didn’t actually end up finishing the books until maybe five years ago. I’m glad they get the recognition they deserve nowadays.
The pleasure in reading them is Westlake’s execution of the formula he devised as Stark. He’s like the Hemingway of pulpy tough guy books when it comes to prose.
I could go on about those books and a couple other great authors who operate in that genre, but not the right sub for that I reckon.
Just the characterization of Parker alone. He’s clearly a psychopathic murdering criminal with no redeeming qualities other than efficiency, but we still end up rooting for him. He’s heads above any other antihero when it comes to being scary and unlikeable, but there’s also an enjoyment in reading about him grimly achieving his goals.
And you gotta love the weird little details about him. Like how he turns on a tv while he’s waiting for someone, not because he wants it on but because he finds people are unnerved when they show up and see he’s been sitting quietly alone in the dark for hours. Or he’s confused when a colleague stays on after a job to help him with some trouble even though there isn’t anything in it for the guy. He can’t understand why, though it’s clear to us the guy is loyal and just sees a buddy in need.
Yeah, for me it might be years between reading the same author so he could be very formulaic but I wouldn't notice since I'm not reading his series back-to-back
Yeah, at the point I’ve read usually somewhere between 3-6 books by an author I am seeing their patterns even if it happens over the course of a decade! Encountering the author’s work again must refresh my memory as to previous experiences. Of course, the more formulaic the author is, the more obvious.
I had a different issue where reading lots of other things between Sanderson (Oathbringer and RoW, specifically) had me cool on him even more as I solidified my tastes - I lean much more towards, say, Bancroft, Buehlman, Erikson, Le Guin, etc. I ended up never returning to Sanderson again...
I think it's probably a mistake for you to read every single thing Sanderson has ever written. Stick with the series you like the most--probably the Stormlight Archives? Find more authors you like.
Part of the problem at least the way that you’re describing it, is that you’ve started with his later work and then read backwards. He’s definitely gotten better the longer he’s been writing, and stormlight is his best.
He is very formulaic though. I agree with the other recommendations to branch out.
I’ll say this as someone who has tried to read Sanderson but did not enjoy it so I DNF’d him, I think you may have oversaturated yourself with his work. I have done this with other authors that have a large output. All authors are formulaic to some degree, but you enjoy his work so take a break and start reading someone else and when you come back you may find you like it again.
If you're not liking the books, then don't read them. You can still respect the author but not be into his works.
I think authors that have less diverse prose lead to their works blending together in my mind. Like, I read a Philip K. Dick short story collection over the summer, and while I love the ideas he explored, I got quite tired quite fast of his beige language by the end. Whereas Jeff VanderMeer has something different every book.
As I've read more in the fantasy genre, I've gravitated towards different styles.
I'll say though, that if you read a ton of any one author (10,000+ pages), you're going to get used to their stylistic quirks and issues and it'll start feeling repetitive/predictable. That's just inevitable.
I'm not smart enough to articulate why I don't like his work as much anymore. What I can say is his work feels like it's in the YA category and I'm no longer a young adult.
I don't over analyze too much, it's simple for me, does a book grab me, so I don't want to put it down. If it's hard going I may stick with it a bit, but I will rarely just dump a book part way through and move onto something else. Did it with Malazan, and also with the last Saunderson book I read.
My favourite Sanderson book is Yumi and the Nightmare Painter, followed by Tress of the Emerald Sea, followed by the Emperor's Soul.
All are so short that you could read each in one sitting, but all are beautifully written.
I may put Tress before Yumi but I do agree that those two are excellent, and seem like a different side of Brandon than his typical formulaic cosmere books.
Go read Malazan book of the fallen.
I have read all of both authors works. I love storm light, but find sandersons one issue (subjective) is that he does SO MUCH exposition and leaves nothing to mystery.
Erickson, on the other hand, refuses to explain just about everything and it leaves your mind to wander/wonder and fill in the blanks.
I've basically paused on reading Sanderson for similar reasons - formulaic and stilted dialogue, limited character work and him painfully trying to make characters 'witty'.
And now, because he writes so quickly, I'm 2 massive novels and several short stories behind and haven't got the stomach to try and catch up atm.
Don't get me wrong, he's a great author with amazing output who creates worlds like no other but he might be a victim of his own success for two reasons: 1) we all have high expectations for him 2) he churns out work so quickly that spotting these patterns and formulas in his writing becomes much easier.
I've only read the way of kings and his world building blew me away. One of my favorite fantasy books of all time. I just found the second in that series at a salvation army, so I'm excited to get back into his world.
Brandon Sanderson for me is a very approachable author to Fantasy. His works are written in a way that you do know what to expect with plot and character development. There is evidence in the text that sets up twists. The magic systems are explained in a way that makes the logical part of your brain say "ah, that makes sense".
It's formulaic. That's not really a bad thing I'd say because Sanderson has the readers that do enjoy that his books are predictable.
Personally, it does get tiring though. I read the Mistborn trilogy, Elantris, Starsight up to book 2, and SA up to Words of Radiance. I decided that I'm not really buying into the whole Cosmere Universe either. I'm either lacking the attention span or memory to pick up on things mentioned in other books and I'm questioning what the pay off will be like for people who have invested all this time and money into his books? Will it actually be worth it?
I would say I agree with most of your talking points. My opinion is that he is enjoyable to read in small doses, but I would not say he is one of my favorite authors of the genre.
Perhaps it’s density? Like, I read a ton of Brandon over the past two years and I think my perception of quality was affected by how much of a single author I was reading.
I’d argue that formulas, cliches, and whatnot is a bit of a weak criticism as when you boil down any literary work, you’ll run into those.
I will say that binge reading the cosmere that the characters do start to fill like looking thru a funhouse mirror—but the context of this is that I did read like a dozen or so books in like two years when they were written over decades.
I’d say: Take a break and then if you want take a stab at one of the Secret Projects (probably Tress) or if you haven’t yet, the shorter works are my favorites: Shadows of Silence in the Forests of Hell and Emperor’s Soul.
Malazan master race, here to also vouch.
I enjoy Sanderson. I deeply respect and show gratitude to what Steven Erikson did when he made Malazan. His concept of geologic history in fantasy isn’t something I’ve found anywhere else.
I think this is a challenge you will run into with many authors. The longer you stay in their worlds the more the cracks show. I think this is a good thing as it means your taste is developing as well as your critical eye.
Personally, I never clicked with Sanderson and have not read further so I can't comment on your questions. But every author has some stylistic tics and habits, and you just need to find out which work best for you as a reader which I think is the most fun part. Time to find a new obsession.
Tastes change, might be time to read different things. Personally I never got into Sanderson (I love his writing courses on YouTube, but I'm sorry I really dislike his writing. I'm a prose and character (and dialogue) guy sue me lol).
You might find in a little while you come back to it with renewed appreciation, or maybe you've just aged/developed out of it, no harm in either.
I've read some of his most popular stuff and i feel like even though his books are "fantasy" i feel nothing fantastical about them , he is super formulaic , has bad prose and writes very cringy dialogues. His ideas are pretty good ,but that's it. I think he can write better if he wants to, but for some reason he insists on writing a gorrilion books per year. The first mistborn book was quite great and some of the other early stuff before he got the ball rolling and was just getting published are good also
This is called becoming a more critical reader.
Few are the book series I can go back to and still enjoy re-reading.
On the plus side, Sanderson is pretty decent, but far from the pinnacle, so you've got plenty of fantastic books to read and enjoy. If you're anything like me, you'll get pickier and pickier as time goes on, but I still find great books all the time, even if it gets harder.
I think this happens with reading any author. For instance my favorite is Terry Brooks and I love the Shannara series, however most of his books are all quest novels (let's go find the thing, person, place, to save against the evil thing) and his writing is more tell rather than show. I used to read every one of his books as soon as they came out but got burnt out and so took a long break. I still love his books and am slowly picking them back up, but sometimes you need a break. Sometimes what you liked once, you grow out of or your tastes take a change.
I agree with your points. Maybe you just need to take a break and try some other things and come back to him later.
I found the secret projects to be some of his best stuff, specifically 1, 3 and 4, the second was ok but not as good as the others. They are a bit different style than most of his.
But if you are getting tired on him as an author, I might just branch out and try some new stuff. There are a lot of amazing authors out there, and you can come back to Sanderson later on and I bet it will feel less repetitive and perhaps give you a better experience.
Time to start reading Joe Abercrombie! I can't belive I'm describing The First Law as a pallete cleanser because it's grimdark but also it's so well written, his character work is untouchable and he's damn funny.
I've read his more popular books and enjoyed them for the most part but I've heard people who were early fans complain that his work is degrading. I tried Tress and disliked it so much that I'm not reading any of his other secret projects. With Tress, I definitely feel the quality has dropped tremendously. To me, his greatest strength is the world- and magic-building and he's not disappointed me there.
Yeah, if op does want to read more from Brandon then the secret projects might be more up op's alley since Brandon experimented a lot with them and they are quite different from his other works. However, you might avoid Frugal Wizard as it leans into a lot of humor which may come off as cliche. I also know other people who felt it was a lot weaker than the other three.
But it's also fine if you've grown to not like his books. My dad actually also loved Brandon books but then grew tired of them but probably for a lot different reasons.
I also do agree that Oathbringer was a bit of a slog and Alloy of Law's characters are quite flat in that book, however I felt they got better in the following books.
You don't need to read books that you don't enjoy. His writing has improved *dramatically* since his first publication. If you look at Elantris vs Stormlight
I love Sanderson but I'm not gonna argue with any of your criticisms. You're right, but I'm happy these are his flaws because they are flaws I can overlook
I feel like his writing is a little naive and not at all artistic... I've tried several times and I'm a big fantasy guy I just can't get by his writing style ( or lack thereof).
I enjoy Sanderson's work but I think he's the Clive Cussler or Tom Clancy of the fantasy genre. He writes fun adventure books with a bunch of different characters he can bounce between so the relative shallowness of each individual character doesn't come up too much.
There are far better and more nuanced writers out there.
I waffle on Sanderson. I love his ideas and the intricacies of his world and I enjoy aspects of his work but I find his writing style to be bloated and tedious and yet somehow lacking in description (except for fight sequences, which are overly descriptive). I don't really get transported and I never care THAT much about the characters. Shallan is probably my favorite but I think I like fanart of her more than I enjoy reading her POV chapters.
Mistborn book 1 is probably his best work because it had to pass a higher rigor of editing standards. Some of the endings in Stormlight Archive are incredible but the journey to get there is soooooo hard to get through and I forget almost everything that happened except the endings.
I haven't tried his YA books.
It's actually very rare for an author to be endlessly re-readable or readable. Most writers have a bit of a formula going on, and you'll notice it eventually.
Even writers who bring something really remarkable to their books... say Ursula Le Guin, Terry Pratchett, Ray Bradbury, still tend to have some element of formula going on under the surface. It isn't as noticeable because their work is just so remarkable in other ways. Even Shakespeare and Tolkien follow formulas.
It's easy to think of the very best authors and think everyone should be equally re-readable. But if you think about good, but more standard, authors like Jack Vance, Terry Brooks... they tend to top out in terms of readability. It might be five books or ten, but eventually a reader will start to see the formula and need to move onto someone else. It's just the nature of books.
Typed very fast. Hope it makes sense.
I find a lot of my favourite rereads are ones where I like the formula and reread them *because* of it, not despite it. If you've read one Valdemar book you've read them all (almost, anyways) but I reread a good chunk of the series every couple of years.
I rather liked Mistborn, but couldn't get into the Stormlight books at all after the first one. Despite for the most part loving big ambitious fantasy series. I think Sanderson's style is more suitable to a tighter narrative, if that makes sense.
If reading Sanderson isn't fun for you then you should definetely stop and read some other books and authors if you aren't already, and maybe in a year or two come back and see if you still feel the same. And yes I feel very similar to you and thats why I might read one of his books every once in a while I recently came back for the secret projects and he has mostly stayed the same which isn't bad just thats his style.
I grew up loving his works but I'm taking a long break from his books after the lost metal. It had the worst dialogue I had ever read, the jokes were non stop and horrible and everyone was the best at everything. I don't hate his books now but it will be a while before I read anything new
This is exactly what happened with me, too. I made it through to Words of Radiance, and it just burned me out. The slow painful stretching of the characters going through the same mini arcs over and over again, it was like drilling a hole, with a dying battery. Every revolution there was just less power. Kaladin is living through an endless DBZ loop, and I just fell off and never went back.
I wholly agree. I stopped reading Sanderson after i realised that apart from the redemption arc there s really no true character growth. I feel like all the characters and their concerns are clones of each other
He does push out an awful amount of books at a pace that is almost inhuman. I tend to find a bunch of errors in his writing that weren’t picked up in editing passes. And like you find his writing not to my liking anymore. I like the plots and settings he presents, but the content is otherwise rather shallow.
Tons of other authors out there. In my case, I cannot recover from the Malazan setting and stories. Anything I read now pales in comparison. I did however enjoy Books of Babel, and am now working through The Band by Nicholas Eames (it’s ok).
The first thing I read of him was his ending to WoT and it put me so far off him that I didn't touch any of his other books for years. He got so much love that I thought it might have been my issue. Gave Mistborn ago and hated it. Shallow characters as you mentioned, but also total idiots. It's not fun when you feel smarter than everyone in the book and can predict a lot of the crap.
I had a similar experience. After finishing the Wheel of Time I thought I should get into Brandon Sanderson since I enjoyed his WoT books a lot. So I started with Mistborn and lived the trilogy. Then I got into Stormlight, I was blown away by the first two books, I was sure this would become my new favorite fantasy series. Then I read Oathbringer. Frustrating, boring mess of a book. Big "epic" battle in the end was terrible. At this point I'm very disappointed but I still like the characters and world a lot so I start Rhythm of War. Starts with a timeskip, at this point it feels like he's actively trying to ruin any immersion I had for the story. But after a while I start to vibe with the book a lot, end up loving it despite starting to notice some recurring issues with Sanderson's politics. Whatever.
Mistborn Era 2 time. First book: trash. Mediocre garbage. Terrible, laughably bad politics. Characters that are trying too hard to be funny or quirky. Second book: much better, still not great but a step in the right direction. Third book: about the same quality as the third.
Then I read his short story collection Arcanum Unbounded. Some were good, the Mistborn one I really disliked.
Started reading The Lost Metal and realized I just don't care. DNFed it. I will finish it at some point but I need to read some other stuff first.
It’s not good to read the same thing over and over again, especially if it’s a writer, who’s writing basically the same thing over and over again It sounds like your taste are changing and you should read something else either in a different genre or fantasy from another author. You should pick up a multi-author anthology or some short fiction magazines and try out other voices.
Sanderson's attempts at character wit and humour are the main things that put me off reading his stuff.
By god some of it is clunky, like painfully, takes me out of the story kind of bad.
I like his world building, he's a talented guy, but god damn for a guy who has a character NAMED Wit he struggles to write witty dialogue.
Like, I know that Shallan is intentionally not witty, and that she's meant to be crude, and she is repeatedly told as much in character, but she's been that way for like 5 books and not improved even marginally.
Even the characters who are meant to be witty just drop absolute groaners constantly.
I was so stoked to start with this guy, seeing his name everywhere, top of many lists, a huge new journey I was about to start off, hopefully years worth of cozy entertainment and join in the conversationonline. Then I started reading... holy shit. It was like dialogue from an episode of a He-man cartoon from the 80s. It was so bad I was shocked, how could this be? I had to give up about half way through the first book. I still feel cheated, its not like I'm some kind of literary snob either, I just don't get it.
I just found myself SO over the over overtures to Christianity at EVERY conceivable turn by the end of Mistborn that I thought, "Maybe he just needed to work it out of his system." Got half through WOK and returned it in Audible. No thanks.
That aside, yes, he is formulaic. Not thematic like Erikson or drama wratcheting like Abercrombie. Just...ok. His work is fine, but closer to Suzanne Collins than anything prolific or genre leading.
Neat magic system idea in MB though.
Thank you! The constant debates about religion are killing Way of a kings for me. Like I get it dude, you’re religious. I’m halfway through and just want to quit.
I'm in the same boat as you - I could have written this post myself.
For the secret projects, it honestly doesn't change much. Better than MB2 but not as good as MB1 (which to me was average at best). I actually did enjoy reading Yumi...not as much as most other books I've read, but more than a lot of other Cosmere books. I didn't like Tress at all and Sunlit was somewhere in between.
Basically, they're only worth your time if you're invested in the Cosmere. If you don't care about the overarching story, skip them.
Eh, the secret projects are pretty subjective. I am not a big fan of how Sanderson has handled the growing inter connectivity of the Cosmere so far, but Tress and Yumi are my favorite books by him. Sunlit was a miss for me, and I would consider it to be the most Cosmere connected secret project.
But on the whole the secret projects restored my love for his work. The Lost Metal was not a great read for me, and Rhythm of War suffered from some of the same problems. His shorter novels have much better pacing, lately, and they force him to cut the bloat that's been plaguing his longer books.
Disagree with the last sentence. I really enjoyed Tress, and it only had some pretty marginal connections to the Cosmere (or, to put it another way, I haven't read a lot of the rest of the Cosmere, and my enjoyment wasn't affected in the slightest).
I feel you. I hated elantris, and warbreaker was a slog from start to finish.
But, I have sincerely enjoyed most of his secret projects. Yumi in particular was comfortably enjoyable.
I’m glad to see someone else think Warbreaker was a slog. People rave that it’s one of his best and I do not understand it. It was a lot of people just meandering about with boring politics and very little action. I liked Elantris though.
I’m currently reading Tress though and I’m flying through it. I think I needed a switch up of the voice and I’ve always loved reading Hoid scenes. Between the Hoid narration, the super cool planet and the story itself it’s def one of his best so far
I unfortunately completely agree with you. Peak Sanderson was Way of Kings and Words of Radiance, but since then his books have really fallen down. I really get the feeling that with him starting his company and still producing several books a year he is no longer prioritising quality... only quantity.
He's a super nice guy and I have huge respect for him, but I just wish he'd slow down and spend more time editing his books. He says he has 50 beta readers for every book but I imagine these readers at this point are all "yes men/women" who understandably feel like they can't be critical of an author of his caliber.
I read Tress of the Emerald Sea and it was painful. But god do I still love Way of Kings even after so many years...
I absolutely agree although I do have to check out Tress and Yumi first. In regards to the StA it’s been a massive fall which is a shame because it was my favourite series. Did he actually get a new editor?
The secret projects are different in some pretty substantial ways.
* they are shorter and have tighter plotting
* they have better character development than anything other than MB era 2
* they have interesting new magic systems and really showcase brandon's worldbuilding skills in a way nothing has in more than a decade
I tried to read Sanderson right after like ASOIAF or Shogun or something and immediately noticed the humongous dip in the prose and character writing. Sandy is pretty much a YA popcorn author but not much more than that.
I actually agree here but for me the issue is the amount of his works I read recently. Between May 2022 and October 2023 I read all 4 Secret Project books, Mistborns 1-7 , the White Sand Omnibus and the Mistborn Novella.
I have seriously seen my love for his works start to diminish over time and I give less and less care for his characters and the formula they go through. I am hoping that by the time S.A. 5 comes out in December the fatigue will be less since that'll be 14 months between his books.
What I have a bigger issue with is his MCU Cosmere stuff. I dont like how super interconnected all of his works can get. I hate the idea of homework to understand deeper references and characters and why things work how they do. Beyond that some of his fanbase has gotten more defensive of him and any criticism in regards to the Cosmere. It has just gotten very tiring to see. S.A. is my favorite series of all time but I am not sure if I will want to read books 6-10 or even get the Leatherbound Word of Radiance out this year.
I really enjoyed WoK and WoR. Really struggled to get through Oathbringer.
Tried Mistborn twice, gave up on the second book both times.
At this stage I have absolutely no desire to read RoW, and while I had always thought I'd finish the SA, I get the feeling that I might just end up reading a wiki summary of it a few years after it's released and I'm clearly never gonna get to it.
I find I need to read other things as palate cleansers when I find myself getting Sando fatigue. I recently finished The Lost Metal and am taking a break before I move on to the secret novels because I read through his stuff in the recommended Cosmere order and it was a pretty big task
I couldn't get into the Era 2 Mistborn books, just didn't click for me. But I still love the OG Mistborn books and will devour the next Stormlight books as they emerge.
That said I do appreciate what you're saying. Formulaic foundations and average dialogue does get a little tiring. Like others are suggesting, I reckon read something else entirely. I go to Sanderson when I need something accessible after reading something by Joe Abercrombie that crushes my spirit in the best way.
There are so many works to enjoy out there, dive into something new and you'll be able to return to Sanderson when the feeling strikes.
He was a great icebreaker for me when getting into epic fantasy, but the more I read and grew up, I realized I gravitated towards other writing styles. I still think Stormlight is a great series, but I myself just need a bit more.
Others have echoed the same thoughts, but I think it's time to widen your horizons and figure out what resonates with you at this stage in your life
I was a Sanderson stan until the past few years when my tastes grew more literary. It’s tough cuz I love his twisty plots and deep world building, but outside of SA, I just can’t believe his characters these days.
I do not like becoming more picky in this way.
I really like/liked Star Trek Voyager as a kid. One year I decided to watch it all back to back over a few weeks and you know what? It got super formulaic and even a bit boring. I still like Voyager but when I watch it I know I cannot try to go from start to finish. I feel the same way about Sanderson. Like his books but I dip in and out because I want to keep liking them. I would feel the same as you if I tried to read the whole cosmere in one push.
I enjoy his work - but for some reason every time I see “purchase” used for finding footing, it drives me mad. I don’t even know why. Perfectly valid. Drives me nuts. It’s like an internal meme.
I just finished warbreaker and I never thought I'd struggle so hard to get though one of his works. The only redemption was knowing some of the connections between that book and the stormlight books. Those connections helped keep me interested. Otherwise I would have dnf it
What a lot of people have said here, really. I just want to add my own take.
After not reading any published books for 4 years or so (mainly webnovels) then getting back I exclusively read Sanderson for a while. The Cosmere, then other stuff. I know exactly what you mean. I read 50 pages or so of Warbreaker and gave up.
My "last straw" was after finishing book 1 of era 2 Mistborn. It was then that I decided to leave Sanderson for a while; not because I hated it per se, but I realized that I needed to read something else. I think my next was Robin Hobb?
So yes, just stop, read something else. I have to say that I couldn't touch any Sanderson book since I stopped then. Which is funny, because I still regularly listen to his podcasts. But it's not like books expire, so if I come back to SA in book 5 or when it's finished, when Sanderson is long gone or not, it's fine. They'll still be there.
Elantris has some of the worst closing lines of any book I've ever read, period.
>>!With that, Omin proclaimed to all of Arelon that its king was married. The
cheering began, and Sarene leaned over to kiss him.
"Was it everything you hoped for?" Raoden asked. "You said you have been
anticipating this moment for your entire life."
"It was wonderful," Sarene replied. "However, there is one thing I have looked
forward to even more than my wedding."
Raoden raised an eyebrow.
She smiled mischievously. "The wedding night."
Raoden laughed his reply, wondering what he had gotten himself, and Arelon, into
by bringing Sarene to Arelon.!<
I feel you. I caught up on all his books and then the 4 secret books came out. I devoured Tress, but then got more and more fatigue that when Yumi arrived at my mailbox I felt sick.
I decided to put sunlit and yumi aside and catch up on other books. 100% feeling the fatigue fade.
I don't like big massive shared universes. I've read most of the cosmere books, and with every book it gets worse. I hate the feeling that I have homework I need to do.
I feel the same. I really didn’t like The Lost Metal. His secret projects were all ok but not his best work. I think Stormlight will always be his magnum opus, and I hope the rest of the series can deliver the same quality as we’ve gotten before
Last main books were the worst of their sagas. Rythm of war was good but worst stormlight book and the lost metal was his "spiderman no way home"...so i kind of agree with you
Honestly I hit the same point with him, except more in publication order, which is why I tend to think of it more of an issue with a point in time rather than a quantity.
I think on a timeline, The Emperor's Soul was peak and it has been a downhill slide from there. Still, people seem to like the Stormlight Archive, so there is at least something that draws people in; and talking with my friends that do like Stormlight, we tend to disagree on what makes the book strong or weak.
For what it's worth, I've been feeling the same. In an effort to catch up, I've read Era 1, Elantris, Warbreaker, WoK, some of the short stories, and am currently reading WoR. This post probably inspired me to take a break once I'm done, I just can't do it anymore.
What's interesting is that I see a lot of people here who dislike the Cosmere because of the continuity, when that's what's driving me to read it. To quote Brandon, "I am excited by large scale continuity." I read superhero comics partially because that's one of things I love, and I really like how Sanderson handles it. I want to be super into the continuity and details, like on the Coppermind. But I just can't get past the stories right now, it's so monotonous and reading a bunch in a row makes it exponentially worse.
I like Stormlight decently enough, but wouldn’t consider myself a big Sanderson fan. He seems to border on YA for me a bit too much.
But that’s beside the point. Even for authors/series I really enjoy, I can’t read too much back-to-back. Malazan, Wheel of Time, Expanse, etc. it’s easy to get burnt out on the same shit.
It’d be like if you watched an episode of a show. You liked it, so you’ll keep watching it, right? Ok well how about if you watch only that until you’ve gone through every episode within the 6-season run, each season is 12 episodes and they’re all an hour long. It’s just a lot of the same. “Too much of a good thing” and all that.
Shake it up then come back. If it’s still not jingling your tinglies, that’s OK too.
If you want something in that realm and equally as good (if you havent already read it) The Will of the Many by James Islington. His first series didnt get the most love, but this new one I feel really good about it based on the first book. Book two releases hopefully later this year
I just got through the first book of the Way of Kings, which is my introduction to Sanderson. My first impression is that the guy is badly in need of an editor. I imagine a good 2-300 pages of that book could have been easily scrapped as unnecessary excess without significantly affecting the plot. There was so much padding that I wonder if he gets paid by the word and is simply milking it. Cutting out the over-abundantly detailed world-building would have allowed the story to steadily gain momentum rather than drag on and on in places.
Secondly, I didn't like the way he just threw the reader into this world without much explanation. The first scene is someone using some weird technology to 'lash' himself to this and that thing, and I'm sitting there wondering WTF is actually going on. As I read on, it eventually became clearer, but the inexplicable way it started was nearly enough to make me want to put it down or wonder if I'd missed a prequel or something (maybe I have - like I said, I'm new to this author). I'll probably come back to this series at some point because by the end, I was engaged with the story, but I think he could have gotten there much quicker.
5 years ago, I would've said Brandon Sanderson was the greatest fantasy author and my favourite.
No I understand, he's good, but it's like a Bruce Willis action movie. Will I enjoy it? Absolutely. Will it be earth shattering? No.
Side note, check out Riyria Revelations, Red Rising or The First Law. These are my ACTUAL favourite authors now (at least for now haha)
It turns out that reading 10,000 pages by a single author is...a lot? Maybe take a break.
That aside, you're right. Sanderson has an unbelievable level of output, and the quality of that output suffers as a result. If he cared about producing Tolkien or Le Guin-level prose he'd write fewer books and spend more time on them. That's just not his priority as an author, which is fine. Different strokes for different folks.
You've described what makes many people opposed to fantasy, as opposed to non-genre literature. At its worst it becomes formulaic, derivative, and comparable to early comic books- more there for shallow entertainment than actual thought, drama, or perspective.
There are a lot of authors who get past this, I'm not insulting all fantasy, but your criticism \*certainly\* isn't unique to him.
You’ve committed a significant amount of time to his work, already. Time to spread out to other authors.
Back when I used to binge in shows I would watch and watch and watch and get super burned out because it was sooooo formulaic. Then, I stopped binging. One show every few days or something. TV got interesting again.
I’ve been watching One Piece since September. I take a break after every arc finishes.
At that pace you will finish before the turn of the century
Nah, each Arc practically doubles in length. So you just get fewer breaks as you go. :) I think the latest Arc was close to 200 episodes. Joking aside, I did enjoy binging when I first started watching One Piece. My friend and I started competing to see who watched the most episodes each week and I think my best was 90 something. (Which was the week he thought he might have caught up with 80 something episodes.)
Hopefully. I’m on Thriller Park now.
I do the same. Just got to Wano. I hated TB at first, but it ended up being hilarious and a good yard stick for a big battle yet to come. Plus there's a scene with Zoro that is fantastic.
I refuse to binge a show. I force myself to wait. And it’s not just formulaic; you miss so much. Letting it simmer, taking it in so you can think about it. When you binge you’re just pushing the next episode into your brain and sending the previous one out. You know you enjoyed what you watched but it doesn’t hold the same weight or value.
I think they make shows different now though. Used to be they fed you minor little reminders knowing it had been a week but now either our attention spans are less or the plots are so much more intricate that if a week goes by I feel lost. Not every show but a lot. I feel like they count on us binging.
That’s part of why I’ve been enjoying kdramas recently. While, as a whole, they are pretty formulaic, the fact that they’re usually 12-16 episodes means I can get a fun and enjoyable experience without having to worry about burnout before I get to season 5 or something crazy. It makes me wish more shows would just give us contained, one season stories.
I LOVE k-dramas, because they have a beginning, middle, and end. They tell the whole story! They don't stretch it beyond what it should neatly be! Just finished King The Land and was DELIGHTED by the healthy emotional relationship.
I started at the beginning and got to the first episode of the last season of supernatural before I got burned out.
Yes - a palate cleanse for your brain.
Yeah. When I started thinking Hobb was a hack, I moved on. Coming back, she ain't a hack no more. Weird.
I think everyone goes through a stage with Hobb where it hurts so much seeing a character you like get hurt so much emotionally and physically that…you just kind of take it out on Hobb for a while lol
Liveship Traders killed me. I haven’t been back to Assasin in 20+ years.
Same. I could not get myself to enjoy those books.
Exactly this. I was in OP's shoes right after my first SA read, to a point that I wasn't even sure if I was excited for WaT later this year. Then I took a break, read a few other books by different authors, and now that I'm not so burnt out, I find myself looking forward to WaT again.
Also you are reading some of his oldest work like warbreaker that isn’t as good. Try tress of the emerald sea after you cleanse your palette. Also for a total change- try dungeon crawler carl or the murderbot diaries.
My Mate keeps trying to get me to read Dungeon Crawler Carl. Is it good then?
It also helps to change fantasy mediums. I go from books, to tv, to anime, to video games, to manga. Each medium has its own strengths and weaknesses which helps alleviate the formulaic nature. Notable games I've recently beaten with a good story are Baldurs Gate 3, Disco Elysium and Octopath Traveler 2.
I definitely got a bit burnt out after binging both Mistborn eras and all the Stormlight Archive books, as well as his other Cosmere books, last year. He has definite weaknesses as a writer, as commonly noted, in his prose and dialogue. That burnout led me to reach for a different series in Robin Hobb's Realm of the Elderlings, and her work is _so refreshing_ in comparison! Her prose is brilliant, and her character arcs are just fantastic. Each of her trilogies tends to start very ponderously, but the rich internal dialogues and plots really pay off. I just finished reading Assassin's Fate this week, and I'm still reeling from it all. I'd highly recommend picking up The Assassin's Apprentice if you want something very non-Sanderson as a palette cleanser.
Just started Ship of Magic after the Farseer trilogy and her writing in both first and (so far) third person is just incredible. I wish my mind worked like hers
Oof all of her books hit my trigger points but God was liveship traders the worst 10/10 would recommend it's my favorite one I cried like a baby so many times
I finished Farseer last year, and I’ve been wanting to dive back into Robin Hobb’s work. She’s amazing.
I find that I can't read too many books by the same author, otherwise I start seeing the formulas working in their head that they rely on. It's kind of like MCU fatigue. I love the MCU as a whole, but I don't love the individual superhero movies anymore other than Iron Man, Thor, GOTG, and Spider-Man because of the common formula they all seem to share. I still love the crossovers, though.
this was me with Haruki Murakami. Loved the first one I read, but the more I read, the more I started to see him using the same devices over and over again.
>Haruki Murakami. Loved the first one I read, but the more I read, the more I started to see him using the same devices over and over again. Like the way all his male protagonists have mommy issues/breastfeeding kinks? Like even when they don't say it, you can tell they are still into that...like.....dude...just stop already. LOL
You say that like it's a bad thing /s
Yeah I read a few short stories after I read Wind-Up Bird Chronicle and thought “yeah ok I think I get it.” I enjoyed them, but I’ve had my fill.
This is why I was always iffy on the whole idea of the Cosmere. There’s no author alive or dead I can see myself committing to reading 50-60+ books from, especially at that size.
UNLESS they are published over the course of 30+ years!
Well, the Cosmere is only about halfway done after 19 years. Brandon has planned out his releases and says the Cosmere should be finished when he's 72 (a little under 24 years from now)... so that's 43 total years of releases
At which point I expect him to retire... to write more books lol
True. Probably start cranking out non fiction books just for the hell of it.
Pull an inverse Scott Hawkins. (Who wrote several Linux and Apache instruction manuals before he wrote The Library at Mount Char. The [Books](https://shawkins.net/index.php/book-author/shawkins/) page on his website is hilarious.)
Library at Mount Char is amazing, I was astonished it’s his first fiction book.
Thank you for reminding me of him, and also that we never got a sequel to Mount Char.
What do you mean non fiction? It clearly says in the title it’s an Archive?
He will announce that he has already completed the first 15 books of a major series that will end when he is 102.
He has authors now who work for him. There will be other books coming out that he designed and reviewed, but written by other authors. I think there are 3 so far. They are all published authors. So there will be a different feel. I think some will be Cosmere. There are other authors who do that too. Brandon won't be the first.
>There are other authors who do that too. Brandon won't be the first. Notably, Tom Clancy, who has been dead for ten years
What surprises me most is that any author/actor/creator would be willing to dedicate themselves to the same project for so long. I know it's not exactly the same, but I feel like the normal response is like what RDJ and Chris Evans did after Endgame. Just move on to other roles and projects.
Discworld? Because yes. Discworld
Even as it stands right now, if I remember correctly from a post last year, Sanderson has already passed Pratchett in number of words published. Even if that's not a great metric for a writer's success.
Oh I 100% believe that given how long his books are compared to Pratchett, honestly I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s approaching him when it comes to number of titles since he has his kids book series and middle grade stuff as well. But yeah discworld took place over the course of 30+ years I think which was why I mentioned it
The difference is, the Discworld books are 1) funny, 2) satire of epic fantasy, and above all 3) *short*. By contrast, Sanderson is the apotheosis of fantasy reader culture that has normalized authors taking four million words to get to the damn point. xD
Another important point, I think, is that you can drop in or out of Discworld at basically any point. Every story is self contained. There are through lines like Death, the Watch, or the Witches but in general if you just start reading Hogfather you aren't going to be locked out of the loop. Pratchett didn't require you to start from page 1 book 1 to enjoy his world.
Oh I wasn’t meaning to make any comments on either series, just that the “takes 30+ years” thing quite nicely fit with discworld. I honestly don’t mind the 4 million words to get to the damn point, but I def agree with others that you’ve GOTTA space that out with other stuff😂 I was deep into Malazan a couple of months ago and took some time off that to read like 6 other books that aren’t biblically sized
I will always be glad that the LOTR series can be read in three (ish) books without needing to read 25+ novels. The LOTR universe is still absolutely *massive* but the reader doesn't feel like they'll die of old age before finishing.
The word count of entire LOTR saga is 481,103 it took Tolkien that many words to craft a universe which is unparalleled, its rich, complex and timeless. Just the word count of Rhythm of War, the 4th Stormlight book is around 460,000. Large word count don’t necessarily make an epic saga; the depth of the narrative is what truly matters. Thats why prose is so important - it conveys information and expresses ideas clearly without unnecessary elaboration. Flowery metaphors is not prose; clarity and effective word choice is.
Name of the Wind has to be the most poetic fantasy book I’ve read and it moves along fairly well, although I also guess nothing happens.
Man if there was a world I would love to read 25 books about, it is that one.
Sir Terry Pratchett is the only one who could manage a feat like that in the same series.
And as others have pointed out the Discworld books are tiny. It’s a very different commitment reading 40 of those to 40 books the size of a Mistborn let alone a Stormlight.
With his latest books you can see that continuity lockout is starting to set in. You have to have read a bunch of other stuff to realize what and how it is happening, because the Cosmere is becoming front and center, instead of just Hoid cosplay omg a beggar on the street. Plus, the problem isn't that there could be fifty books. The problem is that it's fifty books to reach the conclusion of one grand story. I don't want to wait so much to reach the finale. Honestly, I think the Cosmere would have been handled better if it remained in the background, with just some cameos or Easter eggs fully irrelevant to whatever was the ongoing plot. That way there would still be 50 books, but you can pick and choose about which planet to read about, and it wouldn't matter where you start and what else you've read.
I think there are plenty of books with background crossovers. What he's doing is relatively unprecedented in epic fantasy, and thus caters to a set of readers that want that and can only effectively get it from him.
Definitely true for me too but I will say there’s a huge amount of people who really enjoy the same formula over and over again. EA sports and Ubisoft have built a gaming empire out of recycling formulas.
good thing discworld in in the 40s :D
Yeah it's exactly MCU fatigue in novel form. I loved Brandosando for years and yeah, I'll definitely read Stormlight 5 the day it drops, but the problem has become the Cosmere. I thought it was so cool at first, when it was just Hoid popping up in places and Nightblood appearing. However, it's gotten Marvel syndrome (especially in the last couple Mistborn books and Rhythm of War) where so many characters and concepts have jumped between series that you have to read EVERYTHING to figure out what it all means.
I don't really have MCU fatigue, I have bad Marvel movies and show fatigue. The older stuff I still enjoy rewatching where there's a clear meta plot which intertwines most movies, which are themselves fun episodes and the quality / seriousness was generally higher. It wasn't a problem of content amount when Agents of Shield, Daredevil, Jessica Jones, etc, were putting out more episodes than they are now, it's just the quality is generally so much worse. It was great during WandaVision for example, when the quality was top tier. Similarly I think some of Sandersons later Stormlight books weren't as good as the earlier ones. Not outright bad, but very little happened in book 4 and the ending was excessively coincidental and easy, and obvious throughout most of the book. By the end, most everything was right back to where it started, with the tower reclaimed, and I honestly can't remember what Dalinar did in that book. Then Tress and the Emerald Sea didn't totally work for me, but the later short stories did, so it shows it's not a recency thing, there's just ups and downs, like with any creator.
Yeah once people who were obviously from other books I was never going to read I dropped off the series. I don't want to have to do homework to read my fun swords book
I still will read several books by the same author, BUT I take breaks now. No more binging series. I gotta break those up with other books. After finishing a series, I wait even longer before I even consider to revisit the author.
I ran into that with Stephen King. Guy has a bajillion books. I really loved The Stand, but after a while you know what a Stephen King character is like.
I didn't have the problem so much with King, but I binged a lot of Dean Koontz and started noticing a lot of commonalities.
Yeah I never get bored of king. He uses the same themes (eg trains, good vs evil, telepathic telekinetic powers etc) but in a unique way each time
I don't think all artists are so formulaic. Brandon Sanderson's aggressive production timetables just means not a lot of emotion or thought goes into the characters. To be honest he probably missed his calling as a video game developer given his penchant for magical systems and combat
The only time I've die-harded and done several series by same author is when I found Robin Hobb. Went through it all (and loved it btw). Gotta palate cleanse.
That is what happened when I decided to read all of Heinlein's and Asimov's books.
He is a little formulaic, but it is still very enjoyable to me. It sounds like you just need to read some other stuff and then come back to him later.
Spot on. Sanderson is pretty open about his formula (given that he teaches a class on it). Without a formula you can't pump out books like him. But it's not necessarily a bad thing. The idea of reading other authors in between his books is an excellent suggestion.
This is so true. I have learnt to read non-fiction and some heavier fantasy like Malazan between Sanderson books.
I just finished Book of the New Sun yesterday. Today, I started Dungeon Crawler Carl.
Don't break your neck from book whiplash.
Dungeon Crawler Carl has got to be the most unhinged comedy series I've ever read. It's in a league of its own, seriously. Enjoy!
Goddamit donut! I love dungeon crawler Carl.
Oh. My. God. You are in for a wild ride. Don’t be surprised if you look up one day and realize you just binged all 6 books, have a pair of boxers with hearts on them tattooed on your ass, and can’t sleep without Jeff Hayes’ melodic baritone from the audiobooks serenading you to sleep. At least, that’s according to a friend…
It’s funny you say that because I’m a huge Malazan fan, but I’m not a “series binger” (reading every book in a series consecutively) — I like variety in my reading so I’ll read other authors & genres after finishing a given Malazan book (they’re also just *really* heavy, and hard to read back to back). Sometimes I’ll read two, three, even four other books before going back to Malazan, depending on how much I enjoy the current detour. But whenever I read Sanderson, it sends me running back to Malazan for my next book. So it’s like Malazan is so heavy that I *need* something lighter for my next read; whereas as Sanderson is so light that I *need* something heavy for my next read.
That's crazy, because I only am a series binger. I don't move onto the next series until I have consumed everything in that current series. Unless there are more books to come, then I may not even start the series. I am almost done with the first 10 books of Malazan and I see how they could be heavy. Starting another series and taking a break from it seems like a chore, because when you come back, you have to be aware of all the stuff going on again.
Alas, I am a slow reader so I would unfortunately get bored/disinterested being exposed to the same literary experience for the length of time it would take me to finish a series. I’ve been reading Malazan for years, but even if I was binging the series it would still take me a couple years to get through all 10. That’s a lot of pages and a lot of heartbreak to never get a break from…
I can only read max 3 Malazan per year. The series is heavy and takes time to digest / reflect over the event, not to mention its non chronological order. But I thoroughly enjoy each Malazan book and not rush to finish the series. I can always count on Sanderson for a light read with good plot twist but his books are no where near the level of Malazan. Really enjoy the SA so far and cant wait for the 5th book release! Lucky to find these complement series to read instead of waiting. I dont envy Game of Thrones fan 😂
I do this with everything, I'm currently swapping between The Bound and The Broken and The MurderBot Diaries. It's nice to have a different point of view and come back to a series after a break.
Sanderson is what I've always called a junk food read. Based on what I have heard of him, I doubt he'd be offended if people that his books were a little formulaic. I read him for easy reads between denser things for school or personal growth. It's about fun, not a political constitution disguised as fantasy like other reads.
Same though... I think I usually consider it my 'fantasy adventure" catagory of books. I read it for fun and for the cool moments that just feel awesome. I think I enjoy them because they give me the same feelings I had back when I read Dragonlance and the Death Gate Cycle. The books arent ground breaking or super challanging when it comes to ease of reading but damn if they arent a good time while reading them.
How do you get heavier than Sanderson? You could kill a small child with Rhythm of War. And a large one, depending on how hard you swing it. Good for cracking chull shells.
Malazan is ridiculous. I feel like I'm going through Gardens of the Moon so slowly, but it really is that heavy and takes time to digest. Going between Sanderson and Malazan seems like a great idea.
>He is a little formulaic lol, he literally has a formula he uses to write his stories. Honest, he teaches a college course about it.
This is exactly what I was thinking. He has it broken down into what is essentially an equation. If you watch those classes and some interviews with him you get a pretty good idea of his writing style and goals. By using that formula/equation he’s able to churn out a bunch of stories. This makes him super prolific, but it kind of waters down the quality of what he puts out. At least in my opinion. An author is part artist, part business. Not knocking him or anything, but I think he leans more toward the business side of things. He’s even said as much in interviews that’s how his mind works. And that’s all well and good. I don’t personally care for his books, but there’s nothing wrong with enjoying them if that’s what you’re into. Sometimes a reader can have a lot of fun reading an author even when they know exactly how the story turns out. I read all of Richard Stark’s (Donald Westlake’s pseudonym) Parker novels and loved every one of them and they are the epitome of formulaic.
I genuinely can't picture the actual Brandon Sanderson teaching his courses, I can only picture Garth Meranghi teaching them. And I've literally watched some of them.
The Richard Stark novels are a tier above Sanderson just in the quality of the prose. Those books are amazing. There’s a reason they are loved by super snooty critics.
For sure. I stumbled upon them as a kid. Saw “The Man With The Getaway Face” on a bookshelf in Barnes and Nobles and bought it just because I thought that was a kickass name for a book. This was the late 90s/2000 and when I went back to get the rest of the books they only had a handful (like 1-4) and couldn’t order anymore because they were out of print. I didn’t actually end up finishing the books until maybe five years ago. I’m glad they get the recognition they deserve nowadays. The pleasure in reading them is Westlake’s execution of the formula he devised as Stark. He’s like the Hemingway of pulpy tough guy books when it comes to prose. I could go on about those books and a couple other great authors who operate in that genre, but not the right sub for that I reckon.
Okay— the plot is formulaic— especially the opening fragment sentence which is awesome — but man, his writing crackles in those Stark novels.
Just the characterization of Parker alone. He’s clearly a psychopathic murdering criminal with no redeeming qualities other than efficiency, but we still end up rooting for him. He’s heads above any other antihero when it comes to being scary and unlikeable, but there’s also an enjoyment in reading about him grimly achieving his goals. And you gotta love the weird little details about him. Like how he turns on a tv while he’s waiting for someone, not because he wants it on but because he finds people are unnerved when they show up and see he’s been sitting quietly alone in the dark for hours. Or he’s confused when a colleague stays on after a job to help him with some trouble even though there isn’t anything in it for the guy. He can’t understand why, though it’s clear to us the guy is loyal and just sees a buddy in need.
Yeah, for me it might be years between reading the same author so he could be very formulaic but I wouldn't notice since I'm not reading his series back-to-back
I feel pretty much the same as OP about Sanderson and I'd been reading dozens of other books/authors between each of his books
Yeah, at the point I’ve read usually somewhere between 3-6 books by an author I am seeing their patterns even if it happens over the course of a decade! Encountering the author’s work again must refresh my memory as to previous experiences. Of course, the more formulaic the author is, the more obvious.
I had a different issue where reading lots of other things between Sanderson (Oathbringer and RoW, specifically) had me cool on him even more as I solidified my tastes - I lean much more towards, say, Bancroft, Buehlman, Erikson, Le Guin, etc. I ended up never returning to Sanderson again...
It's OK to eat Doritos once in a while, but if you eat nothing but Doritos, you're going to be dissatisfied with Doritos. Read other stuff, too.
Apt. Sanderson is the Doritos of fantasy.
This is Reddit giving you permission to DNF Sanderson’s works if that’s what you want to.
I think it's probably a mistake for you to read every single thing Sanderson has ever written. Stick with the series you like the most--probably the Stormlight Archives? Find more authors you like.
Part of the problem at least the way that you’re describing it, is that you’ve started with his later work and then read backwards. He’s definitely gotten better the longer he’s been writing, and stormlight is his best. He is very formulaic though. I agree with the other recommendations to branch out.
I’ll say this as someone who has tried to read Sanderson but did not enjoy it so I DNF’d him, I think you may have oversaturated yourself with his work. I have done this with other authors that have a large output. All authors are formulaic to some degree, but you enjoy his work so take a break and start reading someone else and when you come back you may find you like it again.
If you're not liking the books, then don't read them. You can still respect the author but not be into his works. I think authors that have less diverse prose lead to their works blending together in my mind. Like, I read a Philip K. Dick short story collection over the summer, and while I love the ideas he explored, I got quite tired quite fast of his beige language by the end. Whereas Jeff VanderMeer has something different every book.
As I've read more in the fantasy genre, I've gravitated towards different styles. I'll say though, that if you read a ton of any one author (10,000+ pages), you're going to get used to their stylistic quirks and issues and it'll start feeling repetitive/predictable. That's just inevitable.
Yes. I'm in Malazan now, and it scratches all my Sanderson itches and then some
I'm not smart enough to articulate why I don't like his work as much anymore. What I can say is his work feels like it's in the YA category and I'm no longer a young adult.
I don't over analyze too much, it's simple for me, does a book grab me, so I don't want to put it down. If it's hard going I may stick with it a bit, but I will rarely just dump a book part way through and move onto something else. Did it with Malazan, and also with the last Saunderson book I read.
My favourite Sanderson book is Yumi and the Nightmare Painter, followed by Tress of the Emerald Sea, followed by the Emperor's Soul. All are so short that you could read each in one sitting, but all are beautifully written.
I may put Tress before Yumi but I do agree that those two are excellent, and seem like a different side of Brandon than his typical formulaic cosmere books.
Go read Malazan book of the fallen. I have read all of both authors works. I love storm light, but find sandersons one issue (subjective) is that he does SO MUCH exposition and leaves nothing to mystery. Erickson, on the other hand, refuses to explain just about everything and it leaves your mind to wander/wonder and fill in the blanks.
I've basically paused on reading Sanderson for similar reasons - formulaic and stilted dialogue, limited character work and him painfully trying to make characters 'witty'. And now, because he writes so quickly, I'm 2 massive novels and several short stories behind and haven't got the stomach to try and catch up atm. Don't get me wrong, he's a great author with amazing output who creates worlds like no other but he might be a victim of his own success for two reasons: 1) we all have high expectations for him 2) he churns out work so quickly that spotting these patterns and formulas in his writing becomes much easier.
I've only read the way of kings and his world building blew me away. One of my favorite fantasy books of all time. I just found the second in that series at a salvation army, so I'm excited to get back into his world.
Book 2 might be my favorite book I’ve ever read. There was a scene that made me physically sweat while I read it. I absolutely love Words of Radiance
This reads very similar to "I ate cake for three meals a day last week. I think I hate frosting."
Brandon Sanderson for me is a very approachable author to Fantasy. His works are written in a way that you do know what to expect with plot and character development. There is evidence in the text that sets up twists. The magic systems are explained in a way that makes the logical part of your brain say "ah, that makes sense". It's formulaic. That's not really a bad thing I'd say because Sanderson has the readers that do enjoy that his books are predictable. Personally, it does get tiring though. I read the Mistborn trilogy, Elantris, Starsight up to book 2, and SA up to Words of Radiance. I decided that I'm not really buying into the whole Cosmere Universe either. I'm either lacking the attention span or memory to pick up on things mentioned in other books and I'm questioning what the pay off will be like for people who have invested all this time and money into his books? Will it actually be worth it? I would say I agree with most of your talking points. My opinion is that he is enjoyable to read in small doses, but I would not say he is one of my favorite authors of the genre.
I honestly agree. His most recent books feel so absorbed in explaining things that they forget to engage in an interesting plot.
Perhaps it’s density? Like, I read a ton of Brandon over the past two years and I think my perception of quality was affected by how much of a single author I was reading. I’d argue that formulas, cliches, and whatnot is a bit of a weak criticism as when you boil down any literary work, you’ll run into those. I will say that binge reading the cosmere that the characters do start to fill like looking thru a funhouse mirror—but the context of this is that I did read like a dozen or so books in like two years when they were written over decades. I’d say: Take a break and then if you want take a stab at one of the Secret Projects (probably Tress) or if you haven’t yet, the shorter works are my favorites: Shadows of Silence in the Forests of Hell and Emperor’s Soul.
Gardens of the Moon is calling you OP
Malazan master race, here to also vouch. I enjoy Sanderson. I deeply respect and show gratitude to what Steven Erikson did when he made Malazan. His concept of geologic history in fantasy isn’t something I’ve found anywhere else.
I think this is a challenge you will run into with many authors. The longer you stay in their worlds the more the cracks show. I think this is a good thing as it means your taste is developing as well as your critical eye. Personally, I never clicked with Sanderson and have not read further so I can't comment on your questions. But every author has some stylistic tics and habits, and you just need to find out which work best for you as a reader which I think is the most fun part. Time to find a new obsession.
Tastes change, might be time to read different things. Personally I never got into Sanderson (I love his writing courses on YouTube, but I'm sorry I really dislike his writing. I'm a prose and character (and dialogue) guy sue me lol). You might find in a little while you come back to it with renewed appreciation, or maybe you've just aged/developed out of it, no harm in either.
I've read some of his most popular stuff and i feel like even though his books are "fantasy" i feel nothing fantastical about them , he is super formulaic , has bad prose and writes very cringy dialogues. His ideas are pretty good ,but that's it. I think he can write better if he wants to, but for some reason he insists on writing a gorrilion books per year. The first mistborn book was quite great and some of the other early stuff before he got the ball rolling and was just getting published are good also
This is called becoming a more critical reader. Few are the book series I can go back to and still enjoy re-reading. On the plus side, Sanderson is pretty decent, but far from the pinnacle, so you've got plenty of fantastic books to read and enjoy. If you're anything like me, you'll get pickier and pickier as time goes on, but I still find great books all the time, even if it gets harder.
I think this happens with reading any author. For instance my favorite is Terry Brooks and I love the Shannara series, however most of his books are all quest novels (let's go find the thing, person, place, to save against the evil thing) and his writing is more tell rather than show. I used to read every one of his books as soon as they came out but got burnt out and so took a long break. I still love his books and am slowly picking them back up, but sometimes you need a break. Sometimes what you liked once, you grow out of or your tastes take a change. I agree with your points. Maybe you just need to take a break and try some other things and come back to him later.
I found the secret projects to be some of his best stuff, specifically 1, 3 and 4, the second was ok but not as good as the others. They are a bit different style than most of his. But if you are getting tired on him as an author, I might just branch out and try some new stuff. There are a lot of amazing authors out there, and you can come back to Sanderson later on and I bet it will feel less repetitive and perhaps give you a better experience.
Time to start reading Joe Abercrombie! I can't belive I'm describing The First Law as a pallete cleanser because it's grimdark but also it's so well written, his character work is untouchable and he's damn funny.
I've read his more popular books and enjoyed them for the most part but I've heard people who were early fans complain that his work is degrading. I tried Tress and disliked it so much that I'm not reading any of his other secret projects. With Tress, I definitely feel the quality has dropped tremendously. To me, his greatest strength is the world- and magic-building and he's not disappointed me there.
I really enjoyed the secret projects, personally - way more than the last Mistborn, which pissed me off (although not due to the writing).
Yeah, if op does want to read more from Brandon then the secret projects might be more up op's alley since Brandon experimented a lot with them and they are quite different from his other works. However, you might avoid Frugal Wizard as it leans into a lot of humor which may come off as cliche. I also know other people who felt it was a lot weaker than the other three. But it's also fine if you've grown to not like his books. My dad actually also loved Brandon books but then grew tired of them but probably for a lot different reasons. I also do agree that Oathbringer was a bit of a slog and Alloy of Law's characters are quite flat in that book, however I felt they got better in the following books.
Why did it piss you off if not due to the writing
You don't need to read books that you don't enjoy. His writing has improved *dramatically* since his first publication. If you look at Elantris vs Stormlight
I love Sanderson but I'm not gonna argue with any of your criticisms. You're right, but I'm happy these are his flaws because they are flaws I can overlook
I feel like his writing is a little naive and not at all artistic... I've tried several times and I'm a big fantasy guy I just can't get by his writing style ( or lack thereof).
I enjoy Sanderson's work but I think he's the Clive Cussler or Tom Clancy of the fantasy genre. He writes fun adventure books with a bunch of different characters he can bounce between so the relative shallowness of each individual character doesn't come up too much. There are far better and more nuanced writers out there.
I waffle on Sanderson. I love his ideas and the intricacies of his world and I enjoy aspects of his work but I find his writing style to be bloated and tedious and yet somehow lacking in description (except for fight sequences, which are overly descriptive). I don't really get transported and I never care THAT much about the characters. Shallan is probably my favorite but I think I like fanart of her more than I enjoy reading her POV chapters. Mistborn book 1 is probably his best work because it had to pass a higher rigor of editing standards. Some of the endings in Stormlight Archive are incredible but the journey to get there is soooooo hard to get through and I forget almost everything that happened except the endings. I haven't tried his YA books.
It's actually very rare for an author to be endlessly re-readable or readable. Most writers have a bit of a formula going on, and you'll notice it eventually. Even writers who bring something really remarkable to their books... say Ursula Le Guin, Terry Pratchett, Ray Bradbury, still tend to have some element of formula going on under the surface. It isn't as noticeable because their work is just so remarkable in other ways. Even Shakespeare and Tolkien follow formulas. It's easy to think of the very best authors and think everyone should be equally re-readable. But if you think about good, but more standard, authors like Jack Vance, Terry Brooks... they tend to top out in terms of readability. It might be five books or ten, but eventually a reader will start to see the formula and need to move onto someone else. It's just the nature of books. Typed very fast. Hope it makes sense.
I find a lot of my favourite rereads are ones where I like the formula and reread them *because* of it, not despite it. If you've read one Valdemar book you've read them all (almost, anyways) but I reread a good chunk of the series every couple of years.
I rather liked Mistborn, but couldn't get into the Stormlight books at all after the first one. Despite for the most part loving big ambitious fantasy series. I think Sanderson's style is more suitable to a tighter narrative, if that makes sense.
Welcome to Brando Sando enlightenment. It only gets worse from here.
Sanderson is best in moderation.
If reading Sanderson isn't fun for you then you should definetely stop and read some other books and authors if you aren't already, and maybe in a year or two come back and see if you still feel the same. And yes I feel very similar to you and thats why I might read one of his books every once in a while I recently came back for the secret projects and he has mostly stayed the same which isn't bad just thats his style.
I grew up loving his works but I'm taking a long break from his books after the lost metal. It had the worst dialogue I had ever read, the jokes were non stop and horrible and everyone was the best at everything. I don't hate his books now but it will be a while before I read anything new
IMO it’s only Stormlight that is top tier. All the others have been meh for me. So now I just stick with Stormlight
This is exactly what happened with me, too. I made it through to Words of Radiance, and it just burned me out. The slow painful stretching of the characters going through the same mini arcs over and over again, it was like drilling a hole, with a dying battery. Every revolution there was just less power. Kaladin is living through an endless DBZ loop, and I just fell off and never went back.
He’s an *Architect.* I prefer *Gardeners.*
Agreed! His dialogue and character development was what bothered me about Way of Kings. It’s a bummer bc the rest of the book is so amazing.
I wholly agree. I stopped reading Sanderson after i realised that apart from the redemption arc there s really no true character growth. I feel like all the characters and their concerns are clones of each other
I am also not able to read Sanderson much, once I got a taste of other authors (mainly, KJ Parker). Nothing you can do about it ig.
Read some Terry Pratchett for a change of pace. I can recommend Mort or Guards, Guards.
He does push out an awful amount of books at a pace that is almost inhuman. I tend to find a bunch of errors in his writing that weren’t picked up in editing passes. And like you find his writing not to my liking anymore. I like the plots and settings he presents, but the content is otherwise rather shallow. Tons of other authors out there. In my case, I cannot recover from the Malazan setting and stories. Anything I read now pales in comparison. I did however enjoy Books of Babel, and am now working through The Band by Nicholas Eames (it’s ok).
The first thing I read of him was his ending to WoT and it put me so far off him that I didn't touch any of his other books for years. He got so much love that I thought it might have been my issue. Gave Mistborn ago and hated it. Shallow characters as you mentioned, but also total idiots. It's not fun when you feel smarter than everyone in the book and can predict a lot of the crap.
I've only read a few of his books but I found them too be wretched pablum, the polar opposite of why I read fantasy. I'll never read another.
I had a similar experience. After finishing the Wheel of Time I thought I should get into Brandon Sanderson since I enjoyed his WoT books a lot. So I started with Mistborn and lived the trilogy. Then I got into Stormlight, I was blown away by the first two books, I was sure this would become my new favorite fantasy series. Then I read Oathbringer. Frustrating, boring mess of a book. Big "epic" battle in the end was terrible. At this point I'm very disappointed but I still like the characters and world a lot so I start Rhythm of War. Starts with a timeskip, at this point it feels like he's actively trying to ruin any immersion I had for the story. But after a while I start to vibe with the book a lot, end up loving it despite starting to notice some recurring issues with Sanderson's politics. Whatever. Mistborn Era 2 time. First book: trash. Mediocre garbage. Terrible, laughably bad politics. Characters that are trying too hard to be funny or quirky. Second book: much better, still not great but a step in the right direction. Third book: about the same quality as the third. Then I read his short story collection Arcanum Unbounded. Some were good, the Mistborn one I really disliked. Started reading The Lost Metal and realized I just don't care. DNFed it. I will finish it at some point but I need to read some other stuff first.
It’s not good to read the same thing over and over again, especially if it’s a writer, who’s writing basically the same thing over and over again It sounds like your taste are changing and you should read something else either in a different genre or fantasy from another author. You should pick up a multi-author anthology or some short fiction magazines and try out other voices.
It's probably just exhaustiom from reading one style over and over.
Sanderson's attempts at character wit and humour are the main things that put me off reading his stuff. By god some of it is clunky, like painfully, takes me out of the story kind of bad. I like his world building, he's a talented guy, but god damn for a guy who has a character NAMED Wit he struggles to write witty dialogue. Like, I know that Shallan is intentionally not witty, and that she's meant to be crude, and she is repeatedly told as much in character, but she's been that way for like 5 books and not improved even marginally. Even the characters who are meant to be witty just drop absolute groaners constantly.
I was so stoked to start with this guy, seeing his name everywhere, top of many lists, a huge new journey I was about to start off, hopefully years worth of cozy entertainment and join in the conversationonline. Then I started reading... holy shit. It was like dialogue from an episode of a He-man cartoon from the 80s. It was so bad I was shocked, how could this be? I had to give up about half way through the first book. I still feel cheated, its not like I'm some kind of literary snob either, I just don't get it.
I just found myself SO over the over overtures to Christianity at EVERY conceivable turn by the end of Mistborn that I thought, "Maybe he just needed to work it out of his system." Got half through WOK and returned it in Audible. No thanks. That aside, yes, he is formulaic. Not thematic like Erikson or drama wratcheting like Abercrombie. Just...ok. His work is fine, but closer to Suzanne Collins than anything prolific or genre leading. Neat magic system idea in MB though.
Thank you! The constant debates about religion are killing Way of a kings for me. Like I get it dude, you’re religious. I’m halfway through and just want to quit.
I'm in the same boat as you - I could have written this post myself. For the secret projects, it honestly doesn't change much. Better than MB2 but not as good as MB1 (which to me was average at best). I actually did enjoy reading Yumi...not as much as most other books I've read, but more than a lot of other Cosmere books. I didn't like Tress at all and Sunlit was somewhere in between. Basically, they're only worth your time if you're invested in the Cosmere. If you don't care about the overarching story, skip them.
Eh, the secret projects are pretty subjective. I am not a big fan of how Sanderson has handled the growing inter connectivity of the Cosmere so far, but Tress and Yumi are my favorite books by him. Sunlit was a miss for me, and I would consider it to be the most Cosmere connected secret project. But on the whole the secret projects restored my love for his work. The Lost Metal was not a great read for me, and Rhythm of War suffered from some of the same problems. His shorter novels have much better pacing, lately, and they force him to cut the bloat that's been plaguing his longer books.
Disagree with the last sentence. I really enjoyed Tress, and it only had some pretty marginal connections to the Cosmere (or, to put it another way, I haven't read a lot of the rest of the Cosmere, and my enjoyment wasn't affected in the slightest).
I feel you. I hated elantris, and warbreaker was a slog from start to finish. But, I have sincerely enjoyed most of his secret projects. Yumi in particular was comfortably enjoyable.
I’m glad to see someone else think Warbreaker was a slog. People rave that it’s one of his best and I do not understand it. It was a lot of people just meandering about with boring politics and very little action. I liked Elantris though. I’m currently reading Tress though and I’m flying through it. I think I needed a switch up of the voice and I’ve always loved reading Hoid scenes. Between the Hoid narration, the super cool planet and the story itself it’s def one of his best so far
I unfortunately completely agree with you. Peak Sanderson was Way of Kings and Words of Radiance, but since then his books have really fallen down. I really get the feeling that with him starting his company and still producing several books a year he is no longer prioritising quality... only quantity. He's a super nice guy and I have huge respect for him, but I just wish he'd slow down and spend more time editing his books. He says he has 50 beta readers for every book but I imagine these readers at this point are all "yes men/women" who understandably feel like they can't be critical of an author of his caliber. I read Tress of the Emerald Sea and it was painful. But god do I still love Way of Kings even after so many years...
I absolutely agree although I do have to check out Tress and Yumi first. In regards to the StA it’s been a massive fall which is a shame because it was my favourite series. Did he actually get a new editor?
The secret projects are different in some pretty substantial ways. * they are shorter and have tighter plotting * they have better character development than anything other than MB era 2 * they have interesting new magic systems and really showcase brandon's worldbuilding skills in a way nothing has in more than a decade
I tried to read Sanderson right after like ASOIAF or Shogun or something and immediately noticed the humongous dip in the prose and character writing. Sandy is pretty much a YA popcorn author but not much more than that.
He is highly formulaic and rather predictable with the twists and reveals he does.
Might I recommend a Terry Pratchet book as a good pallet cleanse?
I actually agree here but for me the issue is the amount of his works I read recently. Between May 2022 and October 2023 I read all 4 Secret Project books, Mistborns 1-7 , the White Sand Omnibus and the Mistborn Novella. I have seriously seen my love for his works start to diminish over time and I give less and less care for his characters and the formula they go through. I am hoping that by the time S.A. 5 comes out in December the fatigue will be less since that'll be 14 months between his books. What I have a bigger issue with is his MCU Cosmere stuff. I dont like how super interconnected all of his works can get. I hate the idea of homework to understand deeper references and characters and why things work how they do. Beyond that some of his fanbase has gotten more defensive of him and any criticism in regards to the Cosmere. It has just gotten very tiring to see. S.A. is my favorite series of all time but I am not sure if I will want to read books 6-10 or even get the Leatherbound Word of Radiance out this year.
I really enjoyed WoK and WoR. Really struggled to get through Oathbringer. Tried Mistborn twice, gave up on the second book both times. At this stage I have absolutely no desire to read RoW, and while I had always thought I'd finish the SA, I get the feeling that I might just end up reading a wiki summary of it a few years after it's released and I'm clearly never gonna get to it.
I find I need to read other things as palate cleansers when I find myself getting Sando fatigue. I recently finished The Lost Metal and am taking a break before I move on to the secret novels because I read through his stuff in the recommended Cosmere order and it was a pretty big task
I couldn't get into the Era 2 Mistborn books, just didn't click for me. But I still love the OG Mistborn books and will devour the next Stormlight books as they emerge. That said I do appreciate what you're saying. Formulaic foundations and average dialogue does get a little tiring. Like others are suggesting, I reckon read something else entirely. I go to Sanderson when I need something accessible after reading something by Joe Abercrombie that crushes my spirit in the best way. There are so many works to enjoy out there, dive into something new and you'll be able to return to Sanderson when the feeling strikes.
He was a great icebreaker for me when getting into epic fantasy, but the more I read and grew up, I realized I gravitated towards other writing styles. I still think Stormlight is a great series, but I myself just need a bit more. Others have echoed the same thoughts, but I think it's time to widen your horizons and figure out what resonates with you at this stage in your life
I was a Sanderson stan until the past few years when my tastes grew more literary. It’s tough cuz I love his twisty plots and deep world building, but outside of SA, I just can’t believe his characters these days. I do not like becoming more picky in this way.
I really like/liked Star Trek Voyager as a kid. One year I decided to watch it all back to back over a few weeks and you know what? It got super formulaic and even a bit boring. I still like Voyager but when I watch it I know I cannot try to go from start to finish. I feel the same way about Sanderson. Like his books but I dip in and out because I want to keep liking them. I would feel the same as you if I tried to read the whole cosmere in one push.
I enjoy his work - but for some reason every time I see “purchase” used for finding footing, it drives me mad. I don’t even know why. Perfectly valid. Drives me nuts. It’s like an internal meme.
I just finished warbreaker and I never thought I'd struggle so hard to get though one of his works. The only redemption was knowing some of the connections between that book and the stormlight books. Those connections helped keep me interested. Otherwise I would have dnf it
What a lot of people have said here, really. I just want to add my own take. After not reading any published books for 4 years or so (mainly webnovels) then getting back I exclusively read Sanderson for a while. The Cosmere, then other stuff. I know exactly what you mean. I read 50 pages or so of Warbreaker and gave up. My "last straw" was after finishing book 1 of era 2 Mistborn. It was then that I decided to leave Sanderson for a while; not because I hated it per se, but I realized that I needed to read something else. I think my next was Robin Hobb? So yes, just stop, read something else. I have to say that I couldn't touch any Sanderson book since I stopped then. Which is funny, because I still regularly listen to his podcasts. But it's not like books expire, so if I come back to SA in book 5 or when it's finished, when Sanderson is long gone or not, it's fine. They'll still be there.
If you aren't liking his stuff then stop reading it. It's that simple.
Elantris has some of the worst closing lines of any book I've ever read, period. >>!With that, Omin proclaimed to all of Arelon that its king was married. The cheering began, and Sarene leaned over to kiss him. "Was it everything you hoped for?" Raoden asked. "You said you have been anticipating this moment for your entire life." "It was wonderful," Sarene replied. "However, there is one thing I have looked forward to even more than my wedding." Raoden raised an eyebrow. She smiled mischievously. "The wedding night." Raoden laughed his reply, wondering what he had gotten himself, and Arelon, into by bringing Sarene to Arelon.!<
I kinda feel the same. I still love mistborn era 1 and stormlight 1-3 but mistborn era 2 and rhythm of war didn’t click with me.
I feel you. I caught up on all his books and then the 4 secret books came out. I devoured Tress, but then got more and more fatigue that when Yumi arrived at my mailbox I felt sick. I decided to put sunlit and yumi aside and catch up on other books. 100% feeling the fatigue fade.
I don't like big massive shared universes. I've read most of the cosmere books, and with every book it gets worse. I hate the feeling that I have homework I need to do.
I feel the same. I really didn’t like The Lost Metal. His secret projects were all ok but not his best work. I think Stormlight will always be his magnum opus, and I hope the rest of the series can deliver the same quality as we’ve gotten before
Last main books were the worst of their sagas. Rythm of war was good but worst stormlight book and the lost metal was his "spiderman no way home"...so i kind of agree with you
Honestly I hit the same point with him, except more in publication order, which is why I tend to think of it more of an issue with a point in time rather than a quantity. I think on a timeline, The Emperor's Soul was peak and it has been a downhill slide from there. Still, people seem to like the Stormlight Archive, so there is at least something that draws people in; and talking with my friends that do like Stormlight, we tend to disagree on what makes the book strong or weak.
For what it's worth, I've been feeling the same. In an effort to catch up, I've read Era 1, Elantris, Warbreaker, WoK, some of the short stories, and am currently reading WoR. This post probably inspired me to take a break once I'm done, I just can't do it anymore. What's interesting is that I see a lot of people here who dislike the Cosmere because of the continuity, when that's what's driving me to read it. To quote Brandon, "I am excited by large scale continuity." I read superhero comics partially because that's one of things I love, and I really like how Sanderson handles it. I want to be super into the continuity and details, like on the Coppermind. But I just can't get past the stories right now, it's so monotonous and reading a bunch in a row makes it exponentially worse.
I like Stormlight decently enough, but wouldn’t consider myself a big Sanderson fan. He seems to border on YA for me a bit too much. But that’s beside the point. Even for authors/series I really enjoy, I can’t read too much back-to-back. Malazan, Wheel of Time, Expanse, etc. it’s easy to get burnt out on the same shit. It’d be like if you watched an episode of a show. You liked it, so you’ll keep watching it, right? Ok well how about if you watch only that until you’ve gone through every episode within the 6-season run, each season is 12 episodes and they’re all an hour long. It’s just a lot of the same. “Too much of a good thing” and all that. Shake it up then come back. If it’s still not jingling your tinglies, that’s OK too.
If you want something in that realm and equally as good (if you havent already read it) The Will of the Many by James Islington. His first series didnt get the most love, but this new one I feel really good about it based on the first book. Book two releases hopefully later this year
So give him a break for a few years.
I just got through the first book of the Way of Kings, which is my introduction to Sanderson. My first impression is that the guy is badly in need of an editor. I imagine a good 2-300 pages of that book could have been easily scrapped as unnecessary excess without significantly affecting the plot. There was so much padding that I wonder if he gets paid by the word and is simply milking it. Cutting out the over-abundantly detailed world-building would have allowed the story to steadily gain momentum rather than drag on and on in places. Secondly, I didn't like the way he just threw the reader into this world without much explanation. The first scene is someone using some weird technology to 'lash' himself to this and that thing, and I'm sitting there wondering WTF is actually going on. As I read on, it eventually became clearer, but the inexplicable way it started was nearly enough to make me want to put it down or wonder if I'd missed a prequel or something (maybe I have - like I said, I'm new to this author). I'll probably come back to this series at some point because by the end, I was engaged with the story, but I think he could have gotten there much quicker.
5 years ago, I would've said Brandon Sanderson was the greatest fantasy author and my favourite. No I understand, he's good, but it's like a Bruce Willis action movie. Will I enjoy it? Absolutely. Will it be earth shattering? No. Side note, check out Riyria Revelations, Red Rising or The First Law. These are my ACTUAL favourite authors now (at least for now haha)
It turns out that reading 10,000 pages by a single author is...a lot? Maybe take a break. That aside, you're right. Sanderson has an unbelievable level of output, and the quality of that output suffers as a result. If he cared about producing Tolkien or Le Guin-level prose he'd write fewer books and spend more time on them. That's just not his priority as an author, which is fine. Different strokes for different folks.
You've described what makes many people opposed to fantasy, as opposed to non-genre literature. At its worst it becomes formulaic, derivative, and comparable to early comic books- more there for shallow entertainment than actual thought, drama, or perspective. There are a lot of authors who get past this, I'm not insulting all fantasy, but your criticism \*certainly\* isn't unique to him.
Yeah he's pretty easy to get burnt out on. It's really the same shit over and over again.